September 16, 2025 • 14 mins
NOW FORMER HOUSE MINORITY LEADER ROSE PUGLIESE JOINS ME AT 2:30 And we're going to talk about why she left the Colorado Legislature and I don't think it's good.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
One of the really thoughtful, non hyperbolic kind people that
was in the Colorado House of Representatives has now stepped down.
She was the House Minority leader until yesterday. And joining
me now is Rose Pagleasi to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
High Rose, Hi, Mandy, thank you so much. And that
was very very kind.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, I mean it, I've got to know you a
little bit on board that we both worked on, and
I've always found you to be thoughtful and kind and
generally very very considerate, and so therefore you did not
belong in the Colorado House of Representatives. I hate to
say it like that, not to make light of the situation.
Why did you leave?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You know, it was a culmination of a lot of things.
You know, I'm a single mom, A raised two kids
all by myself. I have three jobs outside of legislature,
and the legislature had taken on, and it had it
had been evolving, you know, in the time I had
been there. But it really hit a new height of
(01:05):
I would say toxicity during this special session.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You know, and.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So following that, I was really, you know, trying to
figure out what my path really was. And as I
said in my letter, I spent a lot of time
in prayer, like really just asking God, you know, is
this where you need me? Is this where I'm best
to serve you? And then last week, you know, the
(01:32):
political violence and events that went on, you know, when
my kids were scared. They know that they see me
on TV, they read about me. They're not supposed to,
they're not allowed to google me, but every.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Once in a while they do do that. Right, They're fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And eleven, and I think there was just this heightened
stress in our household. And my kids never loved the legislature,
to be perfectly honest, but now it had taken on
kind of a new level.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
And for my kids, I really I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like maybe taking this step spending more time with them.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I mean I hardly see them.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I take all of my jobs very seriously, including mom,
but you know, it's hard to juggle everything all of
the time, and so there was a real desire from
them to have their mom. And at this point I thought, maybe,
you know, how do I I best be a good
mom and.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Keep them safe?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And so the legislature at this point doesn't seem to
be the best place to do both.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Rose and making that choice, you proved everything that I
said about you those nice things that I said in
the beginning, because your priorities are one hundred percent correct.
But let me ask you this. You are not the
first legislator to resign in the last five years talking
about toxic environment and how difficult it is to be
a member of the Colorado Legislature. What would you like
(02:56):
to see happen? What kind of actions would you recommend
on your way out the door to say, you've got
to fix this for the next generation of legislators that
come in here.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So there's two things.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One is more political than the other. The first is
we have got to restore balance. You know, we were
in the super minority. I'm very proud of the work
that we all did to get out of the super minority,
and I was happy to help lead that effort.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
But we need more seats.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We need to restore balance in both the House and
the Senate. I think that's number one. Number two, you know,
and I said this in my letter at the end,
but there has to be a willingness on both sides,
but especially on the part of the majority, to want
to engage with the minority.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And I think you see that more in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I was very disappointed in how the House operated. I mean,
when you're given by the majority a list of words
that you're allowed to say and not say in the well,
I mean censorship. As we're in the people's House trying
to represent our constituents.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think that's a bridge too far.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know, we were shut down in conversations. Even the
special session, you know, it already came in contentious where
Republican bills were all killed on the first day only
Democrat bills advanced on the budget on our priorities as
a state, on taxpayer money and how it should be spent,
and our voices were completely discounted. And so that adds
(04:28):
to the toxicity of the legislature. And then I would say,
so there has to be a willingness from the majority
to actually work with the minority, and thus far, you know,
that's kind of ebbed and flowed. But I have said
this actually a couple of times as they've been doing
these interviews. You know, I followed the legislature for a
long time, as I call it, growing up in politics,
(04:51):
and there used to be a desire, like you wanted
to leave your legacy with people saying you were a
statesman right now now you just want to be Internet famous,
and I think that dynamic is a dangerous one, but
also doesn't allow for that camaraderie, for that really the
(05:14):
sense of working together. So I think, you know, the
combination of the Democrats having so much power on all
levels of government, and then on top of that just
the lack of general respect for you can't have nonviolent
political discourse anymore. And I think we're seeing that more
(05:34):
and more. And I think that's a huge disservice to
the people of Colorado, because I do believe most of
them and may you and I about this conversation really
are in the middle.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I agree. I think that one of the things, one
of the positive things that will come out of the
Charlie Kirk assassination is that I do think it opened
a lot of people's eyes to how much oxygen the
fringes are taking when in reality they're looking at their
friends and neighbors and going, holy cow, this is appalling,
(06:04):
whether their neighbor is on the right or the left.
I've gotten emails from people saying I've been talking to
my neighbors who are Democrats and they all have their
Jared Pola signs in the yard and they're as appalled
as I am, which is heartening, right, I mean that
is heartening. So I do think that it's kind of
open the eyes to a lot of people who just
kind of don't pay attention and kind of dial in
right before an election, and I'm hoping that they engage
(06:27):
on a more significant level to say that this is
not okay. I do want to ask you about what
happened at the end of this last legislative session with
the situation with Ryan Armagosh sharing an unflattering photo of
a horrible outfit. I'm just going to say it on
the floor, and you got sucked into this somehow, And
when I heard about it, I was like, huh, that
(06:49):
does not sound like the rows that I know. Can
you give me your version of events there?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I'll give you a kind of the cliff notes version.
The day that picture was taken, I wasn't even at
the legislature. I hardly ever ever miss a day, but
I had something that I could not get out of
and wasn't at the legislature that day.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And then when I found out.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
About it, the majority had asked, you know, can we
can we find out who who Originally it wasn't even
who took the picture as much as who posted it
on the internet, which was kind of where my focus was.
But I didn't figure out who posted it, but I
knew that Rep. Armagost had taken it. I had told
the Majority leader, and then there.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Was no follow up.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Normally I get called into the Speaker's office numerous times
in a day, generally or within a week about something
my members have said or done that has offended another member.
And then nobody asked me about it at all. And
so as far as I was concerned, the matter was over,
and we went on and this is you know, middle
(07:55):
of April, and then you know, right before the special,
and this article was coming out about this picture and
threats that this representative had received and all because of
this picture. And you know, I said then, and I
will continue to say, I mean, I don't agree with
with the way that Rep. Armagust had gone about that.
(08:16):
He and I had had that conversation, but you know,
this representative is a public person in a public place,
also on the Colorado Channel, So like the whole thing
was a little bit odd to me. But then somehow,
you know, the Majority was questioning my integrity publicly lying
(08:36):
about the information I had given and.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Then basically was trying to paint this.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Narrative that I don't care about women, which was really
difficult for me because Mandy, as you said, like you
know me, it's not for those who know everything I
have done, my legislation, everything I have done is to
protect women and children, and so to have that narrative
on me was incredibly difficult. To have my character an
integrity question was incredibly difficult. And it was bad enough
(09:06):
they were doing it in the press, but then to
do it on the house floor on the Colorado Channel, like.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
For posterity was a bridge too far for.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Me, And so then I had to defend myself and
and I feel like I did it. You know, even
the press, I think reported it really accurately. But I
was able to uncover that the majority had had the
footage just a couple of days after that they had
basically lied about it.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And so were they really were they trying to suck
like try and get you to create some cover up
by coming to you later and asking you for help
even though they already knew the whole story. What was that?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
So on the timing I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They didn't know on that first day, so they they thought.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well, I told them.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But even regardless, they got the footage later that next week,
so they did pull the footage, but they had lied
about when and how they were presenting that information.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So it was it was really disheartening. I'm not a liar.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I don't. I don't enjoy being called a liar. And
you know, when you make a mistake, you just own
it and move on. And instead they created this controversy
that didn't exist, and I think that was just a real,
a real shame for the institution that you know, like
I said, I grew up in politics admiring.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
The entire situation. Seems that there is a concerted effort
to I'm trying to think of a way to say this
without being offensive to other people that are in the
House of Representatives. You know, Colorado Republicans have a little
bit of a brand issue because of some of the
inflammatory statements and information that have come out of the party,
(10:49):
and it's almost like they're going after a normal Republican
in order to well, we're going to get rid of
Rose so we can now focus on like the people
that are not but that are more on the fringe.
Do you understand what I'm saying with that? Again, I
don't want to insult anyone that's in the legislature, but
there are people that are way far to the right,
and just like there are people that are way far
(11:10):
to the left, and when they're going after people like
you that are there trying to be reasonable and work
on compromise and do the things that I've watched you do,
that seems like a concerted effort to go after someone
that is inconvenient because of your reasonableness.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
A friend of mine said the other day, You're never
going to really understand the motivation. But it's all politics, right,
and it's really unfortunate for the institution. I think, you know,
I am leaving the House in a better place than
when I found it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
We've got a really strong caucus. I'm excited to see
what they do next.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But my leadership will be very different than whoever comes
in next, just because we're different people, right, And I
think I have heard from from both sides that it
will be a very different legislature of this next session.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Do you want to weigh in at all on the
next leadership. Are you out?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I've gotten some calls, and I keep telling people
I have no vote. I'm not a member of this
caucus anymore. They need to do whatever they think is
best for moving the caucus forward. For me, it's all
about fundraising as much as the internal operations.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Really. You know, I was very blessed.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
To be able to beat fundraising records when I took
over as minority leader.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We broke the super majority. We won back three seats.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We need to keep those three seats so we don't
go back into the super minority. And you know, and
I have said I am. I am not out of
the fight. I'm just going to fight differently. And I
think it's really important that we invest our time, talent,
and treasure in the House and make sure that it
continues to advance. Rose.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I just got this text that says I am a
constituent in Colorado Springs and had occasion to email her
a few times. She was always prompt, polite and professional
and responding and clearly overwhelmed that while somebody said, three jobs,
how did you juggle all that? Well, it's what moms do,
It's what we do. Rose, so crazy, I hope this
(13:12):
is not the last time you and I crat for sure,
because I'm going to miss you. I think you provided
a wonderful measure of balance and thoughtfulness that is lacking
in our politics today, and I hope that the next
leader can at least pick up that mantle and move
forward and continue the work that you started. I totally
understand why you did what you did, but I'm going
(13:32):
to miss you.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Ah well, I'm going to miss you too, and I
really I'm so grateful to the people of House District
fourteen for continuing to elect me. I know there's a
lot of disappointed people, but you know, I'm putting my
family first and I think it's really important right now.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Rose, thanks so much for your time, and not since
your time on the show, but for all of your
time dedicated to making Colorado a better place to be.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thanks Rose. That's Rose Puglasi.
One of the really thoughtful, non hyperbolic kind people that
was in the Colorado House of Representatives has now stepped down.
She was the House Minority leader until yesterday. And joining
me now is Rose Pagleasi to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
High Rose, Hi, Mandy, thank you so much. And that
was very very kind.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Well, I mean it, I've got to know you a
little bit on board that we both worked on, and
I've always found you to be thoughtful and kind and
generally very very considerate, and so therefore you did not
belong in the Colorado House of Representatives. I hate to
say it like that, not to make light of the situation.
Why did you leave?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
You know, it was a culmination of a lot of things.
You know, I'm a single mom, A raised two kids
all by myself. I have three jobs outside of legislature,
and the legislature had taken on, and it had it
had been evolving, you know, in the time I had
been there. But it really hit a new height of
(01:05):
I would say toxicity during this special session.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
You know, and.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So following that, I was really, you know, trying to
figure out what my path really was. And as I
said in my letter, I spent a lot of time
in prayer, like really just asking God, you know, is
this where you need me? Is this where I'm best
to serve you? And then last week, you know, the
(01:32):
political violence and events that went on, you know, when
my kids were scared. They know that they see me
on TV, they read about me. They're not supposed to,
they're not allowed to google me, but every.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Once in a while they do do that. Right, They're fourteen.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
And eleven, and I think there was just this heightened
stress in our household. And my kids never loved the legislature,
to be perfectly honest, but now it had taken on
kind of a new level.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
And for my kids, I really I feel.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Like maybe taking this step spending more time with them.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I mean I hardly see them.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I take all of my jobs very seriously, including mom,
but you know, it's hard to juggle everything all of
the time, and so there was a real desire from
them to have their mom. And at this point I thought, maybe,
you know, how do I I best be a good
mom and.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Keep them safe?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
And so the legislature at this point doesn't seem to
be the best place to do both.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Rose and making that choice, you proved everything that I
said about you those nice things that I said in
the beginning, because your priorities are one hundred percent correct.
But let me ask you this. You are not the
first legislator to resign in the last five years talking
about toxic environment and how difficult it is to be
a member of the Colorado Legislature. What would you like
(02:56):
to see happen? What kind of actions would you recommend
on your way out the door to say, you've got
to fix this for the next generation of legislators that
come in here.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
So there's two things.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One is more political than the other. The first is
we have got to restore balance. You know, we were
in the super minority. I'm very proud of the work
that we all did to get out of the super minority,
and I was happy to help lead that effort.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
But we need more seats.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We need to restore balance in both the House and
the Senate. I think that's number one. Number two, you know,
and I said this in my letter at the end,
but there has to be a willingness on both sides,
but especially on the part of the majority, to want
to engage with the minority.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
And I think you see that more in the Senate.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I was very disappointed in how the House operated. I mean,
when you're given by the majority a list of words
that you're allowed to say and not say in the well,
I mean censorship. As we're in the people's House trying
to represent our constituents.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I think that's a bridge too far.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
You know, we were shut down in conversations. Even the
special session, you know, it already came in contentious where
Republican bills were all killed on the first day only
Democrat bills advanced on the budget on our priorities as
a state, on taxpayer money and how it should be spent,
and our voices were completely discounted. And so that adds
(04:28):
to the toxicity of the legislature. And then I would say,
so there has to be a willingness from the majority
to actually work with the minority, and thus far, you know,
that's kind of ebbed and flowed. But I have said
this actually a couple of times as they've been doing
these interviews. You know, I followed the legislature for a
long time, as I call it, growing up in politics,
(04:51):
and there used to be a desire, like you wanted
to leave your legacy with people saying you were a
statesman right now now you just want to be Internet famous,
and I think that dynamic is a dangerous one, but
also doesn't allow for that camaraderie, for that really the
(05:14):
sense of working together. So I think, you know, the
combination of the Democrats having so much power on all
levels of government, and then on top of that just
the lack of general respect for you can't have nonviolent
political discourse anymore. And I think we're seeing that more
(05:34):
and more. And I think that's a huge disservice to
the people of Colorado, because I do believe most of
them and may you and I about this conversation really
are in the middle.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I agree. I think that one of the things, one
of the positive things that will come out of the
Charlie Kirk assassination is that I do think it opened
a lot of people's eyes to how much oxygen the
fringes are taking when in reality they're looking at their
friends and neighbors and going, holy cow, this is appalling,
(06:04):
whether their neighbor is on the right or the left.
I've gotten emails from people saying I've been talking to
my neighbors who are Democrats and they all have their
Jared Pola signs in the yard and they're as appalled
as I am, which is heartening, right, I mean that
is heartening. So I do think that it's kind of
open the eyes to a lot of people who just
kind of don't pay attention and kind of dial in
right before an election, and I'm hoping that they engage
(06:27):
on a more significant level to say that this is
not okay. I do want to ask you about what
happened at the end of this last legislative session with
the situation with Ryan Armagosh sharing an unflattering photo of
a horrible outfit. I'm just going to say it on
the floor, and you got sucked into this somehow, And
when I heard about it, I was like, huh, that
(06:49):
does not sound like the rows that I know. Can
you give me your version of events there?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I'll give you a kind of the cliff notes version.
The day that picture was taken, I wasn't even at
the legislature. I hardly ever ever miss a day, but
I had something that I could not get out of
and wasn't at the legislature that day.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And then when I found out.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
About it, the majority had asked, you know, can we
can we find out who who Originally it wasn't even
who took the picture as much as who posted it
on the internet, which was kind of where my focus was.
But I didn't figure out who posted it, but I
knew that Rep. Armagost had taken it. I had told
the Majority leader, and then there.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Was no follow up.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Normally I get called into the Speaker's office numerous times
in a day, generally or within a week about something
my members have said or done that has offended another member.
And then nobody asked me about it at all. And
so as far as I was concerned, the matter was over,
and we went on and this is you know, middle
(07:55):
of April, and then you know, right before the special,
and this article was coming out about this picture and
threats that this representative had received and all because of
this picture. And you know, I said then, and I
will continue to say, I mean, I don't agree with
with the way that Rep. Armagust had gone about that.
(08:16):
He and I had had that conversation, but you know,
this representative is a public person in a public place,
also on the Colorado Channel, So like the whole thing
was a little bit odd to me. But then somehow,
you know, the Majority was questioning my integrity publicly lying
(08:36):
about the information I had given and.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Then basically was trying to paint this.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Narrative that I don't care about women, which was really
difficult for me because Mandy, as you said, like you
know me, it's not for those who know everything I
have done, my legislation, everything I have done is to
protect women and children, and so to have that narrative
on me was incredibly difficult. To have my character an
integrity question was incredibly difficult. And it was bad enough
(09:06):
they were doing it in the press, but then to
do it on the house floor on the Colorado Channel, like.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
For posterity was a bridge too far for.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Me, And so then I had to defend myself and
and I feel like I did it. You know, even
the press, I think reported it really accurately. But I
was able to uncover that the majority had had the
footage just a couple of days after that they had
basically lied about it.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And so were they really were they trying to suck
like try and get you to create some cover up
by coming to you later and asking you for help
even though they already knew the whole story. What was that?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
So on the timing I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
They didn't know on that first day, so they they thought.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well, I told them.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But even regardless, they got the footage later that next week,
so they did pull the footage, but they had lied
about when and how they were presenting that information.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
So it was it was really disheartening. I'm not a liar.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I don't. I don't enjoy being called a liar. And
you know, when you make a mistake, you just own
it and move on. And instead they created this controversy
that didn't exist, and I think that was just a real,
a real shame for the institution that you know, like
I said, I grew up in politics admiring.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
The entire situation. Seems that there is a concerted effort
to I'm trying to think of a way to say this
without being offensive to other people that are in the
House of Representatives. You know, Colorado Republicans have a little
bit of a brand issue because of some of the
inflammatory statements and information that have come out of the party,
(10:49):
and it's almost like they're going after a normal Republican
in order to well, we're going to get rid of
Rose so we can now focus on like the people
that are not but that are more on the fringe.
Do you understand what I'm saying with that? Again, I
don't want to insult anyone that's in the legislature, but
there are people that are way far to the right,
and just like there are people that are way far
(11:10):
to the left, and when they're going after people like
you that are there trying to be reasonable and work
on compromise and do the things that I've watched you do,
that seems like a concerted effort to go after someone
that is inconvenient because of your reasonableness.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
Yeah, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
A friend of mine said the other day, You're never
going to really understand the motivation. But it's all politics, right,
and it's really unfortunate for the institution. I think, you know,
I am leaving the House in a better place than
when I found it.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
We've got a really strong caucus. I'm excited to see
what they do next.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
But my leadership will be very different than whoever comes
in next, just because we're different people, right, And I
think I have heard from from both sides that it
will be a very different legislature of this next session.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Do you want to weigh in at all on the
next leadership. Are you out?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So I've gotten some calls, and I keep telling people
I have no vote. I'm not a member of this
caucus anymore. They need to do whatever they think is
best for moving the caucus forward. For me, it's all
about fundraising as much as the internal operations.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Really. You know, I was very blessed.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
To be able to beat fundraising records when I took
over as minority leader.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We broke the super majority. We won back three seats.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
We need to keep those three seats so we don't
go back into the super minority. And you know, and
I have said I am. I am not out of
the fight. I'm just going to fight differently. And I
think it's really important that we invest our time, talent,
and treasure in the House and make sure that it
continues to advance. Rose.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I just got this text that says I am a
constituent in Colorado Springs and had occasion to email her
a few times. She was always prompt, polite and professional
and responding and clearly overwhelmed that while somebody said, three jobs,
how did you juggle all that? Well, it's what moms do,
It's what we do. Rose, so crazy, I hope this
(13:12):
is not the last time you and I crat for sure,
because I'm going to miss you. I think you provided
a wonderful measure of balance and thoughtfulness that is lacking
in our politics today, and I hope that the next
leader can at least pick up that mantle and move
forward and continue the work that you started. I totally
understand why you did what you did, but I'm going
(13:32):
to miss you.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Ah well, I'm going to miss you too, and I
really I'm so grateful to the people of House District
fourteen for continuing to elect me. I know there's a
lot of disappointed people, but you know, I'm putting my
family first and I think it's really important right now.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Rose, thanks so much for your time, and not since
your time on the show, but for all of your
time dedicated to making Colorado a better place to be.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Thanks Rose. That's Rose Puglasi.
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