January 8, 2026 • 35 mins
Girl, you know it’s… complicated. This episode starts with preschool teachers named Miss Hiney and ends with a philosophical breakdown of what it means to be real. Kevin and Casey dive into the glittery chaos of Milli Vanilli: two men, zero vocals, infinite vibes. There’s a surprisingly passionate defense of karaoke, an unhinged metaphor involving spoon players and generational trauma, and a reminder that sometimes the greatest lip-sync of all is pretending you’re fine. Is it fraud? Is it performance art? Is it drag?? Is it… kinda genius???
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come on and give it a chance. Give
it a chance, give it a chance, give it a chance.
Come on and give it a Do you want to
give it a chance? Give it a chance, give it
a chance. Just give it a.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello everyone, A little bit of a casual. Who's your father?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm coming live from my daughter's bedroom.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Casey, and I hope sometimes I love by the way,
what's happening. I see Peppa Peppa pigs in the house,
See some art. I see some wall of cassettes? Or
is that a painting of a wall of cassettes?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, those are my actual cassettes. They were.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
This is when this was like an office that I used,
ye or I had a child and I put that
up there, and it's never it's like, it's that's just
part of the room.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Now I will we have this in common. Well, this
is like the living in New York City situation. My
office is when Edie is with me, that is her
it's just like half her bedroom. It's like seventy percent
her bedroom. And then I have like a desk in
the corner. That's my music world. Is this today's song
(01:15):
about parenting?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, this has nothing to do with that. This part.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The other thing we once to point out is if
anyone ever sees this, maybe this can be in the Yeah,
this is fun. Now we are wearing the same shirt.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's so clean.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's really beautiful that we
just started. We're so in sync, you know, like I
think often women have their periods. They get their periods
when they hang out all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
They often get them.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, they do that. It happens in science. Men wear
the same shirt.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Men wear the same shirt. Women are from venus.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But the other thing, we can't have a period if
you have zanus.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Sorry, there's only one piece that up there is but drumsticks.
They were my first set of drumsticks, and Wow and
my great grandfather's drumsticks from when he played Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
In like the Fire Department Marching Band.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I never knew that was a feature of the I
never knew that it was a family feature.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Family feature he played.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And my great aunt, so my grandfather's sister told me
that he used to do comedy and music in New
York City and my grand my grandfather disliked his father
because he was the oldest and my great grandfather was
a bit of a of a shithead, and he would
just like take the money from the fire department, like
the Czech be like here's half for his wife and
(02:40):
the family, and take the other half and like just
go drink and h and he and so my grandfather
was like, that's not right, like and he never was
like that at all. He was very much like a
family dude, and he was basically raising his siblings like
you know, as the oldest, but the youngest kid, which
is my great aunt, she loved her father like she
(03:00):
didn't have that same feeling and was like he used
to go to the city and play music and do comedy.
He used to play the spoons and did like a
comedy act. He would do thrones and like play the
spoons and do like music and comedy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And when was this, like nineteen eighty five he was.
He was downtown. He was there like when Maren started,
like the very end of Kinnison, like that was more
of an la thing. But anyways, sorry.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
He is Yeah, it was, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So my grandfather was born in like the nineteen twenties,
so it must have been like around then. It must
have been the twenties thirty how you know.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Really wild to think about and also kind of fascinating
when you find out. I love that this is how
we're starting this episode. This is great, really wild when
you find out there's so many different ways in which
you are threaded into the fabric of your family history.
And like when you find things like that out, you're like,
(03:58):
not you to be a pretty upstanding, responsible young man,
but incredible, but the parts about music and comedy and
knowing that there's like you know what I mean, like
some mystory of so much it's really wild. Yeah, it's
really really wild. Like my maternal grandfather, he was he
(04:19):
passed way before my mom was fourteen when he died
nineteen sixty six, but he and he was like a
construction workers worked on one part of the team that
worked on the arizontal bridge, like worked in construction in
South Brooklyn from but came from Newfoundland, Canada. But he
was like wrote poetry always, like sang was like a
(04:41):
you know, like a very like music and art forward
but like a like a working class guy, but like
had these inclinations towards like storytelling, and I don't know,
it's interesting to find that stuff out. Also sometimes what
you also find out if you end up maybe what's
the word exhibiting some of these behaviors yourself later in life,
is you do find out like, oh, I wasn't the
first person who was like drinking, yeah recklessly that existed
(05:05):
in the family before.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure I.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Knew that there was evidence of that. You didn't have
to go quite as far back. But anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well one thing that's cool is that our great grandfathers
or lineage, they really did those things.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh oh is this about? Okay, so this is where
it's true. Guys, this is this is You're in the
fucking hands of a master. Do you know that this
is where he transitions into what's coming next? I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
You're in the You're in the hint zone.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We should have we what are we doing? We need
to sponsor each little part, every family corner.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yep, family family corner. We're just opening up with family corner.
But now it's time to take it to the hint zone.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yea, yeah, hint zone. And that could be sponsored by
like Encyclopedia Britannica.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That'd be great if they gave us all that money.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Or Wiki now it would be Wiki.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, it would probably be Wiki feet.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, wellcome to the hint zone sponsored by Wiki. Okay,
so that makes me think that today's Chancey is something
that did not happen.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Chancey. I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That's the person that we're like, we're giving a chance
to at the Chancey.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I don't think we've ever said that. I really like that.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I know, I'm just making up now.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Our chancers are going to love Chancey.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The chancers and the chances. What are we? We're the
ones giving the chance, We're the givers, We're the giving tree.
Do I have to get a hint?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I know, I didn't know if you want another hint
or if you if you have anything in your mind?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh wait, So the guess is these are things that
didn't really happen.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That's that's all that the people that we were talking
about really did those things.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yes, okay, so this would be something that the person
in question did not really do. M Okay, is it
like I'm only a bird a phony ridge or whatever
that is?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
No, I know that song though it's na easy.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That's not I just know because I know that guy
is not really Superman.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh that's pretty good. So Superman five for fighting five
for fighting.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That's a good fighting, that's a good that's a hockey
penalty thing. Let's see. Okay, now give me another hint.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I never realized that. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Okay, they were infamous for they had a big incident
that kind of turned their entire career. Which is you
know which.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh it's yes, it's girl. You know it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Oh my gosh, yep?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Or is it blame it on the rain?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Which one I'll do either.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I I don't know Milli Vanilli, And kind of why
I brought this so you're so older, decrepit, and so
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, I was playing in clubs with your great
grandfather and honestly, du he was a ship heead.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I forgot boozing together. Malcolm was there, but back when
he was Detroit read it was a day. It was
a big thing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
You did it? Give it a chance? Radio show four talkies. Yes,
I don't know Milli Vanilli at all. I just know
that they're like a joke or a punchline, and that
in the little research I did that not only did
they get caught lip syncing, which I want to talk
(08:25):
a lot about lip syncing. They also were not even
the ones that did the backing track.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's amazing. I don't know if I remember the right
they so they didn't even actually sing. They were fully
just like the face.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They were doing karaoke.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, they weren't even doing karaoke. They were lip syncing, right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh you're right, Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, you're right.
They were lip syncing karaoke.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Right, Actually lip syncing karaoke is agreat that's something that's
the name of a short story or I don't know,
something's gotta.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, what's interesting, like yeah, yeah, I guess they
were like the kind of the first drag queens in
some way or early probably not the first, but early drag,
because that's what drag is so much, is like, is like.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Lip syncing, like emphatic performance lip syncing. Yeah, certainly I've seen.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Some drag that is unbelievable though. That's oh well that the.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Quality will have been believable sometimes and it's so funny
sometimes and committed. Yeah, and they take it to a
whole other level, like it really is like a fun
art form.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Without question. I think that what's funny about Melli Vanilli
before we've listened to the song is I suppose you
could say they were doing it at a high enough
level to have for a year or so completely fooled
the American record buying public, and also like the Grammys,
in the American Music wards, if I remember correctly, they
were like they won awards like they were or at
(09:46):
least they performed. So before we even jump in, well,
actually we can jump in and I can say all
this stuff. The one thing I'll say is this is
another I liked. This has been a thread in these
recent episodes. This is another place where our slight age
DIF Friends is like the most formative. I think it
always is the biggest deal in the most formative years.
Millie Vanilli was like I was a member of Columbia House,
(10:09):
which you've talked about. I think we got twelve cassettes
for a penny and then you had to like subscribe
every month. I'm pretty sure I got is the record
Blame it on the rain? The album? Is that the
name of the first Milli Vanilli album, or might just
be Milli Vanilly. Their first album was one of like
I was in fifth grade, I think when I subscribed
to that, and I think I got them, they were
(10:29):
like it was them, Debbie Gibson's Electric Blue and some
other like pop records amongst like Guns N' Roses, Motley Crue, Poison,
like they were the four Like non, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Were you all ordering for the whole family?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I think that was like you got your own.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Weirdly, I think my parents like that was maybe like
them identifying that, like I was becoming like obsessed with Yeah,
like music was a thing I was like super interested in.
I think I'm sure my mom must have gone to
my dad and been like, well, it's like a penny
and then it's like once a month you gotta pay
like eight dollars seven ninety nine. Penny was a lot
back then, and then's why it was thirty one in
(11:08):
nineteen thirty, nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, yeah, when I was pay with your great grandpa. Yeah,
you were making a lot of pennies back then, I heard.
And it's interesting not giving any of those pennies to
the mic. I would get half a penny.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I would bite it. But then also what was.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Interesting was like that's how your hair turn red. That's
how my hair turn red.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Propper and honestly, the thing that I also think it's
cool that you finally shared with people. Is that that
is that your great grandfather was the is the spoon
man from the titular spoon Man from the Sad Garden.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And Cornell Vampire always looked great, but he was around
in those clubs too.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
He was Cornell was merely vanilliating my grandpa great.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
He was Milli vanilliatd. He was lip thinking karaoke spoons.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
We haven't even played the song yet.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Let's do it. Which, let's do? Uh? How you pick
dealers you have heard about?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I just wanted to follow up by saying their first
album was All or Nothing, which is really funny because.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
That's their third song, all on Nothing. It's got to
be I remember that.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Which is actually like really like when you apply that
to what they are, all of us, girl, you know
it's true. Also very funny because it's not true. It's
it's actually boy, you.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Know it's false.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Boy, you know it's false.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Then their next album is the moment of truth that
might have been after and they were like.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I think so. I think so because I think they
I think their rise and fall and we would have
to we would have to go to our sponsor Wiki
Feet about this. But I think their rise and fall
was like pretty I think it was all on that
first record. I'm pretty sure they got like caught on
their first record, like at some public performance or something.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yes, yes, yeah, so they were It was like an
MTV thing because I think Downtown Julie Brown was there
like trying to help cover up, you know, and then
it started looping, like like the record started looping, you know, girl,
you know, yeah, it was like that, and you had
to run off and get it. So if you haven't
seen that clip, you should. I watched it right before.
(13:12):
But I haven't heard the song yet.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
By the way, we also have to at some point.
One of the things we need. We need sponsorship around
Casey's research corner too.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's so true. We need that.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean, that would be great if it was Encyclopedia Britannica.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Or brand Cyclopedia Brown as a reference that only people
who are Candice Burg. So which one we do and
which one you want to do?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I think, girl, you know, it's true. It's the first
one that comes up, and I don't know it. So
I don't know any of these songs, but that's what
I think. But it's up to you.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No, no, it's not. Girl, you know it's true. Let's go.
It's wow, thank you for bringing me back case. That
(14:07):
was I dude, I forgot about. I definitely spent some
time with that song.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Great.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I love that frame of reference. You're coming at it
already with like, oh my god, I.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Have a question. I don't know which how you listened.
We always we engage differently. Did you have the spoken
word intro the conversation between the guy and the girl?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
You know, I can't. I have the music video, so
I don't think you did.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Then there's an amazing no conversation that happens at the beginning,
which I don't remember. That must not have been like
on the radio edit if you didn't see it in
the music video, but yeah, basically where it's like she's like,
so what are you doing back and he's like, well,
I sat back and thought about the things we used
to do. It really meant a lot to me. You
mean a lot to me. And then she says I
(14:58):
really mean that much to you, and then he says, girl,
you know it's true, and then the song starts. That's
a great preface. So I just want you to know that.
I want the listeners to know that.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I like that a lot, actually, And I wonder who
said that. I wonder if they were like, well, we'll
just have let's have Millie do it.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't think it was Millie Orbanilly. And that's funny,
like their names were something else, right, I'm sure, but
Robin Fab, Robin Fab.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They put out an album for real with them singing
after all, this called Robin Fab but the originally the
real singers.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And let's get this.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
One is named Brad Howell, who's like an older dude
that you're like, Okay, I can see why they didn't
like push this dude because he's not like a pop
you know, kind.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Of he's not like a Matinee, idol whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
The other guy's name is John Davis from Korn. Jonathan Davis.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It's this was a teenage Jonathan Davis from Corn.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
The same though, right like those those two yeah right,
like I was David Matthews.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
But they do do the same.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Jonathan Davis walk so that the guy who does could run.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
What what that's the down with the sickness guy Jonathan Davis. Well,
first of all, yes, Jonathan Davis walks into a bar, No,
Jonathan Davis.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Walk My grandpa's there playing.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and this spoo man is there, Jonathan Davis walked.
So the guy from whatever that band is disturbed or something.
They could run but teenage Jonathan Davis walked. So, you know,
I don't know what could we say like in sync
if this is teenage Jonathan Dave.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So you're saying, but Milli Vanilli, right, yeah, yeah, So
this is late eighties, right, So.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Eighty nine I would pray, get eighty nine into ninety
is that right?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, But let me ask you if New Kids on the.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Block totally happening at the same time.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Same time or before, probably slightly before.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I want to say, New Kids on the Block was
eighty eight, started in eighty eight, and probably like Real
Peek was eighty eight to ninety, is what I would bet.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And then what about like new Edition?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
New Edition was a little before, right, I would say
a new Edition was like mid late mid eighties that starts.
I bet eighty six eighty seven, like second half of
the eighties, as I bet. I think a New Edition
was for sure before New Kids on the Block. I
think I think so too. I'm just kind of doing
a quick search. Yeah, new edition is early, like eighty
four is cool it now? Which isn't incredible? Wow? That
(17:33):
was that was as early as eighty four.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Mister telephone man is also eighty four.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That's as they were way before then. That's like Bobby
Brown's like fifteen years old or something, right.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And yeah, no, yeah for sure. And now those are
written by other people, clearly, and that's not an issue. Yes,
in my opinion, for this, for this landscape, their children.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I don't think it's an issue at this point in
any Like, people write songs for people sometimes, like fucking
Willie Nelson wrote Crazy for Patsy Klein that people write
songs for people. It's part of the thing. But my
Frank Sinatra never wrote a word in his life.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Stop, don't even tell me that he's the goat. But
talk to me about how you feel about what Milli Vanilli,
what they tried to pull off, right, like, is it
does it feel like exception to you?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Are you over it? Like? Does it not really matter?
How did you feel at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I don't know if at the time I was ten,
so at the time I probably was just starting to
form very nascent opinions around like authenticity, Like I'm sure
I thought like Axel Rose was more authentic than Millie
Vanilli because he was like rougher and a little less
(18:41):
like seemed like he was less like playing by the rules.
And if you heard him sing live, like his voice
sounded a little different to how it sounded on the
it sounded like him, but you could tell it was
like live imperfect. And I think you start to form
around that age, like very early ideas about what cool is,
what matters, which, of course then is like that stuff is.
(19:02):
So I'm using the word revolutionary like literally like it's
revolving so quickly, getting away from so quickly that of
course within two years about Axel Rose was like a
ridiculous dinosaur.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And but but he would have saang it girl, girl,
you know it's truely you My friends and I love
to add the Axel things like true.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Love that shit. Yeah, it would a lot of like
yeah at the end too. Yeah. He also does a
lot of those like ha yeah, yea yeah, yeah, he
loves that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, that's exactly like does Bens.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
He loves it. He can't get enough. No, I think,
I mean, I think, uh, what I think about it now,
because of course it was totally sacrificial lamb bullshit by
the music industry, the music it's like they fooled Arista
Records or whoever. It's like they fooled the producer. It's
(20:12):
not like they fooled like everyone who was involved in
this becoming like a platinum confection knew the whole fucking
time and then they threw them under the fucking bus
when it happened. And that's what my takeaway from it
is is it is yet enough to me, it's like
yet another iteration of too probably like young I don't
(20:38):
know a ton of but I'm sure there's like a
fucking mountain Goats or Sophi and Stephen Records see Stephen's
record in the Story of Millie Vinili. I'm sure. I
bet it's like two like kids without a lot of
money that were like, I don't know, probably probably part
of like the club scene somewhere, and they were like
in great shape. They looked great with no shirts on
or and tight fitting clothes or whatever. They looked cool.
(21:00):
They become old shoulder pads. That is true that those
were the days, and then those were the day ya
and then Yeah, and then they get this opportunity and yeah,
like it's like fucking boogie Nights or something, you know
(21:22):
what I mean, Like it's or I guess, but I
mean he was really doing it. But there's like something
about it that's just so like classic American entertainment tragedy
story where then they like get to this position and
I'm sure the further and further they got they had
to feel like, yo, someone's gonna find out at some point.
(21:43):
And I don't remember at any point do I remember,
Like I mean, I don't have to go back and look,
but what I really remember being something people were like
kind of scandalized by and really being this like these
talentless and yet like they deceived the American public. And
of course what I think from that about that now
is that that was an industrial deceit through and.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Through the beyond industry plant beyond that well.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Great complicit not only even complicit, like they they did it.
Do you think they went too far?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I just will just button button that up by
saying That's the thing that I take away from it
is actually like it is yet another iteration of the
like all of the different ways that there's just like
so much blood in the soil with the music industries,
like some things it does.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Some people get really mad with any lip syncing, and
I don't. It depends on what it is, right, Like
so like the super Bowl, I think you're like not
actually allowed to play the instruments like they have to
because of like wind and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So like and like reverberation, I.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Think people were like mad at like the Chili Peppers
for like not playing like the actual instruments, but I
think they were told like there were never no one
does like you're not like allowed to like you're just.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Like Top of the Pops in the UK or something like,
no one's actually playing.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Live and it's really just a celebration of your music
if you get that opportunity. But I think that maybe
it's fifty to fifty with singing or at least like
and you know, maybe you know more than I do
about like I think often like a singer will get
to the venue early, record their vocal in that place.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
For something like the super Bowl, something like super Bowl,
and then play that.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So it's at least like it seems like it's it's
it's in that universe, not like it's in a studio somewhere.
I mean, nowadays they might be able to just take
your track from something else and make it sound like
that with like you know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Effects and things. But it doesn't really bother me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Do I think it's cooler when you see a Beyonce
or a Lady Gaga that's actually singing you know they are,
and they're.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Like Kendrick Lamar, like breathlessly rapping very verbally dexterous things
for twenty five minutes while running around a football field.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I give it more points, but I don't think
I subtract that many points. If I see someone who's
especially like a like if Katy Perry is lip sinking,
I don't really care. I kind of think like, what
has been given to me this from part of this
package is like these pop sensibilities, and for it to
be the best version of it with dancing and choreography
(24:23):
and a shark costume for Katy Perry, I'm like mandatory.
I'm like, this is all part of the thing, and
I'm cool with that, you know, But I do want
on the record it to be Katy Perry's voice, and
I kind of don't want it to be too auto tuned.
That's my other sort of that.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Ship has kind of I think, oh yeah, I actually
think it's like as so to unpack some of those things.
I'm not sure you would. That makes sense to me,
Like I don't really know what happens at a thing
like the super Bowl if people go there and like
I think a blend and it seems like I've seen
certain performances there where it's like very clear that the
person's just like one hundred percent lip syncing, and then
(25:07):
there's some mix where the sometimes people sing, sometimes people
it's like some kind of hybridized things. Sometimes it does
sound like they're there. It looks like they're lip syncing too,
in an alternative performance of the vocal. You know what
I mean, Like they're doing like what you suggested, the
only like semi relevant analogous personal experience I've ever had.
(25:29):
This might surprise our listeners and you what. I have
not played at the super Bowl halftime show.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
But I did do the post you did the post
show and the pose.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah yah, I did the pre well, I did the
pre in the post, I did the end the post.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You did shows before the super Bowl and after the
super Bowl. Like even if it was days later.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I've done shows pre and post almost every Super Bowl
since since like nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Which is in I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Good streak, Meryl streak. But I did I do I
played the national land them at City Field before in
September of twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I don't wait, wait, how do I not know the
fact about you?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Maybe I told you and you forgot. Maybe I never
told Probably you never told me. That is so I'll
send you the VID. But it was that was that
was definitely like a live performance year sixteen September of
twenty sixteen. Yes, did you do it?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
That?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
There was I did? I said, yeah, Actually I didn't.
I mean, I have so many there's so many borderline
later Chris things. I could talk about about that, but
we have to keep it on the chance. But I
will just say that on.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Gone.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
No, I like.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Actually, like I talking about the national anthem, like now
we've entered Kem's Patriot Zone, which is sponsored by US Auto.
But yeah, no, I I that was a thing where
(27:00):
I had the tiniest like taste of what those people
contend with because it's wild, like you do it with
any I did it with in your monitors. It was
a live performance. I'd worked out an arrangement on acoustic
guitar and vocal that was like somewhat like what I
might do, but you're in a bowl. It's forty one
(27:21):
thousand capacity stadium and you're standing like by the pitchers mound,
and it was completely surreal to the extent that it
actually didn't even feel It didn't even feel like it
was really happening in a sense. And what it sounded
like why you have to do it with in ears
is because of the reverberation. Yeah, like there's a there's
a natural delay, it's distance and scope that is just
(27:45):
like like you have to keep the in ears to
actually be like I don't know if like this is
a very niche reference to some degree, but like four
A D Records, it sounded to me like an old
Night or eighties nineties like Pixies, Cock two Twins Cock,
whatever you say that that band, and like or like
House Painters, like so much reverb that you could like
like I was like this like acorn in the middle
(28:07):
of this like field of reverb. So I do understand
from a technical perspective, why if you were doing something
I was doing two minutes once. Ever, if you were
doing something that was to whoever was there and it
was the national anthem, if you were doing like your
five biggest hits in a medley with dancing and whatever
in front of like eighty thousand people and one hundred
(28:29):
million people watching at home, you wanted to just be
the most refined version of the thing as is possible,
and whatever needs to happen from a you know whatever,
Like I don't know, the word corners might need to
be cut. If it's like I'm not really a single.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Socials, it must go on. It needs to be a
good product and packaged well. There's like a lot at Steak.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I don't give a shit at all about people lip
syncing and pop music. And I think it's partly because
of what happened to these guys very quickly to give
the song a chance, such an effective banger we cand
pop song. They're like love that. They didn't even worry
about a bridge, love that. They were just like, let's
get in and out in three minutes, like that style
of late eighties rapt I.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Love it like it takes me back. I love that
stuff and the music. I really liked. It's really like simple,
but it's that simple layering that's almost like minimalist, like almost.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Like drums cool big, like yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
The parts go all so well together, like almost like
a Bazaran song, you know, like a like a David
Bazon song where it's like I would.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Love to hear him sing this.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, it's like minimal and like simple lines, but when
you put them all together, it becomes this complex thing.
And then there's that part towards the end where it's
like that like.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Oh yeah, it was like the production choices, like that
deep rumbling synth thing, and then the way they cut
up that towards the end, like what stands as a
bridge almost like it's like because it's I think sometimes
of a bridge is like a thing that slightly augments
in one space if it lieu of like a like
a traditional Lennon McCartney middle eight or whatever. Sometimes there's
(30:05):
like there's this thing at the end where they just
do this like like in the background, it's like they're
doing all this like interesting chopping and editing. It's a
well produced, well executed dance pop radio song, and it's
a minor key but major in theme, which is kind
of cool. It's like a like a worshipful love song
that's in a minor key, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You were talking about before it was like a beat swap.
And I've been listening to this song because Mariy likes it.
It's called Pretty Girl Rock by Kerry Hilson. It's like
fifteen years ago, and it's good. It's a good song alone.
It's it's just like one of those fun songs that
also kids just like. But it has a great beat
swap in it, like where it's like the exact same
(30:48):
lyrics and stuff while you're talking about and then they
just change the the the the melody of the beat
with like the same drums though, and it's such an
effective fun switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Another song that kind of does it.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It's different because there's a that song uh to p
Diddy song rest in Peace, and it's all about the
Benjamin's Oh there's a beat swap to when Biggie goes
oh yeah verse is like the beat completely changes and
it's so fun. So like anytime there's something that feels
like a real just change, it's it's exciting totally.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
And this is slightly subtle, Yes, yes, just because there's
that's true, that one's great, but there's it's just it
feels like they like make a couple of like production
choices to kind of just like slightly it's almost like
they faint in that direction. So like but but as
far as like authenticity, like it's funny. I think what
(31:46):
this opened up was a much and I think it
almost circled around later that was like I think they
really were like sacrificial lambs, like did the punishment fit
the crime? Like how much are they even to be
blamed for the crime? Is it even a crime? And
then I you know, it makes me think of like
I took in college, you know, like there was a
(32:08):
path that I did not ultimately pursue that was like,
you know, maybe being the kind of person that was
like studying like like journalism slash scholarship about music a
different kind of like like which is I don't know,
maybe that executes itself in a fractional way in our conversations,
but there was like the way like a certain kind
of thoughtfulness about modes of like pop construction or whatever.
(32:29):
And one of the things I do remember fully talking
about in this Woman on a Heed Kasabians class was authenticity,
and I remember her being like, why do you who's
more authentic, Bob Dylan or Britney Spears, And of course,
like most of the class is like who had an
awareness of the two? Was like Bob Dylan and I
remember her being like, why his name's Robert Zimmerman. Everything
he said about his biographical history is made up, like
(32:52):
you know, like she went through all of the things,
and it's like, why do we think because someone's standing
there in like a jeans and a T shirt holding
an acoustic guitar, that's more authentic. Britney Spears was like
Mickey mouse Kid, who never made any bones about wanting
to be anything other than a pop singer, dancer, entertainer.
And that's what this is. I know, we're coming up
to our time.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Beautiful, that's you articulated that so well, or at least
a teacher did new million Vanilla?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Did you fab your fab?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Dudea rob all the day then ended up being the
drummer for the Strokes Fab at least he had like
a second career. He does actually play drums in that sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Actually some people think that it's drum machine and some
people think it's ruel, but it's not. He's just that's
how he learned. He learned from drum Machine little that's
a little fab history. That's true. The yeah, so yeah,
we don't have a ton of time. But I would
say that the song itself is great. I you know,
I give it all the chances because it's like a
you know, confection sugar pop. It's great, and I'm glad.
(33:57):
I never I'm glad I got to experience it for
the first time. I'm like, here, it's really good. I
want to hear the other songs like rare is it
like sometimes you know, we hear MoMA number five or something,
We're like, okay, cool, But I don't really want to.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Get like I'm good on Louis Bega.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, but I want to hear I want to hear
some more of these songs.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Memory serves. If memory serves, blame it on the rain
is maybe even better. Blame it on the rain is
like a really.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That had a song about so I think my friend
told me about that. Is that a song in that
you're crying and you're letting the you're letting the rain
make you cover your tears.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I would have to go back and look.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think you I would know that's I wish it
would rain.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But that's that.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
But that's my person. That's a man who's crying so
much that he's like, I wish it would rain to
cover my face?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Is that Phil Collins girl, I wish it would rain?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Temptations?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Originally maybe maybe the oh no different, that's a different song.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I always thought blame it on the rain was like
almost like about.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
The rain, blame it on the boogie.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I thought it was like almost like life can be
unpredictable and chaotic and painful, and sometimes we can't predict
like it's unpredictable, and sometimes there's nothing to pin to
blame on. So what do you do? Blame it on
the rain like something almost like that. But I haven't listened.
I haven't exigeted the texts in about Crisp thirty eight
(35:25):
at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh wait, right, I'm a forty five, you're much older.
You're my great grandpa's age, And I want to wrap
it up by just saying that my great grandpa he's
It's it's a mixed bag, right, like you hear two
different stories, and that's that's million Vanilli for you, you know,
find your own, find your own reason of why, you
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Your own adventure to Blame it on the rain, Blame
it on your great cunch pennies in half, eat them
fucking sing, or don't I don't care,
Give it a chance, give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come on and give it a chance. Give
it a chance, give it a chance, give it a chance.
Come on and give it a Do you want to
give it a chance? Give it a chance, give it
a chance. Just give it a.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Hello everyone, A little bit of a casual. Who's your father?
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm coming live from my daughter's bedroom.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Casey, and I hope sometimes I love by the way,
what's happening. I see Peppa Peppa pigs in the house,
See some art. I see some wall of cassettes? Or
is that a painting of a wall of cassettes?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, those are my actual cassettes. They were.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
This is when this was like an office that I used,
ye or I had a child and I put that
up there, and it's never it's like, it's that's just
part of the room.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Now I will we have this in common. Well, this
is like the living in New York City situation. My
office is when Edie is with me, that is her
it's just like half her bedroom. It's like seventy percent
her bedroom. And then I have like a desk in
the corner. That's my music world. Is this today's song
(01:15):
about parenting?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No, this has nothing to do with that. This part.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
The other thing we once to point out is if
anyone ever sees this, maybe this can be in the Yeah,
this is fun. Now we are wearing the same shirt.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
That's so clean.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's really beautiful that we
just started. We're so in sync, you know, like I
think often women have their periods. They get their periods
when they hang out all the time.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
They often get them.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, they do that. It happens in science. Men wear
the same shirt.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Men wear the same shirt. Women are from venus.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
But the other thing, we can't have a period if
you have zanus.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Sorry, there's only one piece that up there is but drumsticks.
They were my first set of drumsticks, and Wow and
my great grandfather's drumsticks from when he played Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
In like the Fire Department Marching Band.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I never knew that was a feature of the I
never knew that it was a family feature.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Family feature he played.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
And my great aunt, so my grandfather's sister told me
that he used to do comedy and music in New
York City and my grand my grandfather disliked his father
because he was the oldest and my great grandfather was
a bit of a of a shithead, and he would
just like take the money from the fire department, like
the Czech be like here's half for his wife and
(02:40):
the family, and take the other half and like just
go drink and h and he and so my grandfather
was like, that's not right, like and he never was
like that at all. He was very much like a
family dude, and he was basically raising his siblings like
you know, as the oldest, but the youngest kid, which
is my great aunt, she loved her father like she
(03:00):
didn't have that same feeling and was like he used
to go to the city and play music and do comedy.
He used to play the spoons and did like a
comedy act. He would do thrones and like play the
spoons and do like music and comedy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And when was this, like nineteen eighty five he was.
He was downtown. He was there like when Maren started,
like the very end of Kinnison, like that was more
of an la thing. But anyways, sorry.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
He is Yeah, it was, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So my grandfather was born in like the nineteen twenties,
so it must have been like around then. It must
have been the twenties thirty how you know.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Really wild to think about and also kind of fascinating
when you find out. I love that this is how
we're starting this episode. This is great, really wild when
you find out there's so many different ways in which
you are threaded into the fabric of your family history.
And like when you find things like that out, you're like,
(03:58):
not you to be a pretty upstanding, responsible young man,
but incredible, but the parts about music and comedy and
knowing that there's like you know what I mean, like
some mystory of so much it's really wild. Yeah, it's
really really wild. Like my maternal grandfather, he was he
(04:19):
passed way before my mom was fourteen when he died
nineteen sixty six, but he and he was like a
construction workers worked on one part of the team that
worked on the arizontal bridge, like worked in construction in
South Brooklyn from but came from Newfoundland, Canada. But he
was like wrote poetry always, like sang was like a
(04:41):
you know, like a very like music and art forward
but like a like a working class guy, but like
had these inclinations towards like storytelling, and I don't know,
it's interesting to find that stuff out. Also sometimes what
you also find out if you end up maybe what's
the word exhibiting some of these behaviors yourself later in life,
is you do find out like, oh, I wasn't the
first person who was like drinking, yeah recklessly that existed
(05:05):
in the family before.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, yeah, for sure I.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Knew that there was evidence of that. You didn't have
to go quite as far back. But anyway, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well one thing that's cool is that our great grandfathers
or lineage, they really did those things.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Oh oh is this about? Okay, so this is where
it's true. Guys, this is this is You're in the
fucking hands of a master. Do you know that this
is where he transitions into what's coming next? I love it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
You're in the You're in the hint zone.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
We should have we what are we doing? We need
to sponsor each little part, every family corner.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yep, family family corner. We're just opening up with family corner.
But now it's time to take it to the hint zone.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yea, yeah, hint zone. And that could be sponsored by
like Encyclopedia Britannica.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
That'd be great if they gave us all that money.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Or Wiki now it would be Wiki.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, it would probably be Wiki feet.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, wellcome to the hint zone sponsored by Wiki. Okay,
so that makes me think that today's Chancey is something
that did not happen.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Chancey. I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
That's the person that we're like, we're giving a chance
to at the Chancey.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I don't think we've ever said that. I really like that.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I know, I'm just making up now.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Our chancers are going to love Chancey.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The chancers and the chances. What are we? We're the
ones giving the chance, We're the givers, We're the giving tree.
Do I have to get a hint?
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I know, I didn't know if you want another hint
or if you if you have anything in your mind?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh wait, So the guess is these are things that
didn't really happen.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
That's that's all that the people that we were talking
about really did those things.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yes, okay, so this would be something that the person
in question did not really do. M Okay, is it
like I'm only a bird a phony ridge or whatever
that is?
Speaker 3 (07:02):
No, I know that song though it's na easy.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
That's not I just know because I know that guy
is not really Superman.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh that's pretty good. So Superman five for fighting five
for fighting.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That's a good fighting, that's a good that's a hockey
penalty thing. Let's see. Okay, now give me another hint.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I never realized that. Let's see.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Okay, they were infamous for they had a big incident
that kind of turned their entire career. Which is you
know which.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Oh it's yes, it's girl. You know it's true.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Oh my gosh, yep?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Or is it blame it on the rain?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Which one I'll do either.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I I don't know Milli Vanilli, And kind of why
I brought this so you're so older, decrepit, and so
you know.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
You know, I was playing in clubs with your great
grandfather and honestly, du he was a ship heead.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I forgot boozing together. Malcolm was there, but back when
he was Detroit read it was a day. It was
a big thing.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
You did it? Give it a chance? Radio show four talkies. Yes,
I don't know Milli Vanilli at all. I just know
that they're like a joke or a punchline, and that
in the little research I did that not only did
they get caught lip syncing, which I want to talk
(08:25):
a lot about lip syncing. They also were not even
the ones that did the backing track.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
That's amazing. I don't know if I remember the right
they so they didn't even actually sing. They were fully
just like the face.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
They were doing karaoke.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, they weren't even doing karaoke. They were lip syncing, right.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Oh you're right, Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, you're right.
They were lip syncing karaoke.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Right, Actually lip syncing karaoke is agreat that's something that's
the name of a short story or I don't know,
something's gotta.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You know, what's interesting, like yeah, yeah, I guess they
were like the kind of the first drag queens in
some way or early probably not the first, but early drag,
because that's what drag is so much, is like, is like.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Lip syncing, like emphatic performance lip syncing. Yeah, certainly I've seen.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Some drag that is unbelievable though. That's oh well that the.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Quality will have been believable sometimes and it's so funny
sometimes and committed. Yeah, and they take it to a
whole other level, like it really is like a fun
art form.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Without question. I think that what's funny about Melli Vanilli
before we've listened to the song is I suppose you
could say they were doing it at a high enough
level to have for a year or so completely fooled
the American record buying public, and also like the Grammys,
in the American Music wards, if I remember correctly, they
were like they won awards like they were or at
(09:46):
least they performed. So before we even jump in, well,
actually we can jump in and I can say all
this stuff. The one thing I'll say is this is
another I liked. This has been a thread in these
recent episodes. This is another place where our slight age
DIF Friends is like the most formative. I think it
always is the biggest deal in the most formative years.
Millie Vanilli was like I was a member of Columbia House,
(10:09):
which you've talked about. I think we got twelve cassettes
for a penny and then you had to like subscribe
every month. I'm pretty sure I got is the record
Blame it on the rain? The album? Is that the
name of the first Milli Vanilli album, or might just
be Milli Vanilly. Their first album was one of like
I was in fifth grade, I think when I subscribed
to that, and I think I got them, they were
(10:29):
like it was them, Debbie Gibson's Electric Blue and some
other like pop records amongst like Guns N' Roses, Motley Crue, Poison,
like they were the four Like non, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Were you all ordering for the whole family?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
No?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I think that was like you got your own.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Weirdly, I think my parents like that was maybe like
them identifying that, like I was becoming like obsessed with Yeah,
like music was a thing I was like super interested in.
I think I'm sure my mom must have gone to
my dad and been like, well, it's like a penny
and then it's like once a month you gotta pay
like eight dollars seven ninety nine. Penny was a lot
back then, and then's why it was thirty one in
(11:08):
nineteen thirty, nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, yeah, when I was pay with your great grandpa. Yeah,
you were making a lot of pennies back then, I heard.
And it's interesting not giving any of those pennies to
the mic. I would get half a penny.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I would bite it. But then also what was.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Interesting was like that's how your hair turn red. That's
how my hair turn red.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Propper and honestly, the thing that I also think it's
cool that you finally shared with people. Is that that
is that your great grandfather was the is the spoon
man from the titular spoon Man from the Sad Garden.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
And Cornell Vampire always looked great, but he was around
in those clubs too.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
He was Cornell was merely vanilliating my grandpa great.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
He was Milli vanilliatd. He was lip thinking karaoke spoons.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
We haven't even played the song yet.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Let's do it. Which, let's do? Uh? How you pick
dealers you have heard about?
Speaker 1 (12:01):
I just wanted to follow up by saying their first
album was All or Nothing, which is really funny because.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
That's their third song, all on Nothing. It's got to
be I remember that.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Which is actually like really like when you apply that
to what they are, all of us, girl, you know
it's true. Also very funny because it's not true. It's
it's actually boy, you.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Know it's false.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Boy, you know it's false.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Then their next album is the moment of truth that
might have been after and they were like.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I think so. I think so because I think they
I think their rise and fall and we would have
to we would have to go to our sponsor Wiki
Feet about this. But I think their rise and fall
was like pretty I think it was all on that
first record. I'm pretty sure they got like caught on
their first record, like at some public performance or something.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yes, yes, yeah, so they were It was like an
MTV thing because I think Downtown Julie Brown was there
like trying to help cover up, you know, and then
it started looping, like like the record started looping, you know, girl,
you know, yeah, it was like that, and you had
to run off and get it. So if you haven't
seen that clip, you should. I watched it right before.
(13:12):
But I haven't heard the song yet.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
By the way, we also have to at some point.
One of the things we need. We need sponsorship around
Casey's research corner too.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
That's so true. We need that.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean, that would be great if it was Encyclopedia Britannica.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Or brand Cyclopedia Brown as a reference that only people
who are Candice Burg. So which one we do and
which one you want to do?
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I think, girl, you know, it's true. It's the first
one that comes up, and I don't know it. So
I don't know any of these songs, but that's what
I think. But it's up to you.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
No, no, it's not. Girl, you know it's true. Let's go.
It's wow, thank you for bringing me back case. That
(14:07):
was I dude, I forgot about. I definitely spent some
time with that song.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Great.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I love that frame of reference. You're coming at it
already with like, oh my god, I.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Have a question. I don't know which how you listened.
We always we engage differently. Did you have the spoken
word intro the conversation between the guy and the girl?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
You know, I can't. I have the music video, so
I don't think you did.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Then there's an amazing no conversation that happens at the beginning,
which I don't remember. That must not have been like
on the radio edit if you didn't see it in
the music video, but yeah, basically where it's like she's like,
so what are you doing back and he's like, well,
I sat back and thought about the things we used
to do. It really meant a lot to me. You
mean a lot to me. And then she says I
(14:58):
really mean that much to you, and then he says, girl,
you know it's true, and then the song starts. That's
a great preface. So I just want you to know that.
I want the listeners to know that.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I like that a lot, actually, And I wonder who
said that. I wonder if they were like, well, we'll
just have let's have Millie do it.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't think it was Millie Orbanilly. And that's funny,
like their names were something else, right, I'm sure, but
Robin Fab, Robin Fab.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They put out an album for real with them singing
after all, this called Robin Fab but the originally the
real singers.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And let's get this.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
One is named Brad Howell, who's like an older dude
that you're like, Okay, I can see why they didn't
like push this dude because he's not like a pop
you know, kind.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Of he's not like a Matinee, idol whatever.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
The other guy's name is John Davis from Korn. Jonathan Davis.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
It's this was a teenage Jonathan Davis from Corn.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
The same though, right like those those two yeah right,
like I was David Matthews.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
But they do do the same.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Jonathan Davis walk so that the guy who does could run.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
What what that's the down with the sickness guy Jonathan Davis. Well,
first of all, yes, Jonathan Davis walks into a bar, No,
Jonathan Davis.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Walk My grandpa's there playing.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, and this spoo man is there, Jonathan Davis walked.
So the guy from whatever that band is disturbed or something.
They could run but teenage Jonathan Davis walked. So, you know,
I don't know what could we say like in sync
if this is teenage Jonathan Dave.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
So you're saying, but Milli Vanilli, right, yeah, yeah, So
this is late eighties, right, So.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Eighty nine I would pray, get eighty nine into ninety
is that right?
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah, But let me ask you if New Kids on the.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Block totally happening at the same time.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Same time or before, probably slightly before.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
I want to say, New Kids on the Block was
eighty eight, started in eighty eight, and probably like Real
Peek was eighty eight to ninety, is what I would bet.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And then what about like new Edition?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
New Edition was a little before, right, I would say
a new Edition was like mid late mid eighties that starts.
I bet eighty six eighty seven, like second half of
the eighties, as I bet. I think a New Edition
was for sure before New Kids on the Block. I
think I think so too. I'm just kind of doing
a quick search. Yeah, new edition is early, like eighty
four is cool it now? Which isn't incredible? Wow? That
(17:33):
was that was as early as eighty four.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Mister telephone man is also eighty four.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That's as they were way before then. That's like Bobby
Brown's like fifteen years old or something, right.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
And yeah, no, yeah for sure. And now those are
written by other people, clearly, and that's not an issue. Yes,
in my opinion, for this, for this landscape, their children.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
I don't think it's an issue at this point in
any Like, people write songs for people sometimes, like fucking
Willie Nelson wrote Crazy for Patsy Klein that people write
songs for people. It's part of the thing. But my
Frank Sinatra never wrote a word in his life.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Stop, don't even tell me that he's the goat. But
talk to me about how you feel about what Milli Vanilli,
what they tried to pull off, right, like, is it
does it feel like exception to you?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Are you over it? Like? Does it not really matter?
How did you feel at the time.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
I don't know if at the time I was ten,
so at the time I probably was just starting to
form very nascent opinions around like authenticity, Like I'm sure
I thought like Axel Rose was more authentic than Millie
Vanilli because he was like rougher and a little less
(18:41):
like seemed like he was less like playing by the rules.
And if you heard him sing live, like his voice
sounded a little different to how it sounded on the
it sounded like him, but you could tell it was
like live imperfect. And I think you start to form
around that age, like very early ideas about what cool is,
what matters, which, of course then is like that stuff is.
(19:02):
So I'm using the word revolutionary like literally like it's
revolving so quickly, getting away from so quickly that of
course within two years about Axel Rose was like a
ridiculous dinosaur.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And but but he would have saang it girl, girl,
you know it's truely you My friends and I love
to add the Axel things like true.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Love that shit. Yeah, it would a lot of like
yeah at the end too. Yeah. He also does a
lot of those like ha yeah, yea yeah, yeah, he
loves that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, that's exactly like does Bens.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
He loves it. He can't get enough. No, I think,
I mean, I think, uh, what I think about it now,
because of course it was totally sacrificial lamb bullshit by
the music industry, the music it's like they fooled Arista
Records or whoever. It's like they fooled the producer. It's
(20:12):
not like they fooled like everyone who was involved in
this becoming like a platinum confection knew the whole fucking
time and then they threw them under the fucking bus
when it happened. And that's what my takeaway from it
is is it is yet enough to me, it's like
yet another iteration of too probably like young I don't
(20:38):
know a ton of but I'm sure there's like a
fucking mountain Goats or Sophi and Stephen Records see Stephen's
record in the Story of Millie Vinili. I'm sure. I
bet it's like two like kids without a lot of
money that were like, I don't know, probably probably part
of like the club scene somewhere, and they were like
in great shape. They looked great with no shirts on
or and tight fitting clothes or whatever. They looked cool.
(21:00):
They become old shoulder pads. That is true that those
were the days, and then those were the day ya
and then Yeah, and then they get this opportunity and yeah,
like it's like fucking boogie Nights or something, you know
(21:22):
what I mean, Like it's or I guess, but I
mean he was really doing it. But there's like something
about it that's just so like classic American entertainment tragedy
story where then they like get to this position and
I'm sure the further and further they got they had
to feel like, yo, someone's gonna find out at some point.
(21:43):
And I don't remember at any point do I remember,
Like I mean, I don't have to go back and look,
but what I really remember being something people were like
kind of scandalized by and really being this like these
talentless and yet like they deceived the American public. And
of course what I think from that about that now
is that that was an industrial deceit through and.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Through the beyond industry plant beyond that well.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Great complicit not only even complicit, like they they did it.
Do you think they went too far?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I just will just button button that up by
saying That's the thing that I take away from it
is actually like it is yet another iteration of the
like all of the different ways that there's just like
so much blood in the soil with the music industries,
like some things it does.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Some people get really mad with any lip syncing, and
I don't. It depends on what it is, right, Like
so like the super Bowl, I think you're like not
actually allowed to play the instruments like they have to
because of like wind and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
So like and like reverberation, I.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Think people were like mad at like the Chili Peppers
for like not playing like the actual instruments, but I
think they were told like there were never no one
does like you're not like allowed to like you're just.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Like Top of the Pops in the UK or something like,
no one's actually playing.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Live and it's really just a celebration of your music
if you get that opportunity. But I think that maybe
it's fifty to fifty with singing or at least like
and you know, maybe you know more than I do
about like I think often like a singer will get
to the venue early, record their vocal in that place.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
For something like the super Bowl, something like super Bowl,
and then play that.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
So it's at least like it seems like it's it's
it's in that universe, not like it's in a studio somewhere.
I mean, nowadays they might be able to just take
your track from something else and make it sound like
that with like you know.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Effects and things. But it doesn't really bother me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Do I think it's cooler when you see a Beyonce
or a Lady Gaga that's actually singing you know they are,
and they're.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Like Kendrick Lamar, like breathlessly rapping very verbally dexterous things
for twenty five minutes while running around a football field.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, I give it more points, but I don't think
I subtract that many points. If I see someone who's
especially like a like if Katy Perry is lip sinking,
I don't really care. I kind of think like, what
has been given to me this from part of this
package is like these pop sensibilities, and for it to
be the best version of it with dancing and choreography
(24:23):
and a shark costume for Katy Perry, I'm like mandatory.
I'm like, this is all part of the thing, and
I'm cool with that, you know, But I do want
on the record it to be Katy Perry's voice, and
I kind of don't want it to be too auto tuned.
That's my other sort of that.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Ship has kind of I think, oh yeah, I actually
think it's like as so to unpack some of those things.
I'm not sure you would. That makes sense to me,
Like I don't really know what happens at a thing
like the super Bowl if people go there and like
I think a blend and it seems like I've seen
certain performances there where it's like very clear that the
person's just like one hundred percent lip syncing, and then
(25:07):
there's some mix where the sometimes people sing, sometimes people
it's like some kind of hybridized things. Sometimes it does
sound like they're there. It looks like they're lip syncing too,
in an alternative performance of the vocal. You know what
I mean, Like they're doing like what you suggested, the
only like semi relevant analogous personal experience I've ever had.
(25:29):
This might surprise our listeners and you what. I have
not played at the super Bowl halftime show.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
But I did do the post you did the post
show and the pose.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah yah, I did the pre well, I did the
pre in the post, I did the end the post.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You did shows before the super Bowl and after the
super Bowl. Like even if it was days later.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I've done shows pre and post almost every Super Bowl
since since like nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Which is in I mean, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Good streak, Meryl streak. But I did I do I
played the national land them at City Field before in
September of twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I don't wait, wait, how do I not know the
fact about you?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Maybe I told you and you forgot. Maybe I never
told Probably you never told me. That is so I'll
send you the VID. But it was that was that
was definitely like a live performance year sixteen September of
twenty sixteen. Yes, did you do it?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
That?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
There was I did? I said, yeah, Actually I didn't.
I mean, I have so many there's so many borderline
later Chris things. I could talk about about that, but
we have to keep it on the chance. But I
will just say that on.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Gone.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
No, I like.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Actually, like I talking about the national anthem, like now
we've entered Kem's Patriot Zone, which is sponsored by US Auto.
But yeah, no, I I that was a thing where
(27:00):
I had the tiniest like taste of what those people
contend with because it's wild, like you do it with
any I did it with in your monitors. It was
a live performance. I'd worked out an arrangement on acoustic
guitar and vocal that was like somewhat like what I
might do, but you're in a bowl. It's forty one
(27:21):
thousand capacity stadium and you're standing like by the pitchers mound,
and it was completely surreal to the extent that it
actually didn't even feel It didn't even feel like it
was really happening in a sense. And what it sounded
like why you have to do it with in ears
is because of the reverberation. Yeah, like there's a there's
a natural delay, it's distance and scope that is just
(27:45):
like like you have to keep the in ears to
actually be like I don't know if like this is
a very niche reference to some degree, but like four
A D Records, it sounded to me like an old
Night or eighties nineties like Pixies, Cock two Twins Cock,
whatever you say that that band, and like or like
House Painters, like so much reverb that you could like
like I was like this like acorn in the middle
(28:07):
of this like field of reverb. So I do understand
from a technical perspective, why if you were doing something
I was doing two minutes once. Ever, if you were
doing something that was to whoever was there and it
was the national anthem, if you were doing like your
five biggest hits in a medley with dancing and whatever
in front of like eighty thousand people and one hundred
(28:29):
million people watching at home, you wanted to just be
the most refined version of the thing as is possible,
and whatever needs to happen from a you know whatever,
Like I don't know, the word corners might need to
be cut. If it's like I'm not really a single.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Socials, it must go on. It needs to be a
good product and packaged well. There's like a lot at Steak.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I don't give a shit at all about people lip
syncing and pop music. And I think it's partly because
of what happened to these guys very quickly to give
the song a chance, such an effective banger we cand
pop song. They're like love that. They didn't even worry
about a bridge, love that. They were just like, let's
get in and out in three minutes, like that style
of late eighties rapt I.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Love it like it takes me back. I love that
stuff and the music. I really liked. It's really like simple,
but it's that simple layering that's almost like minimalist, like almost.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Like drums cool big, like yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
The parts go all so well together, like almost like
a Bazaran song, you know, like a like a David
Bazon song where it's like I would.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Love to hear him sing this.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
I know.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, it's like minimal and like simple lines, but when
you put them all together, it becomes this complex thing.
And then there's that part towards the end where it's
like that like.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Oh yeah, it was like the production choices, like that
deep rumbling synth thing, and then the way they cut
up that towards the end, like what stands as a
bridge almost like it's like because it's I think sometimes
of a bridge is like a thing that slightly augments
in one space if it lieu of like a like
a traditional Lennon McCartney middle eight or whatever. Sometimes there's
(30:05):
like there's this thing at the end where they just
do this like like in the background, it's like they're
doing all this like interesting chopping and editing. It's a
well produced, well executed dance pop radio song, and it's
a minor key but major in theme, which is kind
of cool. It's like a like a worshipful love song
that's in a minor key, which is kind of interesting.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
You were talking about before it was like a beat swap.
And I've been listening to this song because Mariy likes it.
It's called Pretty Girl Rock by Kerry Hilson. It's like
fifteen years ago, and it's good. It's a good song alone.
It's it's just like one of those fun songs that
also kids just like. But it has a great beat
swap in it, like where it's like the exact same
(30:48):
lyrics and stuff while you're talking about and then they
just change the the the the melody of the beat
with like the same drums though, and it's such an
effective fun switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Right right.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Another song that kind of does it.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
It's different because there's a that song uh to p
Diddy song rest in Peace, and it's all about the
Benjamin's Oh there's a beat swap to when Biggie goes
oh yeah verse is like the beat completely changes and
it's so fun. So like anytime there's something that feels
like a real just change, it's it's exciting totally.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
And this is slightly subtle, Yes, yes, just because there's
that's true, that one's great, but there's it's just it
feels like they like make a couple of like production
choices to kind of just like slightly it's almost like
they faint in that direction. So like but but as
far as like authenticity, like it's funny. I think what
(31:46):
this opened up was a much and I think it
almost circled around later that was like I think they
really were like sacrificial lambs, like did the punishment fit
the crime? Like how much are they even to be
blamed for the crime? Is it even a crime? And
then I you know, it makes me think of like
I took in college, you know, like there was a
(32:08):
path that I did not ultimately pursue that was like,
you know, maybe being the kind of person that was
like studying like like journalism slash scholarship about music a
different kind of like like which is I don't know,
maybe that executes itself in a fractional way in our conversations,
but there was like the way like a certain kind
of thoughtfulness about modes of like pop construction or whatever.
(32:29):
And one of the things I do remember fully talking
about in this Woman on a Heed Kasabians class was authenticity,
and I remember her being like, why do you who's
more authentic, Bob Dylan or Britney Spears, And of course,
like most of the class is like who had an
awareness of the two? Was like Bob Dylan and I
remember her being like, why his name's Robert Zimmerman. Everything
he said about his biographical history is made up, like
(32:52):
you know, like she went through all of the things,
and it's like, why do we think because someone's standing
there in like a jeans and a T shirt holding
an acoustic guitar, that's more authentic. Britney Spears was like
Mickey mouse Kid, who never made any bones about wanting
to be anything other than a pop singer, dancer, entertainer.
And that's what this is. I know, we're coming up
to our time.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Beautiful, that's you articulated that so well, or at least
a teacher did new million Vanilla?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Did you fab your fab?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Dudea rob all the day then ended up being the
drummer for the Strokes Fab at least he had like
a second career. He does actually play drums in that sometimes.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Actually some people think that it's drum machine and some
people think it's ruel, but it's not. He's just that's
how he learned. He learned from drum Machine little that's
a little fab history. That's true. The yeah, so yeah,
we don't have a ton of time. But I would
say that the song itself is great. I you know,
I give it all the chances because it's like a
you know, confection sugar pop. It's great, and I'm glad.
(33:57):
I never I'm glad I got to experience it for
the first time. I'm like, here, it's really good. I
want to hear the other songs like rare is it
like sometimes you know, we hear MoMA number five or something,
We're like, okay, cool, But I don't really want to.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Get like I'm good on Louis Bega.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, but I want to hear I want to hear
some more of these songs.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Memory serves. If memory serves, blame it on the rain
is maybe even better. Blame it on the rain is
like a really.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
That had a song about so I think my friend
told me about that. Is that a song in that
you're crying and you're letting the you're letting the rain
make you cover your tears.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I would have to go back and look.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think you I would know that's I wish it
would rain.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But that's that.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
But that's my person. That's a man who's crying so
much that he's like, I wish it would rain to
cover my face?
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Is that Phil Collins girl, I wish it would rain?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
Temptations?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Originally maybe maybe the oh no different, that's a different song.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I always thought blame it on the rain was like
almost like about.
Speaker 3 (34:57):
The rain, blame it on the boogie.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I thought it was like almost like life can be
unpredictable and chaotic and painful, and sometimes we can't predict
like it's unpredictable, and sometimes there's nothing to pin to
blame on. So what do you do? Blame it on
the rain like something almost like that. But I haven't listened.
I haven't exigeted the texts in about Crisp thirty eight
(35:25):
at this point.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh wait, right, I'm a forty five, you're much older.
You're my great grandpa's age, And I want to wrap
it up by just saying that my great grandpa he's
It's it's a mixed bag, right, like you hear two
different stories, and that's that's million Vanilli for you, you know,
find your own, find your own reason of why, you
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Your own adventure to Blame it on the rain, Blame
it on your great cunch pennies in half, eat them
fucking sing, or don't I don't care,
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