Gene Hackman Cause of Death, Idaho Murder Texts, Morning Sickness Suicide, Tacky Grave Decorations, and More w/ PopCrime TV Host, Lauren Conlin

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Mother Knows Dad, starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Everyone, welcome The Mother Knows Death. Today we are joined
with our friend Lauren Conlin, hosts of Pop Crime TV
and Primetime Crime, to discuss the news stories that we
are all dying to talk about. There has been a busy,
busy news weekend as far as we're concerned. Gene Hackman's death,
of course, we'll talk about that, and a little bit
about Brian Coberger and the latest with the Idaho murders,

(00:44):
the Menandez Brothers, Extreme Morning Sickness, and tacky grave decorations. Hi, Lauren,
thanks for being here today.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Guys, thanks for having me. I'm so happy to be back,
so thank you again. And you're right, there's so much
going on. I don't even know where to begin. And
this is like, this is our news here, you know.
I mean, my parents they have no clue what's going
on in our world of news. But to me, this
is it. This is all we really need to know, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I talked Cheryl McCollum on the phone yesterday and I
was just like, dude, I feel like I'm drowning this weekend.
There's so much to cover and we're not even covering
half of the stories that we have. Still this is
just but this is like the pending pressing stuff, right,
so we'll get into this. All right, Let's start with
the celebrity news and Gene Hackman.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
All right, So, for those of you who have been listening
the past week or so, we've been reporting on the
deaths of Gene Hackman and his wife Betsy. So just
as a quick reminder, they were found dead in their
Santa Fe home on February twenty six. There was a
million theories happening where they murdered? Was it carbon monoxide?
Now we have an official cause of death, so why
don't we talk about that?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Lauren, were you what were your theories? Because I know
that when they said suspicious, you were all over that shit.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Oh yeah, I mean, well, look, it's like the news
broke and I'm going back to the beginning, and it's
like Gene Hackman and his wife found deceased plus their dog.
No foul play suspected or they said, you know, it's
not suspicious, and I'm like, that's the definition of suspicious.
But because they said that, my brain immediately went to

(02:23):
gas or carbon monoxide, and then one of his daughters
actually spoke to TMZ and said the same thing, well,
I think that it's carbon monoxide. And I was like,
so I was right, I told you, you know, And
then sure enough, later that day they release new Mexico
police released this search warrant, and I mean, I hopped

(02:44):
on my YouTube and I went live immediately kind of
going through this, and I was like, Okay, this is wild.
This is the definition of suspicious. But I think, like
a lot of people, I had initially thought that maybe
it was Gene died first, his wife I possibly found him,
decided she didn't want to live because of the pills

(03:04):
we heard about, and she died, And you know, I
just thought maybe either the dog ate the pills or
the dog starved. And then it's like, we find out more.
We find out the pills are are, you know, blood
pressure medicine or thy wroid medication. We find out the
dog was in the kennel because he was a puppy
or she was a puppy and they were training them.
And then of course we we find out the actual

(03:27):
cause of death. And I was like, Okay, I don't
think anybody could have predicted that, but I would love well,
you're predicting that, right, And I would love to hear
your thoughts on the hant of virus because of course
I had never heard of this. I live in New
York City. We don't have that here. I would love
to hear about how this, you know, comes on and

(03:48):
how quickly it can take you.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, hantavirus is super super rare to begin with, So
let's talk about how rare it is. First, only ten
to fifty people are diagnosed with illness from this virus
in the United States a year, okay, out of a
population of millions, three hundred million people, right, So think

(04:14):
about that for a second. How rare we're talking about that,
and it really is. And there's just all of these
things that have to happen. So, like you were saying,
you live in New York City, we live in New
Jersey and hantavirus just isn't a thing where we live.
But there's certain And when I was in school in
PA school, we learned about all of these different either

(04:35):
bacterial or fungral or viral infections that you could get
just because you live in certain areas of the country
and in the world, and hantavirus is one that is
very specific to where they're living in New Mexico. There,
So if you were saying they lived in New York
and she had this, I would have been like, eh.

(04:56):
Although it is found sometimes in other areas of the country,
but me Mexico is kind of the epicenter of where
cases of this happened, so it's not surprising from that aspect.
But what I thought was a little weird about it
is usually people who are exposed to this are farmers
or people who work in pest control and are crawling

(05:18):
around in crawl spaces with rodent droppings. I don't really
understand how she was exposed to so much of this
that she was able to contract this virus.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
That's a good point. I mean, they're Santa Fe home.
It was very secluded. I mean, if you see that
that aerial view, it's like, I mean, it's gated. It
looks like it's in the middle of nowhere. I know
they had people that tended to tended I guess I

(05:51):
mean to their facilities, but I don't know to what extent.
And it sounds like Betsy was really focused on and
his health and taking care of him and being his
caretaker that maybe possibly they did neglect some of the grounds.
I mean, that's just a thought, but I just I

(06:14):
wondered Nicole, like how, you know, how is it? And
it sounds like this clearly hit her at once where
she was taking her medicine out of a cabinet or wherever,
and she just collapsed. So it's like this must have
been eating away at her or something like that. I
have to think for her just to drop to the ground.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Well, this is a very interesting virus and it's actually
one that you kind of think I never want to
be exposed to that because it's terrible. Once you get it,
you're exposed to it, and then within a week to
all the way up to five weeks you could have it,
and then you don't start showing symptoms and you start
showing symptoms for about another half of a week to

(06:55):
a week, which is flu like symptoms, no coughing at all,
just flew like symptoms, a fatigue and malaise, maybe some nausea, diarrhea.
And at that point I know that the day that
she died, or they think around when she died, she
had went to CBS that day and they had also
found tailand all around the house, so that could possibly
explain why she had that out. But once it starts

(07:18):
affecting the heart and the lungs, it shit goes down
very fast and the lungs start filling up with fluids
so fast that forty percent of people that get to
that stage die. I mean, that's a high amount of
people to die from a virus, so it's it could
go down like really really fast, and that's what happened,
and she ended up collapsing because of that.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, I mean, it seems like she was having a
normal day the day they think that she died. She
was running a bunch of errands. I can't imagine being
super sick and wanting to go grocery shopping, CVS pet store.
You know, she was emailing with the messuse that morning
as well, So she was seemingly having a typical day,
and it just is crazy to think about how quickly

(08:02):
it all went downhill for her.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Right, That's where my brain went, like, how did this
happen so fast? And there was a couple of reports
also about the fact that she didn't call her mother
in two months, and so that got me thinking as well, well,
what was going on. They said it was very out
of character for her because her mother, her own mother
had dementia, and the caretaker for her mom was like,

(08:25):
we didn't hear from Betsy in a few months. And
then Jean's daughter in turn, which you know, I don't
know the relationship, but it did kind of upset me
that no one checked on him, I mean, or called him.
And she said, oh, well, I haven't heard from my
dad in two months, and I want to be like, well,
did you call him or did? I mean, you know,
I don't know the details, but I guess when you

(08:46):
actually sit there and think about it, how truly sad
it is to think about this man wandering around his house,
maybe not even realizing that she was deceased on the
ground and not again, I don't know how. I think
his dementia was very severe. I don't know if he
had any bouts of lucidness right, but I God, my

(09:10):
heart just broke. What a horrible disease.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
So they're if they're saying that the medical examiner was
saying that he had severe advanced dementia, then that means
that they not only got that from the medical records,
so by calling his doctor and getting that information, but
also by what they saw with the brain, so just
a lot of shrinking. There's all these different things that

(09:33):
you could see in the brain, but the biggest striking
feature is that the brain just looks significantly smaller, and
the wrinkles or the dyry or the sulky or the
brain are very shrunken down and they just look dried out.
And if he was at that level, he was at
the level where you would think about putting your parent
into a facility, or you would have a hospice nurse

(09:56):
coming by all day. So she was really his primary
caretaker and he I don't imagine that he had much
memory left or any kind of cognition that he would
be able to take care of himself. The medical examiner
said that his stomach was completely empty when oh my

(10:16):
god at the time autopsy, which means that he hadn't
had anything to eat, which is it is really really
upsetting and disturbing. And a lot of things I want
to mention too, are that the dogs. Essentially, if he
wasn't feeding himself, he possibly wasn't feeding the dogs. How
much food was out for the dogs at the time,

(10:38):
because like right now, my cat could live about a
year a day or two without me feeding her. Right,
she's got a bowl of food out there. So a
lot of times when people die in the house, the
animals scavenge on the people who are dead in the house.
We didn't hear any about that, obviously, Like this is
Gene Hackman, so they're going to be close lip about everything.

(10:58):
But how did those two dogs survive for two weeks
without any food? I mean just think some of them
are saying they.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Went outside, maybe they got a squirrel or I don't know,
something like that. But I mean, if you think about it,
like Jeane quite possibly could have seen that one dog
in the kennel, locked in this kennel, possibly barking, crying,
and he didn't even process that either to let him
out or which is in Sorry I don't know the

(11:26):
gender of the dog, but you know it's I'm just
thinking about this as we're talking about it, Like he
was so not with it that he didn't even let
out his dog that was locked in a kennel, starving
and crying. So that's it's awful. I had no idea
he had no food in his stomach, So did he
die from starvation?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
No? They said that he died. They said that he
didn't have signs of dehydration, so there must have been
points that he was at least drinking water or something,
but he hadn't in some time before he died. But
his closet death was listed as cardiovascular death from athrosterotic
heart disease and from hypertension, so hypertension is blood high

(12:11):
blood pressure. He had lots of documents of you know,
he had the pacemaker. He had history of heart surgery
which I would assume is probably coronary artery bypass graph
or a stent put in, because they said he had
coronary artery disease. He had histories of previous heart attacks,
so that's something that you could see at the heart

(12:33):
at autopsy as well. So he had a reason to die.
And then it was attributed to also severe Alzheimer's just
you know him, and that could be part of the
not eating, not drinking, And it is really really sad
about the whole thing. And another question that I had
about because we didn't hear too much about the scene,

(12:55):
so I wanted to know if the animals were perhaps
scavenging on the two. But as well, we didn't hear
if it was kind of like a hoarding situation that
maybe you would expect to see rodents there. Like, it's
totally possible that she just found you know, you have

(13:15):
dog food in the house, right in the closet and
and you're like cleaning out the droppings and sweeping it
up just creates this aerosol in the air, and she
could have breathed it, and it could be something simple
like that. Their house seemed to be in like the
forest almost, so I mean, it wouldn't be unreasonable for
mice to get into the house. But no one was
expecting this.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
No one, literally, not one person. Not one person's like
I knew it hands a virus, like what No, not
one person no.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
And in some capacity this is going to sound ridiculous
to say, but him having such severe Alzheimer's might have
been more beneficial because my friend had brought up the
point that hopefully he wasn't, you know, coming in and
out of consciousness and having to relive.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Her death over and over and over again.

Speaker 3 (13:59):
So I think that's something that's you know, it's unfortunate
to you know, say that somebody's advanced Alzheimer's ends up
being better for them, but in the situation of trauma
like this, I think it could have ended up being.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
I understand exactly what you mean, and I agree the
whole thing. It's just awful. I had been thinking about that,
like him just wandering around his house, and if I'm
upset about this and he's you know, he's Gene Hackman
to be the actor. I just I can't imagine his
family thinking about that hit the poor guy, like I
I would think that they would have immense regret and

(14:35):
immense you know, just these these feelings of guilt for
not checking on him, you know what I mean, Like,
I just know, I don't know how I'd be able
to sleep as a family member after that.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I do remember saying when he first died, because that
was in you know, I had a lot of theories,
like you said, the first it was carbon monoxide, and
then it was a suicide situation, and then also you're
thinking if it was a natural death. I said, you know,
this is why people should fear their older parents not
living close by and just not having someone even if

(15:09):
you're not there, having someone that could go check in
on them. Because she's sixty five years old, like she's
a senior citizen in herself, even though she was healthy
taking care of a person like that, there should have
been a nurse or something coming in every day or so,
just to check in on things and make sure both
of them were doing okay. So yeah, I did have

(15:30):
one other question too. The remember that we were waiting
on toxicology, and they were telling us it could take
several weeks for it to come back, and so they
sent a test out and that the virus culture was positive,
but they didn't say anything else about the toxicology. So
is that are we still waiting for those results?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I think we're still waiting. I mean, I also was.
I was also a little confused that this came back
so quickly the cause of death, because I thought we'd
be waiting for a while. But yeah, I think that
that in a few weeks we'll probably know anything she
ingested or anything like that. But yeah, you know, and

(16:08):
just going back to her being so healthy and but still,
you know, a senior citizen, I think perhaps if I
was going to offer the family a little bit of
grace and not checking on them. There was a lot
of reports that Betsy still did yoga. She you know,
she cooked and made sure he had fish and and
she took really good care of him. So I feel

(16:29):
like maybe the family kind of was feeling comfort in
that and that's why they didn't check on him so often. Sorry,
I know I'm obsessed with it. I have to stop.
I just I guess I just really can't get over it.
He had a bunch of kids, a bunch of daughters,
and it just it drives me crazy. Oh and the
last thing I want to say about this was, of
all outlets, Newsmax did a great segment on the whole thing,

(16:54):
and they had the dog's veterinarian, and this veterinarian like
wanted to make it known that Gene and Betsy were
very good pet owners and they would never do anything
to harm their dogs, because really she was so upset
about the dog being locked in the kennel, and she
was like, I just want to say that they were
training as puppy, they did nothing to harm this dog,

(17:15):
and they would never do anything. And she was very distraught,
very distraught, and just kind of said, you know, they
were great people and I want everyone to remember them
as such, not as these people that locked their dog
up in a kennel.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, I think in the gross room too.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
When we wrote this up yesterday, we had kind of
criticized in our discussion point the family members not checking
in with them, but some of our members had alluded
to the fact that maybe they had a weird as
strange relationship with the kids. I mean, he had three kids,
he had one granddaughter, so I do think it's interesting
that nobody checked out on him. But again, I guess

(17:50):
you don't know the family dynamic that was going.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
On exactly, so I'm trying. I'm trying not to be judgmental.
It's just like you said, I and not get it
out of my head. It's like you had a ninety
five year old's father. Come on, what you think he's
gonna live forever at this point. No, you got to
check in weekly. I mean, if not daily, I mean
daily could be unreasonable, but weekly that's possible. No.

Speaker 3 (18:15):
I mean we're like huge family oriented people, so we
totally understand them.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
But like, yes, I'm like what, but I don't want
to get the heat from people. They'd be like, well,
everyone's family is different. No, I get that. I just yeah,
I'm bothered.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Sorry, No, you have every right. It's also interesting too,
when we I've been seeing, like one of the daughters
was out in public for the first time yesterday, and
it's like his daughters are the age of his wife.
They're in their or his children. I don't know if
he has a son or not. But the daughter that
they showed on the news is they're in their sixties.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
So no, it's wild.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
So it's like they're kind of older people too, with
their with their lives and stuff. But I mean, we're
gonna be old together, so I know, we always tell
they're an age. We always tell the kids that they're
gonna have to take care of both of us, I guess.
But one other, one other thing that I wanted to
note though, was so when they first did the preliminary autopsy,

(19:11):
which is the one that they released within twenty four hours,
they had said that there was no signs of trauma
on either of them and that their carbon monoxide levels
there was no carbon monoxide exposure. So one thing is
and because I want to bring this up because you said,
I don't know how they came out with it so fast,
it is possible that that the medical examiner saw in

(19:33):
her autopsy, in Betsy's autopsy, that she had some kind
of she was suspicious for some kind of lung infection
or process that caused her lungs to look diseased. Now
she was dead for two weeks, and they said that
she was had mummification on her hands as well as
she was bloated, which means that she was partially decomposed.

(19:55):
And sometimes the tissue looks so bad that the doctor
might looked at it and said, like, something's up here,
but I can't really tell what. And normally you would
take a piece and look under the microscope and look
at it. But when a person's decomposed, the tissue in
the body starts self digesting itself and it looks like
mush too under the microscope. So they might have had

(20:17):
an inkling that something was up but they couldn't really
say for sure, just because of the decomposition. So when
the virology test came back and was positive for hantavirus,
it's kind of like, you don't have You wouldn't just
like stumble across that, you know what I mean. If
it was even like if it was herpes virus or something,
you might even be like, eh, well, people have herpes,

(20:40):
So it might not have been a systemic infection that
killed her. There'd be other like things you could think about,
but with hantavirus, it's just like that shouldn't be there.
And the fact that it's there is like why she's dead.
It doesn't even matter if she has cocaine or whatever,
like it doesn't matter, like she's dead because of the hauntavirus. Yeah,
all right, let's I mean, we've talked enough about this,

(21:04):
so maybe it's.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Just crazy and it's so fascinating.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Now I know it is, and I and it's still
it's still not closed because they said they still have
to check the cell phone that they found two cell phones,
although one of his friends was interviewed and said he
was like anti technology, had never had a phone, so
I know, I know it's so I'm like, I'm like,
dude had a phone and didn't and didn't tell his friend.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Well, no, and last thing and this could be nothing nothing,
but the part about his sunglasses next to him, it's like,
so was he going in and out of the house?
How far was he getting exactly? And like I said,
it was secluded, but clearly the doors had to open
for the dogs as well. And yeah, it's just something
I think about especially if these maintenance men were coming

(21:51):
and going at certain points, like why didn't nobody see
him if he did go outside? I mean, whatever, I'll stop.
I could I guess forever.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
But you know what's interesting, My friend Laura's her mom
has dementia, and she sent me this video on Instagram yesterday.
I could share it with you, and it shows kind
of what the viewpoint is of a person that's going
through dementia, and it kind of helps clear up because
you and I and Maria were all thinking like healthy

(22:22):
brain semi healthy brained individuals and how we would react,
but they're they're just completely not thinking and acting the
way that we do. And it's just unless you've experienced
someone firsthand that's going through that, it's very hard to
see what they were thinking. And it might just be
like a bunch of jumbled up confusion of him having

(22:45):
these thoughts of like something's not right and maybe trying
to leave the house but then being like why am
I out here? And going back home and just a
lot of confusion. You know, it's really sad, but I mean,
he was ninety five, He lived an awesome life. He
was he was one of those actors that everybody pretty
much would say they love nobody hates the dude, and

(23:05):
that's like really hard to do right now.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
So I agree he made these like these, I guess
evil characters. He always played the you know, the what's
the word I'm looking for, brain feart, not the.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
A villain, like a villain kind of like charming villain.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yes, he just he had this way that like, you know,
he didn't make you necessarily hate him in these characters,
that's all. And I yeah, he's amazing. I mean I
I think of him the way he was and the
way he looked, maybe in his sixties, right, it's weird
for me to see him in his nineties and and

(23:45):
he just he looks so different. It's kind of like
Clint Eastwood. I I just picture him in his sixties forever.
That's why I want to picture him now. He's just
you know, he's gotten older. He's very frail. And I
love Clint Eastwood and I will be devastated for for,
you know, the time when when he passes, which I
don't want to put that out there or anything, but
he's also in his nineties and he wrote this beautiful

(24:06):
tribute to ge and he really was like just so
close with him, and oh, it's so sad. These are
we're losing the great ones. We're losing the great ones.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, don't worry.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
She already put it out there that Dolly Parton's gonna
die because her husband just died.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
No, Dollie will live forever.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Exactually, I'm not saying that to be mean. I love
Dolly and stuff. I'm just saying that oftentimes, when a
husband and wife have a very strong, loving relationship and
they've been together forever, they died within three months of
one another. It's just like there's lots of documented cases
of it. So I'm not saying it to wish harm
on her. I'm just saying it because statistically that's possible.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
I totally understand. And I've heard that before as well.
I've heard that.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Okay, let's get into true crime, right.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
So, early last year we reported on these really unusual
depths of these three Kansas City chiefs. Fans were found
frozen in their friend's backyard. Remember the time we were
reporting that, So nobody hears from them for two days.
They're just they go to their friend's house to watch
this football game. Nobody hears from them. For two days.
All their family members are contacting the guy that lives

(25:15):
at this house. He's not answering the phone. So finally
one of the men's fiances goes to the house and
finds them in the backyard. So this guy that lives
at the house is just in there. He says he
was sleeping for two days on the couch.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, I cannot listen. I can't fully make sense of that.
I have kind of been looking into this. And look,
when you get to a certain age and you go
on a bender, I know that you can be laid
up for a day. I mean two days. That's intense.

(25:49):
That's I think that's a kind of rare. But I'm not.
I'm actually I'm not super shocked, if I mean, I
don't know about you guys, but like, I believe, I
actually believe that he could have been laid up for
two days.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
I believe that he could have done it.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
I can't believe that somebody, I guess, you know, he
ended up going to rehab eventually, So I guess I
couldn't believe that somebody would have a problem that bad
that they'd be just out of commission like that for
two days. That's where I have a hard time with it.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
I can believe it. I actually, I really I can.
I'm I'm gonna throw it out there because also I
think that part of it is, you know, you wake
up the next day and it's gonna make me sound
like I do this or something because I'm like, so,
I'm so understanding. But no. But like he probably woke
up the next day, he probably got drunk again to
make the pain what do you call the hair of

(26:39):
the dog, make the pain go away or whatever the
hell he was doing, smoking some weed, probably passed out
for what a good eight hours let's say. Then he
probably won't I mean, you know what I mean, Like,
it's possible to stay in your house for two days
after this vender if you're kind of nursing your your
hangover with drugs, and then finally when you come out

(27:00):
of it, it's you know, it's forty eight hours later
and you're like, holy crap. So I do kind of
believe that, especially if you want to rehab.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, so after at the time we were reporting this
last year, it was kind of unusual, but they said,
like in Geneagman's case, they weren't investigating it as a homicide.
But now it was kind of surprised that the friend
and this drug dealer that they just randomly found in
the investigation have been arrested in connection to their debts.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
I don't really think it's weird either, to be honest
with you. Like this week, my daughter had a medical
treatment on Friday, and like she wasn't feeling well, so
we just kind of stayed in the house all weekend.
Like I didn't leave my house for two days. Like
I just was in my house doing some projects, cleaning up.
I like, if you wouldn't look at your phone for
forty eight hours on my phone whatever, But like if

(27:48):
there were three people dead in my backyard, I wouldn't
have known it. And that's how believable.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, I wouldn't, exactly you, And.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
I wasn't high or drunk or anything. I was just
like like I'd stay in my little world sometimes and
don't so like, listen, people, that guy probably was sitting
on his couch watch it, playing video games, watching TV,
smoking weed, and just like now.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Looking at the phone for two days is totally unbelievable
to me for a thirty nine year old man.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay, well, maybe he looked at his phone, but he
just wanted to ignore. I've done that where I'm like,
I can't take my text messages today. I will check
other stuff. I'll check Twitter, but I don't feel like
checking my text. I wouldn't say for two days have
I ever done anything like that, but I would. I
would give myself a good eight to ten hours, and
I'm like, no text messages, so if you're out of

(28:37):
your mind. But look, I personally, I don't know if
I believe that drug dealers should be arrested per se when.
And I don't want this to come off as insensitive,
you know, I don't think these guys they obviously didn't
plan on smoking weed that was laced with anything, and

(28:58):
I don't know, or maybe they did, I don't know.
And I don't know if these guys actually knew what
their weed was laced with. But I think that if
you are an adult, you are consenting adults, and you
are buying weed off the street from whoever, you have
to know on the back of your mind, something could happen.

(29:20):
And that's that's the choice. That's the choice. I mean, listen,
our drugs legal, Yes, is weed legal? And in a
lot of states now yes, So I'm kind of just was.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
It even weed though they willingly took cocaine that was fine, okay,
And my opinion, I'm like, if you if you're taking cocaine,
you're already because you could die from cocaine too.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Of course, like you did smoke weed. They did smoke weed,
and they did buy this weed as well, and it
was laced.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Yeah, So this is the thing, Like I understand what
you're saying. And my first thought when I heard this
too was it's like the government deems this drug's not safe.
This drug's safe, and then if somebody sells your somebody
something with fentanyl in it and they get hurt or die,
then that person gets charged. But like what happens about

(30:12):
all the people in the country that are hurt by
prescription medications that the companies aren't liable for that ever?
Right ever, you never get in trouble and we could
do well, but seriously doing something bad or not. It's
just like they set examples out of all of these people,
but then people that are kind of doing the same

(30:33):
thing on a different level are like never held accountable.
So that's one thing, But I I agree, like this
is the the problem is is. I guess you would
say they walked into it thinking that they were doing
because it happened. It happened with Prince for example, he
thought he was taking a prescription pill of a percoset
and it was one that was fake, that was laced

(30:56):
with fentanyl. Right. He thought he was taking a drug
that he knows doesn't hurt him or didn't didn't make
him die. Right, And then you take it and you
could kind of think of it because you think about
like kids, because our kids will be teenagers soon, right,
and they're going to a party and they want to
try coke with their friends or you know, you could

(31:17):
tell your kids as much as you want, but they're
going to do what they're going to do. And then
they think they're smoking weed or they think they're doing
a line and coke, and then all of a sudden
they're dead because some asshole cut it with ventanol. Well,
the rules in this country are is that, like we
should try to if we set examples of these people,
maybe it'll stop happening. Although that's okay, well happening.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, I feel with miners it's different. I don't know
if you feel the same way. I feel like you
should be charged. If you give drugs to a minor,
you sell drugs to a minor, regardless of with what
it's cut with, you should definitely be charged. I'm just saying,
as as a consenting adult, you should know the risks
associated with doing cocaine, buying cocaine from whoever. And by

(31:59):
the way, these guys weren't like avid drug users, and
I'm not you know, I guess what I'm trying to
say is like they were dabbling. They were just you know,
middle aged men wanting to dabble a little bit have
a good time. They had jobs, they had, you know,
families and lives, and so it is truly tragic and sad.
I'm just not sure charging people in this instance would

(32:23):
would help anything. But sorry, Maria, I feel like I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
No, You're totally good. I agree with you.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Like when children are involved, one hundred percent, people should
be held responsible. I even understand why the drug dealer
was arrested in this case. I kind of don't understand
why the friend was arrested. Was it because he connected
them to each other? Because message you could.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Just talking about I guess the friend was the one
that got the drugs for the night.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Correct, Okay, so anybody involved in somebody overdosing is then
liable for that.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean, yeah, that they're trying to like they're trying
to set examples of people. So like when you decide
that you want to start selling drugs, you're gonna be like,
shit if somebody even if that I give it to
that person and that person gives it to a person,
like they're going to trace it back to me. They
found the guy's DNA on the bags, which was awesome
how they caught them one gout, you know. But but

(33:15):
like you and these people getting the drugs, like the
guy that got arrested didn't make it like he probably
bought it off with somebody. It came from Mexico or whatever,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Yeah, and and you know, like it could just be
case by case. Like I some people were upset when
when you know, people were charged in the death of
Matthew Perry, But I feel like that's much different because
they were knowingly taking advantage of him and I and yes,
he is a consenting adult, but when you've got these
text messages and stuff of them trying to kind of

(33:47):
pull the wool over his eyes and make him spend
as much money as possible on ketymine and not you know,
acting as as a doctor and not you know, administering
this as you should. I think, yes, in that case,
somebody should be charged. Well maybe there were any charges there,
but yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:04):
But in that case too, you have medical professionals involved,
and that could be a harm to society. So that's
like a that's a greater problem.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Right, one hundred percent. I just mean, like when people
were mad, they're like, oh, he's an adult, he should
have known, and I'm like, these are doctors. Yeah, yeah,
example are like, but no, the assistant. I kind of felt, oh,
you know, I'm not whatever. I don't want to go
down that rabbit hole. But like the assistant could spend
you know, a hefty chunk of time in jail for

(34:31):
administering that lethal dose. But this guy was kind of
just doing what he was told. And sure, you always
have a choice in life, right, Like he could have
gotten fired if he didn't whatever. But it's like to
put that guy in jail when he really was kind
of just yeah, following orders. It's it's tough, but yeah,
it's it's a tough call overall.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Did they ever say why, because I think that it's
very unusual that three of them were outside, Like why
were they outside where they smoked?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I think they were just hanging out or were they.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
They were leaving because I mean, it was freezing outside,
so I don't it's not like they were sitting around
the picnic bench like.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
The snow and they were remember they were in like
the lawn chairs or whatever. I think it was like
they were sitting for uh, I don't remember. I mean, yeah,
I thought they were just having beers because like I
just and again I'm not a football fan, but I
know just from my husband that they don't care how
cold it is. I don't know if you experience that,

(35:32):
like they don't actually care. They're still partying, They're still
hanging out. They're going to sit around in some chairs
for a while, drinks some beers and god knows what.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
But like my husband thinks, forty degrees is a summer day.
So like I understand that they might have, you know,
done the drugs, been outside hanging out, and then I
do think it's odd. I totally understand the possibility of it,
but I do think it's odd. They all odd at
the same exact time. But then again, they're all taking this.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
If you have if you have a high enough dosea
that that's going to kill any single person that takes it.
It is interesting. So sometimes if you do cocaine, it
could raise your body temperature, which would make you hot.
So that would make sense there that they would just
go outside, I guess. But what so the guy that
lived at the house that didn't take it, which is interesting.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
No, and you know, as we discuss this, it is
there's a lot of weird stuff. You're right, he didn't
take it at the exact same time. They all seem
to od it's it's strange, but I'm beginning to realize
that in general, things are strange. I mean, like again,
Gene Hackman, like, who would have thought this stuff is possible?

(36:39):
So it's like, I guess, as as interesting as it
is to think of these weird theories and things that
could have happened and whatever, like, I think that, Yeah,
at this point, it's kind of like it's weird. It
is what it is. But I think everything is as
it seems or as it is now right.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, I don't think anything's like truly an affair with this.
I think we can look at it, same with Gene
Hackman and be like, Okay, when you add all the
facts up together, they seem really odd. And with other
cases we know that things when they seem amiss, they
typically are. But I think in these cases it is straightforward.
I'm thinking, you know, if I'm the worst example of
this because I'm like a grandma, but if if I

(37:20):
had a friend come over my house and they were like,
where can I get drugs? And then I was just like, oh,
I know a guy that sells them, and then I
make the connection, so I'm liable too, even if I
don't do them.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
That's a point. I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
I mean I think I think like the lesson here
is just like, don't do that shit and this won't
ever be a problem. But it's not possible. People are
still gonna do It's possible like that. I tell the
kids that all the time when like they have to
talk about prison and stuff, I'm just like, you don't
you could just like not get arrested, like if you
just do what you're supposed to do, like it won't happen, right,

(37:58):
Like this will never I know, oh that this will
never happen. To me, because I'm never going to be like, hey,
I'll call somebody to get you drugs over here, like
right right.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
So like just don't do that, do less of that,
and you'll be good. You won't have to worry you
no one.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Else's you know what else I think is weird about
these stories like that, I and like I try to
put myself in these situations. But if my husband was
at a I knew he was at a football party
and I didn't hear from him, let's not say husband,
because let's say I was dating and we didn't live
together at the time, and I didn't hear from him

(38:31):
for for a few hours of normal time, I would
have been starting to look for him, like what's up
with all these people? If you could say it with
like Casey Anthony's mom too calling thirty whole days after
the kid, Like what's up with these huge time lapses
when people are like, hey, something might be right, let
me get wrong, let me go check on this. It's

(38:52):
it's just like very bizarre to me.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
I'm gonna say, just in defense of the one fiance
that ended up discovering them, maybe they weren't living together
and maybe he didn't say where he was going, you know, maybe,
like I don't know, I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
A long time now for a fiance. I feel like.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Two days is a long time.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
But if you know my husband's texting history, for example,
like he is, he is one hundred years old with it.
When we were dating, he was like, I I will
be there, I will date you. I love you, but
I'm bad at communication. And I'm just putting that on
the table now. But I still heard from him once
a day. But there would be days where we'd wake
up and he'd go out with his friends and I

(39:31):
wouldn't know where they were all day, and then he
would tell me about his day at the end of
the day.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Yeah, but that's one day.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Yeah, I know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
Maybe she couldn't get a hold of him and two
days of the other friends.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Yeah, well, I mean and by the way, Casey Anthony's mom,
don't get me started on that she waited, she knew
what was going on. She's exactly so.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
But yeah, I mean literally, because people argue with me
about that, that say that she that that, I'm just like,
I'm sorry, but like that girl, it's it's the same
that we were saying about Brian Laundry and we're like,
he was such a scumbag because his parents were scumbags.
It's the same thing, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
That's exactly right. Like I said, we could do a
whole episode on that. But don't tell me they loved Kaylee,
they loved their grand baby so much. You're telling me
that that. No, they she knew what was going on,
Cindy Anthony. They George and Casey told her initially or eventually,
and that's why she didn't. I mean, I don't. I've
said this, like I can't say exactly what Cindy Anthony's

(40:33):
role and it was, but one hundred percent she knew
what happened and she was protecting them. So anyway, but
like if my husband goes away for work, we won't
talk for two days, Well he might check in about
the kids maybe, but I wouldn't be alarmed if I
didn't hear from him for maybe a day then maybe
by the next said, by six o'clock, I might be like, Yo,

(40:54):
when are you coming home again? Like it might be
like that, but again, we've been married for fourteen years.
So if it's a fiance, actually yeah, I might be like, yo,
who you banging? You know, like what's up?

Speaker 3 (41:06):
But like, you know, yeah, I could just I guess
I'm getting it is like I don't find it necessarily acceptable,
but I could see how it could get there because
you know, you know, he's going to a party and
you don't want to be that naggy girlfriend. And then
the next day goes on and you're just like, Okay,
I'm starting to get pissed. And then maybe she didn't

(41:26):
know his friends and couldn't figure out where he was,
and then by the time she did, it was the
time she found him. This episode is brought to you
by the Gross Room guys. Of course, this week we
had the huge revelation of how Gene Hackman and his

(41:48):
wife died, so I know we talked about it a
little bit today on today's program, but the death dissection
on the in the Grocery Room goes into way more detail.
It's about a ten to fifteen minute just going into
detail of everything that was found at autopsy and what
that might look like at autopsy. We also have a
really interesting case of a woman who went to the

(42:10):
doctor with a discolored tongue and something horrific happened as
a result of that and another case of electron microscopy.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Being used to solve a crime. So make sure you
check out the gross Room this week. Yeah, head over
to the grosser Room dot com for more info into
sign up with Casey Anthony.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Though we lived in a very similar situation you had
me young, we lived with your parents, there's no way
in which they would have gone that long without seeing me.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
I'm sorry, Nope.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
Especially like today, I know, I'm like, especially if she
was like this conniving person that like was a chronic
liar of course, like if you because they're saying that
about her right that she's just like this lying but whatever,
Like then you would have even called sooner because you
would have been like, she's not telling the truth on

(43:03):
day one, like come.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
On, I just look at those pictures of her partying
while hurt. I'm just like, girl, by just go just
just leave, crawl back in your hole.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
I mean, well I heard that she got like she
got boldied off, right, like she's not she's not yesterday. Look,
I thought that was just like a false and she
has followers.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
I'm like, are you guys? I just it's like it's
not even funny. It's like not even funny. How are
we going to give this girl platform?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Well, Nancy was saying the other day when she was
talking about it, She's just like it's like a car accident,
like you can't you can't look away, and that's that's
all it is. I don't think that. You know, we
hear with the next case we're going to talk about
with Brian coberg Er, you hear about him having like
legit fans like I've really never heard of anybody and listen, like,
I'm I don't stick up for Casey Anthony at all.

(43:56):
I just think that it's not as as it's presented,
like I think that they're you know, she was only
nineteen and had a life with those people all that time,
and she's I almost feel like she's a victim of
her childhood as well, Like that whole thing is just interconnected.
So I definitely don't think that she's innocent and not

(44:17):
a fan of her, But I also don't think that
like the parents are innocent and she's just like this
awful person.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
It's just, you know, I never really true. I think
she's an awful person. I think her parents are awful.
I think they're all, yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
Exactly, yeah, so do I Both things could be true.
She could be a terrible person, and it could have
come from being raised by those people. I just I
don't think they're fully innocent in the case. Every time
I see them do public speaking, I'm disgusted by it.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
But she don't have fans that I feel like anyway
that that she doesn't have a fan club. That's like
she's innocent. Blah blah blah. Oh, most people like hate her.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
I think everybody. Everybody hates everybody. No, everyone does. But
it is interesting because I don't know if you guys
were you did you pay attention to Wade Wilson, the
guy you must be Yeah, he's got the tattoos all over.
That's like the hot guy he's yeah. He basically I
mean he murdered two women, almost three in this horrific way.

(45:19):
The one he described the one girl in a jailhouse
phone call that he ran over as spaghetti okay, and
he has women throwing themselves and it's like, what I mean,
you guys do realize he murdered to like I don't
understand it. I'm I'm dumbfounded. And he was sentenced to death.

(45:40):
So it's and yeah, that freaks me out, but I
guess I'm I'm I shouldn't say I'm used to it.
But between him and Mangioni, it's just like my con
like stop stop, so I'm glorifying.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
See I look at the like I look at that guy.
What's the same the other guy, well, Wade Wilson. Yeah,
Like I look at him and I'm like, especially before
he got all those weird tattoos on his face, I
was like he was hot. He was a handsome guy.
Luigi is a hot, handsome guy. But I don't I
personally don't feel like I would ever be on their side.

(46:12):
I think they're terrible people. I'm just like looking at
their physical structures and saying.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
I was just saying a couple of weeks ago, how
we have this weird like psychology that attractive people are
somehow they have to be innocent.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
The just system, the just system messed up. There's no
way they could.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Have killed somebody. But then Brian Koberger, who's like a
disturbing looking person, is one hundred percent guilty because that's
what he looks like and he has creepy yeah, because
he does have creepy eyes.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
So let's start talking. Let's start talking about him.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Okay, great segue, great sague.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
I think he is one hundred percent guilty in my opinion,
especially after I read Howard Blum's book. I mean that
would really open my eyes about a lot of details
of this case, especially with the gag order. But now
we have some new evidence, So let's start off talking
about the text between the roommates.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Yeah, and I'm just to add to and that I
also read Howard Blum's book and I interviewed him. I've
got a great interview with him on my podcast, The Outlier,
and I will say, you know, he's got tunnel vision.
He definitely covered it from one angle in my opinion.
And and look, my opinion is that he is guilty,
like you said, But as this new evidence comes out

(47:19):
with the text messages and the DNA which we'll get to,
and there's always been there's always been doubt, right, I
think that it's not going to be an easy case
to prove with all of this stuff. But yeah, the
text message is so weird. I mean I'm sorry, Like,
what do you guys think? It's so odd? So odd?
And the nine to one one call, and I've always

(47:40):
thought that. I've always thought that, and now there's there.
They were possibly texting about like a ski mask being
involved that he was. I mean, it's just like things
that maybe we thought and things that we kind of
found out, you know, about the burglary down the street
or whatever. He was ten miles away, that person was
wearing a ski mask. This is all going to be,
you know, sit in front of a jury to create

(48:02):
this doubt in their minds, and I think it's it's
it's gonna be tough.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Could you imagine if that guy gets off, Like I
can't even imagine it, that one, that one will be
the most disturbing to me of of all time.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
I think he will Like I'm not even trying to
be dramatic.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah, I'm saying that. Yeah, there's I've been saying this
is from day one, that it's some kind of weird
like grad school project that he's trying to prove that
maybe I don't even know, like he wants to be
the next Which one was it teg Ted Kazinski or
one of them that was a very educated person, PhD

(48:41):
person or something.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Like that was like Ted Kaczinski. So I don't know.
If maybe he does, I'm not sure, but it's just.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Like a weird I feel like he's trying to make
the ultimate PhD dissertation on some kind of crime and
and and I just do I think that it's that twisted.
There's something to it. There's something very unusual about it,
and the fact that he's on this level he's just
trying to like he's helping his defense lawyer, which is

(49:11):
very unusual in any case for a person to really
know it from that perspective, to be able to throw
out evidence and this and that. And I think that
he's using this to his advantage for whatever his PhD
program is, which I'm assuming he got kicked out of,
but people will want to listen to him and read
his book if he eventually has one. So I just

(49:33):
think that there's more to it. The text message is
to me, like, this is like trying to read my
children's text messages. I'm like, what the fuck are you
even saying? Right now? The way that they talk is
so difficult for me.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Like I'm really confused and right now, yeah, and so
just let's talk about those text messages. I mean, I
get it, you've been drinking, you're lazy, maybe you're scared.
But if you're really confused and you think some in
the house and your other roommates aren't answering, I mean,
I don't know, do you hide in your bed or
do you run to that? It's just it's really bizarre

(50:09):
to me. And I again, there's all these possibilities, and
you could lay out every single situation as we've done
on this episode, right with like, well this could happen. Well,
I believe this, I believe that, and it's just funny
that and it's not funny, but it's it's weird that
we seem to keep coming back to that, right, Well,

(50:31):
what would you do in this situation? Well, I don't
know if I would do that. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
One thing I've been saying for years is there should
be a text message nine to one to one system somehow,
because if you ever think about that, being in your
house alone and thinking that someone's in your house, the
last thing that you want to do is make a
phone call and have to talk to somebody because it
makes so much noise where it's just easier if you

(50:57):
could send a text. I mean, that could go terribly
wrong too, but if you could send a text to
your local nine one one and say, like, I'm in trouble,
this is my address, because you could quietly do that, Yeah,
and that could just be I mean, you could probably
interview lots of victims and situations like this that said
they were scared to call because they didn't want to

(51:19):
make any noise or something. You know, I don't know
what I would do, but I think that whatever they did,
just if you add on top of it that they
were pissed ass drunk, it's like they might you know,
you might be like, is this really fucking happening?

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Like is this what I'm seeing? Like not even believing
your own brain right there?

Speaker 3 (51:38):
You know, Yeah, Yeah, I think it's a lot of that.
They're young, they're naive, they were in an area that
was considered generally safe. I think in some of these cases,
your mind just seriously can't go there that something really
wrong is happening. It's the middle of the night, like
you're saying, they don't know if he's still in the
house necessarily, so they might be scared.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
My brain I always can I tell you guys that
my brain always goes there and like I'll be laying
in bed, I'll have taken like a sleeping pill, okay,
and I'll hear some shit in my house and I
have like a I have literally I have a weapon
like in this draw. I mean I have a lot
of weapons, but I have this like lead My husband
was sleeping, I was like lead pipe. It's like I
got it on Amazon, but it's actually amazing. It's very heavy.

(52:20):
I hear something and I'm like, look, I'm tired. I
really don't want to get up right now. But I
hear some shit. I've got kids, So I get my
led pipe and I go out looking and it's one
of my kids sleepwalking. But like that feeling is like
I don't want to get up. I don't want to
do this. But of course, and maybe that's just my
twisted brain. Of course I go to something being wrong

(52:40):
in the house, you know, and of course I go
into this mode where I want to protect my household.
But yeh yeah, I just I can't help that. I'm
gonna I'm not gonna hide in my room. But that's
just me. But I also want to talk about you know,
I know you guys do too, But the DNA under
I think it wasn't Madison Mogan fingernails or with it. Yeah,

(53:02):
so the three different types of DNA, we don't know
whose it was, but we also don't know that it
doesn't belong to Brian Coberger. So what I mean, what
is a jury going to think of that?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
So I think that they're trying to throw that evidence away.
And the reason that I think that is because at
this time they compared it to Brian's and they can't
see if it's his. They're not ruling it in or out.
They just don't know. But I think at some point
in the future there's going to be more specific testing

(53:34):
that could say that it is for sure him or not.
So if that gets thrown out, I mean that could
even be on a company by company basis, and they
they're very limited to what they could do as of
right now. But I think that at some point it's
just like having DNA evidence from before DNA evidence was
even a thing, and now it's coming out and you

(53:54):
could convict people. It's one of those things that could
just stay in the file and be brought up at
a later time. I think that's why they're trying to
get rid of it.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
But if they were so confident he wasn't at the scene,
wouldn't they want them to run it so that they
were like, Okay, it's definitely not him.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Is there a possibility because I don't think that we
talk about this enough that there are other people involved
with this, just because remember when he now this could
be a double thing, like he got arrested in the
very first thing he said was did anyone else who
else has been arrested for this crime? He could have
done that to either throw them off and just for
that or like it's possible, right right?

Speaker 1 (54:31):
I mean, and going back to that, the shorter guy
with bushy eyebrows and his ski mask who robbed a
house ten miles away, who is that? Could they be friends?
Especially since he asked that, I don't know. I feel
so bad for the families and just you know, Kaylee
Gounkova's father. They seem to be just not on the

(54:54):
same wavelength as the prosecution, and you know, like they're
holding their own press conferences and he's just he's getting harassed.
It's just it's it's mind blowing how this has just escalated,
I guess, and these families they just want to move on.
They just want closure, and like you said, Maria, I
I don't know that they're going to get it, and

(55:15):
it's it's it's hard to even say that. It's so
painful because I can't imagine being them.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
No, I really can't either. I was saying this when
we were on Zone seven a couple of weeks ago too.
With Karen Reid, it's like people want her to be
prosecuted so badly, but it still doesn't really.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Explain what happened.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
So, like the family, I needs to have closure in
some capacity. You could put her in jail or set
her free. It doesn't it doesn't really explain everything that's
gone on.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
You are so right, and and not to just totally digress,
but I got early access to and I follow that case,
you know, very very closely. I actually attended a day
of the first trial and reported for Nancy Grace and
it was so wild. But I got early access to
the idea documentary that's going to be released on March seventeenth.

(56:05):
I gotta say this is not good for Karen Reid.
I've always been in the area of I'm not going
to say it's a conspiracy, but nobody has proven to
me that she hit him beyond a reasonable doubt. Some
of the stuff she says, it's not going to be
good for her, especially since the prosecution has actually requested

(56:26):
transcripts from these media things that she's done. And she
even her fucking idiots said do that stuff like sheds
in this document, And well, what I think is because
it followed her through the first trial. It's like she's
got a camera crew, you know, after certain days of
the trial and deliberations and they're in the war room.
I think she truly thought, and same with her team,

(56:47):
that she was going to be found innocent and so
she could say all these things and it was going
to be done. But I mean, she talks about like
how she had six drinks and she goes in like
that night, like no one knew how many drinks she had.
It was always, oh, did she have nine? That's somebody
she paid for. She's like, no, I had six, and
then she kind of describes like it was a vodka
soda with a shot on the side. And then I

(57:09):
pour I was like, oh my gosh, girl, stop stop
stop stop stop. So anyway, but you're right, it's not
gonna matter whether or not they put her in jail
or they don't because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't
add up to me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I also want to say too, just my opinion that
I don't feel like Brian Coberger would work with another
person to execute these attacks because I think it could
possibly botch his plan. That you know, this this theory
that we have that he's doing this as some type
of thesis or experiment to point out flaws in the
system or whatever he's doing. But I think adding other

(57:41):
people in the mix is too risky if that's really
what he's trying to do in his angle.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
In this case, good point. I think it's a DNA
could you're like for a person to do something so
gruesome and heinous without having any history of any of
that history. But do you know he didn't have any
history of it. I there's really anything cases though, of
like people telling animals like you just don't really know.

(58:06):
I just like they try to dig up whatever they
can and it's like they're not. It's the whole thing
is just freaking weird, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
I agree, But it's possible. I like him for this.
He is the guy, I'm sorry to say, like he
I don't know how else to say he did it.
He did it in my opinion, his.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
His eyes alone convict him.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
Yes, I will eat my words. I am so fine
to say when I'm wrong, and I'm also fine to
change my mind once I'm watching a trial. I mean,
I'm like, I don't care. I don't have skin in
the game. I think he's guilty. I said, I like
him for it, and if someone's gonna prove to me
that he didn't do it, I'll be like, Okay, cool,
I you know, find the guy that did exactly.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
So this will get us into our next story too,
is that he is eligible for firing squad as execution
if he gets the death penalty. And we've actually just
had a case of it.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
So wow, Yeah, this guy in South Carolina convicted double murder.
He was just executed by firing squad. It's the first
time South Carolina's used it and I believe fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Yeah. So they had him on a chair, did you
see this, blindfolded with a big X on him basically,
and they had three volunteers, I mean not volunteers. They
were obviously correctional officers and they worked at the prison,
but three volunteers to shoot him. You know, right here.

(59:33):
And if that's not the most terrifying thing you've ever heard,
I don't know what is. I mean, I get it,
it's it's I guess it's more humane than lethal injection.
I've heard horrible things about this, but just thinking about
this guy getting blindfolded in a chair with like an
X marks the spot is wild.

Speaker 3 (59:51):
I just think of the other execution methods, you know,
like hanging, electric chair, lethal injection, and I'm just like,
you know, whatever gets the job done, just do it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Because I've been saying forever that I would prefer to
get shot if I had to pick any of them,
because it's always done and you're dead and right away.
Like they did a study at Emory University on autopsy
reports from inmates who are executed by lethal injection, and
they found out that most cases of them showed their
lungs were really heavy filled with fluid or pulmonary edemon

(01:00:23):
and they died a very slow, painful death similar to drowning.
Like no thanks, no thanks, it's and it always doesn't
work one hundred percent of the time, Like it's just
it seems easier. It's the same thing when people say
that they would if they had to choose a method
of suicide, they would ode on drugs. And it's like, no,
you wouldn't. That would be absolutely terrible. If you really

(01:00:44):
want to do something, just get it done easily with
a gun. That's that's like, yeah, I think that. I mean,
the whole thing sounds terrifying. And now these volunteers have
killed the person now in my opinion, which is which
is crazy. But like, in my opinion, there's certain people
that I would just have, especially like people that her

(01:01:06):
children or something. If you said to me, like, well,
you should shoot this person, I'd be like absolutely, and
I feel nothing about it, Like I just that's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
To say that, but I feel like taking a life
would really you would, even if they were horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Okay, let me take it, and I don't have feelings
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
I'll get it to one of your family members or
God forbid, your like your child. Yes, I think I
would agree with that, and I would be like, okay,
I'm fine. But if I don't know, I mean, it's
it's tough to put myself in that situation, but I
just think, you know, I watched this documentary. It was
about the death penalty in Texas, and it was a

(01:01:45):
correctional officer who worked on death row, and finally he
just he had to give it up. He was always
for the death penalty, but he just saw so much
trauma and he dealt with so much, and he also
saw an and this is you know, it's interesting, but
he just saw how some not all of these people
would commit these heinous murders in their teens, be sentenced

(01:02:08):
to death, and then they would change a lot, and
they would actually do more good in prison with the
other inmates than they would being dead. And he basically
said it was Carla fey Tucker, this born again Christian.
She was convicted of this horrible double murder with these
ice picks and her boyfriend, and you know if they
were trying to get her clemency and George Bush was

(01:02:30):
like nope, and then you know, it was just bad.
And He's like that was it for me. I was
just so after years and years and decades of watching
this go down, he said he couldn't do it anymore.
So I thought that was really interesting to look at
it from that perspective. But I'm all about the death penalty.
I'm not mad.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Let's say Brian Cooberger is convicted and he does get
the death set, and so is it unethical to wish
a slow, painful death upon somebody like that? Like why
should they get a quick, easy out when they've taken
the lives of innocent people and we're strategically planning it out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
And it wasn't fast. Those deaths of those four beautiful
college students, those were not and they suffered. They suffered.
So no, I don't I think that we can have
our opinions, but I don't think that'll it'll matter. I
think that you know, he's got the right to die
quickly and painlessly, I guess, But you're right, I would

(01:03:24):
not be out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
It's a weird thing. I did like a whole external
exam on Mother Nos Death podcast with Matt Mangino.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
You know him, yeah, yes, on Lare.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Yeah. He's he's like he wrote a book about executions
and stuff, so he's kind of an expert with executions.
And it is interesting to hear because he's kind of
not into it and he has reasoning that you could
that you could maybe see, like just how people like
interviewing family members afterwards and just like they're not really
any more satisfied that the person's death, like it doesn't

(01:03:56):
do as much for you as you would think it
would certain things like that thing. Yeah, so I go
back and forth with it because when he was saying
certain things to me, I'm kind of like, Okay, I
could see your point there, and like you were saying,
like sometimes they could rehabilitate themselves and and then other
times you're like, that person shouldn't even be on the planet.

(01:04:17):
But I don't. I don't know that the family really
feels any differently if they're I think it's more important
in certain cases where you're talking about like manson murders
and stuff where people are getting released from prison. That's
what would scare the shit out of me, is that
there was ever a possibility of them getting out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Exactly agreed.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Did you see what his last meal was? It seemed
pretty delicious, KFC. Yeah, it was beans, bash, potatoes, biscuits, cheesecake,
sweet tea. I always think of this now because there
was a guy on TikTok that was making famous prisoners
last meals and then ranking them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Wait, oh my gosh, that's so funny. Well wait, this
is so random, but one of one of my husbands
and and are really good friends. He actually works at Rikers.
And there was this article in the Post the other day.
One of the very liberal Upper West Side councilwomen was like,
we need to get uh, you know, farmed the table
meals for these prisoners and like, I'm just like a

(01:05:14):
Riker's Island and I'm like, shut the fuck, you know whatever.
And so they have this menu that was listed in
the post, and my husband's like, man, this this food
actually looks good. It's like it's like jerk plapia and stuff.
And I'm like, dude, shut up, like, you know, kind
of like a dig at my cooking. So we text
my friends like we're like, you know, is the chicken,
Like is this food that good? And my friend actually said, dude,

(01:05:37):
as a CEO, he's like the baked chicken at Riker's Slaps.
I was like, wait, I'm sorry, what is happening right now?
He's like, no, we all line up for the baked chicken.
I was like, oh my god, weird, Like what is
going on? Yeah, so apparently Riker's baked chicken it's really good.
But anyway, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
All right, let's talk about the Menendez brothers.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Well, you know this, I was gonna say, the killing,
speaking of you know, doing something when you're a teen,
This fifteen year old boy killed his mother, claiming that
he watched the Menendez Brothers documentary on Netflix and that's
what influenced him to do it. My ass, shut up.
Don't blame them, really, And then he did the whole
Carly Greg thing where he took a picture of his

(01:06:19):
deceased mother and sent it to his friends on Snapchat.
Carly Greg, the teen who killed her mother last year,
maybe two years ago, I can't remember, did the same thing,
texted her friends and said, hey, do you want to
see this? I mean, it's it's so disturbing, it's so disturbing,
Like ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
In that Netflix documentary. This is what I'm curious about.
Did they talk about the possibility of them getting out
because of all of the stuff surrounding.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
I can't remember exactly. What they did talk about was
the havieus the writ that was, you know, brought forth
and filed in twenty twenty three by their attorneys with
new evidence, kind of hinting that they should get out,
But I mean it didn't really say that they had
a good chance of getting out, and now I don't

(01:07:05):
think they have a good chance of getting out at
all because of Nathan Hoffman, the New DA. It's really
it's troubling to me. I I'm one of those people
that feel like they committed a savage crime, heinous murders,
but it was the why, and you know, they I
don't know. I've seen they're going to end up serving

(01:07:26):
let's say, thirty seven years, thirty six years. I think
that they'd be okay if they were released, and I've again,
I've gone through this in depth as to why with
their trial not being fair, the second one evidence not
being permitted, and just all of this stuff, you know,
and their record in prison now and how they've done
more in prison than some people have done out of prison.

(01:07:48):
And like I said, it's not for a five minute segment,
but I do think that it they were assaulted. They
were brutally assaulted by both of their parents for a
long time, So yeah, I think it maybe should have
and second degree murder.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
I think it's really interesting because I feel like everybody
in our world of like true crime reporting thinks that
they should one hundred percent get out and exactly what
you just said it was, in no doubt a really
horrific crime, but again you have to think of the
abuse they encountered when they were little. But I thought
it was interesting because Matt Murphy did an interview a
couple months ago with Heather MacDonald where he said he

(01:08:23):
did not want them to get out of jail, and
he was a former DA So I think it's interesting
this new guy is pushing so hard against them where
it wasn't there a sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Their resensing hearing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:32):
Is supposed to be in a couple of weeks, and
now he wants to get rid of it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Yes. And the thing is, it's like I think with
he already had said per the twenty twenty three habeas filing,
he said, no, you're not getting a new trial. That's fine.
I don't think anybody wanted a new trial. I think
at that point his lawyers, Garret Goos, was just throwing
anything against the wall to see what would stick. So
I wasn't super shocked at that. What I was more

(01:08:57):
shocked at is that he didn't think that the evidence
that they put forth between this letter from their deceased
cousin or Eric wrote this letter to his cousin saying
how bad the abuse was, and he was eighteen years old.
It was a few months before the murders. That coupled
with Roy Rosella from Menudo saying, oh, yeah, Jose Menendez
assaulted me in the Menendez house. This is corroborating evidence.

(01:09:20):
The boys were always assaulted in the house. This was
this was a place where Jose Menendez felt the most comfortable.
It all makes sense. So I think the fact that
the DA just was like, Nope, that's not good enough.
I was like, oh my gosh, well that, to me,
that really demonstrates a why this possibly it is not
murder one, even though I do agree it was it

(01:09:42):
was planned, you know what I mean, which I don't know.
It's tough. I just think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
I can see why because I like, I can understand
Matt Murphy's point, because you don't want to set a
precedent that like if even if you were abused as
a child, and because it's kind of like Gypsy Rose right,
like you're not directly killing someone in self defense, but
it's more for like a revenge or thing like once
that's precedent sent then like that kid that just killed

(01:10:09):
his mom. I'm sure he had a reason to do it.
Like any kid that's killing their parent probably like had
a fucked up childhood, right, you could you could probably
put two and two together and they might be killing
their parents people all the time. I feel like they
got added like mental issues. Yeah, until issues too, but
but a lot of times, like a fifteen year old

(01:10:31):
like that, that stuff can start popping its head at
that time. But like schizophrenia and stuff is usually older,
like in their twenties, twenties and thirties, not so young.
Not that it can't happen that young, but you just
have Like if you went on every single case, you
could look back even at that Nicholas Cruz kid that
killed all those kids in Parkland, Florida, and when you

(01:10:52):
hear about how he grew up, you're kind of like,
oh my god, that's so sad that a kid grew
up like that, and and and like of course he
screwed up when he gets older, you know. But if
you did that with every person, then no one would
ever be like, oh no, I believe you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
And it's case by case. But like with his story
Nicholas Cruz, it's kind of like, you know, I don't
care these people didn't do anything to you. Yes, you're
messed up. And with Menendez, I mean again, give them
forty years in jail, right, give them for that's an
entire lifetime. Okay. I'm not saying that they should have
gotten off, Oh my god, No, they should have definitely

(01:11:29):
gotten punished. I'm just saying at this point in time,
I don't necessarily think they're a threat to society, and
I think they deserve it a second chance at life.
But I just I you're right. I don't think that
we should set this precedent that you should get off
because you've experienced trauma and you know you were a vigilante.
I don't. I think Menendez brothers is different. I have

(01:11:52):
seen the remorse in them, you know, through various interviews.
I've seen I mean they in thirty six years, not
one fight. I mean Eric got like one fight in
nineteen ninety seven. But I mean they were you know,
there are reports of guys like throwing shit at Lyle
during sports games, just really trying to get under their skin.
And these guys just they turn the other cheek, they

(01:12:13):
go the other way. I mean, it's it's all. I
don't know, it's it's tough. It's I admit, it's not
black and white here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
It's hard too, because when you listen to like Gypsy Rose,
for example, I feel like it's a similar situation, Like
there was this not the same kind of abuse, the
sexual abuse versus this Munchau's and abuse whatever. But she
planned that murder as well. And but like if she
did it herself, not hired because the boyfriend got in trouble.

(01:12:40):
He's in jail for life, right or something that they
thought of John is it, I mean, the one that
killed her. But I'm saying, like, let's say that was
Gypsy Rose, what what trouble would she have gotten into
at that point? Because it's kind of the same thing
with the Menendez.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
I think she would have gone to prison, possibly longer.
I think the only reason she was released is because
she didn't commit the act and because of what happened
to her, which is incredibly sad. But I can also
imagine being like Nick Gotojohn is not mentally there. I mean,
I've seen interviews with him. I've kind of dug into that,
and I'm like, dude, this kid is this kid's wacky,

(01:13:17):
like and I don't know if it's like it's a
diagnosis of a mental illness, but it's sure as hell
seems like it. And when she's released and he isn't,
it is kind of weird because he wouldn't have done
it if it wasn't for her. However, he was so
fragile and crazy that I do feel like somebody in

(01:13:38):
his path may have died at some point.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
I thought I could be misremembering this because I haven't
covered this case in so long, but I thought that
she made him private to the abuse, but he like
really suggested executing that, and then she, I don't remember exactly.
I thought he had a heavier hand in it than her.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
She, I mean she she definitely, I think, as I recall,
suggested it, and he, of course, you know, exacerbated it
and was very very much a willing participant, to the
point that he even contemplated raping Dedie Blanchard, which is,
I know, horrible, and he even told Gypsy that, I mean,

(01:14:17):
it's Gypsy very guilty. But again, yeah, like, look what
was happening to her, I cannot imagine. But still it's
like to have your brain actually go to that point,
it must have been bad. You have to think to
have your brain say let's just murder her, you know
what I mean, let's just murder them. I mean, what.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
Always sticks with me is she said her life in
prison was better than her life with her mother, which
is it's very disheartening. And I must the Menenda's brothers
must feel the same way, like, yeah, you're in prison,
but at least you're not getting raped.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
Have they ever Have they ever experienced or expressed any
regret over killing the parents?

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
Oh? Yeah, one hundred percent. And that's what's so big
to me is that they You know, there's interviews from
God from Barbara Walters in nineteen ninety seven to interviews
from I don't know, maybe twenty fifteen or something like
that with Eric and Larry King, and I've analyzed those
and I think it was Larry King who asked him
when he was on with his wife Tammy, you know,

(01:15:18):
do you regret this? Like point blank? And he said immensely, so,
immensely so. And even Barbara Walters when she said, you know,
I forget what it was what she asked them, but
Eric was just like, no, I don't feel better about
anything like you think I feel good about this. This
was the whole reason he went to doctor Ozell because
he couldn't. He was about to kill himself if he

(01:15:39):
didn't tell someone what they did. And that's pretty much
why they got caught, because of doctor Ozellamy's tapes, and
you know, and like I said, don't get me started.
I just think this case is so complex, and I
think that the DA is not he's he's looking strictly
at the law, which obviously he should, and the constitution
and what happened in the aftermath of their lies, and

(01:16:02):
the fact that they blame the mafia, and it's like,
I just I think that it's more than that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
But let's get into the medical news of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:16:10):
This story, as a person that's going to have children
in the near future is bumming me out a lot,
because this woman was twenty six years old in the UK,
she got pregnant, and she had such extreme mourning sickness
that she ended up taking her own life.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Did you have morning sickness with your kids?

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
No, I was. I was very blessed. I didn't have
any type of sickness, and so I don't know what
that really feels like, did you, No?

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
I really didn't, like maybe slight waves of nausea like
once or twice, but I never threw up or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
I mean, I know Amy Schumer had talked about there's
like that condition.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
What is that called hypereminist gravitterum, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
Yeah, that's it. No, she said it was so bad
she couldn't get out. So I I, you know, my
heart goes out to these women. I have no idea
what it's like, so I feel horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
I mean, well, Kate Middleton had it too. Do you
remember that she had to get hospitalized because of it,
and everybody was like, she's so skinny and this and that.
But if you're vomiting all the time, you're not keeping
any weight on, and you're losing a lot of fluid,
it's really bad.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
I worry about this with my future endeavors because I'm
like a chronically nauseous person.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
I'm just like, this.

Speaker 3 (01:17:29):
Just seems like I understand, because like I always get
like TMI, like so nauseous around my period and stuff.
So I'm just like, I guess nothing's TMI on this
show anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
We've talked about everything, but.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
I've always I've always just so nauseous around that time,
and like I really I don't understand to this level,
of course, but being nauseous is the worst feeling on
the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
Agreed.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
I agree, and a lot of so a lot of
women that experience this condition report that their doctors or
not taking their symptoms seriously. And you could believe. You
could believe that because I mean, ray, think how many
times you went to guynecologists and Tom about this like
weird butthole cramp you get or something during your period

(01:18:14):
and they just they're just like, oh, what, like they
don't want to address what it could be, and they
just blow you off a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
For fifteen years, I've been at the doctor been like
I am in like horrific pain, Like when I have
my period, I like can't leave my house sometimes, and
like it totally goes against my personality because I'm like
I have to work all the time and I have
stuff to do. And everybody was blowing me off. And
then I started going to another doctor last year and
then there was a thought maybe I had PCOS that

(01:18:42):
was debunked a couple months later and now confirmed I
do have been to betriosis and I have to get surgery.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Oh my gosh. I've been saying this for fifteen years,
but it's so frustrating. I'm sorry, that's annoying.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
It is what it is. I feel like as women
were just so used to it, so like this doesn't
surprise me. This woman was getting blown off when she's like,
my nausea is at a level where it shouldn't be,
and they're just like, here's meds, but you really shouldn't
take them because it could harm your unborn child.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
M hmm. Yeah, no, it's true. But just to make
give you a better I am also the most nauseous person,
which is weird. I throw up in cars, I throw
up on boats. I can't even go fishing half the time,
and like I said, I really don't remember anything. Because
I agree with you, nothing is worse than when you're
either on the brink of throwing up, when you feel
so nauseous that you can't. It is hands down one

(01:19:30):
of the worst feelings that you can have. Like and
even when you don't get that relief after you throw up.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
So my god, that is the word.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Yeah, I that's crazy. This poor girl, Oh my gosh,
that's awful.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
But only they have medicine you could take, you know,
she was I mean the things worded weird because it
said she was prescribed medication and then someone told her
that it would be harmful. But I'm like, well, who
gave it to you and then who told you not
to take it because it would be harmful? I'm not sure, but.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
You you also have think like if she went as
far as to take her own life, there might have
been some underlying issues there. I mean, yeah, you know
what I mean, Like it can't be just because of her,
Like did she leave a note that said like, I
don't know, Like I didn't see anything that said she
left a note that said I am so nauseous that
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
The thing is, though, is that if you really have
this condition throughout your pregnancy, your in and out of hospitalization,
and you're chronically dehydrated and stuff, that could cause a
lot of different changes in your brain as well, just
from being in a state of like that all the time.
So it could be a direct effect of just being
chronic dehydration or I mean it just a lot of things.

(01:20:43):
Like So there's this condition that I was diagnosed with
a couple summers ago called polymorphic light eruption, And what
happens is when I'm exposed to uv L like it's
usually like the first time I'm out in the sun,
like in May or something, I get this crazy allergic
reaction in my skin and it causes this itching all

(01:21:04):
over my body that doesn't go away for like a month.
It's terrible, and but that's all it does. It's just
involves the skin. But there's all these like links of
depression associated with this condition, because imagine your skin itching
for that many days in a row and not being
able to take any medication to make it go away.
It's just like, even though it's not directly related to

(01:21:26):
any kind of brain pathology per se, it causes you
to have depression and anxiety because of the condition. So
it could be something as simple as just like feeling
like you feel so sick and you just can't believe
that there's nothing that anybody could do to help you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
You know. Yeah, that's a good point. Oh my gosh,
sounds awful.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Gosh, guys, do you guys know about this medication that's
called thalletamide. It was it was back in the nineteen
fifties and sixties that they used to get women for nausea,
wearing pregnancy, and it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
It made the babies have tiny.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
Lips yet yes, yes, yeah, So it's like I understand
being pregnant and being scared to death because they tell
you that something safe and then all of a sudden
it isn't. And during this case, I mean, I know
that this was a long time ago now, but there
were ten to twenty thousand babies that were affected. Forty
percent of them died shortly after birth, and the ones

(01:22:21):
that survived had terrible deformities like very short limbs, arms
and legs, and urinary track deformities, eye deformities. It's it
was so terrible so I could and it was just
something as simple as like nausea medication during pregnancy, So
you gotta be weary.

Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
You know, there's an actor Matt Fraser. I don't know
if you've heard of him. He's on a bunch of
the American horror stories. But he's honestly, objectively a gorgeous guy.
But he has this condition because his mom took that
medication when he was born. Like, look him up. It's

(01:22:57):
Matt with one T and then f R a s er.
You might recognize him. But like I said, he he
is very handsome, but he you can tell he has.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's really scary. So all right,
let's let's talk about the other death news. This is
kind of a lighthearted but very deep dark story as well.
I wouldn't say this is lighthearted at all. Well, it's
it's it's an interesting debate.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
I'll say, I guess, like compared to other stories we
talked about. But as person wrote into Dear Abbey, they
explained that they lost their sixteen year old daughter to
leukemia two years ago, and when they normally visit her grave,
they will put nice seasonal or holiday decorations. Other loved
ones will come by with fresh flowers or nice little trinkets.
But somebody in their family is going and putting really

(01:23:46):
tacky decorations, and one that left a stain on the gravestone.
So I guess they're writing in for advice on like,
should you make a rule that's like you can only
do certain decorations or you have to stop coming to
visit my de see daughter. So what do you guys
think about this?

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
Oh? I would be so I would be so crazy
about that because I'm just like crazy about you know,
a leaf being out of place on my front lawn.
So that would just drive me nuts. I will listen,
when you lose a child, I feel like like if
everybody else and everything else in the world, you could
just feel free to let all of your thoughts out

(01:24:24):
and if it's bothering, you tell them and who cares
who it is.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
I'm actually in agreement with you. I mean, it doesn't matter.
It's her kid, she can say what she wants. It's
you know what I mean, like, it's it's it's up
to her. Like, clearly, if I did that, I would
feel horrible. I'd be like, I'm so sorry. I would
just you know, completely back down, even if I kind of,
you know, didn't mean to or that wasn't my intention
to obviously upset her. I just would not even say

(01:24:52):
a word. I would just say I'm sorry. And I
would never do anything like that again. Yeah, because I.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
Think it's not even necessarily the appearance of the deck.
It's the fact that they're cheap and leaving stains and
like deteriorating and leaving a miss And I think people
need to be more considerate about things like that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because I don't you know, people probably
don't even think about that stuff. They like go to
the Dollar store and get these silk flowers or whatever.
But then the die, like I understand, the dies would
like run off and everything, and you don't think about
getting like high quality items for something that's going to
be outside like that all the time. It's just something
that somebody didn't something didn't they didn't think about, you know. Yeah,

(01:25:34):
all right, Laurence, So tell us about you have this special.
I saw you on TV the other day for an
advertisement for one of our exciting stories that we like
to talk about on here from time to time. So
why don't you let us know about that?

Speaker 1 (01:25:48):
Yes, you can stream it doesn't end with us on
Fox Nation Now. And it's it's actually a really it's
only thirty minutes. It'll take you through the inception of
the legal drama between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. It'll
explain it through myself and a couple of lawyers and

(01:26:08):
somebody who works in PR crisis management, which you know,
it's really helpful to hear it from all different types
of perspectives. So I actually thought I knew the case
really well and I learned a lot from from the docs.

Speaker 2 (01:26:18):
So to tell us some of what you learned because
we're always into the Blake Lively you see.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
You know when I say what I've learned, I guess
I mean like certain protocols in the legal system and
just certain things like you know, the fact that she
had to file this complaint first with the California Civil
Rights Department before she could take this public as you know,
this big giant defamation sexual harassment lawsuit. Like there's things

(01:26:45):
that she had to go through. And also the way
that I mean, you just have to watch it, Like
there's there's so many little things that I just did
not pick up on at the beginning that I was like, oh, yeah, okay,
got it, but just watch it please. I beg of
you thirty minutes. It'll it'll be great. You'll you'll really
enjoy yourself. It's escapism at its finest. And I mean,

(01:27:07):
I don't know, it's you know, it's it's kind of
like just straight privilege, Like these people have so much
time to do something like this. And I guess if
you think that Blake Lively is actually a victim, which unfortunately,
from an objective standpoint as to what I've seen so far,
I do not. So I actually think that she's you know,
it's kind of a slap on the face to real survivors.
And in my opinion, again, if this actually goes to

(01:27:32):
trial and I see all of this evidence, I will
eat my words and I will say, Blake Lively, I
am so sorry. But again, what I've seen, I don't
see a woman that has been you know, sexually harassed
and a guy that is just a total creep doing
this to her. I just I don't see it. I
saw a hostile takeover.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
I think they really like ruin their case with the
whole Saturday Night Live thing and people bringing up like
if you're if your wife was really a victim of
sexual harassment, you would never make a joke about that,
Like it's just so weird.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Yeah, at a touch and would you go to I mean,
she's at south By Southwest Film Festival this past weekend
and she still seems really inauthentic, just not genuine. She's
up there talking about how I didn't even want to
film a simple favor in Italy, but then like they
serve ice cream and lemons and like you're just like
listen to yourself and Anna Kendrick. I'm not a body

(01:28:28):
language expert, but her body language. She was just like
mm yeah, and then oh.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
I was wondering that I don't know who that chick is,
but I was like, she's grossed out right now by
like I cause I sit there and look at my
phone with the volume off all the time, right and
I'm sitting there and I'm just watching this girl in
the background, and I'm like, oh, she's like not happy
about what she's saying right now. And then I listened
to it afterwards. It's it's interesting to watch her body language. Well,

(01:28:55):
I got that funny.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
She was getting criticized for going to the premiere for
a movie which she's just going to work. But I
agree with you in the sense of you can't just
show up, do a carpet and not necessarily talk to anybody.
It's what I've been saying about Alec Baldwin too. Just
disappear for a little bit. It's okay, Well, like I.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
Am other thoughts on that. But however, Blake Lively, she
did not do the carpet. She specifically avoided the carpet,
and I know exactly why because hello acts as Hollywood
you know whoever this weekly, they'd be on the carpet
asking her about the lawsuit. But what she didn't have
to do, as you said, is get up there and
just act like so privileged, like just so. But I

(01:29:34):
agree she had to promote her movie. Fine, it just
it was strange. She just didn't seem like what she
alleges in the lawsuit that her family is going through
this emotional trauma and this emotional damage. However, you can
say from the other perspective, she has to go through
all of this. But with Alec Baldwin, I think at
this point he is going to go bankrupt, I mean rusted.

(01:29:55):
How much money did he lose on that He's got
to give it all to Helena Hutchins's family, and that's
what why I think he did this show that he's doing.
And that's also why he's got to sue uh, you know,
New Mexico, and he's got to sue the prosecutors who literally,
I mean did some shady shit. I will say not
the biggest Alec Baldwin fan, but he's I think there's

(01:30:17):
reasons that he's doing this right now.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
Oh absolutely, what else are you follow you? Yeah, what
are you working on? Anything else that you want to
talk about? Or yeah, just let everybody know.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
Stop talking. I'll stop talk. Yeah. Follow me YouTube at
pop Prime TV. You can go to my website Popcrime
dot tv, Instagram at Lauren Emily Conlin, TikTok Lauren Conlin
for that. Yeah, I feel like I'm just what am
I not working on right now? Probably too much stuff,
which is why I give everything sixty percent.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
So thank you, thanks so much for being here. It
was awesome. Thanks guys, Thank you for listening to Mother
Knows Death. As a reminder, my training is as a
pathologist's assistant. I have a master's level education and specialize
in anatomy and pathology education. I am not a doctor

(01:31:12):
and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone dead or
alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor. This show,
my website, and social media accounts are designed to educate
and inform people based on my experience working in pathology,
so they can make healthier decisions regarding their life and

(01:31:32):
well being. Always remember that science is changing every day
and the opinions expressed in this episode are based on
my knowledge of those subjects at the time of publication.
If you are having a medical problem, have a medical question,
or having a medical emergency, please contact your physician, or
visit an urgent care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review,

(01:31:58):
and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
or anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks

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