October 1, 2024 • 45 mins
Host Randy Strobl (2012) talks with Wimee TV creators Kevin Kammeraad (1998) and Gwen Trautman (2022) about their innovative, multimedia interactive children’s educational programming - Wimee TV!
LINKS:
Wimee TV
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
LINKS:
Wimee TV
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
- The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
- GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randy Strobl (00:08):
Welcome to Alumni Live
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Randy (00:19):
Got a great conversation today with Kevin Kamaraad and Gwen Trautman about
their innovative multimedia children'seducational programming, Wimee TV.
Kevin and Gwen, how's it going?
Kevin (00:29):
Hey, doing just fine.
Gwen (00:31):
It's going great.
Randy (00:31):
Great.
Well, thank you fortalking on Alumni Live.
You are both alumni of Grand Valley.
When did you graduate?
Gwen (00:39):
So I graduated in April of 2022, so pretty recent graduate.
Kevin (00:44):
I am the class of 1998, the old turn of the century.
Is that, is that a thing?
Do people say that?
I don't know.
Randy (00:52):
Yeah, yeah, turn of the millennium, right?
It was, it was, yeah, weturned the whole thing over.
And I graduated in 2012, sowe've got multiple years here.
Thanks for coming to talk to us.
You're talking about Wimee TV.
What is Wimee TV?
Kevin (01:04):
So Wimee TV, there's a whole backstory.
So I'll first summarize what it is,and then we'll go back to the start.
It is interactive virtual,web based and on WGVU.
It's got different time slotsthat we've done over the years.
In essence, the goal, the passion,the focus is to create content
that inspires kids to create, towant them, to think of themselves
(01:28):
as producers instead of consumers.
And so we do it live there'sstructure to it, but it's lot
of improv, the spontaneity wherekids can see and understand that
they're part of the process.
Those episodes then that areexperienced live become edited
and that gets then put into.
the structure of the PBS publictelevision model, where these episodes
(01:49):
can be viewed on a variety of PBSaffiliates across the country.
And that's the quick one onone, Gwen, what do you add to that?
Gwen (01:56):
Wimee is a ton of things.
Wimee TV specifically, butI think it is your best.
local television show for kidsthat you can watch in the Grand
Rapids area, the Michigan area.
It's super unique.
It's different than any otherkids show that you've ever watched
because kids are actually helpingcreate it as they watch it.
And it's not just one of those call andresponse things where the character says
(02:17):
something, and then the kids at homesay something, they actually get to see
their answers on the television screen.
And then Wimee he talks back to them, andwill reference them and their answers,
and kids can feel heard and see.
seen.
And it's unlike any other televisionthat you've ever experienced.
So it's a really, really unique product.
Randy (02:33):
So maybe I should have started with this question instead.
Who is Wimee?
Kevin (02:37):
So Wimee is a lovable robot.
And, uh, let me, let mecheck if, Hey, Hey, Wimee.
No, that's Sibley.
Sibley, step away.
Wimee (02:46):
Oh, hey friends!
What, what is going on, Sibley?
Kevin?
Oh wait, Randy?
Gwen!
Hi, Gwen!
Oh man, are you guys doing a,like a, a video, a podcast?
What are you doing?
Kevin (02:56):
We are talking about the show, Wimee, and we were just talking about you.
Wimee (02:59):
Ha ha ha!
Oh my goodness, well whydon't I talk a little bit?
Kevin (03:02):
Tell you what, Wimee, I just wanted you to say hi, so why don't you just
pause and we'll let you come back later.
So I am the puppeteer of, of Wimee.
I always joke there's a fine linebetween, creativity and multiple
personalities and craziness and goofiness.
And, and, uh, I keep telling myself, Igot to stop saying that little because
it's, I don't know, but it's fun.
I guess my point with that, I guess, is.
(03:23):
it's a character.
a robot.
It's a puppet.
There's illustrations.
There's animations.
it's the face of the Wimedge app.
And we can circle back to thattoo, that that goes into the whole
story of how we got to this point.
But the idea is this robot as apuppet, I'll give you the visual.
It's about three and a half feet tall.
pinkish and orangish and greenish tealsand buttons that light up and glow.
(03:44):
. It's it's got big eyes that when itfirst was created as a character.
It was built with model airplanewheels, a fruitcake can as a head, a
box for the body, stool legs for arms.
So it was built out ofvery physical, real things.
that can kind of help you craft inyour mind what it looks like, right?
And basically then as a puppet, overthe years, playing, developing the
(04:04):
character, the personality, the soulof Wimee is always to celebrate,
creativity, creative thinking, wordplay,there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of
laughter, there's a lot of spontaneity.
So that's my, my take, I guess, on Wimee.
Gwen, how does that connect to whatyou see in Wimee, or what did I miss?
Gwen (04:21):
No, you hit the nail on the head.
Wimee is, he's like the combination ofevery character that you loved as a kid.
He's a little bit goofy,a little bit silly.
He loves to learn and explore and create.
he's just the perfect combinationof, I think, everything that
a kid would want to watch.
I know I would have loved watching.
I do love watching Wimee now, but Iknow as a kid, I would have absolutely
been glued to the television screen.
Randy (04:42):
It's so cool and I've, met Wimee actually.
so I've, been to one of WGVU's eventsbefore and, Wimee was performing there.
Kevin was, there.
There was a dance party thing.
So, What is incredible about Wimee,you just see the kids light up.
it's something where, Kevin'sstanding there too, but all the
eyes are just locked on Wimee.
So, how did that happen?
(05:02):
Like, how do you createsomething that kids love so much,
respond to, are learning from?
Where does Wimee come from?
Kevin (05:09):
How would I answer that?
Did you know, I so far talked aboutkind of the visual description and
then demonstrated his voice, right.
And in some of the concepts,how did it get to that point?
you know, there's a technicalanswer of just kind of what led
to this particular character.
I think the first answer to yourquestion though, is I should
say this, Michael Hyacinthe.
and I and Joe Emery togetherstarted that process of building
(05:30):
this, creating this character.
Michael and I sat down with, like Isaid, that fruitcake can, the model
airplane, Michael said, Hey, let'smake a robot named Wimee, which
ties into the visual literacy appthat he created, called Wimage.
And so as we were building thesephysical pieces, we then went to
my friend, Joe Emery, who's a puppetbuilder and said, how do we go further?
And that's kind of the technical thing.
But prior to all of that, Iwas an independent artist and
(05:51):
puppeteer for about 20 years.
so for me personally, when you, whenyou ask her or comment, the observation
of, you know, the kids and the magicand the energy, like anything, right,
the more You work at a craft at anart form, the stronger you get at it.
So I feel for me over the years oftraveling with different puppets,
singing to kids in different ways.
And, what's interesting is over those 20years, the first 10 years, when it came
(06:13):
to puppetry, I had a puppet named Jacob.
And the voice of thepuppet though was recorded.
A friend of mine, Andy Holgraveis the voice of that puppet.
And so we recorded the songs.
In fact, that was the originwas it was poetry to songs.
And then it was, how do webring these songs to life?
Oh, what if we do it through puppetry?
So the puppetry for me personally, asan artist, that was the entry point was.
(06:34):
How could we perform thesesongs and do different things?
and so for many years, I basicallytold the audience what to do, you
know, wave your arms left and rightnow, do this now do this, but it was
not a back and forth relationship.
So at some point, actuallyit was Art Prize of 2011.
Specifically, I was part of an exhibit,a piece where I started doing the
first puppet where I was the voice.
And I started to realize, Ohman, this vulnerability of
(06:56):
interacting with an audience.
is so much more fun and there's somuch more flexibility and there's
so much more spontaneity that you cando, but it's also more vulnerable.
But I also never went theroute of ventriloquism.
It was just, I'm just going to go for it.
And at the time I was in a puppettheater where you didn't see me.
But then when you did, you mentionedright here, I am with the puppet.
I don't try to be a ventriloquistbecause I personally don't feel for
(07:19):
what I'm trying to do that it's needed.
I think the art of ventriloquismis amazing, but I think a lot of
times people feel like they have tobe a ventriloquist in order to work
with a puppet in a performance orin a classroom or any setting.
So I build upon that even sayingto kids, yeah, they're puppets.
This is what I do.
Put your hand up in the air,bend your wrist, go la la la.
And when you are open about thecreative process with kids, they
(07:40):
gravitate even that much moreto want to do it themselves.
you're not trying topull something over them.
It's, this is what I'm doing.
This is how you can do it.
And so all that long winded answer therealso leads to now both the physical
shows in person, but what we do throughthe television show, like Gwen was
mentioning how we interact and kids see,wait, I just interacted with this puppet
through a camera now and through thetechnology that allows that to happen.
(08:02):
there's just such a synergy, such anenergy and, I think I'd go back to just
saying it's practice, it's intuition,it's doing it over and over and over.
It's learning from others.
I've learned from a lot of puppeteers anda lot of musicians, children's musicians.
And, I'm rambling a long time here.
So I got to pause and just,
Randy (08:17):
You're doing great, so Gwen, it sounds like Wimee was created, right?
So, we've got Kevin, Michael andJoe all, working on creating this
world, creating this character.
where do you come in?
Like, when did you start workingwith this project and, and how
do you help breathe life into it?
Gwen (08:32):
So I had actually not heard of Wimee while I was, A student at
Grand Valley, which is crazy becauseWimee is all over Grand Rapids.
I have no idea how I missed it.
It was probably one of those thingswhere like I turned my head and
they unfurled the banner behind me.
Like it just felt like it had been theremy whole life and I hadn't seen it.
And I was working at WGVU as a ProductionAssisstant and I'm always, always
(08:52):
vocal to everybody that someday I'mgoing to work in children's programming.
I want to work in children'seducational television and
everyone was like, okay, great.
That's that's great.
Good for you.
but all of the people I workedwith the WGVU listen to me, and
they were very receptive and.
my boss, Skye, he was talking to me oneday, he was like, we're gonna go as a
group and we're gonna tour the studiowith this local puppeteer, and I really
(09:14):
think you should come, because, Ithink you're absolutely gonna love it.
And I was like, oh, sure, so I went withthem that day and we went down to the
Wimee studio slash store, which wasn'teven officially open yet and went in
and Kevin was there with Wimee and hejust introduced himself and talked for
probably like 20 30 minutes Just backand forth and I didn't say like a word.
I was just in awe I was immediatelylike a kid just entranced and I couldn't
(09:38):
believe how cool this was and how it washere in Grand Rapids and i'd never seen
it before So we went back to the studioAnd I told Sky, like, any time you guys
are working with him, I have to be there.
I have to be on set.
You have let me be a part of this.
And, he did.
And the first time that Kevin came in to.
record some stuff for the lastseason and the one that we're
currently doing of Wimee He waslike you need to come in today.
(09:59):
Kevin is working in the studioand we need a camera person I was
like, absolutely and that was it.
I went in that day had the most fun i'dever had working on a set and it was
just Kevin and me and one other PA andI had the most fun I've ever had and I
told Sky I need you to give me Kevin'semail I feel like I have to ask him if
he needs any help if he needs somebodyto create content for him And, sure
(10:21):
enough, Kevin responded, really quickly.
then I met Michael and fromthere, I basically just
asked, can I come work for you?
And they said, yes.
And that was last April.
And it's been an amazingwhirlwind ever since.
Randy (10:35):
That is put, I, the viewers, or the listeners can't see right now, but
I've got just this huge smile on my face,cause that is dreams coming true, right?
Like, that is incredible, and like,just to connect some dots here, right?
you are a student at Grand Valley,Kevin, you know, is an alumnus.
of Grand Valley.
You've both graduated.
WGVU is the, public media station, youknow, PBS, NPR, housed on the campus
(10:56):
of Grand Valley State University.
putting out this show, creating it,it's alumni working together in this
public media station at Grand Valley.
how has Grand Valleyplayed into your careers?
Like, creating this show, creatingthe artist that you are today?
Kevin (11:09):
I'll summarize it for me that I went to Grand Valley from
94 to 98 was a student studyingfilm and video production.
And as I was, there, I started exploringchildren's poetry, which then turned into
music and independently publishing books.
when I talk about that traveling worldand circuit of schools and libraries
and performances with puppets, itwas connected to books and songs.
(11:32):
I ironically kind of left the film andvideo world, so to speak, ironically
now has full circle came back to thevideo aspect, the multimedia aspect,
what I learned the root of being astudent at Grand Valley was how do
I access technology, tools, videopartnerships, collaborations, how
do you work with people to create?
. And I also did some corporate work.
(11:52):
I worked at GRTV for a while,videotaped weddings, et cetera.
but my experience of being a studentthere, in fact, very specific, teachers
to my English class, Cynthia Simpson, theEnglish, 150, I think it was I remember.
realizing how much fun creative writingcould be in a storymaking class from,
Margaret Proctor, was the professorof that class and Deanna Morse and
Suzanne Zack actually, who's connectedto this whole experience here.
(12:15):
non linear digital editing was just comingout and it was like one of the first
times I think they offered, you know,at the time it was the decks, right?
And the, uh, AB insert one, two,or that might've been a Nintendo
code or something there too,but A, B, up, down, left, right.
But, Just the change in the technology.
Right.
But the creative process ofcreating, of doing, of partnering.
so that that's my quick answer.
(12:37):
And now to circle back, in fact, Iremember taking, uh, media, was it media?
I forget the exact class, but Phil Lanewas one of the guys connected to that
class in the fall of 94, spring of 95.
Well, guess who we're working with rightnow at WGVU of one of the people it's Phil
Lane, So how amazing is that connection?
And I'll also say real quick, rightafter I graduated, it was about six
(12:57):
months later, I've met my now wife,Stephanie, we've been married 22 years.
her degree is in special educationfrom Grand Valley State University.
And it was a professorat Grand Valley who.
connected us.
That's how we met was a Grand Valleyprofessor Liz Story so the School of
Education and over the years too I'vebeen at a lot of the different things
that Grand Valley has done to celebrateliteracy conferences different programs
and workshops that things have happenedso lots of Grand Valley connection
(13:20):
Then yeah, so then like Gwen said,there we are in the studio one day.
And I want to say this real quicktoo, circling back when Gwen reached
out, I was so glad she did, and justbeen amazing with her, the balance of
what she can do technically, but alsounderstanding the children's media focus
in the purpose of what we're doing.
but.
She challenges us to say,why don't we do this instead?
(13:41):
This could be better.
she has a great balance of technicaland creative theatrical and singing
and her ukuleles coming out soon.
Workshops that she and my wife,Stephanie do with preschoolers
in Grand Rapids right now.
and yeah, I'm rambling again, butyour Grand Valley, connection story
Gwen (13:55):
Yeah.
I was Grand Valley from 2018 to2022 and I also had Suzanne Zack as
a professor, which was wonderful.
I got to have her, 2 separate times andthe final 1 was in Capstone and I felt
like my professors had all been reallyencouraging as me becoming a producer and
learning how to edit all of the skills.
But I feel like Suzanne was the 1st 1who listened to me when I said, I want to
work in children's educational programmingand she helped me to reach out and talk
(14:20):
with people who've created televisionshows before, or inspired me to reach
out to people and be brave and ask, todo, interviews and things like that.
And.
getting to hear from people who haddone it, getting to hear from people
who were in the industry made merealize only even more that I wanted to.
And what it made me realize even morewas that the only way I was going to be
able to do this was if I asked the rightquestions, if I asked the right people.
(14:42):
As long as I continue to be vocalabout my, wants for my career, I
feel like someone will listen andsomeone will be able to help me.
And that's exactly what Sky didat, WGVU, I wanted to work at WGVU
because the long term goal for me,I'd, I'd love to work at PBS Kids,
someday, I think that would be amazing.
And I was like, well, the closest thing tothat is PBS right here in Grand Rapids.
And I'm sure I can dosome amazing things there.
(15:03):
And I did get to, and I got to workwith amazing people and make the best
connections and grow my skill set.
so much more, evenoutside of Grand Valley.
And Skye did listen and hehelped me to find Wimee.
And I was brave enoughto ask the questions and.
take my shot and I'm so glad that I did.
And now it's all connected again andwe're working really closely with WGVU.
And I love all the people who workthere and just being in there and
(15:24):
just the idea that we get to filma show with them in collaboration.
it feels already full circle,like a tiny little circle.
I started there and just keep comingback around it's really a big
part of my life, which is amazing.
Randy (15:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I hear so much of my own experiencein the stories that both of you have told.
I, also started working atWGVU as a student eventually
graduated, worked there, startedmy own company, things like that.
and I work for Detroit Public Televisionand it's like WGVU being a place
that Grand Valley students can evenwork at was such a, like a creative
incubator, the fact that it's part ofthe campus and a place that's open to
(15:55):
students, I can't explain enough, , whata great place that has been to work.
I just feel how muchyou both love this work.
what is it, can you put that into words?
I hear you talking about Wimee, Ihear you talking about the effect
it's having on students, and, I cansee it on your faces, but what is it
about this work that you love the most?
Kevin (16:13):
For me.
all the above.
my brain is, wired to create, to makethings, to express things, but not
only to express things, but to have arelationship with who it's intended for.
When I started with poetry and music andpuppetry, when I finally realized the
shift my friend, Jim, actually, there'sso many people that are part of this
show, and we've alluded to some of it.
(16:34):
so while I'm on that real quick,I just want to mention Michael
Hyacinthe, who started it all, right?
They got the ball rolling andthen he and I and Stephanie.
we kind of went from doing thingsin person, to this virtual world.
And it was a result specificallyof COVID is what launched it.
And now four years later, here we are.
but Jim Dagg, who also has a bandcalled Scribble Monster out of the
Chicago area is a huge part of, this show.
(16:55):
And we can hopefully circle back tomore about him, but in the context
of what I'm thinking right now is.
He's shared this analogy in the pastwith me that just struck such a chord
that as an artist, as you perform inperson or interact with, whatever the
setting is, if you want to play a gameand you want to play catch, right, you
got to throw it to the other personand they have to throw it back to you.
And so that's why it's fun is you'rein this relationship of back and forth.
(17:17):
if you're just throwing these baseballsat kids or an audience or they're
no one's playing catch with you,they're just dodging from you, right?
Well, that's a very different experience.
And so I love that metaphor of justplaying catch with a kid, with an
audience, with a family, with a hugegroup or a small group, or in this
case, a virtual show that, how big thatinteraction level is, depends on the
technology and the details of all that.
(17:38):
but for me, that's where I just love tolive and breathe is that vulnerability
of that relationship and a lot ofstructure goes into that, right?
We have a very specific planof what we're going to do, yet
there's so much improv built in.
Kind of the yes and conceptof improv, right in the
musicality and the playfulness.
It's seeing the energy, the synergy, thosemoments where what is happening can
(17:59):
only happen because of the sum of allparts, the joy, the laughter, the fun.
to be able to combine puppetry withmusic, with collaboration, with wordplay,
, this just deeply resonates to be able todo this and have the opportunity to do it.
Gwen (18:12):
I grew up.
I love learning.
I just love the act of learning.
I love learning new informationabout all kinds of subjects,
and I've always been that way.
I'm a big nerd.
I'll always admit it.
I just, I love documentaries.
I love watching behind the scenes stuff.
I just love knowing things.
And I think, you know, my parentshelped foster that, and the school
district that I was in was wonderful,but I got it a lot from the television
shows that I watched growing up.
(18:32):
I watched a lot of PBS Kids growingup, and I just loved all of it.
And I especially loved the oneswhere there was puppets involved
or mixed media or other elementsthat really engaged me and kept me
interested and kept me wanting more.
And how did they do that?
How is that happening?
It's so cool.
And as I grew up, I didn'tknow, what I wanted to do.
Like most people, I jump back and forthbetween lots of things, but I always knew
(18:53):
that I loved learning and I wanted towork it into my career someday, somehow.
I knew I didn't really want to bea teacher, but I knew I wanted to
help foster that love of learning andeducation and others, especially kids.
I think that's my favorite part isthat every day that I'm creating stuff
for Wimee or working on the show, I amhopefully helping some kid out there
realize that they love learning too,and that they want to keep learning
and they want to go off and become adoctor or a lawyer, or become a teacher
(19:17):
or a farmer or whatever brings themjoy, whatever, lights them up inside.
Because what lights me up inside isgiving that opportunity to others.
it's so sweet and exciting and no, Ijust love every single second of it.
Randy (19:28):
That's so cool.
I'm so glad I got to hear that right now.
That's, that's awesome.
Randy Strobl (19:32):
This episode is brought to you by the Chuck
Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
the upper-level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who were working
on creative projects that support thenonprofit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome, the 2020 recipient,of that fellowship describes the
benefits of the support he received
Kyle Macciome (19:53):
When going through this fellowship, there are three separate
parts of yourself that I think getto experience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work witha client on your own independently,
out in the world, away from theclassroom, like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(20:14):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third onewould be as a citizen.
You know, you're not making video foran entertainment value or for some
kind of commercial purpose, it's for anon-profit it's for a direct benefit in
your community and being a citizen ofthat community, understanding how you
(20:34):
can directly impact and improve it, um,is a really valuable experience that
I think the fellowship teaches you tobe as, as a student, as a filmmaker
and as a citizen, all three of thosethings are directly a part of this
process that you get to learn and askyourself, how do I want to be seen?
And how do I want to actas these three roles?
Randy Strobl (20:54):
For more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit the link
in the description now back to the show
Randy (21:00):
So we're talking a lot about education.
We're talking about, creating things.
But let's also talkabout filmmaking, right?
So storytelling, let's talkabout the format of the show.
How do you put together, a story?
How do you convey who this character is?
what are some of the nuts and boltsthat a film student listening to
this might want to know more about?
Kevin (21:18):
Yeah.
I think it'd be fun, Gwen, for usto give the structure of the show
and the technology and the formatof how we do that and the process.
And I think you'll also notice, aswe chat about this, that you'll see
it's pretty much bare bone concept.
And part of that is just areflection of technology these days.
It's very different.
You don't need a full blowntelevision studio, right?
but we'll get into the veryspecific of an episode.
(21:38):
but I think what got us to thispoint to make sense to, give a
little bit of that background.
So Michael, who started the appWimage, which is meant to be 'Words
to Images' said, you know, let'screate this character Wimee, right?
And so we were using the app, which isyou input a word, you see an image, you
change the color, you can make it sizebigger, smaller, you add layers, you
know, you can create a compositionfrom word to word to word and design
(22:00):
and really cool concept of, let'svisualize thoughts, and create something
with the, with this resources tool.
So we then started going into schools,doing workshops where we would use the
app, use the puppet, create a song,play with songs, different concepts.
it eventually led to creating the firstbook that created the groundwork to
the concept of what we were trying todo to inspire kids, to create things
visually, to play, to have fun, to createan environment that, kids are excited
(22:22):
about, So when COVID shut everythingdown, we were in the middle of doing
a whole district wide kind of thing.
PNC Grew up Great wasfunding it, et cetera.
And we, at first just put on the camerawith Wimee, the robot, this puppet, right?
It was simply Facebook.
It was simply hit go live.
And here I am.
In fact, Wimee do you want to share?
Wimee (22:39):
Wait, wait a minute.
Okay.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember.
Yeah.
The camera was on and I was just like,Hey friends, what should we talk about?
Uh, and then people would post commentsand then I would see them and then
we'd be like, Oh yeah, let's sing.
And we do these songs and we wouldjust sing a song like down by
the bay, down by the bay, right?
And then they would say frog.
And I'd go like, Oh yes.
Do you ever see a frog?
(22:59):
Who started to jog?
Ha ha ha ha!
What's another animal?
And then we'd wait for the comment,
and I go, Oh, so and so, causeI could call them out and
say, well, that's, thank you.
Okay.
Did you ever see a whale?
Kevin (23:10):
All right.
So again, these patternbased concepts, right?
Of songs and wordplay and interactivity.
And so now fast forward, right?
From just one camera and a puppet.
Sorry, Wimee.
I'm going to take over.
Okay.
Um, so, uh, we then from theresaid, okay, how do we improve this?
How do we go further?
This is where now we canget into a technical thing.
a friend of mine who performs underthe name Uno Dos Tres Andres, he and
(23:33):
his wife, Christina are incrediblemusicians and they're absolutely amazing.
and we're fortunate to know them.
And when they saw this little livething we were doing, it's like,
Oh, you got to use StreamYard.
So for those of you who know whatStream Yard is, you're gonna go, yes.
For those of you saying,what is Stream Yard?
Think of it as like, rightnow we're on Zoom, right?
Facilitating this broadcast.
there's teams, there's Google Meet,there's all these platforms, right?
(23:54):
Stream Yard is meant to be, not likeall these cameras come on and everybody
controls their view and you and the mic.
Like, you gotta mute your microphone.
Come on.
Right?
That kinda scenario, it createsbasically an online virtual television.
broadcast system it's a structurethat allows, okay, different cameras.
We can put in video clips, we can putin music tracks, we can put in images.
(24:16):
basically now that platform, we startedfiguring out how do we start putting
this into segment to segment to segmentand develop the little video, the pre
roll intro, the graphic, the overlay,in essence, start to build the show.
Gwen, why don't you kind of fastforward to what we're on now.
in the structure, you're the one behindthe scenes running, Okay, this, do
this, and I just get to sit therewith the puppet and make some records.
Gwen (24:39):
Yeah, it's very similar for anyone who's ever been inside of a
television studio or maybe just seen one.
They have those giant switcher boards.
It's very much like that, but waymore streamlined, a lot easier to
learn, and you don't accidentallyhit the wrong button unknowingly and
broadcast something live to the air.
You know exactly what you're lookingat with StreamYard, and so Kevin
(24:59):
will be back there with the puppet,and then I'm sitting five feet away.
From him, at the table with Stephanie andwe're both running different parts of it.
My main job is to pull in the differentsegments and to record the show.
And then we use the Wimageboard live during the show.
And so as Kevin creates this threesentence story with Wimee, I will
put it up on the screen and I'llanimate it and it'll be super fun.
(25:20):
And we do all of that live.
what we're doing right now is, we havelike this little tiny television studio
basically all inside of our computersthat we're using in our studio downtown.
We then send that to WGVU, andthey take that and they air that,
all over their broadcast radius.
Kevin (25:36):
One thing I'll, add in real quick too, is there was a lot of
conversations and trust establishedbefore, I love how, you say that,
Gwen, like, Oh yeah, they just threwit up on the air and, uh, here we go.
and Phil, Phil's probablylistening, he's like, No!
That's not, don't start saying, right?
But, but we did actually like three tofour hundred episodes on Facebook the
(25:57):
way, and StreamYard kind of allows you tosend the signal to different platforms.
We ultimately had to use Facebook andYouTube and different things because that
was the only option for the interactivity.
Well, what happened was, and thisis a good time I think to mention,
a partnership with, Josh Freenyand the different organizations
and companies that he's part of.
Also, I want to mention, Kent DistrictLibrary is a huge part of this.
\, there's so many peopleinvolved in this process.
(26:18):
I work for Kent District Library as abookmobile operator and in the outreach.
And when we launched this during COVIDthe partnerships of how all these pieces
work together, as we were kind of justfiguring out how do we serve our community
or the people that we're working with,interacting with, how do we do this and
how can that spread into other projectsthat we're doing, other resources and
videos projects and summer reading.
And we had a business expothing we did for a while, right.
(26:40):
Kind of learning this process.
And as we were continuing tobuild we started saying to Phil
at WGVU, what could this look like?
And when Gwen mentioned the broadcaststudio, so to speak, is in a computer,
when Mark, one of the engineers at WGVUwas brought into the equation of, okay,
we want to explore how could we do this?
His first question was, well, where'syour master output video signal, the cord,
(27:00):
like where HDMI, what are you sending?
Where's your master output?
And we said, well, there, there is none.
Like, well, what are you talking about?
you're doing this multicamera live production thing.
Like send me the master out.
We got to get it into this.
And he had like a conversion boxthat when they go out and do live,
like they have a truck, right.
That goes out and does liveproduction and they send the
signal as the master output.
And I kept saying, well, there,there is no master output.
(27:21):
It's just this stream yard.
com slash one, two, seven, five.
Like it was like, well,that's not going to work.
And that's where Josh Trini andhis resources and team, we figured
out there's a huge learning curve.
And Josh very specifically was the oneto say, I think I know how this can work.
was this middle person to say.
Okay.
If we go from StreamYard to this thirdparty thing, which involves servers,
which involves this, and then, which Iguess kind of over my head, what he did
(27:44):
is why I'm just like servers and somecomputers and some enter some numbers.
And right.
But Mark and Josh were the ones thatworked a long time to figure this out.
But then the reality was.
It's working.
And it involved also a box over attheir end with WGVU and how it came in.
But then the other thing too, a bigthing was there has to be live captioning
there's a lot of technical rules, right?
And it's good, but it's,okay, how do we do this?
(28:06):
And so once all this trial and errorin figuring out how this could work and
trying some other things in additionto what we landed on, and so when we
first launched it last fall, everythingwas web based for like two and a half,
three years, and this was the firsttime saying, and by the way, I should
say those web based episodes wouldbecome edited, which would then be.
sent to WGVU different stationsin Michigan and other parts of the
(28:26):
country, as well as then exploringlarger distribution channels
of how digital content can getdistributed to public television.
It was expanding through the PBSworld, as recorded content still
based on live content, but recorded.
So the question of how do we golive opened up a huge can of worms.
And so when we first didit, we didn't announce it.
We didn't say anything becausewe didn't know if it was
going to just completely fail.
(28:46):
Cause we also had to figure out, okay,go into your live and you know, five,
four, three, two, one, you're live.
And then you're out.
Cause we never had a time limitof you have to be done at 26
minutes and 42 seconds, right?
Cause it goes to the next thing.
it was just a big learning curve.
And again, the, the synergy ofall the people trying to do this.
And, and after the first episode,when we finished live, we all
kind of paused like, did it work?
(29:07):
And, and so then we continued doingthe live ones and now we're returning,
to do the next, another set of liveepisodes and so we're going to continue
to expand it and learn from each otherand, and learn where it's all going to go.
And you know, it, it takes alot of energy and sponsorship
and funding and it's a big can ofworms to how to really do this.
. Randy: Gwen, two main themes that I just heard Kevin talk about are, about
(29:29):
a lot of learning curves and I heardhim talk a lot about collaboration.
So to me, some of the biggest lessonsthat I learned from Grand Valley were
just how to learn, how to be curiousand how to work with other people
that might know some of those answers.
Can you talk to that like what weresome scenarios and classes what were
some lessons that you brought thatreally helped you do what you do
and create this new format for TV.
Gwen (29:51):
I think that's one of the things that the Grand Valley film program
does really, really well is puttingyou in lots of situations where you're
learning how to collaborate withall sorts of different people and
you're problem solving constantly.
And, they don't throw you in thedeep end and say, here you go, but
a little bit, they're like, you needto go off and learn how to do this.
And we'll be there tohelp you if you need us.
But, a lot of classes, I think thefirst taste of that was, Media 2.
(30:12):
They kind of start letting you doprojects on your own, but they, pair
you up with random people, and you're,like, I don't know if we're gonna
work together, and, then it just keepsgetting bigger, and, through, the Doc
classes, and Fiction 1 and Fiction2, you're creating, whole films,
sometimes, feature length, or shorts.
And you're doing thingsyou've never done before.
you're trying to like, you'regetting permissions for these things.
You're figuring out whatkind of cameras, what kind of
(30:34):
lighting, and can I even do this?
Can I make this vision come to life?
Because everybody in the Grand Valleyfilm program likes to dream big.
Like that's, that's one ofthe things we're best at.
And so we all dream big together.
And then we step back and we'relike, Oh, how do we make that happen?
And you want to make it happenfor each other because you've
spent all this time growing andcollaborating and making friends and
making these film groups together.
And so you want to, realize thosedreams and see them come to life.
(30:55):
And I see that in Wimee all the time.
we have lots of things thatI've never even thought could be
possible that we're doing withtelevision and with programming.
And.
we have big dreams, but it doesn't stopus from coming up with big solutions.
we're really endlessly creative.
And that's because of all of theamazing partners and the sponsors
and all of the really coolpeople that we get to work with.
But I definitely don't know if Iwould have the grit or the, the want
(31:18):
to keep solving those problems ifI hadn't been put in very similar
situations when I was in college.
Randy (31:23):
Yeah.
Kevin I was hearing you talk alittle about pattern based learning.
How much does research playinto what you're doing?
How much are you learningabout how kids learn?
And learn how toresearch at Grand Valley?
how do you go about making sure?
Kevin (31:37):
That's a perfect setup for talking about Stephanie.
My wife has her degree in specialeducation from Grand Valley.
And so she is the backbone to theeducational aspects combined with
KDL staff, librarians, Kalane Mish,is, is also part of the educational
aspect, Jim, who I mentioned as afellow colleague and performer, and
(31:58):
he's part of the show on camera as well.
and his wife is, has adoctorate in education.
And so.
All of us just have a lot of experience indifferent ways that we bring to the table.
And when we don't know things,we look up curriculums.
We look up things with partnersin Kent County, the Great Start
Collaborative, First Steps Kent,the Head Start of Kent County.
We're always interacting and engaging.
(32:18):
And I think Kent District Libraryin particular, and the librarians.
the sum of all the parts, butspecifically Stephanie, for me is usually
my first go to, or she is the one whoruns a lot of these things to begin with.
It's rooted in experience and knowledgeand, we reach out to ask for help
when we are in over our head, onething that I think that ties into
this is we kind of started to go herewhen it talks about the actual show.
(32:40):
when you talk about education, westart every show with what's
called a pattern based song.
so it's like Down by the Baythat I was singing earlier.
We've just established a structure thatwe know works and we have, the curriculum
connections to what we're doing and why.
Once it's been established, wethen build upon those concepts.
We haven't finished this yet, butwe're getting close to, having what we
call an Explore More with Wim ee page.
(33:01):
So the concept is that not only are youinteracting with these pattern based
songs, the three sentence story that,Gwen alluded to earlier, we write a
story with a beginning, a middle, and end.
set the scene in the first sentence,there's a problem in the second,
and then a solution in the third.
So it's showing and expressing thestory writing process, the arc,
which is very relevant to filmmakingwhen you talked about that aspect
and like, how do you, craft a story.
(33:21):
How do you write the script?
so we kind of boil it down tojust beginning, middle and end.
And we do that every episode.
So hopefully kids experiencing that,not only see their ideas in the story,
if they're part of the, the threewords that are chosen, they just have
it built into them, that concept.
And then we do things like the,alphabet game where we just think
of words that start with a certainletter, very standard concepts, but
done in a playful, quirky, fun way.
Randy (33:43):
Gwen, as film people, right?
Like, we're a little bit techie.
can you kind of go through, like, whatare some of, , the cameras you're using?
what does your studio looklike, out there in, Wimee world?
Gwen (33:52):
So, you know, you go into a television studio that they have
these big, amazing, giant camerasthat are, like, hooked into the walls
and there's wires and everything.
actually use two very nice webcams.
those are our main cams thatwe use for our show, and we've
tried using other cameras before.
And what we've actually found is that wecan't get that same really fun, loving
(34:12):
quality that we can with these veryspecific webcams that we have been using.
And so.
Then Kevin has a microphone that helike you'll see on some puppeteers.
He'll tape to his headand he'll wear a hat.
So it stays in place and it's a verynice, but it's a very tiny, tiny little
microphone, but it picks up great audio.
And his is really the only audiothat we need because we get all the
rest of it from inside of StreamYard.
So we have a very basicsetup, but what we're able to
(34:35):
accomplish with it is amazing.
And it's television quality.
It's shown on televisionall over the country.
And it's really funny to thinkthat, you know, you go from the
studio with these giant big camerasdown to these little tiny ones.
And I've worked with camerasof every size in between.
but these ones are helping deliverthe kind of quality show that we want.
even though they're not maybeas high tech as some of
(34:55):
the other stuff we've used.
It's exactly what the showneeds to be successful.
I had never worked with webcams a lotbefore this, but I've learned a lot as
we've learned how to adjust them and makethem look the best that we possibly can.
Kevin (35:07):
I think I'd piggyback on that real quick too.
You know, more light youflood on something, right?
Without overexposing it, obviously,but there's, just, light, light, light,
lights, you know, aimed on these puppets.
So the webcam, because of the lightingas well, piggybacking together.
And with it being one basic shot withthe colorful background and desk, We
don't need super, super great cameras.
(35:27):
We, may expand more camerasor more shots or more angles.
And I think what I was gonna sayalso was just because the world
that we now live in, the concept ofinteractiveness and zoom and meetings
and stuff, There's just a different,aesthetic is also accepted in a way
it wasn't, you know, 10, 20 years ago.
like Gwen said, the cameras pulloff what we need them to pull off.
(35:47):
But also I think what I'm referring tois just the structure of the show itself
being a live variety show concept.
It's just, different, I thinksubconsciously you understand what
we're doing requires the internetand live cameras going back and
forth and engaging in a way thatis different from watching a studio
production we think of from the past.
Randy (36:06):
I'm sitting here just so fascinated by all of this, You
are, creating the coolest things.
We're, we're kind of heading towardsthe end here, , let's jump into the
time machine real quick, and, , goback to, as you are now, right?
So right now you're you're successful,you're creating incredible media,
people across the state, across thecountry talking about how cool this is.
Going back, talking to yourself, you know,as a freshman in college, starting out
(36:27):
at Grand Valley, what advice do you have?
What encouragement do you have?
Like, what do you say to,young Gwen, to young Kevin?
Gwen (36:34):
I think one of the big ones for me is I wouldn't get to be working with
the amazing people I work with now orcreating the wonderful things that I
get to create if I hadn't been brave andasked if I could be a part of that team.
I could have just worked with thatone environment or whenever he
came in and really enjoyed it andenjoyed that part of it, but I knew
there could be more if I tried.
(36:55):
And I would encourage any single personwho thinks that they may have a shot
at something if only they just asked,if only they just took their shot.
Absolutely 100 percent do it.
Networking is huge and it'simportant and it's wonderful.
And because I was able to make thoseconnections with WGVU and everybody,
I was introduced to Kevin, butthere's an extra step after that.
Once you meet everybody, onceyou have all the numbers
(37:16):
and the names, you have to.
ask for what you want, you have toreach out to those people, those
connections that you've made andsee what they can help you do.
and if you have made a good enoughconnection with them, hopefully they
can help you and and move on with yourcareer and experience amazing things.
So I would just tell her to work hard.
and learn how to collaborate andtry a little bit of everything.
(37:36):
And then once you're comfortable,even when you're uncomfortable,
ask for what you want and seewhat they're able to give you.
Kevin (37:42):
I love how you said that, Gwen.
And you know, it was the perfectconnection too, because we could
have been at a place where we justdidn't have capacity, but it was
actually, tell us more about you.
We want to see what youdo and what you offer.
I t's the combination of yes, seeking outand also knowing that you will get no's
along the way, but to not then give upand or to circle back or to follow up.
I think the persistence of following up.
(38:03):
And now, obviously too, as you startedworking with us and we keep saying
like, Oh, Gwen could do this and this,you're proving how much you're capable
of and you're, just making it somuch better, with what we're doing.
Just don't give up, keep going, whichyeah, connects to what Gwen said too.
Just put yourself out there.
But it doesn't mean it'sit's easy and simple.
And everything's allrolling along smoothly.
one thing I want to answer yourquestion, also I think this goes back
(38:24):
to surrounding yourself with people.
And the collaborative team, you know,Michael, when he started all this and
where it's at now is mind boggling.
and very much in the creativemode, much more than the business
entrepreneur logistics mode.
And so.
Michael pursues that and is pursuingthe bigger things and the next
things, and as I'm, surrounded byKent District Library and Josh and
people and Phil and the studio WGVU.
(38:46):
Collaboration is so key.
I was able to graduate from GrandValley, for it, independently
try to make things work.
Lots of struggling, lots ofchallenges in life and all the pieces
right, but you just keep going andyou keep knowing when to pivot.
It's to just not give up, to keep going,connect with people that add to what
you offer, that think differently thanyou do because, having the different
(39:06):
perspectives, the different skills, thedifferent, characteristics that they bring
to the table just make things better.
Randy (39:12):
Well, check this out.
So, so we're not live in the sameway that Wimee's live, so I don't
have that on screen interactionlike you do for your show.
But I do have an on screen chat here fromSuzanne, who was your former professor.
And she says here, the thingabout Kevin is that he was
different than other students.
He was creating outside thebox, which takes courage,
and that he makes it happen.
He trusted himself.
(39:33):
I mean, it, it sounds like you weremaking projects back when you were
in school that were getting thegreen light from inside of you.
And it sounds like the projectsyou're doing now, you're still
giving yourself the green light.
And what is the value in that?
Where, where does thatdrive even come from?
Kevin (39:47):
I think for me, the creative process combined with the, internal
desire to put yourself out there,whether it's applying for a
job or creating your own path.
It comes down to trusting yourinstinct, trusting who you are, trusting
what you're trying to do, knowingthat it is incredibly hard and the
(40:09):
days are going to be fruitful thatfeel overwhelming and frustrating.
Randy (40:13):
But there is something to that though, right?
who else could have made this show?
Who else could have created W imeeit's not that you were trying to make
something else that was out there.
Like you weren't trying to makethat chase scene you were making.
Kevin (40:24):
I think if you trust your instincts and you think big and you
go for it and you surround yourselfwith diverse thinking, you know,
people that think similar anddifferent to you and have different
personalities and skills and traits.
When you trust your instinct and yousurround yourself by a variety of
people and you just keep going, yousometimes look back and go, huh,
(40:46):
wow, we're here, we're doing this.
And there's always going to bethe, it could be so much bigger,
like you look and you think, oh, itcould be a thousand times bigger.
But yet, This is where it's atand to be grateful, to be in the
moment, to keep it in perspectiveand just day by day, just keep going.
That's what I'm ultimatelytrying to do each day.
Randy (41:05):
Question just came to my mind so, so, so much of the world
seems to be expanding outward.
The world seems to be getting smaller.
shows are becoming morenational, more international.
And yet, local television, especiallylocal public broadcasting, is something
that's still very strong let's talk alittle bit about local versus big time.
Like what can you do locally?
Kevin (41:24):
Yeah, you know, with what we're doing with the show, we very specifically
have been partnering with the John BallZoo, with the Grand Rapids Children's
Museum, , we have rotating segments onthe show, and we have the very specific
segments, but one of the rotating onesis called Kid Chat, and we record it at
the Children's Museum, and so we wantto continue that concept, and we want to
continue creating more concepts where, wevery intentionally call out here in Grand
(41:45):
Rapids as a local show that is viewedon a larger scale, but we want people
here to know they can be part of it.
Like they have the opportunity,through the website, just reaching
out to us, people can find us and say,Hey, how could we be part of this?
You know, as we're creating theshow, people will recognize things
from the Grand Rapids community.
They'll know they can go downtown inGrand Rapids here on Ottawa Avenue,
(42:07):
where this actual studio is thestore, you can come and be part of it.
So we try to be where the localcommunity can be part of it.
And we then can represent ourcommunity to the world, right?
Who's watching it and interacting.
And we want to continue to be ableto do things in person, you know,
performances that are in person.
There's a mascot of Wimee, the puppetof Wimee, the workshops Gwen and Steph
(42:27):
go out into right now, and they're goinginto Grand Rapids Public Preschools,
doing things with the Wimee character,with technology, with the Wimage board.
So it is very much rooted and basedhere, and we plan to keep it that way.
And, know, as it expands to withdifferent segments, we could do, you
know, who knows, like we're talkingabout everything where it's at
right now, but where is it going tobe in six months in a year, right?
That's the thing we werekind of talking about.
Like, look, what is possible?
(42:48):
We don't know what's possiblein a few months from now.
And, the whole AI world, right?
That is something also we'restepping into and, the whole new
partnership that's unfolding there.
And so we want to respondto what the community wants.
I think, right.
If, some organization reached outand said, Hey, could we do this?
We're going to do everything wecan to say, let's explore it.
. Randy: What are you seeing?
Like, are you seeing that happenwith local Grand Rapids kids?
Gwen (43:10):
Yeah, we, like Kevin was talking about, will go out in the community and
do Kid Chats and things, and some of thosekids have never heard of Wimee before, but
we had a couple who were really big Wimeefans, and they heard about this open call
to come and be a part of the show, andthey came, and it was amazing, and we have
kids who come into the studio sometimes,we're like, Who they know who Wimee is.
They already have Wimee on their shirt.
(43:31):
They they're holding the, when youplush in their hand, it's part of
their lives, they read the books,they watch the show, they interact.
It's crazy to me, that, we're makingsomething that when I was little, it's
like meeting Blues Clues, like ifBlues Clues lived downtown from you.
That's what I imagine it feels likefor some of these kids, it's crazy.
They're meeting something thatis so influential in their lives.
I don't think sometimes we think hhow big Wime e probably is in some of
(43:52):
these kid's lives in their world andhow often they think about it and how
much they will think about it as theycontinue to grow up and the little
things that they'll pull from it.
And hopefully will use as theygrow into the amazing people
that they're going to become.
I think it's really special.
And I think only local televisioncan give you that kind of feeling
in that kind of experience.
That feels very homegrown, but alsovery expandable and relatable worldwide.
Randy (44:14):
Hey, we got new season of Wimee coming out you said March 1st, right?
Get in the chat, ask Wimee somequestions, participate, I recommend
any of the students listening to this.
To watch Wimee
Kevin (44:23):
Thank you, Randy, this has been so much fun!
And Gwen, it's so fun to be workingwith you over this last year, and
how this whole adventure's going.
Randy (44:31):
Well, you both and the whole team are just doing incredible work
and I am just so glad to have gone tothe same university as both of you.
So thank you so much.
Kevin (44:39):
That's very kind.
Thank you, Randy.
This was fun.
Let's do it again.
Gwen (44:42):
Thank you, Randy.
Randy (44:45):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live
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(45:06):
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Thank you for listening.
Welcome to Alumni Live
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graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Randy (00:19):
Got a great conversation today with Kevin Kamaraad and Gwen Trautman about
their innovative multimedia children'seducational programming, Wimee TV.
Kevin and Gwen, how's it going?
Kevin (00:29):
Hey, doing just fine.
Gwen (00:31):
It's going great.
Randy (00:31):
Great.
Well, thank you fortalking on Alumni Live.
You are both alumni of Grand Valley.
When did you graduate?
Gwen (00:39):
So I graduated in April of 2022, so pretty recent graduate.
Kevin (00:44):
I am the class of 1998, the old turn of the century.
Is that, is that a thing?
Do people say that?
I don't know.
Randy (00:52):
Yeah, yeah, turn of the millennium, right?
It was, it was, yeah, weturned the whole thing over.
And I graduated in 2012, sowe've got multiple years here.
Thanks for coming to talk to us.
You're talking about Wimee TV.
What is Wimee TV?
Kevin (01:04):
So Wimee TV, there's a whole backstory.
So I'll first summarize what it is,and then we'll go back to the start.
It is interactive virtual,web based and on WGVU.
It's got different time slotsthat we've done over the years.
In essence, the goal, the passion,the focus is to create content
that inspires kids to create, towant them, to think of themselves
(01:28):
as producers instead of consumers.
And so we do it live there'sstructure to it, but it's lot
of improv, the spontaneity wherekids can see and understand that
they're part of the process.
Those episodes then that areexperienced live become edited
and that gets then put into.
the structure of the PBS publictelevision model, where these episodes
(01:49):
can be viewed on a variety of PBSaffiliates across the country.
And that's the quick one onone, Gwen, what do you add to that?
Gwen (01:56):
Wimee is a ton of things.
Wimee TV specifically, butI think it is your best.
local television show for kidsthat you can watch in the Grand
Rapids area, the Michigan area.
It's super unique.
It's different than any otherkids show that you've ever watched
because kids are actually helpingcreate it as they watch it.
And it's not just one of those call andresponse things where the character says
(02:17):
something, and then the kids at homesay something, they actually get to see
their answers on the television screen.
And then Wimee he talks back to them, andwill reference them and their answers,
and kids can feel heard and see.
seen.
And it's unlike any other televisionthat you've ever experienced.
So it's a really, really unique product.
Randy (02:33):
So maybe I should have started with this question instead.
Who is Wimee?
Kevin (02:37):
So Wimee is a lovable robot.
And, uh, let me, let mecheck if, Hey, Hey, Wimee.
No, that's Sibley.
Sibley, step away.
Wimee (02:46):
Oh, hey friends!
What, what is going on, Sibley?
Kevin?
Oh wait, Randy?
Gwen!
Hi, Gwen!
Oh man, are you guys doing a,like a, a video, a podcast?
What are you doing?
Kevin (02:56):
We are talking about the show, Wimee, and we were just talking about you.
Wimee (02:59):
Ha ha ha!
Oh my goodness, well whydon't I talk a little bit?
Kevin (03:02):
Tell you what, Wimee, I just wanted you to say hi, so why don't you just
pause and we'll let you come back later.
So I am the puppeteer of, of Wimee.
I always joke there's a fine linebetween, creativity and multiple
personalities and craziness and goofiness.
And, and, uh, I keep telling myself, Igot to stop saying that little because
it's, I don't know, but it's fun.
I guess my point with that, I guess, is.
(03:23):
it's a character.
a robot.
It's a puppet.
There's illustrations.
There's animations.
it's the face of the Wimedge app.
And we can circle back to thattoo, that that goes into the whole
story of how we got to this point.
But the idea is this robot as apuppet, I'll give you the visual.
It's about three and a half feet tall.
pinkish and orangish and greenish tealsand buttons that light up and glow.
(03:44):
. It's it's got big eyes that when itfirst was created as a character.
It was built with model airplanewheels, a fruitcake can as a head, a
box for the body, stool legs for arms.
So it was built out ofvery physical, real things.
that can kind of help you craft inyour mind what it looks like, right?
And basically then as a puppet, overthe years, playing, developing the
(04:04):
character, the personality, the soulof Wimee is always to celebrate,
creativity, creative thinking, wordplay,there's a lot of joy, there's a lot of
laughter, there's a lot of spontaneity.
So that's my, my take, I guess, on Wimee.
Gwen, how does that connect to whatyou see in Wimee, or what did I miss?
Gwen (04:21):
No, you hit the nail on the head.
Wimee is, he's like the combination ofevery character that you loved as a kid.
He's a little bit goofy,a little bit silly.
He loves to learn and explore and create.
he's just the perfect combinationof, I think, everything that
a kid would want to watch.
I know I would have loved watching.
I do love watching Wimee now, but Iknow as a kid, I would have absolutely
been glued to the television screen.
Randy (04:42):
It's so cool and I've, met Wimee actually.
so I've, been to one of WGVU's eventsbefore and, Wimee was performing there.
Kevin was, there.
There was a dance party thing.
So, What is incredible about Wimee,you just see the kids light up.
it's something where, Kevin'sstanding there too, but all the
eyes are just locked on Wimee.
So, how did that happen?
(05:02):
Like, how do you createsomething that kids love so much,
respond to, are learning from?
Where does Wimee come from?
Kevin (05:09):
How would I answer that?
Did you know, I so far talked aboutkind of the visual description and
then demonstrated his voice, right.
And in some of the concepts,how did it get to that point?
you know, there's a technicalanswer of just kind of what led
to this particular character.
I think the first answer to yourquestion though, is I should
say this, Michael Hyacinthe.
and I and Joe Emery togetherstarted that process of building
(05:30):
this, creating this character.
Michael and I sat down with, like Isaid, that fruitcake can, the model
airplane, Michael said, Hey, let'smake a robot named Wimee, which
ties into the visual literacy appthat he created, called Wimage.
And so as we were building thesephysical pieces, we then went to
my friend, Joe Emery, who's a puppetbuilder and said, how do we go further?
And that's kind of the technical thing.
But prior to all of that, Iwas an independent artist and
(05:51):
puppeteer for about 20 years.
so for me personally, when you, whenyou ask her or comment, the observation
of, you know, the kids and the magicand the energy, like anything, right,
the more You work at a craft at anart form, the stronger you get at it.
So I feel for me over the years oftraveling with different puppets,
singing to kids in different ways.
And, what's interesting is over those 20years, the first 10 years, when it came
(06:13):
to puppetry, I had a puppet named Jacob.
And the voice of thepuppet though was recorded.
A friend of mine, Andy Holgraveis the voice of that puppet.
And so we recorded the songs.
In fact, that was the originwas it was poetry to songs.
And then it was, how do webring these songs to life?
Oh, what if we do it through puppetry?
So the puppetry for me personally, asan artist, that was the entry point was.
(06:34):
How could we perform thesesongs and do different things?
and so for many years, I basicallytold the audience what to do, you
know, wave your arms left and rightnow, do this now do this, but it was
not a back and forth relationship.
So at some point, actuallyit was Art Prize of 2011.
Specifically, I was part of an exhibit,a piece where I started doing the
first puppet where I was the voice.
And I started to realize, Ohman, this vulnerability of
(06:56):
interacting with an audience.
is so much more fun and there's somuch more flexibility and there's
so much more spontaneity that you cando, but it's also more vulnerable.
But I also never went theroute of ventriloquism.
It was just, I'm just going to go for it.
And at the time I was in a puppettheater where you didn't see me.
But then when you did, you mentionedright here, I am with the puppet.
I don't try to be a ventriloquistbecause I personally don't feel for
(07:19):
what I'm trying to do that it's needed.
I think the art of ventriloquismis amazing, but I think a lot of
times people feel like they have tobe a ventriloquist in order to work
with a puppet in a performance orin a classroom or any setting.
So I build upon that even sayingto kids, yeah, they're puppets.
This is what I do.
Put your hand up in the air,bend your wrist, go la la la.
And when you are open about thecreative process with kids, they
(07:40):
gravitate even that much moreto want to do it themselves.
you're not trying topull something over them.
It's, this is what I'm doing.
This is how you can do it.
And so all that long winded answer therealso leads to now both the physical
shows in person, but what we do throughthe television show, like Gwen was
mentioning how we interact and kids see,wait, I just interacted with this puppet
through a camera now and through thetechnology that allows that to happen.
(08:02):
there's just such a synergy, such anenergy and, I think I'd go back to just
saying it's practice, it's intuition,it's doing it over and over and over.
It's learning from others.
I've learned from a lot of puppeteers anda lot of musicians, children's musicians.
And, I'm rambling a long time here.
So I got to pause and just,
Randy (08:17):
You're doing great, so Gwen, it sounds like Wimee was created, right?
So, we've got Kevin, Michael andJoe all, working on creating this
world, creating this character.
where do you come in?
Like, when did you start workingwith this project and, and how
do you help breathe life into it?
Gwen (08:32):
So I had actually not heard of Wimee while I was, A student at
Grand Valley, which is crazy becauseWimee is all over Grand Rapids.
I have no idea how I missed it.
It was probably one of those thingswhere like I turned my head and
they unfurled the banner behind me.
Like it just felt like it had been theremy whole life and I hadn't seen it.
And I was working at WGVU as a ProductionAssisstant and I'm always, always
(08:52):
vocal to everybody that someday I'mgoing to work in children's programming.
I want to work in children'seducational television and
everyone was like, okay, great.
That's that's great.
Good for you.
but all of the people I workedwith the WGVU listen to me, and
they were very receptive and.
my boss, Skye, he was talking to me oneday, he was like, we're gonna go as a
group and we're gonna tour the studiowith this local puppeteer, and I really
(09:14):
think you should come, because, Ithink you're absolutely gonna love it.
And I was like, oh, sure, so I went withthem that day and we went down to the
Wimee studio slash store, which wasn'teven officially open yet and went in
and Kevin was there with Wimee and hejust introduced himself and talked for
probably like 20 30 minutes Just backand forth and I didn't say like a word.
I was just in awe I was immediatelylike a kid just entranced and I couldn't
(09:38):
believe how cool this was and how it washere in Grand Rapids and i'd never seen
it before So we went back to the studioAnd I told Sky, like, any time you guys
are working with him, I have to be there.
I have to be on set.
You have let me be a part of this.
And, he did.
And the first time that Kevin came in to.
record some stuff for the lastseason and the one that we're
currently doing of Wimee He waslike you need to come in today.
(09:59):
Kevin is working in the studioand we need a camera person I was
like, absolutely and that was it.
I went in that day had the most fun i'dever had working on a set and it was
just Kevin and me and one other PA andI had the most fun I've ever had and I
told Sky I need you to give me Kevin'semail I feel like I have to ask him if
he needs any help if he needs somebodyto create content for him And, sure
(10:21):
enough, Kevin responded, really quickly.
then I met Michael and fromthere, I basically just
asked, can I come work for you?
And they said, yes.
And that was last April.
And it's been an amazingwhirlwind ever since.
Randy (10:35):
That is put, I, the viewers, or the listeners can't see right now, but
I've got just this huge smile on my face,cause that is dreams coming true, right?
Like, that is incredible, and like,just to connect some dots here, right?
you are a student at Grand Valley,Kevin, you know, is an alumnus.
of Grand Valley.
You've both graduated.
WGVU is the, public media station, youknow, PBS, NPR, housed on the campus
(10:56):
of Grand Valley State University.
putting out this show, creating it,it's alumni working together in this
public media station at Grand Valley.
how has Grand Valleyplayed into your careers?
Like, creating this show, creatingthe artist that you are today?
Kevin (11:09):
I'll summarize it for me that I went to Grand Valley from
94 to 98 was a student studyingfilm and video production.
And as I was, there, I started exploringchildren's poetry, which then turned into
music and independently publishing books.
when I talk about that traveling worldand circuit of schools and libraries
and performances with puppets, itwas connected to books and songs.
(11:32):
I ironically kind of left the film andvideo world, so to speak, ironically
now has full circle came back to thevideo aspect, the multimedia aspect,
what I learned the root of being astudent at Grand Valley was how do
I access technology, tools, videopartnerships, collaborations, how
do you work with people to create?
. And I also did some corporate work.
(11:52):
I worked at GRTV for a while,videotaped weddings, et cetera.
but my experience of being a studentthere, in fact, very specific, teachers
to my English class, Cynthia Simpson, theEnglish, 150, I think it was I remember.
realizing how much fun creative writingcould be in a storymaking class from,
Margaret Proctor, was the professorof that class and Deanna Morse and
Suzanne Zack actually, who's connectedto this whole experience here.
(12:15):
non linear digital editing was just comingout and it was like one of the first
times I think they offered, you know,at the time it was the decks, right?
And the, uh, AB insert one, two,or that might've been a Nintendo
code or something there too,but A, B, up, down, left, right.
But, Just the change in the technology.
Right.
But the creative process ofcreating, of doing, of partnering.
so that that's my quick answer.
(12:37):
And now to circle back, in fact, Iremember taking, uh, media, was it media?
I forget the exact class, but Phil Lanewas one of the guys connected to that
class in the fall of 94, spring of 95.
Well, guess who we're working with rightnow at WGVU of one of the people it's Phil
Lane, So how amazing is that connection?
And I'll also say real quick, rightafter I graduated, it was about six
(12:57):
months later, I've met my now wife,Stephanie, we've been married 22 years.
her degree is in special educationfrom Grand Valley State University.
And it was a professorat Grand Valley who.
connected us.
That's how we met was a Grand Valleyprofessor Liz Story so the School of
Education and over the years too I'vebeen at a lot of the different things
that Grand Valley has done to celebrateliteracy conferences different programs
and workshops that things have happenedso lots of Grand Valley connection
(13:20):
Then yeah, so then like Gwen said,there we are in the studio one day.
And I want to say this real quicktoo, circling back when Gwen reached
out, I was so glad she did, and justbeen amazing with her, the balance of
what she can do technically, but alsounderstanding the children's media focus
in the purpose of what we're doing.
but.
She challenges us to say,why don't we do this instead?
(13:41):
This could be better.
she has a great balance of technicaland creative theatrical and singing
and her ukuleles coming out soon.
Workshops that she and my wife,Stephanie do with preschoolers
in Grand Rapids right now.
and yeah, I'm rambling again, butyour Grand Valley, connection story
Gwen (13:55):
Yeah.
I was Grand Valley from 2018 to2022 and I also had Suzanne Zack as
a professor, which was wonderful.
I got to have her, 2 separate times andthe final 1 was in Capstone and I felt
like my professors had all been reallyencouraging as me becoming a producer and
learning how to edit all of the skills.
But I feel like Suzanne was the 1st 1who listened to me when I said, I want to
work in children's educational programmingand she helped me to reach out and talk
(14:20):
with people who've created televisionshows before, or inspired me to reach
out to people and be brave and ask, todo, interviews and things like that.
And.
getting to hear from people who haddone it, getting to hear from people
who were in the industry made merealize only even more that I wanted to.
And what it made me realize even morewas that the only way I was going to be
able to do this was if I asked the rightquestions, if I asked the right people.
(14:42):
As long as I continue to be vocalabout my, wants for my career, I
feel like someone will listen andsomeone will be able to help me.
And that's exactly what Sky didat, WGVU, I wanted to work at WGVU
because the long term goal for me,I'd, I'd love to work at PBS Kids,
someday, I think that would be amazing.
And I was like, well, the closest thing tothat is PBS right here in Grand Rapids.
And I'm sure I can dosome amazing things there.
(15:03):
And I did get to, and I got to workwith amazing people and make the best
connections and grow my skill set.
so much more, evenoutside of Grand Valley.
And Skye did listen and hehelped me to find Wimee.
And I was brave enoughto ask the questions and.
take my shot and I'm so glad that I did.
And now it's all connected again andwe're working really closely with WGVU.
And I love all the people who workthere and just being in there and
(15:24):
just the idea that we get to filma show with them in collaboration.
it feels already full circle,like a tiny little circle.
I started there and just keep comingback around it's really a big
part of my life, which is amazing.
Randy (15:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I hear so much of my own experiencein the stories that both of you have told.
I, also started working atWGVU as a student eventually
graduated, worked there, startedmy own company, things like that.
and I work for Detroit Public Televisionand it's like WGVU being a place
that Grand Valley students can evenwork at was such a, like a creative
incubator, the fact that it's part ofthe campus and a place that's open to
(15:55):
students, I can't explain enough, , whata great place that has been to work.
I just feel how muchyou both love this work.
what is it, can you put that into words?
I hear you talking about Wimee, Ihear you talking about the effect
it's having on students, and, I cansee it on your faces, but what is it
about this work that you love the most?
Kevin (16:13):
For me.
all the above.
my brain is, wired to create, to makethings, to express things, but not
only to express things, but to have arelationship with who it's intended for.
When I started with poetry and music andpuppetry, when I finally realized the
shift my friend, Jim, actually, there'sso many people that are part of this
show, and we've alluded to some of it.
(16:34):
so while I'm on that real quick,I just want to mention Michael
Hyacinthe, who started it all, right?
They got the ball rolling andthen he and I and Stephanie.
we kind of went from doing thingsin person, to this virtual world.
And it was a result specificallyof COVID is what launched it.
And now four years later, here we are.
but Jim Dagg, who also has a bandcalled Scribble Monster out of the
Chicago area is a huge part of, this show.
(16:55):
And we can hopefully circle back tomore about him, but in the context
of what I'm thinking right now is.
He's shared this analogy in the pastwith me that just struck such a chord
that as an artist, as you perform inperson or interact with, whatever the
setting is, if you want to play a gameand you want to play catch, right, you
got to throw it to the other personand they have to throw it back to you.
And so that's why it's fun is you'rein this relationship of back and forth.
(17:17):
if you're just throwing these baseballsat kids or an audience or they're
no one's playing catch with you,they're just dodging from you, right?
Well, that's a very different experience.
And so I love that metaphor of justplaying catch with a kid, with an
audience, with a family, with a hugegroup or a small group, or in this
case, a virtual show that, how big thatinteraction level is, depends on the
technology and the details of all that.
(17:38):
but for me, that's where I just love tolive and breathe is that vulnerability
of that relationship and a lot ofstructure goes into that, right?
We have a very specific planof what we're going to do, yet
there's so much improv built in.
Kind of the yes and conceptof improv, right in the
musicality and the playfulness.
It's seeing the energy, the synergy, thosemoments where what is happening can
(17:59):
only happen because of the sum of allparts, the joy, the laughter, the fun.
to be able to combine puppetry withmusic, with collaboration, with wordplay,
, this just deeply resonates to be able todo this and have the opportunity to do it.
Gwen (18:12):
I grew up.
I love learning.
I just love the act of learning.
I love learning new informationabout all kinds of subjects,
and I've always been that way.
I'm a big nerd.
I'll always admit it.
I just, I love documentaries.
I love watching behind the scenes stuff.
I just love knowing things.
And I think, you know, my parentshelped foster that, and the school
district that I was in was wonderful,but I got it a lot from the television
shows that I watched growing up.
(18:32):
I watched a lot of PBS Kids growingup, and I just loved all of it.
And I especially loved the oneswhere there was puppets involved
or mixed media or other elementsthat really engaged me and kept me
interested and kept me wanting more.
And how did they do that?
How is that happening?
It's so cool.
And as I grew up, I didn'tknow, what I wanted to do.
Like most people, I jump back and forthbetween lots of things, but I always knew
(18:53):
that I loved learning and I wanted towork it into my career someday, somehow.
I knew I didn't really want to bea teacher, but I knew I wanted to
help foster that love of learning andeducation and others, especially kids.
I think that's my favorite part isthat every day that I'm creating stuff
for Wimee or working on the show, I amhopefully helping some kid out there
realize that they love learning too,and that they want to keep learning
and they want to go off and become adoctor or a lawyer, or become a teacher
(19:17):
or a farmer or whatever brings themjoy, whatever, lights them up inside.
Because what lights me up inside isgiving that opportunity to others.
it's so sweet and exciting and no, Ijust love every single second of it.
Randy (19:28):
That's so cool.
I'm so glad I got to hear that right now.
That's, that's awesome.
Randy Strobl (19:32):
This episode is brought to you by the Chuck
Peterson Memorial Fellowship.
The fellowship was established by ChuckPeterson's family and friends to assist
the upper-level students in the film andvideo program at GVSU who were working
on creative projects that support thenonprofit sector in their community.
Kyle Macciome, the 2020 recipient,of that fellowship describes the
benefits of the support he received
Kyle Macciome (19:53):
When going through this fellowship, there are three separate
parts of yourself that I think getto experience a lot of development.
The first is as a student, becausethis is a learning process.
You get to learn how to work witha client on your own independently,
out in the world, away from theclassroom, like you would in
something like producing for clients.
And the second one would be as a videomaker, as a video producer, as someone
(20:14):
who has respect for the work thatthey're doing and wants to improve on
themselves and produce a final productthat can be used out in the real world.
And then the third onewould be as a citizen.
You know, you're not making video foran entertainment value or for some
kind of commercial purpose, it's for anon-profit it's for a direct benefit in
your community and being a citizen ofthat community, understanding how you
(20:34):
can directly impact and improve it, um,is a really valuable experience that
I think the fellowship teaches you tobe as, as a student, as a filmmaker
and as a citizen, all three of thosethings are directly a part of this
process that you get to learn and askyourself, how do I want to be seen?
And how do I want to actas these three roles?
Randy Strobl (20:54):
For more information and to donate to the scholarship, visit the link
in the description now back to the show
Randy (21:00):
So we're talking a lot about education.
We're talking about, creating things.
But let's also talkabout filmmaking, right?
So storytelling, let's talkabout the format of the show.
How do you put together, a story?
How do you convey who this character is?
what are some of the nuts and boltsthat a film student listening to
this might want to know more about?
Kevin (21:18):
Yeah.
I think it'd be fun, Gwen, for usto give the structure of the show
and the technology and the formatof how we do that and the process.
And I think you'll also notice, aswe chat about this, that you'll see
it's pretty much bare bone concept.
And part of that is just areflection of technology these days.
It's very different.
You don't need a full blowntelevision studio, right?
but we'll get into the veryspecific of an episode.
(21:38):
but I think what got us to thispoint to make sense to, give a
little bit of that background.
So Michael, who started the appWimage, which is meant to be 'Words
to Images' said, you know, let'screate this character Wimee, right?
And so we were using the app, which isyou input a word, you see an image, you
change the color, you can make it sizebigger, smaller, you add layers, you
know, you can create a compositionfrom word to word to word and design
(22:00):
and really cool concept of, let'svisualize thoughts, and create something
with the, with this resources tool.
So we then started going into schools,doing workshops where we would use the
app, use the puppet, create a song,play with songs, different concepts.
it eventually led to creating the firstbook that created the groundwork to
the concept of what we were trying todo to inspire kids, to create things
visually, to play, to have fun, to createan environment that, kids are excited
(22:22):
about, So when COVID shut everythingdown, we were in the middle of doing
a whole district wide kind of thing.
PNC Grew up Great wasfunding it, et cetera.
And we, at first just put on the camerawith Wimee, the robot, this puppet, right?
It was simply Facebook.
It was simply hit go live.
And here I am.
In fact, Wimee do you want to share?
Wimee (22:39):
Wait, wait a minute.
Okay.
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember.
Yeah.
The camera was on and I was just like,Hey friends, what should we talk about?
Uh, and then people would post commentsand then I would see them and then
we'd be like, Oh yeah, let's sing.
And we do these songs and we wouldjust sing a song like down by
the bay, down by the bay, right?
And then they would say frog.
And I'd go like, Oh yes.
Do you ever see a frog?
(22:59):
Who started to jog?
Ha ha ha ha!
What's another animal?
And then we'd wait for the comment,
and I go, Oh, so and so, causeI could call them out and
say, well, that's, thank you.
Okay.
Did you ever see a whale?
Kevin (23:10):
All right.
So again, these patternbased concepts, right?
Of songs and wordplay and interactivity.
And so now fast forward, right?
From just one camera and a puppet.
Sorry, Wimee.
I'm going to take over.
Okay.
Um, so, uh, we then from theresaid, okay, how do we improve this?
How do we go further?
This is where now we canget into a technical thing.
a friend of mine who performs underthe name Uno Dos Tres Andres, he and
(23:33):
his wife, Christina are incrediblemusicians and they're absolutely amazing.
and we're fortunate to know them.
And when they saw this little livething we were doing, it's like,
Oh, you got to use StreamYard.
So for those of you who know whatStream Yard is, you're gonna go, yes.
For those of you saying,what is Stream Yard?
Think of it as like, rightnow we're on Zoom, right?
Facilitating this broadcast.
there's teams, there's Google Meet,there's all these platforms, right?
(23:54):
Stream Yard is meant to be, not likeall these cameras come on and everybody
controls their view and you and the mic.
Like, you gotta mute your microphone.
Come on.
Right?
That kinda scenario, it createsbasically an online virtual television.
broadcast system it's a structurethat allows, okay, different cameras.
We can put in video clips, we can putin music tracks, we can put in images.
(24:16):
basically now that platform, we startedfiguring out how do we start putting
this into segment to segment to segmentand develop the little video, the pre
roll intro, the graphic, the overlay,in essence, start to build the show.
Gwen, why don't you kind of fastforward to what we're on now.
in the structure, you're the one behindthe scenes running, Okay, this, do
this, and I just get to sit therewith the puppet and make some records.
Gwen (24:39):
Yeah, it's very similar for anyone who's ever been inside of a
television studio or maybe just seen one.
They have those giant switcher boards.
It's very much like that, but waymore streamlined, a lot easier to
learn, and you don't accidentallyhit the wrong button unknowingly and
broadcast something live to the air.
You know exactly what you're lookingat with StreamYard, and so Kevin
(24:59):
will be back there with the puppet,and then I'm sitting five feet away.
From him, at the table with Stephanie andwe're both running different parts of it.
My main job is to pull in the differentsegments and to record the show.
And then we use the Wimageboard live during the show.
And so as Kevin creates this threesentence story with Wimee, I will
put it up on the screen and I'llanimate it and it'll be super fun.
(25:20):
And we do all of that live.
what we're doing right now is, we havelike this little tiny television studio
basically all inside of our computersthat we're using in our studio downtown.
We then send that to WGVU, andthey take that and they air that,
all over their broadcast radius.
Kevin (25:36):
One thing I'll, add in real quick too, is there was a lot of
conversations and trust establishedbefore, I love how, you say that,
Gwen, like, Oh yeah, they just threwit up on the air and, uh, here we go.
and Phil, Phil's probablylistening, he's like, No!
That's not, don't start saying, right?
But, but we did actually like three tofour hundred episodes on Facebook the
(25:57):
way, and StreamYard kind of allows you tosend the signal to different platforms.
We ultimately had to use Facebook andYouTube and different things because that
was the only option for the interactivity.
Well, what happened was, and thisis a good time I think to mention,
a partnership with, Josh Freenyand the different organizations
and companies that he's part of.
Also, I want to mention, Kent DistrictLibrary is a huge part of this.
\, there's so many peopleinvolved in this process.
(26:18):
I work for Kent District Library as abookmobile operator and in the outreach.
And when we launched this during COVIDthe partnerships of how all these pieces
work together, as we were kind of justfiguring out how do we serve our community
or the people that we're working with,interacting with, how do we do this and
how can that spread into other projectsthat we're doing, other resources and
videos projects and summer reading.
And we had a business expothing we did for a while, right.
(26:40):
Kind of learning this process.
And as we were continuing tobuild we started saying to Phil
at WGVU, what could this look like?
And when Gwen mentioned the broadcaststudio, so to speak, is in a computer,
when Mark, one of the engineers at WGVUwas brought into the equation of, okay,
we want to explore how could we do this?
His first question was, well, where'syour master output video signal, the cord,
(27:00):
like where HDMI, what are you sending?
Where's your master output?
And we said, well, there, there is none.
Like, well, what are you talking about?
you're doing this multicamera live production thing.
Like send me the master out.
We got to get it into this.
And he had like a conversion boxthat when they go out and do live,
like they have a truck, right.
That goes out and does liveproduction and they send the
signal as the master output.
And I kept saying, well, there,there is no master output.
(27:21):
It's just this stream yard.
com slash one, two, seven, five.
Like it was like, well,that's not going to work.
And that's where Josh Trini andhis resources and team, we figured
out there's a huge learning curve.
And Josh very specifically was the oneto say, I think I know how this can work.
was this middle person to say.
Okay.
If we go from StreamYard to this thirdparty thing, which involves servers,
which involves this, and then, which Iguess kind of over my head, what he did
(27:44):
is why I'm just like servers and somecomputers and some enter some numbers.
And right.
But Mark and Josh were the ones thatworked a long time to figure this out.
But then the reality was.
It's working.
And it involved also a box over attheir end with WGVU and how it came in.
But then the other thing too, a bigthing was there has to be live captioning
there's a lot of technical rules, right?
And it's good, but it's,okay, how do we do this?
(28:06):
And so once all this trial and errorin figuring out how this could work and
trying some other things in additionto what we landed on, and so when we
first launched it last fall, everythingwas web based for like two and a half,
three years, and this was the firsttime saying, and by the way, I should
say those web based episodes wouldbecome edited, which would then be.
sent to WGVU different stationsin Michigan and other parts of the
(28:26):
country, as well as then exploringlarger distribution channels
of how digital content can getdistributed to public television.
It was expanding through the PBSworld, as recorded content still
based on live content, but recorded.
So the question of how do we golive opened up a huge can of worms.
And so when we first didit, we didn't announce it.
We didn't say anything becausewe didn't know if it was
going to just completely fail.
(28:46):
Cause we also had to figure out, okay,go into your live and you know, five,
four, three, two, one, you're live.
And then you're out.
Cause we never had a time limitof you have to be done at 26
minutes and 42 seconds, right?
Cause it goes to the next thing.
it was just a big learning curve.
And again, the, the synergy ofall the people trying to do this.
And, and after the first episode,when we finished live, we all
kind of paused like, did it work?
(29:07):
And, and so then we continued doingthe live ones and now we're returning,
to do the next, another set of liveepisodes and so we're going to continue
to expand it and learn from each otherand, and learn where it's all going to go.
And you know, it, it takes alot of energy and sponsorship
and funding and it's a big can ofworms to how to really do this.
. Randy: Gwen, two main themes that I just heard Kevin talk about are, about
(29:29):
a lot of learning curves and I heardhim talk a lot about collaboration.
So to me, some of the biggest lessonsthat I learned from Grand Valley were
just how to learn, how to be curiousand how to work with other people
that might know some of those answers.
Can you talk to that like what weresome scenarios and classes what were
some lessons that you brought thatreally helped you do what you do
and create this new format for TV.
Gwen (29:51):
I think that's one of the things that the Grand Valley film program
does really, really well is puttingyou in lots of situations where you're
learning how to collaborate withall sorts of different people and
you're problem solving constantly.
And, they don't throw you in thedeep end and say, here you go, but
a little bit, they're like, you needto go off and learn how to do this.
And we'll be there tohelp you if you need us.
But, a lot of classes, I think thefirst taste of that was, Media 2.
(30:12):
They kind of start letting you doprojects on your own, but they, pair
you up with random people, and you're,like, I don't know if we're gonna
work together, and, then it just keepsgetting bigger, and, through, the Doc
classes, and Fiction 1 and Fiction2, you're creating, whole films,
sometimes, feature length, or shorts.
And you're doing thingsyou've never done before.
you're trying to like, you'regetting permissions for these things.
You're figuring out whatkind of cameras, what kind of
(30:34):
lighting, and can I even do this?
Can I make this vision come to life?
Because everybody in the Grand Valleyfilm program likes to dream big.
Like that's, that's one ofthe things we're best at.
And so we all dream big together.
And then we step back and we'relike, Oh, how do we make that happen?
And you want to make it happenfor each other because you've
spent all this time growing andcollaborating and making friends and
making these film groups together.
And so you want to, realize thosedreams and see them come to life.
(30:55):
And I see that in Wimee all the time.
we have lots of things thatI've never even thought could be
possible that we're doing withtelevision and with programming.
And.
we have big dreams, but it doesn't stopus from coming up with big solutions.
we're really endlessly creative.
And that's because of all of theamazing partners and the sponsors
and all of the really coolpeople that we get to work with.
But I definitely don't know if Iwould have the grit or the, the want
(31:18):
to keep solving those problems ifI hadn't been put in very similar
situations when I was in college.
Randy (31:23):
Yeah.
Kevin I was hearing you talk alittle about pattern based learning.
How much does research playinto what you're doing?
How much are you learningabout how kids learn?
And learn how toresearch at Grand Valley?
how do you go about making sure?
Kevin (31:37):
That's a perfect setup for talking about Stephanie.
My wife has her degree in specialeducation from Grand Valley.
And so she is the backbone to theeducational aspects combined with
KDL staff, librarians, Kalane Mish,is, is also part of the educational
aspect, Jim, who I mentioned as afellow colleague and performer, and
(31:58):
he's part of the show on camera as well.
and his wife is, has adoctorate in education.
And so.
All of us just have a lot of experience indifferent ways that we bring to the table.
And when we don't know things,we look up curriculums.
We look up things with partnersin Kent County, the Great Start
Collaborative, First Steps Kent,the Head Start of Kent County.
We're always interacting and engaging.
(32:18):
And I think Kent District Libraryin particular, and the librarians.
the sum of all the parts, butspecifically Stephanie, for me is usually
my first go to, or she is the one whoruns a lot of these things to begin with.
It's rooted in experience and knowledgeand, we reach out to ask for help
when we are in over our head, onething that I think that ties into
this is we kind of started to go herewhen it talks about the actual show.
(32:40):
when you talk about education, westart every show with what's
called a pattern based song.
so it's like Down by the Baythat I was singing earlier.
We've just established a structure thatwe know works and we have, the curriculum
connections to what we're doing and why.
Once it's been established, wethen build upon those concepts.
We haven't finished this yet, butwe're getting close to, having what we
call an Explore More with Wim ee page.
(33:01):
So the concept is that not only are youinteracting with these pattern based
songs, the three sentence story that,Gwen alluded to earlier, we write a
story with a beginning, a middle, and end.
set the scene in the first sentence,there's a problem in the second,
and then a solution in the third.
So it's showing and expressing thestory writing process, the arc,
which is very relevant to filmmakingwhen you talked about that aspect
and like, how do you, craft a story.
(33:21):
How do you write the script?
so we kind of boil it down tojust beginning, middle and end.
And we do that every episode.
So hopefully kids experiencing that,not only see their ideas in the story,
if they're part of the, the threewords that are chosen, they just have
it built into them, that concept.
And then we do things like the,alphabet game where we just think
of words that start with a certainletter, very standard concepts, but
done in a playful, quirky, fun way.
Randy (33:43):
Gwen, as film people, right?
Like, we're a little bit techie.
can you kind of go through, like, whatare some of, , the cameras you're using?
what does your studio looklike, out there in, Wimee world?
Gwen (33:52):
So, you know, you go into a television studio that they have
these big, amazing, giant camerasthat are, like, hooked into the walls
and there's wires and everything.
actually use two very nice webcams.
those are our main cams thatwe use for our show, and we've
tried using other cameras before.
And what we've actually found is that wecan't get that same really fun, loving
(34:12):
quality that we can with these veryspecific webcams that we have been using.
And so.
Then Kevin has a microphone that helike you'll see on some puppeteers.
He'll tape to his headand he'll wear a hat.
So it stays in place and it's a verynice, but it's a very tiny, tiny little
microphone, but it picks up great audio.
And his is really the only audiothat we need because we get all the
rest of it from inside of StreamYard.
So we have a very basicsetup, but what we're able to
(34:35):
accomplish with it is amazing.
And it's television quality.
It's shown on televisionall over the country.
And it's really funny to thinkthat, you know, you go from the
studio with these giant big camerasdown to these little tiny ones.
And I've worked with camerasof every size in between.
but these ones are helping deliverthe kind of quality show that we want.
even though they're not maybeas high tech as some of
(34:55):
the other stuff we've used.
It's exactly what the showneeds to be successful.
I had never worked with webcams a lotbefore this, but I've learned a lot as
we've learned how to adjust them and makethem look the best that we possibly can.
Kevin (35:07):
I think I'd piggyback on that real quick too.
You know, more light youflood on something, right?
Without overexposing it, obviously,but there's, just, light, light, light,
lights, you know, aimed on these puppets.
So the webcam, because of the lightingas well, piggybacking together.
And with it being one basic shot withthe colorful background and desk, We
don't need super, super great cameras.
(35:27):
We, may expand more camerasor more shots or more angles.
And I think what I was gonna sayalso was just because the world
that we now live in, the concept ofinteractiveness and zoom and meetings
and stuff, There's just a different,aesthetic is also accepted in a way
it wasn't, you know, 10, 20 years ago.
like Gwen said, the cameras pulloff what we need them to pull off.
(35:47):
But also I think what I'm referring tois just the structure of the show itself
being a live variety show concept.
It's just, different, I thinksubconsciously you understand what
we're doing requires the internetand live cameras going back and
forth and engaging in a way thatis different from watching a studio
production we think of from the past.
Randy (36:06):
I'm sitting here just so fascinated by all of this, You
are, creating the coolest things.
We're, we're kind of heading towardsthe end here, , let's jump into the
time machine real quick, and, , goback to, as you are now, right?
So right now you're you're successful,you're creating incredible media,
people across the state, across thecountry talking about how cool this is.
Going back, talking to yourself, you know,as a freshman in college, starting out
(36:27):
at Grand Valley, what advice do you have?
What encouragement do you have?
Like, what do you say to,young Gwen, to young Kevin?
Gwen (36:34):
I think one of the big ones for me is I wouldn't get to be working with
the amazing people I work with now orcreating the wonderful things that I
get to create if I hadn't been brave andasked if I could be a part of that team.
I could have just worked with thatone environment or whenever he
came in and really enjoyed it andenjoyed that part of it, but I knew
there could be more if I tried.
(36:55):
And I would encourage any single personwho thinks that they may have a shot
at something if only they just asked,if only they just took their shot.
Absolutely 100 percent do it.
Networking is huge and it'simportant and it's wonderful.
And because I was able to make thoseconnections with WGVU and everybody,
I was introduced to Kevin, butthere's an extra step after that.
Once you meet everybody, onceyou have all the numbers
(37:16):
and the names, you have to.
ask for what you want, you have toreach out to those people, those
connections that you've made andsee what they can help you do.
and if you have made a good enoughconnection with them, hopefully they
can help you and and move on with yourcareer and experience amazing things.
So I would just tell her to work hard.
and learn how to collaborate andtry a little bit of everything.
(37:36):
And then once you're comfortable,even when you're uncomfortable,
ask for what you want and seewhat they're able to give you.
Kevin (37:42):
I love how you said that, Gwen.
And you know, it was the perfectconnection too, because we could
have been at a place where we justdidn't have capacity, but it was
actually, tell us more about you.
We want to see what youdo and what you offer.
I t's the combination of yes, seeking outand also knowing that you will get no's
along the way, but to not then give upand or to circle back or to follow up.
I think the persistence of following up.
(38:03):
And now, obviously too, as you startedworking with us and we keep saying
like, Oh, Gwen could do this and this,you're proving how much you're capable
of and you're, just making it somuch better, with what we're doing.
Just don't give up, keep going, whichyeah, connects to what Gwen said too.
Just put yourself out there.
But it doesn't mean it'sit's easy and simple.
And everything's allrolling along smoothly.
one thing I want to answer yourquestion, also I think this goes back
(38:24):
to surrounding yourself with people.
And the collaborative team, you know,Michael, when he started all this and
where it's at now is mind boggling.
and very much in the creativemode, much more than the business
entrepreneur logistics mode.
And so.
Michael pursues that and is pursuingthe bigger things and the next
things, and as I'm, surrounded byKent District Library and Josh and
people and Phil and the studio WGVU.
(38:46):
Collaboration is so key.
I was able to graduate from GrandValley, for it, independently
try to make things work.
Lots of struggling, lots ofchallenges in life and all the pieces
right, but you just keep going andyou keep knowing when to pivot.
It's to just not give up, to keep going,connect with people that add to what
you offer, that think differently thanyou do because, having the different
(39:06):
perspectives, the different skills, thedifferent, characteristics that they bring
to the table just make things better.
Randy (39:12):
Well, check this out.
So, so we're not live in the sameway that Wimee's live, so I don't
have that on screen interactionlike you do for your show.
But I do have an on screen chat here fromSuzanne, who was your former professor.
And she says here, the thingabout Kevin is that he was
different than other students.
He was creating outside thebox, which takes courage,
and that he makes it happen.
He trusted himself.
(39:33):
I mean, it, it sounds like you weremaking projects back when you were
in school that were getting thegreen light from inside of you.
And it sounds like the projectsyou're doing now, you're still
giving yourself the green light.
And what is the value in that?
Where, where does thatdrive even come from?
Kevin (39:47):
I think for me, the creative process combined with the, internal
desire to put yourself out there,whether it's applying for a
job or creating your own path.
It comes down to trusting yourinstinct, trusting who you are, trusting
what you're trying to do, knowingthat it is incredibly hard and the
(40:09):
days are going to be fruitful thatfeel overwhelming and frustrating.
Randy (40:13):
But there is something to that though, right?
who else could have made this show?
Who else could have created W imeeit's not that you were trying to make
something else that was out there.
Like you weren't trying to makethat chase scene you were making.
Kevin (40:24):
I think if you trust your instincts and you think big and you
go for it and you surround yourselfwith diverse thinking, you know,
people that think similar anddifferent to you and have different
personalities and skills and traits.
When you trust your instinct and yousurround yourself by a variety of
people and you just keep going, yousometimes look back and go, huh,
(40:46):
wow, we're here, we're doing this.
And there's always going to bethe, it could be so much bigger,
like you look and you think, oh, itcould be a thousand times bigger.
But yet, This is where it's atand to be grateful, to be in the
moment, to keep it in perspectiveand just day by day, just keep going.
That's what I'm ultimatelytrying to do each day.
Randy (41:05):
Question just came to my mind so, so, so much of the world
seems to be expanding outward.
The world seems to be getting smaller.
shows are becoming morenational, more international.
And yet, local television, especiallylocal public broadcasting, is something
that's still very strong let's talk alittle bit about local versus big time.
Like what can you do locally?
Kevin (41:24):
Yeah, you know, with what we're doing with the show, we very specifically
have been partnering with the John BallZoo, with the Grand Rapids Children's
Museum, , we have rotating segments onthe show, and we have the very specific
segments, but one of the rotating onesis called Kid Chat, and we record it at
the Children's Museum, and so we wantto continue that concept, and we want to
continue creating more concepts where, wevery intentionally call out here in Grand
(41:45):
Rapids as a local show that is viewedon a larger scale, but we want people
here to know they can be part of it.
Like they have the opportunity,through the website, just reaching
out to us, people can find us and say,Hey, how could we be part of this?
You know, as we're creating theshow, people will recognize things
from the Grand Rapids community.
They'll know they can go downtown inGrand Rapids here on Ottawa Avenue,
(42:07):
where this actual studio is thestore, you can come and be part of it.
So we try to be where the localcommunity can be part of it.
And we then can represent ourcommunity to the world, right?
Who's watching it and interacting.
And we want to continue to be ableto do things in person, you know,
performances that are in person.
There's a mascot of Wimee, the puppetof Wimee, the workshops Gwen and Steph
(42:27):
go out into right now, and they're goinginto Grand Rapids Public Preschools,
doing things with the Wimee character,with technology, with the Wimage board.
So it is very much rooted and basedhere, and we plan to keep it that way.
And, know, as it expands to withdifferent segments, we could do, you
know, who knows, like we're talkingabout everything where it's at
right now, but where is it going tobe in six months in a year, right?
That's the thing we werekind of talking about.
Like, look, what is possible?
(42:48):
We don't know what's possiblein a few months from now.
And, the whole AI world, right?
That is something also we'restepping into and, the whole new
partnership that's unfolding there.
And so we want to respondto what the community wants.
I think, right.
If, some organization reached outand said, Hey, could we do this?
We're going to do everything wecan to say, let's explore it.
. Randy: What are you seeing?
Like, are you seeing that happenwith local Grand Rapids kids?
Gwen (43:10):
Yeah, we, like Kevin was talking about, will go out in the community and
do Kid Chats and things, and some of thosekids have never heard of Wimee before, but
we had a couple who were really big Wimeefans, and they heard about this open call
to come and be a part of the show, andthey came, and it was amazing, and we have
kids who come into the studio sometimes,we're like, Who they know who Wimee is.
They already have Wimee on their shirt.
(43:31):
They they're holding the, when youplush in their hand, it's part of
their lives, they read the books,they watch the show, they interact.
It's crazy to me, that, we're makingsomething that when I was little, it's
like meeting Blues Clues, like ifBlues Clues lived downtown from you.
That's what I imagine it feels likefor some of these kids, it's crazy.
They're meeting something thatis so influential in their lives.
I don't think sometimes we think hhow big Wime e probably is in some of
(43:52):
these kid's lives in their world andhow often they think about it and how
much they will think about it as theycontinue to grow up and the little
things that they'll pull from it.
And hopefully will use as theygrow into the amazing people
that they're going to become.
I think it's really special.
And I think only local televisioncan give you that kind of feeling
in that kind of experience.
That feels very homegrown, but alsovery expandable and relatable worldwide.
Randy (44:14):
Hey, we got new season of Wimee coming out you said March 1st, right?
Get in the chat, ask Wimee somequestions, participate, I recommend
any of the students listening to this.
To watch Wimee
Kevin (44:23):
Thank you, Randy, this has been so much fun!
And Gwen, it's so fun to be workingwith you over this last year, and
how this whole adventure's going.
Randy (44:31):
Well, you both and the whole team are just doing incredible work
and I am just so glad to have gone tothe same university as both of you.
So thank you so much.
Kevin (44:39):
That's very kind.
Thank you, Randy.
This was fun.
Let's do it again.
Gwen (44:42):
Thank you, Randy.
Randy (44:45):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Alumni Live
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about the
Grand Valley State University FilmVideo Alumni Network is here for
(45:06):
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
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