10-14-24 Interview - Joseph Cammack owner of Farmbox Foods

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Last week I saw a story about an organization that
is using shipping containers to grow food, and I think
this is like the coolest thing ever. So I asked
the founder of Farm Box Foods, Joseph Kamick, Is it Camick?
Is that how you say your last name? Joseph Hammick, Yes,
to come on the show to talk about it. Joseph,

(00:20):
First of all, have you ever been to EPCOT in Florida?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Have you ever been?

Speaker 3 (00:26):
I have not, but I am aware of their program.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
They I was going to say, because you know, EPCOT
actually stands for Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. That's what
Walt Disney built the park to show what the future
would look like. And a big part of the land
area is hydro product farming, and he really thought that
the future of farming and technology would be these giant

(00:49):
warehouses with vertical farming, And you got to think he
was thinking about this stuff back in the nineteen fifties.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
So the fact that what you're.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Doing now is kind of what Walt Disney was talking
about is kind of cool. So tell me about Farm
Box Foods and what you guys do first.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, absolutely, so. Number one, we're a mission based work
profit company. Our mission is to innovate to feed the world,
and as they take a step back and think about
what that means for farm Box, we really are focusing
on a few different areas. Number one, people, those that
are hungry. We're thinking about workforce development, We're thinking about education.

(01:29):
We're thinking about entrepreneurs and how they're able to think
about farming in a different way. And so we've manufactured
three different farms, a hydroponic farm, a gourmet mushroom farm,
and a vertical a hydroponic fodder farm to innovate in
the way we grow food. We're not a the solution
to change everything in farming, but we're part of the
solution and what's needed today.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
So you guys use shipping containers. Tell me what Let's
let's start with one aspect. Let's go to the leafy greens. Okay,
so you're you've got one shipping container that is growing
leafy greens. Described to me what the inside of that
shipping container looks like.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Absolutely, So there is number one, a seed table and
some tanks to start from the very beginning of the
process of from seed, we grow those seeds and then
put them into vertical grow walls. There's three grow walls
inside the container that are movable back and forth to
grow on both sides of those walls. So we can
grow about two and a half acres worth of produce
annually inside of three and twenty square feet and do

(02:30):
that on about ten gallons of water a day.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
I mean that if you don't have any sort of
sense of how regular farming works, the fact that you
can then take two and.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
A half acres, which is a large space.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
And squish it into one shipping container in and of
itself is remarkable. I mean, that's just remarkable to me.
The second part of this is you don't have to
rely on any kind of favorable weather. You don't have
to worry about rain, you don't have to worry about
not getting a freeze at an inappropriate time. These can
just be set up and they can grow all year round.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Is that how it works?

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (03:09):
So.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
We've got containers in Alaska, Nova Scotia and very cold climates.
We've got containers in Jamaica, Tahiti and Grand Cayman in
very hot and human areas, and the whole idea is
we wanted to control that climate to give the plants
the best opportunity for growth and quickest growth, so we
can feed as many people as possible.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Who's buying these who are you selling them to? What
organizations have jumped on board?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
You know? Who is you doing this already?

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah? So one of the examples here in Colorado is
Common Spirit at the Times Cential Health. They were one
of our first customers in healthcare and really found a
niche in a new way to feed their communities and
accomplish their mission. But we also have a lot of
groups like Island Nations that I mentioned, that opportunity to
create new land on an island that doesn't exist. But

(03:59):
then schools, correctional facilities, grocery store chains. We've got about
eleven different vertical markets today. It's really where's the best
application for it? Back to my earlier comments of who
it's for?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
So, how do you decide what to grow? Obviously you
have some limitations. I don't see you growing corn in
a shipping container. But what have you decided and how
have you gotten to the process of sort of narrowing
down right now on these three different areas.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, so let me start on the mushroom side. One
of the biggest concerns in getting into farming is there's
a big gap of the cost to get in. With
oard one of our containers, it lowers that gap and
the barrier to entry, and the mushroom side is where
most of the profitability lies with the container farming. With
growing gourmet mushrooms, you're able to sell out much higher

(04:50):
margins than you are leafy greens or fodder for that example.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
So in a.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Model where you're trying to be an entrepreneur or enhance
your business or growing year around in an area where
you can only have a certain season, the mushroom farmers
where to go. But when you're talking about education, expanding
the classroom, understanding business in a different way, the vertical
hydroponic farm has been very successful through different schools here
in Colorado and elsewhere to provide that outdoor classroom in

(05:18):
a new way of education. And then the fodder farm
is really all about livestock. We're selling water to the
Denver Zoo and feeding animals that need it there, but
also controlling your feed supply.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
What is fodder for people who don't farm.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Fodder, We use barley seed or wheat seed to grow
into a grass it's a soil ass system. So it's
just kind of like if you think of a piece
of sod, it's just barley seed that creates a mat
like that to then feed to the animal.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
And that all of that is edible, right, I mean
you can eat the animals can eat the growth, they
can eat the roots, they can eat the.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Whole thing.

Speaker 3 (05:57):
One percent of it.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
How does that affect the price of feeding livestock, especially
if you're feeding livestock to bring them to market? How
does that change the equation for a farmer? Is it
more efficient or is it just just having that steady
supply of feed? What is the appeal there?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
It's a bit of mixture there. I think at the
end of the day. For feed, what you're thinking about
is you're not replacing all the dry feed. It's an
accompaniment to it. So it's more digestible, the animals hydrate
from it, and so cost wise, we're close to the
same traditional feed, except you control your supply, your rest
right and in those off seasons, providing something that's nutritious

(06:42):
to the animals, even where the feed.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Can be hard to get or ship it.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
Do you have restaurants that are setting these up and
getting their leafy greens from this system already.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
So one of the groups is Edible Beats Here in Colorado.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
They have five different restaurans.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
It sits right behind one of the restaurants in an alley
downtown and they grow there to feed direct just a
few steps into that restaurant at Vital Root, but then
to the other restaurants they own.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Do you think that's going to be the wave of
the future as especially you're more high end restaurants that
are focused on farm to table. It always cracks me
up when i see a farm to table restaurant and
I'm thinking in February, what exactly are you putting on
the plates there? This allows variety where there wouldn't be otherwise, right.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, absolutely. I think that consumers are starting to question
where does my food come from? And they're requiring more
restaurants to think out of the box and think towards
farm to table, so they have a higher quality product
when you come close to the actual source where you're feeding.
As well, you're also getting to higher nutrient density in
the product and a better flavor profile in the product.

(07:53):
So I think we're going to see a lot of
especially high in restaurants go towards these gourmet mushrooms and
these leafy green types to the possible product for their customers.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
So you're asking them to think back inside the box.
Was what it comes down to.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, they're already conscious of where they get their food from.
I think that especially restaurant owners. A lot of times
there were chefs and chefs want quality and consistency and
deliver a very nice product. But now being able to
put it in five parking spaces virtually anywhere in the
world changes the game for urban farming and what they're

(08:28):
able to accomplish.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
What other food items do you see as being potentially
a good fit for farm Box to maybe say, Okay,
we're going we've got leafy greens, we've got mushrooms, we've
got fodder for the animals. But what's next in terms
of what can be grown in these conditions?

Speaker 3 (08:46):
You know, we have a big whiteboard with a bunch
of different ideas and where we would go. One of
the current research projects we're doing right now to bring
product to market is using a vertical hydroproduct farm to
grow trees. It's a partnership with Core Electric on how
we're able to bring in a nursery and produce those
good seedleans to be able to plant Burnsky areas. But

(09:06):
when it comes to food, I think one of the
natural things is aquaponics. It's similar to hydroponics. You're able
to do the fish and other items in there that
would be good for a whole, well balanced meal for
a community.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
There's a restaurant in Tampa, Florida called Burns Steakhouse and
it's very it's an experience to go to Burns. You
don't just go to dinner there. You go to have
the Burns experience. And one of the things you can
do at Burns is take a kitchen tour. And many
many years ago, when Burns decided they wanted to sell
fish in the restaurant, they were unhappy with any of
the fish they could find in the Tampa market, so

(09:38):
they brought in these giant fish tanks and they literally
have giant fish tanks in the kitchen where they go
in and get your fish right before they make it.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
And it's really impressive.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Is that kind of what you're talking about, where you
could have a restaurant that feasibly had six different huge
fish tanks, and then they had different varieties in there
where they could go out and just get a fish
to make for dinner.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
You know, I would have to say, we'd have to
see what the research is for the best fish inside
of a container. But yes, that's the idea. Is that again,
you're taking that urban farming and local concept to be
able to have that right where you're going to be
feeding people.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
So what are the implications for food that is less
less amenable but would be more productive. I think in
solving areas where there's a lot of food insecurity where
we have desert environments, where we have very hostile environments
for real farming, when you're talking about things that are

(10:36):
grain based or something that provides something that's a little
more filling than leafy greens, is that on the horizon?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah? I think when I think about that, the first
thing comes to mind is no matter where the container
is being placed, it has to be culturally relevant whatever
the food is. So that's what we're first thinking about it.
What do the people actually eat today so that if
they're getting something new out of the container, they're not
wasting it. So first step is what's relevant? Then really

(11:05):
this is where the mushrooms come in. The mushrooms are
more filling when you're talking about gourmets. There's other nutrients
inside of gourmet mushrooms that are proven into in the
New Tropics to be able to be very good for
that whole.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Health of someone in these insecure areas.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
And it can produce over four hundred pounds per week
out of our content. So you can do high yield
and get those food and secure areas things that they
will actually eat.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
So what does a cost to buy a farm box?
Drop it? Either?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I mean if you just wanted to start a gourmet
mushroom business and you were located in a place that
didn't have a good supplier, what's the upfront cost to
get started with one of these boxes?

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (11:45):
So tant that. Let me help you understand exactly what
we do. We don't just sell the container that we
actually help you on the pre construction. We will work
with you and do training on site in your farm.
When it's landed, we work with you ninety days postment
to make sure that you have all the questions and
additional training you need from us. So with all of that,

(12:06):
you're getting it landed, you're thinking about your utilities. You
got to get electrical water there, and your foundation detail
and the shipping to site, that whole process. You're talking
about about two hundred and fifty thousand dollars okay, to
complete the whole project, get it ready to harvest okay.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
But after that you should be good to go. Correct.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah, and most of the return on your investment happens
between twenty four and thirty six months.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's fantastic to know. I just think this is the
coolest thing. Joseph, Hats off to you for coming up
with a creative idea to feed people and you know,
help restaurants and shifts provide the freshest food ever and
solve a problem at the same time. I just think
this is genius and I really appreciate making time for
me today.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Absolutely, thank you for having us