December 18, 2025 • 44 mins
This week, Kyle hosts award-winning actor, best-selling author, UNICEF Ambassador & producer Simu Liu, who regales us with tales of being a stock photo legend, why he pursued acting over accounting, how he broke into Hollywood & navigates the industry, teenage rebellion & popstar aspirations, powerful nudges from extraordinary people, and what it was like making history as the first Asian Marvel superhero. Kyle gets the inside scoop on Simu’s experiences acting & producing THE COPENHAGEN TEST (out December 27 on Peacock) and working with Greta Gerwig on BARBIE before the masks & capes come out for a captivating game called, “Simu and His Superhero Sidekick.”
Tune in every Thursday for new episodes of What Are We Even Doing?
Executive Producers: iHeart Media, Elvis Duran Podcast Network, and Full Picture Productions Executive Produced for Full Picture Productions by Desiree Gruber + Anne Walls Gordon
Produced by Ben Fingeret, Nora Faber, and Maia Mizrahi
Editing by Mikey Harmon and Nicholas Giuricich
Research by Kimberly Walls
Music by Yatta
Art by Danica Robinson
Additional GFX by Chris Olfers/The Southern Influence
Styling by Dot Bass
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What are we even do? What are we even doing?
Welcome to what are we even doing? I'm Kyle McLachlin,
your host for the Evening. We don't even know it's evening,
but I'm your host where we sit down with creatives
and we talk about their journey, figure out what makes
them tick. We're going to get weird together in a
(00:22):
good way. And today, very excited an actor in one
of my favorite movies, Shaun Chi Did I pronounce it
all right? Yeah? And Legend of the Ten Ten Rings, okay,
one of my favorites. Yeah, but also Barbie thank you, yes, indeed, musician, author,
former stock image model. We can get into that real deeply, seamoodly.
(00:44):
It's so nice to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thank you here much for having me here, Kyle. I
prefer the term stock photo legend. That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I can understand what that would be.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Maybe the most probably the best successful stock photo model
of all time. I say it, unless I'm mistaken, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I would say you are. Can you very few things
I can brag? Could you tell me about your name? First?
Lou Liu? Yeah, Lou my Chinese.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was born in China, so my name is my
name is Liu Smu, and my parents very rightly figured
out that no one would would be able to pronounce
that here me included. But they also were They also didn't,
you know, a lot of immigrant families would give their
would give their kids, specifically from from China, would give
their kids an English name, and so I could have
been like a Simon Liu or a Steve Liu, but
(01:29):
they didn't. They held out, and so I was always Simu,
and it was it was kind of the bane of
my existence for a really long time, because I think
when you're young, you just like, at least in the nineties,
it was like not cool to be different.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, and I think that's pretty true when I was
going in the sixties. Yeah, not cool. Kyle was challenging.
Really oh yeah, oh I would have given anything moved
in Kyle.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh you know now you say and then and then
you know, once you join the Screen Actors Guild, you're like, oh,
this is kind of cool you one and all. It's
nice to be yeah. Yeah, when you're on air, yeah,
you modify anything.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah. I've definitely grown to really love my name. Yeah. Yeah,
that's good. It's cool, thank you. Yeah, it's very cool.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I still do have to spell it out every time
I'm ordering at Starbucks, though, I'm always like, like I am,
or sometimes I don't even say my name, just put
do you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ever put in a fake? I? Sometimes I just say
it's Bill. So I start every interview with a question
of just about was there a moment for you, kind
of a flash of or inspiration where you this is
what I either want to do or this is what
I should be doing. Yeah, started it, you know, because
I know you had a different You've had a different trajectory.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, not a not a straight line by
any means. Yeah, it was probably like when I first
came to Canada, when we first immigrated, and like I
didn't speak any English and it was four and a
half four and a half five, and among amongst other things,
you know, watching like Old Spielberg movies and like Star
Wars really like formed the basis of my English language, right,
(03:01):
So I really kind of was exposed to movies and
those types of movies from a really young age and
I think that really caught me and had a profound
impact on me. But that being said, I think when
when it came time to decide what to.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Do with my career.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It was like we were a family in you know, Toronto, Canada.
We didn't have any connections to the entertainment industry. It
was just like so kind of unheard of. I never
really gave myself permission to pursue it. So the moment
of inspiration that came in my in my actual career
was I think answering a Craigslist ad to be an
extra on a Geermo del Toro movie that was shooting
(03:36):
in Toronto. And I was working on Bay Street, which
is kind of like our Wall Street as an accountant
at the time, and so I skipped work to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I got caught, I got fired, but it was yeah,
because no one knows the actual story. They know you
were fired, but well it was because you were pursuing.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, it's all it's all connect Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay,
Now I was. I was sitting at the you know,
it was like sitting in the que I don't even
think we had cubicles, but as a as a first
year account and I was I was just freaking terrible
at it, you know, and I hated my life every day.
It just wasn't wasn't the right situation for me, and
I would I would go on Craigslist because I would daydream,
and this one one day, I just you know, it
(04:12):
was like it it was like that ad was tailor
made for me. It was like if you believe in
whatever higher power of the universe, just like in that moment,
they were like looking for Asian extras age twenty to
forty five.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You're like, I was twenty two.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was like, this is my I'm going to be
a star.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You name have to be Simu. Yeah, you know, like exactly, exactly, Yes,
that's my name. It's perfect for me. And I made
eleven dollars an hour. You know, you made more than
me my first thing. Really, we have a very interesting,
strangely similar story really where you said something earlier, you
said I didn't give myself permission. Yeah, which was my
case as well. It's something I grew up. You know.
(04:49):
I did plays in high school and in college and
loved it, loved it and felt so comfortable at home.
But it's like, but I can't do this, this is
not you know, I can't make a living at this. Yeah,
and my parents as well. No connection to the business. Yeah,
but I just you know, it was one of those
things where I finally just gave up and said, it's
really the only thing I'm good at. I guess it.
We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's so funny that you the way that you
phrase it is that you gave up. It's almost like
a surrender to the inevitable right of like always knowing
that this this there's this like thing that's building inside you,
and you're like, finally just surrender to it.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So you had this experience. Yeah, it cost me my job.
It cost you your job, Like your parents are like,
what the hell? Yeah, I actually didn't tell them for
very long. Good for you, that's for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So I got home that day kind of unemployed, with
you know, box of my stuff, and I was like, Jesus,
what am I gonna do?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
But I had an audition the next day.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Weirdly, I had gotten myself into this like student film
of something, and I thought, well, let me just go
to this audition and see what happens. And I booked
that part and that student film is out there somewhere,
which I deeply regret.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But you find that I have a I have a
cracked team. Here, get it right now, see if we
can do it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I think it was like I think it was
like racially offensive. We don't have to we don't have
to pursue that angle. But I will say, you know,
it's there's no regrets. I think you do what you
have to do in the beginning, and yeah, and the
way before I really understood what I was even doing. Yeah,
but yeah, I just kind of took that as a
sign from the universe to kind of just put one
foot in front of the other just to see. And
(06:25):
I didn't really have an end goal or a plan.
Maybe you did or maybe you didn't, but it was
just like, let's just do what. Let's just get the
next one. Yeah, you know, let's just get the next one.
Let's just get on a on a set, and then
we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Sometimes it was as an extra. Sometimes it was unpaid.
Sometimes it was ten bucks wich.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You did what I think is the most important thing
for young actors, which is just work somehow some way,
student film friends getting together. I mean, anything you can
do to just have practice and skill and feel more
comfortable and get a sense of what it is. I
think that is so incredibly important you were doing intuitively.
I mean, I know you you have a lot of skills,
(07:04):
and I'm wondering did those skills come when when always
were you always miser when you were you always you know,
did you always enjoy because you move really really well,
And I'm wondering was dance part of it or did
you train in any way? What was your sort of
when you were just a kid, maybe not focused necessarily
on academics. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that when
(07:25):
your parents loved that, but yeah, I am really were
so happy, so supportive.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, it was really I think for the for the
first few years of my life, like at once I
hit puberty, I was really obsessed with the with this
idea of like being a pop star. Actually that's what
I wanted, right, Okay. Girl that I had a crush
on in fifth grade.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Highly influential period of time.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Jacqueline Dobson. Yeah, she she was a big and sink fan.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And it's you know, it's like it's it's easy to
see why, right, they're really tight ship. You know, great dancers, yes,
great singers, and so with that all that totally totally
and so without having any again, any connections or any
training whatsoever, started like singing in the shower really just
like by repetition because I couldn't admit it to my parents,
(08:09):
you know, I couldn't really admit it to anyone. But
I was just like, wouldn't it be cool.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
If I and you tell this a little secret? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And then and then I would like go to these
school dances and and and then I you know, I
would like do dance my little heart out. And then
when I got to college, randomly I joined the like
hip hop dance club and then made the competitive dance team.
So that was like my first.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Hip hop dancer. You're like, I think by bye bye
still skills.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Like a like a little bit in there, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, that's such a great I mean you were training,
you didn't, I mean for something, you know, for something else.
It's like I have a skill set that I'm going
to use and I've gotten really good at Yeah, and
it is going to I'm going to use it, you
know what I mean somewhere even though you didn't know
how you were going to use it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Sure, sure, yeah that is It is crazy how I'm
in my parents side all the time too, because I
you know, I was trying to hide it from them,
but they knew, you know, they would see me like, yeah,
bouncing around.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Did they encourage discouraged very much? Discourage all right, actively discouraged. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I don't want to throw them under the bus or anything.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
No, that's I think that you know, parents, everyone they
come to they have to come to things in their
own time, like my parents were. My mom was actually
supportive because she was kind of she was in the arts.
And then my dad was sort of some disdain but
also like he was also trying to be helpful and
supportive because of his whole experience when he was younger.
He had a whole thing where his dad made him,
you know, go through a certain career which he hated
(09:33):
and all that kind Yeah, he follow that track. Yeah,
and he was like, I'm not going to do that.
But at the same time, he was like, you know,
couldn't he have chosen something? Yeah that I can at
least understand. And then of course, as you may be
the same for you you find success and they're suddenly
like they're very supportive and very on board and very
happy for you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, there's yeah, definitely a version of that. I
mean for my parents who were both like electrical engineers
and both Chinese, just the amount of like sacrifice that
it took for them to here, yes, and then to
you know, raise a family by really just any means necessary,
saving every single penny, no support system, you know, and
(10:10):
the one thing that they knew, they're one mechanism for
being able to, you know, even build a life in
Canada was academic achievement. So that was really their path,
that was the path, that was the only path, let
alone like you know, soft skills, networking, like you know,
there's too much of a language barrier, but it was
like the math and the physics and then the stem
of it that was universal, that transcended language, and so
(10:33):
no matter what, if you knew those things, you would
be okay, no matter where in the world you went.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And I think it makes a lot of sense the
way you explain it. I see it. It makes sense. It's
a hard road, but at the same time, it's like
if you do this, chances are you're going to go
where you know, you're going to advance, you go where
you need to go, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Subsequently, I think put a lot of money and time
into putting me on that path. And so when I
went to business school, when I became an accountant, all
just like and you know, they were helping me the
whole way. Yeah, and like you know, college was wasn't cheap,
and living off campus wasn't cheap.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You were dutiful Sun. I'm guessing, gotta get this, gotta
do it for a while.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
But then the but then when puberty hit, I think
it was a very I really like a like a
jarring kind of wake up call for me where I
was like, oh, I guess the best way I could
describe it is like I realized that I wasn't cool,
Like at twelve years old, You're just like, oh, like
nothing that I've built my life around is like none
of these skills are actually making me attractive in the march,
(11:37):
Like being really good at math like actually is it's a.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Negative contribute for me.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Meanwhile, everything that I wanted, you know, I'm like, Okay,
all the all the girls in class really love this
one guy. Yeah, play sports. He's got frosted tips. Yeah
it looks like a Bactree boy.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah yeah, Terribleiza. Oh yeah, I've got it all wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And so actually, like I wish I was kidding about this,
but like around the time I, you know, I was
like twelve thirteen, I really started to like Rebel, and
I think it drove my parents crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, And so the the.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Very embattled process through which I which I got that
job was like fine. They were like finally it's he's okay, yeah,
we can, we can, Thank God.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
We can.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We can relax. And then, you know, less than a
year later, like a random commercial of me selling cell
phones is on TV and they're.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Like, why are you going?
Speaker 4 (12:29):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Is that how I discovered it? Yeah, I want to
see this movie. This is very interesting, This is very funny.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
This is very funny, pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah, And again I find as you're speaking, I
find echoes of my experience as well. We're recognizing that
the things that I was into, sure, like I took
piano lessons, I studied voice, I took voice lessons. I
would practice singing in my room to a tape recorder.
It was just like and I played golf, and then
(12:59):
back then golf was not cool, and it was just
like so you could have I could check every single box. Yeah,
and I just and and finally yeah. It was the
same kind of thing. You finally you start to kind
of and I think teaching myself how to play guitar
was my effort. Oh yeah, so I learned. I taught
myself guitar, you know, how to play the guitar, obviously poorly,
but well, you know, I want to chaw. You knew
it was that part of this journey. Was that in
(13:20):
there somewhere?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. That was more of a
college thing where yeah, exactly everyone. I mean, you know,
two thousand and seven, it's like everyone was doing the
Jack Johnson and Jason Moraz, you know, the guy with
the guitar, which you know, we had. We had a
scene in Barbie that like made fun of it, and
I was just I felt so called out. They're like,
that's me. I think the line was like, I'm gonna
(13:42):
stare at you and make uncomfortable eye contact while I
play you a song for four hours. And I was like,
oh no, I've been that guy. I've been that guy.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm like, you know, okay, did you write songs? You
must have written songs for for girlfriends sort of thing?
Did you I tried?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I think I think songwriting is not my medium really.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, so one thing you can't do.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I think I love I love writing in pros. Yes,
I think I can write screenplays, songwriting. I have something
about it not there for you, it's so tight.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I have somewhere that I'll never play, that will
never see the like no, I wrote you must Oh
my god, No, you dropped it on the podcast, so
earnest and yeah, just dumb, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But and you can you hear it in your head?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I mean kind of. I remember I wrote one to
the named Jane way back when, and as it was Jane,
you know, it's all that you know and every word
you can rhyme with Jane. It was just funny, ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Can I can I actually ask you because you were
talking about that moment and like the moment where the
world discovers the thing. Yeah, was sex in the city,
the moment that the most embarrassing changed your Yeah, but
it was like that, like my life will never like
something's out of the box now.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And I can't put it. I can't play. I've had
my crew is such a weird one because I was
literally working out, you know, I knew I wanted to
do theater when I got to college, and I was
in a training program. I was being trained for theater.
I was going to New York. I was I was
making getting money together from grandparents, with five hundred bucks here,
one thousand bocks here, whatever I could do, so I
(15:11):
could go to New York, get a place and start auditioning,
because I musical theater was really my thing, you know,
and I thought, I'll do that, and then I'll also
audition for you know, different different repertory companies around the
country come to New York and auditioned actors, and then
you go live in Houston, or you go live in Cincinnati,
or you go, you know, go to Denver and Denver
Theater Center. That was what I was going to do.
(15:32):
And then I auditioned for Dune. I auditioned for Done
in Seattle and got cast and you know, met David
Lynch and started a completely different journey in front of
the camera, no idea what I was doing or what
I was in for. And so that was both the
meteoric Wow, they're this kid from nowhere, not even you know,
(15:54):
really from nowhere, and then crashed and burned and then yeah,
and then I'd know, I was like, well, we don't want,
we don't want to hire him. And then David came
back with blue velvet and we did Blue Velvet together
and then it started to kind of the ship sorted
to balance. It's a little bit, but really because of
David found me for Doomed and then I was so
(16:15):
amazingly generous to hire me again for Blue Velvet, which
he did not have to do, and then that kind
of set me on a course. Yeah, so he's been
an odd course, but I think the most amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So it's like sometimes people and extraordinary people come in
and just do they just do this Yes, they give
you a nudge or they give you like they just
do this yes, And a career is built on just
when I really think back, and maybe you feel the same,
but it's like three or four people who just poke
you and prod you and say yes when everyone else
(16:48):
says now. And then it's like twenty years later, you're like, oh,
when I break it down, it's like I can count
on my hand the number of people who have like
just completely changed the course.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Of mind yes, yes, and and had such not only
change of course, had an influence on it. Yeah. I
mean I pointed David, of course, but there have been
a few. And I think you bring up Sex in
the City, and I think that was one. Twin Peaks
had come and done his thing, and Twin Peaks again
where the Twin Peaks had that meteoric rise, it was everywhere.
And then it kind of the second season sort of
fell off and fell away. So again there was this
kind of give and then take and and so I
(17:22):
was like, you know, kind of tumbling a little bit
in the ocean, a little like I don't know quite
you know, where I am what's going on? And then
and Sex and the City kind of started something. And
again a character, I seem to play characters that have
all sorts of issues, and I'm kind of like, I
had a lot of issues, but I'm very rich. Yes
he is got a really nice apartment, unusual relationship with
(17:44):
his mother, but apart from that, you know, you gotta
go I'm like, no, I'm just the regular guy. What
the hell you know? But you're like, well, I'm an actor,
so I get to go on this interesting journey and
discover all these different quirks about this particular character. And
that part's been fun. Yeah, So I've enjoyed that. Yeah, yeah,
what are you right? I think a little nudge here, a
little mutch there. Yeah, you know, but for opportunities, chances, choices,
(18:09):
you know, who knows, who knows. So it's a very
the journey is very interesting. You work in Chung Chuan
Ung Chi yung Chi. It's like a dream role for me.
I gave that that universe and even though I've sort
(18:30):
of skidded around a little bit with Agents of Shield
to work in the Marvel film, I mean it's kind
of the top of the mountain. Yeah, I mean, because
I heard that you had maybe just kind of reached
out and said, hey guys, I'm here, right, you know, yeah,
what was that?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
That gets a lot? Yeah, I'm so curious about I mean,
I did I sent out this this tweet when you're
like unemployed and at home, you just like you tweet,
that's what you did, you know. So twenty eighteen was
this like big kind of watershed moment. I feel like
for everyone and for everyone that wasn't white in Hollywood.
Just for lack of a better way of putting it,
but it was like, you know, crazy rich Asians you know,
(19:07):
came out, Black panther came out and then you know,
this this little tiny movie called Searching came out starring
John Choen, and it was like three box office successes
at wildly different price points. So you had like a
nine hundred thousand dollars kind of like pseudo indie that
gross seventy five million, and then you had this like
forty five fifty million dollar Crazy Rich Asians which did
(19:30):
two fifty which was greaty and then and you know,
obviously Black Panther made a billion, and so it was
just like the world. I mean, as I'm saying, I'm
feeling sad because this is not the world that we
live in now, but like everything, and it was such
a celebration of diversity, and and it was on the
heels of that that Marvel greenlit a chunk Chi movie.
I did send Yeah, I sent out a tweet like, hey,
(19:51):
are we you know we're doing this? We're doing this
or what?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Love?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I don't think anyone ever read it, but I think
it would. Yeah, it spoke to I was like, oh, no,
that's my dream role. I'm never going to get it.
There'sn't a chance in hell, but that's my dream, right. Yeah,
you know, I refused to kind of have any sort
of hope that it was going to happen for me.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
What was your process in how did you? I mean,
was it you know, just kind of banging at the door.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean I had a manager at the time who
was speaking to casting, and maybe the talent pool for
Asian actors just wasn't It's not like insane, you know,
Tom Holland I think very famously had to like audition
against something. This is not the right number, but like
twelve thousand potential Spider Man, right, like I think maybe
(20:37):
I had one one hundred and fifty, which is not
a small number, but it's still like, you know, it's
it's significant. March or April I sent in, you know,
my first tape, which was scenes from Goodwill hunting because
they never shared their actual script, right, And then in
June July I met the director and then a few
(20:58):
weeks later I screen tested, and then two days after
that I got the job. And yeah, it was I
mean to talk about like a kid from Toronto. Yeah, tense,
like the whole like first place, you know, Winner Takes All.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And you had but you've been into business enough to
know what that meant. And then in some ways when
I auditioned for Doune. I didn't really have a concept
of what we were talking about and the scope and
the scale. I just was like, Oh, this is an audition.
I'm an actress. Is a job. I'll go do this job,
you know. Just yea naivete, you know what I mean? Yeah,
but having but being kind of knowing how this is
(21:30):
going to change. It's a weird thing, right. It's like
I always feel like I don't want to look straight
at it. I just want to it's just over here.
I just want to It's in my periphery and if
I look at it, it's going to disappear totally. That's
the way I feel about stuff like that. Yeah, And
the experience was awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
It was I mean of shooting it was.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It was.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's the most incredible experience of my of my life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We shot it in Sydney, Australia, and I'll never have
that feeling again of just coming to work every day
and like we had such a special bond. I feel
like all of us in the cast because we all
knew how important it was.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Going to be.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You know, yeah, we thought it We thought it would
make a billion dollars but then you know, the like
the variants hit and then we were you know, we
opened at a time where like you couldn't even sit
next to someone at the at the movie theater, I
feel like, and a lot of parts of the world.
But still we managed to scrap together like four hundred
and four and fifty million.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That's amazing. It's not bad, that's amazing. I love it.
I really yeah. I was just like going that. I mean,
it's weird because I studied when I was growing up,
another nerdy thing I did. I used to take, I took,
I studied karate, so I studied a Korean form show
a con Yeah. It's so funny because I'm like, yeah,
(22:42):
I share, I share this in a completely different environment,
you know. So parents are on board, everybody's everybody's good now,
they're like, wow, thankfully.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I feel like my parents and I sorted out a
lot of our issues before the big moment, because I
feel like there would always be a part of me
that would be like a little bit like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
now you're on board.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah yeah, right, really you didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You didn't, yeh exactly exactly. But no, they, to their credit,
I think somewhere in the struggle of it all, they
started to really understand and were very begrudging became very
begrudgingly supportive. And so when shann Shi happened, it was
a really great celebratory moment for all of us, thank goodness.
And they were, you know, one of the first people
that I called. And I think a lot of immigrant
(23:25):
parents don't retire or retire late out of just this
fear and anxiety of not being able to support their
kids and be there for their kids, because you know,
it really comes down to support system, right Like, if
you immigrate to a new country, you don't know anybody
who don't speak the language, you have no support system,
you got no safety net. And so I feel like
they that kind of anxiety dominates your existence. And so
(23:46):
I think seeing watching my dad retire he retired during
the pandemic, and then my mom shortly shortly after, seeing
them just like get to travel the world, live life
on their own terms finally and not feel this constant
burden to like support or provide or sacrifice, you know,
has been has been a great, a great joy.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, me very satisfying.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
When I'm stuck in a when we're you know, in
the like Pitch Dark soundstage, seven thirty in the morning,
and I look at my parents and they're doing the
Turtle mont Blanc in France. I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
maybe I'll retire.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah. And do they come to the side, do they
do they come and visit? Do they they?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
They come to a few there's they're really really shy
about it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, said is also just I mean, yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot. At the first hour, you're like, okay, yeah, yeah,
I'm good, I'm done here.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, on this, on this last show that I did,
they they came a few times and I timed it
around lunch so there wouldn't be too much like idle
time and waiting time. But yeah, get them to get
them to a buffet though, and they'll yeah that's very quick.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah exactly. I love that. There's this one you're talking about.
It is that the it's it's called cock Yeah, yeah,
tell me about that. Is this is going to drop soon? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, it comes out. I mean I don't know when
this this will air, but it comes out December twenty
seventh on Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Very cool. And you you're the star, you're the lead, yeah,
and EP on it and an EP yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
You've had that credit before. I'm thinking not.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Meaningfully, not meaningful sometimes. I think that that title gets
thrown around a lot in our industry, and this was
the first time that I feel like it really meant something,
meant something to me, it meant something to you know,
the showrunners and the co creators and producers and so yeah,
it was this amazing process where I think because being
(25:43):
an actor on stage it's such a.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Different feeling than being an actor in film.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
There's a lot more ownership on the stage, control the
ey of the audience on stage truly. In film it's
a director's medium's an editors medium. So you're you're a
paint maybe you're a paint brush at best. Yeah, yes,
you know. And then and then they go and they
assemble every thing and there's a final product that comes out.
But like by then you're so far removed from that process.
As a producer, I mean, it was it was just
(26:07):
really awesome getting to tell the story, you know, getting
to be in the writer's room, for example, and to
listen to people's ideas and to give ideas and then
to be on set and to you know, it's almost
like worry about things that were not just my character,
you know, and just you know, and and and that
almost in a kind of roundabout way, helped me get
into character because then I would know why that was there,
(26:30):
and I would know why that screen was there. And
so often I feel like, especially on these like you know,
on these shows, that there's a lot of sets. You know,
you come and you're like, great, this looks awesome, and
now you're shooting, and it's like you don't have time
to really like feel where you are and like ground
yourself being an actor in TV, and it's just it
can be such a rushed experience, you know, where.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As you said, it's like you're sort of in your
own lane. I don't know if that's exactly with your
own little pod as an actor. And I agree with
you in terms of having a larger influence, because it
does demand that you have to done now. You have
to understand kind of this every every character story. And
I think it's helpful because then you say, okay, this
is this is how I fit into this, yes, And
(27:13):
then these characters need they're going to need things that
I hadn't really thought about, and so you sort of
feed that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It informs the choices that you make yes to serve that,
and hopefully makes the story better because of it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And I think that type of involvement is Yeah, it's
a step beyond just coming in. I have my lines, great.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, And and and of course, like our timelines are
constantly being constricted, you know, they're like, okay, like when
was the last I can't remember when I last had
a table read a table read, or like a rehearsal
for something on screen. It's just like, no, you just
show up and yeah, then you do it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, well good, that's I'm excited. This is going to
be good. It's eight episodes.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, it's eight episodes. You know, it's like paranoid spy thriller.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, I know a little bit of what it is.
It's sound. It's a very interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, thank you, Yes, yeah, So I play this X
Special Forces Analysts. His name is Alexander Hale. He works
for this kind of like CIA esque organization called the Orphanage.
And the Orphanage is important because it houses a lot
of national secrets. They monitor all of the other intelligence agencies,
the FBI, the NSA, the you know, the CIA, and
(28:21):
they kind of serve as an internal affairs and they
also kind of oversee intelligence.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Operations in the US. And it's fictional.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It doesn't actually right right, right, but it's cool, and
we like we kind of like the idea that there
was like kind of a benevolent deep state. It was
like kind of discomforting thought for I think Thomas and
Jen the showrunners, and for me just living in kind
of like a politically messy, messy time knowing I'm like, oh, yeah,
it'd be nice if there was like a shadowy group
of people who actually like really cared and had people's
(28:50):
best interests.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Be nice.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So Alexander works for this for this agency, is an analyst, and.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I like that throw back. You've got some history, you
can analyst countant.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, a little bit slight differences in our pilot, Alexander's
been experiencing migraines for a while and he comes upon
this like experimental technology that basically hacks the It's a
nanotechnology that hacks eyes and ears and so people can
unwittingly become moles. And he realizes that he's been hacked
(29:21):
and then he's a mole and that's what he's feeling,
is yeah, and so it sets into you know, sets
into play this like big kind of Truman Show esque
game that he starts to play with his enemy and
with his end with the Orphanage, where you know, he
realizes he's been hacked, but he doesn't want to just
the easiest thing to do would be to say, hey,
I've been hacked.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
But you know, he realizes he's been hacked, and he
realizes that having a two way link actually can benefit
them because they can start feeding the enemy false information.
And so he figures out a way to communicate that
to the Orphanage without actually communicating it right, And so
the show is very much about like monitoring, you know,
it's like about these micro expressions and about what he
(30:01):
does with his hands while he's looking you know, this way,
and somehow let the Orphanage know what's going on, and
then they kind of start to build this false world
around him where that he has to navigate and kind
of anticipate what they want him to do.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Incredibly complex.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, it's yeah, as I'm explaining it, I'm like, oh boy, yeah, no,
but I'm but as you're talking about it, I'm thinking myself, Yes,
that is like just.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
A little bit of the research that we did. So
it feels like it's in your wheelhouse, very much in
your wheelhouse, just because there are so many things. Just
just watching some of your social Yeah, I think it
was coming on the was it the Jennifer Hudson Show,
and there's they kind of carry you through the oh
the story tunnel. Yes, I hadn't seen before, and I
was like, oh, and you have to dance your way
(30:49):
through and suddenly you're whipping out all the stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. College, yes,
And I'm like I'm always looking first, like you learn
certain skills like I went to school for three years
and training, we learned to do things. We learn't juggling,
We learn all sorts of different things, always looking like
hey I know how to do that? Yeah, how can
we integrate that? And it was so like unexpected and
(31:12):
just like whoa, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I was get so embarrassed when people actually watch I
don't know, it's some you know, because it's like all
of this happens on my phone. I'm like, oh, I
see it, and I'm like, oh, that's fine. And then
when someone actually references I get so embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, I just stuck out to me because I was like,
that was unexpected and very cool. Yeah, and like you
weren't just kind of faking it. I dance around the
spirit tunnel to get Yeah, I would be it would
be tough, but it looks like it's a very cool
idea because they that's they.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Bring you into the They bring you and then and
the crew there are so wonderful and they and they
make a custom song for you. Yeah yeah right, yeah,
they we chanting my name and I think they did
it to Barbie, like I'm a Barbie girl. Oh yeah,
so it's like I'm in Seaman's world. I sent something.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, it was cool.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah yeah, it was really really really sweet. Really make
you feel special.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
God, I love that you bring up Barbie. I was
just I mean, I so enjoy Greta is such an
amazing director. I mean, I don't know her. I've never
worked with her as an actor, but I just love
what she does. And when I see her speak, I'm like,
she is so smart, she's so interesting. She's has a
very very specific vision and she seems to really I mean,
she loves the creative dynamics, balancing back and forth. Yea energy. Yeah, yeah,
(32:26):
your experience on that was was was it awesome? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And she and really in large part because of her Yeah,
she she really Yes, she does have a very specific
idea of what she wants, but also what she wants
is something that's like so malleable and so joyous when
she makes discoveries. It's not about the ego of being
right as it is a lot of you know, directors
(32:49):
that I maybe worked with. It's about we're here, let's
find something. This is what I think. What do you think? Yeah,
and then when something happens, it's like the way that
there's this like really viral clip of I think I
think it's Certin and Timothy, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But where she's like kiss her you know, do you
guys know this clip where.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Greta is standing behind the monitor and she's watching these
two actors and they're frolicking and she's just laughing like
she's having the best time. Yeah, And that was Yeah,
that's that's her on I think on everything that she does.
It was her on Barbie and it's just we worked
together really to give Mike Ken his very specific identity,
you know, as it pertains to Ryan's ken, this idea
(33:29):
of like being weirdly intimidating or something because he could backflip.
That's what we like. Yes, that's what we landed on.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
David was very much like that joyful behind the monitor
watching and even when we didn't have a dune in
Blue belve we didn't have monitors, he was right there
by the camera and and just very wrapped, you know,
and also love just like wanted so much kind of
one to be there. You know, there's like an umbilical
(33:57):
cord almost, you feel. And certainly when we did Twin Peas,
it was a lot of like he would he actually
created a character for himself so he could come into
the world of twin people, which I loved, you know
what I mean. But I feel like that with Greta
there's definitely that really connection, yeah, which is really magical. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I love a director that might ruin a take because
they're laughing so bad, you know, it's like that's the
best reason.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, I agree with you. Yeah, And I have worked
with some directors that are just basically they're just intimidating
that they come out from behind the curtain and you're like, Okay,
what which which personality am I going to get? So
is it is it the calm kind of fund or
is it the one? Don't you ever you know, Yeah, yeah,
I hear if you had experiences like that. But it's
like I've.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Never, thankfully i've never been yelled at, but I've definitely
been like, very dryly like, yeah, if you could, if
you could just do what's written, that would be Oh god,
that would be great.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And it just it just it just kills your spirit.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mean, it's tough because you want. I mean, yeah,
of course, it's a you know, it's a professional environment,
so it's not all about fun and games. It's not
about having the best time. But I do think that
we tend to do our best work as creatives when
we feel free.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We're going to take a break and we'll come back.
We're going to do this game. It's called Simu and
His Superhero Sidekicks. Okay, great, so this is this is exciting,
this is great. We're here. I have a cape. You
have a cape and a mask, and yeah, I don't
recognize you. I don't even know it's you. Maybe you
(35:29):
knew this.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I was a birthday party like superhero oh for some time,
no kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
During my struggle years.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So this is really like, it's really taken me back in.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
A good way. Yeah, you're not breaking in a sweat, You're
not breaking Yeah. No, kids are not physically assaulting me.
So it's a big win when when yes for those
for those unlucky for you who are only listening. So
we are dressed in our superhero costumes. We're both wearing masks,
very Adam West, very Adam West, and a very cape
as well. Batman and Rob is Batman and Robin all
the way. There's no tights, no not so use your imagination.
(36:03):
But yeah, I love this.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I love the like bright and shiny superhero era campy.
You know, I just feel like the color pallet just
keeps getting darker and grittier.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, and darker. Let's go back to the and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, everything's just like black now black and dark and
no capes.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You know, no caps. This is a terrible thing. I'm
a big fan of capes, I said.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Mine says, bruh, I'm a superhero.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
And mun says I'm the sidekick. So I'm Robbin to
your Batman.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
It's not true. I feel like, I'm your sidekick.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Okay, the names, and we're gonna choose our names. But
first of all, we're gonna remind us. So we're gonna
do some we're gonna we're doing some superhero readings and stuff.
We're gonna find our superhero names. So yeah, we have
this special chart here. Okay, got it. It's gonna give
us the first letter of your first name and the
first letter of your last name. We'll give you your
superhero name. Okay, got okay, So let's start. Kyle McLoughlin.
(36:57):
K So my first my superhero name is is Okay, blue?
And where's the M.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You are wearing Blue Talent, like the Blue Talent, Blue
Talent first letter okay, S C S and L the
Iron Rock.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I don't know. I like that's a good one, supid.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think Blue the Iron Rock and the Yeah and
the Iron Rock and his trusty sidekick Blue Talent, the
Blue Talent.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
These are guys. Yeah, they're they're in Trouble's Superhero Trouble.
You're an acting coach, you love to do yes, and
you're going to be teaching Kyle how to be a superhero.
Yeah okay, yeah, these are lines for my projects. So
the first one is we interface Flintstone. We conceptualize tend
to rise, prioritize. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, no, that was really great. That was a really
great initial delivery.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, it's not a bad first draft. That's good.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's good good. I've been doing this for forty years,
so you know, but.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I can I feel like you came at it from
like a really analytical place. A superhero's greatest quality is
actually their ability to put the everyday man at ease.
So rather than saying something from an analytical perspective of like,
you know, this is what we do, it's like, uh,
comfort me with it, comfort me, put me at ease
(38:13):
with the just the authority and the and the certainty
of your of your voice.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, ok, let's right, let's try. Yeah, we interface Flintstone.
We conceptualize tender.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Oh okay, prior Oh there's like a flirtatious quality.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yes, yes, yeah, I'm trying to connect, trying to connect ideas.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Your Okay, your your my first line, which is your
your line? I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer.
My first guest would be Doune.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yes, that like in a marvel.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Way, a marvely way.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I feel like, I feel like, again, we've just gone
to such a minimalistic place. I kind of want to
do it the like Adam west Well, which also is
like it's it's more I would say, like more presentational, right,
And it's more like it's it's like you're performing it
on a stage, because you know, superheroes always have audiences,
so it's like it comes from a place of I
(39:19):
must not fear. Fear is the mind killer.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
That's confident, very, you know. I like that we're all
about our secret identity. With the mask on, I feel
like liberating.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Okay, so this is it.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I have been her dentist for years, but last week
I was looking into her mouth and decided to stick
my tongue in it. I remember this line, reading it
and going I remember doing this line and going, this
is the strangest line. I have been her dentist for years,
but last week I was looking into her mouth and
(39:56):
decided to stick my tongue in it, really trying to
channel Chris Hamsworth.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
But I don't know if I was able to do it,
because you got to have a bit of the alsie
Oh no, I've been a dentist for years. Last week lost,
I was looking into her mouth and decided to stick
my tongue at it.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You're telling me something.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
I find if I'm reading reading the script right, and
you read a line and it's something triggers something in me,
and I suddenly go, oh my god, that's Chris Walker. Yeah.
The rhythm of the line goes boom right into the
back of my head. Oh oh, I've been a dentist
for years. Yeah, last week, Yeah, you know what I mean. Okay,
(40:47):
here we go.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, it feels like someone's taking a crowbar to my heart.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
I mean, obviously this person's talking about heartbreak, but maybe
in the superhero context it's an actual crow bar.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I heart love this choice with it.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yes, yes, it feels like someone's taking a crow bart
to my heart.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Oh, let me get let me remove that rob you like.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Someone's taking a crowbar to my heart.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
That was genius. Who are you? I'm right here, I'm
right here. Yeah, oh my god. That was funny. But
a superhero is. Yeah. I think it's part of the
part of the fun of Marvel is the fun that
they have and the sort of the ad lib kind
(41:40):
of nature of it. So when you're in your character
like that, you you then you can sort of, you know,
move around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Charlotte, you're making a scene, not like your spine. Yeah,
you know, I love that, perfect feel. Trey is from
a very well to do family. He's I think he
would never be caught slouching the way that I Slauch.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Howards superhero person, excellent posture. Come now, shot it. You're
making a scene.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
I love I love I saw it. I saw it
that you guys are very nice. No, I love because
they're so they're superhuman. It's fun when you make them human,
right and kind of have those moments.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
So yes, so we look forward. That's on the twenty seventh, right,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, yeah, really excited about it, you know, for the
first time being an executive producer, which we talked about,
which is really really exciting. And yeah, just put put
a lot of myself into into it, and very grateful
to ever have an opportunity to be number one on
the call sheet. It's not you know, it doesn't happen
every day, and now I don't ever take it for granted.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's very special and I would imagine this number one.
There's a responsibility of kind of setting setting the tone, yeah,
which you which you understand completely.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, I try to. I try to just you know,
you know, I thrive in states of play. I think
a lot of us do, and so I think just
keeping that sense alive as much as you can. Obviously,
you know, it's it's a job, and their economic constraints
and and things that you have to do, and it's
not always fun every single day every day. But yeah,
if if you're able to kind of instill just a
(43:22):
little bit of lightness, I feel like that's.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, I agree with go along agree, that's that's a
perfect thing. All right. That's all the time we have today.
There's me there's more time in the day. But we're
we've I got to We've gotta go, we gotta go,
we got we have got to rescue some people. You're ready,
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, Iron Rock there literally.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
What are we even doing? Is a production of iHeartMedia
and the Elvis Duran podcast network, hosted by me Kyle
McLachlin and created and produced by Full Picture Productionists, featuring
New Yata and artwork by Danica Robinson. For more information
about the podcast. Please visit our Instagram and TikTok at
(44:08):
wawed with Kyle. Please rate, review, and subscribe to What
Are We Even Doing on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere
you get your podcasts. Exclamation points
What are we even do? What are we even doing?
Welcome to what are we even doing? I'm Kyle McLachlin,
your host for the Evening. We don't even know it's evening,
but I'm your host where we sit down with creatives
and we talk about their journey, figure out what makes
them tick. We're going to get weird together in a
(00:22):
good way. And today, very excited an actor in one
of my favorite movies, Shaun Chi Did I pronounce it
all right? Yeah? And Legend of the Ten Ten Rings, okay,
one of my favorites. Yeah, but also Barbie thank you, yes, indeed, musician, author,
former stock image model. We can get into that real deeply, seamoodly.
(00:44):
It's so nice to have you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Thank you here much for having me here, Kyle. I
prefer the term stock photo legend. That's what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I can understand what that would be.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Maybe the most probably the best successful stock photo model
of all time. I say it, unless I'm mistaken, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I would say you are. Can you very few things
I can brag? Could you tell me about your name? First?
Lou Liu? Yeah, Lou my Chinese.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was born in China, so my name is my
name is Liu Smu, and my parents very rightly figured
out that no one would would be able to pronounce
that here me included. But they also were They also didn't,
you know, a lot of immigrant families would give their
would give their kids, specifically from from China, would give
their kids an English name, and so I could have
been like a Simon Liu or a Steve Liu, but
(01:29):
they didn't. They held out, and so I was always Simu,
and it was it was kind of the bane of
my existence for a really long time, because I think
when you're young, you just like, at least in the nineties,
it was like not cool to be different.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Yes, and I think that's pretty true when I was
going in the sixties. Yeah, not cool. Kyle was challenging.
Really oh yeah, oh I would have given anything moved
in Kyle.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh you know now you say and then and then
you know, once you join the Screen Actors Guild, you're like, oh,
this is kind of cool you one and all. It's
nice to be yeah. Yeah, when you're on air, yeah,
you modify anything.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah. I've definitely grown to really love my name. Yeah. Yeah,
that's good. It's cool, thank you. Yeah, it's very cool.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I still do have to spell it out every time
I'm ordering at Starbucks, though, I'm always like, like I am,
or sometimes I don't even say my name, just put
do you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Ever put in a fake? I? Sometimes I just say
it's Bill. So I start every interview with a question
of just about was there a moment for you, kind
of a flash of or inspiration where you this is
what I either want to do or this is what
I should be doing. Yeah, started it, you know, because
I know you had a different You've had a different trajectory.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, not a not a straight line by
any means. Yeah, it was probably like when I first
came to Canada, when we first immigrated, and like I
didn't speak any English and it was four and a
half four and a half five, and among amongst other things,
you know, watching like Old Spielberg movies and like Star
Wars really like formed the basis of my English language, right,
(03:01):
So I really kind of was exposed to movies and
those types of movies from a really young age and
I think that really caught me and had a profound
impact on me. But that being said, I think when
when it came time to decide what to.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Do with my career.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
It was like we were a family in you know, Toronto, Canada.
We didn't have any connections to the entertainment industry. It
was just like so kind of unheard of. I never
really gave myself permission to pursue it. So the moment
of inspiration that came in my in my actual career
was I think answering a Craigslist ad to be an
extra on a Geermo del Toro movie that was shooting
(03:36):
in Toronto. And I was working on Bay Street, which
is kind of like our Wall Street as an accountant
at the time, and so I skipped work to do it.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I got caught, I got fired, but it was yeah,
because no one knows the actual story. They know you
were fired, but well it was because you were pursuing.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah, it's all it's all connect Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay,
Now I was. I was sitting at the you know,
it was like sitting in the que I don't even
think we had cubicles, but as a as a first
year account and I was I was just freaking terrible
at it, you know, and I hated my life every day.
It just wasn't wasn't the right situation for me, and
I would I would go on Craigslist because I would daydream,
and this one one day, I just you know, it
(04:12):
was like it it was like that ad was tailor
made for me. It was like if you believe in
whatever higher power of the universe, just like in that moment,
they were like looking for Asian extras age twenty to
forty five.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
You're like, I was twenty two.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
I was like, this is my I'm going to be
a star.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
You name have to be Simu. Yeah, you know, like exactly, exactly, Yes,
that's my name. It's perfect for me. And I made
eleven dollars an hour. You know, you made more than
me my first thing. Really, we have a very interesting,
strangely similar story really where you said something earlier, you
said I didn't give myself permission. Yeah, which was my
case as well. It's something I grew up. You know.
(04:49):
I did plays in high school and in college and
loved it, loved it and felt so comfortable at home.
But it's like, but I can't do this, this is
not you know, I can't make a living at this. Yeah,
and my parents as well. No connection to the business. Yeah,
but I just you know, it was one of those
things where I finally just gave up and said, it's
really the only thing I'm good at. I guess it.
We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, it's so funny that you the way that you
phrase it is that you gave up. It's almost like
a surrender to the inevitable right of like always knowing
that this this there's this like thing that's building inside you,
and you're like, finally just surrender to it.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So you had this experience. Yeah, it cost me my job.
It cost you your job, Like your parents are like,
what the hell? Yeah, I actually didn't tell them for
very long. Good for you, that's for a very long time.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So I got home that day kind of unemployed, with
you know, box of my stuff, and I was like, Jesus,
what am I gonna do?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
But I had an audition the next day.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Weirdly, I had gotten myself into this like student film
of something, and I thought, well, let me just go
to this audition and see what happens. And I booked
that part and that student film is out there somewhere,
which I deeply regret.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
But you find that I have a I have a
cracked team. Here, get it right now, see if we
can do it.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, I think it was like I think it was
like racially offensive. We don't have to we don't have
to pursue that angle. But I will say, you know,
it's there's no regrets. I think you do what you
have to do in the beginning, and yeah, and the
way before I really understood what I was even doing. Yeah,
but yeah, I just kind of took that as a
sign from the universe to kind of just put one
foot in front of the other just to see. And
(06:25):
I didn't really have an end goal or a plan.
Maybe you did or maybe you didn't, but it was
just like, let's just do what. Let's just get the
next one. Yeah, you know, let's just get the next one.
Let's just get on a on a set, and then
we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Sometimes it was as an extra. Sometimes it was unpaid.
Sometimes it was ten bucks wich.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You did what I think is the most important thing
for young actors, which is just work somehow some way,
student film friends getting together. I mean, anything you can
do to just have practice and skill and feel more
comfortable and get a sense of what it is. I
think that is so incredibly important you were doing intuitively.
I mean, I know you you have a lot of skills,
(07:04):
and I'm wondering did those skills come when when always
were you always miser when you were you always you know,
did you always enjoy because you move really really well,
And I'm wondering was dance part of it or did
you train in any way? What was your sort of
when you were just a kid, maybe not focused necessarily
on academics. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that when
(07:25):
your parents loved that, but yeah, I am really were
so happy, so supportive.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, it was really I think for the for the
first few years of my life, like at once I
hit puberty, I was really obsessed with the with this
idea of like being a pop star. Actually that's what
I wanted, right, Okay. Girl that I had a crush
on in fifth grade.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Highly influential period of time.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Jacqueline Dobson. Yeah, she she was a big and sink fan.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Okay, there you go.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
And it's you know, it's like it's it's easy to
see why, right, they're really tight ship. You know, great dancers, yes,
great singers, and so with that all that totally totally
and so without having any again, any connections or any
training whatsoever, started like singing in the shower really just
like by repetition because I couldn't admit it to my parents,
(08:09):
you know, I couldn't really admit it to anyone. But
I was just like, wouldn't it be cool.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
If I and you tell this a little secret? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And then and then I would like go to these
school dances and and and then I you know, I
would like do dance my little heart out. And then
when I got to college, randomly I joined the like
hip hop dance club and then made the competitive dance team.
So that was like my first.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Hip hop dancer. You're like, I think by bye bye
still skills.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Like a like a little bit in there, a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, that's such a great I mean you were training,
you didn't, I mean for something, you know, for something else.
It's like I have a skill set that I'm going
to use and I've gotten really good at Yeah, and
it is going to I'm going to use it, you
know what I mean somewhere even though you didn't know
how you were going to use it.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Sure, sure, yeah that is It is crazy how I'm
in my parents side all the time too, because I
you know, I was trying to hide it from them,
but they knew, you know, they would see me like, yeah,
bouncing around.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Did they encourage discouraged very much? Discourage all right, actively discouraged. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I don't want to throw them under the bus or anything.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
No, that's I think that you know, parents, everyone they
come to they have to come to things in their
own time, like my parents were. My mom was actually
supportive because she was kind of she was in the arts.
And then my dad was sort of some disdain but
also like he was also trying to be helpful and
supportive because of his whole experience when he was younger.
He had a whole thing where his dad made him,
you know, go through a certain career which he hated
(09:33):
and all that kind Yeah, he follow that track. Yeah,
and he was like, I'm not going to do that.
But at the same time, he was like, you know,
couldn't he have chosen something? Yeah that I can at
least understand. And then of course, as you may be
the same for you you find success and they're suddenly
like they're very supportive and very on board and very
happy for you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, yeah, there's yeah, definitely a version of that. I
mean for my parents who were both like electrical engineers
and both Chinese, just the amount of like sacrifice that
it took for them to here, yes, and then to
you know, raise a family by really just any means necessary,
saving every single penny, no support system, you know, and
(10:10):
the one thing that they knew, they're one mechanism for
being able to, you know, even build a life in
Canada was academic achievement. So that was really their path,
that was the path, that was the only path, let
alone like you know, soft skills, networking, like you know,
there's too much of a language barrier, but it was
like the math and the physics and then the stem
of it that was universal, that transcended language, and so
(10:33):
no matter what, if you knew those things, you would
be okay, no matter where in the world you went.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
And I think it makes a lot of sense the
way you explain it. I see it. It makes sense. It's
a hard road, but at the same time, it's like
if you do this, chances are you're going to go
where you know, you're going to advance, you go where
you need to go, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Subsequently, I think put a lot of money and time
into putting me on that path. And so when I
went to business school, when I became an accountant, all
just like and you know, they were helping me the
whole way. Yeah, and like you know, college was wasn't cheap,
and living off campus wasn't cheap.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You were dutiful Sun. I'm guessing, gotta get this, gotta
do it for a while.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
But then the but then when puberty hit, I think
it was a very I really like a like a
jarring kind of wake up call for me where I
was like, oh, I guess the best way I could
describe it is like I realized that I wasn't cool,
Like at twelve years old, You're just like, oh, like
nothing that I've built my life around is like none
of these skills are actually making me attractive in the march,
(11:37):
Like being really good at math like actually is it's a.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Negative contribute for me.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Meanwhile, everything that I wanted, you know, I'm like, Okay,
all the all the girls in class really love this
one guy. Yeah, play sports. He's got frosted tips. Yeah
it looks like a Bactree boy.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah yeah, Terribleiza. Oh yeah, I've got it all wrong.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
And so actually, like I wish I was kidding about this,
but like around the time I, you know, I was
like twelve thirteen, I really started to like Rebel, and
I think it drove my parents crazy.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, And so the the.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Very embattled process through which I which I got that
job was like fine. They were like finally it's he's okay, yeah,
we can, we can, Thank God.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
We can.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
We can relax. And then, you know, less than a
year later, like a random commercial of me selling cell
phones is on TV and they're.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Like, why are you going?
Speaker 4 (12:29):
No?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Is that how I discovered it? Yeah, I want to
see this movie. This is very interesting, This is very funny.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
This is very funny, pretty wild.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah. Yeah, And again I find as you're speaking, I
find echoes of my experience as well. We're recognizing that
the things that I was into, sure, like I took
piano lessons, I studied voice, I took voice lessons. I
would practice singing in my room to a tape recorder.
It was just like and I played golf, and then
(12:59):
back then golf was not cool, and it was just
like so you could have I could check every single box. Yeah,
and I just and and finally yeah. It was the
same kind of thing. You finally you start to kind
of and I think teaching myself how to play guitar
was my effort. Oh yeah, so I learned. I taught
myself guitar, you know, how to play the guitar, obviously poorly,
but well, you know, I want to chaw. You knew
it was that part of this journey. Was that in
(13:20):
there somewhere?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Oh yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely. That was more of a
college thing where yeah, exactly everyone. I mean, you know,
two thousand and seven, it's like everyone was doing the
Jack Johnson and Jason Moraz, you know, the guy with
the guitar, which you know, we had. We had a
scene in Barbie that like made fun of it, and
I was just I felt so called out. They're like,
that's me. I think the line was like, I'm gonna
(13:42):
stare at you and make uncomfortable eye contact while I
play you a song for four hours. And I was like,
oh no, I've been that guy. I've been that guy.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I'm like, you know, okay, did you write songs? You
must have written songs for for girlfriends sort of thing?
Did you I tried?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I think I think songwriting is not my medium really.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, so one thing you can't do.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I think I love I love writing in pros. Yes,
I think I can write screenplays, songwriting. I have something
about it not there for you, it's so tight.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I have somewhere that I'll never play, that will
never see the like no, I wrote you must Oh
my god, No, you dropped it on the podcast, so
earnest and yeah, just dumb, you know.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
But and you can you hear it in your head?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
I mean kind of. I remember I wrote one to
the named Jane way back when, and as it was Jane,
you know, it's all that you know and every word
you can rhyme with Jane. It was just funny, ludicrous.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Can I can I actually ask you because you were
talking about that moment and like the moment where the
world discovers the thing. Yeah, was sex in the city,
the moment that the most embarrassing changed your Yeah, but
it was like that, like my life will never like
something's out of the box now.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And I can't put it. I can't play. I've had
my crew is such a weird one because I was
literally working out, you know, I knew I wanted to
do theater when I got to college, and I was
in a training program. I was being trained for theater.
I was going to New York. I was I was
making getting money together from grandparents, with five hundred bucks here,
one thousand bocks here, whatever I could do, so I
(15:11):
could go to New York, get a place and start auditioning,
because I musical theater was really my thing, you know,
and I thought, I'll do that, and then I'll also
audition for you know, different different repertory companies around the
country come to New York and auditioned actors, and then
you go live in Houston, or you go live in Cincinnati,
or you go, you know, go to Denver and Denver
Theater Center. That was what I was going to do.
(15:32):
And then I auditioned for Dune. I auditioned for Done
in Seattle and got cast and you know, met David
Lynch and started a completely different journey in front of
the camera, no idea what I was doing or what
I was in for. And so that was both the
meteoric Wow, they're this kid from nowhere, not even you know,
(15:54):
really from nowhere, and then crashed and burned and then yeah,
and then I'd know, I was like, well, we don't want,
we don't want to hire him. And then David came
back with blue velvet and we did Blue Velvet together
and then it started to kind of the ship sorted
to balance. It's a little bit, but really because of
David found me for Doomed and then I was so
(16:15):
amazingly generous to hire me again for Blue Velvet, which
he did not have to do, and then that kind
of set me on a course. Yeah, so he's been
an odd course, but I think the most amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
So it's like sometimes people and extraordinary people come in
and just do they just do this Yes, they give
you a nudge or they give you like they just
do this yes, And a career is built on just
when I really think back, and maybe you feel the same,
but it's like three or four people who just poke
you and prod you and say yes when everyone else
(16:48):
says now. And then it's like twenty years later, you're like, oh,
when I break it down, it's like I can count
on my hand the number of people who have like
just completely changed the course.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Of mind yes, yes, and and had such not only
change of course, had an influence on it. Yeah. I
mean I pointed David, of course, but there have been
a few. And I think you bring up Sex in
the City, and I think that was one. Twin Peaks
had come and done his thing, and Twin Peaks again
where the Twin Peaks had that meteoric rise, it was everywhere.
And then it kind of the second season sort of
fell off and fell away. So again there was this
kind of give and then take and and so I
(17:22):
was like, you know, kind of tumbling a little bit
in the ocean, a little like I don't know quite
you know, where I am what's going on? And then
and Sex and the City kind of started something. And
again a character, I seem to play characters that have
all sorts of issues, and I'm kind of like, I
had a lot of issues, but I'm very rich. Yes
he is got a really nice apartment, unusual relationship with
(17:44):
his mother, but apart from that, you know, you gotta
go I'm like, no, I'm just the regular guy. What
the hell you know? But you're like, well, I'm an actor,
so I get to go on this interesting journey and
discover all these different quirks about this particular character. And
that part's been fun. Yeah, So I've enjoyed that. Yeah, yeah,
what are you right? I think a little nudge here, a
little mutch there. Yeah, you know, but for opportunities, chances, choices,
(18:09):
you know, who knows, who knows. So it's a very
the journey is very interesting. You work in Chung Chuan
Ung Chi yung Chi. It's like a dream role for me.
I gave that that universe and even though I've sort
(18:30):
of skidded around a little bit with Agents of Shield
to work in the Marvel film, I mean it's kind
of the top of the mountain. Yeah, I mean, because
I heard that you had maybe just kind of reached
out and said, hey guys, I'm here, right, you know, yeah,
what was that?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
That gets a lot? Yeah, I'm so curious about I mean,
I did I sent out this this tweet when you're
like unemployed and at home, you just like you tweet,
that's what you did, you know. So twenty eighteen was
this like big kind of watershed moment. I feel like
for everyone and for everyone that wasn't white in Hollywood.
Just for lack of a better way of putting it,
but it was like, you know, crazy rich Asians you know,
(19:07):
came out, Black panther came out and then you know,
this this little tiny movie called Searching came out starring
John Choen, and it was like three box office successes
at wildly different price points. So you had like a
nine hundred thousand dollars kind of like pseudo indie that
gross seventy five million, and then you had this like
forty five fifty million dollar Crazy Rich Asians which did
(19:30):
two fifty which was greaty and then and you know,
obviously Black Panther made a billion, and so it was
just like the world. I mean, as I'm saying, I'm
feeling sad because this is not the world that we
live in now, but like everything, and it was such
a celebration of diversity, and and it was on the
heels of that that Marvel greenlit a chunk Chi movie.
I did send Yeah, I sent out a tweet like, hey,
(19:51):
are we you know we're doing this? We're doing this
or what?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Love?
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I don't think anyone ever read it, but I think
it would. Yeah, it spoke to I was like, oh, no,
that's my dream role. I'm never going to get it.
There'sn't a chance in hell, but that's my dream, right. Yeah,
you know, I refused to kind of have any sort
of hope that it was going to happen for me.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
What was your process in how did you? I mean,
was it you know, just kind of banging at the door.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I mean I had a manager at the time who
was speaking to casting, and maybe the talent pool for
Asian actors just wasn't It's not like insane, you know,
Tom Holland I think very famously had to like audition
against something. This is not the right number, but like
twelve thousand potential Spider Man, right, like I think maybe
(20:37):
I had one one hundred and fifty, which is not
a small number, but it's still like, you know, it's
it's significant. March or April I sent in, you know,
my first tape, which was scenes from Goodwill hunting because
they never shared their actual script, right, And then in
June July I met the director and then a few
(20:58):
weeks later I screen tested, and then two days after
that I got the job. And yeah, it was I
mean to talk about like a kid from Toronto. Yeah, tense,
like the whole like first place, you know, Winner Takes All.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
And you had but you've been into business enough to
know what that meant. And then in some ways when
I auditioned for Doune. I didn't really have a concept
of what we were talking about and the scope and
the scale. I just was like, Oh, this is an audition.
I'm an actress. Is a job. I'll go do this job,
you know. Just yea naivete, you know what I mean? Yeah,
but having but being kind of knowing how this is
(21:30):
going to change. It's a weird thing, right. It's like
I always feel like I don't want to look straight
at it. I just want to it's just over here.
I just want to It's in my periphery and if
I look at it, it's going to disappear totally. That's
the way I feel about stuff like that. Yeah, And
the experience was awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
It was I mean of shooting it was.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
It was.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
It's the most incredible experience of my of my life.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We shot it in Sydney, Australia, and I'll never have
that feeling again of just coming to work every day
and like we had such a special bond. I feel
like all of us in the cast because we all
knew how important it was.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Going to be.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You know, yeah, we thought it We thought it would
make a billion dollars but then you know, the like
the variants hit and then we were you know, we
opened at a time where like you couldn't even sit
next to someone at the at the movie theater, I
feel like, and a lot of parts of the world.
But still we managed to scrap together like four hundred
and four and fifty million.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
That's amazing. It's not bad, that's amazing. I love it.
I really yeah. I was just like going that. I mean,
it's weird because I studied when I was growing up,
another nerdy thing I did. I used to take, I took,
I studied karate, so I studied a Korean form show
a con Yeah. It's so funny because I'm like, yeah,
(22:42):
I share, I share this in a completely different environment,
you know. So parents are on board, everybody's everybody's good now,
they're like, wow, thankfully.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I feel like my parents and I sorted out a
lot of our issues before the big moment, because I
feel like there would always be a part of me
that would be like a little bit like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
now you're on board.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah yeah, right, really you didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
You didn't, yeh exactly exactly. But no, they, to their credit,
I think somewhere in the struggle of it all, they
started to really understand and were very begrudging became very
begrudgingly supportive. And so when shann Shi happened, it was
a really great celebratory moment for all of us, thank goodness.
And they were, you know, one of the first people
that I called. And I think a lot of immigrant
(23:25):
parents don't retire or retire late out of just this
fear and anxiety of not being able to support their
kids and be there for their kids, because you know,
it really comes down to support system, right Like, if
you immigrate to a new country, you don't know anybody
who don't speak the language, you have no support system,
you got no safety net. And so I feel like
they that kind of anxiety dominates your existence. And so
(23:46):
I think seeing watching my dad retire he retired during
the pandemic, and then my mom shortly shortly after, seeing
them just like get to travel the world, live life
on their own terms finally and not feel this constant
burden to like support or provide or sacrifice, you know,
has been has been a great, a great joy.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Yeah, me very satisfying.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
When I'm stuck in a when we're you know, in
the like Pitch Dark soundstage, seven thirty in the morning,
and I look at my parents and they're doing the
Turtle mont Blanc in France. I'm like, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah,
maybe I'll retire.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Yeah. And do they come to the side, do they
do they come and visit? Do they they?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
They come to a few there's they're really really shy
about it.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, said is also just I mean, yeah, it's a lot.
It's a lot. At the first hour, you're like, okay, yeah, yeah,
I'm good, I'm done here.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, on this, on this last show that I did,
they they came a few times and I timed it
around lunch so there wouldn't be too much like idle
time and waiting time. But yeah, get them to get
them to a buffet though, and they'll yeah that's very quick.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yeah exactly. I love that. There's this one you're talking about.
It is that the it's it's called cock Yeah, yeah,
tell me about that. Is this is going to drop soon? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, it comes out. I mean I don't know when
this this will air, but it comes out December twenty
seventh on Okay, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Very cool. And you you're the star, you're the lead, yeah,
and EP on it and an EP yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
You've had that credit before. I'm thinking not.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Meaningfully, not meaningful sometimes. I think that that title gets
thrown around a lot in our industry, and this was
the first time that I feel like it really meant something,
meant something to me, it meant something to you know,
the showrunners and the co creators and producers and so yeah,
it was this amazing process where I think because being
(25:43):
an actor on stage it's such a.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Different feeling than being an actor in film.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
There's a lot more ownership on the stage, control the
ey of the audience on stage truly. In film it's
a director's medium's an editors medium. So you're you're a
paint maybe you're a paint brush at best. Yeah, yes,
you know. And then and then they go and they
assemble every thing and there's a final product that comes out.
But like by then you're so far removed from that process.
As a producer, I mean, it was it was just
(26:07):
really awesome getting to tell the story, you know, getting
to be in the writer's room, for example, and to
listen to people's ideas and to give ideas and then
to be on set and to you know, it's almost
like worry about things that were not just my character,
you know, and just you know, and and and that
almost in a kind of roundabout way, helped me get
into character because then I would know why that was there,
(26:30):
and I would know why that screen was there. And
so often I feel like, especially on these like you know,
on these shows, that there's a lot of sets. You know,
you come and you're like, great, this looks awesome, and
now you're shooting, and it's like you don't have time
to really like feel where you are and like ground
yourself being an actor in TV, and it's just it
can be such a rushed experience, you know, where.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
As you said, it's like you're sort of in your
own lane. I don't know if that's exactly with your
own little pod as an actor. And I agree with
you in terms of having a larger influence, because it
does demand that you have to done now. You have
to understand kind of this every every character story. And
I think it's helpful because then you say, okay, this
is this is how I fit into this, yes, And
(27:13):
then these characters need they're going to need things that
I hadn't really thought about, and so you sort of
feed that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
It informs the choices that you make yes to serve that,
and hopefully makes the story better because of it.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
And I think that type of involvement is Yeah, it's
a step beyond just coming in. I have my lines, great.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, And and and of course, like our timelines are
constantly being constricted, you know, they're like, okay, like when
was the last I can't remember when I last had
a table read a table read, or like a rehearsal
for something on screen. It's just like, no, you just
show up and yeah, then you do it.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah, well good, that's I'm excited. This is going to
be good. It's eight episodes.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, it's eight episodes. You know, it's like paranoid spy thriller.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, I know a little bit of what it is.
It's sound. It's a very interesting.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, thank you, Yes, yeah, So I play this X
Special Forces Analysts. His name is Alexander Hale. He works
for this kind of like CIA esque organization called the Orphanage.
And the Orphanage is important because it houses a lot
of national secrets. They monitor all of the other intelligence agencies,
the FBI, the NSA, the you know, the CIA, and
(28:21):
they kind of serve as an internal affairs and they
also kind of oversee intelligence.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Operations in the US. And it's fictional.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It doesn't actually right right, right, but it's cool, and
we like we kind of like the idea that there
was like kind of a benevolent deep state. It was
like kind of discomforting thought for I think Thomas and
Jen the showrunners, and for me just living in kind
of like a politically messy, messy time knowing I'm like, oh, yeah,
it'd be nice if there was like a shadowy group
of people who actually like really cared and had people's
(28:50):
best interests.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Be nice.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
So Alexander works for this for this agency, is an analyst, and.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
I like that throw back. You've got some history, you
can analyst countant.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yeah, a little bit slight differences in our pilot, Alexander's
been experiencing migraines for a while and he comes upon
this like experimental technology that basically hacks the It's a
nanotechnology that hacks eyes and ears and so people can
unwittingly become moles. And he realizes that he's been hacked
(29:21):
and then he's a mole and that's what he's feeling,
is yeah, and so it sets into you know, sets
into play this like big kind of Truman Show esque
game that he starts to play with his enemy and
with his end with the Orphanage, where you know, he
realizes he's been hacked, but he doesn't want to just
the easiest thing to do would be to say, hey,
I've been hacked.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Stop.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
But you know, he realizes he's been hacked, and he
realizes that having a two way link actually can benefit
them because they can start feeding the enemy false information.
And so he figures out a way to communicate that
to the Orphanage without actually communicating it right, And so
the show is very much about like monitoring, you know,
it's like about these micro expressions and about what he
(30:01):
does with his hands while he's looking you know, this way,
and somehow let the Orphanage know what's going on, and
then they kind of start to build this false world
around him where that he has to navigate and kind
of anticipate what they want him to do.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Incredibly complex.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Yeah, it's yeah, as I'm explaining it, I'm like, oh boy, yeah, no,
but I'm but as you're talking about it, I'm thinking myself, Yes,
that is like just.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
A little bit of the research that we did. So
it feels like it's in your wheelhouse, very much in
your wheelhouse, just because there are so many things. Just
just watching some of your social Yeah, I think it
was coming on the was it the Jennifer Hudson Show,
and there's they kind of carry you through the oh
the story tunnel. Yes, I hadn't seen before, and I
was like, oh, and you have to dance your way
(30:49):
through and suddenly you're whipping out all the stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. College, yes,
And I'm like I'm always looking first, like you learn
certain skills like I went to school for three years
and training, we learned to do things. We learn't juggling,
We learn all sorts of different things, always looking like
hey I know how to do that? Yeah, how can
we integrate that? And it was so like unexpected and
(31:12):
just like whoa, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
I was get so embarrassed when people actually watch I
don't know, it's some you know, because it's like all
of this happens on my phone. I'm like, oh, I
see it, and I'm like, oh, that's fine. And then
when someone actually references I get so embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, I just stuck out to me because I was like,
that was unexpected and very cool. Yeah, and like you
weren't just kind of faking it. I dance around the
spirit tunnel to get Yeah, I would be it would
be tough, but it looks like it's a very cool
idea because they that's they.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Bring you into the They bring you and then and
the crew there are so wonderful and they and they
make a custom song for you. Yeah yeah right, yeah,
they we chanting my name and I think they did
it to Barbie, like I'm a Barbie girl. Oh yeah,
so it's like I'm in Seaman's world. I sent something.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yes, it was cool.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah yeah, it was really really really sweet. Really make
you feel special.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
God, I love that you bring up Barbie. I was
just I mean, I so enjoy Greta is such an
amazing director. I mean, I don't know her. I've never
worked with her as an actor, but I just love
what she does. And when I see her speak, I'm like,
she is so smart, she's so interesting. She's has a
very very specific vision and she seems to really I mean,
she loves the creative dynamics, balancing back and forth. Yea energy. Yeah, yeah,
(32:26):
your experience on that was was was it awesome? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
And she and really in large part because of her Yeah,
she she really Yes, she does have a very specific
idea of what she wants, but also what she wants
is something that's like so malleable and so joyous when
she makes discoveries. It's not about the ego of being
right as it is a lot of you know, directors
(32:49):
that I maybe worked with. It's about we're here, let's
find something. This is what I think. What do you think? Yeah,
and then when something happens, it's like the way that
there's this like really viral clip of I think I
think it's Certin and Timothy, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
But where she's like kiss her you know, do you
guys know this clip where.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Greta is standing behind the monitor and she's watching these
two actors and they're frolicking and she's just laughing like
she's having the best time. Yeah, And that was Yeah,
that's that's her on I think on everything that she does.
It was her on Barbie and it's just we worked
together really to give Mike Ken his very specific identity,
you know, as it pertains to Ryan's ken, this idea
(33:29):
of like being weirdly intimidating or something because he could backflip.
That's what we like. Yes, that's what we landed on.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
David was very much like that joyful behind the monitor
watching and even when we didn't have a dune in
Blue belve we didn't have monitors, he was right there
by the camera and and just very wrapped, you know,
and also love just like wanted so much kind of
one to be there. You know, there's like an umbilical
(33:57):
cord almost, you feel. And certainly when we did Twin Peas,
it was a lot of like he would he actually
created a character for himself so he could come into
the world of twin people, which I loved, you know
what I mean. But I feel like that with Greta
there's definitely that really connection, yeah, which is really magical. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I love a director that might ruin a take because
they're laughing so bad, you know, it's like that's the
best reason.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, I agree with you. Yeah, And I have worked
with some directors that are just basically they're just intimidating
that they come out from behind the curtain and you're like, Okay,
what which which personality am I going to get? So
is it is it the calm kind of fund or
is it the one? Don't you ever you know, Yeah, yeah,
I hear if you had experiences like that. But it's
like I've.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Never, thankfully i've never been yelled at, but I've definitely
been like, very dryly like, yeah, if you could, if
you could just do what's written, that would be Oh god,
that would be great.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
And it just it just it just kills your spirit.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mean, it's tough because you want. I mean, yeah,
of course, it's a you know, it's a professional environment,
so it's not all about fun and games. It's not
about having the best time. But I do think that
we tend to do our best work as creatives when
we feel free.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
We're going to take a break and we'll come back.
We're going to do this game. It's called Simu and
His Superhero Sidekicks. Okay, great, so this is this is exciting,
this is great. We're here. I have a cape. You
have a cape and a mask, and yeah, I don't
recognize you. I don't even know it's you. Maybe you
(35:29):
knew this.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
I was a birthday party like superhero oh for some time,
no kidding.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
During my struggle years.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
So this is really like, it's really taken me back in.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
A good way. Yeah, you're not breaking in a sweat, You're
not breaking Yeah. No, kids are not physically assaulting me.
So it's a big win when when yes for those
for those unlucky for you who are only listening. So
we are dressed in our superhero costumes. We're both wearing masks,
very Adam West, very Adam West, and a very cape
as well. Batman and Rob is Batman and Robin all
the way. There's no tights, no not so use your imagination.
(36:03):
But yeah, I love this.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I love the like bright and shiny superhero era campy.
You know, I just feel like the color pallet just
keeps getting darker and grittier.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, and darker. Let's go back to the and yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, everything's just like black now black and dark and
no capes.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
You know, no caps. This is a terrible thing. I'm
a big fan of capes, I said.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Mine says, bruh, I'm a superhero.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
And mun says I'm the sidekick. So I'm Robbin to
your Batman.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
It's not true. I feel like, I'm your sidekick.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Okay, the names, and we're gonna choose our names. But
first of all, we're gonna remind us. So we're gonna
do some we're gonna we're doing some superhero readings and stuff.
We're gonna find our superhero names. So yeah, we have
this special chart here. Okay, got it. It's gonna give
us the first letter of your first name and the
first letter of your last name. We'll give you your
superhero name. Okay, got okay, So let's start. Kyle McLoughlin.
(36:57):
K So my first my superhero name is is Okay, blue?
And where's the M.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
You are wearing Blue Talent, like the Blue Talent, Blue
Talent first letter okay, S C S and L the
Iron Rock.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I don't know. I like that's a good one, supid.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
I think Blue the Iron Rock and the Yeah and
the Iron Rock and his trusty sidekick Blue Talent, the
Blue Talent.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
These are guys. Yeah, they're they're in Trouble's Superhero Trouble.
You're an acting coach, you love to do yes, and
you're going to be teaching Kyle how to be a superhero.
Yeah okay, yeah, these are lines for my projects. So
the first one is we interface Flintstone. We conceptualize tend
to rise, prioritize. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah, no, that was really great. That was a really
great initial delivery.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, it's not a bad first draft. That's good.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
It's good good. I've been doing this for forty years,
so you know, but.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I can I feel like you came at it from
like a really analytical place. A superhero's greatest quality is
actually their ability to put the everyday man at ease.
So rather than saying something from an analytical perspective of like,
you know, this is what we do, it's like, uh,
comfort me with it, comfort me, put me at ease
(38:13):
with the just the authority and the and the certainty
of your of your voice.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay, ok, let's right, let's try. Yeah, we interface Flintstone.
We conceptualize tender.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Oh okay, prior Oh there's like a flirtatious quality.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Yes, yes, yeah, I'm trying to connect, trying to connect ideas.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Your Okay, your your my first line, which is your
your line? I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer.
My first guest would be Doune.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yes, that like in a marvel.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Way, a marvely way.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I feel like, I feel like, again, we've just gone
to such a minimalistic place. I kind of want to
do it the like Adam west Well, which also is
like it's it's more I would say, like more presentational, right,
And it's more like it's it's like you're performing it
on a stage, because you know, superheroes always have audiences,
so it's like it comes from a place of I
(39:19):
must not fear. Fear is the mind killer.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
That's confident, very, you know. I like that we're all
about our secret identity. With the mask on, I feel
like liberating.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Okay, so this is it.
Speaker 4 (39:35):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I have been her dentist for years, but last week
I was looking into her mouth and decided to stick
my tongue in it. I remember this line, reading it
and going I remember doing this line and going, this
is the strangest line. I have been her dentist for years,
but last week I was looking into her mouth and
(39:56):
decided to stick my tongue in it, really trying to
channel Chris Hamsworth.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
But I don't know if I was able to do it,
because you got to have a bit of the alsie
Oh no, I've been a dentist for years. Last week lost,
I was looking into her mouth and decided to stick
my tongue at it.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
You're telling me something.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
I find if I'm reading reading the script right, and
you read a line and it's something triggers something in me,
and I suddenly go, oh my god, that's Chris Walker. Yeah.
The rhythm of the line goes boom right into the
back of my head. Oh oh, I've been a dentist
for years. Yeah, last week, Yeah, you know what I mean. Okay,
(40:47):
here we go.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Yeah, it feels like someone's taking a crowbar to my heart.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
I mean, obviously this person's talking about heartbreak, but maybe
in the superhero context it's an actual crow bar.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
I heart love this choice with it.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
Yes, yes, it feels like someone's taking a crow bart
to my heart.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Oh, let me get let me remove that rob you like.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Someone's taking a crowbar to my heart.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
That was genius. Who are you? I'm right here, I'm
right here. Yeah, oh my god. That was funny. But
a superhero is. Yeah. I think it's part of the
part of the fun of Marvel is the fun that
they have and the sort of the ad lib kind
(41:40):
of nature of it. So when you're in your character
like that, you you then you can sort of, you know,
move around a little bit.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Charlotte, you're making a scene, not like your spine. Yeah,
you know, I love that, perfect feel. Trey is from
a very well to do family. He's I think he
would never be caught slouching the way that I Slauch.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Howards superhero person, excellent posture. Come now, shot it. You're
making a scene.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
I love I love I saw it. I saw it
that you guys are very nice. No, I love because
they're so they're superhuman. It's fun when you make them human,
right and kind of have those moments.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
So yes, so we look forward. That's on the twenty seventh, right,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, yeah, really excited about it, you know, for the
first time being an executive producer, which we talked about,
which is really really exciting. And yeah, just put put
a lot of myself into into it, and very grateful
to ever have an opportunity to be number one on
the call sheet. It's not you know, it doesn't happen
every day, and now I don't ever take it for granted.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's very special and I would imagine this number one.
There's a responsibility of kind of setting setting the tone, yeah,
which you which you understand completely.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, I try to. I try to just you know,
you know, I thrive in states of play. I think
a lot of us do, and so I think just
keeping that sense alive as much as you can. Obviously,
you know, it's it's a job, and their economic constraints
and and things that you have to do, and it's
not always fun every single day every day. But yeah,
if if you're able to kind of instill just a
(43:22):
little bit of lightness, I feel like that's.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, I agree with go along agree, that's that's a
perfect thing. All right. That's all the time we have today.
There's me there's more time in the day. But we're
we've I got to We've gotta go, we gotta go,
we got we have got to rescue some people. You're ready,
Here we go.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, Iron Rock there literally.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
What are we even doing? Is a production of iHeartMedia
and the Elvis Duran podcast network, hosted by me Kyle
McLachlin and created and produced by Full Picture Productionists, featuring
New Yata and artwork by Danica Robinson. For more information
about the podcast. Please visit our Instagram and TikTok at
(44:08):
wawed with Kyle. Please rate, review, and subscribe to What
Are We Even Doing on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere
you get your podcasts. Exclamation points
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