What Do You Think is Being Covered Up?

In this crossover episode of Sauce on the Side & Mother Knows Death, Gandhi talks with the MKD team about Charlie Kirk autopsy questions, what's going on with the Idaho Murder case, JFK, fake pregnancies, Psychic Silvia Brown and so much more, so brace yourself.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have a
special episode that we are doing with our friend Gandhi
from Sauce on the side.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I know, I'm so excited about this episode. By the way,
I've been waiting on it.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
We are huge fans of your show.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Same. I think you guys are amazing and I love
what you do. I said all the time, I love
women in science. It's not that women are not in science.
I feel like women don't get highlighted enough who are
in science. I think the guys get a lot of attention,
but when women are doing good things, I love it.
So yeah, thanks for doing this with me.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
It's really interesting that you say that, because, especially in
my field, it's predominantly women now. But when I started training,
it was like the older people that were there there
were more men. So it's just interesting how it's transitioning.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
And I bet that the women are just doing amazing jobs.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Oh yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
So we have like a ton of stuff to talk about, right, Yes,
I want to know how you guys. We're doing a
crossover episode, so your listeners are going to hear me,
and my listeners are going to hear you, and I'm
excited about that for a lot of reasons, but mostly
because I could talk to you all for a million
years about one hundred different things. We got started talking
about Charlie Kirk in the hallway. Yeah, I don't know

(01:16):
where you guys want to start, So I feel like
you should. You should take the lead on this and
tell us where we're going.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
All right, So I'm I've heard a rumor that they
said that he did not have an autopsy done. Mm hmm,
Charlie Kirk. But okay, I would like to know where
that came from. Officially, I think that it is very unlike.
I think that's unlikely, just the way that the law

(01:42):
works in every jurisdiction. If you have a homicide case,
it's an automatic autopsy. So I think that, you know,
we're used to maybe in LA, especially the records are public.
We can go on and we could get people's full
autopsy reports, including celebrit He's like Michael Jackson. But certain

(02:03):
states are not that open, and Utah could possibly be
one of them that they just say it's none of
the public's business and you're not having that information. So
I think that definitely after so when a person dies
in that situation at the hospital. The hospital is required

(02:23):
to report that death, and they would report it to
the Medical Examiner's office and then they would come pick
up the body and bring it to the MORG and
do the autopsy. I don't see how in any world
that wouldn't have been done. They don't even care if
he had religious exemptions or anything like. They're doing it

(02:45):
because it's going to be a court case and they're
going to have to testify, And how could anyone testify
if no one examined it.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
So the confusion is probably no autopsy versus no autopsy report,
at least to the public. You're saying there has to
be one.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
There has to be otherwise the guy who we could
talk about if he did it.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
Tyler Robinson, if he did it, because I think we're
kind of all on the same page, like, no, I
think we don't think so at this point.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
I think a lot of people are on that page.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
I was.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
I was fallen for a little while until that the
text messages came out and then I'm like, Okay, this
is weird. If they were if they were eighty year olds,
you might believe it or something. I just don't even
at our age, Like if you looked at your text
messages with your friends, they would be all abbreviations and.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Without a doubt, Yeah, I wouldn't have like some Shakespearean
wording to my significant other about nonthing. It would be
very weird.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, I just thought. I just thought that that was
weird and it just makes me question things now. But
for sure, if they're going to try to prosecute someone,
there has to be an autopsy because otherwise, how are
you gonna prove anything just because of the footage? Like, no,
that that could be for all you know, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Could they hold on to the report until the trial happens,
because we like we don't always get them right away.
Most of the time when they come out, it's because
TMS reporters are waiting and they get them immediately. But
we had requested the one for in the David case,
the less Revus autopsy report. Yes, and they're basically like,
you're not getting it until this case.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Is we still haven't gotten it, and we right, and
you paid for it, paid.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
For it, and they sent me one page that said
nothing and that's that.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
How much does it cost to request an autopsy report?
That one was.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Thirty four dollars, I believe.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
And you can request this from anyone anywhere, because I
think I might go request an autopsy report about something
that I've been interested in for a while.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I believe anybody can get certain offices depending on you. Yeah,
like for La, Yes, like New York doesn't oftentimes release
the whole report. They might just give a diagnosis or
something like that. There's all these different rules depending where
you are, but there's lots like let's talk about the

(05:04):
Brian Coberger Idaho for a case, for example. This whole time,
I haven't written about it on my website because I
was like, I want to wait and see what the
autopsy reports say. They never got released, and then they
just released a bunch of stuff because he pled guilty,
and they're still not really autopsy reports. They're more like

(05:25):
summery too. Yeah, but I've never seen an actual autopsy
report on each one of those victims yet. There's summaries
maybe some describing some of the wounds, but it's not
a full autopsy report, so that we might not ever
see that, And I guess for public interest it's probably

(05:45):
they should because there's so many questions. But at the
same time, they're scared to death that people are going
to pick it apart like another case that we're going
to talk about later. Okay, So so that right there
I think is not correct. Information is I could be wrong,
but I just don't see in a world if a
court case is happening, how there could not be an autopsy.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
I mean, it's fascinating that the more information we have
at our fingertips, it's like we have no information because
you're getting seventy thousand different people saying different things at
one time. Most of them haven't actually done the research
on how this works, or talk to a specialist who says, hey,
you can't have a murder without an autopsy report. It
doesn't mean the autopsy report is going to be accurate
or honest, but there will be a report to which

(06:30):
that was my question to you, How easy is it
to fix an autopsy report or to report something differently
from what you actually find?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, if that, if if I were to receive that
particular case, or any just anyone in this field, should
I'll tell you what should be done. They're going to
photograph the hell out of it. Right, So, even if
the report maybe doesn't one hundred percent match. They could
look at the pictures and be like an And that

(06:59):
could happen time time, especially if someone is shot a
bunch of times and there's multiple wounds to document, you
might miss one when you're writing it down. When we
are taking when we're looking at a body on the table,
we take notes, and oftentimes those notes get very bloody
because we're using pens and touching organs, and the pens

(07:21):
are bloody, the PaperWorks bloody. So then, like when I
used to do it, I would put it in a
biohazard bag that was clear, and then take it back
to my desk and rewrite what I wrote. So sometimes,
you know, there could just be a simple mistake as
far as that goes. But in a case like his,

(07:43):
I feel like there would have been witnesses to see
the autopsy, lots of documentation, just lots, and there's going
to be from not only from the autopsy, but also
from you know, he did go to the hospital and
they did appear to do some intervention on him, so
that would also be added, you know, correlated together to

(08:07):
make sure that everyone's account And then of course we
all saw the video, all of us, like everyone in
the world.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Seventy five different angles. Yeah, and I think if people
haven't been following along with this, there just are a
lot of inconsistencies with what the public is being told
and what now you're finding out, including the people who
are going back and looking at Google trend searches and
things that people searched before the incident, and how there
was a spike in certain things and then all of

(08:35):
a sudden that information was wiped, and how they're saying
this is a what do they call it? A thirty
six rifle.

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Clearly I'm not an expert of this, but there are
a lot of gun experts who say a bullet from
that specific rifle would cause so much more damage to
a human body than what actually happened, and that they
don't believe that what we saw was an entrance wound.
They believe that was an exit wound. And now there
are a lot of theories that, oh, it came from
his lava leer mic. It was a very set up

(09:06):
assassination of a person who people wanted to be silenced
for a lot of different reasons. So I'm fascinated by this.
I'm fascinated by how everything has played out since and
how little we've heard about or from the actual suspect,
who Again, I don't think any of us really believe
that this person did it, but it's just it's a wild,

(09:27):
wild ride, and it's one of those things where I wonder,
are we ever going to get the truth here? You
guys have to have some cases like that where you
feel the same way too, well.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
I mean like JFK is the first, right, Yeah, perfect
example of forensic experts going back and looking at it
and being like, yeah, no, there's no way. And I agree.
I mean, you know, my brother has a weapon similar
to that that he uses for hunting, and I was

(09:56):
really asking him like, what's the purpose of this, and
it's just like, the purpose is that you have a
moving target, you have one chance, and it's to cause
a lot of disruption inside of the body to make
sure that they're down.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
And talking about big animals, yeah, not a small not exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
So you know, my expertise is more in pathology rather
than gunshot wounds. So I don't want to say I personally,
just the things that I've seen during my training and everything,
I've seen a lot of injuries by that type of
a weapon. And they're a lot they're a lot more

(10:36):
gruesome than that particular one was. I mean, obviously he died,
so it did what it was supposed to do in
a sense, but there's just lots of different theories that
that could be an exit wound, and you're just getting
different reporting, I mean from a couple legitimate sources I

(10:58):
guess you would consider legitimate news. Like some people were
saying he was wearing a bulletproofess, some people were saying
he wasn't. That could change things because the bullet could
ricochet off of that and things like that. So we
don't have like any documentation except to hearsay at this point.
Even some of the interviews like his friends have done afterwards,
you could kind of get a series of like he

(11:20):
was in the car and they were saying there was
a chance that they would restored a pulse and all
of that. But like when I saw that video, it
was very jarring because I knew he was dead, right, Yeah,
So it's just this is just going to be the
way life is from now on with every single thing

(11:43):
that happens as far because anytime something goes on social media,
you just have people that are experts in every single field.
I just saw this cool video. Actually, I'll send it
to you if I could find it. But this guy
had the same as that gun, and he was a
firearms expert, and he had put it together with this

(12:05):
little key they said he used that. He took it
apart and was showing how long it took to do
it and how big it was and how you couldn't
like jump off the side of the building with it
in your pants and all of this stuff. And you're
just looking at that, and that guy's not involved in
the case. But when you look at him doing it,
you're like, well, there is there another way to do it?

(12:28):
Or is like this it and that was not possible?
So it does you do listen to people and you're like,
oh shit, like maybe maybe this is this is not
how they're telling us. And honestly, like they have a
history of this. I don't know who they is necessarily,
but the government with JFK. You know what's funny. My

(12:51):
husband and my kids we took a road trip and
we drove through Dallas because I wanted to see the
sixth floor of the of the book. Yeah, I always
mess this up because my father in law always calls
it the depository or the depository. You got it right, Yeah,
I got it right. And then I'm like, I keep

(13:13):
telling them I'm gonna kill you because you're gonna make
me slip one day. But yeah, So they have a
museum on the sixth floor there where Oswald was supposed
to be when he shot him. And I thought it
was really bizarre because the whole corner of that building
where he was standing at that window was blocked off
with a large piece of plexiglass and nobody was allowed
to go near it, right, and I'll.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
Actually get a good view of what his view would
be exactly Deally Plaza.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Ridiculous, Yes, And you're just like, there's a reason for that,
because they know that people that are experts are gonna
go up there and take pictures and measurements and optics
or whatever they're gonna do and be like, yeah, no,
that didn't happen.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, And even they say the way that the Secret
Service reacted to it at the time, slowing down after
they thought there was a threat versus speeding up. I
mean there are people you guys went there obviously. My
parents used to live in Dallas. Oh, my dad took me,
and he was just all over the place loved this,
and he was talking about how there were so many
discrepancies and now there are all these people on that area,

(14:10):
in that area who will show you kind of what
you were saying, like trajectories of actually he was hit
by more than one bullet from more than one angle.
Then they slowed down to sort of let it happen,
and then they sped off. It was just wild and
then of course conveniently leave Harvey Oswald is killed before.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
He got talk, which was which was so outrageous, right, Like,
you have the most wanted man right now in custody
and you're just like letting him walk around like that.
You just can't even believe this stuff is true. But see, but.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Like people are saying, Tyler Robinson could be.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
It's yeah exactly. But even think about the jewel heist
that just happened, Jake, You're just like, this is still
happening that You're just like, how is this possible that that,
in twenty twenty five, with such things that should be protected,
that somebody was able to just go get it right.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
It didn't seem that sophisticated at the Louver, No, it
was just you know, it seemed very amateur hour, but
they were able to get all these priceless jewels. You know,
they immediately took all the jewels out and sold them off.
They're already gone. It's not the same as trying to
move artwork.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, and I mean a lot of people are saying
this hints at an inside job with the because it
was such a cake walking broad daylight. Yeah, so ridiculous.
There are other cases that we wanted to talk about too,
and one of them, well, actually, what did you guys
what cases have been on your minds lately?

Speaker 3 (15:39):
But what have we been covering the most recently?

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Well, we listen. We I don't know what happened last
week that Sylvia Brown the psychic has been making the
rounds on social media. Still alive, No, she's dead.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Well, she's an internet sensation as of last week. I
woke up one morning she had sent me twelve videos
of horrible things she was saying people, and then Etel
did a skin of her that weekend.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
It was so weird. So I was like, oh, we
gotta we gotta dig into this because it's like you're
around my age, right, So it's like that just it
reminds me of you know, you get home from school
and it was on at that weird like three o'clock
hour that nobody's really home except moms or something, you
know what I mean, Like only certain people were seeing that,

(16:26):
and now you look at it and you're like, this
lady was so outrageous the stuff she was saying, like
the mental harm she was probably causing on people. Like
there was a woman that was saying that she was
having problems struggling with fertility, and she was like, well,
I ever have my own child and she's like no,
Well what about Like it's so messed up, and you're like,

(16:48):
that's terrible.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
What if just what if she really is psychic and
she really did get that information was just passing it
on because she was very like blunt about a lot
of things, ridicular death those I sure didn't I think
that's right said.

Speaker 3 (17:03):
And then she was gaslighting a woman whose husband died
in nine to eleven that he actually drowned and she's like, no,
he was a firefighter. At nine to eleven. She co going, no,
he drowned.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
She's like, I keep seeing him in water. And then
she was like maybe it was the hose and I
was like, yeah, it's the first reported fire, you know,
drowning from a fire hose hose.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Oh lord.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
But by the way, that the cause of death in
those cases was like a blunt trauma building collapse, not
like was there fires being put out? Really, I'm sure
there were, but like we all saw what happened, right, So.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
And then we have the case. Do you know about
the fake pregnancy scandal that's taking over TikTok right now?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
I don't, but Diamond is nodding her head, yes, So
please and for me.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
This girl named Kia Cousins allegedly faked her well, not
even allegedly. There's a bunch of videos and stuff. She
faked a pregnancy by wearing a fake belly. She was
giving her family ultrasound pictures, videos of the baby kicking.
She even said the baby had a heart defect that
won doctor's appointment. So then all of a sudden, she
gets mad at the baby's father and decides he's not

(18:08):
going to be in the hospital room when she gives birth.
So I said, red flag right there, because even if
you really don't want your partner in there or whatever,
somebody's gonna come visit you at the hospital.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
So she has this.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Baby allegedly, and then her it comes time for her
family to beat it and they're holding this child and
they're like, oh, the baby's cold, it's not moving, it's
not breathing.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
It was a doll.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Oh God, thank god. I thought, okay, okay, So she
is clearly unwell mentally, yes, right, what where did this
come from? What did she think she was gonna be
able to pull off with all of this? Like, we
just does nobody know that you're pregnant? If your face,
I guess, if you're not that close and people aren't
touching you, what do I know?

Speaker 1 (18:50):
To me?

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Though?

Speaker 3 (18:51):
I saw a video from her baby shower and you
can see the strap of the fake belly and saying,
why is nobody questioning this?

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Because it's weird?

Speaker 3 (19:01):
And then you like this is remember this.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Girl a couple months ago lake and Snelling. Her name
was she was a cheerleader at a university who gave
birth and put the baby in a closet, and the
baby was found dead in a bag in her closet.
So when when you go back and look at pictures
that she was posting on social media, any person in
the world she was a cheerleader. You could tell that

(19:28):
her body was cheerleader. It wasn't like, you know, my
she had a cheerleader body. And then all of a
sudden she she looked pregnant, like a pregnant person, and
no one around her said anything, but like, I'm pretty
sure everybody thought they thought it. It's just like there's

(19:50):
certain things you just don't say out left right right.
One of them is like, is that bump fake? One
of them is are you pregnant if you're just fat?

Speaker 5 (19:59):
Right? Like?

Speaker 1 (20:00):
So I think that that's what it had to do with,
like people saw it, but they just.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
It's the same with cancer fakers too, write cancer fakers. Yeah,
a lot of people do it, but it's one thing
you're never gonna doubt that somebody actually, would you know,
have an illness like that or go to the lengths
and make something up, because if you did, you're really
horrible person. Then people don't want to accept that. So
I think it's kind of the same thing. One of
her friends was saying she was a pathological liar and

(20:27):
she suspected it was fake, but nobody wanted to say anything.
They didn't want to be that person.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Did you guys. Ever watch the documentary. I'm looking up
exactly what the girl's name was.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
Mel Lanson.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
No, oh yeah, Bel Gibson, Yes, yes, the worst influencer
in the world. He told everyone she had brain cancer,
and it just floated through so many different and balances
where it should have been stopped, including Apple. They gave
her a whole app at the app store because she
told everyone she ate her way and lived a healthy
lifestyle and somehow got out of brain cancer. And it

(21:13):
took one of her friends being like, I don't know, man,
where'd you go to the hospital? Like, which hospital did
you go to? Yes, who's your doctor? She's out here
saying doctor Phil and that was it. And then they
start asking specialists while you know, if she said it's
in her spleen from her brain, and as you would know, Nicole, yeah, no,
that's not really something that apparently happens. And if it

(21:33):
has gotten that far in any way, whichever direction it
was traveling, you would be riddled and nearly dead if
it got that far right, but it doesn't even happen
that way.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Well, I wonder if they have any confirmed people that
have died after using her method, since she swore it
worked and cured her.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
That's what I That was the whole thing that we
were talking about too, because how irresponsible, yes, for everyone
to just take somebody's word and go with it.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
She was a pretty good businesswoman actually, but maybe she
just you know, was inspired by a different idea, had
a different story behind her business. I think she still
could have been very successful and some front, but instead
she just went on this crazy path of lying her
whole life.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
I actually know someone through someone who faked cancer, and
that person, the middle person was messaging me and asking
me questions because she started suspecting it. And then when
she was asking me, I was like, Yeah, that's not
how that would go down. No, No, there's one thing.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
If you're trying to, you know, be like I got
all these tests and they're thinking it's cancer. Right to
tell people that, but to actually commit to it, put
a fake porthole, do all this other stuff. It's horrible.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I think it brings us back to a conversation that
we were sort of talking about off the air, which
is something Diamond and I talked about in a podcast
not long ago. Mental health issues are very real, yeah,
and we need to pay attention to them. But that
absolve people from also being assholes. Yeah, these are two
separate things that can exist at the same time. Kanye
West can be very mentally ill and also were he

(23:09):
completely healthy, still be an asshole. Yeah, And some people
might argue that about Britney Spears or whomever.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
It's an interesting take. And I think people are so
careful now about not wanting to offend anybody when it
comes to mental health, because you don't you don't want
to alienate people, and you don't want to create this
stigma around it. But we also can't just give everyone
a pass because they claim that they have a mental
health issue. That's not fair.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
No, And I think there's I mean, we talked about
a case on our episode is that coming out today
or yeah this week about a teenager who killed his
mom's boyfriend, but not only killed this guy, cut his
head off, scooped his brains out, put it in a blender. Oh,

(23:57):
and then you think like, oh my god. And he
was diagnosed with schizophrenia when he was a teenager, an
early thirteen year old, and the mom had him on
treatment this whole time, and he was doing okay, but
then he turned eighteen and she had no control anymore.
She said that the doctor had changed his medications, and

(24:20):
then he hasn't been right since, and she is totally
out of control of his medical treatment. And then he
goes and does something like this. And we talk about
the case that just happened in August with the Irena
woman who was on the train, which almost had an

(24:42):
exact thing. That that guy had schizophrenia. His mom again
was involved and getting him treatment and trying, but like
ultimately these people grow up and become adults and then
there's no one in charge. So in cases like that,
like this guy that I'm talking about that just happened
in New York, when he went to the hospital, he

(25:03):
thought he was in a fight with someone, like he
didn't even realize what happened. He was covered in this
guy's blood and like he's out of his mind right.
So that is like a severe mental illness. You see
it walking around the streets here, I'm sure, just like
people talking to themselves. And if you've ever seen these
simulations of people who are having hallucinations, it's terrifying. It's

(25:25):
absolutely terrifying to think that you're seeing things and hearing
things when you're trying to like walk down the street
and just be in reality. So you could almost kind
of I don't want to say justified.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
But like.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
They're not treated they're not treated well. But then like Brittany, but.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
We kind of you know, the conversation we have when
we were talking about Britney Spears is do you draw
the line at well personally? This where I draw my
line somebody that can function in society versus not. So
you could have somebody like a schizophrenic person in the
story you were just saying that that person can drive,
they can't pay their bills, they can't cook for themselves,
and they have a mental illness. But then you have

(26:05):
people with narcissism that are going to work every day
and functioning normally, but they have a personality disorder too.
So I think a large part of that is people
that are genuinely so out of their minds that they
can't function day to day as a human And I
think maybe that's where we should look at it. That's
just my personal thoughts on it. But what do you
feel about it?

Speaker 2 (26:25):
And which way? What do I feel about what?

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Like, just like the lines with forgiving people because they
have an illness that can't be treated.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Everyone has everyone. Yeah, really if you do, you watch
videos of like you have a d D, you have autism?
Sure like everybody couldn't be given something so so that
and and then the personality disorders you have narcissistic? Uh
what about antisocial and stuff like that, like because they're
seen in people who are serial killers.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, yeah, like cool shooters.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
So I would personally, I would draw the line at
and it doesn't matter what my line is because I'm
not making any type of legislation, But I would say
my line is, are you a threat to me? Are
you a threat to other people? If you are just
a person who talks to yourself and walks down the
street and you don't want to take your meds, and
that's that, and maybe you won't function in society, but
you're also not gonna hurt anybody. That's one thing. If

(27:20):
you are a threat to me showing up at my
door in the middle of the night with a knife, yeah,
that's where I draw the line. You don't get to
just have a pass because maybe you're not well in
the head, because now your illness could affect me and
could affect people that I care about. That's my line.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
I think that what about in more social situations? So
like Kanye and Britney spearits were not talking about like
them physically assaulting a person. It's more just social and
family relations. And I mean, if you sit there and
think about every dad that's ever been a deadbeat and

(27:56):
a jerk and left his family, you could be like, Okay,
that guy's had some mental health is so that doesn't
excuse it.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I don't excuse either of them, honestly, and to be fair,
who am I to excuse anyone? Like I said, nobody
cares about my opinion. But I think it's going to
be well, thank you. I think this is going to
be a very unpopular opinion. I think Brittany is more
dangerous than Kanye. I think that Kanye is clearly a
loose cannon and the man is popping off. We haven't

(28:23):
heard any reports of him being violent. Am I wrong?
Have we heard reports of him being violent?

Speaker 3 (28:28):
I agree with you one hundred percent on that.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, he yells, he rants, he gives away Lamborghini's, and
he fucks up his business deals. Okay, Britney, there are reports,
whether they are substantiated or not, at this point, but
there are reports numerous that in fact, she has been
a little bit violent and has threatened violence, and that
to me is scarier than someone just yelling like a

(28:50):
lunatic on the subway.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Yeah, and I agree that I do think she's more dangerous.
And I, oh, no, we need to get down this
capital again, especially you and I. But this is saying
on our show, just why you know. I can sit
there and say, Kevin Federline is every right to write
his own book and try to get money, and he
was married to her, and he should get the child's
wort because he is the father and he is raising

(29:12):
her kids and everything. But at the same time, she's
so mentally unwell that it comes across his exploitation in
a way. Because I'm seeing it as these kids grew
up with this totally unstable mother in their life, and
why just add fuel to the fire. They know how
bad she is in the world knows how bad she is.
We don't need to know she did cocaine and breast
better kids. I think we could all assume she I

(29:34):
want to know.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Also, like Kevin Federline hasn't had the best reputation this
entire time, and like I was like, that dude seems
I mean, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes,
but from the appearances, it seems that he's a decent dude.
Like he took his kids out of a situation that
that lady would be. Anybody if she lived in your neighborhood,
you'd be like that bitch is whack, Like, don't let

(30:00):
your kids near her, right, Like, he took them far
away and like tried to raise them in a normal
as normal of a life as possible.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
We didn't see a lot or hear a lot from
them when.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
They're kids, and they were just they were just trying
to be I mean, how can you possibly grow up
normal in that situation? So I think that he wanted
to be like, no, let me tell you what was
really going down this whole time.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
I just think when she talks badly about him, like
I see it as like I don't accept what she
says in some regard because of her condition. So I
think a lot of people are defending it as he's
coming out defending himself, and I understand that, and he
has a right to do that. I'm just saying I
don't really agree with the way in which he's going
about it.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
Okay, I can understand that. I just I think in
all of this he has been pretty quiet, and he
did take those kids and go away and raise them
and was fairly quiet for a very long time. And
I think in a very interesting way, there are some
gender biases here, because if Brittany was the dad Kevin
was the mom, everyone would be applauding him and saying like, yes, girls,

(31:05):
speak your truth, like tell us what's going on, and
they would have I mean, Nicole to your point too.
If that was the dad that lived in the neighborhood,
everyone would be like, that guy should not have custody
of these kids. This dude is a loose cannon. But
I think because it's a very beloved pop star and
it's a woman versus a man, there are some differences
there that people are just sort of overlooking. Oh yeah,

(31:26):
it's it's a wild thing that's happening in all this.
Everybody was so quick to say free Brittany, and then
when she was free, it was not who's taking care
of her? All the people who were yelling at they're
not there for her.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, and I do, I mean, listen, like I'm compassionate.
I feel terrible for her. I feel like, yeah, they
I mean, if you think about when that Baby One
More Time video came out, she was sixteen, and they
were just like making her like school girl like effable, right,
Like that's what the vibe was.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Weird. It's so weird.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Like it's just weird, and and like she blew up
so much, and and then it's like she got pregnant
and had these kids and then like went back out
on stage and her body wasn't that like weirdly flat
belly I've never had in my whole life, by the way,
but but like that inverted like she looked like, okay,
she don't have organs. Yeah, yeah, she had that look before.

(32:19):
And then everybody she never got quite where she was
before that, And how do you like, it's a lot
for a young person to go through, and then on
top of that, you're dealing with possibly just like postpartum depression,
which people get, and the whole and then you're doing
drugs on top of it, which isn't how if you
are doing drugs, but I and everybody around her is

(32:40):
using her because of her commodity. It's it's terrible, but
she like, that's not these boys' fault.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
No, it's not. The whole thing is. It's very sad.
It's a sad situation, all of it. And I, like
I said, I'm not an expert. My opinion doesn't really matter.
I just think it's very interesting to watch how all
of these things unfold, the differences that people kind of
assign to certain things.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
And if you want to go back to Kanye for example,
like so let's say he's just like a normal dude
living with mental illness, he could have been like totally fine,
like as if he was like a commoner like us, Right, Yeah,
But like, I mean, he's got some points as far
as that family goes as far in my opinion, like

(33:25):
they don't live like normal people. They have this very
anti man thing going on over there that they don't
seem to really respect a man's role in life. I
personally feel that way.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
I don't watch it, so I can't weigh in on that.
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
I just think that there's it's a lot of like
we don't need you here kind of a vibe, and
I feel like it's just I don't know, they did
it to they did it to Chris Jenner like or
Caitlyn Jenner. I just got that vibe when I did
watch it when I was younger, that he was just

(34:00):
and they're along for the ride and they.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
You're the sperm downer. We run the show.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah, And and like I think that the sexualization thing
and the kid, like that kid is my daughter's age exactly.
They were born within a couple months of each other
in Northwest. Okay, that kid has a phone. My daughter
doesn't have a phone. The kid's on TikTok doing videos.
It's just like like you're you're putting this kid out

(34:26):
there that's not ready to handle what's about to come
with that. People call her fat, like she doesn't even
need that in her life. So and then they're divorced,
so he has no control over any of it. And
I and I do think that from multiple father's perspectives
that when they're watching their kid get raised from afar,
that that is, you know, a point of stress. All

(34:48):
I'm trying to say is like that is inducing his
his mental condition further, like those kinds of triggers, I
would say.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
So, this is interesting that we're talking about this in
this episode right now, because last week on my podcast,
I had a guy named Nico balasteroson who did six
years with Kanye West, and all he did was film.
He created this documentary from three thousand hours of footage.
He boiled it down to like an hour and forty
four minutes, and in it you see some very interesting things,

(35:17):
some really sad things. But I got almost the opposite
impression of Kim Kardashian and how she was treating Kanye
and Diamond. You do watch the show, right, Do you
have something to say about this and how they treat
men and how because I can't speak on it, but
I can't speak on his Nico Nico in a second,
So what are your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
My thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner at the time, I think
that he kind of gave up his I guess male
role in his relationship with Chris early on, Like she
was his manager and she was the reason why he
was making money at that point because she was booking
him all of his like speaking engagements, which they said

(35:56):
was their main income as a family. And I think
he kind of like you could see that he was defeated.
He didn't really like she ran the show, but also
like she was his boss technically too, So I feel
like that could have been the reason why.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, and in that case, you know what I mean. Yeah,
And she was going through all the gender stuff, like
there was a lot of stuff going on too, Like
I don't know, I just I don't. It just seems
like there's a lot of like you don't see like
every one of them has kids. The dad's not around,
you know what I mean. Like, it's just it's just

(36:29):
something that I've taken note of and like, listen half
of couple's break up and this and that, so that's
what's going on. But it's just kind of it's just
interesting to me to look at.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
It's definitely, I mean, I know people talk about it
all the time. They always say the Kardashians are man ruiners.
Oh my gosh, look at what they've done to these guys,
And they do seem to not have the fathers around
in a lot of this. But in this documentary that
this guy Nico did, I saw a very different version
of Kim Kardashian than anything I expected. And and I'm
saying that again from not watching the show, kind of

(37:02):
only gleaning a little bits from pop culture. She was
very patient with him, and she was very loving toward him,
and when he would be freaking out and doing his
you know, very crazy little having his episodes in his spirals,
she would try her hardest to calm him down, to

(37:22):
try and talk to him sensibly, and to work with
him going through all of this, and it seemed like,
not seemed like what her final straw was when he
started going off and talking about how she wanted to
have an abortion with North, and that's when Kim was
finally like, you know what this is it, I'm not
going to take this abuse anymore from you verbally, I'm
not going to deal with this anymore. And I was

(37:43):
very surprised by that because it seemed to me I
had the same impression as you about the whole family
and from not really watching. If you guys watched it more,
you would have a better grasp on it. But I
think they are interesting. It's an interesting group of people
over there, and it is maybe that they are man ruiners,
or maybe that they're just bad at choosing people to

(38:04):
be in their lives as father figures, because from what
we know about Chloe Diamond, correct me if I'm wrong,
she's a lover girl, and she's been cheated on by
like every single dude who came around. But that father
is still in the picture. Even though he did her dirty,
she still has him come over tuck them in, like
they're very much raising those kids together.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
So I don't know, I don't think they're man ruiners necessarily.
I think they have a very particular vision for their family,
and it's kind of like you're not fitting the mold.
So if you're not going to go along with the program,
then you got to get the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
I aspire to be that way.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
It could also be like men. Men sometimes can be
very intimidated by women that are more successful than them,
very much so. So I mean there's definitely I mean,
the Kanye West thing's interesting because he's not some rando
basketball player that nobody ever heard of, like he was

(39:01):
a really big deal very much So, I don't know,
and I do I think that his I mean, some
of his rants online are clear of some kind of
underlying psychological issue. I don't I mean, like there's something
going on there for sure, But I'm just thinking. I
just think that with all of with all, it's Brittany too,

(39:22):
it's any famous person like the I can't imagine. Like
I was using this as an example. We went to
crime Con a couple of weeks ago, right, so it's
it's awesome, right, It's really awesome. But like when I'm
a regular person on the street walking around, like nobody
knows who I am. But then if I go to
crime Con, it's like every a lot of people there

(39:43):
know who I am, and I get stopped. Can we
take a picture? Can can you sign this?

Speaker 5 (39:47):
Can you?

Speaker 1 (39:47):
And I love it? It's great, right, But like I
was thinking, if I had that every single day of
my life when I left the house, it would be
a lot for your life.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Just you have to move.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
You can't live where you live. You can't go to
the store, you can't just go to Wawah and get
a hookie, right, like right, So putting that pressure on
it because like I've like I got my own mental
stuff going on, and I'm just like putting pressure like
that on top of somebody that's already struggling is a
recipe for disaster, you know it is.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I think it's a really interesting commentary on us as
a culture and how we consume things and what we
expect of the people we're consuming it from and sort
of this parasocial relationship people build. I'm sure you guys
watched Monster the ed Geen story.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
So we had covered that case a couple of years ago.
One was it when we covered cannibals?

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Yeah, we did it. We did a whole entire Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
I started the show, I saw it was taking a
lot of artistic liberties.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
So yeah, I kind of pulled it back.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
But I really like the Monster series. I loved the
Dahmer series. I really like the Menendas one. I just
think this one was going a little too far. This
story is already so incredibly disturbing. I don't think we
need to make it even worse.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Wait, so what do you mean artistic? Like they're just
making it more extra than it needs to be.

Speaker 2 (41:09):
Or there were a lot of because I went down
the rabbit hole on this and looked up like what
was true and what was not, and there was just
a lot of creative license that they used to one
sort of assign him intention and motive behind what he
did when he wasn't very clear about why he did
what he did. There is controversy about whether or not
he ever did dress as a woman period, and if

(41:29):
that was part of what led him to this path,
his weird relationship with his mom. Yeah, and the entire
storyline with Adeline was inaccurate because there's a conflicting report
of whether or not they even had a relationship, because
she said initially yeah, we had an on and off
again relationship for twenty years, and then immediately came out
and said no, I made that up because she was

(41:51):
a bit off as well. So there's just a lot
of like filling in the blanks that I don't necessarily
think he Ryan Murphy or whoever the care was that
wrote all of this. It's not based in fact, where
I think a lot of the other stuff was more factual.
This seems more like half fantasy, half truth, and like
a fan fiction version of what happened.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, I understand that.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
But the thing that was crazy to me about it
and what really made me take a step back, was
up until him, because I didn't realize he was the
inspiration behind Psycho and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, the Hannibal Electer,
Buffalo Bill, there were a lot of things that he
was the inspiration for, and until him, it was always
ghosts and monsters and goblins. It was like Frankenstein and Dracula,

(42:36):
that's what people were afraid of. And then came along
a human that was very terrifying, more terrifying than a monster,
and people couldn't get enough of it. And look how
it changed just the version of culture that we take
in Now. Monsters are scary, but people are way scarier,
and we like kind of glorify it.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Well, this is so on point for right now. So
we just wrote an article about the evolution of Halloween
and it was really interesting to see. Like, I mean,
when I was a kid, we had jack o' lantern's
and like a Frankenstein thing to hang up on the wall.
And now people's displays outside are like full on re

(43:17):
enactments of murder scenes to the point where police are
showing up and thinking that someone was killed.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
And we're just like ha ha yay, and I want
candy too.

Speaker 3 (43:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Very bizarre, right, so.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Weird, and it's like we're we're literally celebrating celebrating murder
one day a year. I mean, I went to the
you know, the big Halloween store with my kids and
there's a whole aisle of knives covered in blood and
I'm just like, oh, I wonder how the Coburger's victims'
families feel about seeing this when they go to target
or something, and it's like, oh, it's okay, this is okay,

(43:52):
just one day a year. The rest of the day,
we were just at that oddities thing. I saw a
little kid just as Michael Mike well Myer's holding a knife.
Had to be four five.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
See, that's the stuff. II have nightmares.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
But like if you saw a child walking around with
a fake knife, it's and why are fake knives? Okay?
Fake on's totally taboo, but like fake knives totally cool.
Like it's it's getting weird.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Getting weird out there, right, It's very weird because Halloween
started as this festival in Ireland to celebrate the end
of the harvest season going into winter, and they thought
there was this you know, dulled barrier between the other
world and they would dance around a fire pit to
try to scare off spirits. And then obviously with the

(44:39):
Irish potato fam and they had a mass migration over
here into Canada and everything, and Halloween started coming over here.
And then they kind of pinpointed around the seventies when
the movie Halloween came out that's when our culture started
shifting into this ultra obsession with just gory things, scary
things and.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Killing women who are slunning.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
It's just that's how it just, you know, for hundreds
of years, was one thing and just very quickly shifted
into another.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I think, kind of on the same topic. I was
just in Salem, Massachusetts, and I lived in Boston for
a while, so I've been there a few times, and
it's really bizarre how people flock to this area where
they killed witches. They didn't kill witches. They killed women
who were just accused of being maybe smart or having
a little too much SaaS. They just killed them. And
now once a year people come down to Salem or up,

(45:28):
I should say, from here up to Salem and mass
to go and see where these women died in these
ridiculously brutal ways for no reason. And it's not a
weird thing to people. It's just like, oh, yeah, take
me on that tour. I want to see where each
one of them died. Bizarro.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, and horrific. That's where most of them sat on fire,
crushed by stones. Yes, horrific.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
It is just like what's happening is weird. The costumes
are weird, like little kids dressed up as Jeffrey Dahmer.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Like, I think we've transitioned into this period where people
think it's cool to die.

Speaker 4 (46:05):
Not me, I'm talking a lot. I think you're right, though.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
I do think there's a lot of weird glorification of
things now that wasn't necessarily there before. And how did
we get here as a society?

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Where did this?

Speaker 2 (46:25):
Where do you guys think it came from?

Speaker 1 (46:28):
You should see. I gotta show you pictures of some
of these Halloween displays. This one person has a wood
chipper on their lawn with like a leg sticking out
of it and blood squirting out of it. Actively sane
people smeared across, like a guy looking like he was
climbing up a ladder, fell like smeared all over. There's
a there's one with a man that's smashed up against

(46:51):
a tree with an actual car that's dented up against it.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
See.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I feel like when I was little, the most wild
thing I would see would be the witch that looked
like she smashed into the side of the house. Yes,
like that was it and that was funny, ha ha,
and that was it. You just kind of let it go.
But now it's like yes, and then the displays like
the things people are eating at the Halloween parties, it's
like a brain and the salami is the guts of
the stomach, you know, whatever else it's It is very strange.
I wonder if other countries look at us and they're
like these crackheads.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
No, they do because because like my members on the website,
they write comments and they're just like, yeah, that it's
not like that over here, Like no, it's it's just
really it's just really interesting to watch and and just
the think it's just okay, just this one time.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
I just think people can't. Going back to what you
were saying about ed Yan too, it's just people can't
wrap their head around people doing these things, and that
that's where the natural fascination comes. And then now with
social media, when we could get every single detail possible
about every single crime that occurs, it just has made
it so much worse. I mean, we go to crime

(47:57):
con which is a true crime convention where they have
up to eight thousand people going to hear about crimes
and it's insane.

Speaker 4 (48:04):
But it's all women too.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
But crime comes very because there is a fine line
of exploitation versus taste, you know, and it's very tasteful.
It's very, very very because all of the speakers are
people like either myself that do this as a profession,

(48:26):
but just other professions forensic toxicologists, forensic investigators. I recently
met the guy one of the men who were involved
with the Boston marathon bombing and the investigation with that,
which I'm hoping to get on the show. But like
people are, they're police and investigators and just coming out

(48:49):
and talking about how they caught these people, like from
a scientific perspective. And then you have the whole subset
of people too that are victims, family that speak about
their side of it, and lots of missing people. I mean,
people were coming up to me just their daughter's been

(49:09):
missing for twenty years and geat, like.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
That has to get very heavy.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
It just it's not it's it is they have a wall.
That's one of the most horrible things for me to think,
because death is final and missing is not final.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Right, You're just sitting with a pit this mother, Like
I looked at.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
This mother in her eyes and there was like something
missing in her you know. Of course, it just broke
my heart, Like I just I just can't wrap my
head around.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
That they had this wall there where you can put
up information about a missing loved one, and last year
they actually found I think two or three people oh
wow for me on the wall.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
So that's nice.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
It's been an incredible resource to have and it really
does help families. I think that's why we love going
there so much, because you know there is the fine line,
but when you're there, you never feel like anybody's being
disrespectful or exploiting it. Everybody is there to try to
help or because they're curious.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
So is most of crime calm centered around murder and
death or are there like jewelry heists and that kind
of crime involved too.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
They do other crimes. They have a lot of like
cult activity. They had a firearms expert going over that
Alex Baldwin shooting. That was interesting.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
And then also what's up with that talk about that
that this is like celebrities just living the most. He
could have killed another person accidentally.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Like Hillary's on my top ten most annoying people that
I ever see about.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
In the first Hilary of Baldwin, I will not call
Hilary okay, I think It's crazy that that no one,
really nobody is seeing like she's still allowed to pull
off that act.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Like I mean, I I'm not sure she is.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
Because she got voted off Dancing with the Stars real quick.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
People were like not taking it as a personal attack.
I saw that she is being extra annoying about it.
I did see that.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, the and I'm forty one, Like, what does I
have to do with anythink you're a fraud? That's why
nobody wants to watch.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
But we had a question like do you think da
she played that role to him? And he actually thought
like believed her. And now he's like seven kids.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
In This is a tough one. I don't know because
I have very limited interaction with either of them. I
did one panel discussion with him one time, and it
was a wild time. It was the day after uh
Trump won the election for the second time, and you
know that Alec Baldwin very much goes in the other

(51:42):
direction from that. Yeah, so he looked like he had
been up for one hundred and seventy two hours. Oh,
he was very tired and he was enraged. I don't
think I got the best example. Yeah, I would say
that is, but the example I did get one hundred
percent shore that he lives in reality, So I don't

(52:04):
know that he ever cared to like investigate. He was
probably just like, this is a character, and I like
this character. Yes, yeah, I don't know. There's it was wild.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
The comedian Heather McDonald always says on her show she
has a really good point that at the time they met,
thirty rock was going on and he had been with
Selma Hayek and the show, and he had expressed interest
publicly in Spanish women.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
So she she thinks I'll be that.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yes, she thinks she was influenced by the character on
the show and just kind of came up to him
and played it off, and he's exactly like, I don't
give a shit, you're hot. We could get married. I
don't care where you went to high school, and.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
Here we are.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know, but we've It's funny
that this is at least the second time Hilaria Baldwin
Hillary as you call her uh has been addressed on
this show, because we had Crystal Mine Crystal Kong Minkoff
and and she was just dying about how Hilaria and
the Cucumber video is one of her favorite things of

(53:02):
all time. Yeah, it's so good, And I think this
is something that like women really only care about and
know about. Oh yeah, I don't know a ton of
guys who if you said who she is, would know
or know any of this background about her. But women
are fascinated by it. It's kind of hilarious.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Because you think about think about doing that in real life.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
I think about all the time.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
It's so outrageous, right, you know, I was just thinking
I loved what was that movie? Alcohol one was in
that we used to watch a bunch, the one, the
one with U who was in it, like Meryl Street?

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Oh, Nancy Myers. What is it called? The one where
that you know, where they're divorced.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
It just came out.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Oh it's complicated.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Y oh, okay, that's a great movie.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
So, like social media is ruined or just the way
things are right now are ruining things for actors and
actresses because I just don't really care to know about
your crazy ass life and your and you're weird shit.
Like if this was back and then in like the
nineteen fifties or something with like you know, do you.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Think people knew all about Carrie Grant's innerword.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
But there's like a little mystery and you just watch
them and you love them on the screen and that's it.
And now it's like I get turned off by certain
people because I'm like, ew, I don't really want to
know you like that, Like, now we.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Have to make decisions we didn't have to make. I mean,
none of us were alive back then. But I don't
think they had to make the decision to separate the
art from the artists, because an artist was just an artist,
whereas now you were like, or I should say, the
art was just the art. Now you have a really
great singer and then you find out that like maybe
they killed chickens in their closet for fun, and you're like, well, damn,

(54:44):
but I really liked that song. Now can I not
like that song?

Speaker 3 (54:47):
You know?

Speaker 2 (54:47):
We see that with Diddy, with R Kelly, with a
lot of these people right now that it's like, well,
I do sometimes wish we didn't have as much information. However, Guiltily,
when I hear some things, I'm like, give me more
of that. That's crazy.

Speaker 4 (55:02):
But yeah, like.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Like Michael Jackson, that's a good example actually, because I
feel like when I was a kid. I was like
obsessed with Michael Jackson from the time, like I had
Thriller on a Fisher Price like record player. Nice, right, Okay,
And then these accusations came out and then they were
out and they kind of went away, and you're just
kind of like, yeah, it's probably not true. They just
want him for money. But then it's like, so then

(55:26):
I liked him, and then it's like you watch The
Neverland that what was it called finding? And then I
was like, whoa, this is this really? Is this true?
Is this what was happening? And just even some of
the stuff that's definitely true about the him sending the
faxes to the kid and stuff like even if he
didn't do anything, I just think that that is really
bizarre behavior for a grown like a grown man.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I mean we saw the things we saw him do.
We're bizarre behavior for a grown man. Doug getting a
baby over the balcony, being super besties with like that
little chimpanzee that you have the voice and general the
way he has to speak. There was a lot that
was clearly I mean red flag after red flag, but
people just wanted the art, yeah, and they didn't want
to think about who the artist behind it was and
what they were doing. And by the way, I realized

(56:11):
we were really talking a little inside baseball with Hilaria
Baldwin or as you call her Hillary for people who
don't know. She is married to Alec Baldwin. She is
significantly younger than him. They got together and immediately just
started popping out, kid after kid after kid. They are
up to seven is it seven?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Now?

Speaker 2 (56:27):
They're up to seven? He had kids before, so I
think he's like the father of ten or something like that.
And she always spoke with this accent, like a tiny
bit of a Spanish accent. And there are videos of
her doing, you know, a cooking demonstration where she's talking
about a cucumber and she's like, in how you say
in English cucumber, and then it comes out there. She

(56:47):
was born and raised in Boston, so everybody was like,
the fuck, what is this.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
I'm not calling her Hilario because it's not her name.
Her legal name is Hillary.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Didn't they name one of their kids Hilaria, yess whatever.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
One of the kid's name is Ilaria.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Diamond is over here chuckling.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It's so pathological, right.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
The funny thing, though, is that Alec Baldwin's other daughter
from with Kim Besinger Ireland Baldwin. I think she's the
most wonderful stepmother in the world.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
And you know what, maybe she is. Maybe because we
only get little pieces, maybe we're all wrong and she's
just this goofy, quirky person who got a little too far.
But in reality she's just the nicest, you know, most
down to earth, misunderstood person.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Did you ever hear the voicemail he left Ireland by.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
The way, Oh yeah, you've rude, vile, a little pig.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Yeah she was, I think she was. Have you ever
heard this?

Speaker 2 (57:42):
She was like twelve?

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Imagine are you believing Lillian that voy.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
No, I really can't listen.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
I had immigrant parents, liked perc like like they would
do that to me now for sure. One of the
other things that we were talking about, which I'm fascinated by,
and Nicole you said you think that it's gonna be
maybe an unpopular or viewpoint that you have on it,
is the case of Ellen Greenberg. And you guys are
from Pennsylvania. This happened in Pennsylvania. Before we get into it,

(58:12):
describe what happened here, like what the case is about.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
So in twenty eleven, it was Saint Maria. By the way,
Oh okay, I feel like I know more of this,
or when we do the podcast, I usually do the details.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Then she goes yeah, and I'm like, this is Maria's Yes,
She's like, what year was that?

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Where did it happen? Okay? So twenty eleven, it was
a snow day, everybody sent home from work and this woman,
Ellen Greenberg, she was a school teacher. She goes home,
she's in her house with her in her apartment with
her fiance, and the fiance goes, I'm going to the
gym in the building. He comes back a little bit later.
The door is locked, he can't get in. He kicks

(58:50):
it down. He finds her with all these stab wounds
and a knife sticking out of her chest. So I
guess for the controversy. She comes in as she was
brought to the Medical exam office, and they originally declared
her death a homicide, but then a couple of weeks
later switched it to a suicide, which is extremely unusual.
And then recent reports have come out that or they

(59:12):
recently reevaluated the case and have decided it's still a suicide,
but her parents have been in court trying to get
her manner of death switched to undetermined at the very
least or back to homicide. Four years. They are fighting
for justice for her because the investigation was so botched
and they just really don't know what happened. But you
could speak more to that.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Well, can I ask one question about this sure? Because
she wasn't just it wasn't just like twenty some stab
wounds to the front of her body. It was stab
wounds to the back of her body, her head, her neck,
like all over places where if you somehow were able
to do that to yourself, there was probably like a
psychotic break or something else happening. Yeah, but they didn't
necessarily have a ton of information to support that something

(59:55):
like that would have happened, right.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Well, it I didn't see the docum memory, so I
can't say, okay, and I really should watch it because
I want to see, because I think that there there's
possibly a little bit of a spin on it, because
you know, whenever you make it, Yeah, when you when
when you want something to be your way, you're going
to do that. And I agree the whole situation is

(01:00:18):
weird for murder. I would say women women killing them
themselves is less anyway, just suicides are less in females anyway.
But then to stab yourself to death, it's there's not
many reported cases of it. Although side note, I was
just talking to people that I know that work in

(01:00:39):
another office that said they've been seeing an increasing number
of suicides that are weird and lots of people who
are stabbing themselves to death. So it's not un it's
not impossible, it's just very uncommon. And so especially for
a woman to do something like that statistically is just
not very common.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
So this is your your take, based solely on data,
solely on data.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Then I personally don't by all accounts, she had a
good relationship with this guy. There was no history of
anything abnormal. But like, I don't really think that she
had a great relationship with him, because she had called
her parents prior to this happening saying that she wanted
to move home because she was stressed out or something

(01:01:28):
with her teaching job. And I find that very bizarre
when you're when you have a living boyfriend and you're
in a good relationship. They were engaged, like setting out
wedding invitations like almost there. I find that to be
a little bit of weird behavior that you would want
to go home with your parents. I think the only
thing that would make you want to go home with
your parent house wasn't good in your current That's my

(01:01:51):
I mean, I could speak from really like why boyfriends
and lived? Why else would you want to leave because
you were having a hard time with something else? It's
she was almost thirty, It's it's a little unusual.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
There are so many questions about this, and I think
for me, the biggest question in all of it was
he did have to kick down the door, not just
because it was locked, but the dead bolt inside, like
the chain was on from the inside as well. So
how do people explain that? Like what happened here? Again,
maybe we'll never know what. I'm interested in your takes.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
There's just theories floating around that that building in particular
had a problem with that if you slammed the door
too hard, it would kind of just go. So I
heard that recently. I mean we watched YouTube videos where
like you can very easily kind of get in through
those things.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Yeah, and like and like, so you know, my husband's
a firefighter and he breaks into houses sometimes because he
has to for a fire. And I showed it to
him and he was just like that it doesn't to him,
it didn't look like he thought that if the door
was busted open, that that that chain would have been
ripped off that wall, that it wouldn't have been like

(01:03:01):
pulled out a little bit, you know what I mean.
So that he's just like, that's not it wouldn't look
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
So, I mean, he sees a discrepancy on even the
reporting that the chain was.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Actually no, there's pictures of it, but the chain is
only partially pulled out of the wood. It's not like
ripped like you would think if you actually had the
bust open the door, the thing would rip out, you
know what I mean, out of the wood because it's
going across. It just wouldn't be like slightly. It's almost
something you could do if you had the chain locked

(01:03:32):
and you pushed the door a bunch of times and
it didn't it like messed the wood up, but didn't
fully pull it off of the wood.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
So then, in your best opinion, with the information that
you guys have, what do you think happened?

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
I go back and forth because there's other strong things
like did you hear the nine one one call? Did
they play that in the documentary?

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
I was only kind of half watching. It was weird, okay,
Like he he went and most likely said she stabbed
herself or she fell on a knife or thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
It fell on her knife, he said, which was weird.
But he's also like looking around, I don't know what's wrong.
And then oh, she stabbed herself. There's a knife in
her chest. And I'm just kind of like you think
about let's say you walked in here, for example, and
Elvis was on the Well, use Elvis as an example.
He's on the floor, dead and bloody, okay, and there's

(01:04:21):
a knife in his chest. Are you gonna be like
he stabbed himself. No, you're gonna be like, holy shit,
somebody just killed him.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I would immediately look at Timon and be like, how
are you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
My theory is that a lot of the coverage of
this case is very biased, and they don't talk a
lot about her mental health history. She was on and
off a lot of psychiatric medicine.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Yeah, that's what That's what I was asking earlier.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
And I'm wondering if subconsciously he said that because she
had made suicidal threats in the past, so that's automatically
where his mind went to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
I'm not saying that, No, that's that's in the differential, Marius.

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
Yeah, I'm not saying that makes him innocent. But at
the same time, it's important to note this guy has
never been arrested or even considered a suspect in this crime.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
So let's talk about her psychistory a little. So when
she made that call to her parents, her dad was like,
you can come home, but I want you to see
a psychiatrist first, And she went to a psychiatrist three
times in one week. I'm sorry, but like, that's weird
to me. When do you ever unless you're having a crisis, right, So.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Maybe she wasn't. Maybe that was also the kind of
catalyst I want to move home exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
She was first put on Zoloft, which is known to
take a couple of weeks to kick in. Within three days,
her anxiety was so bad that in the sleep, not
sleeping and stuff, that they gave her a Xanax. Then
they gave her ambient. This all happened in the course
of two weeks. She was on Zoloft, xanax ambient like

(01:05:55):
it could have just been a dangerous combination of drugs.
You know, you put someone on zoloft, like they tell
you to wean on those drugs, and wean off those
drugs for a reason because it messes with the chemicals
in your brain. So there's a potential. Like I don't know,
because I did. I have asked this question several times.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
Have they done.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Have they consulted any psychiatrists to see if this particular
combination of drug can lead to an acute psychotic event?
Like because she was sitting there at the kitchen cutting
fruit and then all of a sudden, if it is
true that she killed herself, something snapped and she just
started stabbing herself. There there were no accounts that well,

(01:06:39):
I don't want to say no, but that particular day
when she left school during the snowstorm, she filled her
tank of gas. Like, if you know you're going home
to kill yourself, why would you get a full tank
of gas? Certain things like that, Why would you be
cutting fruit, like you're making yourself a salad for a
fruit salad?

Speaker 5 (01:06:54):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
But then, I mean, I don't know. I just think
that they looked at her history and they found these
searches on her computer. But talk about the the botch
part of the police investigation, which is there was there
was a loss of So whenever you're doing a crime investigation,
you have what's called like there's a chain of custody,

(01:07:18):
right that once it leaves that chain, then there's a
potential that things can get altered and evidence can be
destroyed and the wild Yeah, and because they treated this
as a suicide right away, like the apparently the cops

(01:07:38):
automatically were like, we think this is a suicide and stuff.
The body went to the medical examiner was getting autopsied,
and they said it was a homicide. But like the
cops were in like this is a suicide mode and
weren't treating it as a crime scene.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
They didn't preserve evidence. Now, they stepped all over the
crime scene. They did all kinds of stuff that you
would not do.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Yeah, next day they released the scene that night and
the next day the apartment got fully cleaned.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
And didn't he have an uncle that was somewhere the boyfriend,
Ye had an uncle that was somewhere in the police
department or in the government of some sort. And they
came in computers. They picked all the computers.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Up Yeah, there was like there was like he was
a lawyer. There's like some connection with Josh Shapiro.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
There's like this hole and they called crime scene cleaners, Yeah,
specifically crime scene cleaners to come clean it up.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
I just met and they and the computer. So the
computer left this chain of costody for until they got
it back a couple days later, weeks later, whatever. But like,
who knows what was done to it? You, I mean,
there's some big nerds out there that could like make
bake Google searches, you know what I mean. That could
all be sure, but it could be real.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
So what do you think it is? What do you
think happened? You're not sure. I just think the probably
can't be.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I think she just wants an answer, I know, I
just want to know what you think.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
I I just think it's one of those like in
the Karen Read case too. I don't know if you're
familiar with that Boston Hell.

Speaker 5 (01:09:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
So I think it's one of those ones where you know,
she in the media is being presented as a one
hundred percent mentally sound person that just was found in
this particular situation. I think the medications and the wanting
to move home and the psychiatrists appointments is important to
bring up because I think it makes the suicide option likely,

(01:09:25):
whereas when people are seeing it covered only one way,
of course, it doesn't seem like that's possible at all.
But I think because of how botched it was, it's
just impossible to tell what really happened. And I think
it's the same with Karen the Karen Read case too,
Karen Reid.

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
Fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
What do you guy and I agree to that one?

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
Oh wait, no, finish what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
I was gonna say just because I you know, I
did my rotations at that office, and I know all
of these doctors who are involved.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
With this case with d Ellen Greenberg case, yes, okay, And.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
I've worked with them like a long time, some of them,
and I know there and and I just want to
say that the emmy who recently has just signed it
as a suicide still, I haven't worked with her since
before Lillian was born, so twelve years. But when she
was a resident under me, and she was I would

(01:10:18):
consider her to be a good doctor. I thought that
she was very interested in autopsies from the time she
was a medical student. I knew her since she was
a medical student. She's she's always been on the autopsy track.
I did autopsies with this person, and she was very thorough.
She was one of the better doctors to do autopsies with.

(01:10:40):
So I don't know, like I can't say what she's
been doing in the past years, but I feel like
if she looked at it again now, what she's supposed
to do. She was young, she was in her she
was in her twenties when that when that Ellen Greenberg
case happened. She's just commenting and looking at pictures now
and reading reports. That's all she could do. She doesn't

(01:11:00):
have the body, so like you only could look at
what you have in front of you, and I guess
this is what this is what I just said to Andrew.
I think that it's possible that it's a suicide, but
it's it's not probable, like if that if that makes sense,

(01:11:21):
if anything's possible in pathology, anything, there's always a first
of something.

Speaker 4 (01:11:34):
In all of this.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Because it is around Halloween time, right, how much do
you guys believe or not believe and like paranormal activity
when it comes to a crazy case like this. So
my immediate thought and I know this is very KOOKI
we don't know what happened with this woman. Something snapped
in her. Maybe something snapped in her and all of

(01:11:56):
a sudden it was almost like a maybe mini possession
or psychotic break, whatever it was possibly for her to
do this to herself. Have you, guys, ever seen any
cases where you're like, the only explanation for this is
something otherworldly? Do you ever think that?

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
I don't listen. I used to when I worked in
the hospital with Frank, my autopsy partner, who is amazing.
He just died this year. He was Yeah, he was
the coolest dude ever, old school guy. There was this
guy that worked in the lab with us who was
a ghost hunter, and he used to come up to
us and be like, I want to come in the

(01:12:34):
morgan see if there's any spirits around you guys and stuff.
And Frank would be like, man, get the fuck out
of here, like it was so great because we're and
Frank has done thousands of autopsies because he was he
was in his seventies when he retired, right like it
just and he was doing them when they back in
the day when they were doing a lot of them,

(01:12:55):
and me and him would always talk about it, and
just I'd be like, I just never been I've been
around dead bodies by myself, cut them, this and that,
and I've never had an experience. I don't want to
say that like it's impossible, because anything's possible, but but like,
I've personally never had an experience, frank, never had an
experience of anything. And you would think like people that

(01:13:17):
work with dead people would have the most experience with it, right, right, So,
or maybe you're.

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
So desensitized to it because it's around you all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Who's to say, yeah, exactly and.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Your answer, your short answer is no, you haven't ever.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
I just felt that I thought that, Yeah, I don't.
I just don't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Yeah, I'm about you, Maria, you know I you know, we.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
We covered Sylvia Brown recently, and then you know, we
have listeners too who claim they could like talk to
the dead and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
And I have a friend who does.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
I it's not that I don't believe.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
I believe does she though, Like, you don't know, I've
never had her do it with me.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
I've never I mean, I know that the response she
gets from people is overwhelming. Holy shit, I can't believe you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Knew that really, yeah, because Teresa Caputo, it's not Teresa Capudo.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Her name is Gina. She actually as my hair and
makeup artist, and yeah, okay, amazing and incredible, but I've
never ever dealt with her on that level in any
of this. Okay, But I just hear feedback from other
people who are like, oh my god, I can't believe
you knew that. So I don't have my own opinion
formed about it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
I I'm kind of the same way, like I I'm
sitting here neutral, like I can be. I could hear
somebody say they talk to them, and if they give
me a convincing argument, I'll believe them. But I also
can just look at science and be like, when you're dead,
you're dead, you know. So I think I think somebody
recently asked us how we thought about religion, and I
kind of thought the same way. Like it's not that

(01:14:39):
I don't I don't necessarily believe in the concept of
heaven or hell, but I don't really think when you're dead,
you're just gone.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
I was gonna ask you that the two of you
working so closely and knowing so much about death, especially you, Nicole,
do you believe that the soul is an entity that
transfers from your body to something else or somewhere else
when you die. Or do you think when you're dead,
you're dead.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Well, what it does to an extent, but we're we're
all living here. Like when I die, my children have
I have a piece?

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Sometimes I look in the mirror as I'm getting older
and I'm like, holy shit, like I look like my grandmam.
Like it's crazy, you know, it's not like like you
you leave a piece of you with everyone that you
surround yourself with, including especially your genetics.

Speaker 5 (01:15:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
So I don't know, Like I just I feel like
the fact that there's so many different religions and so
many different beliefs, it's kind of like and they're not
like some of them are vastly different. I'm kind of like, eh,
I understand. I understand the point of it, because I

(01:15:43):
can't imagine going through a really bad tragedy with a
loved one, and especially with one of my children and
my husband like it. I'll probably start saying in my
head like I can't wait to see you again in
heaven because it's the only way that I would ever
be able to live in other day.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Yeah, but like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
But like is it real, Like nobody knows if it's real,
Like nobody knows, So it's like it's all an imagination.
And I just don't particularly do that right now, but
like I'm sure i'll, i'll, I could see grabbing for
that for sure. But that's why I think it's important
in your day to day life to make an impact
on everyone and not wait for that and have that

(01:16:25):
unsettled business, so to say.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
And I think the concept of heaven and hell is
a really great way to keep the masses who don't
have a lot of independent thought in line. Yeah, you
want to scare them, that's great, And it's you know,
clearly working in a lot of ways, I believe, and
Diamond and I have definitely talked about this before. I
think the soul is actually a form of energy. There
are like studies more recently and researchers who have pinpointed

(01:16:49):
like almost light leaving your body, and it could be
temperature related, it could be all kinds of stuff. Right
when when you pass away. I think that this body
that we all have is just sort of like our
cage while we're on Earth, and when it passes and
it's done, whatever is in there, in that spirit and
that soul, it's released, and then you gotta do whatever
you want and go wherever you want. That's my thought
about it, because if I think, like maybe matter is

(01:17:11):
never created or destroyed, and the soul is a thing,
then it can't be destroyed. It has to go somewhere else.
I don't think it like floats into an animal or
a rock or something like that. But I just wonder, like,
do you skip off into the universe. The universe is
quite big, There's so much to discover, And what if
this body that we have is the thing that keeps
us here and unable to go that far? Maybe death
really is that sweet release that people talk about. Yeah,

(01:17:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
It's I feel like we just smoked weed. I do
see do you see colors? Like, do you think that
you see the color red the same I see the
color red. Now, that is a thing I've thought about
since I was like fourteen. I swear, yeah, I wonder.
I wonder me too, But I but I can. I
can definitely equate it to being in my closet with

(01:17:56):
my friend and smoking weed. That's when those thoughts start
to come.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
But but yeah, like there's definitely. I mean, I think
it's pretty definite that you could say that there's a
soul because all you you have like think about this,
like just from what happened with Charlie kirk Itz, Like
you're watching this video of this animated person talking and
then all of a sudden, it's gone like that quick,
Like that's what when you're looking at a dead body,

(01:18:25):
It's just that there's no there's no like I mean,
it's dead, there's no there's no any energy there. Kind
of it's weird to say. It's just like when people say,
are you scared to be in a room with a
dead body, I'm like, no, it's it's the same as
as like a chair, to you, a chair exactly Like
there's nothing there. And I don't know how to I
don't really know how to explain it. But you see

(01:18:47):
it when especially when you see people get killed in
front of you. Hopefully people don't have to witness that, yeah,
but but you see it. It's just like like that
can't it's just gone, and you're like, what is that?
That has to be something, you know what I mean,
it's different than any other living thing even really you

(01:19:08):
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:19:09):
It truly is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
I'm just interested to hear from you guys, like what
your take on that was, Diamond, what's your take on it?
You gotta come over here to the microphone.

Speaker 5 (01:19:20):
Just think it. Like you said a little bit earlier,
you have to, in my opinion, at least trick yourself
into thinking that you're going to see these people again.
So like, that's just the way that I was raised
to think about it. My family is really religious or not,

(01:19:40):
like it's more spiritual. So that's just the way that
I've always thought about it. And I've always felt like
bad for people who don't think that way, because I
feel like death is so final, so it would break
my heart to even think about the fact that I
never see certain people again, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
So like yeah, so so then religion is for the
living and not for the dead, Like that's that's how
I look at it. I specifically remember being at my uncle.
My uncle, he he was not young, he was in
his fifties and dropped dead from a heart attack, and
I remember being at his funeral and just the priest

(01:20:23):
we were raised Catholic, and the priests saying, you know, oh,
he's going up to a better place now and all this,
and I was and then it clicked and I was like, oh, okay,
this is this is the only way that my aunt,
my cousins are going to be able to like leave
this church and like live on the rest, you know, absolutely,
And and it's it's it's a good it's a good
thing to have because otherwise, like what you know, some

(01:20:47):
if you lose your your your husband, your wife, your kids,
like somebody really sibling, whatever, somebody close to you, Like,
how do you live the rest of your life in
any kind of peace?

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
I think it's funny that so many people and I
will I'll leave it here with the pothead conversation, But
so many people think religion and science work against each other,
and I actually think they kind of worked together in
a lot of ways, because there was a time when
science filled the gaps or I should nope, reverse, there
was a time that religion filled the gaps that science
couldn't fill because people didn't know things. So if a

(01:21:19):
church was the only building standing after a crazy tornado,
they were like, wow, it's because it was a church,
But oh, maybe in fact, it was because it was
built of steel and everything else was not. Yeah, And
you know, my kids having a seizure and when I
took them to the church, the seizure stopped. Well maybe
the kid just stopped having the seizure by the time
you got to the church. So a lot of religion
sort of filled these gaps until science came along and said, well,

(01:21:41):
this is actually what's happening. But at the end of
all the science we know, there is still just one
more thing that we don't know. And I think that's
where religion kind of comes back into it. And I
think religion definitely gives people an answer or at least
a feeling of comfort to the great unknown that can
be terrifying to so many people, which is why I
never argue religion with anyone. I'm like, if you need that,

(01:22:03):
get it, Yeah, good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
Yeah I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
As long as you're not stepping on my rights and
coming at me telling me what I have to do,
We're not gonna argue about this. I want everyone to
have something that gives them that type of peace. But
it is an interesting relationship between the two that people
think can't exist, and I think they totally exist together.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Yeah, I agree with that one hundred percent. I think
that you think about all these personalities that are just
larger than life, Like someone like Marilyn Monroe, for example,
just had this this personality that like still lives today
kind of right, and you're like, they can't just die
and just be dead like a mass of nothing, right,

(01:22:39):
Like there has to be something. I don't know what
it is. It's above my pay grade, but I agree
with what you said one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
I feel like that's a good note for us to
wrap it up on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
I think so too. Yeah, that was so philosophical and beautiful.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
I think you guys are awesome and I would love
to do more crossover episodes. Yeah, the time you want to. Yes,
keep me posted and thanks for having me be part
of your crossover episode.

Speaker 5 (01:23:06):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
Yes, the best. This is the best.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
So if people want to find you guys online, how
can they do that?

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
My instagram is at missus m R S Underscore and
Jimmy A n G E M I And our podcast
is at Mother.

Speaker 3 (01:23:24):
Nos Death and I'm at Maria q Kine and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Our website is the grossroom dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
And you've got a book out already and another one
on the way. Yes, which where can they find the book.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
The book can be anywhere, Amazon wherever. What's uh, Nicole
and Jemmy's Anatomy Book. I know you're like, could you
help me, Nicole and Jemmy's Anatomy Book. It's pink, it's cute.
It's in Barnes and Noble, but it's also on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
And it's cute.

Speaker 3 (01:23:56):
Sorry, but there's inside.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
There are her terrific things inside. You're going to open
it and be like, oh my god, your.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
Book is not yet up for pre order. You don't
even have an official.

Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
It's not I didn't even finish writing it yet. That's
not coming out till twenty twenty seven though.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
But that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's good. I feel like it's going
to be awesome. And there's there's very few celebrity death books, actually,
and this one is going to be a different kind
of a perspective than anything I've seen. So I'm excited
about that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
And you're covering some of the most sensational celebrity deaths,
your take on it, and you have all of like
the research and the autopsy reports and all these different
things you guys are going to analyze and then come
to your own conclusions.

Speaker 1 (01:24:37):
About Yeah, and I mean it's not even just highly
publicized ones. It's just everyday ones, like people Alex Trabeka
used to watch on Jeopardy and just like everywhere one
of them. Yeah, just like random people, Steve Jobs and
you know, just everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
All right, I love it. I can't wait. So you
guys started this podcast out, so I feel like you
should close it. However, you close your podcast by the way.
I'm at Baby Hot Sauce on Instagram, and that's really it.
You can find our I love your necklace.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
By the way. It's so cute.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
It says Baby Hot Sauce.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
I feel like it's perfect.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
Thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
I've weirdly enough, we think I'm still shadow band because
they flagged me as a child predator.

Speaker 4 (01:25:15):
I am, you are too.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Oh it's so bad. It's so bad, and you want
to hear. I'll tell you later what I did to
figure it out.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Oh, okay, I can't. I have a friend at Meta
who was like, oh, yeah, definitely, because you can't put
baby in Hot together.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
I'm like, give me all bright, I can't this friend
do anything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
He tried, and for a minute I felt like I
was flying again. And then clearly my wings have been clipped,
but I will not give up the name, so at
Baby Hot Sauce and obviously this podcast sauce on the
side along with Mother Nos Death. You can get on
the iHeart app or anywhere you get podcasts. But how
do you close it out?

Speaker 4 (01:25:48):
All right?

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
Guys? Well, please head over to Apple or Spotify, leavers
or review, subscribe to our YouTube channel, and if you
have questions, comments, and no concerns, please email them to
stories at Mothernosdeath dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
Five fe