April 21, 2025 • 29 mins
Join current students Caitlyn Shaw, CK Hamilton, and Cam Layson as they share tips for ‘pitching’ projects for script and fiction classes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Welcome to Alumni Live (00:00):
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Hello and welcome toAlumni Live: The Podcast.
My name is Caitlyn Shaw and I'ma senior in the film and video
program specializing in directing.
Today we're talking about pitching.
Odds are most filmmakers make apitch at some point in their lives,
(00:22):
whether it's in front of a room fullof Netflix executives, or you're
just texting a friend about the filmyou wanna make during the summer.
And If you're listening to thispodcast, you might just be getting
ready to pitch one of your classes.
While our conversation today can beapplied to all forms of pitching for
today's episode, we will be primarilyfocusing on pitching as it relates to
the Fiction Filmmaking I and II coursesas of 2025 when we're recording this.
(00:44):
Basically, if you want to directin those classes, you have to
pitch in front of the class.
Within the first few weeks of theclass, there's pitch day where everyone
who wants to pitch gets five minutesto do so, followed by a brief Q&A.
After that, everyone in the classvotes for their favorite ideas, and
the four ideas of the most votesgets picked to be made that semester.
To get started, we should probablysay a bit of our experiences in
(01:04):
Fiction I and II, and what kind offilms we pitched and if we got picked.
Now that I've given some context, I wouldlike to introduce our incredibly talented
guests, Cam Layson and Caroline Hamilton.
So I pitched in both Fiction I and II.
I did not get picked in Ficiton I. Wecan talk about why later, but in Fiction
I, when I pitched a story, I wrote inmy Scriptwriting I class it was called
(01:25):
"Conformity." It was about two girlsmoving into an apartment in New York.
So it was focusing a littlebit on LGBT stories.
And then in Fiction II, I was verylucky to get picked and my story was
called "What To Do With You." And itwas "Blade Runner 2049" style, where an
assassin ends up finding a baby left inan apartment where she just did a job and
she has to figure out what to do with it.
(01:46):
So yeah.
Nice.
I'll go now.
Hi, I'm Cam by the way.
I was gonna mention like youpractice pitching in Script I
which gets you ready for Fiction.
Just like the idea of pitching astory, but pitching something that
you're actually gonna make in FicitonI and II is a little different.
And I was fortunate enough to get pickedfor Ficiton I and II like Caitlyn.
So the first thing I pitched wascalled "Breach." I was just making a
(02:10):
little horror short in a school abouta brother looking for his brother.
And then in Fiction II, Ipitched "Metal," which is about
killing a demon with a guitar.
I just thought that'd be cool.
I was very lucky, I pitched and gotpicked in both Fiction I and II.
Um, In Fiction I I pitched a filmcalled "Babble," which was about a
(02:30):
girl who got covered with paper, withall her anxious thoughts on them.
And it grew and it was ametaphor for like anxiety.
And then in Fiction II, I pitcheda period piece called "If You Die
I'll Kill You," which was abouta mom and daughter disagreeing
politically during the Vietnam era.
You guys have such profound, goodreasons for making your movies, and I'm
(02:50):
just like, I just want to make a demoncostume, I wanna put a saw on a guitar.
And I even like in my pitch, Iwas like, I don't have a reason.
I just want to do thisreally bad you guys.
And that's important too though'cause like you don't need to
have the most profound story ever.
Which I guess leads me into my next point,which is I feel like we're all people who
prepare, for pitching very differently.
So Cam, I wanna start with you 'causeparticularly with "Metal," didn't
(03:13):
you decide you were gonna pitch likethe day of or like the night before?
Yeah, it was the nightbefore I was so on the fence.
'Cause I was having a rough summer.
I knew I wanted to direct again 'causeI had so much fun directing "Breach,"
but I could not come up with somethingthat I was passionate enough about.
And I feel like that'sI'll get to this later too.
I feel like the best pitches come fromif you are just super passionate and
(03:34):
super believe in what your story is, that will come through in the pitch.
And so I didn't wanna pitch if I didn'thave anything that I really cared about.
To me it was like, other people haveideas that they really care about,
they're really passionate about.
I don't really have that.
But then the day before pitches wereI just met up with some friends.
I was with like Nevin and Irene I think,I dunno, we had a little writers room.
(03:57):
We were there 'cause Irenewas gonna pitch her thing.
So we were just all there tohelp each other with that.
And just while we're there just hangingout with people, I start brainstorming
out loud and we come up with the ideafor "Metal" in 15 minutes and right away
I'm like, yeah, I really like this idea.
Now I'm on it.
I want to do this.
I really want to make this thing.
That same night I madea pitch deck for it.
(04:17):
I had the vibe in my head and I waslike, okay, I know what I'm doing.
I literally like the day of whenever I'msupposed to pitch, I have this bulleted
list of my name, where I'm from, what'sthe story I wanna tell, what's the ending?
And then give a why.
And while I'm pitching, I alwayskeep in my mind like, okay.
Let's just get people excitedabout making this thing.
(04:40):
Let's make this sound like it's gonnabe really fun to like, make the movie.
So I'm like, I am gonna need a reallygood Production Designer and great Sound
Engineer cause this is all about music.
And at the beginning of my pitch, Iplayed a little bit of a metal song just
to get people thinking what I'm thinking.
And then, yeah, justlike hyping people up.
If you're a really good ProductionDesigner, I want you on my thing.
And they're, and then peopleare like, okay, yeah, I wanna do
(05:00):
some awesome production design.
And then people getexcited about making it.
And then you just find your peoplewho wanna make cool stuff with you.
You of all people speaking as someonewho has seen you pitch three times now.
I think you're the best pitcherthat I saw in our classes.
You just have such an infectious energy.
Nobody wants to make a film thatthe Director doesn't wanna make.
And you just go up there and , like youcould make a film about paint drying and
(05:23):
I would wanna make it with you becauseyou would go up there and you would
be like, this is the best paint ever.
And I'm excited to make it.
I'm gonna popcorn it over to CKnow because I know you have a bit
more methodical process when itcomes to prepping for pitching.
So what does that look like for you?
Yeah I definitely have a little bit ofa different process and it's something
(05:43):
I've gotten better at over time.
When I first got to Grand Valley,I thought I wanted to write,
but then end of my Scriptwritingclass freshman year, I was like,
oh yeah, this is what I wanna do.
But public speaking hasnever really been my thing.
I get super nervous, Iforget what I'm doing.
Many people can probably relate to that.
I remember in Script I I I knew whatI wanted with the script, but it's so
(06:08):
hard to figure out what is necessaryinformation to share with people.'
Cause I know for myself as a writer,when I'm writing everything that I am
putting into that script is importantto me, there's a reason it is happening.
And when you have five minutes, youdon't have the time to go page by
page and be like, this is the storyand this is why this is happening.
And so you have slowly figureout what is necessary to share.
(06:32):
And so when I pitched inFiction I, I was very nervous.
I was made to go last because I thinkthe professor knew I'd get nervous.
I'm not saying he did it intentionally,
But I managed to stay under five minutessurprisingly, but I just, I got really
nervous and I couldn't figure out inmy head what was important to share.
(06:53):
And so I don't think people reallyunderstood what I was trying to do.
And so I wasn't really surprisedwhen I didn't get picked.
But by not getting picked, that gave methe opportunity to not only watch other
people pitch that went on to direct orjust talking about their stuff in general.
It let me see kind of, what werethey doing that I could improve
on when I came back in FictionII and also just doing research.
(07:17):
I talked to some writers in theindustry and I went, how do I pitch?
I don't know what I'm doing.
And so I figured out, I just needed tofind my own process of there's not a
rule, there's not a way have to do it,it's just what makes it easier for you.
And I also learned through watchingpeople as well, at least in the film
program, the ideas that end up gettingpicked usually are ones where people
(07:38):
are A really passionate about themor there's something flashy about
them that gets people's attention.
And so I as a writer have a tendencyto write very grounded stuff.
I like things that are very internalturmoil, like the characters or
emotions are what's driving it.
And so I really had to figure out whatwere things that would get people's
(07:59):
attention and make me excited.
And so I ended up pitching "WhatTo Do With You" like I said.
And the thing that really I thinkgot people's attention with that is I
thought we've done sci-fi where peopleare just running around fighting,
trying to survive in dystopia, butwhat's something we haven't seen before?
And so I was like you just found a babyin apartment and it's there and now what?
(08:21):
And then pretty lights and colors.
And then in Fiction II, wewere also allowed to use pitch
decks, which helped me too.
'Cause I could illustrate I wanted.
So if I forgot what I was saying,I could go look the screen.
So I think that my process hasdefinitely evolved over time.
'cause I also took ScriptwritingII this past semester.
But the more you sit with it and figureit out and then learning what are the
(08:43):
important bits to share with people?
So my senior thesis project right now iscalled "Philia," and it's about this boy
with depression who meets this nymph inthe woods and then just befriends her.
And that story was important to me.
It has a piece that I'm interestedin, which is that internal turmoil,
but also has another piece.
There's this new idea of Greekmythology being introduced.
(09:03):
And also I am super passionate aboutit and I know every little detail,
but I know what's important to sharewith people to get their attention.
I definitely relate to you on the struggleof wanting to tell every little detail.
I usually like write a draftof the script before I pitch.
For me, it helps me out if I can see mystory.. But then my issue is , oh, I have
to explain every single beat that happens,but you just don't have time for that.
(09:26):
So usually what I do is once I have myscript and I know I want to pitch, I type
out, like if I was just explaining this,what was everything I would say, and
then I read through it and I time it.
And then usually I'm like,oh, that was 10 minutes long.
I can't do that.
So then I go back through andI'm like, what can I shorten?
For my Fiction II film, "If You Die I'llKill You" like there's this montage where
like the mom does a series of pettythings to stop the daughter from going.
(09:50):
But when I first read it, I didn'tsay she did a series of petty
things to stop her from going.
I explained each one in detail,but then looking back I'm like,
they don't need to know all that.
So that helps me.
And then also , practicing a lothelps me 'cause I don't usually
have an issue of public speaking.
But I do have an issue of , whenI get nervous, I ramble.
So I need to have it in my head.
So if I'm nervous, I already knowit, like the back of my hands.
(10:11):
So Fiction I and Fiction II,I made my lovely roommates
listen to me practice pitching.
And that was helpful 'cause like they arenot filmmakers, they're all STEM majors.
So I was like, if they can understandit, the film people can understand it.
And I made them listen to it a bunch.
And they were also helpful they werelike this part's a little confusing or
like you spoke a little fast here, soI just practice a bunch and I do wanna
(10:33):
give a shout out that I've never usedit, but I know a couple people who go to
the Speech Lab 'cause you can practicegiving a speech that'll give you feedback.
So that can be a good resourceyour roommates are not as nice
as mine and don't wanna listento you ramble about your film.
We have all pitched as we havediscussed, but we also have
all seen other people pitch.
So I think I wanna open the floor now.
As a citizen and a voter of film classeswhat do you guys look for in a pitch?
(10:58):
What have you seen in apitch that is like red flag?
I'm not voting for it.
To get the ball rolling peoplebeing excited for a film
is always a plus for me.
If someone's excited about a film, I'mlike, if you're excited, I'm excited.
I don't know anyone who pitches, whoisn't a little nervous, even if they
seem like they're on top of the world.
But like if someone's just mumbling andlike being nervous the whole time, it's
I don't know if I want you as a directorif like you can't pitch for five minutes.
(11:22):
For me, when I'm like, I'm sure Ihave noticed this in pitches, but I
can't say for sure because I can'tread other people's minds, for me it's
like a pitch is only every pitch I'vedone is you only get five minutes.
Like we talked about that.
And there's all this stuff Iwant to convey in five minutes.
So I'll be in my room practicing my pitchout loud with a timer or something and
saying everything I think I wanna say.
(11:43):
And it's like I've got it downto almost like script right?
I've got exactly what I wanna say.
I'm gonna say all this stuff.
Everyone's gonna get it.
They're gonna understandthe vibe I'm going for.
And then when you actually get upthere and you're in front of people,
it's like that's goes out the windowand it becomes just like, all right,
let's just say what I remember.
And I am very grateful and I'mfortunate and lucky enough to
have gotten picked both times thatI pitched for Fiction I and II.
(12:05):
But I know for both pitches there wasstuff that I had originally wanted
to say that I just didn't say becauseit's not even that I ran out of time.
Like I think "Metal's" pitch waslike three minutes or something.
Cause I just get nervous and I just startrushing through everything I wanna say
that I just forget stuff and it's justlike I, that can't just be me, right?
Like I, there's gotta be other peoplepitching who practice it for so
(12:25):
long, practice it over and over,have a script down in their head.
But then they get up there andthe nerves just start to take over
and then it becomes a rush you'reforgetting everything you wanna say.
And maybe you leave out importantbits like, ending a pitch.
And then it's oh, , I wanted tomention this thing and I just
didn't get to it ' cause it's likehaving that timer is stressful, man.
The clock.
The clock is daunting and I dreadit, but it's important too 'cause
(12:48):
it's if you can get in everything ormostly everything you wanna say in
five minutes then it's a good pitch.
Then you've got, then you've got yourstory condensed into five minutes,
got everything you're passionate aboutand just that little amount of time.
So that's good too.
But that's just what I've noticedin myself, and I'm sure everyone
else has been like that so.
I think there is suchthing as over preparing.
(13:09):
I have definitely realized in thefew times I've pitched that if I over
practice, if I over time myself, thenwhen I get up there I have a tendency to
panic more because then I'm not sayingexactly what I thought I would say.
There's like a list of five thingsthat you're supposed to say, or four
things, which is you say your name,say you're the writer, say what your
(13:30):
story is, say why you wanna tell it.
And so just having a general ideaof what those things are and like,
okay, I have to hit these points,but everything else in between.
I can practice a little bit andthen we'll just see what happens.
So I just, be prepared, but don't beso prepared that when you get up there,
you're panicking, at least for myself.
But when it comes to watching peoplepitch and stories that I've voted
(13:50):
for I definitely think that I'mwatching to see if they're passionate,
like we said.
Even if they're quiet about it, if theyseem to have a really big familiarity
with the story, if they understand whypeople are doing things or why this thing
is happening, what their goal is with thestory, that definitely gets my attention.
Oh, they understand they are focused.
(14:11):
They know what they want, even if they'rea more quiet or soft spoken person.
If they tend to ramble or not reallyknow what they're doing or be like
I don't know what's gonna happen atthe end, or I don't really have the
script written, or things like that.
That is a red flag for me of maybe Ishouldn't vote for them because they
don't seem to know what they want.
I wanna add on to what you saidbecause I feel like, for me,
(14:33):
a big thing is feasibility.
If Cam had pitched, I wanna make afilm with 600 demons fighting each
other, I would've been like, loveyou Cam, but no way that's happening.
You really have to like know yourangle and how to like pitch your film.
For me with "Babble" like we hadone of the locations was like
the character's mind, and it wasthis giant box made out of paper.
And I knew that when I pitched, I wasgonna be asked how am I gonna make this?
(14:56):
So I made sure I had a planbecause I'm like, this doesn't seem
feasible, I'm not gonna get picked.
Our Fic 1 class, there was a pitchthat was pretty solid and then we
got to the Q&A and someone askedlike, where do you wanna film this?
And they said, oh,probably the sand dunes.
And this was during the winter semester.
And you could just immediately seethe whole class was like, Nope.
(15:17):
That's gonna be cold and miserable.
So stay true to your story, but youjust gotta think how you wanna pitch.
Like I also remember I heard onepitch where I knew the script had
five location changes, but when theperson pitched, they were strategic
and did not mention that 'cause theyknew that would be like a detractor.
So I would say like with pitching,it's like how realistic does this seem?
And again, like that doesn't mean Idon't vote for ambitious films 'cause
(15:38):
I have, but it's is this feasible?
Can this be pulled offof our resources times?
And also what time of the year it is.
If you wanna make a movie abouta beach party, maybe don't pitch
that in the winter semester.
It's gonna be miserable.
We're taking a short break totell you about the Dirk Koning
Memorial Film and Video scholarship.
Here's Gretchen Vinnedgeremembering Dirk Koning.
The Koning Scholarship enables studentsto get that kind of an education, to be
(16:02):
a good filmmaker, to be able to expresstheir voice and to continue Dirk's dream.
For more information, and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
Now, back to the show.
I definitely a hundred percent thinkit's very important to stick to your
story, stick to what you wanna tell.
But I think there's a lot of importancein being open to creative feedback
(16:25):
and mentioning that in your pitch.
I feel like it can get dangerous ifsomeone's pitching and they make
it obvious from the get go that likewe're, this is the story I want to do.
I will not waver like I'vethought about this so much.
I think it's important to be attached toyour script, but not so glued and attached
to it that you can't change some stuff.
Like, for example when Ifirst pitched "Breach," it was
like a $50,000 production.
(16:47):
The script I had in mind,had like four characters.
Okay for the record, I still think wecould have pulled it off, but Joel pointed
out like, yeah, this is like too much.
And it was.
So it started with four charactersthat were completely different
from what it ended up being.
It was four characters and it turned intojust two characters, just two brothers.
The story completely changed.
The ending completely changed.
A bunch of productiondesign completely changed.
(17:08):
But the one thing I'm proud of withthat is even though it changed so much,
I think in my head, the original vibethat I was going for, we still, that
still came across we changed storystuff to make it make sense which
definitely made it better, I think.
But we still stuck to the main thingthat I pitched, which was like a
analog horror, short kinda thing.
So of course it's important to knowyour script, love your script, but I
(17:30):
say definitely be open to feedback.
And be open to changing somestuff it will really only help.
I feel like that's the fine, 'causeyou're not just pitching your story,
you're pitching yourself as a director.
Like the director really is thedriving force and if the director's
not on top of it, it trickles down.
, but I feel like the Q&A too, especially in like Ficiton I,
when you don't really know all thepeople there, like it tells you,
(17:51):
who they are 'cause it, I agree withyou, it is a red flag if it's like
every time someone's oh, have youthought of doing this with the ending?
They're like, no.
But also in the same vein, you don'twant it to be like, oh, have you
thought about this for the ending?
They're like, I don't know.
It could be, or it could not be.
I don't really know.
Like the ending, it could be whatever.
So I feel like I agree with you.
It is a, green flag if someone'soh, I haven't thought of that.
I would consider that 'cause people haveto work with you for a whole semester.
(18:12):
Yeah, and like that also, gets peopleexcited about making it, because
then you get cool like-minded peoplearound you that just want to help you
make this thing as best as possible.
And then they're excited to like, giveyou that creative input and help out.
And so taking that creative input,taking that collaboration is how
you meet these cool people who justwant to make cool stuff with you.
The Q&A I do is very important toobecause it also gives you an idea
(18:34):
as a writer of if people are gettingwhat you're saying and also if they're
interested in what you're saying.
I think too, when I'm picking people,I watch the way they pitch, but I also
watch the way they respond to questions.
If they're responding in a way thatthey seem like they know what they
want and what they're doing, or ifthey're being defensive about the
questions, like you were sayingno, I don't wanna do that at all.
That's not what I want.
Those signs of lack of flexibilityor if they seem a little
(18:57):
confused about what they want.
Sometimes it works out if they are like,I don't know what I'd exactly want,
but I wanna build this with people.
Sometimes if you are passionateabout what you want, that you're
willing to build with people,sometimes you'll get some interest.
But again, having that familiaritywith your story, but also
just, try to be a nice person.
Try to be open to feedback.
I know feedback is the hardest thingin the world to take, but if people
(19:20):
are asking you questions, they'reusually more likely to pick you.
I know when I've pitched in the past,every time I finish a pitch, I always
know how well I did based on how manypeople are asking me questions' cause
that means they wanna know more.
I would argue the Q&A is as importantas the pitch when it comes to that.
Your reputation as a person alsodefinitely impacts votes because film
(19:41):
and especially like just the arts isall connection based, like you get work
because oh, I'm friends with so and soand I was on a set with this person.
Let's bring them on.
So I wanna warn the future generationsthat, like in our Fiction II class,
there were definitely some people whopitched who I like before they even
said their idea I'm like, you're notgonna get picked to direct 'cause, like
you weren't nice to someone in the lastclass or like you didn't show up on time.
(20:02):
I've seen people who likesay oh, like I'll take it
seriously when I'm a director.
People don't forget the person who likeforgot the tripod in Media I or corrupted
the SD card in like an editing class.
So I really wanna remind peoplethat even if you don't get picked,
be a good person, be a respectfulperson, do your job, because
people remember that kind of stuff.
And that impacts how people vote.
(20:22):
And even in a good way too, it'slike, oh, like so and so like was
such a lifesaver on this one set,
I'm gonna vote for whatever they vote for.
So I don't think it's the onlyfactor, but I think it is a factor.
Oh, for sure.
I think you don't have to be friendswith everyone, but you have to
have enough professionalism andrespect to at least get along.
And I think when people pitch,if you've had a bad experience
(20:43):
with them or you've heard thingsthat definitely can influence.
I do think too, it's importantto keep in mind that people
are human, they make mistakes.
Things happen.
Maybe they were having a bad day onthat set day, like what do I know?
So while I do think that could be aswaying factor, if these people seem
to genuinely be trying to do betterand improve and make up for their
(21:06):
mistakes, I think that definitelycan also influence who gets picked.
Because if they see that you're growingas a person and you're still trying to get
better and you're not just like sittingand you're like, ah, everyone just hates
me and I can't better, and it's them.
Then like that attitude is soeasy to spot and definitely
something that discourages people.
(21:26):
There's so many factors, so many things.
So what is your biggest advice to someone?
Like you didn't get picked,what do you do going forward?
Yeah, that can be really demoralizing.
It can be really hard.
But we're in an industry wheregetting told no is very common.
It's gonna happen a ton.
Getting used to that and developingthat thick skin is helpful.
(21:47):
But I always think it's goodto try to find the positive.
Like I didn't get picked in FictionI and I pitched and I was like,
I don't think I did well in thatpitch, but I can hope I get it.
And then I didn't getpicked and that was okay.
But a perk to that is that meant I gotto work on one of my friends' films.
It's called "What's In Our Son'sRoom", which is about these two parents
trying to decide what do with theirson who's turned into a monster.
(22:10):
So I got to help him do thatproject and I got to help him grow
as a writer and a director, andI got to watch other people grow.
And if I had gotten picked, I wouldn'thave necessarily gotten that experience.
So there was my perk in that.
The other thing is give yourselfa couple days to mourn it
before you start doing anything.
It's okay to be sad that youdidn't get what you wanted.
(22:31):
But also recognizing like, thisdoesn't make or break you as a
person or your career or anything.
Recognizing that, but beingokay with feeling your
emotions before doing anything.
And also just thinking aboutwhat you could do to improve,
not what did I do wrong, but whatcan I practice to get better?
So in Fiction I, when Ipitched, I've rambled so much.
I don't know if I actuallytold the story at all.
(22:52):
Yeah, I think I barelyremember what happened.
I was so nervous.
And so I recognized that, and so when Ipitched in Fiction II, I was writing that
story before the semester even started.
I was working on it.
And then when I went to pitch, I mademy pitch deck and then I wrote down
the key things that I knew I had to sayeven if I forgot to say them, but just
remembering those things and knowing okay,I need to prepare in this way this time.
(23:16):
And then the third thing thatI did is also just knowing
yourself when you're presenting.
I know I'm not super good about eyecontact when presenting, and sometimes
people think that if you're not lookingat them, that you're not, as confident.
And so I had to figure out what could Ido to make it look like I am confident
without stressing myself out, trying tolook at each individual person's eyes.
(23:39):
And so I figured out oh, I can lookover their heads at the wall and
it looks like I'm looking at them,but then I don't have to stare at
people and forget what I'm saying.
It makes me feel better if I havesomething in my hands when I'm pitching
and someone actually gave me thisgreat advice that I do every time.
Now if you hold a pencil in your hand,it makes you look more intellectual,
but it also gives you something to hold.
So now whenever I pitch, I hold a pencilbecause then I have something to hold and
(24:02):
I can also just have it to fidget with.
Now, that can go wrong you drop pencil,but in theory, it's a great idea.
Trying to refine what you can do to bebetter, but also looking at yourself and
thinking like, what do I as a person needin order to be successful in doing this?
Because everyone pitchesa little differently.
Everyone has a different way of talking,a different way of telling their stories.
(24:23):
They think certain things aremore important than other things.
Like between writers Cam waslike, I wanna make something cool.
And I'm like, I want todestroy your emotions.
I'm just kidding, but I wannamake you feel something.
And so for me, that would mean Iwanna figure out how I can display
that emotional context in a waythat gets people's attention.
And then, just knowing yourself, whatare the things you need to be successful?
(24:44):
Do I need to hold apencil and not drop it?
Or things like that.
I also think if you don't get pickedto pitch, maybe this sounds corny
or something, I don't know, butthere's always a chance, have your
pitch in the back of your mind.
For example, I was out at like aWealthy Theater showing for something
and I saw someone, I knew he was inthe film program, but didn't really
know him and just got to talking.
This was before filming "Metal."So this was like a couple months
(25:08):
ago now, and just outta nowhere,he is like, what are you making?
Gimme your pitch right now.
I was like, oh, okay.
And then I'm like on thespot and I'm like, okay.
And I did, I tried to the best of myability just 'cause I had it still
fresh in my head like, yeah, it'sabout this guy and his girlfriend drive
through the woods and then there's thisdemon, and I'm giving him my pitch.
But there could be a time where you'reput in a situation with someone who
(25:29):
wants to make movies and wants to makemovies with you, and they're like, gimme
your pitch, and you have something.
And they're like, that's such a good idea.
I'll help you make this thing.
And then you're just making movieswith friends, just having something,
even if you don't get picked to pitch,just having something you're passionate
about, having something you want tomake, if that's what you want to do, is
good to have in the back of your mind.
Yeah.
And the kind of bouncing off of that, thisis like Caitlyn pitching to her roommates.
(25:53):
I think the more you talk about youridea and the more you, as you say, pitch
it to people or just say it to randompeople, the more you will be confident
in your story and the more you willbe able to tell it to people whether
you're watching their body languageor seeing when they check out of when
you're pitching, just the more you sayit, the more confident you are in what
you are trying to say on your piece,and the more you are able to effectively
(26:15):
communicate that when you are pitching.
To close us off, I'm gonna ask everyonewhat is your biggest piece of advice
you would give to someone who wants topitch I think I would say you have to
be like your own biggest cheerleaderand just believe yourself and do it.
I pitched, I like went to someone Ireally respected and I told them my
idea and I was trying to get somefeedback and they told me it made no
(26:36):
sense and that no one would vote for it.
And I was devastated.
I went home and I like questioned my wholelife choices and I almost didn't pitch
but then I was like, no, like this is astory that I really believe in and I wanna
make the film my younger self never had.
'cause again, it was about likemy struggles of anxiety and then I
went and I pitched and I got picked.
But like if I had listened tothat, naysayer I wouldn't have.
(26:57):
Even if other people don't get your idea,just pitch, you don't lose anything from
just trying and like, you never know.
And not every story isgonna be for everyone.
Not everyone's gonna get every film,but just go for it and pitch 'cause
you never know what's gonna happen.
So that's my advice, which is just beyour own hype person and just go and
do it and don't worry about what anyoneelse thinks 'cause all that matters
is that you went out and you tried.
(27:18):
Yeah, going off of that I know wementioned it before, but like if you're
just passionate enough about your script,it will come through in the pitch.
And that's that's what I look for ina pitch and if you really believe in
yourself and and believe in your scriptand your story, and you really just want
to make this thing, people can tell thatyou just really wanna make this thing
and you're gonna make this happen becauseyou're passionate about it, that will
(27:41):
come through regardless of your story.
Passion will come through.
Yeah the first thing I wouldsay is what Caitlyn said.
You lose nothing by pitching.
For my shy people out there,just put yourself out there.
Go for it.
You never know what's gonnahappen and you know the world's
not gonna explode and become anapocalypse if you don't get picked.
It just means, okay, it's not my turn.
(28:02):
What can I do?
How can I improve?
Don't let your fear stopyou from doing that.
And also, I think too, this kind of tiesinto not getting picked or being afraid
to get picked, but if you are worried,people are not gonna get your idea.
That's okay.
Your ideas don't have to be for everyone.
You just have to sell one person in theroom or a group of people in the room,
(28:24):
just so that they will give you a chance.
Or if you feel like you don'thave something to say, I guarantee
you have something to say thatsomeone else will be interested in.
Alrighty.
Thank you guys for being heretoday and good luck to anyone who's
pitching after listening to this.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
(28:46):
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm/ Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Hello and welcome toAlumni Live: The Podcast.
My name is Caitlyn Shaw and I'ma senior in the film and video
program specializing in directing.
Today we're talking about pitching.
Odds are most filmmakers make apitch at some point in their lives,
(00:22):
whether it's in front of a room fullof Netflix executives, or you're
just texting a friend about the filmyou wanna make during the summer.
And If you're listening to thispodcast, you might just be getting
ready to pitch one of your classes.
While our conversation today can beapplied to all forms of pitching for
today's episode, we will be primarilyfocusing on pitching as it relates to
the Fiction Filmmaking I and II coursesas of 2025 when we're recording this.
(00:44):
Basically, if you want to directin those classes, you have to
pitch in front of the class.
Within the first few weeks of theclass, there's pitch day where everyone
who wants to pitch gets five minutesto do so, followed by a brief Q&A.
After that, everyone in the classvotes for their favorite ideas, and
the four ideas of the most votesgets picked to be made that semester.
To get started, we should probablysay a bit of our experiences in
(01:04):
Fiction I and II, and what kind offilms we pitched and if we got picked.
Now that I've given some context, I wouldlike to introduce our incredibly talented
guests, Cam Layson and Caroline Hamilton.
So I pitched in both Fiction I and II.
I did not get picked in Ficiton I. Wecan talk about why later, but in Fiction
I, when I pitched a story, I wrote inmy Scriptwriting I class it was called
(01:25):
"Conformity." It was about two girlsmoving into an apartment in New York.
So it was focusing a littlebit on LGBT stories.
And then in Fiction II, I was verylucky to get picked and my story was
called "What To Do With You." And itwas "Blade Runner 2049" style, where an
assassin ends up finding a baby left inan apartment where she just did a job and
she has to figure out what to do with it.
(01:46):
So yeah.
Nice.
I'll go now.
Hi, I'm Cam by the way.
I was gonna mention like youpractice pitching in Script I
which gets you ready for Fiction.
Just like the idea of pitching astory, but pitching something that
you're actually gonna make in FicitonI and II is a little different.
And I was fortunate enough to get pickedfor Ficiton I and II like Caitlyn.
So the first thing I pitched wascalled "Breach." I was just making a
(02:10):
little horror short in a school abouta brother looking for his brother.
And then in Fiction II, Ipitched "Metal," which is about
killing a demon with a guitar.
I just thought that'd be cool.
I was very lucky, I pitched and gotpicked in both Fiction I and II.
Um, In Fiction I I pitched a filmcalled "Babble," which was about a
(02:30):
girl who got covered with paper, withall her anxious thoughts on them.
And it grew and it was ametaphor for like anxiety.
And then in Fiction II, I pitcheda period piece called "If You Die
I'll Kill You," which was abouta mom and daughter disagreeing
politically during the Vietnam era.
You guys have such profound, goodreasons for making your movies, and I'm
(02:50):
just like, I just want to make a demoncostume, I wanna put a saw on a guitar.
And I even like in my pitch, Iwas like, I don't have a reason.
I just want to do thisreally bad you guys.
And that's important too though'cause like you don't need to
have the most profound story ever.
Which I guess leads me into my next point,which is I feel like we're all people who
prepare, for pitching very differently.
So Cam, I wanna start with you 'causeparticularly with "Metal," didn't
(03:13):
you decide you were gonna pitch likethe day of or like the night before?
Yeah, it was the nightbefore I was so on the fence.
'Cause I was having a rough summer.
I knew I wanted to direct again 'causeI had so much fun directing "Breach,"
but I could not come up with somethingthat I was passionate enough about.
And I feel like that'sI'll get to this later too.
I feel like the best pitches come fromif you are just super passionate and
(03:34):
super believe in what your story is, that will come through in the pitch.
And so I didn't wanna pitch if I didn'thave anything that I really cared about.
To me it was like, other people haveideas that they really care about,
they're really passionate about.
I don't really have that.
But then the day before pitches wereI just met up with some friends.
I was with like Nevin and Irene I think,I dunno, we had a little writers room.
(03:57):
We were there 'cause Irenewas gonna pitch her thing.
So we were just all there tohelp each other with that.
And just while we're there just hangingout with people, I start brainstorming
out loud and we come up with the ideafor "Metal" in 15 minutes and right away
I'm like, yeah, I really like this idea.
Now I'm on it.
I want to do this.
I really want to make this thing.
That same night I madea pitch deck for it.
(04:17):
I had the vibe in my head and I waslike, okay, I know what I'm doing.
I literally like the day of whenever I'msupposed to pitch, I have this bulleted
list of my name, where I'm from, what'sthe story I wanna tell, what's the ending?
And then give a why.
And while I'm pitching, I alwayskeep in my mind like, okay.
Let's just get people excitedabout making this thing.
(04:40):
Let's make this sound like it's gonnabe really fun to like, make the movie.
So I'm like, I am gonna need a reallygood Production Designer and great Sound
Engineer cause this is all about music.
And at the beginning of my pitch, Iplayed a little bit of a metal song just
to get people thinking what I'm thinking.
And then, yeah, justlike hyping people up.
If you're a really good ProductionDesigner, I want you on my thing.
And they're, and then peopleare like, okay, yeah, I wanna do
(05:00):
some awesome production design.
And then people getexcited about making it.
And then you just find your peoplewho wanna make cool stuff with you.
You of all people speaking as someonewho has seen you pitch three times now.
I think you're the best pitcherthat I saw in our classes.
You just have such an infectious energy.
Nobody wants to make a film thatthe Director doesn't wanna make.
And you just go up there and , like youcould make a film about paint drying and
(05:23):
I would wanna make it with you becauseyou would go up there and you would
be like, this is the best paint ever.
And I'm excited to make it.
I'm gonna popcorn it over to CKnow because I know you have a bit
more methodical process when itcomes to prepping for pitching.
So what does that look like for you?
Yeah I definitely have a little bit ofa different process and it's something
(05:43):
I've gotten better at over time.
When I first got to Grand Valley,I thought I wanted to write,
but then end of my Scriptwritingclass freshman year, I was like,
oh yeah, this is what I wanna do.
But public speaking hasnever really been my thing.
I get super nervous, Iforget what I'm doing.
Many people can probably relate to that.
I remember in Script I I I knew whatI wanted with the script, but it's so
(06:08):
hard to figure out what is necessaryinformation to share with people.'
Cause I know for myself as a writer,when I'm writing everything that I am
putting into that script is importantto me, there's a reason it is happening.
And when you have five minutes, youdon't have the time to go page by
page and be like, this is the storyand this is why this is happening.
And so you have slowly figureout what is necessary to share.
(06:32):
And so when I pitched inFiction I, I was very nervous.
I was made to go last because I thinkthe professor knew I'd get nervous.
I'm not saying he did it intentionally,
But I managed to stay under five minutessurprisingly, but I just, I got really
nervous and I couldn't figure out inmy head what was important to share.
(06:53):
And so I don't think people reallyunderstood what I was trying to do.
And so I wasn't really surprisedwhen I didn't get picked.
But by not getting picked, that gave methe opportunity to not only watch other
people pitch that went on to direct orjust talking about their stuff in general.
It let me see kind of, what werethey doing that I could improve
on when I came back in FictionII and also just doing research.
(07:17):
I talked to some writers in theindustry and I went, how do I pitch?
I don't know what I'm doing.
And so I figured out, I just needed tofind my own process of there's not a
rule, there's not a way have to do it,it's just what makes it easier for you.
And I also learned through watchingpeople as well, at least in the film
program, the ideas that end up gettingpicked usually are ones where people
(07:38):
are A really passionate about themor there's something flashy about
them that gets people's attention.
And so I as a writer have a tendencyto write very grounded stuff.
I like things that are very internalturmoil, like the characters or
emotions are what's driving it.
And so I really had to figure out whatwere things that would get people's
(07:59):
attention and make me excited.
And so I ended up pitching "WhatTo Do With You" like I said.
And the thing that really I thinkgot people's attention with that is I
thought we've done sci-fi where peopleare just running around fighting,
trying to survive in dystopia, butwhat's something we haven't seen before?
And so I was like you just found a babyin apartment and it's there and now what?
(08:21):
And then pretty lights and colors.
And then in Fiction II, wewere also allowed to use pitch
decks, which helped me too.
'Cause I could illustrate I wanted.
So if I forgot what I was saying,I could go look the screen.
So I think that my process hasdefinitely evolved over time.
'cause I also took ScriptwritingII this past semester.
But the more you sit with it and figureit out and then learning what are the
(08:43):
important bits to share with people?
So my senior thesis project right now iscalled "Philia," and it's about this boy
with depression who meets this nymph inthe woods and then just befriends her.
And that story was important to me.
It has a piece that I'm interestedin, which is that internal turmoil,
but also has another piece.
There's this new idea of Greekmythology being introduced.
(09:03):
And also I am super passionate aboutit and I know every little detail,
but I know what's important to sharewith people to get their attention.
I definitely relate to you on the struggleof wanting to tell every little detail.
I usually like write a draftof the script before I pitch.
For me, it helps me out if I can see mystory.. But then my issue is , oh, I have
to explain every single beat that happens,but you just don't have time for that.
(09:26):
So usually what I do is once I have myscript and I know I want to pitch, I type
out, like if I was just explaining this,what was everything I would say, and
then I read through it and I time it.
And then usually I'm like,oh, that was 10 minutes long.
I can't do that.
So then I go back through andI'm like, what can I shorten?
For my Fiction II film, "If You Die I'llKill You" like there's this montage where
like the mom does a series of pettythings to stop the daughter from going.
(09:50):
But when I first read it, I didn'tsay she did a series of petty
things to stop her from going.
I explained each one in detail,but then looking back I'm like,
they don't need to know all that.
So that helps me.
And then also , practicing a lothelps me 'cause I don't usually
have an issue of public speaking.
But I do have an issue of , whenI get nervous, I ramble.
So I need to have it in my head.
So if I'm nervous, I already knowit, like the back of my hands.
(10:11):
So Fiction I and Fiction II,I made my lovely roommates
listen to me practice pitching.
And that was helpful 'cause like they arenot filmmakers, they're all STEM majors.
So I was like, if they can understandit, the film people can understand it.
And I made them listen to it a bunch.
And they were also helpful they werelike this part's a little confusing or
like you spoke a little fast here, soI just practice a bunch and I do wanna
(10:33):
give a shout out that I've never usedit, but I know a couple people who go to
the Speech Lab 'cause you can practicegiving a speech that'll give you feedback.
So that can be a good resourceyour roommates are not as nice
as mine and don't wanna listento you ramble about your film.
We have all pitched as we havediscussed, but we also have
all seen other people pitch.
So I think I wanna open the floor now.
As a citizen and a voter of film classeswhat do you guys look for in a pitch?
(10:58):
What have you seen in apitch that is like red flag?
I'm not voting for it.
To get the ball rolling peoplebeing excited for a film
is always a plus for me.
If someone's excited about a film, I'mlike, if you're excited, I'm excited.
I don't know anyone who pitches, whoisn't a little nervous, even if they
seem like they're on top of the world.
But like if someone's just mumbling andlike being nervous the whole time, it's
I don't know if I want you as a directorif like you can't pitch for five minutes.
(11:22):
For me, when I'm like, I'm sure Ihave noticed this in pitches, but I
can't say for sure because I can'tread other people's minds, for me it's
like a pitch is only every pitch I'vedone is you only get five minutes.
Like we talked about that.
And there's all this stuff Iwant to convey in five minutes.
So I'll be in my room practicing my pitchout loud with a timer or something and
saying everything I think I wanna say.
(11:43):
And it's like I've got it downto almost like script right?
I've got exactly what I wanna say.
I'm gonna say all this stuff.
Everyone's gonna get it.
They're gonna understandthe vibe I'm going for.
And then when you actually get upthere and you're in front of people,
it's like that's goes out the windowand it becomes just like, all right,
let's just say what I remember.
And I am very grateful and I'mfortunate and lucky enough to
have gotten picked both times thatI pitched for Fiction I and II.
(12:05):
But I know for both pitches there wasstuff that I had originally wanted
to say that I just didn't say becauseit's not even that I ran out of time.
Like I think "Metal's" pitch waslike three minutes or something.
Cause I just get nervous and I just startrushing through everything I wanna say
that I just forget stuff and it's justlike I, that can't just be me, right?
Like I, there's gotta be other peoplepitching who practice it for so
(12:25):
long, practice it over and over,have a script down in their head.
But then they get up there andthe nerves just start to take over
and then it becomes a rush you'reforgetting everything you wanna say.
And maybe you leave out importantbits like, ending a pitch.
And then it's oh, , I wanted tomention this thing and I just
didn't get to it ' cause it's likehaving that timer is stressful, man.
The clock.
The clock is daunting and I dreadit, but it's important too 'cause
(12:48):
it's if you can get in everything ormostly everything you wanna say in
five minutes then it's a good pitch.
Then you've got, then you've got yourstory condensed into five minutes,
got everything you're passionate aboutand just that little amount of time.
So that's good too.
But that's just what I've noticedin myself, and I'm sure everyone
else has been like that so.
I think there is suchthing as over preparing.
(13:09):
I have definitely realized in thefew times I've pitched that if I over
practice, if I over time myself, thenwhen I get up there I have a tendency to
panic more because then I'm not sayingexactly what I thought I would say.
There's like a list of five thingsthat you're supposed to say, or four
things, which is you say your name,say you're the writer, say what your
(13:30):
story is, say why you wanna tell it.
And so just having a general ideaof what those things are and like,
okay, I have to hit these points,but everything else in between.
I can practice a little bit andthen we'll just see what happens.
So I just, be prepared, but don't beso prepared that when you get up there,
you're panicking, at least for myself.
But when it comes to watching peoplepitch and stories that I've voted
(13:50):
for I definitely think that I'mwatching to see if they're passionate,
like we said.
Even if they're quiet about it, if theyseem to have a really big familiarity
with the story, if they understand whypeople are doing things or why this thing
is happening, what their goal is with thestory, that definitely gets my attention.
Oh, they understand they are focused.
(14:11):
They know what they want, even if they'rea more quiet or soft spoken person.
If they tend to ramble or not reallyknow what they're doing or be like
I don't know what's gonna happen atthe end, or I don't really have the
script written, or things like that.
That is a red flag for me of maybe Ishouldn't vote for them because they
don't seem to know what they want.
I wanna add on to what you saidbecause I feel like, for me,
(14:33):
a big thing is feasibility.
If Cam had pitched, I wanna make afilm with 600 demons fighting each
other, I would've been like, loveyou Cam, but no way that's happening.
You really have to like know yourangle and how to like pitch your film.
For me with "Babble" like we hadone of the locations was like
the character's mind, and it wasthis giant box made out of paper.
And I knew that when I pitched, I wasgonna be asked how am I gonna make this?
(14:56):
So I made sure I had a planbecause I'm like, this doesn't seem
feasible, I'm not gonna get picked.
Our Fic 1 class, there was a pitchthat was pretty solid and then we
got to the Q&A and someone askedlike, where do you wanna film this?
And they said, oh,probably the sand dunes.
And this was during the winter semester.
And you could just immediately seethe whole class was like, Nope.
(15:17):
That's gonna be cold and miserable.
So stay true to your story, but youjust gotta think how you wanna pitch.
Like I also remember I heard onepitch where I knew the script had
five location changes, but when theperson pitched, they were strategic
and did not mention that 'cause theyknew that would be like a detractor.
So I would say like with pitching,it's like how realistic does this seem?
And again, like that doesn't mean Idon't vote for ambitious films 'cause
(15:38):
I have, but it's is this feasible?
Can this be pulled offof our resources times?
And also what time of the year it is.
If you wanna make a movie abouta beach party, maybe don't pitch
that in the winter semester.
It's gonna be miserable.
We're taking a short break totell you about the Dirk Koning
Memorial Film and Video scholarship.
Here's Gretchen Vinnedgeremembering Dirk Koning.
The Koning Scholarship enables studentsto get that kind of an education, to be
(16:02):
a good filmmaker, to be able to expresstheir voice and to continue Dirk's dream.
For more information, and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
Now, back to the show.
I definitely a hundred percent thinkit's very important to stick to your
story, stick to what you wanna tell.
But I think there's a lot of importancein being open to creative feedback
(16:25):
and mentioning that in your pitch.
I feel like it can get dangerous ifsomeone's pitching and they make
it obvious from the get go that likewe're, this is the story I want to do.
I will not waver like I'vethought about this so much.
I think it's important to be attached toyour script, but not so glued and attached
to it that you can't change some stuff.
Like, for example when Ifirst pitched "Breach," it was
like a $50,000 production.
(16:47):
The script I had in mind,had like four characters.
Okay for the record, I still think wecould have pulled it off, but Joel pointed
out like, yeah, this is like too much.
And it was.
So it started with four charactersthat were completely different
from what it ended up being.
It was four characters and it turned intojust two characters, just two brothers.
The story completely changed.
The ending completely changed.
A bunch of productiondesign completely changed.
(17:08):
But the one thing I'm proud of withthat is even though it changed so much,
I think in my head, the original vibethat I was going for, we still, that
still came across we changed storystuff to make it make sense which
definitely made it better, I think.
But we still stuck to the main thingthat I pitched, which was like a
analog horror, short kinda thing.
So of course it's important to knowyour script, love your script, but I
(17:30):
say definitely be open to feedback.
And be open to changing somestuff it will really only help.
I feel like that's the fine, 'causeyou're not just pitching your story,
you're pitching yourself as a director.
Like the director really is thedriving force and if the director's
not on top of it, it trickles down.
, but I feel like the Q&A too, especially in like Ficiton I,
when you don't really know all thepeople there, like it tells you,
(17:51):
who they are 'cause it, I agree withyou, it is a red flag if it's like
every time someone's oh, have youthought of doing this with the ending?
They're like, no.
But also in the same vein, you don'twant it to be like, oh, have you
thought about this for the ending?
They're like, I don't know.
It could be, or it could not be.
I don't really know.
Like the ending, it could be whatever.
So I feel like I agree with you.
It is a, green flag if someone'soh, I haven't thought of that.
I would consider that 'cause people haveto work with you for a whole semester.
(18:12):
Yeah, and like that also, gets peopleexcited about making it, because
then you get cool like-minded peoplearound you that just want to help you
make this thing as best as possible.
And then they're excited to like, giveyou that creative input and help out.
And so taking that creative input,taking that collaboration is how
you meet these cool people who justwant to make cool stuff with you.
The Q&A I do is very important toobecause it also gives you an idea
(18:34):
as a writer of if people are gettingwhat you're saying and also if they're
interested in what you're saying.
I think too, when I'm picking people,I watch the way they pitch, but I also
watch the way they respond to questions.
If they're responding in a way thatthey seem like they know what they
want and what they're doing, or ifthey're being defensive about the
questions, like you were sayingno, I don't wanna do that at all.
That's not what I want.
Those signs of lack of flexibilityor if they seem a little
(18:57):
confused about what they want.
Sometimes it works out if they are like,I don't know what I'd exactly want,
but I wanna build this with people.
Sometimes if you are passionateabout what you want, that you're
willing to build with people,sometimes you'll get some interest.
But again, having that familiaritywith your story, but also
just, try to be a nice person.
Try to be open to feedback.
I know feedback is the hardest thingin the world to take, but if people
(19:20):
are asking you questions, they'reusually more likely to pick you.
I know when I've pitched in the past,every time I finish a pitch, I always
know how well I did based on how manypeople are asking me questions' cause
that means they wanna know more.
I would argue the Q&A is as importantas the pitch when it comes to that.
Your reputation as a person alsodefinitely impacts votes because film
(19:41):
and especially like just the arts isall connection based, like you get work
because oh, I'm friends with so and soand I was on a set with this person.
Let's bring them on.
So I wanna warn the future generationsthat, like in our Fiction II class,
there were definitely some people whopitched who I like before they even
said their idea I'm like, you're notgonna get picked to direct 'cause, like
you weren't nice to someone in the lastclass or like you didn't show up on time.
(20:02):
I've seen people who likesay oh, like I'll take it
seriously when I'm a director.
People don't forget the person who likeforgot the tripod in Media I or corrupted
the SD card in like an editing class.
So I really wanna remind peoplethat even if you don't get picked,
be a good person, be a respectfulperson, do your job, because
people remember that kind of stuff.
And that impacts how people vote.
(20:22):
And even in a good way too, it'slike, oh, like so and so like was
such a lifesaver on this one set,
I'm gonna vote for whatever they vote for.
So I don't think it's the onlyfactor, but I think it is a factor.
Oh, for sure.
I think you don't have to be friendswith everyone, but you have to
have enough professionalism andrespect to at least get along.
And I think when people pitch,if you've had a bad experience
(20:43):
with them or you've heard thingsthat definitely can influence.
I do think too, it's importantto keep in mind that people
are human, they make mistakes.
Things happen.
Maybe they were having a bad day onthat set day, like what do I know?
So while I do think that could be aswaying factor, if these people seem
to genuinely be trying to do betterand improve and make up for their
(21:06):
mistakes, I think that definitelycan also influence who gets picked.
Because if they see that you're growingas a person and you're still trying to get
better and you're not just like sittingand you're like, ah, everyone just hates
me and I can't better, and it's them.
Then like that attitude is soeasy to spot and definitely
something that discourages people.
(21:26):
There's so many factors, so many things.
So what is your biggest advice to someone?
Like you didn't get picked,what do you do going forward?
Yeah, that can be really demoralizing.
It can be really hard.
But we're in an industry wheregetting told no is very common.
It's gonna happen a ton.
Getting used to that and developingthat thick skin is helpful.
(21:47):
But I always think it's goodto try to find the positive.
Like I didn't get picked in FictionI and I pitched and I was like,
I don't think I did well in thatpitch, but I can hope I get it.
And then I didn't getpicked and that was okay.
But a perk to that is that meant I gotto work on one of my friends' films.
It's called "What's In Our Son'sRoom", which is about these two parents
trying to decide what do with theirson who's turned into a monster.
(22:10):
So I got to help him do thatproject and I got to help him grow
as a writer and a director, andI got to watch other people grow.
And if I had gotten picked, I wouldn'thave necessarily gotten that experience.
So there was my perk in that.
The other thing is give yourselfa couple days to mourn it
before you start doing anything.
It's okay to be sad that youdidn't get what you wanted.
(22:31):
But also recognizing like, thisdoesn't make or break you as a
person or your career or anything.
Recognizing that, but beingokay with feeling your
emotions before doing anything.
And also just thinking aboutwhat you could do to improve,
not what did I do wrong, but whatcan I practice to get better?
So in Fiction I, when Ipitched, I've rambled so much.
I don't know if I actuallytold the story at all.
(22:52):
Yeah, I think I barelyremember what happened.
I was so nervous.
And so I recognized that, and so when Ipitched in Fiction II, I was writing that
story before the semester even started.
I was working on it.
And then when I went to pitch, I mademy pitch deck and then I wrote down
the key things that I knew I had to sayeven if I forgot to say them, but just
remembering those things and knowing okay,I need to prepare in this way this time.
(23:16):
And then the third thing thatI did is also just knowing
yourself when you're presenting.
I know I'm not super good about eyecontact when presenting, and sometimes
people think that if you're not lookingat them, that you're not, as confident.
And so I had to figure out what could Ido to make it look like I am confident
without stressing myself out, trying tolook at each individual person's eyes.
(23:39):
And so I figured out oh, I can lookover their heads at the wall and
it looks like I'm looking at them,but then I don't have to stare at
people and forget what I'm saying.
It makes me feel better if I havesomething in my hands when I'm pitching
and someone actually gave me thisgreat advice that I do every time.
Now if you hold a pencil in your hand,it makes you look more intellectual,
but it also gives you something to hold.
So now whenever I pitch, I hold a pencilbecause then I have something to hold and
(24:02):
I can also just have it to fidget with.
Now, that can go wrong you drop pencil,but in theory, it's a great idea.
Trying to refine what you can do to bebetter, but also looking at yourself and
thinking like, what do I as a person needin order to be successful in doing this?
Because everyone pitchesa little differently.
Everyone has a different way of talking,a different way of telling their stories.
(24:23):
They think certain things aremore important than other things.
Like between writers Cam waslike, I wanna make something cool.
And I'm like, I want todestroy your emotions.
I'm just kidding, but I wannamake you feel something.
And so for me, that would mean Iwanna figure out how I can display
that emotional context in a waythat gets people's attention.
And then, just knowing yourself, whatare the things you need to be successful?
(24:44):
Do I need to hold apencil and not drop it?
Or things like that.
I also think if you don't get pickedto pitch, maybe this sounds corny
or something, I don't know, butthere's always a chance, have your
pitch in the back of your mind.
For example, I was out at like aWealthy Theater showing for something
and I saw someone, I knew he was inthe film program, but didn't really
know him and just got to talking.
This was before filming "Metal."So this was like a couple months
(25:08):
ago now, and just outta nowhere,he is like, what are you making?
Gimme your pitch right now.
I was like, oh, okay.
And then I'm like on thespot and I'm like, okay.
And I did, I tried to the best of myability just 'cause I had it still
fresh in my head like, yeah, it'sabout this guy and his girlfriend drive
through the woods and then there's thisdemon, and I'm giving him my pitch.
But there could be a time where you'reput in a situation with someone who
(25:29):
wants to make movies and wants to makemovies with you, and they're like, gimme
your pitch, and you have something.
And they're like, that's such a good idea.
I'll help you make this thing.
And then you're just making movieswith friends, just having something,
even if you don't get picked to pitch,just having something you're passionate
about, having something you want tomake, if that's what you want to do, is
good to have in the back of your mind.
Yeah.
And the kind of bouncing off of that, thisis like Caitlyn pitching to her roommates.
(25:53):
I think the more you talk about youridea and the more you, as you say, pitch
it to people or just say it to randompeople, the more you will be confident
in your story and the more you willbe able to tell it to people whether
you're watching their body languageor seeing when they check out of when
you're pitching, just the more you sayit, the more confident you are in what
you are trying to say on your piece,and the more you are able to effectively
(26:15):
communicate that when you are pitching.
To close us off, I'm gonna ask everyonewhat is your biggest piece of advice
you would give to someone who wants topitch I think I would say you have to
be like your own biggest cheerleaderand just believe yourself and do it.
I pitched, I like went to someone Ireally respected and I told them my
idea and I was trying to get somefeedback and they told me it made no
(26:36):
sense and that no one would vote for it.
And I was devastated.
I went home and I like questioned my wholelife choices and I almost didn't pitch
but then I was like, no, like this is astory that I really believe in and I wanna
make the film my younger self never had.
'cause again, it was about likemy struggles of anxiety and then I
went and I pitched and I got picked.
But like if I had listened tothat, naysayer I wouldn't have.
(26:57):
Even if other people don't get your idea,just pitch, you don't lose anything from
just trying and like, you never know.
And not every story isgonna be for everyone.
Not everyone's gonna get every film,but just go for it and pitch 'cause
you never know what's gonna happen.
So that's my advice, which is just beyour own hype person and just go and
do it and don't worry about what anyoneelse thinks 'cause all that matters
is that you went out and you tried.
(27:18):
Yeah, going off of that I know wementioned it before, but like if you're
just passionate enough about your script,it will come through in the pitch.
And that's that's what I look for ina pitch and if you really believe in
yourself and and believe in your scriptand your story, and you really just want
to make this thing, people can tell thatyou just really wanna make this thing
and you're gonna make this happen becauseyou're passionate about it, that will
(27:41):
come through regardless of your story.
Passion will come through.
Yeah the first thing I wouldsay is what Caitlyn said.
You lose nothing by pitching.
For my shy people out there,just put yourself out there.
Go for it.
You never know what's gonnahappen and you know the world's
not gonna explode and become anapocalypse if you don't get picked.
It just means, okay, it's not my turn.
(28:02):
What can I do?
How can I improve?
Don't let your fear stopyou from doing that.
And also, I think too, this kind of tiesinto not getting picked or being afraid
to get picked, but if you are worried,people are not gonna get your idea.
That's okay.
Your ideas don't have to be for everyone.
You just have to sell one person in theroom or a group of people in the room,
(28:24):
just so that they will give you a chance.
Or if you feel like you don'thave something to say, I guarantee
you have something to say thatsomeone else will be interested in.
Alrighty.
Thank you guys for being heretoday and good luck to anyone who's
pitching after listening to this.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
(28:46):
Check out Alumni Live on Facebook,Instagram, and YouTube for more
conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm/ Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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