January 8, 2025 • 53 mins
This podcast was recorded on November 21st, 2024.
What if the key to healing your family relationships and breaking generational cycles lies in understanding hidden dynamics? In this episode of the Zulu One Podcast, we explore the transformative power of Family Constellations with Macha Einbender, a skilled facilitator whose work has improved countless lives. Macha shares personal stories of how this systemic healing modality has strengthened marriages, deepened parent-child connections, and uncovered the roots of generational trauma. Together, we discuss the profound insights and practical steps that can lead to lasting transformation in relationships. Don’t miss this conversation filled with real-life breakthroughs, wisdom on balancing family systems, and Macha’s vision for making this work more accessible to everyone.
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Find more from Macha: Michelle Blechner: www.Michelleblechner.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Zulu One Podcast.
Today I'm interviewing MashaEinbender, a highly skilled and
experienced family consolationfacilitator.
She dedicates her expertise tohelp individuals understand and
navigate relationship anddynamics within their families.
Through her extensiveexperience and innovative
methods, she skillfullyfacilitates engagements that
(00:21):
allow for a deeper understandingof family ties, providing
insight and resolution tolong-standing familiar issues.
This unique approach haspositioned her as a key figure
in her field, making a profoundimpact in the lives of her
numerous clients.
Today on the podcast we haveMasha Einbender, a family
(00:51):
constellations facilitatorthat's been doing this work for
decades, right Masha, what wouldyou say?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
How long you've been a student?
For more than a decade, butdefinitely been, you know, doing
this work actively as work andas a facilitator, probably like
in the last five years, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Five years.
So when did you, when were youfirst introduced to it?
Like, what was the?
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So it's actually really cool.
I would say, like 14 years ago,maybe 15 years ago, yeah, my
kids were really small and I wasin like this phase of my life
where I just wanted to tryeverything.
I was raised super spiritual,like you, and always loved
anything that was like new.
Anything that was new I wantedto try.
(01:39):
Yeah.
I figured you know, this soundsreally cool.
And I found out about thisthing called Family
Constellation and I thought, ohmy God, this sounds amazing, I
want to try it.
And I heard about this girl whowas doing it and I invited her
to come to my house and Iinvited a bunch of my friends
who did not know what they weregetting themselves into and they
(02:01):
rarely do.
Now, looking back, I think tomyself like, oh my, what did I
do to my friends?
Like, thank God, they stilltalk to me.
I mean, seriously, they allcame to my home and Natalie came
over and she did me first,obviously because it was my
house, my idea, and I was blownaway.
(02:22):
I mean the tears that werefalling down my face.
I felt like what have I beendoing all my life?
Like, oh my God, why didn't Idiscover this sooner?
So I called my mom, who youknow very well, michelle, and I
called her up and she was livingin Miami at the time and I was
like all right, I found the bestthing ever.
(02:43):
I healed you, I healed me, Ihealed seven generations back.
I thought it was hot shit.
You know, I don't know, wereyou allowed to curse Humpies?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, cool, I thought I was socool.
I was like, you know, you gotto fly here, I'll get this chick
to come back and you have todiscover it, and my mom's always
up for anything.
(03:03):
God bless her.
She was like, okay, I'll come,masha.
So she came and she was blownaway as well.
Now what she did was she ranwith it.
She was like I, I want to dothis.
You know, my mom has a degree inpsychology and she's always
been like a lifetime coach.
You know, officially, like atthe time she was life coaching
(03:25):
and she's always been abusinesswoman and and always saw
like opportunities that thatlit her up and she traveled the
world.
She worked with Bert, sheworked with you know, all the
people that I had never evenheard of and, like I said, I
always tell her all the time.
I'm like you know anything coolyou discovered through me.
Don't forget that you know so.
(03:46):
So, obviously, when, when Ijust saw firsthand how many
lives it touched and how manypeople this helped, and after
seeing so many people, you know,just witnessing so much pain
and suffering and having been ina community of people who have
been actively spiritual alltheir lives, like we're talking,
(04:06):
abraham Hick Cruises, you know,doing Louise Hay affirmations
every single day, drinking greenjuice.
I mean people who were spiritualand living life well but were
in bad relationships and were,you know, spiritually wealthy
but financially depleted.
(04:27):
And when they discovered this,all of a sudden, their lives
would change.
All of a sudden, theirrelationships would work All
like.
I mean, I always see it I'msure you do too when you're in
the field and you see somebodylike there before, before being
on the field, and then after,it's like they've just been
reborn.
(04:48):
I mean, it's better than botoxlike they literally like, and
they come out and they're likeglowing, and you're like, wow,
you are a beautiful person whoknew, you know, um, so it's,
it's something that I Idiscovered that I really wanted
to pursue and be able to helpother people and you know, of
course, help my mom, because Ithink my mom is so brilliant at
(05:10):
it and I know she always talksabout your family and your mom
and she loves your family andyour mom so much and just all
the people that I've met,facilitators that are just so
extraordinary, so I wanted tojoin the family and do this and
it seems so much it's a work offamily systems, right, it's like
(05:33):
you can't help but bring yourfamily system into the family
constellations, right, it's partof the conversation and for a
little bit of kind ofhousekeeping.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
For people that don't know, masha's mother, michelle
Blechner, is a at this point,world-renowned family
constellations facilitator, andI remember when she went to her
first constellation with MarkWolin that's the author of
Didn't Start With.
You Start With you.
And that's where we originallymet.
And so to see her transition,or like her you know this word
(06:08):
is overused but to see hergrowth in that or that journey
that she's gone to now you knowyou guys were in Abu Dhabi
recently, I mean yeah.
Can you tell me a little bitabout that, like from seeing her
from first discoveringconstellations and I know she
has, like the Abraham Hicks youknow background for anyone
that's more law of attractionkind of world and, of course,
(06:29):
miracles.
I know she had some work therebut to see her growth to where
she is now is incredible.
Tell me a little bit about AbuDhabi how that, how that or how
the relationship came about.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, so about, I would say, like two years ago,
she met somebody who wasaffiliated with Tony Robbins and
and they had talked about mymother, and so then they had
invited my mom to come in andteach in Mexico at one of their
events they call happiness, andwe went.
(07:00):
I went with my mom because youknow my mom, I mean at the time
she was 79.
Now she's 82.
She was turning 80 that year,and so you know, of course, I
went with her and it was magic.
I mean, it was like, first ofall, most of these people who
were all like, devoted to TonyRobbins and devoted to
(07:21):
motivational lifestyle, they hadnever even heard of Family
Constellation.
And there were people therefrom all over the world which
really struck me because I waslike, wait, like why is this so
unpopular?
And you and I have talked aboutthis a lot, you know the
resistance to it, and but I meansome of these people now, like
two years later they are, theirlives have changed completely,
(07:44):
like the same people.
I mean it's incredible because,like it's the same people.
So you see them, theirevolution of who they are now.
I mean we're talking aboutgoing from wanting to take their
own lives to now being to beingcoaches themselves and and
saving millions of other people,thousands of other people.
So that was very cool.
(08:06):
And then that opened up thiswhole community of beautiful
people.
Just amazing, just amazing.
I mean, you know the whole TonyRobbins community.
Actually, the reason why I havethis cup of hot tea and honey
is because I just came from UPW,where I played all out and he
(08:27):
lost my voice and you know, justlike jumping up and down and
saying yes, and you know allthat stuff.
And then she got invited to goto Abu, dhabi, which was just, I
mean, oh my God, like a monthago we were in Abu Dhabi and
again the same type of event,this happiness event and same
(08:47):
group of people, but of course,they always add on and just
seeing my mom up there andhelping people and helping them
discover these missing pieces tothemselves and restoring order
and love in their familydynamics, it was incredible.
Best part, too, is that my15-year-old daughter came with
us.
Oh, that's so cool.
(09:09):
It makes me emotional because Ilove that she got to see her
grandma like in such, just likein all her glory, you know,
because when my mom is up thereshe is like it's unbelievable,
it's like something takes overher and she always says it's not
her, she's a bridge, you know,like she does this work and
(09:30):
something beautiful comesthrough her.
So the fact that Remy was ableto see that and witness that is
was really cool such a beautifulthing to see.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
it's just a generational healing playing out
as well, like the effects ofthe generational healing,
because I've I've witnessed yourmom also do a lot of personal
work and so it's just like justsuch a beautiful thing to go
through that and and be thereand then you know, like fully
step into her power, you know,and in the phase of life that
she's in is also just such abeautiful thing too as it become
.
This like spiritual mentor andguide is just it's, it's really
(10:08):
incredible to witness what that,what that looks like.
And I remember being in in herliving room here in miami and
just started the meditations.
We were just like starting withthe meditations, right, and
then little by it, grew intothis constellations on a regular
basis, and then now, where itis now is like it's incredible
(10:30):
and it's just it's reallyhumbling to see the power of
this work.
And you know we talk aboutsystemic resistance is what we
were talking about a littlewhile ago and to kind of explain
what that is, it's the system'sreaction to change Right, that
says, hey, I want to keep thisthe same.
There is a force or there's a,there's a reactionary effort to
(10:53):
not make it change Right.
So a lot of people talk aboutwhen they're on the way to a, to
a workshop or a familyconsolation.
You know your call, your kidcalls in sick, or you get a flat
tire, your car doesn't start,or you know your alarm went off.
It didn't go off, or whateverthat is that's going to prevent
you from making this movementhappen.
Did you guys witness that withTony's events at all, or was
(11:16):
there just so much momentum thatit really didn't affect it?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, that's a beautiful thing about the Tony
events is that there's reallyvery little resistance.
The resistance that you see,that I see all the time in those
kinds of events, are peoplethat they'll sit down next to my
mom and my mom will say youknow, um, so what do you want to
work on?
And they're like no, everythingis great.
You know, I mean really nocomplaints, I, I really can't
think of anything.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, just, my mom's like, hmm,
(11:48):
very interesting, and theneverything kind of unfolds like
it's, and it's never what youexpect it to be.
So that's the type ofresistance that I've seen there.
But I've seen all sorts ofresistance, you know, all around
of people that are so excitedto come to a workshop and, like
you said, their, their kid getssick or something happens or
whatever it is, and they don'tcome.
And people that I've known allmy life that know exactly what
(12:10):
my mom does or what we do, andthey see firsthand what's
happening and it's like come on,you, we can, we can make this
happen for you.
We, you know, just give it achance.
But yeah, I think there isdefinitely that systemic
resistance that is at play.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I've literally seen somebody walk to your mom's door
, turn around and leave yeah,totally yeah, just turn around
and leave.
You know which was like, oh mygosh, like that, there's just so
much.
There's so much loyalty, andthat's what we see in family
constellations.
A lot is that I'm so loyal tomy family system that I'm
(12:53):
willing to carry this burden,even if it costs me my life.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Exactly Like that beautiful book too.
I mean, really, it's you know,and in retrospect, like I didn't
know what I was getting myselfinto that first day, when I
invited all my friends over anddid that, I thought we were
going to have a little spiritualgathering, kind of like the
equivalent of a sound bathhealing.
I didn't know that I was goingto.
And actually every singleperson that's been my OG,
(13:19):
consolation group everybody's ina very different place.
Energy, um, constellation groupeverybody's in a very different
place.
Like life has, like not toquote Tony, but life has never
been the same basically sincesince then.
So, yeah, so that's, that's abeautiful thing that I know is
that every single person that Iinvited into my home that first
day um, I'm close with all ofthem still, and they've all,
(13:42):
they all broke through thingsand continue to do the work,
little by little, some more thanothers, but every single one of
them has shifted from a placeof fear, whatever it is and so
when you know, I I saw, I thinkI saw the documentary, the the
tony tony, I'm not your gurudocumentary, and um, what I
(14:05):
noticed is that he's talking heseems like he's talking already
about systemic principles in hisown way, kind of talking about
it, and I'm like, is he doingconstellations?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
is he, is this part of it?
And then come to find out.
I asked a couple people thathad been, that had been involved
with him previously, and Isuddenly, you know, like it saw
that it was like no, he's not.
And then your mom came into thepicture and I'm like, oh my
gosh, it'd be really interestingto see what that group looks
like and doing the familyconstellations and having that
(14:38):
part of it.
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, he was totally pre-filled.
But you know, a lot of what hetalks about is so much like that
generational healing.
And I mean because he's had hisown wounds as a kid and his own
family dynamic.
So I think that you know, mostof the time people start there
right, you start like with likewhat your family, what your
relationship was like with yourmom, with your dad, but then to
(15:01):
be able to go and actually fixthat I I hate the word fix, but
to you know what I'm talkingabout Reconcile, reconcile.
I love that.
Yeah, just reconcile and putall those pieces back together
and restore love and order.
And it's just a beautiful giftbecause everybody wants to heal
their relationship with theirparents, with their families,
with themselves.
People just don't know how.
(15:23):
Or, like Mark Wolwan said, hewas going blind and his life was
falling apart and he traveledthe world and the greatest gurus
were saying to him go home andwork on your relationship with
your mom.
And he was like that is notwhat I traveled across the world
to find out.
Give me something more.
What herbal supplement should Itake?
(15:44):
What can what?
What can I do to heal this?
And and um.
But yeah, it really does startthere, your mom and your dad.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And yeah, that's like the the hardest work that that
you can do is sitting right infront of you right as to
understand your parents.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
A hundred percent.
I mean, it's so much easier tolove your friends and to love
you know even strangers or toforgive other people, but you
know to really take a long lookat your mom and your dad and
your family dynamic and youreverything that comes behind you
and finding out you know whatwars your family has been in,
what tragedies and also, like Ialways like to say because I'm
(16:21):
so rooted in Abraham, it's likewhat gifts can you bring forward
?
What beautiful talents?
There's so many resources thatwe can get from our ancestors.
So once you start diving indeep there, it's like a gift,
the gift that keeps on giving.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, and I love your mom saying our ancestors are
overstaffed and underwork andunderworked, right, yes, yes,
yes, like we don't call on themand you know they, they want to
help us, they don't.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
You know, she always says all the time like they do
not want you to carry this painfor them.
You know she, so she hadeverybody in Abu Dhabi like
saying in their, in their nativetongue this pain does not
belong to me, because MarkWolven's book yeah, so Mark
Wolven's book, translated inFrench, is um or um and in
(17:15):
Spanish right.
So which is very different fromit.
Didn't start with you.
Yeah.
So it like hits harder.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
It hits a lot harder, yeah it hits a lot harder Like
this pain is not mine.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Holy shit, like I don't need to carry this anymore
, like I've.
You know all these people thathave been carrying around
generational burdens that theyhave no idea, they don't
understand.
Why are they depressed?
Why are they anxious?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
What's going on?
Why are they sick?
And it's oftentimes becausethey've been carrying something
out of loyalty for years.
You know that seemingly havetheir life together, are in that
toxic relationship and they'regetting.
You know they're in a in atoxic dynamic at work and
they're spiritually abundant butfinancially, you know, barren
Right, and you see like thesethings don't make sense unless
(18:17):
you add the other dynamic ofsaying there's systemic
loyalties in the family systemthat you're, there's patterns
that you're repeating and whenput that into play, you can
start really being like oh,there's a whole and I like to
call it math because I don'tknow, I don't know how else to
put it but there's like a wholepart to the equation that's
affecting my day-to-day lifethat I have.
(18:39):
No, that I didn't even knowthat existed until you do this
type of work of familyconstellations, do you see that
in people just having thatrealization, that click like
pre-constellations andpost-constellations?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
For sure all the time , like something just finally
registers in their head,especially when everybody was
tapping their foot, doing thisstampede of like, stampeding of
like.
This pain does not belong to me.
I mean, people were saying itin Russian, people were saying
it in Spanish, people weresaying it in, and she had them
all say it in all their nativetongues, and and then you would
(19:14):
see them cry, cause it's likethey realize right then and
there that whatever they've beencarrying is not theirs.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You know it's like, it's like carrying other
people's like suitcases when youdon't have to, when you know
it's like, why are you doingthat to yourself?
Yeah, and and out of just um,out of loyalty, out of love,
right, of course, that's what weall do.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, we all do it out of love and loyalty, and
we're, of course, loyal to ourfamily.
We never want to betray them.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Tell me, talk to me a little bit about you know, your
relationship with your family,from a systemic perspective but
also from the day-to-day.
How do you balance those twothings?
The you know, the wisdom of thefield also, but also the human
right.
There's, there's, there's avery human aspect of all of us.
How do you balance those twothings?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So you know, obviously family is very
important to me and, um, andsomebody who's always made like
my friends, my family too,because I was only child and, um
, I shouldn't say that I was theonly child, actually like we
could talk more about that toobut I had a half.
I have a half sister and I hada half brother who passed?
away.
So, um, you know, um, that's arealization that I had in Abu
(20:24):
Dhabi, which was really wild.
We could talk about that.
But how I do with my family isthat it's really important for
me for my family to always knowthat I'm here for them and that,
you know, always want to be aresource of being someone that's
helpful and that is there tolisten to them and to be there
for them.
So, no matter who's in myfamily, no matter what's going
(20:46):
on, I'll stop anything for them.
As far as my you know, myparents are concerned, obviously
, like, I think about my fatherevery day.
My father's passed away yearsago, so, you know, I honor him.
I think about different thingsthat I know would make him smile
, make him happy.
I know certain things that hewould be like no, no, no, mosh,
(21:06):
that's not good, you know like.
So I do think about that.
My mom obviously I have a veryclose relationship with her and
definitely, you know, workthrough a lot of different
things Wasn't always perfect,but I think that's like that's
beautiful in itself because itgives you compassion to be able
to help with other things.
So I would say that now we'rein a pretty good space, good
(21:30):
place, which is good for herimage.
I mean, nobody wants to go tosomebody who's estranged from
their family to help heal theirown repair, to help heal like
their own rip.
And as far as my husband and mychildren are concerned, I'm
very, it's very important thatthere are no, there are no
(21:51):
secrets.
I don't, you know, I don't, Idon't really hide anything.
I mean, you know, once in awhile, my husband, I'll hide
something, a purchase orsomething you know hide the
Amazon boxes, but you know.
But we laugh about that stuffand yeah, so in my day-to-day
life, that's some of the stuffthat you know, just always being
upfront, always being authenticand always making sure that
(22:15):
they know that I am the big one.
They are the little ones, notputting too much responsibility
and burden on them, but you knowenough responsibility so that
they grow.
I mean, I have a 17 and a 15year old, so you want to give
them some responsibilities, butnever thinking that my happiness
depends on them.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You know that, like they are, that is a price that a
lot of children have paid.
You know that, like they are,that is a price that a lot of
children have paid.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Totally Like I'm good , you know, like there's nothing
that you guys can do, or youknow, like there I'm, my
happiness is my own work and myjoy is my own work.
As their joy is their own work,I mean, I'll do anything to
make them happy and all of that.
But I also know that there'snot, you know, unless you want
(23:03):
to be happy yourself, there'sreally not much you could do as
a parent.
So that's, that's important.
So it's important for me tomodel, obviously, a good
relationship with their dad and,um, you know, with my husband,
like that's important, you know,for their future relationship.
So, you know, all those thingsare things that I keep in mind,
um, and just teaching them everyday that family is important
and family, friends and family.
You have to be there for them,for people Never ignore
(23:25):
anybody's pain.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Hi, I'm Alicia John's sister and partner of Zulu One.
Together, we're focused oncreating a community of healing
and growth.
You can help by becoming asupporter on Buzzsprout Just
click the link in thedescription.
Thank you so much for being apart of this journey with us.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Masha, what does it look like, on the day-to-day
relationship with your husband,having this additional aspect of
family constellations as a toolin your tool belt?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
isolations as a tool in your tool belt.
So you know it's great, I meanhe loves it.
He's not like he's been on thefield, he's done, he's done
workshops, he's participated butand he honors the work deeply,
but he's not like, oh my God,let me go along with this is so
cool.
You know he loves my mom, soanything that you know she does
and that I do, he takes aparticular interest and he sees
the value of it.
You know, but my husband is a,he's a dentist.
(24:22):
You know he's like he's, he'spretty grounded, loves to fish.
You know, like meat andpotatoes type of guy, but he, he
definitely sees value in thisand in our relationship.
Like I, this is where I'velearned a lot just in my life,
and not even through familyconsolation but with other
(24:43):
spiritual things that I've done.
But family consolation as wellis just like the dynamic between
a husband and a wife and how tohonor that.
You know, just like there arecertain things like I know that
when he comes home from work,like just leave him alone for
half an hour, you know thattransition period, let him just
settle in, settle down, um, notcome at him, um, just honoring
(25:07):
that, the space that he's in,and also to nobody wants.
Nobody wants to be coached in acouple.
You know that's.
There's nothing sexy about that,you know like there's, just
like you know, there's nothinglike that, like so, if he asks
for advice, I'll and he does alot I'll offer it and you know,
(25:30):
and he values that advice frommy mom, from myself, my mom's
helped him personally and inbusiness and with relationships
and things like that helped himpersonally and in business and
with relationships and thingslike that.
So I think that's an importantfactor is, like I I've never
been one to exert my beliefsonto onto anyone.
So and like I mentioned before,like he's, he's got it going on
(25:51):
, he's pretty good.
I've known my husband since Iwas five years old, so I know
that's a gift.
Yeah it is a gift.
So I knew what I was gettingmyself into.
I know his family, I know hisdynamics, you know like where,
uh, my mom knows his family, mymom knew his dynamics, my dad,
everybody.
So that was that was great.
It's like I already knew, youknow what the family system was
(26:12):
like.
So yeah.
I mean it's it's had, it's hadchallenges, had challenges like
every single thing, but I wouldsay that for the most part, it's
been pretty amazing yeah,really good, and that's.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You know, once, once I started like really getting
into this work and I I met mywife right after I did my first
constellation, about six monthsafter I did my first
constellation, and you know, youstart seeing the forest rather
than the trees in some way, andyou're like, oh well, this is,
(26:44):
oh, this is another patternthat's in my family and this is
a pattern that's in my family.
And then you know like, okay,well, let's, let's work on this
and I'll be like I'll work onthis and we'll, little by little
, and and it's just been, Iattribute the success of my
relationship with my wife andthe father that I am 100% to
this work.
I just can't, I can't attributeit to anything else.
(27:06):
It's not through, you know,just my innate skills.
Right, it's not just this.
You know that I just ended upbeing.
It's just the more that I workon myself, the more available I
am, the more present I am, themore I'm unentangled from from
old patterns and the more I canright size my relationships with
(27:28):
everything and my reactions tothings.
It's just such a a powerfultool that and I you know this
this podcast is literally aboutfamily consolation.
So this is what we talk about,but I'm like I'm a broken record
.
I'm like, well, I'm from, froma systemic perspective, this is
probably you know, and I can, Ican kind of come off like that,
you know, and be just like toconsolation and and I I struggle
(27:52):
with that.
I struggle with that, with thataspect because, know, when you
facilitate a constellation,you're doing the stuff and you
see the pattern over and overand over and over and over and
over and over again you, you, I,I, I know, I, I struggle with
having the empathy that peopleare at the beginning of the
journey, not at, not at, youknow, 16, 17 years later, you
(28:12):
know through throughout thisprocess.
So that's right, do you do youever um, with that type of, that
type of dynamic or kind ofunderstanding things or just
jumping into facilitating withthings, with people?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, a lot, definitely.
I think it's like a you know, um, um, that's definitely
something that I, that I do, youknow, uh, especially with if I
have friends who have um, aredivorced or you know things like
that, I'll, you know, remindthem to talk nicely about their
formers, you know, and you know,just to bring up certain things
(28:49):
about their spouse, theirformer spouse, that they see in
their kids.
You know those types of things,but usually it's pretty welcomed
and I've learned kind of whento shut my mouth and when to put
my two cents in, so that peopledon't hate me, that certain
(29:13):
behaviors, like if my, you know,my kids will tell me something
I'll be like, well, you know,like the reason why that
so-and-so is so-and-so, becauseobviously they have, you know,
issues with their this, you know, so, like I'm I'm able to have
like that different type of haton Um, but I've tried not to be
like overly, like overly worriedor anxious or scared, cause
(29:36):
then that creates a whole otherthing.
You know, like I can't beconcerned about every little
thing that comes out of my mouthor my husband's mouth, like in
fear that I'm causing likegenerational trauma, you know,
or like because I mean they haveto have something to tell their
therapist later on or theirfacilitator like they'll have to
have something to work on.
(29:57):
Otherwise it's not fun.
But but you know, for the mostpart I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty
careful, but it does seep intomy life a lot because it's it's
so personal.
So, yeah, I mean it happens alot.
You know where I'm talking to afriend or I meet somebody.
I mean I don't know about you,but I'm always meeting strangers
(30:18):
and they're always telling metheir life story.
So you know, can't help it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It's painful, how much it's like oddly painful,
how much people are juststarving for connection.
And if you're just open andyou're not entangled in your own
kind of crap, right you, youcould just open up your, your
perception a little bit.
And people are like I'mstarving for connection and I
think that's what at the end ofthe day, what that, what that
really is but kind of going to aprevious point, you were um.
(30:50):
You were talking about umparenting right.
It's like how how much thiswork has, or like, do you see,
do you see how this work has?
Has um gone into your kids?
Is that something?
That that you've, that you'veseen that connection?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
For sure, like I I mean my, both my kids are very
compassionate, loving beings and, um, you know, they recognize
the human suffering and humanemotions very well.
They're both like superconnected to that.
And with my parenting, you knowI just we talk about love a lot
, we talk about forgiveness, wetalk about you know just how we
(31:32):
can create our own reality, howdifferent the things that we
tell ourselves and the wordsthat we choose to use very
important and yeah, you knowthat comes into my parenting, I
think, every second of every daypretty much.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And you mentioned something that was really
important to, I think, to have aconversation about, and, for
the listeners that don't knowanything about family
constellations, what are kind ofsome of the hidden dangers of
speaking ill of your formerpartner, like what's, what's
some of the dynamics that comethrough that well a former
partner, like if you, if you'remarried before and you have
(32:25):
children with that person, yourchildren are you, you know, part
you, part your former.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
So if you start bashing them, your child is
internalizing that.
They're internally saying likewell, then there's the who they
perceive to be the weaker parentand it causes just like
unnecessary stuff.
Like why do that?
So, even if you despise yourformer, it's important to find
(32:51):
things that can kind ofreconcile that.
You know like, oh my God, whenyou smile like that, it reminds
me so much of your dad.
Or, um, the way that you playthe piano is so much like your
mom.
It's such a beautiful gift thatyou inherited from her.
Those things bring that back toform of center and and love, so
(33:12):
that the child knows that theywere created in love.
I mean, you didn't hate yourformer when you had the kid, you
know most of the time, no so,but I think it's really
important as a as a parent, whenyou're, when you're going
through that, because whenyou're, when you have kids,
you're married for life prettymuch.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're in that system forlife, for forever, yeah.
Right Forever.
And that doesn't mean that youhave to have a relationship with
(33:40):
that person, but it you knowit's helpful that there are
gifts that are brought into themix and you can.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
you can wish them well for the sake of your
children, you know, in some ways.
But you know, maybe, whateverthe story is or whatever
happened, you can, you canreconcile and potentially make
your peace or not with that, butyou can say from a distance, I
wish that this person, I wishthis person well, because the
stronger that they are, thestronger our children will be.
(34:05):
And so many people say like mykids, my kids, these are my kids
.
Like there are children, thereare two people had to come
together.
Well, regardless of thosecircumstances, regardless of the
story, to bring life Right andto be able to give your children
that gift is a really powerfulmoment.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
It is because it is about the kids, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
At the end of the day , it really is about their,
because then they'll have todeal with things later on.
That, you know, just not toogreat.
We've seen it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah.
So, masha, what do you see?
Where do you see this workgoing?
Where do you see theconstellations?
What do you see?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
you know the future of constellations and from your
perspective, I would love to seeit be so mainstream that it's
like, you know, it's likedrive-through constellations,
like that would be really cool,but just something that is, that
that resistance just dissipatesand that there are more and
more facilitators that do thiswork and that do it powerfully
(35:03):
and beautifully, and that thereare more opportunities to do
these large groups and workshops, because I think when people
come together, it's such a gift.
And I've seen theseconstellations, these breakout
rooms, these events wherethere's like a hundred people or
more, and I mean there was a.
There was a situation thathappened in Abu Dhabi that
affected me personally was, um,it was on half siblings you know
(35:28):
which which, if you think aboutlike, even the word half, it's
like, it's like the word X, youknow like it's like you're half
my sister, you're half my,you're my half brother, and it
was beautiful.
It was a beautiful unfoldingfor me to see, because I really
always considered myself an onlychild.
My parents had me.
I have these half siblings frommy father's former marriage
(35:50):
that were way older than me, youknow, that were more like aunts
and uncles, you know, and Imean we're talking like 20 years
older than me like just, youknow, a big, big age gap.
We didn't grow up together, webarely saw each other, and but
they still have to beacknowledged and they still have
to be honored as part of me.
So when I saw that being unfold, that was amazing and like
(36:12):
there were so many people thereand people kept stepping up and
being in this, like a lot ofpeople have the same dynamic of
not talking to their you knowtheir resentment towards their
half sibling or whatever it was,and it was beautiful, Like we
were all hugging each other.
And I was up.
I was up there like kind ofhelping my mom facilitate and
(36:34):
meanwhile, like I'm having thisbreakthrough moment, which was
it was cool, it was very cooland I was so grateful to it, so
I was able to to heal.
There's always something toheal, you know.
It's like always something.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, and there's such power in the integration of
of the ones that we don't evenknow that they're excluded, but
they have they, they, but thateveryone has their place in the
family system.
And I've seen your mom do thiswork a lot.
It's like this is my firstrelationship.
This is my second relationship.
This is my third relationship.
(37:11):
You are my fourth relationship.
Even people that you had itcould have been a high school
kind of sweetheart thing thatthat person has a place in your
story, right, rather than thanhaving this, this exclusion and
same thing comes with half orwith you know, siblings, that
they're, they're, they're partof your, your system.
(37:32):
They're part of your system.
Even the perpetrators in yoursystem have their place.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's so hard to reconcile and that's such a
difficult conversation to haveto say.
Even perpetrators have theirplace in the system.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, I mean that's why this work is definitely like
not mainstream yet, because Ithink until people can get to
that place, everybody's sodivided like good, bad, you know
, evil this like black and white.
you know it's just.
Life is not like that andthat's what one of the things
that Family Constellation hasshown me.
(38:05):
I mean, I've seen so manysituations where I used to judge
.
You know this type of behaviorand then here I am playing that
type of behavior on the fieldand you know this heart opening
experience of being aperpetrator.
And.
I'm not somebody whoperpetrates, yeah, and so being
(38:27):
playing that role and reallydiving in deep on the field of
being that, it's like you're awounded animal.
Yeah.
And once you see that compassion, that like nobody wants to be,
nobody wants to be bad, nobodywants to do that kind of, nobody
wants to hurt people.
So once I started to see thatlike my whole relationship with
(38:51):
the world changed, I mean itstill creeps in.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I'm human, human, but yeah so, um masha, can you talk
about, from your guys's familyperspective, the importance of
the of the perpetrator dynamic?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
so um would you be referring to, like the holocaust
and that?
Speaker 1 (39:08):
kind of thing okay, yeah, so um your dad being a
world war ii vet right and yeah,so.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
So, yeah, I mean, there's so many layers and that.
So my mom is a Holocaustsurvivor.
My grandfather, my mom, was inMarseille, france, when all of
that was going down.
My grandfather, isidore, wasdeported to Auschwitz and my mom
, who was one years old at thetime, with my grandmother, they
were in hiding, and what wasgoing on during that time was my
(39:38):
father, because my parents were22 years apart.
So my dad was an Americansoldier World War II and he was,
you know, part of saving Europe.
And you know there were certainthings that happened that you
know like just war casualties,casualties of war.
The Americans dropped a bomb onmy great-grandmother's home,
(40:00):
wow, and my great-aunt waspregnant.
She was 19, newly married,pregnant and she died.
And my great-grandmothersuffered head injuries.
She was in the hospital for along time and did not know that
her daughter had passed awaybecause you know she would have
lost all will to live.
(40:22):
Her own husband was away atanother camp.
You know her son-in-law.
My grandfather, was in Auschwitz.
There was a lot going down.
So do we blame the Americans?
No way, you know, like theysaved us.
Do we blame the Americans?
No way, you know like theysaved us.
And you know, there's anotherperpetrator in the story, my
grandfather's best friend.
(40:43):
I don't know if he was his bestfriend.
He was calling in his debts,kind of they were going to go to
(41:04):
Switzerland.
So he was, you know, like, hey,you owe me this amount of money
, I'm looking to leave, whateverit is.
And at the time in Marseilleyou were getting money for
denouncing Jews, you know,telling the police where they
were hiding or if they wereleaving or where they were.
Because the south of France,over there in Marseille, was one
(41:26):
of the last places ever taken,actually during World War II.
So that's why my grandfatherwent to Auschwitz, like kind of
late in the game, like he wasthere I hate to say only nine
months, but he was there ninemonths whereas some other people
were there for a couple of game.
Like he was there I hate to sayonly nine months, but he was
there nine months where someother people were there for a
couple of years and he was youngand strong, and he wasn't young
and strong, he wasn't strongwhen he came back.
But his friend told on him andthey came and they got him.
(41:53):
So you know, not only did henot have to pay back my
grandfather, but he also gotrewarded.
So he was tried during theNuremberg trials and they were
going to sentence him to death.
And then after, like it wasjust like I don't know, there
was some politics involved andhe got away.
But I think like the next dayor two days later he was hit by
(42:13):
a truck crossing the street.
Yeah, so again you know theperpetrators.
What would I have done duringthat situation?
You know, you're in wartime.
I don't know what this man'sstruggles were.
I would like to think that hedidn't know that they were going
to take my grandfather andtorture him and do all the
(42:35):
things that they did, you know.
But I mean, when people areliving in war-like situations,
like I don't know.
I've never lived in a wartimesituation, so I don't know what
that could be like.
So you know, all my life I waslike, oh, asshole, you know.
But then I started to see thingsdifferently.
And then I had another, anothermoment when my father's father
(43:21):
left, when my father was nineyears old, he, just like my
father's father, told on him tohis mother and his father said
to him you'll never see me again.
My grandfather's name was Harryand my husband's name is Harry.
So obviously I had to makepeace around this and so all my
(43:51):
life I grew up hearing that thisHarry, my father's father, was
this bastard and my father neversaw him again.
But then, on the field, and Idid a constellation with Susie
Tucker, another amazing, amazingfacilitator, and this guy
played Harry, my grandfather andmy grandmother.
His wife was on the field, mygrandma, annie and she's pushing
(44:12):
me towards my grandfather thispoor guy who was playing my
grandfather, had tears runningdown his face, boogers running
down his nose.
I mean, this guy was a mess.
He's perfect stranger.
I did not want to hug him forthose two reasons first, because
he was, you know this, evilperson and second, because I'm
(44:32):
kind of a germaphobe, like itwas like such a and but all of a
sudden, something, somethingtook over me.
I hugged him and amazing that Iwas able to make peace with this
bastard, harry, my grandfather.
And now he has his rightfulplace behind me and I call on
him for resources because Idon't know.
I don't know what his dynamicwas, I don't know what it was
(44:54):
like for him growing up, I don'tknow what my grandma, annie,
was like.
I didn't know what it was likebeing during the world, the
depression, having lost a son,having a gambling problem, like
I don't know.
So it allows me to have someperspective of that and to not
judge and to bring in.
So yeah, so those are thestories that I tell, I tell my
(45:16):
children, I tell people all thetime, you know, and it it felt
better, felt better than hatinghim.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we kind of understanding
how much the excluded ones inthe family take all the oxygen
out of the room, right, and theyjust serve to perpetuate the
patterns rather than integratingthem and having that resource
behind us.
So you know, I know that, andyou have every reason in the
world to continue those patterns.
(45:45):
Right, it's like every you knowfrom world war to you know,
holocaust to you know, and thecomplexities of the victims and
the perpetrators on differentlevels, on multiple you know,
front and center and very personto person betrayals and then
systemic betrayals ofpersecutions, and you know, just
(46:05):
to really understand that we'reall, we're all both victims and
perpetrators, or we have thecapacity for both victimization
and being perpetrators.
And you know, the more woundedwe are, the more those things
get amplified.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Absolutely.
It's, so the more those thingsget amplified.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
It's so important to heal thosethings and have those
perpetrators that are in yourfamily take their rightful place
behind you, because you knowthey're there for a reason, and
I do owe him life.
You know, if he hadn't had mymy father then I wouldn't be
here today.
So, even though he wasn't themost ideal dad for my dad, he
(46:45):
was the best dad for him.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, wow, yeah, and so you know going, going back a
little bit to your point aboutthe amplification of this work,
you don't?
You and I've talked aboutConstellation Con.
You know doing some, some bigconference on constellations.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Still have to do it.
It's still on my vision board.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, so you know, I, I'm, I'm all about it.
I think that this work reallyhas the, the potential to help
heal the world.
Right To, to be the, a forcethat can stop these patterns of
destruction.
And you know who moreappropriate than than your mom
and your dad going, you know,being the supporting, you know
(47:25):
ancestral powers to these thingsthat that are, that are trying
to help, the help prevent theseatrocities from happening again.
Right, it's just.
I think it's such a beautifulhomage to you.
Know, the fact that your momwas literally smuggled from
house to house during world warii as a baby?
Right, it's like, probably oneof the hardest things to do is
to smuggle a baby not to get,you know, found during
(47:47):
persecution.
Right, just just thecomplexities and the depths of
how much sacrifice andeverything that had to have to
happen to that full circle nowon a world stage in abu di,
having these conversations andbeing supported by an incredible
family and doing all thesethings, is just it's.
You can't make this stuff up,right?
Speaker 2 (48:05):
No, you can't.
My mom says that all the time.
You cannot make these sheets up.
That's what she says all thetime.
And you know also, like theamounts of German people that
come, I've seen so many Germanpeople come to our
constellations and they have somuch shame and they have so much
just ancestral guilt.
You know what some of theirancestors did.
(48:27):
And to be able to help themrelease that because that pain
certainly is not theirs, youknow like they weren't there,
and to see them give that backand to understand why their
ancestors did what they did.
Yeah.
I mean, we certainly can see ittoday, like you know, I can
certainly see today how peoplecan turn the other way and you
(48:50):
know, not want to get involved,and you know you think back then
and think, oh, people didn'tknow there was no social media.
We see things happening now inthe world Like there's social
media.
We see it yeah so, um, there'sobviously a lot of work to be
done there to help heal.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, this, this type of, you know, coming together,
community, loving one another,helping one another yeah, and
reconciling that we're allvictims and perpetrators, right,
and that in our lineage, if wego back far, we all come from
the same place 100%.
Right, and that you know we allhave been victims and
perpetrators and have repeatedpatterns.
(49:29):
And you know, the thing that'smost encouraging is that, little
by little, whatever healingmodality that you've been
involved with is making itbetter right, because if not, we
wouldn't be here.
If it stayed the same, wewouldn't be here, we wouldn't be
enjoying this incredibletechnology and talking about
this healing modality.
So honoring everything thatcame before is such an integral
(49:51):
part of this right, and the uglystuff too.
Like the ugly stuff and thebeautiful stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
You have to embrace it all.
Yeah, you have to embrace itall.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, yeah, but with that, masha, I think this has
been a beautiful conversation.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I always love talking to you.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Likewise, Likewise.
So if you could just kind of,if we could let everybody how to
, how to get, let everybody knowhow to get ahold of you through
social media, what's the bestway to do that everybody know
how to get ahold of you throughsocial media.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
What's the best way to do that?
Sure, so my mom, I manage hersocial media.
It's Missing Link by Michelle.
I can give that to you and herwebsite is
michellewith2elvesblechnercom.
So I follow up with a lot ofthose different things and we're
very accessible, like you canfind us definitely just online
(50:41):
on social media, and I telleverybody.
My mom likes to book her ownappointments.
So anybody reaches out to me, Igive them my mom's cell phone
number.
She likes to book it becauseyou know she has her card games
and she has her things and shelikes to be.
She told me the other, she toldsomebody.
She's like yes, I'm a controlfreak, that's just that's who I
am.
So we book and and I'm startingto do more and more
(51:05):
constellations on my own, so youknow people can reach out there
too, on social media.
So always happy to help and mymom has something that's really
cool on mondays.
It's called urim and it's youcould pay but you don't have to.
It's like I think like $30 or$35, but it's a group coaching
and there's a lot of familyconsolation.
(51:25):
There's a meditation.
It's very casual.
You could pop in, you could popout, so we keep that Zoom link
always the same.
So this way everyone knows thatthey can find us and they can,
that we're there for them andthat there's.
You know they don't have toworry about financial
constraints or anything likethat.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
And that's usually Monday nights right.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
It's every Monday from 11 to 1 PM.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, from 11.
Am to 1 PM.
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, and do you guys, youcould leave your camera off.
You can just tune in.
You can.
You know she, if you send her alittle note on the chat saying
like I don't want to be calledout, she won't call you out.
Just you can.
You can leave if you need to doit while you're driving.
Just something to get you giveyou like a good boost for the
week.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
And and any big plans for the end of the year?
You guys, I heard your mom'scoming down in December.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yep.
So we're going to be the firstweek in December we're going to
be in Palm Beach for Date withDestiny.
Ok.
So we're going to be doinggroups there.
Anyone can join, they can comesee us and we have all that
information on our on ourwebsite and if you sign up for
our newsletter and then she'sgoing to be doing a lot of
different constellations inMiami with her community that
(52:35):
she loves so much, includes youwith her community that she
loves so much.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Includes you and I'm planning on having her back on,
so this would be our third, sothat would be really exciting to
have her on again.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
I love your interviews.
I mean, they're such a gift tome so that I can have them
forever.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, thank you, it's been a pleasure, I love your
mom so much and you guys are thebest.
I just really hold a specialplace with you guys.
We really hold a special placewith you guys.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
We love you so we need to do our Family
Constellation Con.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah, we need to do that.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah.
I'm all in Work on it 2025.
2025, yeah.
That's our time.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, masha, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Thank you, john, really appreciate it, likewise
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
We'll talk soon.
Thanks for tuning in to theZulu One Podcast.
If you found value in today'spodcast, please don't forget to
like, share and subscribe.
Your support means everythingto us and thank you for being
part of this journey.
Welcome to the Zulu One Podcast.
Today I'm interviewing MashaEinbender, a highly skilled and
experienced family consolationfacilitator.
She dedicates her expertise tohelp individuals understand and
navigate relationship anddynamics within their families.
Through her extensiveexperience and innovative
methods, she skillfullyfacilitates engagements that
(00:21):
allow for a deeper understandingof family ties, providing
insight and resolution tolong-standing familiar issues.
This unique approach haspositioned her as a key figure
in her field, making a profoundimpact in the lives of her
numerous clients.
Today on the podcast we haveMasha Einbender, a family
(00:51):
constellations facilitatorthat's been doing this work for
decades, right Masha, what wouldyou say?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
How long you've been a student?
For more than a decade, butdefinitely been, you know, doing
this work actively as work andas a facilitator, probably like
in the last five years, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Five years.
So when did you, when were youfirst introduced to it?
Like, what was the?
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
So it's actually really cool.
I would say, like 14 years ago,maybe 15 years ago, yeah, my
kids were really small and I wasin like this phase of my life
where I just wanted to tryeverything.
I was raised super spiritual,like you, and always loved
anything that was like new.
Anything that was new I wantedto try.
(01:39):
Yeah.
I figured you know, this soundsreally cool.
And I found out about thisthing called Family
Constellation and I thought, ohmy God, this sounds amazing, I
want to try it.
And I heard about this girl whowas doing it and I invited her
to come to my house and Iinvited a bunch of my friends
who did not know what they weregetting themselves into and they
(02:01):
rarely do.
Now, looking back, I think tomyself like, oh my, what did I
do to my friends?
Like, thank God, they stilltalk to me.
I mean, seriously, they allcame to my home and Natalie came
over and she did me first,obviously because it was my
house, my idea, and I was blownaway.
(02:22):
I mean the tears that werefalling down my face.
I felt like what have I beendoing all my life?
Like, oh my God, why didn't Idiscover this sooner?
So I called my mom, who youknow very well, michelle, and I
called her up and she was livingin Miami at the time and I was
like all right, I found the bestthing ever.
(02:43):
I healed you, I healed me, Ihealed seven generations back.
I thought it was hot shit.
You know, I don't know, wereyou allowed to curse Humpies?
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, cool, I thought I was socool.
I was like, you know, you gotto fly here, I'll get this chick
to come back and you have todiscover it, and my mom's always
up for anything.
(03:03):
God bless her.
She was like, okay, I'll come,masha.
So she came and she was blownaway as well.
Now what she did was she ranwith it.
She was like I, I want to dothis.
You know, my mom has a degree inpsychology and she's always
been like a lifetime coach.
You know, officially, like atthe time she was life coaching
(03:25):
and she's always been abusinesswoman and and always saw
like opportunities that thatlit her up and she traveled the
world.
She worked with Bert, sheworked with you know, all the
people that I had never evenheard of and, like I said, I
always tell her all the time.
I'm like you know anything coolyou discovered through me.
Don't forget that you know so.
(03:46):
So, obviously, when, when Ijust saw firsthand how many
lives it touched and how manypeople this helped, and after
seeing so many people, you know,just witnessing so much pain
and suffering and having been ina community of people who have
been actively spiritual alltheir lives, like we're talking,
(04:06):
abraham Hick Cruises, you know,doing Louise Hay affirmations
every single day, drinking greenjuice.
I mean people who were spiritualand living life well but were
in bad relationships and were,you know, spiritually wealthy
but financially depleted.
(04:27):
And when they discovered this,all of a sudden, their lives
would change.
All of a sudden, theirrelationships would work All
like.
I mean, I always see it I'msure you do too when you're in
the field and you see somebodylike there before, before being
on the field, and then after,it's like they've just been
reborn.
(04:48):
I mean, it's better than botoxlike they literally like, and
they come out and they're likeglowing, and you're like, wow,
you are a beautiful person whoknew, you know, um, so it's,
it's something that I Idiscovered that I really wanted
to pursue and be able to helpother people and you know, of
course, help my mom, because Ithink my mom is so brilliant at
(05:10):
it and I know she always talksabout your family and your mom
and she loves your family andyour mom so much and just all
the people that I've met,facilitators that are just so
extraordinary, so I wanted tojoin the family and do this and
it seems so much it's a work offamily systems, right, it's like
(05:33):
you can't help but bring yourfamily system into the family
constellations, right, it's partof the conversation and for a
little bit of kind ofhousekeeping.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
For people that don't know, masha's mother, michelle
Blechner, is a at this point,world-renowned family
constellations facilitator, andI remember when she went to her
first constellation with MarkWolin that's the author of
Didn't Start With.
You Start With you.
And that's where we originallymet.
And so to see her transition,or like her you know this word
(06:08):
is overused but to see hergrowth in that or that journey
that she's gone to now you knowyou guys were in Abu Dhabi
recently, I mean yeah.
Can you tell me a little bitabout that, like from seeing her
from first discoveringconstellations and I know she
has, like the Abraham Hicks youknow background for anyone
that's more law of attractionkind of world and, of course,
(06:29):
miracles.
I know she had some work therebut to see her growth to where
she is now is incredible.
Tell me a little bit about AbuDhabi how that, how that or how
the relationship came about.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, so about, I would say, like two years ago,
she met somebody who wasaffiliated with Tony Robbins and
and they had talked about mymother, and so then they had
invited my mom to come in andteach in Mexico at one of their
events they call happiness, andwe went.
(07:00):
I went with my mom because youknow my mom, I mean at the time
she was 79.
Now she's 82.
She was turning 80 that year,and so you know, of course, I
went with her and it was magic.
I mean, it was like, first ofall, most of these people who
were all like, devoted to TonyRobbins and devoted to
(07:21):
motivational lifestyle, they hadnever even heard of Family
Constellation.
And there were people therefrom all over the world which
really struck me because I waslike, wait, like why is this so
unpopular?
And you and I have talked aboutthis a lot, you know the
resistance to it, and but I meansome of these people now, like
two years later they are, theirlives have changed completely,
(07:44):
like the same people.
I mean it's incredible because,like it's the same people.
So you see them, theirevolution of who they are now.
I mean we're talking aboutgoing from wanting to take their
own lives to now being to beingcoaches themselves and and
saving millions of other people,thousands of other people.
So that was very cool.
(08:06):
And then that opened up thiswhole community of beautiful
people.
Just amazing, just amazing.
I mean, you know the whole TonyRobbins community.
Actually, the reason why I havethis cup of hot tea and honey
is because I just came from UPW,where I played all out and he
(08:27):
lost my voice and you know, justlike jumping up and down and
saying yes, and you know allthat stuff.
And then she got invited to goto Abu, dhabi, which was just, I
mean, oh my God, like a monthago we were in Abu Dhabi and
again the same type of event,this happiness event and same
(08:47):
group of people, but of course,they always add on and just
seeing my mom up there andhelping people and helping them
discover these missing pieces tothemselves and restoring order
and love in their familydynamics, it was incredible.
Best part, too, is that my15-year-old daughter came with
us.
Oh, that's so cool.
(09:09):
It makes me emotional because Ilove that she got to see her
grandma like in such, just likein all her glory, you know,
because when my mom is up thereshe is like it's unbelievable,
it's like something takes overher and she always says it's not
her, she's a bridge, you know,like she does this work and
(09:30):
something beautiful comesthrough her.
So the fact that Remy was ableto see that and witness that is
was really cool such a beautifulthing to see.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
it's just a generational healing playing out
as well, like the effects ofthe generational healing,
because I've I've witnessed yourmom also do a lot of personal
work and so it's just like justsuch a beautiful thing to go
through that and and be thereand then you know, like fully
step into her power, you know,and in the phase of life that
she's in is also just such abeautiful thing too as it become
.
This like spiritual mentor andguide is just it's, it's really
(10:08):
incredible to witness what that,what that looks like.
And I remember being in in herliving room here in miami and
just started the meditations.
We were just like starting withthe meditations, right, and
then little by it, grew intothis constellations on a regular
basis, and then now, where itis now is like it's incredible
(10:30):
and it's just it's reallyhumbling to see the power of
this work.
And you know we talk aboutsystemic resistance is what we
were talking about a littlewhile ago and to kind of explain
what that is, it's the system'sreaction to change Right, that
says, hey, I want to keep thisthe same.
There is a force or there's a,there's a reactionary effort to
(10:53):
not make it change Right.
So a lot of people talk aboutwhen they're on the way to a, to
a workshop or a familyconsolation.
You know your call, your kidcalls in sick, or you get a flat
tire, your car doesn't start,or you know your alarm went off.
It didn't go off, or whateverthat is that's going to prevent
you from making this movementhappen.
Did you guys witness that withTony's events at all, or was
(11:16):
there just so much momentum thatit really didn't affect it?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, that's a beautiful thing about the Tony
events is that there's reallyvery little resistance.
The resistance that you see,that I see all the time in those
kinds of events, are peoplethat they'll sit down next to my
mom and my mom will say youknow, um, so what do you want to
work on?
And they're like no, everythingis great.
You know, I mean really nocomplaints, I, I really can't
think of anything.
And then all of a sudden, youknow, just, my mom's like, hmm,
(11:48):
very interesting, and theneverything kind of unfolds like
it's, and it's never what youexpect it to be.
So that's the type ofresistance that I've seen there.
But I've seen all sorts ofresistance, you know, all around
of people that are so excitedto come to a workshop and, like
you said, their, their kid getssick or something happens or
whatever it is, and they don'tcome.
And people that I've known allmy life that know exactly what
(12:10):
my mom does or what we do, andthey see firsthand what's
happening and it's like come on,you, we can, we can make this
happen for you.
We, you know, just give it achance.
But yeah, I think there isdefinitely that systemic
resistance that is at play.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
I've literally seen somebody walk to your mom's door
, turn around and leave yeah,totally yeah, just turn around
and leave.
You know which was like, oh mygosh, like that, there's just so
much.
There's so much loyalty, andthat's what we see in family
constellations.
A lot is that I'm so loyal tomy family system that I'm
(12:53):
willing to carry this burden,even if it costs me my life.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Exactly Like that beautiful book too.
I mean, really, it's you know,and in retrospect, like I didn't
know what I was getting myselfinto that first day, when I
invited all my friends over anddid that, I thought we were
going to have a little spiritualgathering, kind of like the
equivalent of a sound bathhealing.
I didn't know that I was goingto.
And actually every singleperson that's been my OG,
(13:19):
consolation group everybody's ina very different place.
Energy, um, constellation groupeverybody's in a very different
place.
Like life has, like not toquote Tony, but life has never
been the same basically sincesince then.
So, yeah, so that's, that's abeautiful thing that I know is
that every single person that Iinvited into my home that first
day um, I'm close with all ofthem still, and they've all,
(13:42):
they all broke through thingsand continue to do the work,
little by little, some more thanothers, but every single one of
them has shifted from a placeof fear, whatever it is and so
when you know, I I saw, I thinkI saw the documentary, the the
tony tony, I'm not your gurudocumentary, and um, what I
(14:05):
noticed is that he's talking heseems like he's talking already
about systemic principles in hisown way, kind of talking about
it, and I'm like, is he doingconstellations?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
is he, is this part of it?
And then come to find out.
I asked a couple people thathad been, that had been involved
with him previously, and Isuddenly, you know, like it saw
that it was like no, he's not.
And then your mom came into thepicture and I'm like, oh my
gosh, it'd be really interestingto see what that group looks
like and doing the familyconstellations and having that
(14:38):
part of it.
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, he was totally pre-filled.
But you know, a lot of what hetalks about is so much like that
generational healing.
And I mean because he's had hisown wounds as a kid and his own
family dynamic.
So I think that you know, mostof the time people start there
right, you start like with likewhat your family, what your
relationship was like with yourmom, with your dad, but then to
(15:01):
be able to go and actually fixthat I I hate the word fix, but
to you know what I'm talkingabout Reconcile, reconcile.
I love that.
Yeah, just reconcile and putall those pieces back together
and restore love and order.
And it's just a beautiful giftbecause everybody wants to heal
their relationship with theirparents, with their families,
with themselves.
People just don't know how.
(15:23):
Or, like Mark Wolwan said, hewas going blind and his life was
falling apart and he traveledthe world and the greatest gurus
were saying to him go home andwork on your relationship with
your mom.
And he was like that is notwhat I traveled across the world
to find out.
Give me something more.
What herbal supplement should Itake?
(15:44):
What can what?
What can I do to heal this?
And and um.
But yeah, it really does startthere, your mom and your dad.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And yeah, that's like the the hardest work that that
you can do is sitting right infront of you right as to
understand your parents.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
A hundred percent.
I mean, it's so much easier tolove your friends and to love
you know even strangers or toforgive other people, but you
know to really take a long lookat your mom and your dad and
your family dynamic and youreverything that comes behind you
and finding out you know whatwars your family has been in,
what tragedies and also, like Ialways like to say because I'm
(16:21):
so rooted in Abraham, it's likewhat gifts can you bring forward
?
What beautiful talents?
There's so many resources thatwe can get from our ancestors.
So once you start diving indeep there, it's like a gift,
the gift that keeps on giving.
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, and I love your mom saying our ancestors are
overstaffed and underwork andunderworked, right, yes, yes,
yes, like we don't call on themand you know they, they want to
help us, they don't.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
You know, she always says all the time like they do
not want you to carry this painfor them.
You know she, so she hadeverybody in Abu Dhabi like
saying in their, in their nativetongue this pain does not
belong to me, because MarkWolven's book yeah, so Mark
Wolven's book, translated inFrench, is um or um and in
(17:15):
Spanish right.
So which is very different fromit.
Didn't start with you.
Yeah.
So it like hits harder.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
It hits a lot harder, yeah it hits a lot harder Like
this pain is not mine.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Holy shit, like I don't need to carry this anymore
, like I've.
You know all these people thathave been carrying around
generational burdens that theyhave no idea, they don't
understand.
Why are they depressed?
Why are they anxious?
Speaker 1 (17:54):
What's going on?
Why are they sick?
And it's oftentimes becausethey've been carrying something
out of loyalty for years.
You know that seemingly havetheir life together, are in that
toxic relationship and they'regetting.
You know they're in a in atoxic dynamic at work and
they're spiritually abundant butfinancially, you know, barren
Right, and you see like thesethings don't make sense unless
(18:17):
you add the other dynamic ofsaying there's systemic
loyalties in the family systemthat you're, there's patterns
that you're repeating and whenput that into play, you can
start really being like oh,there's a whole and I like to
call it math because I don'tknow, I don't know how else to
put it but there's like a wholepart to the equation that's
affecting my day-to-day lifethat I have.
(18:39):
No, that I didn't even knowthat existed until you do this
type of work of familyconstellations, do you see that
in people just having thatrealization, that click like
pre-constellations andpost-constellations?
Speaker 2 (18:53):
For sure all the time , like something just finally
registers in their head,especially when everybody was
tapping their foot, doing thisstampede of like, stampeding of
like.
This pain does not belong to me.
I mean, people were saying itin Russian, people were saying
it in Spanish, people weresaying it in, and she had them
all say it in all their nativetongues, and and then you would
(19:14):
see them cry, cause it's likethey realize right then and
there that whatever they've beencarrying is not theirs.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
You know it's like, it's like carrying other
people's like suitcases when youdon't have to, when you know
it's like, why are you doingthat to yourself?
Yeah, and and out of just um,out of loyalty, out of love,
right, of course, that's what weall do.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, we all do it out of love and loyalty, and
we're, of course, loyal to ourfamily.
We never want to betray them.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Tell me, talk to me a little bit about you know, your
relationship with your family,from a systemic perspective but
also from the day-to-day.
How do you balance those twothings?
The you know, the wisdom of thefield also, but also the human
right.
There's, there's, there's avery human aspect of all of us.
How do you balance those twothings?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So you know, obviously family is very
important to me and, um, andsomebody who's always made like
my friends, my family too,because I was only child and, um
, I shouldn't say that I was theonly child, actually like we
could talk more about that toobut I had a half.
I have a half sister and I hada half brother who passed?
away.
So, um, you know, um, that's arealization that I had in Abu
(20:24):
Dhabi, which was really wild.
We could talk about that.
But how I do with my family isthat it's really important for
me for my family to always knowthat I'm here for them and that,
you know, always want to be aresource of being someone that's
helpful and that is there tolisten to them and to be there
for them.
So, no matter who's in myfamily, no matter what's going
(20:46):
on, I'll stop anything for them.
As far as my you know, myparents are concerned, obviously
, like, I think about my fatherevery day.
My father's passed away yearsago, so, you know, I honor him.
I think about different thingsthat I know would make him smile
, make him happy.
I know certain things that hewould be like no, no, no, mosh,
(21:06):
that's not good, you know like.
So I do think about that.
My mom obviously I have a veryclose relationship with her and
definitely, you know, workthrough a lot of different
things Wasn't always perfect,but I think that's like that's
beautiful in itself because itgives you compassion to be able
to help with other things.
So I would say that now we'rein a pretty good space, good
(21:30):
place, which is good for herimage.
I mean, nobody wants to go tosomebody who's estranged from
their family to help heal theirown repair, to help heal like
their own rip.
And as far as my husband and mychildren are concerned, I'm
very, it's very important thatthere are no, there are no
(21:51):
secrets.
I don't, you know, I don't, Idon't really hide anything.
I mean, you know, once in awhile, my husband, I'll hide
something, a purchase orsomething you know hide the
Amazon boxes, but you know.
But we laugh about that stuffand yeah, so in my day-to-day
life, that's some of the stuffthat you know, just always being
upfront, always being authenticand always making sure that
(22:15):
they know that I am the big one.
They are the little ones, notputting too much responsibility
and burden on them, but you knowenough responsibility so that
they grow.
I mean, I have a 17 and a 15year old, so you want to give
them some responsibilities, butnever thinking that my happiness
depends on them.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
You know that, like they are, that is a price that a
lot of children have paid.
You know that, like they are,that is a price that a lot of
children have paid.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Totally Like I'm good , you know, like there's nothing
that you guys can do, or youknow, like there I'm, my
happiness is my own work and myjoy is my own work.
As their joy is their own work,I mean, I'll do anything to
make them happy and all of that.
But I also know that there'snot, you know, unless you want
(23:03):
to be happy yourself, there'sreally not much you could do as
a parent.
So that's, that's important.
So it's important for me tomodel, obviously, a good
relationship with their dad and,um, you know, with my husband,
like that's important, you know,for their future relationship.
So, you know, all those thingsare things that I keep in mind,
um, and just teaching them everyday that family is important
and family, friends and family.
You have to be there for them,for people Never ignore
(23:25):
anybody's pain.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Hi, I'm Alicia John's sister and partner of Zulu One.
Together, we're focused oncreating a community of healing
and growth.
You can help by becoming asupporter on Buzzsprout Just
click the link in thedescription.
Thank you so much for being apart of this journey with us.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Masha, what does it look like, on the day-to-day
relationship with your husband,having this additional aspect of
family constellations as a toolin your tool belt?
Speaker 2 (24:00):
isolations as a tool in your tool belt.
So you know it's great, I meanhe loves it.
He's not like he's been on thefield, he's done, he's done
workshops, he's participated butand he honors the work deeply,
but he's not like, oh my God,let me go along with this is so
cool.
You know he loves my mom, soanything that you know she does
and that I do, he takes aparticular interest and he sees
the value of it.
You know, but my husband is a,he's a dentist.
(24:22):
You know he's like he's, he'spretty grounded, loves to fish.
You know, like meat andpotatoes type of guy, but he, he
definitely sees value in thisand in our relationship.
Like I, this is where I'velearned a lot just in my life,
and not even through familyconsolation but with other
(24:43):
spiritual things that I've done.
But family consolation as wellis just like the dynamic between
a husband and a wife and how tohonor that.
You know, just like there arecertain things like I know that
when he comes home from work,like just leave him alone for
half an hour, you know thattransition period, let him just
settle in, settle down, um, notcome at him, um, just honoring
(25:07):
that, the space that he's in,and also to nobody wants.
Nobody wants to be coached in acouple.
You know that's.
There's nothing sexy about that,you know like there's, just
like you know, there's nothinglike that, like so, if he asks
for advice, I'll and he does alot I'll offer it and you know,
(25:30):
and he values that advice frommy mom, from myself, my mom's
helped him personally and inbusiness and with relationships
and things like that helped himpersonally and in business and
with relationships and thingslike that.
So I think that's an importantfactor is, like I I've never
been one to exert my beliefsonto onto anyone.
So and like I mentioned before,like he's, he's got it going on
(25:51):
, he's pretty good.
I've known my husband since Iwas five years old, so I know
that's a gift.
Yeah it is a gift.
So I knew what I was gettingmyself into.
I know his family, I know hisdynamics, you know like where,
uh, my mom knows his family, mymom knew his dynamics, my dad,
everybody.
So that was that was great.
It's like I already knew, youknow what the family system was
(26:12):
like.
So yeah.
I mean it's it's had, it's hadchallenges, had challenges like
every single thing, but I wouldsay that for the most part, it's
been pretty amazing yeah,really good, and that's.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
You know, once, once I started like really getting
into this work and I I met mywife right after I did my first
constellation, about six monthsafter I did my first
constellation, and you know, youstart seeing the forest rather
than the trees in some way, andyou're like, oh well, this is,
(26:44):
oh, this is another patternthat's in my family and this is
a pattern that's in my family.
And then you know like, okay,well, let's, let's work on this
and I'll be like I'll work onthis and we'll, little by little
, and and it's just been, Iattribute the success of my
relationship with my wife andthe father that I am 100% to
this work.
I just can't, I can't attributeit to anything else.
(27:06):
It's not through, you know,just my innate skills.
Right, it's not just this.
You know that I just ended upbeing.
It's just the more that I workon myself, the more available I
am, the more present I am, themore I'm unentangled from from
old patterns and the more I canright size my relationships with
(27:28):
everything and my reactions tothings.
It's just such a a powerfultool that and I you know this
this podcast is literally aboutfamily consolation.
So this is what we talk about,but I'm like I'm a broken record
.
I'm like, well, I'm from, froma systemic perspective, this is
probably you know, and I can, Ican kind of come off like that,
you know, and be just like toconsolation and and I I struggle
(27:52):
with that.
I struggle with that, with thataspect because, know, when you
facilitate a constellation,you're doing the stuff and you
see the pattern over and overand over and over and over and
over and over again you, you, I,I, I know, I, I struggle with
having the empathy that peopleare at the beginning of the
journey, not at, not at, youknow, 16, 17 years later, you
(28:12):
know through throughout thisprocess.
So that's right, do you do youever um, with that type of, that
type of dynamic or kind ofunderstanding things or just
jumping into facilitating withthings, with people?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, a lot, definitely.
I think it's like a you know, um, um, that's definitely
something that I, that I do, youknow, uh, especially with if I
have friends who have um, aredivorced or you know things like
that, I'll, you know, remindthem to talk nicely about their
formers, you know, and you know,just to bring up certain things
(28:49):
about their spouse, theirformer spouse, that they see in
their kids.
You know those types of things,but usually it's pretty welcomed
and I've learned kind of whento shut my mouth and when to put
my two cents in, so that peopledon't hate me, that certain
(29:13):
behaviors, like if my, you know,my kids will tell me something
I'll be like, well, you know,like the reason why that
so-and-so is so-and-so, becauseobviously they have, you know,
issues with their this, you know, so, like I'm I'm able to have
like that different type of haton Um, but I've tried not to be
like overly, like overly worriedor anxious or scared, cause
(29:36):
then that creates a whole otherthing.
You know, like I can't beconcerned about every little
thing that comes out of my mouthor my husband's mouth, like in
fear that I'm causing likegenerational trauma, you know,
or like because I mean they haveto have something to tell their
therapist later on or theirfacilitator like they'll have to
have something to work on.
(29:57):
Otherwise it's not fun.
But but you know, for the mostpart I'm I'm pretty, I'm pretty
careful, but it does seep intomy life a lot because it's it's
so personal.
So, yeah, I mean it happens alot.
You know where I'm talking to afriend or I meet somebody.
I mean I don't know about you,but I'm always meeting strangers
(30:18):
and they're always telling metheir life story.
So you know, can't help it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
It's painful, how much it's like oddly painful,
how much people are juststarving for connection.
And if you're just open andyou're not entangled in your own
kind of crap, right you, youcould just open up your, your
perception a little bit.
And people are like I'mstarving for connection and I
think that's what at the end ofthe day, what that, what that
really is but kind of going to aprevious point, you were um.
(30:50):
You were talking about umparenting right.
It's like how how much thiswork has, or like, do you see,
do you see how this work has?
Has um gone into your kids?
Is that something?
That that you've, that you'veseen that connection?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
For sure, like I I mean my, both my kids are very
compassionate, loving beings and, um, you know, they recognize
the human suffering and humanemotions very well.
They're both like superconnected to that.
And with my parenting, you knowI just we talk about love a lot
, we talk about forgiveness, wetalk about you know just how we
(31:32):
can create our own reality, howdifferent the things that we
tell ourselves and the wordsthat we choose to use very
important and yeah, you knowthat comes into my parenting, I
think, every second of every daypretty much.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
And you mentioned something that was really
important to, I think, to have aconversation about, and, for
the listeners that don't knowanything about family
constellations, what are kind ofsome of the hidden dangers of
speaking ill of your formerpartner, like what's, what's
some of the dynamics that comethrough that well a former
partner, like if you, if you'remarried before and you have
(32:25):
children with that person, yourchildren are you, you know, part
you, part your former.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
So if you start bashing them, your child is
internalizing that.
They're internally saying likewell, then there's the who they
perceive to be the weaker parentand it causes just like
unnecessary stuff.
Like why do that?
So, even if you despise yourformer, it's important to find
(32:51):
things that can kind ofreconcile that.
You know like, oh my God, whenyou smile like that, it reminds
me so much of your dad.
Or, um, the way that you playthe piano is so much like your
mom.
It's such a beautiful gift thatyou inherited from her.
Those things bring that back toform of center and and love, so
(33:12):
that the child knows that theywere created in love.
I mean, you didn't hate yourformer when you had the kid, you
know most of the time, no so,but I think it's really
important as a as a parent, whenyou're, when you're going
through that, because whenyou're, when you have kids,
you're married for life prettymuch.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're in that system forlife, for forever, yeah.
Right Forever.
And that doesn't mean that youhave to have a relationship with
(33:40):
that person, but it you knowit's helpful that there are
gifts that are brought into themix and you can.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
you can wish them well for the sake of your
children, you know, in some ways.
But you know, maybe, whateverthe story is or whatever
happened, you can, you canreconcile and potentially make
your peace or not with that, butyou can say from a distance, I
wish that this person, I wishthis person well, because the
stronger that they are, thestronger our children will be.
(34:05):
And so many people say like mykids, my kids, these are my kids
.
Like there are children, thereare two people had to come
together.
Well, regardless of thosecircumstances, regardless of the
story, to bring life Right andto be able to give your children
that gift is a really powerfulmoment.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
It is because it is about the kids, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
At the end of the day , it really is about their,
because then they'll have todeal with things later on.
That, you know, just not toogreat.
We've seen it.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah.
So, masha, what do you see?
Where do you see this workgoing?
Where do you see theconstellations?
What do you see?
Speaker 2 (34:43):
you know the future of constellations and from your
perspective, I would love to seeit be so mainstream that it's
like, you know, it's likedrive-through constellations,
like that would be really cool,but just something that is, that
that resistance just dissipatesand that there are more and
more facilitators that do thiswork and that do it powerfully
(35:03):
and beautifully, and that thereare more opportunities to do
these large groups and workshops, because I think when people
come together, it's such a gift.
And I've seen theseconstellations, these breakout
rooms, these events wherethere's like a hundred people or
more, and I mean there was a.
There was a situation thathappened in Abu Dhabi that
affected me personally was, um,it was on half siblings you know
(35:28):
which which, if you think aboutlike, even the word half, it's
like, it's like the word X, youknow like it's like you're half
my sister, you're half my,you're my half brother, and it
was beautiful.
It was a beautiful unfoldingfor me to see, because I really
always considered myself an onlychild.
My parents had me.
I have these half siblings frommy father's former marriage
(35:50):
that were way older than me, youknow, that were more like aunts
and uncles, you know, and Imean we're talking like 20 years
older than me like just, youknow, a big, big age gap.
We didn't grow up together, webarely saw each other, and but
they still have to beacknowledged and they still have
to be honored as part of me.
So when I saw that being unfold, that was amazing and like
(36:12):
there were so many people thereand people kept stepping up and
being in this, like a lot ofpeople have the same dynamic of
not talking to their you knowtheir resentment towards their
half sibling or whatever it was,and it was beautiful, Like we
were all hugging each other.
And I was up.
I was up there like kind ofhelping my mom facilitate and
(36:34):
meanwhile, like I'm having thisbreakthrough moment, which was
it was cool, it was very cooland I was so grateful to it, so
I was able to to heal.
There's always something toheal, you know.
It's like always something.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, and there's such power in the integration of
of the ones that we don't evenknow that they're excluded, but
they have they, they, but thateveryone has their place in the
family system.
And I've seen your mom do thiswork a lot.
It's like this is my firstrelationship.
This is my second relationship.
This is my third relationship.
(37:11):
You are my fourth relationship.
Even people that you had itcould have been a high school
kind of sweetheart thing thatthat person has a place in your
story, right, rather than thanhaving this, this exclusion and
same thing comes with half orwith you know, siblings, that
they're, they're, they're partof your, your system.
(37:32):
They're part of your system.
Even the perpetrators in yoursystem have their place.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
That's so hard to reconcile and that's such a
difficult conversation to haveto say.
Even perpetrators have theirplace in the system.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, I mean that's why this work is definitely like
not mainstream yet, because Ithink until people can get to
that place, everybody's sodivided like good, bad, you know
, evil this like black and white.
you know it's just.
Life is not like that andthat's what one of the things
that Family Constellation hasshown me.
(38:05):
I mean, I've seen so manysituations where I used to judge
.
You know this type of behaviorand then here I am playing that
type of behavior on the fieldand you know this heart opening
experience of being aperpetrator.
And.
I'm not somebody whoperpetrates, yeah, and so being
(38:27):
playing that role and reallydiving in deep on the field of
being that, it's like you're awounded animal.
Yeah.
And once you see that compassion, that like nobody wants to be,
nobody wants to be bad, nobodywants to do that kind of, nobody
wants to hurt people.
So once I started to see thatlike my whole relationship with
(38:51):
the world changed, I mean itstill creeps in.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
I'm human, human, but yeah so, um masha, can you talk
about, from your guys's familyperspective, the importance of
the of the perpetrator dynamic?
Speaker 2 (39:04):
so um would you be referring to, like the holocaust
and that?
Speaker 1 (39:08):
kind of thing okay, yeah, so um your dad being a
world war ii vet right and yeah,so.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
So, yeah, I mean, there's so many layers and that.
So my mom is a Holocaustsurvivor.
My grandfather, my mom, was inMarseille, france, when all of
that was going down.
My grandfather, isidore, wasdeported to Auschwitz and my mom
, who was one years old at thetime, with my grandmother, they
were in hiding, and what wasgoing on during that time was my
(39:38):
father, because my parents were22 years apart.
So my dad was an Americansoldier World War II and he was,
you know, part of saving Europe.
And you know there were certainthings that happened that you
know like just war casualties,casualties of war.
The Americans dropped a bomb onmy great-grandmother's home,
(40:00):
wow, and my great-aunt waspregnant.
She was 19, newly married,pregnant and she died.
And my great-grandmothersuffered head injuries.
She was in the hospital for along time and did not know that
her daughter had passed awaybecause you know she would have
lost all will to live.
(40:22):
Her own husband was away atanother camp.
You know her son-in-law.
My grandfather, was in Auschwitz.
There was a lot going down.
So do we blame the Americans?
No way, you know, like theysaved us.
Do we blame the Americans?
No way, you know like theysaved us.
And you know, there's anotherperpetrator in the story, my
grandfather's best friend.
(40:43):
I don't know if he was his bestfriend.
He was calling in his debts,kind of they were going to go to
(41:04):
Switzerland.
So he was, you know, like, hey,you owe me this amount of money
, I'm looking to leave, whateverit is.
And at the time in Marseilleyou were getting money for
denouncing Jews, you know,telling the police where they
were hiding or if they wereleaving or where they were.
Because the south of France,over there in Marseille, was one
(41:26):
of the last places ever taken,actually during World War II.
So that's why my grandfatherwent to Auschwitz, like kind of
late in the game, like he wasthere I hate to say only nine
months, but he was there ninemonths whereas some other people
were there for a couple of game.
Like he was there I hate to sayonly nine months, but he was
there nine months where someother people were there for a
couple of years and he was youngand strong, and he wasn't young
and strong, he wasn't strongwhen he came back.
But his friend told on him andthey came and they got him.
(41:53):
So you know, not only did henot have to pay back my
grandfather, but he also gotrewarded.
So he was tried during theNuremberg trials and they were
going to sentence him to death.
And then after, like it wasjust like I don't know, there
was some politics involved andhe got away.
But I think like the next dayor two days later he was hit by
(42:13):
a truck crossing the street.
Yeah, so again you know theperpetrators.
What would I have done duringthat situation?
You know, you're in wartime.
I don't know what this man'sstruggles were.
I would like to think that hedidn't know that they were going
to take my grandfather andtorture him and do all the
(42:35):
things that they did, you know.
But I mean, when people areliving in war-like situations,
like I don't know.
I've never lived in a wartimesituation, so I don't know what
that could be like.
So you know, all my life I waslike, oh, asshole, you know.
But then I started to see thingsdifferently.
And then I had another, anothermoment when my father's father
(43:21):
left, when my father was nineyears old, he, just like my
father's father, told on him tohis mother and his father said
to him you'll never see me again.
My grandfather's name was Harryand my husband's name is Harry.
So obviously I had to makepeace around this and so all my
(43:51):
life I grew up hearing that thisHarry, my father's father, was
this bastard and my father neversaw him again.
But then, on the field, and Idid a constellation with Susie
Tucker, another amazing, amazingfacilitator, and this guy
played Harry, my grandfather andmy grandmother.
His wife was on the field, mygrandma, annie and she's pushing
(44:12):
me towards my grandfather thispoor guy who was playing my
grandfather, had tears runningdown his face, boogers running
down his nose.
I mean, this guy was a mess.
He's perfect stranger.
I did not want to hug him forthose two reasons first, because
he was, you know this, evilperson and second, because I'm
(44:32):
kind of a germaphobe, like itwas like such a and but all of a
sudden, something, somethingtook over me.
I hugged him and amazing that Iwas able to make peace with this
bastard, harry, my grandfather.
And now he has his rightfulplace behind me and I call on
him for resources because Idon't know.
I don't know what his dynamicwas, I don't know what it was
(44:54):
like for him growing up, I don'tknow what my grandma, annie,
was like.
I didn't know what it was likebeing during the world, the
depression, having lost a son,having a gambling problem, like
I don't know.
So it allows me to have someperspective of that and to not
judge and to bring in.
So yeah, so those are thestories that I tell, I tell my
(45:16):
children, I tell people all thetime, you know, and it it felt
better, felt better than hatinghim.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, yeah, and you know we kind of understanding
how much the excluded ones inthe family take all the oxygen
out of the room, right, and theyjust serve to perpetuate the
patterns rather than integratingthem and having that resource
behind us.
So you know, I know that, andyou have every reason in the
world to continue those patterns.
(45:45):
Right, it's like every you knowfrom world war to you know,
holocaust to you know, and thecomplexities of the victims and
the perpetrators on differentlevels, on multiple you know,
front and center and very personto person betrayals and then
systemic betrayals ofpersecutions, and you know, just
(46:05):
to really understand that we'reall, we're all both victims and
perpetrators, or we have thecapacity for both victimization
and being perpetrators.
And you know, the more woundedwe are, the more those things
get amplified.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Absolutely.
It's, so the more those thingsget amplified.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
It's so important to heal thosethings and have those
perpetrators that are in yourfamily take their rightful place
behind you, because you knowthey're there for a reason, and
I do owe him life.
You know, if he hadn't had mymy father then I wouldn't be
here today.
So, even though he wasn't themost ideal dad for my dad, he
(46:45):
was the best dad for him.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
Yeah, wow, yeah, and so you know going, going back a
little bit to your point aboutthe amplification of this work,
you don't?
You and I've talked aboutConstellation Con.
You know doing some, some bigconference on constellations.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Still have to do it.
It's still on my vision board.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, so you know, I, I'm, I'm all about it.
I think that this work reallyhas the, the potential to help
heal the world.
Right To, to be the, a forcethat can stop these patterns of
destruction.
And you know who moreappropriate than than your mom
and your dad going, you know,being the supporting, you know
(47:25):
ancestral powers to these thingsthat that are, that are trying
to help, the help prevent theseatrocities from happening again.
Right, it's just.
I think it's such a beautifulhomage to you.
Know, the fact that your momwas literally smuggled from
house to house during world warii as a baby?
Right, it's like, probably oneof the hardest things to do is
to smuggle a baby not to get,you know, found during
(47:47):
persecution.
Right, just just thecomplexities and the depths of
how much sacrifice andeverything that had to have to
happen to that full circle nowon a world stage in abu di,
having these conversations andbeing supported by an incredible
family and doing all thesethings, is just it's.
You can't make this stuff up,right?
Speaker 2 (48:05):
No, you can't.
My mom says that all the time.
You cannot make these sheets up.
That's what she says all thetime.
And you know also, like theamounts of German people that
come, I've seen so many Germanpeople come to our
constellations and they have somuch shame and they have so much
just ancestral guilt.
You know what some of theirancestors did.
(48:27):
And to be able to help themrelease that because that pain
certainly is not theirs, youknow like they weren't there,
and to see them give that backand to understand why their
ancestors did what they did.
Yeah.
I mean, we certainly can see ittoday, like you know, I can
certainly see today how peoplecan turn the other way and you
(48:50):
know, not want to get involved,and you know you think back then
and think, oh, people didn'tknow there was no social media.
We see things happening now inthe world Like there's social
media.
We see it yeah so, um, there'sobviously a lot of work to be
done there to help heal.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, this, this type of, you know, coming together,
community, loving one another,helping one another yeah, and
reconciling that we're allvictims and perpetrators, right,
and that in our lineage, if wego back far, we all come from
the same place 100%.
Right, and that you know we allhave been victims and
perpetrators and have repeatedpatterns.
(49:29):
And you know, the thing that'smost encouraging is that, little
by little, whatever healingmodality that you've been
involved with is making itbetter right, because if not, we
wouldn't be here.
If it stayed the same, wewouldn't be here, we wouldn't be
enjoying this incredibletechnology and talking about
this healing modality.
So honoring everything thatcame before is such an integral
(49:51):
part of this right, and the uglystuff too.
Like the ugly stuff and thebeautiful stuff.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
You have to embrace it all.
Yeah, you have to embrace itall.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, yeah, but with that, masha, I think this has
been a beautiful conversation.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I always love talking to you.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Likewise, Likewise.
So if you could just kind of,if we could let everybody how to
, how to get, let everybody knowhow to get ahold of you through
social media, what's the bestway to do that everybody know
how to get ahold of you throughsocial media.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
What's the best way to do that?
Sure, so my mom, I manage hersocial media.
It's Missing Link by Michelle.
I can give that to you and herwebsite is
michellewith2elvesblechnercom.
So I follow up with a lot ofthose different things and we're
very accessible, like you canfind us definitely just online
(50:41):
on social media, and I telleverybody.
My mom likes to book her ownappointments.
So anybody reaches out to me, Igive them my mom's cell phone
number.
She likes to book it becauseyou know she has her card games
and she has her things and shelikes to be.
She told me the other, she toldsomebody.
She's like yes, I'm a controlfreak, that's just that's who I
am.
So we book and and I'm startingto do more and more
(51:05):
constellations on my own, so youknow people can reach out there
too, on social media.
So always happy to help and mymom has something that's really
cool on mondays.
It's called urim and it's youcould pay but you don't have to.
It's like I think like $30 or$35, but it's a group coaching
and there's a lot of familyconsolation.
(51:25):
There's a meditation.
It's very casual.
You could pop in, you could popout, so we keep that Zoom link
always the same.
So this way everyone knows thatthey can find us and they can,
that we're there for them andthat there's.
You know they don't have toworry about financial
constraints or anything likethat.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
And that's usually Monday nights right.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
It's every Monday from 11 to 1 PM.
Speaker 1 (51:47):
Okay, from 11.
Am to 1 PM.
Okay, perfect.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, and do you guys, youcould leave your camera off.
You can just tune in.
You can.
You know she, if you send her alittle note on the chat saying
like I don't want to be calledout, she won't call you out.
Just you can.
You can leave if you need to doit while you're driving.
Just something to get you giveyou like a good boost for the
week.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
And and any big plans for the end of the year?
You guys, I heard your mom'scoming down in December.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yep.
So we're going to be the firstweek in December we're going to
be in Palm Beach for Date withDestiny.
Ok.
So we're going to be doinggroups there.
Anyone can join, they can comesee us and we have all that
information on our on ourwebsite and if you sign up for
our newsletter and then she'sgoing to be doing a lot of
different constellations inMiami with her community that
(52:35):
she loves so much, includes youwith her community that she
loves so much.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Includes you and I'm planning on having her back on,
so this would be our third, sothat would be really exciting to
have her on again.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
I love your interviews.
I mean, they're such a gift tome so that I can have them
forever.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, thank you, it's been a pleasure, I love your
mom so much and you guys are thebest.
I just really hold a specialplace with you guys.
We really hold a special placewith you guys.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
We love you so we need to do our Family
Constellation Con.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Yeah, we need to do that.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah.
I'm all in Work on it 2025.
2025, yeah.
That's our time.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, masha, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Thank you, john, really appreciate it, likewise
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
We'll talk soon.
Thanks for tuning in to theZulu One Podcast.
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