September 24, 2024 • 32 mins
Current student Caitlyn Shaw talks with Alumni Mike Judd (1999) about his work as an Assistant Director and Director on “Young Sheldon”. Mike discusses the daily life and challenges of an Assistant Director on a popular television series. Sharing insights on the winding path of moving from Michigan to Los Angeles, working as a production assistant on major feature films, and navigating the process of becoming a union member.
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Mike Judd IMBD
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LINKS
Mike Judd IMBD
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
- The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
- GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to Alumni Live (00:03):
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Welcome back to Alumni Live, the podcast.
I'm Caitlyn Shaw, and I'm a second yearfilm and video major with an interest
in directing, which is why I am veryexcited to be speaking with today's
(00:23):
guest, Mike Judd, who is currentlyworking as a director and AD in LA.
Mike has worked on a number ofprojects, both film and television,
ranging from films like EvanAlmighty and Gran Torino, to the
TV shows New Girl and Young Sheldon.
He also wrote, directed, and producedhis independent film, Own Worst Enemy.
Welcome, Mike.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
Can you just give us a briefoverview of what you do and kind of
(00:46):
the history of how you got there?
I will try to be brief.
Sure.
The last, 12 years I've been workingprimarily as a first assistant director.
Largely on television series, butthe occasional indie feature or pilot
in between, some of those seasons.
And then the the last three, threeand a half years I've also been
directing a bit on Young Sheldon whichis the show I've currently been on.
(01:07):
in general, kind of the broad viewof it, when I moved out to LA.
in about, 2000, late2000, started doing P.
A.
work and some non union camera A.
C.
work.
The PA work was on largely,like kind of studio films.
I was doing like Seabiscuitand The Ring and, Terminator 3.
So it was, you know, being able tobe on some very large, film sets.
And then after a while, I was able, I hadenough days of being a PA that I could
(01:31):
submit that to the Director's Guild andjoin the DGA as a assistant director.
And then it just kind of,kept going from there.
Did you always know you wantedto work in film and television?
I wouldn't say always.
I didn't, when I came to Grand Valley, Ididn't even really know what I was going
to get myself into, but my roommate at thetime and friend, Dan Peretti and I both.
Kind of were film buffs and thought thatwe should start writing screenplays.
(01:54):
And somebody introduced us to thefilm program and gave us a tour.
And then in order to take thescreenwriting class, which we
wanted to do, we had to takethe beginning production class.
And by that point I was hooked.
And I liked all aspects of production,editing, shooting, all of it and,
ended up, interning at cable accessstation WKTV, Grand Rapids area and
then after I graduated I did somefreelance stuff in Grand Rapids and also
(02:17):
worked at WZZM as a morning cameraman.
So it was all, production,it was all fun, it was all.
something new every day and thenhappened to run into a few other
recent graduates who said theywere moving out to LA in a month.
And, I think jokingly asked,do I want to join them?
And I said, I think I do.
You know, I was kind of, the studio news.
situation had gotten a little, tedious,just, you know, every day it was kind
(02:39):
of, you're kind of doing the same thing.
So I wanted to kind of explore andgive it my shot and work in LA and
see if, it would work out, knowingthat I could always come back.
Are you still in contact with anyother alumni from your GV days?
Not so much.
My closest friends were not film studentsreally, the ones I keep in touch with
the most, but there are a few out herethat, I've stayed in touch with and
some that, actually I've met out hereare probably the ones I are more in
(03:02):
touch with, like Jeremy Howe, who'salso a writer and director on Young
Sheldon, who came up to me, I thinkseason one after early table read and
said, Hey, we went to the same college.
So, we're pretty close.
. There's a, another alum named TommyO'Rourke, who, is a writer director.
Who just had a screening of a short filmhe did a couple weeks ago, and, the reason
I know him is his wife was a hairdresseron Young Sheldon, so it's kind of like
(03:26):
weird, circles like that, but I got togo out and see his short film and hung
out afterwards and there are other GrandValley, people there, so it's, always
around even though, that core group thatI came out with have all kind of moved on.
There's quite a few of us out here now.
Can you briefly describe what it meansto be an AD on a television show?
.So, it's similar in TV and film,but, typically while you'll have
(03:49):
your assistant directing department.
A lot of times you'll have three ADs,you'll have, maybe even four or more
depending on the size of the show, butthe basic breakdown is, you know, you'll
have a first AD, in episodic television,sometimes you usually have two, so one is
prepping while the other one's shooting,and you kind of keep flopping, and you
each, you have a different director, andyou go back and forth, then you'll have
a key second the first AD, what I've beendoing, Largely is, get the script, break
(04:14):
it down into a schedule, what's the mostefficient way of shooting this, however
many page schedule to keep it on budget.
Then through the whole prepperiod is kind of Fact finding.
you're taking meetings, with the director,and different department heads like
prop meetings, wardrobe meetings, maybeyou're meeting with the stunt department
and doing stunt rehearsals and justreally trying to, get all the questions
(04:37):
answered before you start shooting.
Once you're in shooting mode, it's justexecuting everything, and obviously
surprises come up and things change and.
Weather happens and all this stuff thatyou have to adjust, but, you try to go
into production with knowing as much asyou can, and so the first AD is kind of
the right hand person of the, director,and then once you start shooting,
you're there trying to, make your day,you're the one saying rolling and, and,
(04:59):
sometimes cut, but you're bringing thecast in, you're anticipating what's
coming up next and just always trying to,Stay on target to make your days work.
I kind of think of it like,that mapping app called ways
where it's constantly rerouting.
It's like you, have the plan for yourday, but as things come in and new
info, comes in, you have to kind of.
reroute and make decisions to keep going.
(05:21):
and then your, key second AD is usuallythe one that is kind of prepping the next
day and the next couple of days work, justgetting ahead of things and dealing with
a lot of logistics of upcoming work andyour second seconds usually on set with
the first and then helping set backgroundand just helping the first make the day.
So that's kind of in a nutshell,the assistant directing department.
(05:43):
What would you say are some core skillsthat are essential to be a good AD?
The biggest thing is you've got to.
make decisions.
you've got to be able to,listen, and realize it's a,
collaborative, environment.
ultimately you're a problem solver, it'sputting pieces of the puzzle together,
whether it's the schedule, or, we'vegot weather coming in tomorrow, how
(06:03):
do we redo this, or in this day andage, an actor now has COVID and
can't work, what's our plan B?
So it's anticipating, both the good andthe bad and just being on top of, being
on top of a schedule and, just beingproactive and getting things done.
With television , you go througha bunch of different directors
depending on the episode.
Would you say how UAD changesbased on who the director is or
(06:26):
does it stay mainly the same?
well, I think, part of being the NAD ispart of it's your personality, so there's
only so much you change, but differentdirectors, do require different things.
All of them kind of work a little bitdifferently, especially when you're on
a series like I have where it's we'vehad multiple seasons and sometimes you
get a new director in who's completelynew to the show Or even film crew
(06:49):
after they work together a bit, theyhave kind of their own shorthand and
their own kind of way of doing things.
It all looks the same from an outsideobserver, but there are little
differences you know like whatthe showrunner is going to like.
And so I've had some directorsthat I'm literally in prep, I'm
acting out the scenes with them.
we go.
Set by set, and we're just like, thisperson enters here, and I'll literally
(07:11):
be reading the script with them,trying to figure out the blocking.
some are, kind of, just poke theirhead in, okay, get the lay of the land,
and they'll, do it more in their head.
I kind of feed off of them,and their personality, and
how, much they need from me.
but, in television, it's a bit of amoving train, you know, it's like that
episode, there's an air date, it's gonnahappen, and if the director, good or
(07:33):
bad, the show is gonna air, the restof the crew is gonna rise up and, get
the episode made, so if, they're notprepared, the DP, the first AD, the,
writer, I you kind of, fill the void.
it's a little bit different whenyou're talking with film or the
director has more of the, finalsay, you know, it's their project.
Whereas in television, it's the writer.
and the director is more of a hiredgun really to come in and as a guest,
(07:54):
basically, they're all sometimes youget a producer director who will direct
a good portion of the season, but isthere every day to help guide some
of the newer directors to the show,but largely, they're kind of guests.
You've both directed andAD'd throughout your career.
how would you say being the AD hasinformed how you direct or vice versa?
well, the one thing that it does isbecause, as an AD, I'm hyper aware
(08:19):
of, the schedule and kind of the paceof the show, so when I'm directing,
I'm able to kind of get my shot list.
I can kind of structurethem in a way that I can.
do it more efficiently.
So for example, Scene A, if I startin one direction and then turn around
looking the other direction, then I knowthat in scene B, I can start in that
(08:39):
same direction, or I know that I cancombine those scenes and rhyme together.
So we're, saving the lighting setups,stuff like that, I would do as an AD
anyways, and recommend that to a director.
but when I'm directing, I can kind ofjust take that element out, because
I just, I know that's going to bethe most efficient way to do things.
and then on the flip side of that beingin the director's chair, and especially
(08:59):
being in the editing room and seeingwhat stays in and what gets cut, you
have a bigger appreciation of, when youshould allow more time to a director
to finish a scene, or when you canbe like, I think we've got enough.
We can move on and, say it witha bit more authority, I because
I've been in that position andI'm not just the nervous A.
D.
who's looking at us watching.
We need to move on.
We need to move on.
I, get a sense of, you know,what we need and what we don't
(09:21):
need a little bit better.
You mentioned that when you moved toLA you started off as a PA and then
you kind of worked your way up toassistant directing and directing.
Can you kind of talk about, whatthe process of that was like?
it's a very, tricky process to, jointhe Director's Guild, It's almost
easier to join as a director, do anindependent film and become a signatory,
but to join and get in as an assistantdirector, there's a couple paths.
(09:45):
The one path is to try to get intothe trainee program, which is something
they do every year, based in LA andNew York, and they accept, 8, 10, 12
people to Become trainees and theyput them on film sets or TV sets, as
a trainee, which is basically kind oflike a PA position, slash AD position.
and then on the weekends aretaking seminars and learning,
(10:07):
different parts of the industry.
that's one way and it's.
a faster way to get in, but it'shard to get into the program itself.
And the other way to do it is through,PA ing, but the tricky thing is, if you
accumulate 600 days of PA ing, set PA,and it has to be on certain things too.
has to be kind of like a DGAtype of show, a film or TV show.
(10:28):
you can submit those, save all yourpaperwork, your call sheets, all that.
And you actually submit it tothe New York side of the guild,
the contract services there.
And if they approve it, then you can jointhe guild, but you get in as a second AD.
A commercial 2nd AD based in NewYork, which obviously if you live in L.
A.
It doesn't make a lot ofsense, but that's the way in.
so the next step is, forme, I was living in L.
(10:50):
A.
I could only Work on commercials orlow budget agreements where they
could kind of have a waiver for me.
everything else had tobe out of the state.
so either do 150 days.
As that AD, 75 of which have to becommercials, or you can just do 400
days, like a low budget film or out oftown movie or something like that, and
then you resubmit, to the New York side,and they'll bump you up to a, commercial
(11:13):
first AD, which then you can come on tothe Southern Cal list as a, Southern
California qualified, second AD.
I've already gotten way too in theweeds on this is very confusing.
happy to answer any listeners emailson how to further do this because it
is a very, very confusing process.
and that period fromwhen you submit your P.
A.
days to when you'reactually able to work in L.
A.
(11:34):
where a lot of you wantto end up being to work.
It can be a very long process.
For me, it was three yearsand that was pretty good.
I was basically doing one movie out oftown a year and, finding some commercial
work to kind of fill those additionalrequirements, but it's a tricky process.
Why did you decide to join the union?
I kind of got burned out a littlebit on PAing at some point.
and then, I got called to work on, TheAviator Martin Scorsese as a PA and I
(11:58):
was like, well, I can't turn that down.
I mean, it's Martin Scorsese andthen I end up working on Grand
(Torino), uh, no, it was a milliondollar baby with Clint Eastwood.
So again, I can't, turn that down.
And ultimately whathappened was some of the.
assistant directing department crews Iwas working with were, just fun to be
with and that they're still my friends.
We kind of all came up together.
And then one day I was closing in onthe amount of days I needed to join.
(12:20):
So I said, well, you know what noone's going to hire me because they
just think of me as a PA anyways,but I'm just going to submit it all.
So I'm eligible just in case I getthe random call that I can take the
work and make a little bit more money.
And then, basically I got a calland I've been working ever since.
So it worked out.
but it really became down to, I was justworking with, good people and having fun.
And even if the project itselfwas difficult, not a great
(12:42):
project, We ourselves made itfun and had a good time doing it.
So, that's what really kept me going.
What's it like being able tosee the work you help make?
Like on the big screen or on a television?
it is always fun.
I mean, that's part of the magic of it Iremember even some of the stuff I PA'd
on, you know, going to see it in themovie theaters and, it's pretty rewarding
(13:04):
and then Young Sheldon, which is theone thing about working on a television
show, especially one that has done quitewell, people know it, often when you're
working on a film, unless it's a Marvelmovie or something like it hasn't been
released, obviously, and people don'tknow what it is, you know, so it's kind
of like that you could be doing anything.
I remember when I First workedon the horror movie, The Ring.
(13:24):
I was like, yeah, I'm workingon a show called The Ring.
And people were like,oh, Lord of The Rings?
Like, not Lord of The Rings.
It's already out.
Like, I'm working on thisthing called The Ring.
And now people know it, but at the time.
So that's a little frustrating.
So you don't get that as much with TV.
Although now there's so many TVseries that it's hard to keep track.
. But it is nice to have thatrecognition of people actually
know what you're working on.
(13:45):
You talk a little bit about,your time on Young Sheldon and
how that's helped you grow.
I mean, this has been such a, wonderfulexperience We're in the middle of
season seven now, the final season.
I've been on it since episode two.
I didn't do the pilot, but I didthe, the second episode one.
So it's the longest I've worked atany job, I think, including when
(14:06):
I worked at Target in high school.
I've never been consistentlyemployed this long ' cause it's
essentially a freelancer's lifestyle.
it's been incredible it'sa show that my kids like.
My mom likes, it's such a, broad appealand the people I work with are just
fantastic and oftentimes I've experiencedafter a show goes on for so long people
(14:28):
can get complacent and people justare there, they want to collect a
paycheck and go home and, people canget grouchy and ready to move on to
the next thing, but, this cast and crewhas been so lovely and it's like, it's,
a second family, you know, it's like,especially, you know, this, takes place
surrounding this, kid and his family.
And, when we started the, twoyoungest ones were nine and, and
now one's, taking driver's ed.
(14:50):
They're one 16 and theother one's about to be 16.
So it's it's my second familythat I've grown up with.
So it's been special to work on as,Someone who likes, production also
just it's been on a human leveljust emotionally great just because
the people have become family.
So gonna be, a lot of tears shedin the last, couple episodes as we
film them and have to say goodbye.
(15:11):
are there any special considerationsor things you had to consider as an AD
of a show with young children on it?
For one thing, there are, legalrequirements in terms of hours they can
work, and different break times, andstill get schooling in, so I think when
we started, the kids were at an age, fromthe moment their call time to the moment
(15:31):
we wrapped was eight and a half hourstotal, then you subtract, 30, 45 minutes
for them to get, ready in hair and makeupand wardrobe, and then you subtract an
hour for lunch, and then you Supposedto get three hours of schooling a day.
They each had their own teacher.
you're not really left with muchactual time with them on set.
and in the early days,it was largely the show.
(15:53):
Revolved more around Sheldon.
So he is in a lot of scenes and since thenwe branched out and have B stories and
C stories, so we did a lot of tricks.
we'd have a stand in for him and rehearsewith the stand in while he's in school.
he'd come to set, we'd kindof show him the mark and the
marks where he needed to be.
If one of the kids were not onscreen, it wasn't their coverage.
They'd be in school.
(16:13):
We'd have a stand andreading off camera dialogue.
We toyed around with the photodouble, which we use a couple of
times, but it gets a little tricky.
it just wasn't quite workingout the way we, expected.
it really, it was those firstcouple of years, especially when the
hours were shorter, with them, itwas pretty intense, I will admit.
and there were times I kind ofcalled it, emergency lighting modes.
(16:34):
usually we'd come in at eight.
And so the kids would be done at five 30and we'd have to turn around and a piece
of coverage at like five 15 or five 20.
And that was just like tellingour DP emergency lighting mode.
We got to go and we'd get it done.
We'd get the shot and with secondsto spare and, make our day.
since then they've gottena little bit older.
So the time constraints have loosened alittle bit depending on their age, but,
(16:56):
the early days were tricky for sure.
This episode is brought to you by theChuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
upper level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who are working
on creative projects that support thenon profit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome the 2020 recipientof that fellowship, describes the
(17:17):
benefits of the support he received.
When going through this fellowship,there are three separate parts
of yourself that I think get toexperience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work with aclient on your own, independently,
out in the world, away fromthe classroom like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(17:40):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third one would be as acitizen, you know, you're not making
video for an entertainment value orfor some kind of commercial purpose.
It's for a nonprofit.
It's for a direct benefit in yourcommunity and being a citizen of that
community, understanding how you candirectly impact and improve it, um,
(18:03):
is a really valuable experience that Ithink the fellowship teaches you to be
as, as a student, as a filmmaker, andas a citizen, all three of those things
are directly a part of this processthat you get to learn and ask yourself.
How do I want to be seen and how doI want to act as these three roles?
For more information and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
(18:24):
Now back to the show.
Going back to something you've saidin the previous question, what do
you think the key is to not becomecomplacent when you're working
on such a long running project?
I mean, it's tough and I think it'sdepends on, what job you have in it.
I mean, as an AD for me, it's.
always something new.
I as the first AD, it's this nicebalance of you get half of your time
(18:48):
in the production office and scoutingand doing all that stuff for prep.
And then by the time that gets kindof boring and you're anxious, then
you're on the set and you're shooting.
And then by the time you're kindof tired of shooting, you're
back in the production office.
So , that's a nice balance that,It's pretty rare for a crew
member other than a first AD.
Sometimes you might have an alternatingDP if it's a big enough show.
(19:08):
Some shows have better hours,some have longer hours.
And it can be more, grueling experience.
So, it's hard to give any specific tips.
But, if you love what you do and you,especially if it's a good project
that you believe in, which, we didn'talways get to pick those or, know
if it's going to be a worthwhileproject or not, that always helps too.
Moving away for a bit from your,television work, you also directed,
(19:31):
produced, and wrote your ownindependent film, Own Worst Enemy.
Can you talk a little bitabout what that was like?
Yeah, that was great.
I was going into, I had a little hiatusbetween the second to last and last
season of Desperate Housewives, and Iwas going from a second AD, , bump up to
first AD that next year, we had about atwo month hiatus, which was kind of tough
(19:52):
for me as an AD to really jump into anynew job and then be able to break away.
So I, I told my wife, whydon't we just make a movie?
we were kind of on a short time frame wethought about it before I was in hiatus.
So, there was a script that my GrandValley roommate and friend Dan Peretti
and I had written years ago and we thatwas the the only one that we had sitting
around that was kind of low budget enoughthat we felt we could Get away with.
(20:15):
So my wife, Jessica and I did arewrite on that and polish that up.
And then basically, as I was finishingup season six of Desperate Housewives,
I was trying to put the pieces togetherfor this feature and trying to crew up.
And, my wife and I had produced, anindie film for another friend of ours a
couple years before, which had led intoanother indie feature that we produced.
(20:37):
for our friend Chris Cashman, calledCarts, and then so we kind of, that
was kind of like our little filmmakingclub that kept rolling, so we try
to bring a bunch of those folks back.
And then I was, in a good spot with likea lot of the, Desperate Housewives folks,
so they would, loan me gear and all that.
And Eva Longoria's makeup artistis like, I've got nothing going on.
I'll come do your makeup.
I was like, you're crazy, but okay.
(20:58):
I love it.
and so the hiatus, came about and we shotin like 13 days or something like that.
Just really run and gun.
it was, yeah, it was tiring.
Like, my name was on, the truck rental.
at the end of the day, I'm loadingthe truck and driving it home.
And, our oldest daughter, was,just, year and a half, two years.
Which, we were like, why didn'twe do this before we had kids?
This is crazy.
And then, you know, edited at homeand, and found some, some folks to,
(21:21):
help us in the post process, but itwas very cathartic, it was something
we'd wanted to do for a long time.
And, the fact that it was, we did it,we had a screening and played in some
small festivals and it's out thereon various random streaming services.
it was a great and project.
Do you have a favorite memoryfrom that whole process?
I'm trying to think, I think it was maybeeven day one or day two, we were filming
(21:42):
at our house at the time and we, hadkids and so I brought some other kids
over I just remember like my wife andI, on our couch watching video village
with our, little baby, holding her, I'mlike, the crew must think we're nuts.
Like we're at home,we're swaddling a baby.
They must think we're crazy and then,you know, I had this, vision that, the
shooting days would go really swimminglywell and we would, able to just, yeah,
(22:03):
we'll just wrap and we'll go pick,Eva up from daycare and clearly that
wasn't going to be the case and, justeverything that happens in production.
So I was like, mom, yougot to come out here.
I flew my mom out so she couldhelp babysit for a couple of weeks.
our crew was maybe 10 or 12 people,it becomes almost a family affair and
everyone's kind of helping you grow andget there and, and people are bringing
(22:24):
ideas and coming up with some amazingstuff that you're just asking people to
do stuff with very little money, justthe inventiveness of it is fantastic.
What's your biggest advice to someonewho wants to make an independent film,
while balancing that with all the othercrazy aspects of life you have to balance?
part of the thing that's Great nowadaysthe technology has become much more
(22:45):
accessible when I was at Grand ValleyIt was either, you're shooting on
really crappy video or very expensivefilm Now my iPhone is better quality
than the stuff I was filming there.
There's so much accessibility for thatI think even just Getting out there
and shooting short films and then justdoing whatever you can, to kind of flex
that muscle because at the end of theday, it's a craft and you just have
(23:06):
to keep working at it and, following itthrough the post and kind of seeing it.
It's all a learning process that.
you can read about But once yougo through it and you kind of see
how that whole process works andyou just keep building on that.
For me, it's, try to write a script that,you can accomplish, on a low budget,
if you don't have the money coming in,which nobody really does, because you
can end up spending a lot of time justchasing down the money, For me, with that
(23:29):
film, it's something that we can shoot.
We don't need, we have a few set piecesin that, but it's largely in our friends
homes, our home and, stuff like that.
Just stuff that we can accomplish,fairly cheaply and easily.
What are some of the maindifferences working on a studio
set versus an independent film set?
I was joking the other day, I sawsomething online People walking, bearing
some equipment saying hot points,points, points, and I feel like you
(23:52):
only hear that on low budget sets.
I think a professional set, someonealways will just walk in front
and is like, Hey, we got somethingheavy coming through here, just
watch out, you know, and there'snot a lot of screaming like that.
So, that's kind of the joke answer of it.
part of the thing with studio sets,if you have that money, I mean,
a I'm always amazed at how few.
Fast we can do things, but then Irealize, you know, we have entire
(24:12):
rigging grip and electric crewthat are pre rigging everything.
So by the time like we as the shootingcrew walk on the set, they're not laying
cables and doing all these things thatyou have to do on an independent film.
once you wrap, those guys are taking5, 10 minutes, maybe loading the truck
if they're on stage, you're kind ofwalking away and they're going home
(24:33):
and, you're largely on location.
So you're wrapping out of there,you're wrapping to the trucks,
you're coiling cables, you'redoing all it's just, a lot more.
Time, to spend and people are in overtime.
So, your producer's wanting youto wrap early because they have
hour and a half to wrap to thetrucks and get out of there, etc.
it's just those type of things that youcome up against, in independent work
(24:54):
as opposed to bigger studio films.
I find your first part of that answervery funny because in my lighting class
last week, we were saying points toeach other as we moved stuff around.
I've heard it coming up, and stuff.
I was reflecting on them.
Like, you don't really hear that onany of the sets I've been on recently.
it's always been on these indie films.
That's interesting.
So you have achieved somethingthat so many of us dream of.
(25:16):
You have moved to LA andyou're working consistently.
So what would your advice to be tosomeone who wants to move to LA?
Unfortunately I'm old enoughnow that I can say things were
different when I moved out here.
the biggest.
challenge I see now isjust it's so expensive.
when I moved here in 2000, it wasexpensive in terms of coming from
Michigan, but it was still reasonable.
(25:39):
my first apartment, we got a fourbedroom, two bath and the four of us
were all from Grand Valley and we eachpaid 350 a month, which was amazing.
So I think unless you know somebody outhere or you have a trust fund, you really
need to find somebody to room with oneor two people, just to make the housing,
largely cause it's a freelance situation.
(25:59):
You never quite know where yournext paychecks coming from.
on top of that, there's a bit of aculture shock of just coming to a big.
City like this.
That's much differentthan, anywhere in Michigan.
so that doesn't appeal to everybody.
the first year I was out here, I gothired on a few things, but a large
amount of it was like day playing stuff.
I would get called for a coupleof days here and a day there.
(26:22):
And it was, exciting because I'm goingto different films and stuff and kind
of frustrating because it was just kindof just so piecemeal But at the end
of you know, those first couple yearsuntil I really got staffed on a film It
was like, oh, okay, but I met so manypeople and that's where the calls started
coming in because especially the P.
A.
Positions that you're one entrylevel position that's not union,
(26:46):
so it's easier one to get into.
And a lot of times you're on a movie,Oh, we need a couple more PAs that day.
Cause we got more extras or whatever,who do you know who's not working?
So, a lot of times it's like, Oh,I just met this guy, Mike on
this, thing I did last week.
I'll call him.
And the next thing you know, you'reworking on that set and you're
meeting that staff and those people.
So that's kind of like where a lot ofthe jobs come in and putting yourself out
(27:07):
there and saying yes to opportunities,
what advice do you have for studentswho want to direct or AD in the future?
for directing, just keep shooting stuff.
I would say, even if you're not awriter, find someone who is a writer.
And even if it's a short, shoot it.
I would, look beyond just yourkind of peer group for actors
and try to find maybe some local.
(27:29):
theater actors or something in the,area to work with just to kind of get
out of your comfort zone a little bit.
a lot of people recommend taking asa director, just taking an acting
class just to kind of see the otherside of it, which is good advice.
I've never done it, but Ithink it would be helpful.
because you get directors of all typeswith some that are like very techie
(27:50):
and into the camera work and all that.
And some that just Maybe come from atheater background or loved working with
cast and actors and not so savvy with acamera That's my advice for directors
ad'ing.
It's kind of in many ways a thanklessposition I mean, no one comes to film
school saying I want to be a first A.D.
Typically, I'd even know what onewas when I started Grand Valley.
(28:11):
So I think There's always peopleshooting films and someone needs to
schedule them and take on some of thatresponsibility from the director in terms
of when did the cast show up and howlong before we need them in this scene?
so I don't think there's any,way you wouldn't be able to, at
least volunteer as an AD, getsome experience under your belt.
(28:31):
and, there's not as bigof a non union world.
Out here, much, anymore There usedto be kind of like, I did some non
union camera AC work and stuff likethat, but it's now there's so many low
budget agreements with the unions tokeep their folks employed, which makes
sense, but that used to be kind of away into kind of a breeding ground in
the industry as well, just cutting yourteeth on some of these non union films.
(28:54):
There's still like a lot of horrorfilms like that that are non union.
Out of curiosity, what was it thatmade you realize, like, Oh, being
an AD is maybe the role for me?
Because I know you mentioned thatwasn't something you even knew
existed when you first started.
Well, with every level when youPA, you're part of the assistant
directing department, so youget a little bit of experience.
I mean a lot of the early jobs werelike You'd be stuck in extras holding,
(29:17):
getting the extras ready, and signedin and signed out, and through the
lunch line and all that stuff, andthat's not really fascinating work.
But then the closer I got to actual, ADwork, and like, kind of the scheduling,
and then even just setting the background,and on set, the extras, and giving
them background stories, and stuff toreally flesh out the scene, that helped.
(29:37):
You know, that's a bit ofthe creative part of the job.
And then getting into, the schedulingand even just doing the call sheet as
a second AD, that all, appealed to, aproblem solving, part of my brain that I
enjoy, you know, just fixing the puzzle.
and even now, I'll get some,it's dependent on the script.
Some scripts, I break it down, and it allkind of falls into place rather naturally.
(29:58):
And some, they're just, very trickyin how to schedule it the best way,
You can really schedule yourselfinto some really bad days on set.
One of the first jobs I did is thefirst AD on Desperate Housewives.
I was very confident that we couldmake this one location day within
our allotted time, and of coursewe had a couple technical delays.
But we ended up going really, really late.
And I remember looking at the producer andsaying, well, how many more days like this
(30:21):
do I have before I'm no longer the first?
And he said, not too many.
So, I quickly learned how important,that scheduling process is.
triggers some part of my brain that Ienjoy, that problem solving aspect of it.
My final question for you is, whatis some advice you wish you had
known when you were younger?
be patient, you know, your, yourcareer isn't made overnight.
(30:42):
I think I came out here with a headfull of steam thinking I would,
you know, be doing great thingsearlier on and it was all fine.
but had I known, it's going totake a little time to like really,
To kind of be comfortable where I'mat, and that would have been nice.
I think be prepared to workhard and put in long hours.
production can be very, gruelingat times, depending on the show.
(31:03):
I've done movies that are, dida movie that was a party, a teen
party movie, and it was like sixweeks of night work on location.
So it was sleeping allday, working all night.
And, it's like there's your life for thosesix weeks, and then sometimes, I would
say not getting a job can be a good thing.
I mean, you're going to go on a lot ofinterviews, and sometimes oftentimes
you won't, get a job for whateverreason, and, sometimes that, in
(31:27):
hindsight, that'll be the better.
Way to have gone about it and just on thenote of, , getting jobs, and interviewing.
It's the two biggest things is one,just have a very clean resume, have a
very readable resume and to always justresearch who you're going in to meet.
If you're meeting with some AD'sif you're meeting with a producer,
production company, just, quick Googlesearch, see what else they've worked on.
(31:51):
just don't go in kind of blind.
just do your researchbefore you go into that.
It's even that someone now who hires ADsand PAs, I'm amazed at how many people.
Come into the interview and just kind ofwaltz in and just don't know a thing, you
know, especially on something like this,where a Young Sheldon, a popular show.
We've been on the air for years.
I'm not expecting everyone to see everyepisode, but, you know, watch, a clip
(32:13):
or two, you know, get to know the showa little bit before you come in to
interview to be on the show, you know?
So do your research.
It's my other tip.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
(32:34):
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
The Podcast.
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Welcome back to Alumni Live, the podcast.
I'm Caitlyn Shaw, and I'm a second yearfilm and video major with an interest
in directing, which is why I am veryexcited to be speaking with today's
(00:23):
guest, Mike Judd, who is currentlyworking as a director and AD in LA.
Mike has worked on a number ofprojects, both film and television,
ranging from films like EvanAlmighty and Gran Torino, to the
TV shows New Girl and Young Sheldon.
He also wrote, directed, and producedhis independent film, Own Worst Enemy.
Welcome, Mike.
Thank you.
Good to be here.
Can you just give us a briefoverview of what you do and kind of
(00:46):
the history of how you got there?
I will try to be brief.
Sure.
The last, 12 years I've been workingprimarily as a first assistant director.
Largely on television series, butthe occasional indie feature or pilot
in between, some of those seasons.
And then the the last three, threeand a half years I've also been
directing a bit on Young Sheldon whichis the show I've currently been on.
(01:07):
in general, kind of the broad viewof it, when I moved out to LA.
in about, 2000, late2000, started doing P.
A.
work and some non union camera A.
C.
work.
The PA work was on largely,like kind of studio films.
I was doing like Seabiscuitand The Ring and, Terminator 3.
So it was, you know, being able tobe on some very large, film sets.
And then after a while, I was able, I hadenough days of being a PA that I could
(01:31):
submit that to the Director's Guild andjoin the DGA as a assistant director.
And then it just kind of,kept going from there.
Did you always know you wantedto work in film and television?
I wouldn't say always.
I didn't, when I came to Grand Valley, Ididn't even really know what I was going
to get myself into, but my roommate at thetime and friend, Dan Peretti and I both.
Kind of were film buffs and thought thatwe should start writing screenplays.
(01:54):
And somebody introduced us to thefilm program and gave us a tour.
And then in order to take thescreenwriting class, which we
wanted to do, we had to takethe beginning production class.
And by that point I was hooked.
And I liked all aspects of production,editing, shooting, all of it and,
ended up, interning at cable accessstation WKTV, Grand Rapids area and
then after I graduated I did somefreelance stuff in Grand Rapids and also
(02:17):
worked at WZZM as a morning cameraman.
So it was all, production,it was all fun, it was all.
something new every day and thenhappened to run into a few other
recent graduates who said theywere moving out to LA in a month.
And, I think jokingly asked,do I want to join them?
And I said, I think I do.
You know, I was kind of, the studio news.
situation had gotten a little, tedious,just, you know, every day it was kind
(02:39):
of, you're kind of doing the same thing.
So I wanted to kind of explore andgive it my shot and work in LA and
see if, it would work out, knowingthat I could always come back.
Are you still in contact with anyother alumni from your GV days?
Not so much.
My closest friends were not film studentsreally, the ones I keep in touch with
the most, but there are a few out herethat, I've stayed in touch with and
some that, actually I've met out hereare probably the ones I are more in
(03:02):
touch with, like Jeremy Howe, who'salso a writer and director on Young
Sheldon, who came up to me, I thinkseason one after early table read and
said, Hey, we went to the same college.
So, we're pretty close.
. There's a, another alum named TommyO'Rourke, who, is a writer director.
Who just had a screening of a short filmhe did a couple weeks ago, and, the reason
I know him is his wife was a hairdresseron Young Sheldon, so it's kind of like
(03:26):
weird, circles like that, but I got togo out and see his short film and hung
out afterwards and there are other GrandValley, people there, so it's, always
around even though, that core group thatI came out with have all kind of moved on.
There's quite a few of us out here now.
Can you briefly describe what it meansto be an AD on a television show?
.So, it's similar in TV and film,but, typically while you'll have
(03:49):
your assistant directing department.
A lot of times you'll have three ADs,you'll have, maybe even four or more
depending on the size of the show, butthe basic breakdown is, you know, you'll
have a first AD, in episodic television,sometimes you usually have two, so one is
prepping while the other one's shooting,and you kind of keep flopping, and you
each, you have a different director, andyou go back and forth, then you'll have
a key second the first AD, what I've beendoing, Largely is, get the script, break
(04:14):
it down into a schedule, what's the mostefficient way of shooting this, however
many page schedule to keep it on budget.
Then through the whole prepperiod is kind of Fact finding.
you're taking meetings, with the director,and different department heads like
prop meetings, wardrobe meetings, maybeyou're meeting with the stunt department
and doing stunt rehearsals and justreally trying to, get all the questions
(04:37):
answered before you start shooting.
Once you're in shooting mode, it's justexecuting everything, and obviously
surprises come up and things change and.
Weather happens and all this stuff thatyou have to adjust, but, you try to go
into production with knowing as much asyou can, and so the first AD is kind of
the right hand person of the, director,and then once you start shooting,
you're there trying to, make your day,you're the one saying rolling and, and,
(04:59):
sometimes cut, but you're bringing thecast in, you're anticipating what's
coming up next and just always trying to,Stay on target to make your days work.
I kind of think of it like,that mapping app called ways
where it's constantly rerouting.
It's like you, have the plan for yourday, but as things come in and new
info, comes in, you have to kind of.
reroute and make decisions to keep going.
(05:21):
and then your, key second AD is usuallythe one that is kind of prepping the next
day and the next couple of days work, justgetting ahead of things and dealing with
a lot of logistics of upcoming work andyour second seconds usually on set with
the first and then helping set backgroundand just helping the first make the day.
So that's kind of in a nutshell,the assistant directing department.
(05:43):
What would you say are some core skillsthat are essential to be a good AD?
The biggest thing is you've got to.
make decisions.
you've got to be able to,listen, and realize it's a,
collaborative, environment.
ultimately you're a problem solver, it'sputting pieces of the puzzle together,
whether it's the schedule, or, we'vegot weather coming in tomorrow, how
(06:03):
do we redo this, or in this day andage, an actor now has COVID and
can't work, what's our plan B?
So it's anticipating, both the good andthe bad and just being on top of, being
on top of a schedule and, just beingproactive and getting things done.
With television , you go througha bunch of different directors
depending on the episode.
Would you say how UAD changesbased on who the director is or
(06:26):
does it stay mainly the same?
well, I think, part of being the NAD ispart of it's your personality, so there's
only so much you change, but differentdirectors, do require different things.
All of them kind of work a little bitdifferently, especially when you're on
a series like I have where it's we'vehad multiple seasons and sometimes you
get a new director in who's completelynew to the show Or even film crew
(06:49):
after they work together a bit, theyhave kind of their own shorthand and
their own kind of way of doing things.
It all looks the same from an outsideobserver, but there are little
differences you know like whatthe showrunner is going to like.
And so I've had some directorsthat I'm literally in prep, I'm
acting out the scenes with them.
we go.
Set by set, and we're just like, thisperson enters here, and I'll literally
(07:11):
be reading the script with them,trying to figure out the blocking.
some are, kind of, just poke theirhead in, okay, get the lay of the land,
and they'll, do it more in their head.
I kind of feed off of them,and their personality, and
how, much they need from me.
but, in television, it's a bit of amoving train, you know, it's like that
episode, there's an air date, it's gonnahappen, and if the director, good or
(07:33):
bad, the show is gonna air, the restof the crew is gonna rise up and, get
the episode made, so if, they're notprepared, the DP, the first AD, the,
writer, I you kind of, fill the void.
it's a little bit different whenyou're talking with film or the
director has more of the, finalsay, you know, it's their project.
Whereas in television, it's the writer.
and the director is more of a hiredgun really to come in and as a guest,
(07:54):
basically, they're all sometimes youget a producer director who will direct
a good portion of the season, but isthere every day to help guide some
of the newer directors to the show,but largely, they're kind of guests.
You've both directed andAD'd throughout your career.
how would you say being the AD hasinformed how you direct or vice versa?
well, the one thing that it does isbecause, as an AD, I'm hyper aware
(08:19):
of, the schedule and kind of the paceof the show, so when I'm directing,
I'm able to kind of get my shot list.
I can kind of structurethem in a way that I can.
do it more efficiently.
So for example, Scene A, if I startin one direction and then turn around
looking the other direction, then I knowthat in scene B, I can start in that
(08:39):
same direction, or I know that I cancombine those scenes and rhyme together.
So we're, saving the lighting setups,stuff like that, I would do as an AD
anyways, and recommend that to a director.
but when I'm directing, I can kind ofjust take that element out, because
I just, I know that's going to bethe most efficient way to do things.
and then on the flip side of that beingin the director's chair, and especially
(08:59):
being in the editing room and seeingwhat stays in and what gets cut, you
have a bigger appreciation of, when youshould allow more time to a director
to finish a scene, or when you canbe like, I think we've got enough.
We can move on and, say it witha bit more authority, I because
I've been in that position andI'm not just the nervous A.
D.
who's looking at us watching.
We need to move on.
We need to move on.
I, get a sense of, you know,what we need and what we don't
(09:21):
need a little bit better.
You mentioned that when you moved toLA you started off as a PA and then
you kind of worked your way up toassistant directing and directing.
Can you kind of talk about, whatthe process of that was like?
it's a very, tricky process to, jointhe Director's Guild, It's almost
easier to join as a director, do anindependent film and become a signatory,
but to join and get in as an assistantdirector, there's a couple paths.
(09:45):
The one path is to try to get intothe trainee program, which is something
they do every year, based in LA andNew York, and they accept, 8, 10, 12
people to Become trainees and theyput them on film sets or TV sets, as
a trainee, which is basically kind oflike a PA position, slash AD position.
and then on the weekends aretaking seminars and learning,
(10:07):
different parts of the industry.
that's one way and it's.
a faster way to get in, but it'shard to get into the program itself.
And the other way to do it is through,PA ing, but the tricky thing is, if you
accumulate 600 days of PA ing, set PA,and it has to be on certain things too.
has to be kind of like a DGAtype of show, a film or TV show.
(10:28):
you can submit those, save all yourpaperwork, your call sheets, all that.
And you actually submit it tothe New York side of the guild,
the contract services there.
And if they approve it, then you can jointhe guild, but you get in as a second AD.
A commercial 2nd AD based in NewYork, which obviously if you live in L.
A.
It doesn't make a lot ofsense, but that's the way in.
so the next step is, forme, I was living in L.
(10:50):
A.
I could only Work on commercials orlow budget agreements where they
could kind of have a waiver for me.
everything else had tobe out of the state.
so either do 150 days.
As that AD, 75 of which have to becommercials, or you can just do 400
days, like a low budget film or out oftown movie or something like that, and
then you resubmit, to the New York side,and they'll bump you up to a, commercial
(11:13):
first AD, which then you can come on tothe Southern Cal list as a, Southern
California qualified, second AD.
I've already gotten way too in theweeds on this is very confusing.
happy to answer any listeners emailson how to further do this because it
is a very, very confusing process.
and that period fromwhen you submit your P.
A.
days to when you'reactually able to work in L.
A.
(11:34):
where a lot of you wantto end up being to work.
It can be a very long process.
For me, it was three yearsand that was pretty good.
I was basically doing one movie out oftown a year and, finding some commercial
work to kind of fill those additionalrequirements, but it's a tricky process.
Why did you decide to join the union?
I kind of got burned out a littlebit on PAing at some point.
and then, I got called to work on, TheAviator Martin Scorsese as a PA and I
(11:58):
was like, well, I can't turn that down.
I mean, it's Martin Scorsese andthen I end up working on Grand
(Torino), uh, no, it was a milliondollar baby with Clint Eastwood.
So again, I can't, turn that down.
And ultimately whathappened was some of the.
assistant directing department crews Iwas working with were, just fun to be
with and that they're still my friends.
We kind of all came up together.
And then one day I was closing in onthe amount of days I needed to join.
(12:20):
So I said, well, you know what noone's going to hire me because they
just think of me as a PA anyways,but I'm just going to submit it all.
So I'm eligible just in case I getthe random call that I can take the
work and make a little bit more money.
And then, basically I got a calland I've been working ever since.
So it worked out.
but it really became down to, I was justworking with, good people and having fun.
And even if the project itselfwas difficult, not a great
(12:42):
project, We ourselves made itfun and had a good time doing it.
So, that's what really kept me going.
What's it like being able tosee the work you help make?
Like on the big screen or on a television?
it is always fun.
I mean, that's part of the magic of it Iremember even some of the stuff I PA'd
on, you know, going to see it in themovie theaters and, it's pretty rewarding
(13:04):
and then Young Sheldon, which is theone thing about working on a television
show, especially one that has done quitewell, people know it, often when you're
working on a film, unless it's a Marvelmovie or something like it hasn't been
released, obviously, and people don'tknow what it is, you know, so it's kind
of like that you could be doing anything.
I remember when I First workedon the horror movie, The Ring.
(13:24):
I was like, yeah, I'm workingon a show called The Ring.
And people were like,oh, Lord of The Rings?
Like, not Lord of The Rings.
It's already out.
Like, I'm working on thisthing called The Ring.
And now people know it, but at the time.
So that's a little frustrating.
So you don't get that as much with TV.
Although now there's so many TVseries that it's hard to keep track.
. But it is nice to have thatrecognition of people actually
know what you're working on.
(13:45):
You talk a little bit about,your time on Young Sheldon and
how that's helped you grow.
I mean, this has been such a, wonderfulexperience We're in the middle of
season seven now, the final season.
I've been on it since episode two.
I didn't do the pilot, but I didthe, the second episode one.
So it's the longest I've worked atany job, I think, including when
(14:06):
I worked at Target in high school.
I've never been consistentlyemployed this long ' cause it's
essentially a freelancer's lifestyle.
it's been incredible it'sa show that my kids like.
My mom likes, it's such a, broad appealand the people I work with are just
fantastic and oftentimes I've experiencedafter a show goes on for so long people
(14:28):
can get complacent and people justare there, they want to collect a
paycheck and go home and, people canget grouchy and ready to move on to
the next thing, but, this cast and crewhas been so lovely and it's like, it's,
a second family, you know, it's like,especially, you know, this, takes place
surrounding this, kid and his family.
And, when we started the, twoyoungest ones were nine and, and
now one's, taking driver's ed.
(14:50):
They're one 16 and theother one's about to be 16.
So it's it's my second familythat I've grown up with.
So it's been special to work on as,Someone who likes, production also
just it's been on a human leveljust emotionally great just because
the people have become family.
So gonna be, a lot of tears shedin the last, couple episodes as we
film them and have to say goodbye.
(15:11):
are there any special considerationsor things you had to consider as an AD
of a show with young children on it?
For one thing, there are, legalrequirements in terms of hours they can
work, and different break times, andstill get schooling in, so I think when
we started, the kids were at an age, fromthe moment their call time to the moment
(15:31):
we wrapped was eight and a half hourstotal, then you subtract, 30, 45 minutes
for them to get, ready in hair and makeupand wardrobe, and then you subtract an
hour for lunch, and then you Supposedto get three hours of schooling a day.
They each had their own teacher.
you're not really left with muchactual time with them on set.
and in the early days,it was largely the show.
(15:53):
Revolved more around Sheldon.
So he is in a lot of scenes and since thenwe branched out and have B stories and
C stories, so we did a lot of tricks.
we'd have a stand in for him and rehearsewith the stand in while he's in school.
he'd come to set, we'd kindof show him the mark and the
marks where he needed to be.
If one of the kids were not onscreen, it wasn't their coverage.
They'd be in school.
(16:13):
We'd have a stand andreading off camera dialogue.
We toyed around with the photodouble, which we use a couple of
times, but it gets a little tricky.
it just wasn't quite workingout the way we, expected.
it really, it was those firstcouple of years, especially when the
hours were shorter, with them, itwas pretty intense, I will admit.
and there were times I kind ofcalled it, emergency lighting modes.
(16:34):
usually we'd come in at eight.
And so the kids would be done at five 30and we'd have to turn around and a piece
of coverage at like five 15 or five 20.
And that was just like tellingour DP emergency lighting mode.
We got to go and we'd get it done.
We'd get the shot and with secondsto spare and, make our day.
since then they've gottena little bit older.
So the time constraints have loosened alittle bit depending on their age, but,
(16:56):
the early days were tricky for sure.
This episode is brought to you by theChuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
upper level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who are working
on creative projects that support thenon profit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome the 2020 recipientof that fellowship, describes the
(17:17):
benefits of the support he received.
When going through this fellowship,there are three separate parts
of yourself that I think get toexperience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work with aclient on your own, independently,
out in the world, away fromthe classroom like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(17:40):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third one would be as acitizen, you know, you're not making
video for an entertainment value orfor some kind of commercial purpose.
It's for a nonprofit.
It's for a direct benefit in yourcommunity and being a citizen of that
community, understanding how you candirectly impact and improve it, um,
(18:03):
is a really valuable experience that Ithink the fellowship teaches you to be
as, as a student, as a filmmaker, andas a citizen, all three of those things
are directly a part of this processthat you get to learn and ask yourself.
How do I want to be seen and how doI want to act as these three roles?
For more information and todonate to the scholarship, visit
the link in the description.
(18:24):
Now back to the show.
Going back to something you've saidin the previous question, what do
you think the key is to not becomecomplacent when you're working
on such a long running project?
I mean, it's tough and I think it'sdepends on, what job you have in it.
I mean, as an AD for me, it's.
always something new.
I as the first AD, it's this nicebalance of you get half of your time
(18:48):
in the production office and scoutingand doing all that stuff for prep.
And then by the time that gets kindof boring and you're anxious, then
you're on the set and you're shooting.
And then by the time you're kindof tired of shooting, you're
back in the production office.
So , that's a nice balance that,It's pretty rare for a crew
member other than a first AD.
Sometimes you might have an alternatingDP if it's a big enough show.
(19:08):
Some shows have better hours,some have longer hours.
And it can be more, grueling experience.
So, it's hard to give any specific tips.
But, if you love what you do and you,especially if it's a good project
that you believe in, which, we didn'talways get to pick those or, know
if it's going to be a worthwhileproject or not, that always helps too.
Moving away for a bit from your,television work, you also directed,
(19:31):
produced, and wrote your ownindependent film, Own Worst Enemy.
Can you talk a little bitabout what that was like?
Yeah, that was great.
I was going into, I had a little hiatusbetween the second to last and last
season of Desperate Housewives, and Iwas going from a second AD, , bump up to
first AD that next year, we had about atwo month hiatus, which was kind of tough
(19:52):
for me as an AD to really jump into anynew job and then be able to break away.
So I, I told my wife, whydon't we just make a movie?
we were kind of on a short time frame wethought about it before I was in hiatus.
So, there was a script that my GrandValley roommate and friend Dan Peretti
and I had written years ago and we thatwas the the only one that we had sitting
around that was kind of low budget enoughthat we felt we could Get away with.
(20:15):
So my wife, Jessica and I did arewrite on that and polish that up.
And then basically, as I was finishingup season six of Desperate Housewives,
I was trying to put the pieces togetherfor this feature and trying to crew up.
And, my wife and I had produced, anindie film for another friend of ours a
couple years before, which had led intoanother indie feature that we produced.
(20:37):
for our friend Chris Cashman, calledCarts, and then so we kind of, that
was kind of like our little filmmakingclub that kept rolling, so we try
to bring a bunch of those folks back.
And then I was, in a good spot with likea lot of the, Desperate Housewives folks,
so they would, loan me gear and all that.
And Eva Longoria's makeup artistis like, I've got nothing going on.
I'll come do your makeup.
I was like, you're crazy, but okay.
(20:58):
I love it.
and so the hiatus, came about and we shotin like 13 days or something like that.
Just really run and gun.
it was, yeah, it was tiring.
Like, my name was on, the truck rental.
at the end of the day, I'm loadingthe truck and driving it home.
And, our oldest daughter, was,just, year and a half, two years.
Which, we were like, why didn'twe do this before we had kids?
This is crazy.
And then, you know, edited at homeand, and found some, some folks to,
(21:21):
help us in the post process, but itwas very cathartic, it was something
we'd wanted to do for a long time.
And, the fact that it was, we did it,we had a screening and played in some
small festivals and it's out thereon various random streaming services.
it was a great and project.
Do you have a favorite memoryfrom that whole process?
I'm trying to think, I think it was maybeeven day one or day two, we were filming
(21:42):
at our house at the time and we, hadkids and so I brought some other kids
over I just remember like my wife andI, on our couch watching video village
with our, little baby, holding her, I'mlike, the crew must think we're nuts.
Like we're at home,we're swaddling a baby.
They must think we're crazy and then,you know, I had this, vision that, the
shooting days would go really swimminglywell and we would, able to just, yeah,
(22:03):
we'll just wrap and we'll go pick,Eva up from daycare and clearly that
wasn't going to be the case and, justeverything that happens in production.
So I was like, mom, yougot to come out here.
I flew my mom out so she couldhelp babysit for a couple of weeks.
our crew was maybe 10 or 12 people,it becomes almost a family affair and
everyone's kind of helping you grow andget there and, and people are bringing
(22:24):
ideas and coming up with some amazingstuff that you're just asking people to
do stuff with very little money, justthe inventiveness of it is fantastic.
What's your biggest advice to someonewho wants to make an independent film,
while balancing that with all the othercrazy aspects of life you have to balance?
part of the thing that's Great nowadaysthe technology has become much more
(22:45):
accessible when I was at Grand ValleyIt was either, you're shooting on
really crappy video or very expensivefilm Now my iPhone is better quality
than the stuff I was filming there.
There's so much accessibility for thatI think even just Getting out there
and shooting short films and then justdoing whatever you can, to kind of flex
that muscle because at the end of theday, it's a craft and you just have
(23:06):
to keep working at it and, following itthrough the post and kind of seeing it.
It's all a learning process that.
you can read about But once yougo through it and you kind of see
how that whole process works andyou just keep building on that.
For me, it's, try to write a script that,you can accomplish, on a low budget,
if you don't have the money coming in,which nobody really does, because you
can end up spending a lot of time justchasing down the money, For me, with that
(23:29):
film, it's something that we can shoot.
We don't need, we have a few set piecesin that, but it's largely in our friends
homes, our home and, stuff like that.
Just stuff that we can accomplish,fairly cheaply and easily.
What are some of the maindifferences working on a studio
set versus an independent film set?
I was joking the other day, I sawsomething online People walking, bearing
some equipment saying hot points,points, points, and I feel like you
(23:52):
only hear that on low budget sets.
I think a professional set, someonealways will just walk in front
and is like, Hey, we got somethingheavy coming through here, just
watch out, you know, and there'snot a lot of screaming like that.
So, that's kind of the joke answer of it.
part of the thing with studio sets,if you have that money, I mean,
a I'm always amazed at how few.
Fast we can do things, but then Irealize, you know, we have entire
(24:12):
rigging grip and electric crewthat are pre rigging everything.
So by the time like we as the shootingcrew walk on the set, they're not laying
cables and doing all these things thatyou have to do on an independent film.
once you wrap, those guys are taking5, 10 minutes, maybe loading the truck
if they're on stage, you're kind ofwalking away and they're going home
(24:33):
and, you're largely on location.
So you're wrapping out of there,you're wrapping to the trucks,
you're coiling cables, you'redoing all it's just, a lot more.
Time, to spend and people are in overtime.
So, your producer's wanting youto wrap early because they have
hour and a half to wrap to thetrucks and get out of there, etc.
it's just those type of things that youcome up against, in independent work
(24:54):
as opposed to bigger studio films.
I find your first part of that answervery funny because in my lighting class
last week, we were saying points toeach other as we moved stuff around.
I've heard it coming up, and stuff.
I was reflecting on them.
Like, you don't really hear that onany of the sets I've been on recently.
it's always been on these indie films.
That's interesting.
So you have achieved somethingthat so many of us dream of.
(25:16):
You have moved to LA andyou're working consistently.
So what would your advice to be tosomeone who wants to move to LA?
Unfortunately I'm old enoughnow that I can say things were
different when I moved out here.
the biggest.
challenge I see now isjust it's so expensive.
when I moved here in 2000, it wasexpensive in terms of coming from
Michigan, but it was still reasonable.
(25:39):
my first apartment, we got a fourbedroom, two bath and the four of us
were all from Grand Valley and we eachpaid 350 a month, which was amazing.
So I think unless you know somebody outhere or you have a trust fund, you really
need to find somebody to room with oneor two people, just to make the housing,
largely cause it's a freelance situation.
(25:59):
You never quite know where yournext paychecks coming from.
on top of that, there's a bit of aculture shock of just coming to a big.
City like this.
That's much differentthan, anywhere in Michigan.
so that doesn't appeal to everybody.
the first year I was out here, I gothired on a few things, but a large
amount of it was like day playing stuff.
I would get called for a coupleof days here and a day there.
(26:22):
And it was, exciting because I'm goingto different films and stuff and kind
of frustrating because it was just kindof just so piecemeal But at the end
of you know, those first couple yearsuntil I really got staffed on a film It
was like, oh, okay, but I met so manypeople and that's where the calls started
coming in because especially the P.
A.
Positions that you're one entrylevel position that's not union,
(26:46):
so it's easier one to get into.
And a lot of times you're on a movie,Oh, we need a couple more PAs that day.
Cause we got more extras or whatever,who do you know who's not working?
So, a lot of times it's like, Oh,I just met this guy, Mike on
this, thing I did last week.
I'll call him.
And the next thing you know, you'reworking on that set and you're
meeting that staff and those people.
So that's kind of like where a lot ofthe jobs come in and putting yourself out
(27:07):
there and saying yes to opportunities,
what advice do you have for studentswho want to direct or AD in the future?
for directing, just keep shooting stuff.
I would say, even if you're not awriter, find someone who is a writer.
And even if it's a short, shoot it.
I would, look beyond just yourkind of peer group for actors
and try to find maybe some local.
(27:29):
theater actors or something in the,area to work with just to kind of get
out of your comfort zone a little bit.
a lot of people recommend taking asa director, just taking an acting
class just to kind of see the otherside of it, which is good advice.
I've never done it, but Ithink it would be helpful.
because you get directors of all typeswith some that are like very techie
(27:50):
and into the camera work and all that.
And some that just Maybe come from atheater background or loved working with
cast and actors and not so savvy with acamera That's my advice for directors
ad'ing.
It's kind of in many ways a thanklessposition I mean, no one comes to film
school saying I want to be a first A.D.
Typically, I'd even know what onewas when I started Grand Valley.
(28:11):
So I think There's always peopleshooting films and someone needs to
schedule them and take on some of thatresponsibility from the director in terms
of when did the cast show up and howlong before we need them in this scene?
so I don't think there's any,way you wouldn't be able to, at
least volunteer as an AD, getsome experience under your belt.
(28:31):
and, there's not as bigof a non union world.
Out here, much, anymore There usedto be kind of like, I did some non
union camera AC work and stuff likethat, but it's now there's so many low
budget agreements with the unions tokeep their folks employed, which makes
sense, but that used to be kind of away into kind of a breeding ground in
the industry as well, just cutting yourteeth on some of these non union films.
(28:54):
There's still like a lot of horrorfilms like that that are non union.
Out of curiosity, what was it thatmade you realize, like, Oh, being
an AD is maybe the role for me?
Because I know you mentioned thatwasn't something you even knew
existed when you first started.
Well, with every level when youPA, you're part of the assistant
directing department, so youget a little bit of experience.
I mean a lot of the early jobs werelike You'd be stuck in extras holding,
(29:17):
getting the extras ready, and signedin and signed out, and through the
lunch line and all that stuff, andthat's not really fascinating work.
But then the closer I got to actual, ADwork, and like, kind of the scheduling,
and then even just setting the background,and on set, the extras, and giving
them background stories, and stuff toreally flesh out the scene, that helped.
(29:37):
You know, that's a bit ofthe creative part of the job.
And then getting into, the schedulingand even just doing the call sheet as
a second AD, that all, appealed to, aproblem solving, part of my brain that I
enjoy, you know, just fixing the puzzle.
and even now, I'll get some,it's dependent on the script.
Some scripts, I break it down, and it allkind of falls into place rather naturally.
(29:58):
And some, they're just, very trickyin how to schedule it the best way,
You can really schedule yourselfinto some really bad days on set.
One of the first jobs I did is thefirst AD on Desperate Housewives.
I was very confident that we couldmake this one location day within
our allotted time, and of coursewe had a couple technical delays.
But we ended up going really, really late.
And I remember looking at the producer andsaying, well, how many more days like this
(30:21):
do I have before I'm no longer the first?
And he said, not too many.
So, I quickly learned how important,that scheduling process is.
triggers some part of my brain that Ienjoy, that problem solving aspect of it.
My final question for you is, whatis some advice you wish you had
known when you were younger?
be patient, you know, your, yourcareer isn't made overnight.
(30:42):
I think I came out here with a headfull of steam thinking I would,
you know, be doing great thingsearlier on and it was all fine.
but had I known, it's going totake a little time to like really,
To kind of be comfortable where I'mat, and that would have been nice.
I think be prepared to workhard and put in long hours.
production can be very, gruelingat times, depending on the show.
(31:03):
I've done movies that are, dida movie that was a party, a teen
party movie, and it was like sixweeks of night work on location.
So it was sleeping allday, working all night.
And, it's like there's your life for thosesix weeks, and then sometimes, I would
say not getting a job can be a good thing.
I mean, you're going to go on a lot ofinterviews, and sometimes oftentimes
you won't, get a job for whateverreason, and, sometimes that, in
(31:27):
hindsight, that'll be the better.
Way to have gone about it and just on thenote of, , getting jobs, and interviewing.
It's the two biggest things is one,just have a very clean resume, have a
very readable resume and to always justresearch who you're going in to meet.
If you're meeting with some AD'sif you're meeting with a producer,
production company, just, quick Googlesearch, see what else they've worked on.
(31:51):
just don't go in kind of blind.
just do your researchbefore you go into that.
It's even that someone now who hires ADsand PAs, I'm amazed at how many people.
Come into the interview and just kind ofwaltz in and just don't know a thing, you
know, especially on something like this,where a Young Sheldon, a popular show.
We've been on the air for years.
I'm not expecting everyone to see everyepisode, but, you know, watch, a clip
(32:13):
or two, you know, get to know the showa little bit before you come in to
interview to be on the show, you know?
So do your research.
It's my other tip.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
(32:34):
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about.
The Grand Valley State UniversityFilm Video Alumni Network is here for
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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