09. Healing the Family Wounds You Didn’t Cause | Gary Stuart - ZuluOne: Heal the Wounds You Didn't Know You Carried

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast.
Today I sit down with Gary FStewart, an expert in ancestral
intelligence and familyconstellations.
We explore how our past shapesus and how we can start to heal.
We discuss why people hold onto trauma, the power of small
healing steps and finding wisdomin even the hardest parts of
our upbringing.
Thank you so, gary, tell me alittle bit about um.

(00:35):
You know I've I've followedyour, your work and I've seen
you in the constellationcommunity for a long time and
tell me a little bit about howyou kind of first stumbled
across, uh, familyconstellations and this modality
.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah Well, I had given up stand-up comedy.
I moved from Boston to LAbecause I was frustrated not
getting discovered in Boston.
I didn't know I was getting aPhD in public speaking.
But you know, you don't see theforest for the trees of the
bigger plan in your life, youknow, until you live through it.
And then you look back.
And then I gave it up and I hada lot of anxiety about getting

(01:04):
into the healing arts.
But you know, being in therestaurant business slash stand
up comic nights restaurant byday we'd give each other massage
.
Everyone said I had the besttouch and blah, blah, blah.
So I decided to give up standup comedy.
I said, well, let me just calla massage school.
And they had morning classes,monday, wednesday, friday.
And then I went to my one to 10pm shift at the restaurant a

(01:27):
mile away and I said, well, thisis hand in glove.
So you know, that went great.
But what I noticed when I wastouching people, I was getting
all this information.
Now I hadn't heard aboutconstellations at all and I said
where is this informationcoming?
It's the same field that guidesme.
You know, whether you call itBurt's field or your greater
consciousness, there's stuffguiding us all the time, but do

(01:49):
we stop and listen to what it'strying to tell us?
So I've, I've found when I wasmassaging people I would get
okay, they need to hear aboutthis.
I get like a headline, like thefront page headline their,
their shoulder problem is aboutguilt.
So talk to them about guilt andI say, okay, I have an hour to
figure out how I can approachguilt in their shoulder issue,

(02:11):
you know, or pelvis, or whereverthey had their pain.
And then I'd say, oh, is thereanything you feel guilty about?
Oh my God, why did you ask?
I said I'm just picking up onit.
And then we'd kind of have acathartic discussion while they
were getting nurtured on theirbody.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh, wow, so this is going to be an odd question,
yeah that's fine.
Did you find comedy to beintuitive that you almost
discovered, as you do in afacilitation of a consolation?
Do you find a joke?
It discovers itself.
It reveals itself almost likean insight in a family
conversation Is that?
Is that similar?

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Oh, same thing.
I think all creativity is likethat.
I mean, like Keith Richards,I'm a big Rolling Stones fan
before your time.
But he said, you know, he justwoke up from a dream, you know
with, start me up, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah dah.
So he had a recorder.
He said da-da-da, da-da-da.
Then when he woke up the nextday, he had Chris Martin of

(03:10):
Coldplay, who I'm a fan of.
He said this song just floatedinto my consciousness and I
wrote it down.
So where does all that come from?
You know, like the Beatleswriting all the albums and songs
they did in like what?
Less than 10 years.
It's like what creative thingis floating down from the
heavens and I've done shamanicwork and from ayahuasca to

(03:33):
mushrooms and everything.
And one of my first experiencesI saw words floating down.
I think this was before theMatrix in the 90s, but words
were floating down in differentcombinations and I was laughing
hysterically.
So if you put this word andthat word juxtaposed, it's
really comical but it's verydeep at the same time.
So I felt like somehow thisincarnation I was dealing with

(03:55):
language and communication andwriting Started out as comedy
but then led to me being anauthor.
I think I'm working on my 14thbook now and I love
communicating.
Whether people read it or not,I just put my heart and soul
into everything I do for thebetterment of humanity and to
conceptualize.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Yeah, that's.
You know what you're sayingabout.
You know the creative processreally resonates with me.
I write music.
You can see the guitar.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I saw that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
You know, I write music and I and I found that I
don't write songs.
I find them in some way.
I find them in the neck of theguitar, and then the same thing
with comedy is like the comedyis almost in between, it's like
a profound truth that are inbetween.
You know, kind of like thepillars of conversation or the
or the boulders, or tectonicplates of conversation in life.
You suddenly hit this, like allthe things align and you

(04:45):
suddenly, you know, getsomething through.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
And you know as as you, I would imagine that you
know this that true comedy is isprofound truth made in a funny
way, right, and so like reallyresonates with people.
Yeah, so it's palatable, or?
They reject it because it'slike they don't want to go there
.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Oh, you said that blah, blah, blah, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean one common theme would be like how can the
Catholic church who's abstinentrule birth control?
and sexuality I mean so I wouldalways point out the hypocrisy
of the two opposing thoughts.
Einstein said the definition ofa genius is for anybody's brain
or mind told.
True, with opposing thoughtssimultaneously, that makes sense

(05:30):
.
And with constellations, herewe have the client with us,
suffering, and they say theycome from a perpetrator-oriented
family system.
Well, they wouldn't be herewithout that.
So there's the huge conundrumthey wouldn't exist if that
didn't happen.
So I think, with Bert'steachings, why are we throwing
the baby out with the bathwater?

(05:51):
You're here because it happened.
May not have been ideal, butyou wouldn't be here otherwise.
So can we see the gift?
One of my first theories on myfirst book.
I call it gifts in the garbage.
It's like underneath all thattrauma and debris of what we all
had to do to survive Number one, they were teaching us survival
skills to survive our ownfamily system, like they did and

(06:16):
the ancestors did.
So it's all trickled down fromthat and underneath all that is
the pearl of wisdom or the gift,and I feel consolations.
Get us to the place to receivethe gift of life the way it came
to us, rather than saying itshould be wrapped in the perfect
bow and the perfect wrapping.
99 and 99, 100 people had arough time in their life.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
And that's such good insight to say that you you know
gifts in the garbage or thereis a diamond in the rough or
whatever that looks exactly.
Yeah, you can then you and youcan approach it from a place of
gratitude and connection, right,rather than being oh, woe is me
, this is my, my ideology, thatthe only thing that it does it's

(06:59):
perpetuates, perpetuates thepattern of pain, right?

Speaker 2 (07:03):
and the danger with constellations.
Just to be perfectly honest,what I see, there's what I call.
We did a conference in Colorado, the last conference we had,
and my fear is that with thenewer people coming up, they're
going to be trauma worshipers orthey're not going beyond
duality Like, yes, you had a badlike psychotherapists, I'm the
good parent.
You had a bad likepsychotherapists, I'm the good

(07:27):
parent.
You had a bad father, a bad,and that all may be true, but
you have to find the goodness inwhat was and realize any.
Like you know, I was a severelybattered child and then my
first cousin told me what hisfather went through with my
father, his boys, with mygrandfather, and I can't believe
how my great grandfather, who Inever met, must have mutilated
my grandfather to have physicalviolence be the best thing he

(07:49):
could do to his sons.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's like you know peoplehave stories and you know they
have the stories that they'restuck in and you can always go
back in that principle.
You can always go back and justsimply say thank you for giving
me life.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
Right, exactly Right, and so underneath it's like
under the radar.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Under the radar, exactly, and that's such a
that's such an interestingconcept that you, that you bring
up, that your fear is thatpeople, people will like trauma
worship in some way, and thatthey weaponize almost pop
culture right Psychologicalconversations and say, oh, my
trauma is my, you know identity.
And then you continue down thatpath and you know I.

(08:30):
Just that's why I'm such a bigfan of consolations.
It's such an effective processto work through that armor that
people hold.
Right and it has profound truthin it.
There's no other way of gettingthrough it than the profound
truth that's in the system Right.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
If they let it happen , like some people, there's
therapeutic resistance and Ihave some clients that they
identify, let's say, a younglady who is incestuous by her
brother, father, neighbor,whatever they're so identified
in being a sex abuse victim thatthey wouldn't know who they
would be without it.
So a lot of people it's goingto sound crazy, but there's a

(09:08):
comfort zone in the devil, youknow.
Yeah, it's actually scarier tolet that go and say, okay, you
know, even with Jewish people inthe Holocaust, yes, that
happened, yes, it was horrible.
And I discovered 15 years aftermy mother's death that a big
family secret came out, that shewas secretly Jewish and she
didn't even know it in herlifetime.
And so people identify withthat and I say, well, what if

(09:32):
you could be the first happy Jewthat wasn't persecuted or put
in a concentration camp?
And you being happy in the 21stcentury means that all that
suffering wasn't in vain.
Somebody can be Jewish andnon-persecuted, not identify as
a Dachau or Auschwitz victim,but I'm a Jew, no one's

(09:52):
persecuting me and I'm going tohave a happy life in the memory
of those who got burned in anoven.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, and I think the wandering in the desert for 40
years is that right the, youknow, after the oppression of.
You know pharaoh's oppression ofof the.
You know the people of israel,right, and then wandering in the
desert.
Is that you know you and Iexperienced this in
constellations a lot of times isthat when I have a profound
movement, I'm a bit lost.

(10:20):
For a couple, there's a timethat I'm molting.
You know I've taken off thatold.
You know shell and shell andI'm vulnerable and I'm I'm like
susceptible and I'm feeling allthese things that I hadn't been
feeling and I've and I put awayfor a long time.
And you're kind of in that, inthat liminal space between where
you're going and where you wereRight.
And so like it's such a cool waythat you're you're putting it

(10:48):
to say like this can happen inculture and in systems as well,
it can happen in people, right?
So I love, I love how you, howyou put that in there to say not
to blame the victim, but togive it's a profound empowerment
of that position, to say youcan actually do something about
it right and some people won'ttake that, so don't forget.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
now another kind of insidious thing Hate to be the
devil's advocate here.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
No, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
There becomes a loyalty to suffering.
So I've had Jewish familieswhere the sister represented
sexual abuse by their brother.
Stuff like that happened in aJewish family.
So you could say that thebrother represented the Nazi
perpetrators and the sisterrepresented the Jewish victims
in one or two generations afterthe Holocaust, where they had

(11:32):
their roots in Germany duringWorld War II.
And it's like and whatHellinger found, which I think
is brilliant that kind of thetemplate of what was established
in one generation crosses intothe next.
Then they're acting out thesame drama with different
characters.
But one person say I'llrepresent all the victims who

(11:54):
are unseen and unspoken.
I'll represent the nasty Naziperpetrators of the SS who
invaded my family system.
And so then you have toextricate them from that, if
they'll allow it.
And it's absolutely fascinating.
I mean, we're watching familyhistory and human history
transform before our eyes andthere's no more of a sacred

(12:17):
place to be, to be a facilitatorfor that, even if the client is
resistance.
I honor their resistance.
I never reject them.
I say just sit with it.
In time Things will start tomake sense.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
And that's a really good point because, like you
know, one of the things that Ido as a facilitator is like
today we took a small steptowards healing.
You know it's like, and thatsmall step may, in two years or
18 months or 12 months down theroad, that they can be open to
another movement Right.
And then you can do this slowshipping, slow movement of the
ship Right that shifted to one,one degree or a quarter of a

(12:53):
degree one way, and then 10years, 20 years on the line,
exactly, completely differentplace.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
And that that's one regret I have, because we don't
do.
You know, I'm not a bigorganization that does follow
upup stuff 5, 10, 20 years later.
But Bert even said that a lot.
He said I'll never see theresults of what I'm doing here.
I won't be alive to see thepositive results that I impacted
people with.
But all I know which touches myheart, he said I'm improving

(13:19):
the future of this family systemand that family system might
have a better life there.
Their kids will have a betterlife.
You know, the culture will havea better culture because of the
work we do.
And um, heinz Stark was also myfirst teacher.
Uh, he was kind of a protege ofHellinger in Germany.
We brought him to LA to trainabout 20 of us and um, and many

(13:41):
didn't take it professionallybut only five of us took it up
professionally and I was a duckto water so I loved it or
whatever.
But you know we won't see theresults of the income and the
thing is not to fill our egolike I heal this and there blah,
blah, blah.
It's like hey, we did our bestin that moment in time and we
don't know where life is goingto take and we have to accept.
You know, it's like how manydoctors Western MDs would do

(14:04):
surgery and never see thepatient again after an
appendicitis or a kidneytransplant.
But they know that person'salive for decades.
After that, one hour in theoperating room.
Same thing, with constellations.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
So how did how did you get connect?
How did that connection happen?
Because you know the comedyscene in Boston during when
you're coming up was probablypretty rough, right.
It was like kind of wild andrough.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well, it was hot because it was the eighties.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
So you know, some of the best comedians that you see
now is came out of.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Boston.
Dennis Leary was there.
Oh my God, all the all this was.
Stephen Wright would come in onoccasion.
He kind of got discovered.
First I, williams, would come toboston.
It's a big college town soeveryone would pass through
there.
And we used to go to one club,nicks um in in boston and they
would let all the comics standin the back.
It was kind of like a littlerestaurant in the back but you

(14:56):
had access to the stage.
So they'd say you guys come infree, study seinfeld, study
robin williams, study everyone,see what you can learn.
You know out of their cadence,their, their thoughts,
everything.
So we were studying the artform as well.
And a couple comedians said youknow, you're not getting
discovered here becauseeveryone's a hack.
They're copying George Carlinor Bill Cosby's old stuff,

(15:18):
changing the syntax of the wordssaying it's their own, the
words saying it's their own.
He said you're a comedic artistand that's why you're getting
kind of rejected, because you'regoing into places where no
one's been to find humor andcreate deeper thoughts with the
humor to open people's minds.
And so that was my fate as acomic.

(15:39):
But I didn't realize it wouldhelp me conquer stage fright.
Public speaking, writing jokesbecame writing books.
You know what I mean.
So it was just the provingground of what I was going to
become, which I didn't see atthe time.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
So how does LA happen ?
So you go, you move to LA, andthen how do you get connected
with?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Well, the biggest thing is there was a big it was
called the comedy riot in Boston.
It was a yearly thing and I gotthe number five spot, which is
the best spot of the night.
It was a lotto.
And then the host came up to mehe said well, you got moved to
number 10.
So when you're in, the personwho they replaced me with was a
young kid, young college kid,college town, and I was in my

(16:19):
early thirties and I probablywould have won that.
But the person they gave my fivespot to won that night and they
did not want me to win, theydidn't want an alternative or an
original comic to win, theywanted someone who was
predictable.
A lot of comedy.
They want predictable.
They know you'll do the sameset over and over and over again

(16:40):
and change this, and I wouldalways try to have a new set
every time I performed to make afresh, original and thought
provoking.
So they didn't.
They didn't like the artistryof comic, but the predictability
.
So I gave.
After that I said I've been atthis for about five, five, at
least five years, maybe evenseven years, probably about five
years, a good five years.

(17:00):
And I said there's no, i'll'llnever escape this here.
So and I'm a summery beachperson and as a little kid I was
stealing books from usedbookstores on Los Angeles as a
like eight-year-old, 10-year-oldkid, saying this looks like the
most interesting city on earthand it's like, I guess somehow

(17:21):
in my incarnation I knew thatwould be where it'd end up, you
know, thousands of miles away,3,000 miles away from the East
Coast, Wow, and so once in LA,how did you hear about
Constellation?

Speaker 1 (17:33):
How does that?
You know how does that happen?
Because it must have been very,very new, right yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Well, I was doing massage and I said OK, well, I
guess I'm a healer with allthese insights.
And then someone came in to amassage center I was working.
We started talking.
She said I'm new in LA and I dothis modality called
constellations.
Blah, blah, blah.
I said well, would you want totrade sessions massage for
showing me this experimentalthing?

(18:00):
We hit it off immediately andthen you know what year was this
.
This was 1990, probably 1998.
And you know she put papers onthe floor.
We didn't have any reps, it wasjust kind of a one-on-one
private session.
Then she said stand on yourmother a piece of paper, with
mom on the underside, dad on theother.

(18:20):
And I stood on my father'spaper and I said I feel dead
inside.
She looks at me.
No one feels dead inside.
I said I'm just telling you howI feel.
I don't know how this works.
And she stood on a.
I feel dead inside.
I said I'm not making this up,I'm a very honest person.
So I helped her expand herbeliefs.
And my father was on Omaha beachin World War II, all his fellow

(18:44):
soldiers being killed, flyinginto Nazi bullets.
You know he had so muchpost-traumatic stress which
turned into violence against me.
You know 10 years later.
But now I understand with muchmore compassion how anyone could
survive that kill his way toGermany and then come back, you
know, severely traumatized byall that death.

(19:04):
But yet you know he sired sevenkids.
So it's like that's anothermetaphor how does death inspire
life to go forward?
Because if you here's a, here'san interesting fact to it.
I don't know if you've everheard it, so guess how many baby
boomers were born after WorldWar Two?
Oh, wow, and the soldierscoming back?

(19:26):
I would imagine a lot.
75 to 80 million people between1945 and 1964, I believe in
that 20-year period.
Guess how many people died inWorld War II?
75 to 80 million, wow.
So how?

Speaker 1 (19:40):
does great death stimulate great life.
So how does?

Speaker 2 (19:42):
great death stimulate great life, and 90% of the baby
boomers, of which that's thegeneration I was born in, were
anti-war and hence the hippieculture.
I used to be a hippie, withshoulder-length hair, and all
that in the 60s.
But we were protesting theVietnam War and all the violence
in the world and trying to havepeace.

(20:02):
Flower power, the Beatles,music, marijuana, whatever.
We were of a totally differentmindset, the counterculture to
the warlike industry that thefederal government was
exercising all over the worldthrough the CIA or Vietnam,
whatever conflict that they werefinancially supporting, which
really is all about money andnot human life.

(20:23):
So it goes to show you thegeneration after World War II
was peace-loving, anti-violenceand did we know we were
incarnating after a violentepisode in human history?
Now, what's interesting aboutEngland rock and roll coming?
Well, it came from the US andthe South with our Black

(20:46):
talented musicians, but itreally got captured by Beatles,
rolling Stones and everything.
So what did Mick Jagger andKeith Richard or Eric Clapton
have to go through as children?
Hitler bombing London Is theloud sounds of rock and roll
music exploding sound, an echoof the bombs that they had to

(21:08):
listen to as young boys growingup?
When Hitler was bombing Londonturned into rock and roll music
and a whole subculture ageneration later.
It's just fascinating when youlook at how the world is
influenced by historical events.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, that's that evolutionary force that Jan
Jakob Stam talks about.
Yes, it's like you know howthings change the culture and I
never realized how many peoplewere lost during World War II.
And then the baby boomergeneration.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
So about the same amount.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, how does it all ?

Speaker 2 (21:37):
balances it out.
Yeah right, and how does deathin our family system, so our
family systems?
Being younger, you know, I usedto be the kid in the family
system.
Now I'm clearly a senior andancestor.
How'd that happen?
But it's like all thosegenerate.
Time passes so fast and you knowthat's part of the life force

(22:00):
too, that it's space and timeand we're all living it, not
realizing it's going to come toan end.
So now it's 73 years old, Ithink more about death and my
impact before I do leaveseparate from my life's work and
healing the environment, stufflike that.
So it's a bigger picture timein my life.

(22:20):
But I also feel the intimacybeing gentle with the intimacy
of someone's pain.
And a lot of people say thatyou are so tender with the
people you work with.
Because I just want to begentle with their suffering and
suggest what if this thought,rather than your same old, same
old, what if this?
You know?

(22:40):
And they start to get morecompassion for their parents,
because the parents had tosuffer unimaginable stuff
through their time in history,not to mention what the
grandparents reacted to.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, that's, that's such a beautiful thought that
you can actually carry, you know, carry your parents with like
an egg right, that, rather thanlike holding white, knuckling
them from going away, you canhave this right size
relationship with them.
And you know so, I always thinkyou know that that meditation
is a, is is a is an attempt toprovide connection with the meta

(23:16):
parent, absolutely.
You know the healed, connectedparent that is on, that is
inside of every, every one ofour connections one that brought
us here Right, so that that'ssuch a good way.
And the tenderness I love thatpoint, the tenderness of like,
when you're doing thisconstellation work, to be so
patient and so tender and reallycreate space for the person to

(23:40):
have the subtle movements thatare gonna happen in the
constellation.
So, man, I love that approach.
So, over the years that you'vebeen doing constellations, how
have you seen the work evolveand grow?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Well, I mean, I had a great practice and I've just
Sedona.
Well, I was doing workshops fora couple years in Sedona but
there's a million New Age thingsto do there so it's hard to
build a practice.
And Gwen St Just, who I'm a bigfan of, she has a pretty good
practice there, but somebody whoyou know, the owner said she

(24:15):
stopped going because she feelsshe's hearing the same client
say the same story over and overagain.
So my renegade theory, which Iwork out of, is let's finish the
past, let's let it be in thepast, let's take the life force
that was hidden there all alongand then create our own

(24:35):
happiness.
And when we create thathappiness and fulfillment in our
life, we're honoring all theancestors who came before and
that's what they now.
Here's the cosmic irony.
That's what they wanted.
The Irish didn't expect afamine, the Jews didn't expect
Hitler, the Chinese didn'texpect a war from the Mongols or

(24:55):
whatever.
Or if you go back to Rome withthe barbarians, no one expects
so one meme kind of phrase Ihave.
No one asks for what life givesthem.
It's a very simple statement,but it's very deep and everyone
is in reaction to what they weregiven.
So a lot of our parents, whoever, even ourselves, we don't stop

(25:18):
and really feel the impact thatwe could be acting that out
rather than finishing it andresolving it.
So I see constellations as atool to finish the past.
So we use all that chi andcreate the dream life we want to
live and pass that on to thenext generation of children, if
you happen to be a parent, sothey have happy lives and they

(25:41):
know they don't have to sufferto belong to the family system.
That's one thing.
A lot of people the loyalty andsuffering they think they have
to suffer to show the loyalty tothe like say women who are
victims of incest.
And I say that a lot, becauseI've done probably 18,000 or
19,000 constellations andprobably 15,000 were sexually

(26:02):
abused women or young girls andsome boys too, but mostly women.
And so some of them have cometo me as grandmothers saying
Gary, I heard about the work youdo.
I don't want to pass this on tomy granddaughter.
I want to protect her, but Idon't want to pass on my bad
feelings to my father or motherblah, blah, blah and that they

(26:23):
pick up on that and then theyend up being victims too, and
I've had it happen duringknowing the clients that their
kids ended up being victims ofstuff.
But they came to me for healing.
And the other thing is okay.
So say, somebody's abused bytheir brother.
You know young girls abused bytheir brother who was, you know,
she was seven, he was, you know, starting to feel sexual at 10,

(26:46):
11, 12, whatever.
And the person closest to them,you know he experimented with
his own sister or whatever.
So then they grow up and theirson will say, why does she hate
men so much?
Why does mommy hate men?
What is it about men?
That's a secret in the family.
I gotta find out what's wrongwith these guys.

(27:07):
Or what's wrong with me thatI'm a boy, you know.
And then the next generationstarts to.
Well, I better find out aboutthis because there's some reason
.
Mommy's got a thing against men, you know, and then that's how
it tracks in the next generationand the next generation of boys
may want to love the men, notrealizing they're perpetrators.

(27:27):
You know, it's just one storythat's actually very powerful,
if I can take a second on that.
So a woman she happened to beArmenian in LA and she was raped
by her boyfriend and gotpregnant and she was so angry
that she had gotten raped thatshe hated him.
So, anyway, so this was like 16years ago.

(27:50):
So she brought in her16-year-old son, who was?
It touched me to tell you hewas the most enlightened little
boy you would ever meet andeveryone in the group knew her
story because we had worked onit about five times.
Then she brought her mother inand her mother was crying during
the consolation, didn't speakEnglish, but she happened to be
raped when she was young too,and he came to me.

(28:14):
He said I want to do aconsolation.
I don't know why my motherhates my father so much.
So, of course, professionally,I couldn't tell him why.
I said yeah, she's going totreat you to a consolation,
let's see what happens.
So it was just, the whole groupwas just like oh my God, this
boy is just like walking onwater.
He was such a pure spirit and Isaid can you hold?

(28:35):
You became a mother through asexual tornado.
You had to live through a stormthat gave you this divine being
and let go of how you became amother.
I'm not saying, you know, denyyour resentment or anger towards
him.
So, after about a secondconstellation and she started to
warm up.
He says I want to go to Armeniato be with my father on summer

(29:00):
vacation.
Mom will let me go.
Gary, I'm going crazy.
I want to know my father andshe won't let me know my father,
and I don't know why.
So we did the consolation.
She said okay, this is againstevery morsel of my being.
I'm going to let him take hissummer vacation you know, the
two months off June and July orJuly and August rather and go to

(29:20):
Armenia.
He called her two weeks laterMom, I'm going to come home,

(29:48):
no-transcript.
And then here we have, beingloyal to the father, anger
against the mother, a secondgeneration, but where she gave
in just for that.
And I said you're going to begolden for the rest of your life
.
You let him do what he wantedto do.
He's growing up from boy to man.
You let him make a manly choiceand he's going to be forever

(30:08):
grateful for you for allowinghim to make that decision
himself.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
No, and you know, both things can be true with
love and create space and say Idon't, I don't agree with the
choices or I have opinions onwhat you've done and I'm not
going to repeat those.
But without judgment, right,it's like, and it just like that
entanglement that comes withthat.
It's just such a powerful andit's and it's almost 4d

(30:37):
understanding of life, you know,and so many people use that as
and and in some way justified asa weapon against the world that
they've gone through so muchpain.
And it's understandable from ahuman perspective, right, but
from a systemic lens,perspective, you know, what we
reject, we become.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Exactly, exactly, and people don't realize that, and
I've had so many, so many cases.
But it's just such an honor toget people to see things and
that's the beauty, because youknow, even my training with
Heinz Stark, I still hated myfather at 50 years old going
through consolation training,because I was so stuck in being
and I was whipped severely, Imean, you know, very cruelly,

(31:22):
and it was at the end of thetraining.
He asked, heinz asked for afinal statement in mind, which
is still hard to say, but I sayit anyway to challenge myself.
I come from a good familysystem, oh, wow.
And for me to say that afterwhat I went through is, you know
, when I went into facilitatortraining, hating, like

(31:46):
justifying, what do we call it?
There's a word for it, I'llthink of the word.
But a righteous victim Arighteous victim is actually a
perpetrator, a club perpetrator.
It's like a wolf in sheep'sclothing.
So when you get clients likethat, you say, ah okay, they're
carrying the perpetrator energy,but they're playing the victim

(32:08):
to be so righteous that no onewill see they're actually a
perpetrator in training.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, they're a perpetrator in training and that
is.
You know, it's almost like theyweaponize the righteousness of
God, god's judgment, right Tosay I'm going to wield, you know
, I'm going to wield this forceand I'm so above you that you
have that.
You know, it's almost thatdevouring mother, almost that is
going to consume you.

(32:34):
You know, and he's like holycrap, that energy is pretty,
pretty intense and it can and itcan turn into that perpetrator
energy.
That the trouble is Exactly,exactly.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
So and you know, bert was against forgiveness, and a
lot of people in the new agecommunity.
But, like you're saying, withthat, when you're a righteous
victim, you make yourself biggerthan the parent or your
grandparent, whoever the abuserwas, whatever or the oppressor
we'll just call it generaloppressor.
And so a bird would say tosomebody I can't work with you,

(33:07):
you're too big.
And then too big, blah, blah,blah.
Well, so part of receiving deephealing and consolation work is
to make yourself humble to thebigger forces because somehow,
whether you agree to incarnate,to learn this lesson or to
survive them, so you'd be strongenough to survive anything,

(33:29):
then there's a gift there thatyou won't see when you're big
and arrogant, and a lot ofpsychotherapy in the United
States.
Oh yeah, you're.
You know you had bad parentsand keep paying me for 10 years
to lay on the couch.
I'll tell you how bad they areand I'll be the good parent for
you, you know, and that doesn'treally heal you.
It just placates yourrighteousness or victimization

(33:52):
even more, with thepsychotherapist, you know,
backing you up.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, it's all judgment based and you know like
our social systems are judgmentbased and they're forgiveness
based, which is even worse, youknow.
And the judgment thing is youknow Tiziano was on the podcast
recently and you know he's afacilitator out of Australia and
talking about that concept offorgiveness.
Yeah, and to forgive first youhave to absolve.

(34:17):
First you have to judge, thenyou have to absolve and say I,
you know, rid you of the guiltof this.
You know, and it doesn't workthat way.
And you're of that originalschool thought to say, you know,
you can have an opinion and youcan create distance and the
flexibility between you and theperson, rather than and the
bigger way to release it, whichI wrote.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
I'll forward you the essay that I wrote on a real
simple one page thing I wouldgive to clients.
Acceptance is how you're free.
I accept you're my father.
I accept I was a better child.
I'll never understand why youdo that to your only son out of
five.
You know six sisters, but Iaccept you're my father.
I was strong enough to stand up.

(34:58):
And Bert, one quote that Bertsaid directly where I have had
direct access to him we wouldtalk after 12 hours of
constellations, we'd take asupper break, then we'd do three
hours of lecture.
I mean we're talking about18-hour days for seven days.
Wow, because we all flew infrom all 40 countries all over
the world.
So it was every culture wasthere imaginable.

(35:18):
So he said all the evil in theworld comes from one thing and
it's I'm better.
I'm a Nazi.
I'm better than a Jew.
I'm white, I'm better than ablack person.
I'm Catholic, I'm better than aProtestant.
I'm royalty, I'm better than aserf.

(35:39):
If you really look at thatsimple equation, apply it to all
of human history.
I'm better is what elicitsperpetrator energy in human
history and family systems.
Hi.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
I'm John Zulu.
One is more than just a podcast.
It's a mission to bring healingto families and communities.
By becoming a supporter onBuzzsprout, you make this
mission possible.
Click the link in thedescription and join us, and
thank you so much for being here.
You know one of the things thatI'm originally from Venezuela,
so I, you know we have doneconstellations in.

(36:13):
Spanish right Fantastic, thewords are always very
fascinating.
To me it's like to consent,right, and the compounding word
of that is with feeling.
It's like to accept withfeelings that the consent, you
know, of the, of the source ofconsenting, and it's just such a

(36:47):
, such a powerful framework toput this conversation in, and
that's why Hellinger wasdemonized, because don't forget
the people who were againstHellinger he wrote I probably
shouldn't say it, but he wrote alove letter to Hitler.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
So the German community.
He was rejected for being.
I call him the Columbus, theColumbus who you know.
Everyone's saying the world isflat.
Now they're going to say no,it's round because of the circle
.
You better go around to seewhat it's really about.
So he wrote a love letter toHitler about if I judge you, if

(37:23):
I'm bigger than you and I'm aGerman, you know, by birth, then
can I be a perpetrator like youif I don't accept your place in
German history?
And so I rewrote the letter andI put in the place of Hitler he
did it to provoke people, forsure, but I put in mom and dad

(37:44):
the same words rather thanHitler, which really upset the
German people.
I understand too why theculture has a lot of guilt over
what happened in World War Two,but when you replace it with mom
and dad, it's there's theentire consolation concept in
just a letter of acceptance.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
I, when the first time I came out and I wrote I
wrote a whole article, articleabout that like how I first came
across that and I justunderstood I was like you know,
in some way I had I discoveredthis modality and I, like I was
so disgusted by it in some wayand and I realized it was my
judgment towards that and theperpetrator in me was really

(38:28):
activated by that.
And then when I I read it again, and then I read it again, and
I read it again is like youstart really understanding the
nuances of how deep that is.
That, yeah, I am.
If I judge you, then I judgemyself and then I therefore am I
superior to you, right?
Or dare I love you, right?

(38:49):
Or dare I understand?
Like, and you're like, I stillget goosebumps about it.
It's like, you know, for somepeople that are so wounded
that's that just being thepresence of that is almost
impossible to understand.
And I understand why, yeah, butwhen you're on the other side

(39:11):
of it and I've had this, wasn'tI didn't discover this.
This was Holocaust survivorsthat gave me this letter, that
showed me that are facilitatorsand they're of the consolation
world that said, look, this iswhat Hellinger wrote about
Hitler.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
And when you see it from that perspective, and these
are survivors of the Holocaust,their family of course, all
their families to the Holocaustright.
The people that have the mostat stake, to the direct impacts
of these things can look at thisfrom you know.
I think it's called oh man,I'll get emotional, it's okay.
Like you and me and the path toforgiveness.

(39:39):
It's like oh man.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Just the shared humanity of that is so powerful
as humans, we're so trapped induality right, wrong, black,
white, good, bad, jew, gentile,whatever it is.
But speaking of one ofHellinger's simple insights to
follow that up, he said neverforget the same God that created

(40:06):
Jesus, created Adolf, yes, yeah.
So he said who's your argument?
Who's your argument with?

Speaker 1 (40:13):
I mean, I'm going to cuss on this and who?
But who the fuck are we tojudge?
Exactly?
You know it's like it is andthat I just you know my, my
first um um teacher in this workis.
His name is Alberto Iturbe.
He's a Spanish, he's incredible, a Spanish facilitator, and
it's like that's between you andyour creator, that's between
you and God.
We're no one to judge.

(40:34):
You know what these outcomesare.
Yes, I can protect myself anddistance myself from whatever
that is.
That is my responsibility.
But you know to really create,really create.
You know the same force thatcreated you, created me.
Right, exactly, and ultimately,um will determine the outcome
for both of us.
You know it's just like, yeah,that's man, it's that.

(40:56):
It's a crushing weight of thereality of you know, of the
divine it's, it's just sopowerful you.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, and I try to get people beyond duality in
everything I do, in the books Iwrite and everything.
I just wrote a book onpropaganda.
I wrote a book called being aSembi about misogyny, how that's
expressed in family systemsthrough sexual abuse.
But goddess energy taught usway back when in my first
training he said even if youhave too many issues with your

(41:26):
mother or father, put a repthere, but look behind them to
divine feminine or divinemasculine before they got
wounded by the grandparents.
So, say, if you can't even puttwo reps, it's a.
Okay, you're too, you're too.
You're too fried about yourfather or mother.
I'm going to put another manbehind him.
You try to make it taller sothey look at the head of the

(41:48):
person.
This is the divine aspect ofyour father, who didn't mutilate
you or whatever.
Or mother and the mother.
See, the divine mother.
Which the irony when you'replacing them like that, you're
placing the grandparent.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, exactly Exactly .
Or the ancestors, the ancestorsin general.
Yeah, it's a true, yeah, it's atrue.
So you win, you win either way.
You win either way.
Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah, Imean, that's such a, you know,
I'm such a.
I'm so passionate about thiswork because of that Right Is
that you can, you can create and, like you said, you know, the

(42:21):
rebelliousness is like I thinkhealing is the most profound act
of rebellion that you can do.
Right, and one of our brand issoul rebel.
Right, it's like we're we'resoul rebels because, you know,
the rebellious ones are the onesthat show where the system can
heal exactly black sheep, youknow, and most of how many black
sheep have you come across inyour time?

(42:41):
and and and the constellationworld?
They're the ones that step outand are healing right.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
I would say almost 100% of my clients were black
sheep, but here's the conundrumwith it we had the courage to
stand up and be different.
We had the courage to saysomething's not right with this
family system and that led us onour path.
And then we get to share that,but a lot of family members will
reject the member who's tryingto do something different.

(43:12):
I had discovered in a shamanicjourney that I think my
grandfather and his brother weresexually abusing me as an
infant.
So I said Mom, this is a letter.
This is before I discoveredconsolation.
I was right on the cusp ofdiscovering it.
This letter is between you andI.
Did you see any funny business?
If you let me be babysat by mygrandfather and his brother?

(43:32):
We lived on their farm and youknow, when I was an infant,
until about five years old, andI said some stuff came up in a
journey.
Oh, and then she told I said donot share this with the family,
I will not discuss it withanyone but you.
I said the bassinet was by thewindow, it was white and around
the window was a powder green,like pastel green, and a lot of

(43:57):
shady things happen either ifyou went in town with my father
or whatever, and I have.
She was shocked.
She said you described yourinfant room identical to what
you know here.
She said, oh, you're on drugs,you're off the deep end, blah,
blah, blah.
But she said you described theroom and she showed him my
sister.
Look what a pervert yourbrother is.
Look what he's trying to accuseme of doing.

(44:18):
She was a toxic narcissist andI don't say that lightly.

(44:43):
I have compassion fornarcissists.
So many people disregard it.
But when no one paid attentionto you, you, you, you become
even opening that can of worms.
But I wanted healing to happen.
And here's the irony After myfirst constellation in LA.
So Margo Riddler was the one Imet in LA.
We did stuff at my house.
She started holding localworkshops.
I told my massage clients thatI would go to be clients and

(45:04):
just support by being a rep.
And a woman, an Irish woman,happened to be there.
She didn't know my mom was ofIrish.
What I thought was Italianheritage or Irish and Jewish, is
what it really turned out to beunbeknownst to me.
And she said you know, I feelsomething with my heart.
I knew my mother had beginningof congestive heart failure.
And she said I think there'ssome incest in your mother's

(45:26):
thing.
So I go home I was in LA and Igo home for Thanksgiving, I fly
back or whatever and at theThanksgiving table my mother
says, oh, I was sexually abused.
I didn't say anything about theconsolation Right, didn't
mention.
I said, oh, I discoveredsomething new, I'm experimenting
with blah, blah, blah.
And she oh, yeah, I wassexually abused by my first
cousin, albert, at four yearsold, and I don't know what

(45:49):
happened, but they had to moveout of Boston after that event.
So, fast forward, my sister, myyoungest sister, was sexually
abused by my mother's secondhusband's son, named albert, at
four years old.
Oh wow, same name, same age.
And we did not know that storytill what?

(46:12):
40 years after the originalevent or 50 years after that
event.
So look at how the template wasestablished with the name and
the age.
It's like defies quantumphysics, how that invisible
template.
And that's what Helen wouldtell us.
He said you think you're thefirst.
He said you're just the latestiteration of the same drama and

(46:35):
how you deal with it is what'sunique.
And if you can escape it iseven more unique.
And constellations offer us ayeah To finish the past and not
let it rule us in the presentand future.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
You know, and I love that saying it's like history
doesn't repeat itself.
It often rhymes Right Isbecause it may skip a generation
, but you may, you know, be in arelationship with abusive
person, or you may be the abuserin a relationship and then like
and it skips generations, butit has almost a.
I've always had this thoughtthat it has like a probabilistic

(47:08):
math to it, right, it's like ifyou have an you know this
childhood wound and it lookslike this there are
probabilities of you being in arelationship or being the person
that's doing this stuff in yourlifetime will repeat itself is
of 82%.
You know that you have thatRight.
And it's like um, I think thatthere's a momentum to it and,

(47:29):
and as we heal, the power ofthat momentum goes away, like we
grow out of that old pattern insome way.
It's like it loses its oxygen.
It's still there.
It doesn't mean it doesn'thappen.
It doesn't mean that it didn'thappen again, but it loses that
oxygen.
And I've seen this with my ownkids.
Right, I've got an 11 year andan eight year old.
It's that as they are growingup and they have, there's

(47:52):
patterns that show up.
I work and I deal with that andI'm like, oh crap.
I deal with that thing and youknow, whether that's anxiety or
whatever that is, I deal with it.
And then it's like, OK, thatthat seems it's dealt with right
.
And then the next thing, it'slike, okay, well, this is the
next thing that we have to dealwith and I deal with that, and
then I do my own work and domany different modalities of

(48:13):
healing, but it's worth itbecause it can change.
I think this has the power ofchanging the world no-transcript

(48:56):
.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
The common man and ultimately, I feel the biggest
perpetrator goal in the worldright now is to create
starvation for complete controlof a society, and people better
be aware of that when they startgoing after the farmers.
Internationally, it's America,it's everybody at the same time.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
So it's yeah, you brought up Jan-Jakob Stamm and
you know we were.
He'd come to a facilitation, toa workshop in Miami and was
facilitating it.
And so I got to do systemictraining with Jan Jagerstam
which was really.
Fantastic.
And so he, you know he wasdoing the class and he was
asking and doing stuff andsomebody asked him, like you
know, jan, what would you liketo work on?

(49:35):
What is your goal next?
And he's very elegant and tall.
I know tall.
Yeah, put his hand on his chinand he said what it truly means
to assume responsibility.
And that hit me like a ton ofbricks, and that's what I think
this work does is.
It is a profound assumption ofresponsibility because if you

(49:58):
can change, if you can heal you,you the echoes of your healing
will revert, will reverberatethroughout society, right and
throughout your system,throughout your home throughout
your social system throughoutthe city, throughout the state,
throughout, and the more peoplethat we connect on these
conversations, you obviouslyhave had a major impact with
20,000 people doing this stuffright.

(50:20):
How many people has that changed?
And I think that that has a wayof changing the course of a
country Absolutely, of a societyof a planet, if enough people
put you know that into thosesystems that can really really
do that.
And then we see the systemicresistance emerge Right, exactly
Like the you know stuff thatyou see with you know the

(50:43):
pendulum swinging the other way,but it seems like it goes into
this you know certain direction,towards connection rather than
disconnection over manyiterations.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
You know one nugget that Bert often said which
really applies to this.
Some of the simplest sentenceshad the deepest reverberation.
Here's one direct from BertHellinger Children blame.
Adults take responsibility.
Yeah, and if you look at that,if you're 50, 60, my age, 70,

(51:17):
blaming your parents for this,that and the other thing, you're
still a child.
And if you look at, I mean, youknow not to diss the United
States, but it's like we'vebecome a nanny state and the
governments are allegedly goodor bad parent and we remain
children so struggling tosurvive in a progressive tax
system that we can't worry thatit's being organized the way.

(51:37):
It is kind of against us withour own money.
That's the cosmic irony.
The government does whatever itdoes, positive or negative,
with our own money, more oftenagainst us rather than for us.
So then we'll blamecollectively in America.
Oh, it's the government's fault.
It's the government's fault.
Well, that gives us children.
And then we want to hold thegovernment's feet to the fire,

(51:59):
which our founding fathersalways thought free press would
do.
that Our founding fathers didnot see corporate press taking
over information way back whenthey thought that the people,
the people's voice and the presswould hold the government
officials' feet to the fire.
And the Second Amendment if theFirst Amendment fails with free

(52:19):
press, the Second Amendmentthere say we're armed and we
feel differently than you andwe're going to show you, you
know, hopefully nonviolently,but we have the power to throw
you out of office, so we get agovernment that serves us rather
than doesn't serve us.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
So there was a I love this, this comic bit, and it's
it's by Pogo.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
It's very similar to me.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
It says we found the enemy and they is us yeah, you
know it's like if we, and that'sthe kind of the whole zulu one.
The concept is that we are oneconsciousness, right, if we, we
are, we connect to thismorphogenetic field, whatever
you want to call it, the fieldof you know, the, the knowing
field, the, the field ofconsciousness, whatever you want
to call that thing, it meansthat we can represent each other

(53:05):
in such a profound way that istruer than truth.
It's the bedrock of reality thatyou're connecting to, that
we're a mother that you've nevermet, that you're suddenly
representing.
You say a word.
That was the thing that they'vealways said.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
That's what they call them as a little child, right,
it's like you know, you've seenthis pattern amount how many
times a million times right.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
It's amazing, this power, that it's undeniable
20,000 people doing the sameconstellation over and over and
over and over and over.
It's like you turn on the light, it's like you turn on internet
.
It happens every singlefreaking time.
You put the people in the room,you're going to get a
constellation and you're goingto get the profound insight and
blows everybody's mind.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I know it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
lasting healing for generations is like well, this
stuff is magic, there's no otherway.
It's a miracle that this stuffhappens and I'm just always so
in awe of when you know peopleyou know get spun up in the
vortexes, right of like.
You know this happens in myfamily, right, they're like oh,

(54:11):
this versus them and the thingis like that's okay.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
We're doing constellations.
There's amazing people outthere doing constellations and
breaking these patterns.
Yeah, and my trust, becausehope is a noble failure, right?
Michelle Blechner said that andI love that Hope is is is
failing nobly right that I trustthat there's enough of us and
there's enough momentum thatthis conversation is happening,

(54:38):
that you're out there with a20,000 people, that you've done
19,000 people, that you've doneconstellations.
With that we're shifting theconsciousness and the momentum
of this planet.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Now, what's amazing about the work?
I don't know about you, butit's so hard to convince people.
People get into such a place ofavoidance where they make up
any excuse not to be there, evensometimes when they're a paying
client or whatever sometimeswhen they're a paying client or
whatever, but it's any modalitywhere people I had people in the

(55:12):
room in LA for my weeklyworkshops who never paid for a
session but were there everyweek.
So when the client had pickedjust an attendee named Mary to
be at her father's side becauseshe missed the flight and her
father died in the hospital, theplane was delayed and the
father died.
She could be there after hedied, but she wasn't at his
death.
The person she picked missedthe flight for their father's

(55:33):
death.
Now another woman who was.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
You can't call that coincidence, I know that's
something else.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Another woman from the Amazon.
We're talking about the Amazonjungle, not Brazil, not a city.
Her mother had 20, 27 children.
So when you don't have TV inSouth America, you end up uh not
much to do, so she she was the10th born of her family system

(56:04):
and her mother divorced thefather.
She was tired of having childrenafter they all grew up, so she
divorced the father because shedidn't want to birth any more
children, move to Rio de Janeiro, whatever.
But she had picked a whitewoman in the room who was the
10th of 16.
Wow, the exact birth order.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Not as many kids.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
I said what are the odds of that?
So those people who were pickedin those roles were getting
healed by being in the presenceof the room without even being
the client.
And I said why is it so hard forpeople to come to this work
realizing and I would marketmyself that way I said when we
heal one, we heal all.

(56:45):
So just being in the presenceof this enormous field of
consciousness, my skill is thatI can read the messages quickly
that are coming to me andthrough me and I always used it
as an educational experience forthe whole group, almost like
teaching the whole group quantumconsciousness and that they got
to experience with that.

(57:06):
So I wouldn't be there just forthe client.
I was taking the whole group onthe client's journey to educate
them about the systemicprinciples and asking them how
it fit with their life.
So I viewed myself as a teacher, and number one.
The field of consciousness ofthe teacher, the client, is the
vehicle to get to it and then toshare that wisdom and knowledge

(57:27):
with all the people inattendance who took time out of
their day of their life to havean amazing experience that
they'll never forget.
You know, with me as thefacilitator or whoever they end
up going to.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yeah, and that's you know, one of the things that I,
that I like to say duringConstellation is like you know,
I didn't, you know, I haven'trenewed my Illuminati card.
I didn't meet anybody at thecrossroads.
I didn't get abducted by aliensand this was inserted into my
consciousness.
Nothing special happened, rightthat I'm this extraordinarily
human being that has this, it'slike I truly believe that

(58:01):
everybody has the ability to dothis.
It's just hidden under thestatic and the noise of your
trauma.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
And people don't realize.
So Western culture is verymaterialistic oriented.
I wrote a book with AmitGoswami, a quantum physicist,
and he said what do you do?
Blah, blah, blah, it was thethird party got involved in us
writing a book called QuantumActivation.
So mine was all aboutconstellation, his was about
science.
And then our other author, ourCarl David Blake, was more about

(58:29):
more in the psychotherapy, howit's all integrated together,
and he said, okay, what is thestuff you do?
I said, well, think of a goal.
That is house and Eugene,oregon.
We met up there a few times tojust get the gist of the book.
Then we wrote it, still onAmazon, and I said, okay, think
of a goal, touch my shouldersand, uh, just, I will percolate

(58:51):
and tell you what's comingthrough.
I gave him this entire lifestory since birth, really
intimate details about a childloss, father's emotional.
Now this is just me, by myself,speaking about his father's
emotional to the mother, to thechild, and the grief and what
happens in the child born afterthe miscarriage or whatever, and

(59:13):
the grief and what happens inthe child born after the
miscarriage or whatever.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
And he's there, I have to rethink quantum physics
after meeting you I said well,you know consciousness.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
He's a proponent that we're conscious, the universe
is conscious and humanity's gonedown the wrong path by only
accepting materialism as real,when consciousness is actually
more real than materialism.
But the human psyche wants tobe 3D, physical and not include.
I mean what I view it as.
Everything comes from an ideaof God, creator, whatever
goddess, whatever you want tocall it, then it turns into a

(59:48):
thought, then it turns intophysical reality.
But it always comes from that,like we were talking at the
beginning about music, it'scoming from this realm of
creativity.
It's always there.
We can't see it or feel it, butit's dropping a song into us,
it's dropping an insight in themiddle of a constellation that
came out of nowhere.
Bert would always say duringthe work he said you know, I

(01:00:10):
thought we were going one wayand I just got this insight of
what the real issue is and Iwould always pride myself.
And while I was going, I knewBert would probably do that in
the training and I said what'sthe deeper thing going on here?
And even consolationfacilitators would reject me
being the renegade, even in theconsolation community.

(01:00:32):
So we had Heinz talking tosomeone, a young girl, who's
definitely playing the righteousvictim car, but she's cute and
Heinz was like romanticallycharged by her.
We all knew it.
It was no secret.
So he said okay, you're in yourfinal week of training with me.

(01:00:56):
When you hear her talk about herissue, what do you hear?
He went through 22 of us.
Then he got to me and I said ababy starved to death from
hunger.
It was left by the side of theroad.
Everyone looked at me.
What the fuck are you talkingabout?
That was nothing of what shesaid.
Where do you get this?
Like erroneous, I said.
You asked me my thoughts.
That's what I tuned into.

(01:01:17):
Two hours later, baby left tothe side of road who died of
hunger, going from like Moscowto Poland to survive the Russian
, bolshevik, whatever revolution150 years ago.
So I knew I had a tuning intosomething that was so bizarre

(01:01:38):
people which is very similar toBert and that insight, and he
and I just connected like wewere so buddy buddy every time.
What is it with you and Bert?
You know, and I'll tell you aquick story about that, I did
not know this at the time.
So we were all struggling asfacilitators at the end of our
training to get people to aworkshop.
So we had facilitated meetingsevery quarter, about every three

(01:01:59):
months.
How's your practice?
Any clients coming?
Blah, blah, blah.
And then we said, ok, why isn'tConstellations flying in LA, of
all cities, people are creative,theatrical, blah, blah, blah.
La, of all cities, people arecreative, they're theatrical,
blah, blah, blah.
And so they said, gary, wouldyou represent Bert?

(01:02:20):
And I said, yeah, no problem.
And they picked another guy torepresent Constellations not
working in LA.
Well, the Constellation guyfell to the floor, the rep for
Constellations in LA.
We were so specific and we're apart of Heinz Group and I was
there.
They said, well, how do youfeel?
It still touches me to this day.

(01:02:40):
I said I don't care aboutanything except picking this guy
up off the ground, I don't careabout constantly, I don't care
about money, I don't care aboutanything.
Picking him up, and you know wejust hugged and cried together.
Picking him up, and you know wejust hugged and cried together.
It still touches me very deeply.
So here we are, two or threeyears later at Bert's training
in Austria, and he said mybiggest pain is my older brother

(01:03:04):
was constricted by Hitler andnever returned.
So in a way I felt in thelarger cosmos.
Bert had known somehow, eventhough I never told him the
story, that I had connected himto his brother.
I didn't know until he madethat statement and that he was.
Everyone said why is Bert sobuddy-buddy?

(01:03:25):
You're like he would come up tome after the workshop.
Do you think I covered all thepoints?
Did I miss anything?
They said why is Bert?
He wouldn't talk to anyone.
He had like blinders on.
Just you know I'm going todinner.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
I've given I've given all my blood.
Yeah, that's hard, that's realhard.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
He'd come over to me and say did I, did I miss
anything?
Did I cover anything?
And the highest compliment heever gave me, he asked me to do
a paragraph above his bookcalled lawss of Healing Weirdly,
you know, an intro paragraph tothe book before it was
published, and he loved what Iwrote.
And then Sophie Hellingererased my name and put Bert
Hellinger under my writing afterBert had died and I thought,

(01:04:03):
wow, that's so disrespectful.
But after I wrote thatparagraph, he said you
understand my work better thanme.
Paragraph he said youunderstand my work better than
me.
And just the way I couldexpress it in writing and he was
an author too, he was a writingand I didn't take that as any
arrogant.
I thought the highest complimentI could ever get from my
teacher is that kind of cerebralunderstanding, plus the

(01:04:27):
emotional vulnerability side ofit and the humbleness about it.
I never did this to be arrogant.
Like I know better, I alwayscome with the points like I know
nothing.
Let my client teach me where Ineed to go, what I need to learn
.
They're my teacher to guide meto the bigger field that knows
everything and I'm just atransistor to communicate yeah,
makes sense.
And open my heart to a deeperlevel and open my heart to a

(01:04:49):
deeper level.
You know the perpetrator stuff.
What's happening with somefacilitators?
I know they're making judgmentabout the perpetrator energy
because they're stuck in duality.
You have to come from a neutralplace where you're not judging
jury for anything.
That perpetrator energy has aton of information that can be

(01:05:11):
data mined and transformed forthe client and I've had the
toughest cases.
I almost feel the field istesting me.
I had two generations ofsatanic sacrifice in the same
family.
I've had multiple sexual abuse.
I had one woman I did aworkshop in Calgary.
Her 13-year-oldgreat-great-grandmother was

(01:05:32):
raped in the rectory by thepriest after Sunday school and
it was the only time I everbrought in Jesus or Mary into a
consolation to protect thatlittle girl inside the.
Mexican Catholic church, butthey migrated to Calgary.
Now here's what I said to thegroup Would the client be here
working on this?
If that rape didn't happen, shewouldn't exist.

(01:05:54):
Yeah, so I'm not saying whatthe priest did was right, but
life didn't seem to care how itexpressed itself and the way I
had the male rep as the priestface the wall and I said look up
at a big cross above you andjust say this forgive me, father
, I have sinned.

(01:06:15):
And then I had the client withVirgin Mary, with her being a
pure woman who was above sin,just being held by a woman to
protect her from that nastyevent that befell that
13-year-old girl who did notknow she'd be a
great-grandmother in 40 years.

(01:06:35):
So it's like the field works inmysterious ways.
Can we be open to the mystery?
Can an average facilitator beopen to the mystery of not
understanding and letting thefield come to us?
We don't own this field.
We're the communicators for it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Yeah, that's one of the things that's come up for me
.
A lot is you know, I've beenI've been involved with
constellations since 2008,.
Right, and I've studied manymodalities and I didn't feel
like I was ready to facilitateuntil many, many, many, many,
many years into this.
Like, oh, I know, you know, Iwas like.
And then you hear people like I, I know constellations, I'm a
facilitator.
It's like I've been doing thisfor a year and you're like are
you?

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
serious that is.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
That is wild to me.
People, it's, it's, it's your,you know.
I think that's a bit of wherethat arrogance a bit of the
arrogance comes from is that youhave people that just don't.
I had to lose people.
I had to add people to my life.
I had to, you know, be marriedfor a long time, like, go

(01:07:35):
through some trials andtribulations, grow as a human
being at 42 years old.
That I'm saying, you know.
Like I haven't, I've beenfacilitating for a while, but
you know, to be able to gothrough life and and now I'm
like I, I believe that I'm readyto be able to do this and I do
it with such a high level of, of, of patience and and tenderness

(01:07:56):
and and care for the processand the integrity of, of holding
that space for people to beable to, to deepen, to go into
that, and I think the more andI've seen this in facilitators
that I really respect that themore integral you are or the
more integrity you approach it,the deeper you can go.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Absolutely.
And the humbler If Bert andeven 9 Stark and Bert, the
humbler you can be, the moreyou'll receive the gift, because
actually you know everything.
If we boil things down to itscommon denominator, simplest
essence, it's our ability orinability to receive.

(01:08:37):
We can judge life, we can judgeour parents, we can judge how
it came, we can judge where wewent through.
I don't want to say no to that.
We're all cerebral human beings.
We have our own belief systemsand thoughts to keep us alive,
so we don't throw the baby outwith the bathwater.
Keep us alive, so we don'tthrow the baby out with the
bathwater.
If I had to be defensive againstwhat I like in my childhood is
living in LA, I would see emptyparking lots with one weed

(01:09:00):
growing in the asphalt in athree-acre parking lot.
I said in my family system I'mthat weed.
You can drive over me, you canbeat me.
I'm going to find enoughsustenance to grow amidst a
place where no life would grow.
So I feel like this is bizarre,but I identify like as a weed
in my family system thatcouldn't be stamped out or

(01:09:22):
squashed out and that's also asign of strength against all
odds.
So I bring that strength to thework that I did not know that
those kind of negativeexperiences would make me strong
and compassionate andcourageous to face anything,
because I've been through itmyself.
It's resilience at its core,yeah, and have compassion for

(01:09:43):
people's pain.
The details may be different,but it's still pain, yeah, you
know, and just having compassionthat they did that.
Or, the biggest thing aboutbeing a facilitator is they're
trusting you with their soul.
Can you be the first person onearth that they open their soul
to, to show you the wound and tobe guided to heal that wound in

(01:10:09):
a loving way, in acompassionate even if it's not
loving, compassionate way, agentle way to show them, hey, we
can open a different window andyou can look at that through a
different window, rather thanthe window you've been looking
at it for, you know, since theevents happened, and that's the
biggest thing you know openingthe conscious, the consciousness

(01:10:31):
of the entire room and theclient simultaneously.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Yeah, and that's one thing that I'm I'm always in awe
of is how courageous people are.
You know, they just sit in thatchair and they're just so
courageous to you know, do that?
It's just so humbling to be acustodian of that process.
In some way it's just a Sherpaof that process.
And, man, Gary, this has beenan incredible conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Oh, beginning of many more, anytime, you know, I'd
love to.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
I'd love to have you back and we could have this
conversation over and over again.
I know you have a wealth ofknowledge.
Oh yeah, so many experiences Alot of a lot of experience, and
this is this has been trulybeautiful and and know that you
have a friend that's rooting foryou in South Florida and that
you know anything that you need,we'll, we'll be here to support
you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Well, yeah, also put me on your workshop list,
because if I get referrals fromanywhere, I always refer people
where I'm not doing the work asmuch anymore.
I'm doing more private sessionswith people that aren't afraid
to go really deep.
I love it.
It's still fulfilling just tokeep my fingers wet in the field
.
But I give people referralseverywhere, even people in LA.
I said I'm not going to be inLA for three months.

(01:11:43):
Go to this person's workshop.
A lot of people there used tobe my attendees who went and got
certified.
Now they lead their own group.
So it's about you know,expanding consciousness globally
.
It's not about me, it's aboutyou know, and I see all these
international conferences.
Shabasti, john Payne he has agreat video on forgiveness one
of the best descriptions I'veseen.

(01:12:04):
So share that to a client thathas talked about forgiveness.
He did a great video.
I'll send you my acceptanceover forgiveness essay that I
wrote.
That's probably in one of mybooks here.
So, yeah, just keep it outthere.
Earth needs more consciousness.
Yes, 100%.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
So how do people get a hold of you if they want to
ask you a question, if they wantto connect with you on social
media?
How does that happen?

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Well, I got hacked bad on Facebook.
So, no, no, really bad.
A woman in person, a blackwoman.
I'm not and I'm not racist, butit's my picture with a black
woman's name on.
Facebook with 5000 followers aweek before I released my book.
I was like, but they couldalways email me, gary at
Sheafield, and I have one quickthing to end with.

(01:12:55):
I have Gary Stewart HealingS-T-U-A-R-T.
Healingcom.
There's a wealth of information, faqs, talking about
constellations, the process.
But my newest book, which I'mworking on right now, is about
AI factor fiction the BeastUnchained so I'm working on it
right now is about AI factorfiction the Beast Unchained so
I'm working on it right now.
And what I want to reiterate toeveryone we're into machine

(01:13:19):
learning.
Now I rebranded my website sothey mirror each page, mirrors
each other.
It's calledancestralintelligencecom.
I love that.
So we have a built-in AI that'sa thousand years old, with a
million experiences of traumaand survival that our entire
ancestry filtered into our DNA.

(01:13:40):
We wouldn't be here if theyweren't a success.
That's where a lot of peoplebad family system.
This happened, that happened.
Well, guess what?
They were successful becauseyou're here and you're alive, so
they did something good.
If nothing else, they keptfucking every generation.
So you could be here in the 21stcentury.
So I want to be the antithesisto the.

(01:14:02):
I'm not against AI, but themachine learning here's my thing
that I'm really fighting withover this.
Ancestral intelligence hasheart and soul and we can make a
decision, a gut feeling.
Ai is mental of facts andfigures.
Maybe it'll become sentient oneday, but at the moment it's all

(01:14:25):
mental.
And what I'm studying about AI,it's having hallucinations.
I had typed a piece of my bookin who's going to dominate AI?
And I asked an AI chatbot whatdo you think?
It said well, with Joe Biden,president.
Blah, blah, blah.
So AI was never fed.
And then at the end it gives adisclaimer I was only programmed

(01:14:47):
up till July 24th, so the AIbot did not know the election
happened and Joe Biden was nolonger the president.
But if you look at the thinggarbage in, garbage out whoever
programs the AI is going toprogram their bias into it.
So you could see from that AI'sanswer Democrats were obviously

(01:15:08):
the programmers, because theydidn't even include.
So I just want to stand up forhumanity.
That our gut instinct.
If something's truthful, rightor wrong, a machine trained bot
will not have that informationand we're going down the
technological road.
Not that it's a bad road, butit's incomplete and we already

(01:15:28):
have so much wisdom inside of us.
We don't need a machine to tellus what's good, bad, right,
wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
And you know I want to definitely schedule once the
book's out that we have you backon the podcast to have that
conversation.
I think that is such a coolconversation because
constellation systems and allthis stuff together is a really,
really, really.
Exactly yeah it's a reallychunky one.
I love, I love to have thatconversation, and that's my goal
.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
That's my goal with the book too to open people that
were already geniuses.
We don't need a machine to be agenius for us.

Speaker 1 (01:16:01):
Exactly so, Gary.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it Me too.
You're a prince, Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks for tuning in to theZulu One podcast.
If you found value in today'spodcast, please don't forget to
like, share and subscribe.
Your support means everythingto us and thank you for being
part of this journey.

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09. Healing the Family Wounds You Didn’t Cause | Gary Stuart

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}09. Healing the Family Wounds You Didn’t Cause | Gary Stuart