February 13, 2024 • 41 mins
Host Randy Strobl (‘12) talks with Tim Dailey (‘08), about his journey from VFX Artist to Academic Dean of Exceptional Minds.
Exceptional Minds is a nonprofit academy and post production studio for people with autism.
Links:
Exceptional Minds: https://exceptional-minds.org/
Tim Dailey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-dailey-23428862
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
Exceptional Minds is a nonprofit academy and post production studio for people with autism.
Links:
Exceptional Minds: https://exceptional-minds.org/
Tim Dailey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-dailey-23428862
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
- The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
- GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Alumni Live the podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm video major, and alumni profiles.
Welcome to another episodeof alumni live the podcast.
I'm Randy Strobl, your host for today.
And I'm here with areally exceptional person.
If I could say we've got TimDailey here from Exceptional Minds.
(00:24):
Hi everybody.
Thank you for the pun, Randy.
I'm sure they'll be coming all interview.
So what is Exceptional Minds?
Let's, tell the folks at home.
So Exceptional Minds is a schoolfor students on the autism spectrum
to learn and study the digital arts.
What our company does actually is weprovide a complete pipeline for students.
You can be as young as 14 yearsold , but you can be from that age
(00:47):
and you can go into mid adulthood, 35years old, learn about the specific
computer arts for the first time.
And then what we do here is we havea three year program that helps you
develop a portfolio specifically inyour chosen field of the digital
arts, whether it be visualeffects, 2D animation, 3D animation.
We cover a wide varietyof these digital arts.
(01:10):
So somebody who's looking to get involvedat Exceptional Minds for the first time,
they might start off with us in some parttime workshops that are devoted to these
specific areas to get a feel for them.
And then if they really enjoy it, theyexplore it even further in the full
time program that I just mentioned.
And during our full time program, weoffer career services support where
(01:30):
we have dedicated industry partnersthat help students on the spectrum,
specifically secure jobs and internships.
So while we can never guaranteeplacement, our job as a company is to
help these students specifically buildtheir portfolios to the best degree
that it can be in order to help themsecure those opportunities out there.
(01:51):
So these differenttypes of, opportunities.
. So you might have something likea mentorship and internship.
Some freelance work, and so we help thestudents develop those skills necessary
to be competitive in that field.
And even after they graduate, westill provide additional services.
And we also have a dedicated animationstudio where students can go and work on
(02:15):
a freelance basis after they graduate iftheir portfolio is showing these skills.
Our company provides this hugeopportunity for students on the
autism spectrum to develop thoseskills and make a career out of it.
So I'm hearing school.
I'm hearing workshops.
I'm hearing animation.
I want to get into all of that, but,I just want to talk a little bit
(02:35):
about, what is the autism spectrum?
So when we talk about students on theautism spectrum, we're talking about.
The terminology that we use today issomebody who's neurotypical versus
somebody who's neurodivergent.
So it's somebody who usually thinksabout things in a different way
or manner and they take in sensoryinput maybe a little bit differently
(02:56):
from somebody who's neurotypical.
So a person on the autism spectrum mightbe more sensitive to like certain sounds,
taste, touch, things of that nature.
But something to remember about autismspecifically is that it's a spectrum.
So, when you've met 1 person withautism, you've met 1 person with autism.
Some people are very lowlyaffected and need minimal support.
(03:19):
Others need a lot more additional support.
So, the best way to find out whatthose supports are that they need
is to just ask the individual.
In viewing autism in this day andage, it's really still about learning
what the individual needs are ofthe individual person and what the
additional support is that they mayneed to help them so you can make those
(03:40):
accommodations for them, whether it bein the classroom or in the workplace.
So you're doing some, greatwork out there and you're not
just from Exceptional Minds.
You're also a Dean, right?
I am our academic Dean.
. Wow.
Congratulations to you on that.
. Let's, learn a little bit about thepath that got you to be Academic
Dean at, Exceptional Minds.
So, starting at Grand Valley,what did your school experience
(04:01):
look like for you then?
Yeah, I guess I'll just gothrough the life story basically
from point A to point B.
So, I started off at GrandValley as a freshman in 2004.
I was in the film and video program.
Initially, I wanted to study animationright away and, interestingly enough,
while I was going through the program, Ihad a lot of great friends in the program.
(04:22):
We would spend our nights andour weekends watching movies.
And during my time at GVSU.
I actually got more interestedin the film production aspects.
So I did a lot of the greatthings that GVSU is known for,
like, their summer film program.
And what was funny about it is,I'm going through the program and
I'm like, I hate being on a filmset at 3 o'clock in the morning!
(04:44):
So, I go through that after a fewyears, and then I go and I really start
developing my skills in animation again.
So my professors therewere really encouraging.
I remember having DMMorris as a professor.
She was pretty encouraging towards meand my development in animation skills.
So I graduated with my emphasis inanimation and then I just worked
(05:05):
a few odd jobs for a few years.
Then after doing that for a few years, Iwas like, Hmm, I really want to go back
and pursue this a little bit further.
So.
I ended up applying for graduateschool, which led me to attend
the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn,New York, where I received my MFA.
So I did that program, receiveda degree in digital arts.
(05:25):
That program took me 3 years to complete.
After that, I ended up working inthe industry on a freelance basis.
So I did a few odd jobs in NewYork, but eventually I decided,
okay, LA is kind of a bigger pool.
So let's go out there.
It doesn't seem like it would be, butLA is where everything is centralized
as far as the industry goes in America.
So I went out there and I starteddoing visual effects work,
(05:46):
on a, freelance basis in LA.
And with my MFA, I started.
adjunct teaching on a freelance basis.
For those odd jobs that you had inNew York was that freelance animation?
Like, were you working?
Yeah, it was, but it has somemotion graphics type work.
So still in that same vein.
I was doing this for about a goodfour to five years when I first moved
out to LA and then I was looking formore teaching jobs and I was like.
(06:10):
It might be interesting to see whatthese students on the spectrum can do.
So I applied for this place calledExceptional Minds and I essentially was
just kind of impressed looking at theirwork at the time at the level of quality
that the students could do specifically.
So I applied, I interviewed for arole as a VFX instructor actually to
begin with, and I was a VFX instructorwith the company for three years.
(06:33):
But at the same time, I was doing alot of these managerial type tasks.
And the dean at the time, her namewas Kat Cutright, amazing mentor
to me, she had me doing a lot ofthese type of overview, management
type roles, and so I was eventuallypromoted into our associate dean role.
And then when she left, I basically tookover this role of the Academic Dean.
(06:55):
And what I always tellpeople about that is.
I really did go through an interviewprocess where I had to prove or like,
Hey, I know this knowledge aboutthis and blah, blah, blah about this.
It's all about talking about what you knowwhen you're essentially getting your foot
in the door, and you're showing peoplethat you can do it, so it's the walk the
walk opposed to the talk in the talk.
(07:16):
I eventually ended up in theacademic dean role, because I
showed I could do all these tasksthat were required at the company.
And I mean, talking about the,the animation work that so
these students are like activelydoing, , animation work, right?
And when you look at the video onyour website, I mean, it's a reel
of all the biggest movies that havecome out in the last couple of years.
(07:38):
Tell us a little bit about, youknow, what partnerships you have.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what you're seeing and you're reactingto is, I'll just say right off the bat,
one of our biggest clients, if not ourbiggest client, is Marvel specifically.
So they give us a lotof VFX freelance work.
We do some visual effects post productiontype work for them specifically.
And what ends up happening with that islike any other company that I'll bid for
(08:02):
shots will go to a company and we'll takea certain amount in and we do it on the
basis of what our students are trained in.
So then with the dedicated supportof a studio supervisor, they work
on producing these shots, andgiving them back to the client.
So we've had this relationshipgoing with them, before I
started at Exceptional Minds.
So that relationship has been likeseven years plus specifically.
(08:25):
Some other great clients that we workwith are Nickelodeon, Paramount,
Cartoon Network, Disney as a whole.
The bigger companies that we really havethose ongoing mentorship opportunities,
internship opportunities going onthat are available to the students.
Depending on what it's like yearafter year, we'll see different
opportunities come up for the students.
(08:46):
So, a few years ago we had twointernship opportunities from Mattel.
Okay, Mattel's the toy company, right?
So, it's like thinking about, howare they related to the digital arts?
Well, they had those type ofpositions related to what we
do here in their wheelhouse.
So they want ours to come in and theyhired one of the interns full time.
(09:08):
So we do have those typeof relationships as well.
I mean, and you've got someincredible stats for your graduation
numbers are up in the nineties.
You've got students going out to work.
What advice do you have for the studentslistening to this, so Grand Valley
students trying to work on some of thosebig movies that you've got relationships.
What is the animation VFX industry looklike for students coming out of college?
(09:28):
It's a pretty competitive industry.
So my best advice that I can give islisten to your peers, your instructors,
get that professional feedback, connectwith industry professionals, do your
networking on LinkedIn in order to getthat feedback, When you're thinking
about, applying for these internships,these job opportunities on these
websites, how do you get yourself noticed?
(09:49):
That is always the catch 22.
I would say more so the first job stepis to really think about, hey, what
is a company that I want to work for?
Do they do the type ofwork that I want to do?
Start connecting with the people whoalready work at that company, talking to
them over a continuous period of time.
So talk to them, like,form these relationships.
(10:12):
over several years, if need be, sothey know who you are specifically
because that's what it's all about.
If somebody recognizes who you are,then that pool ends up becoming
a lot smaller and your chancesbecome a lot more available.
So as we're talkingabout, the work, right?
What programs are you using?
What, skills, are required?
(10:32):
What does a day in the lifeof somebody who works on these
shows and movies look like?
So we use the Adobe softwarein our program now, that's for
beginner level and somebody who'slearning the skills for first time.
Premieres coming up on video editing,but as the student goes into more of
the advanced animation programming,we'll learn things like Toon Boom
Harmony and Storyboard Pro becausea lot of industry professionals
(10:54):
use that in the animation industry.
Maya is still big one in 3d.
Maya just seems to bein it for the long haul.
So, and visual effects itself, thisis hard to wrap your head around,
but this is where a lot of myfreelance opportunities came from.
What is used is the program Nuke.
So Nuke is a node based software.
(11:15):
So for those of you who are not familiarwith what a node is specifically, opposed
to a layer based system like Photoshopwhere things are stacked on top of each
other, nodes are basically boxes thatconnect into one another and tell.
the program to do differenttypes of functions.
So that's the easiest way to describe it.
That's the basis of Nuke.
It takes a person a hot minute to usuallylearn how to use Nuke because of that.
(11:40):
So when I first learned Nuke, ittook me about six months to learn it.
So, but I was self taught in it.
For those of you who are not familiar,because I know GVSU really didn't focus
too heavily on visual effects per se.
It did a little bit of thedigital post production, but
let me just give you an example.
In digital post production,in digital effects, you might
be asked to track something.
(12:01):
So when I say track something, thatmeans the computer will lock onto a
pixel or a series of pixels in thescreen and create a pathway on that.
So maybe it'll track my hand, right?
And then what that allowsfor is for something like a
baseball to move in my hand.
So it looks like something iscompletely integrated into it.
That's the visual effect.
(12:23):
So there is that common valuethat still exists, but learning
to adapt to different softwaremay take you a little bit of time.
Those are some of the tips and techniquesthat you can use to make yourself a
little bit more competitive is doing,again, that stuff that not everybody
knows, doing that stuff that you're okayto explore and you're willing to go.
So you don't necessarily haveto go down the coding route.
(12:44):
Although, well, people can go that route.
I've heard that too, fromplenty of industry partners.
But if you're more of a visualperson, there are other ways,
skills and techniques you can learn.
Wow.
I felt like I just got a front row seat tothat part of you being an educator there.
I, that was a great explanationof, how nodes and things work.
Let's talk a little bitabout you being an educator.
(13:05):
There are some students rightnow who will become educators or
who will get interested in that.
There are some students right nowwho are in the film program looking
to, kind of do what you're doing and,spread the knowledge about filmmaking
to a new generation of students.
What does being aneducator look like for you?
Being an educator you have the opportunityto come into a wonderful company and
(13:26):
like Exceptional Minds and kind of shadowsomebody and learn from the techniques
that they're doing specifically.
A lot of the times you'll be giventhe opportunity to educate in some
way or form like maybe on a smallerbasis and you kind of find your rhythm.
This is the other funny story, thefirst adjunct teaching job that I ever
(13:47):
had was a 3D character animation class.
I had my MFA at the time they neededan adjunct instructor, so I'm like,
okay, I, that's not really my field ofspecialty, I, even though my emphasis
was in animation in graduate school,character, I was more of an experimental
animator opposed to a character animator,but I'm like, okay, I have enough skills
(14:08):
to teach this, but, first day of class,I'm like, how do I prepare for this?
Okay, I'm going to write out this entirelecture and like, read it verbatim.
So, the reason I laugh is because I lookback at that and because of your nerves
you use some type of methodology likethat to make yourself less nervous, but
(14:28):
eventually you just have to go throughthe process of doing it again and
again to get yourself into the rhythm.
Remember how I said it's about what youknow and just being comfortable with that.
That's how you get comfortablein the teaching style.
You just do it again and again.
And eventually you don't needeven the lecture notes you
just know everything by heart.
And you talk in your way whereyou're very comfortable with
(14:49):
it and people respond to you.
So I actually never read my reviewsfrom that first class that I took
because, it's like five years later.
You're like, I'd be curious now to seewhat they said at the time, because.
I did get some positivefeedback in that class.
So some people do like that style,but essentially the point is.
It's just about doing it again and againand getting comfortable with it so you
(15:11):
find your rhythm like if you're naturallycomfortable with public speaking, then
just keep on doing what you're doing.
But if you're not comfortable withpublic speaking, then use these tools
to help make it easier on yourself.
And then once you start knowingwhat, you know, then at least in my
case, I found I became a lot morecomfortable in that way and aspect.
(15:32):
So.
It's practice, practice,practice, essentially.
Well, and I think there's a goodlesson in there too, just for, for
anybody, in those first couple ofyears after you graduate of just,
you're going to be in situations thatyou weren't necessarily trained for.
Were there skills that you learnedat Grand Valley that helped
you, say, I think I can do that.
I think I can figure this out.
So, what I got most out of GrandValley was creating a great community
(15:55):
of people that I could talk to aboutsituations and problems that I ran into.
So when I think about publicspeaking, for example, I could think
of like, did I take any classes inpublic speaking at Grand Valley?
Yeah, I did.
I mean, that definitely helps, but,the real skills, really come from
putting yourself out there, essentiallyputting yourself in those uncomfortable
(16:17):
situations, those unfamiliar thingsthat you, might not necessarily be okay
with doing at first, and just seeinghow it is a meme, the best advice is,
be okay with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, like those times where you were onset and you decided it wasn't for you.
I mean, you still stuckit out at those 3 a.
m.
shoots for a bit, right?
Exactly.
That's what college is for, like, lookingback specifically, because you find,
(16:39):
like, what you are most comfortable with.
And, if you don't like aparticular situation, that's okay.
What we like to say also isthis idea of "fail faster".
Because you learn from failure, you learnabout things that you don't like and
things that you essentially aren't good ator things that you wanna further develop.
And the more and more you do it,essentially, either you become more
(17:00):
comfortable with it and you develop askill in it, or you move onto something
else that you are more passionate about.
That is a great lesson.
I feel like I just learnedsomething there too.
Going back to Exceptional Minds.
The spectrum is a really importantpart of what you, do there.
what is it about, animation, autism?
Why is that the, connectionthat, everybody made there?
You know, everybody has recently beenasking me that I want to say that's more
(17:24):
like a human psychology question, becausethere is something really appealing about
the anime for maybe it's because you'reputting yourself into situations that
are so fantastical and impossible, andthere's something about being out of
the ordinary in animation, so somethingbecomes this very fantastical event.
There might be reasons behind it in thesense of, okay, society doesn't accept me,
(17:48):
but maybe this other world will accept me.
I think a lot of us in filmmakingrelate to that, even if we're not on
the spectrum or don't know that we
More than likely, a lot of people whoyou interact with in the arts, you've
more than likely met people who are onthe spectrum, and they either just don't
disclose or don't identify some peopledon't get diagnosed until later in life.
(18:09):
In my opinion, it's out therea lot more than we vocalize it
being there, but like anythingthat there's a social stigma.
I It's up to the individualto say to you specifically.
Whether or not they are on thespectrum or not, because it's about
their own personal life journey andwhat their goals are for themselves.
Certainly, and I imagine some ofthe people listening to this could
(18:31):
be on the spectrum, looking forsome connection, some community.
There's a lot of hopein Exceptional Minds.
Can you just talk to us aboutcreating that community?
That sense of hope?
So one of the great things about again,our three year program is not only do
we have the education, but we do haveextracurriculars that go along with that.
So these extra social engagements,we do a certain amount of parties
(18:54):
where the students come together,they'll have pizza, engage in games.
Things of that nature.
But one of the great thingsthat we do on a weekly basis is
we have a movie or game night.
And the students flip outfor a movie and game night.
So last week they just watched theoriginal 1993 Super Mario Brothers movie.
Because, of course, the new Mario movie.
And they were doing ads like, oh,this is going to be a bad movie night.
(19:17):
And like I love the 1993 film,so that's just what I do, but.
Of course, they're like, okay, this reallydoesn't seem like a Mario movie, but this
is actually a really cool dystopian movie.
So, sometimes you'll get, thesefun, interactive reactions that
they weren't necessarily expecting.
They go all in on the game night they'llcompete against each other, in Super
Smash Bros or Mario Party, and us asadministrators and instructors will
(19:41):
overview and just sometimes we'll getinvolved in the gameplay, but, it's
just a really great collaborativespace for them to come together
and do that type of interaction.
So one, really awesome thing that wejust did recently at the end of March
is we have what is called an Anajam.
We have 48 hour Anajam.
Anajam?
So what that is, within 48 hours youget into teams and you produce a
(20:06):
animation within that 48 hour period.
So there's 24 hour competitionsthat are out there that happen
year round specifically, but wedecided we're going to do our own.
So that was just, another greatway to interact, produce some
animation work, get to know theirpeers a little bit better, have that
type of interaction to really buildthat sense of community right there.
(20:28):
lots of cool things of that naturehappen at Exceptional Minds,
so, instructors were there likeat three o'clock in the morning.
I was there only during the day, becauselike I said, in my old age, I'm like,
yeah, I don't do the three anymore.
And for those of you who areone year, I'm actually 37.
So I'm not, so just semi old.
So outside of Exceptional Mindsjust, general industry tips
(20:53):
for students on the spectrum or,recent graduates on the spectrum.
What do you tell your studentswhen they go out into the world?
General tips that I can giveyou would come back to, what
do you want your brand to be?
And so what that comes down to isalthough we want, like, hey, I'm going to
be the best at this, I'm going to be yourtop level Disney animator or Pixar artist,
(21:15):
take a step back, think about this.
Do you want to destroy your self worthof putting yourself at that level?
Now, for the 1 in 10, 000 people,that may be the way to go.
What do you mean bydestroy your self worth?
What I mean by that is, areyou going to make yourself
sick, specifically, by like, I'mtechnically not good enough to do
(21:40):
Work life balance?
Essentially, and then pullingyourself all into it in that way.
So that comes back to the pointof develop a style for yourself.
Have an artistic voicethat's unique to you.
That is what's going to get you noticed.
So you present yourself at acertain way, in a certain theme.
Maybe you're all about goth and horror.
(22:00):
Maybe you're about sci-fi.
Maybe there's something crazy andwonky out there that's your style.
Maybe things in regards to, like, welook at something like Rick and Morty.
Adult humor animation, right?
But it has this very distinct style.
Do you have a voice that's like that?
Do you borrow themes of thatnature, make yourself more
(22:21):
appealing to a wider audience.
And that's why I use thatas that specific example.
You develop a website, a cover letter, aportfolio that reflects your brand, what
you're all about, whether it's raunchyor by the book, but something that
really defines you, not everybody'sgoing to respond to you, but a lot of
people will, that's being true to yourselfbecause those are the people who you're
(22:43):
going to have the commonalities and byshowing your voice your vision in that
way and form, then you can make thoseconnections, put yourself out there
in a way where people are going torecognize you for the talents that you
have artistic, technically, and they'llget where you want to go, in the end.
Always be true to youand you won't go wrong
(23:03):
This episode is brought to you by theChuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
upper level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who are working
on creative projects that support thenon profit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome the 2020 recipientof that fellowship, describes the
benefits of the support he received.
(23:24):
When going through this fellowship,there are three separate parts
of yourself that I think get toexperience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work with aclient on your own, independently,
out in the world, away fromthe classroom like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(23:45):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third one would be as acitizen, you know, you're not making
video for an entertainment value orfor some kind of commercial purpose.
It's for a nonprofit.
It's for a direct benefit in yourcommunity and being a citizen of that
community, understanding how you candirectly impact and improve it, um,
(24:08):
is a really valuable experience that Ithink the fellowship teaches you to be
as, as a student, as a filmmaker, andas a citizen, all three of those things
are directly a part of this processthat you get to learn and ask yourself.
How do I want to be seen and how doI want to act as these three roles?
For more information and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
(24:29):
Now back to the show.
So you brought up work life balance andI'm curious what that looks like, between,
school or, going out into the industry.
And you all are doing professionalwork on these big movies I assume
with pretty hefty deadlines.
What does work life balance look like?
What tips do you have for that?
So in school, we teach that actually inour vocational part of our curriculum.
(24:52):
Another unique thing about thesocial minds curriculum is.
, we spend one day a week towards, thisis how I prepare for a job interview.
This is how I resolve workplace complex.
This is how I prepare a cover letter.
This is how I prepare a resume.
This is how I build aportfolio specifically.
What that ties into is having thosesoft skills, those professional
(25:13):
skills, going back to your originalquestion about that work life balance.
You have to be able to regulateand recognize, okay, I'm burnt out.
I need to take my break.
I'm going to resume this and I'mgoing to do this in chunks so I
can get a certain amount done.
So a lot of the time in the VFX industry,we do run into the issues and the
animation industry , where, hey, peoplewill be working these massive amounts
(25:35):
of overtime, getting a certain job done.
If you're going to go into theindustry, will you run into
times where that's unavoidable?
Yes.
You want to keep yoursanity as much as possible.
And only do that when it's absolutelynecessary, because there will be
times in your life where you won'thave a choice, unfortunately.
(25:57):
But when you do have the choice,allow yourself to take a step back.
Solving that technical problem that,artistic problem If you're getting
stuck on progressing your art.
Give it a few days, come back to it,look at it from a different perspective.
So you can keep moving along.
So ultimately, in the end.
Maintain work life balance whenthere isn't a company breathing down
(26:19):
at you saying like, hey, we havea deadline at 5 o'clock tomorrow.
At that point, you're goingto have to stay overnight.
That's just the reality of this industry.
Now, when that's not happening, though,take time to learn and ramp yourself
up and develop those additional skillsbecause there will be those down times.
Certainly.
What does that look like forpeople who are a neurodivergent?
(26:42):
Is that the same process?
Yeah, it would be.
So, in the workplace, this wouldcome down to, what potential
accommodations you can provide to them.
So, for example, if a neurodivergentperson is working on the details,
somebody on the spectrum.
And they're having ahard time concentrating.
You might just want to check inwith them, make sure like, hey,
(27:02):
is this space quiet enough?
If it's not, then willheadphones solve that problem.
Or is there another available spacein our facility that you could work?
That's a little bitquieter than this space.
Those are small things, but thingsthat can really help a person
concentrate and get the workdone that they need to get done.
Hmm.
Very good.
Since 2004, you've been doing animation,you've been doing, special effects work.
(27:25):
How have you seen technology change,techniques change in your career?
So technology, the technicalities, thesoftware's always changing, always.
Techniques stay the same.
Basic traditional techniques,like drawing techniques are still
very much the same, so you'll seea lot of that same similarity.
The software you use, you mightbe introduced to a new technique
(27:47):
or concept in it based on whatwe're seeing in the industry.
So one of the very popular thingsthat we're seeing right now is
puppet animation and motion graphics.
So you'll have a pre existing character,that animates across the screen.
So opposed to drawing out the character,you're going to animate it with a
rig and either an After Effectssystem, such as the Duik system,
(28:09):
or you're going to use Toon BoomHarmony and animate it with their rig.
So those type of functionsmay change over time.
And we do see a lot of those techniquesevolving to make things more user
friendly for people and more accessible,but the overall concepts stay the same.
You've seen this change happen.
For students who are in class rightnow, how can they prepare themselves
(28:31):
for an industry that's always changing.
So definitely keeping those traditionalprinciples in mind, whether it be
design principles, if you're doing moremotion graphics related work, if you're
doing visual effects work, those basicvisual effects concepts like tracking,
but, you're going to go online, you'regoing to Google, you're going to go on
YouTube, you're going to keep up on thosechannels, you're going to keep up on
(28:53):
your network specifically, and you'regoing to ask Hey, what are you seeing?
In Exceptional Minds we have an awesomething called a program advisory committee.
And so what that is.
We have industry professionals whoare out there actively working, who
will come to us and communicatewith us different things, trends,
based on this exact question.
And they'll tell us specifically, hey,we're seeing software going this way.
(29:16):
Are we seeing more ofthis happening right now?
So we had this constant communicationgoing on to see, like, Hey, are
we still putting the rightthings into our curriculum for
what's going on in the industry?
Or are we outdated?
So Exceptional Minds is notaccredited what that allows for.
Is it allows us to basically change ourcurriculum on the fly if we need to, and
our instructors are amazing at developingnew curriculum all the time, based on what
(29:42):
we're seeing happening in the industry.
So you've went to school in the Midwest,you've worked in New York, worked in LA.
I'm always interested in, how is theindustry different coast to coast or,
what is similar New York, LA, Midwest?
Speed, New York is so, in my opinion,everybody's tried to one up one another,
LA, you still have to get your work done,but people are much more understanding.
(30:06):
Maybe it's the traffic mentality, ifyou get traffic, so you get a few hours
behind, but you have a lot of work toget through, but you can take a breather
every now and then, go back and understandand realize your life, heading back to
that whole work life balance discussion.
That is still available.
That was just my personal experience.
Maybe people have differentexperiences, but that was my
(30:28):
overall view of that specifically.
Michigan for me, it's my home state.
It's where I grew up.
The speed of work, if I'mbeing completely honest, is a
little bit slow for me there.
Would I do it?
Yeah, of course I would, but Idon't know how I would feel about
doing it long term because I do likestaying pretty consistently busy.
That's just my perspective.
Sure, sure.
(30:48):
Like working from home, so computershave gotten a lot more powerful now.
Are, people able to work from homeor are you still commuting in that LA
traffic all the way to, where you haveto go if, you're out there in the world?
We were offering virtual privatelessons at Exceptional Minds
even before the pandemic hit.
And then when it hit, we wentonline in a week with no problem.
(31:09):
There we go.
We're good to go.
By being a digital curriculum, that'smostly based online, having those
computers, in that week, that'swhat we ended up doing mostly.
We rented out a bunch of ourcomputers that we had on site.
So people who didn't have theavailable equipment at home
would have it specifically.
But it was a very easy transition for us.
Now that's not to say there were somegrowing pains up at that time for us as a
(31:32):
company, I think everybody went throughthat a little bit just because of the
status the world was in specifically.
A few people went on to other jobs andthings of that nature just because there
was such a dramatic change at that time.
Yeah.
So when you were a freelancer, didyou have your own editing equipment
or like, do students need to investin those computers to be competitive?
(31:52):
Okay, a student should have at least amedium grade computer to be competitive.
It doesn't have to be a fancy $3000machine ,but it should be something
that has a decent amount of RAM.
So in this day and age, somethingthat's like 16 gigabytes, if you're
doing 3D, things like the Adobe Suite.
Like Nuke, you can get non commercialversions of it and practice on it
if you're building your portfolio.
(32:14):
So software is really a non issue for us.
It really never has been because,the companies basically are like,
yeah, will absolutely help you out.
And we're like, Oh, you're so awesome.
You're so great.
Thank you for doing this for us.
And then when we eventually came backin person specifically, depending on
the year and what's going on with ourdonations and our budget, if we're talking
(32:39):
about the company as a whole, that's whenour equipment gets upgraded, but we do
the best we can to keep pretty current.
So our students can keep up andbe competitive in the industry.
So, and we're alwaysactively looking at that.
One of the things that we definitelyuse, there's a bunch of Wacom equipment.
So we have a bunch of tabletsand Cintiq specifically that the
students use in the classroom thatare available to them on site.
(33:00):
So that was a little bit of a strugglewhen we were in COVID, but they
were able to check out the tablets.
I mean, there are certain things likehaving that and the instructors being
able to look over you directly, give thatdirect one on one support, do a little bit
of that hand holding when needed in personthat is more viable when the students
(33:21):
are on site opposed to being remote.
So there were positives tobeing online, but also part of our
workshops are always online, too.
In fact, we have some of our workshopscoming up where the majority of
them will still be online this year.
And that's a great way to get involvedwith exceptional minds programming
specifically for the 1st time, ifyou're interested in it at all.
So we do a combination of both of them andcontinue to expand into this online realm.
(33:45):
We have a really great in person presence,it's a combination of both these days.
Right.
I think that's, we see that alot across the industry for sure.
What are you working on right now?
I mean what are the big projects?
Can you even talk about them?
Do you have just like NDAsacross , the whole spectrum?
Yeah, that I can't talkabout specifically.
I can say, yeah, we're definitelyworking on some Marvel stuff.
I can't tell you the titles.
(34:06):
Can you tell me what that work looks like?
What are the jobs yourstudents are helping?
What do you see up on the screen?
Yeah.
So if you're talking about visualeffects, you're actually not going
to see it because part of the thingwith visual effects, they're
what we call visible effects.
Often, you won't noticethat something has changed.
So, while they may do a green screenreplacement background, like I
have in my background right here.
(34:27):
I know this is a podcast, but for thoseof you at home, I have my Exceptional
Minds logo on in the background.
Which is a form of greenscreen, essentially.
But, if there's like a wire in the shot.
or a boom mic.
So our artists will go through aseries of those shots, and they'll
remove those and make those better.
Those would be the invisibletypes of visual effects.
So something that might be more concrete,we've done some work for Sesame Street,
(34:52):
and so, there you might see somethingthat's a little bit more visually
concrete, because you're seeing someof the actual animation come to life.
So, that would be something that's veryvisually apparent, but, If you're looking
to see, hey, the exceptional advicethat you work on this, read the end
credits of a movie specifically to seewho all the visual effects artists were.
(35:13):
Right, right.
And so people are doing everythingfrom just removing one little wire
to creating a whole dragon, right?
It's like across the visualeffects is everything now.
Exactly.
Oh, man., I'm just, my brain is spinninglike this is so, interesting to me.
Is there anything about ExceptionalMinds that you want to talk about or
about your career about being, you know,an educator, a filmmaker that you want
(35:34):
to touch on that we didn't ask about?
You covered a lot of greatquestions I think today.
Just naturally through our discussionspecifically but yeah, you talked about
this early on, it's really rememberingjust because somebody is on the spectrum
doesn't mean that they can't do ajob, a function or anything like that.
(35:54):
It's really the antithesis of that.
Sometimes need extra supportin these very minor ways and
fashions usually to help them be themost successful that they can be.
Because if we're looking at it fromthe scientific perspective, from the
reading that I've done, what happensin the brain when a person has autism
specifically is extra neurons or extrapathways will go off specifically.
(36:17):
So it's basically an informationoverload a little bit.
So that's kind of a wayof thinking about it.
What the accommodations do is it helpsthat refocusing happen and that's why
I come back to that point of when you'vemet one person with autism, you've
met one person with autism because thehuman brain is so unique and so complex
everybody reacts to something differently.
(36:39):
Now, people who have high levelsof anxiety and sometimes ADHD
will also end up being, we'll seethose commonalities for people
who end up being on the spectrum.
So there are those commonalities thatstill exist, but ultimately you should
just always ask yourself or employersshould ask themselves specifically.
Can this person just dothe job that's out there?
(37:02):
Can they do what's in front of them?
And that's what it's all about.
Just like everybody else.
You see those accommodations andsupport happening out in the world?
It's happening more and more these days.
That's something that we have constantdiscussions with the different employers
about is providing the support.
And we see a lot more companieswho have a lot more of these
neurodiverse initiatives popping up.
(37:23):
So this is a, great time, but this isthe most available time in the history
since I've been alive, where if you'regoing to disclose and you're questioning
about disclosing whether or not, andif that would give you an advantage.
It could, actually.
Those possibilities do exist.
Now, it could do the opposite too,but I feel like in this day and age,
(37:45):
people have a little bit of a betterunderstanding of autism, where that
stigma isn't as high right now but itdoes still exist to a degree, so we're
kind of walking this fine line right now.
We're kind of like at this reallyborderline stage of acceptance,
slash having the stigma of like,Oh, this is a Ray man who doesn't
(38:06):
understand what I'm saying.
Sure, sure.
And we're recording this in autismawareness month, which, even the
fact that exists hopefully showsthat, society as a whole is becoming
more understanding and accepting.
Yeah.
I mean, and some people will need highersupport, so it's not always the case.
And that's, again, coming back tothat idea of, you just have to take
the time to interact with everybodyon an individual basis to get to know
(38:29):
their story and what they're about.
Hey, you're doing a great workout at, Exceptional Minds.
In the video on your website, noticed,one of the parents that are interviewed is
somebody who we mostly know as an actor.
Is that Jamie Lee Curtis?
Does she have a student there?
Yeah, that's really funnybecause that video was made
before I actually started there.
So she was, our graduation speaker.
(38:50):
I believe the year before I cameto Exceptional Minds . Yeah,
she gave the graduation speech.
So we usually get like a celebrity.
Year after year, we have a lotof different, amazing people like
that who potentially come in.
There are two students right nowwho I could actively think of who
actually have celebrity parents.
I have heard most recently.
(39:11):
Do you want to do some name dropping?
I, no, I can't do , but
, We'll leave that to the, listeners imagination.
But I know, but that's the funny thingabout LA because like the celebrity thing
happens every now and then, and it's justkind of like, oh, sometimes you'll be
starstruck and then other times it's like,oh yeah, it's LA so it's expected , so
(39:31):
Sure, You got a lot to be proud of.
I always like to end the podcast with,something that you're, you know, a
problem that you've solved, somethingthat you're really most proud of, or
something that, pops into your head,something that, you overcame or solved.
Do you have any goodstories to sign us off on?
This is where being a teacher comes backinto play, because even though I am the
academic dean, at my heart and my core, Ilove, to teach, even though I tell these
(39:59):
stories of how I was terrified at first.
And it is that gratificationthat the students give you.
That's what it comes down to.
When I was an educator specifically,when I taught Nuke visual effects, it's
when they had that aha moment and Isaw, okay, they got it now and they
can create this amazing world projectsthat always made me feel incredible.
Now, it's like, you'regetting your demo reel done.
(40:21):
It's at the pristine stagethat needs to be awesome.
You can be competitivein the industry now.
Go out there, make us proud in the world.
So, that's.
The most fulfilling thing for me.
That's that's great.
Well Tim Dailey from Exceptional Minds,the academic dean of Exceptional Minds.
Thank you so much for hangingout here on alumni life.
Absolutely, thanks Randy.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live, the podcast.
(40:45):
Subscribe to our podcast to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
Welcome to Alumni Live the podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm video major, and alumni profiles.
Welcome to another episodeof alumni live the podcast.
I'm Randy Strobl, your host for today.
And I'm here with areally exceptional person.
If I could say we've got TimDailey here from Exceptional Minds.
(00:24):
Hi everybody.
Thank you for the pun, Randy.
I'm sure they'll be coming all interview.
So what is Exceptional Minds?
Let's, tell the folks at home.
So Exceptional Minds is a schoolfor students on the autism spectrum
to learn and study the digital arts.
What our company does actually is weprovide a complete pipeline for students.
You can be as young as 14 yearsold , but you can be from that age
(00:47):
and you can go into mid adulthood, 35years old, learn about the specific
computer arts for the first time.
And then what we do here is we havea three year program that helps you
develop a portfolio specifically inyour chosen field of the digital
arts, whether it be visualeffects, 2D animation, 3D animation.
We cover a wide varietyof these digital arts.
(01:10):
So somebody who's looking to get involvedat Exceptional Minds for the first time,
they might start off with us in some parttime workshops that are devoted to these
specific areas to get a feel for them.
And then if they really enjoy it, theyexplore it even further in the full
time program that I just mentioned.
And during our full time program, weoffer career services support where
(01:30):
we have dedicated industry partnersthat help students on the spectrum,
specifically secure jobs and internships.
So while we can never guaranteeplacement, our job as a company is to
help these students specifically buildtheir portfolios to the best degree
that it can be in order to help themsecure those opportunities out there.
(01:51):
So these differenttypes of, opportunities.
. So you might have something likea mentorship and internship.
Some freelance work, and so we help thestudents develop those skills necessary
to be competitive in that field.
And even after they graduate, westill provide additional services.
And we also have a dedicated animationstudio where students can go and work on
(02:15):
a freelance basis after they graduate iftheir portfolio is showing these skills.
Our company provides this hugeopportunity for students on the
autism spectrum to develop thoseskills and make a career out of it.
So I'm hearing school.
I'm hearing workshops.
I'm hearing animation.
I want to get into all of that, but,I just want to talk a little bit
(02:35):
about, what is the autism spectrum?
So when we talk about students on theautism spectrum, we're talking about.
The terminology that we use today issomebody who's neurotypical versus
somebody who's neurodivergent.
So it's somebody who usually thinksabout things in a different way
or manner and they take in sensoryinput maybe a little bit differently
(02:56):
from somebody who's neurotypical.
So a person on the autism spectrum mightbe more sensitive to like certain sounds,
taste, touch, things of that nature.
But something to remember about autismspecifically is that it's a spectrum.
So, when you've met 1 person withautism, you've met 1 person with autism.
Some people are very lowlyaffected and need minimal support.
(03:19):
Others need a lot more additional support.
So, the best way to find out whatthose supports are that they need
is to just ask the individual.
In viewing autism in this day andage, it's really still about learning
what the individual needs are ofthe individual person and what the
additional support is that they mayneed to help them so you can make those
(03:40):
accommodations for them, whether it bein the classroom or in the workplace.
So you're doing some, greatwork out there and you're not
just from Exceptional Minds.
You're also a Dean, right?
I am our academic Dean.
. Wow.
Congratulations to you on that.
. Let's, learn a little bit about thepath that got you to be Academic
Dean at, Exceptional Minds.
So, starting at Grand Valley,what did your school experience
(04:01):
look like for you then?
Yeah, I guess I'll just gothrough the life story basically
from point A to point B.
So, I started off at GrandValley as a freshman in 2004.
I was in the film and video program.
Initially, I wanted to study animationright away and, interestingly enough,
while I was going through the program, Ihad a lot of great friends in the program.
(04:22):
We would spend our nights andour weekends watching movies.
And during my time at GVSU.
I actually got more interestedin the film production aspects.
So I did a lot of the greatthings that GVSU is known for,
like, their summer film program.
And what was funny about it is,I'm going through the program and
I'm like, I hate being on a filmset at 3 o'clock in the morning!
(04:44):
So, I go through that after a fewyears, and then I go and I really start
developing my skills in animation again.
So my professors therewere really encouraging.
I remember having DMMorris as a professor.
She was pretty encouraging towards meand my development in animation skills.
So I graduated with my emphasis inanimation and then I just worked
(05:05):
a few odd jobs for a few years.
Then after doing that for a few years, Iwas like, Hmm, I really want to go back
and pursue this a little bit further.
So.
I ended up applying for graduateschool, which led me to attend
the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn,New York, where I received my MFA.
So I did that program, receiveda degree in digital arts.
(05:25):
That program took me 3 years to complete.
After that, I ended up working inthe industry on a freelance basis.
So I did a few odd jobs in NewYork, but eventually I decided,
okay, LA is kind of a bigger pool.
So let's go out there.
It doesn't seem like it would be, butLA is where everything is centralized
as far as the industry goes in America.
So I went out there and I starteddoing visual effects work,
(05:46):
on a, freelance basis in LA.
And with my MFA, I started.
adjunct teaching on a freelance basis.
For those odd jobs that you had inNew York was that freelance animation?
Like, were you working?
Yeah, it was, but it has somemotion graphics type work.
So still in that same vein.
I was doing this for about a goodfour to five years when I first moved
out to LA and then I was looking formore teaching jobs and I was like.
(06:10):
It might be interesting to see whatthese students on the spectrum can do.
So I applied for this place calledExceptional Minds and I essentially was
just kind of impressed looking at theirwork at the time at the level of quality
that the students could do specifically.
So I applied, I interviewed for arole as a VFX instructor actually to
begin with, and I was a VFX instructorwith the company for three years.
(06:33):
But at the same time, I was doing alot of these managerial type tasks.
And the dean at the time, her namewas Kat Cutright, amazing mentor
to me, she had me doing a lot ofthese type of overview, management
type roles, and so I was eventuallypromoted into our associate dean role.
And then when she left, I basically tookover this role of the Academic Dean.
(06:55):
And what I always tellpeople about that is.
I really did go through an interviewprocess where I had to prove or like,
Hey, I know this knowledge aboutthis and blah, blah, blah about this.
It's all about talking about what you knowwhen you're essentially getting your foot
in the door, and you're showing peoplethat you can do it, so it's the walk the
walk opposed to the talk in the talk.
(07:16):
I eventually ended up in theacademic dean role, because I
showed I could do all these tasksthat were required at the company.
And I mean, talking about the,the animation work that so
these students are like activelydoing, , animation work, right?
And when you look at the video onyour website, I mean, it's a reel
of all the biggest movies that havecome out in the last couple of years.
(07:38):
Tell us a little bit about, youknow, what partnerships you have.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what you're seeing and you're reactingto is, I'll just say right off the bat,
one of our biggest clients, if not ourbiggest client, is Marvel specifically.
So they give us a lotof VFX freelance work.
We do some visual effects post productiontype work for them specifically.
And what ends up happening with that islike any other company that I'll bid for
(08:02):
shots will go to a company and we'll takea certain amount in and we do it on the
basis of what our students are trained in.
So then with the dedicated supportof a studio supervisor, they work
on producing these shots, andgiving them back to the client.
So we've had this relationshipgoing with them, before I
started at Exceptional Minds.
So that relationship has been likeseven years plus specifically.
(08:25):
Some other great clients that we workwith are Nickelodeon, Paramount,
Cartoon Network, Disney as a whole.
The bigger companies that we really havethose ongoing mentorship opportunities,
internship opportunities going onthat are available to the students.
Depending on what it's like yearafter year, we'll see different
opportunities come up for the students.
(08:46):
So, a few years ago we had twointernship opportunities from Mattel.
Okay, Mattel's the toy company, right?
So, it's like thinking about, howare they related to the digital arts?
Well, they had those type ofpositions related to what we
do here in their wheelhouse.
So they want ours to come in and theyhired one of the interns full time.
(09:08):
So we do have those typeof relationships as well.
I mean, and you've got someincredible stats for your graduation
numbers are up in the nineties.
You've got students going out to work.
What advice do you have for the studentslistening to this, so Grand Valley
students trying to work on some of thosebig movies that you've got relationships.
What is the animation VFX industry looklike for students coming out of college?
(09:28):
It's a pretty competitive industry.
So my best advice that I can give islisten to your peers, your instructors,
get that professional feedback, connectwith industry professionals, do your
networking on LinkedIn in order to getthat feedback, When you're thinking
about, applying for these internships,these job opportunities on these
websites, how do you get yourself noticed?
(09:49):
That is always the catch 22.
I would say more so the first job stepis to really think about, hey, what
is a company that I want to work for?
Do they do the type ofwork that I want to do?
Start connecting with the people whoalready work at that company, talking to
them over a continuous period of time.
So talk to them, like,form these relationships.
(10:12):
over several years, if need be, sothey know who you are specifically
because that's what it's all about.
If somebody recognizes who you are,then that pool ends up becoming
a lot smaller and your chancesbecome a lot more available.
So as we're talkingabout, the work, right?
What programs are you using?
What, skills, are required?
(10:32):
What does a day in the lifeof somebody who works on these
shows and movies look like?
So we use the Adobe softwarein our program now, that's for
beginner level and somebody who'slearning the skills for first time.
Premieres coming up on video editing,but as the student goes into more of
the advanced animation programming,we'll learn things like Toon Boom
Harmony and Storyboard Pro becausea lot of industry professionals
(10:54):
use that in the animation industry.
Maya is still big one in 3d.
Maya just seems to bein it for the long haul.
So, and visual effects itself, thisis hard to wrap your head around,
but this is where a lot of myfreelance opportunities came from.
What is used is the program Nuke.
So Nuke is a node based software.
(11:15):
So for those of you who are not familiarwith what a node is specifically, opposed
to a layer based system like Photoshopwhere things are stacked on top of each
other, nodes are basically boxes thatconnect into one another and tell.
the program to do differenttypes of functions.
So that's the easiest way to describe it.
That's the basis of Nuke.
It takes a person a hot minute to usuallylearn how to use Nuke because of that.
(11:40):
So when I first learned Nuke, ittook me about six months to learn it.
So, but I was self taught in it.
For those of you who are not familiar,because I know GVSU really didn't focus
too heavily on visual effects per se.
It did a little bit of thedigital post production, but
let me just give you an example.
In digital post production,in digital effects, you might
be asked to track something.
(12:01):
So when I say track something, thatmeans the computer will lock onto a
pixel or a series of pixels in thescreen and create a pathway on that.
So maybe it'll track my hand, right?
And then what that allowsfor is for something like a
baseball to move in my hand.
So it looks like something iscompletely integrated into it.
That's the visual effect.
(12:23):
So there is that common valuethat still exists, but learning
to adapt to different softwaremay take you a little bit of time.
Those are some of the tips and techniquesthat you can use to make yourself a
little bit more competitive is doing,again, that stuff that not everybody
knows, doing that stuff that you're okayto explore and you're willing to go.
So you don't necessarily haveto go down the coding route.
(12:44):
Although, well, people can go that route.
I've heard that too, fromplenty of industry partners.
But if you're more of a visualperson, there are other ways,
skills and techniques you can learn.
Wow.
I felt like I just got a front row seat tothat part of you being an educator there.
I, that was a great explanationof, how nodes and things work.
Let's talk a little bitabout you being an educator.
(13:05):
There are some students rightnow who will become educators or
who will get interested in that.
There are some students right nowwho are in the film program looking
to, kind of do what you're doing and,spread the knowledge about filmmaking
to a new generation of students.
What does being aneducator look like for you?
Being an educator you have the opportunityto come into a wonderful company and
(13:26):
like Exceptional Minds and kind of shadowsomebody and learn from the techniques
that they're doing specifically.
A lot of the times you'll be giventhe opportunity to educate in some
way or form like maybe on a smallerbasis and you kind of find your rhythm.
This is the other funny story, thefirst adjunct teaching job that I ever
(13:47):
had was a 3D character animation class.
I had my MFA at the time they neededan adjunct instructor, so I'm like,
okay, I, that's not really my field ofspecialty, I, even though my emphasis
was in animation in graduate school,character, I was more of an experimental
animator opposed to a character animator,but I'm like, okay, I have enough skills
(14:08):
to teach this, but, first day of class,I'm like, how do I prepare for this?
Okay, I'm going to write out this entirelecture and like, read it verbatim.
So, the reason I laugh is because I lookback at that and because of your nerves
you use some type of methodology likethat to make yourself less nervous, but
(14:28):
eventually you just have to go throughthe process of doing it again and
again to get yourself into the rhythm.
Remember how I said it's about what youknow and just being comfortable with that.
That's how you get comfortablein the teaching style.
You just do it again and again.
And eventually you don't needeven the lecture notes you
just know everything by heart.
And you talk in your way whereyou're very comfortable with
(14:49):
it and people respond to you.
So I actually never read my reviewsfrom that first class that I took
because, it's like five years later.
You're like, I'd be curious now to seewhat they said at the time, because.
I did get some positivefeedback in that class.
So some people do like that style,but essentially the point is.
It's just about doing it again and againand getting comfortable with it so you
(15:11):
find your rhythm like if you're naturallycomfortable with public speaking, then
just keep on doing what you're doing.
But if you're not comfortable withpublic speaking, then use these tools
to help make it easier on yourself.
And then once you start knowingwhat, you know, then at least in my
case, I found I became a lot morecomfortable in that way and aspect.
(15:32):
So.
It's practice, practice,practice, essentially.
Well, and I think there's a goodlesson in there too, just for, for
anybody, in those first couple ofyears after you graduate of just,
you're going to be in situations thatyou weren't necessarily trained for.
Were there skills that you learnedat Grand Valley that helped
you, say, I think I can do that.
I think I can figure this out.
So, what I got most out of GrandValley was creating a great community
(15:55):
of people that I could talk to aboutsituations and problems that I ran into.
So when I think about publicspeaking, for example, I could think
of like, did I take any classes inpublic speaking at Grand Valley?
Yeah, I did.
I mean, that definitely helps, but,the real skills, really come from
putting yourself out there, essentiallyputting yourself in those uncomfortable
(16:17):
situations, those unfamiliar thingsthat you, might not necessarily be okay
with doing at first, and just seeinghow it is a meme, the best advice is,
be okay with being uncomfortable.
Yeah, like those times where you were onset and you decided it wasn't for you.
I mean, you still stuckit out at those 3 a.
m.
shoots for a bit, right?
Exactly.
That's what college is for, like, lookingback specifically, because you find,
(16:39):
like, what you are most comfortable with.
And, if you don't like aparticular situation, that's okay.
What we like to say also isthis idea of "fail faster".
Because you learn from failure, you learnabout things that you don't like and
things that you essentially aren't good ator things that you wanna further develop.
And the more and more you do it,essentially, either you become more
(17:00):
comfortable with it and you develop askill in it, or you move onto something
else that you are more passionate about.
That is a great lesson.
I feel like I just learnedsomething there too.
Going back to Exceptional Minds.
The spectrum is a really importantpart of what you, do there.
what is it about, animation, autism?
Why is that the, connectionthat, everybody made there?
You know, everybody has recently beenasking me that I want to say that's more
(17:24):
like a human psychology question, becausethere is something really appealing about
the anime for maybe it's because you'reputting yourself into situations that
are so fantastical and impossible, andthere's something about being out of
the ordinary in animation, so somethingbecomes this very fantastical event.
There might be reasons behind it in thesense of, okay, society doesn't accept me,
(17:48):
but maybe this other world will accept me.
I think a lot of us in filmmakingrelate to that, even if we're not on
the spectrum or don't know that we
More than likely, a lot of people whoyou interact with in the arts, you've
more than likely met people who are onthe spectrum, and they either just don't
disclose or don't identify some peopledon't get diagnosed until later in life.
(18:09):
In my opinion, it's out therea lot more than we vocalize it
being there, but like anythingthat there's a social stigma.
I It's up to the individualto say to you specifically.
Whether or not they are on thespectrum or not, because it's about
their own personal life journey andwhat their goals are for themselves.
Certainly, and I imagine some ofthe people listening to this could
(18:31):
be on the spectrum, looking forsome connection, some community.
There's a lot of hopein Exceptional Minds.
Can you just talk to us aboutcreating that community?
That sense of hope?
So one of the great things about again,our three year program is not only do
we have the education, but we do haveextracurriculars that go along with that.
So these extra social engagements,we do a certain amount of parties
(18:54):
where the students come together,they'll have pizza, engage in games.
Things of that nature.
But one of the great thingsthat we do on a weekly basis is
we have a movie or game night.
And the students flip outfor a movie and game night.
So last week they just watched theoriginal 1993 Super Mario Brothers movie.
Because, of course, the new Mario movie.
And they were doing ads like, oh,this is going to be a bad movie night.
(19:17):
And like I love the 1993 film,so that's just what I do, but.
Of course, they're like, okay, this reallydoesn't seem like a Mario movie, but this
is actually a really cool dystopian movie.
So, sometimes you'll get, thesefun, interactive reactions that
they weren't necessarily expecting.
They go all in on the game night they'llcompete against each other, in Super
Smash Bros or Mario Party, and us asadministrators and instructors will
(19:41):
overview and just sometimes we'll getinvolved in the gameplay, but, it's
just a really great collaborativespace for them to come together
and do that type of interaction.
So one, really awesome thing that wejust did recently at the end of March
is we have what is called an Anajam.
We have 48 hour Anajam.
Anajam?
So what that is, within 48 hours youget into teams and you produce a
(20:06):
animation within that 48 hour period.
So there's 24 hour competitionsthat are out there that happen
year round specifically, but wedecided we're going to do our own.
So that was just, another greatway to interact, produce some
animation work, get to know theirpeers a little bit better, have that
type of interaction to really buildthat sense of community right there.
(20:28):
lots of cool things of that naturehappen at Exceptional Minds,
so, instructors were there likeat three o'clock in the morning.
I was there only during the day, becauselike I said, in my old age, I'm like,
yeah, I don't do the three anymore.
And for those of you who areone year, I'm actually 37.
So I'm not, so just semi old.
So outside of Exceptional Mindsjust, general industry tips
(20:53):
for students on the spectrum or,recent graduates on the spectrum.
What do you tell your studentswhen they go out into the world?
General tips that I can giveyou would come back to, what
do you want your brand to be?
And so what that comes down to isalthough we want, like, hey, I'm going to
be the best at this, I'm going to be yourtop level Disney animator or Pixar artist,
(21:15):
take a step back, think about this.
Do you want to destroy your self worthof putting yourself at that level?
Now, for the 1 in 10, 000 people,that may be the way to go.
What do you mean bydestroy your self worth?
What I mean by that is, areyou going to make yourself
sick, specifically, by like, I'mtechnically not good enough to do
(21:40):
Work life balance?
Essentially, and then pullingyourself all into it in that way.
So that comes back to the pointof develop a style for yourself.
Have an artistic voicethat's unique to you.
That is what's going to get you noticed.
So you present yourself at acertain way, in a certain theme.
Maybe you're all about goth and horror.
(22:00):
Maybe you're about sci-fi.
Maybe there's something crazy andwonky out there that's your style.
Maybe things in regards to, like, welook at something like Rick and Morty.
Adult humor animation, right?
But it has this very distinct style.
Do you have a voice that's like that?
Do you borrow themes of thatnature, make yourself more
(22:21):
appealing to a wider audience.
And that's why I use thatas that specific example.
You develop a website, a cover letter, aportfolio that reflects your brand, what
you're all about, whether it's raunchyor by the book, but something that
really defines you, not everybody'sgoing to respond to you, but a lot of
people will, that's being true to yourselfbecause those are the people who you're
(22:43):
going to have the commonalities and byshowing your voice your vision in that
way and form, then you can make thoseconnections, put yourself out there
in a way where people are going torecognize you for the talents that you
have artistic, technically, and they'llget where you want to go, in the end.
Always be true to youand you won't go wrong
(23:03):
This episode is brought to you by theChuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
upper level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who are working
on creative projects that support thenon profit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome the 2020 recipientof that fellowship, describes the
benefits of the support he received.
(23:24):
When going through this fellowship,there are three separate parts
of yourself that I think get toexperience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work with aclient on your own, independently,
out in the world, away fromthe classroom like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(23:45):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third one would be as acitizen, you know, you're not making
video for an entertainment value orfor some kind of commercial purpose.
It's for a nonprofit.
It's for a direct benefit in yourcommunity and being a citizen of that
community, understanding how you candirectly impact and improve it, um,
(24:08):
is a really valuable experience that Ithink the fellowship teaches you to be
as, as a student, as a filmmaker, andas a citizen, all three of those things
are directly a part of this processthat you get to learn and ask yourself.
How do I want to be seen and how doI want to act as these three roles?
For more information and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
(24:29):
Now back to the show.
So you brought up work life balance andI'm curious what that looks like, between,
school or, going out into the industry.
And you all are doing professionalwork on these big movies I assume
with pretty hefty deadlines.
What does work life balance look like?
What tips do you have for that?
So in school, we teach that actually inour vocational part of our curriculum.
(24:52):
Another unique thing about thesocial minds curriculum is.
, we spend one day a week towards, thisis how I prepare for a job interview.
This is how I resolve workplace complex.
This is how I prepare a cover letter.
This is how I prepare a resume.
This is how I build aportfolio specifically.
What that ties into is having thosesoft skills, those professional
(25:13):
skills, going back to your originalquestion about that work life balance.
You have to be able to regulateand recognize, okay, I'm burnt out.
I need to take my break.
I'm going to resume this and I'mgoing to do this in chunks so I
can get a certain amount done.
So a lot of the time in the VFX industry,we do run into the issues and the
animation industry , where, hey, peoplewill be working these massive amounts
(25:35):
of overtime, getting a certain job done.
If you're going to go into theindustry, will you run into
times where that's unavoidable?
Yes.
You want to keep yoursanity as much as possible.
And only do that when it's absolutelynecessary, because there will be
times in your life where you won'thave a choice, unfortunately.
(25:57):
But when you do have the choice,allow yourself to take a step back.
Solving that technical problem that,artistic problem If you're getting
stuck on progressing your art.
Give it a few days, come back to it,look at it from a different perspective.
So you can keep moving along.
So ultimately, in the end.
Maintain work life balance whenthere isn't a company breathing down
(26:19):
at you saying like, hey, we havea deadline at 5 o'clock tomorrow.
At that point, you're goingto have to stay overnight.
That's just the reality of this industry.
Now, when that's not happening, though,take time to learn and ramp yourself
up and develop those additional skillsbecause there will be those down times.
Certainly.
What does that look like forpeople who are a neurodivergent?
(26:42):
Is that the same process?
Yeah, it would be.
So, in the workplace, this wouldcome down to, what potential
accommodations you can provide to them.
So, for example, if a neurodivergentperson is working on the details,
somebody on the spectrum.
And they're having ahard time concentrating.
You might just want to check inwith them, make sure like, hey,
(27:02):
is this space quiet enough?
If it's not, then willheadphones solve that problem.
Or is there another available spacein our facility that you could work?
That's a little bitquieter than this space.
Those are small things, but thingsthat can really help a person
concentrate and get the workdone that they need to get done.
Hmm.
Very good.
Since 2004, you've been doing animation,you've been doing, special effects work.
(27:25):
How have you seen technology change,techniques change in your career?
So technology, the technicalities, thesoftware's always changing, always.
Techniques stay the same.
Basic traditional techniques,like drawing techniques are still
very much the same, so you'll seea lot of that same similarity.
The software you use, you mightbe introduced to a new technique
(27:47):
or concept in it based on whatwe're seeing in the industry.
So one of the very popular thingsthat we're seeing right now is
puppet animation and motion graphics.
So you'll have a pre existing character,that animates across the screen.
So opposed to drawing out the character,you're going to animate it with a
rig and either an After Effectssystem, such as the Duik system,
(28:09):
or you're going to use Toon BoomHarmony and animate it with their rig.
So those type of functionsmay change over time.
And we do see a lot of those techniquesevolving to make things more user
friendly for people and more accessible,but the overall concepts stay the same.
You've seen this change happen.
For students who are in class rightnow, how can they prepare themselves
(28:31):
for an industry that's always changing.
So definitely keeping those traditionalprinciples in mind, whether it be
design principles, if you're doing moremotion graphics related work, if you're
doing visual effects work, those basicvisual effects concepts like tracking,
but, you're going to go online, you'regoing to Google, you're going to go on
YouTube, you're going to keep up on thosechannels, you're going to keep up on
(28:53):
your network specifically, and you'regoing to ask Hey, what are you seeing?
In Exceptional Minds we have an awesomething called a program advisory committee.
And so what that is.
We have industry professionals whoare out there actively working, who
will come to us and communicatewith us different things, trends,
based on this exact question.
And they'll tell us specifically, hey,we're seeing software going this way.
(29:16):
Are we seeing more ofthis happening right now?
So we had this constant communicationgoing on to see, like, Hey, are
we still putting the rightthings into our curriculum for
what's going on in the industry?
Or are we outdated?
So Exceptional Minds is notaccredited what that allows for.
Is it allows us to basically change ourcurriculum on the fly if we need to, and
our instructors are amazing at developingnew curriculum all the time, based on what
(29:42):
we're seeing happening in the industry.
So you've went to school in the Midwest,you've worked in New York, worked in LA.
I'm always interested in, how is theindustry different coast to coast or,
what is similar New York, LA, Midwest?
Speed, New York is so, in my opinion,everybody's tried to one up one another,
LA, you still have to get your work done,but people are much more understanding.
(30:06):
Maybe it's the traffic mentality, ifyou get traffic, so you get a few hours
behind, but you have a lot of work toget through, but you can take a breather
every now and then, go back and understandand realize your life, heading back to
that whole work life balance discussion.
That is still available.
That was just my personal experience.
Maybe people have differentexperiences, but that was my
(30:28):
overall view of that specifically.
Michigan for me, it's my home state.
It's where I grew up.
The speed of work, if I'mbeing completely honest, is a
little bit slow for me there.
Would I do it?
Yeah, of course I would, but Idon't know how I would feel about
doing it long term because I do likestaying pretty consistently busy.
That's just my perspective.
Sure, sure.
(30:48):
Like working from home, so computershave gotten a lot more powerful now.
Are, people able to work from homeor are you still commuting in that LA
traffic all the way to, where you haveto go if, you're out there in the world?
We were offering virtual privatelessons at Exceptional Minds
even before the pandemic hit.
And then when it hit, we wentonline in a week with no problem.
(31:09):
There we go.
We're good to go.
By being a digital curriculum, that'smostly based online, having those
computers, in that week, that'swhat we ended up doing mostly.
We rented out a bunch of ourcomputers that we had on site.
So people who didn't have theavailable equipment at home
would have it specifically.
But it was a very easy transition for us.
Now that's not to say there were somegrowing pains up at that time for us as a
(31:32):
company, I think everybody went throughthat a little bit just because of the
status the world was in specifically.
A few people went on to other jobs andthings of that nature just because there
was such a dramatic change at that time.
Yeah.
So when you were a freelancer, didyou have your own editing equipment
or like, do students need to investin those computers to be competitive?
(31:52):
Okay, a student should have at least amedium grade computer to be competitive.
It doesn't have to be a fancy $3000machine ,but it should be something
that has a decent amount of RAM.
So in this day and age, somethingthat's like 16 gigabytes, if you're
doing 3D, things like the Adobe Suite.
Like Nuke, you can get non commercialversions of it and practice on it
if you're building your portfolio.
(32:14):
So software is really a non issue for us.
It really never has been because,the companies basically are like,
yeah, will absolutely help you out.
And we're like, Oh, you're so awesome.
You're so great.
Thank you for doing this for us.
And then when we eventually came backin person specifically, depending on
the year and what's going on with ourdonations and our budget, if we're talking
(32:39):
about the company as a whole, that's whenour equipment gets upgraded, but we do
the best we can to keep pretty current.
So our students can keep up andbe competitive in the industry.
So, and we're alwaysactively looking at that.
One of the things that we definitelyuse, there's a bunch of Wacom equipment.
So we have a bunch of tabletsand Cintiq specifically that the
students use in the classroom thatare available to them on site.
(33:00):
So that was a little bit of a strugglewhen we were in COVID, but they
were able to check out the tablets.
I mean, there are certain things likehaving that and the instructors being
able to look over you directly, give thatdirect one on one support, do a little bit
of that hand holding when needed in personthat is more viable when the students
(33:21):
are on site opposed to being remote.
So there were positives tobeing online, but also part of our
workshops are always online, too.
In fact, we have some of our workshopscoming up where the majority of
them will still be online this year.
And that's a great way to get involvedwith exceptional minds programming
specifically for the 1st time, ifyou're interested in it at all.
So we do a combination of both of them andcontinue to expand into this online realm.
(33:45):
We have a really great in person presence,it's a combination of both these days.
Right.
I think that's, we see that alot across the industry for sure.
What are you working on right now?
I mean what are the big projects?
Can you even talk about them?
Do you have just like NDAsacross , the whole spectrum?
Yeah, that I can't talkabout specifically.
I can say, yeah, we're definitelyworking on some Marvel stuff.
I can't tell you the titles.
(34:06):
Can you tell me what that work looks like?
What are the jobs yourstudents are helping?
What do you see up on the screen?
Yeah.
So if you're talking about visualeffects, you're actually not going
to see it because part of the thingwith visual effects, they're
what we call visible effects.
Often, you won't noticethat something has changed.
So, while they may do a green screenreplacement background, like I
have in my background right here.
(34:27):
I know this is a podcast, but for thoseof you at home, I have my Exceptional
Minds logo on in the background.
Which is a form of greenscreen, essentially.
But, if there's like a wire in the shot.
or a boom mic.
So our artists will go through aseries of those shots, and they'll
remove those and make those better.
Those would be the invisibletypes of visual effects.
So something that might be more concrete,we've done some work for Sesame Street,
(34:52):
and so, there you might see somethingthat's a little bit more visually
concrete, because you're seeing someof the actual animation come to life.
So, that would be something that's veryvisually apparent, but, If you're looking
to see, hey, the exceptional advicethat you work on this, read the end
credits of a movie specifically to seewho all the visual effects artists were.
(35:13):
Right, right.
And so people are doing everythingfrom just removing one little wire
to creating a whole dragon, right?
It's like across the visualeffects is everything now.
Exactly.
Oh, man., I'm just, my brain is spinninglike this is so, interesting to me.
Is there anything about ExceptionalMinds that you want to talk about or
about your career about being, you know,an educator, a filmmaker that you want
(35:34):
to touch on that we didn't ask about?
You covered a lot of greatquestions I think today.
Just naturally through our discussionspecifically but yeah, you talked about
this early on, it's really rememberingjust because somebody is on the spectrum
doesn't mean that they can't do ajob, a function or anything like that.
(35:54):
It's really the antithesis of that.
Sometimes need extra supportin these very minor ways and
fashions usually to help them be themost successful that they can be.
Because if we're looking at it fromthe scientific perspective, from the
reading that I've done, what happensin the brain when a person has autism
specifically is extra neurons or extrapathways will go off specifically.
(36:17):
So it's basically an informationoverload a little bit.
So that's kind of a wayof thinking about it.
What the accommodations do is it helpsthat refocusing happen and that's why
I come back to that point of when you'vemet one person with autism, you've
met one person with autism because thehuman brain is so unique and so complex
everybody reacts to something differently.
(36:39):
Now, people who have high levelsof anxiety and sometimes ADHD
will also end up being, we'll seethose commonalities for people
who end up being on the spectrum.
So there are those commonalities thatstill exist, but ultimately you should
just always ask yourself or employersshould ask themselves specifically.
Can this person just dothe job that's out there?
(37:02):
Can they do what's in front of them?
And that's what it's all about.
Just like everybody else.
You see those accommodations andsupport happening out in the world?
It's happening more and more these days.
That's something that we have constantdiscussions with the different employers
about is providing the support.
And we see a lot more companieswho have a lot more of these
neurodiverse initiatives popping up.
(37:23):
So this is a, great time, but this isthe most available time in the history
since I've been alive, where if you'regoing to disclose and you're questioning
about disclosing whether or not, andif that would give you an advantage.
It could, actually.
Those possibilities do exist.
Now, it could do the opposite too,but I feel like in this day and age,
(37:45):
people have a little bit of a betterunderstanding of autism, where that
stigma isn't as high right now but itdoes still exist to a degree, so we're
kind of walking this fine line right now.
We're kind of like at this reallyborderline stage of acceptance,
slash having the stigma of like,Oh, this is a Ray man who doesn't
(38:06):
understand what I'm saying.
Sure, sure.
And we're recording this in autismawareness month, which, even the
fact that exists hopefully showsthat, society as a whole is becoming
more understanding and accepting.
Yeah.
I mean, and some people will need highersupport, so it's not always the case.
And that's, again, coming back tothat idea of, you just have to take
the time to interact with everybodyon an individual basis to get to know
(38:29):
their story and what they're about.
Hey, you're doing a great workout at, Exceptional Minds.
In the video on your website, noticed,one of the parents that are interviewed is
somebody who we mostly know as an actor.
Is that Jamie Lee Curtis?
Does she have a student there?
Yeah, that's really funnybecause that video was made
before I actually started there.
So she was, our graduation speaker.
(38:50):
I believe the year before I cameto Exceptional Minds . Yeah,
she gave the graduation speech.
So we usually get like a celebrity.
Year after year, we have a lotof different, amazing people like
that who potentially come in.
There are two students right nowwho I could actively think of who
actually have celebrity parents.
I have heard most recently.
(39:11):
Do you want to do some name dropping?
I, no, I can't do , but
, We'll leave that to the, listeners imagination.
But I know, but that's the funny thingabout LA because like the celebrity thing
happens every now and then, and it's justkind of like, oh, sometimes you'll be
starstruck and then other times it's like,oh yeah, it's LA so it's expected , so
(39:31):
Sure, You got a lot to be proud of.
I always like to end the podcast with,something that you're, you know, a
problem that you've solved, somethingthat you're really most proud of, or
something that, pops into your head,something that, you overcame or solved.
Do you have any goodstories to sign us off on?
This is where being a teacher comes backinto play, because even though I am the
academic dean, at my heart and my core, Ilove, to teach, even though I tell these
(39:59):
stories of how I was terrified at first.
And it is that gratificationthat the students give you.
That's what it comes down to.
When I was an educator specifically,when I taught Nuke visual effects, it's
when they had that aha moment and Isaw, okay, they got it now and they
can create this amazing world projectsthat always made me feel incredible.
Now, it's like, you'regetting your demo reel done.
(40:21):
It's at the pristine stagethat needs to be awesome.
You can be competitivein the industry now.
Go out there, make us proud in the world.
So, that's.
The most fulfilling thing for me.
That's that's great.
Well Tim Dailey from Exceptional Minds,the academic dean of Exceptional Minds.
Thank you so much for hangingout here on alumni life.
Absolutely, thanks Randy.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live, the podcast.
(40:45):
Subscribe to our podcast to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.