August 30, 2024 • 9 mins
A YOUNG MAN FROM CHINA IS SOUNDING THE ALARM Alvin Hailin experienced what it's like to get on the wrong side of Chinese censors when he complained about Xi Jinping on a group chat and was visited by authorities. He came to the United States to go to college and is speaking out about the Chinese government. I'm talking to him at 2:30.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy to introduce to you a young man named Alvin.
Is it is it Hallan? Is that how you say
your last name?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Alvin?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yes, you were born in China, grew up in Beijing,
and attended an international high school in Beijing to prepare
for admission to an American university. And I want to
kind of start the story there because now you are
at an American university. But what happened in your high
school years to give you and I'm just going to
put words in your mouth some doubt about the Chinese
(00:32):
governmental system.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
When I went in the high school, like sometimes I
was required to do some like research projects. Those are English,
and so I have to like do some like search
by using some services like a Google staller. But in China,
like we have a Great firewall, the whole Google service
(00:59):
was blocked, so that I have to choose to UH
to learn how to use the VPN it's called a
virtual Private network to access the forllowing websites spanned by
the Chinese government.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
How many people would you just estimate in your own
group of friends or family use a VPN to get
around the Great Firewall.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
For my families, they didn't use that because they grew
up like they believe, they choose to believe in what
the government said. And uh, but I didn't blame them
for that. But for my like classmates, some of some
of them use it. I think majority of them use it,
but they're not necessarily for watching the things spanned.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
By the government.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Sometimes they just choose to be quiet and to do
their things.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, it's quite a large amount.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But I asked the mad currently since get Wars, because
the government now has like more like developed more ways
to detect.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Whether there are people using vps.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sometimes they do like warn those people do not use it,
or led them to pay some fine.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So there's a there's a surveillance system in China that
you got caught up by when you posted something on
a group chat. Tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Wow, that was like happened years ago during the COVID
And yeah, it was just I posted a snapshot from
the YouTube.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's a video about cheating pain.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
He like couldn't handle a complex question asked by a journalist,
so that I just feel like it was quite a
funny video and I think it's probably quite a similar
Like the Americans, sometimes they saw the clips like Joe
Biden or Donald Trump to say something interesting and it's
(03:09):
just funny. So I took the snapshot of it and
I sent it to a group chat and I said
something like by his like a names. And at the beginning,
I thought that was not a big deal because because
I probably did the things like this before and I
didn't face the severe consequence. But just after one day,
(03:32):
I received the notification from the we Chat says my
account was permanently bad.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And the reason is.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
They said, is because I spread malicious rumor.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Oh wow, and what yeah, that's quite a scary thing.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
We Chat is the platform that most Chinese people use
as a chat client, right, yes, so to be knocked
off we chat, do you have a way to communicate
with your friends now?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
After that happened, I lost all of my contacts with
my friends, and not only that, I lost the other
things like access to the payment access to the health
QR code.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's just so wait a minute, so you you lost.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The ability to do electronic payments because of that. Yes,
so explain to me how large the social credit system
is a little bit, and because that's what it sounds like.
Was this part of the social credit system where you
had been deemed unworthy of having access to this digital currency,
(04:45):
or explain to me what the Chinese government does in
terms of the social credit system.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Honestly, for because I grew up in Beijing, and I
think sometimes I think currently from what I know, Beijing
does not have a fully like really like strict stranger
and social credit system. It was more like something like
you know, with contingent and something like with a like
(05:17):
higher uncertainty. But the authority they have the power to
easily like prevent a person from like going to other
places of the country travel or like suspend their like
social media accounts and yeah, like to and also or
(05:37):
abuse the technologies like house QR codes to keep them
a rat code so that they can't move around the city.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So they can essentially take away your ability to do anything.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yes, they could.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
The alternative, though, is is what going to jail? I mean,
were you threatened with any kind of more severe penalties
because of that?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yes, I will say they and and I hear.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
The thing is they're not only uh surrending me, They
not only intimidate me by saying like if I continue
to do so, I would face like custody for days
or even the being prosecuted, but they own but they
also surrended my families. They said this would influence my
(06:27):
like my parents' careers, my siblings. Uh, you know the
schools he could go. And yeah, it's like one person.
It's basically a thing like one person's trouble. It's a
whole family's trouble. It's like a joint responsibility or collective punishment.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So you got out of China and came to the
United States to go to college.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Tell me a.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Little bit about how you joined Young Americans for Freedom.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I listened about I heard about this organization from a
friend of mine, like I met him in a like
a zoological seminar, And at the beginning I did not
understand too many things about the American politics. But in
our first like a chapter meeting at my college, so
they just said against.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Communism, against the socialism.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So say, yeah, I thought, yeah, that's where I actually
belong to because I have so many first hand experience
of living under socialism.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Is it disheartening for you when you hear young college
students saying that socialism is a better system than what
we have.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, honestly, that's quite like an annoying thing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
For me when I thought, sometimes they're like democratic socialists,
like class table laying, and I know probably they're trying
to say, Okay, we're democratic, we're not like a sort
of a sooritarian communism.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
But I believe they're like essentially saying.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Are you going to go back to China at some point?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Probably know, like so many things happened there with me
and I and I'm quite afraid after I too, After
I joined the I joined the Young Americans for Freedom,
also joined the Dission Project, become more like outspoken so
that they probably have already noticed me.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Are you worried about your family still in Beijing?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Somewhat worried about and but I'll yeah, it's just currently
they're they're doing fine, but I'm not sure like whether
how it will go in the future.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Alvin Halen is my guest, and Alvin, I just want
to say, I can I cannot imagine, and I think
most Americans cannot imagine feeling like you have to leave
your country and leave your family in order to have
the best opportunity and to be able to have the
basic freedoms that you enjoy here. That is incredibly brave
and I want to commend you for that, because a
(09:09):
lot of people would not have had the wherewithal and
then to come here and to use your own experiences
to talk about freedom and the realities of socialism and communism.
That is an incredible gift that you give to people,
and I hope that you impact and I hope a
lot of people listen to you about this, especially while
you're in college. When are you graduating.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I think I'm graduating the incoming spring.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, and you're a real slouch, a double major in
applied mathematics in the history of public policy and law.
I mean, you sound like a real slacker there, Alvin.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
You're going to go on and be a lawyer. Yes,
that's what I hope to do. Alvin Halen.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I appreciate your time today and I appreciate you sharing
your story with us today.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Thank you.
Happy to introduce to you a young man named Alvin.
Is it is it Hallan? Is that how you say
your last name?
Speaker 3 (00:05):
Alvin?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Yes, you were born in China, grew up in Beijing,
and attended an international high school in Beijing to prepare
for admission to an American university. And I want to
kind of start the story there because now you are
at an American university. But what happened in your high
school years to give you and I'm just going to
put words in your mouth some doubt about the Chinese
(00:32):
governmental system.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
When I went in the high school, like sometimes I
was required to do some like research projects. Those are English,
and so I have to like do some like search
by using some services like a Google staller. But in China,
like we have a Great firewall, the whole Google service
(00:59):
was blocked, so that I have to choose to UH
to learn how to use the VPN it's called a
virtual Private network to access the forllowing websites spanned by
the Chinese government.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
How many people would you just estimate in your own
group of friends or family use a VPN to get
around the Great Firewall.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
For my families, they didn't use that because they grew
up like they believe, they choose to believe in what
the government said. And uh, but I didn't blame them
for that. But for my like classmates, some of some
of them use it. I think majority of them use it,
but they're not necessarily for watching the things spanned.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
By the government.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Sometimes they just choose to be quiet and to do
their things.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, it's quite a large amount.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
But I asked the mad currently since get Wars, because
the government now has like more like developed more ways
to detect.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Whether there are people using vps.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Sometimes they do like warn those people do not use it,
or led them to pay some fine.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So there's a there's a surveillance system in China that
you got caught up by when you posted something on
a group chat. Tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Wow, that was like happened years ago during the COVID
And yeah, it was just I posted a snapshot from
the YouTube.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
It's a video about cheating pain.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
He like couldn't handle a complex question asked by a journalist,
so that I just feel like it was quite a
funny video and I think it's probably quite a similar
Like the Americans, sometimes they saw the clips like Joe
Biden or Donald Trump to say something interesting and it's
(03:09):
just funny. So I took the snapshot of it and
I sent it to a group chat and I said
something like by his like a names. And at the beginning,
I thought that was not a big deal because because
I probably did the things like this before and I
didn't face the severe consequence. But just after one day,
(03:32):
I received the notification from the we Chat says my
account was permanently bad.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
And the reason is.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
They said, is because I spread malicious rumor.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Oh wow, and what yeah, that's quite a scary thing.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
We Chat is the platform that most Chinese people use
as a chat client, right, yes, so to be knocked
off we chat, do you have a way to communicate
with your friends now?
Speaker 3 (04:07):
No?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
After that happened, I lost all of my contacts with
my friends, and not only that, I lost the other
things like access to the payment access to the health
QR code.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
It's just so wait a minute, so you you lost.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
The ability to do electronic payments because of that. Yes,
so explain to me how large the social credit system
is a little bit, and because that's what it sounds like.
Was this part of the social credit system where you
had been deemed unworthy of having access to this digital currency,
(04:45):
or explain to me what the Chinese government does in
terms of the social credit system.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Honestly, for because I grew up in Beijing, and I
think sometimes I think currently from what I know, Beijing
does not have a fully like really like strict stranger
and social credit system. It was more like something like
you know, with contingent and something like with a like
(05:17):
higher uncertainty. But the authority they have the power to
easily like prevent a person from like going to other
places of the country travel or like suspend their like
social media accounts and yeah, like to and also or
(05:37):
abuse the technologies like house QR codes to keep them
a rat code so that they can't move around the city.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So they can essentially take away your ability to do anything.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yes, they could.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
The alternative, though, is is what going to jail? I mean,
were you threatened with any kind of more severe penalties
because of that?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yes, I will say they and and I hear.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
The thing is they're not only uh surrending me, They
not only intimidate me by saying like if I continue
to do so, I would face like custody for days
or even the being prosecuted, but they own but they
also surrended my families. They said this would influence my
(06:27):
like my parents' careers, my siblings. Uh, you know the
schools he could go. And yeah, it's like one person.
It's basically a thing like one person's trouble. It's a
whole family's trouble. It's like a joint responsibility or collective punishment.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So you got out of China and came to the
United States to go to college.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Tell me a.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
Little bit about how you joined Young Americans for Freedom.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I listened about I heard about this organization from a
friend of mine, like I met him in a like
a zoological seminar, And at the beginning I did not
understand too many things about the American politics. But in
our first like a chapter meeting at my college, so
they just said against.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Communism, against the socialism.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So say, yeah, I thought, yeah, that's where I actually
belong to because I have so many first hand experience
of living under socialism.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Is it disheartening for you when you hear young college
students saying that socialism is a better system than what
we have.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Yeah, honestly, that's quite like an annoying thing.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
For me when I thought, sometimes they're like democratic socialists,
like class table laying, and I know probably they're trying
to say, Okay, we're democratic, we're not like a sort
of a sooritarian communism.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
But I believe they're like essentially saying.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Are you going to go back to China at some point?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Probably know, like so many things happened there with me
and I and I'm quite afraid after I too, After
I joined the I joined the Young Americans for Freedom,
also joined the Dission Project, become more like outspoken so
that they probably have already noticed me.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Are you worried about your family still in Beijing?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Somewhat worried about and but I'll yeah, it's just currently
they're they're doing fine, but I'm not sure like whether
how it will go in the future.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Alvin Halen is my guest, and Alvin, I just want
to say, I can I cannot imagine, and I think
most Americans cannot imagine feeling like you have to leave
your country and leave your family in order to have
the best opportunity and to be able to have the
basic freedoms that you enjoy here. That is incredibly brave
and I want to commend you for that, because a
(09:09):
lot of people would not have had the wherewithal and
then to come here and to use your own experiences
to talk about freedom and the realities of socialism and communism.
That is an incredible gift that you give to people,
and I hope that you impact and I hope a
lot of people listen to you about this, especially while
you're in college. When are you graduating.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I think I'm graduating the incoming spring.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, and you're a real slouch, a double major in
applied mathematics in the history of public policy and law.
I mean, you sound like a real slacker there, Alvin.
I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
You're going to go on and be a lawyer. Yes,
that's what I hope to do. Alvin Halen.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I appreciate your time today and I appreciate you sharing
your story with us today.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Thank you.
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