05. How Business, Spirituality, and Healing Intersect | Calvin Correli - ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today on the Zulu One podcast, I'm joined by Calvin
Corelli as we dive into familyconstellations, the unseen
systems guiding our lives, thefuture of AI and the need for
healing, even for figures likeElon Musk.
Together, we reflect on hiswork, his book and the deeper
connections between technology,humanity and the state of our
world.
Let's get started, calvin John.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
How are you, sir Phenomenal?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I feel like I'm talking to a kindred spirit.
You know, I kind of was doing alittle background on you and
saw this concept of spiritualentrepreneurship and I was just
you know very much resonatedwith me.
I know that you're the CEO of acompany, you've been doing this
for a long time, you'refamiliar with Family

(01:07):
Constellations, and so tell me alittle bit about how you came
across this work and how has itchanged things over the last
years.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
So Family Constellations is quite new to
me.
It's only about a month agothat I discovered Family
Constellations and it's crazy tome.
It's only about a month agothat I discovered Family
Constellations and it's crazy tome.
I've been.
I had my first spiritualteacher that I worked with in
2007.
I've done a lot of work andsomehow I've never come across

(01:40):
Family Constellations before andit blew my mind.
I was with, uh, with TonyRobbins and his group in Abu
Dhabi last month and MichelleBlechner was there, um, doing
some workshops on this and itjust it blew my mind away.
And so since then, since cominghome, I've read I'm on book
number six reading about familyconstellations.
I've had several sessions andI'm just, it just blows my mind,

(02:03):
cause it's, it's like there's.
I've been doing all of thiswork kind of on myself, not
recognizing that a bunch of thiswasn't mine at all.
It's my, is my.
My mom had a stillborn sonbefore my older brother and,

(02:24):
like a lot of it, is his orother people in the family.
So, yeah, it's been remarkable.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, that's, you know, I saw, I saw your book,
you know, and I saw your bookand I saw Michelle holding your
book and I'm like, oh man, thatwould be, it would be really
great to connect with withCalvin Michelle.
I love her dealer, she's ashe's a dear, dear friend and
you know, I'm just impressed bythe levels that she's been able
to amplify this message offamily consolations.

(02:52):
And you know what?
What happens?
A lot is like people areintuitively connected to the
system, right, people that havebeen working on themselves and
it sounds like you started withthat a long time ago.
What was the first kind ofiteration of getting into, you
know, dealing with your crapefforts.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
The technical term dealing with your crap.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, the technical working on your shit is the
technical, technical term, right, but I think so um, I think so
it started.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
2003 was a really great year and a really sucky
year for me, but it was like itwas.
I I I'm from denmark.
Uh, my girlfriend and I hadmoved to new york in 99 and then
moved back to denmark about ayear before 2002 and I'd started
my first company as an adultand it was going fantastic.
I won this startup of the yearaward and I did a conference

(03:53):
where people came to Copenhagenfrom MIT in Boston and big
institutions Greenpeace,international, heidelberg
University in Germany, all theseplaces and, and I got married
and I was like flat riding thishigh and and I won this award of
startup of the year and I waslike crushing it.

(04:16):
Then I invited some friends andand uh and smart people to an
advisory board meeting.
I just had them sounds fancy,you just had them come over to
my house.
We sat for three hours and andget, and they advised me on my
business.
And then, as we were wrappingup, one of them Thomas looked me
straight in the eyes and hesaid look, brother, we've been

(04:38):
here for three hours.
I still have no idea what youwant.
And he was like what do youmean?
What I want?
I just want to build a bigbusiness and be something right,
like wait, that's it, what'sone more could there be?
And then I was like wait, areyou allowed to like want, want
something in business?
Is that a thing?

(04:59):
I didn't know, and then it waslike I have no clue what the
hell I want.
I just knew that I needed toreach a certain level of success
in order to be not okay, inorder to be not worthless as a
human being, and it reallysparked this whole journey of

(05:21):
like I don't know what I want.
How does one know what theywant?
I can't feel myself.
How would I know what I want ifI can't feel anything?
And so get, got you know, atherapist, a psychotherapist, um
, for a little bit, anddiscovered various like forms of

(05:44):
body therapy and other kinds oftherapies.
And then, um, 2007 so fouryears later was when I I got a
spiritual teacher and started totake a coach education and
become a coach myself, realizing, oh, I might actually have some
skills in this department whichwas very foreign to me, like I
remember.
I remember when my one of mycoaches was like you should

(06:05):
become a coach.
I didn't think you'd be a greatcoach.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
I'm like what are you ?

Speaker 2 (06:08):
talking about, and I'm not a people person, I'm a
computer person, and and yeah,then it's just been been on and
on from there.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
So I know that you were.
You know you come from thecoder background.
How have seen that.
You know, through through thishealing work, that you start
seeing the code in the, inpeople and systems and um in
different dynamics yes, I, it'sa.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's a great question .
I do actually.
So coding software is all aboutlanguage, yeah, syntax, and
then when there's, if you wantedto do a certain thing, you have
to do it the right things inthe right order.
Or if there's a bug, if there'sa problem, you have to identify
what exactly the thing is.

(06:54):
And that there's a lot of um.
There's a lot of both art andscience to that.
There's a lot of creativity tothat.
One of my first career path wasactually I wanted to be a jazz
pianist and then when I decidedto drop that, yeah, there's this
huge, huge connection there,right, math and logic, music,
you know, software, all of it.

(07:16):
So when I dropped that,everybody was like, oh my God,
calvin's like such a shame.
You're so creative, like youknow, why do you want to do
software instead of music?
I'm like software is every bitas creative as music.
It really is so, so, and ourminds are also coded with

(07:36):
language.
Everything, at the end of theday, comes down to language,
which is made out of words whichare made out of sounds, which
is made out of words which aremade out of sounds, which are
made out of vibrations, likeit's all the same shit, right
yeah?
yeah we're gg13 here.
It's all the same shit, and soI I.
One of the monikers I use formyself is a mind debugger, so

(07:57):
I'll listen to what people sayand their language, using that
same lens of like.
Oh, that word that you usedright there is pointing to the
trap that you've made foryourself.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh geez, and how many times incredible people that we
come across are are masters ofcrafting the best traps for
themselves.
Right, oh, yes.
You know, we've got, you knowwe've called yeah right, it's
like we all, we all come acrossthese incredible people that are
very good at what they do andthen they're just

(08:32):
self-sabotaging out of loyaltiesto their family system or
whatever that looks like I'vejust finished, like a few weeks
ago, finished reading, listeningto the biography of elon musk
yeah, the big one by walterisaacson.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Have you read that?

Speaker 1 (08:46):
so I I'm not sure if the same one, it's the.
I read the first one that theydid, the one that they talk
about his, uh, great-grandfather, his grandfather flying the
first solo from south africa toaustralia with his wife and I'm
like it's continue.
I want to hear your your takeon this.
This is interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
I mean he's basically disowned his father at this
point and has this whole thingwith his father where, like,
where he's, he's, you know allthe stories of his father like
berating him as a kid and allthat stuff.
Right, I'm just like, come, comeon, elon, let's do some family,

(09:28):
yeah when you're talking aboutsomeone who's really, really
smart and then so freaking,tormented right, yeah, I think
it's something that a lot ofpeople who are very driven
whether it's artists or orentrepreneurs, or scientists,
whatever they have this likeinnate drive from from pain
right from, and they're they'reso afraid that if I heal that

(09:49):
pain, will I still have thedrive to produce.
Like, will I lose my edge?
So, like, better not look atthat shit.
And I get it because, like youmight lose your drive right or
you might get another, a wholeother gear.
Now you get to create from loveinstead of from from fear, from
you're going, you're, you're,you're sharing your creative

(10:09):
generosity versus you're tryingto, like, fix something that you
think is broken yeah, and theand the um.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You know that driving force can go, or you know like
can go sideways very quickly,right?
If that's the same person thathas that drive towards, because
their trauma circumstances ortheir trauma code points towards
something that's constructiveand innovation, the same thing
can point towards destruction,and that you have this profound

(10:36):
force of destroying yourself ordestroying everything in your
path, that it's based on thesame kind of mechanism to point,
just point it at the wrongplace, right?

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yes, yeah, and you see that with Elon, yeah, he
burns people out and, and youknow, he creates all kinds of
problems for himself that hethen needs to go fix.
You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
It works out, but you know you don't have to do that.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
And it's ineffective, and it's, it's ineffective,
right.
And who am I to say that theguy that's worth I don't know
$300 billion is on the wrongtrack.
I mean, yeah, the proof is inthe pudding, but so many people
try to emulate that thing andfail throughout the process
because they don't have thesecret ingredient of being able
to do it.
It's, in some capacity,unsustainable and

(11:23):
extraordinarily inefficient Ifsomebody that's so
efficiency-driven I don't likethe word efficiency, I like the
word effective.
It's like one shot, one kill,being as effective as possible.
The way to become as effectiveas possible is through dealing
with your trauma and becomingthat flow state where you can
create an incredible life butalso a credible abundance in all

(11:48):
intertwined and going towardsthe purpose of making the, the
the world, a better place, right.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
And again, at the end of the day, why are we doing
all this?
Yeah, exactly, we're doing itbecause we want to feel good, we
want to feel something.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, tell me a little bit about someplera and
how your spiritual journey hasinfluenced working as a CEO.
Hi, I'm John from the Zulu OnePodcast.
If you like what you're hearingand it resonates with you,
please consider becoming amonthly supporter.
The link is below.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
Thanks, so the Simplera started because in 2008
, I finally had a moment where Ianswered the question of what
is it that I really want to dohere?
What is it I want for my life?
And the answer that came to mewas integrating spirituality and
entrepreneurship, and that'sbeen my North Star since 2008.

(12:40):
And then, okay, great, how do Ido that?
What does that look like?
Well, part of it is is meworking with clients you know
with as a coach on doing that.
And then, as I got into that, Iwas like, okay, how do I get
started with that?
And online marketing.
So I discovered online marketingand online courses and that
whole world, and then I neededsoftware for myself, for my own

(13:02):
business, and so I startedbuilding Simplero and um, and
then that grew over time and sohere we are, 15 years later and
the software is still around thecoach.
I'm still doing the coachingand loving it.
I actually stopped doingcoaching for many years and and
got back into it a few years agoand I love doing both and using
my own software to run my myown own business.

(13:23):
And so, yeah, simplera isreally that software that does
everything that you need foryour coaching or course or kind
of creator business like fromfrom websites and funnels and
charging people money anddelivering content to them and
making sure people have accessto what they need to have access
and transcribing your videosand AI bots with like all of the

(13:47):
things, yeah, in one place.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, you know, one of the things that one of the
phenomenons that happens in thefamily consolation world is that
you know they're they'reterrible marketers Right.
They have this incredible giftof being able to connect to the
systemic field and you know thisknowing field and they're just
terrible at you know, brandingand marketing and doing kind of
like the day to day minutia,kind of things, right.
So it's very rare to seesomebody that has the

(14:12):
combination of the spiritualitywith the entrepreneurship, the
structure, to be able to do that.
So when I, when I when Istarted researching you, I was
like, oh, this guy totally getsit.
Like, oh, this guy totally getsit.
And you know, I wanted to.

(14:33):
One of the reasons why I wantedto have that conversation is to
say, you know, it's like it's.
We need more entrepreneurs thatare spiritually guided right,
that have the ability to tapinto that side of us, because
it's a huge part of the equationthat we're not considering.
Is that human potential aspectthat we're not, that we're not
considering?
Is that human potential aspect,how do you integrate?
How do you integrate kind ofthe leadership into the
spirituality, into the personal,when so many people try to keep

(14:54):
that separate?
How do you navigate that, thatspace?

Speaker 2 (14:57):
I love what you said about the more spiritual
entrepreneurs, because that wasone of the insights as well.
I can coach only so many peoplepeople but if I can create the
platform and make the make theecosystem that allows other
people to do that work, we canreach many more people that way,
and so that's part of themission of, as well as just

(15:17):
support the all the teachers outthere who are doing amazing
work so they can reach moreclients more effectively.
They can share that gift thatthey have without burning out
from all the minutiae of it orfrom just poor business models
or business strategies.
So it's not we don't.
We do more than just thesoftware we also like as a

(15:37):
member of you get at.
You get coaching and trainingon how to be a better coach and
build your business better, andall of that stuff as well.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh, wow Jeez.
I mean, yeah, that's a, that,that's a powerful tool for you
know, especially for thiscommunity, to be able to do that
as this.
It's like if you're givingsomebody the platform to do it,
you know it's, it becomes, itamplifies that voice because you
know, you see, thesefacilitators that you know,
michelle, is a very rare casethat she, the majority of the
facilitators I had known over,you know, over all these years

(16:13):
is that they're just like doingthese small workshops in
communities and doing, andthat's kind of the thing, right,
they're not getting theexposure that Michelle has
gotten, which is incredible,that Tony and Sage have gotten.
You know, I've put thistogether and showing it to
people like you, you know, yeah,yeah, I'm so grateful that they
did that.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yes, yeah.
And yeah, I was talking to herabout it.
She was like how did you, howdid you, how did you get on
Tony's stage?
And she's like I have no idea,it just kind of happened.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
So that that story is incredible.
That story it's just like itjust was happenstance and it was
.
You know when.
When, what they say about luck,you know when, when preparation
meets opportunity, it's like itjust kind of clicked and and it
was supposed to happen toanswer your question about
leadership and spirituality.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Um, for me, I don't.
I don't ever make anyonebelieve what I believe right and
and everybody has their ownspirituality, some people,
people's spiritualities.
There is no spirituality.
One of my, one of my sayings isspirituality, done right is
just reality.
Over time, as that shifts andwe open the lens, we're going to

(17:28):
see that science proveseverything that you know, we
know to be true spiritually andthe things that that, that like
the things that are kind ofhokey, like there's, like
there's definitely in this worldrealm of spirituality.
There's stuff that's hokey,that's make-believe, that's
fantasy, and I think that'sgoing to fall away so that we
can get to the things that arereal.
Um, but right now we're justignoring that from a scientific

(17:49):
viewpoint, generally speaking,and I think that's that's bound
to change in the next I don'tknow decade or two or something
like time is is ripe for thatchange to happen that's.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
That's a.
That's a super interestingpoint.
I'm curious to find out whatyour thoughts are.
What's going to happen withthis advent of AI and
spirituality?
What's, how do you think thosetwo worlds are going to converge
?

Speaker 2 (18:12):
I don't know.
It's very interesting, um causeit's like well, I mean, you
know what?
What is spirituality?
One of the one of the things,one of the books that inspired
me so much, like 15 years ago.
It's a book calledextraordinary knowing okay and
um highly recommend it.

(18:33):
Essentially, the story is use of.
She is a stanford phdpsychologist.
She has this experience whereshe loses an object uh, it's a
harp but her daughter plays aharp.
She loses the object.
This random not random, butthis guy who lives several
thousand miles away,pre-internet, he, he gets a map

(18:54):
of where she lives and he's likethe, the harp is in this house
and it turns out it was.
And he's like how, what?
How do you know?
Like that's, you's impossiblegiven our traditional scientific
understanding.
And so she dedicated the restof her life to studying this,
created a group of 60 otherscientists, well-renowned people

(19:14):
, to study paranormal phenomenaand try to get at a science of
those phenomena.
And one of the things, one ofthe conclusions that I drew from
it is that everything exists ona continuum, from 100%
certainty to 100% uncertainty.

(19:35):
And there's this continuum thatwe can live within.
And the moment we insist on 100%certainty, certainty, we
collapse the field ofpotentiality and we live in a
fixed dead 3d world, yeah, andso if you apply science in a way
that it has to be certain, thenyou exclude everything.

(19:57):
That's not that which is thevast majority of life, yeah, and
so we have to address it likethe spiritual world, which is
also what we get access tothrough our subconscious mind,
operates in probabilities, andso we have to operate at that
realm to be open to those things.
So I think that's that's thedirection that I see.

(20:19):
Would you know, see scienceeventually moving in, because
it's just inevitable that it hasto.
And yeah, and I think that'sthat's how we start to link
things now in.
In terms of the question of ai,it's interesting because
because I I'm reading a bookright now thomas campbell called

(20:40):
my big toe.
I don't know if you've comeacross that no, I haven't I
haven't, oh, as in theory ofeverything, but also okay
um, and I'm only a third of theway through.
But essentially the argumenthe's making is like what, if we
live inside, like it'sessentially like we live inside
of an illusion and like you,imagine this, the field, field

(21:03):
of consciousness, being anamorphous to our for our intents
and purposes, infinite field.
But it doesn't have to actuallybe infinite.
But now you introduce a clockof some sort that just has a
cycle and it clicks, and thenthe elements within this can
change state, and then theelements within this can change

(21:25):
state and essentially, like nowyou have, like that's like I
said, I'm a third way in, so I'mnot sure this is going to play
out exactly, but what I'mstarting to get is like he's
essentially describing howcomputers work there's a clock
and it's binary and all of that,and so now, like AI can model
all of that.
So the question is is thatconscious?

(21:47):
I would, I would.
My inclination would be to saywell, there is something it's
called a soul, so somethingthat's, you know, life itself,
that these machines can neverhave.
They tend to replicate more ofthe rational mind, not the full
being that we are.
We're so much more than therational mind If the rational

(22:10):
mind is like one tiny speck.
All of this is who we are andwe pretend like we're tiny,
we're that little speck, andthen we compare ourselves
against an AI who's much betterat that stuff than we are in
some respects, and we're like,oh my god, can humans or nothing
.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
I think it's a very limited view of humanity yeah,
that's um, you know, I've I'vehad, um, I'm in technology,
right, I run a technologycompany, right, cyber security
technology company and and I seethat there's so many
similarities between technologyas a manifestation of that
subconscious in some way, right,right, it's like cloud

(22:47):
computing is almost, you know,the relationship of the
workstation and the soul, right,and the cloud is the
workstation soul.
In some capacity you can pushthat experience to all of them
at the same time.
And you know there was LexFriedman was talking about how
these extraordinarily complexsystems come out of these very

(23:07):
simple rules, right, and that,and that in some way, you know
we are these large systems and Ithink constellations taps into
those, that systemicintelligence and in a very
repeatable, measurable, you know, trainable way that you can say
, out of this, out of this etheror whatever morphogenetic
resonance, you know trainableway that you can say, out of
this, out of this ether orwhatever morphogenetic resonance

(23:28):
, um, you know what, uh, davidbohm call.
You know, like david bohm'stheories of patterns and waves,
like there's it's, we'restarting to approach where I
think the, the, you know ai, insome capacity, will start seeing
the forest for the trees.
They'll start taking away thestuff that doesn't make sense
and there's going to be likethis is all true because it

(23:50):
repeats in every single pattern,right that there's like an uh,
you know we're starting to getinto the objective truth and
what I think is like it's truebecause it happens often, it
happens all the time, that thatthe the fact itself, that it's
observable is because it's whyit's true, and I see that in,
like the avon of ai, in somecapacity, is going to start

(24:12):
seeing where everything you know, the venn diagram covers over
everything and where the truthlies because it it presents
itself in every single systemokay, I'm not sure I'm fully
following here.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
What is it that presents itself in every single
system?

Speaker 1 (24:24):
so, um, you know, when you start seeing, you know
there's these, when you startseeing these profound truths
that they represent and theyfollow these patterns, right.
So there's patterns that happenin family systems, right, like
the excluded one gets the.
You know, if somebody isexcluded, all the energy in the
system goes to the excluded one.

(24:44):
Like that's a pattern becauseit happens in every single
system.
So it talks about there'salmost an intrinsic math or
physics to these probabilistictheories that happen in systems
and my thought is that thesesame things happen in every

(25:07):
system.
And so when large data modelspowered by AI will be like, this
happens in this probabilistic,in this probabilistic fashion,
over and over and, over and overagain.
So it means intrinsically, it'strue.
Does that make sense what I'msaying?

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I guess.
So it happens over and overagain and therefore it's true
I'm thinking about.
That reminds me of what rupertsheldrake talks about, with like
habits of nature versus laws ofnature.
Is that a habit is a law?
We don't really know, but wesee it happening again and again
.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
right, yeah, exactly and and they like solidify and
I'm a huge fan of sheldrake.
I'm you know I know in in thescientific community.
He's a bit of a of a, you know,flying outside of the bounds,
but you know I think thatthere's some.
He's shaking the paradigm, right, he's shaking the paradigm,
exactly, exactly.
I'm just, I'm, I'm I've had hadthe privilege of of

(26:06):
interviewing his wife and I'mjust like, I'm such a fan of
this morphogenetic resonance ofthese, these fields that you
know, bert Hellinger and Rupertsheldrake were friends because,
um yeah, they were friendsbecause morphogenetic fields
explain the phenomenon thathappens in the family
constellations yeah, yeah,that's the crazy thing, right.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
So, so when you, when you tap in to these and,
whether in person or over zoom,you tap into some, some family
members, some energy, and likeall of a sudden, like I'm just
bawling my eyes out, I'm cryingmy eyes out and it's like what
is that and can?
Will ai ever do that?
Will ai have like birth trauma?

Speaker 1 (26:50):
I don't know.
That's a that's a greatquestion, but I think we're
finding out what the that thereis like the lack of evidence
will be the evidence in somecapacity, that the fact that ai
cannot connect to themorphogenetic field is the fact
that you're like, oh well, we'llnever become sentient, because
it will just be an amplificationof our unless it it, you know,

(27:12):
creates a like parasiticrelationship where we are, its
connection to the morphogeneticfield.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (27:19):
yeah, or maybe like literally, some people are like
harari, you, you.
Well, harari, I forgot his name.
Harari, you know what I'mtalking about.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Like, uh, johan harari?

Speaker 2 (27:29):
yeah, I think is that his name I'm not sure I think
one of those guys that are thatare like oh, it's all just an
algorithm, like I'm an algorithm, my dog's an algorithm, it's
all just algorithms.
I'm like we're like, no, likesoul, heart, there's something
more right um which, which.
But he, he might be right thatwhen ai gets sophisticated

(27:51):
enough, like that'sindistinguishable, for so I
don't know, we'll find.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
I don't think so, but yeah we don't know, that's
going to be a good, a great, Imean.
That is the question, right.
It's like where doesconsciousness come from?
And I think we're inchingcloser and closer with these, um
phenomenological processes, tobe like, hey, man, there's
something that happens when youtap into this field where people
it's, it's time is not a factor, um, distance is not a factor,

(28:20):
it's there, there's somenon-locality properties to it,
because you can be on a zoom anda constellation and somebody
can be in Australia having animmediate reaction to the words
that are being said, when youknow there's, there's, there's
vast distances between thepeople and you could never
you've never met this person andthey're saying something that
your grandmother would have saidand it's a perfect

(28:41):
representation of the traumadynamics in your family system.
It's like I don't know, man, butthis, there's something here
that is extraordinarily spooky,right, yeah, I love that you
have this, you know, kind ofengineering mind, and you're
looking at this from kind of avery similar perspective, that
where I'm at Right.
It's like I was a aircraftmechanic in the military.

(29:03):
So I was like you know, I'mvery systems oriented.
I'm like, ok, trying tounderstand systems, and then I
fell into this work and I'm like, oh, there's, there's some,
there's some probabilistic,maybe physics in this thing
where you can start seeing like,okay, so if we can figure this
out, you can figure out likeunresolved trauma loads and
systems and in cultures and in afamily.

(29:24):
It's like, do you have aunresolved trauma index of a 10
versus a two and what does thatlook like for the success of the
organization or the success ofthe family that's not held back
by these patterns that keep themin a in a ineffective loop?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And that to me, like the, theleadership and spirituality, I
think the core of it is whatsome people call the law of the
lid.
For me is simply like the morethat I like I become the lid on
my organization as the leader,yes, yeah, and the more that I

(30:00):
evolve myself and I clear theseenergetic entanglements or
whatever it is that I do, themore I'm going to be effective
as a leader and then, like the,the team is going to very
quickly resonate with that Like.
Like, my shifts are going toinstantly cause some shifts on
an an energetic level in theorganization.

(30:22):
Some people might, might, youknow select themselves out.
Other people are going to bedrawn more in right, there's
definitely the whole systemicpiece of the organization as
well that you can work with.
Even without that, just you as aleader doing that work like
makes a huge difference I hadwhen I realized, um, one of the

(30:47):
things I discovered fairly earlyon, like 15, 16 years ago, was
that I was born strangled in myown umbilical cord.
So, starting with a near-deathexperience and then put in an
incubator for two weeks, whichis a break in bond with mom,
yeah, um, and I just learned,actually it's crazy.
On the trip to to uh, abu dhabi, where I was to meet michelle,

(31:12):
I called my mom and then shesaid remember, a while back you
asked me whether I wanted you no.
And I was like actually I don'tremember that, but tell me more.
And she's like yeah, I wasn'ttelling you the truth.
The truth is that I didn't wantyou.
I felt like you're coming tooclose to your brother.
Your brother was just ninemonths old and I just found out

(31:32):
I was pregnant again and it wastoo close, and so I was thinking
about having an abortion.
But then I talked to my sisterand she said no, you're crazy.
You don't know if you'll beable to get pregnant again.
You got to have this baby andshe did and she's obviously
happy that she did and I'm happythat I did.
And it wasn't like but that's,it wasn't like a big deal.

(31:53):
In that way there's, there'sthat imprint in me that came to
me in like at some point I waslike, huh, why do I have that,
you know?
And before that, well, and thenit's funny that she didn't want
me.
And then they come outpractically dead.
It's like, yeah, all right, gotthe message, mom, you know, oh
yeah, yeah and then, 15 yearsbefore that, I was at a, at a

(32:18):
workshop where they did thisanger release exercise which was
freaking, phenomenal.
I loved it.
It's like rylas up for 10minutes dynamic breathing stuff,
and then like all right,unleash and then I just all this
stuff came out of me that Ilike this whole new voice that I
didn't know that I had.
It was so powerful, so profound.
And then, after the whole thingkind of settled down, I got

(32:41):
this vision in front of my eyesof a birth scene and everybody
was panicking and something waswrong.
And so I asked my mom whathappened at my birth, and that's
when she told me I wasstrangled in my umbilical cord
and I was like, oh crap, thatmakes sense.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
What incredible insight.
Yeah, yeah, what incredibleinsight.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
And then I worked with a former Navy SEAL who
turned coach, organization,whatever, but one of his core
things was identifying your coretrauma.
There's like one trauma thatprecedes all the others and that
kind of shapes the way thatyour brain looks at the world,
cause it's like great, I didsomething, it worked, we

(33:28):
survived.
Now let's look out for othersimilar situations.
So like I can apply that samestrategy and you know it works
because you're still alive, butit might not be that helpful
anymore.
And so for me what heidentified was that core trauma.
Now, the funny thing is that hehad the same trauma himself.
He had the same birth trauma,and so what he told me was that

(33:52):
he made, he realized that it's anear-death experience, and so
you start life, and I had tohave no memory of this.
But you start life with you knowthe tunnel and the light and
the other side, and do you wantto go there.
And then you're like I don'tknow.
I was like do you go back inhere?
It's like wet and cold and damn, or do I stay there?

(34:17):
And and so it tends to createthe split inside where you're
kind of half there, half notthere, and I was like once he
said that I was like holy shit,that's my entire life, you know,
in relationships uh, leaving myfamily, my ex-wife and my kids,
uh.
And we talked about business asan entrepreneur, as a ceo, I

(34:39):
was constantly looking can Ihire someone else to be the ceo?
Can I hire a ceo or a presidentor something like like I don't
know if I want to be there, likeI was always half in, half out,
and so having that awareness oh, that's what I doing just
allowed me to make that decision.
Be like no, I'm going to be allin here.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh, wow, I mean, talk about, you know, one, one
pattern manifesting in allaspects of life, like just what
a gift to be able to to dealwith that and, you know, to be
able to identify that coretrauma.
And that's that's the thingthat holds.
It holds us back from potentialRight, that becoming the best
version of ourselves, to fullystepping into our power.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And seeing that there's nothinglike everything happened
perfectly, and now having theawareness of what, what it was,
what those patterns were, I getto have choice in what I do with
it and how I lead my life.
I don't need to be trapped inthat anymore.
And it grew, it made me theperson that I am today.
I wouldn't be the person I amhad I not had all these
experiences.
Wow.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Jeez.
So what made you want to, youknow, kind of amplify this,
Because this could be somethingthat you could easily keep to
yourself and be like, hey, Idon't want to.
You know, this is kind of myprocess and be very private
about it.
What's what in your life kindof said, hey, I'm going to
amplify this voice to say I want, I need to do this, to talk
about this as many people aspossible.
Hi, I'm John Zulu.

(36:05):
One is more than just a podcast.
It's a mission to bring healingto families and communities.
By becoming a supporter onBuzzsprout, you make this
mission possible.
Click the link in thedescription and join us, and
thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
When I realized that my life is about integrating
spirituality andentrepreneurship.
A great a big part of that isto be that role model, do that
myself and share my journey, myexperience, and so I'm sharing.
I've shared everything thatI've done.
I'm sharing generously ofeverything I've done on my
journey to get to where I am andI'll continue to do that.

(36:42):
And so when I discovered FamilyConstellations and, like I said
, it just blew my mind and I'mlike obsessed with it now I'm
like hell, yeah, Like I want Iwould love for everybody to know
about this because it's such apowerful tool.
I would love for everybody toknow about this because it's
such a powerful tool.
It's like I've spent agesworking on like I've one of my

(37:02):
core patterns have been feelingworthless, feeling like I.
I'm so worthless that Ishouldn't even take up space,
because that is me taking spacefrom other people.
I'm so worthless, I shouldn'tbe breathing the air because I'm
breathing other people's airand I need to like.
Initially, I was like I need tobe a Bill Gates, steve Jobs

(37:24):
level, multi billionaire successby 30.
Or I should just go kill myselfand not exist.
Like that was the programming.
I'm like where the hell doesthat come from?
And so I've done a lot of workon that over the years.
But then with FamilyConstellations, I'm like what if
it's not freaking mine?
What if it's just because myolder brother was dead and I was

(37:47):
like, oh, because you died Ishouldn't live, you know, and
and like as I've been connectingwith him and taking him in, I
get so emotional.
I'm like I'm so grateful that Ihave that older brother, even
if he's not alive.
You know, like when I thinkabout the older brother that I

(38:08):
do have that's alive, like theway that I know he loves me so
deeply, he always has my back.
When I was in school and wasbullied and it was unsafe for me
to go anywhere because I wouldget beat up, and like I knew
that if he was there, if Icalled on him, he would always
have my back.
And it's such a profound lovethat you can have with your

(38:31):
siblings and just knowing thatthere's another soul there.
Even if he's not in a physicalbody, he's still my brother,
he's still my sibling.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
So powerful.
So in the birth order, have youdone the work of where you are
in the birth order as well, orin the pregnancy order?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So maybe you tell me so I have an older sister from
my father's first marriage.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
She's number one, yeah.
Older sister from my father'sfirst marriage Okay, she's
number one, yeah.
And then the stillborn would benumber two and my brother would
be number three and I'm numberfour.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yeah, that's just being in your falling into your
position in the family andknowing where you are in that
order is just like it's such a,it's so tender and such a
beautiful part of because wehave the stories like oh, I'm
the first one, or I'm the secondone, or I'm the third one or
whatever that is, and we carrythose things out of loyalty to
the ones that didn't make itright, that didn't weren't born,

(39:25):
that weren't able to, and theyand just honoring their position
in the family is just such alike a tender thing to be able
to process and it's such, soempowering, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to see my parents.
My dad's 89th birthday iscoming up next month.
I'm going to go there to seehim over in Denmark, and the day
after I'm going to sit downwith my parents and interview
them on camera, with justgetting all the stories of the
family that they have.
So I have that documented forme and for my kids.
You know, just know, what arewhat?

(40:00):
What actually did happen?
You don't need to know right,but it's it helps to know.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Yeah, it does.
It does it fills in the blanksof a lot, of, a lot of stories,
especially for for kids.
You know to, to be able to, to,to do that and then create the
context of what that is.
So tell me, tell me a littlebit of how.
How many kids do you have andhow has this affected you know,
your relationship with your kids.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I have two kids, um, a boy that's 17 and a daughter
that's 19.
And, um, well, it's affected meprofoundly.
So we are I'm divorced fromtheir mother.
She lives in Denmark, and theylive in Denmark with their mom.
I live in New York city, and sowe've and they were three and
six when we split, when we brokeup, and so I haven't been

(40:46):
living with them that whole time, and the and the, the
relationship with their, withtheir mother, has been fraught,
has been fraught, and, and so Ihaven't seen them since April.
We're now in November, so we'renot.

(41:08):
There's some communication, butvery little, and so, but what
happened with FamilyConstellations?
For me was it?
It took it into my heart in awhole other way than anything
else.
So, specifically with Michelle,she did this, this breakout
session where some other guy wasup on stage talking he was the
client, as they call it, yeahand he was talking about his

(41:29):
older half brother, who hewanted to have a relationship
with.
But his brother had thisresentment towards him because
he felt like he had taken hisdad away from him.
And so I volunteer to come upthere and represent someone.
I'm thinking I'm going to berepresenting the dad, but
instead I end up representingthe brother.

(41:50):
As I was standing there, all ofa sudden I was.
I was.
I started crying, crying and Igot so touched and I realized
this is how my son feels.
It's not that I have anotherchild, but his someone,
something took his, whether it'shis, my wife or his or the

(42:13):
country or whatever it was, butsomething took his father away
from him and he feels betrayedand let down and I was like I
get it, son.
I'm so sorry, it breaks my heart.
It breaks my heart, and thesame with my daughter, of course
.
But this was like this was.
I was specifically playing thebrother, so I was really
connecting with my son there andI was just like oh god, and

(42:35):
where, a couple months ago wehad a thing where he said he
said you're not my dad.
And it was the first time he'dsaid that.
I was like what the fuck areyou talking about?
Like it really shocked me and Iwasn't.
I'm not proud of her how Iresponded, but I was like I
started arguing with him, likeI'm like I'm your fucking dad

(42:56):
and like anyone who tells youotherwise is is, you know, not
right and all of that which is,I know, is not helpful.
But I got emotional.
I get how I get you know, Ifeel you.
You know, I feel you in a wholeother way.
And then when I think about myex-wife, I know her story, I

(43:17):
know her family story and itbreaks my heart, the pain that
she's been through over breakingit, over the breakup.
I was the one that left and itwas her biggest fear and I get
it and I, and for me, my father,you know, I said I, I have a
half sister, my father divorced,my brother divorced, you know.

(43:41):
So both my brother and I havebeen very loyal to our dads or
our dad, and just seeing it's sohumbling to see how this plays
out, and it's not personal.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, it's just personal.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
It's just these patterns.
We're energetic.
These energies were stuck inuntil we change it yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
And what a gift, now that you know you have the tools
to do it differently.
Right that now you can say like, oh yeah, now we can create
this, now through work, and youknow it's, it's, it's obvious
that you're extraordinarilycommitted to this healing and
self-growth.
It's like now you have thispower and the language to be

(44:25):
able to reconcile and breakthose patterns right For them.
Right that they can say I nolonger have to be loyal to my
dad and my grandfather and thatgenerational trauma and I can
step into life fully withoutcarrying the burdens that, that
that came from our legacy yeahyou know, and that's as parents,
that's the kind of, that's themain goal.

(44:45):
Right is to say, hey, you knowyou can, you can make your
decisions and screw up your lifehowever you want to do it, but
it won't be my stuff, right?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:53):
and for the exercise, too, of of picturing, you know,
as we did in the meditationbeginning, my father behind me
and my mother, all my ancestors,and that like imagining a
string connecting my heart totheir hearts and then to my
children's hearts, and justknowing that that string of love

(45:13):
is intact no matter what, nomatter what happens.
That love is there, it's alwaysavailable to me from my
ancestors, it's always availableto them, to my children, from
me and from their mother.
Recognizing the love that bothof us feel for our kids and

(45:37):
seeing what amazing things like.
Focusing also with my ex-wife,on the amazing love that we had
together and all the beautifulexperiences that we shared and
the the pain that things didn'twork out that we'd both the way
we'd both wish that they wouldand that was how that was.

(45:58):
And but we can still cherishand love everything that we had
and the kids that we made werebeautiful, amazing children, you
know it's just the whole.
Inside of me, everything shiftedfrom this and on the outside
world, I'm, I'm.
I know in my heart that thatkind of shift won't happen

(46:18):
inside of me without itimpacting them.
The kind of the quote, unquoteevidence is not there in the 3d
world at this point, but it, uh,it will happen, and if it don't
, it's, it's all fine, you know.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, it's, you know, they.
They say in the consolationworld is that movements happen
between six months and up to twoyears after a consolation
happens.
Right, it's like and, and whatends up happening is like
there's this dissolution of oldpatterns, like it.
Just they just stop being there.
Right, like you know, in the,in the, in the tech world, you
don't know if you really fixsomething.
It's the absence of the problemthat makes you, you know, find

(46:53):
out that you actually fix itright, like well, that worked
right.
You know, you know, find outthat you actually fixed it Right
, like well, that worked right.
You know you did something andyou made it.
You made like four to fivechanges and one of the things
was the thing that actuallyfixed it.
So, you know this, this familyconstellation work is a lot like
that that you're like, oh okay,so something I did there, the
problem's not happening anymore.
So we obviously fixed it in oneway.

(47:14):
You know, and and and just,it's just such a such an
incredible gift, and it's suchan incredible gift that you can
give your kids is to work onyour own shit.
Right, it's like, the more youwork on your shit, the bigger
the gift is for your children,yeah, yeah.
So tell me a little bit aboutthe book.
You know, I, um, I'm I'm justvery intrigued about about the

(47:35):
book, that, that that you wrote,it's like I love the division
of.
You know, yeah, we can do this.
I'm very intrigued about thisbook.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah Well, so it's about politics, mainly US, but
also it applies to most of theWestern world and it's like it's
applying this spiritual lens,if you will, to politics.
So it's both the spiritual lensand also the logic lens, right.

(48:07):
So it's left brain, right brain, and it's looking at what I
wrote it leading up to theelection, so I didn't know which
way the election was going togo at that time.
Wrote it leading up to theelection, so I didn't know which
way the election was going togo at that time.
Um, but it essentially explainsthe moment that we're in and
explains what happened duringthe election.
So neat it no matter which sideyou're on.

(48:27):
It's like if you're, if you're ademocrat supporter, kamala
supporter, whatever, it willexplain why your crazy uncle
loves trump, right, yeah, trumpsupporter.
It'll explain you know why, whypeople hate you.
I think people kind of knowthat if they're trump supporters
, they kind of have a sense ofbut.
But it'll give a a.
It's like a 30-year plan forhow do we change things?

(48:53):
And the vision is is like muchsmaller, much more efficient
government, essentially like andand but.
What politics is downstreamfrom culture, so what cultural
shifts need to happen in orderto make that a reality.
So right now, trump won and I'msuper excited about that.

(49:13):
I I love what the what you know, elon and vivek are up to on
rfk and get like, I mean,looking at it from outside, it's
crazy what's been happening forso many years, but essentially
so, one of the realizations I Iwas always and I think this is
the experience of a lot ofpeople I was always democrats in
my mind, you know, like I was atech bro, like that's what tech

(49:35):
bros do.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
They're Democrats.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Lived in New York city, all the things Right, and
then, as Trump got elected, Irecognized that, that that Like
he broke he broke late nightcomedy.
Late night comedy stopped beingfunny and they contorted
themselves into all thesepretzels in order to make him
look stupid when he saidsomething that was actually
quite reasonable and I was likethat was kind of my wake up call

(50:00):
to like wait, what the hell isgoing on.
And that went to this deep dive, just like now I'm on book six
with Family Constellations.
I probably read over 100 booksabout politics and started to
get really, really deep on thatand understand what actually
works.
And you know many of the.
I was like I loved Bernie backin 2016.

(50:21):
And then, like after I starteddeep diving, I started to listen
to what he actually said andhis policies and ideas and think
them through.
I'm like, no wait, that's notgoing to work.
But I guess the words are only7% of communications.
We get excited about the toneand all the hoopla around it

(50:41):
without actually thinking aboutwhat's actually being said.
But the bottom line is that Imean it's a whole book, but the
bottom line is that I think thevast majority of people, if you
look at a high enough level.
We want the same things.
We want for people to be happy,healthy, prosperous and safe.
We want a thriving economy andwe want a sustainable, healthy

(51:05):
planet.
I think we can all agree onthose outcomes.
Now the question is how do weget there?
What are the strategies?
And so, when you look at, whenyou break it down like happy,
well, that's really an insidejob.
It's not something thegovernment can do.
The government can get out ofthe way of making you stop
making you miserable, but itcan't make you happy, you know,
or I mean, you can't make youmiserable either, but but it can

(51:27):
stop doing stupid shit, buthappiness is an inside job.
Health is mostly an inside job.
There's environmental factors.
There's like rfk is famouslytalking about the fluoride that
they put in the water here,things like that.
But, um, and there's definitelya lot of systemic factors,
right, like feeding people crapthat makes them sick and all
that stuff.

(51:48):
Um, at the end of the day,though, health is has to be is a
personal responsibility to wecan, again, we can stop
poisoning people, but at the endof the day, health is going to
be personal.
And then prosperity Also samething, right, we can stop doing
things that impoverish people,like stealing their money and
sending, blowing them up in theMiddle East and what else the

(52:11):
government has been doing, oryou know other things that the
government has been doing.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Let's just leave it at that for now.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
But you don't make someone prosperous by giving a
poor person money, because thereason that the poor person is
poor is generally mindset, youknow.
So just giving someone who hasa poverty mindset more money is
not going to make that personmore rich.
It's going to make them, youknow, poor now with a big flat
screen tv or something whatever.

(52:44):
It is right so.
So I'm all for helping peoplenot be poor, but what are
actually effective ways toenable prosperity and safety?
There's borders, there's police, there's fire departments, that
kind of stuff.
Again, there's a big piece,that's emotional safety, which
is an inside job.
Thriving economy is essentiallylike let people set guardrails,

(53:08):
do uh, keep their money andinvest them how they want to
invest them.
And sustainable planet is aboutjust being logic and rational
about what are the things wecan't do and can't do and what.
What's a good investment ofresources into fixing whatever
issues there are.
But looking at it, you knowclearly, without like this uh,

(53:33):
doomsday, blah, blah, that's,that's been going on.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah yeah, that's um, you know, I, I, you know it.
All kind of all leads it kindof in my, in my world is like
all roads lead to rome, but youknow, all roads lead to
unresolved trauma.
You know, it's kind of my, I'm aone trick pony in some.
In some way it's like, yeah,it's like health unresolved
trauma, finance unresolvedtrauma.

(53:57):
You know like, and you startseeing how and and I'm very
curious, like how, like, couldwe as a country, like name,
dealing with unresolved traumaas a national priority?
Right, it's yeah, you know howwe did with smoking or how we
did with, like, taking lead outof gasoline or whatever that
looks like you know like how doyou get that voice?

(54:20):
and that's partly my mission isto say, okay, there's things
that happen.
Okay, let's say let's sayrepublicans are right.
Let's say democrats are right.
Let's say they're right aboutportions of it.
Let's say they're right aboutthe victim perpetrator narrative
Sure, okay, you're right.
Everybody's a racist,everybody's, you know, sexist,
everybody.
Okay, sure, okay, yeah, okay,yes, yes, yes, all those things,
what are we going to do aboutit?

(54:45):
Deal with their own shit andit's like that's, that's such a.
You know it's.
It's the most, it's thesimplest thing, but also the
most hard.
The hardest thing to do in theworld is to be like.
Personal responsibility doeshave a massive factor in this,
but let's create the narrativeand the social structure where
we're encouraging everybody towork on their stuff, to work on

(55:06):
their own.
Result trauma, because we wantmore winners and we want the
Democrats to be the crazycreative you know types and we
want the conservatives to be theguys that make sure that the
trains run on time and the.
The tension between those twothings are it's like where the
prosperity of this incrediblecountry comes from.
Yes, you know, yeah, like it's.
It's just such a.
I'm so glad that you're, thatyou're looking at this from this

(55:28):
perspective.
So if you had, let's say, amagical, I just want to jump on
that because you're exactlyright about everything you just
said.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And it blows my mind how we live in these narrow
paradigms of, for example,health care quote unquote has
nothing to do with health orcare, but the health care
industry and and and how it'slike um insists on this whole 3d
causality, you know, frameworkparadigm, and then yet in every

(56:04):
single clinical study we'reproving mind over matter in the
form of the placebo effect, andlike, nobody is even talking
about that.
Like every single doctor, everysingle you know medical, knows
that this is a thing andnobody's taking it seriously.
So I, that's the next frontierthat I would love to be part of.
Like right now, elon rfk, trumpall these like in there

(56:28):
cleaning up the mess from amostly 3D paradigm, I'm all for
it.
Now, next wave, let's bring thespiritual into actual
government, scientifically.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
If not, we're just going to repeat it.
It's like, ok, ok, so what'snext after, after Trump?
Like, what's the next?
We're just going to repeat thevictim perpetrator narrative.
If we're continued to beentangled in that victim
perpetrator narrative, right,it's like you're the victim,
you're the perpetrator.
We're going to do this stuff.
I want to be right above allelse.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
You know, it's like and, and there's much of what we
want government to do is inresponse to our traumas, right,
like the whole pride thing is,like I feel unworthy because I'm
gay or whatever it is, and sonow I need the government and
everybody else to reflect to methat I'm like no, this is not
how this works.
It's never going to fill upthat void, because that void is
yours, you know, or it might notbe yours because it might be,

(57:22):
but it's your job to fill thatup.
It's not all our job, you know,like Byron Katie says there's my
business, there's your business, there's God's business.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah, exactly, and so you know that's what I'm.
So I'm encouraged about howtrauma starting to have this
conversation to be like you knowI have this saying that's like
what happened to you is not yourfault but it's your
responsibility to fix it becausenobody else can, can you know
it's like, and you can't ask thegovernment to do this stuff.
But you can say let's have thenational conversation about this

(57:59):
stuff to say these are patterns, let's start getting into the
pattern breaking business tocreate more connection, more,
you know, depth to our, to ourexistence, so we can have more
winners.
In general, I want you know,people from the left, people
from the right, people from theup, people from the down, the
polka dots versus the stripes.
I want everybody to be asprosperous as possible because
there's.
We live in an abundant world,we live in a world of

(58:22):
possibilities that if you assumepersonal responsibility, you
assume the responsibility thatyou are the arbiter of your.
You know that agency, thatyou're not absolving your
responsibility to the collective, that we can.
We can create an incredible,incredible future.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
Exactly, the golden age is within reach.
It really is and it's.
It's for me that the thephrasing that I use is unlocking
or unleashing the humancreative life force.
There's that energy that runsthrough us that you know
originates from our crotch,which is literally where where
life is created Right, and it,it fuels everything.

(58:59):
But then all the unresolvedtrauma becomes these like logs
of bullshit, that thatdiminishes that flame.
So peel those layers away thatlet that flame shine brightly.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, that that's.
And and to understand the forceof loyalties, like there's a
book in the consolation worldthat called it, even if it costs
me my life, that loyalty issuch a strong force that we will
sacrifice our own lives inorder to fulfill that loyalty in
the family system.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yeah, wow, and people don't understand that Right.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Yeah, like, and, and some of these incredible
innocent.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
it's so innocent doing it too, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, and we like think of it as a like, we're
fulfilled, we're being loyalty,we're being loyal to our
unconscious family system.
Right, the stuff that we don'tknow it it's fueled millions of
deaths, right, that, like, whenyou start understanding that,
when this happens in culturalsystems, it's like, oh, you know
the, the genocide and thathappened during, you know the,

(01:00:01):
the holocaust is fueled by the,the humiliation of the world war
one.
Right, the catalyst of this youknow um, you know, perpetrator
movement comes from humiliationand the victimization, right, so
so he's like, oh, this is areally dangerous force.
It can, it can destabilizeeverything and that's what I'm
afraid of, kind of the currentpolitics.
Now, it's like, not not afraid,because we're having a

(01:00:26):
conversation about trauma and wecan amplify that voice.
But you know people that arelike I'm owed my pound of flesh
through this righteousness, thathave absolved their agency to
the collective will justifyanything to be right, including
genocide.
It's like, ah, this is reallydangerous.
You start seeingidentitarianism on both sides

(01:00:46):
that, like the of of aperpetrator has infiltrated both
of these sides.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
That's the thing that concerns me the most yeah, um,
but you're right, like the, the,these things murder millions of
people and include, you know,adding to that, suicide and drug
deaths and all of that stufftoo, right, um, yeah, yeah, it's
costing a lot of lives.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean it's, it's, I'm, I'mvery, I'm very optimistic
because I see, you know, it'slike over the years, we just
keep having this conversationand things get gradually better
and better and better and betterand it's like, not this
exponential thing, but just likeover many iterations, the
system cleans up the trauma.

(01:01:31):
I think it's kind of like thisfeature of our systems that it
cleans up the trauma, maybethrough religion, kung Fu,
meditation, whatever the thingthat you do is right, you know,
whatever the thing is, but itgradually starts like taking
away that those traumaentanglements and, I think,
family constellations is justthis way of like supercharging
that, that possibility yeah,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
It's so beautiful because it's so simple and so
clean and so effective.
It's elegant yeah it's soelegant and it's so, so honest,
like the, the honor I I had, a Ihad for many years.
I was like, ah, mom and daddidn't see me or love me the
right way, like all that stuff,and it took me like into my 40s,

(01:02:16):
uh, early 40s, until I Ifinally kind of healed that, um,
and it was a dramatic shift forme and it completely changed my
relationship, especially withmy dad, um.
But this is just taking it to awhole nother level where I'm
like really shedding anyresistance to receiving their

(01:02:38):
love and any need to make myselfbetter than them in any way.
You know, just I'm the littleone, they're the big ones.
They gave me life, honor andrespect, everyone that went
before me.
So it's it's it like for me.
The word that comes to mind isreverence yeah, fill me with
reverence.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Yeah, what, so what?

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
are the like, the, the I was looking at.
You know, I know my parents.
I know my grandparents tosomebody's I don't know my.
My mom, my mom's father, diedwhen I was ones.
I didn't, didn't meet him, buttheir parents I don't really
know.
I don't know their names.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
I don't know their faces.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
And it's so humbling, too, to realize that my kids
are going to know who I am.
Obviously their kids areprobably going to know who I am,
but their kids might have nofucking clue.
It's a whole life.
It's humbling.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yeah yeah, humbling, yeah yeah.
So what, um, what?
What commonalities have youfound amongst the six books that
you've, that you've done thisdeep dive into, into family
constellations?
What's, what are the common uhpatterns that you've recognized
amongst all of them?

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
I mean in terms of it's, in terms of it's pattern
recognition, you know.
So they're like noticing thepatterns and where how that
shows up.
I think that the thing that'sbeen so powerful for me is those
simple sentences that you saylike I'm sorry, things didn't
work out between us, because Iloved you very much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
And the care that it takes to have to say that, to
say that thing, and what energyyou have to be in to be able to
really connect and resonate withit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'spowerful.
So what do you see in thefuture of this work, now that
you've done?
You were introduced with thison Tony's side what do you see

(01:04:27):
this?
Where do you think this isgoing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
For me personally or in general.
This is going for me personallyor in general no for you, are
you personally?
I think it'll.
I mean, it's something that I'mdeep diving into for my own
growth right now, um, andsharing about with my clients
and and whatnot.
Because you know, obviously,like I coach entrepreneurs most,
you know mostly, and you know,like I've experienced, right,

(01:04:50):
you've like, every businessproblem is really a personal or
spiritual problem that shows upin business.
And so if you have this kind ofentanglement with someone
that's going to really causeissues in your business or
likely to, so when that comes upI'll send.
I send people that way.
I just did that this week sendone of my clients to get get
some family consolation work,because I think there's really

(01:05:12):
something there.
I think I might do sometraining to become a facilitator
myself.
I don't, like I see myself asmore that type of guide, as a
coach, that guide that's done,all the things and then I can
send you to differentspecialists, but I can see kind
of the big picture, uh, so Idon't see myself being you know

(01:05:35):
doing.
I have run a software company.
I want to start other companieslike I'm, I'm, I'm more of a
multi, multi-entrepreneur myself, um, but it's, it's, it becomes
, you know, a really core toolin my tool belt.
Essentially, you know, byronKatie is someone who's been
really instrumental for me aswell.

(01:05:55):
I don't know if I'm I'm you'renot familiar with, no, no, no,
she's incredible.
So she a bunch of books, buther thing is is um questioning
your thoughts.
She has four questions and aturnaround, but essentially,
every, every stress in your lifeis caused by you believing a

(01:06:16):
false thought.
So common one is I was workingwith a client yesterday like,
and she was like I, I, I shouldhave more clients by now.
I'm like, okay, I should havemore clients by now.
Is that true?
Well, I feel like I should havemore clients.
Okay, can you absolutely knowit's true?

(01:06:38):
I guess I can't know.
I mean, I don't have moreclients, so I guess not.
Okay, great, how do you feelwhen you think that?
When you believe the thoughtthat I should have more clients
than I do, oh, I feel like yeah.
Then, when you believe thethought that I should have more
clients than I do, oh, I feellike, how do you feel in your
body?
How do you treat the clientsthat you do have?
How do you treat your spouse?
How do you treat yourself?

(01:06:59):
Like, okay, what if youcouldn't think the thought that
I should have more clients thanI do, oh, I'd feel good, I'd
feel happy, I'd feel free, I'dfeel calm, relaxed, maybe
energized, whatever.
Okay, great.
So now there's this thoughtthat you know is not true, and
when you believe it, you feelstress.
And when you don't, if youcouldn't think and you would

(01:07:21):
feel good, can you think of agood reason to hold on to that
thought?
No, yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Loyalty time, my own resolve.
Trauma for my family system.

Speaker 2 (01:07:34):
It's the opposite.
I shouldn't have any moreclients than I have.
You know, I have the exactright number of clients that I
should have in this right moment, and so should is a is a great
as a big one, but it'sessentially like it's such a
simple approach to spiritualityin the terms of like just
removing one by one all of thosethoughts that we tell ourselves

(01:07:55):
, that take us out of being inreality in the present moment,
which is Byron Katie calls God.
Reality is God, god is reality,and when you fight reality,
when you fight God, you lose,but only every time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Ain't that the truth, yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Ain't that the truth?

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Yeah, I think that's a, that's a perfect, um, I think
that's a perfect way to to wrapthis up.
You know, every time we fightGod, we lose.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yeah, and family constellations does that so
beautifully.
Because those sentences thatyou say are exactly speaking the
truth plainly.
No judgment Right there may be,like it's a pity things didn't
work out, Like it's, likethere's no story there.
It's just speaking the truth soclearly and powerfully.

(01:08:48):
So reality, God and reality aresynonyms, and there's a lot
more words we could add to thatlist.
Truth, love are two of myfavorite ones.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
And I really believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:04):
I really believe that truth and God are the same
thing.
So when we speak a truth likethat, as we do in family
constellations, we're we'respeaking, we're touching god
yeah, that that happens in, in,in constellations on a regular
basis.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
I facilitate constellations and it's like
it's you're in the presence ofthe divine.
This is like.
The truth is so profound it'salmost impossible to explain it.
It's like you're you're in thepresence of something divine.
It's, it's.
It's so beautiful, so elegant,so profound.
You're just like it's it's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
It's impossible to explain and it's humbling, you
know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
So, calvin, how do people get in contact with you?
Where do people buy your book?
I'd love to have thisconversation again, man down, in
the future.
I'd love to have you back.
I think we're resonant people,so I want to amplify your voice
as much as possible.
So, how book go to Amazon.
It's on Amazon Kindle andpaperback.
Um, and we can do with this.
Calvin Corelli my personalwebsite is my name, calvin
Corelli, c O R R, two R's, one LC O R R E L I, and then for the

(01:10:24):
software, it's simplerocom.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
All right, Awesome, man.
Hopefully we'll have anotherconversation soon.
Man, I'd love to see you knowhow this settles in your life
and how you use this as anincredible tool, and I'm really
excited to see what the futureholds for you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
Thank you, man.
I am too.
And, by the way, to engage withme.
X and Instagram are the twoplatforms that I'm on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
I'm just my name so thanks.
Kelvin, I appreciate it, man.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Thank you, man, it was a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Yeah, thanks for tuning in to the Zulu One
podcast.
If you found value in today'spodcast, please don't forget to
like, share and subscribe.
Your support means everythingto us and thank you for being
part of this journey.

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05. How Business, Spirituality, and Healing Intersect | Calvin Correli

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}05. How Business, Spirituality, and Healing Intersect | Calvin Correli