Wizards of the Apocalypse with Special Guest Catherine Larkin | Zombie Book Club Ep 94 - Zombie Book Club

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
Welcome to the Zombie Book Club, the only book club
where the book has wizards andzombies who like to read.
Are they going to start somekind of ne, the only book club
where the book has wizards andzombies who like to read?
Are they going to start somekind of nefarious book club of
some sort?
And what would they even callthis zombie book club?
Necrotomes Guild?
I'm Dan, and when I'm notpracticing my own wizard magic,
I'm writing a book about anapocalypse that's not nearly as

(00:40):
whimsical as the one we'rediscussing today.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
And I'm Leah, and today we are chatting with
ex-zombie also known asCatherine Larkin.
Catherine is the author andillustrator of the Wizards of
the Apocalypse series.
Growing up in Washington State,she spent her free time
voraciously reading, drawing andplaying piano, and she began
writing the first book in thisseries during her junior year of
high school how badass is that?
And has three books in theseries already and is now

(01:05):
working on her fourth.
Welcome to the show, catherine.
We are so excited to have you.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
It's so good to be here.
I'm so excited.
I know it's been a long timecoming.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I feel like I found you maybe a year ago and I've
been following you ever sinceand I just love looking at your
art, especially thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
my, I really like to draw.
It's so fun.
That's another thing I wasdoing when I was young.
I would always draw.
I was very inspired by, likeanime, manga, stuff like that,
like the really expressive facesand the big eyes.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
That definitely shines through in your work.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Thanks.
So we we have some.
We have some very importantquestions to ask you, as in all
interviews.
Yes, we will be judging youbased on You'll be scored on a
rubric.
Okay, that's how a school works, right.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
The rubric changes every time and we'll be making
it up.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yes, don't worry about it, we'll be.
We'll be.
We'll be scoring on a a curve.
Okay, that's scoring on a curve.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Okay, you'll either bring up the average or bring
down the average and you won'tknow because we're not going to
tell you.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Brains will not be reported to anyone Kept a secret
until graduation, alright.
First question you have achoice here, a big choice to
make.
You get to choose whether ornot you um live in a zombie
apocalypse or you commute to a40-hour work week at a job oh my

(02:36):
gosh, I'd rather take the job,because I mean, I do commissions
, so I actually do do drawingsfor people.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
I mean it's not 40 hours, but but it's what I do
outside of writing, so I'drather do that.
I don't want to live in anapocalypse.
No, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I think it's amazing that you can make your focus
your art and your writing.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
Thank you.
Yeah, I love drawing for peopleand I'm actually going to be
drawing for a friend's book soon, so I'm excited, oh that's
great.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Is it a totally different kind of?
I'm sorry, I know we'resupposed to be in rapid fire.
I'm going to hold my questions.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
No, I think you should ask your questions, leah.
Okay, get those questions out.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I'm just curious if it's a uh, what the if you're
them to have at least one zombiedrawn by you?

Speaker 3 (03:33):
no, they can have anything, as long as it's not I
don't.
Now I do have where I can't.
I don't.
I won't draw like spicy things.
You know I don't like I'mbecause my channel is more kid
oriented.
I don't want to be drawing,nothing wrong with it, it's just
I don't want to put that on mypage yeah but other than that
I'm free range.
You can, I'll draw whatever, aslong as it's not like harmful

(03:56):
or offensive or that's good toknow.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I may be requesting zombies I got bad news.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
You didn't get that 40 hour work week like we, like
we discussed.
Instead, you are in a zombieapocalypse.
I'm sorry, that's just how ithappens, oh man, otherwise all
these questions would be totallyirrelevant sense, but anyways,
you're in the zombie apocalypse.
What is your weapon of choice?

Speaker 3 (04:22):
either an axe or a.
I used to take archery lessons.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
That's fun.
I love archery.
You can't see it, but I've gota bow right behind me.
Did you do axe throwing too?

Speaker 3 (04:34):
No, I want to though.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
What kind of bow do you have?

Speaker 3 (04:38):
I don't know the name of it, but it's just not a
hunting bow, it's literally justlike a sport bow where we would
do it.
It was like a.
It's not a hunting bow, it'sliterally just like a sport bow
where we would do it.
And it was like a gym classwhere we would shoot at targets
and things yeah, that's fun Idon't know the name though just
like a simple, like recurve Ithink so, yeah, basically, yeah,
I think those are the bestanyways, though, like the fact

(04:58):
that you can shoot any kind ofboat ahead of the curve yeah, uh
, that's.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I mean, that's something I would like to see a
lot more in zombie apocalypseshows and movies.
It's like for for a while,daryl dixon made the crossbow
really, really popular, exactly.
Just see that showing up inmovies and tv shows all over the
place and it's like, hey, um, abow is like a stick with a
string.
Why aren't people discovering?

Speaker 2 (05:24):
this technology.
It's been around for thousandsof years, um all right exactly
uh, it's, it's the zombieapocalypse.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
I'm so sorry.
Uh, you only get to eat oneunlimited shelf, stable food
item for the rest of your life,but you do get to choose.
Like it's a genie situation, Iguess.
Like you can wish for it maybe,um, and then you find like a
warehouse, uh, which would youchoose?
What's your, what's your fooditem?

Speaker 3 (05:52):
oh my gosh, probably just like canned food, I guess
soup or something.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, is there a particular flavor of soup that
you would want that you couldeat for the rest of your life?

Speaker 3 (06:00):
probably like I like potato soup, I also like um
vegetable soup yeah I alsoreally like, um, you know, meat
soup and broth and things, soyeah, we would be a good pair.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I would eat all the vegetable soup.
Yeah, dan, we eat the potatosoup.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
You might get left with the broth I like vegetable
soup too, though that's true.
Yeah, I mean you can do a lotwith that, you know if, if
you're, if you're going outforaging to supplement your
unlimited supply of vegetablesoup, like you can do a lot with
that.
You know, if, if you're, ifyou're going out foraging to
supplement your unlimited supplyof vegetable soup, like you can
throw some stuff in there Ithink you're also our first
canned soup person, which, like,is a little surprising, because
we've asked this question a lotand you're the first one people

(06:37):
say oh, peanut butter

Speaker 2 (06:39):
seems to be the refrain lately like I don't know
, we've had like four peanutbutters in a row, or like rice
or beans, yeah, um yeah, mac.
And cheese, like the likethey're just like.
We'll add water, since we won'thave anything else definitely
one person wanted beans yeahnothing but beans.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Shout out jack callahan.
Um, this is a.
This is a new question.
Uh, we're excited to startasking people this question
because I think it's great.
You find this is very similarto the last question, I'll mind
you.
You find a DVD box set and aworking DVD player powered by

(07:17):
solar.
Um, what?
What is the one show or movie,uh, that you would watch for the
rest of your life in the zombieapocalypse?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Oh my gosh, Okay.
So TV show I would watch theDragon Prince.
It is so good, it is so cuteand it's got all my favorite
things elves, dragons, magic andstuff.
So that'd be my TV show.
My movie oh my gosh, that'stough.
Maybe anything from StephenKing king.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Oh yeah, you pick anything.
There's not like one thatyou're like.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
This is the one I would pick shawshank redemption
yeah, that one's good yeah, Iwatched that movie so many times
as a kid wow I do misery or petcemetery?
Probably pet cemetery yeah,it's scary, but misery is like
disturbing that's the nice thingis it's one's more disturbing,
one's more like in your face,scary yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
And mythological, which makes me feel better.
Yeah, a little bit.
I think you passed the test,even though you'll never know
your actual score.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah, those are great answers, okay, sweet.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
You'll find out if you graduate.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Awesome.
So you have been storytellingand writing since you were a kid
yourself.
What sparked your love forstories?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Okay, so I've always loved drawing.
I would draw in school, I woulddoodle in class Hopefully my
teachers don't hear this I woulddoodle in class and I always
liked putting stories with thedrawings I made.
And actually I wanted to be aveterinarian for a long time,
you know, take care of animalsand dogs, because I've had dogs,

(08:54):
I've had cats.
And then I found out afterreading Because of Winn-Dixie
it's a really cute book and Ifound out.
I love the story so much thatit was just I could.
People can make money and makea living off of telling stories
and sharing with people andconnecting with people through

(09:14):
books and I was like, why don'tI do that?

Speaker 1 (09:17):
yeah, um, I think, yeah, I mean, being able to
follow your, your passions, islike that.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
I feel like that is the dream um what's it like to
follow your dream and like, justit's really fun it's, it's
surreal, like sometimes I feellike, is this real?

Speaker 3 (09:36):
but at the same time I there are times that it's hard
, it's like work, but at thesame time I love it.
At the end of the day, I loveit and that's.
I think what matters withdreams is there are going to be
ups and downs, are going to behard it, at the end of the day,
I love it and that's.
I think what matters withdreams is there are going to be
ups and downs, are going to behard parts, but at the end of
the day, if you really love it,then that's what matters.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's a good message for all of us out there.
I think I read that you were alibrary kid and you love the
local library.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
I love libraries.
My school had a really nicelibrary and I would hang out
there with my friends.
It was so fun.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Yeah, I felt like the library was the one place that
I wouldn't get randomly harassedby a teacher walking by being
like are you supposed to be here?
If I was in the library, Ithink they just kind of assumed
that I should be there, or atleast didn't want to question it
, because at least I was lookingat a book, didn't you hide in
the?

Speaker 2 (10:25):
library at lunchtime, at some point um, or is that me
?

Speaker 1 (10:28):
I've been known to hide a few places yeah, we were
both awkward teenagers.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's cool you had friends.
I was hiding in the corner ofthe library.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
I mean, I had a very small group of friends.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I was certainly not a popular kid so um well, I, I'm
sorry, dan, I keep interruptingyou.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
No, that's okay, you go ahead okay, then it's your
turn.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yeah, I just wanted to make the segue um that in
your series you have an actuallocation that is a library
skeletonia library and is thatan ode to your your childhood
library experiences, or why wasthat important for you?

Speaker 3 (11:04):
it is, in a way, I think it's more that I love
libraries and I I love, and ofcourse I got to draw it, so I
wanted to draw a library toothat's pretty rad.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, um, uh, what inspired you to write the
wizards of the apocalypse?
Um and uh, what?
How would you describe the, thepremise of premise of your
series as well?

Speaker 3 (11:25):
I would think I grew up loving, you know, fantasy,
Like I really enjoyed HarryPotter.
I really like all the fantasystuff.
You know, like I just mentionedDragon Prince, all the elves
and stuff like that.
But I also love horror.
You know I'm a big fan ofhorror.
I love horror movies,especially zombies.
Zombies are my favorite horrormovie, my favorite horror movie

(11:53):
subject, and I was like how comenobody combines these?
Because I never really saw oneor the other having.
I've never really seen afantasy movie having zombies and
I've never seen a zombie moviehaving fantasy where there's
magic and wizards, and I waskind of like why don't people
combine these?
I think there's magic andwizards and I was kind of like
why don't?
Why?
Why don't people combine these?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
I think there's a lot of potential.
I agree, I'd never seenanything like it when I came
across your stuff too, and thefact that you drew your stories
was like wild to me and reallyawesome.
I mean it's because it's not acomic book.
To be clear for folks listening, this is a novel series with
illustrations.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
It's got like drawings on the page for each
chapter.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
But I do want to do a graphic novel someday, someday
um, yeah, one thing that I thinkabout both the zombie
apocalypse genre and fantasy isthat they're both like this
blank template for anyone totell whatever story they want.
Um, like, if you say zombieapocalypse, it puts a picture in

(12:46):
somebody's mind and then youjust tell the story that you
want.
And also, if you say fantasy,they're like, okay, wizards and
dragons, exactly, and combiningthe two makes sense because
they're both like a blank pagefor your story.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Exactly.
And again it was kind of justone question popped in my head
why not combine the two?
And, honestly, if zombies gotmagic, we'd all be screwed.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Are we all screwed in this book series?
Is that a spoiler?
Um?

Speaker 3 (13:13):
not.
Uh, hopefully not.
Um, I'm still working on stuff.
I have a lot of crazy stuffthat goes on in book four.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
So it's going to get rough, as the world does
sometimes.
I think it's really interestingthat you chose to combine those
elements.
Were there any challenges todoing that when you first
started thinking about theconcept?

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Not necessarily challenges.
It was more like the worldbuilding, Like how did the
zombies happen?
And you'll find that outactually in book four.
I can't say right now.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
but it deviates pretty heavily from like how
zombies shows or zombieapocalypses really start, and
it's just different, it's.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
I don't think it's something people will
necessarily be expecting and I'mhoping it's like not a good
shock, like oh wow, that's'sinteresting, or I've never
thought of that.
Oh, that's really.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
That's a teaser catherine, because I love like
learning the origin stories andI think it's really smart that
you're doing it in the fourthbook, right, and people are
really hooked into the, thecharacters, yeah I mean
introducing it too early cankind of like I don't know bury
the lead.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Maybe it's like and I I do appreciate when things
like that are kept for a secretkept a secret for a really long
time yeah because it keeps youguessing when you talk about
your book.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I know you go to like a lot of events when you talk
about it.
How do you like for folks whohave not heard of wizards of the
apocalypse before?
How do you tell them what it'sabout?
What's your like couple ofsentences pitch I.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
I usually say are you interested in like a
post-apocalyptic fantasy, whichis two words you usually never
hear together, and then I kindof explained that it's like if
Harry Potter or Lord of theRings had zombies instead of
what they're usually about, likeinstead of fighting Voldemort,
what if they fought a zombiearmy or a king or you know

(15:07):
something like that.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, I mean a lot of times like Lord of the Rings,
it's kind of like an apocalypsestory.
It's just that they're liketrying to stop the apocalypse
from happening.
So this is like the apocalypsehappened.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's a lot of like.
That's what I use for my pitchmostly um it's the combined
elements.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Uh, what are your main um zombie inspirations?

Speaker 3 (15:32):
so, as for movies, I love resident evil.
I I love walking dead z nation.
I also really, really enjoyedwhat is another one Like Dawn of
the Dead.
You know, the classic.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:47):
Night of the Living Dead and, of course, books.
I love reading zombie books,like.
I just finished a book calledEden and it's about this.
It's where the world has allkind of gone in.
People are living in littlecommunities that are named after
parts in the Bible, like theGarden of Eden, and there was
another one called Jericho and Ithought that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
So, yeah, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to
check that one out.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
It's like literally, I'm like instantly writing it
down Eden new zombie book.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
Yeah, I actually have it right here.
I know you won't see it in thepodcast, but here it is.
It's this one.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
I don't know.
Yeah, I can see it.
Yep, you know, what's funny isthat I think I think I've seen
this book around.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
It's just it never, never, um, clicked in my brain I
think, yeah, were there anyspecific zombies that you're
like?
I want my zombies to be likethat, or how did you design your
zombies?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
so I kind of designed them to where I I didn't want
to just copy and paste like whatzombies usually look like,
which is fine, I have nothingwrong.
I love the classic zombie look,but I also wanted them to be
more fantasy.
So that's why they have thepointed ears, almost like an elf
, like a type of elf in a way,but not.

(16:58):
And then the green skin I kindof got from Minecraft actually.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Love that.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah, and I love minecraft, you know.
Back to gaming.
It was, I do play minecraft,but it's I don't play like I
don't.
I haven't played it in a longtime because I've been so busy,
but that's actually where I gotthe inspiration for the.
The skin tones and then theears were from fantasy elves,
and then the clothing, or their,like their appearance.
I just put them in likemedieval clothing and it's all

(17:29):
torn, it's still tattered, hasblood on it, dirty, filthy, but
it's also.
Each one has their owncharacter and some of my zombies
can wear armor, which I also,again, have not seen very often.
So I was like, why not havethem wear armor?

Speaker 2 (17:43):
yeah, I don't think.
I mean I think there's a coupleepisodes in low walking dead
where they just happen to haveon like a riot gear or something
like that, but not for it to bea common thing.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
That's really cool, yeah going back to minecraft
real quick.
I just I just wanted to saythat I started.
I started playing minecraft inlike 2011, and this was before
anybody really knew whatminecraft was.
I was like, oh, it's like alittle block game, this will be
fun.
Um, and then the sun went downand suddenly I'm like, oh,

(18:14):
what's, what's this thingwalking around?
And I'm like, oh, this isfilled with zombies.
Nobody told me there was anyzombies and that game back then
scared me so much Because Iwasn't expecting it.
It's the zombie apocalypsesurvival game that nobody really
credits as being a zombieapocalypse survival game Exactly

(18:36):
, exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
Maybe we need to do a special episode about Minecraft
zombies.
I think so, yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
You should, you should.
The new Minecraft movie justcame out and I'm really.
I want to see it.
I want to see it so bad.
I've been loving Minecraftsince I was 13 years old.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
That sounds super fun .
I've never played Minecraft,but I haven't played most things
.
I'm like I want to be in andhip with all this stuff, but I
grew up in the middle of nowherewith no television in the 90s,
so the stuff.
But I grew up in the middle ofnowhere with no television in
the 90s, so I'm behind the timeswith catching up.
And your zombies too.
Yeah, your zombies are not, uh,mindless zombies either.

(19:12):
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?

Speaker 3 (19:14):
so I wanted to.
I was, it kind of went off thesame question what if, you know,
the two elements were combinedof fantasy and horror?
And then I was like zombiesnever really talk.
It was like what if they couldcommunicate?
What if the virus didn't likefully shut down their brain?
What if they could still talk?
They could still plan things,they still functioned.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
I mean, that would be terrifying yes, a zombie that
can read, a zombie that can read, read magic.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, that's what I mean.
It's just building off of thatconcept of the what if?
What if zombies could do this,what if they could do that?
And when I wanted them to talk,it was just this is going to be
crazy.
I mean, if a zombie couldactually not only bite people,
they plan it, they can weararmor and they can actually hunt

(20:06):
.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Now I'm realizing also nobody can see me doing
this I'm voracious, voraciously,no, ferociously what's a good
adjective?
Right now, I'm vigorouslyshaking my head.
No, I don't.
I think these zombies are veryscary, but then you also this
character, zombia, um, whichreally intrigues me.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Tell us about them so she is a demi zombie.
And what a demi zombie is.
It's like it's a half zombie,so it's almost like a demi god.
They so their eyes.
I don't know if you notice thisin my art, but demi zombies
don't have red eyes.
So the like, real zombies, theregular ones, have red eyes, and
then the demi zombies, becausethey retain part of their

(20:43):
humanity.
Their eyes can be any color andthey don't hunger for flesh,
but they still have the look ofa zombie.
They're still, you know, greenand they're still rotting, but
they have humanity, so theydon't want to eat people and
they're actually can be generousand they also don't rot as fast

(21:04):
, so they, like, they, livelonger, if that makes sense yeah
that does what made you chooseto have a character that was
sort of like in between bothworlds I think I was always
inspired by greek mythologywhere they'd have a demigod,
where they're part god, and Iwas like what if there was a
zombie that was like part zombieand like half human?

Speaker 1 (21:22):
yeah, well, it's a really good idea too, because,
you know, I've, I've, I'vethought about things like this,
but I don't know if I've seen awhole lot of it, and I think
that there's a lot of stories totell with somebody who's
halfway between between being anundead monster and, you know,
not quite being human eitherExactly Well, being human either
?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Exactly.
Well, I want to hear more aboutthe characters.
So Tristan is the firstcharacter we're introduced to
Tell us about him.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
So he is the king of Skeletonia.
He's a teenager, so that'sobviously a lot of pressure, but
he is secretly a wizard.
So his parents are wizards andhe knows he's a wizard, but he
knows he can't.
He's never been able to be openabout it because the cadre, who
are basically witch hunters,are killing all the wizards.
So, but what sucks is he's aking, he's got to lead people

(22:12):
and he's obviously like thefront of everybody and he's
always seeing people.
But he has to hide the factthat he's a wizard.
And then when the zombies breakinto the library and they
reveal that there's this wholeprophecy surrounding them, he's
like oh boy, so I have to notonly be a king, I have to hide
all of this, still be king andgo save the world, kind of thing

(22:32):
.
That sounds not very fun.
And he's shy.
He's an introvert like myself,so I based him kind of off
myself in a way.
Like he's very introverted, hegets he's very shy, which is
ironic.
Like he's very introverted, hegets he's very shy, which is
ironic, because he's a king.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
but I feel like that could happen, though is it like
uh, is he a king because heinherited the kingdom, like it's
a?

Speaker 3 (22:51):
yeah, inherited.
So it's like when king tutbecame king when he was really
young, he was like nine when hebecame king or pharaoh, so kind
of yeah, he didn't have a choice, so I mean, it's not his nature
.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
But there he is now, a secret wizard king.
Oh yeah, fighting a zombie.
Apocalypse of smart zombies.
I don't want to be tristan atall.
Was he the first character thatyou came up with?

Speaker 3 (23:14):
well, he was actually one of the very first he he's
on.
Via and tibia were some of myfirst characters and it was.
I have really old drawings ofthem on one of my old laptops.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Sorry, there's a train going on in the background
that's okay, we can't hear it,but I'm sure it's distracting
for you yeah, but anyway they.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
I have really old drawings on my computer of just
when I started developing thesecharacters and their old outfits
, their old designs, and I wouldlove to show them someday.
I just have to find them.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
That'd be really amazing to find them.
Hopefully you'll be able to.
Does your computer still work?
Have you opened it up recently?
The old one?

Speaker 3 (23:52):
I have.
I just got to make sure thefiles the files are still there
and I can still find them.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Since you, you you're illustrating your own books and
also writing them at the sametime.
Which comes first?
Do you draw it first or do youwrite it first?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
I write it first, but sometimes when I create
characters, I draw them first.
So I do a character designwhere I plan out their outfit,
their hair, their look, and thenI write them.
But when I write the storyitself, it's usually I write
that first and then I draw whatI wrote.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
so it's it's like, in between, are you picturing them
as you're writing them?
So is there already an image inyour mind?
And then it's like you'reyou're translating that onto
paper too.
Yep, that's really cool.
What's it like to actually beable to?
You know what this is?
Maybe a silly question, but I'mtrying to.
Not a lot of people can be anauthor and an illustrator at the
same time, and yeah, I'm justwondering what it's like to be

(24:50):
so multi-talented, sheesh,basically thanks I.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
I mean I've seen other author illustrators out
there, like the.
I heard that the author of thehow to train your dragon series.
She drew all her own drawings,which are super cute, and I've
always loved seeing people thatcould put their own drawings in
their books.
And it's definitely a balance,because after I write the book I
still have to edit it.
But then I have to do all thedrawings and I actually burned

(25:17):
out last year and that was whenI got sick, so I had to take
like a whole week off of drawingand writing because I got sick.
So that's fun, but itdefinitely is hard sometimes
because I have to do all thework and that like the drawing.
I mean I have a formatter thatdoes my layouts and everything,
but like the actual drawingsthemselves, that's all me.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Does it ever feel lonely when you're trying to
figure out something, or do youhave people you can talk to
about it?

Speaker 3 (25:49):
I have people, I can talk to about it.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
I have people I can talk to about it like fellow
writers or like my friends inreal life and stuff like that.
So, um, are there times whenyou should be writing but
instead, uh, you're, you'redrawing, because you just kind
of go down a rabbit hole.
I'm asking for a friend.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Yes, yes, I do.
I do that a lot.
I will go down a rabbit holedrawing, looking at art on
Pinterest.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yep, that's really adding a lot of potential
distractions to the writingprocess that I could not afford.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
I was going to say that, but you do do this now,
actually because Dan does 3Danimation art.
Oh, that's amazing.
Since he's been off in thewinter, the goal was for you to
write every morning andsometimes I'd be working on the
couch beside him.
I work from home.
I'm very lucky, and I willoften start my day on the couch
before I move into my office andI'll look over and I'm like
that's not a work document, Dan,that is your 3D animation app.

(26:47):
And I'm like is that what yousaid you'd be doing right now?
But I feel like, ultimately, aslong as you're following what
is calling to you right now, howdo you pull back from that and
say, okay, no, now I have towrite?

Speaker 3 (27:01):
I exit out of my document and go to my writing
document.
Good for you, that's someself-control.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Yeah, I have to to pry yourself away from the hyper
focus.
I uh, I.
I salute you um it's not easy,but I I have to force myself so
if you had to choose onecharacter from your book series
to be your sidekick in a zombieapocalypse, who are you going to
pick?

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Oh boy, I would pick Tibia because she's the tough
one and she's got a crossbowlike Daryl.
Is she a little Daryl inspired?
But there's a catch.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yes, but she heard there's a catch Her crossbow
reloads by itself.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Oh well, that's good.
Sometimes Daryl's crossbow alsoreloads by itself, Even though
it's not supposed to.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
These are things that I can't.
I never knew Like I justenjoyed the Walking Dead
blithely, catherine until I gottogether with Dan and we
rewatched it together and he'slike that's not how a crossbow
works.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I'm like don't ruin it for me.
I don't know any different.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I ruin everything.
So we've talked about Tibia, wetalked about Zambia and a
little bit Tristan.
I feel like we have to talkabout Malice for folks to get a
sense of the full scope of thisstory.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Okay, so she is a demon and a shadow blood which
is just like a really superpowerful demon.
And that is a demon and ashadow blood which is just like
a really super powerful demonand what I.
That actually will tie in tohow the zombie apocalypse
started.
But I'm not going to give itaway, I just want it to be a
surprise but she is indeed theone you're torturing us.

(28:39):
I'm not telling us the don'ttell us, but I want to know,
that's all I'm saying you haveto wait till 26, and she's the
one giving them magic Don't tellus, but I want to know.
That's all I'm saying.
You have to wait until 26.
2026.
And she's the one giving themmagic and training them and
making them stronger, givingthem armor and leading them.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
So yeah, not good.
Yeah, the leader of the zombies, if you will.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
What's her motive?
Why is she so upset about whatshe's so mad about?

Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's revenge.
She wants revenge on thewizards, because you'll see more
about this in book four, butshe's on a quest for revenge,
basically she's.
Then she's very vindictivebecause she felt she was wrong.
It's almost like Maleficent,where she felt she was wronged
and she it makes her evil.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Is there anything redeemable about Malice Like?
Do you find yourself feelingsympathy for her sometimes when
you're writing her character?

Speaker 3 (29:32):
in a way and this is another thing you'll find out,
they'll actually find this outin the prequel I'm working on.
I'm working on a prequel andyou'll find out that her
intentions before were actuallypure.
She really just.
The reason she got into darkmagic was because she was trying
to help somebody.
But it took over her soul, soit was kind of a price she paid

(29:55):
and it went wrong.
So I guess that's redeemable ina way where it's like her
origins were sad, but then, likeafter that, her as a current
villain there is no redeemingquality yeah I find those ones
really fascinating.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Where you like learn about the, the backstory, and it
makes you have some sense ofthat they were I mean, I don't
want to, can't really sayhumanity in this case some sense
of their.
They weren't always bad.
But then you have to grapplewith the fact that, well, now
they are and like that means wehave to do things, you have to
make choices that we wouldn'tmake, uh, if we were not
fighting an evil entity with azombie army behind them.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, um, what's your , what's your favorite part
about building, doing the like?
The world building ofskeletonia is there like a
specific part, that like justwhere it all stemmed from, and
you just can't, can't, can't,let go of it.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
I really like the world building.
I like is the different howit's inspired by medieval
fantasy.
So there are medieval times,but I also read a lot of
medieval fantasy where there'scastles.
I really enjoyed building thecastle and the army that he has,
and then, of course, with thedragon tribes, all the different
elf tribes, that was a lot offun.

(31:08):
But I think with Skeletonia itwas mostly how I based it off of
medieval, like literally amedieval period and it's, you
know, he lives in this bigcastle, he has the guards and he
has a medieval village, youknow, like a town, almost like
medieval england, almost in away yeah, yeah, I really
appreciated when I was lookingat your website that you have
the map, too, of skeletonia andyou can actually go through and

(31:29):
like folks.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
If you haven't read yet and you want to get a little
bit more sense of the storyline, you can go and click on the
different locations and get tomeet the characters that way and
see them drawn.
It's a really nice introductionto your series, but you've got
to tell us what dragons whoseside are they on?

Speaker 3 (31:44):
yes, the dragons, they are on the good side.
Yay, evil, they're not evil,they're not evil um question, uh
, can the dragons be zombified?

Speaker 2 (31:56):
no, not yet there's a lot of ominous foreshadowing
happening in this episode.
I'm here for it heck yeah whatabout the elf tribe?
Or?

Speaker 3 (32:11):
tribes, so the different elves, so the
different elf tribes there's.
I have four.
I have the fire elves, whichare also called the dragon
bloods, I have the ice elves andthen I have moon elves and then
I have underworld elves.
So there's four tribes andthey're all against the zombies,
of course.
But the thing is is elves can'tbe zombified.

(32:32):
Because of their magic systemsand their magical antibodies,
they can't be infected.
So a little scientific thingthere for you.
Their antibodies are waystronger than ours and they
can't get the virus, but they douse the dragons to keep the
zombies off of their territory.
But you'll find out in bookthree.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
I don't know if you've read it yet, but I've not
the zombies do try to maketheir way onto the island not
okay, but of course they'regoing to right.
They've got to get that revenge.
Um, I'm also really fascinatedby the choice of uh tristan,
having this, the skill, thisability as a wizard and having
to hide it.
Was that a metaphor for you inany way?

Speaker 3 (33:15):
In a way, I think it's.
You know, I was bullied a lotas a kid, so I was always had to
hide my true feelings and hidewho I was.
So I think that's what I see inhim is I wanted to have a
character that felt like theyalways had eyes on them, and he
does as a ruler.
But it's yeah, in a way, yeah,it's a metaphor of like, just at

(33:36):
the end of my book seriesyou'll find out that hiding
yourself and just it doesn't doany good.
Be yourself.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
Because, at the end of the day, the people that will
love you will love you.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
And you will love you and the people that don't don't
, and that's.
That's the truth, unfortunately.
Did this book help you or thisis not?
This book, did this series get,help you come to that
revelation, or was there like amoment in your life where you're
like this is I'm not going tohide anymore, I'm going to just
be myself, unapologetically?

Speaker 3 (34:01):
I think the series helped a lot because I got I
like writing makes me feel sofree.
I can just do whatever I wantor have the characters do
whatever I want and just bethemselves, which is something I
did not get to do in my highschool years because of all the
bullying.
But yeah, it was like an escapereally, or a release yeah, and

(34:22):
you started writing your firstbook in high school.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
So like like were you even aware that this thing that
you were writing into your bookwas this truth that you needed
to learn about yourself as well?

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I didn't.
It was originally supposed tobe just a fun fantasy story, but
then, as I wrote it, I gotolder and I graduated.
I finally started making itmore metaphorical.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
I'm really sorry you went through that, catherine,
just to be just to say that andI know a lot of people listening
may have had their ownexperiences or may have been on
the other side, of being a bully, and I think it's a really
important reminder about how, ashumans, we need to do a better
job of just accepting people forwho they are.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
We really do.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Yeah, and I'm glad that you have a series that
people can read, that they cansee themselves in that way.
I just wish you didn't have tocome out of something where you
are harmed in the way that youwere.
But I think it's kind ofmagical actually that you were
able to try to use a less bigword than transmute, shift it,
change it, make it into thestory.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, definitely I.
I heard a quote I think it'sfrom Ash Costello, who's one of
my favorite singers.
She's from a band New Year'sDay and she said something about
turning your pain into power,and that's what I chose to do is
bad things happen to people.
It's very unfortunate, but it'sup.

(35:44):
But we can and I'm not excusingbulliesies, I'm not saying
they're off the hook but at thesame time, we can take back our
own power and use it to rebuildourselves.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
I guess yeah, I can feel that in my guts.
That's like really that's avery powerful statement,
catherine yeah, like just turnyour pain into power.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
You know this might be a little off topic, but
thinking about like beingbullied in high school and just
you know the endless tormentthat would come.
One of the things that I hatedmost and it came from like every
teacher that I had, every adultin my life was these are the
best times of your life.

(36:24):
I hated hearing that andbecoming an adult I realized
they were absolutely wrong.
They couldn't be more wrong.
My, my life got so much betterafter getting out of high school
because I was among adults who,who didn't just relentlessly

(36:45):
try to destroy each other withwords.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Exactly, I hated my teenage years.
I hated them.
I had, like I say, I had asmall group of friends, but
other than that, I absolutelyhated being a teenager.
It sucked.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
What advice would you give to teenagers now that are
in that sucking part?

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I would say it won't last forever.
There is light at the end ofthe tunnel.
You will make it out and againto find if you can find a
support group like friends,family, just if you can have a
solid support group.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I mean, that's how I got out.
Yeah, it sounds like you haveyour own tribe.
That you're hanging out with inthe library.
How did you find them?

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Just in class and stuff we would hang out and my
friends love to read and we dohomework together and things and
we have lunch and all that andare you still in touch with them
now?

Speaker 2 (37:34):
I am.
That's really cool um for me.
I'm just also on a slightsidebar here.
I also hated high school and,um, I had a few friends that I
really that really helped methrough some very dark times
personally, but it wasn't untiluniversity that I found people
that like I could really relatewith.
All of elementary school andhigh school was like trying to

(37:56):
fit into a specific box, andthose boxes do not.
I don't fit in them.
It's very uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
So I totally get that .

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, I think a lot of us have that experience in
that age range, just because ifyou don't easily fit the world
and the kids around you and someof the adults who are telling
these kids that you can only bea certain way can be so cruel
that I think it's really coolthat you're writing these books
for like 8 to 13 years old.
I was curious about thatdecision to write a young, young

(38:24):
kid to young adult fiction teenfiction.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Yeah, I definitely wanted kids to have a story.
They can not only just enjoy,but they could also learn
something from it and not feelalone.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
What do you have to take into consideration when
you're writing for for eight to13 year olds?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Other than not go overboard with the gore.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah, Where's the?

Speaker 3 (38:45):
what's the cutoff?
Cutoff?
Well, there's no swearing, likeDan said, and I'm very careful
with the gore.
I mean, gore does not bother me.
I watch horror movies, butsometimes I have my editors or
my fellow writer friends.
They'll tell me like okay, thismight be a little gory, you
might want to tone this down.
So I do.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
Is there like a specific quantifiable amount of
gore, like that you could likemeasure in gallons?

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Maybe that's inappropriate for an eight year
old.
Maybe like I guess I've had Imean I've written bloody noses
I've had people get pretty bigcuts, but obviously I don't go
with like skin trails spillingout for people being cut in half
don't go with like skin trailsspilling out or people being cut
in half, or I mean I've haddecapitations, but not like
where you see the blood spurtingout of the neck, you know.

(39:35):
So I guess that's the best wayof explaining it.
It's not like people can getcuts.
People can get bloody noses,people can get bitten, of course
, but it's not like you're gonnasee someone like a whole thing
of entrails or you know.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I've never been a fan of gore personally, Like I've
come to just sort of accept itand sometimes appreciate it
Cause there is an art to it inzombie media.
But it strikes me that youactually could also have an
adult audience.
And I'm just because there arepeople out there who like, love
the idea of it, but also can'thandle gore.
My mom is one of them.
Like she cannot the the junglebook upset her too much.

(40:13):
Just to give you context.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
So I feel like this would be like borderline for her
, but I can imagine a lot ofadults love your books too.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
What's like what kinds of?

Speaker 2 (40:23):
people come up to you .

Speaker 3 (40:24):
I've had both adults, teens, kids.
You know, and I think I know, Imarket my books as like middle
grade or young adult, but that'smainly because you know there
is no swearing, there's nosexual activity and there's no,
the blood is very toned down but, honestly, anyone can read them
.
I've had older people read them, I've had young people read

(40:47):
them.
It's so I like I say when I,when I say they're just for like
young adult or middle grade,that's just like the content
more the content, but anyone canread them.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
That's really awesome .
I think that age ranges arejust a guide, cause I really
find that.

Speaker 3 (41:01):
I like a lot of young adult fiction.
Me too, I do, I love it.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Yeah, what's it like to have someone come up to you
and say I read your book and Iloved it.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
It makes me again.
I feel surreal.
It feels like for a minute Ihave to process it, like did
they really just say that?
Like that's so cool, and then Ithank them and all that, but it
still feels surreal, like it'scool.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I mean, I love it and I'm really appreciative cool.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I mean I love it and I'm really appreciative and I'm
really really grateful whenpeople do cause.
It means a lot and I reallylove my readers and I want them
to always feel safe and be happyand that's really sweet.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, as as your, as your series progresses, your,
your characters, I imagine atleast are getting older.
Do you think that if, if itcontinues on long enough, that
the uh, the focus age group willalso increase?

Speaker 3 (41:55):
um, in a way sort of, but it's still gonna be that
like no swearing, no um, lowgore, no spice kind of thing.
But they like maturity, wiseand understanding.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
They will grow I think you can have a great story
without any of those things,definitely.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
I'm not against you know those kinds of things.
It's just it's not stuff Iprefer to write.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, well, and also, like like you mentioned, leah,
there's definitely a group ofpeople that you know they would
love to experience these stories, but sometimes it can just be
too much, whether it's like the,the content of it is just too
dark or it's it's upsettingbecause there's so much gore and
violence that, like this, thiscould, this could be easily be

(42:42):
like an approachable point where, like I think, I think this is
a niche that needs to be filled,because a lot of times when you
think of the zombie apocalypse,if you're getting into it, you
might think the expectation isto go over the top and just
describe some of the most brutaland disgusting things that you

(43:02):
can imagine.
But there's a group of peoplethat definitely want to have
these stories but don't want tobe assaulted by it.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, I am not as far gone as my mom, but I am one of
those people Like I don't likegratuitous gore and I like that
your stories are focused on thecharacters and the world, and
zombies are a part of that world, but it's not just like we're
gonna.
You know, although it would bekind of fun to draw that
something really gross.
I've been lately gotten intokatherine.

(43:33):
I had no idea.
I also am an artist.
Um, oh, that's amazing.
And I never drew gore beforeuntil we started the design book
club, and now I really lovedoing it, but it makes me laugh
while I'm doing it because itfeels so ridiculous Making this
really gross eye right now.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
That's so cool.
You're an artist.
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Thanks, I mean, I'm not, it's like the thing I do
because I love it and I thinkagain, that's why I admire you
for having that self-knowledgein high school and then just
going for it.
If I could go back in time andtell I don't know 15 year old
Leah that it would be possibleto do something as cool as what
you're doing as a young adult, Ithink that, um, that version of

(44:15):
me might've gone for it.
So, it's really inspiring.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Yeah, definitely.
All the the adults in my lifewere not encouraging me to
follow my dreams and aspirations, it never would have occurred
to me that I could be a writerbecause I'm like, no, I'm bad at
school, I get bad grades, Ican't write.
And for you to be able to seethat at such a young age, I'm

(44:40):
very envious, because I couldonly imagine the things I would
have done if nobody was tellingme no, you have to find a
practical job and just go therefor the rest of your life until
you die.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
I realize we're making an assumption, though we
don't like.
Did you feel supported as ayoung, as a teenager, to follow
your dreams?

Speaker 3 (44:59):
I did.
I definitely my.
My family supported me.
It was more um, my fellowclassmates didn't support me and
I even had someone like tell methat it wouldn't be worth
pursuing writing because Iwouldn't do well at it or I
wouldn't make any money and itwasn't worth that's a common
thread right now, especiallyamong indie writers, is like the

(45:19):
.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
the expectation is, you know, you might, you might
make like five dollars a month,um, but there's also a lot of
people that they, they, theyactually do succeed, and I don't
think those stories are toldnearly enough, especially to
younger people.
Not at all, cause really youreally have to follow your
dreams, because if if you're notfollowing your dreams, I don't

(45:40):
feel like it's it's worth it tojust go through the motions of
life.
You know like I, I go to a jobbecause it finances my dreams.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
same exactly, and you're doing great with that.
Yeah, thank you so nice.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Um, I'm curious what the challenges were along the
way of.
Like you know you.
Thankfully, you had supportfrom adult figures in your life,
but you were also surrounded bysome not so great people who
were being jerks, if I may say,probably a nice word for how
they were treating you.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
How did you keep pushing through that and
continuing to decide to writethis story and explore it and
draw, even with that in thebackdrop, yeah, I like I say I
would come home and I would justdraw kind of escape my own into
my own little world and work onmy stories.
But as I got older I also I doa lot of meditation, I do

(46:32):
journaling, where I just likeI've used to write about my
feelings in a way like not kindof like a diary, but now I just
journal.
And I also do a lot of shadowwork where I like reflect on
myself and kind of just who do Iwant to be?
And other people are like kindof telling myself that other

(46:53):
people can have opinions andthey can have opinions about you
.
But that doesn't mean they'retrue.
That doesn't mean you have tofall into that box.
They want to put you in.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, I feel that I went to like three different
high schools and the second onewas the worst.
The first one I was starting tomake a little bit of headway,
then left went to a reallyterrible one.
Then the third one.
I think I had that samerealization where I was like I
need to focus on who I want tobe like the people here will see

(47:26):
me however I choose to presentmyself, so I'm going to work on
thinking about who it is I wantthem to see when they look at me
.
Um, I don't know if I did agood job, but it was a
revelation.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
yeah, I'm sure you did great I think that that's
like one way to do things, butsometimes, um, that's not an
option.
Yeah, you know, like, um,because of your identity, like
where you're from, what yourrace is, what your gender is, um
, your sexuality, like thesethings can be.
You can't just like figure out.

(48:01):
You can say, well, this is whatI want to be, but the thing you
want to be is not going to bepalatable.
Yeah to the average person and Ithink that it's really
extraordinary to keep focusingon the thing that you loved
amidst that kind of pushback,and I feel like a lot of adults,
including myself, are stillworking on that.
Yeah, like the wisdom that youjust shared, I think it's really

(48:21):
important to remember for us,too, that it's okay.
People don't like you also,it's just their perception of
you and yeah, it doesn't mean,it's true.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Yeah I imagine that this probably uh shifted a
little bit over the years sinceyou started.
But where are you?
Are you a plotter or are you apantser?

Speaker 3 (48:36):
I am both, so I mostly I can plot like the big
storyline, but pantsing comeswhen I'm actually just writing
the story.
The dialogue's all pants.
It's all like off the top of myhead what I can come up with at
the time.
I mean, of course I go back andedit and change if I need, but
I plot the story but everythingelse is just comes out of my

(48:56):
brain.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Chaotic neutral.
I yeah same, you know, I think.
I think most of us try to plotum and then the, then the uh.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
The universe of our book laughs at us and tells us
otherwise have you ever reallysurprised yourself and been like
, oh okay, we're going here now.
I did not plan that?
Yep, so we've talked a littlebit about the?
Um then, the latest book you'reworking on right now is the
shadow bloods revenge, right?
Yes, and I think the lastupdate I saw was that you had

(49:29):
40,000 words written already.
Where are you at now?

Speaker 3 (49:32):
I'm at 51,000 words and in hoping it's probably
going to be close to a hundredthousand, I'm not sure yet.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Insert applause here to have 51,000.
Thousand, I'm not sure yet.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Insert applause here to have 51 000 applause.
Oh my gosh, it's gonna be.
It's gonna be a lot, becausethere's a lot that goes on in
this book a lot of worldbuilding, a lot of character
development.
So it's a lot that's going tobe going on and it's um again
asking for a friend.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Um, when, when, when you write a hundred thousand
words, how many words do youthink you delete?

Speaker 3 (50:03):
hmm, a good portion of them, definitely.
Maybe half, sometimes Notprobably not half, but a good
portion like a quarter of them.
Yeah, just like filler words orsentences that could be clipped
or scenes that maybe go on toolong.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Does that make you feel better?
Dan, A little.
I feel like I've written mybook six times and just kept.
That's okay.
It is because it's much betternow.
But no, I mean my friend didthat, because I'm asking for my
friend.
Dan, cut out the part where Isaid it was me All right.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
No, it's important to be vulnerable.
We're modeling vulnerabilityright now, Dan.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Do you ever get stuck when you're writing like hit
roadblocks?
Writer's block.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
Yep, I do.
That's when I draw.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
That's a good thing to be able to shift to, because
I imagine that really frees up alot of ideas while you're doing
that.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
It does.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Yeah, does the writer's block contribute to
burnout in any way, like whenyou're trying to, or or are they
like connected in any way?

Speaker 3 (51:06):
because I do wonder about that having to sit down
and like work on something everyday sometimes, yeah, I can
definitely contribute to thewriter's block and sometimes, if
I really really need a breakfrom both, I go read or I go
outside or I go hang out withfriends or something to like
really, really step back isthere ever a time where you're
like you know what I think I'mdone, I really need to do

(51:26):
something different yes,sometimes I, I sometimes just I
need to step back and I justthat's when I go read, or I
there was one time I took like aweek off of drawing and writing
because I was so burned out yousay a week, like it's a long
time, and I'm like I went yearswithout drawing.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
I think it's amazing Like it is a long time.
It sounds like for you.
You sound like you're somebodywho's drawing every day, a lot
of the day.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
I do yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
So a week is a good time for you to take, but I
think that there's I'veexperienced, just like seasons
of things Sometimes I'm making alot of art, sometimes I'm
making none.
So again, like to take a weeksounds very healthy as like a
little break for yourself, andyou definitely deserve that with
how prolific you are in such ashort amount of time.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
Yeah, the longest I've gone without drawing was
probably a month, and that wasbecause I was in Europe, so
that's a good excuse.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
You were busy doing other fun things.
Did Europe help inspire any ofthe castles?

Speaker 3 (52:25):
oh, totally so.
Like I say, I don't know ifyou've read book three, but
there is the out.
The one of the elf tribes themoon elf tribe is based off of
ancient rome and I was in romefor a few days on this trip and
I loved looking at I mean,they're castles, but they're
like the Coliseum and the Forumand the amphitheaters and stuff.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
There's nothing better for inspiration than
actually going to places likethat.
I remember going to Wales oh Idon't know.
It was like 2010.
It's a long time ago Nice andseeing castles for the first
time and I was like blown.
I mean, I'd seen a castlebecause I grew up in Canada,

(53:09):
just as an aside and in Torontothere's this place called Casa
Loma, but it's more like atourist place.
It was a rich person who builta castle like structure, but
it's only like 100 years old orsomething like that.
And to go to Wales and seeancient ruins was really
striking and also humbling torealize how long people have
been around and all the wildthings they've done.
Is there something about themedieval period that you find
really compelling?

Speaker 3 (53:30):
um, probably the castles and the knights and
everything.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
I really like that would you choose to live in the
medieval times?

Speaker 3 (53:37):
no, so no zombie apocalypse?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
horribly yeah well, it's true, you don't want the
plague, no yeah, but I mean no,no, I'm no.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
They treated women horribly.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
No, thank you that era is really fascinating,
though, and it's like, it'sdefinitely like a a very
specific period of time where,like, large stone castles were,
like the, the forefront of, likeof of military defense, and all
it took was a few innovationsto make them completely, um,

(54:13):
inadequate for what they, forwhat they did, so, like it died
out fast.
Um.
So, like, if you see, if, ifyou're looking at a castle, you
definitely think of that periodand you're thinking of all the
how, how different that time iscompared to where we live now
yeah, but then when you're in afantasy world like you've
created.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
It's like fantasy is set in that time but at the same
time the rules are completelydifferent.
Like how are women treated inskeletonia?

Speaker 3 (54:39):
oh, they're treated like eagles, totally I there are
women knights there are, youknow, totally like yeah, they're
treated equally.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Yeah, I think that's a.
I think sometimes people getstuck in this thing of like.
If I'm writing about, even ifit's fantasy, but it's in the
medieval time that it has to belike, quote unquote, true to the
time and what do you?
Think about that.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
It doesn't have to.
I don't think so.
I mean, women were treatedhorribly and I obviously didn't
want to write about that.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
So yeah you say obviously, but like it sounds
like there was something underthere that was really important
to you.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
I don't like the way women have been treated.
I'm really I grew up in aCatholic church where women were
not treated well and it was thetypical like oh, oh, you have
no bodily autonomy, you're not,you're just there to be a wife
and have babies and raisechildren.

(55:32):
And I'm like, I'm against that,I don't like that.
I mean, I'm fine, totally okayif you want to be a mom and have
children, but it should not.
Again, it's a box.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Don't shove people into that box yeah, and that
sounds like maybe why you have atibia character, for example.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
I do I'm, I'm very yeah, I'm very voiced about a
lot of things, but mostly whenit comes to like feminism and
everything, I'm very, very I canbe, I can get pretty voiced
about it um for a good reason.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, there's a lot of legitimate reason for that.
I think we might have talkedwith this a little bit, but just
checking with you, I know thatthe book you're working on right
now I read on your Instagramthat it is a book that will
resonate with anyone who hasfelt like giving up and I'm
curious why is that an importanttheme to you?
Is it calling back to thebullying?
Are there other things thatyou're trying to share?

Speaker 3 (56:27):
It's both.
It's a lot.
I mean, there are times I feltlike giving up and there are
times I've felt like there wasno way out.
But I want.
But there is there always is away out.
You know you can always there'shelp available.
There's always going to bepeople that want to help you and
that's what that's about is.
It's going to be a time forthose characters to be like they
feel like they want to give up,but you, you have the strength.

(56:48):
You don't have to.
You can always like find helpand there's always again,
there's always gonna be helpavailable and you don't have to
do stuff alone yeah, is theresomeone in particular that um
helped you, that you think aboutwhen you think about this?
like my, the story itself orlike someone in real life.
Someone in real life, I wouldsay my best friend.

(57:09):
She's helped me a lot, you know, she really supported me and,
of course, my dad's reallyhelped me out a lot, you know,
just being supportive andshowing me that again, there's
always help available and Idon't have to be alone.
So that's that's great, yeah,and for anyone's that again,
there's always help availableand I don't have to be alone.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
So that's, that's great, yeah, and for anyone's
listening out there, if, if youare feeling alone right now, um,
maybe reach out.
You might be surprised by whocould be willing to help you.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yeah, exactly, I think you bring up a good point
that there's there's alwayspeople that want to help.
I think it's also true thatthey don't necessarily know that
you need their help unless youask for it.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
You have to.
I mean, it's not easy to say Iget that it's definitely hard to
admit you want help, but it'savailable.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
Why do you think it's hard for people to admit it?

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Because it's vulnerability, You're putting
yourself out there and admittinghey, I can't do this alone I
think our society also treats itlike a moral failing that you
are.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
You can't be the rugged individual that they,
they say you should be like,admitting that you need exactly
help from somewhere else yeah,and we're human.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
We can't.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
We're not meant to be alone thank you, this is one of
the things that I could also bevery voiced about, as you say.
This is one of the things thatI could also be very voiced
about, as you say, is that Ithink our society is so
individualistic and humanity asa species was never meant to
live like that.
We need each other.
Is that a theme of your booktoo?

Speaker 3 (58:35):
It is Togetherness, camaraderie, friendship.
It is very important because,especially in a zombie
apocalypse and there's fewpeople left, you want to have
that, you want to have a goodproof yeah, um, do you have any
advice for young writers andartists who, uh, dream of
creating, creating their ownstories?

(58:57):
definitely.
Just don't give up.
You'll find just right, like,even if your story is not
perfect, even if you have torewrite it, that is okay.
I've had to rewrite my story alot, so don't feel alone and you
will find your people and justyeah, just keep writing, don't
give up, because there is alwaysgoing to be someone out there
who will read your story.
Yeah, and we can always usemore books in the world, or more

(59:20):
movies or more TV shows.
You know, yeah, use more booksin the world, or more movies or
more tv shows.
You know yeah, so just do it.
There will be an audience.
And if you can't even find agood support group, yeah, and
everybody starts somewhere, solike exactly.
You don't have to be famous tostart.
Just start, that's what matters.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
It's better to start than to not yeah, and like,
especially for young people, Ifeel like, um, you know, a lot
of times, though, a lot ofpeople will say, well, I, I
don't know, I don't know how todo, do that, I'm not very good
at that um, and especially, ifyou're young like you've got.
You've got a lot of time and ifyou, if you start right, then
you might become great you canlearn.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
Yeah, that's every.
I learned every, everythingthat I taught, but I did for my
book, you know, I taught myself,I researched it, I asked fellow
authors.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Was it scary to publish a book the first time?

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
In a way, yes, it was scary.
I was mostly nervous Like, ohmy gosh, I hope people like it
and I get that.
If it's not for everybody, thatis fine.
With every book there are a lotof popular books I don't like,
but I think what helps isknowing that there are going to
be people that like it.
You will always find someoneout there that will enjoy it.
So yes, it was scary, but astime went on I started to

(01:00:34):
realize that it was just youknow what people that like it
will like it, and if they havepeople that don't, they don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
that's fine yeah, you're our second uh person that
we've talked to recently.
That I'm like okay,motivational speaker.
We've been joking about having,like a zombie creators retreat.
Like okay, booking katherinefor motivation that'd be so fun.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
That would be so fun.
Oh my gosh, if you guysactually do that, let me know,
okay, it might happen.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
It might happen because I think it would be very
, I was thinking like just adultsummer camp for zombie lovers.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Yeah, that'd be so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Oh my gosh, we should yeah uh, how does meditation
help you with writing anddrawing?

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
just the clear headspace calming.
Sometimes I meditate onspecific things I need, like
self-love or gratitude or justbeing calm, just being quiet for
like five to ten minutes I feelso old saying this.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I don't know how old you are and you don't need to
tell me, but I know that I'veI've been alive longer and I
feel like how amazing would itbe to have started meditating
earlier in my life, like I do itnow, and it's helped me a lot,
and I think I just hear a lot ofwisdom from you and the way
that you see the world and theway that you think about your

(01:01:48):
work.
That I have a feeling issomething to do with meditation
and the fact that you've chosento be so intentional with your
life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
No, it's definitely taken practice, though, and you
know it's never too late tostart.
I wish I had done meditationand journaling when I was in
high school.
I think that would have helpeda lot, and I'm very I am now.
I consider myself veryspiritual like not religious,
but spiritual, like you know,the whole crystals and all that
and it's very calming to me andit's very helpful because it

(01:02:18):
helps me step back and be atpeace when, if something's
chaotic.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I was wondering when I read the the grimoire right
like that was something that Ilearned about when I started
exploring um paganism andwitchcraft and things like that,
and I thought it was reallycool that you incorporated that
into your story.
I did?

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
I did because I've my dad is irish, so I've read a
lot about Celtic backgrounds andpaganism and stuff and I don't
consider myself a pagan but I amdefinitely spiritual.
I grew up Catholic but I'mobviously really not anymore and
I'm not religious at all.
I don't consider myselfreligious at all because it's

(01:03:01):
definitely caused a lot oftrauma.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
I think we would be friends if you were closer,
because it sounds very similar.
Like I, I have a lot of uminterest in like celtic paganism
and I think that there's somevalue.
In the wheel of the year, forexample, like I saw you
celebrating I don't rememberwhat it was, it must have been a
soul, it was something recent,so maybe the star.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Yeah, yeah, I, I do celebrate the Sabbaths.
I don't do like a big party,but I do like a self-celebration
where I do the cleansing andwhatever is necessary for the
day, and I love that stuff.
I think it's what fits me best.
Yeah, and that's why I wrote it.

(01:03:43):
Yeah, I think it's great toinclude that, because it's
another option for beingconnected to spirituality that
isn't organized religion no, Iwill never write organized
religion unless it's for apurpose and it's usually going
to be a bad purpose like a likethey'd be evil, like it'd be,
like you can consider the cadrean organized religion
interesting because they'rewitch hunters.
They're witch hunters, they'rewitch hunters and I never

(01:04:05):
specifically say who they are,but they are.
You can consider them witchhunters.
So the super organized religion.
And so, yeah, if I ever dowrite organized religion, it's
usually they're the bad guy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah, that's understandable.
I have a friend I'm not goingto say their name right now, but
they left a religious cult as avery young, like a, I guess,
like young adult, like 18, andstarted exploring other
spiritualities.
And they have that.
They still have that experiencesometimes where they feel like,
oh no, I was told that to haveanything other than believing in
this one thing was evil, andit's really hard for them

(01:04:40):
sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Yeah, that's the problem and like I'm not here to
obviously I'm not here to shameanybody or bash anybody's
beliefs, but I definitely agreethere is a problem with
organized religion and I can seewhy people are leaving it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Yeah, yeah, that resonates with me as well.
Fun fact in the army, you haveto put your religion on your dog
tags.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
And I was looking at these blank spaces that you put
the letters for, the lettersthat make up your religion, and
I didn't have.
I'm like can I leave it blank?
But then I'm like I could putanything in there, so I just put
Jedi Knight.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Nice, I love that.
I didn't know this.
That's great yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
So there was a period of time where people just
referred to me as Jedi.
I mean that's pretty great,Just because it's on my dog tags
.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
What's the most fun, or possibly just the most
rewarding part of writing thisseries.

Speaker 3 (01:05:46):
The most rewarding part is knowing that my story is
out there and that I'm I'mfulfilling a dream that I had
since I was a kid, so I thinkthat's really rewarding.
And, of course, again gettingto connect with people like you
guys, and that's just superrewarding as the community.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
Yeah, I mean that's.
I mean that's the purpose ofthis podcast is like trying to
find that community that was,honestly, I feel like very hard
to find before.
Yeah, and and I.
I love it because I lovetalking to people about zombies,
and people at work are gettingtired of it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
My coworkers are too.
I'm known as the zombie personat my work, which I don't know,
but again it's like it's a goodexample of.
for a while I was like I'm notgoing to tell anybody at work
that I do this.
And then I was like this issuch a big part of my life and
it's a big part of what I loveand like.
If that makes them, I'm notgoing to like force them to
watch a zombie movie with me,but I am gonna just share that I

(01:06:43):
love zombies and that was likemy whole personality like.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
I have friends that don't like zombies, but that's
okay yeah, we can like differentthings.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
That makes it interesting.
I don't know if this happens toyou, but I'm.
My only fear is that when I wasa kid, I was obsessed with
unicorns frankly, still am, andthat's cute.
For so long, I just only gotunicorn things and I have a
feeling that for the rest, thenext little while, I'm going to
get only zombie things.
That's me.
Yeah, you only get zombiethings.

Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
That's me uh, well, dragons.
Like you see behind me, I havedragon things, I have zombie
things, I have mostly halloweenthings.
I guess is it is the collectiveterm- yeah, the best holiday.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
So you already best holiday ever.
I agree, we still have um hisname's rod zombie.
He's a life-sized zombie at ourfront door.
We got him for Halloween and wejust decided you know what?
He stays up all year.
Leave him up.
Yeah, Leave him up.
His shoes are starting to kindof like fall apart, so I need to
do something.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
So we might need to do something.
Well, like I said, maybe it'seven more appropriate.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, you should bedisintegrating slowly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
When the wind blows, just right.
Sometimes he peeks his head inthrough the front door and
scares, scares our dogs.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
This is real and us we'll come upstairs Cause we our
bedrooms on the like a walkoutbasement and so we'll walk
upstairs and we have to pass thefront door and they'll
literally just be a zombie facelike staring at us kind of
crooked through the doorway.
It's made me jump a few times.

Speaker 3 (01:08:06):
That is so fun.
Yeah, that is so fun yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
I was going to ask you, though.
Like you know, you've alreadyfulfilled a lot of dreams, and
so I'm kind of curious what yourdreams are coming like going
forward.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
Let's see Well, to publish the rest of my book
series, the rest of my bookseries, and I would also like to
get into animation.
I've been slowly practicing howto animate and eventually I'd
love to do like a mini series ofmy books, but it's like a, a
youtube series kind of thing.
So it's not quite like netflixwhere it's episode, it is
episodes, but they're not like30 minutes.

(01:08:38):
Yeah, they would be maybe three, four, five, six minutes, like
they'd be really short.
They'd be animations, it'd belittle pieces of my story.
That sounds so fun.
I'd love to do that someday.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
Yeah, and that's the kind of thing I can be like mom.
Let's watch this together,because we have a hard time
finding things we would bothenjoy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
And then she'll be like it's just like the Jungle
Book, ah.
And then she runs away.
Exactly so.
You know you have some.
You've recorded audio books foryour books.
What made you decide to makethat investment?

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
I think, again, it's to reach out to more people,
because again, there are peoplethat you know have dyslexia or
they can't read very well withtheir eyes, or you know they
have jobs like truck driving.
I want to make it moreaccessible.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Yeah, I absolutely appreciate it, because I really
don't have time to read with myeyes so a lot of my reading is
done in the truck and also ithelps the day go by like I know
um, I, I love, I love the lengthof a book too, because it's you

(01:09:49):
know, I, I can get a book andthat's going to last me like the
week of driving and I can justfully immerse into the story
yeah, you could.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
You could listen to all.
Like how many hours are yourfirst three books in total as
audiobooks?

Speaker 3 (01:10:04):
Oh gosh, I don't know .
I have to do the math.
I will have to look, but Ithink the first three probably
over 10 hours, I'm sure.
Yeah, Easily over 10 hours.
Like I say, I'll have toactually look and add them up,
but that's a nice road trip.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
That's a great thing to put on, like if there's
parents listening.
A great thing to put on whenyou're driving that your kids
can enjoy and you can enjoywould be super fun.
Exactly nice to be immersed ina world.
Well, yeah, uh, it has been alot of fun to get to know you.
I'm so glad we finally got todo this.
I've been, thank you, followingyou like a fangirl on instagram
for a while now.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
You're so sweet and I've I've been loving your guys'
stuff too.
It's been great.
We'll have to like, definitelyhang out again soon.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Do a zombie retreat, maybe a virtual one, yeah, or
something else fun.
That's step one.
Yeah, I'm in Yay.
In the meantime, where canpeople find you and your books
and your audio books?

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
They can find them on and Barnes Noble, and
eventually I will be doingsigned copies through my website
, so that'll be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:11:06):
Yeah, we'll have all those links in the description.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Yeah, and your website's really great, so we'll
have that as well for folks tocheck out, and you can also.
If you want to hang out onInstagram, you're also there.
What's your handle on Instagram?

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Authorxzombie.
That's where you'll see all myart.
I'm on hiatus right now.
I've just been taking a breakfrom posting.
I mean I'm still active, I'llstill answer DMS and messages
and stuff and I'll put a post, astory, once in a while, but
I've been mostly taking a break.
But I'm there.
Um, if you want to reach out oranything, definitely I will get
it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
That is awesome.
Uh, that is awesome.
Well, I think, unfortunately,it's the end of our time
together.
Oh no, I know we have to leavethe world of the Wizards of the
Apocalypse and come back to thisone.
Ah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
There's no magic in this world.
There is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Well, I know too bad.
Is there no magic in this world?
Who here doesn't believe inmagic?
You know like side eye all ofyou.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I think the billionaires are hoarding the
magic no, they can't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Can they hoard magic?

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
I feel like this is a good debate you know, I don't
know, I mean is, uh, it's jeffbezos just hoarding magic?

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
I think he is yeah, maybe he has a, an evil wizard
helping them out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Maybe you know this is something we'll look into I
could see it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
We did learn recently that um voodoo practitioners
helped bill clinton get thepresidency.
This is a true oh my gosh, atrue slash, not true story that
we heard, yeah, um, on anotherinterview.
Yeah, so you never know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Yeah, yeah, yes, that was also us oh boy, yeah, I'm
like, I mean I wasn't.
I was very young when billclinton was president.
But I mean I don't know, youknow I was too young.
But I'm not gonna take that offthe table though yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Well, the fact is is that they went on honeymoon to
haiti, and so then there's likeall this story around it.
So who knows if it's true ornot, but I'm gonna go on record
and say I believe in magic.
Uh, I do, too.
Really amazing things happenthat are not explainable, and if
you don't believe in magic,that's cool too.
That's the whole point of thisuh world we live in is we can
all have different perspectives.
But in the meantime, please gocheck out katherine larkin's

(01:13:17):
work.
It's super fun, it's great foradults and young folks, and you
can just enjoy the art, like theart alone will be really,
really beautiful to look at andexplore the map on our website
and come hang out with us all onInstagram.

Speaker 3 (01:13:31):
Heck, yeah, this will be fun.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Yeah, thanks everybody for joining us on the
zombie book club.
If you want to give us somesupport, you can leave a rating,
a review, send us a voicemailup to three minutes.
No longer than three minutes,it won't let you.
I tried At 614-699-0006.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
I don't know how many zeros, that was, but figure it
out, also in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
It's in the show notes.
You can see it with your eyes.
You can also follow us onInstagram at
ZombieBookClubPodcast, where weare hanging out with our
Instagram friends likeAuthorXZombie.
Also, you can join the BrainMunchers Collective Discord.
All the links.

(01:14:19):
They're in the description.
We're in all those places Also.
We have a newsletter.
That's in the description.
They're in the description.
We're in all those places Also.
We have a newsletter.
That's in the description too.
You can sign up for it and thenwe can communicate with you if
the billionaires take away ourinternet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:32):
Yeah, or make the algorithm change in some way we
can't predict.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Well, thanks for listening everybody.
The end is very, very nigh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Bye-bye, everybody Bye-bye, bye-bye.

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Wizards of the Apocalypse with Special Guest Catherine Larkin | Zombie Book Club Ep 94

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Wizards of the Apocalypse with Special Guest Catherine Larkin | Zombie Book Club Ep 94