October 15, 2024 • 44 mins
Host Randy Strobl (2012) talks with JiL Szewsk (2007)i and Jamie Bartkowicz (2014) about their work in the Art Department in Los Angeles for films, television, and themed entertainment.
LINKS:
The Essential Art Department
Jamie Bartkowicz
JiL Szewski
https://lightscameraart.com/
GVSU F/V Alumni Facebook
GVFVAlum Instagram
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
LINKS:
The Essential Art Department
Jamie Bartkowicz
JiL Szewski
https://lightscameraart.com/
GVSU F/V Alumni Facebook
GVFVAlum Instagram
To learn about ways you can support GVSU film and video students:
- The Dirk Koning Memorial Film and Video Scholarship
- The Chuck Peterson Memorial Fellowship
- Morse-Cuppy Film, Video, Animation Study Abroad Endowed Scholarship
- GVSU F/V Alumni: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gvsufilmvideoalumni
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome to Alumni Live (00:00):
The Podcast.
(00:02):
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of alumni live, the podcast.
I'm host Randy Strobl and today we'retalking careers in the art department.
We have two excellent alumni here.
We've got Jamie Bartkowicz.
(00:22):
Hi, Jamie.
And we've got JiL SzewskiJiL how you doing?
Hey there.
So let's get right into it.
We're talking of course todayabout different art departments,
different ways you've applied yourGrand Valley degree to your careers.
Just broad level, let's startwith what is your current job And
what do you love about your work?
Let's start with Jamie.
Yeah, so I currently work atWalt Disney Studios as an Asset
(00:44):
Coordinator for physical production.
So that means I basically get towork on all the live action films
for Disney Live Action, 20th CenturyFox, and Searchlight Pictures.
It's more of a management type job where Iget to work with the heads of departments
for costumes, props set dressers andmanage all of the fun things that they
build and buy for the films and workwith them throughout production and
(01:06):
then become the keeper of it at the end.
JiL Szewski tell us about what you do.
What do you love about your work?
I work as a set decoration co lead person.
I work closely with the setdecorator to come up with budgets
for individual sets and episodes.
I track budgets and I'm also in chargeof clearances, making sure everything
on screen we have permission to use.
(01:28):
So if I'm hearing it correctly, wehave brought in two different ends
of the art department spectrum here.
So we've got Jamie really workingwith the look the feel and then
we've got JiL making sure allof that can happen it can work.
We've got logistics.
We've got schedules budgets thethings that make what we see on tv
and on screens and movies rightSo we're looking at art departments.
(01:52):
What is an art departmenton a film, on TV?
What do you do?
You have your production designerwho creates the look and the
overall feel of the show.
The production designer worksclosely with the director.
If it's a TV show, they workwith a director and a showrunner.
Once that idea is formulated, artdepartment works with construction to
(02:15):
build the sets, communicate with setdecoration to make it feel real, look
lived in, add those layers, and then alsoprops is part of that equation as well.
Making sure the props functionwith the overall look of the show.
So you're talking, wegot construction, right?
We got nails in wood, puttingthese things together.
(02:38):
Jamie, can you take that broad viewand just narrow in on one scenario
in the last week or two that you likewe're dealing with pulling all of
those pieces together where we reallysaw the art department collaborating
in all those different functions.
Yeah actually today I had to pull abunch of stuff for insert shoots, so
I had a bunch of different HODs, orheads of departments, contact me saying
(02:59):
this is the scene we're doing, we needto pull all these things and there's
a lot of collaboration there becausethere were tables that were a part of
the set that we needed to pull, butthen there were things on the tables
that were technically part of the propsbecause the actors interact with it,
so we had to make sure we had that.
There was even a prop that'salso technically a costume piece.
So there's a lot of crossover in thosedepartments and a lot of times those
(03:21):
departments have to work togetherto figure out who's handling what
and are those things going to workwith what they're responsible for?
So that was just like a very, easy exampleof something that I had to do today is
make sure I had all the pieces from allthe different departments to make sure
that everything came together for theinsert shoots that we're trying to do.
JiL, I'm going to throw that back to you.
What did your day in thelife look like today?
What stuff were you working on?
(03:41):
I mean, if you can talk about it, can'ttalk about it, but broad, broad, broad.
That looks at what happened today.
So today, thankfully we wrapped, so Ijust finished a project called Based on
a True Story, Season 2 for NBC Peacock.
My day can consist of, you know,say a new script comes out.
I go through the script, Ibreak it down, I figure out
(04:03):
what sets we need to budget for.
I talk to my decorator, I talk to my leadperson, we work together to formulate
a budget that's going to get approved,and then once it's approved, we start
renting things, we start buying thingsand make that set come together with
the vision of the Production Designer.
(04:25):
That's cool.
That is so cool.
Jamie, when you're pulling together thelook, the feel of, of these sets and,
and this world, are you doing a lot oflike scrolling through images online?
Are you going to places?
How much are you in theoffice, out of the office?
So my job with Walt Disney now is I kindof took a different route a couple years
ago and came over to the studio side.
(04:45):
So, less creative, more management andworking on the studio side and making the
studio happy is what way I should say it.
So I'm not really the one putting togetherthe look, but I am managing everything
that is getting put into the look.
So yeah, I'm scrolling, I'm gettinga lot of documents, I'm getting a lot
of rap books, I'm getting a lot ofexcel sheets, and so I need to know
where everything is and how to pullit, what boxes it's in, I have to store
(05:09):
it half the time and things like that.
It's a little bit different.
I would call it art
department adjacent I am nottechnically in the art department.
I am on the studiocorporate side of things.
so if I'm a freshman or a prospectivestudent at Grand Valley and I'm
thinking like this is a really funthing to be doing, What are the skills?
Like when did you know that youwere kind of going into this world?
(05:29):
How did you know?
Like what got you to where you are now?
I actually got started working on set asa set PA for production running around
with a walkie getting people coffees,picking up trash yelling rolling and cut.
But the great thing aboutworking with set, that's where
you can meet everybody, right?
You see property department puttingthings into the hands of talent.
(05:53):
You see sound miking up talent.
You see the set decoratorcoming in to approve the set.
that's where you get to see everythinghappen, everything come together.
So that gave me this great opportunityto kind of shop my career being able
to watch how everybody works andlike, oh, that's really fascinating
or, I like how they did this.
And then I got to ask questions.
(06:14):
So, PAing turned into likePAing for the art department.
Learning how to art departmentcoordinate, which is a lot
of management side of things.
And then moving over to setdecoration department getting
my foot in the door there.
And I've currently been workingwith the same set decoration
(06:35):
team for about six years now.
It's been really fun, really fun.
But I I definitely started groundlevel Production Assistant.
You can start as a PA in any department.
It gives you the bestviewpoint to learn from.
It's so interesting.
And just a real quick definition.
What is the set decoration department?
The set decoration department isa branch of the art department.
(06:58):
The set decoration department is theone who fills in the sets with your
sofas, textiles, drapery, to makethat set feel real, feel lived in.
We call it adding the livablelayers, because you got to
make it look real, right?
So that's set decoration.
So I got to watch what set dec wasdoing , and it wasn't always like
(07:22):
these high end glamorous sets.
Sometimes it was really dingy alleywaysbut they had the resources to make
it look real and dingy and I feellike there's such a skill in that.
That is absolutely a skilland I appreciate it every time
I see an image is like that.
I was just watching a show two days agoand I was like, that looks like a place
(07:44):
I could walk into and just lose myself.
Jamie and JiL, correct me if I'mwrong, but it sounds like you had
some kind of like clear steps , itwas kind of a linear progression.
You honed in on where you are now.
Is that?
Is that kind of what I'm hearing there?
So I originally was interested inassistant directing, working on the
production side, working closely withthe director which I had the opportunity
(08:05):
to do, which I loved cause it's alot of time management, juggling the
business side of things versus thecreative side of things, being that
task manager to push the schedule andthe crew forward to accomplish what
you're trying to film for the day.
I loved it.
But then I got pulled backinto the art department cause I
(08:25):
just needed that creative fix.
And once I got into the art department,I did go back and forth between
assistant directing and art department.
So it wasn't really, I wouldn'tsay a clear step, but I'm thankful
for the path because that'show I got to where I am today.
(08:46):
I feel like after you clarified thatthe messiness of that career going
back and forth things like that.
That sounds pretty relatable.
Jamie, do you relate to that?
What was your path?
How did you get to where you are today?
So while I was at school in GrandValley, I was very interested in the
art department, but didn't reallyhave the classes or anything too
much to like pursue that fully.
So when I moved out to LA I was alsojust like trying, started from the
(09:07):
bottom, wanted to be a PA on a set,got to work with different departments,
including the art department.
And then my career took a weird turn whereI randomly got a gig at Universal Studios
Hollywood, the theme park.
I was working part time there, becauseLA is expensive, and I was offered a
(09:27):
job with their entertainment productiondepartment for just like a short
time gig as Production Coordinator.
And I very quickly learned that myfilm skills translated over into
themed entertainment and live events.
And so I took the job there, and thenI just got sucked into that world.
I ended up loving it.
I worked on an event called HalloweenHorror Nights, which is a very big haunted
(09:48):
house event that Universal puts on.
And so I went and started goinginto production management.
And then after about a year of medoing that, they hired me full time.
I was like, oh wait, Imissed the art department.
And I would talk with the ArtDirectors and stuff on the event and
for that department all the time,and, one day just presented myself
to them and was like, actually, thisis what I originally wanted to do.
(10:09):
This is what I have alittle bit of background in.
I would like to try and moveover to your department.
And the two Art Directors became mymentors and then just took me under
their wing, which is very lucky . Myshort term gig at Universal Studios
turned into seven years of workingthere, where I shifted over to the art
department and started off as their ArtCoordinator, and by the time I left, I
was an Associate Production Designer.
(10:31):
So I was there until November of 2021,but burnout is real and post pandemic
burnout is super real, so I decidedthat there was a lot of things that
I wasn't happy with in my careerand just wanted a change of pace.
And during the pandemic, I actually waslaid off for a bit, and so I went back
into film because there was a lot offilm jobs, surprisingly booming in LA and
(10:54):
union jobs were still looking for people.
And so I was working on union shows,even though I was not union and
getting permits and I was workingin art department back in film.
And so near the end of 2021,I decided to leave universal
and try and go back into film.
And then I was offered a jobat Walt Disney Studios, where I
am now, which is very differentjob title, very different job.
(11:15):
But it was something that I felt likeI needed to do to reset and figure out
where my career path is going from there.
And so now two and a half yearslater, and I'm still trying to
figure it out, but that's just
life, and and I have a feeling alot of people listening to this
will understand and relate to that.
Yeah, it's very normal.
It's
also kudos to you to going upto those two Art Directors and
(11:36):
saying, I want to join your teams.
Was that, what did that feel like?
Were you nervous?
How did
yeah,
go?
I was very nervous.
it's funny because now afterso many years of being in the
business, I'm very outspoken.
A piece of advice that someoneonce gave me was, you can't be
quiet about what you want to do.
You can't be quiet about it.
And being from the Midwest,I don't talk about myself.
I was very quiet.
I thought it was rude if I talkedabout me and my dreams and aspirations.
(11:59):
I was an observer.
I was there to learn.
But if you do that, thenno one can read your mind.
No one magically knows whatyou actually want to do.
So everyone at Universal thought shewants to go into production management.
Which, I love production management.
I'm always constantly similar tohow JiL said she's between assistant
directing and art department.
I'm production managementand art department.
I just constantly am going back.
I'm very type A, but I'm a creative.
(12:20):
So everyone just assumed like that's therole that she's gonna move up and go down.
No one ever suspected that I hadan art department background, and
that's what I actually wanted to do.
So I was very nervous.
And actually one of the Art Directors,she's the one who was like, so what's
like, your goal in this career?
We were just randomly talkingone day when we were out on a
construction site, and I said, oh,I, I actually wanna do what you do.
(12:43):
And she was just so taken aback.
She had no idea.
And then she's the one whowas like, well, let's go talk.
Let's come on, come to my office tomorrow.
And I'm very grateful that her andthe other Art Director were , so open
minded and wanted to hear from me.
So.
I'm very lucky for that, but it taughtme that you just gotta be super vocal.
You can't be quiet about it.
Even though it's nerve wracking,you just have to voice what you want
(13:05):
to do to people because otherwisepeople are never going to know.
So how are they going to give you
the
chance.
JiL, I see you nodding vigorouslythroughout Jamie's story there.
Have you had moments of where youmade those bold moves yourself
or where you found mentors?
Did you see anything of yourselfin Jamie's stories there?
I absolutely agree with Jamie.
You gotta speak up and say what youwant, because everybody is so busy in
(13:27):
this industry, and if you're in thatposition, people just think that's your
mission, that's where you want to be.
But you have to say those things out loudto people, which is very nerve wracking.
That's how you get towhere you want to be.
And sometimes those places don'twork out, but at least you tried.
But be vocal.
(13:48):
Tell people what you're interested in.
And who knows, they mightjust put you in the right room.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And I've found too that mentors arejust so important in finding people
who can take you under their wing.
Is that something that happensout there in Hollywood?
I mean, I have this pictureof it being cutthroat.
Everybody's trying to cut each other off.
But is there that kind ofmentorship community out there?
(14:10):
I think it depends on theperson and where you're at.
There's a lot of people outthere that they don't care.
They have no interest.
But then there's a lot of people I'vecome across in my life and a lot of people
that I've met at Disney or Universal seethemselves in you and they're like, I know
how hard it was and I want to give backand help them get to where they're going.
It really just depends on the person andtheir personality type in my experience.
(14:32):
That makes a lot of sense.
I think that's true acrosslife in a lot of places.
We've talked a lot about setdecoration and you mentioned
props and obviously there'smanagement involved and scheduling.
Can we just talk about the varietyof things in art departments?
What are all the differentroles of somebody?
Is there a kind of a place foreverybody within art departments?
I've worked on projects where We've hada Production Designer, a Supervising
(14:57):
Art Director, an army of Art Directorsor Assistant Art Directors, seven Set
Designers, two Set Decorators, two LeadPeople, five Set Decoration buyers, two
Coordinators, a Researcher, four PAs.
Depending on the show, it couldbe very small where you just have
(15:18):
Production Designer, your ArtDirector, maybe an Assistant Art
Director, and then an Art DepartmentCoordinator and an Art Department PA.
Or it can be, ginormous where you've gotan army of Art Directors because show is
so big and you need so much managementfor all the different sets going on.
Jamie, can you walk us through thatjungle that JiL just described.
(15:39):
and, if you have that army of people,what does everybody do in there?
What is the goal?
And, What's everybody doing?
It's Just really hard to explain, youkind of just have to experience it and
figure out that's a job I'm good at, andI guess I will continue doing that job.
Because when I first came intoart department, I didn't even know
the terms for the jobs either.
I was just like, I like to make setsand make them look pretty, and I'm
(16:00):
good at buying things putting them out.
That's what I knew about art department,it wasn't until I came to LA and
started working on sets where I waslike, Oh, I'm mostly a Set Dresser.
I'm really good at placing thingsand buying things and doing that.
I have a friend who makes allthe crazy Marvel gadgets and
weapons and that's not me.
I couldn't tell you how that's made.
(16:22):
But you ask her and shekind of like, I don't know.
I just was like, I like art.
This is fun, and then realized, oh,I'm really good at making these things.
Or people will go like aconstruction route, or people are
good at drafting really good atarchitectural skills and numbers.
You really just have to be a Set PA or anArt Department PA and just watch everyone
and figure out where you jive and youprobably will do jobs where you're like,
(16:44):
I hate this, I don't want to do this.
And I've definitely learned that.
I learned that I don't want to be aDesigner because I didn't like the
constraints I was put under like how muchdrawing I had to do which sounds really
sad, but I have never been like a pencilto paper person, so when I was sitting
at my desk drawing and drafting forhours, I was like, oh this isn't for me.
(17:05):
I like boots on the ground,moving things and stuff.
So you kind of have to just dothings and you might do something
for a while and be like, nevermind,I don't want to do that anymore.
From the outside looking in, it lookslike, why'd she walk away from that?
that's just unfortunately howyou learned art department.
There isn't really a set thing.
I don't know anyone who graduated collegeand was like, I'm going to be this very
(17:26):
specific thing in the art department.
They've done it all andthey slowly moved around.
I would second that.
Just show up and learn on the job, askquestions, find out what everybody does.
I think that's the bestway to go about it.
You could read a bunch of bookson art direction or production
design, but the true experienceis being there, in the department.
(17:48):
See how that world comes together.
It's really fascinating.
And every show is different.
Every Production Designerworks differently.
Really, interesting things to observe.
You just got to show up.
That's very fun.
If you'll indulge me for asecond, I have a quick story.
I was an intern a long time ago, this isback when Michigan had film incentives
and I was an intern in the art department.
(18:10):
And, it was one of those things whereI was just doing anything, like I
would just say yes to anything, I'mjumping in to the art department.
One of the things they gave this lowlyyoung intern was to find some artwork
that could work in a bar scene.
And I had so much fun and thatpeice ended up in the background,
it ended up on the walls, and Istill have that painting actually.
(18:30):
Do you have any of those momentswhere you really felt like, I
helped this thing get to the screen.
know, A moment where, something thatyou'd been working on for a year, two
years at a time ends up in fruition?
What are some of those big success storiesyou feel like you've helped make happen?
I work with this amazingdecorator named Kristen Peterson.
And artwork is very importantto her in any project she does.
(18:54):
And the artwork almost has totell a story or has to have a
connection to the character.
She's very adamant about that.
And she's got such a great eye.
After some time working with her, sheallowed me to pick artwork for a set
for a character, which was so nervewracking because this is Kristen Peterson,
(19:16):
okay, I gotta make sure I, do okay.
Gosh, lots of stress, lots of differentoptions, and then presenting things
to her was very nerve wracking,but, surprisingly, she picked
out a lot of the things that Isuggested and it looked really great.
So for me that's kind of one of thosemoments similar to yours with the artwork.
(19:36):
I'd imagine
too
had some big clearances.
You ever get in that situationwhere like you don't think it's
going to work out, they're goingto have to rework the whole look.
And then, you come in andyou say, actually, we locked
it down, we got the deal.
Like anything like that happened with you?
Yes on the first season of BelAir for Peacock I was able to
negotiate this product placementdeal, which product placement is
(19:59):
using things on camera for free,
and
the company can say that they were in theshow and then we don't cover their logo.
I was able to place this veryexpensive stereo system in
one of the sets in Bel Air.
And it was successful for thecompany that provided it and
it was successful for the show.
And, NBC Universal uses thatexample in their kickoff meetings
(20:25):
for successful product placement.
Congratulations on that great work.
Jamie, I feel like, even at GrandValley, you were pulling off crazy
logistics, you were, putting thingstogether, putting people together.
I remember too one of your studentfilms, it was the one where it was the
afterlife and it was an office and art
was such a big part of that.
And it, just looks so differentthan anything else that students
(20:45):
were making at the time.
But you did that throughcollaboration and I'd imagine lots
of work and moving people together.
Are there situations like that stilltoday where, through your, managerial
skills and pulling things together,you're making crazy things happen that
don't look like anything else out there?
Halloween Horror Nights was a yearround project, which is very funny
to me when I first started workingon it because growing up in Michigan
(21:07):
we had Cedar Point and they had aHalloween event, but it was not that
great and it was just on weekends.
When I came out here, I was like,oh, this is a year round production
We work on it year round like soonas Halloween ends they're already
designing the new ones for the nextyear and they're like actual structures.
They'll survive earthquakes, builtinto the ground, they're cement.
It's crazy, the productionthat goes into this.
(21:29):
And so working on Horror Nights, forseven years, I learned a lot about
collaboration because even though you havea whole year, it's a very tight timeline
because there is a theme park happening.
And so you're building haunted housesin a theme park when it's not Halloween.
So you have to be very discreet.
You have to be out of guest view.
And the design timeline was very longand then all of a sudden there was like
two months where everyone was on top ofeach other trying to put set dressing
(21:52):
in, trying to do scenic and everything.
So that was a big lesson in my firstcouple years about collaboration, working
with others, time management, figuring outwho goes what, talking to each department.
There was a lot of arguments anddisagreements on who was more
important at a certain time.
And that was a crash course for meon , dealing with chaos, sometimes
(22:14):
intellectual property, so like a actualmovie or something that we were producing
into a haunted house form, sometimesthey would drop a month before opening.
And so then you have to scrapthat and redo something.
That was such a crash course tome and like how not to panic and
just to roll with the punches.
And then also how to deal with alot of different personality types.
Especially being a woman in the business.
Sometimes I had very angrymen, coming after me for things.
(22:36):
Behind the scenes of Halloween HorrorNights is so fascinating, I always say
that they need to do a documentary onit because people do not understand
how insane that team is, how smallthat team is, and what they are put
through to put together some of thecraziest haunted houses you'll ever see.
After coming out of that, everythingI've dealt with after that is like
a breeze to me and I totally canunderstand people's personalities and I
(22:58):
don't get upset as easily because I feellike I've been through the trenches.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thinking about when I was that intern,finding that art in the art department
and I was so happy to be searching there.
If I had chosen to go into artdepartment, that would have been
the beginning of my skills, right?
Shaping my taste and showingwhat deals that can be made with
artists and things like that.
It's possible now that that job couldbe done with artificial intelligence.
(23:21):
Somebody could just generate that imagewith a couple of prompts put that up.
What are you hearing out in the industry?
How are people dealing with this?
Are their protections?
What's going on with AI out in the world?
AI is a concern.
However, when it comes togenerating artwork, AI is
pulling from something, right?
So, studios and production companies,they're so litigious these days.
(23:47):
They want to make sure everythingthat goes in front of camera is
cleared, meaning we have permissionto use it as artwork in the project.
The problem with AI, since AI is pullingfrom unknown resources, unknown styles
of art, it's so difficult to clear.
(24:09):
So from what I've been experiencing thesedays recently is AI generated art is
frowned upon because it could be similarto a style of a pre existing artist.
It could have pulled elements from a preexisting piece of art and then the studio
or the project could get a legal claim.
(24:30):
To avoid that, they still wantus to go through cleared prop
houses individual artists to getthat actual signature signed off.
I know AI is a concern, but I don'tthink artwork in film gonna be an issue.
Jamie, what's the pulse on your teams?
Are people scared of it, interested in it?
Are people using it or banning it?
(24:52):
What's happening out there?
I mean, from my standpoint andfrom, most of my colleagues I'm
against AI in creative works.
It's pulling stuff from off the internet.
So in a sense, it's stealing artwork.
I'm a firm believer that as acreative, the best forms of art and
creative ideas come from people,from humans, from experience.
Beyond protecting jobs andeverything, I just think it's
(25:15):
lazy and I'm just very against it.
I know that the studiois not for it either.
I hear the conversation onsocial media all the time being
like, look, we can make films.
It's look how realistic this looks.
And then I look at it and I'mlike, this looks like crap.
This doesn't look good.
I think there's so many flaws.
I think maybe to the average viewer,it looks really real, but I think
(25:39):
from an artistic viewpoint, you cancall out AI imaging in a hot second.
I've unfortunately been in a positionwhere I've had a student turn in
artwork and I've been like, this is AIgenerated and let me zoom in and show
you what AI can't do that you as a humancan do if you, put your skills to it.
It's a touchy subject for a lotof people, but in my opinion,
(26:00):
it's non negotiable for me.
Don't believe in using AI,especially in the art department.
Think AI in technology maybe canuse as a tool to help humanity,
but when it comes to replacing jobs
I don't think you can mimic a human being.
While we're on the topic oflabor and jobs, JiL, there's some
recent contract negotiations.
What happened with those?
What's going on?
Recently the IATSE contract was upfor negotiation and that contract
(26:27):
was ratified without a strike.
And we got some gains from it.
So this new contract, is calledthe Basic Agreement for IATSE.
These are all the craftspeopleinvolved with making the projects.
So what we gained in this new roundof negotiations in this contract
was a wage minimum increase over thenext three years, increased pension
(26:50):
contributions, and then also additionalcontributions to our health plan.
Juneteenth is now a union recognizedholiday for IATSE, and then we also
got some AI language in there too,because we still don't know what it
is and where it's going yet, there wassome language added to this agreement.
(27:11):
The agreement says a committee willbe formed to develop work training
programs that can provide skillstrained in the use of AI systems.
But with that being said, these AIsystems, they will not replace a person.
An AI system will be operated by a unioncraftsperson, but will not replace a union
(27:33):
craftsperson, and then no employee shallbe subjected to being scanned by AI for
their visual or vocal likeness for use ina motion picture without their consent.
Which I know SAG AFTRA, which is theActors Union, that was a big concern.
I'm not quite sure what it says in theiragreement, their agreement language
(27:56):
is a little different but I honestlydon't think it's a big concern for us.
Huge gains in protections.
That's really good news that youwere able to come to that agreement.
Let's get back in time now for a second.
We're at Grand Valleywalking by the pond, right?
You see Freshman Jamie, FreshmanJiL, and they're thinking about
(28:16):
going into the art department, right?
What advice do you have forthat young JiL, young Jamie?
I would say at least knowing my careerpath now I'm not sure if Grand Valley
offered these classes at the time or stilldo, or if I would have had to go elsewhere
to learn these skills, but I think there'scertain programs that I really would
have told freshman Jamie that she needsto go learn such as SketchUp or AutoCAD
(28:38):
or learning hand drafting, things likethat I think are very beneficial programs
that depending on where you go in the artdepartment for some it's a necessity.
I would just really push littleJamie to find those programs.
When I was in school, I knew I hadto learn other programs that maybe I
wasn't getting from the film program.
I ended up getting a minor in advertisingonly because I wanted to take their
(28:59):
classes on how to use Photoshop and stuff.
I already had a little bit of foresighton that and that was really helpful that I
knew Creative Cloud once graduating, but.
I would say take it a step furtherand go more into like architectural
programs and things like that.
JiL, you and freshman JiL are hanging out.
What are you talking about?
What are you telling her?
She should study classes, clubs.
Um, take a Photoshop class.
(29:21):
That was one of my biggest hangups,and Professor Kim Roberts will laugh
at me when she listens to this.
Starting out in the art department,just tweaking some stuff in Photoshop,
like changing a photo that's gonna bein the background to black and white,
and all I could do was open Photoshop.
That's as far as I got.
I'm kicking myself that Ididn't take a Photoshop class.
(29:43):
Not even an introductory one.
I don't know why, but Ididn't think I needed it ever.
And then of course wish Iwould have taken Illustrator.
That would have been helpful.
Would have learned howto read a tape measure.
That would have been helpful.
I don't think it existedthen, but Google SketchUp.
It's like Vectorworks or aCAD program, but in Google.
(30:04):
I see a lot of people inmy department use a lot.
If we had our time machine, Iwould go back freshman year,
kick myself to Photoshop class.
The Essential Art Department, Jamie,was that a tool you can talk about?
Yeah.
So The Essential Art Department, otherwiseknown as TEAD is a business that me and
actually one of the art directors thatI talked about earlier on, who took me
(30:26):
under her wing, Brandy Creason, she'smy business partner in this endeavor.
And so during the pandemic,I was laid off, she was
furloughed, we were depressed.
Brandy was already teachingat the Art Institute out here.
She was teaching drafting andart direction and everything.
And so she's always wantedto be a teacher on the side
and . she's an amazing teacher.
Like, she taught me how to hand draft.
(30:47):
I didn't know how to hand draftbefore I started working at Universal.
And she's such a good teacher.
So during the pandemic, she came tome and was like, I've always had this
dream of teaching through my own school.
And I was like, that sounds great for you.
You should do that.
You go ahead and do that.
And she was like, no, I thinkthis is a great time to do it.
People are out of work.
People who are graduating collegeor in school are struggling
(31:10):
to figure out what they want.
How are they going to keep learning?
And they want to hear fromindustry professionals.
And everything's online now.
Zoom really popped offduring the pandemic.
I don't think I everused Zoom before then.
And she's like, we can teach online.
And she kept saying, we.
We.
And I was like, I don'tknow what this we is about.
I'm not a teacher.
And she really convincedme to do this with her.
(31:31):
I had, I still to this day sufferfrom insane imposter syndrome.
So I was just like, youhave 40 years of experience.
I have nothing.
But
I
went into business with her.
We started The Essential Art Department.
It's an online school.
It started off teaching students.
One class.
It was just taught by me andBrandy called Art Department Crash
Course, which basically was justan overview of the art department.
(31:51):
You want to get into our department,you're interested in it, let me give
you a ton of information in six weeksonline and see if you still like it.
And then from there, I just slowly grew.
It's been like three years now.
We expanded past the art departmentand just are entertainment crafts.
We have a bunch of different industryprofessionals that teach part-time for us.
We seek out friends or colleaguesthat are passionate about sharing
(32:13):
their knowledge and skills.
All online so that anyonein the world can take it.
We've had students from India,Jamaica London all take our classes
and they're different subjects.
So I have, Justin Martinis one of my teachers.
He's an amazing Art Director inthe themed entertainment space.
He's worked for Disney,Universal, Meow Wolf, all of them.
And he teaches a course on whatit's like designing for themed
(32:34):
entertainment and theme parks.
I have another instructor, TedDoherty, who is the guy in the industry
of horror and haunt experiences.
And so he teaches a writing course on howto come up with your own haunted house
concepts and how to pitch those to people.
Cause here in California, I knowit sounds weird, but we love
Halloween and there's a hauntedhouse every five minutes from here.
(32:56):
Every company wants to havea haunted house out here.
And then I still have my course.
We have a SketchUp course.
So if you want to learn SketchUp,I have an instructor who he
teaches you SketchUp Online.
So really it's just become thisentertainment industry learning platform,
where people of all backgrounds, all skilllevels, are welcome to come, take a class.
Maybe it's something that they'rereally passionate about and they really
(33:16):
want to learn, or they just want todip their toes into something and
they don't know if they want to take awhole college course on it or anything.
And it's really about community andtrying to bring people in the industry
together who want to teach people becauseI wish I had this when I was younger.
I wish I had something where Icould be like, let me go take these
classes on this online school becausemaybe my film major isn't providing
(33:40):
those classes and that's okay.
But now there's somewhere elseI can go and take those classes,
and learn from someone in the industry,and that person in the industry can
tell me what they think I need tolearn, because they're currently
working in the industry, and sotheir opinion is the most important.
What is happening inthe industry now that I
should know about.
How can people find you?
Where, is that a website?
Yes, the website, www.
(34:03):
theessentialartdepartment.
com.
We're also on Instagram, LinkedIn.
Facebook, all of them.
So we're constantly coming outwith new classes constantly
trying to get new ones online.
I like to listen to my students andask them what they want to learn,
and then I try and find someone whowill be a good teacher for them.
can't wait to dive into some of that.
Now, JiL you've also created abrand new tool that is something
(34:26):
that's not out there anywhere else.
Tell us about Lights Camera Art.
So Lights Camera Art is a print ondemand artwork licensing company
for film and television use.
We have a bunch of different artistsfrom different backgrounds, different
ethnicities, different identities whogive us permission to use their artwork
(34:46):
for film and television licensing.
You can go on our website and typein something that you're looking for.
And we offer five differentsizes for each piece of art.
You order it through us.
We send it to our designated printer inStudio City, California and productions
can just pick up the artwork that's beenprinted from our printer in Studio City.
(35:09):
That is incredible.
So that's LightsCameraArt.com.
I'm scrolling through the website here.
There is so many colors,so many different styles.
How did this come to be?
Where did you find allthese different artists?
What's the story?
So during the Writers Guild and theActors Strike, a lot of my friends
and colleagues were out of work.
(35:31):
And so to keep in touch, we would haveweekly Zooms And two of my co workers and
friends that I work with a lot we cameup with this idea Because working in the
set decoration department, we get theopportunity to meet a bunch of artists
and use their artwork and we felt likethis contact list of artists, this
(35:53):
massive amount of talent that didn'thave the tools to email their stuff to
a Set Decorator or Production Designer.
So we created this hub.
of pre existing artwork that's ina digital format for Set Decorators
and Production Designers to shopfrom to use in their sets, whether
(36:15):
it's commercial TV or a feature film.
That is so cool.
LightsCameraArt.
com Thank you so much forputting that together.
I hope lots of people use it.
As we, get close to wrapping up here.
JiL, when you're in those, big highpower meetings, you're talking
millions of dollars on the line.
Does anything from Grand Valleyresonate with, how you think now?
(36:37):
Any lessons you learned?
Maybe it's just a quote from aprofessor a while ago, what is
something that, bolsters whoyou are today from Grand Valley?
When I graduated from Grand Valley StateUniversity and got my foot in the door
in the industry and this, was happeningto a lot of us Grand Valley alum.
We were getting so manycompliments on our work ethic.
(36:58):
And I feel like since Grand Valley gave usthat hands on training, we weren't afraid.
So I was very thankful for Grand ValleyState University to provide all that
hands on training for us, because Idon't think I would have gotten those
compliments on set if I hadn't gone there.
One thing that I, always rememberfrom Professor Kim Roberts, I
(37:18):
was having a tough semester,
my classes, they weren'tfalling into place, I wasn't
on what I considered my track.
Things weren't panning out for me,and I was complaining about all
these other classes I had to takeoutside of film and video classes.
And she said, use it.
And that stopped me in my tracks.
(37:40):
I'm like, what?
What do you mean use it?
She's like, study yourastronomy professor.
Build a character out of him.
Maybe you'll use astronomy in astoryline for a story you create.
So that really changed my perspectiveon how to view these other classes
that were outside of the classroom.
(38:00):
the major and that was really helpfulbecause I'm able to kind of use
that perception in projects now.
when PAs in our department are gettingreally frustrated because they're not
moving up the ladder fast enough, orthey're not working on the task that they
want to work on, and I just, repeat whatKim Roberts told me, which is use it.
(38:24):
That is so cool.
Because.
That same lesson she taught me as well,like as, I think it was even before I was
a freshman and I think they were pitchingGrand Valley and she said something in
the effect of, you want to come to thisliberal arts school because you don't
want to just make movies about movies.
And then from that point on,I was like, all right, I'm
going to take all the classes.
I'm into the theme.
I'm into the gen eds.
Let's soak it all in.
(38:45):
So I, I feel that for sure.
Super valuable info.
Jamie, reaching back into that,blue Grand Valley heart you got.
What are the things that gave youthe platform to be who you are today?
I would say two things.
One thing that always stuck withme was Professor Frank Boring.
He was a tough one.
He was a tough cookie in his classes.
He terrified me because he usedto count how many times you said
(39:06):
like or um when you talked to him.
But he really stuck with me because hemade me think, and something that he said
once was that it doesn't matter how greatyou think your script or story is, if you
let someone else read it and they don'tunderstand it, then it doesn't matter.
But that always stuck to me just in anycreative endeavor I do, is I always think
(39:28):
that peer review and criticism are soimportant as a creative person, especially
when you're in art department, that Itake that wisdom and win everything I do.
I think I made something and itlooks amazing and it makes total
sense to me and the story is veryclear and then I show it to my peers
and they have a bunch of questionsand they don't think it's flowing.
(39:49):
I can get offended by that becauseI can be like, well, you're wrong.
Or I can say, well, you're rightbecause it doesn't matter because
I am making artwork or somethingfor the public, for other people.
So other people's input isactually way more important
than how great I think it is.
So shout out to Frank Boring.
That was always really good advice.
(40:10):
He was using it in the sense ofa script, but I use it in like
a bunch of different things.
And I, something I tellmy students a lot too.
And then something that I'm very gratefulthat I did at Grand Valley was join GVTV.
I did it as a freshman because I wasjust nervous and very shy at the time.
And I was like, that's a fun club,you get to make television shows.
I met some long lasting friends, butit really empowered me to take on
(40:30):
leadership roles, and push limitswith things that maybe I didn't have
the opportunity to do in classrooms.
Being a part of a campus fundedtelevision station, you do whatever
you want, and you can go to studentcouncil and ask for money because you
want to do this fun thing, and theywill maybe give you money for it.
And I got to do a lot of things and pusha lot of boundaries and discover things
(40:50):
that I could do because of that clubthat I couldn't do in the classroom.
Me and one of my best friends BobbyNielsen, he was , my partner in crime.
We were like, we should go live.
Grand Valley television atthe time was all prerecorded.
You uploaded it.
And And it sounds so funnynow because it's 2024 and like
live is just the standard.
But we were like, we should figureout how to go live on television.
And we asked for money and we did it.
(41:12):
And that was something that I'mvery grateful I had the opportunity
to do at Grand Valley Television.
Being able to be the Station Managerand learn how to lead a group of people
and deal with a lot of personalities.
And I look very fondly back on GVTV.
Maybe the content wasn't great, maybeit was very silly, low quality stuff,
but we got to do whatever we wanted.
(41:33):
And we got to play around withthings that we didn't get to
do in the classroom as much.
So I always think that looking for thoseopportunities, whatever is available
at Grand Valley, I know there's evenmore clubs than there were before.
Those are great ways to meet friendsand see what else you guys can do.
And that really shaped who I was inthis industry of being like, look at all
these things that I've done in the past.
I can, I can do them now.
(41:54):
So true, so true.
Any last thoughts, advice thingson your mind you want to tell
students before we off here?
We talked about it briefly at thebeginning when I was talking about my
weird career journey and I mentionedburnout and career changes and stuff.
I think that's something I wish I heardfrom some people in the industry early
on, is that career changes and shiftsin your title or where you're at, and
(42:20):
parts of the industry are very normal.
And way more people gothrough it than you think.
I talked about, Imposter syndrome is real.
And I think the best advice I cangive people is you gotta go with
your gut and what makes you happy.
And not think, well, I should be thistitle by now, or I should be in a
union by now, or something like that.
I never went the union route,but felt like I should have.
(42:41):
But that's just me.
Like I, that didn't workout for me personally.
That's not where I wanted to go.
That's where other peoplego and I'm happy for them.
Same with titles.
Like when I decided to take a step down oraway from a position, that's very normal.
And I think you just kind of need thatreassurance sometimes that it's okay.
Just do what makes you happy.
(43:02):
Cause at the end of the day, that'sway more important than any title
or, anything else in this industry,because otherwise you're just going
to wake up one day and hate your job,and you don't want to hate your job.
You want to love your job.
It's okay.
That's a very important message, I think.
Uh, JiL, any last thoughts,things you want to tell the
the young people out there?
I second, Jamie your career's goingto shift, the industry's going to
(43:23):
shift, you just got to flow with it.
If you got to work in a differentdepartment, you're going to
work in a different department.
But it's, totally fine.
There's no real timelineon anything, either.
I've worked with Assistant ArtDirectors who got bumped up to
Art Director after two shows.
I've worked with Assistant Art Directorswho never bumped up to Art Director.
(43:45):
There's no real timeline for anything.
There's no expectations.
Just show up and do a good joband learn and ask questions.
Well, Jamie Bartkowicz JiL Szewski thankyou so much for spending time with us and
congratulations on your great careers.
Can't wait to see everything you do.
Thank you.
Thank you!
That's it for this episodeof Alumni Live, The Podcast.
Careers in the Art Department.
(44:08):
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about the
Grand Valley State University FilmVideo Alumni Network is here for
(44:29):
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
The Podcast.
(00:02):
These are conversations with GrandValley State University film and video
graduates about the industry, thefilm, video, major and alumni profiles.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of alumni live, the podcast.
I'm host Randy Strobl and today we'retalking careers in the art department.
We have two excellent alumni here.
We've got Jamie Bartkowicz.
(00:22):
Hi, Jamie.
And we've got JiL SzewskiJiL how you doing?
Hey there.
So let's get right into it.
We're talking of course todayabout different art departments,
different ways you've applied yourGrand Valley degree to your careers.
Just broad level, let's startwith what is your current job And
what do you love about your work?
Let's start with Jamie.
Yeah, so I currently work atWalt Disney Studios as an Asset
(00:44):
Coordinator for physical production.
So that means I basically get towork on all the live action films
for Disney Live Action, 20th CenturyFox, and Searchlight Pictures.
It's more of a management type job where Iget to work with the heads of departments
for costumes, props set dressers andmanage all of the fun things that they
build and buy for the films and workwith them throughout production and
(01:06):
then become the keeper of it at the end.
JiL Szewski tell us about what you do.
What do you love about your work?
I work as a set decoration co lead person.
I work closely with the setdecorator to come up with budgets
for individual sets and episodes.
I track budgets and I'm also in chargeof clearances, making sure everything
on screen we have permission to use.
(01:28):
So if I'm hearing it correctly, wehave brought in two different ends
of the art department spectrum here.
So we've got Jamie really workingwith the look the feel and then
we've got JiL making sure allof that can happen it can work.
We've got logistics.
We've got schedules budgets thethings that make what we see on tv
and on screens and movies rightSo we're looking at art departments.
(01:52):
What is an art departmenton a film, on TV?
What do you do?
You have your production designerwho creates the look and the
overall feel of the show.
The production designer worksclosely with the director.
If it's a TV show, they workwith a director and a showrunner.
Once that idea is formulated, artdepartment works with construction to
(02:15):
build the sets, communicate with setdecoration to make it feel real, look
lived in, add those layers, and then alsoprops is part of that equation as well.
Making sure the props functionwith the overall look of the show.
So you're talking, wegot construction, right?
We got nails in wood, puttingthese things together.
(02:38):
Jamie, can you take that broad viewand just narrow in on one scenario
in the last week or two that you likewe're dealing with pulling all of
those pieces together where we reallysaw the art department collaborating
in all those different functions.
Yeah actually today I had to pull abunch of stuff for insert shoots, so
I had a bunch of different HODs, orheads of departments, contact me saying
(02:59):
this is the scene we're doing, we needto pull all these things and there's
a lot of collaboration there becausethere were tables that were a part of
the set that we needed to pull, butthen there were things on the tables
that were technically part of the propsbecause the actors interact with it,
so we had to make sure we had that.
There was even a prop that'salso technically a costume piece.
So there's a lot of crossover in thosedepartments and a lot of times those
(03:21):
departments have to work togetherto figure out who's handling what
and are those things going to workwith what they're responsible for?
So that was just like a very, easy exampleof something that I had to do today is
make sure I had all the pieces from allthe different departments to make sure
that everything came together for theinsert shoots that we're trying to do.
JiL, I'm going to throw that back to you.
What did your day in thelife look like today?
What stuff were you working on?
(03:41):
I mean, if you can talk about it, can'ttalk about it, but broad, broad, broad.
That looks at what happened today.
So today, thankfully we wrapped, so Ijust finished a project called Based on
a True Story, Season 2 for NBC Peacock.
My day can consist of, you know,say a new script comes out.
I go through the script, Ibreak it down, I figure out
(04:03):
what sets we need to budget for.
I talk to my decorator, I talk to my leadperson, we work together to formulate
a budget that's going to get approved,and then once it's approved, we start
renting things, we start buying thingsand make that set come together with
the vision of the Production Designer.
(04:25):
That's cool.
That is so cool.
Jamie, when you're pulling together thelook, the feel of, of these sets and,
and this world, are you doing a lot oflike scrolling through images online?
Are you going to places?
How much are you in theoffice, out of the office?
So my job with Walt Disney now is I kindof took a different route a couple years
ago and came over to the studio side.
(04:45):
So, less creative, more management andworking on the studio side and making the
studio happy is what way I should say it.
So I'm not really the one putting togetherthe look, but I am managing everything
that is getting put into the look.
So yeah, I'm scrolling, I'm gettinga lot of documents, I'm getting a lot
of rap books, I'm getting a lot ofexcel sheets, and so I need to know
where everything is and how to pullit, what boxes it's in, I have to store
(05:09):
it half the time and things like that.
It's a little bit different.
I would call it art
department adjacent I am nottechnically in the art department.
I am on the studiocorporate side of things.
so if I'm a freshman or a prospectivestudent at Grand Valley and I'm
thinking like this is a really funthing to be doing, What are the skills?
Like when did you know that youwere kind of going into this world?
(05:29):
How did you know?
Like what got you to where you are now?
I actually got started working on set asa set PA for production running around
with a walkie getting people coffees,picking up trash yelling rolling and cut.
But the great thing aboutworking with set, that's where
you can meet everybody, right?
You see property department puttingthings into the hands of talent.
(05:53):
You see sound miking up talent.
You see the set decoratorcoming in to approve the set.
that's where you get to see everythinghappen, everything come together.
So that gave me this great opportunityto kind of shop my career being able
to watch how everybody works andlike, oh, that's really fascinating
or, I like how they did this.
And then I got to ask questions.
(06:14):
So, PAing turned into likePAing for the art department.
Learning how to art departmentcoordinate, which is a lot
of management side of things.
And then moving over to setdecoration department getting
my foot in the door there.
And I've currently been workingwith the same set decoration
(06:35):
team for about six years now.
It's been really fun, really fun.
But I I definitely started groundlevel Production Assistant.
You can start as a PA in any department.
It gives you the bestviewpoint to learn from.
It's so interesting.
And just a real quick definition.
What is the set decoration department?
The set decoration department isa branch of the art department.
(06:58):
The set decoration department is theone who fills in the sets with your
sofas, textiles, drapery, to makethat set feel real, feel lived in.
We call it adding the livablelayers, because you got to
make it look real, right?
So that's set decoration.
So I got to watch what set dec wasdoing , and it wasn't always like
(07:22):
these high end glamorous sets.
Sometimes it was really dingy alleywaysbut they had the resources to make
it look real and dingy and I feellike there's such a skill in that.
That is absolutely a skilland I appreciate it every time
I see an image is like that.
I was just watching a show two days agoand I was like, that looks like a place
(07:44):
I could walk into and just lose myself.
Jamie and JiL, correct me if I'mwrong, but it sounds like you had
some kind of like clear steps , itwas kind of a linear progression.
You honed in on where you are now.
Is that?
Is that kind of what I'm hearing there?
So I originally was interested inassistant directing, working on the
production side, working closely withthe director which I had the opportunity
(08:05):
to do, which I loved cause it's alot of time management, juggling the
business side of things versus thecreative side of things, being that
task manager to push the schedule andthe crew forward to accomplish what
you're trying to film for the day.
I loved it.
But then I got pulled backinto the art department cause I
(08:25):
just needed that creative fix.
And once I got into the art department,I did go back and forth between
assistant directing and art department.
So it wasn't really, I wouldn'tsay a clear step, but I'm thankful
for the path because that'show I got to where I am today.
(08:46):
I feel like after you clarified thatthe messiness of that career going
back and forth things like that.
That sounds pretty relatable.
Jamie, do you relate to that?
What was your path?
How did you get to where you are today?
So while I was at school in GrandValley, I was very interested in the
art department, but didn't reallyhave the classes or anything too
much to like pursue that fully.
So when I moved out to LA I was alsojust like trying, started from the
(09:07):
bottom, wanted to be a PA on a set,got to work with different departments,
including the art department.
And then my career took a weird turn whereI randomly got a gig at Universal Studios
Hollywood, the theme park.
I was working part time there, becauseLA is expensive, and I was offered a
(09:27):
job with their entertainment productiondepartment for just like a short
time gig as Production Coordinator.
And I very quickly learned that myfilm skills translated over into
themed entertainment and live events.
And so I took the job there, and thenI just got sucked into that world.
I ended up loving it.
I worked on an event called HalloweenHorror Nights, which is a very big haunted
(09:48):
house event that Universal puts on.
And so I went and started goinginto production management.
And then after about a year of medoing that, they hired me full time.
I was like, oh wait, Imissed the art department.
And I would talk with the ArtDirectors and stuff on the event and
for that department all the time,and, one day just presented myself
to them and was like, actually, thisis what I originally wanted to do.
(10:09):
This is what I have alittle bit of background in.
I would like to try and moveover to your department.
And the two Art Directors became mymentors and then just took me under
their wing, which is very lucky . Myshort term gig at Universal Studios
turned into seven years of workingthere, where I shifted over to the art
department and started off as their ArtCoordinator, and by the time I left, I
was an Associate Production Designer.
(10:31):
So I was there until November of 2021,but burnout is real and post pandemic
burnout is super real, so I decidedthat there was a lot of things that
I wasn't happy with in my careerand just wanted a change of pace.
And during the pandemic, I actually waslaid off for a bit, and so I went back
into film because there was a lot offilm jobs, surprisingly booming in LA and
(10:54):
union jobs were still looking for people.
And so I was working on union shows,even though I was not union and
getting permits and I was workingin art department back in film.
And so near the end of 2021,I decided to leave universal
and try and go back into film.
And then I was offered a jobat Walt Disney Studios, where I
am now, which is very differentjob title, very different job.
(11:15):
But it was something that I felt likeI needed to do to reset and figure out
where my career path is going from there.
And so now two and a half yearslater, and I'm still trying to
figure it out, but that's just
life, and and I have a feeling alot of people listening to this
will understand and relate to that.
Yeah, it's very normal.
It's
also kudos to you to going upto those two Art Directors and
(11:36):
saying, I want to join your teams.
Was that, what did that feel like?
Were you nervous?
How did
yeah,
go?
I was very nervous.
it's funny because now afterso many years of being in the
business, I'm very outspoken.
A piece of advice that someoneonce gave me was, you can't be
quiet about what you want to do.
You can't be quiet about it.
And being from the Midwest,I don't talk about myself.
I was very quiet.
I thought it was rude if I talkedabout me and my dreams and aspirations.
(11:59):
I was an observer.
I was there to learn.
But if you do that, thenno one can read your mind.
No one magically knows whatyou actually want to do.
So everyone at Universal thought shewants to go into production management.
Which, I love production management.
I'm always constantly similar tohow JiL said she's between assistant
directing and art department.
I'm production managementand art department.
I just constantly am going back.
I'm very type A, but I'm a creative.
(12:20):
So everyone just assumed like that's therole that she's gonna move up and go down.
No one ever suspected that I hadan art department background, and
that's what I actually wanted to do.
So I was very nervous.
And actually one of the Art Directors,she's the one who was like, so what's
like, your goal in this career?
We were just randomly talkingone day when we were out on a
construction site, and I said, oh,I, I actually wanna do what you do.
(12:43):
And she was just so taken aback.
She had no idea.
And then she's the one whowas like, well, let's go talk.
Let's come on, come to my office tomorrow.
And I'm very grateful that her andthe other Art Director were , so open
minded and wanted to hear from me.
So.
I'm very lucky for that, but it taughtme that you just gotta be super vocal.
You can't be quiet about it.
Even though it's nerve wracking,you just have to voice what you want
(13:05):
to do to people because otherwisepeople are never going to know.
So how are they going to give you
the
chance.
JiL, I see you nodding vigorouslythroughout Jamie's story there.
Have you had moments of where youmade those bold moves yourself
or where you found mentors?
Did you see anything of yourselfin Jamie's stories there?
I absolutely agree with Jamie.
You gotta speak up and say what youwant, because everybody is so busy in
(13:27):
this industry, and if you're in thatposition, people just think that's your
mission, that's where you want to be.
But you have to say those things out loudto people, which is very nerve wracking.
That's how you get towhere you want to be.
And sometimes those places don'twork out, but at least you tried.
But be vocal.
(13:48):
Tell people what you're interested in.
And who knows, they mightjust put you in the right room.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And I've found too that mentors arejust so important in finding people
who can take you under their wing.
Is that something that happensout there in Hollywood?
I mean, I have this pictureof it being cutthroat.
Everybody's trying to cut each other off.
But is there that kind ofmentorship community out there?
(14:10):
I think it depends on theperson and where you're at.
There's a lot of people outthere that they don't care.
They have no interest.
But then there's a lot of people I'vecome across in my life and a lot of people
that I've met at Disney or Universal seethemselves in you and they're like, I know
how hard it was and I want to give backand help them get to where they're going.
It really just depends on the person andtheir personality type in my experience.
(14:32):
That makes a lot of sense.
I think that's true acrosslife in a lot of places.
We've talked a lot about setdecoration and you mentioned
props and obviously there'smanagement involved and scheduling.
Can we just talk about the varietyof things in art departments?
What are all the differentroles of somebody?
Is there a kind of a place foreverybody within art departments?
I've worked on projects where We've hada Production Designer, a Supervising
(14:57):
Art Director, an army of Art Directorsor Assistant Art Directors, seven Set
Designers, two Set Decorators, two LeadPeople, five Set Decoration buyers, two
Coordinators, a Researcher, four PAs.
Depending on the show, it couldbe very small where you just have
(15:18):
Production Designer, your ArtDirector, maybe an Assistant Art
Director, and then an Art DepartmentCoordinator and an Art Department PA.
Or it can be, ginormous where you've gotan army of Art Directors because show is
so big and you need so much managementfor all the different sets going on.
Jamie, can you walk us through thatjungle that JiL just described.
(15:39):
and, if you have that army of people,what does everybody do in there?
What is the goal?
And, What's everybody doing?
It's Just really hard to explain, youkind of just have to experience it and
figure out that's a job I'm good at, andI guess I will continue doing that job.
Because when I first came intoart department, I didn't even know
the terms for the jobs either.
I was just like, I like to make setsand make them look pretty, and I'm
(16:00):
good at buying things putting them out.
That's what I knew about art department,it wasn't until I came to LA and
started working on sets where I waslike, Oh, I'm mostly a Set Dresser.
I'm really good at placing thingsand buying things and doing that.
I have a friend who makes allthe crazy Marvel gadgets and
weapons and that's not me.
I couldn't tell you how that's made.
(16:22):
But you ask her and shekind of like, I don't know.
I just was like, I like art.
This is fun, and then realized, oh,I'm really good at making these things.
Or people will go like aconstruction route, or people are
good at drafting really good atarchitectural skills and numbers.
You really just have to be a Set PA or anArt Department PA and just watch everyone
and figure out where you jive and youprobably will do jobs where you're like,
(16:44):
I hate this, I don't want to do this.
And I've definitely learned that.
I learned that I don't want to be aDesigner because I didn't like the
constraints I was put under like how muchdrawing I had to do which sounds really
sad, but I have never been like a pencilto paper person, so when I was sitting
at my desk drawing and drafting forhours, I was like, oh this isn't for me.
(17:05):
I like boots on the ground,moving things and stuff.
So you kind of have to just dothings and you might do something
for a while and be like, nevermind,I don't want to do that anymore.
From the outside looking in, it lookslike, why'd she walk away from that?
that's just unfortunately howyou learned art department.
There isn't really a set thing.
I don't know anyone who graduated collegeand was like, I'm going to be this very
(17:26):
specific thing in the art department.
They've done it all andthey slowly moved around.
I would second that.
Just show up and learn on the job, askquestions, find out what everybody does.
I think that's the bestway to go about it.
You could read a bunch of bookson art direction or production
design, but the true experienceis being there, in the department.
(17:48):
See how that world comes together.
It's really fascinating.
And every show is different.
Every Production Designerworks differently.
Really, interesting things to observe.
You just got to show up.
That's very fun.
If you'll indulge me for asecond, I have a quick story.
I was an intern a long time ago, this isback when Michigan had film incentives
and I was an intern in the art department.
(18:10):
And, it was one of those things whereI was just doing anything, like I
would just say yes to anything, I'mjumping in to the art department.
One of the things they gave this lowlyyoung intern was to find some artwork
that could work in a bar scene.
And I had so much fun and thatpeice ended up in the background,
it ended up on the walls, and Istill have that painting actually.
(18:30):
Do you have any of those momentswhere you really felt like, I
helped this thing get to the screen.
know, A moment where, something thatyou'd been working on for a year, two
years at a time ends up in fruition?
What are some of those big success storiesyou feel like you've helped make happen?
I work with this amazingdecorator named Kristen Peterson.
And artwork is very importantto her in any project she does.
(18:54):
And the artwork almost has totell a story or has to have a
connection to the character.
She's very adamant about that.
And she's got such a great eye.
After some time working with her, sheallowed me to pick artwork for a set
for a character, which was so nervewracking because this is Kristen Peterson,
(19:16):
okay, I gotta make sure I, do okay.
Gosh, lots of stress, lots of differentoptions, and then presenting things
to her was very nerve wracking,but, surprisingly, she picked
out a lot of the things that Isuggested and it looked really great.
So for me that's kind of one of thosemoments similar to yours with the artwork.
(19:36):
I'd imagine
too
had some big clearances.
You ever get in that situationwhere like you don't think it's
going to work out, they're goingto have to rework the whole look.
And then, you come in andyou say, actually, we locked
it down, we got the deal.
Like anything like that happened with you?
Yes on the first season of BelAir for Peacock I was able to
negotiate this product placementdeal, which product placement is
(19:59):
using things on camera for free,
and
the company can say that they were in theshow and then we don't cover their logo.
I was able to place this veryexpensive stereo system in
one of the sets in Bel Air.
And it was successful for thecompany that provided it and
it was successful for the show.
And, NBC Universal uses thatexample in their kickoff meetings
(20:25):
for successful product placement.
Congratulations on that great work.
Jamie, I feel like, even at GrandValley, you were pulling off crazy
logistics, you were, putting thingstogether, putting people together.
I remember too one of your studentfilms, it was the one where it was the
afterlife and it was an office and art
was such a big part of that.
And it, just looks so differentthan anything else that students
(20:45):
were making at the time.
But you did that throughcollaboration and I'd imagine lots
of work and moving people together.
Are there situations like that stilltoday where, through your, managerial
skills and pulling things together,you're making crazy things happen that
don't look like anything else out there?
Halloween Horror Nights was a yearround project, which is very funny
to me when I first started workingon it because growing up in Michigan
(21:07):
we had Cedar Point and they had aHalloween event, but it was not that
great and it was just on weekends.
When I came out here, I was like,oh, this is a year round production
We work on it year round like soonas Halloween ends they're already
designing the new ones for the nextyear and they're like actual structures.
They'll survive earthquakes, builtinto the ground, they're cement.
It's crazy, the productionthat goes into this.
(21:29):
And so working on Horror Nights, forseven years, I learned a lot about
collaboration because even though you havea whole year, it's a very tight timeline
because there is a theme park happening.
And so you're building haunted housesin a theme park when it's not Halloween.
So you have to be very discreet.
You have to be out of guest view.
And the design timeline was very longand then all of a sudden there was like
two months where everyone was on top ofeach other trying to put set dressing
(21:52):
in, trying to do scenic and everything.
So that was a big lesson in my firstcouple years about collaboration, working
with others, time management, figuring outwho goes what, talking to each department.
There was a lot of arguments anddisagreements on who was more
important at a certain time.
And that was a crash course for meon , dealing with chaos, sometimes
(22:14):
intellectual property, so like a actualmovie or something that we were producing
into a haunted house form, sometimesthey would drop a month before opening.
And so then you have to scrapthat and redo something.
That was such a crash course tome and like how not to panic and
just to roll with the punches.
And then also how to deal with alot of different personality types.
Especially being a woman in the business.
Sometimes I had very angrymen, coming after me for things.
(22:36):
Behind the scenes of Halloween HorrorNights is so fascinating, I always say
that they need to do a documentary onit because people do not understand
how insane that team is, how smallthat team is, and what they are put
through to put together some of thecraziest haunted houses you'll ever see.
After coming out of that, everythingI've dealt with after that is like
a breeze to me and I totally canunderstand people's personalities and I
(22:58):
don't get upset as easily because I feellike I've been through the trenches.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thinking about when I was that intern,finding that art in the art department
and I was so happy to be searching there.
If I had chosen to go into artdepartment, that would have been
the beginning of my skills, right?
Shaping my taste and showingwhat deals that can be made with
artists and things like that.
It's possible now that that job couldbe done with artificial intelligence.
(23:21):
Somebody could just generate that imagewith a couple of prompts put that up.
What are you hearing out in the industry?
How are people dealing with this?
Are their protections?
What's going on with AI out in the world?
AI is a concern.
However, when it comes togenerating artwork, AI is
pulling from something, right?
So, studios and production companies,they're so litigious these days.
(23:47):
They want to make sure everythingthat goes in front of camera is
cleared, meaning we have permissionto use it as artwork in the project.
The problem with AI, since AI is pullingfrom unknown resources, unknown styles
of art, it's so difficult to clear.
(24:09):
So from what I've been experiencing thesedays recently is AI generated art is
frowned upon because it could be similarto a style of a pre existing artist.
It could have pulled elements from a preexisting piece of art and then the studio
or the project could get a legal claim.
(24:30):
To avoid that, they still wantus to go through cleared prop
houses individual artists to getthat actual signature signed off.
I know AI is a concern, but I don'tthink artwork in film gonna be an issue.
Jamie, what's the pulse on your teams?
Are people scared of it, interested in it?
Are people using it or banning it?
(24:52):
What's happening out there?
I mean, from my standpoint andfrom, most of my colleagues I'm
against AI in creative works.
It's pulling stuff from off the internet.
So in a sense, it's stealing artwork.
I'm a firm believer that as acreative, the best forms of art and
creative ideas come from people,from humans, from experience.
Beyond protecting jobs andeverything, I just think it's
(25:15):
lazy and I'm just very against it.
I know that the studiois not for it either.
I hear the conversation onsocial media all the time being
like, look, we can make films.
It's look how realistic this looks.
And then I look at it and I'mlike, this looks like crap.
This doesn't look good.
I think there's so many flaws.
I think maybe to the average viewer,it looks really real, but I think
(25:39):
from an artistic viewpoint, you cancall out AI imaging in a hot second.
I've unfortunately been in a positionwhere I've had a student turn in
artwork and I've been like, this is AIgenerated and let me zoom in and show
you what AI can't do that you as a humancan do if you, put your skills to it.
It's a touchy subject for a lotof people, but in my opinion,
(26:00):
it's non negotiable for me.
Don't believe in using AI,especially in the art department.
Think AI in technology maybe canuse as a tool to help humanity,
but when it comes to replacing jobs
I don't think you can mimic a human being.
While we're on the topic oflabor and jobs, JiL, there's some
recent contract negotiations.
What happened with those?
What's going on?
Recently the IATSE contract was upfor negotiation and that contract
(26:27):
was ratified without a strike.
And we got some gains from it.
So this new contract, is calledthe Basic Agreement for IATSE.
These are all the craftspeopleinvolved with making the projects.
So what we gained in this new roundof negotiations in this contract
was a wage minimum increase over thenext three years, increased pension
(26:50):
contributions, and then also additionalcontributions to our health plan.
Juneteenth is now a union recognizedholiday for IATSE, and then we also
got some AI language in there too,because we still don't know what it
is and where it's going yet, there wassome language added to this agreement.
(27:11):
The agreement says a committee willbe formed to develop work training
programs that can provide skillstrained in the use of AI systems.
But with that being said, these AIsystems, they will not replace a person.
An AI system will be operated by a unioncraftsperson, but will not replace a union
(27:33):
craftsperson, and then no employee shallbe subjected to being scanned by AI for
their visual or vocal likeness for use ina motion picture without their consent.
Which I know SAG AFTRA, which is theActors Union, that was a big concern.
I'm not quite sure what it says in theiragreement, their agreement language
(27:56):
is a little different but I honestlydon't think it's a big concern for us.
Huge gains in protections.
That's really good news that youwere able to come to that agreement.
Let's get back in time now for a second.
We're at Grand Valleywalking by the pond, right?
You see Freshman Jamie, FreshmanJiL, and they're thinking about
(28:16):
going into the art department, right?
What advice do you have forthat young JiL, young Jamie?
I would say at least knowing my careerpath now I'm not sure if Grand Valley
offered these classes at the time or stilldo, or if I would have had to go elsewhere
to learn these skills, but I think there'scertain programs that I really would
have told freshman Jamie that she needsto go learn such as SketchUp or AutoCAD
(28:38):
or learning hand drafting, things likethat I think are very beneficial programs
that depending on where you go in the artdepartment for some it's a necessity.
I would just really push littleJamie to find those programs.
When I was in school, I knew I hadto learn other programs that maybe I
wasn't getting from the film program.
I ended up getting a minor in advertisingonly because I wanted to take their
(28:59):
classes on how to use Photoshop and stuff.
I already had a little bit of foresighton that and that was really helpful that I
knew Creative Cloud once graduating, but.
I would say take it a step furtherand go more into like architectural
programs and things like that.
JiL, you and freshman JiL are hanging out.
What are you talking about?
What are you telling her?
She should study classes, clubs.
Um, take a Photoshop class.
(29:21):
That was one of my biggest hangups,and Professor Kim Roberts will laugh
at me when she listens to this.
Starting out in the art department,just tweaking some stuff in Photoshop,
like changing a photo that's gonna bein the background to black and white,
and all I could do was open Photoshop.
That's as far as I got.
I'm kicking myself that Ididn't take a Photoshop class.
(29:43):
Not even an introductory one.
I don't know why, but Ididn't think I needed it ever.
And then of course wish Iwould have taken Illustrator.
That would have been helpful.
Would have learned howto read a tape measure.
That would have been helpful.
I don't think it existedthen, but Google SketchUp.
It's like Vectorworks or aCAD program, but in Google.
(30:04):
I see a lot of people inmy department use a lot.
If we had our time machine, Iwould go back freshman year,
kick myself to Photoshop class.
The Essential Art Department, Jamie,was that a tool you can talk about?
Yeah.
So The Essential Art Department, otherwiseknown as TEAD is a business that me and
actually one of the art directors thatI talked about earlier on, who took me
(30:26):
under her wing, Brandy Creason, she'smy business partner in this endeavor.
And so during the pandemic,I was laid off, she was
furloughed, we were depressed.
Brandy was already teachingat the Art Institute out here.
She was teaching drafting andart direction and everything.
And so she's always wantedto be a teacher on the side
and . she's an amazing teacher.
Like, she taught me how to hand draft.
(30:47):
I didn't know how to hand draftbefore I started working at Universal.
And she's such a good teacher.
So during the pandemic, she came tome and was like, I've always had this
dream of teaching through my own school.
And I was like, that sounds great for you.
You should do that.
You go ahead and do that.
And she was like, no, I thinkthis is a great time to do it.
People are out of work.
People who are graduating collegeor in school are struggling
(31:10):
to figure out what they want.
How are they going to keep learning?
And they want to hear fromindustry professionals.
And everything's online now.
Zoom really popped offduring the pandemic.
I don't think I everused Zoom before then.
And she's like, we can teach online.
And she kept saying, we.
We.
And I was like, I don'tknow what this we is about.
I'm not a teacher.
And she really convincedme to do this with her.
(31:31):
I had, I still to this day sufferfrom insane imposter syndrome.
So I was just like, youhave 40 years of experience.
I have nothing.
But
I
went into business with her.
We started The Essential Art Department.
It's an online school.
It started off teaching students.
One class.
It was just taught by me andBrandy called Art Department Crash
Course, which basically was justan overview of the art department.
(31:51):
You want to get into our department,you're interested in it, let me give
you a ton of information in six weeksonline and see if you still like it.
And then from there, I just slowly grew.
It's been like three years now.
We expanded past the art departmentand just are entertainment crafts.
We have a bunch of different industryprofessionals that teach part-time for us.
We seek out friends or colleaguesthat are passionate about sharing
(32:13):
their knowledge and skills.
All online so that anyonein the world can take it.
We've had students from India,Jamaica London all take our classes
and they're different subjects.
So I have, Justin Martinis one of my teachers.
He's an amazing Art Director inthe themed entertainment space.
He's worked for Disney,Universal, Meow Wolf, all of them.
And he teaches a course on whatit's like designing for themed
(32:34):
entertainment and theme parks.
I have another instructor, TedDoherty, who is the guy in the industry
of horror and haunt experiences.
And so he teaches a writing course on howto come up with your own haunted house
concepts and how to pitch those to people.
Cause here in California, I knowit sounds weird, but we love
Halloween and there's a hauntedhouse every five minutes from here.
(32:56):
Every company wants to havea haunted house out here.
And then I still have my course.
We have a SketchUp course.
So if you want to learn SketchUp,I have an instructor who he
teaches you SketchUp Online.
So really it's just become thisentertainment industry learning platform,
where people of all backgrounds, all skilllevels, are welcome to come, take a class.
Maybe it's something that they'rereally passionate about and they really
(33:16):
want to learn, or they just want todip their toes into something and
they don't know if they want to take awhole college course on it or anything.
And it's really about community andtrying to bring people in the industry
together who want to teach people becauseI wish I had this when I was younger.
I wish I had something where Icould be like, let me go take these
classes on this online school becausemaybe my film major isn't providing
(33:40):
those classes and that's okay.
But now there's somewhere elseI can go and take those classes,
and learn from someone in the industry,and that person in the industry can
tell me what they think I need tolearn, because they're currently
working in the industry, and sotheir opinion is the most important.
What is happening inthe industry now that I
should know about.
How can people find you?
Where, is that a website?
Yes, the website, www.
(34:03):
theessentialartdepartment.
com.
We're also on Instagram, LinkedIn.
Facebook, all of them.
So we're constantly coming outwith new classes constantly
trying to get new ones online.
I like to listen to my students andask them what they want to learn,
and then I try and find someone whowill be a good teacher for them.
can't wait to dive into some of that.
Now, JiL you've also created abrand new tool that is something
(34:26):
that's not out there anywhere else.
Tell us about Lights Camera Art.
So Lights Camera Art is a print ondemand artwork licensing company
for film and television use.
We have a bunch of different artistsfrom different backgrounds, different
ethnicities, different identities whogive us permission to use their artwork
(34:46):
for film and television licensing.
You can go on our website and typein something that you're looking for.
And we offer five differentsizes for each piece of art.
You order it through us.
We send it to our designated printer inStudio City, California and productions
can just pick up the artwork that's beenprinted from our printer in Studio City.
(35:09):
That is incredible.
So that's LightsCameraArt.com.
I'm scrolling through the website here.
There is so many colors,so many different styles.
How did this come to be?
Where did you find allthese different artists?
What's the story?
So during the Writers Guild and theActors Strike, a lot of my friends
and colleagues were out of work.
(35:31):
And so to keep in touch, we would haveweekly Zooms And two of my co workers and
friends that I work with a lot we cameup with this idea Because working in the
set decoration department, we get theopportunity to meet a bunch of artists
and use their artwork and we felt likethis contact list of artists, this
(35:53):
massive amount of talent that didn'thave the tools to email their stuff to
a Set Decorator or Production Designer.
So we created this hub.
of pre existing artwork that's ina digital format for Set Decorators
and Production Designers to shopfrom to use in their sets, whether
(36:15):
it's commercial TV or a feature film.
That is so cool.
LightsCameraArt.
com Thank you so much forputting that together.
I hope lots of people use it.
As we, get close to wrapping up here.
JiL, when you're in those, big highpower meetings, you're talking
millions of dollars on the line.
Does anything from Grand Valleyresonate with, how you think now?
(36:37):
Any lessons you learned?
Maybe it's just a quote from aprofessor a while ago, what is
something that, bolsters whoyou are today from Grand Valley?
When I graduated from Grand Valley StateUniversity and got my foot in the door
in the industry and this, was happeningto a lot of us Grand Valley alum.
We were getting so manycompliments on our work ethic.
(36:58):
And I feel like since Grand Valley gave usthat hands on training, we weren't afraid.
So I was very thankful for Grand ValleyState University to provide all that
hands on training for us, because Idon't think I would have gotten those
compliments on set if I hadn't gone there.
One thing that I, always rememberfrom Professor Kim Roberts, I
(37:18):
was having a tough semester,
my classes, they weren'tfalling into place, I wasn't
on what I considered my track.
Things weren't panning out for me,and I was complaining about all
these other classes I had to takeoutside of film and video classes.
And she said, use it.
And that stopped me in my tracks.
(37:40):
I'm like, what?
What do you mean use it?
She's like, study yourastronomy professor.
Build a character out of him.
Maybe you'll use astronomy in astoryline for a story you create.
So that really changed my perspectiveon how to view these other classes
that were outside of the classroom.
(38:00):
the major and that was really helpfulbecause I'm able to kind of use
that perception in projects now.
when PAs in our department are gettingreally frustrated because they're not
moving up the ladder fast enough, orthey're not working on the task that they
want to work on, and I just, repeat whatKim Roberts told me, which is use it.
(38:24):
That is so cool.
Because.
That same lesson she taught me as well,like as, I think it was even before I was
a freshman and I think they were pitchingGrand Valley and she said something in
the effect of, you want to come to thisliberal arts school because you don't
want to just make movies about movies.
And then from that point on,I was like, all right, I'm
going to take all the classes.
I'm into the theme.
I'm into the gen eds.
Let's soak it all in.
(38:45):
So I, I feel that for sure.
Super valuable info.
Jamie, reaching back into that,blue Grand Valley heart you got.
What are the things that gave youthe platform to be who you are today?
I would say two things.
One thing that always stuck withme was Professor Frank Boring.
He was a tough one.
He was a tough cookie in his classes.
He terrified me because he usedto count how many times you said
(39:06):
like or um when you talked to him.
But he really stuck with me because hemade me think, and something that he said
once was that it doesn't matter how greatyou think your script or story is, if you
let someone else read it and they don'tunderstand it, then it doesn't matter.
But that always stuck to me just in anycreative endeavor I do, is I always think
(39:28):
that peer review and criticism are soimportant as a creative person, especially
when you're in art department, that Itake that wisdom and win everything I do.
I think I made something and itlooks amazing and it makes total
sense to me and the story is veryclear and then I show it to my peers
and they have a bunch of questionsand they don't think it's flowing.
(39:49):
I can get offended by that becauseI can be like, well, you're wrong.
Or I can say, well, you're rightbecause it doesn't matter because
I am making artwork or somethingfor the public, for other people.
So other people's input isactually way more important
than how great I think it is.
So shout out to Frank Boring.
That was always really good advice.
(40:10):
He was using it in the sense ofa script, but I use it in like
a bunch of different things.
And I, something I tellmy students a lot too.
And then something that I'm very gratefulthat I did at Grand Valley was join GVTV.
I did it as a freshman because I wasjust nervous and very shy at the time.
And I was like, that's a fun club,you get to make television shows.
I met some long lasting friends, butit really empowered me to take on
(40:30):
leadership roles, and push limitswith things that maybe I didn't have
the opportunity to do in classrooms.
Being a part of a campus fundedtelevision station, you do whatever
you want, and you can go to studentcouncil and ask for money because you
want to do this fun thing, and theywill maybe give you money for it.
And I got to do a lot of things and pusha lot of boundaries and discover things
(40:50):
that I could do because of that clubthat I couldn't do in the classroom.
Me and one of my best friends BobbyNielsen, he was , my partner in crime.
We were like, we should go live.
Grand Valley television atthe time was all prerecorded.
You uploaded it.
And And it sounds so funnynow because it's 2024 and like
live is just the standard.
But we were like, we should figureout how to go live on television.
And we asked for money and we did it.
(41:12):
And that was something that I'mvery grateful I had the opportunity
to do at Grand Valley Television.
Being able to be the Station Managerand learn how to lead a group of people
and deal with a lot of personalities.
And I look very fondly back on GVTV.
Maybe the content wasn't great, maybeit was very silly, low quality stuff,
but we got to do whatever we wanted.
(41:33):
And we got to play around withthings that we didn't get to
do in the classroom as much.
So I always think that looking for thoseopportunities, whatever is available
at Grand Valley, I know there's evenmore clubs than there were before.
Those are great ways to meet friendsand see what else you guys can do.
And that really shaped who I was inthis industry of being like, look at all
these things that I've done in the past.
I can, I can do them now.
(41:54):
So true, so true.
Any last thoughts, advice thingson your mind you want to tell
students before we off here?
We talked about it briefly at thebeginning when I was talking about my
weird career journey and I mentionedburnout and career changes and stuff.
I think that's something I wish I heardfrom some people in the industry early
on, is that career changes and shiftsin your title or where you're at, and
(42:20):
parts of the industry are very normal.
And way more people gothrough it than you think.
I talked about, Imposter syndrome is real.
And I think the best advice I cangive people is you gotta go with
your gut and what makes you happy.
And not think, well, I should be thistitle by now, or I should be in a
union by now, or something like that.
I never went the union route,but felt like I should have.
(42:41):
But that's just me.
Like I, that didn't workout for me personally.
That's not where I wanted to go.
That's where other peoplego and I'm happy for them.
Same with titles.
Like when I decided to take a step down oraway from a position, that's very normal.
And I think you just kind of need thatreassurance sometimes that it's okay.
Just do what makes you happy.
(43:02):
Cause at the end of the day, that'sway more important than any title
or, anything else in this industry,because otherwise you're just going
to wake up one day and hate your job,and you don't want to hate your job.
You want to love your job.
It's okay.
That's a very important message, I think.
Uh, JiL, any last thoughts,things you want to tell the
the young people out there?
I second, Jamie your career's goingto shift, the industry's going to
(43:23):
shift, you just got to flow with it.
If you got to work in a differentdepartment, you're going to
work in a different department.
But it's, totally fine.
There's no real timelineon anything, either.
I've worked with Assistant ArtDirectors who got bumped up to
Art Director after two shows.
I've worked with Assistant Art Directorswho never bumped up to Art Director.
(43:45):
There's no real timeline for anything.
There's no expectations.
Just show up and do a good joband learn and ask questions.
Well, Jamie Bartkowicz JiL Szewski thankyou so much for spending time with us and
congratulations on your great careers.
Can't wait to see everything you do.
Thank you.
Thank you!
That's it for this episodeof Alumni Live, The Podcast.
Careers in the Art Department.
(44:08):
Thank you for joining us for thisepisode of Alumni Live: The Podcast.
Subscribe to our podcast, to hear morefrom our alumni across the industry.
Check out Alumni Live onFacebook, Instagram, and YouTube.
For more conversations and networking.
Let us know what topics you wantto hear our alumni talk about the
Grand Valley State University FilmVideo Alumni Network is here for
(44:29):
you, and we're glad that you're here.
Thank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.