06-04-24 Interview - The Theater of Dreams - These Guests are Magic!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Carol Massey and Joe Gibbon. Theyare the team behind the Theater of Dreams
in Castle Rock. And you maynot know that we have a hot bed
of magic activity right here in themetro area. But Carol was born in
Ohio and immediately became a star.I miss Ohio finalists. Oh, turn
their MIC's on there for me.She has worked as a magician, as

(00:23):
a cruise director and now the ownerof the Theater of Dreams co owner,
well co owner. And I wasgonna say with Joe. Joe is a
Colorado native, got a magic kidat four and drove his parents crazy for
the rest of his life. I'mimagining. Oh yeah, yeah, they
were thrilled when I told him Iwasn't going to college. I bet,

(00:44):
I bet, Now you have won. I didn't know that there was awards
for magic, Like, I hadno idea that there are magic contests apparently.
Oh yeah, they're all over theworld and there's a world Championship.
It happens every three years. It'slike the Olympics. I love ps of
magic. Yes, that's what theycall it is the Federation of International Societies
of Magicians. And you get judgesfrom eleven different countries, and people compete

(01:10):
from all over the world, usuallyabout two thousand competitors in every aspect of
magic. How many people? Howmany magicians do we have? Oh my
god, the world if you countthe people that do it as a hobby,
yeah, a ton. I meaneven in Colorado there's three magic clubs
and now probably one hundred right thereor more. Now, you you must

(01:32):
you blew off college to become amagician. You got two degrees to become
a magician. I don't know whoseparents were more disappointed. Okay, how
do you say to your parents,I have two college degrees, I want
to be a magician on a cruiseship. Well, I had the company
car that was from Chefbard to theAmerican Home Foods in the driveway and we
got the call to say, notJelle, another magician, you can come

(01:56):
on Carnival cruise lines. For threemonths and my parents were in living room
and I walked up to them.I said, well, this is what
just happened. What you do andlooked at Dad, looked at mom.
They looked at me. What doyou want to do? I said,
I'm a young kid. I wantto call I don't want to sell anything
with American on foods. I wantto go on cruise show. So that's
where it started. They allowed me, they backed it, and then this

(02:19):
whole career just happened in snowballs andhere him forty years later, still doing
it. So when did theater dreamstart? How did that all come together?
Well, we used to be onthe road. We had our own
show at the MGM Grand in Vegasfor a while. We toured all over
doing casino showrooms, performing arts centersin kind of a large scale show we
called The dream Masters, where wepresented the magic as dreams and nightmares happening

(02:46):
live. So it kind of tookaway the aspect or the challenge aspect of
people going hmm, I got totry and figure this out, which would
be me, which would be hatemagic because I can't figure it out and
it drives me absolutely insane. Okay, so that's a compliment to you,
because honestly, magic is harder toamaze people with a lot of intellect and

(03:10):
intelligence. We love the crowds thatare doctors, lawyers, engineers, those
people because they have so many theoriesin their mind and that's why they can
be amazed easier. And then youget a child that saves at our wizard
camp, and they kind of goback to the simplicity and they're closer to

(03:30):
how the effect works than an adultthey are. You're, of course they
are. Basically, people don't understandthat magic is ninety nine percent psychology,
and so when we understand how people'sthought processes work, we can take advantage
of that. And so if you'rea real intelligent person and you've gone through
a lot of experiences in your life, you make assumptions where kids don't.

(03:55):
And so if you assume that youknow a certain amount of things, we
understand the way you might be thinkingand things to twist that I'm too smart
for my own good? Is thatthe excuse that you guys are giving me.
Right now, okay, let meask you some questions, like basic
questions about magic without giving too muchup. What is the most what is

(04:15):
the we'll call it the gateway drugtrick, right Like, what was the
trick Joe that made you go,Wow, this is it for me,
I'm doing it. This is amazing. Well, when I was four or
five years old, I got amagic kit for Christmas for my mom when
I was four, and I dida trick for my uncle, who I
thought was way older than me.He was probably you know, college age,

(04:38):
right, and I freaked him outmaking a coin vanish into a glass
of water. And I was immediatelyhooked because I saw the wonder in his
eyes and I saw him go whoawait a minute, what was that?
And you know a lot of peoplewill get into magic because it's an ego
thing and they want to be ableto do something nobody else can do it,
right, the real magicians that arepros and stuff, they get into

(05:00):
it to give the gift of wonder. There's no other art form that can
do what this does. You canwatch movies with special effects and go wow,
but that's you know, cgi,But when you see stuff happen right
in front of your face, youcan't explain it. It gives you a
little bit of a rush that nothingelse can do. And you know,
if you break away from that,how did it work and just kind of

(05:24):
go wow, it's cool that magicis real. Even for that brief moment,
there's nothing like it. So Ithink most of us go, ah,
I want to give that to people. I want them to have that
experience. Well, you know,it's a little like it's a little like
Santa Claus. Yeah exactly. I'ma big believer in proponent in Santa Claus
because this world that we live inis so hard, yeah, and so

(05:45):
challenging that snatch that joy where youcan, you know, especially with little
kids. So this is kind ofthe same thing. It is. And
you know, one of the thingsI love about our theater and why you
asked about that, we were onthe road for a long time. Our
manager passed away sudden heart attack,so all our work went away and decided
let's open our own place instead ofbeing gypsies, and feature all these world

(06:06):
class people that we know and bringhim to Castle Rock. And that's what's
been happening for twenty one years.But I get more joy watching them give
the audience that experience that I getgiving it myself. Well, I just
love seeing people come out with afacilitator. That's right, Yeah, we
try. Somebody just said I wouldlove to know his thoughts on a Carbonaro

(06:29):
effect. Oh I love car Whatis Carbonaro? Michael Carbonaro had this idea
to not be presented as a magician. He would be, for example,
just a guy behind a counter ata seven eleven or something, and people
would come in and he would dothings to change himself, to change his

(06:50):
look and not even act like he'sdoing any magic where he's doing a lot
of magic and it's hilarious. Ihighly recommend you watch his show. He
has a show on Am I goingto not be able to figure out how
to do this stuff he does?Oh? You will? No? No,
he has a whole team of magiciansthat design the magic that he does.
But these things are impossible things,and they're brilliant. They're really creative,

(07:14):
and so somebody will come up andthey'll buy something and all of a
sudden, weird things happen with itand whatever, and they're like going,
wait a minute, you know,like am I in the Twilight Zone?
Or what pumps? What's going onhere? Exactly? Yeah, so extraordinary.
When people start to get into magic, is there like a progression?
Do you start with card tricks?Do you start with you know, pulling
a rabbit out of a hat?What do you do? They're like,

(07:35):
what's basic level magic? And thenwalk me through to what some of these
David copperfield level tricks would be.Well, for example, at our wizard
camp that we do in the summertimeand private lessons as well. We just
start them with everyday objects. Ourclasses all with everyday objects so that they
can do magic anywhere. So they'renot having these special gifts right right,

(07:58):
props. But it's more about presentation, like you can do the greatest thing
in the world, and if thepresentation isn't interesting or funny or fits your
personality, then it's forgettable and kindof wasting your time. And then you
go all the way up to thesegiant stage illusions where I guess with my
career, I kind of started withthe stage grand illusion they call it,

(08:20):
and that's where you cut someone inhalf. I cut Joe in three pieces
or eyes you look good, Joebecome well. Snatches are hidden, that's
sexual, that's assault there that yousuffered. But those are theatrical and very
physical, right. I was goingto ask you how much of this when

(08:41):
when you get started. I alwaysthink of I have. I had a
friend in Orlando who was a cardtrick man. That was his thing.
But the things he could do witha deck of cards does not do justice
to when I say card trick man, it's that's not even close. No,
is it just building up your dexterities, so you have the ability to
move these cards exactly where you wantthem to be in a subtle way that

(09:03):
nobody else can see. It's likeyou're learning how to play a difficult instrument.
Okay, you know when you're referringto cards. Literally, there are
more books written about card magic thanany other subject in the world. What
it's that, how prolific and howmuch you can do with cards. Now,
we try to avoid doing card tricksin our shows. Other magicians come

(09:26):
in that are great at it.There's a new piece we put in the
show we're doing Friday that is medoing kind of like a ballet dance to
music. We have live music thatGary Conder is playing while I do this
piece, and Carol's projecting it ona big screen, so it's just my
hands and it's they're about fifteen visualmagic moments. It's probably the hardest thing

(09:48):
I've ever done it because the camerais just on your hands. No,
it's just very, very, verytechnical, but we have to make it
look like it's not, so itlooks like it's magic. But you know,
there are people that'll rely on thesimple gimmicks things, and they use
entertainment value to hopefully compensate or takeit up. Other people get so fascinated
with tex of cards, that's allthey do, and they'll never master it

(10:11):
because there's always something harder to do, right. Yeah, and then there
are people like me who eventually havetheir own path and they want to create
their own magic. So everything yousee that we do is original. It's
not seeing something that you've seen othermagicians do. And that's why I've designed
magic for people like David Copperfield andDavid Blaine and so forth, because it's

(10:31):
kind of an art. You know, it's an art. It's also probably
highly technical. I mean figuring outhow an illusion is going to work.
I mean you're talking with David Copperfieldlevel. How much planning goes into one
of his big you know, reallybig like here's your special. We're going
to do a whole TV special andyou're going to make this disappear. How
much planning goes into that stuff.It takes a village, I would say,

(10:54):
it does. It does, Andthere's so much more to this than
people understand. But yeah, Imean, not only do you have to
worry about the method and how tomake it amazing, but also the choreography,
the production, the music, thelighting. Depending on the venue that
you're working. If it's something onthe street, like David Blaine, you
have to worry about particular angles,where the camera is right, and what

(11:16):
types of things. In addition tothe psychology that makes the magic magical in
somebody's mind, it's a science.Now, where do you, guys,
Carol, get the acts? Wheredo these people come from? Is there
like a magician's database? How doyou decide who gets to come to Theater
of Dreams? Well, we havegotten to know so many magicians in our

(11:37):
field through these conventions that they gatherthrough television vessels. They're our friends.
They become very close friends, andwe are pretty particular about who we put
on our stage. And that's helpedus stay open twenty one years. And
it's just through friendship and phone calls. And it's a pretty niche group,

(11:58):
so that you get to that level. We want to know everybody, right,
Like, you know what a fulltime pros? Yeah? Yeah,
so how many how many full timepros do you think there are in the
United States right now? Oh?Well, goodness, you know, I
like to tell people. Anybody thatwe put on our stage they're they're famous
in our business because they literally are, but they're not household names. People
can only name two or three.There are a lot of really great magicians

(12:22):
that even other magicians don't know aboutbecause they're busy working for the real world,
right right, and so like wejust featured a guy from Chicago named
James Sandon last week, brilliant creativecomedy magician, but nobody knows who he
is. But yet I'd put himin a very very high level, you
know, world class level. Soyou know, it's hard to put a

(12:45):
number on it. I would say, I don't know, two or three
thousand maybe at the most. Sohow far back does the history of magic
and magicians go? Goodness? Imean you think about it like there's there's
folklore around Merlin. You know,he's part of King Arthur and the Knights
of the around Table and he wasa true magician. So it has to
have been since the beginning of time. Yeah, long, long time.

(13:07):
They say it's the second oldest profession, and we all know what are literally
depictions. There's the classic premise ofa trick, the cups and balls,
where you have three cups and balls. People think of it as the three
shell Games. Sometimes there are hieroglyphicson the inside of Egyptian tombs with people
performing the cups. That's fantastic.Who's going to be there this weekend at

(13:30):
the Theater of Dreams. I'm soglad you asked the Music and Magic Zone,
which is Joe and I and GaryConnor. The three of us put
together the show. Believe it ornot, it was born out of COVID.
We're doing Zoom did come out?Yeah, it were Zoom shows during
COVID and the three of us justgot along and one day I was at

(13:52):
a drive through and I said,hey, let's try this live, and
so we got together and it's notjust music in the background, it's all
intertwined. It's really fun. Wehave Gary the musician as well doing some
magic, and Joe and I getto pull our old music singing flute and
trombones, piano out of the attic. So music combined with magic in a

(14:18):
unique way. Nobody's ever done ashow quite like this. This will be
our seventeenth time doing it. Itstill listen Friday, seven o'clock twenty one
and over b yob love that wewant to promote. Yeah, We want
to promote that it's twenty one andover because people have this perception that our
theater, Oh little Tommy would lovethat, and it's not birthday party balloon
twisting stuff. A lot of thesepeople are national TV performers, you know,

(14:43):
award winning world champions. You know, it's it's the best, and
and people just think when they thinkmagic, especially in Colorado, oh you
got to be a you know,a good birthday party. Can I have
balloon? That'd be great. Igot a link to their website. Their
website is Amazing Shows dot com