S4 Ep11: Community Focused Media

Join us for a conversation about community media as host Randy Strobl from Detroit Public Television talks with Kerri VandeHoff, the Executive Director of the Coalition for Community Development, Joe Zook, the Production Manager of GRTV which is part of the Grand Rapids Community Media Center, and Jazmyne Fuentes, Success Coach at GRMiFi the Grand Rapids Media & Film Incubator. 

Community Media Makers use their skills to serve and amplify the many voices of a community.  This is complex work that requires an interest in learning about people and using a creation process that authentically presents a variety of perspectives.

LINKS

• GRCMC  https://grcmc.org/
• WKTV https://www.wktv.org/
• GRMIFI https://grmifi.org/
• Kerri VanderHoff
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/kerrivanderhoff/
  • https://www.mhccd.org/projects-2
  • https://mediajustice.org/
  • "Unmediated & Reframed" more info can be found here https://www.mhccd.org/projects-2 and here https://www.mhccd.org/rome-julissa
• Jazmyne Fuentes https://www.linkedin.com/in/jazmyne-fuentes/
• Joe Zook  https://www.linkedin.com/in/josefzook/
• Randy Strobl https://www.linkedin.com/in/randy-strobl-40223895/

To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:

• The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
• The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
• Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
• GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni

Episode Transcript

Welcome to Alumni Live (00:02):
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Welcome back to another episodeof Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Today, we're talking allabout community media.
We've got some greatrepresentatives here.
Kerri VanderHoff is here an IndependentConsultant and Executive Director of

(00:24):
the Coalition for Community Development.
Hi, Kerri.
Hi, Randy, how are you?
Hey, doing pretty good.
We also got Joe Zook, Production Managerat GRTV from the Community Media Center.
Hey Joe.
Hey, Randy, thanks for having me.
And we've got Jasmine Fuentes from theGR Media and Film Incubator or GR Mifi.
Hey Jasmine.
Hi, nice to be here.
So to the group, what isthe term community media?

(00:48):
What does that mean to each of you?
Well, I see it as a time forpeople to take back the airwaves.
And that comes from back when we onlyhad airwaves before the internet.
But that's where I was first introducedto community media was in Boston through
the community access TV station there.
And the way that they described itwas that cable channels uh, got to

(01:10):
have all those channels and where'sour channels, where we get to speak
and decide what is being said.
And now there's lots of different forms,but that's what it's still about is
getting to shape our own narrativesand not having only corporations be in
charge of what goes out to the people.
Yeah.
Access is fundamental to community media.

(01:32):
I mean, that's reallythe community component.
It's democratic.
When we think about that it's hyperlocal and it's accessible tools.
It's a platform for free expression.
Jasmine said, it's unbound by thosecorporate interests and algorithms.
And so it's all about access.
It's the tools, it's the community,it's the platform, it's the

(01:53):
ability to build and developand grow community using media.
Hyperlocal is one of the things Ithink of as well and accessibility.
It's the ability, especiallyfor marginalized voices, that,
don't quite get amplified enough.
And it's a chance to explore nuances instorytelling because you don't have to
necessarily make it for a larger audienceand just hit the highlights, right?

(02:18):
You can dig deep into the humanity ofthe stories and really reveal these
sort of local and diverse differencesand Commonalities as well, so I
really appreciate that part of it.
So as Executive Director of theCoalition for Community Development,
I do other projects as well as anIndependent Consultant, but my main
work is as the Executive Director.
It really is about working with residents.

(02:40):
I live out in Muskegon, so MuskegonHeights is our base of operations.
And it really is about understanding froma resident led perspective, the needs, the
strengths, the stories of the community,and sharing those in order to create sort
of a cohesive community action, advocacy.
And are people bringing you stories orhow do you find these community stories

(03:03):
that you're putting on the airwaves?
So mostly it's in the work thatwe do, with different events that
are happening community gardens,beautification, libraries, we
work a lot with, and sometimescollaborating with bigger organizations
like the local health system.
So it's in the work that we're alreadydoing and addressing sort of issues,
building off strengths of the community,and then storytelling is a way to

(03:25):
really move those projects forward ina way that is, more relatable, I think,
than handing over a sheet of writtenword to be able to hear from people
in their own voice, the residentstelling their own stories is very
powerful to move those projects ahead.
That is very special.
Jasmine , you want to tell us alittle bit about GR MiFi, the good
work that you're doing out there?
Well, we started with the productionof a documentary about the black freedom

(03:49):
struggle in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
It's based on a book called A CityWithin a City by Todd Robinson.
And so we knew that we wanted this storyto be told by people who have lived
it rather than other people comingfrom outside and telling the story.
, That meant not just the verbalnarration of the stories, but also
even who's carrying the cameras,who's holding the microphones.

(04:12):
That was a challenge to find enoughpeople locally with the high level of
cinema skills that we were looking for.
And so we wanted to build an incubatorto help move along the skills of
people who were amateurs in it locally.
And so that's what we've been doingis, helping people to hone their
skills, figure out exactly where theywant to go with them, and, eventually

(04:35):
get people into full time work.
Usually in the media world, or inthe video production world, that a
lot of times means freelance work.
We are very happy to have justcounted our sixth member who has
quit her boring daytime job and gonefull time into media production.
And so the goal is that as all of ourcreators, we call them the skills to be

(05:01):
able to convey their own stories and thestories of others they'll start collecting
stories from around them and helpingeveryone build their skills in putting out
the narrative that they want to put out.
That is awesome.
What are some of thosenarratives, some of those topics
that you're seeing pick up?
Is it different than you're seeingin national or corporate media?

(05:21):
Well, right now we're focused oncollecting the stories that are
in the book, or that go alongwith the stories of the book.
And so that's kind ofwhat we're focusing on.
But as people get trained and startfinding more stories of their own, some
of the things that we're seeing alreadyis that they're uplifting candidates for
political office, for the smaller offices.

(05:43):
The candidates get to decide howthey're going to tell their story.
And we have some small businessowners who want to talk about
how they came to start up theirbusiness and why it matters to them.
Even filmmakers people who aremaking short films, we interview
them, thanks to the Community MediaCenter for helping us out with that.
They are our landlord andpartners in many ways.

(06:07):
we have this great podcast room and webring in creators who tell their story
about what drew them to wanting to be apart of a creative community where people
are in charge of their own stories.
That's incredible.
I just hear neighborhoods so muchthroughout of what you're talking
about, between working with Joe andGRTV and the audio listeners couldn't
hear that, but he was putting up a heartsign as you were talking about that.

(06:28):
And these grassroots stories thatare being told that is so cool.
Joe Zook tell us a little bitabout what you're doing at GRTV.
GRTV and the Community MediaCenter is multifaceted, right?
So GRTV is a service ofthe Community Media Center.
The Community Media Center touches onvarious corners of this media landscape.

(06:50):
We have GRTV.
We also have WYCE, which is listenersupported and volunteer run radio.
We have the Wealthy Theater.
Local listeners will be familiarwith the Wealthy Theater.
And we also have the Rapidian,which is citizen journalism.
That's our e newspaper.
Community Media Center as a wholeis helping steward and support

(07:13):
various forms of community media.
My purview is mostlywith GRTV specifically.
We are the public accesschannel here in Grand Rapids.
And what I do with GRTV, specifically,I'm the Production Manager.
And what that means for us is thatmost of the work I'm doing, its

(07:33):
multi pronged, as all of our work is.
But I do our for hire video services.
I produce our grant funded documentaryprojects, if and when we have those.
And we're also developing amedia preservation wing here.
Media preservation and archiving,especially of outmoded media,
analog video, this sort of thing.

(07:56):
This is an important componentof community storytelling.
The through line is immensely important.
Getting new stories outis equally important.
But we also don't want to lose thosehistories from past generations.
The tapes that still exists that haven'tbeen digitized, they don't last forever.
They're in states of decay.

(08:17):
And so it's important to save that media.
So that is, a new projectthat we're working on here.
And then our production services is reallyalmost exclusively with other nonprofits.
Community partners andalso local government.
But that is producing media and tellingstories for our community partners.

(08:37):
Community media is oftentimes individualstories, but we are all this community
together, and we have a ton of reallyimportant and meaningful, non profit
organizations here in West Michigan.
And so we partner with a lot of themto help them get their messages out.
So it's crazy to me that at thispoint in 2024 with the way the media

(08:57):
landscape looks, a lot of it's soglobal, what is the history of like
a community media station like GRTV?
Like, how did you get carved into thelandscape and, it sounds like you're
doing an incredible job with grantfunding and, for hire and surviving
today, but how did this even start?
Yeah, that's a great question.
and I'll say we, we're doing our best.
Um, the origins of publicaccess and cable access.

(09:21):
It originates from the cablecompanies, paying franchise fees to
city governments and municipalities.
It's for right of way, for, use ofcommunity and municipal resources,
for access to lines underground torun cable, these sorts of things.
And some of those franchise feesthen get passed on to public

(09:46):
access and cable access.
This is , a federal law, from the lateseventies or early eighties, it was a
carve out that said it's important ifwe're going to have cable television, if
we're going to have all these channelsthat are national television that don't
necessarily originate in the community.
It's important to us as a society.
We want to still make sure thatthere is a channel for local voices.

(10:09):
So in some ways we're a holdout froman era that some think is bygone, but I
think that's actually a misconception.
It's true that fewer peoplethese days have cable television,
as people have cut the cord.
But community media is alive andthriving on the internet, on your
Roku or on YouTube on demand orstreaming live on our website.

(10:35):
It's a lot less about the specificplatform and it really is more
about the community access.
I just wanted to add that we got togive props to the activists who made
this happen because I'm sure thegovernment didn't say, you know what?
This wouldn't really be fair.
Let's make sure the people have a voice.
So whoever was the first station to doit was probably the ones who said, you

(11:00):
know, we demand this and we know how itwould look and we're going to get started.
And I know that Boston, they were oneof the first in the seventies, but
I'm not sure that they were the first,but I heard the war stories when I
was there that we were among the firstand it was a big battle and a lot of
cities said we want four channels.

(11:21):
We don't just want one channel.
We want one for the government,our local government to use.
We want one for our colleges to use,one for K-12, and one for anybody.
And the one for anybody wouldbe like Community Media Center.
So that we've got equipment and peoplecan learn how to use the equipment
that regular TV channels have.

(11:43):
And we want it just as good.
And so they set that up and Grand Rapidsis the most, widespread community access
station I've ever heard of where there'sthe five threads that Joe mentioned
I haven't found that anywhere else,but I'm sure there are a couple places
like that, but it's among the top.
It's incredible.

(12:03):
It certainly enriched my life somuch between Wealthy Theater and, all
the good, shows I've seen there and,little film festivals and to like,
WYCE with incredible music that isput out there in the performances and
it's just everything y'all are doing.
And also like the CommunityMedia Center has been just such
a resource for training people.
So we'll definitely talk somemore about all that, But Kerri I'm
hearing just the level of importance.

(12:24):
This is that it'sprotected by federal law.
This community media in your experience,has it lived up to that level of impact?
Tell us some stories aboutthings that you've seen and
stories that you've seen created.
For me, it has, for us, it has,and I hope that it's never in
danger of being taken away.
If it is, somebody rattle a cage becausewe need to make sure that it remains.

(12:48):
I hope it's not a hidden gemto a lot of people either.
the first time you walk into GRTV or,some of the others that are in the
area or across the nation, you'resurprised at the equipment there, at
the offering of take this class andthen you can check out this top of the
line equipment and use it on your ownproject I wonder if maybe that education

(13:11):
to the community could be stronger.
So I'm glad we're doing this podcastand talking about a little bit more
because it really is a great resource.
Making media is a part of what we do,it's not everything, so we don't have
all of the equipment in, you know, aproduction room somewhere, and just having
that ability to be able to reach outand beef up our ability for production
value and to have people who can helpguide us through it is very important.

(13:33):
And some of the other non profits thatI have worked at, have used services
like website building and things.
There's a lot of differentservices, not just for filmmaking
alumni or video producing andthings like that podcasts, right?
So the services, Joe talked abouta few of them and I think you could
really just spend a day there andexplore find out more about it.
Yeah.
And partnerships are so importantand it's not just TV stations, right?

(13:55):
Kerri, I know that you've worked with thelibraries out there in Muskegon right?
We've worked with the libraries.
We've worked with the local health system,collaborating with different cross sector
partners is a wonderful thing, right?
Because you get a lot ofdifferent perspective.
So with the libraries we've shownfilms, but also had panel discussions.
People come in from around theworld, plus local, and record that,

(14:18):
talk about some of the issues.
I think the last one was about theremake of The Little Mermaid.
One project that we are doing withGVSU, actually, because we realize data
justice is as important as media justice.
I'm curious what is the mission of theCoalition for Community Development?
I'm not familiar with it.
The mission is really to empower oneanother and to support a thriving

(14:42):
community in Muskegon Heights.
It's as simple as that, becausewhat we believe is as an
organization, we don't lead.
We, first of all, our board ismajority Muskegon Heights residents.
So it's not that, we're not alreadyembedded in the community as we are.
We work very closely with the NeighborhoodAssociations but we're also the, we
call it the CBO, the Community BasedOrganization, that can usually be the

(15:04):
connector between residents and some ofthat really grassroots, trust, community
driven projects and working with largerorganizations that are really needed
as fiduciaries or because of the waythat they might be able to move some of
these desires forward with governmentand funding and things like that.
So we work very much as thatorganization that ensures the resident

(15:28):
voice is heard and stays heard.
It's really important, that thepace can be slower, the pace is not
so we can move with the speed oftrust as we say out here, right?
And we can move to make surethat everybody's walking
along with the project.
Sometimes when you do collaborate withlarger organizations as is necessary,
they understand it and then they'vegot the resources to be able to move.

(15:50):
And take it away.
And the important thing is to not dothat, to slow down, be present, and
the residents lead the project andyou can learn a lot and it can really
reveal things when you just slowdown and make sure that everybody's
involved from the very grassroots towhatever collaborative partner of a
larger organization is moving at.
And community media understands that.

(16:11):
We're very small.
And we like it that way.
We had a retreat earlierthis year about growth.
And there's a nimbleness to being small.
So that we do need to be very resourcefuland you can be very creative when
you have to be resourceful as well.
But it's mostly private donorswho believe in what we do.
And it is foundations.

(16:32):
And sometimes when we do collaboratewith some larger organizations we tap
into federal and state funding as well.
But we were an all volunteerorganization for just over 15 years
of its existence and a part timeExecutive Director, me, only came on
board in 2018, But we're moving slowin the way we grow intentionally.
It's beautiful to be in this spacebecause I have worked at bigger

(16:54):
organizations and it has taught methe beauty of slowing down and just
listening and being present and notfeeling so checklist oriented, right?
Goal oriented, we've got to get thisdone and by this time there's a real
beauty in that, and again, I findgoing back to community media and that,
creating content from such a hyperlocal perspective really thrives in

(17:15):
being present and moving at that speed.
I'm hearing nimbleness, andI'm also hearing community led.
Are those words thatreflect your own experience.
looking at podcasting.
It reminds me about how we appliedfor a neighborhood match fund grant
from the city to train new podcasters.

(17:38):
And so we put out the word that, you know,anyone who's ever wanted to have their
own podcast, come on out, and our creatorswill teach you how to design your program,
record it, and edit it, and put it out.
And we, talk about nimble, we were justso surprised at how many people came
in and said, I wanna have a podcast.

(18:00):
And we say, great,what's it gonna be about?
And they said, well, whatever youwant to interview me about . And they
just, so many people wanted to beinterviewed, but they did not want
to think about like what they wouldwant to have a whole series about.
So it was just, it was funny.
We really had to pull things outtapeople and, they would lose interest
quickly so there were a lot of surprisesthere just always are whenever you

(18:24):
think you know what people want whichis why Kerri does what she does, right?
Because people who come up withprogramming of any kind think they
know what it is that the recipientswant, and a lot of times the recipients
don't even know what they want, andso you gotta ask a lot of questions
to help get to the bottom of that.
Joe, that idea of training.

(18:44):
I mean, I know GRTV has a robusttraining, abilities there.
Tell me a little bit aboutwhat your programs are.
Yeah, absolutely.
That is a huge component of whatGRTV and the CMC does and it's a
big component of becoming a member.
That's what's great about community media.
And this center is it'syours, it's your TV station.

(19:04):
It's your community resources.
Which I think remains very unique.
We have this model that Imagine itis almost like a library resource.
Where we have these tools and resources.
You can come in here and take classes.
You can take certification classes tobe certified on the various equipment

(19:25):
and the facilities that we have.
And then if you're a member ingood standing and you've taken a
certification class, through our educationdepartment Then you have access.
You have access to this equipmentwithout an additional cost.
And that is really important tocommunity media is that level of access.
Now, as much as we can on thispodcast, shout from the rooftops to

(19:47):
the students listening here that is,you said, free access to equipment
with training, that is incredible.
Like, I, hope every student listeningto this and, people living around
Grand Rapids here that like, youare providing just such a service.
You get out of school and there'sa big shock factor after you've
had access to that equipment room.
You've gotten familiar with theequipment that you use to create your

(20:10):
media You reserve it, you go and checkit out, and as soon as you're out
of school in the desert of the real,
Now I really want to activate, butI can't afford that six thousand
dollar camera that I'm used tohaving access to automatically.
We won't call it for free becauseschool is really expensive,
but it's baked in, right?
That is a huge resource, and I thinkfar too few new alumni realize that

(20:38):
this resource is in your community.
You are the city's equipment room, right?
Like you can go there and makea documentary, make a show like
it's such an an incredible thing.
But then a component of that, animportant component of that is when you
become a member of the Community MediaCenter, when you take the certification
classes GRTV and you use the equipment,you are also agreeing to provide

(21:05):
what you create for the community.
So that's the agreement that you make.
You check out that equipment,we get you access to that.
And then when you create that media, youthen submit your finished projects to us.
And that's going to go on GRTV.
That becomes theprogramming that is on GRTV.
And if your audience, where youwant to reach them, is on YouTube,

(21:27):
upload it to YouTube, right?
Reach your audiences where you want to.
But also, we expect that tobe part of this public access.
Your voice is ourcommunity collective voice.
So that's the social contract.
And that's why there's somuch great stuff on GRTV.
It's so much fun to watch.
So if I'm looking at the threeof you and our, little zoom Brady

(21:48):
Bunch thing I got going on here.
Every time one of you talks,I'm seeing your eyes light up.
I'm seeing y'all nod when,somebody else is talking.
And we started this conversationtalking about, the humanity that
you find in community media.
And I just want to askyou about each of that.
What puts your heart on fire for thissegment of media, this community media

(22:08):
Jasmine, you want to start off with that?
I think it is just watching peoplerecognize their power for the first
time and just to realize that .Otherswant to hear their voice and find their
stories fascinating and find theirexperiences helpful to learn about.
And, just watching people gofrom like for our program.

(22:32):
We were just laughing last night athow One of the creators was showing off
his new demo reel and when he came insix months ago, he didn't even really
know what a demo reel was And he wasasking us, you know, I really love
shooting videos And I love workingout and I find it really fun to shoot

(22:56):
videos at the gym because the lightingin there is just kind of dramatic.
And I'm just shooting myself workingout and then people are coming up and
asking me to shoot them working out.
And so I'm here to say, canI charge people for that?
And that's where he was six months ago,and he's one of the ones who just quit

(23:17):
his job and is working full time, andhe just finished his demo reel, and he's
got so much work and getting paid well.
He's paying his bills.
I just asked him last night,are you paying all your bills?
And he said, yes, I am.
So it is just really fun to watch hisexcitement grow, and just to hear as
he did work on things to have everybody, looking at his work and saying.

(23:38):
That is awesome.
I love that angle that you chose and Ican see why you like shooting at the gym.
That makes a lot of sense.
Have you tried talking to the gym?
Maybe they want videos.
What kind of videoshave you thought about?
And just to watch people come aliveis exceedingly rewarding to me.
And it's just fun to see peopleblossom and realize their

(23:59):
power and their abilities.
I relate to that so hard.
I do a lot of work with the Mosaic FilmExperience uh, in town and we'll go
into a, high school or middle schooland, put an iPad or teach them how to
use mobile apps and just the light thatcomes out of their eyes, you know, and
a lot of times too, in the beginning ofthe class people will be into themselves

(24:20):
or, like not really showing up andthen, as soon as there is that moment
where you just feel them seizing theirvoice and that's, oh, that is so cool.
What a great way to say that.
Kerri, can you tell us aboutwhat lights your heart on fire?
Jazmyne said that so eloquently.
What do you got for us?
I think that it's my evolution intomore of the grassroots non profit world.
I started out in the music businessand in marketing, worked my way up the

(24:44):
ladder there, so there was a lot ofsales videos that had, rock stars and
things in it as they came into town.
And then I moved out to L. A., workedfor a movie studio and came back and
actually went back to school to GrandValley as a non traditional student.
I think I was around 30 or somethinglike that right, to finish my degree.
The filmmaking storytelling bug wasthere, but I didn't necessarily have

(25:06):
a huge passion for a certain kind.
And I think that it was at GrandValley that I took some of the more
theory related classes Dr. Perrine inparticular, that sort of my mind just
whoa, there's so much more to thinkabout representation and, the form
and content and how powerful the useof it is to frame a message, right?

(25:29):
And so much so that I went on to getmy Master's more in the critical,
And I think coming out of that I wasstill working a lot in marketing.
I worked at the Grand RapidsArt Museum for several years
before moving out to Muskegon.
And I really decided that I wantedto continue to, understand that
representation and the powerful meaningthat is created and how so many voices

(25:51):
are not heard that much, especiallyin the nonprofits that are doing such
great work on such small budgets, right?
So there's a lot of good thingsthat are going on, but not so much.
Using this powerful medium totell their stories and to get more
volunteers and funding and whatnot.
And I think that, in particular, one ofthe things that just working and bringing

(26:12):
that sort of, filmmaking backgroundfrom Grand Valley and other areas of
my past since we are an alumni podcast.
Just want to reassure peoplethat it can be a zigzag path,
of how you proceed with it.
But working in the non profitworld for Coalition for Community
Development and going to a lot ofdifferent sort of, community sort
of representations where they'rereporting out issues in the community.

(26:33):
You know, The same old chartsand graphs are used as they're
using statistics and talking aboutespecially marginalized communities
and working for years within these.
I'm like, how is thatdata being collected?
How is it being analyzed?
How is that happening?
Because the stories coming out froma grassroots level, there's got to
be a level of trust to really getthat sort of authentic sort of data.

(26:53):
So we actually reached out to Grand Valleyto the Social Science department and
started a project where we first broughtdata collecting skills to leaders of those
small grassroots nonprofits in MuskegonHeights and Muskegon or residents who were
interested in collecting, learning howqualitative quantitative data is collected
and understanding how to collect thatbecause the closer you are to collecting

(27:18):
that data, the truer it will be, right?
And then learning how to report it out.
Now, of course, you can use this,data is power, to apply for grants.
They love that data thatproves sort of a need, right?
And the needs of the community,partnering with some of the larger
organizations advocating it to citygovernment, and here are my statistics,
so you can't get away so much fromthe charts and graphs for sure.

(27:40):
But what we wanted to do is tonot only have that data that
was collected more close to homebut turn it into a video series.
So , we received some funding to be ableto do this and themes that emerged that
the residents really wanted to unpack andtalk about because everybody says you've
got to gain trust in certain communities.

(28:01):
What is that?
it's different to a lot of people.
It's like talking about whatis equity that's different to a
business as it is to a grassrootsorganization or to a hospital, right?
Prosperity, especially generationaleconomic thriving in the community.
Health.
Mind, body and spirit culture andtradition, a lot of wonderful traditions

(28:21):
and cultural nuances to talk aboutand other lived experiences, right?
And so within that, the data thatemerged and how people talked about it,
we then armed ourself with our camerasand microphones and went out and talked
to different people about how would youlike to talk about this or express this.

(28:42):
And so we've got some whoparticipated in a, a talk show
and talked about this issue.
We have a person who is a dancer.
She's, a dance instructor, andso she's a Choreographer and she
wanted to do a dance that expressedwhat trust means or prosperity.
We actually wrote, we had a spoken wordartist who I wanted to, write a spoken

(29:04):
word version of Romeo and Juliet thatwas modern day based in Muskegon and
Muskegon Heights called Roman Julissa andwe helped put that together and they're
local actors and that was a lot of fun.
That's done with a lot of green screens.
That'll be fun to edit that but just thesedifferent ways to approach those themes.

(29:24):
People think they understand what itis and move forward really quickly
on the idea of trust, but that'ssomething that really slow down and
unpack it on that humanity, that levelof person to person and get to know.
It's amazing how you really find thatcamaraderie in these different sort
of ways that people talk about, issueslike that and you learn from each other.
In a big way from these, smallindividual stories collectively.

(29:49):
We didn't want just oneinterpretation, but several, in
this video series that we're doing.
So as you can tell, that's what'sgetting my blood going right now is
I see it and I feel it and I'mfortunate enough that I got to see that
firsthand and that was, specificallya project where I know that you put
them in the driver's seat and earnback that trust because they had a bad

(30:10):
experience with a filmmaker previously.
So there are ways that, local filmmakingcan go wrong and you really help gain that
trust back and help them tell their ownstory, for their centennial anniversary.
It was really incredible acommunity project to be a part of.
And with you as well, everybody whowas involved in that we went back and
showed raw footage to the group and,never were they left behind in any of

(30:30):
the processes that moved forward andall those stories of the people who
are now in their 80s and 90s who hadlived through the civil rights era were
it's for community by communityand you're out there doing it.
That's incredible.
Joe, what lights your heart on firelike It takes a special person to be
in here, community media, programmingGRTV, what gets your blood pumping.

(30:52):
What Kerri and Jasmine aresaying resonates, of course.
I mean, I think we have a lotof crossover in our missions
and our beliefs about this work.
Similarly, you know, I started outin my career post school, crewing,
film, TV, below the line, G andE, transpo, that sort of thing.
Shout out to John Philbin, now retired,in the Summer Film Program, that was huge.

(31:16):
That was really, I knowit exists to this day.
That's a meaningful way as a studentthat we got hands on experience and
were able to confidently translate ourskills, into the world of film production.
I did that for a few years andthen after a while, wasn't so
interested in all the heavy liftingthat came along with that work.

(31:39):
I wasn't quite getting the returns,in meaning and impact, moved over
to doing more of the work thatI'm doing nowadays, but in the
commercial and the corporate world.
I love producing andproduction management.
I'm well suited for the work, butthe work that I was doing for a
number of years, the end productwasn't particularly meaningful to me.

(32:01):
Ultimately how I end up here is,for me, it is all about community.
I admire activists and activism.
We've talked about that a littlebit already, but I'm rarely
the one on the picket line.
Or making public comment at acity council meeting or something.

(32:22):
I, I like to tell stories.
I like to connect with people.
I really like to listen and learn.
I think the greatest impact that Ican have is at the community level.
My direct impact I think is onother people, other individuals.
I think we all learn from each other.
We all influence one another.
I'm all about being a part of activesupport systems and community media right

(32:47):
now, I think is both more important.
At least as important, but arguablymore important than ever, it's also more
fragile than ever, I think it's fragilebecause of this evolving landscape
of, telecom and cable companies, thefranchise fees, attrition of viewers

(33:07):
from cable to streaming and also just ingeneral community resources, schools and
libraries and public media, these sortsof very important, crucial resources being
defunded increasingly, being attacked.
I think the importance is becausemedia literacy and access to accurate

(33:28):
information is as important as it'sever been and in many ways it's more
fraught than it's been in a long time.
To me, the work that I'm able todo, the impact that I can make, is
here, in communities, at a grassrootscommunity, individual level.
That's where I feel like I'm most useful.

(33:51):
I think that is commendable.
That's incredible.
We're taking a short breakto tell you about the Chuck
Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
the upper level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU, who are working
on creative projects that support thenonprofit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome, May the 2020 recipientof that fellowship describes the

(34:14):
benefits of the support he received.
When going through this fellowship,there are three separate parts
of yourself that I think get toexperience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work witha client on your own independently,
out in the world, away from theclassroom, like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone

(34:37):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third onewould be as a citizen.
You know, you're not making video foran entertainment value or for some
kind of commercial purpose, it's fora non-profit it's for a direct benefit
in your community and being a citizenof that community, understanding how

(34:58):
you can directly impact and improve it,is a really valuable experience that
I think the fellowship teaches you tobe as, as a student, as a filmmaker
and as a citizen, all three of thosethings are directly a part of this
process that you get to learn and askyourself, how do I want to be seen?
And how do I want to actas these three roles?
For more information and to donateto the scholarship, visit the link in

(35:20):
the description now back to the show.
So Jazmyne, we heard a littlebit about Kerri's, she said she
had a zigzagging career path.
We just heard about a career path thatkind of stretched from Grand Valley
through film to community media from Joe.
What was your career path?
How did you end up where you are now?
Well, I went to college in Santa Barbara,and when I was done there, I wanted to

(35:44):
move to Boston because of having had alot of fun experiences there, so I just
got in my car and drove out there andfound a place to live and started temping
at all different kinds of places just tohave some income and to explore the city.
I found that to be a really fun way to getto know a new city is just plop yourself

(36:05):
into an office at different addresses allover the city for a few days each time.
I'll, I'll never forget one of theplaces I landed had I was sitting
there at my desk doing my thing.
And all of a sudden the entire floorof probably a hundred people vanished.
And I thought, have I gone deaf?
Like, was there a fire alarm?

(36:25):
And I didn't hear it.
Like, what just happened?
and there was one final personheading out to the elevator.
I said what is happening and he saidoh, it's lunch break And I'm like
people are this detached from theirwork that they can just drop, everyone
can just drop what they're doing.
I always have to wrap up whatevermy task is and I just thought okay,

(36:47):
this tells me something about thekind of work I don't want to have.
Like, I don't want to live like that.
I was a communication major, and mydream was to work at the PBS station.
And they just kept saying, you'rebrand new, like you just graduated,
you can't start at a top level station.

(37:07):
Having just graduated from college,go to a small town come back.
And so I ended up letting one of mytemp jobs turn into a public, it was a
publishing job, educational publishing.
And I kind of liked that.
And so I did that for a couple ofyears but I was still looking at
those jobs with WGBH and seeing ifthere's anything I could possibly do.

(37:30):
And eventually an educationalpublishing job came up there.
And before I knew it, I wasworking on a program called Zoom.
And anyway, so I was working forWGBH for a couple years, and then
I ended up moving to Grand Rapids.
And I was looking around for thingsthat were going on here, and I found

(37:50):
that Calvin College had a TV show.
And I really wanted to have my owninterview show after having watched
a lot of what was going on at GBH.
Interview show was my favorite.
So I, found that, It was produced bystudents, and so they kept on turning over
who was in charge of this TV show, andit just didn't have any consistency, and

(38:14):
the guy who was, in charge of it, had putall of these, meeting notes out on the
internet because the internet was stillkind of new and so he was like, just let
me put stuff on the internet because I'msupposed to be in charge of the website.
So let me see what papersare around that I can put on.
And it just happened to be allthese notes about that show

(38:34):
because that was in his desk.
So I ended up reading all thisand then contacting him when I
found out I was moving to GrandRapids because of my husband's job.
I said, Hey, it sounds like you guyscould really use an adult to be in
charge of this thing and just keep itconsistent and do this and this and this.
And he's like, how do you know all this?
This is amazing.

(38:55):
He forgot he had put all this on thewebsite So yeah, I was able to take over
the TV show and I just kept on workingon it and getting it better and better
until I was ready to approach WGVU andask them if they would start airing it.
And they did.
So it was on Community Accesswhen I arrived, but, I got WGVU

(39:18):
to take it on and then eventually.
I got it to the point where I said, I feellike we're ready to offer this nationally.
What do you think?
And they said, all right,let's give it a try.
And it worked and 60 stationsacross the country picked it up.
And so that was really fun.
It was called Inner Compass andit was a talk show about, ethical,

(39:39):
social justice, religious issues.
So I did that for about 15 years.
And then, was looking for something elseand found that book by Todd Robinson
and just thought that was a lot ofstuff to unpack and I wanted more
people to be able to benefit from that.
Wow.
I just, I hear so much in allthree of your stories that

(39:59):
I think will help students.
And, it's never a straight shot, right?
You never call your shotand you're there, right?
you had to do so much toget to that place at WGBH.
Yeah, I mean, the only thingthat we can be sure of with our
career path is that it's not goingto go where we want it to go.
That's the only place that wecan be sure it's not going to
go is where we wanted it to go.
I wanted to say that it'sup to us sometimes to bring

(40:22):
this skill set and passion.
If they had hired a different ExecutiveDirector than me five years ago, I don't
know that, storytelling via, you know,a visual medium would have been so much
a part of the job and uh, you know, theways that we're getting things done.
Like the education kit we createdfor the local, County Museum, which

(40:44):
had very little information about asignificant population here until we
approached them and created this content.
So to the students who, want to dothis, don't think that's a singular
path or even a job that you thinkis a job that traditionally has a
visual medium or, storytelling aspect.
Whatever job or place, or people, ormission, that's attracting you, how can

(41:10):
you bring your skills to enhance that job?
I think another way to say it, Kerri,is just that you can create the
job that you wish you could have.
You know, you don't have to say,well, there isn't a job that does
all these things that I want.
So then the question becomes, howcan you get paid for doing that?

(41:30):
And that's a little more challenging.
but I think, you know, what I'mlearning is to, I need to find the
people who have the same passion andthen they would want to support that.
It's just that community component.
this is so true.
I'm talking about creatingthose opportunities, right?
Knowing what you're interested in or whatyou're wanting to pursue, finding those

(41:51):
opportunities, making it for yourself.
It's building that community, right?
And Jazmyne just said, findingthose like minded people are the
people who also believe in whatyou're trying to accomplish, right?
We do this through the communitycomponent of all of this, I know that
we're coming at this from a media lens,but media is, secondary to community.

(42:13):
And media is one way that we'retalking about building community.
Hmm.
it's finding your community.
It's knowing those other likeminded people or, the diversity
of thought that really helpsus, explore these opportunities.
Totally.
I think I heard in your story tooJoe, sometimes you have to ask
yourself, Am I enjoying what I'm doing?
And it sounds like when you're liftingthat heavy equipment, at some point, you

(42:35):
said, I'm really not there's not impact inthis you were looking for something more.
And that's something thatI have had to ask myself.
And I think, especially 2020pandemic shutdown, like all that,
like really, had me asking myself,am I enjoying what I'm doing?
And some parts it was yes.
And in some parts it was no.
And what I realized is I thoughtI was trying to give myself
steps to get somewhere else.

(42:57):
And then I was like, wait a minute, I'menjoying what I'm doing here, like this
community media making shows with Kerriand, working with WGVU, the PBS station
and, things like that, telling, Michiganstories, Grand Rapids stories, and now
I'm at, Detroit PBS, finding ways to say,I love what I'm doing is so important.
That's really cool thatyou all found that.
Sticking in this idea of careerand talking to, some of the college

(43:19):
students who might be listening,what are some lessons, uh, that you
learned while you were in collegethat you're using still today?
Whether that be at Grand Valley forKerri and Joe or, out west, for Jazmyne.
I know that I really learnedhow important a team is.
And how you really, rely on theirpassion and expertise in what they're
doing so you can focus on what you'redoing so that ultimately whatever

(43:44):
project you're on has all of that.
And then I always want towork with passionate people.
I mean, I was laughing when, Iheard the story about the lunch
break because I don't want towork with those people either.
I want to work with people who arepassionate about what they're doing.
And when you are in school,and you're learning the skills.
Certainly, you're learning the practicalaspects to definitely take those
classes to understand the impacts.

(44:06):
So that you're not repeating ormaking really pedantic films either.
But I think that the beauty of being inschool is that network you're creating
of those passionate people you get out ofthere into the real world or whatever as
Joe was saying is people aren't going totalk to you for hours about film, But wow,
can you really have those conversationsand develop those and those are going
to be your friends and contacts whereverthey go around the world keep in touch,

(44:30):
because you've really shared somethingspecial with a group of passionate people
you might not find quite that way again.
But I would say search for it, if it'snot quite in that sort of large capacity.
For instance, when I did move out toLA,, I think one of the mistakes that
I made is that I did work for a bigmovie studio, but it was more in the
get the coffee kind of thing, right?

(44:50):
So your creativity and all of that,I think the mistake I made is I
didn't find a smaller communitycreative that you could share those
ideas, talk those things out, andthe largeness of it just drained me.
And then I realized I was a Midwesterngirl at heart, so that was important too.
But, seek that community.
We need each other and look at, to go,even right here where we talk, go here

(45:11):
and they've got equipment for you.
Go over here and they mighthave a connection to such and
such or information about that.
That community in college, enjoyit, grow from it, and seek out,
community as well after you leave.
Sure.
And I think the Alumni Association too,like we're working really hard to make
sure that kind of community is stillout there for people when they graduate.

(45:33):
Joe, biggest lesson being at Grand Valley.
what's helping you out thereprogramming for GRTV today?
I think being involved with a lot ofstuff just to piggyback off of what
Kerri was just saying, like that thereare so many opportunities, especially
at a larger school like Grand Valley.
And it's just, there's so much greatstuff going on, get involved with stuff,

(45:54):
do clubs, do stuff, you don't know whereyou're going to meet your community.
I'm fortunate that I still,maintain, a very tight knit, and
meaningful community of fellow filmand video alum, from my era there.
But I have just as many connections,from people who I met in completely

(46:15):
different areas of study because,I was interested in being involved
in, the Kung Fu club or whatever.
Were you really in the Kung Fu
For a minute I was, but I trieda whole bunch of different stuff.
But also I think yeah, in general,if you're a film and video student
uh, if you're interested inproduction, at least for me, the
Summer Film Program was crucial.

(46:38):
I don't know that I would be whereI am now if I hadn't gotten the
hands on confidence that I did.
You learn a lot in the classroom,you get to do a lot of fun things.
But for me personally, I know that theSummer, Film really made the difference.
It gave me the confidence to then goand apply for a job as a grip on a film.

(46:59):
Because I knew that I could do it.
Yeah, and I know to like, so after Ihad done the Summer Film like I started
to feel like as I was doing you knowcrewing for other things I was like
I've already done a big show you likeit gets those like first time jitters
out like I know how the set works Iknow like what the code is if somebody
has to go to the bathroom on the walkietalkies all of a sudden you just know
all that it like really smooths outthose jitters, I agree with that 100%.

(47:22):
Thinking back to college, Jazmyne whatwere some big lessons that are still
fueling you, pushing you forward today?
Well, I think mine wasmore inward focused.
I think some of the main things Ilearned at Westmont College, shout out
to Westmont College, was the appreciationfor art and beauty and rhetoric.

(47:44):
I had a Rhetoric Professor, and I wouldhave been a rhetoric major if there was
one, but it was just called communication,but he was all about rhetoric.
And just the beauty in the art oflanguage, and choosing your words
carefully because everyone counts, andpaying attention to the words that other
people are using, and unpacking them.

(48:04):
I had some art classes where youjust had to sit and look at a paper
clip for a half an hour and try andjust stare at it and have to think
about all that you were seeing.
Just until you are past boredom,about bored to tears, and
just have to write about it.
what are you seeing whenyou see this paperclip?
I remember that I never, I haven'tthought about this at all, but it's a

(48:28):
question that's making these things popup for me of just slowing down and paying
attention to what is around you and whatpeople are saying and how they're saying
it and how you are going to talk aboutmatters that are important to you and
how you're going to, utilize your ownpower by giving it words because words

(48:50):
have so much power in the way we talkabout ourselves, the way we talk about
our community, way we talk about ourstory whether it's going to be a victim
narrative or an overcoming narrative.
That's playing out right now inthe work that we're doing because
Todd Robinson was very focusedon avoiding the victim narrative.
And it is so often used that, especiallywith marginalized people, I mean, even the

(49:15):
term marginalized people, you know, that'sa, that's a victim word right there.
Paying close attention and tryingto find better words for things
because well, one of our heroes inthe book says that those who have
the power to define have the power todetermine, and that's how it starts.
So a connection that I hear betweenall three of you is you've all talked

(49:38):
about the importance of classes orexperiences that weren't strictly film,
or strictly storytelling, whether it'sthe Kung Fu Club or, taking rhetoric
classes I think that is something veryand I think Grand Valley does that
really well requiring gen eds or themesgetting people out of their comfort zones
mixing up with other scholars I thinkthat's really important and special.

(49:59):
These ideas that Jazmyne's broughtup about, how to tell an impactful
story and work with people who, aretrusting you with their stories.
What are some other tips, Kerri thatyou might have, along those lines of
how to talk with somebody who might be,telling a traumatic event on film or
opening up to themselves and trusting you.
I'm sure there are students listeningto this who, can't wait to go out

(50:21):
and, make the world better with theircameras but what are some cautions to be
worried about or to watch yourself for.
Framing is everything, right?
So it's how is the story framed?
I think that it's important tonot just ask questions as Jazmyne
says, from a victim framing.
Tell me about, the crime in yourneighborhood, or how's that?

(50:43):
That's already framing it, right?
if you ask someone what do youlove about your neighborhood?
You will hear wonderful stories about,I love my neighborhood, everybody from,
the mayor walks by, the town drunk, andeverybody knows who they are, make sure
they get home, okay, and I would hateto live in one of those communities
where, People drive home, the garagedoor goes up, they drive in, it closes,

(51:05):
you never see them again, right?
Because I think that youwill allow the person to tell
the story they want to tell.
And I think it is, if you havesome history of, studying different
techniques and things like that.
You might hear if maybe someone isnervous or moving down a path.
You might not just run with that so much.
Yeah, I like what you said about thewhole person right like seeing them as

(51:28):
a human as a storyteller, not just asa, part of your show or you know your
ticket to the next story you know likeit's very important to really see the
person in front of you I agree with that.
Joe as a programmer, how do youdeal with tough content, are people
bringing stories that you have toreally consider to put on the air.
So I will say that's not my purview, here.

(51:50):
What I'm doing here is this othercomponent where it's more like
reactive, working with organizations,to produce content for them.
So I'll be working witha nonprofit organization.
They have a message, theyhave a mission, right?
so my purview here primarilyis to help produce media.
There's, there is a distinctionto be made, which is GRTV as an

(52:12):
entity, we don't have an editorialstake in what's going on the air.
And that's actuallyreally important, right?
When you are a member of the community,You come in, you use the resources, you
produce television, you submit it, youfill out a cablecast form that says, to
the extent that it, is legal for me toair and broadcast this on television,

(52:35):
uh, you take responsibility, but we'renot making any editorial decisions.
So in fact, there are nodifficult decisions to make.
This is truly the community's platform.
It's community television.
So maybe another way to phrase that isyou're telling stories of nonprofits.
I'm sure these nonprofits are doing,incredible and sometimes difficult work.
How do you think about workingand telling those success stories

(52:58):
of the nonprofits in the area.
It's a lot of fun because it's notvery often, just out of the box.
Everything starts with a conversation.
I don't do a lot of prospecting, I'mhere to support the organizations who
need us and who, utilize our resources.
It really depends.
We have a lot of conversations aboutyou've got a little bit of a budget,

(53:19):
you know, that media is important.
Sometimes those conversationsare, we want this sort of impact.
We want to do this with this video.
We know exactly how we want to deliverthis and who are our audience is.
But just as often, it's a conversationof we've never really had a
budget to produce media before,but we know what's important.

(53:40):
We know that we're not reaching thecommunity that we're here to serve.
We know that we have these resourcesof our own, and we know that there
are members of the community who couldbenefit from what we have to offer, but.
We know that they don't know about it.
We get to help fill thatgap or bridge that gap.
So it's always a conversation, itmight be, we don't know how to do this.

(54:03):
What do you think that we should do?
So we talk about the tools andthe resources that we have, we
talk about do you already have anaudience or impact on social media?
Should we make a video for social media?
Should we do a live stream, to helpyou reach members of the community, are
you doing a forum that you're invitingpeople to, to join in person, but you

(54:26):
also want to reach people, who aren'tlikely to come or able to come in person.
So everything is a conversation.
Yeah, expanding that accessI hear even in that answer.
So as we're getting close to wrappingup here I've got, one last big
question, so we're recording this,it's October 24th 2024, where, just
about a week or so away from a hugenational election that's razor thin.

(54:50):
We have no idea at this point in historywhat's going to happen next, right?
Both sides are, stressed outabout what the future could hold.
But as we're here talking about communitymedia, I'm hearing just a lot of hope
and a lot of action that's happening.
You are three people who are out theremaking incredible change and making
people in your community's lives better.
As we're thinking about what peoplecan do in their communities what is

(55:13):
it about what you're doing that givesyou hope for the future that, helps
you feel like there's action andhope talk about this idea of hope.
Yeah.
Good question, Randy.
I returned to, Grand Rapids after,many years living in New York.
I built my career in the city, anda big part of returning to Grand

(55:34):
Rapids for me was, something thatI could never really get a hold on.
to the extent that it's importantto me a city like New York was a
really cohesive sense of community.
You can be in the proverbial center ofthe universe, in New York City, and have

(55:54):
a community of your own, but still feel.
Isolated, I wanted to come backto a city like Grand Rapids where
building a community feels a littlemore holistic to me and where, your
contributions, really can make meaningfulcontributions at a community level.
In that regard, concerning ourselves withnational elections and global politics.

(56:17):
will have an impact on all ofus, but no matter what the future
holds for any of us, we will allperpetually be members of communities.
I think that immediate impact,the impact that we can make
on our direct community scale.
To me, that's what's most important.
No matter what happens in elections,we're still neighbors with each other.

(56:40):
that's where I feel myimpact is most resonant.
So I just try to focus on that.
That is beautiful.
Neighbors will still help each other out.
Community is still theretaking care of each other.
That's what we can dono matter what we can.
We can vote once in a while when thepolls are open, but every single day we
can live in our communities and be goodneighbors and make meaningful impact.

(57:02):
I really think ultimately That's whereindividuals can make a big difference.
Beautiful.
Kerri Vanderhof uh, tell us aboutwhat gives you hope right now.
Community media, we'rethinking about our neighbors.
what gives you hope?
I have the feeling that in the last yearor so it's put down the phones and , go
talk to your neighbor, go to an event andtalk to the person next to you, get to

(57:23):
know each other and have conversationsand I'm just, I don't think I'm the
only one who's longing for more of that.
And I do think, especially withthe younger generation, I do
teach adjunct, so I get to seethe 20 year olds rotating through.
And I do agree that I think that theysee the world differently, and do see
more of an us, and working together.
And I think that there's hope in thenext generation, and I think there's

(57:45):
hope in talking to your neighborsand I think there's hope in this
sort of type of work in communitythat people are ready to maybe dive
into a little bit more and grow.
The voice, the people, the community,the world that we want to be and live in.
Yes, man, I have given you a huge ovation.
That is beautiful to say.
Now that everybody's worked up and readyto come volunteer how do people find you,

(58:07):
get ahold of you, or uh, come participate?
GRCMC.
org.
That is where you'regoing to find all of it.
Where you're going to find GRTV, you'regoing to find volunteer opportunities,
how to sign up for classes how toaccess all of our resources, and
the website that is also built inhouse by our brilliant web services

(58:29):
staff, which is yet another service
that the GRCMC provides.
It's all there under one digital roof.
I think you're going to findwhat you're looking for.
And you're going to findthe person to reach out to.
Or come down and check us out at 711Bridge Street on the West side of town.
We are your Community Media Center.
Come on down and seewhat we have in store.

(58:51):
Kerri you looking for volunteers if alumnior students want to come help work out
in Muskegon Heights or in West Michigan?
We do and we have.
We've had internship programs and, otherways that we've worked with GVSU and
the wonderful film video program there.
uh, You can find us at MHCCD,that's Muskegon Heights CCD.
org, MHCCD.
org.
And you'll be able to watch some ofour trailers and video programs that

(59:15):
we have on there that were actuallycreated with some of our GVSU interns.
Lots of good things going on.
So cool.
And finally,  Jazmyne tell us abouthow people can get involved with GRMIFI
and your City Within a City project.
I'm sure students and alumnican't wait to get ahold of you.
Yeah well, we have a website, grmifi.
org.
And we also have one for GrandstandPictures, our production company,

(59:39):
and a City Within a City film.
The way to get in touchwould be grmifi at gmail.
com.
And people can ask to, come checkout our meetings and, fill out an
interest form and tell us what itis that they hope to, uh, pursue
creatively and, we can go from there.

(01:00:00):
Thank you all so much.
And thank you listenersfor joining us tonight.
My name's Randy Strobl, I'vebeen your host on this episode

of Alumni Live (01:00:07):
The Podcast.
Thanks everyone.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
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(01:00:27):
Grand Valley State University FilmVideo Alumni Network is here for
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Thank you for listening.