August 2, 2021 • 13 mins
As Gandhi continues week 2 off her 'Off The Grid" adventure, we talk with Pavia Rosati about how to not be a tourist. Pavia Rosati has a book called "Travel North America (And Avoid Being A Tourist)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
To what would you talk about on your on your
podcast fine morning show. You know who we have on
the phone right now. It's Pavia Rosatti. She's this incredible
author and expert of everything about travel, and right now
(00:22):
she's got this book out which is really interesting. I
want you to hear about it. The timing could not
be more perfect for Gandhias especially. It's called travel North
America and Avoid being a Tourist, which is great advice.
It's it's easier to say than actually do. So why
did you want to write a book about I think
this is your second in this series, right, how to
travel without being really touristy? Correct? Um So, the first
(00:48):
book that I wrote with Gerlyn Gerba, who is my
co founder. Also we have a travel website called fathom
um we this was this is how we've always thought
about travel and how we've done everything. The first book
was called Travel Anywhere parentheses and Avoid being a Tourist,
and in this book we were focused on North America.
The timing ended up being right because this came out
(01:10):
at a time when Americans really are staying local, when
everybody around the world is actually staying local and really
close to home. It's been this global phenomenon in travel
that Italians are discovering Italy, the French are discovering France,
and Americans are discovering America. Yeah, exactly, it's beautiful. You know,
(01:32):
we think when we need to travel that we need
to go really far away, we need to be jet lagged.
It doesn't count if I'm not in another part of
the world, and that's really not true. You can travel,
you can. I mean I usually live in New York City.
I can hop on a subway and go to neighborhood
and queens have never been to. I'll hear a language
I don't know, I'll eat um foods that I don't
(01:53):
know um, and that can be a travel experience. Also, Elvis,
to answer your question the idea about why being a
tourist or why why you don't want to be a
traveler tourist you want to be a traveler, it's more
because it's a more open minded mindset. If you are
a traveler, then if you are a tourist, and that's
what we really like to tap into, and I think
(02:15):
you'd probably like to tap into that. Also, Oh absolutely,
you know, I my friends get mad at me when
we go to Paris or something. Let's go to the loop.
I'm like, I don't need to go to the Loop.
I can go to Google. I can google Mona Lisa,
She's right there. Yes, I don't need to. That's what
gets me mad when I go to England, because I
like to travel with someone who knows where we are
and they know the good food, and like, Oh, England,
the food is disgusting. I'm like, but you're just not
(02:37):
eating at the right places. You're eating at the tourist traps. Yeah,
if the menu has pictures on it, don't go there. Listen.
I I have a rule of thumb that if it's
written in certain languages, don't go there because it's catering
to a foreign audience by definition. Hey, so here's Gandhi
in the middle of the Grand Canyon where it's actually
(02:58):
it's kind of good to do a few touristy things
while you're there, because that's how you experience it, right.
There's nothing wrong with doing touristy things if you do
them the right way. If you go to if you've
never been to the Louver, the Louver is exquisite. If
you like art, what a treasure of places if you
go to Rome and don't go to the Vatican, you've
really missed out. But there's a there's a smarter way
(03:21):
to do all of these touristy things. So maybe you
go in the off hours when there are fewer people,
so you can feel like you're enjoying it more and
able and not being kind of pushed through um with
the equivalent of a double deck or bus full of people.
So touristy and touristy things, a lot of them got
to be that way because they're totally awesome. But it's
(03:43):
the way that you experience them that can either be
as a traveler or as a tourist. Well that's the
that's all inspiring thing you can do right here in
the United States. You don't have to whip out your
passport and fly over the Atlantic to find stuff like that.
And you're also going through New Mexico on your road trip,
on your way to ultimately end up in Sequoia and
your and Yosemite. New Mexico is like the hot air
(04:06):
ballooning capital of America. That think about taking a hot
air balloon ride up in the sky at the break
of dawn. Come on, that's gonna stay with you forever.
There are so many experiences. So my question to you is,
I go with a lot of the touristy things, and
I booked through tour companies for safety reasons. So I think, Okay,
(04:27):
they know exactly where we're gonna go, they know the terrain,
they know what we're supposed to bring, They'll have doctors
and medics and all the medicine that I need if
I do this stuff. But when you do that, you're right,
you do end up in these tourist traps and you
do go to the places. So what is your advice
for kind of staying safe and going off the beaten
path a little bit? Because I want to do both.
So what what you're tapping into is why it's incredibly
(04:51):
useful and smart to work with an expert. But if
you work with a local expert, you're going to have
a more intimate experience than if you work with somebody
who has an office in every single country on Earth. Right,
So the key is, find a local fixer, find a
local expert's and that's how you will have a quieter,
(05:11):
more intimate experience and yet still be safe, which right now,
more than ever, is a really important part of traveling
making sure that you're staying safe and that you know
what the local rules are. Wow, you know I know
something about you. This is Pavio Rosatti, by the way,
if you're just listening in, uh, co founder of Fathom
(05:32):
Travel right and author of a new book, Travel North
America and Avoid being a tourist. Now, we went on
a vacation. What three weeks ago? How long ago was it? Yea,
I have something in common with Pavia. My bag is
still packed from vacation, and I think I think there's
a wet swimsuit or oh nice and moldy. I love it.
(05:53):
You know what, Elvis, there are some things I just
kind of never take them out of the suitcase. I
hate unpacking so much. I'm a champion packer. I can
pack really well, super efficiently, really fast. Um but I
hate unpacking and my suitcase will sometimes stay in my
bedroom for like a month, almost a month. Also, you
(06:15):
like sitting at the bulkhead seat in an airplane. I
can't do it because I don't have anywhere to put
my stuff underneath me too. Um well, that's why when
you get on a plane you have a little go bag, right,
You only if you're in a bulkhead seat, you only
need to stow your bag during takeoff and landing, right,
So what you do is you put your essential thing
like the book I want to read, because they won't
(06:35):
let you keep your phone on, so you keep the
essential thing that you want to read, or the magazine
or a tissue, chapstick, your eye drops, whatever those essential
things are. You pull that out of your bag, stow it,
and then as soon as you have reached your cruising
altitude and it's safe to unbuckle your seatbelt, you can
take your bag down. Bulkhead. Yeah, bulkhead is business class
(06:57):
on the cheep. Yeah, I mean what was it was,
especially before you had to pay for um bulkhead seats.
Now the airlines make you pay for a glass of water,
so you know, it's not as easy to call it
business class for free, but it's certainly business class for
much cheaper. More people take you long legs. Yeah, yeah,
more people than ever before, Paula are wanting to get
back out on the road and they want to travel.
(07:17):
But we've we've been just bursting at the door to
try to get out to the car and go. And
what Gandhi's doing Uh, it's we're all. We're all very
very very jealous. Um. When I have a question, can
I ask you a question? Yeah, I heard that you
like to go to the supermarket in all different locations
that you travel. What's the coolest thing you found in
a supermarket? Like something different? All right, I'm gonna confess
(07:41):
something pretty dorky. Um. So, I'd like to bring things
home that are really beautifully packaged. So if you open
my fridge, it's like the United Nations of spices, right.
I have jars and weird things and jellies. I have
a papaya coconut jelly from Sri Lanka. My husband is like,
this thing needs to start paying rent, Like, we've got
to get rid of them. This is a memory drawer
(08:02):
for me. Um. I'm a big laundry person, So when
any anytime I go to Italy, I bring home, like
laundry detergent to hand wash my sweaters. The boys, I
know you're sitting there rolling your eyes at this. This
is such a dorky thing to do. Um. But uh yeah,
so I sometimes will bring home laundry detergent. Some things
that smell they just smell better, um, spices. Uh So,
(08:27):
I'm in Portugal right now, and the thing to bring
home are beautiful canned sardines and little tinned fish. They're
super beautiful. They make great souvenirs, beautiful packaging, several things
first of all, spices and things. Yeah, we I want
to I want you to give us a few fresh
ideas of where to travel in the United States of America. Uh,
because you know where Gandhi is to get Grand Canyon. Well, yeah,
(08:49):
we've all heard about. We all want to go. There
are some other places that we should consider that maybe
we haven't considered it. And And I'm gonna give you one
for European just said Portugal. Portugal is to fly into
Lisabon from New York. It's really one of the shortest
European air flights from here. In Portugal is incredible. It's
like San Francisco in Europe because you have the hills,
(09:09):
you have cable cars, you have water, the food, the people,
and it's a little less expensive in my opinion than
going to London or Paris or one of the others,
or San Francisco. I mean, San Francisco is one of
the most expensive cities in America. Porto yesterday we had
two coffees for three euros. Like you just where do
you get in? It's inexpensive, it's charming. Um. So I'm
in Porto, which is the second city in the north.
(09:31):
This is where they make all the port um There's
a new, massive, beautiful wine complex called World of Wine
that opened during the pandemic. And you come here and
you can learn all about the history of wines in Portugal,
the history of cork, which is the most amazing treat
you've ever heard of, so much more than a bottle stopper,
the history of fashion, it's incredible. All the stuff that's
over here. To answer your question about where to go
(09:54):
if you don't want to go to the Grand Canyon,
know the really big, big places we have all these
incredible state parks, right and all these national parks that
are smaller and not as big. So where Gandhi just
went through. Did you make it to White Sands National
Park any chance? Yes? So in New Mexico. So their
fields so imagine they're like fields of white dunes. You
(10:16):
think you're in the Sahara Desert. It's finally ground gypsum
um and you can ride horseback, you can camp, and
you're in this like beautiful desert scape of like white dunes.
It's amazing. So around you gotta tart it around. Well listen,
but here's what's so great. Like you're in a car,
you have so much freedom to be able to pive
(10:39):
it and say no, let's go here, let's go there.
You're a little self contained bubble of fun. You don't
need to worry about a hotel room because you're gonna
be because you're right there. So national parks, the country
is really rich with so many of them. Utah is
the gift that keeps on giving. I mean it doesn't
matter where. Scenic Root twelve in Utah is one of
the most beautiful drives I've ever done. Yes, there's Bryce,
(11:01):
and there's Zion, there's all these things you've heard of.
There's a park called Coda Chrome State Park, like it
is because of these incredible colors. And then in one
of the parts that remember which one, you kind of
just turn right and in two miles or in this
incredible place, they have something called Ancestors Alley where you
can still see scratched into the rock the graffiti of
(11:22):
who went through there, like jeb in eight seventy four,
it's still there the git. Yeah, that's incredible. So there
are billions of places to go in the United States
and you don't have to be It doesn't have to
be a big hot spot for tourists. Go there, eat
the local food, go to the local grocery store, by
(11:43):
the local stuff, and take it home. This is all
great information and we're just scratching the service I can tell.
So I'm I can't wait to pick up your book
Travel North America. Avoid being a tourist because we all
need it now more than ever. And Pab it's great
having you on our show today. Thank you your time.
You could not have been better. Well, thank you so much. U.
We have in addition to the book, if I may,
we have the website fathom away dot com. So thank you.
(12:08):
Know that's very nice of you. Fathom away dot com. Okay,
h O M A W A Y dot com, um Our,
Instagram or Fathom way to Go. We love when people
tag their photos travel with fathom Okay, you're going to
go fast? Okay, Fathom way to go Okay, Fathom way
to go. Yeah. And you know when people tag their
(12:29):
photos travel with Fathom, we reshare them because we love
to see and we get so much inspiration from where
other people have been because it's not just the travel
experts who know where to go, it's the locals who
find great things and share them that really helps us
find and share great places all over the world. Oh
my god, a splash of Cova in your cocktails. Yeah, excellent,
(12:53):
Pavio Rosatti's with us. Thank you so much for your
time and your thank you all. You know, traveling is learning.
Learning is what we need to be doing more of
getting out of our safe space and sometimes moving into
someone else's safe space. That's where that's where learning truly begins.
Thank you, Pavia. To have Pavia have a great day. Okay,
thank you so much. The Fifteen Minute Morning Show
To what would you talk about on your on your
podcast fine morning show. You know who we have on
the phone right now. It's Pavia Rosatti. She's this incredible
author and expert of everything about travel, and right now
(00:22):
she's got this book out which is really interesting. I
want you to hear about it. The timing could not
be more perfect for Gandhias especially. It's called travel North
America and Avoid being a Tourist, which is great advice.
It's it's easier to say than actually do. So why
did you want to write a book about I think
this is your second in this series, right, how to
travel without being really touristy? Correct? Um So, the first
(00:48):
book that I wrote with Gerlyn Gerba, who is my
co founder. Also we have a travel website called fathom
um we this was this is how we've always thought
about travel and how we've done everything. The first book
was called Travel Anywhere parentheses and Avoid being a Tourist,
and in this book we were focused on North America.
The timing ended up being right because this came out
(01:10):
at a time when Americans really are staying local, when
everybody around the world is actually staying local and really
close to home. It's been this global phenomenon in travel
that Italians are discovering Italy, the French are discovering France,
and Americans are discovering America. Yeah, exactly, it's beautiful. You know,
(01:32):
we think when we need to travel that we need
to go really far away, we need to be jet lagged.
It doesn't count if I'm not in another part of
the world, and that's really not true. You can travel,
you can. I mean I usually live in New York City.
I can hop on a subway and go to neighborhood
and queens have never been to. I'll hear a language
I don't know, I'll eat um foods that I don't
(01:53):
know um, and that can be a travel experience. Also, Elvis,
to answer your question the idea about why being a
tourist or why why you don't want to be a
traveler tourist you want to be a traveler, it's more
because it's a more open minded mindset. If you are
a traveler, then if you are a tourist, and that's
what we really like to tap into, and I think
(02:15):
you'd probably like to tap into that. Also, Oh absolutely,
you know, I my friends get mad at me when
we go to Paris or something. Let's go to the loop.
I'm like, I don't need to go to the Loop.
I can go to Google. I can google Mona Lisa,
She's right there. Yes, I don't need to. That's what
gets me mad when I go to England, because I
like to travel with someone who knows where we are
and they know the good food, and like, Oh, England,
the food is disgusting. I'm like, but you're just not
(02:37):
eating at the right places. You're eating at the tourist traps. Yeah,
if the menu has pictures on it, don't go there. Listen.
I I have a rule of thumb that if it's
written in certain languages, don't go there because it's catering
to a foreign audience by definition. Hey, so here's Gandhi
in the middle of the Grand Canyon where it's actually
(02:58):
it's kind of good to do a few touristy things
while you're there, because that's how you experience it, right.
There's nothing wrong with doing touristy things if you do
them the right way. If you go to if you've
never been to the Louver, the Louver is exquisite. If
you like art, what a treasure of places if you
go to Rome and don't go to the Vatican, you've
really missed out. But there's a there's a smarter way
(03:21):
to do all of these touristy things. So maybe you
go in the off hours when there are fewer people,
so you can feel like you're enjoying it more and
able and not being kind of pushed through um with
the equivalent of a double deck or bus full of people.
So touristy and touristy things, a lot of them got
to be that way because they're totally awesome. But it's
(03:43):
the way that you experience them that can either be
as a traveler or as a tourist. Well that's the
that's all inspiring thing you can do right here in
the United States. You don't have to whip out your
passport and fly over the Atlantic to find stuff like that.
And you're also going through New Mexico on your road trip,
on your way to ultimately end up in Sequoia and
your and Yosemite. New Mexico is like the hot air
(04:06):
ballooning capital of America. That think about taking a hot
air balloon ride up in the sky at the break
of dawn. Come on, that's gonna stay with you forever.
There are so many experiences. So my question to you is,
I go with a lot of the touristy things, and
I booked through tour companies for safety reasons. So I think, Okay,
(04:27):
they know exactly where we're gonna go, they know the terrain,
they know what we're supposed to bring, They'll have doctors
and medics and all the medicine that I need if
I do this stuff. But when you do that, you're right,
you do end up in these tourist traps and you
do go to the places. So what is your advice
for kind of staying safe and going off the beaten
path a little bit? Because I want to do both.
So what what you're tapping into is why it's incredibly
(04:51):
useful and smart to work with an expert. But if
you work with a local expert, you're going to have
a more intimate experience than if you work with somebody
who has an office in every single country on Earth. Right,
So the key is, find a local fixer, find a
local expert's and that's how you will have a quieter,
(05:11):
more intimate experience and yet still be safe, which right now,
more than ever, is a really important part of traveling
making sure that you're staying safe and that you know
what the local rules are. Wow, you know I know
something about you. This is Pavio Rosatti, by the way,
if you're just listening in, uh, co founder of Fathom
(05:32):
Travel right and author of a new book, Travel North
America and Avoid being a tourist. Now, we went on
a vacation. What three weeks ago? How long ago was it? Yea,
I have something in common with Pavia. My bag is
still packed from vacation, and I think I think there's
a wet swimsuit or oh nice and moldy. I love it.
(05:53):
You know what, Elvis, there are some things I just
kind of never take them out of the suitcase. I
hate unpacking so much. I'm a champion packer. I can
pack really well, super efficiently, really fast. Um but I
hate unpacking and my suitcase will sometimes stay in my
bedroom for like a month, almost a month. Also, you
(06:15):
like sitting at the bulkhead seat in an airplane. I
can't do it because I don't have anywhere to put
my stuff underneath me too. Um well, that's why when
you get on a plane you have a little go bag, right,
You only if you're in a bulkhead seat, you only
need to stow your bag during takeoff and landing, right,
So what you do is you put your essential thing
like the book I want to read, because they won't
(06:35):
let you keep your phone on, so you keep the
essential thing that you want to read, or the magazine
or a tissue, chapstick, your eye drops, whatever those essential
things are. You pull that out of your bag, stow it,
and then as soon as you have reached your cruising
altitude and it's safe to unbuckle your seatbelt, you can
take your bag down. Bulkhead. Yeah, bulkhead is business class
(06:57):
on the cheep. Yeah, I mean what was it was,
especially before you had to pay for um bulkhead seats.
Now the airlines make you pay for a glass of water,
so you know, it's not as easy to call it
business class for free, but it's certainly business class for
much cheaper. More people take you long legs. Yeah, yeah,
more people than ever before, Paula are wanting to get
back out on the road and they want to travel.
(07:17):
But we've we've been just bursting at the door to
try to get out to the car and go. And
what Gandhi's doing Uh, it's we're all. We're all very
very very jealous. Um. When I have a question, can
I ask you a question? Yeah, I heard that you
like to go to the supermarket in all different locations
that you travel. What's the coolest thing you found in
a supermarket? Like something different? All right, I'm gonna confess
(07:41):
something pretty dorky. Um. So, I'd like to bring things
home that are really beautifully packaged. So if you open
my fridge, it's like the United Nations of spices, right.
I have jars and weird things and jellies. I have
a papaya coconut jelly from Sri Lanka. My husband is like,
this thing needs to start paying rent, Like, we've got
to get rid of them. This is a memory drawer
(08:02):
for me. Um. I'm a big laundry person, So when
any anytime I go to Italy, I bring home, like
laundry detergent to hand wash my sweaters. The boys, I
know you're sitting there rolling your eyes at this. This
is such a dorky thing to do. Um. But uh yeah,
so I sometimes will bring home laundry detergent. Some things
that smell they just smell better, um, spices. Uh So,
(08:27):
I'm in Portugal right now, and the thing to bring
home are beautiful canned sardines and little tinned fish. They're
super beautiful. They make great souvenirs, beautiful packaging, several things
first of all, spices and things. Yeah, we I want
to I want you to give us a few fresh
ideas of where to travel in the United States of America. Uh,
because you know where Gandhi is to get Grand Canyon. Well, yeah,
(08:49):
we've all heard about. We all want to go. There
are some other places that we should consider that maybe
we haven't considered it. And And I'm gonna give you one
for European just said Portugal. Portugal is to fly into
Lisabon from New York. It's really one of the shortest
European air flights from here. In Portugal is incredible. It's
like San Francisco in Europe because you have the hills,
(09:09):
you have cable cars, you have water, the food, the people,
and it's a little less expensive in my opinion than
going to London or Paris or one of the others,
or San Francisco. I mean, San Francisco is one of
the most expensive cities in America. Porto yesterday we had
two coffees for three euros. Like you just where do
you get in? It's inexpensive, it's charming. Um. So I'm
in Porto, which is the second city in the north.
(09:31):
This is where they make all the port um There's
a new, massive, beautiful wine complex called World of Wine
that opened during the pandemic. And you come here and
you can learn all about the history of wines in Portugal,
the history of cork, which is the most amazing treat
you've ever heard of, so much more than a bottle stopper,
the history of fashion, it's incredible. All the stuff that's
over here. To answer your question about where to go
(09:54):
if you don't want to go to the Grand Canyon,
know the really big, big places we have all these
incredible state parks, right and all these national parks that
are smaller and not as big. So where Gandhi just
went through. Did you make it to White Sands National
Park any chance? Yes? So in New Mexico. So their
fields so imagine they're like fields of white dunes. You
(10:16):
think you're in the Sahara Desert. It's finally ground gypsum
um and you can ride horseback, you can camp, and
you're in this like beautiful desert scape of like white dunes.
It's amazing. So around you gotta tart it around. Well listen,
but here's what's so great. Like you're in a car,
you have so much freedom to be able to pive
(10:39):
it and say no, let's go here, let's go there.
You're a little self contained bubble of fun. You don't
need to worry about a hotel room because you're gonna
be because you're right there. So national parks, the country
is really rich with so many of them. Utah is
the gift that keeps on giving. I mean it doesn't
matter where. Scenic Root twelve in Utah is one of
the most beautiful drives I've ever done. Yes, there's Bryce,
(11:01):
and there's Zion, there's all these things you've heard of.
There's a park called Coda Chrome State Park, like it
is because of these incredible colors. And then in one
of the parts that remember which one, you kind of
just turn right and in two miles or in this
incredible place, they have something called Ancestors Alley where you
can still see scratched into the rock the graffiti of
(11:22):
who went through there, like jeb in eight seventy four,
it's still there the git. Yeah, that's incredible. So there
are billions of places to go in the United States
and you don't have to be It doesn't have to
be a big hot spot for tourists. Go there, eat
the local food, go to the local grocery store, by
(11:43):
the local stuff, and take it home. This is all
great information and we're just scratching the service I can tell.
So I'm I can't wait to pick up your book
Travel North America. Avoid being a tourist because we all
need it now more than ever. And Pab it's great
having you on our show today. Thank you your time.
You could not have been better. Well, thank you so much. U.
We have in addition to the book, if I may,
we have the website fathom away dot com. So thank you.
(12:08):
Know that's very nice of you. Fathom away dot com. Okay,
h O M A W A Y dot com, um Our,
Instagram or Fathom way to Go. We love when people
tag their photos travel with fathom Okay, you're going to
go fast? Okay, Fathom way to go Okay, Fathom way
to go. Yeah. And you know when people tag their
(12:29):
photos travel with Fathom, we reshare them because we love
to see and we get so much inspiration from where
other people have been because it's not just the travel
experts who know where to go, it's the locals who
find great things and share them that really helps us
find and share great places all over the world. Oh
my god, a splash of Cova in your cocktails. Yeah, excellent,
(12:53):
Pavio Rosatti's with us. Thank you so much for your
time and your thank you all. You know, traveling is learning.
Learning is what we need to be doing more of
getting out of our safe space and sometimes moving into
someone else's safe space. That's where that's where learning truly begins.
Thank you, Pavia. To have Pavia have a great day. Okay,
thank you so much. The Fifteen Minute Morning Show
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If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.