Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

Episodes

59: Is The Click Dead? (Diane Charno)

December 11, 2025 • 56 mins
Stuart and Adam kick things off with some lighthearted college sports trash talk before welcoming a very special guest co host, Diane Charno, EVP of Marketing at Visit Myrtle Beach and Stuart’s right hand. Together, the trio dig into one of the most uncomfortable questions in modern destination marketing, whether the almighty click still matters in a zero click, AI driven world, and what DMOs should be measuring instead.
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58: Are DMOs Really Serving Residents?

December 4, 2025 • 55 mins
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam are together in person in Myrtle Beach for the very first time, recording live from the Grand Strand. Stuart uses the conversation to think out loud about the last few episodes and where DMOs go from here, especially when it comes to who we really exist to serve and how that should shape the future.


This is a reflective, slightly uncomfortable, very real c...
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57: What Are Adam and Stuart Most Thankful For in 2025?

November 27, 2025 • 46 mins
In this Thanksgiving-week episode, Stuart and Adam shake off a few weeks of heavy, future-of-AI doom-spiraling and intentionally zoom out to focus on perspective, gratitude, and what truly matters in destination marketing. It’s lighter, more reflective, and full of listener shout-outs, industry appreciation, and some familiar banter.

Opening Banter
Stuart kicks things off with an over-the-top Adam introduction tha...
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56: Is This the Beginning of the End for DMOs? (Janette Roush)

November 20, 2025 • 69 mins
Stuart and Adam are joined by Brand USA’s Janette Roush for a provocative exploration of the question no one in tourism wants to ask out loud: what happens to DMOs when AI becomes the primary interface for travel inspiration, planning, and booking?

The conversation pushes past hype and digs into the existential challenge ahead. If AI tools replace the website, the visitor guide, the itinerary builder, and even the dis...
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55: Are DMOs Ready to Teach, Not Just Market? (Kara Franker)

November 13, 2025 • 52 mins
The game has changed, and not just for marketers. In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Kara Franker, CEO of the Florida Keys & Key West, for a candid conversation about how artificial intelligence is forcing DMOs to redefine their purpose.

Kara argues that the future of destination marketing isn’t just about promotion, it’s about education. As AI transforms how trav...
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54: Is It Time for Agencies to Get Paid for How They Think, Not What They Do?

November 6, 2025 • 54 mins
This week on Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam dive into one of their most candid conversations yet, a real-time therapy session about the changing relationship between DMOs and agencies in the age of AI.

The episode kicks off with Stu’s News and a jaw-dropping update: OpenAI now allows users to shop and pay for products directly inside ChatGPT. No clicks. No websites. Just conversation. Stuart calls it “the mome...
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53: Should Vacation Be Mandatory in Destination Marketing? (Jennifer Walker)

October 30, 2025 • 49 mins
We promote the power of travel—but are we actually taking it ourselves? In this episode, Jennifer Walker from Visit Dallas challenges the tourism industry to practice what it preaches. With burnout on the rise and vacation days left unused, this candid conversation explores whether DMOs are setting the right example when it comes to rest, recovery, and experiencing their own destinations like a visitor.

From mandated ...
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52: Can Supply Chain Thinking Revolutionize Destination Marketing? (Caleb Sullivan and Tyler Ford)

October 23, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of Destination Discourse, we’re joined by returning guest Caleb Sullivan and first-time guest Tyler Ford, an outsider from the automotive world who just might have the fresh perspective the tourism industry needs.

The conversation kicks off with a lively debate about Las Vegas’s new “Five Days of Fabulous” campaign—is it a smart earned media play or a short-sighted brand devaluation? But the real shift...
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51: Should the 4 I’s Replace the 4 P’s of Marketing? (John Gardner)

October 16, 2025 • 54 mins
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with marketing strategist John Gardner to unpack a bold new framework for modern marketers: The Four I’s of Marketing — Intelligence, Individualization, Integration, and Inspiration. As traditional approaches like the Four P’s (Product, Price, Place, Promotion) lose relevance, this conversation explores how DMOs can better serve visitors and stakeholders in an ...
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50: How Have Our Views Changed After 50 Episodes?

October 9, 2025 • 52 mins
It’s the 50th episode of Destination Discourse, and Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker mark the milestone by taking a reflective walk through their biggest learnings and shifts in perspective since launching the show. In a heartfelt, humorous, and occasionally roast-filled conversation, they unpack how their thinking has evolved on three major fronts: the role of paid vs. owned media, the importance of measuring what truly matters,...
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49: How Can DMOs Stand Out in Meetings Marketing? (Joe Heller)

October 2, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam sit down with Joe Heller, CMO of Discover Philadelphia, to tackle one of the biggest challenges facing DMOs today: how to break through the sea of sameness in meetings and conventions marketing.


The conversation explores why traditional advertising often falls flat in the B2B space and how destinations can shift toward disruptive promotions and attention-g...
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    48: Are We Overstating AI’s Environmental Impact? (CA Clark)

    September 25, 2025 • 62 mins
    This week’s episode goes deep into one of the most complex and often misunderstood conversations around artificial intelligence: its environmental impact. Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by returning guest C.A. Clark, who first appeared back in Episode 7 to talk about AI ethics. This time, the three pick up a conversation that started off-mic and turned into one of the most challenging, thought-provoking discussions w...
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    47: What Can DMOs Learn from Media’s Demise? (Christian Mengel)

    September 18, 2025 • 62 mins
    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam are joined by Christian Mengel of St. Joseph CVB—who is not the dating site, despite the name—for a compelling discussion about what destination marketers can learn from the decline of traditional media.

    Christian brings his background in journalism to unpack how newspapers, TV, and radio lost their position as trusted sources, and how DMOs may be on a similar ...
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    46: Who Won at Destination Discourse LIVE at ESTO 2025?

    September 11, 2025 • 49 mins
    We brought Destination Discourse to the main stage at ESTO 2025 for a special live debate—and it did not disappoint. In this high-energy session, Stuart and Adam tackled two provocative questions shaping the future of destination marketing:
     1. Will DMO websites be irrelevant in 5 years?
     2. Will the ROI of paid media continue to decline?

    With the audience choosing which side each of us had to argue (regardles...
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    45: Where Should DMO CEOs Be Spending Their Time? (Kristen Adamo)

    September 4, 2025 • 51 mins
    In this jam-packed episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam welcome Kristen Adamo, President & CEO of Go Providence, for a powerful conversation about the evolving role of destination marketing organizations—and more specifically—the CEO’s role in product development and community stewardship.

    They explore:
    • How Go Providence helped save WaterFire and turned it into an economic development lever
    ...
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    44: Are DMOs Ready for the “Brand in the Prompt” Era?

    August 28, 2025 • 46 mins
    In this no-guest, think-out-loud episode, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker tackle one of the most urgent shifts in destination marketing: how AI-powered trip planning and booking could change everything DMOs know about awareness, attribution, and conversion. They unpack Google Ads’ new branded search metric and why it may signal a swing back toward brand-first strategies, then dive into the coming challenge of Large Language Mode...
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    43: Is It Time to Rethink Agency Models and the Marketing Funnel? (Dan Janes)

    August 21, 2025 • 53 mins
    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome Dan Janes from Madden Media for a wide-ranging conversation that connects the dots between AI, agency structures, RFPs, and the way destinations approach marketing funnels.

    The trio kicks things off with Stu’s News on the release of ChatGPT-5, exploring its leap in reasoning, ability to understand intent, and potential to transform how tea...
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    42: What Do DMOs Actually Want From Vendors? (Caleb Sullivan)

    August 14, 2025 • 58 mins
    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart and Adam welcome long-time listener and industry friend Caleb Sullivan for a candid conversation about what makes the vendor–DMO relationship thrive—or fail. Drawing from experiences on both sides of the table, they share the right (and wrong) ways to approach business development in the tourism space, why trust and authenticity are more valuable than a hard sell, and how playin...
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    41: Should DMOs Think More Like a Startup? (Steven Totten)

    August 7, 2025 • 59 mins
    In this episode, Stuart and Adam are joined by Steven Totten of Visit Phoenix for an unfiltered conversation on risk, innovation, and the sameness plaguing the travel and tourism industry. The trio tackles the dangers of navel-gazing, the repetitive creative churn from agencies, and the cultural fear that stifles innovation across DMOs. Stuart shares behind-the-scenes details on the launch of Charlie’s Place, a six-part podcas...
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    40: Are We Measuring What Matters? (Jim Harenchar)

    July 31, 2025 • 72 mins
    In Episode 40, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome Jim Harenchar, President of RMG USA, for a deep (and at times spicy) conversation on marketing attribution, ROI, and the complicated relationship between DMOs, agencies, and vendors. What starts as golf banter quickly tees off into a much larger dialogue about how—and whether—the travel industry is measuring what truly matters. From changing consumer behaviors to the dangers...
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