October 3, 2023 • 35 mins
Host Randy Strobl talks with Grand Valley State University alumni Dan Campbell about his work as a freelance feature film producer at Blue Falcon Productions. They discuss how Dan’s experience as a Marine influenced his approach to college, his first paid job after graduation, his experience working on the Summer Film Project, and the satisfaction of starting his own production company.
Dan Campbell Links:
Blue Falcon Productions: https://www.bluefalconproductions.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bluefalconprods
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BlueFalconProductions/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/bluefalconprods
The Incantation: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5361596/
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3628074
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-campbell-93511655/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dan.campbell.9440
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
Dan Campbell Links:
Blue Falcon Productions: https://www.bluefalconproductions.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bluefalconprods
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BlueFalconProductions/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/bluefalconprods
The Incantation: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5361596/
IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3628074
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-campbell-93511655/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dan.campbell.9440
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
- The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
- GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to Alumni Live (00:03):
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Thanks for tuning in againto the Alumni Live podcast.
We are here with Dan Campbell, he'sa independent feature film producer.
Dan is gonna talk to us all about,the time starting off at Grand Valley
(00:25):
and then all the way to becomingthe award-winning filmmaker he is.
Let's talk about your most recent project.
Tell us, what does your career looklike, in, 2023 as we are right now.
Currently as a freelance feature filmproducer, and producer in general for
entertainment, I have a couple films indevelopment, one that I've written the
screenplay myself, and then, a couple thatmy business partner he has written, we
(00:48):
have in various stages of development.
Then I also have a personalproject that Randy has been part
of that's also had some traction.
A documentary type format.
Why I'm vague on it is because it seemslike it's ever-evolving every day.
The most recent project that I'vecompleted was, last year, I did a feature
film on location in Louisiana . It'sscheduled to be released this fall.
(01:12):
It'll be a theatrical releasealong with some streaming.
But right now I'm kind of in a holdingpattern, in different, various stages
of development with personal projects.
In the last few years I've pivotedmore towards my own creative
projects as opposed to, whatwe call, hired gun projects.
A couple years ago when the pandemicshifted everything, I took that
(01:33):
opportunity to focus more onmy personal creative projects.
I've put a lot of the hiredgun stuff on the back burner.
I don't want to jinx myself, but oneof the projects, the docu-series that
I've been working on is a very personalproject, which is in active development.
I'm actually in discussion witha major cable network right
now, so we'll see how that goes.
Waiting on baited breath with that.
(01:54):
And then the feature films that wehave in development, we're kind of
loosely in talks with getting agreen light on financing those.
It seems like the hired gunstuff is starting to ramp
up again, post pandemic.
A lot of platforms are availablenow, and a lot of 'em need content.
That works seems like it never,never ceases specifically for
line producing or productionmanagement or the logistical side.
(02:16):
There's just always a need for content.
You've got your own personal projects.
You're at a point where thesethings are releasing in theaters.
You're out there, you'rearound, you're making stuff.
But back at the beginning, GrandValley, you graduated in 2010, right?
Yep.
We graduated together.
What was Grand Valley like for you?
What kind of projects were you working on?
What was your student experience there?
my, My experience at Grand Valleywas positive on many fronts.
(02:39):
The quality of the education, thequality of the instructors,
the quality of the equipment.
When we get into specific of filmproduction, it was the best avenue for
me, personally, to get into the business.
A lot of factors go into choosing theroute, and I have this argument all the
time with my current business partnerand other peers in the film business of
(03:02):
"film school" versus "non film school."
And this is where I have abackground in the US military.
I served for a short time.
In the military, specifically the UnitedStates Marine Corps, you have enlisted,
which is your blue collar, and then yourofficers, which is your white collar.
So just like that, in the filmbusiness, you have your above
the line and below the line.
(03:23):
I look at those as parallel.
So what I say is that in the MarineCorps, when you have who's enlisted, and
they cross over into the officer world.
They call it a Mustang, like the horse,and so in the film business, because I
have the foundation of a undergraduatedegree in film and video production,
coupled with on the job experience,that I'm considered a Mustang.
(03:45):
So when I talk with other peers or otherfilmmakers and some who've built a career,
30 plus years with no film school, allthrough on the job training, and those
who have a foundation like myself, thisis kind of like a Mustang version of that.
Everybody has an opinion or an approachto creating their craft, which, the
film business is obviously a craft.
(04:05):
I champion more, the Mustang version.
I feel like the education givesyou a good foundation that you can
build from with on-the-job training,and whatever your passion is.
So it's a classic argument of "nofilm school" versus "film school."
I would be in the camp of, film school ifit fits your scenario, depending on what
your objectives are or what your careergoals are or what you're trying to do
(04:28):
But my personal story is that, I I appliedto Grand Valley, got accepted Grand
Valley, got accepted, to the film major.
and my emphasis was fiction filmmaking
at the time.
So that was a path and journey I took.
And it gave me with the experience,and the instructors, and all
those other assets, the tools,that I could put my toolbox.
Then when I finished my undergraduatedegree, and I was on a film set, I
(04:50):
could go back and use those tools.
And then also coupled with my personalexperience and personal life journey
and apply those to on-the-job training,specifically in feature films.
And then working up the ranks of afeature film crew, below the line,
and then crossing into above the line.
And then where I am now, I can say, I'ma bondable PGA feature film producer.
(05:11):
But how I got to that point wasthrough the beginning of the journey,
through my foundation, working throughthe ranks, and gaining experience,
networking, and learning on the job,and relying on that foundation that
I had started to get me to whereI am, just like any kind of craft.
Whether it's a carpenter ora mason you hone in on it.
And that's the thing with filmmaking,there's so many avenues to go.
(05:34):
Whether it's fiction filmmaking,feature filmmaking, television,
network, documentary, it comesdown to your foundations and your
experiences and your networking.
The bottom line is it's a craft.
Whether you're in front of thecamera, behind the camera, any
of that world, it's a craft.
And through experience and time,you begin to hone that craft.
It's also a passing of knowledge,which is kind of funny cuz it's
(05:55):
all parallel for me with theexperience of the Marine Corps.
Cuz the Marine Corps is big ontradition as well, which is passing
of the knowledge from the oldergeneration to the younger generation.
When you get into feature filmmakingin Hollywood, it's a community
and mentorship because it's such apersonal and passionate craft that
people who are in it for a longtime, it's this intrinsic thing where
(06:15):
they wanna pass the knowledge too.
Never stop asking questions.
If you're looking for advice, there'sbasic things that anybody can
apply that doesn't cost any money.
It's work ethic.
It's the willingness to learn.
You're not punching a clock.
If you're willing to learn, andmake mistakes, and learn from those
mistakes, and have an open mindand adapt, you can do anything.
(06:39):
That goes across any kind of careerpath or craft, but if you can harness
those things for filmmaking business,they will help you leaps and bounds.
I'm living proof of it.
Not to be egotistical or anything,but I grew up in a town of 5,000
people, in rural West Michigan,with a dream to make movies.
And fast forward 14, 15 years later, I'mmaking movies and I'm paying my bills.
(07:00):
If you really want it and yougo after it, it's out there.
We live in a country that affords usthose opportunities if we pursue them.
And that's the whole thing, like in ourconstitution, the pursuit of happiness.
Filmmaking was my passion when I wasyounger and, I just went after it
and I still go after it every day.
To be a freelance filmmaker youonly receive the benefits
(07:21):
for what you put into it.
I have to remind myself that every day,and that's some of the faults to my own.
I'm not the best marketer, andthat's a big thing for our business.
You gotta market yourself, especiallyfreelance and self-employed.
The work isn't gonna come toyou, you have to find the work.
And I always said this too, Ifeel like sometimes, I do
more work finding the work.
(07:42):
And then when I get towork, it's like a pause.
And then, where's thenext paycheck coming from?
But there also has to be thatpassion and that starving artist.
I hate to throw that out,that's pretty cliche too.
But it's time and circumstance too.
When I graduated Grand Valley in 2010with you, Randy we were fortunate
that there was a lot of featurefilm work specifically actually
happening in the state of Michigan.
(08:03):
The film incentives were still active.
They're still robust.
I graduated and within two weeksof finishing Grand Valley, I had my
first paid position on a feature film.
I was hired in the productionoffice of a Hallmark feature film.
Make those connections
Right.
And so that's that whole thing.
It's all about networking.
That's where you have to putin the effort, with networking
and keeping connections.
(08:25):
My business partner, who is also mymentor, we own a production company
and we've produced movies together.
But he's been in thebusiness for 30 plus years.
One day you may have a PA.
There might be somebody underyour supervision that you might
be reporting to on the next job.
You have to keep this Rolodex—nowI'm dating myself —a Rolodex or this
(08:46):
list of contacts, regardless of whattheir position is, at the time when
you meet them and it's this everevolving network that you're creating
in the freelance film world, where, you never know where a contact, is
gonna be an asset or vice versa.
It's kind of like a river, you know?
It just flows.
Yeah, keep all your options open.
Make sure you got good relationships.
Keep all your optionopen, it's relationships.
(09:07):
The business is big on relationships.
My first paid film actually camevia my advisor at Grand Valley.
That's what's wild about it.
Who was that advisor?
Kim Roberts.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Kim, I probablywouldn't be where I'm at right now, along
with everybody else throughout my career,including my family and my support system.
But Kim Roberts, as my advisor, wasvery instrumental in not only shepherding
(09:30):
me through the program, but also sheliterally got me my first paid job.
I had the paycheck stub framed inmy office, which is kind of funny.
She threw my name in the hat whena local producer was looking for
office production assistants.
What was it about you as a student thatyou think Kim Roberts saw and thought she
could trust you in a professional setting?
(09:50):
At that point I had been goingto Grand Valley for a couple
years now and I was a senior.
I had just recently Unit ProductionManaged the summer film, which is a
keystone thing with the film program.
She saw the work I was doing and sheput me in that area of people that
are about to be recent graduates andthrew me in that pool I'd also done
an internship, which I had a prettygood review on, so that helped.
(10:12):
I hit those benchmarks andthen, I was a graduate.
At the time, there was three or fourfilms shooting in the Grand Rapids area.
They were looking for bodiesat the time—we say that in
Marine Corps, bodies—but theywere looking for personnel.
What's funny about that story, isthat whole persistence thing.
I remember she forwarded my resume, andthey reached out to me, it was a small
film, Hallmark films are low budget.
(10:32):
The line producer's like,yeah, come in, interview.
And I remember interviewingand I was like, oh my gosh.
this is a big deal, and this guy who'sa line producer, he's doing a lot of
stuff, in pre-production especially.
So I just remember he's sittingbehind this desk with like three or
four monitors, half listening to me,and I'm sitting there interviewing
for an Office PA, because I thinkhe was, he was also the UPM at
(10:54):
the time, cuz it was a DGA film.
It was like a quick interview.
Done, all right.
And a day or two or three wentby and I hadn't heard anything.
And I was like, oh man.
And this is a coupleweeks after I graduated.
With our profession, it'sso sporadic or unpredictable.
It's freelance, it's self-employed work,
Yeah, it floods when it floodsand it's dry when it's dry.
Yeah.
So this is my first foray into it.
(11:16):
So I follow up and I contacthim and I remember this like
yesterday, it was 14, 15 years ago.
I call him like, "Hey,you know Dan Campbell?
I interviewed for the Office PAposition, just following up."
And he's like, "oh yeah, ohyeah, sorry you're hired.
I forgot to call you."
Like , he was so swamped that healready, in his mind he thought he
checked that box and moved on and hewas like, can you show up tomorrow?
(11:38):
And I'm like, yeah,I'll be there tomorrow.
It was pretty interesting because it'sjust humorous when I think about it
now because now me Line Producing,Producing, I totally understand it.
Yeah.
You've been in that position.
it's, It's like I've been in thatposition where you literally,
it's like the house is on fire,
Yeah.
And, and still have to get yourpaperwork done as the house is on fire.
(11:59):
Yeah, you still have to do paperworkand this and that, pay people and
hire things and shoot a movie.
And so that was my first paid positionon a feature film as an Office PA.
I got on that and met people on thatand then it just like spiderwebbed
from there in the network because aperson I met on that film got hired
on another film right after that.
And then they threw my name in thehat and then I got onto that set.
(12:21):
It kind of domino affected from thereand started building that network.
That's where I honed into the productionside of feature films and narrowing
my focus and my experience from thereon what positions I was applying.
At first I was applying for anythingat that point to get on any set.
And then I startedworking my way up there.
That's a great story and, and I think Ihear two big lessons outta that story.
(12:43):
So you let me know if I'm on theright track here, but it sounds like
one of those is you want to havethat resume ready, throughout
your time at Grand Valley.
So by participating in the SummerFilm, which I have a question
about that when we get there.
And then also, building that resume up.
You made yourself known in classes.
Kim obviously knew who you were.
And then coming out of that persistence.
You made sure that you followed up, anddidn't just wait for him to call you.
(13:06):
Cuz it, it turned out thatit wasn't even on his mind.
He was like, "Oh yeah,get in here tomorrow."
Film production is chaos.
I had this little voice in my headand my wife, but at the time we were
dating, she probably put that bug inmy hear and said "maybe you should
call" or "maybe you should follow up."
Cuz it's not a formalsetting, it is and it isn't.
Outside of the film world, things arevery formal or standard, in the film
(13:28):
world, we could be talking right now, andnot again to sound arrogant or whatever,
but , I could get a call right now froman executive producer or from a production
company that I worked with before,and they're like, "Hey, we got a film.
We're thinking about shooting, youknow, next month in South Africa.
Are you available?"
And I gotta be like,"well, you know sure."
You have to be self-motivated.
(13:49):
Just being self-employed or freelancein general, the more you put into
it, the more you get out of it.
And I'm not perfect.
I know I have my strengths andweaknesses, but persistence, work
ethic, determination, stubbornness,you gotta have the passion.
You gotta want it.
Because I mean, to be honest,this business, everybody
wants to be in show business.
You have to have a desire to make ithappen, the industry is going through
(14:10):
a lot of transitions recently, on allfronts, technology, cultural, everything.
I guess the bottom line wouldbe, you have to be able to adapt.
That's actually the biggest thing.
I'm sure maybe you'veexperienced that with things.
No matter what it is, you haveto adapt to the situation.
It's a fluid work environment for sure.
So being able to adapt on the flyis a skillset across the board,
(14:35):
whether you're the DP, or the CameraAssistant, or a Costume Designer, or a
Production Assistant, or the Director.
You have to adapt, always,because there's plan A and then
there's plan B and plan C, andthen what do you do after that?
You gotta be ready for it all, right?
Ready for it all.
We're taking a short break totell you about the Dirk Koning
(14:56):
Memorial Film and Video scholarship.
Here's Gretchen Vinnedgeremembering Dirk Koning.
The Koning Scholarship enables studentsto get that kind of an education, to be
a good filmmaker, to be able to expresstheir voice and to continue Dirk's dream.
For more information, and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
Now, back to the show.
(15:18):
So that tool specifically, like beingable to adapt, if we're thinking back
to that summer film, "HorizontalAccidents" was that movie, and
I remember you being the UPM.
There was some like wild location thingsthat you had to overcome and put together.
One of the values of being atGrand Valley is, we kind of had this
laboratory where we could experiment,we could try out our different
skills and be in these positions.
(15:39):
Can you talk a little bit about what aUnit Production Manager is and then what
that was like on that summer film, andespecially how those skills help you today
as a Producer who has a, movie comingout with theatrical release pretty soon?
The Summer Film Project was a basictraining, because it immerses you
into that machine of film production.
It gives you the baseline skillsto survive on a real film set.
(16:02):
I did two Summer Films duringmy tenure at Grand Valley.
The first Summer Film I did, I waspart of the Behind the Scenes, which
was great because it allowed me to bea fly on the wall everywhere, which
I think you did that one as well.
I was in the sound department,and similarly, like very
much a fly on the wall.
Like, you know, I'm sittingthere with a boom pole.
We're, done setting up and thenwe just watch the director work.
(16:23):
We watch the DP make decisions.
I definitely recommend doing someof those fly on the wall positions
just to see it.
positions just to see it.
And that's actually what attractedme to Grand Valley the Summer
Film Project piqued my interest.
It was like, oh wow.
So when I get into the programand, I did my first one, I was
part of the Behind the Scenes.
It's just this microcosm ofdifferent experiences which is also
very parallel to a real film set.
(16:44):
And so you have these differentlevels of experience and
different positions and stuff.
The first one I did, I was like, this isgreat, this is definitely what I wanna do.
And then the second feature filmI did was "Horizontal Accidents."
We didn't know each other much beforethe summer film, but people knew
that you were the producer guy.
I don't know the specifics of howyou got to be in that position.
I think I applied for itand, well, that's the thing.
When you go to film school, it's likewhatever your path is to get to there
(17:08):
of your passion, at the time, forme you know, I wanna direct things.
It's the default.
But then once I got into the program,and I started taking the courses, and
I started doing the hands-on, and thenapplying the already baseline skills
that I had from life experience or themilitary, that's when I started to focus
in on the production side of things whenI realized, that was kind of my skillset.
(17:31):
I've never been a tech person,so I started focusing on
production and logistical things.
When I did my different projectsthroughout the program, that's, kind
of where I honed in my skillset.
Then fast forward to my senior yearand getting the position as a Unit
Production Manager, at the time, andthis is where we can toot our horn,
I'm pretty sure that was the firstsummer film shot on a digital format.
(17:53):
Which is perfect for us at the time,getting into the industry to have that,
because that's also a resume thing too.
I did eventually do a 35millimeter film, which was the
hardest film I've ever done.
Which one was that?
That was a feature film Idid in West Michigan, as a
Production Office Coordinator,that shot on 35 millimeter film.
And if you've done a 35 millimetertheatrical film as a Production
(18:15):
Coordinator, it's logistically hell in thewintertime in Michigan on 35 millimeter.
It's just insane.
Sure.
So shooting on a RED wasa very good thing for us.
Now we're students and we're shooting onRED and it's this latest, greatest thing.
I think at the time I don't know ifwe had the biggest budget for a short?
They didn't tell us in the sounddepartment if that was true.
(18:35):
I wanna say it was eitherat or above the usual.
It was kind of a deal.
I do remember that because I had to gowith Kim Roberts, who was a Producer
on it go to budget meetings with GrandValley number crunchers in pre-production.
So that really sets you upthen for executive producing
your own, budget meetings.
So I remember going into thosebudget meetings as a student.
(18:58):
Kim and I, and there's literally 10 peoplein front of us going through the budget
line by line that are not filmmakers, thatare nothing to do with film production.
This one person, I don't know who itwas, but they were like, " Catering.
That's a big line item.
Why do we gotta feed people?"
And Kim and I are like, "An armymoves on its stomach, that's actually
(19:20):
very critical in our industry."
And I do remember thembusting in that line.
One of our largest budgets was catering.
And so things like that as aUPM, producing all that stuff,
now down the line, I can use.
Here I'm in front of 10 Grand Valleyboard members picking apart our budget
that we came up with based on the scriptand the schedule, cuz that's how you
(19:41):
properly do it, script, schedule,budget, and then implement them.
So, then we shoot this shortfilm, it was 10 weeks for 35,000
bucks or something like that.
It was definitely a baptism by firebecause not only was it digital, I
was solely in charge of the budget.
Kim was there too, guiding me, but itwas me with two credit cards issued out
(20:02):
by Grand Valley and we had a LA director.
Yeah, Tom Seidman came in.
So you throw in that and thenwe had a professional DP.
But we shot it in what, 10 days?
Multiple locations.
It was really quick.
It was a 10 day shoot for 35,000, liveaction, digital format, single camera,
(20:23):
stunts, vehicles, multiple locations, ahearse, which I drove when we picked
it up, which was pretty funny to drivea hearse because people are looking at
me when I'm driving it to the S-curve.
Here's this guy in at-shirt , driving a hearse.
It gave me the basic trainingon the production side of things
that definitely I still use today.
You've done the summer film,you've graduated, you're working
(20:44):
on your first Hallmark movie.
Then you start producingsome of your own stuff.
Tell us about some of your first movies.
I did, a handful of featurefilms after I graduated.
Five or six, mainly inproduction side of things.
Office PA, Set PA, AssistantProduction Office Coordinator,
Production Office Coordinator.
Then, the film incentivecollapsed at a certain point.
So the work dried up herespecifically for feature films in
(21:07):
both West and Eastern Michigan.
I want to say it was around 2012, acouple years after graduating, where
I personally had to make a decision,was I going to relocate to a hub?
LA, New York, Atlanta, New Orleans,where films specifically are
happening or TV shows, cuz commercialwork still happens in Michigan.
(21:27):
I looked at Chicago, do I go back, and doa master's degree in producing or an MFA?
I almost applied.
But at some point I decided,okay, I'm gonna move to LA cuz I
had some contacts at this point.
I lived in Los Angeles for at least ayear, and I moved out there classic,
put all my possessions in my vehicle.
I literally had $400 in mychecking account, and I'm
(21:48):
sleeping on an air mattress.
I'm applying for jobs on Craigslist.
I got one paid one, a feature,and then I did one for free.
I did a handful of things andrebuilding my network out there.
There was kind of resurgencein film work back in Michigan.
So I was bouncing back and forthat one point between LA and here.
Building my career.
Working through my ranks, I metanother Producer who was my mentor
(22:11):
and who now is my business partner.
Is that when you startedBlue Falcon Productions?
Yep.
Blue Falcon Productions, whichis the production entity I own.
We're both Freelance, Feature FilmProducers, Line Producers, but that's
our banner that we do our own content
and sometimes production services under.
And I worked my way up.
The first film I produced was an indiefilm that actually got shelved, never
(22:32):
saw the light of day, in Mississippi.
I produced that with my businesspartner and we played multiple hats.
That was when I was 25, and then afterthat, we produced a couple other films
that did get released, and then wedid our own film, "The Incantation".
Can you talk a little bitabout "The Incantation" because
that won some awards, right?
Yep.
So that won some localawards in West Michigan.
(22:53):
It won an Eclipse award for Best Director.
It was a hybrid thing where ourproduction's based out of Michigan, our
production entity, and the Eclipse awardsis a local awards for feature films.
So we were able to qualify for that.
But that film was written anddirected by my business partner, Jude S.
Walko, and I produced it.
It's a horror genre film.
Stars Dean Cain.
We basically pulled a RobertRodriguez, "El Mariachi", type thing.
(23:17):
We had a couple films that we had goneback and forth getting green lights on,
and we went from, one time having a greenlight for like a 5 million budget on
one film and then 300,000 and back andforth and it didn't get into production.
So finally we were just like,okay, we gotta shelve that.
What can we produce now,independently, to brand ourselves
(23:37):
and put ourselves out there?
We had an opportunity to filmon location in France at a
chateau for, inkind, free.
So Jude wrote a script aroundthat location, and then from
there we backed into that.
How much is it gonna cost?
, Horror genre, inexpensive.
What do we need?
Bare bones, what connections can we pull?
(23:59):
We bootstrapped literally an entirefeature film on location in France
starring Dean Cain, former TV Superman.
How did you get in touch with Dean Kane?
Jude had a personal relationship withDean Cain, in that he had worked with him
a couple times prior on films and he hadpulled a scheduling favor for him on one
of those films and Dean never forgot that.
(24:21):
So fast forward we're all pullingour connections at this point.
And Dean would work for this role, let's see if he can help us out.
We got a hold of him.
And sure enough he remembered that favor.
Next thing you know, we had acompleted future film that we shot on
location for 25 days with Dean Cainfor a hundred thousand dollars, US.
It was something that was also likea Summer Film Project for both
(24:42):
of us, cuz this is my businesspartner's directorial debut.
It was our own film under our company.
It was putting us all outthere personally, financially,
and professionally.
We did it.
We bootstrapped distribution on our own.
We got placement with Redbox.
They ordered 50,000 units of this film.
(25:03):
We were told less than 10%independent films get into Redbox.
That was a nice, mark on our beltthat gave us a little morale boost.
We're still in the red onthe film, to be honest.
But that wasn't the point.
The point was that we createdour own original content, we
produced it, we distributed it,we exhibited it, it's out there.
It's that whole Robert Rodriguezmentality, whatever way
you can just make it happen.
(25:24):
It's not the greatest film.
But it's our film.
It's out there.
And then we did a follow up.
Jude directed another film, butthat's still in post-production.
We did that a couple years later.
He's almost done with it,trying to finish it up that we
shot on location, in Thailand.
The bottom line is that,it's a craft, it's a passion.
Put your head down and putyour shoulder to the wheel.
(25:44):
To make your own content,it's a lot of discipline.
And it's a lot of persistence.
That's such a great story too, ofmaking that opportunity happen.
Just seeing what you have in yournetwork and then, just backing into it.
We got, a location.
Who can help us with this?
How do we make it, whatcan we pull together?
And all of a sudden you gotyour first feature film.
Yeah.
And we couldn't have madeit without our network.
(26:05):
And that's the thing, I can't waittill the day we're out of the red
where we can, pay some deferredpayment to crew or vice versa.
The people that helped us with thatfilm were not only professional
colleagues, but they were our friends.
And that's why they helped us too,is they wanted to see us succeed.
And they're all passionateprofessionals themselves.
Everybody from the sound mixer, to theboom operator, to the camera operators,
(26:26):
to the gaffers, all the crew in thecast, and everybody wanted to be there.
They wanted to make a movie.
And that's the bottom line.
They all knew what they were getting into.
It was like, "Hey, do you wanna cometo France and shoot a movie with us?
We'll pay you in some baguettes."
Looking at your IMDB, one movie I'mwondering if you've got a story about
could you talk about "Black Beauty"?
I assume there were, there weresome horses involved with that.
(26:49):
That was an interesting film becausethat was a hired gun project.
We filmed on location as productionservices in Rhode Island.
With Luke Perry and Bruce Davison,
I had never done anything atthat scope with animals.
But we had another Producer, DaveBellino, he owned a horse farm his
daughter and wife were equestrians.
It was challenging andyou're working with animals.
(27:11):
And we were working with minors.
There were stunts as well, butit comes down to leaning on those
professionals having a safe set.
And you're making a movie, it's notlike life or death, so we you know,
adapted the situation with animals.
Network wise, how much do youkeep in touch with alumni?
I try to stay more involved with it.
That's how I'm on this podcast herewith you, Randy, because you decided
(27:31):
to, reach out to me, which I appreciate.
I feel like Grand Valley has alot of resources that I don't
take advantage of as an alumni.
I can definitely be guilty to that.
You should rely on those.
Because I film a lot on location,I never know my schedule.
So it's hard for me sometimesto get involved because I
don't wanna let people down.
I did this one thing at the alumni housea few years back, It was a dinner,
(27:55):
networking thing and I met some greatpeople, talking with students that
were about to graduate and vice versa.
I think I remember helping Suzanne withher resume workshop I think it was.
What are you looking for in resumes?
With film resumes, you have to besuccinct and to the point keep it
one page and highlighting specificthings with your skillset because when
(28:16):
you're a Production Manager and you'reliterally looking at a thousand resumes
for one position, it has to stand out.
It has to be concise.
If I'm looking for PAs, entrylevel positions, what are
at least some foundation theyhave that can get 'em there?
Because I've been in that position.
Do they have set experience, whetherit be student films or internships?
(28:37):
Do they have some on the job experience?
Do they not just have coursework?
Do they also have somereal world experience?
It may not necessarily be film.
Do they have any kind of lifeexperience in similar industries,
they, here did they work?
Retail.
They interact with people.
What's their foundation?
So don't be afraid to putthose things alongside—
Yeah, dont, don't necessarily be afraidto put those things, especially if you had
(29:00):
minimal specific feature film experience.
You might have somethingthat parlays into it.
Because when I applied I think Ihad two internships as a Set PA.
So that probably gave me a littlepush to the top if I have 30 seconds
to look at it, what do I take away?
Could you talk to me a littlebit about work life balance?
You're traveling to differentcities, different countries, how do
you kind of maintain your sanity?
(29:20):
I think in the recent years I've beenworking on that, but my family and
my wife have been very supportivethroughout my entire career.
If I didn't have that supportsystem, I wouldn't be where I'm at.
But it's a balance.
I think in the beginning of mycareer I was so focused on that,
which may be a good thing or badthing, but you definitely have to,
live life too, you know, decompress.
(29:40):
And I think for me, specifically withmy background in the military, you
have to know what your limits are,cuz when it starts affecting your
work, are you getting adequate sleep?
Is your work suffering from it?
You have to be able to balance.
Also with feature films, I comparefeature films to commercial work, it's
like a sprint versus cross country trek.
Commercials are sprints, feature filmsare like cross country endurance.
(30:01):
You have to balance thosetwo different worlds.
I gravitate more towards the enduranceside of things like feature films, and
that's just whatever your skillset is.
You have to discover that on your own.
Because I know commercial Producersthat are like, they outproduced me
big time when it comes to commercials.
Like I can't believe whatthey do in like three days.
(30:22):
Pulling crazy things together?
Yeah.
But then, I could produce a film in25 days in my sleep, and they're like,
"Whoa, producing a film for 25 days.
That's like outta my lane!"
You have to figure out whereyou fit, in that puzzle.
Totally.
I have a real good friend.
She's a great commercial producerand that's primarily been her career
and she produces big campaigns in LAI slept on her couch when I started
(30:44):
out, when we first met on a commercial.
We stay in touch all the time.
She's trying to transitioninto directing feature films.
So I've helped her create scenariosfor feature films and stuff.
But yeah, the commercial world sometimesis kind of foreign to me in that aspect.
In the feature film world,can you take us through your
position from pre-production,production, to post-production?
As a producer, it's a balanceof both business and creative.
(31:08):
setting goals or benchmarks,staying on task help a lot.
You come up with a concept, yourscript is your architectural
plans, it's your foundation.
And then from there, howdo we shoot this film?
This is how we shootthe film, logistically.
Now we see how the film is broken down.
Each of these are phases, right?
Let's just say financing is done.
(31:28):
Now how are we gonna pay for thefilm budget-wise with the financing?
And that's the thing withindependent film, we're talking
budgets below 10 million dollars.
We're not talking studio films.
You can't throw money at the problem.
You have to figure out, the compromise of,the financial, logistical, and creative.
You come up with those three phases,script, schedule, and budget.
(31:49):
Now we have to implement those, and that'swhere it comes in with your key personnel.
As long as everybody's on thesame page with these, parameters,
then you go to implement themand you move into pre-production.
So producing a lot of your work isin prep, because the more prep you
do the smoother the shoot goes.
But we all know there's Murphy's Lawand that's where experience comes in.
(32:09):
You do it enough times, you getahead of those Murphy's Law.
You start implementing different,tactics or procedures, you
lean on your department heads.
You all come together as a team, andthen you get into the production.
At this point in my world, keepthe cameras rolling, get the film.
What are things that would stop that?
Well, there's so many variables.
Depending on the script,depending on the location.
(32:33):
You're dealing with weather.
If I'm shooting an action film inMichigan in winter, I know my camera
batteries are gonna freeze, so Ineed to have a vehicle on standby
to keep the camera batteries warm.
All these logistical things, Ineed to get ahead of those
to keep the machine moving.
That's the logistical side of it.
The creative side would be "oh, thesnow looks great, you know, on camera."
(32:53):
You get through the production phase,and depending on your position on
there, if you're a lead producer,then you're carrying it on into post.
And then is distribution negotiatedahead of time with what they
call pre-sales, or are you takingthis film out to the market?
That really depends on how thefilm was set up in the beginning
on that backend for distribution.
Cuz a Lot of independent filmsare pre-sold to get financing.
(33:15):
There's the domestic market, whichis Canada and US, and technically
Mexico is considered a Latin America,and then you have foreign markets.
For our film, we didn't pre-sell ourfilm, but we went and got Dean Cain on our
own and we privately financed the film.
Go out to the free agent market,American Film Market, can we get sales
from that or distribution from that?
(33:35):
And that's what we did.
There's a lot of different avenuesfor distribution for independent film.
Studios, have thingsslated out ahead of time.
It's more a corporation business setup,but independent films are more, organic.
That's really what dictates alot of it is what is the story?
What is the genre?
What are you trying to tell?
I know a few filmmakers that havemade some great films, but it's
(33:55):
like, well, what's your audience?
It wasn't followed throughall the way on that end.
As we wrap up here, if you have anyother stories, I'd love to hear 'em.
We've covered a lot so far.
The bottom line is, if it's somethingyou're passionate about, pursue it.
At the end of the day, determinewhat's best for yourself.
You gotta find where you fit or whatfeels right for you, and do that.
(34:17):
There's no right or wrong answer.
I like to end with having you bragabout something you're like super,
proud of, or a problem that yousolved do you have, something off
the top of your head you're feelingreally proud of, you wanna talk about?
I mean, I, I am proud of shootingIncantation because it was a once in
a lifetime experience where we truly,as filmmakers reported to ourselves.
(34:38):
Though we had limited resources, wemade a film that we wanted to make.
At the time it was like,"What are we doing?"
We're taking this financial risk,but we have a film that we shot and
it's very stylized, it's unique.
We shot in a unique location.
It may not be the most interesting or,Oscar-winning performance film, but it's
(34:59):
a film that we made that will outlive us.
It's available currently on mostmainstream, streaming platforms
like Amazon, iTunes, it might beon some Roku channels, some Tubi.
If you Google "TheIncantation," it's out there.
And where can people follow you?
Follow Blue Falcon Productionson Facebook, or Instagram, Twitter.
(35:21):
I'm on Facebook, IMDB.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
There is no manual.
That's great.
Well, thanks so much, Dan.
Yeah.
Thanks Randy.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
(35:44):
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm/Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Thanks for tuning in againto the Alumni Live podcast.
We are here with Dan Campbell, he'sa independent feature film producer.
Dan is gonna talk to us all about,the time starting off at Grand Valley
(00:25):
and then all the way to becomingthe award-winning filmmaker he is.
Let's talk about your most recent project.
Tell us, what does your career looklike, in, 2023 as we are right now.
Currently as a freelance feature filmproducer, and producer in general for
entertainment, I have a couple films indevelopment, one that I've written the
screenplay myself, and then, a couple thatmy business partner he has written, we
(00:48):
have in various stages of development.
Then I also have a personalproject that Randy has been part
of that's also had some traction.
A documentary type format.
Why I'm vague on it is because it seemslike it's ever-evolving every day.
The most recent project that I'vecompleted was, last year, I did a feature
film on location in Louisiana . It'sscheduled to be released this fall.
(01:12):
It'll be a theatrical releasealong with some streaming.
But right now I'm kind of in a holdingpattern, in different, various stages
of development with personal projects.
In the last few years I've pivotedmore towards my own creative
projects as opposed to, whatwe call, hired gun projects.
A couple years ago when the pandemicshifted everything, I took that
(01:33):
opportunity to focus more onmy personal creative projects.
I've put a lot of the hiredgun stuff on the back burner.
I don't want to jinx myself, but oneof the projects, the docu-series that
I've been working on is a very personalproject, which is in active development.
I'm actually in discussion witha major cable network right
now, so we'll see how that goes.
Waiting on baited breath with that.
(01:54):
And then the feature films that wehave in development, we're kind of
loosely in talks with getting agreen light on financing those.
It seems like the hired gunstuff is starting to ramp
up again, post pandemic.
A lot of platforms are availablenow, and a lot of 'em need content.
That works seems like it never,never ceases specifically for
line producing or productionmanagement or the logistical side.
(02:16):
There's just always a need for content.
You've got your own personal projects.
You're at a point where thesethings are releasing in theaters.
You're out there, you'rearound, you're making stuff.
But back at the beginning, GrandValley, you graduated in 2010, right?
Yep.
We graduated together.
What was Grand Valley like for you?
What kind of projects were you working on?
What was your student experience there?
my, My experience at Grand Valleywas positive on many fronts.
(02:39):
The quality of the education, thequality of the instructors,
the quality of the equipment.
When we get into specific of filmproduction, it was the best avenue for
me, personally, to get into the business.
A lot of factors go into choosing theroute, and I have this argument all the
time with my current business partnerand other peers in the film business of
(03:02):
"film school" versus "non film school."
And this is where I have abackground in the US military.
I served for a short time.
In the military, specifically the UnitedStates Marine Corps, you have enlisted,
which is your blue collar, and then yourofficers, which is your white collar.
So just like that, in the filmbusiness, you have your above
the line and below the line.
(03:23):
I look at those as parallel.
So what I say is that in the MarineCorps, when you have who's enlisted, and
they cross over into the officer world.
They call it a Mustang, like the horse,and so in the film business, because I
have the foundation of a undergraduatedegree in film and video production,
coupled with on the job experience,that I'm considered a Mustang.
(03:45):
So when I talk with other peers or otherfilmmakers and some who've built a career,
30 plus years with no film school, allthrough on the job training, and those
who have a foundation like myself, thisis kind of like a Mustang version of that.
Everybody has an opinion or an approachto creating their craft, which, the
film business is obviously a craft.
(04:05):
I champion more, the Mustang version.
I feel like the education givesyou a good foundation that you can
build from with on-the-job training,and whatever your passion is.
So it's a classic argument of "nofilm school" versus "film school."
I would be in the camp of, film school ifit fits your scenario, depending on what
your objectives are or what your careergoals are or what you're trying to do
(04:28):
But my personal story is that, I I appliedto Grand Valley, got accepted Grand
Valley, got accepted, to the film major.
and my emphasis was fiction filmmaking
at the time.
So that was a path and journey I took.
And it gave me with the experience,and the instructors, and all
those other assets, the tools,that I could put my toolbox.
Then when I finished my undergraduatedegree, and I was on a film set, I
(04:50):
could go back and use those tools.
And then also coupled with my personalexperience and personal life journey
and apply those to on-the-job training,specifically in feature films.
And then working up the ranks of afeature film crew, below the line,
and then crossing into above the line.
And then where I am now, I can say, I'ma bondable PGA feature film producer.
(05:11):
But how I got to that point wasthrough the beginning of the journey,
through my foundation, working throughthe ranks, and gaining experience,
networking, and learning on the job,and relying on that foundation that
I had started to get me to whereI am, just like any kind of craft.
Whether it's a carpenter ora mason you hone in on it.
And that's the thing with filmmaking,there's so many avenues to go.
(05:34):
Whether it's fiction filmmaking,feature filmmaking, television,
network, documentary, it comesdown to your foundations and your
experiences and your networking.
The bottom line is it's a craft.
Whether you're in front of thecamera, behind the camera, any
of that world, it's a craft.
And through experience and time,you begin to hone that craft.
It's also a passing of knowledge,which is kind of funny cuz it's
(05:55):
all parallel for me with theexperience of the Marine Corps.
Cuz the Marine Corps is big ontradition as well, which is passing
of the knowledge from the oldergeneration to the younger generation.
When you get into feature filmmakingin Hollywood, it's a community
and mentorship because it's such apersonal and passionate craft that
people who are in it for a longtime, it's this intrinsic thing where
(06:15):
they wanna pass the knowledge too.
Never stop asking questions.
If you're looking for advice, there'sbasic things that anybody can
apply that doesn't cost any money.
It's work ethic.
It's the willingness to learn.
You're not punching a clock.
If you're willing to learn, andmake mistakes, and learn from those
mistakes, and have an open mindand adapt, you can do anything.
(06:39):
That goes across any kind of careerpath or craft, but if you can harness
those things for filmmaking business,they will help you leaps and bounds.
I'm living proof of it.
Not to be egotistical or anything,but I grew up in a town of 5,000
people, in rural West Michigan,with a dream to make movies.
And fast forward 14, 15 years later, I'mmaking movies and I'm paying my bills.
(07:00):
If you really want it and yougo after it, it's out there.
We live in a country that affords usthose opportunities if we pursue them.
And that's the whole thing, like in ourconstitution, the pursuit of happiness.
Filmmaking was my passion when I wasyounger and, I just went after it
and I still go after it every day.
To be a freelance filmmaker youonly receive the benefits
(07:21):
for what you put into it.
I have to remind myself that every day,and that's some of the faults to my own.
I'm not the best marketer, andthat's a big thing for our business.
You gotta market yourself, especiallyfreelance and self-employed.
The work isn't gonna come toyou, you have to find the work.
And I always said this too, Ifeel like sometimes, I do
more work finding the work.
(07:42):
And then when I get towork, it's like a pause.
And then, where's thenext paycheck coming from?
But there also has to be thatpassion and that starving artist.
I hate to throw that out,that's pretty cliche too.
But it's time and circumstance too.
When I graduated Grand Valley in 2010with you, Randy we were fortunate
that there was a lot of featurefilm work specifically actually
happening in the state of Michigan.
(08:03):
The film incentives were still active.
They're still robust.
I graduated and within two weeksof finishing Grand Valley, I had my
first paid position on a feature film.
I was hired in the productionoffice of a Hallmark feature film.
Make those connections
Right.
And so that's that whole thing.
It's all about networking.
That's where you have to putin the effort, with networking
and keeping connections.
(08:25):
My business partner, who is also mymentor, we own a production company
and we've produced movies together.
But he's been in thebusiness for 30 plus years.
One day you may have a PA.
There might be somebody underyour supervision that you might
be reporting to on the next job.
You have to keep this Rolodex—nowI'm dating myself —a Rolodex or this
(08:46):
list of contacts, regardless of whattheir position is, at the time when
you meet them and it's this everevolving network that you're creating
in the freelance film world, where, you never know where a contact, is
gonna be an asset or vice versa.
It's kind of like a river, you know?
It just flows.
Yeah, keep all your options open.
Make sure you got good relationships.
Keep all your optionopen, it's relationships.
(09:07):
The business is big on relationships.
My first paid film actually camevia my advisor at Grand Valley.
That's what's wild about it.
Who was that advisor?
Kim Roberts.
Honestly, if it wasn't for Kim, I probablywouldn't be where I'm at right now, along
with everybody else throughout my career,including my family and my support system.
But Kim Roberts, as my advisor, wasvery instrumental in not only shepherding
(09:30):
me through the program, but also sheliterally got me my first paid job.
I had the paycheck stub framed inmy office, which is kind of funny.
She threw my name in the hat whena local producer was looking for
office production assistants.
What was it about you as a student thatyou think Kim Roberts saw and thought she
could trust you in a professional setting?
(09:50):
At that point I had been goingto Grand Valley for a couple
years now and I was a senior.
I had just recently Unit ProductionManaged the summer film, which is a
keystone thing with the film program.
She saw the work I was doing and sheput me in that area of people that
are about to be recent graduates andthrew me in that pool I'd also done
an internship, which I had a prettygood review on, so that helped.
(10:12):
I hit those benchmarks andthen, I was a graduate.
At the time, there was three or fourfilms shooting in the Grand Rapids area.
They were looking for bodiesat the time—we say that in
Marine Corps, bodies—but theywere looking for personnel.
What's funny about that story, isthat whole persistence thing.
I remember she forwarded my resume, andthey reached out to me, it was a small
film, Hallmark films are low budget.
(10:32):
The line producer's like,yeah, come in, interview.
And I remember interviewingand I was like, oh my gosh.
this is a big deal, and this guy who'sa line producer, he's doing a lot of
stuff, in pre-production especially.
So I just remember he's sittingbehind this desk with like three or
four monitors, half listening to me,and I'm sitting there interviewing
for an Office PA, because I thinkhe was, he was also the UPM at
(10:54):
the time, cuz it was a DGA film.
It was like a quick interview.
Done, all right.
And a day or two or three wentby and I hadn't heard anything.
And I was like, oh man.
And this is a coupleweeks after I graduated.
With our profession, it'sso sporadic or unpredictable.
It's freelance, it's self-employed work,
Yeah, it floods when it floodsand it's dry when it's dry.
Yeah.
So this is my first foray into it.
(11:16):
So I follow up and I contacthim and I remember this like
yesterday, it was 14, 15 years ago.
I call him like, "Hey,you know Dan Campbell?
I interviewed for the Office PAposition, just following up."
And he's like, "oh yeah, ohyeah, sorry you're hired.
I forgot to call you."
Like , he was so swamped that healready, in his mind he thought he
checked that box and moved on and hewas like, can you show up tomorrow?
(11:38):
And I'm like, yeah,I'll be there tomorrow.
It was pretty interesting because it'sjust humorous when I think about it
now because now me Line Producing,Producing, I totally understand it.
Yeah.
You've been in that position.
it's, It's like I've been in thatposition where you literally,
it's like the house is on fire,
Yeah.
And, and still have to get yourpaperwork done as the house is on fire.
(11:59):
Yeah, you still have to do paperworkand this and that, pay people and
hire things and shoot a movie.
And so that was my first paid positionon a feature film as an Office PA.
I got on that and met people on thatand then it just like spiderwebbed
from there in the network because aperson I met on that film got hired
on another film right after that.
And then they threw my name in thehat and then I got onto that set.
(12:21):
It kind of domino affected from thereand started building that network.
That's where I honed into the productionside of feature films and narrowing
my focus and my experience from thereon what positions I was applying.
At first I was applying for anythingat that point to get on any set.
And then I startedworking my way up there.
That's a great story and, and I think Ihear two big lessons outta that story.
(12:43):
So you let me know if I'm on theright track here, but it sounds like
one of those is you want to havethat resume ready, throughout
your time at Grand Valley.
So by participating in the SummerFilm, which I have a question
about that when we get there.
And then also, building that resume up.
You made yourself known in classes.
Kim obviously knew who you were.
And then coming out of that persistence.
You made sure that you followed up, anddidn't just wait for him to call you.
(13:06):
Cuz it, it turned out thatit wasn't even on his mind.
He was like, "Oh yeah,get in here tomorrow."
Film production is chaos.
I had this little voice in my headand my wife, but at the time we were
dating, she probably put that bug inmy hear and said "maybe you should
call" or "maybe you should follow up."
Cuz it's not a formalsetting, it is and it isn't.
Outside of the film world, things arevery formal or standard, in the film
(13:28):
world, we could be talking right now, andnot again to sound arrogant or whatever,
but , I could get a call right now froman executive producer or from a production
company that I worked with before,and they're like, "Hey, we got a film.
We're thinking about shooting, youknow, next month in South Africa.
Are you available?"
And I gotta be like,"well, you know sure."
You have to be self-motivated.
(13:49):
Just being self-employed or freelancein general, the more you put into
it, the more you get out of it.
And I'm not perfect.
I know I have my strengths andweaknesses, but persistence, work
ethic, determination, stubbornness,you gotta have the passion.
You gotta want it.
Because I mean, to be honest,this business, everybody
wants to be in show business.
You have to have a desire to make ithappen, the industry is going through
(14:10):
a lot of transitions recently, on allfronts, technology, cultural, everything.
I guess the bottom line wouldbe, you have to be able to adapt.
That's actually the biggest thing.
I'm sure maybe you'veexperienced that with things.
No matter what it is, you haveto adapt to the situation.
It's a fluid work environment for sure.
So being able to adapt on the flyis a skillset across the board,
(14:35):
whether you're the DP, or the CameraAssistant, or a Costume Designer, or a
Production Assistant, or the Director.
You have to adapt, always,because there's plan A and then
there's plan B and plan C, andthen what do you do after that?
You gotta be ready for it all, right?
Ready for it all.
We're taking a short break totell you about the Dirk Koning
(14:56):
Memorial Film and Video scholarship.
Here's Gretchen Vinnedgeremembering Dirk Koning.
The Koning Scholarship enables studentsto get that kind of an education, to be
a good filmmaker, to be able to expresstheir voice and to continue Dirk's dream.
For more information, and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
Now, back to the show.
(15:18):
So that tool specifically, like beingable to adapt, if we're thinking back
to that summer film, "HorizontalAccidents" was that movie, and
I remember you being the UPM.
There was some like wild location thingsthat you had to overcome and put together.
One of the values of being atGrand Valley is, we kind of had this
laboratory where we could experiment,we could try out our different
skills and be in these positions.
(15:39):
Can you talk a little bit about what aUnit Production Manager is and then what
that was like on that summer film, andespecially how those skills help you today
as a Producer who has a, movie comingout with theatrical release pretty soon?
The Summer Film Project was a basictraining, because it immerses you
into that machine of film production.
It gives you the baseline skillsto survive on a real film set.
(16:02):
I did two Summer Films duringmy tenure at Grand Valley.
The first Summer Film I did, I waspart of the Behind the Scenes, which
was great because it allowed me to bea fly on the wall everywhere, which
I think you did that one as well.
I was in the sound department,and similarly, like very
much a fly on the wall.
Like, you know, I'm sittingthere with a boom pole.
We're, done setting up and thenwe just watch the director work.
(16:23):
We watch the DP make decisions.
I definitely recommend doing someof those fly on the wall positions
just to see it.
positions just to see it.
And that's actually what attractedme to Grand Valley the Summer
Film Project piqued my interest.
It was like, oh wow.
So when I get into the programand, I did my first one, I was
part of the Behind the Scenes.
It's just this microcosm ofdifferent experiences which is also
very parallel to a real film set.
(16:44):
And so you have these differentlevels of experience and
different positions and stuff.
The first one I did, I was like, this isgreat, this is definitely what I wanna do.
And then the second feature filmI did was "Horizontal Accidents."
We didn't know each other much beforethe summer film, but people knew
that you were the producer guy.
I don't know the specifics of howyou got to be in that position.
I think I applied for itand, well, that's the thing.
When you go to film school, it's likewhatever your path is to get to there
(17:08):
of your passion, at the time, forme you know, I wanna direct things.
It's the default.
But then once I got into the program,and I started taking the courses, and
I started doing the hands-on, and thenapplying the already baseline skills
that I had from life experience or themilitary, that's when I started to focus
in on the production side of things whenI realized, that was kind of my skillset.
(17:31):
I've never been a tech person,so I started focusing on
production and logistical things.
When I did my different projectsthroughout the program, that's, kind
of where I honed in my skillset.
Then fast forward to my senior yearand getting the position as a Unit
Production Manager, at the time, andthis is where we can toot our horn,
I'm pretty sure that was the firstsummer film shot on a digital format.
(17:53):
Which is perfect for us at the time,getting into the industry to have that,
because that's also a resume thing too.
I did eventually do a 35millimeter film, which was the
hardest film I've ever done.
Which one was that?
That was a feature film Idid in West Michigan, as a
Production Office Coordinator,that shot on 35 millimeter film.
And if you've done a 35 millimetertheatrical film as a Production
(18:15):
Coordinator, it's logistically hell in thewintertime in Michigan on 35 millimeter.
It's just insane.
Sure.
So shooting on a RED wasa very good thing for us.
Now we're students and we're shooting onRED and it's this latest, greatest thing.
I think at the time I don't know ifwe had the biggest budget for a short?
They didn't tell us in the sounddepartment if that was true.
(18:35):
I wanna say it was eitherat or above the usual.
It was kind of a deal.
I do remember that because I had to gowith Kim Roberts, who was a Producer
on it go to budget meetings with GrandValley number crunchers in pre-production.
So that really sets you upthen for executive producing
your own, budget meetings.
So I remember going into thosebudget meetings as a student.
(18:58):
Kim and I, and there's literally 10 peoplein front of us going through the budget
line by line that are not filmmakers, thatare nothing to do with film production.
This one person, I don't know who itwas, but they were like, " Catering.
That's a big line item.
Why do we gotta feed people?"
And Kim and I are like, "An armymoves on its stomach, that's actually
(19:20):
very critical in our industry."
And I do remember thembusting in that line.
One of our largest budgets was catering.
And so things like that as aUPM, producing all that stuff,
now down the line, I can use.
Here I'm in front of 10 Grand Valleyboard members picking apart our budget
that we came up with based on the scriptand the schedule, cuz that's how you
(19:41):
properly do it, script, schedule,budget, and then implement them.
So, then we shoot this shortfilm, it was 10 weeks for 35,000
bucks or something like that.
It was definitely a baptism by firebecause not only was it digital, I
was solely in charge of the budget.
Kim was there too, guiding me, but itwas me with two credit cards issued out
(20:02):
by Grand Valley and we had a LA director.
Yeah, Tom Seidman came in.
So you throw in that and thenwe had a professional DP.
But we shot it in what, 10 days?
Multiple locations.
It was really quick.
It was a 10 day shoot for 35,000, liveaction, digital format, single camera,
(20:23):
stunts, vehicles, multiple locations, ahearse, which I drove when we picked
it up, which was pretty funny to drivea hearse because people are looking at
me when I'm driving it to the S-curve.
Here's this guy in at-shirt , driving a hearse.
It gave me the basic trainingon the production side of things
that definitely I still use today.
You've done the summer film,you've graduated, you're working
(20:44):
on your first Hallmark movie.
Then you start producingsome of your own stuff.
Tell us about some of your first movies.
I did, a handful of featurefilms after I graduated.
Five or six, mainly inproduction side of things.
Office PA, Set PA, AssistantProduction Office Coordinator,
Production Office Coordinator.
Then, the film incentivecollapsed at a certain point.
So the work dried up herespecifically for feature films in
(21:07):
both West and Eastern Michigan.
I want to say it was around 2012, acouple years after graduating, where
I personally had to make a decision,was I going to relocate to a hub?
LA, New York, Atlanta, New Orleans,where films specifically are
happening or TV shows, cuz commercialwork still happens in Michigan.
(21:27):
I looked at Chicago, do I go back, and doa master's degree in producing or an MFA?
I almost applied.
But at some point I decided,okay, I'm gonna move to LA cuz I
had some contacts at this point.
I lived in Los Angeles for at least ayear, and I moved out there classic,
put all my possessions in my vehicle.
I literally had $400 in mychecking account, and I'm
(21:48):
sleeping on an air mattress.
I'm applying for jobs on Craigslist.
I got one paid one, a feature,and then I did one for free.
I did a handful of things andrebuilding my network out there.
There was kind of resurgencein film work back in Michigan.
So I was bouncing back and forthat one point between LA and here.
Building my career.
Working through my ranks, I metanother Producer who was my mentor
(22:11):
and who now is my business partner.
Is that when you startedBlue Falcon Productions?
Yep.
Blue Falcon Productions, whichis the production entity I own.
We're both Freelance, Feature FilmProducers, Line Producers, but that's
our banner that we do our own content
and sometimes production services under.
And I worked my way up.
The first film I produced was an indiefilm that actually got shelved, never
(22:32):
saw the light of day, in Mississippi.
I produced that with my businesspartner and we played multiple hats.
That was when I was 25, and then afterthat, we produced a couple other films
that did get released, and then wedid our own film, "The Incantation".
Can you talk a little bitabout "The Incantation" because
that won some awards, right?
Yep.
So that won some localawards in West Michigan.
(22:53):
It won an Eclipse award for Best Director.
It was a hybrid thing where ourproduction's based out of Michigan, our
production entity, and the Eclipse awardsis a local awards for feature films.
So we were able to qualify for that.
But that film was written anddirected by my business partner, Jude S.
Walko, and I produced it.
It's a horror genre film.
Stars Dean Cain.
We basically pulled a RobertRodriguez, "El Mariachi", type thing.
(23:17):
We had a couple films that we had goneback and forth getting green lights on,
and we went from, one time having a greenlight for like a 5 million budget on
one film and then 300,000 and back andforth and it didn't get into production.
So finally we were just like,okay, we gotta shelve that.
What can we produce now,independently, to brand ourselves
(23:37):
and put ourselves out there?
We had an opportunity to filmon location in France at a
chateau for, inkind, free.
So Jude wrote a script aroundthat location, and then from
there we backed into that.
How much is it gonna cost?
, Horror genre, inexpensive.
What do we need?
Bare bones, what connections can we pull?
(23:59):
We bootstrapped literally an entirefeature film on location in France
starring Dean Cain, former TV Superman.
How did you get in touch with Dean Kane?
Jude had a personal relationship withDean Cain, in that he had worked with him
a couple times prior on films and he hadpulled a scheduling favor for him on one
of those films and Dean never forgot that.
(24:21):
So fast forward we're all pullingour connections at this point.
And Dean would work for this role, let's see if he can help us out.
We got a hold of him.
And sure enough he remembered that favor.
Next thing you know, we had acompleted future film that we shot on
location for 25 days with Dean Cainfor a hundred thousand dollars, US.
It was something that was also likea Summer Film Project for both
(24:42):
of us, cuz this is my businesspartner's directorial debut.
It was our own film under our company.
It was putting us all outthere personally, financially,
and professionally.
We did it.
We bootstrapped distribution on our own.
We got placement with Redbox.
They ordered 50,000 units of this film.
(25:03):
We were told less than 10%independent films get into Redbox.
That was a nice, mark on our beltthat gave us a little morale boost.
We're still in the red onthe film, to be honest.
But that wasn't the point.
The point was that we createdour own original content, we
produced it, we distributed it,we exhibited it, it's out there.
It's that whole Robert Rodriguezmentality, whatever way
you can just make it happen.
(25:24):
It's not the greatest film.
But it's our film.
It's out there.
And then we did a follow up.
Jude directed another film, butthat's still in post-production.
We did that a couple years later.
He's almost done with it,trying to finish it up that we
shot on location, in Thailand.
The bottom line is that,it's a craft, it's a passion.
Put your head down and putyour shoulder to the wheel.
(25:44):
To make your own content,it's a lot of discipline.
And it's a lot of persistence.
That's such a great story too, ofmaking that opportunity happen.
Just seeing what you have in yournetwork and then, just backing into it.
We got, a location.
Who can help us with this?
How do we make it, whatcan we pull together?
And all of a sudden you gotyour first feature film.
Yeah.
And we couldn't have madeit without our network.
(26:05):
And that's the thing, I can't waittill the day we're out of the red
where we can, pay some deferredpayment to crew or vice versa.
The people that helped us with thatfilm were not only professional
colleagues, but they were our friends.
And that's why they helped us too,is they wanted to see us succeed.
And they're all passionateprofessionals themselves.
Everybody from the sound mixer, to theboom operator, to the camera operators,
(26:26):
to the gaffers, all the crew in thecast, and everybody wanted to be there.
They wanted to make a movie.
And that's the bottom line.
They all knew what they were getting into.
It was like, "Hey, do you wanna cometo France and shoot a movie with us?
We'll pay you in some baguettes."
Looking at your IMDB, one movie I'mwondering if you've got a story about
could you talk about "Black Beauty"?
I assume there were, there weresome horses involved with that.
(26:49):
That was an interesting film becausethat was a hired gun project.
We filmed on location as productionservices in Rhode Island.
With Luke Perry and Bruce Davison,
I had never done anything atthat scope with animals.
But we had another Producer, DaveBellino, he owned a horse farm his
daughter and wife were equestrians.
It was challenging andyou're working with animals.
(27:11):
And we were working with minors.
There were stunts as well, butit comes down to leaning on those
professionals having a safe set.
And you're making a movie, it's notlike life or death, so we you know,
adapted the situation with animals.
Network wise, how much do youkeep in touch with alumni?
I try to stay more involved with it.
That's how I'm on this podcast herewith you, Randy, because you decided
(27:31):
to, reach out to me, which I appreciate.
I feel like Grand Valley has alot of resources that I don't
take advantage of as an alumni.
I can definitely be guilty to that.
You should rely on those.
Because I film a lot on location,I never know my schedule.
So it's hard for me sometimesto get involved because I
don't wanna let people down.
I did this one thing at the alumni housea few years back, It was a dinner,
(27:55):
networking thing and I met some greatpeople, talking with students that
were about to graduate and vice versa.
I think I remember helping Suzanne withher resume workshop I think it was.
What are you looking for in resumes?
With film resumes, you have to besuccinct and to the point keep it
one page and highlighting specificthings with your skillset because when
(28:16):
you're a Production Manager and you'reliterally looking at a thousand resumes
for one position, it has to stand out.
It has to be concise.
If I'm looking for PAs, entrylevel positions, what are
at least some foundation theyhave that can get 'em there?
Because I've been in that position.
Do they have set experience, whetherit be student films or internships?
(28:37):
Do they have some on the job experience?
Do they not just have coursework?
Do they also have somereal world experience?
It may not necessarily be film.
Do they have any kind of lifeexperience in similar industries,
they, here did they work?
Retail.
They interact with people.
What's their foundation?
So don't be afraid to putthose things alongside—
Yeah, dont, don't necessarily be afraidto put those things, especially if you had
(29:00):
minimal specific feature film experience.
You might have somethingthat parlays into it.
Because when I applied I think Ihad two internships as a Set PA.
So that probably gave me a littlepush to the top if I have 30 seconds
to look at it, what do I take away?
Could you talk to me a littlebit about work life balance?
You're traveling to differentcities, different countries, how do
you kind of maintain your sanity?
(29:20):
I think in the recent years I've beenworking on that, but my family and
my wife have been very supportivethroughout my entire career.
If I didn't have that supportsystem, I wouldn't be where I'm at.
But it's a balance.
I think in the beginning of mycareer I was so focused on that,
which may be a good thing or badthing, but you definitely have to,
live life too, you know, decompress.
(29:40):
And I think for me, specifically withmy background in the military, you
have to know what your limits are,cuz when it starts affecting your
work, are you getting adequate sleep?
Is your work suffering from it?
You have to be able to balance.
Also with feature films, I comparefeature films to commercial work, it's
like a sprint versus cross country trek.
Commercials are sprints, feature filmsare like cross country endurance.
(30:01):
You have to balance thosetwo different worlds.
I gravitate more towards the enduranceside of things like feature films, and
that's just whatever your skillset is.
You have to discover that on your own.
Because I know commercial Producersthat are like, they outproduced me
big time when it comes to commercials.
Like I can't believe whatthey do in like three days.
(30:22):
Pulling crazy things together?
Yeah.
But then, I could produce a film in25 days in my sleep, and they're like,
"Whoa, producing a film for 25 days.
That's like outta my lane!"
You have to figure out whereyou fit, in that puzzle.
Totally.
I have a real good friend.
She's a great commercial producerand that's primarily been her career
and she produces big campaigns in LAI slept on her couch when I started
(30:44):
out, when we first met on a commercial.
We stay in touch all the time.
She's trying to transitioninto directing feature films.
So I've helped her create scenariosfor feature films and stuff.
But yeah, the commercial world sometimesis kind of foreign to me in that aspect.
In the feature film world,can you take us through your
position from pre-production,production, to post-production?
As a producer, it's a balanceof both business and creative.
(31:08):
setting goals or benchmarks,staying on task help a lot.
You come up with a concept, yourscript is your architectural
plans, it's your foundation.
And then from there, howdo we shoot this film?
This is how we shootthe film, logistically.
Now we see how the film is broken down.
Each of these are phases, right?
Let's just say financing is done.
(31:28):
Now how are we gonna pay for thefilm budget-wise with the financing?
And that's the thing withindependent film, we're talking
budgets below 10 million dollars.
We're not talking studio films.
You can't throw money at the problem.
You have to figure out, the compromise of,the financial, logistical, and creative.
You come up with those three phases,script, schedule, and budget.
(31:49):
Now we have to implement those, and that'swhere it comes in with your key personnel.
As long as everybody's on thesame page with these, parameters,
then you go to implement themand you move into pre-production.
So producing a lot of your work isin prep, because the more prep you
do the smoother the shoot goes.
But we all know there's Murphy's Lawand that's where experience comes in.
(32:09):
You do it enough times, you getahead of those Murphy's Law.
You start implementing different,tactics or procedures, you
lean on your department heads.
You all come together as a team, andthen you get into the production.
At this point in my world, keepthe cameras rolling, get the film.
What are things that would stop that?
Well, there's so many variables.
Depending on the script,depending on the location.
(32:33):
You're dealing with weather.
If I'm shooting an action film inMichigan in winter, I know my camera
batteries are gonna freeze, so Ineed to have a vehicle on standby
to keep the camera batteries warm.
All these logistical things, Ineed to get ahead of those
to keep the machine moving.
That's the logistical side of it.
The creative side would be "oh, thesnow looks great, you know, on camera."
(32:53):
You get through the production phase,and depending on your position on
there, if you're a lead producer,then you're carrying it on into post.
And then is distribution negotiatedahead of time with what they
call pre-sales, or are you takingthis film out to the market?
That really depends on how thefilm was set up in the beginning
on that backend for distribution.
Cuz a Lot of independent filmsare pre-sold to get financing.
(33:15):
There's the domestic market, whichis Canada and US, and technically
Mexico is considered a Latin America,and then you have foreign markets.
For our film, we didn't pre-sell ourfilm, but we went and got Dean Cain on our
own and we privately financed the film.
Go out to the free agent market,American Film Market, can we get sales
from that or distribution from that?
(33:35):
And that's what we did.
There's a lot of different avenuesfor distribution for independent film.
Studios, have thingsslated out ahead of time.
It's more a corporation business setup,but independent films are more, organic.
That's really what dictates alot of it is what is the story?
What is the genre?
What are you trying to tell?
I know a few filmmakers that havemade some great films, but it's
(33:55):
like, well, what's your audience?
It wasn't followed throughall the way on that end.
As we wrap up here, if you have anyother stories, I'd love to hear 'em.
We've covered a lot so far.
The bottom line is, if it's somethingyou're passionate about, pursue it.
At the end of the day, determinewhat's best for yourself.
You gotta find where you fit or whatfeels right for you, and do that.
(34:17):
There's no right or wrong answer.
I like to end with having you bragabout something you're like super,
proud of, or a problem that yousolved do you have, something off
the top of your head you're feelingreally proud of, you wanna talk about?
I mean, I, I am proud of shootingIncantation because it was a once in
a lifetime experience where we truly,as filmmakers reported to ourselves.
(34:38):
Though we had limited resources, wemade a film that we wanted to make.
At the time it was like,"What are we doing?"
We're taking this financial risk,but we have a film that we shot and
it's very stylized, it's unique.
We shot in a unique location.
It may not be the most interesting or,Oscar-winning performance film, but it's
(34:59):
a film that we made that will outlive us.
It's available currently on mostmainstream, streaming platforms
like Amazon, iTunes, it might beon some Roku channels, some Tubi.
If you Google "TheIncantation," it's out there.
And where can people follow you?
Follow Blue Falcon Productionson Facebook, or Instagram, Twitter.
(35:21):
I'm on Facebook, IMDB.
Just keep doing what you're doing.
There is no manual.
That's great.
Well, thanks so much, Dan.
Yeah.
Thanks Randy.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
(35:44):
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm/Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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