April 15, 2024 • 9 mins
WHAT NOW THAT IRAN ATTACKED ISRAEL? I've got Cliff May from the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies on at 12:30 to talk about this weekend attacks by Iran against Israel. What will Israel do in response? They have said they will "exact a price" from Iran, but apparently will do so without American help as Biden has said he will not support Israel if they issue a retaliatory strike. I'm Interested to see what Cliff says about this, as the Iranian people are celebrating in the streets over an attack that did almost no damage and hurt a couple of people and a child.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
One of my favorite experts on democracyand other stuff is Cliff May from the
Foundation of Democracies, Cliff Big Imean, I want to say big doings
this past weekend, but was itreally? Was it really a big doing?
Oh my gosh. Absolutely, we'retalking. We're talking about Iran from
its own soil and from the soilof others, launching hundreds of very big
(00:25):
rockets, missiles, cruise, missiles, drones, swarm attack on Israel with
the intent of killing Israelis as partof what has been for years and avowedly
and openly genocidal war that it hasbeen waging against Israel up till now,
utilizing proxies mostly Arabs. Let Arabsdie for this cause rather than people in
(00:49):
Iran. But yes, this wasIt is a remarkable that there were no
injuries or death, with the exceptionof one Israeli Arab girl who got whoever
now they got hit is now inthe hospital. Amazing that they didn't.
I don't think this is what theIranians expected. They expected, as Russia
(01:10):
has been doing with Ukraine, thatmissiles would get through and that there would
be parts of Israel burning. Today, this is Israel and Iran or in
a state of war. Listen,I would argue, and I've been arguing
this since nineteen seventy nine. Asyou know, I was there covering the
revolution, and this was an Islamicrevolution, and it was very clear death
(01:30):
to America as well as death toIsrael. Israel is a title country size
of New Jersey, maybe ten millionpeople, maybe six or seven million of
them are Jews. It's easier toattack them. But listen, Iran has
attacked Americans many times in many places, including the Washington You know, they
tried to kill a Saudi ambassador ata fancy restaurant here in d C.
(01:55):
They have killed Americans recently in Jordan. They have they are They see us
as their enemy, as the greatSatan. We need to understand what's going
on here. And yes, thiswas this could have this was a big
deal. It's is amazing that Israelgood. But it's not the last battle
in this war. See now,Cliff, I gotta tell you so,
you know, I have a nephewthere, so obviously I watched this with
(02:16):
great interest as it was unfolding,because it happened in the middle of the
afternoon here. But knowing now whatI'm seeing in the past couple of days
where Iran has essentially telegraphed to anyonewho would listen that they were going to
attack Israel. And we knew,and we told Israel they're going to attack
you. And yet they send superslow cruise missiles instead of ballistic missiles.
(02:38):
They send drones. They they theythen before everything even lands in Israel,
they put out a tweet that's like, Okay, we're done. This is
it. We're we're settled. Now, we're fine, we don't need to
move any forward. This feels likeit was designed to fail in my estimation,
and you know more about this thanI do, but they had to
(02:58):
know that sending missiles of that sortand drones were going to be intercepted,
if not by Israel's allies, thenby the Iron Dome itself, which is
proven to be very, very efficient. And the places where they did actually
get through were you know, Israelimilitary installations, save the one where the
(03:20):
Arab Israeli child was hurt. Andmy question is this I got to I
got to say, I think this, this to me felt more like posturing
for the people at home, forHesbel and Hamas to say, look,
we have your backed. But youjust made the point perfectly. They don't
want to be in an active fightwith Israel. They want to let all
the Arabs die, not the Persians, right, So I mean, how
(03:44):
what happens next in your estimation?Well, so a couple of points.
One is many. I don't thinkit's crazy theory that this was a performative,
that they had to do something inresponse to the taking down, the
elimination in Da Mascus of the eyeof the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Force commander or
(04:04):
Shiria and Lebanon, who is coordinating all those attacks working including on a
ten seven attack, and that theywanted to do something and show. But
I also think they wanted they wanted, you know, a city or to
to burn again. I think theythought some of these missiles, drones,
cruise missiles would get what would breakthrough. It was always better, you know,
(04:25):
and then they'd say, you seewhat happened. I don't think they
want isn't necessary Israel to be attacking. But by the way, I don't
we don't know for totally sure thatit's over. They may say we were
humilitated. Not even a few missilesgot through. We didn't take down one
military base. We didn't take downDemona, where Israel has the nuclear facilities.
We have to do something more thanthat. It's look, any of
(04:48):
that's possible. They remember after PresidentTrump ordered the killing of Custom Solomoni,
who was also the top leader ofthe Ierogy, s could force the expeditionary
force overseas commanding the rands what Iwould call foreign legions. What did they
What did they do? They attacka number of American military bases in the
(05:12):
Middle East. They caused people tohave traumatic brain injury, They did damage.
They didn't do everything they could do. They you'd want to call that
performative. I wouldn't. But Ican understand that theory. But there's under
But also do understand their their basicstrategy for trying to eliminate Israel from the
face of the earth and exterminate Israelisis what it could call the ring of
(05:38):
Fire strategy, and that is theyhave Hesboa in Lebanon, and they have
Hamas and Gaza, and they havethe Huthis in Yemen, and they have
various groups in the West Bank,and they have Shea malicious In other words,
there's encircling them a lot of peoplethought that this attack would come but
(05:58):
not from Mournean soil, and thatmay have been maybe that was perposal,
and maybe that was a mistake,because Israelis can now say, believe me,
they're thinking about this. All right, they've attacked us from there,
soll now we can certainly attack themon their soil. Do we want to?
If so, what do we wantto hit? What strategy we worth
our while to? How much comeand get the Americans to support us?
(06:21):
We know as and Biden is tellingus not to do anything that hey,
let's call it a draw at thispoint. But we also know that this
regime is building nuclear weapons. Whatif they were to do what they just
did, but they with nukes.Yeah, and that's what happened, and
one of them. What if oneof those nukes were to get through Akimedjod
(06:42):
you remember him? He ye,he said, Israel is a one nuclear
bomb country. In other words,we can exterminate with one nuclear bomb.
Yes, after that happens, Israeliscan fire nukes at Tehran or whatever.
But these really don't want to dothat. There's really don't person. Well
that's cold comfort. Secondly, theIsraelies know that the most pro Israeli country
(07:04):
in the Middle East and pro Americancompany country in the Middle East after Israel
is Iran. The people of Iran, you've seen this and very you have
soccer matches and they say, oh, support Hamage and they get up and
they boot in the sands and theygo out in the streets and they chant,
(07:25):
we are we do not want tofight for Hamas right for Palestinian Again,
it's a whole other conversation whether whenyou're fighting for Hamas, you're fighting
for what's good for Palestinians when almasUse is innocent Palestinians as human shields.
But you see that, you seethese protests all over America and a lot
of remedia saying here is a proPalestinian marches that are shutting down traffic.
(07:49):
Yeah, Gaza was not such abad place on October sixth, look at
the pictures of what it looked like. Terrible place. Now is who's fourth
is that it is the fault ofHamas and Hamas's patron in Tehran. But
you know what, Cliff, wejust saw some polling data that had been
done in Gaza and among Palestinians,and there's support for Hamas according to this
(08:11):
poll, and I mean maybe itwas done by Hamas is still very strong.
So well, that's yes. Andand the only way that is going
to that is not going to change, will be enhanced if the perception is
that Hamas has won the war inGhaza. If Hamas is seen as losing
the war in Gaza, then Ithink I could be wrong that support for
(08:35):
Hamas will change because people will say, look what they brought us, what
did we get out of? Ourlife is ruined? Our children's lives are
going to be much harder. Whywhat did we what did we get?
We're not going to march on Jerusalemor Tel Aviv or hyper that's not going
to happen. Maybe this isn't theright way to go. Maybe not again,
not because they're going to necessarily lovethe Israelis, because I think this
(08:58):
is bad for them. If theGermans. Look if the Nazis had not
been defeated in World War Two,and Roosevelt said, I mean, I'm
not making a deal with him.I'm not having a ceasefire. We're going
to insist on unconditioned surrender. Youthink there wouldn't be we wouldn't be that
Germany would not be a Nazi countrytoday if he did eighty percent of the
(09:20):
job rather than one hundred percent,which is why Israelis believe they had much
more work to do in Gaza,and I think they do. They have
to decapacitate um US as a militaryforce and as a governing policy. Amen
to that, there's no chance,Cliff May. I appreciate your insights.
As always, Cliff is with theFoundation for the Defensive Democracies. You can
(09:43):
read his columns in a myriad ofplaces, including the Washington Times. Cliff
is good to talk to you again, my friend. Always good to talk
to you. All right, thankyou. That's Cliff May.
One of my favorite experts on democracyand other stuff is Cliff May from the
Foundation of Democracies, Cliff Big Imean, I want to say big doings
this past weekend, but was itreally? Was it really a big doing?
Oh my gosh. Absolutely, we'retalking. We're talking about Iran from
its own soil and from the soilof others, launching hundreds of very big
(00:25):
rockets, missiles, cruise, missiles, drones, swarm attack on Israel with
the intent of killing Israelis as partof what has been for years and avowedly
and openly genocidal war that it hasbeen waging against Israel up till now,
utilizing proxies mostly Arabs. Let Arabsdie for this cause rather than people in
(00:49):
Iran. But yes, this wasIt is a remarkable that there were no
injuries or death, with the exceptionof one Israeli Arab girl who got whoever
now they got hit is now inthe hospital. Amazing that they didn't.
I don't think this is what theIranians expected. They expected, as Russia
(01:10):
has been doing with Ukraine, thatmissiles would get through and that there would
be parts of Israel burning. Today, this is Israel and Iran or in
a state of war. Listen,I would argue, and I've been arguing
this since nineteen seventy nine. Asyou know, I was there covering the
revolution, and this was an Islamicrevolution, and it was very clear death
(01:30):
to America as well as death toIsrael. Israel is a title country size
of New Jersey, maybe ten millionpeople, maybe six or seven million of
them are Jews. It's easier toattack them. But listen, Iran has
attacked Americans many times in many places, including the Washington You know, they
tried to kill a Saudi ambassador ata fancy restaurant here in d C.
(01:55):
They have killed Americans recently in Jordan. They have they are They see us
as their enemy, as the greatSatan. We need to understand what's going
on here. And yes, thiswas this could have this was a big
deal. It's is amazing that Israelgood. But it's not the last battle
in this war. See now,Cliff, I gotta tell you so,
you know, I have a nephewthere, so obviously I watched this with
(02:16):
great interest as it was unfolding,because it happened in the middle of the
afternoon here. But knowing now whatI'm seeing in the past couple of days
where Iran has essentially telegraphed to anyonewho would listen that they were going to
attack Israel. And we knew,and we told Israel they're going to attack
you. And yet they send superslow cruise missiles instead of ballistic missiles.
(02:38):
They send drones. They they theythen before everything even lands in Israel,
they put out a tweet that's like, Okay, we're done. This is
it. We're we're settled. Now, we're fine, we don't need to
move any forward. This feels likeit was designed to fail in my estimation,
and you know more about this thanI do, but they had to
(02:58):
know that sending missiles of that sortand drones were going to be intercepted,
if not by Israel's allies, thenby the Iron Dome itself, which is
proven to be very, very efficient. And the places where they did actually
get through were you know, Israelimilitary installations, save the one where the
(03:20):
Arab Israeli child was hurt. Andmy question is this I got to I
got to say, I think this, this to me felt more like posturing
for the people at home, forHesbel and Hamas to say, look,
we have your backed. But youjust made the point perfectly. They don't
want to be in an active fightwith Israel. They want to let all
the Arabs die, not the Persians, right, So I mean, how
(03:44):
what happens next in your estimation?Well, so a couple of points.
One is many. I don't thinkit's crazy theory that this was a performative,
that they had to do something inresponse to the taking down, the
elimination in Da Mascus of the eyeof the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Force commander or
(04:04):
Shiria and Lebanon, who is coordinating all those attacks working including on a
ten seven attack, and that theywanted to do something and show. But
I also think they wanted they wanted, you know, a city or to
to burn again. I think theythought some of these missiles, drones,
cruise missiles would get what would breakthrough. It was always better, you know,
(04:25):
and then they'd say, you seewhat happened. I don't think they
want isn't necessary Israel to be attacking. But by the way, I don't
we don't know for totally sure thatit's over. They may say we were
humilitated. Not even a few missilesgot through. We didn't take down one
military base. We didn't take downDemona, where Israel has the nuclear facilities.
We have to do something more thanthat. It's look, any of
(04:48):
that's possible. They remember after PresidentTrump ordered the killing of Custom Solomoni,
who was also the top leader ofthe Ierogy, s could force the expeditionary
force overseas commanding the rands what Iwould call foreign legions. What did they
What did they do? They attacka number of American military bases in the
(05:12):
Middle East. They caused people tohave traumatic brain injury, They did damage.
They didn't do everything they could do. They you'd want to call that
performative. I wouldn't. But Ican understand that theory. But there's under
But also do understand their their basicstrategy for trying to eliminate Israel from the
face of the earth and exterminate Israelisis what it could call the ring of
(05:38):
Fire strategy, and that is theyhave Hesboa in Lebanon, and they have
Hamas and Gaza, and they havethe Huthis in Yemen, and they have
various groups in the West Bank,and they have Shea malicious In other words,
there's encircling them a lot of peoplethought that this attack would come but
(05:58):
not from Mournean soil, and thatmay have been maybe that was perposal,
and maybe that was a mistake,because Israelis can now say, believe me,
they're thinking about this. All right, they've attacked us from there,
soll now we can certainly attack themon their soil. Do we want to?
If so, what do we wantto hit? What strategy we worth
our while to? How much comeand get the Americans to support us?
(06:21):
We know as and Biden is tellingus not to do anything that hey,
let's call it a draw at thispoint. But we also know that this
regime is building nuclear weapons. Whatif they were to do what they just
did, but they with nukes.Yeah, and that's what happened, and
one of them. What if oneof those nukes were to get through Akimedjod
(06:42):
you remember him? He ye,he said, Israel is a one nuclear
bomb country. In other words,we can exterminate with one nuclear bomb.
Yes, after that happens, Israeliscan fire nukes at Tehran or whatever.
But these really don't want to dothat. There's really don't person. Well
that's cold comfort. Secondly, theIsraelies know that the most pro Israeli country
(07:04):
in the Middle East and pro Americancompany country in the Middle East after Israel
is Iran. The people of Iran, you've seen this and very you have
soccer matches and they say, oh, support Hamage and they get up and
they boot in the sands and theygo out in the streets and they chant,
(07:25):
we are we do not want tofight for Hamas right for Palestinian Again,
it's a whole other conversation whether whenyou're fighting for Hamas, you're fighting
for what's good for Palestinians when almasUse is innocent Palestinians as human shields.
But you see that, you seethese protests all over America and a lot
of remedia saying here is a proPalestinian marches that are shutting down traffic.
(07:49):
Yeah, Gaza was not such abad place on October sixth, look at
the pictures of what it looked like. Terrible place. Now is who's fourth
is that it is the fault ofHamas and Hamas's patron in Tehran. But
you know what, Cliff, wejust saw some polling data that had been
done in Gaza and among Palestinians,and there's support for Hamas according to this
(08:11):
poll, and I mean maybe itwas done by Hamas is still very strong.
So well, that's yes. Andand the only way that is going
to that is not going to change, will be enhanced if the perception is
that Hamas has won the war inGhaza. If Hamas is seen as losing
the war in Gaza, then Ithink I could be wrong that support for
(08:35):
Hamas will change because people will say, look what they brought us, what
did we get out of? Ourlife is ruined? Our children's lives are
going to be much harder. Whywhat did we what did we get?
We're not going to march on Jerusalemor Tel Aviv or hyper that's not going
to happen. Maybe this isn't theright way to go. Maybe not again,
not because they're going to necessarily lovethe Israelis, because I think this
(08:58):
is bad for them. If theGermans. Look if the Nazis had not
been defeated in World War Two,and Roosevelt said, I mean, I'm
not making a deal with him.I'm not having a ceasefire. We're going
to insist on unconditioned surrender. Youthink there wouldn't be we wouldn't be that
Germany would not be a Nazi countrytoday if he did eighty percent of the
(09:20):
job rather than one hundred percent,which is why Israelis believe they had much
more work to do in Gaza,and I think they do. They have
to decapacitate um US as a militaryforce and as a governing policy. Amen
to that, there's no chance,Cliff May. I appreciate your insights.
As always, Cliff is with theFoundation for the Defensive Democracies. You can
(09:43):
read his columns in a myriad ofplaces, including the Washington Times. Cliff
is good to talk to you again, my friend. Always good to talk
to you. All right, thankyou. That's Cliff May.
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