February 4, 2025 • 29 mins
Joel Potrykus (‘99) talks with independent filmmaker ishkwaazhe Shane McSauby (‘15) about his love of films, filmmaking, and teaching!
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ishkwaazhe Shane McSauby
Joel Potrykus
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LINKS:
ishkwaazhe Shane McSauby
Joel Potrykus
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
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- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to Alumni Live (00:03):
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm/ video, major and alumni profiles.
Welcome to another edition of Alumni Live.
My name is Joel Potrykus.
I am a Assistant Professor hereat Grand Valley State University
speaking with alum Ishkwaazhe ShaneMcSauby, who is a new visiting faculty
(00:27):
member here at Grand Valley as well.
How you doing Shane?
I'm good.
Happy to be here.
So what I want to do today is talka little bit about your time in the
film program here at Grand Valley.
How you found your way in the industry,if you pursued grad school, how
you found your way back to GrandValley, and then what's your hopes
here and in the industry today, so.
(00:47):
Can you just give us a little backstoryon where you grew up and how you
became interested in filmmaking?
Yeah yeah.
So I'm from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
I grew up, born and raised here,and I've just always loved film
for as long as I can remember.
When I was younger, I wantedto be an actor though.
you know, you don't know theprocess of filmmaking until
you get to a certain point.
So I wanted to be an actor growingup, but I grew up going to the
(01:10):
Alpine Four Theater, which waslike the second run theater.
It had a dollar twenty five tickets
So instead of going on vacations ordoing other things, we always just went
to the movies multiple times a week.
I just saw whatever was out and grewup that way and then my aunt also had
this double decker VCR and she wouldjust record boxes of tapes of movies.
(01:33):
We would just have boxes andboxes of recorded VHSs with
three or four movies on them.
If I wasn't at the theater, Iwas just watching these tapes.
I grew up in that way and Iwas watching movies all the
time and completely obsessed.
Can you think of one at thetheater and one on VHS that really
stuck with you more than others?
One that sticks out with mein the theaters is honestly,
(01:54):
and this was a little, I wasa little older, but "Titanic"?
I saw that one so many timesin theaters, it's ridiculous.
And just has everything in it, drama and
and disaster and,it's justthe package of everything.
And then for VHS, "Terminator 2".
I don't remember seeing that onein theaters, but I remember just
watching it obsessively on VHS.
(02:16):
So that, what do you think, isthat like your elementary school,
high school, when all of thisformative viewing is happening?
This would have been in elementary school.
Yeah, I remember it actuallyin , the fourth grade.
On Mondays, we would come back and sit ina circle and talk about our weekend and it
became a running joke in class where wewould get to me and instead of asking what
(02:37):
I did over the weekend, they would justask what movies I saw over the weekend.
So then, you just want tomake movies and acting.
That's what we see, we don't knowwhat's going on behind the camera
or even that there is a camera.
So, when do you start really takingit seriously like, this is what I
maybe wanna do for the rest of my lifeand how do you come to Grand Valley?
In my senior year of high school,they started a class that was
(03:00):
like a test run of film and video.
We had like mini DV then theytaught us a very little bit about
framing and we edited on Premiere.
The final project was - youjust make a short film.
And so mine was this ridiculously long20 minute short film that was just a
rip off of a Clockwork - Orange" itwas called a "Clockwork Chapter".
(03:24):
It had characters from "Clockwork Orange",like Droogs and it was just really
long, really bad 10 minute walkingscenes, but, it was my first time really
creatively writing and staging stuffand filming it and being thoughtful.
Okay, how do I get this from the paperand get it into what I'm picturing in
my mind and get it into the camera?
It was so fun and I remember beinglike, okay, being behind the camera
(03:48):
is actually where I want to be.
This is cool.
Yeah that's cool, 'cause I mean,I think a lot of young filmmakers
are inspired by like big, loud,Titanic-y, Terminator kind of stuff.
But, I've seen some of your workwhile you're at Grand Valley.
I remember Sean Baker said that he wentto NYU to make the next Die Hard...
and by the time he left, hewas just making films about two
(04:10):
people talking for 10 minutes.
When did you start to find your voiceand things that were important to you
that you wanted to talk about in films?
I don't know, man, I feellike I didn't find my voice.
It wasn't until, recently that I reallyfound where I want to be as far as
that goes, after high school, I grew upjust watching the mainstream stuff...
the furthest I got was like Kubrick andScorsese, which was a great place to be.
(04:33):
In college, I went to GRCC and took abasic film studies class and that was
the first time where I watched "CityLights" by Chaplin and that completely
blew my mind because I was one of, we'relike, "I don't want to watch a black and
white movie, that's boring, that's old".
The class was laughing, I was laughing,I was feeling emotion like, all of the
(04:54):
moments were hitting even though thiswas in like, 34, or whatever year and I
just remember being like, "Wow, this isso powerful of a movie,"and it's silent!
We watched "Cinema Paradiso", we watched"Casablanca", which is still one of
my favorites, I love old Hollywood.
We definitely watched "Bicycle Thieves",which then introduced me into Neo-Realism
and World Cinema and Art Film, which thenled me into the New Wave, French New Wave.
(05:18):
All of these new forms, all of thesenew things were just blowing my mind.
Especially the French New Wave.
Once I transferred from GRCC toGVSU, I started taking more in depth,
film studies classes and just startedwatching more stuff on my own, like
discovering Criterion and just exposingmyself to different forms , like
Japanese New Wave is also incredible.
(05:41):
I remember the first time watching"Occult Is My Passport" and I was just
like, "it's so cool", and just sofresh, like it just remains fresh.
And so, really then I was like, "Oh,movies aren't just these Titanics
and Terminator 2s and Predators",there's just a whole literal world
out there of ways to make movies.
(06:01):
I think as, early film students, youget a little pretentious - "I don't
want to watch that trash anymore", I'mlike, "I'm sticking to my Godard's"
so, I got into that for a littlewhile - for quite a while - and I
still love those movies, but that'swhere I started being like, "Okay, I
think I want to tell something else."
I think having seen your work, you'reriding that fine line between your early
(06:22):
inspirations like "Terminator 2", butalso Godard and Truffaut, combining
some, like there's blood in your movies!
And there's also this artful way to itso like, at Grand Valley, what were the
classes that really connected with youas a filmmaker, where like, you discover
directing or audio or cinematography?
Cause you're ultimately a Director, butall Directors know the whole world and
(06:44):
know how to write and know how to produce.
So what was it that reallyhooked you and were like, "Yeah,
this is what I want to do."
Is it writing or directing,what's your true love and did
you find it at Grand Valley?
it's always been writing and directing.
Taking a screenwriting course was great.
I remember being very thankful that Iwas learning how to actually write a
screenplay and that was really exciting.
(07:06):
I remember also, at that time, thescreenwriting professor had worked in
Hollywood as like a script doctor andthat was a big deal, but I remember on
the first day of class, he was like, "Whoin here wants to be Writer/Directors?"
And everybody raised theirhand, he was like, "You'll be
lucky if one of you makes it."
And I remember being like, "Damn.
(07:26):
What is, like, what a jerk."
But I felt that as a challenge andI think about that to this day.
When you're in your 20s and you'refresh to filmmaking, I feel like
the reason that I'm here -that I'mstill pursuing this - is because
I've had people just being " Yes.
Keep going, you're doing great."
And I've been very fortunate to have that.
(07:48):
I remember, we had Marie Ulrich whotaught Fiction 1 and she did this indie
film, "Alley Cat" that premiered at theChicago International Film Festival and
at the time, that was a huge deal for us.
Just to have filmmakers in theprogram, she was so influential.
She introduced me to Judith Weston,as far as directing actors go and this
whole new way of working with actorsand thinking about the craft of acting.
(08:12):
One of the most influentialpeople was also Suzanne Zack.
Suzanne taught me the fundamentalsof everything, and just championed
us in a way that was reallyfundamental I feel like in me being
like, "Okay, yeah, I can do this."
We had Philbin, John Philbin, who wasalso fun and taught us how to shoot
on film and ...yeah, so fictionclasses were always my favorite.
(08:33):
so I didn't get to direct until my thesis.
That was my first timeactually directing on my own.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
I think a lot of students are in thatsituation where they don't get an
opportunity to direct in maybe a FictionFilmmaking class, but the thesis
is their chance to really put it outthere and make something big and bold.
What did you do with that film - didyou really love it and decide to
(08:54):
submit it to film festivals, useit as a calling card to find an
agent - What happened after that film?
For the thesis at GVSU?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So with that, at the time of not gettingchosen to direct, I was probably salty?
I don't remember any feelings ofsaltiness, but it was probably there.
While I was on set, I gave it my all,but I was also very observational as
(09:18):
far as what are these directors doing?
What do I like that they're doing?
How is it landing on the actors?
How is it landing on the DPs?
And so I was really observing whatthey were doing, what I would do
differently, what I thought wasworking, what I thought wasn't.
I was just doing my job, but alsoreally focusing on observing.
And then, with my thesis, I was, obsessedwith Linklater - I still am today, but-
(09:44):
What's your favorite Linklater
? "Before Sunset".
The second, the middle one of the trilogy.
He's just one of those weird directorswho's done so many different genres
and styles and tones and I'm alwayscurious what are they responding
to Linklater which version of him?
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean I love a lot of his work.
but yeah, so I was like, "I'mgoing to do a walk and talk romance
(10:04):
It was like 15 minutes long.
At the time I was like, "Ohman, this is gonna get me into
Sundance, this is Cinema."
it was a lot of fun to shoot, Ishot it with my friends at GV.
Caleb Dawdy - who's one of the fewothers that was really into French New
Wave and Jazz and black and white moviesand smoking cigarettes and we would
(10:24):
just hang out and listen to records andwatch New Wave movies - it was very
ridiculous, but we got along so well, andit was such a good, working relationship.
He DP'd that and then CareseBartlett, you know, former GV people.
But yeah, we made it, it was receivedwell at the showcase, which was great.
The professors loved it, which was great.
(10:45):
I'm feeling good.
And then I get it on FilmFreewayand I was like, "Alright, Sundance."
I just put it out - and thatwas my first time really feeling
the taste of extreme rejection.
Every big film festival or mid-sized Ijust got rejected from mostly everywhere.
I certainly got into some but, couldn'ttell you the names of the festivals.
(11:07):
I moved to New York City right aftergraduating for no reason other than Caleb,
the guy I just mentioned was moving thereand his partner, Terra, was doing her
Master's program so they asked me if Iwanted to go ." So I got it into this
tiny film festival called, I don't know,New Filmmakers New York, or something?
I forget what it's called, but it screensat Anthology Archives, and so I moved
(11:30):
there and got in, and I got to screenmy thesis in a really old theater, in the
Lower East Side, which just felt so cool?
The theater was completelyempty - it was me and the other
filmmakers and that was it, maybelike we all had one friend there.
But it was so cool regardless.
It was like, seeing it in a theater,out in New York, or just outside of
(11:53):
GVSU, I was like, "Okay, I want to dothis, I want to get more butts in these
seats," it didn't get me anythingbesides, a challenge or the will to
keep going and to do something stronger.
Yeah, I know a lot of filmmakers,once they get all those rejection
letters, sometimes that just putsa damper on your creative spirit
and you start to doubt that.
But you moved to New York and you didn'tdoubt yourself, or maybe you did, I don't
(12:15):
know, but you still - you got into theNYU grad program there so talk about when
you decided to, apply and what does thatfeel like when you get that acceptance
letter and just talk a little bit aboutyour time at NYU, which is I'm sure much
different than it was at Grand Valley.
Yeah so actually thatwas three years later.
I moved to to NY , just to movethere with no plan or anything.
(12:37):
Right.
And then, I want to touch onthe self doubt part, cause
that's, that was always there.
Yeah.
That's still always there.
Yep.
But yeah, I moved to New York, Iwrote a script there called "Mino
Bimaadiziwin", and then I submitted it tothe Sundance lab - specifically for the
Indigenous program - and it was chosen.
So they take your script and you go toSanta Fe and you workshop it for a week.
(12:59):
The first day, you workshop the script.
The second day , they hire actors andyou work with actors, but you also have
a team of advisors who are Directorswho work in the industry and you test
shoot a scene, and then you edit it,and then you screen it and get feedback,
but all throughout you have theseDirectors behind you giving advice
(13:21):
and walking you through the process.
Two of them were NYU professors.
And through that, they were asking mequestions that I just never had ever
thought about, like questions as faras story, character, and motivations,
and just basic things that we thinkabout now, but at that time was
like, "Oh, these are good questions."
What does your characterwant in this scene?
What are they doing in the scene?
(13:43):
After that workshop of just intense 12hour days, just thinking about the script,
thinking about the scene nonstop - Irealized that I had so much still to
learn, like I came out of GVSU hotthinking "Alright, I'm gonna do these
things" and then I went there, did theworkshop and I was like "Shit, I don't
know anything," that's just how muchthere is of filmmaking and storytelling.
(14:04):
Yeah, that's what Kurosawa said when hegot his honorary Oscar at age 80, he's
like, "I still have so much to learn."
Like, that is very true, man.
Yeah.
So that lab - is it true that theydon't want you to actually work on
the, actual script during that lab?
I don't think we actually didwork on the script in the lab,
So you have this amazing chanceat the Sundance Screenwriters
(14:24):
Lab and then they workshop yourscript and then you filmed that.
Yeah, so then they give you agrant to make it - it was $25,000,
which at that time I was like,"I have no idea what to do."
How do you even spendthat money, probably.
And so I was like, "Alright, NewYork," is, - I'm just working all
the time, I'm not getting anything,it's depressing and expensive, and
(14:44):
so I was like, "I'm moving back home.
I'm gonna make these movies".
I moved back to Grand Rapids to focus onthe film because it takes place there.
This was in 2017 weshot it and released it.
So then I brought on some peopleit was a really great shoot.
I was like, okay, I gotthis Sundance financed film.
I feel really good about it.
Submitted to Sundance Film Festival...
(15:05):
and got rejected.
And I was devastated,
Yeah, they foster your scriptand give you money to make it
and then say it's not good enoughor, "Better luck next time, pal."
That's gotta be reallyconfusing, if nothing else.
Yeah, it was.
Really took it hard.
Luckily, the Native program, theytold me before I got the generic
(15:25):
Sundance, rejection, but they talkedto me over the phone so it wasn't
as hard, I was still devastated.
All throughout GVSU andschool, I was like, I've always
hated school all my life.
I'm never going back.
I'm out.
I'm in the real world."
But if I ever went to grad school,it would be NYU because that's
where Scorsese and Spike Lee went.
(15:45):
Like I said, I had two NYU professorsat my lab, called them up, talked more
about grad school and at NYU specifically.
There was two weeks before thedeadline for grad school, I hadn't
thought about it until I got thatrejection from Sundance and then I
was just like, "I gotta do this."
I thought I was a completefailure, which isn't true.
I need to learn everything I can now.
(16:05):
That's why I applied to, grad schooland that was in 2018 that I went.
I was very lucky in that thosetwo people I met were at NYU
How long was that program scheduled to be?
It's a three to four year program,
And then COVID interruptedsome of that, right?
So, what was your time like at NYU?
It was incredible, you take two semestersworth of classes every semester so it's
(16:28):
double the class load that you have.
You're there from 9am until around 5 andthen you're always working on a project.
So you have one big project that youwork on for the semester and every class
is garnered towards that end project.
You take a Producing class, a Directingclass, a Writing class, a Directing The
Actors class, Editing, Cinematography,Aesthetics, Film Viewing, some random
(16:53):
ones sprinkled in there like FilmSafety - that's the first year.
And then, you get directingexercises every week.
You have to cast andshoot directing exercises.
They start off very simple and then theyget more complex as you go, you know,
but it's like go shoot an establishingshot from two different ways of a
location that tells us character of thelocation or something like that, and
(17:14):
then it gets much more specific andyou're doing it with cast and stuff, so.
You're there for 12 hours a day atNYU just thinking about film non-stop
and it's the most intense time of mylife, it's really like film boot camp.
That lasts for four years.
So, it all kind of culminates similarto Grand Valley in a thesis film, right?
(17:35):
Yeah so, before my thesis, I made a shortcalled "Happy Thanksgiving", and that's
the second year film and you focus onone 10 minute short for the entire year.
And then you get three months offthe middle of the year to shoot,
you have to work on everybody'sand it's like rotating and stuff.
And then you edit it and you screenit in front of professors and you
(17:56):
get ripped apart in front of yourclass and you continue to edit it.
But my film, "Happy Thanksgiving"was shot on film, had all these
locations, it was in Grand Rapids,produced from New York and had a food
fight - like a very complicated script.
Lots of scenes, lots of characters,lots of things happening.
It was hell.
It was really the hardestshoot that I've ever had
(18:18):
- Just because the logistics?
I know you were shooting on 16, but alsojust that many locations and characters?
Yeah.
Logistics, the weather was reallybad, we happened to have just a
lot of weather related incidences.
A tree fell on one of the trailersand ripped it up, WKTV's trailer.
All these cars got stuck in mud,it was like natural disasters
(18:38):
all around, film disasters...
just everything that could gowrong did and then COVID happened
in the middle of the editingprocess and I got very depressed.
Stopped working completely.
Wasn't happy with how themovie was coming along.
I was like, "Again, I'm a failure," andso I stopped and I was like, "I'm done.
I'm putting this away.
I'm going to go travel, I don't knowif I'll come back to filmmaking."
(19:01):
Wow.
I did, it was like, me andmy partner drove around the
country and traveled around.
I went to like someactivist protest camps.
Just got out and didn'tthink about movies at all.
And then, I was like, "You knowwhat, so many people worked so hard
on this that I have to finish this.
I have to finish it at leastfor the actors and the crew."
So I did and was received reallywell by my class and by the NYU
(19:24):
community, so I was like, "Okay.
I need to do this again.
I need to do something."
And so for my thesis - thistime, I'm going to learn from my
mistakes, I'm going to make onewith two characters and that it.
and just really test how am Igoing to direct two people in one
location and keep it interesting.
So that was the idea of my thesis.
(19:44):
And that was The Beguiling, right?
Yeah.
So, you make "The Beguiling" and I knowthis is - as far as my understanding
of the Shane McSauby story - wherethings really start to happen as far
as industry attention and maybe evencaught you off guard with how quickly
this one took off and got well received.
What is that editing process likeas you're putting it together, cause
(20:05):
that is like the worst feeling whenyou're editing something and you're
just not seeing the magic, thatwas there on the page and on set.
So is "The Beguiling" like more of aconfidence builder as you're filming it
and as you're editing it and then whatdo you do with it once you finish it?
To get the attention?
Yeah.
So, making it was a huge confidencebooster because it was honestly one
of the best sets I've ever had . Wereally prepped for it, we shot it in my
(20:27):
apartment back in Brooklyn and it justcame along so nicely, we had such a good
crew and it was really such a lovely time.
And then editing it, yeah, is alwaysa journey and I brought out an editor
this time instead of doing it myself.
I built it to a certain point,passed it off to an editor, and
then we really worked together todo it and it took a long time to
get to a place that I was happy.
(20:48):
I was aiming for a TIFF deadline.
TIFF being the TorontoInternational Film Festival.
Yes, yes, Toronto International FilmFestival . Which is, you know, big
and I was being very ambitious, I think.
Yeah, that's a top, fivefilm festival in the world,
Yeah.
I was like, "I'm really happy withthis, I think it's got potential."
So I submitted a rough cut- temporary score, temporary, color.
(21:11):
I got the notification that I wasaccepted and going to be screening and
then I thought it was a mistake, signedthe paperwork as quick as I could, you
know, and was like, okay, contractuallyobligated to allow me to continue on
but yeah so, screen at TIFF - We hireda publicist that my partner knew - my
partner also produced it - so wehad a plan going into TIFF because
I've heard of people getting into bigfestivals and it goes nowhere, so this
(21:34):
is a once in a lifetime opportunity,I want to get the most out of it, I
had meetings a lot while I was there,and one of those meetings was with a
management company, Entertainment 360.
We met a number of times just overthe phone and that continued after
TIFF, we decided to work together.
And during this time, you had been hiredas an Adjunct Professor in the winter
(21:55):
of 24 and then this semester - we arein the fall of 24 - you were brought
on as a Visiting Professor, so howhave you found managing your teaching
load while also trying to be relevantin the industry and do your own thing?
Are you able to find that balance and isit like, beneficial to your filmmaking,
are they like feeding off each other?
Definitely feeding off of each other.
(22:15):
I would say the first semester that Itaught, the winter semester, was really
hard as far as finding the balance.
I really just put all of my energy intothe semester and multiple people tell me
like, it takes some time, but you'll findthe balance and you have to make that.
I find that this semester, I'mfinding more balance, but it
definitely feeds off each other.
It's really helpful and inspiringI feel like to be in these creative
(22:37):
spaces to be talking about story,to see people start to get it or
start to put it into practice.
I feed off of that, To see youngerpeople explore and want to be creative.
It really makes you want to be on top ofyour stuff as far as a filmmaker goes.
I'm a Grand Valley alum too and goingback to what you learned on "Happy
(22:57):
Thanksgiving" is something that Icontinue to learn and one of the
things that I brought to Grand Valleyright away was let me help you get
your vision on film, but also let'stry to reduce the stress levels.
I tell them in my Fiction 1class, we're going to keep it
a maximum of two locations anda maximum of four characters.
I feel like that really helps themrein in their idea and find their
(23:21):
focus and make it manageable andrealistic, on a two day shoot.
Are there any things that you learned thatyou didn't get at Grand Valley, you didn't
have someone say, "Hey Shane, keep thelocations to one or two and the characters
to two or three to make this manageable."
Is there anything that you learned sinceyour time at Grand Valley that you're now
bringing to your students in your classes?
Keeping things simple.
(23:42):
Really just trying to bring stuffdown and really focus in on a moment.
Yeah, I think it's just natural towant to go big when you're young this
is usually what you're watching atthat stage, it's like big grand things
and one of the things for writingspecifically, is don't focus on plot.
You have the plot, but once youget in there it's like, we
watch movies for characters.
NYU is a very character-driven,storytelling place.
(24:04):
That's what sticks out to us, islike, what is the character doing?
If you focus too much on the plot andthe theme, it's really easy to sort
of get lost and confused in the plotand in the themes so really focus on
just what your character's doing, givethem an objective, and figure out what
they're doing and what's preventingthem from doing that, and then how
do they feel about what they're doingas well, and it'll fall in place.
(24:25):
Spending all this time developing avoice as a filmmaker, now I feel like I
need to develop my voice as a professor,what can I bring that's new and fresh?
I mean it's inherently ingrained in how Iteach because it's just my understanding,
I think it's every day and then everyweek is learning like, "Okay, this
didn't work so let's try something else,"it's a lot of play and it's a lot of fresh
stuff to play with, which is exciting.
Yeah.
(24:45):
I didn't learn the thing about avoidingplot until really late in life when I was
getting my teeth cleaned and the dentalhygienist was asking me what I do and I
got into that small talk while somebody'sgot a, pick in your mouth and she just
kept talking and she goes well, I guessthat's why we go to the movies, right?
Just to feel something."
And I kind of dismissed it for aminute, and then I was like, "Oh
my gosh, she just blew my mind!
(25:05):
If we don't feel anything,what's the point of this?"
so.
Rely on those charactersand emotions, man.
Right now you are still touringaround festivals with "The Beguiling".
I assume the next step probably isdeveloping your first feature maybe?
Like what's the goalfor the next year or two?
So I have two features that I'm developingright now and trying to get those off
(25:28):
the ground as we continue on the festivalcircuit, using those spaces to get
some excitement around these features.
And then, I'm just really tryingto work on my writing, routine
Yeah.
With our final thought here, I'msure students listening to this or
anybody listening to this aspiring tobe a filmmaker is - they always like,
what is there one piece of advice?
(25:48):
And I remember for me, it wasactually when I was at Grand Valley.
I had had a lot of classes with KimRoberts and John Philbin and I made my
thesis film - It was this music video,and it was really like slick, and looked
great, and it almost could play onMTV, and I was really excited about it.
And Kim Roberts was a big supporter ofme, like I was this weird, experimental,
(26:09):
art house kind of guy and I showedher that thesis feeling so excited.
All she said was, "It's great,just doesn't feel like you".
And I was like, whoa, you know, forabout half an hour, I was like, "Whatever
Kim, you don't know nothing, man!"
And then I was like, man, she is soright and it's like the one thing
daily I remind myself, " Yeah,this is good, but is this me?"
(26:30):
That is so crucial to me as a filmmakerand a professor,like somebody else
teaches it this way, but this is me.
What can you leave our listeners with theone thing that stuck with you or hopefully
will stick with future filmmakers?
I have two things, one is that - Thisis a journey and that filmmaking
is a marathon, not a sprint.
There's not even necessarily an end point.
(26:52):
Know that this is a really longprocess and it takes people a really
long time to get off the ground.
When you're in your twenties, that'swhen you're figuring out who you are.
And so, the way you do that is toexplore life, focus on living, which is
corny , but true, you know, and then asyou're exploring living, explore filming.
Be experimental, takerisks, make mistakes.
(27:14):
That's the only way thatyou'll find your voice.
I feel like I didn't find mine untilrecently in my 30s where I was like, I
feel confident in who I am as a person?
But you're always still searching.
I think when you accept the factthat there's no sort of end point
in life - there's one I guess, butthere's no point at which you just get
(27:35):
it and everything falls into place.
Yeah.
And once you understand that everybody'sjust trying to figure it out and you
can apply that to filmmaking, or whateverit is that you're passionate about and
that you're doing, it frees you fromyour expectations and you can just
be in the process of doing and making
. It takes time to get there but as you keep that in mind, keep making and
keep exploring and messing up and don'ttake failure and rejections to heart.
(28:00):
You know, It's all part of the process.
Yeah, I'm with you.
It took me about 15 years, I didn'tfind my voice till I was about 32.
And it just took 15 years of makingand failing and little successes
and little failures until I kindof like, found that moment.
It's a big deal, you can onlyget there by putting in your
10, 000 hours, as they say.
Yeah.
Well thanks Shane!
It was great talking to you.
It's great to have you on campus,we'll catch up in the hallways but
(28:23):
until then, track down Shane's work.
Where can we find someof this work, Shane?
Some of it is on Vimeo.
I have a website - Ishkwaazhe.com.
I think it's linked on there,otherwise - I always feel pretentious
saying this, but you can Googlemy name and my Vimeo comes up.
You totally can!
You played TIFF, man, you're famous now!
I have no comment.
(28:44):
Alright!
But thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.
See you guys.
Thank you for joining --us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
(29:06):
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm/ video, major and alumni profiles.
Welcome to another edition of Alumni Live.
My name is Joel Potrykus.
I am a Assistant Professor hereat Grand Valley State University
speaking with alum Ishkwaazhe ShaneMcSauby, who is a new visiting faculty
(00:27):
member here at Grand Valley as well.
How you doing Shane?
I'm good.
Happy to be here.
So what I want to do today is talka little bit about your time in the
film program here at Grand Valley.
How you found your way in the industry,if you pursued grad school, how
you found your way back to GrandValley, and then what's your hopes
here and in the industry today, so.
(00:47):
Can you just give us a little backstoryon where you grew up and how you
became interested in filmmaking?
Yeah yeah.
So I'm from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
I grew up, born and raised here,and I've just always loved film
for as long as I can remember.
When I was younger, I wantedto be an actor though.
you know, you don't know theprocess of filmmaking until
you get to a certain point.
So I wanted to be an actor growingup, but I grew up going to the
(01:10):
Alpine Four Theater, which waslike the second run theater.
It had a dollar twenty five tickets
So instead of going on vacations ordoing other things, we always just went
to the movies multiple times a week.
I just saw whatever was out and grewup that way and then my aunt also had
this double decker VCR and she wouldjust record boxes of tapes of movies.
(01:33):
We would just have boxes andboxes of recorded VHSs with
three or four movies on them.
If I wasn't at the theater, Iwas just watching these tapes.
I grew up in that way and Iwas watching movies all the
time and completely obsessed.
Can you think of one at thetheater and one on VHS that really
stuck with you more than others?
One that sticks out with mein the theaters is honestly,
(01:54):
and this was a little, I wasa little older, but "Titanic"?
I saw that one so many timesin theaters, it's ridiculous.
And just has everything in it, drama and
and disaster and,it's justthe package of everything.
And then for VHS, "Terminator 2".
I don't remember seeing that onein theaters, but I remember just
watching it obsessively on VHS.
(02:16):
So that, what do you think, isthat like your elementary school,
high school, when all of thisformative viewing is happening?
This would have been in elementary school.
Yeah, I remember it actuallyin , the fourth grade.
On Mondays, we would come back and sit ina circle and talk about our weekend and it
became a running joke in class where wewould get to me and instead of asking what
(02:37):
I did over the weekend, they would justask what movies I saw over the weekend.
So then, you just want tomake movies and acting.
That's what we see, we don't knowwhat's going on behind the camera
or even that there is a camera.
So, when do you start really takingit seriously like, this is what I
maybe wanna do for the rest of my lifeand how do you come to Grand Valley?
In my senior year of high school,they started a class that was
(03:00):
like a test run of film and video.
We had like mini DV then theytaught us a very little bit about
framing and we edited on Premiere.
The final project was - youjust make a short film.
And so mine was this ridiculously long20 minute short film that was just a
rip off of a Clockwork - Orange" itwas called a "Clockwork Chapter".
(03:24):
It had characters from "Clockwork Orange",like Droogs and it was just really
long, really bad 10 minute walkingscenes, but, it was my first time really
creatively writing and staging stuffand filming it and being thoughtful.
Okay, how do I get this from the paperand get it into what I'm picturing in
my mind and get it into the camera?
It was so fun and I remember beinglike, okay, being behind the camera
(03:48):
is actually where I want to be.
This is cool.
Yeah that's cool, 'cause I mean,I think a lot of young filmmakers
are inspired by like big, loud,Titanic-y, Terminator kind of stuff.
But, I've seen some of your workwhile you're at Grand Valley.
I remember Sean Baker said that he wentto NYU to make the next Die Hard...
and by the time he left, hewas just making films about two
(04:10):
people talking for 10 minutes.
When did you start to find your voiceand things that were important to you
that you wanted to talk about in films?
I don't know, man, I feellike I didn't find my voice.
It wasn't until, recently that I reallyfound where I want to be as far as
that goes, after high school, I grew upjust watching the mainstream stuff...
the furthest I got was like Kubrick andScorsese, which was a great place to be.
(04:33):
In college, I went to GRCC and took abasic film studies class and that was
the first time where I watched "CityLights" by Chaplin and that completely
blew my mind because I was one of, we'relike, "I don't want to watch a black and
white movie, that's boring, that's old".
The class was laughing, I was laughing,I was feeling emotion like, all of the
(04:54):
moments were hitting even though thiswas in like, 34, or whatever year and I
just remember being like, "Wow, this isso powerful of a movie,"and it's silent!
We watched "Cinema Paradiso", we watched"Casablanca", which is still one of
my favorites, I love old Hollywood.
We definitely watched "Bicycle Thieves",which then introduced me into Neo-Realism
and World Cinema and Art Film, which thenled me into the New Wave, French New Wave.
(05:18):
All of these new forms, all of thesenew things were just blowing my mind.
Especially the French New Wave.
Once I transferred from GRCC toGVSU, I started taking more in depth,
film studies classes and just startedwatching more stuff on my own, like
discovering Criterion and just exposingmyself to different forms , like
Japanese New Wave is also incredible.
(05:41):
I remember the first time watching"Occult Is My Passport" and I was just
like, "it's so cool", and just sofresh, like it just remains fresh.
And so, really then I was like, "Oh,movies aren't just these Titanics
and Terminator 2s and Predators",there's just a whole literal world
out there of ways to make movies.
(06:01):
I think as, early film students, youget a little pretentious - "I don't
want to watch that trash anymore", I'mlike, "I'm sticking to my Godard's"
so, I got into that for a littlewhile - for quite a while - and I
still love those movies, but that'swhere I started being like, "Okay, I
think I want to tell something else."
I think having seen your work, you'reriding that fine line between your early
(06:22):
inspirations like "Terminator 2", butalso Godard and Truffaut, combining
some, like there's blood in your movies!
And there's also this artful way to itso like, at Grand Valley, what were the
classes that really connected with youas a filmmaker, where like, you discover
directing or audio or cinematography?
Cause you're ultimately a Director, butall Directors know the whole world and
(06:44):
know how to write and know how to produce.
So what was it that reallyhooked you and were like, "Yeah,
this is what I want to do."
Is it writing or directing,what's your true love and did
you find it at Grand Valley?
it's always been writing and directing.
Taking a screenwriting course was great.
I remember being very thankful that Iwas learning how to actually write a
screenplay and that was really exciting.
(07:06):
I remember also, at that time, thescreenwriting professor had worked in
Hollywood as like a script doctor andthat was a big deal, but I remember on
the first day of class, he was like, "Whoin here wants to be Writer/Directors?"
And everybody raised theirhand, he was like, "You'll be
lucky if one of you makes it."
And I remember being like, "Damn.
(07:26):
What is, like, what a jerk."
But I felt that as a challenge andI think about that to this day.
When you're in your 20s and you'refresh to filmmaking, I feel like
the reason that I'm here -that I'mstill pursuing this - is because
I've had people just being " Yes.
Keep going, you're doing great."
And I've been very fortunate to have that.
(07:48):
I remember, we had Marie Ulrich whotaught Fiction 1 and she did this indie
film, "Alley Cat" that premiered at theChicago International Film Festival and
at the time, that was a huge deal for us.
Just to have filmmakers in theprogram, she was so influential.
She introduced me to Judith Weston,as far as directing actors go and this
whole new way of working with actorsand thinking about the craft of acting.
(08:12):
One of the most influentialpeople was also Suzanne Zack.
Suzanne taught me the fundamentalsof everything, and just championed
us in a way that was reallyfundamental I feel like in me being
like, "Okay, yeah, I can do this."
We had Philbin, John Philbin, who wasalso fun and taught us how to shoot
on film and ...yeah, so fictionclasses were always my favorite.
(08:33):
so I didn't get to direct until my thesis.
That was my first timeactually directing on my own.
Yeah, let's talk about that.
I think a lot of students are in thatsituation where they don't get an
opportunity to direct in maybe a FictionFilmmaking class, but the thesis
is their chance to really put it outthere and make something big and bold.
What did you do with that film - didyou really love it and decide to
(08:54):
submit it to film festivals, useit as a calling card to find an
agent - What happened after that film?
For the thesis at GVSU?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So with that, at the time of not gettingchosen to direct, I was probably salty?
I don't remember any feelings ofsaltiness, but it was probably there.
While I was on set, I gave it my all,but I was also very observational as
(09:18):
far as what are these directors doing?
What do I like that they're doing?
How is it landing on the actors?
How is it landing on the DPs?
And so I was really observing whatthey were doing, what I would do
differently, what I thought wasworking, what I thought wasn't.
I was just doing my job, but alsoreally focusing on observing.
And then, with my thesis, I was, obsessedwith Linklater - I still am today, but-
(09:44):
What's your favorite Linklater
? "Before Sunset".
The second, the middle one of the trilogy.
He's just one of those weird directorswho's done so many different genres
and styles and tones and I'm alwayscurious what are they responding
to Linklater which version of him?
Right, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean I love a lot of his work.
but yeah, so I was like, "I'mgoing to do a walk and talk romance
(10:04):
It was like 15 minutes long.
At the time I was like, "Ohman, this is gonna get me into
Sundance, this is Cinema."
it was a lot of fun to shoot, Ishot it with my friends at GV.
Caleb Dawdy - who's one of the fewothers that was really into French New
Wave and Jazz and black and white moviesand smoking cigarettes and we would
(10:24):
just hang out and listen to records andwatch New Wave movies - it was very
ridiculous, but we got along so well, andit was such a good, working relationship.
He DP'd that and then CareseBartlett, you know, former GV people.
But yeah, we made it, it was receivedwell at the showcase, which was great.
The professors loved it, which was great.
(10:45):
I'm feeling good.
And then I get it on FilmFreewayand I was like, "Alright, Sundance."
I just put it out - and thatwas my first time really feeling
the taste of extreme rejection.
Every big film festival or mid-sized Ijust got rejected from mostly everywhere.
I certainly got into some but, couldn'ttell you the names of the festivals.
(11:07):
I moved to New York City right aftergraduating for no reason other than Caleb,
the guy I just mentioned was moving thereand his partner, Terra, was doing her
Master's program so they asked me if Iwanted to go ." So I got it into this
tiny film festival called, I don't know,New Filmmakers New York, or something?
I forget what it's called, but it screensat Anthology Archives, and so I moved
(11:30):
there and got in, and I got to screenmy thesis in a really old theater, in the
Lower East Side, which just felt so cool?
The theater was completelyempty - it was me and the other
filmmakers and that was it, maybelike we all had one friend there.
But it was so cool regardless.
It was like, seeing it in a theater,out in New York, or just outside of
(11:53):
GVSU, I was like, "Okay, I want to dothis, I want to get more butts in these
seats," it didn't get me anythingbesides, a challenge or the will to
keep going and to do something stronger.
Yeah, I know a lot of filmmakers,once they get all those rejection
letters, sometimes that just putsa damper on your creative spirit
and you start to doubt that.
But you moved to New York and you didn'tdoubt yourself, or maybe you did, I don't
(12:15):
know, but you still - you got into theNYU grad program there so talk about when
you decided to, apply and what does thatfeel like when you get that acceptance
letter and just talk a little bit aboutyour time at NYU, which is I'm sure much
different than it was at Grand Valley.
Yeah so actually thatwas three years later.
I moved to to NY , just to movethere with no plan or anything.
(12:37):
Right.
And then, I want to touch onthe self doubt part, cause
that's, that was always there.
Yeah.
That's still always there.
Yep.
But yeah, I moved to New York, Iwrote a script there called "Mino
Bimaadiziwin", and then I submitted it tothe Sundance lab - specifically for the
Indigenous program - and it was chosen.
So they take your script and you go toSanta Fe and you workshop it for a week.
(12:59):
The first day, you workshop the script.
The second day , they hire actors andyou work with actors, but you also have
a team of advisors who are Directorswho work in the industry and you test
shoot a scene, and then you edit it,and then you screen it and get feedback,
but all throughout you have theseDirectors behind you giving advice
(13:21):
and walking you through the process.
Two of them were NYU professors.
And through that, they were asking mequestions that I just never had ever
thought about, like questions as faras story, character, and motivations,
and just basic things that we thinkabout now, but at that time was
like, "Oh, these are good questions."
What does your characterwant in this scene?
What are they doing in the scene?
(13:43):
After that workshop of just intense 12hour days, just thinking about the script,
thinking about the scene nonstop - Irealized that I had so much still to
learn, like I came out of GVSU hotthinking "Alright, I'm gonna do these
things" and then I went there, did theworkshop and I was like "Shit, I don't
know anything," that's just how muchthere is of filmmaking and storytelling.
(14:04):
Yeah, that's what Kurosawa said when hegot his honorary Oscar at age 80, he's
like, "I still have so much to learn."
Like, that is very true, man.
Yeah.
So that lab - is it true that theydon't want you to actually work on
the, actual script during that lab?
I don't think we actually didwork on the script in the lab,
So you have this amazing chanceat the Sundance Screenwriters
(14:24):
Lab and then they workshop yourscript and then you filmed that.
Yeah, so then they give you agrant to make it - it was $25,000,
which at that time I was like,"I have no idea what to do."
How do you even spendthat money, probably.
And so I was like, "Alright, NewYork," is, - I'm just working all
the time, I'm not getting anything,it's depressing and expensive, and
(14:44):
so I was like, "I'm moving back home.
I'm gonna make these movies".
I moved back to Grand Rapids to focus onthe film because it takes place there.
This was in 2017 weshot it and released it.
So then I brought on some peopleit was a really great shoot.
I was like, okay, I gotthis Sundance financed film.
I feel really good about it.
Submitted to Sundance Film Festival...
(15:05):
and got rejected.
And I was devastated,
Yeah, they foster your scriptand give you money to make it
and then say it's not good enoughor, "Better luck next time, pal."
That's gotta be reallyconfusing, if nothing else.
Yeah, it was.
Really took it hard.
Luckily, the Native program, theytold me before I got the generic
(15:25):
Sundance, rejection, but they talkedto me over the phone so it wasn't
as hard, I was still devastated.
All throughout GVSU andschool, I was like, I've always
hated school all my life.
I'm never going back.
I'm out.
I'm in the real world."
But if I ever went to grad school,it would be NYU because that's
where Scorsese and Spike Lee went.
(15:45):
Like I said, I had two NYU professorsat my lab, called them up, talked more
about grad school and at NYU specifically.
There was two weeks before thedeadline for grad school, I hadn't
thought about it until I got thatrejection from Sundance and then I
was just like, "I gotta do this."
I thought I was a completefailure, which isn't true.
I need to learn everything I can now.
(16:05):
That's why I applied to, grad schooland that was in 2018 that I went.
I was very lucky in that thosetwo people I met were at NYU
How long was that program scheduled to be?
It's a three to four year program,
And then COVID interruptedsome of that, right?
So, what was your time like at NYU?
It was incredible, you take two semestersworth of classes every semester so it's
(16:28):
double the class load that you have.
You're there from 9am until around 5 andthen you're always working on a project.
So you have one big project that youwork on for the semester and every class
is garnered towards that end project.
You take a Producing class, a Directingclass, a Writing class, a Directing The
Actors class, Editing, Cinematography,Aesthetics, Film Viewing, some random
(16:53):
ones sprinkled in there like FilmSafety - that's the first year.
And then, you get directingexercises every week.
You have to cast andshoot directing exercises.
They start off very simple and then theyget more complex as you go, you know,
but it's like go shoot an establishingshot from two different ways of a
location that tells us character of thelocation or something like that, and
(17:14):
then it gets much more specific andyou're doing it with cast and stuff, so.
You're there for 12 hours a day atNYU just thinking about film non-stop
and it's the most intense time of mylife, it's really like film boot camp.
That lasts for four years.
So, it all kind of culminates similarto Grand Valley in a thesis film, right?
(17:35):
Yeah so, before my thesis, I made a shortcalled "Happy Thanksgiving", and that's
the second year film and you focus onone 10 minute short for the entire year.
And then you get three months offthe middle of the year to shoot,
you have to work on everybody'sand it's like rotating and stuff.
And then you edit it and you screenit in front of professors and you
(17:56):
get ripped apart in front of yourclass and you continue to edit it.
But my film, "Happy Thanksgiving"was shot on film, had all these
locations, it was in Grand Rapids,produced from New York and had a food
fight - like a very complicated script.
Lots of scenes, lots of characters,lots of things happening.
It was hell.
It was really the hardestshoot that I've ever had
(18:18):
- Just because the logistics?
I know you were shooting on 16, but alsojust that many locations and characters?
Yeah.
Logistics, the weather was reallybad, we happened to have just a
lot of weather related incidences.
A tree fell on one of the trailersand ripped it up, WKTV's trailer.
All these cars got stuck in mud,it was like natural disasters
(18:38):
all around, film disasters...
just everything that could gowrong did and then COVID happened
in the middle of the editingprocess and I got very depressed.
Stopped working completely.
Wasn't happy with how themovie was coming along.
I was like, "Again, I'm a failure," andso I stopped and I was like, "I'm done.
I'm putting this away.
I'm going to go travel, I don't knowif I'll come back to filmmaking."
(19:01):
Wow.
I did, it was like, me andmy partner drove around the
country and traveled around.
I went to like someactivist protest camps.
Just got out and didn'tthink about movies at all.
And then, I was like, "You knowwhat, so many people worked so hard
on this that I have to finish this.
I have to finish it at leastfor the actors and the crew."
So I did and was received reallywell by my class and by the NYU
(19:24):
community, so I was like, "Okay.
I need to do this again.
I need to do something."
And so for my thesis - thistime, I'm going to learn from my
mistakes, I'm going to make onewith two characters and that it.
and just really test how am Igoing to direct two people in one
location and keep it interesting.
So that was the idea of my thesis.
(19:44):
And that was The Beguiling, right?
Yeah.
So, you make "The Beguiling" and I knowthis is - as far as my understanding
of the Shane McSauby story - wherethings really start to happen as far
as industry attention and maybe evencaught you off guard with how quickly
this one took off and got well received.
What is that editing process likeas you're putting it together, cause
(20:05):
that is like the worst feeling whenyou're editing something and you're
just not seeing the magic, thatwas there on the page and on set.
So is "The Beguiling" like more of aconfidence builder as you're filming it
and as you're editing it and then whatdo you do with it once you finish it?
To get the attention?
Yeah.
So, making it was a huge confidencebooster because it was honestly one
of the best sets I've ever had . Wereally prepped for it, we shot it in my
(20:27):
apartment back in Brooklyn and it justcame along so nicely, we had such a good
crew and it was really such a lovely time.
And then editing it, yeah, is alwaysa journey and I brought out an editor
this time instead of doing it myself.
I built it to a certain point,passed it off to an editor, and
then we really worked together todo it and it took a long time to
get to a place that I was happy.
(20:48):
I was aiming for a TIFF deadline.
TIFF being the TorontoInternational Film Festival.
Yes, yes, Toronto International FilmFestival . Which is, you know, big
and I was being very ambitious, I think.
Yeah, that's a top, fivefilm festival in the world,
Yeah.
I was like, "I'm really happy withthis, I think it's got potential."
So I submitted a rough cut- temporary score, temporary, color.
(21:11):
I got the notification that I wasaccepted and going to be screening and
then I thought it was a mistake, signedthe paperwork as quick as I could, you
know, and was like, okay, contractuallyobligated to allow me to continue on
but yeah so, screen at TIFF - We hireda publicist that my partner knew - my
partner also produced it - so wehad a plan going into TIFF because
I've heard of people getting into bigfestivals and it goes nowhere, so this
(21:34):
is a once in a lifetime opportunity,I want to get the most out of it, I
had meetings a lot while I was there,and one of those meetings was with a
management company, Entertainment 360.
We met a number of times just overthe phone and that continued after
TIFF, we decided to work together.
And during this time, you had been hiredas an Adjunct Professor in the winter
(21:55):
of 24 and then this semester - we arein the fall of 24 - you were brought
on as a Visiting Professor, so howhave you found managing your teaching
load while also trying to be relevantin the industry and do your own thing?
Are you able to find that balance and isit like, beneficial to your filmmaking,
are they like feeding off each other?
Definitely feeding off of each other.
(22:15):
I would say the first semester that Itaught, the winter semester, was really
hard as far as finding the balance.
I really just put all of my energy intothe semester and multiple people tell me
like, it takes some time, but you'll findthe balance and you have to make that.
I find that this semester, I'mfinding more balance, but it
definitely feeds off each other.
It's really helpful and inspiringI feel like to be in these creative
(22:37):
spaces to be talking about story,to see people start to get it or
start to put it into practice.
I feed off of that, To see youngerpeople explore and want to be creative.
It really makes you want to be on top ofyour stuff as far as a filmmaker goes.
I'm a Grand Valley alum too and goingback to what you learned on "Happy
(22:57):
Thanksgiving" is something that Icontinue to learn and one of the
things that I brought to Grand Valleyright away was let me help you get
your vision on film, but also let'stry to reduce the stress levels.
I tell them in my Fiction 1class, we're going to keep it
a maximum of two locations anda maximum of four characters.
I feel like that really helps themrein in their idea and find their
(23:21):
focus and make it manageable andrealistic, on a two day shoot.
Are there any things that you learned thatyou didn't get at Grand Valley, you didn't
have someone say, "Hey Shane, keep thelocations to one or two and the characters
to two or three to make this manageable."
Is there anything that you learned sinceyour time at Grand Valley that you're now
bringing to your students in your classes?
Keeping things simple.
(23:42):
Really just trying to bring stuffdown and really focus in on a moment.
Yeah, I think it's just natural towant to go big when you're young this
is usually what you're watching atthat stage, it's like big grand things
and one of the things for writingspecifically, is don't focus on plot.
You have the plot, but once youget in there it's like, we
watch movies for characters.
NYU is a very character-driven,storytelling place.
(24:04):
That's what sticks out to us, islike, what is the character doing?
If you focus too much on the plot andthe theme, it's really easy to sort
of get lost and confused in the plotand in the themes so really focus on
just what your character's doing, givethem an objective, and figure out what
they're doing and what's preventingthem from doing that, and then how
do they feel about what they're doingas well, and it'll fall in place.
(24:25):
Spending all this time developing avoice as a filmmaker, now I feel like I
need to develop my voice as a professor,what can I bring that's new and fresh?
I mean it's inherently ingrained in how Iteach because it's just my understanding,
I think it's every day and then everyweek is learning like, "Okay, this
didn't work so let's try something else,"it's a lot of play and it's a lot of fresh
stuff to play with, which is exciting.
Yeah.
(24:45):
I didn't learn the thing about avoidingplot until really late in life when I was
getting my teeth cleaned and the dentalhygienist was asking me what I do and I
got into that small talk while somebody'sgot a, pick in your mouth and she just
kept talking and she goes well, I guessthat's why we go to the movies, right?
Just to feel something."
And I kind of dismissed it for aminute, and then I was like, "Oh
my gosh, she just blew my mind!
(25:05):
If we don't feel anything,what's the point of this?"
so.
Rely on those charactersand emotions, man.
Right now you are still touringaround festivals with "The Beguiling".
I assume the next step probably isdeveloping your first feature maybe?
Like what's the goalfor the next year or two?
So I have two features that I'm developingright now and trying to get those off
(25:28):
the ground as we continue on the festivalcircuit, using those spaces to get
some excitement around these features.
And then, I'm just really tryingto work on my writing, routine
Yeah.
With our final thought here, I'msure students listening to this or
anybody listening to this aspiring tobe a filmmaker is - they always like,
what is there one piece of advice?
(25:48):
And I remember for me, it wasactually when I was at Grand Valley.
I had had a lot of classes with KimRoberts and John Philbin and I made my
thesis film - It was this music video,and it was really like slick, and looked
great, and it almost could play onMTV, and I was really excited about it.
And Kim Roberts was a big supporter ofme, like I was this weird, experimental,
(26:09):
art house kind of guy and I showedher that thesis feeling so excited.
All she said was, "It's great,just doesn't feel like you".
And I was like, whoa, you know, forabout half an hour, I was like, "Whatever
Kim, you don't know nothing, man!"
And then I was like, man, she is soright and it's like the one thing
daily I remind myself, " Yeah,this is good, but is this me?"
(26:30):
That is so crucial to me as a filmmakerand a professor,like somebody else
teaches it this way, but this is me.
What can you leave our listeners with theone thing that stuck with you or hopefully
will stick with future filmmakers?
I have two things, one is that - Thisis a journey and that filmmaking
is a marathon, not a sprint.
There's not even necessarily an end point.
(26:52):
Know that this is a really longprocess and it takes people a really
long time to get off the ground.
When you're in your twenties, that'swhen you're figuring out who you are.
And so, the way you do that is toexplore life, focus on living, which is
corny , but true, you know, and then asyou're exploring living, explore filming.
Be experimental, takerisks, make mistakes.
(27:14):
That's the only way thatyou'll find your voice.
I feel like I didn't find mine untilrecently in my 30s where I was like, I
feel confident in who I am as a person?
But you're always still searching.
I think when you accept the factthat there's no sort of end point
in life - there's one I guess, butthere's no point at which you just get
(27:35):
it and everything falls into place.
Yeah.
And once you understand that everybody'sjust trying to figure it out and you
can apply that to filmmaking, or whateverit is that you're passionate about and
that you're doing, it frees you fromyour expectations and you can just
be in the process of doing and making
. It takes time to get there but as you keep that in mind, keep making and
keep exploring and messing up and don'ttake failure and rejections to heart.
(28:00):
You know, It's all part of the process.
Yeah, I'm with you.
It took me about 15 years, I didn'tfind my voice till I was about 32.
And it just took 15 years of makingand failing and little successes
and little failures until I kindof like, found that moment.
It's a big deal, you can onlyget there by putting in your
10, 000 hours, as they say.
Yeah.
Well thanks Shane!
It was great talking to you.
It's great to have you on campus,we'll catch up in the hallways but
(28:23):
until then, track down Shane's work.
Where can we find someof this work, Shane?
Some of it is on Vimeo.
I have a website - Ishkwaazhe.com.
I think it's linked on there,otherwise - I always feel pretentious
saying this, but you can Googlemy name and my Vimeo comes up.
You totally can!
You played TIFF, man, you're famous now!
I have no comment.
(28:44):
Alright!
But thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure.
See you guys.
Thank you for joining --us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
(29:06):
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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