August 30, 2024 • 9 mins
ARE THE KIDS ALRIGHT? I'm chatting with Education Secretary Susana Cordova about the latest CMAS results for Colorado students. Have they caught up to pre pandemic scores? How is the Department of Education working to make up some of that lost time? How is the achievement gap? We shall find out. Read more about the latest scores here.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You want to know that we're creating an educated workforce
for the future the Colorado I don't you know what.
I don't know exactly what Sea Mass stands for, but
I'm going to find out because the Secretary of Education
for the Department of Education, Susannah Cordova, is joining us
right now to talk about Sea Mass scores. After I
started talking, I'm like, I don't even know if I
(00:20):
know what sea Mass stands for? What does it stand for?
Obviously Colorado something.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The Colorada Measures of academic success.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All right. This is our standardized test that's taken by
students through varying grades, not necessarily every subject, every grade
up until eighth grade, and it's really our snapshot of
how kids are doing in Colorado. We know that there
was significant learning loss during the school remote shutdowns and
things of that nature. How are we doing this year
(00:51):
in terms of regaining that lost time?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thanks? Thanks for the opportunity to be here with you, Mandy.
You know, we have some great spots that we can
look to, and when I say bright spots, it's, you know,
all relative, but we still definitely are seeing the impact
of learning loss that started four years ago. And I
think it's really important to acknowledge teachers and families have
(01:20):
been working really hard and we have a long, long,
long way to go.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Still, we've seen some real issues with math. This has
been really hard, especially for older kids to sort of
get back on track. And as a matter of fact,
I have a story on the blog today that there's
some consideration of lowering the passing test score to allow
kids to graduate because of these issues with math. What
(01:45):
sorts of interventions are being investigated? And I realize that
you guys don't kind of, you know, have a one
size fits all, but are you aware of schools that
are aggressively going after these math shortages?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So there's both good news, I think, and then you know,
not so good news. We actually have seen continuous improvement
in math since the pandemic really kind of bottomed out.
We needed to see improvements because there was such a
dramatic decline in math performance during COVID. But grades three
(02:21):
through six are now at or above where they were
in twenty nineteen. That's the good news. The bad news
is that where they were in twenty nineteen was not great,
and so we know that we still have a lot
of work to do. But we are beginning to see
that improvement over time. You know from your blog post
(02:42):
something that's really important, I think just to share with
your listeners is the high school test that we use
is the PSAT and the SAT, and this year was
the first year that there was a brand new SAT test.
It was a different approach to testing mathematics and all
online and nationwide. We saw a pretty dramatic drop in scores,
(03:05):
and it's really challenging to actually tease out how much
of this was a drop in performance and how much
of this was it a new test and it's functioning
in a different way. A good way to think about
that is if you've got two kids in high school
and your student last year took the test and did
a great job in math, and your younger kid or
two years ago took the test and did a great job,
and then last year their little brother took the test
(03:26):
and dropped, it might actually be that the test is different,
not just that the kids are performing worse.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So the standards that we would use to measure success
would actually be completely different because the test itself is different.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Test itself is completely different at this point, and I
think if we had seen Colorado have a decline and
nobody else in the country have a decline. That would
probably be about our performance. But we actually nationwide saw
declines in math on the PSAT and SAT test.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So how are we doing with the achievement gap? This
is an in track issue. It feels like it no
matter what city I've been in, we have been dealing
with the achievement gap. How are we doing in Colorado
when it comes to black students and white students, and
then we'll talk about Hispanic students as well.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sure, so we have large, persistent and unacceptable gaps, and
that's true when we look at almost every comparison group.
So for our black students, we have seen both large
gaps and increasing gaps, and we definitely struggle with that
(04:37):
post pandemic. For our students who are learning English in
many grades, we didn't even hit ten percent of our
kids meeting expectations, and at times our gaps run between
twenty five and forty points between different groups of kids.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, you know, in my experience, education is something that
I talk about on the show all the time. I
have been deeply involved in educational issues in multiple markets,
and it seems to me that we know and I'm
not telling you anything. You don't know that poverty is
an indicator of struggling in school, and it doesn't matter
whether you're white or black or hispanic. That is a
(05:17):
huge issue. Why have we not been able to solve
the issue? And I'm talking about nationwide of specifically tailoring
our instructional process for children who may be coming to
school without the language, you know, base, without any sort
of you know, normal kind of training that an upper
(05:39):
middle class kid would get from their parents. Right, How
have we not been able to adapt to make sure
that those kids are not being left behind?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you know, I do think we have some bright
spots in one of the things that we're trying to
do at the department and really lift up those examples
of places that are doing the right things and getting
the kind of gains that we know kids are capable of.
I think you really nailed it. In families with resources
(06:09):
and means and parents who've been educated, they're putting a
lot of effort not just in school but outside of
school to make sure that their kids are successful. And
the schools that do the best work in this are
doing similar things and trying to you know, stand in
the gap around giving kids access to tutoring, giving kids
opportunities for visits to college campuses, things that many middle
(06:35):
class families kind of just think of as part of
what you do when you're raising your kids that you
might not be able to afford to do in other places.
And so we do have some really great examples of
high poverty schools. In fact, last year, I visited two
of our Title I schools that were award winners for
getting good outcomes with high poverty students. One was at
(06:58):
a DSST campus and one was one of our Colorado
Springs Area School elementary schools. And so we do have example,
we just don't have nearly enough examples of places that
are beating the odds.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How does the Department of Education spread those best practices?
Because it seems to me that, you know, I see
news stories about it, like I'll see a new story
of a school that had huge gains, and I think,
how do other schools that are dealing with a similar
population get that information? How does that dispersed?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah? Yeah, So we have a couple of different ways
that we do it. Probably the most intensive ways. We've
created what we call learning cohorts to actually invite school
district teams to come together in learning cohorts around specific topics.
We have a learning cohort that's addressing chronic apps and teeism.
Colorado has had a troubling number of kids who are
(07:47):
chronically appsent, which means they miss even one or two
days a month can get you to be chronically absent.
Chronically apbsent is if you miss ten percent of the
year or more, and so we have a learning court
around chronic apps and teeism and how to get kids
back in scho Well, you can't learn if you're not
in school, and so it's really important that we are
sharing and highlighting the work that great districts do to
(08:08):
get kids back. We have a learning cohort. Last year
we started a new one for districts that we're supporting
new arrival kids who are coming from other countries. Colorado
had over six thousand new students who were from outside
of the US and helping districts grapple with that. So
we do these learning cohorts. We also showcase districts through
(08:32):
our awards. We profile districts on our social media channels,
and we've started something that we call Commissioner Chats where
we actually interview the folks from the districts who are
doing great work and then try to share those interviews
as a way to learn from the great work that's
happening in some of our schools.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Have you ever thought about doing a teacher exchange program?
And I don't mean for a year, but I mean
having teachers from these high performing schools actually come into
some of these schools to help some teachers maybe meant
some of the stuff that they've done.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that's actually a really great idea. Several of our
partners groups like the Colorado Education Initiative, do work like that,
And I think you're right, Like, it's one thing to
hear about it, it's one thing to read about it.
It's a very different thing to see it. And when
you can see somebody who's working with students who look
(09:25):
like your kids and be able to see it in action,
it's just a very different way to make sense of
what successful practice looks like.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, you know, I believe in a vibrant school system.
I want it to be successful, so I'm always looking
for solutions. And Colorado Commissioner of Education Susannah Cordova, thank
you so much for making time for me today.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, thanks Mandy. Happy to be here all right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I have a great day. That is Susannah Court of
a
You want to know that we're creating an educated workforce
for the future the Colorado I don't you know what.
I don't know exactly what Sea Mass stands for, but
I'm going to find out because the Secretary of Education
for the Department of Education, Susannah Cordova, is joining us
right now to talk about Sea Mass scores. After I
started talking, I'm like, I don't even know if I
(00:20):
know what sea Mass stands for? What does it stand for?
Obviously Colorado something.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
The Colorada Measures of academic success.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All right. This is our standardized test that's taken by
students through varying grades, not necessarily every subject, every grade
up until eighth grade, and it's really our snapshot of
how kids are doing in Colorado. We know that there
was significant learning loss during the school remote shutdowns and
things of that nature. How are we doing this year
(00:51):
in terms of regaining that lost time?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Thanks? Thanks for the opportunity to be here with you, Mandy.
You know, we have some great spots that we can
look to, and when I say bright spots, it's, you know,
all relative, but we still definitely are seeing the impact
of learning loss that started four years ago. And I
think it's really important to acknowledge teachers and families have
(01:20):
been working really hard and we have a long, long,
long way to go.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Still, we've seen some real issues with math. This has
been really hard, especially for older kids to sort of
get back on track. And as a matter of fact,
I have a story on the blog today that there's
some consideration of lowering the passing test score to allow
kids to graduate because of these issues with math. What
(01:45):
sorts of interventions are being investigated? And I realize that
you guys don't kind of, you know, have a one
size fits all, but are you aware of schools that
are aggressively going after these math shortages?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So there's both good news, I think, and then you know,
not so good news. We actually have seen continuous improvement
in math since the pandemic really kind of bottomed out.
We needed to see improvements because there was such a
dramatic decline in math performance during COVID. But grades three
(02:21):
through six are now at or above where they were
in twenty nineteen. That's the good news. The bad news
is that where they were in twenty nineteen was not great,
and so we know that we still have a lot
of work to do. But we are beginning to see
that improvement over time. You know from your blog post
(02:42):
something that's really important, I think just to share with
your listeners is the high school test that we use
is the PSAT and the SAT, and this year was
the first year that there was a brand new SAT test.
It was a different approach to testing mathematics and all
online and nationwide. We saw a pretty dramatic drop in scores,
(03:05):
and it's really challenging to actually tease out how much
of this was a drop in performance and how much
of this was it a new test and it's functioning
in a different way. A good way to think about
that is if you've got two kids in high school
and your student last year took the test and did
a great job in math, and your younger kid or
two years ago took the test and did a great job,
and then last year their little brother took the test
(03:26):
and dropped, it might actually be that the test is different,
not just that the kids are performing worse.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So the standards that we would use to measure success
would actually be completely different because the test itself is different.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Test itself is completely different at this point, and I
think if we had seen Colorado have a decline and
nobody else in the country have a decline. That would
probably be about our performance. But we actually nationwide saw
declines in math on the PSAT and SAT test.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So how are we doing with the achievement gap? This
is an in track issue. It feels like it no
matter what city I've been in, we have been dealing
with the achievement gap. How are we doing in Colorado
when it comes to black students and white students, and
then we'll talk about Hispanic students as well.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sure, so we have large, persistent and unacceptable gaps, and
that's true when we look at almost every comparison group.
So for our black students, we have seen both large
gaps and increasing gaps, and we definitely struggle with that
(04:37):
post pandemic. For our students who are learning English in
many grades, we didn't even hit ten percent of our
kids meeting expectations, and at times our gaps run between
twenty five and forty points between different groups of kids.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, you know, in my experience, education is something that
I talk about on the show all the time. I
have been deeply involved in educational issues in multiple markets,
and it seems to me that we know and I'm
not telling you anything. You don't know that poverty is
an indicator of struggling in school, and it doesn't matter
whether you're white or black or hispanic. That is a
(05:17):
huge issue. Why have we not been able to solve
the issue? And I'm talking about nationwide of specifically tailoring
our instructional process for children who may be coming to
school without the language, you know, base, without any sort
of you know, normal kind of training that an upper
(05:39):
middle class kid would get from their parents. Right, How
have we not been able to adapt to make sure
that those kids are not being left behind?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you know, I do think we have some bright
spots in one of the things that we're trying to
do at the department and really lift up those examples
of places that are doing the right things and getting
the kind of gains that we know kids are capable of.
I think you really nailed it. In families with resources
(06:09):
and means and parents who've been educated, they're putting a
lot of effort not just in school but outside of
school to make sure that their kids are successful. And
the schools that do the best work in this are
doing similar things and trying to you know, stand in
the gap around giving kids access to tutoring, giving kids
opportunities for visits to college campuses, things that many middle
(06:35):
class families kind of just think of as part of
what you do when you're raising your kids that you
might not be able to afford to do in other places.
And so we do have some really great examples of
high poverty schools. In fact, last year, I visited two
of our Title I schools that were award winners for
getting good outcomes with high poverty students. One was at
(06:58):
a DSST campus and one was one of our Colorado
Springs Area School elementary schools. And so we do have example,
we just don't have nearly enough examples of places that
are beating the odds.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
How does the Department of Education spread those best practices?
Because it seems to me that, you know, I see
news stories about it, like I'll see a new story
of a school that had huge gains, and I think,
how do other schools that are dealing with a similar
population get that information? How does that dispersed?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah? Yeah, So we have a couple of different ways
that we do it. Probably the most intensive ways. We've
created what we call learning cohorts to actually invite school
district teams to come together in learning cohorts around specific topics.
We have a learning cohort that's addressing chronic apps and teeism.
Colorado has had a troubling number of kids who are
(07:47):
chronically appsent, which means they miss even one or two
days a month can get you to be chronically absent.
Chronically apbsent is if you miss ten percent of the
year or more, and so we have a learning court
around chronic apps and teeism and how to get kids
back in scho Well, you can't learn if you're not
in school, and so it's really important that we are
sharing and highlighting the work that great districts do to
(08:08):
get kids back. We have a learning cohort. Last year
we started a new one for districts that we're supporting
new arrival kids who are coming from other countries. Colorado
had over six thousand new students who were from outside
of the US and helping districts grapple with that. So
we do these learning cohorts. We also showcase districts through
(08:32):
our awards. We profile districts on our social media channels,
and we've started something that we call Commissioner Chats where
we actually interview the folks from the districts who are
doing great work and then try to share those interviews
as a way to learn from the great work that's
happening in some of our schools.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Have you ever thought about doing a teacher exchange program?
And I don't mean for a year, but I mean
having teachers from these high performing schools actually come into
some of these schools to help some teachers maybe meant
some of the stuff that they've done.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that's actually a really great idea. Several of our
partners groups like the Colorado Education Initiative, do work like that,
And I think you're right, Like, it's one thing to
hear about it, it's one thing to read about it.
It's a very different thing to see it. And when
you can see somebody who's working with students who look
(09:25):
like your kids and be able to see it in action,
it's just a very different way to make sense of
what successful practice looks like.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, you know, I believe in a vibrant school system.
I want it to be successful, so I'm always looking
for solutions. And Colorado Commissioner of Education Susannah Cordova, thank
you so much for making time for me today.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, thanks Mandy. Happy to be here all right.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I have a great day. That is Susannah Court of
a
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