Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse with special guest KQ Watson | Zombie Book Club Ep 109 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey Zombesties, a little content warning here
before you dive into thisepisode.
We are talking about wheelchairseating for the apocalypse with
KQ Watson, the author of theshort story, and it includes
some really importantdiscussions about autonomy and
dignity in life and death, therepresentation of disabled
people in apocalypse stories andsome very fun dark crystal side
quests, among other greatconversations.

(00:21):
However, we also talk veryopenly about the choice to end
your life in a zombie apocalypseand the right to die with
dignity, with medical support ifyou have a terminal illness
here in the United States and inCanada.
So this conversation includessome very dark and topical humor
and some stuff that could justbe not what you need right now

(00:41):
and if that's the case, fullyendorse you skipping this one.
I would say, if you need topick me up, I would go all the
way back to the a hundred dollarAmazon challenge.
You're what episode?
That is Seven, something likethat.
It's way back there so if youwant something like retro and
fun and that you need to pick meup, listen to that.
Don't listen to this.

(01:02):
But if you're here to have areal conversation with us sort
of virtually although pleasesend us DMs if you want to share
your thoughts about death inthe apocalypse, this is the
episode for you.
And if you are someone who isin need of support right now in
Canada, you can call or text 988, which is their suicide crisis

(01:23):
helpline, which, conveniently,in the United States is the same
number, 988.
You can text or call, and Ijust learned that in the United
Kingdom, you can call 111, alsoavailable 24 hours a day.
We know we have listeners allover the world, and Dan even
tried to look up the suicidehotline for Korea, because we
have somebody from South Korea,at least one person listening to

(01:45):
us pretty regularly, butunfortunately the language
barrier defeated that effort.
So if you are somebodyelsewhere who is struggling,
please find someone you trust totalk to and look and see if
there are other supports for you, because we want you here.
And with that, let's jump intothe show.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Welcome to Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book is a suicide note.
I'm Dan, and when Leah and Iaren't planning our end-of-life
suicide pact, I'm only partlyjoking.
This morning, Leah woke up andtold me about a place that will
bury us in the ground without acasket au naturel.
That's how I woke up thismorning.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, I'm actively saving up for our spots.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
We're saving up for our funerals.
That's the state of the worldright now, but I'm not doing
those things.
I'm writing a book about azombie outbreak and the choices
people make in life, death andeverything in between, which
makes it sound way morethought-provoking than I think
it probably is right now.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
It'll get there, yeah , which makes it sound way more
thought-provoking than I thinkit probably is right now.
It'll get there, yeah, and I'mLeah, and today we are talking
with KQ Watson, the author ofthe zombie apocalypse short
story that will subvert all ofyour expectations Wheelchair
Seating for the Apocalypse.
Kq is the cyborg you don't takehome to meet your parents.
She looks innocuous and gentle,but there are oodles of satanic
death metal songs continuallyplaying in her head.

(03:27):
I'll be asking you about thosemomentarily.
Sometimes, when she's all alone, she thinks back to some of her
favorite episodes ofIntervention and the best scenes
from the People Under theStairs.
She writes because what else isshe going to do?
Let's be real here.
One-legged Canadian who likesthe Dark Crystal more than she
will ever like you.
Oh shucks, okay, q.
Uh, the characters in her headkeep her sane.

(03:49):
Welcome.
So much to the show.
We're really, really thrilledto have you here uh, thank you
how are you doing today?

Speaker 3 (03:55):
uh, I'm good.
Um, personally, I want to beplastinated when I die.
Uh, do you know what that is?
No, please tell us um, have youever seen those?
Uh body works.
Yes, things.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
That's what that is.
Can you explain it forlisteners, in case they haven't
seen it before?

Speaker 3 (04:12):
and so basically, so, uh, body works are um, I want
the word is not coming to me Iwant to say displays, but that's
not it um, they're, they'rejust um.
Oh, I'm so bad at this exhibit.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
It's an exhibit.
Is that the yes exhibit?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
that's the word I was looking for.
Thank you, I'm a writer.
Um, there are exhibits that umare dead bodies that are
preserved in like some likeplasticky stuff, for so you can
see how the body works and howit's all put together, and

(04:50):
there's brains and like skinpeeled back to reveal the muscle
and stuff.
But there's like somecontroversies with it, so I
would like to do it ethically.
So you would volunteer yourbody.
I would probably do that,although I feel like, uh, you
could probably get more out ofwhatever I am.

(05:10):
Um for like science, ratherthan just a display, an exhibit,
um, that's gonna be the word ofthe day now um but uh, also I
would not mind being crematedand put in an hourglass oh,
that's

Speaker 1 (05:28):
a great idea yeah, I that is you could control time
would it be weird to ask my momif I can put her in an hourglass
because she wants to becremated?

Speaker 2 (05:38):
yeah, I.
I think this is a reasonablequestion to ask these are
important questions.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
We avoid dinner.
You know we're eating dinner.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
We're like you, gotta think about you.
Gotta think about the futureyou do, it's inevitable um, I've
I've heard of those types ofdisplays.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Uh, somebody, somebody told me about one that
was in korea where, um, likethey had all these bodies and
there's various things, likethey had animals and humans and
yeah, they had drawers and youcould they had animals and
humans.
Yeah, they had drawers and youcould pull the drawers out and
see cross-sections of people.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, when I went, there was one that was
just the nervous system.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh I've seen pictures of that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's wild.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
I don't want some people seeing my insides though
it is, I am uncomfortableknowing I have insides, which is
probably why I've never gone tothat exhibit, but I've seen it.
I don't want to be judged likethat.
I've seen it online, you don'twant to be judged.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
I don't want people looking at my liver and being
like look at this liver.

Speaker 3 (06:39):
We're all beautiful on the inside.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Oh, that's.
That's the quote of thisepisode.
That would be a great zombiebook actually.
Yeah, like with the gore, Idon't know.
There's something there, kq,you could work with it.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, we have some rapid fire questions, just the
first thing that comes to thetop of your head, just to kind
of get uh things going.
Um, all right, uh, so if youcould only watch one of the
following for the rest of yournatural life, this isn't an

(07:15):
apocalypse scenario, right uh?

Speaker 1 (07:17):
as long as you got to be alive as long as you got to
be alive.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Uh, which one are you going to pick, because you
mentioned a few that you were,that you were into intervention
the people under the stairs, thelast of us, or the dark crystal
?

Speaker 3 (07:34):
oh, uh, well, I really do like the dark crystal,
um, but the thing is, withintervention, there's dozens of
episodes, well, more than dozens.
There's like so many seasons, adozen, dozen, a dozen, dozen,
um, oh, but they are only 45minutes each.
Oh, wait, no, sometimes they'relonger.
Um, I think I probably have togo with the dark crystal because

(07:58):
it's just like, um, it's, it'sjust, it's been a constant and I
, I love it.
I have a small collection oflike dark crystal art books and
and comics and stuff.
It's, it's like my thing, it'sone of my, one of the things
that I just love.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
So I think it's a worthy thing to love.
I don't love dark crystal morethan anybody else, but I do
think it's a great movie.
I'm assuming you're talkingabout the movie.
How do you feel about thespinoff series?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I liked the series.
I liked it.
I was pleasantly surprised.
My favorite character was notin the series and that made me
sad.
He is Skeksi, one of thevillains, and he has he's
missing an eye and he has a clawfor a hand.

(08:46):
So, being an amputee, I like Ijust resonate with him.
He's like he's my guy but hewasn't in it.
They mentioned him once but hewasn't in it.
So I was like nine stars, not10 stars, nine stars.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah, lose one for losing one of your favorite
characters.
Is there anything zombiecharacters?
Is there anything zombie?
Is there anything zombieadjacent in the dark crystal?
I'm trying to think yeah, inthe series yes, I haven't
watched the series.
Tell us, tell us about thezombies in the dark spoilers,
spoilers.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
But uh, there is a character who's new to the
series uh, I'm not gonna namenames because I want to limit
the spoilers.
I want to let you watch it but,um, he dies and he is brought
back through like sketchy magicand sort of, and it's really
twisted and weird and, um,enjoyable.

(09:39):
Uh, I, there was probablysomething else, but I can't
think of it right now.
Um, I would say that's kind ofzombie-ish.
If you've seen it, you knowwhat I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah, it's zombieadjacent, zombie adjacent.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
You're giving me an excuse to watch it because
nowadays, with this podcast, allwe watch and read.
That's actually a lie.
Because I'm watching bigbrother right now, which is
absolute junk food.
Anyways, give me an excuse topush it higher on the list
because it's been there for awhile yeah, my current junk food
is 90 day fiance oh my we couldtalk about that, this whole

(10:18):
episode.
I know that this isn't the 90day fiance episode, but I yes, I
love that show so much.
Welcome welcome to the 90 dayfiance episode.
But I, yes, I love that show,so much welcome.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Welcome to the 90 day , fiance club.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
There's gotta be a way.
I only just started.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
I only started like two seasons ago, I guess, and
I'm not watching this season, um, but I did watch uh last season
.
Okay, uh, I started with uh Ican't even remember his name the
deaf guy yes, he, he went tothe philippines, I think or
something.
And then, uh, his girlfriend'smom tragically passed.

(10:55):
That's the season I startedwatching okay, they're all good.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
I actually started from the very beginning and
worked my way up, and I think Iwatched all of the seasons up
until last year's season in likea few months.
It's kind of embarrassing, yeah, every time I was brushing my
teeth.
I'm watching 90 day fiance onmy phone, literally um, this
next question is kind of athrowback.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Uh, we haven't asked it in quite a while.
So let's say it's the zombieapocalypse.
Which do you prefer?
You get to choose.
Which do you prefer Fast orslow zombies?

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Slow Okay, why Even I could outrun them?

Speaker 2 (11:43):
That is usually the rationale.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah, but like I don't want to delve into other,
I mean I assume you guys haveread World War Z- yes, yeah,
yeah.
And like they have that wholesection about how just the slow
zombies are relentless and theyjust never stop.
So they, you know, like humans,get tired.
So it's just like this neverending force, which is also

(12:08):
scary, but slow, is just liketraditional zombie and well,
yeah, traditional zombie and Ithink it's.
I mean, like werewolves andvampires and all that stuff.
Those are fast.
So giving zombies somethingslow and something that

(12:29):
differentiates from other kindof monsters is kind of fun.
So I prefer slow.
And also, you're rotting, soyou're not going to be very fast
anyway.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Eventually you're going to decay.
One would think yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
That is the one thing that we can count on in this
world is we will eventuallydecay everyone decays that
should be a t-shirt.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Um, unless you're plastinated, that's right.
You found the opt-out buttondan wanted to upload his
consciousness into the internetand I was like, please don't it
was a long time ago.
It was a different internetwhen, we don't have kids when
we're old.
Let's just's just like have youwatched?
You've watched the Last of Us,right?

Speaker 3 (13:05):
I watched the first season and I played the first
game.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
So you know episode three, what happens there,
that's like the ideal for me inold age.
Ideal outcome, but next, next,rapid fire question.
This one is inspiredspecifically from something you
mentioned in your story.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
If, humans went extinct, what life form do you
think would rise up in our stead?
Well, according to my story,the answer is dandelions.
But if we're talking aboutthings with brains probably
roaches I'm not very well versedon like yeah, they would.

(13:51):
I, I, uh, I don't really uh,I'm not much of a scholar.
So like I could be like totallywrong, like like I guess you
could say mushrooms or you cansay anything you want.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, okay, if you're writing a story about a life
form that was rising up in thewake of humanity, what would the
life like?
What life form would you hoperose up?

Speaker 3 (14:07):
oh, um, well, okay.
So I think it would be a veryinteresting new era for crows.
Yes, yeah, yeah, why not?

Speaker 2 (14:18):
or the sloth I love these answers.
It's the era of the slothcapybaras are running wild.
I mean, there's memes right nowthat are like the era of the
sloth Cappy bearers are runningwild.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
I mean, there's memes right now that are like I'm in
my sloth era, so I think I'mgoing to be team crow on your
two options.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think crow makes moresense, like logically, but I
think that sloths deserve theirshot.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
They do.
They do They've been patientlywaiting for their opportunity
and this could deserve theirshot.
They do They've been patientlywaiting for their opportunity
and this could be theiropportunity.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
This makes me think.
A brief comic rec for you,steve Urena.
Somebody else we've interviewedhas a comic series about
monster sloths.
I forget what the series iscalled.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Right, yeah, like killer sloths.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Killer sloths, hilarious.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Highly recommend Alright all right, like that up
like, very like, uh, freddy,from um nightmare on elm street.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Versions of sloths yeah, so in that world maybe
they are taking over.
Yeah, all right.
Last last rapid fire questionif you could infect people with
your current favorite band orsong, what would it be?

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Okay, so every time I talk about my favorite music, I
feel like a snob.
So you've probably never heardof this, that's fine.
So, like you've probably neverheard of this, that's fine.
Yeah, so my favorite song everwritten is called To Tame the

(15:54):
Temporal Shrew, by a band calledRichelieu, which I describe as
if Tool did Pink Floyd.
Oh, that sounds amazing.
Yeah, also, I'm probably theironly.
Okay, adding that to theplaylist.
How do we spell that?
Probably R-I-S-H-L-O-O.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
R-I-S-H-L-O-O Okay.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
I say I'm probably their only sober fan Because
it's very psychedelic in mybrain.
I'm all for that, so thatprobably I'm also a big Will
Wood fan.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Wood fan again, probably his only sober fan, um
I love so is what you're tellingus is not just satanic death
metal, it's also likepsychedelic um, I don't know how
you.
Yeah, for sober people.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
I mean, like you don't have to be sober, I just
choose to be.
Yes, it's over optional butgetting to the death metal, um.
My favorite band in that regardis zeal and ardor, which are um
a band about, but they, they,um took the idea of if um slaves

(17:02):
, um adopted satanism instead ofchristianity hell yeah and it's
really good kq, I amincreasingly becoming a fan of
you.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I gotta say this is like excellent, rex.
Oh, thank you.
I don't know if I could everget into death metal, I'll be
honest, but the concept,perfection, yeah yeah, no, it I
it's also very melodic and stuffyou should check it out.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
You might be into it if it's melodic.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
Okay, yeah, we'll give it a try.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
A lot of times when I'm playing music, if it comes
on in the truck and Leah jumpsin the truck after me a lot of
times she's just like.
This is beating my ears todeath and I'm getting anxiety

(17:54):
and I need to listen tosomething a lot slower.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, I've been using music mostly as a coping
mechanism to calm my nerves forthe last few years, but I will
say the one time that I reallyappreciated Dan's music I think
is more in line with your tastewas on mushrooms.
Um, we went through his wholeplaylist and I was like this is
amazing.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah we're going through like viking metal and
like it was incredible a wholejourney.
Yeah, we listened to the uh, anentire album of um godspeed you
, black emperor, which is likereally oh yeah melodic and dark
and sad and like when it startedwell, like we're on mushrooms
and I'm like we should skip this.

(18:34):
It's gonna be like a fuckingjourney and leah's like no,
don't skip it okay, it was great.
It was great, highly recommendlisten to that on mushrooms.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, we're sober, but I think better on mushrooms
let's get into your.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Unfortunately, I'm uh , I'm, you know, fair.
I drank, so I'm not 100 soberyeah I.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
I drank until it stopped affecting me.
So now, now I'm bored ofdrinking and I need better drugs
.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, I think I mean, maybe just some of us out there
okay, me need a littlepsychedelic assistance, but
maybe you're already there, kq,and so it's not as necessary.
Yeah, but let's talk aboutwheelchair seating for the
apocalypse.
Okay, could you start us off bysharing a little bit about the
apocalyptic world you createdthat we find ourselves in, and
then we'll talk about the maincharacter um, I feel like it's

(19:32):
just your average apocalypse.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Um, like, I would say it's just on the outskirts of
something like dawn of the deador so like it's your traditional
zombie uprising, uh, just fromthe point of view of someone who
is on the outskirts of it.
So, um, you know, technologyhas uh stopped working um

(19:59):
recently.
Uh, like you know, the fridgeis still working, thankfully,
but like for now, but like theinfrastructures of like the
internet and communications andstuff have stopped um, but yeah,
it's.
It's no um real, um inventive,uh zombie uprising.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
I I just needed the um, you know, your tried and
true zombie apocalypse I, youknow, I appreciate that because,
like I think a lot of times,you don't really need, you don't
really need to reinvent thezombie apocalypse if, if what
you're going for is theatmosphere and the the uh

(20:44):
environmental hazard of thezombies, um yeah, like there's a
template already available ifyou want to tell your story, and
that's what I love about itsometimes it's like you just
plug your characters in and itjust works and like there, there
really are three kinds ofzombie templates.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
There's the slow, the fast and the cordyceps yeah and
uh, so yeah, I just went with.
So I guess what I'm saying islike, uh, when the cordyceps
came um, occasionally you canhave like new zombie
environments and that's alwaysfun, but you know, old, reliable

(21:23):
, slow zombies is always thereand that's always fun, but you
know, old, reliable, slowzombies is always there.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, I mean, I've always loved.
I've been a purist for thezombie form for a long time,
even though I appreciate some ofthe more creative looks at it,
and I'm here for the stories,which is what I loved about your
story.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
It's, it's very much its own story.
Yeah, so yeah, we're four weeksinto the apocalypse about when
we meet the main protagonist.
Who am I correct that theydon't.
They're not named in the story,they're not named.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
they're not named.
One review I I received uh saidthey were not clear on the
gender of the character.
She is a female, she's a woman,but it doesn't really matter.
You can pretty much superimposewhatever you want onto the main
character.
They're pretty much a cipher.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah.
So tell us about this cipherthat we can sort of step in for,
as we're reading it, what'sgoing on in their life four
weeks into the apocalypse?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
um, she who has no name is um in a wheelchair, and
she is.
She lives on her own in aapartment, um, and the zombie
apocalypse is coming, um, youknow, like a slow, creeping wave
, and she decides she wants nopart of it, and so she decides

(22:46):
to um, self-terminate um, and soshe makes a concoction, uh, of
cookies, um, with like drugsinside them, but like, um, you
know, with the purposes of oda,um, and that's her day, that's

(23:07):
what she's gonna do with therest of her life yeah, and so we
follow through her, throughalmost to the end, and then I'm
not gonna spoil what happens atthe end if folks haven't read it
yet.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
But I said, this is a short, excellent read.
Um, it's 12 pages.
You're going to zoom through itand when you get to the end,
come dm us, tell us what youthink.
Yeah, how?

Speaker 2 (23:26):
to make you feel.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
How to make you feel.
Also, is the endingmetaphorical or real?
That's what I felt, like youleft us with KQ, yeah, so I
really appreciated that sort ofsuspenseful ending, even though
one part of the ending was clearfrom the beginning what
inspired you to write this story?

Speaker 3 (23:45):
I was in a bad mood.
I was in a bad mood, and whenthat happens I tend to write
dark stuff, so I wrote that.
I don't remember specificallywhat inspired it, but I just
wrote it.

(24:05):
I don't remember how longinspired it, but I just wrote it
.
I don't remember how long ittook, not long and it exists now
.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Is this the first zombie story that you've written
?

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I believe so.
I might have dabbled withsomething, but I believe so.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I might have like dabbled with something, but I
believe so, um, a large, large,uh majority of the of the zombie
apocalypse genre.
It focuses so much on thesurvivors, like the people who
are uh who, who want to live atall costs, um, and sometimes,
like, they touch on things likeopting out and and uh and death,

(24:48):
and they show some of thosestories, usually by finding
corpses in bedrooms with pillsscattered around usually a side
quest, like yeah, a sidecharacter makes that choice,
like we don't know who thosepeople are.
But, uh, I I think, I think thatthere that there's a lot that
we're missing by not hearingthose stories.

(25:11):
And what do you think that welose by not telling the stories
of those people who decide toopt out?

Speaker 3 (25:22):
well, um, like I can think of two um that were kind
of portrayed in media which were, I mean, spoilers for the
walking dead.
Um, like the first season Ithink, of walking dead with um,
what was her name?
Beth?
And she like wanted to do itand, uh, her, that was right.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
It's been so long since I watched it yeah, well,
andrea, it was kind of like a abattle between her sister,
maggie, who was like no, bethneeds to live, lock her in a
room, keep her away from therazor blades, and then Andrea is
just like you want to do it?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
here's a knife well, didn't Andrea want to do it
herself at one point?
Yeah, and then she's the onewho's helping with the governor,
right?
Am I remembering the rightpeople?
Yeah?
Okay so it's been a while.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
She found value in making her own choice to live
Right.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Right.
But I remember like wasn'tthere like with beth and andrea
in like the first season andthey were just talking to each
other through a door and she wasbasically begging beth not to
do it.
Or am I just misremembering,which is totally possible?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
um, andrea was like you make your choice?
Uh, it was, it was season two,because that was on, uh,
herschel farm, but her sister,maggie, was very much against
the idea of her sister endingher life.
Okay, I think our societytreats suicide in this.

(26:56):
I mean, I know our societytreats suicide in this way,
where they treat it like it'snot your choice.
Um, yeah, you, you're, you're,you're, it's this wanting to die
thing is a phase and if we justget you through that, then
you'll see that really living isbetter.

(27:16):
But, um, I mean, I think whatyour story portrays so clearly
is that sometimes, uh, there's,there's, sometimes there's no
reason to suffer like that.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Right, yep, pretty much yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I have a question, if I can jump in.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, please do, my brain just restarted.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
I watched it happen in real time because we're
sitting across from each other.
When we were talking back andforth a few months ago, you did
mention that your family wastalking around the dinner table
and saying like this is what I'mgoing to do in a zombie
apocalypse.
Do you remember that right?
Yep, um, and so was that amoment that partly inspired this
story for you, that reaction um, yeah, uh, yeah, like I um had.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
Well, why do you, kind of tongue in cheek, say,
like this story is based onactual events, which is true?
A family member so some membersof my family are really into
zombie media, right?
So occasionally we will havezombie conversations, like said

(28:27):
family member just watched 28Years Later, I have not seen a
single 28 movie but he did andhe's like, yeah, it was good,
but anyway.
So we were talking aboutzombies and we were talking
about what we would do in thezombie apocalypse and, uh, my

(28:48):
answer is like shoot myself inthe head even if I don't have a
gun, you know, just likeself-terminate.
Uh, I don't want any part ofthat.
Um, like, uh it.
Um, how do I say this?
There are some things that Ijust inherently fear, and zombie
apocalypse is one of them.
Nuclear Armageddon is anotherone.

(29:10):
I'm not a fan of that either.
Yeah, yeah, I know, and youknow possible, right.
And then, like robot uprising,like AI is freaking me out now.
Yeah, it is scary.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
It sounds silly to talk about the robot uprising,
but it is literally like themost realistic apocalypse that
we're facing I don't knowclimate change you could get
into it.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
There's a lot of there's a lot of bad shit.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, yeah so so like luckily, zombies is 90, you
know fiction 90 I love this.
Yeah, 10 possibility well, yeah,but I mean, like you know,
voodoo zombies are a real thing,yeah, and bath salts people

(29:54):
eating people is a real thing.
So, yeah, but so I know othermembers of my family share my
logic, yeah, but so yes, I saidthat I didn't want to be here in

(30:19):
the case of zombies and saidfamily member was like really,
not even for like a few days,just to, like, you know, loot
and shoot.
And I was like, no, that's notmy, that's not my jam.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Well, you don't want to go?
Uh, rob people and steal shit.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
I have something I feel compelled to tell you, to
tell your family member, whichis that studies have shown that
in times of crisis, peopleactually basically just become
socialist animals and help eachother out.
That's more likely to occurthan the loot and shoot.
I'm so sorry for them.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
Yeah, yeah.
So like, like Mr Rogers said,like look for the helpers.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a good point Survival ofthe friendliest.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, I think you're kind of on to something when it
comes to that frustration thatyou have with your family,
because a lot of people love todream about like what would you
do in this scenario?
And I think a lot of timespeople are a little bit
delusional.
Yeah, you know, leah two yearsago would have said the second

(31:24):
we see a zombie, I'm out.
But now is feeling a little bitmore confident about our
abilities.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
After two solid years of studying the zombie
phenomenon and how to survive,and the fact that we have an
actual kind of bunker basementwith six very large five-gallon
containers of rice and beans,yeah, I feel more prepared.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
But I'm delusional though, because like and I and I
was thinking about this earlierafter, after, uh, reading your
story is that like your story,uh, is it makes this really good
point of like you don't.
You don't fear death, but youfear pain.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, like being ripped apart by zombies, like
the choke on them scene in whatis it?
The Living Dead?
I know it's referenced insomething else, but when the
guy's being ripped apart andhe's like floating around oh,
day of the Dead.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
I think, yeah, it's Day of the Dead, I think so.
I think I know what you'retalking about.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
I actually know it from a show called Dead Set.
What's that?
Have you ever seen that?
No, I think it's the UK.
It was a show.
Actually, you'll like this.
It's a show about a realityshow like Big Brother, but a
zombie apocalypse happens.
Yeah, I think so like if youcan find it, you would love it.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
It does sound like literally the perfect mashup.
Okay, I think they made like a.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Brazilian version of it as well, and I've seen that
out there on Netflix orsomewhere.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Okay, we'll check it out.
Dead set.
But going back to-.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
It's like from the early 2000s, so it's kind of old
but, it's really good.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Going back to my delusion.
I'm a veteran.
I'm diagnosed with PTSD mywhole life.
I feel like I've been clingingonto life by my fingernails Up
until now, which is greatbecause I am with Leah and
things are going great.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
Yay, successful podcast.
People that love you.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You know reasons to live and like reading your story
.
It's like you.
There.
There's there's the separationbetween certain people that are
like you're realistic about this.
You're like you're not going tosurvive.
It's going to be painful.
Um, I just haven't realized.
At what point do I just stopclawing my way back into life,

(33:53):
Like when I get reached the endof my life?
Am I still going to be clawingto life despite being like my
whole body is falling apart?
I'm 87 years old.
I haven't even paid off myfuneral plot where Leah is.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
I love how I die first in this scenario.
What happened to our death pact?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I didn't follow through with it because I was
clinging on to life.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
Oh my God, so you pretended you were going to go
with me In spite of everything.
Kq, this is a betrayal.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I got to pay off the plot.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I'm still working.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
At 87.
Sounds like the future betrayal.
I gotta pay off the plot.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I'm still working at 87 sounds like but.
But.
But do you really have to,because you'll be dead?
So you don't right.
Exactly that's my point.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I'm delusional, I'm like I gotta pay off that
funeral plot and you're saying Iwon't care because I'll be dead
.
But what if I do care, kq?
What if there's some part of methat knows?
I know, I know that's the trickof it, isn't it?
Well, that was what your, yourprotagonist, talks about.
Like not only that, they're,they're afraid of pain, and so
they make the choice to endtheir life.
But then they have tocontemplate, and they claim at

(34:59):
first they're not afraid of it,but they have to contemplate
that they might become a zombiewhen they die and they could
still be sentient, and that wasalso scary to them.
What does that represent foryou?
I?

Speaker 3 (35:08):
I mean, if you want to get metaphorical with it,
like you know, we don't know ifthere's a heaven.
We don't know what happensafter we die.
Uh, so, like you know, like,like what if south park is right
and mormonism is the onereligion?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
you know what I mean.
Like that, I'm okay because Iwas baptized mormon.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
I'm not mormon now I feel relief when you say I'm
agnostic so I, I'm not mormon Ijust was baptized.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
If you bat, if you baptize once and then you leave,
you're still, you're still in.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
You can be.
You can be excommunicated likeanything, I think like any other
religion, but I know that butif you dip out before they
excommunicate you, then goddoesn't know.
I'm pretty sure that I'm stillon their list.
And also they they baptize deadpeople, not literal bodies, but
metaphorically.
Oh.
So if that happened, kq, youmight be okay, because they've
gone back and baptized you post,post, post-mortem, yeah,

(36:04):
posthumously.
Yeah, both words yeah um butyeah, I think the anxiety, like
the that fear of what's gonnahappen next, is very real.
Because even as I wascontemplating the natural death
um, or not natural death, alldeath is natural.
The natural burial that wefound, where they let they
basically have like a plot offorest and they put you in the

(36:27):
ground and they have a smallmarker so they know where
somebody is and they just let itdo what it does, I'm still like
am I going to feel, is somepart of me going to be in there,
sentient, experiencing theground consuming me?

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, and you're like get off me worms, yeah, gross.
Or are you trapped in the lastas your brain starts to die?
Are you trapped in like thelast as your brain starts to die
?
Are you trapped in that lastmoment of life for the rest of
eternity?
Uh feeling, whatever you feltin the last moment um uh, yeah,
we don't know what happens.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Uh, anyone who says they do know is probably fibbing
yeah yeah, or snake oilsalesman type thing.

Speaker 2 (37:09):
Yeah, um, I'll buy some snake oil.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
I recently learned that snake oil was not
originally bad.
Oh, was it actually snake oil?
It was like yes, and then theystarted like diluting it with
other things to make it reallynot work.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Was it like the fat from a snake?

Speaker 3 (37:30):
I don't remember.
I listened to the podcast awhile ago it was.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
How dare you not be an encyclopedia available for me
right now?
Right, if you want to knowsomething about the dark crystal
.
I, I'm your girl, but um, I'mcurious if there's a
circumstance where you thinkyour character would have chosen
life amidst the zombieapocalypse, like, what
conditions would have made thatfeel viable for them?

Speaker 3 (37:54):
or would it just have been like no, I'm just, I'm not
here for this uh, possiblybeing more able-bodied, um money
, um, yeah, like, if you can uhbuy safety, like you know, a
yacht or something that they,the zombies, can't get to, um

(38:18):
and like also like good healthcare, like um, but also like uh.
So, uh, confession, uh, whichI've actually said a few times,

(38:38):
the the new dawn of the dead, uh, the one like not new um yeah
yeah, that one.
Um, I have never gotten past theintro to that movie because it
puts me out so bad.
Um, there's something about theopening to that movie, um, that

(39:00):
just it doesn't scare me, butit makes me physically ill, wow,
so I can't.
I, I can't watch it.
So like I like, how far in doyou get?
Uh, right, there's somethingabout the fear that everybody
goes through in the opening andthe scene where, uh, the
ambulance crashes yeah um, andlike being a unhealthy person.

(39:25):
Uh, I like to think I'mlevel-headed and actually trust
like big pharma.
Um, I, I don't like negativestuff about that.
So like seeing a symbol ofhealth care uh destroy something
else like really gets to me.
So I can't get into that movie.

(39:46):
I just and it's myaforementioned family members
like favorite zombie movie.
So he's always like you'venever seen it, like I can't, and
he's like it scares her.
It's like it doesn't scare me,it makes me feel gross.
There's a difference.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I mean, it gets, it gets worse.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, I imagine so, so I just I watched it.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Yeah, I mean that's it for the ambulances and
healthcare, but it's veryeffective.
There's a lot more upsettingstuff that happens in that movie
.
Yeah, like baby eating.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
That's fine, but an ambulance gets us back Baby
eating fine Ambulance bad.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
That's where we draw the line.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
We all have our own things.
Like I really hate cancerstorylines because of my own
personal family experience withthat.
Like it's not that, it's not astory that should be told.
It's just like if I see it I'mlike you know what?
Nope, yeah, lost somebody tocancer.
Don't really want to relivethat in a fictional sense, so
that'll end it for me too.
So I get it.
There's just.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
I think everybody has that individual reaction based
on their experience yeah, I Ihave a thing about like war
movies where, like the wholefocus of it is like rah-rah, go
america.
Uh, yes, has a very similareffect, where, like I, I
wouldn't even try to watchmovies like the hurt locker or,

(41:05):
uh, lone survivor, americansniper, black hawk down yeah
jarhead black.
Well, I've I watched black hawkdown before I joined the army so
I guess that's right timing andpart of me still loves that
movie for some reason, eventhough there's a lot of
questionable things in it whatabout saving private ryan?
Same.

(41:26):
I watched that before before Iwent in and, like I have, I have
fond memories of it, and alsoit's world war two, so it feels
different.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, I can see that, whereas like if you'd put my
great uncle who he they didn'tcall it PTSD back then, but he
was basically there like andmake, made him watch that that
would have been, I'm sure, verytraumatizing for him.
Yeah Right, so yeah, it allcomes back down to experience.
Another thing that I thoughtwas interesting about your

(41:53):
protagonist and, by the way, Ilike that they don't have a name
because of that self-insertthat it allows you to do yeah Is
that this also really resonatedfor me their family's far away.
I'm Canadian.
I don't know if you know that,but I live in the united states
yeah, I've been here for 15years.
I grew up in ontario, the lesscool province, because I'm
pretty sure you're at west right, I'm in bc.

(42:13):
Yeah, you're in the coolprovince.
I'm in the less cool pro, I'mfrom the less cool province.
Gonna admit it now sorry familyto hate yes, everybody hates
toronto.
I'm not from toronto, anyways.
Now you're just I'm leaninginto canadian territory jokes.
What was I saying?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Something about Canada, my family's far away.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
They're in Canada.
Most of my friends are on theinternet because I've moved a
lot, so even people who werephysically close to me at one
point are not, and I'm curioushow you feel digital connections
in this modern age both helpand hinder people who are facing
challenges like yourprotagonist.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
Well, we're talking, aren't we?
Yeah, it led people who arefacing challenges like your
protagonist.
Well, we're talking, aren't weLike?
Yeah, let us meet.
So, and also like, during duringCOVID.
Like, I am part of a writinggroup and we used to meet in
person and with my health issues, I joined the writing group to
get in the house, basically, andthen COVID happened and so we

(43:11):
started meeting on Zoom, andthat was the last time I used
Zoom, but so, like, we were ableto continue our writing group
and we still do to this dayonline, and I've moved since, so
I can still keep in contactwith them.
So in my story, I make it apoint that the internet is down,
or at least for the protagonist.

(43:32):
I don't know if it's like downfor everybody or if it's just
like her building just lostaccess to it, but she has no
internet access in the story,because I needed to um, um,
segregate her, I needed to makeher a lone creature, and I think
that infrastructures yes, likethat will go down in the case of

(44:02):
zombies or nuclear annihilationor robots.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
The robots will want to keep us connected, so they
can spy on us are they justgoing to put us in the matrix
and let them power there?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
and in the matrix you'll still have cell phones
and cool sunglasses.
Um, it's true, that's.
That's one thing that I I kindof uh thought about, as well as
the.
You know like technology is adouble-edged sword when it comes
to your social connections.
While it can connect you to agreat number of people who can

(44:39):
become your community yeah, yeah, it can it can also segregate
you from a community that canhelp you in an emergency, that
are nearby, in your building ordown the road.
And I wonder, if yourprotagonist had community within

(45:01):
the building assuming they'restill alive and had help, would
they have made a differentchoice?

Speaker 3 (45:08):
Good question?
Possibly, I don't know.
I don't think so, because I didmake a point to say that in
this environment she would nothave access to things that she
needs to survive on a dailybasis.

(45:30):
Situation, um, I don't want tospoil it for anybody, uh, but
she does have needs, um, for herhealth issues that would not be
accessible anymore.
Yeah, this situation.
So, uh, there's also thequestion of like living with

(45:51):
dignity, you know yeah what doesthat mean?
to you living with dignity uh,well, you know, like being able
to uh it's okay, you can takeyour time.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Is that?
I just dropped a big questionthat I don't know how I'd answer
?

Speaker 3 (46:11):
yeah, um, you know, like being treated like a human
and not, um, as a burden orinfantile, infantilized, or you
know um, carted around becauselike like currently I am not in
a wheelchair, but I have been ina wheelchair for health, uh

(46:32):
situations before, and likepeople do treat you different.
And then, like, people treat medifferent anyway because of my
like, outwardly I'm a veryprivate person, but outwardly
you can tell there's somethingwrong with me.
Um, and like like I don't, I, Ibet you guys don't have you
know faith healers offering toheal you through jesus you know

(46:57):
you have people doing that toyou kq.
It's happened once or twice.
Um, I think I vote Satan.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Okay, this is an example of why the internet is
great, because you and I have.
I also did a very similar thing, more of like a pagan witch
thing, when I was gettingaccosted at the door constantly
when I lived.
We lived in Georgia and therewas two little old ladies from
the church that were constantlycoming in harassing us and
finally I was like, look, I'msaved'm saved by the opposite of
who you think I am.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
In this house we worship Satan.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
And that's where the satanic death metal comes in,
because that really sells thestory.
When you open up the door andit's just like double bass drums
pounding in the apartmentbehind you and flashing strobe
lights, yeah, I mean, like Ihave.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
I have an altar on my dresser that has, like anubis
and baphomet on it.
Amazing, yeah, because that'sjust how I roll.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, there's, and you know, faith healers are a
great example of how people tryto take control of people's
autonomy and their well-being.
There's also just those peoplethat think that they know how to
fix you.
So they're like I read thisarticle where if you just drink
cranberry juice, it'll fix allyour problems.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Oh, the unsolicited health advice.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Cranberry juice is going to make me grow my leg
back.
Yes.
If you try putting olive oil,all your problems.
Oh, the unsolicited healthadvice.
This is going to make me growmy leg back, yes.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
If you try putting olive oil under your tongue.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
If you take this thing, it'll replicate the DNA
within a lizard and it's likegrowing their tail back.
It'll be fine.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Magnesium soaking, but I don't have a tail.
You'll have one after.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
This is reminding me of one of my most cherished hate
memories, um, for, like I don'tshare I guess cherishes it but
it's like one of those thingswhere I feel like it was a
really good lesson in first ofall, like who I let into my life
and also, um, how I think aboutthings like faith, healers and
stuff like that, which is likethere's a space for that.

(49:07):
If you want to do that kind ofstuff, cool.
But when, when somebody takeson the role of like I'm going to
save you or it's my job to saveyou and you're not doing a good
enough job yourself, that's abig no for me.
So, basically, a friend of minewho passed away um, I've had a
lot of cancer in my life.
It's actually a different cancerstory but a close friend of
mine died from cancer and beforehe died, um, at that point they

(49:28):
knew he only had a little bitof time left and at that point
they'd exhausted all the options.
And this guy was a hippie dippy.
Okay, he'd done all of thethings.
He was taking his turmeric withum black pepper every day, he
had all kinds of concoctions andteas and herbal things and he'd
seen different healers,whatever he had his uh, his uh,
mushroom tinctures yeah, all thestuff, and he did the

(49:50):
conventional stuff and thereality was like you're stage
four cancer, that's that's it.
Yeah, and um, I was having thisum fall equinox gathering where
we were making um husk dollsbecause that's what I do for fun
, and I invited his wife overand another friend of mine who
was into that kind of shit.

(50:11):
But unfortunately, what Ilearned about her was that she
was also into drunkenly yellingat people for not doing enough
to save their husband and thatif she just did the X, y and Z
unhinged woo-woo thing, that myvery good friend Tom would be
healed and I had to kick her outof my house and that was the
end of that friendship.
Yeah, that happens.
Yeah, yeah, roll the story.

(50:33):
Please don't give medicalunsolicited advice or assume
that you know what people havetried.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, you know, usually the best expert about
what somebody's going through isthe person going through it.
They know what they've tried.
Yeah, they know what's workedand what hasn't worked.
And if they're still trying,everything that they tried
probably hasn't worked.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
And like the main character in your story, they
have the right to make a choice,so they can also just be like I
don't want to do that I don'tneed to explain to you why I
don't want to do that.
You mentioned in our email backand forth that you are pro die
with dignity laws, which tracks.
Given the story that you told,could you tell us a little bit
about what that is for anylisteners who have maybe never

(51:14):
heard of it before?

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Well, so, since saying that, I've learned that
they're a little morecontroversial than I first, but
I ultimately still am pro.
So it's basically usually in anideal world it would be.
You know, you are in a terminalhealth situation, so like

(51:36):
cancer or something, and you gosomewhere to take some medicine
that will end your life.
Um and uh.
Unfortunately, it is seeingsome not great implementations
or the threat of that, which Idon't love like, so like people

(52:01):
are.
There have been allegedly casesof people saying that they're
being pushed to make this choicewhen they don't want to, or for
psychological reasons asopposed to cancerous ones, which
, if that's true, that is bad.

(52:23):
Let's not do that.
But everyone should have thechoice available to them to do
it should they want, but if theydon't want to, not the most
forthcoming or non-biased yeahyeah Sources.
So I don't, you know, or ithappened to like one person.

(53:01):
If it's true, let's not do that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, and like they're like this happens all
every time.
But even if it happened to one,person.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
It's usually a lesson that something about the policy
and the way it's implementedcould be improved.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
I think we're imperfect humans and where we
make up like these are laws thatwe've just made.
People made them up becausethey were trying to make good
laws and then it's not alwaysgoing to be perfect in
implementation and there's gotto be constant revision for that
reason.
So I appreciate your sharingthat that has been something
that you've read, but alsoacknowledging that it could be
from a biased source, Because Ithink the basic premise of being

(53:34):
able to make that choice is animportant one, and because of
you I went up and looked it upfor Vermont, and Vermont does
have an end of.
I didn't write down what it wascalled, but basically their
thing is individuals with aterminal disease have the option
to be prescribed a dose ofmedication to hasten the end of
life, and this often requiresthe participation of a Vermont

(53:55):
physician, and that honestlygave me relief.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
Living in Vermont, I was like, okay, because there
are certain circumstances, yeah,yeah, there's a documentary
called how to Die in Oregonwhich follows three people who
are pursuing this and uh like,for their own end of life care.
And there's another documentaryI can't remember what it's
called, but it's about um, theauthor, terry pratchett, and he

(54:21):
um, he knew he was ill so he'sinvestigating, like it, as an
option.
So, um, this was before hepassed um, and they're both very
good documentaries and they'recompassionate and I recommend
them you're full of really goodrecs.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
I need to write these ones down too.
I will.
I do want to say somethingabout the psychological piece
here, and I want to.
Before I say it, I want topreface I'm not a doctor, I'm
not an expert, um, and I want topropose that there may be
circumstances where if someoneis suffering from pretty severe
psychological illness that,regardless of all the possible

(55:00):
routes of healing they've tried,it's not going to end.
I also think that that, maybe,is a a right to make that, that
choice.
I think it's really hard toknow where that boundary is with
psychological, mental healthchallenges, but I do think that
there's got to be a way to dothat too.
And I say that from justwitnessing some people go

(55:21):
through things where I don'twant them to not be here, but I
have had the thought where I'veunderstood if they ever made
that choice, I would accept thatthat was the right choice for
them.
Yeah Well, I'm going tocompletely change the vibe of
this, just to lighten the moodfor a moment, because if you're
going to end your life, let'send it in the best possible way,

(55:43):
which this person does.
They use cookie dough and icecream.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Why did you choose that for their last meal uh, it
seemed like something they wouldhave on hand and tasty yeah,
and like also.
Uh, she manages to kind of, youknow, spoonful of sugar, right.
So, like she, she hides thepills in the cookie dough.

(56:09):
So is it a chocolate chip or isit a pill, who knows?

Speaker 1 (56:12):
don't bite into them.
Yeah, that made me laugh.
Don't bite um.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
But so, uh, yeah, uh, I have friends who have tried
to, um, you know, uh,self-terminate um by swallowing
pills and it did not work.
And, um, they end up with acertain kind of knowledge of,
like, well, I took a wholebottle and I'm still here, right

(56:42):
.
So, like you get, like this,this weird anxiety about, like,
if it's too much, if it's notenough, and stuff like that.
So I, so I think the maincharacter tried to, like, you
know, um, avoid that by just,you know, going overkill but
also hiding the amount um, whichthis sounds bad and maybe we
should all cut this because itkind of sounds like a how-to um,

(57:04):
yeah, I was just thinking thattoo.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
What I just said, which is, I felt like it should
have been ended with and ifyou're having a mental health
crisis, please go find help.
We want you to be here.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Yes, we do want you to be here.
Don't do it.
The worst thing you could do isscrew it up and end up worse
than what you're trying to getaway from.
Yeah so don't do it, there areother alternatives.
Uh, I'm not going to sugarcoatthings with.
Like you know, they're alltemporary problems no, they're

(57:35):
not yeah, but but let's try tostick around okay, yeah, find
the.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Find the things that are joyful in your life and find
the people around you who canhelp.
Um, yeah, like, who knows?

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Like tomorrow you might see your favorite movie
you've ever seen, right, yep.
Or you might see a really nicesunset, or, you know, in a few
months, I believe, a solareclipse is coming.
That'll be neat.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah, I think those are the small things that'll
keep you going.
There's been times in my lifewhere there was actually a song.
You might know the band Metricas a Canadian KQ my favorite
band, oh nice.
Probably not as cool as yourbands, but I still love Emily
Haynes and she's a song calledno Lights on the Horizon, and
that's how it felt in my lifefor a really long time and the

(58:28):
thing that kept me going was thesmall things and the people who
checked on me.
That was what made me choose tostay here and honestly,
listening to her song and cryinga lot and being like Emily
Haynes gets it.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
There are always people in the wake of a decision
like that and it's complicatedto rationalize.
I mean, you should have theright to self-terminate if you
think that's the right thing todo, especially in this situation
.
Her too like what if?

(59:13):
What if this person's uh familysurvived and then said wow, she
is alone in her apartment in awheelchair, we need to go save
her.
And now they're puttingthemselves at risk to to uh go
through some pretty bad uhzombie infested territory to try
to save this person, only tofind out when they get there
that they'd opted out.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
This is why it's important to have the zombie
apocalypse.
What would you do?
Conversations around the dinnertable.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
That's right, yes, but then the family finds that
she's done this.
And then she's that onecharacter who we never see the
story of.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, like we mentioned earlier, yeah, yeah.
You see the cookie dough, yousee the apartment, the
wheelchair and the rottingcorpse.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yep, that's the zombie apocalypse.
Yeah yeah, you mentioned thatthe protagonist is listening to
something on their MP3 player,but you don't tell us what it is
.
We know it's satanic deathmetal.
I don't know if you actuallyuse that term in the story I
said.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
it's loud and angry and Latin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah, what do you imagine they were listening to?

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I don't know, I don't know, I just sort of threw
things out there.
I tried to give the characterher own quirks while also
letting people sort of justsuperimpose what they wanted to
on it.
I wrote this before Idiscovered Zeal and Artwork, but
also I tried to, like I say MP3player.
I don't say like you knowiphone, right, yeah, like I, I
try to keep everything asgeneric as possible.
Um, so it was more universal tolike everybody.
Um so insert loud metal bandhere, basically, um, yeah, I

(01:01:07):
mean like if it were me, I wouldprobably be listening to uh, I
would probably be listening todeath clock.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Um, okay, you know death clock yeah, um, it's a
quote-unquote fictional bandfrom a cartoon uh show from uh
adultim called Metalocalypse, oh, and it's hilarious.
But also they do actually writereally amazing, like super
heavy music, their music isactually really good.

(01:01:38):
They have songs like Mermaid-er, which is about mermaid murder.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Okay, that sounds fun .

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Yeah, murder trying to come in.

Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
My personal like, like pump-up song is the gears
by okay, um so like I wouldprobably have that on repeat.
Like if I had to do um, like,like if I had to go get.
I'm such a weenie if I had togo to the doctor and get like
blood drawn.
I would like listen to thatwell, now I?

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
now I want to listen to uh thunder horse yeah,
thunder horse was.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
I feel like it was like the first song in our show
notes.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I'm gonna have to be like rex by kq watson, like
music and show recommendationswriting I'm literally live
writing this.
I don't forget, yeah, becauseI've had.
I had them all over the placein our notes here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I think you need your own podcast where you just
recommend things.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Yeah, I would only have like five things to
recommend over and over and overand over again.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Is there a podcast with a dark crystal?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
There is, I don't listen to it when I listen to it
.
See, the problem with the darkcrystal is, even with the new
show, uh, which is like fouryears, five years old now, six
years old.
It was pre-covid.
So um, uh, there's only like somuch you can talk about because
there's so much, there's, it'sso such a limited thing, like

(01:03:02):
there's books and there's comicsand stuff like that, um, but uh
, the original show or theoriginal movie is from really
early 80s.
So you can, there's only somuch you can talk about.
And then the new stuff again,it's like six years old at this
point, so it's kind of beencalmed over already.

(01:03:23):
And then there's art and thecomics and and thing and the
novels and everythingcontradicts, so it's kind of
frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
It didn't all come from one source.
No, it did not.
They got their own storiesgoing on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Yeah, Like the finale of the series.
It contradicts the movie.
So it's like what then?

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
like we never go to second season, so that's sad
because they would have put themovie better and yeah you know,
what I'm realizing is becauseyou haven't watched the 28
franchise.
I would really love your hottake on 28 years later because
you're gonna go in withoutexpectations and the biggest
problem with that movie ispeople went in with expectations
and it was very, in our littlecommunity, kq, very

(01:04:12):
controversial.
People had big feelings aboutthis most recent movie and I'd
love to know like an unbiasedland, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Yeah, maybe, maybe this Halloween I'll watch all
three of them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
There's no ambulances .

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
Well, that's good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah, but I would avoid 28 days later the first
one, because that starts in ahospital yeah, I well yeah, but
so does the walking dead, that'strue, it's the same exact thing
, they're the same right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
They start in the same exact place right, yeah, um
, yeah, I'll give a shot.
Um, also for the longest time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
For some reason, I didn't really like um killian
murphy, it's, it's with a k,like it is our one irish man
will be really grateful that youknew how to say their name
properly, because I butchered iton their interview um, I don't
know why I didn't like him.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
I just like there was something about him that like
just bugged me.
Yeah, he's growing on me now.
It's his face, it's fine, it'sfine his face is polarizing.
Yeah, that's mean that's mean.
Let's not say that it's truethough he has this face.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
But you're like like what?
Why?
Why are you looking at me likethat?

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
daniel, I don't know.
I have another friend wholiterally actively I won't name
their name, but they activelyfantasize about Killian Murphy
on the regular and tell me allabout their dreams of Killian.
So just shows you thateverybody has their different
yucks and yums out there totally.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
I mean, he was really good in Sunshine.
Sunshine's a good movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I don't know if I've watched that or not, but, unlike
you and Dan, I don't rememberthings well.
From things like I can lovesomething and then forget a good
movie.
I don't know if I've watchedthat or not, but I, but unlike
you and dan, I don't rememberthings well.
From things like I can lovesomething and then forget it.
I'll be like how I know I lovethat book, but how did it end?
Again, that's my brain, yeah,um.
So we mentioned earlier that wehave an episode that talks about
disability and representationof people with disabilities.
Uh, in the zombie apocalypse,which it the short, long don't

(01:06:07):
listen version of that episodewas not a lot.
In fact, our episodes when wedo reviews, we often talk about
representation of genders beyondcis male, whether there is
racial diversity, whetherthere's any kind of queer
diversity present or folks whohave disabilities.

(01:06:29):
And when I went back and didthe math of how many people
things we had watched actuallyhad anybody with a disability in
it, it had the lowest score ofeverything.
And I'm curious if there waslike one trope in horror that
you wish could be just throwninto the bin and die with, about
disabled characters or nothaving disabled characters, like

(01:06:51):
what would that be?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
I think this is relatively new, but or is it?
This is hard to answer becauseI don't want to step on
anybody's toes, but, like theautistic savant, like me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Dan actually is autistic, but you're not a
savant, so anyways.
Well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
I haven't watched not the most recent that's coming
out, but one of the older newPredator movies.
Has like a kid who figures outhow to hack Predator tech
because he's autistic.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
I definitely haven't seen this one that's dumb.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
Let's not do that.
That's stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Don't do that yeah, he looks at all the alien glyphs
and they're like I understandthis programming language
instantly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
Yeah, um, yeah, I think that then again, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
that might not be fair because, like, I haven't
actually watched the movie andyou shouldn't critique something
unless you've seen it, but thatwas one of the reasons I didn't
watch the movie, because thatsounds dumb yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Well, I think it can be overplayed and I do think it
fits into the trope of likesuperpower disabled people.
Yeah, like I'm disabled, butalso and I do jokingly because I
have ADHD, I do jokingly callmy hyper-focus my superpower,
because sometimes it is, but itis one of those things that's

(01:08:22):
like it's not a realisticdepiction of most disabled
people's experience that they'rewalking around or not walking
around, wheeling around, beingtransported and also have some
magical superpower yeah rightlike uh, you know most autistic
people aren't going to roll intolas vegas and be able to count
cards and win millions ofdollars.
Yeah, I mean, can you Dan?

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
I cannot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
I can't count anything.
Yeah, you could recite thebeginning of the Walking Dead
from end till finish.
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
When I pour nuggies into a tray to bake them, I look
at them and I guess how manythere are, and then I just go
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
Yeah, that's not your skill, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Totally makes sense and it's a very low number.
It's like 14.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
So I think we would be remiss not to ask you before
we finish up which I'm sad thatwe're coming to the end of our
time together but I am curious.
I know that this is just onething you've written.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
What else is out there and how can people find
your work?
I have another short novella, Iguess it's how long is it?
It's about 10,000 words, Iguess called An X of Y and Zed.
I'm Canadian, so it's Zed.
I appreciate that so much.
It's a post-apocalypse about.
I guess it's about classism.
Sure, I'm bad at themes.

(01:09:44):
I always say I'm bad at themes.
It's about some people on theoutside and there's the perfect
city on the inside and thepeople are divided by the kind
of masks they wear and the maincharacter wants to get on the
inside because someone from theinside took something that

(01:10:08):
belonged to him, uh, so he wantsit back.
Uh, it was a.
It was my covid writing.
It was my COVID writing.
It was like we all have a COVIDstory now and this one is mine,
and so I wrote it duringlockdown, although the idea was
banging around in my head beforethat, and it was a experiment

(01:10:34):
in not using dialogue, sothere's very little dialogue in
it.
And also it is inspired by themovie threats.
I haven't seen that either,which is it's a.
It's a early, early 80s, late70s, uh, movie about a nuclear

(01:10:54):
apocalypse, oh, um, which isapparently being remade, which,
uh, by the people who didadolescence.
Oh, um that, that show thatjust came out, oh, yeah
adolescence.
Yeah, I'm, I'm looking forwardto that.
That, uh should be terrifying,um, but threads is like one of
the scariest movies you willever see, because it's very,

(01:11:16):
very realistic, realistic.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
Adding to the Book Wreck or not Book Wreck, it's
the movie next to it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
I haven't heard of that but I'll never forget a
made-for-TV movie around the 80sthat was about a nuclear
apocalypse called I think it wasjust called the Day After.

Speaker 3 (01:11:31):
Yeah, the Day After that one has Steve Guttenberg, I
think, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
This that one has Steve Guttenberg, I think.
I think this is not in Dan'slexicon.
I can see his face being like Idon't know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
That's it the guy from Short Circuit.
Oh baby, but Threads is free onYouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Awesome, it's easy to find.
We could do a movie night andwatch it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
We could branch out of the zombie apocalypse genre
just for a night and watch anuclear we're gonna get canceled
, I know and then, and then, andthen you throw up and cry oh
okay, I mean, that does feelreal.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
Considering the state of our world.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
I feel like it's not a fun movie yeah, it's also like
.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Have you watched the movie civil war?
No, also, it's so real like theplot itself.
The the human plot I willpersonally feel is predictable
as fuck, but the the depictionof what a civil war in the
united states would look likeand feel like felt I was like
this is nope too real yeah, it'spretty too real.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
Yeah, the way things are going right now, it's like
oh boy yeah, this is why we buryourselves in the zombie
apocalypse world.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
So it sounds like you .
You are solidly in theapocalyptic realm of your
writing folks.
I'm sure we'll really lookforward to that.
Where can they find you on theinternet?

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
They can find me at kqwatsoncardco.
That's C-A-R-R-D.
Yes, sure, or you can find meon Blue Sky under KQ Watson
TikTok under KQ Watson.
There might be an underscore inthere somewhere.
Yeah, I also have a novel, afull-length novel, that just

(01:13:09):
came out on paperback, like twoweeks ago.
Congratulations.
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
It's self-published so it's like you know
congratulations, but like oh, welove indie authors here, you
should congratulate yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
That's a huge win okay, um, it's about a.
I don't want to use the wordangel, but it's about a fallen
angel who falls to a dystopia.
I have a brand I love it and hejust has to sort of find his
place in a broken world and ithas one of my favorite

(01:13:45):
characters that I've ever madeand he is also an amputee, and
also the main character is anamputee because he lost his way.
That's true, that sounds greatand it is dark.
It is.
I think it's funny, but youknow, taste is subjective.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Well, you have dark humor, so I do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
It does have a dead baby joke in the first second
chapter.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
I know exactly who I'm going to recommend this to.
I won't say their name, so yeah, I know somebody who will love
a dead baby joke pretty muchinstantaneously.

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Um, maybe just make the world go round?
Um, yeah, so uh, basically justsearch kiki watson and you'll
find me eventually yeah, all thelinks will be in the
description yeah, and we'll tagthem on instagram, where we post
our stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
Um, okay, I have one last, possibly controversial
question, but I promise ourfeelings won't be hurt with
whatever you say.
You said you like the darkcrystal more than anyone else.
Have we convinced you otherwise?

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
no, I thought that would be the answer.
You know when, when I read,when I read that I was like what
if?
What if she doesn't like theDark Crystal at all?

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
It's like a big burn.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
I do.
It's like how much do you likethe Dark Crystal?
Not much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
You heard it here first, the Club podcast.
Not as great as the DarkCrystal.
I actually kind of agree withthat.
It's a high bar it is, I can'tsay, that we have the production
value and lore of the darkcrystal.
No zero marionettes, noproduction value is there
anything we haven't asked you,kq, that you really want to make

(01:15:29):
sure you you share with ourlisteners today?

Speaker 3 (01:15:32):
um, I don't think so.
I'm trying to think ofsomething pithy, but nothing's
coming.
No, I don't think so.
Okay, perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Ben, can I ask?

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
you something Sure.
What are your favorite zombiemedias?

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
Oh, that's a big question.
I mean, that's our library of109 episodes now.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
See, yeah, I figured you would definitely have an
answer.
Do you have, or at least a lotto choose from?

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
are you looking for a recommendation or just a
genuine like yeah sure, the most, a wreck both okay, let's go
with rex, since I gave you a lotof recommendations well, I
really want you to watch 28years later because I think it's
fantastic.
Um.
Others don't agree with us, butboth dan and I are solidly in
the like this is.
I would give it like an eightout of 10.

(01:16:21):
So I wouldn't say it's myfavorite, but I think it's
really great.
It's worth watching.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Yeah, I think in the last couple of years, like of of
movies that I hadn't alreadywatched before we started all
this, that like I just didn'tknow they existed.
The Girl with All the Gifts Ithought it was a really great
movie.
Have you read the book?
I did, and I read the Boy onthe Bridge.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
It's just a sequel that's on my to-read.
I haven't read.
Isn't it technically a?

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
prequel it is.
Yeah, it's a seek-prequel,seek-prequel which you'll
understand when you get to theend.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Yeah, no, I've.
I've read the first book and Iwatched the movie.
I prefer the book.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Yeah, definitely I.
What I liked about the movie ishow it stuck to the the book
for the most part.
There was a few things thatwere cut out, especially towards
the end.
That kind of made it a littlebit jumpy at the end.
Yeah, but I forgave it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Yeah, and like it came out with the cordyceps
thing before the Last of Us.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
I think it was one of the first to throw cordyceps
out there in the mix.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I have a pet peeve.
I like the mushroom zombies,but I'm like that's not.
Cordyceps are great.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
Yeah, leave cordyceps out of this.
I love, cordyceps are great.
Yeah, we have cordyceps out ofthis also in the last of us.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Those aren't cordyceps growing out of some of
those zombies yeah, they'returkey tail turkey tail.
I saw some oyster mushroom likethis is inaccurate get your
mushroom straight okay, yeah,yeah, fair enough, um, but yeah,
I think, oh, there's so manygreat indie authors we've talked
to.
If you let me know, like afterthis, um, anything specifically
that like you love, we couldprobably give you a specific

(01:17:58):
recommendation.
We went to living dead weekendat the monroville mall, where
the original dawn of the deadwas filmed this summer, and we
just had a whole stack of booksand everybody's talked to us we
would give them a recommendationbased on what they like, enjoy.
So there's a lot of good zombiefiction out there.
That's been a lovely surpriseand I'm very glad that we have
added your short story to ourlist of reads and we hope that

(01:18:19):
folks have also read it or aregoing to Go check it out.
It's on Kindle, right?
Yes, and can you also?

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
purchase a physical copy?
You cannot, because it is only12 pages.
I still want it on my bookshelf, I know, but for like, sorry,
the limit, the smallest limit,wow the minimum.
The minimum is 25 pages on aebook or on a physical book put

(01:18:47):
some coloring pages in the backsee like I could like beef it up
with like excerpts from otherthings.

Speaker 2 (01:18:53):
Yeah, that feels kind of a really long author forward
or the sequel.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
Her family finds her maybe.
Hi, puppies, dogs, they're likeyou.
Should be done by now.
We're we're at the 90 minutemark.
What are you doing?
Well, it was really a pleasureto meet you, kq.
I'm not surprised, as a fellowcanadian, that we have things in
common, and thanks for doingwhat you do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:22):
And tell your dogs hi for us.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
Yes, I will.
I'm sorry about that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:27):
It's okay.
It's kind of a great ending.
I love it.
Bye puppies.

Speaker 3 (01:19:30):
Bye, KQ Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Thanks everybody for joining the Zombie Book Club for
this episode.
You can support this podcast byleaving a rating or a review.
Um, five stars, please.
Uh, you could also send us athree minute voicemail.
Uh, you could say anything youwant.
Um, you could even send us abook pitch and we could make an

(01:19:55):
elevator pitch for you or let usknow what this brought up for
you, this episode.
You can let us know anything.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
And we might read it on air.
Well not read it.
Listen to it on air.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
At 614-699-006.
Zero zero, three zeros and asix At the end of that.
You can also sign up for ournewsletter, which I don't send
out all the time, so for ournewsletter, which I don't send
out all the time, so you're notgoing to get bombarded, but I do
appreciate everybody who signsup for it.
You can also follow us onInstagram at
ZombieBookClubPodcast, or youcan join us on Discord at the

(01:20:29):
Brain Munchers Collective.
All the links are in thedescription.
You can find it all there.
You can just click on it and goto the place.
It's easy, um, but thankseverybody for listening.
The end is nigh baby, bye, bye,bye.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Don't die unless medically necessary, supported
by a doctor in which case wesupport it yes but um otherwise,
please don't die.
Please don't, unless it's anatural death.
Bye, bye.

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Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse with special guest KQ Watson | Zombie Book Club Ep 109

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Wheelchair Seating for the Apocalypse with special guest KQ Watson | Zombie Book Club Ep 109