Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We've got another guest coming up rightnow. His name is Graham Dunn.
He is a He served as aUS Marine before his twenty seven year police
career. He served as a SWATofficer and sniper for eight years. He's
also a full time Academy instructor foreight years. He is highly decorated,
including the Police Medal of Honor,the Distinguished Service Cross, and multiple life
(00:21):
saving awards. Graham, done,Welcome to the show today. I appreciate
you making time for us today.Hi, Mandy, Happy Monday. Happy.
Well, it's happy for you know, Donald Trump, because he's alive.
I mean, the reality is isthat he was very close to being
unalived on Saturday. And with yourexperience, Graham, I'm a lay person,
(00:42):
right like, I don't I'm notan expert, but even I said,
how in the hell did someone getto an elevated position that had a
clear shot of the stage and noone caught it? It seems like there
were some massive failures here. Whatare your thoughts? Yeah, run executive
protection details every month, and wework with a lot of former Secret Service
(01:04):
guide and we use a lot ofSecret Service protocols when we do our advances
and our economitess trips, and Iwill tell you that they're incredibly in depth.
I mean, really, the SecretService seems to the gold standard for
executive protection and there's no way tostay in that room. It's not like
you're in Manhattan where you've got windowseverywhere. I mean, it's an open
area, which is one or twoshooting positions. So I'd love the people
(01:26):
of our Connofans report because I'd incredible. But additionally, how did that How
was that left out? I mean, that's a question that we all have,
right and you know, I'm hearingthat that was local law enforcements responsibility,
But I have to say, Ireally don't care whose responsibility it was.
Somebody should have covered it well.It seems to me that ultimately the
(01:47):
responsibility, the ultimate responsibility for theentire event falls on the Secret Service,
and if they outsource part of that, it's still the responsibility to make sure
it's being taken care of properly correctAnd I think it shows a lot of
where they're they're the versos right now. They're thinking more about you know,
(02:07):
diversity and hiring than they are theirtactics. That that is one of the
criticisms that has been levied right nowthat we've been focused too much on diversity
and equity and all that crap andnot enough on doing the job. So
I want to ask you some veryspecific questions about how you prepare a site.
And one of the things my husband, my husband's former military as well,
(02:30):
and we were talking about this onsatur Lee, like these outdoor rallies
have to be an unmitigated nightmare,right just logistically to set up the security
perimeter for that. So walk methrough what preparation for an event kind of
looks like to give me an ideaof what goes into this before we start
slinging arrows at the at the SecretService, right and you know, for
(02:53):
the record, I mean the SecretService. Like I said, they are
the gold standards and executive protection andthe guys were on the ground, his
first protection team did an incredible jobin their heroic in their action. So
no criticism on them. It's morejust on where you drop the ball under
the comments when you're flying in severaldays earlier, and there is specific forms
(03:16):
that you have to follow and it'svideoed, it's photographed, you have contacts
you have to make. It isa huge endeavor that takes an entire team
of people. It's not like oneguy walks around and goes, eh,
you know, I kind of likethe way it looks. Right. There
was a whole format that you haveto follow in a lot of boxes that
need to be checked. So there'sno doubt my mind that that position was
(03:37):
noticed. How it was not covered, that's my question. Well, and
secondarily I want to ask about theactual series of events because now we have
a lot of video that show boththe shooter crawling over the roof getting to
where he had a position, andthen there's video of a sniper who appears
to be engaging him looking through ascope but obviously didn't pull the trigger ahead
(04:01):
of time. What is the processif there is a threat detected. If
let's just say that the some circuitsecret service official was alerted that there's a
guy on the roof, the snipergets him in his sights, Who makes
that decision to pull the trigger?Where does that command come from? Well,
ultimately, the sniper can make thedecision if they have to the last
moment, or it might be somethingthat's orders. It could go either way.
(04:26):
But you know, my thoughts isthat they returned fire so quickly that
they were already watching him, right, and they were trying to figure out
if he was a good guy witha gun or if he was somebody wasn't
supposed to be there because there's somany people involved in this people, the
lack of communication, there's a lotof confusion, so it's possible to hold
on a second. Is that acop on the roof? Yeah, you
(04:46):
know, in immediately fire and thenwhen he re fired, they returned fire.
That's something that's always kind of baffledme about the Secret Service is when
they do their set up the timeride on roofs, they actually set up
on the roof everybody always, soevery sniper school lib or went to roofs
are could be avoided at all coffeesbecause of your outset. Right the point
(05:09):
how they could shoot her down soquickly, so they put them out there
for everybody to see. And Ihave to think that the Secret Serve snipers
no better themselves. I think thatthat's something in order from above them.
Maybe it's, you know, forimage the terns. I'm not sure what
the sinking behind that is, butit's an incredibly bad position. It's sitting
(05:30):
out there in the open end rightright, if you had somebody who knew
their business diversityle I take out eam. Yeah, I mean that that seems
to make sense. I mean,it's amazing to me that there was not
a large enough perimeter around this event. It seems to prevent this guy from
being able to bring a long gunin. Like, that's the part that
(05:50):
confuses me. And now, grantedwe're at the R and C this week
and security here is so tight itis unbelievable. It is, you know,
multiple check points. It is theperimeter is so far away from the
actual venues that for a bad actorto get this close would be remarkable.
It would be unbelievable if they coulddo that. So when they set up
(06:13):
these perimeters, how far do youdecide to go out? What makes it
into the zone and what does itYeah, and that's a hard one to
answer because it's going to be differentdepending on the you know, the situation.
But I mean, like I mentionedbefore, Okay, it's one hundred
and thirty yards away, but it'snot a lot of structures there, right,
So it's really easy to say,well, we've only got two areas
we've got to cover, right,We've got to cover that building there and
(06:34):
that building there. Again, it'snot like downtown Milwaukee where you've got building
after building of glass. Yeah,you can't. You just cannot cover everything,
right, So it's actually a prettysimple location of doing a fan sung
and to set up on that makesit even more of a problem. So
when you're trying to dissect what wentwrong? Right? Right? So what
(06:56):
are your thoughts on who needs tobear the ultimate responsibility for this? Well,
obviously it comes from the top.Whoever you know, approves the reconnaissance.
If unless the reconnaissance was good andthey just didn't act upon it,
whoever proved the plans of where peopleare going to set up, that's a
problem, you know. But alsothe training they need to hide their snipers
(07:20):
for starters, and I would betthat, like I said before, the
snipers probably know better themselves. Theyprobably don't like sitting out like that.
And additionally, I saw some otherkind of weird stuff when they're pushing him
into the motorcade to get him outof there. I saw one agent who
couldn't find her holster. That showsa lack of training. I saw another
agent muzzling the crowd in other words, pointing her gun towards the crowd,
(07:44):
violating safety rules. And you knowthose safety rules. Yeah, you can
say, oh, those are justrange rules. No they're not. They're
the same in real life. AndI've been there. I can tell you
they're the same. In real life. You do not muzzle each other intocent
people. There's no need for that. She should be pointing towards the ground.
She's pointing towards the back of sixwhat appeared to be like swat guys
who are in front of her.I watched, and it wasn't for a
(08:05):
moment, it was for like along time. It was for a good
amount of time. So you know, those are training issues, and that
just makes me think that their trainingis not where it should be, that
they're not putting the emphasis on farmstraining that they should. Oh absolutely,
I mean, I'm a casual shooterand even I know everything you just said.
But there's been a lot of criticisms, specifically of those three women that
(08:28):
were sort of there at that exactlywhere you're talking about when they're getting the
president into the truck. But isthat kind of what you were referring to,
Like, maybe these women are notthe most qualified, but in an
effort to diversify the Secret Service,they have allowed people to continue in the
Secret Service that maybe don't have thejobs one hundred percent. And I mean
(08:52):
honestly, you can actually kind oflook at them and see that the physical
standards are not what they used tobe. Are those are being drops them
And you know again, what theydid with their weapons trying to holster up
and they can't find the holster andmussling other innocent people is a direct reflection
on the train they're receiving in theacademy and ongoing in service trains. Graham
(09:16):
done. I really appreciate your timetoday. Thank you for your service to
this country and your continued service andwhat you do. Great insight, and
hopefully we will talk to you againin the future. Thanks Matt Mannie,
I appreciate it.
We've got another guest coming up rightnow. His name is Graham Dunn.
He is a He served as aUS Marine before his twenty seven year police
career. He served as a SWATofficer and sniper for eight years. He's
also a full time Academy instructor foreight years. He is highly decorated,
including the Police Medal of Honor,the Distinguished Service Cross, and multiple life
(00:21):
saving awards. Graham, done,Welcome to the show today. I appreciate
you making time for us today.Hi, Mandy, Happy Monday. Happy.
Well, it's happy for you know, Donald Trump, because he's alive.
I mean, the reality is isthat he was very close to being
unalived on Saturday. And with yourexperience, Graham, I'm a lay person,
(00:42):
right like, I don't I'm notan expert, but even I said,
how in the hell did someone getto an elevated position that had a
clear shot of the stage and noone caught it? It seems like there
were some massive failures here. Whatare your thoughts? Yeah, run executive
protection details every month, and wework with a lot of former Secret Service
(01:04):
guide and we use a lot ofSecret Service protocols when we do our advances
and our economitess trips, and Iwill tell you that they're incredibly in depth.
I mean, really, the SecretService seems to the gold standard for
executive protection and there's no way tostay in that room. It's not like
you're in Manhattan where you've got windowseverywhere. I mean, it's an open
area, which is one or twoshooting positions. So I'd love the people
(01:26):
of our Connofans report because I'd incredible. But additionally, how did that How
was that left out? I mean, that's a question that we all have,
right and you know, I'm hearingthat that was local law enforcements responsibility,
But I have to say, Ireally don't care whose responsibility it was.
Somebody should have covered it well.It seems to me that ultimately the
(01:47):
responsibility, the ultimate responsibility for theentire event falls on the Secret Service,
and if they outsource part of that, it's still the responsibility to make sure
it's being taken care of properly correctAnd I think it shows a lot of
where they're they're the versos right now. They're thinking more about you know,
(02:07):
diversity and hiring than they are theirtactics. That that is one of the
criticisms that has been levied right nowthat we've been focused too much on diversity
and equity and all that crap andnot enough on doing the job. So
I want to ask you some veryspecific questions about how you prepare a site.
And one of the things my husband, my husband's former military as well,
(02:30):
and we were talking about this onsatur Lee, like these outdoor rallies
have to be an unmitigated nightmare,right just logistically to set up the security
perimeter for that. So walk methrough what preparation for an event kind of
looks like to give me an ideaof what goes into this before we start
slinging arrows at the at the SecretService, right and you know, for
(02:53):
the record, I mean the SecretService. Like I said, they are
the gold standards and executive protection andthe guys were on the ground, his
first protection team did an incredible jobin their heroic in their action. So
no criticism on them. It's morejust on where you drop the ball under
the comments when you're flying in severaldays earlier, and there is specific forms
(03:16):
that you have to follow and it'svideoed, it's photographed, you have contacts
you have to make. It isa huge endeavor that takes an entire team
of people. It's not like oneguy walks around and goes, eh,
you know, I kind of likethe way it looks. Right. There
was a whole format that you haveto follow in a lot of boxes that
need to be checked. So there'sno doubt my mind that that position was
(03:37):
noticed. How it was not covered, that's my question. Well, and
secondarily I want to ask about theactual series of events because now we have
a lot of video that show boththe shooter crawling over the roof getting to
where he had a position, andthen there's video of a sniper who appears
to be engaging him looking through ascope but obviously didn't pull the trigger ahead
(04:01):
of time. What is the processif there is a threat detected. If
let's just say that the some circuitsecret service official was alerted that there's a
guy on the roof, the snipergets him in his sights, Who makes
that decision to pull the trigger?Where does that command come from? Well,
ultimately, the sniper can make thedecision if they have to the last
moment, or it might be somethingthat's orders. It could go either way.
(04:26):
But you know, my thoughts isthat they returned fire so quickly that
they were already watching him, right, and they were trying to figure out
if he was a good guy witha gun or if he was somebody wasn't
supposed to be there because there's somany people involved in this people, the
lack of communication, there's a lotof confusion, so it's possible to hold
on a second. Is that acop on the roof? Yeah, you
(04:46):
know, in immediately fire and thenwhen he re fired, they returned fire.
That's something that's always kind of baffledme about the Secret Service is when
they do their set up the timeride on roofs, they actually set up
on the roof everybody always, soevery sniper school lib or went to roofs
are could be avoided at all coffeesbecause of your outset. Right the point
(05:09):
how they could shoot her down soquickly, so they put them out there
for everybody to see. And Ihave to think that the Secret Serve snipers
no better themselves. I think thatthat's something in order from above them.
Maybe it's, you know, forimage the terns. I'm not sure what
the sinking behind that is, butit's an incredibly bad position. It's sitting
(05:30):
out there in the open end rightright, if you had somebody who knew
their business diversityle I take out eam. Yeah, I mean that that seems
to make sense. I mean,it's amazing to me that there was not
a large enough perimeter around this event. It seems to prevent this guy from
being able to bring a long gunin. Like, that's the part that
(05:50):
confuses me. And now, grantedwe're at the R and C this week
and security here is so tight itis unbelievable. It is, you know,
multiple check points. It is theperimeter is so far away from the
actual venues that for a bad actorto get this close would be remarkable.
It would be unbelievable if they coulddo that. So when they set up
(06:13):
these perimeters, how far do youdecide to go out? What makes it
into the zone and what does itYeah, and that's a hard one to
answer because it's going to be differentdepending on the you know, the situation.
But I mean, like I mentionedbefore, Okay, it's one hundred
and thirty yards away, but it'snot a lot of structures there, right,
So it's really easy to say,well, we've only got two areas
we've got to cover, right,We've got to cover that building there and
(06:34):
that building there. Again, it'snot like downtown Milwaukee where you've got building
after building of glass. Yeah,you can't. You just cannot cover everything,
right, So it's actually a prettysimple location of doing a fan sung
and to set up on that makesit even more of a problem. So
when you're trying to dissect what wentwrong? Right? Right? So what
(06:56):
are your thoughts on who needs tobear the ultimate responsibility for this? Well,
obviously it comes from the top.Whoever you know, approves the reconnaissance.
If unless the reconnaissance was good andthey just didn't act upon it,
whoever proved the plans of where peopleare going to set up, that's a
problem, you know. But alsothe training they need to hide their snipers
(07:20):
for starters, and I would betthat, like I said before, the
snipers probably know better themselves. Theyprobably don't like sitting out like that.
And additionally, I saw some otherkind of weird stuff when they're pushing him
into the motorcade to get him outof there. I saw one agent who
couldn't find her holster. That showsa lack of training. I saw another
agent muzzling the crowd in other words, pointing her gun towards the crowd,
(07:44):
violating safety rules. And you knowthose safety rules. Yeah, you can
say, oh, those are justrange rules. No they're not. They're
the same in real life. AndI've been there. I can tell you
they're the same. In real life. You do not muzzle each other intocent
people. There's no need for that. She should be pointing towards the ground.
She's pointing towards the back of sixwhat appeared to be like swat guys
who are in front of her.I watched, and it wasn't for a
(08:05):
moment, it was for like along time. It was for a good
amount of time. So you know, those are training issues, and that
just makes me think that their trainingis not where it should be, that
they're not putting the emphasis on farmstraining that they should. Oh absolutely,
I mean, I'm a casual shooterand even I know everything you just said.
But there's been a lot of criticisms, specifically of those three women that
(08:28):
were sort of there at that exactlywhere you're talking about when they're getting the
president into the truck. But isthat kind of what you were referring to,
Like, maybe these women are notthe most qualified, but in an
effort to diversify the Secret Service,they have allowed people to continue in the
Secret Service that maybe don't have thejobs one hundred percent. And I mean
(08:52):
honestly, you can actually kind oflook at them and see that the physical
standards are not what they used tobe. Are those are being drops them
And you know again, what theydid with their weapons trying to holster up
and they can't find the holster andmussling other innocent people is a direct reflection
on the train they're receiving in theacademy and ongoing in service trains. Graham
(09:16):
done. I really appreciate your timetoday. Thank you for your service to
this country and your continued service andwhat you do. Great insight, and
hopefully we will talk to you againin the future. Thanks Matt Mannie,
I appreciate it.
The Mandy Connell Podcast News
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