05-30-24 FULL SHOW - It's 1984 Book Club Day! Plus Adorable Fuzzy Friends

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I'm your host for the next threehours. Mandy Connell and I am joined,
of course, by my right handman. We call him Anthony Rodriguez,
you can call him a rod andI have a bunch of stuff on
the blog today, and I'm superexcited because today is it. Today is
book Club Day. We are goingto talk about nineteen eighty four in the
two o'clock hour, and I amstoked. But I've got a bunch of

(00:22):
stuff on the blog today, solet's get to it. Go to mandy'sblog
dot com. That's mandy'sblog dot com. Look for the headline in the latest
posts section that says five point thirtytwenty four blog It's nineteen eighty four book
Club Day plus adorable fuzzy friends.Click on that and here are the headlines

(00:44):
you will find within. I thinkyou're in office half of American all with
ships and clipments A say that's cornto press plat today on the blog why
nineteen eighty four matters today? Iget to see some pups today. Lauren
Bobert may have defanged herself. Doyou think they totaled it? Yes?
The justice system is one sided.Never forget your bear spray people how to

(01:07):
render your defense moot. There wasa debate last night for CD four more
on the takeover the Egypt border byIsrael. Will another tape pop up to
haunt Trump? People are already wornout by the presidential election. A lawsuit
over elephants at Cheyenne Mountain Zoo Goldenshuts down tubers. Does DPS deserve your
money? The Supreme Court rules infavor of the NRA. Hard boiled eggs

(01:32):
aren't for everyone? What are thestroke signs for younger people? A dying
empire led by bad people? Yourtaber refunds are going to Hollywood, Colorado
hot springs that cater to families.A majority of Americans say Trump was indicted
to keep him for winning. Whydo people act like idiots around wedding stuff?
Getting engaged is different now, Bidenversus the teleprompter. Candae Owens on

(01:56):
Black History and Pride Month, andthose are the headline. He's on the
blog at Manday's blog dot com.And Ross and I just had this little
kibbittz on the exchange. It isa slow news week, and that is
good on the one hand, becauseit knows means that no major disasters are
befalling us. That's an upside.But when you're a talk show host and

(02:22):
you've got three hours to fill andit's a slow news week, you're like,
and today we're gonna talk about thingsget caught in your teeth. I'll
start copy seeds. Who's next?Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Spinach?
Do I hear spinach? Yes?I do? Anyone else? Bacon bacon,

(02:42):
and I'm gonna get three hours outof that. I'm just kidding,
No, I'm not. I mean, poppy seeds really do get in your
teeth. It's dramatic and traumatic onoccasion. Anybody else had to go to
the dentist over a popcorn kernels stuckin your gums? Anyone any raise?
No, it's a thing, It'sokay. The que hasn't worked with me
again today, and she's like,what, No. My dentist in Florida,

(03:05):
I still love him, Doctor AlanRambos. He's no doctor Larry O'Neil
at Running Creek Dental. But Ihad to go see my dentists because I
had just horrible, horrible gum pain. And I, y'all eyebrush, I
floss, I have a water pick. I have very healthy gums. I
have very healthy choppers. So Iwas concerned about this and I went in
and doctor Rambos is poking around inthere. It's like excruciatingly painful. And

(03:28):
then he pulls out a little popcornskin, you know, a little un
just that little brown thing. Andhe looked at me and said, don't
eat popcorn. And I was like, that's not gonna happen. Popcorn is
my favorite snack. So I'll seeyou next time, Doc, and I
to be clear, I have neverhad that experience again. Ayron, What

(03:49):
are some of the favorite things toget caught in your teeth? What I
mean, We're just gonna start here. It's a slow news day, Just
roll with it. What's that one? Chocolate? The little milk duds?
Oh, well, that's the caramelgets in there. That's like there's snacks
that you eat because you're hungry now, but you might be hungry later,
right, Caramel is one of thosebecause you're going to have some in your

(04:10):
teeth. Corn stuff corn, Yes, I got a floss right after corn
on the cob popcorn. Corn Cornis really a nuisance food when you think
about it. Yeah, for allits diversity, it's it's a nuisance.
It doesn't filter through your body,right, fine, surprise, Well it
Filter's just fine. It does filter. What I'm saying, Is it filters

(04:30):
like it's supposed to. You knowwhat I'm saying, because then you get
to see it again, You getto visit your corn twice. Just sound
too, Mandy, says this texter. You can always text us at the
koa common spirit health text line,Mandy. All the media is holding their
breath waiting for the Trump verdict.Yes they are, they absolutely are.
But until that happens, a littlebit thin in the news department. But

(04:54):
that's okay, because I got twobig things planned today. First of all,
we will be welcoming back to theprogram, the Intrepid producer. He
will be coming in today at aboutone forty five, and he is going
to participate in our first ever bookclub, happening in the two o'clock hour.
And as I was getting ready forthe book club, ah nuts,

(05:15):
I left all the notes that Imade for the book club sitting on my
desk at home, and I justrealized it. Man, Anyway, It's
fine. I can handle it withoutit. Not only is Dave the Intrepid
going to be in because he's alreadyfound specific instances of that prove we are
living through nineteen eighty four right now. And then I'm also going to be

(05:41):
joined by doctor Michael Sheldon. Heis a professor at Indiana State University and
the author of the authorized Biography ofGeorge Orwell. So he's going to be
able to give us some insight intowhat Orwell was thinking when he wrote the
book Who George Orwell was? Imean, he was a socialist at heart,
and so I'm interested to get alittle background on George Orwell from doctor

(06:01):
Sheldon. So that's all coming upat two p m. And then at
one o'clock today we're gonna have somefolks from Max Fund in. And this
is such a selfish guest on mypart and I just want you to lean
in. But if you follow meon social media, we will have some
great photographs of these little pooches thatthey're bringing in. Because I was like,
hey, Max fund you guys havea no kill shelter. You know
what would be awesome if you camein and brought little puppies for me to

(06:25):
play with during my show. Yay, So that's gonna be awesome. That's
happening at one o'clock. I justwant to thank all of you who,
in the spirit of a slow newsweek, have participated in the what gets
caught in your teeth topic on thetext line, I will rip through those
right now. I hate getting flawsstuck in my teeth, says the text
I don't know what to use toget it out. Well, you use

(06:46):
more flaws, and I hate thattoo. Mandy Korn's little corn is nature's
little push broom a rod. That'swhat this texture says. Pomegranite seeds ug,
That's why I don't eat. There'sa lot of seeds in fruit,
BlackBerry seeds. See you people aremaking my point. Beef jerky gets stuck
in your teeth? What kind ofbeef jerky are you eating? What is

(07:10):
it made out of? And Icannot read this one, sir or madam.
The last one that's not nice andinappropriate for the radio, So I
don't send that. Yeah, uh, Mandy as a popcorn whore, which
I am not. I am avery particular popcorn lover. You gotta try

(07:32):
Troyer lady finger popcorn. They're verysmall when they pop and there's tons of
little crunchies at the bottom. Unbelievable. No, I like fluffy popcorn.
I don't like those hard little piecesat the bottom, which is why I
have my popcorn maker, which doesan amazing job at popping all the popcorn.
Celery, Yes, yes, celery, the stringy part of celery.

(07:57):
Blueberry skins. Why would you meetthat you're eating blueberry skins? That sounds
terrible, absolutely terrible. Anyway,we do have a lot of other stuff
on the blog today, and Iwant to jump in with something. I've
got a couple things related to thefourth Congressional District on the blog today.
I've got audio from last night's debate, the CD four debate that was on

(08:20):
Channel four, and I've got alittle bit of that. It was not
super fiery, but Deborah Flora cameout swinging against Lauren Bobert, and not
in a nasty way, but Ithink in an appropriate way. But I
want to start with a story thatis really petty and small, and it's
not me being petty and small thistime, so I feel like this is

(08:41):
an improvement. But there was anexchange on Twitter between Lauren Bobert and Mayor
Mike Johnston. Lauren Bobert apparently justsaw the Newcomers Playbook, A Guide to
Welcoming Newcomers to Your City, whichis a book written by the City of

(09:01):
Denver to send to other cities totell them how to welcome illegal immigrants to
their town. And in the tweetthat Lauren Bobert sent out, she said,
Denver officials have just released a twentytwo page Newcomers Playbook, a Guide
to Welcoming Newcomers into your city.This is a guide that tells other cities

(09:24):
how to follow the Denver model ofbringing illegals into the city. I wish
I was joking, but this isreality. We need to vote out everyone
in government who refers to illegal aliencriminal invaders as newcomers, and do so
quickly. Our nation is being stolenfrom us and they're complicit. So it's
pretty sassy text message. And bythe way, she's not wrong about that

(09:45):
part of it. Like she's notwrong. The notion that you should call
illegal aliens newcomers is absurd. It'svery new speak, and if you read
nineteen eighty four you know what I'mtalking about. It's a manipulation of the
language that is unnecessary and ridiculous.But Mayor Mike Johnston did not take this

(10:09):
lying down. He tweeted right back. He quote tweeted her even so people
could see what he was referring to, and he tweeted back, did I
forget a section in the playbook aboutnot vaping and getting a handsy at beetlejuice?
We haven't had that issue with anyof our newcomers, but now that
we know you're paying attention, we'lladd it. And I read this,
you guys, and you know I'mnot. I don't have any ill will

(10:33):
towards Lauren Bobert. I just don'twant her to be a very representative from
the fourth Congressional district. But thisone I actually felt sorry for her.
And here's why. It's one thingto be attacked. Was just, you
know, random attacks from someone else, because in this job, I've experienced
that over and over and over again. I mean I just got my my
a really cool anonymous letter about howsomebody was gonna get me fired because I

(10:56):
don't love Donald Trump and David Williams, and I mean, it's just it
was so stupid. It's so stupid, and if you wrote the letters,
shame on you. You should beembarrassed for yourself right now, you really
should be embarrassed. But you getattacked with stuff. And it's one thing
when they're ad hominem attacks coming fromother people, or even when they attack
you on policy or they attack youon your opinion or whatever. I mean.

(11:20):
You get attacked, you handle it, you move on. It's no
big deal. But when you getattacked with your own ammunition, that is
like, eh, that's because that'sa double whammy, right. And unfortunately
for Lauren Bobert, she put herselfin a situation at the DCPA and she

(11:43):
did not show herself in the bestlight and she did some embarrassing things,
all of which were caught on camera. But now she is never going to
be able to outrun that. Nevernever, never, never. And you
know how I know this because Istill get attacked for something that happened in
twenty eleven, twenty eleven by peoplewho are trying to score cheap political points.

(12:11):
But the reality is is I don'tcare at all anymore. But for
the first few years after it happened, everybody's like, oh, what'd you
do, Mandy? I said somethingon the radio in Louisville. I was
using Obama as an example of Americanexceptionalism. And this is the short version
of the story. So I wasusing Obama as an example of a person

(12:31):
who, you know, you canrise to be president of the United States,
being raised by a single mother,by you know, going and doing
all these different things. You don'thave to be like a blue blood,
you don't have to be upper class, you can rise above it. And
I used him as an example ofAmerican exceptionalism. This is the context that
I'm giving you right now, becausecontext is important. And I went to

(12:54):
point out the fact that he isbiracial, and for whatever reason, my
mind could not find I'm the wordbiracial. It just did not exist in
my brain at that point. Iknew the word. I'd used the word
many times before, but at thatmoment in time, and unfortunately, I
said, yes, he was ahalf breed president. Now, to be
clear, I don't know why thatword came out of my mouth, because

(13:16):
in all honesty, in my understanding, that is an insult to someone who
is half Native American and half white. So it did not apply to him
at all. The only thing Ican think, and you guys, I
have spent hours of my life,maybe months at this point, rolling this
around in my head trying to figureout where that word even came from.

(13:41):
And the only thing I could thinkof was that stupid blanking share song which
I had heard like a week before, and it just stuck in my brain.
You know the song I'm talking about. Do we have shares half breed
in the system right now? Dowe have it? Because it's a song
and that's the only way. Butnonetheless, So this happened on a Friday,

(14:03):
right at the end of the show. I came out on Monday immediately
and said, look, no,we don't have it. Okay, we're
not missing anything. And I cameout Monday and said, guys, that
just was not a word. Thatwas the word I would have chosen.
It was just like when you doa show for fifteen hours, sometimes the
right word doesn't come out. AndI apologize as that just really not what
I wanted to say. And obviouslyI was using Obama as a as an

(14:24):
example of American exceptionalism. So,you know, I hope that that it
came through. And there was ablogger in Louisville that just beat me to
death with that story. And itwas already mortified, you know what I
mean. I was already like,oh, Mandy, why did you do
this? And then I spent thenext two and a half years being shot
with that ammunition, and every timesomeone brought it up, I was like,
ah, I just cringed inside causeit was just an unforced error on

(14:48):
my part, and then you know, being bludgeoned with it over and over
and over again. So I actuallyhave a lot of sympathy for Lauren Bobert
in this situation because I think thatLauren Bobert has defanged herself. And let
me explain that Lauren Boebert's stock intrade is the snappy, snarky comment she

(15:09):
has made it her raise on Detra. You know, this is what she
does, This is who she is. It is a mark of her personality.
Right, So now whenever she doesthat, the response is going to
sound just like Mike Johnston's because shegave you know, she walked around with

(15:33):
a plate of bullets on this one. And so now it is going to
be it's going to be really interestingto see how she manages this. Now,
Thomas Massey told me, Congressman ThomasMassey said, she has a great
sense of humor about it, andshe, you know, was suitably contrite
with other members of Congress, andshe jokes about it, makes herself the
butt of jokes about it. Butit wears on you. It will wear

(15:56):
you down. And it got tothe point where I think when I got
here and someone brought it up,I realized I didn't care anymore. I
really didn't care anymore because everything elsein my history would show you that that's
you know, that's not the sortof person that I am. I'm not
going to run around calling people nastynames. I may call them funny names,

(16:17):
but that's for comedy people. That'sfor comedy. So there you go.
Dang, Mayor Jay, what asnarky remark that from the text line,
Yes, beef turkey boys get stuckand it's made of beef. Yeah.
Unfortunately, this texter says, isthis in this culture, you can't

(16:37):
say you made a mistake. Ithas to be a Freudian slip. Sad.
Well, trust me, that wasa mistake, a real big mistake,
David. I do want to knowthis, this texter said, Mandy,
you could talk about the US AirForce graduation. Kamala Harris was the
speaker. I'd love to know ifanyone went to the speech for this reason,

(17:00):
I would hope, and at aservice academy, the cadets are trained
to be very respectful. I wouldhope that she was given a respectful welcome.
I'm sure she was. She's thevice President of the United States and
there is dignity in that office thatneeds to be respected. But I'm wondering
what people thought of the speech,like just overall, and why hasn't a

(17:21):
rod where are my invitations to speakat graduations? Have you been hoarding them
over there, not passing them alongto me? No, just the pink
slips. Dang it. Dang it. By the way, I started sending
out applications, just in case younever know, I did get one rejection
letter in all caps, all capsexclamation part exclamation poit exclamation boy. Ever

(17:45):
tell it it, bound said capon a lego. Yeah, exactly,
all right. So, uh,I believe Max Fund is coming up at
twelve thirty. I need to doublecheck cauz. I think it is ann
I put that at the wrong time. But that is okay, because we've
got lots of stuff to do throughoutthe rest of the show. We are
waiting at Max Fund is coming upnext, so we are waiting for the

(18:07):
Trump jury. I read yesterday somecoverage of the judge's directions, and we
have not gone into this case becausemy theory is, and you'll notice,
I don't ever really talk about trials. I just don't because we can talk
about it and talk about it,but until the jury comes back, we're
just spouting off, right. SoI've been waiting. But yesterday watching the

(18:29):
judges directions to the jury, Holycow. I feel like his directions yesterday
opened up the door for appeal.I think I think they were without,
egregious and ridiculous. So, uh, we'll find out what the jury does.
It's it's yesterday from what I cantell, and maybe there's a lawyer.
We'll get on after the after thethe jury comes back to talk about

(18:56):
this that he essentially said, look, you don't have to agree on all
the count If you agree on fourdifferent counts, then we'll make that basically
unanimous decision. What come on,Come on, We're gonna take a quick
time out because I am gonna playwith some dogs next in the next segment,
and you can play along too viasocial media. We'll be right back.
Kathy Gains, the executive director,Sophia, is it guerra guerrero?

(19:19):
Okay, she's like whatever, justMasac, my name is fine. And
Zoe Difario, who is the adoptioncoordinator, have brought in three fuzzy friends
from Max Fund because Max Fund isa true no kill shelter and they don't
just take care of dogs. Theyactually take care of dogs that have been
brought in off the streets by goodSamaritans. They pay their vet bills,
then they keep them safe and happyuntil they can find new forever homes.

(19:41):
And they are just a wonderful organization. So pull that microphone down. Yeah,
there you go, Kathy. No, you're good. You look strict
in there for a segment. Won'tbuy you. It's fine. So,
Kathy, how long have you beenwith Max Fund? I've been with Max
Fund for three years. And howlong have you been around They've been around
for a while. Oh yeah,since nineteen yes for sure. When I
started doing these commercials, I cannottell you how many emails I got from

(20:04):
people saying, oh my god,I got my dog from Max Fund.
So obviously, you guys have beenconnecting animals for thousands of people, I
mean tons of people said but twofriends of mine just got puppies from Max
Fund. Oh. Absolutely. AndI feel it's exciting that more and more
people, I think recognize the MaxFund name. I mean it used to
be because I was at Max Funyears ago. Also when I came back

(20:25):
to be director. When I washere the first time, I got a
lot of Oh, are you guyscompetitors of Charles Schwab. The answer is
no, we are to adopt adog maybe. I mean, yeah,
we're Denver and Colorado's largest no killshelter for dogs. Wow. And how
many animals do you usually have inthe shelter that you guys have even day?
We might have three hundred between dogsand cats, three hundred plus we

(20:48):
have about one hundred in foster careand any wow. So yeah, it's
it's a very busy. We havefive buildings, kind of a little quasi
campus, and it's it's quite thehappening place. No, if you could
just kind of and I give thebackstory a little bit in the spots that
I've been doing, But the backstoryof this is really kind of cool.
I mean, and let's talk aboutMax for a second and why he has

(21:11):
a fund. Absolutely, yes,absolutely, so back in nineteen eighty eight.
The original founder was a receptionist inher husband a vetnarian's clinic, and
someone brought in a dog that hadbeen hit by a car and they put
they put out a search, couldn'tfind an owner, and they ended up
naming the dog Max, And theyput a jar out on the counter and

(21:33):
called it the Max Fund. Andthe revenue that was generated to try and
pay Max's medical bills ended up beingthe seed money to found the nonprofit.
So I love that now. Noweven our veterinary clinic is part of our
five h one c three, sohodefully, I'm guessing that other vets know
about you guys as well. Sodo you just get calls when people how

(21:56):
does the process of intake work?When you went, do somebody find a
hurt animal or is and now isit just people turning animals in? What
is the process? Oh? Yeah, we had a lot of animals that
are strays. We also get ownerrelinquishments, right, people who just simply
can't have their animal in the homefor any for any number of reasons.
Did you see a spike after COVID? We did. We did see a

(22:17):
spike. Weirdly, it was froma lot of other organizations that didn't have
the ability to bring the animals backin. We ended up taking in a
lot of those animals after after COVID. That was unfortunate, but I in
some ways it was probably a littlepredictable, and that people who were at
home all the time got pets tokeep them company, and then when they
weren't there, that pets turned intomore work. Yeah, I mean thiswide

(22:38):
right. Oh yeah, yeah forsure. So when you guys, you
are a true no kill shelter,and I love that because there's a lot
of places that that is not true. But what kind of challenges does that
present for you? Well, weare also a managed intake shelter, right,
So we don't we don't have contractswith municipalities which allows us to say

(23:00):
whether or not we have the spaceand the staff to take in animals.
Right, So when we're at capacity, unfortunately, we sometimes have to send
animals to other organizations or work withpeople. We do a lot of trying
to keep animals in the home withour pet pantry and discounted medical services.
So it's very important to us whensomeone comes in and says I can't have

(23:22):
my animal anymore, we ask whyis that right? Is there a way
that we can help you keep yourpets right? So the good news is
that Colorado loves our pets. Imean, and I'm guessing you have a
pretty broad base of support we do. Indeed, I feel like after thirty
eight years, there's a lot ofpeople that are supporting us. They come
to our events every year after year, a lot of familiar faces. Well,

(23:47):
let me ask Zoe a question.I have the cutest little dog eating
my card right now. He's eatingbut I'm just gonna My boss is in
here, so I'll be like,I need a new one because because it's
adorable. Little pumpkin boxer mix,precious little baby is eating my work card
to get me in the door.So who do we have in the studio

(24:07):
with us today? We have,first of all, super active dog number
one. She's ready to party,Lily Lily. If you are a runner,
Lily will be your best friend atthat you know, honestly, she's
she's action packed. She is aBelgian Malannois. That is what she looks
like too. She is fancy,She's very fancy, and they are active

(24:30):
dogs. So if you're looking fora running partner, I bet she would
be amazing. She would be agreat running partner. She's very smart as
well. Yeah, and then theother dog is the sweetest little pop.
I kind of want to take herhome with me. I just sent a
picture to my husband that is Bunny. Bunny is just a cuddle blug.
She looks like a mix of anAustralian shepherd in something. She is.
Yes, and her mom is actuallyat the shelter as well. So her

(24:52):
mom is a blue healer. Ohwhy do we think that dad is a
cattle dog mix. Oh, she'sa cutie, but she's really chill.
She is, she's calmed down.Yeah. Well, and then this little
because it's eating my work hard area. She's a boxer mix and she is
just yes, is she or aheat? It's a heat Jamison. No,
No, that is okay. Andhe is the younger Jamison is thoroughly

(25:17):
enjoying chewing up my card right now. But it's okay. I'm fine with
that. And now when people cometo maximund, what is the adoption process
like? So for the adoption process, we have everybody fill out an adoption
application which can be applied towards specificpets or just a general application, right,
and then it's up to the adoptionstaff to help talk to the potential

(25:38):
adopter, pair them with potential dogsthat may be a good fit for their
home, and then once the applicationis filled out, we have them come
into the shelter for meet and greet. Once they complete the meet and greet,
if they have any other dogs inthe home or any other kids or
family members, we have them comeinto the shelter as well to make sure
everybody's on the same page and everybodygets a chance to meet the potential new

(26:02):
pup. And then from there wedo the adoption. So just an application,
a meet and greet process, andalso just digging in more with the
shelter staff to kind of find apet that works for you. Well,
let's talk now, Sophia. Youguys have a big event coming up in
October. I've been talking about it. Let's talk about the Doghouse Correspondent Center,
not to be confused with the highlypolitical White House Correspondent Center. But

(26:26):
what can people expect at this gala. Well, it's a priply timed just
because it's right before the general election. Well, get right on that,
mic, Yeah, oh gotcha.That's okay, but it's a properly time.
It's just right before the general election. But it's sort of a tongue
in cheek gala theme for dogs andcats, and we're just kind of rolling
the troops and getting stuff, gettingpeople to support Max Fund. There's going
to be a live auction, alive performer, live comedy. We have

(26:48):
Kevin Fitzgerld coming so very nice.Should be a really fun event for people
to come and show out and dressup and enjoy themselves. Tickets are on
sale now and you can do allkinds of things at max fund dot com.
You can buy your tickets to thegala, you can peruse all of
the cats and dogs and it's funny. We were talking off the air like
you can choose your dog, butI guess you just have to come and
stand there and let your cat chooseyou if you're looking for a cat,

(27:11):
because cat that's what cats do.Cats are like, oh, you're my
human now, So you just stayin one place and wait to see your
Yeah, I wait to see whopops up. It's fine, but you
can also make a donation if you'rea pet lover. This is such a
great organization because not only are theyhelping sick and injured animals, they're also
keeping them safe and finding them foreverhomes. And it's just it's wonderful.
And I'm so happy that you guyscame in today, and so happy that

(27:33):
you brought Jamison my new best friend. Hi, buddy. Oh, I'm
getting kisses and it smells like Poppyjoo oh. I love it. Thank
you, thank you, Thank youladies, first of all for what you're
doing, and second of all forbringing the dogs in for me. All
right, we will be right backafter this. I love puppies. You
stayed in the other room because youdidn't want Poppy to be jealous. That's

(27:56):
what you did, didn't it.Yeah, Poppy would know. Oh no,
Jenks is going to be super mad. But I got a bunch of
pictures and I'll say, these arethe furry friends I was playing with today,
And now I'll go which one youbring it home? Well. I
sent a picture of little Jamison toChuck and I said, show this to
Jinks and ask if she wants afurry friend. And he said, she
said, no, You've offered thisquite a few times. I'm just saying

(28:17):
offered bringing another puppy home. Ithink you're being serious. No, you
tease enough times. No, Honestly, I think Jinks would be so mad
at me if I brought another doghome, because she is like, I'm
her human, she is deeply imprintedon me, and the que is in
here right now, I'm I'm Jinx'shuman. Yeah she'll back yeah, she'll

(28:40):
back me up. And I thinkshe'd be mad because ultimately I end up
taking care of the dogs. Ifeed, I walk, I bathe,
I do all that stuff for thedog. So then this dog would,
you know, think that it wasgoing to imprint with me, and Jinks
would be like, no, Idon't think so. I feel it was
if she got older, she wouldunderstand because you don't. No, you
know, I've never had a doglike Jinx my Saint Bernard that I have

(29:02):
now, I've never had a dogthat I was so sure just had no
interest in having a friend as longas I was her mom, Like,
she doesn't have any interest in anythingthat takes my attention off her. I
call you crazy, but is theexact yeah, same way. And I've
never had a dog quite like thisbefore, So there you go. Anyway,
I got a bunch of other stuffon the blog. I'm going to

(29:25):
talk about this since we're kind oftalking about animals for a second. Are
you guys aware of these organizations thatare trying to get human rights for animals?
And one of them is called beingon Seriously, it's the Non Human
Rights Project, and they they havetaken to going around of filing all these

(29:45):
lawsuits on behalf of zoo animals,and now they filed a lawsuit on behalf
of five elephants at the Cheyenne MountainZoo in Colorado Springs. They say the
elephants are being held against their willand are subsequently suffering undue stress and brain
damage. They seek for the elephantsto be placed in a wildlife sanctuary where

(30:06):
they can have more room to roamcomfortably. Now, if I am the
opposing attorney in this lawsuit, myline of questioning says, your honor,
I call to the stand Mavis theelephant from the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo. And
when they're like, well, youcan't do that, because I mean,
how are you exactly case followed bya psychiatrist checking this case. Well,

(30:26):
this is very common and what Ithink is happening is they're filing these lawsuits
and every single time they lose,because they've lost in every single one of
them, They're just using that torefine their argument. So every lawsuit is
a little bit different than the onebefore, but every rejection just helps them
understand what arguments don't work. Andthey're they're just going to keep doing it

(30:48):
and keep doing it and keep doingit. They want to shut down all
zoos and think about it. Thoughthey've been able to change the circus industry
permanently, Ringling Brothers and Barnum andBailey don't have animals anymore. They don't
have elephants anymore. And I'm notsad about that. And Nos, I
don't love circuses. Do you lovea circus? Absolutely on the cruise it's

(31:11):
fantastic. Well, but I'm talkingabout the dodgy ones that show up with
a shady tent that guys, youprobably just smoke meth put up, you
know, those kind of circuses.I'm like, because I never feel like
the animals are treated well. Theydon't have anywhere to move around. No,
they've got to be classy circuses.Yeah, like the one I just
saw, or like, oh therewere no animals on that circus. No,
no, see, that's what I'msaying. Circuses can be very successful

(31:33):
and fun without animals. Yeah,they don't have to have animals. When
I was a kid, though,circuses were about the elephants standing on a
ball and the lion tamer and youknow, animals jumping through hoops and people
riding on the backs of llamas andyou know, doing all kinds of stuff
with animals, and it's incessary.Yeah, it's not necessary. But the
animal rights people have changed that,so that is a victory for them.

(31:56):
But this kind of stuff though,they've tried to get human rights recognized for
chimpanzees. I don't know if it'sthis specific organization to be clear, but
other non human rights organizations have havedone similar things. One is going to
stop the circus. One's okay,the one the battle. Now they're going
for the war. Well, nowthere are some zoos, and the Yan
Mountain Zoo is a great zoo.It's a really have you ever been down

(32:17):
there? Oh, it's a greatzoo. It's a great zoo. And
so the Shyan Mountain Zoo is Ithink a good zoo. But they're going
to try this everywhere until they shutdown any sort of animal anything anywhere.
And don't get me wrong, Ilove the wildlife experience in Frederick. Is

(32:40):
it in Frederick, It's it's ait's a hall, it's a drive.
I love that entire wildlife sanctuary becausethe animals are free to rome, they
are not there for the pleasure ofthe people. I love that whole thing.
But at the same time, Ido think that zoos play an important
role in helping people have compassion,sympathy and love for animals so that they

(33:01):
can have their habitats preserved around theworld. So I don't know, it's
just this kind of stuff is justkind of I don't know really, but
yeah, if I were the opposingattorney, I would be like, Okay,
I'm calling the elephant to the stand. Oh no, they can't talk.
Case closed, Sorry about your luck. Case closed. It's over now
when we get back. An interestingyou know, Donald Trump had a tape

(33:25):
pop up in the first selection cyclethat was not good and it created some
really bad feelings with women. Hemay have a problem with African Americans if
a different tape pops up. I'llexplain after this. Mandy Connell, joined
of course by a rod Anthony Rodriguez, and we are working our way through

(33:47):
a busy broadcast day. So ifyou are a Denver voter, you are
going to have on your ballot.Likely it's not for sure yet, but
I think it's going to be therea ginormous bond issue that Denver Public Schools
is going to want you to votefor. And you know, I now
have spent so much time talking toAaron Kine from Dougco about the stresses on

(34:12):
the educational systems here in Colorado,and a lot of it has to do
with capital needs, meaning they neednew buildings in certain areas. They have
schools that are over attended, theyhave schools that are under attended. Denver
Public Schools has been losing some enrollment, but they just got an influx of
people from the illegal immigrants that arenow settled here, and they have very

(34:37):
old buildings in Denver. So Iwant to lay all that out now because
I think it's important to recognize thatthe needs that they are putting forth.
Maybe I don't have all the detailson all the needs are important, and
they're there, and every school districtin Colorado is dealing with some of this.
They were underfunded for many, manyyears, and now they're trying to
play catch up. And in Denver, they're going to ask for a ginormous

(35:00):
bond issue to help them take careof a lot of issues. But do
they deserve your money and your vote? This is a question that I think
you really need to think about becauseDenver Public Schools and there's a great editorial
about this today, And I actuallythought much of the stuff that is in

(35:20):
today's editorial. When I saw thisbond yesterday, I thought, you know
what, like, right now,I live in Douglas County, maybe you
live in jeff Co. Maybe youlive in Adams. When you think about
your current school board and the waythe district is run, do you feel
like giving them a giant pot ofmoney would be spent responsibly. The only
way you can ensure that that itis spent responsibly is to be absolutely transparent

(35:45):
about where the money is going,how it's being spent, make everything available.
And Denver Public Schools has spent thelast few years doing the exact opposite.
They are making the district more andmore opaque. I want to share
some of this editorial. It's notvery long from the Denver Gazette, whatever

(36:07):
the merits of nearly one billion dollarbond proposal for Denver Public schools that could
appear on next fall's ballot. Asreported Wednesday by the Denver Gazette, the
school district's battered image has very likelyeroded trust among voters. If so,
it's warranted. Since the outset ofSuperintendent Alex Morero's tenure, the DPS administration

(36:29):
has been seemingly cloaked in secrecy.It is shut the press and public out
of various public meetings, and foughttooth and nail in court to prevent the
release of critical documents. Among themore notable examples was last year's court battle,
which the Gazette and other media ultimatelywon to compel the release of recorded
school board deliberations following a student's shootingof two administrators at East High School.

(36:52):
Morero's time at the HELM has infact represented an utter failure at transparency.
Meanwhile, the district's cavalier approach tostudent safety has unnerved parents and the rest
of the public as well. Aninternal report the district had refused to release,
but that was leaked to the medialast year revealed an alarming indifference to

(37:15):
students and staff safety by the DPSadministration, their priority instead appeared to be
keeping dangerous kids in school. Theshooter at East High had been on a
district safety plan, which sets specificconditions like pat downs for students who pose
a risk. He had been expelledfrom another district and was on probation for
a weapons charge. Incredibly, DPSadmitted him, and that was only one

(37:39):
of many cases. Indeed, theinternal report found that safety plans have become
a substitute for expulsions or denying admissionto DPS. Underlying all of it,
of course, has been a fundamentalfailure in leadership over the past several years
by Denver School Board itself. Sincetwenty nineteen, it was mired in in

(38:00):
fighting, obsessed with internal political rivalries, and as secretive as its superintendent was
about its proceedings. Perhaps worst ofall, the board was oblivious to floundering
student achievement. Significantly, some raysof hope appeared in last November's school board
election, when three board members werereplaced, two of them ousted by voters,

(38:21):
and the third so unpopular he declinedto seek reelection. Their successors,
endorsed by the Gazette's editorial board havebrought new vitality, integrity, and just
plain common sense to the board.Above all, they seem more inclined to
place kids over politics. But thenew members still comprise only a minority on
the board. Not only have ensuingpolicy votes by the board reflected a divide

(38:45):
at times, but more telling asMorero's continued presence as the district's chief executive
and his approach to administration continues toprevail. Only weeks ago, for example,
the Gazette's news staff discovered the districtofficials apparently had begun requiring some district
employees to sign confidentiality agreements. Itwas Will Jones, the district's former communications

(39:09):
chief, who first exposed the development. Jones was blindsided, as he put
it, when the district fired himand offered him a five figure settlement if
he signed a confidentiality agreement. Herefused, maintaining he had done nothing to
warrant termination. Good for Jones,it turns out the practices unusual among area

(39:30):
school districts. Neither neighboring Cherry Creeknor Jefferson County school systems require such agreements.
Former DPS school board member Teresa Paniatold the Gazette then the confidentiality agreements
were nonsense and confirmed they weren't inuse when she served on the board from
two thousand and three to twenty eleven. Critics of the agreements point out they

(39:50):
silence employees who otherwise might call outwide ranging malfeasans and misconduct. What is
the district trying to hide? Noneof which boats well for a district seeking
to restore public confidence just when itneeds it most. So they're going to
ask you for almost a billion dollarsin bond money, right It's going to
be a tax increase. It's goingto be a sales tax issue, I'm

(40:14):
pretty sure. And the thing isis, even if you believe that the
district's buildings are aging, which theyare, that we still have buildings in
Denver, Colorado right now that don'thave air conditioning in their classrooms, and
we all know that it gets hotin those classrooms. We know that these

(40:34):
things are happening. But if I'min Denver, I don't think I give
him the money. Not with hisleadership. I don't trust Alex Morrero to
be transparent with the spending. Andthat is a big old tub of money.
I mean that's huge tub of money. And I'm curious about Denver voters.

(40:57):
Now. I know that generally speaking, the voters who listened to this
show are anti tax increase, andwe all just got clabbered with a massive
property tax increase as well. SoI'm curious, what is it going to
take for you guys to say,you know what I'm going to I'm going
to vote yes. What is itgoing to take? Now, you may

(41:19):
have a kid at one of theseschools and you may see firsthand how bad
the buildings are. But this thisask is ginormous. I've never seen an
almost billion dollar bond issue put beforevoters for anything, So this is a
They're just they're swinging big, andI'm wondering if maybe they had broken it
up into different pieces, people wouldbe more amenable to it. The text

(41:42):
line you can always text us onthe common Spirit health text line five six
six nine zero to text us there. At least fat Tay is not still
there, says this Texter. Hewould no doubt find a way to get
his greasy hands on that money thatfrom Jason. And you know what Jason,
he would would he would pretend tobe the victim in some circumstance and
he would file some race based lawsuitand the district would settle, so he

(42:05):
would shut up and go away.It's exactly what they would do, Mandy.
I'm in Wyoming, and when seventypercent of my property taxes go to
schools, you're darn right. Iwant to know how it's being spent.
And that's the kicker, you guys. The kicker is is that all of
us are now shoveling far more moneyfrom our property taxes into the Department of

(42:27):
Education. And I'm still not sure. I haven't gotten a good explanation of
where's all that new money going.What exactly is that new money being spent
on, how is it being distributed. I know that they just did all
this education reform and that they've changedthe way the money's being distributed. More
of it's going to follow as astudent, which isn't necessarily a bad thing,

(42:51):
but I still want to know wherewhere my money's going, I would
think, and this is just me, like, why can't the Department of
Education put an easy to read andthat's the key easy to read page on
the website with X amount of dollarsgoes to this district X amount of dollars
goes this way, we should allbe able to see where our money is
being spent. How much of thatmoney is being spent on administration instead of

(43:15):
classroom teachers and classroom aids. Thatfor me is a big issue. And
don't get me wrong, I don'thave any animus towards school administrators. They
are necessary for the proper functioning ofthe school. But do we need fifteen
layers of administration? Do we needfifteen layers of administration in the main office?

(43:39):
We do know we don't. Andif you want to see how you
can do that without fifteen thousand layersof administration, look at how Douglas County
runs the school district. They havefar less an administration than other school districts.
I mean way way less comes tothings like HR professionals and stuff like

(44:01):
that. So I want to knowhow much of the money is going to
those people. But Mandy, oneterm only, Mayor Johnston said it won't
be a tax increase. That isfrom a Texter. This will be a
tax increase and they have to listit as a tax increase. Mandy,
I would vote no for the DenverDPS bond issue, because why wouldn't the

(44:22):
massive property tax spike that is nowbecoming do not cover that. It all
has to do with the stupid waysschools are funded. Everything is siloed in
education funding. You have a capitalfund, you have an education fund.
You can't cross those streams. Theydon't trust school districts to make their own

(44:44):
decisions. That's the problem. AndI'm sure that they're allows these school districts
that are run poorly and have createdthis situation. But if they just said,
here's all your money, spend itas you see fit, then we
be having a different conversation. Sothere you go. This person says,
you know, the money will bewasted, there will be no accounting,

(45:07):
just like unemployment was lost a coupleof years ago. That's the whole problem.
And here's the thing. If theDenver Public School District was truly a
transparent district that worked with its mediapartners, and it was open to parents
and it had you know, itwas easy to find out information there,
would you know, perhaps this wouldbe a no brainer. But they're not.
They're the exact opposite of that.It's so complicated, says this texter.

(45:30):
So they can hide whom is gettingwhat a men to that, Mandy?
What about the money coming from marijuanasales. I still have no idea
where that money is going. Asa matter of fact, when I get
back from vacation, a rod,remind me. Don't remind me now,
smarty pants. Let's get someone fromthe Department of Education specifically to talk about
marijuana money and where it's going.Don't you do it now? Don't you

(45:53):
reach for that microphone to remind menow when I get back from vacation.
Remind me after I get back.Not now, Mandy, what happened to
the COVID money for improving these schools? And why weren't some of these things
done when there were zero kids inschool years ago? Now, Texter,
you are so cute expecting government todo anything efficiently. I mean, come

(46:16):
on, that would have been toonice. Now, what I'd like to
know is where's the COVID money beenspent that it wasn't spent on tutoring kids
to get them back up to gradelevel. That's what I want to know.
Ask any special needs parent about whetheror not they will vote yes on
this massive hike. They're the mostrobbed from group of people in the schools

(46:37):
and the employees. Well, don'tforget stop it. Stop it right now.
When I return from vacation, Iwould like you to remind me that
I want to find out about themarijuanam am. I back from vacation right
now. No stop it, battyfrom stop it. When I returned from

(46:59):
vacation, Comma, then remind methat I want to talk to someone from
the Department of Education. I willremind you now about when you get back
from vacation. Remember do that thing? Uh huh. Yeah. This text
message is spot on. Education establishmentsays they want more parental involvement until us
parents got involved than they want usto shut up. That is so absolutely

(47:22):
true. When I was in Louisville, they're public schools, y'all. I
don't care how bad our public schoolsare here anywhere. I actually think we
have decent public schools. That beingsaid, Louisville, Kentucky does not.
And I was shocked at how badthe schools can be in Louisville. Not
all schools, but a lot ofthem are terrible, I mean embarrassingly bad.

(47:45):
And I had this superintendent of schoolson Shelley Berman. His name was
Sheldon Berman, Hi, doctor SheldonBerman here, and he was everything you'd
think Aductor Sheldon Berman would be Pinky'sout all the time. And I had
him on my show and I wastalking to him. I said, look,

(48:05):
why can't we move the needle onstudent achievement? What we have to
do differently? This is not working. What we're doing sucks right, So
he says to me, and I'mgoing to do my best doctor schulden Berman
impression. He lean's in and hesays, you know, it's about poverty.
It's about poverty, Mandy. That'swhy we can't move the needle on

(48:30):
student achievement. And I found itinteresting that he chose something that the school
district cannot control in any way,shape or form. The other thing he
would say is, you know,we need parents to be more involved with
their children's education. But what theymeant was we need parents to blindly follow

(48:50):
whatever is we're teaching their kids andreaffirm it even if the parents disagree with
it. Because now we've seen whenparents show up and say it's not okay
to tell my kindergartener that they canchoose. That is not okay. All
of a sudden, the schools arelike you know what, We've had enough
of you. You people just bein the carpool line at the end of
the day, bring snacks on teacherAppreciation Day, and then sit down and

(49:13):
shut up. That's exactly what happened. Oh oh, you guys, seriously,
you guys are now killing me onthe text line. Manny, don't
forget to get somebody to find outwhere the marijuana money goes. Smarty pants,
smarty pants, what is going onhere? Well done? What about

(49:36):
jeff Co's schools and all their unmanagedfunds. That's what happens to a lot
of money. This is the thing. If you're gonna give them a whole
bunch of money, I want tosee a spreadsheet that is updated on a
weekly basis. This says, hey, out of the almost billion dollars that
we've gotten, here's what we've spentso far. I mean, surely the

(49:59):
person cutting the checks could just throwthat into a spreadsheet and as we see
it be spent, we the consumerswill know exactly where it's gone. Mandy.
Let's be honest, says this Texter. The largest organized crime syndicate is
the teachers Union, and they havetheir hands around the neck of anyone close
to the money. What's been fascinatingabout the teachers union. And I'm not

(50:21):
one of those people who's like,we should put somebody's face on our dark
board, but if I was everthat kind of person, it would probably
be Randy Winegarten from the Teachers' union. She is now trying to go back
and rewrite the history of school closuresbecause we know, we absolutely know that
the teachers' unions communicated directly with theCDC. Because when the CDC came out

(50:45):
and said, hey, you knowwhat, we think you can open schools.
Oh no, wait, nevermind,we didn't say that, and we
know now that they could, theyRandy Winegarten directly communicated with the CDC to
make sure that schools stay closed.And the damage that that is done we
are going to deal with for years. We have kids that are not on
grade level, haven't been on gradelevel, may graduate not on grade level.

(51:08):
And what does that mean for ourfuture with these kids? Mandy,
if you want a spreadsheet, thenthey will ask for another bond. Yeah,
that's true, we need a bondfor the spreadsheet. What would you
need? How much would the bondbe for the spreadsheet? Like I mean
I could hire somebody on fiver todo a spreadsheet. That's like forty bucks.
All kick in the forty bucks forthe spreadsheet creator. That's fine.

(51:31):
Do you know how to make aspreadsheet? How are you with Excel?
A Rod, I'm bad, bad, bad at Excel. Tell you through
Google Docs. Oh, and youcan make your own little spreadsheet there.
Everything is way easier. What yeah, how do you do that? Google
Drive? You can do spreadsheet,you can do excels. I mean you
can do everything, work dogs,Excel, spreadsheets, everything, had no

(51:54):
idea? Did you just ride out? N huh? Really yeah huh?
But then so wait a minute.You create it in Google Docs, but
then export it to Excel, soeverybody, I want to read it in
Excel. Correct. Wow. Ifeel like right now, I feel like
I'm a caveman and I've just comeinto the future. You're welcome. I

(52:15):
have your fire. That is absolutelyamazing. Yeah. No, I had
no idea. But why would Imake a spreadsheet? I'm a talk show
host, like I mean, honestly, I don't do math in this job,
A Roy, Do you know thatabout me? That's why you're making
a Google You know you can makelike a presentation too, right like Google
slides? Yeah, why am Igoing to do that? Okay? Making

(52:35):
sure? I mean I can blowyour mind too, because that's more useful
to me. Okay, A nicepresentation. Do you use that for?
What would I do a presentation for? Uh? You know, things to
remind you by the things you needto remember before vacation, after vacation,
thank you very much. After aftervacation, yep, I'll remember it before
vacation, yea, before to rememberafter m Yeah, we oh, I

(52:58):
can't read that. Why do youpeople let me on the text line?
You know, I don't have timeto read these before I read them and
then I see the very end ofthat line. I can't read that on
the radio. Can't read some ofthis stuff, Mandy. Google sheets?
What is Google sheets? What isthat same thing? Now? I'm talking
about the Internet? Sounds wild,Google Drive and Googles That sounds amazing.

(53:21):
Has all of these different things youcan make in there and then export for
the other programs. I don't thinkI want to learn any of that that.
I'll just pay someone on fiver todo it. Or my daughter,
she can do it. I'll giveher five dollars to do it. Bye,
this person said, my wife did. And by the way, when
I'm talking about five, a lotof people don't know what this is.
Five is a website FI V ER R. If you need a spreadsheet

(53:42):
done, if you need a PDFcreated, if you need a if you
want a lighteboard drawing of your business, any different. Logos is where you
go. Yes, they have everything, and you basically hire people for very
cheap. Most of them live inPakistan or India or somewhere where forty bucks
is like a weekly salary. Justa special tip. You can find diamonds

(54:06):
in the rough for five dollars.Yeah, right around that, like fifteen
to twenty dollars. Range is perfect. That's the sweet spot. Yes,
and you can look at their workprior. So there's a little fun fact
for you. I don't know howto make a spreadsheet, but I know
how to find someone to do itfor me. We'll be right back.
Dave, the intrepid producer will bejoining us after our break here in a
few minutes. He is loaded forbear with examples of how we are all

(54:27):
living in George Orwell's nineteen eighty fourand I hope you read the book.
If you didn't. It is nota long read. I don't know how
whether you're a fast reader or aslow reader. I am a super speedy
reader, like dumb speedy reader.And it only took me, I don't
know, maybe three four hours,but again, super speedy reader. And

(54:51):
I'd read it before, so itwas like I was refreshing my own memory.
But it's such a good book.I kind of forgot about how what
a good book it is. Rossand I were talking about, And I'm
going to ask the professor that Ihave coming on if nineteen eighty four was
influenced by another work by iin Randcalled Anthem, which is a It's anthem

(55:12):
is kind of like after nineteen eightyfour, If they were connected, I
don't know that they are. Butiron Rand, as much as I love
the concept she writes about, she'snot a good writer. She does not.
I mean, man, she couldreally use a lot of judicious editing,
right. But George Ormol's a goodwriter, is a really good writer.

(55:36):
So we'll talk to him in justa few minutes. In the meantime,
though, I've got a couple ofthings that I want to get into.
This is you're going to see inthe media a lot of stories that
look kind of like this one.Now, I also have a thing on
the blog today, a new survey. Let me let me find this very
very quickly, because I think it'simportant, because I have as a talk
show host, questions for you,the listener, about this. So there

(55:59):
is a new survey that says peopleare already tired of talking about the presidential
election. Listen to this. Amajority of Americans say they're closely following news
about the twenty twenty four US presidentialelection, a slightly higher share than in
April of twenty twenty. At thesame time, many people already say they

(56:21):
are worn out by so much coverageof the campaign and candidates. More than
half of Americans fifty eight percent saythey're following news about candidates in the twenty
twenty four presidential election very or fairlyclosely. Another twenty eight percent say they
aren't following too closely. Thirteen arelike nah, I'm good. The share
of Americans is slightly higher now thanit was in April. However, in

(56:45):
October of twenty twenty, that numberjacked up to seventy five percent. And
this is one of the things aboutour election cycle. Right now, we're
paying attention to the primaries. Theprimary election here in Colorado is coming up
in June. We've got a lotof very important congressional primaries going on right
now, so we're kind of payingattention to that. We already know that

(57:07):
Donald Trump and Joe Biden are goingto be the nominee, so that their
mystery is over, right, wedon't even have to worry about that anymore.
But the real political you know,haymakers start after Labor Day. So
once we get back from Labor Day, summer's over, people are starting to
get back into life. Then itbecomes a lot of election coverage. And

(57:30):
I'm wondering because here I am yourI hope beloved talk show host. I
hope beloved anyway somewhat okay, likedtalk show hosts. I'll take liked.
It'll be fine. But I'm reallytrying to strike a balance. It's kind
of like the Trump trial. Sothe Trump trial is huge story, and

(57:52):
it's an important story. And Ihave some polling data that also shows that
a majority of Americans believe that theTrump trial, the sole purpose of the
Trump trial is to prevent him fromgetting elected again. So they believe that
the process has been politicized, andthat's not good. That's not good at
all. But this story particularly large, we haven't talked about it because what's

(58:12):
the point. We're gonna get averdict at some point, and as soon
as they let us know that averdict has been reached, we will then
kick in our news coverage into overdrive, because there's usually a few hours between
the time the jury announces they've madea decision and when the decision is actually
announced. But I don't want tobeat you guys to death with this.

(58:35):
I feel like this particular election cyclebecause the two main candidates are not very
likable. Trying to think of thebest way to say that. I know
that Trump has his passionate supporters andBiden has like a handful of people who
think he's awesome. But outside ofdoctor Jill's friends, I don't know who

(58:57):
else is in that camp. Sowhat do I do as a talk show
host? How much do I talkabout this? Do I just wait until
after Labor Day to really kick itinto gear when everybody starts paying attention,
or do I continue to follow thedaily slings and arrows like right now,
Doug Burgham is on Fox News,Doug Burgham, who was so boring as
a presidential candidate that they wouldn't evenlet him talk at the debates, and

(59:22):
now he's a VP potential VP candidate. I'm oh, yeah, let's bring
him up. He's he talking rightnow. He's leading in the polls,
and that's why you're going to seethat when he gets out of here and
can get back on the trail andtalk about inflation, the border, of
stopping the wars overseas. That's whatAmericans care about well, And in the
mean time, he just sounds boring. He just I'm sure he's a nice

(59:45):
man, but he's up in NewYork. By the way, auditioning,
you have to show your fealty.You have to show up at the trial
and some measure to you prove thatyou are the right kind of trumpy.
And to the person who said Mandytry tolerated talk show hosts, I'll take
that too. I mean, youput the bar as low as you want,
I'll step right over it with youknow, with my feet, it'll

(01:00:06):
be fine. So I'd like toknow your opinion, like how much do
you want or is it gonna beone of those things like pornography. You'll
know it when you see it kindof thing. I don't know. Anyway,
back to the story that I startedthis whole conversation with, You're gonna
see a lot of stories about youngvoters now since I've been a young voter,

(01:00:30):
politicians always talk about we're gonna getthe youth vote. We're gonna get
the youth vote. Normally they don't. President Barack Obama really aggressively went after
the youth vote and got it.And then Joe Biden was the recipient of
the large ass of the youth votebecause you know, he was vice president
and young people don't really pay attentionto stuff, so he got to do

(01:00:53):
He got their large ass as well. Well, young people are done with
Joe Biden. They're just done.Young voters overwhelmingly believe that almost all politicians
are corrupt and that the country willend up worse off than when they were
born. This according to a newpolling from a democratic firm, Blueprint.

(01:01:15):
As part of the online poll,Blueprint asked participants to respond to a series
of questions about the American political system. Forty nine percent agreed to some extent
that elections in the country don't representpeople like them. Fifty one percent agreed
to some extent that the political systemin the US doesn't work for people like

(01:01:35):
me, and sixty four percent backthe statement that America is in decline.
A whopping sixty five percent agreed eitherstrongly or somewhat that nearly all politicians are
corrupt and make money from their politicalpower. These are not good numbers for
politics, but they could be reallygood numbers for the country. Hear me

(01:01:58):
out if younger people reject the statusquo, and younger people simply say this
is not good enough, and weare not going to allow this to happen.
And I don't expect it to happenin this election because they're all mad
and they're all sort of taking theirmarbles and going home right now. But
in the future, when they startto hit their thirties their forties and they

(01:02:19):
start running for office, maybe wecan have people who are serious about cleaning
up a system which is I believe, completely corrupted. We no longer have
a capitalist society. We have acrony capitalist society where people go to government
and they have rules but in placethat their competition can't live by, and
government allows it to happen over andover and over. I'm not anti capitalism.

(01:02:43):
I am pro capitalism, but weare not doing capitalism now in the
United States, and a lot ofthat has to do with the corruption of
the politicians who pass the laws.So it's the poll goes on. I
mean, the scale of disillusion withyoung voters is significant, and that is

(01:03:04):
a really bad thing for Joe Biden. Fifty one percent, by the way,
said they were happier before the COVIDnineteen pandemic. Seventy seven said that
event changed the country for the worse. Forty five percent said they feel less
connected to friends and acquaintances compared withfive years ago. I don't disagree with
any of that last part. Ithink COVID was an absolute disaster. Not

(01:03:28):
the disease itself, which was terribleand obviously took the lives of many,
many people, but the reaction toCOVID, the totalitarian nature of the reaction
to COVID, and the way thatso many people just jumped in to lean
in and jump in and be totalitariansthemselves. Come on, anyway, we're

(01:03:52):
going to come back. Dave theintrepid producer will be with us right after
this the legend or the intrepid produceris back with us today. Dave.
How you doing, my friend?I'm doing fine. And I was walking
down the beach the other day Iheard a swimmers screaming for help with the
shark circling him. I just laughed. I knew the shark wasn't going to

(01:04:15):
help him. Also, my exwife is she still misses me, but
her aim is getting better. Savingthese up? Dave? Have you been
saving these up? Is this whatyou're doing? Don't trust Adams, they

(01:04:38):
make up everything. Okay, yeah, thank you, thank you. Okay,
that's it. That's it. Daveis back to me. Fine,
how are you, Mandy? I'mgreat? Dave. You look well,
you've got your big brothers watching youscreen on your on your zoom call here,
so to remind us all that bigbrother is out there and watching us,

(01:04:58):
which is always important. Now,Dave, what have you been up
to? Everybody asked, like,have you talked to Dave? How's Dave
doing? What's going on with Dave? As you know, they don't want
to say it's Dave dead, sothey're just asking, you know, what's
going on with you? And Ifigured I just have you on, so
they would. You'll read about itin the paper. If it happens,
you should be so lucky. Youshould be so lucky. Anyway, Yeah,
probably ignore me. No, whathave you been up to? Anyhow?

(01:05:20):
I'm great. I've been, youknow, for years. I have
this tremendous library at home. Yehhome library. And now I have the
time to read as much and asoften as I like. And I've been
doing a lot of reading. Whatkind of stuff have you been reading lately?

(01:05:41):
Well, actually, I keep arecord of everything else. Shut uf.
You have a spreadsheet, and nowI have a little book, and
every time I finish a book,I write the name of it and the
date I finished it. So Ijust finished a book that it's known as
the children's book, and it willconnect up with what we're talking about in

(01:06:03):
nineteen eighty four by Rual Dahl calledMatilda. You've probably seen the movie Matilda,
yes, with Danny DeVito and RiaPerlman. It's a great, hilarious
movie. And I have this philosophy. A lot of people will classify books
as children's literature, women's books.Like Jane Eyre, I classified books as

(01:06:30):
either good or bad. I don'tcare if they're children's books, were aimed
at women. If they're well writtenin their great books, they're great books.
Had you not read read any rollDahl already? I mean, have
you what other things have you readby him? I've read all. I

(01:06:51):
have a book of his complete shortstories that he started writing when he was
a pilot in World War Two andof the time he died. It's big,
thick book, great stuff. Ilove his stuff. I don't like
the man so much because he isan admitted was an admitted anti semi and

(01:07:13):
said a lot of anti Semitic thingsnot on it. You know, it
really kind of almost ruins it.But he's a great writer, and he's
a hilarious writer. And Matilda isa great book and I recommend it really
highly. He's a short read.Dave. You should do a podcast about
the books you're reading, because you'rereading a lot of the classics. I
mean, that's what you because you'relive scene. Certainly the ones I've read

(01:07:36):
recently, The Martian Chronicles by Bradburyone of my favorite favorite books. That
is so good. Yeah, Andthere's a new one biography I recommend highly.
It just came out a few monthsago. It's called on Great Fields,
the life and unlikely heroism of JoshuaLawrence Chamberlain, who was a hero

(01:07:58):
of the Civil War, who probablysingle handedly saved the Battle of Gettysburg for
the Union. But beyond that,he's a fascinating individual who lived a very
old age, and wound that hegot in a Civil war tortured him for

(01:08:19):
the rest of his life. Buthe's a fascinating guy. And I recommenmend
this book highly. Let's see whatelse have I been reading. I got
into a thing on Mark Twain.I reread The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,
also an excellent book. I readPudd'nhead Wilson for the first time. One

(01:08:39):
of the great books ever at ClassicGeorge Eliot's Daniel Deronda. She is probably
the only nineteenth century author who isnot anti Semitic, who actually was proedj
and learned to speak Hebrew. Andher last novel is about a Zion and

(01:09:00):
she, you know, she's knownas this great British female author, and
she is. She wrote a lotof other great books, but her last
one, Daniel Deronda, is basicallyabout the Jewish experience. Dave the Intrepid
is joining us. Why is hejoining us? Well, we miss him
first of all, a lot ofpeople hitting the text line to say,
hey, Dave's back. We're sohappy to hear you. But in the

(01:09:21):
next hour, we are going tobe joined by doctor Michael Sheldon. He
is a professor at Indiana State Universityand the author of an authorized biography of
George Orwell. Because we are goingto kick off our first ever book club
on the radio. We are goingto talk about nineteen eighty four. We're
going to do that next keep itright here on KOA Mandy Connell book Club

(01:09:42):
where we discuss George Orwell's nineteen eightyfour. And you know that Dave the
Intrepid is here as well. Butnow we've been joined by doctor Michael Sheldon.
He's a professor of English at IndianaState University, where he's won a
top award for excellence in scholarship.He is that is the Theodore Dreiser distan
Wished Research Creativity Award three times.Professor Sheldon earned his PhD in English from

(01:10:04):
Indiana University. He's the author ofsix biographies, including Orwell, the Authorized
Biography, which was a finalist forthe Pulitzer Prize. He's also written and
presented for video lecture series for theGreat Courses George Orwell, A Stage for
All Seasons, How Winston Churchill changedthe world, England, the nineteen sixties

(01:10:24):
and the triumph of the Beatles andreconsidering JFK. Doctor Sheldon welcomes the show.
You're very impressive, by the way, very impressive credentials. Oh,
thank you very much. Well,I want to ask you what is it
about George Orwell. We're going tostart with this, we'll learn a little
bit about the man, then we'lljump into the book. What was it
about George Orwell that inspired you towrite an authorized biography? Very clear,

(01:10:51):
understandable prose. I love the factthat he writes so clearly. It's difficult
to misinterpret what he's saying unless you'rewillful in your effort to misinterpret. And
I believe back in the nineteen eightieswhen I first got interested in him,

(01:11:13):
there that was the beginning of theworst academic jargon. And we've had now
about forty years of academics writing prettybad prose. And so this was a
kind of lifeline I felt thrown tome in my academic life that I could
cling to that. I could alwaysread or Well and pretty much get a

(01:11:34):
sense of how to write without thejargon getting in the way of my meaning.
But don't you think that, especiallyin nineteen eighty four, because of
the topics and the news speak andthe you know, the thought police and
all of those sort of the themesthat he brings into nineteen eighty four,
in that way, it would havebeen so muddled had he not written the

(01:11:57):
way he writes, which is veryclear. I was talking about rand earlier,
who philosophically I agree with a lotof what she says, but my
goodness, she's a terrible writer whoneeds a judicious editor. And George Orwell
is a great writer, and hetells good stories. And I think that's
what makes him. What makes thesebooks so powerful, is that he takes
whether it's nineteen eighty four, whodoes animal Farm, he tells a great

(01:12:19):
story to make a point. Hedoesn't bludgeon you over the head with the
point. Yes, he understood thathe's not going to get anywhere if he
preaches all the time. He hasto bring you in through the power of
storytelling, and he does. That'shis other great advantage. He was a
great storyteller. He had a terrificimagination. Think of all the things that

(01:12:42):
that man thought of now more thanseventy years ago, that now we consider
to be almost indispensable in our culturefor discussions of what's going on, and
you name some of them, thethought police, doublethink, new speak.
The very name Orwell has become anadjective for what we do when we tried

(01:13:04):
to deceive through linguistic means, andwhat we do when we try to coerce
other people into following our lead withouttheir permission. Where what was the inspiration?
And as a matter of fact,my friend Roskominsky I wanted me to
ask you this question. He wantedto know if the writing of nineteen eighty

(01:13:24):
four was it all influenced by theein Ran essay Anthem, because philosophically and
theme wise they are very similar,and Anthem came out about ten years before.
Was there any connection there that youknow of, only a marginal one
in the sense that iin Ran andalso Arthur Kersler were both working in similar

(01:13:47):
veins. But Orwell had a firstperson experience with tyranny that really changed him.
It was in the Spanish Civil War. Most people in the nineteen thirties
who got involved in the Spanish ofwar, like Hemingway didn't actually fight in
that war. Or Well did andwas wounded, shot through the throat and

(01:14:10):
survived. And that experience, aswell as a very terrible moment in Barcelona
when the Soviet sponsored malicious there wantedto take him prisoner, gave him a
sense of what it would be liketo live in a tyrannical society, and
it was something he had a gutfeeling for because he had that experience.

(01:14:33):
So unlike many of these other writers, Aldus Huxley I could name as another
in the twentieth century who tried toimagine what a world would be like if
freedom was eliminated. Orwell had personalexperience of that and he didn't like what
he saw. At the time thathe wrote this book, was was he

(01:14:57):
trying specifically to send a message aboutto tell terianism or was it just this
is a great story about totalitarianism thatresonates even today. When he was writing
the book in nineteen forty eight,it was published in nineteen forty nine.
In nineteen forty eight, the Eastand West were really eyeball to eyeball,

(01:15:18):
as they would later be famously duringthe Cuban Missile Crisis, but it was
in forty eight. It was overthe question of West Berlin. The Soviets
were threatening to shut it off fromthe west in their occupied zones of West
Germany, and it was scary period. And at that time the United States

(01:15:40):
organized a huge airlift of supplies toget into West Berlin so they could keep
the city supplied because the Russians weretrying to shut it off. And I
think Orwell could see in that worldthat existed, that the world divided into
zones of influence would become more andmore frightening as these moments eyeball to eyeball

(01:16:00):
with nuclear weapons increased. And herewe are now seventy years later, and
it's still the same situation. We'restill facing off against very formidable adversaries in
ways that are still very frightening.What were his politics? What were Orarivilee's

(01:16:21):
politics? How would he position himselfpolitically? He always said he was a
socialist. That made sense to himin England, where he believed that capitalism
didn't work as well as it wouldin a society that was larger like the
United States. But really if youasked me, I would say he was

(01:16:45):
more of what we would call alibertarian. He really did like he really
didn't like restrictions on freedom, andso he was constantly getting into fights with
fellow socialists because of course they wantedhim to tell of the party line,
and he couldn't belong to any party. He was a party of one.
Well, very quickly, I'm goingto give a brief synopsis, and this

(01:17:08):
is a brief synopsis of what nineteeneighty four is about. If you've never
read the book, it's an easyread. George Orwell is a great storyteller,
and that's the thing that I likeabout his books because it's a powerful
message, but you're not bored bythe process of reading it. And in
this story, Winston Smith is aman who works at the Ministry of Truth
and his job is to go backand rewrite the history books because people fall

(01:17:32):
in and out of favor with thetotalitarian leadership of Big Brother. That's this
kind of nameless, faithless organization.It has a face, but they control
everything in society. And in thissociety, everyone has telescreens in their house
where not only they can see things, constant propaganda messages that are being fed
to them. They can also bespied on by the military as well,

(01:17:55):
not military, but the government aswell, So there's a there's no wiggle
room, there's there's no way tohave any privacy. You are expected to
neil at the altar of big Brother, and Winston Smith finds this to be
very unsettling and he doesn't like it. And through the course of the book,
and again this is a very shortabbreviation of what happens, he meets

(01:18:16):
a woman named Julia, and Iwant to ask you, professor, why
she doesn't have a last name.I found that very interesting. She was
just this nameless, faceless person.But let me do this, Hey Rogers,
let me know. I have totake a break. When we get
back, i'll finish my very shortsynopsis, and I've already got questions on
the text line. If you havequestions, you can text them to five
six six nine zero. We're alsogoing to get into how nineteen eighty four

(01:18:36):
has pulled through our society today,so stick around. I linked to that
book on the blog today, aswell as an audiobook that he's done for
the master courses, so you canfind out more about doctor Sheldon's work on
the blog today at mandy'sblog dot com. This is an interesting question, doctor
Sheldon. I'm going to get toit right after I finished my short synopsis
of this book. Now, ifyou've never read nineteen eighty four and you

(01:18:58):
don't want they spoiler alerts, I'mgonna tell ye how it ends, okay,
because I hate the way it ends. I hate it. But Winston
Smith, our feckless hero. He'sworking at the Ministry of Truth, rewriting
history because as people fall out offavor with the Party, they have to
be erased from history or have theirhistory rewritten so everyone knows why they are
supposed to hate them now, andthat is Winston Smith's job. He ends

(01:19:21):
up having an affair with a youngwoman called Julia, who tells him about
this resistance organization that is fighting BigBrother. He's all in, even though
we still don't know why Julia foundhim attractive, because he's described as not
being very attractive, but Julia loveshim anyway. They have an affair and
they go to bring in another manthey work with. His name is O'Brien,

(01:19:43):
and they think O'Brien is with theresistance. They go with him to
join the Resistance, and it turnsout that he is actually with the Thought
Police, and this is, bythe way, a very short encapsulation.
He ends up being sent to theMinistry of Love, where ironically he is
tortured because that's what they do atthe Ministry of Love, which is part
of the New Speak of nineteen eightyfour, and at the end of the

(01:20:06):
book, if you don't want toknow, turn it off for ten seconds
and then come back. At theend of the book, he is tortured
into being a lover of Big Brother, and he essentially gives up his soul,
his resistance, and he becomes anothercog in the machine Doctor Sheldon,
Why can't he be the man whobrings down Big Brother? That would have

(01:20:26):
been much more satisfying. I thinkOrwell was very intent on showing people at
the time that the ultimate threat facingthem is that they would end up censoring
themselves. The reason the thought Police, of which O'Brien is a member,
as you said, the reason they'reso insidious is their job is to make

(01:20:50):
you so self conscious about any descentthat you stop yourself from descent before anybody
else does so. Ultimately, youdon't even need the thought police, if
they can intimidate people to the pointwhere they're like robots almost because they've censored

(01:21:11):
themselves. And I think it's nota stretch to see this happening in the
world today, where many people willnot say something, not because they don't
feel it or think it, butbecause they know the immediate reaction will be
to make them feel bad about sayingwhat it is they really think or what

(01:21:34):
they really believe. So people nowroutinely, we all see this hole back
on their opinions because they're afraid ofwhat happens when you express your opinion.
Yep, nobody wants to put theirhead up and have it lopped off.
And we've essentially renamed the thought policethe internet, right, I mean,
Twitter is the thought police. Andanytime someone is counting to silence. And

(01:21:57):
when I look at some of theissues in the United States right now,
and I'm going to just say this, this is my example, and I'm
not expecting anyone to agree or disagreewith my example, but this is what
we're seeing right now with the transissues in this country. That you have
now been told that men can havebabies, and if you stand up and
say a man cannot have a baby. You are a hated You're a hateful

(01:22:19):
bigot. And so people are juststanding around going, yeah, men can
have babies because they don't want tosay what they know to be the biological
truth. And that's my example,and I think it's a sound one.
I think there's a lot of exampleslike that where people may think something is
utterly absurd, but they're not goingto be the one to put themselves out.

(01:22:39):
No matter what your point of view, no matter what it is you
think, you're right to say whatyou think should be absolute, because the
answer to free speech is more freespeech. And people who don't like free
speech really don't like hearing things theydon't want to be told. So,

(01:23:00):
for example, Orwell once said whatI consider to be his most important quotation,
and in fact it's so important it'scarved into the wall as you enter
the BBC today where he once worked. So they carved what I'm going to
tell you into the wall next toa statue of Orwell. And here's what
it says. It says, ifliberty means anything at all, it means

(01:23:26):
the right to tell people what theydo not want to hear. Oh,
that's fantastic. The BBC can't.Yeah, the BBC can't do that.
They're afraid, but they put thaton their wall. I suppose to remind
them. But no media outlet canreally do that. In fact, most
human beings can't do that. Trythat with your boss, Try that with
your spouse, Try try that withjust about anybody. To actually tell them

(01:23:51):
what you think and know that theydon't want to hear it. That's a
tough thing to do. That's avery revolutionary well, speaking of that,
someone on our text line and youcan text us questions at five sixty six
nine. Oh, they said,to tell the truth during a time of
tyranny is wait a minute, totell the truth during a time of tyranny

(01:24:12):
and lies is a revolutionary act.And was that George Orwell? Or was
that Eric from or do you notknow because I don't know. Sounds yeah,
it sounds very much like Orwell.I'd have to look it up to
be sure. But that's that's hisbelief. It's his idea that if you
cannot speak your mind, you're notfree. It's as simple as that.

(01:24:35):
If you're not free to speak yourmind, you're not free. And that's
why he believes that choice is soimportant. The whole idea behind news speak
is to carve the English language downto about a thousand words, so that
people are forced to use just afew basic items of vocabulary, rather than

(01:24:56):
the one hundred thousand words plus thatmost people have access to in the English
language. So when you start totell people they can't say certain words,
what I think General Lee's not missnot understood is that you're taking choices away
from people, as though you hadeliminated the right to buy this kind of

(01:25:17):
car or to fly this kind ofairline. You are telling people they cannot
make a choice because you've eliminated thatchoice. Well, you've made the choice
for example, like all that useof pronouns. Yeah, oh yes,
we're super late, So let metake a quick break. When we get
back. Dave has some excellent examplesof how we're living through nineteen eighty four

(01:25:40):
right now. We'll do that rightafter this. Dave the intrepid producer and
doctor Michael Sheldon from Indiana State wherehe is a professor of English and has
written an authorized biography of George Orwelland very very interesting stuff. Now,
the reason we're talking about nineteen eightyfour is because it came up organically on
a show one day where I wassort of poking at things that were honestly

(01:26:03):
felt straight out of nineteen eighty four, and we dipped our toe into a
little bit of that in the lastsegment. But I want to prove I
want to play a sound bite.This is Neil Kavudo of Fox News talking
to Joe Biden economic advisor Jared Bernstein, and the clip is self explanatory.
I'm just going to play a partof it to get a feel for it.

(01:26:24):
But if you've ever wondered what newspeak sounds like or what the ministry
of truth would be like, thisis a great example. I do want
to get behind why the President keepsclaiming this, this is what's talking about
inflation. Take a look. Wehave dramatically reduced inflation from nine percent down

(01:26:45):
so close to three percent. We'rein a situation where we're a better situated
than we were when we took office. It was nine percent when I came
to office. Nine percent. Butlook, people have a right to be
concerned. I think inflation has gone. This wasn't nine percent when I came
in, and it's now down aboutthree percent. Jared why does he keep

(01:27:06):
saying that you're his top economic you'rethe head of the Council of Economic Advisors.
Do you ever whispering as your misterpresident, Just to be technical about
it, it wasn't nine percent whenyou assumed office. It was one point
four percent. It got his highas nine percent in twenty twenty two.
You brought it down from that,but it was never, ever, ever,
nine percent when you came into office. So why does he keep saying

(01:27:28):
Well, first of all, letme point out that in that very quote
you played, the President talked abouthow concerned he was for households struggling with
prices. That he consistently is notwhat I asked It's not what I asked
you. Why see he misrepresenting this. He's making the point that the factors
that caused inflation to climb to ninepercent were in place when he took off,

(01:27:48):
and it was not what he said. He said it was at nine
percent. It would eventually get tonine percent a little over a year after
that, But the fact of thematter is it wasn't nine percent. So
I can't trust him quoting data inreal time. Why should I believe what
he's talking about now? So theannual growth in core inflation in the second

(01:28:10):
quarter of twenty one was in factabout nine percent, and his point about
inflation down sixty percent off its peakis very much the case. So it
was and it was dead. Itwas not at that. So you're almost
as bad as he is. Whycan't you just say it was high,
god, as high as nine percent, you'd be accurate in saying that.
And we have now brought it downand were struggling in around the three percent

(01:28:32):
area. But it's better than itwas. But instead hanging on his credit,
to hang it on his predecessor thatyou inherited something that was through the
roof when we were in the middleof COVID, it just seems to the
America people, whether you were parkingor a Democrat, hold on lying,
you're just lying, Well, holdon, I hear you, I hear
you. The President was making thepoint that I think is unequivocally true.

(01:28:54):
The factors that took inflation to ninepercent were in place when he took that.
He is, you're not Jared,and you're very sorry. I'm going
to stop it here because it goeson for another two minutes of Neil Kavu
the guy cannot answer a question withoutnow bring with a lie. It's amazing,
and so it goes on. Hereis the ministry of truth today,

(01:29:15):
action absolutely in action. So thatis a great example. Now, Professor
Sheldon, when you hear stuff likethis, do you immediately think of nineteen
eighty four? I mean, howoften do you in your mind reference?
Because I do it all the time. I've done it all the time.
I'm constantly thinking, well, that'sthat's straight out in nineteen eighty four.
It is Orwellian. I mean,that's why it's become an adjective. You

(01:29:42):
know, when I published my biographyin nineteen ninety one, that was thirty
something years ago, and I've sincedone many other things on Orwell. But
people were telling me at the timein the early nineties, they said,
well, that's probably the end ofOrwell. Nineteen eighty four has come and
gone, so he'll probably fade intoobscurity. In fact, in these thirty
years since then, he's probably tripledor quadrupled in his influence. You can't

(01:30:06):
go a day without seeing something thatreminds you of the world that he imagined
seventy years ago. Nineteen eighty fouras a year didn't mean anything. Really,
It meant for him the future,and we're living in it now.
We're long past the real year,but it seems as though the things that
he saw in the future are inplace, and they're very difficult now because

(01:30:30):
it's dangerous to tell the truths.It is dangerous to tell the truths,
and that shouldn't be the case,but it is. And that means that
people who want to speak the truthhave to be very brave actually to do
it. So you know what Ifind Why was it called nineteen eighty four?
Why is the year important for thisbook? One theory that I think

(01:30:55):
is true. I like it isthat when he was writing in nineteen forty
eight, he was sick, hewas dying. He died two years later,
and he called it originally The LastMan in Europe, and the publisher
didn't like that, so they said, how about a year, And he
said, well, I'll reverse thedigits. Instead of nineteen forty eight,
I'll say nineteen eighty four. Andthat's the story. I like the best

(01:31:19):
of the explanation. There are otherexplanations, but that's the way he thought.
And I think it's a clever ideaabout a story that involves what we
would call today digital manipulation, inother words, taking information that we now
call digital and altering it to suitpurposes. So I love the fact that

(01:31:40):
the year itself may have been alittle digital alteration. One of the things
that we talk about a lot onthis show is artificial intelligence and you know,
deep fakes and you know, changingthat stuff. It never occurred to
me until right now that we couldfeasibly go back and change what we see

(01:32:00):
in our historical films. Right youcould have a new version of Hitler where
he talks about puppies and kittens anddoing only good things if you wanted to
rehab his image. The technology thatwe have now actually makes the possibility of
the totalitarianism in nineteen eighty four muchmore easily available. Hitler gave his mistress

(01:32:25):
Ava Brown an early color film camera, and she took a film of him
dancing on the terrace of their summerhome. You could probably put together a
video in which Hitler looked like avery friendly uncle just dancing for joy on
a patio somewhere. I mean,yes, you could alter history so that

(01:32:48):
the good guys look bad and thebad guys look good. Oh, that's
in you know, we used tohave Oh, Dave, hold that thought
for just one second. I havesome breaking news. We're gonna real quick
breaking news, and I'm not evenkidding, actual breaking news. Kathy is
in our newsroom right now. What'sthe breaking news, Kathy. Yes,
we've learning from several news outlets nowthat a verdict has been reached in former

(01:33:10):
President Trump's criminal trial in New York. This is the hush money case.
We believe that the verdict will beread in court in about thirty minutes of
standby though for more information regarding averdict being reached in New York, and
we will air it here on Kowa. I'm assuming we are not clear about
what sort of audio we will getfrom the Corpt. Obviously, we will

(01:33:30):
have the verdict in its entirety onceit is read in court New York.
Thank you, Kathy. I couldmake a nineteen eighty four comment here,
but we'll just move on rit thatright now. The question from a listener,
and I think this is a goodone. Let me see here,
me find it. Can you askdoctor Sheldon about animal farm? It was
written during World War Two and nineteeneighty four was written after the War and

(01:33:51):
Soviet occupation started. Did those eventsshape or well to write each book at
the time the way he did Ie. Farm before they came to power
in nineteen eighty four, after thewar was over and those installed in power
were abusing their power. So thequestion is how much did his life events,
you know, craft what he waswriting at the time very much.

(01:34:15):
The most dangerous book he ever wrotewas Animal Farm, and it was dangerous
because when he wrote it in nineteenforty four, the Soviet Union was carrying
water for all of the other forcesagainst Germany. They were dying in the
thousands on the Eastern Front. Andit wasn't approved among Allied leaders at that
time to criticize Stalin because he wasfighting apparently for us. And so when

(01:34:42):
you made fun of Stalin, asOrwell did in Animal Farm, people didn't
want that book published. They said, you can't do this. You can't
make fun of Stalin as a pig, a failed revolutionary, because we need
him. He's helping to defeat Hitler. So you know, there's this idea
that you can't criticize, whether it'sBiden or Trump or anyone else, because

(01:35:04):
this is our guy. Can't wecan't say one negative word about him.
So when you played the clip aboutsomeone refusing to admit that Biden was exaggerating,
you've got the the the template therefor what happens when you censor yourself.
You cannot afford to criticize the personwhose lot you've tied yourself to.

(01:35:27):
You have to pretend, in thecase of Stalin, that he was just
a friendly guy who happened to shoota lot of people at star of a
lot of people. It was anaccident, it was an oversight. I'm
sure it was fine. I dowant to ask this question, though,
and that is it just went outof my head, Dave, What point
did you want to make earlier?Yeah, a couple of points. One

(01:35:50):
is the tape we heard earlier ofJared Bernstein. That's like Joseph Gerbel's big
laye philosophy. If it's big enoughand you tell it often enough, people
are going to believe it. Andorwell just took and ran with that,
and Jared Bernstein ran with it.Another point, the COVID nineteen experience we

(01:36:15):
had. You know, you say, well, we have the technology,
we only had telescreens in nineteen fortyeight. We really didn't have technology.
Then now we have cameras on everycorner in the United States. And you
say, well, yeah, butthe government isn't using it the way they
did in nineteen eighty four. Well, look at COVID nineteen. In the

(01:36:38):
name of public health and safety.Kids were not permitted to go to school,
lost a year of their education bygovernment decree. So nineteen eighty four
is here. And are you surprised, doctor Sheldon that nineteen eighty four is
here. But it's not the governmentthat is spuying on us all the time.

(01:37:00):
It's tech companies. And we've willinglyturned over our privacy to have an
app that may do something convenient forus. So we're constantly being monitored.
All of our web traffic is beingmonitors ever, you know, for marketing
purposes. But is that kind ofa surprise that it would be technology and
we've basically volunteered all of this ortaken this upon ourselves voluntarily. No.

(01:37:27):
When Orwell was working at the BBC, he was a broadcaster and it was
wartime, so there was a killswitch manned by somebody from the BBC who
could actually stop his microphone if hesaid anything that violated wartime censorship. So
he understood that technology was in placeeven in those days to immediately stop people

(01:37:50):
when they said something they weren't supposedto say. Today, you can your
YouTube site can be demonetized in allother kinds of ways. It was interesting
that when Musk Elon Musk took overTwitter, that he found out that the
tech companies were working hand in glovewith the government, that they often helped

(01:38:10):
each other back and forth to censorthought that they considered inappropriate. When you
think about it, the telescreen isa one way zoom call. That's it.
Yes, let me ask you onemore question before we run out of
time and have to play of theday. This is a good question.
How much influence did New York Timesreporter mister Jones's discovery and reporting of Stalin's

(01:38:34):
holomotor starvation of Ukrainians influenced Orwell's writing. He knew that does relies coming out
of the Soviet Union that they hadnot been involved in the starvation of millions
in the Ukraine. And also theshow trials that took place, the purge

(01:38:57):
trials to get rid of people whowere opposed to Stalin in the thirties were
such obviously show trials that he couldsee through that that Stalin was trying to
persuade the West to believe that hewas doing all this in the name of
the revolution, but in fact itwas just to consolidate power. The Stalin
starvation in the nineteen thirties, thatwas Walter Duranty of the New York Times,

(01:39:23):
who won the Pulitzer Prize lied constantlywas a Soviet tool. So way
back in the nineteen thirties we havethis kind of disinformation. It's interesting that
now Ranty, by the way,he said they weren't dying from starvation,
they were dying from malnutrition. Ofcourse, yeah, totally different. Doctor

(01:39:44):
Michael Sheldon, I really appreciate yourtime. I am going to get your
book because I want to know moreabout George Orwalde Man. And I've linked
to that book on the blog today, so if people want to buy that
book and find out more. Thishas been very informative, and I would
urge all of my readers to geta copy of nineteen eighty four. It's
not a heavy read. It's agreat story. That's the part that makes
it so good is that it's notdogma. It's not beating you over the

(01:40:09):
head with a message. It's justa really good story with a really disappointing
ending. From my perspective, Ialways want the revolutionaries to win. By
the way, I also watch thefilm nineteen eighty four with John Hurt and
Richard Burton. Yeah. Excellent.Yeah, there you go. By the
way, somebody just pointed out inthe upcoming presidential debates to your point,

(01:40:30):
doctor Sheldon, the Biden administration wantsto be able to cut the MIC's off,
So kind of an interesting parallel thatyou just brought up for the debate's
great point for the text or now, doctor Sheldon, are you in or
out for of the day? Haveyou made a choice? I think I
better go out because I've got anotherappointment shortly after the top of the hour,

(01:40:50):
so I think I'm gonna have toleave. But thank you very much
for the invitation. It was apleasure having you, and I can't wait
to read your scholarship on George Royl. Thank you so much, doctor Sheldon
for being with us.