Episode 354 w/ Crazy Legs

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And his Drink Chess Motherfucker podcast. D's a legendary Queen's rapper,
Ain't Segreed? Is your boy in O R He's a
Miami hippop Lione Cup is dj e FN. Together they
drink it up with some of the biggest players in
the most professional unprofessional podcast and your number one source
for drunk back drink chess motherfuckers. New year' z that

(00:38):
it's time for Drink Champs. Drink up, motherfuck motherfuck? Would
it good? Be hopey s me? This is your boy
and O R eight? What up? Is dj e FN?
This Middle Tammy, Crazy War Happy Hour, Drink Champions Chapter Hour,
Make Some Now. When ME and e FN started the show,

(01:05):
we looked at each other and we said, there's so
many other platforms for new artists and for new outlets
and things like that. We wanted dedicata to super legends,
we wanted dedicated to icons, We wanted to dedicated to superheroes,

(01:27):
people who have been doing this. When I was researching
this brother that we were about to introduce, they said
that he started doing his thing in seventy seven. I said,
holy hit. I said, yeah, I was born. This motherfucker
has been literally doing it my whole life. Literally, He's
a person that if you're Puerto Rican and you know

(01:50):
how to dance, or if you just a hip hop
if you are a hip hop period and you have
a hip hop dance, I don't care what it is.
It could be the stinky lag. It comes from him.
He was the first person that made people and I
imagine the thing, and then I found out he invented

(02:11):
the windmill. It's like talking to Michael Jackson right now.
We are happy, a static, vigorous, enthusiastic to have a
legend of a legend, an icon of an icon, a
person that we all should throw flowers at his feet

(02:35):
when he walked down the street, literally because his feet
is crazy and his legs is too. So in case
you don't know who the hell are you talking about,
he told about the one the only motherfucker crazy. May
you represent me at my funeral? So you know what

(02:56):
was one of the craziest things is no pun intend
uh me seeing you on Letterman right like, um, I'm
going back because I had no idea Letterman would even
like do something like that, because how was it, for
for lack of a better term, I didn't see be
Boying at that time as being a commercial, like you

(03:18):
know what I'm saying. I thought it was like some real,
you know, underground. So when seeing on Letterman or seeing
that that, I thing like that, was that like a
beginning of of be Boying crossing Oval or No? Yeah,
we were there because of Flashdance, So yeah, that was like, yeah,
what year? That's that was wild? That came out an

(03:39):
eighty three Flashdance. So when we did Late David Letterman Show,
I mean that was kind of wild. And I'm gonna
sucking go all out today because I don't give anyone.
Let's go, let's go. We wrote, we get set up
to do the show, and the dude that I was
with doing the show was coming off of being high
tonight before. We're like, oh shit, how are we gonna

(04:01):
do these routines? Was it ascid? Was it ascid? Back then?
What y'all was on my right? Now? Everybody did assid? Why?
I don't, Yeah, but a lot of people don't see
the boys as as stick up kids too. You know.
We were living double line for sure. So yeah, so
it was wild. So doing that not knowing how that

(04:22):
was gonna turn out, and and then, but the whack
Ship was a while ago. After I see David let
him in the restaurant and I'm thinking, like, all right,
well he's probably cool. I tell away that, Hey, you know,
I like to go say hi to him. Can you
let him know? He's like, no, because of that experience
with you guys, huh No, it's just he's a dick whatever,

(04:47):
that's him, right, So nothing happened on the show like no, no,
And I was gonna heard you say I heard you.
This is just like the third time I heard you say, Um,
you didn't really like him when you was there? No,
I didn't like him. Wow. Yeah. It was that that
dry humor that I didn't get coming from where I
come from, because I'm like, yo, this motherfucking stupid, you know.
And that's you know at that time, even though like

(05:08):
you know, with dancing, and we were still we were
running wild like the Central Park, rounding people and got
the cent you going to fast? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
So what you guys were there was you were what
did you do for the movie? Coup? Moving out? So
we dancing flash dance at the beginning and then at
the end, I actually doubled for her they actually they

(05:30):
wanted me to um teach the girls how to spin
on that back in twenty four hours, and I'm like
that's not possible. So they ended up having me uh
coming the next day like hey, you know, the director
Adrian Line's like, hey, you know, would you mind dressing
up as a woman or whatever Leah turning on its
all the stuff you keep your much stash or something. No. Well,

(05:50):
first of all, I'm like this, I'm talking to dude
like this. I'm like, y'all, you know that's money. That's
the money signed. Like, I'm not even really talking to
the dude. I just like fuck and ignorant bronx dude
seventeen years old. And I'm like this in the dude's
face and he's like all right, cool cool, And we
wanted to shave, and I'm like, oh shit, man, I
just keep doing that. Um And I just did it. Man.

(06:15):
I was just like fuck it, all right, did it?
And I also also, like recently doing the studies, I
didn't know that breakdancing was frowned upon. The word breakdown.
Yeah that's what it is. Breakdown. Yeah it doesn't. So
the word breakdancing doesn't come from hip hop It came
from my former manager, Lady Blues, and she misspoken in

(06:36):
a meeting and she was also a publicist, so she
was the one we would just I mean we would man.
I was maybe sixteen and she did that fifteen and
you know, she got a British accent, went from the Bronx.
It was like breakthoughts. So yeah, it was just working
with her, and but we didn't know that she was

(06:58):
feeding it out there like that, and that's how it
got into the press. A lot of people say the
media made that term up when it was her. It
was her single hands in the end. Once they heard
that was going, yeah, called back then viral, it was
called now viral, like it made its way around and
we had the most pressed back then, you know, for
that period of time and what we were doing, nobody

(07:19):
was getting more when Steady Yeah, so you literally like,
let's just take it back to the beginning. You literally
went on the first hip hop tour. Yep, I went
on I went on Home Le Noise. Yeah, I'm sitting
there and I'm like, wait the fuck a minute. So

(07:40):
because I gotta remember, everyone is thinking this is a
fad at this time, right, everything everyone is thinking that
this is black people's in Porto began people's version of
rock and roll. It's not gonna be successful. It's gonna
be just successful to them. But you guys wouldn't know
this was this was not in a world to all.
This was the first tour, but it was in America, right, No, no, no,
So there was two tours. There was one. Oh sorry.

(08:02):
The first curated hip hop show for the sake of
presenting it to the downtown scene was curated by a
man named Henry child font Ok. And a lot of
people confused the word graffiti rock with the Michael Holman
show that was on TV with run DMC versus Treacherous three. Yes,
so graffiti Rock was a curated show at a place

(08:23):
called the Kitchen Center for Performing Arts in maybe nineteen eighty. Wow,
that's a couple of years before the Graffiti Rock Show
on TV. And uh, Henry child font had got t
Kid as a graffiti writer to do the backdrop rock
study crew. We split ourselves up to perform a battle
as two different crews, and then you have Fat five,

(08:45):
Freddie H DJ Spy and just du Dame DJ Spying, Ramelsi,
who weren't supposed to be there and I found out
some dirt should I air it out? Whatever you want?
Every child Fire told me that five to Fat five Friday,
and I was trying to get like cold crush of fantastic.
So fred injected himself and his boys. He became and

(09:08):
that's how he got this thing in terms of being
a performer in the scene. The first swindle. So when
you say the two first tours, okay, yeah, so that
was so the Kitchen after that had a twelve city tour,
so it was myself, Frosty Freeze, Fat five, Freddy DJ

(09:30):
Spy and then it was just like a collective of
like jazz and rock and pump artists going on the
twelve city tour between the States, Midwest and Canada. And
then after um, after that we started performing regularly downtown.
So the first curated club events four hip hop presented

(09:51):
to the masses and being covered by like The Village Voice,
New York Times, Daily News, all that stuff and just
a certain energy. But to be clear, there's no mcs.
There's nobody rapping on this tour, is there. Uh yeah,
well you're talking about the Kitchen tour. Yeah, yeah, I
was Fat five Freddy. He was actually rhyman. I thought
he was just like hosting him seeing it as a host.
I'm just gonna say we were high a lot on that,

(10:13):
but I don't really remember. But yeah, so you know,
he was massive ceremonies and dropping a little round some rhymes. Um.
And then this guy DJ spot was he was really dope.
He's from Brooklyn. He was rocking out on the turntables.
And then shortly after that we started doing shows in

(10:34):
the downtown scene. The first downtown club to ever have
a hip hop curated show besides the Kitchen, because the
Kitchen was a like an arts center, um was. It
was a place called the Grill. The Grill. Then I
got my nose red let something. You're still in my

(10:55):
interview because look, I was about to say this is
one of my questions, but way before before you told
people because somebody's like, yo, but no ship, I'm like, y'all,
nor he's good. He's good. That's it. It says the
Grill nightclub considered to be hip hop's first nightclub. Is
that the truth? I wouldn't say that. I would say
in terms of presenting hip hop to the downtown scene. Yeah,

(11:18):
Downtown yeah, okay because because yeah, t connection, all the
Bond ball Room acts to Seagar Ride, Yeah, all stuff,
and then Harlem World. Okay, okay, okay, go the way
that you're saying all this, it makes me feel like
the dancers and the graffiti artists and the DJs were
more on the forefront at this point. Definitely easily Okay, yeah,

(11:41):
let me. I don't want to get back to this subject,
but fear of me if you can. Right, we know
the five elements right of hip hop? Right, then hip
hop starts to change, right. Get these corporations they come
in some music of hip hop down, some don't. But

(12:06):
this was about maybe ten years ago. Being Capale, we
go to Europe and I would get where we're at
the story Germany. But I remember me going on the tour,
and I remember before we went on the tour and

(12:26):
the promoters, which is disappeared and they would come back
and they would smell like old school crylns. Yeah, I'm
sorry for y'all, young innocent here break hand yeah, And
then they would be out there and they would have
the cardboard and I would be like, did they do
that just for us? And this was something that they

(12:48):
did at their hip hop clubs every and this was, this,
was this, It wasn't that long ago. But why is
it abroad people want to embrace the hip hop and
the elements more than we do is right here created
That's a deep question, man, I'm sorry now stopping me.
I think I think none. I felt good about myself.

(13:10):
I think because of it being very regional and like
our New York hip hop state of mind, the way
we came up and how we presented all the elements.
A lot of people who got it later on in
the States only got wrapped, so they don't feel any
kind of real alliance to the elements of hip hop.
And even when you say five elements of hip hop,
you know, originally it was you know, breaking the DJ

(13:33):
and m seying, graffiti and de boxing, but then Bambado
changed it to knowledge that of de boxing, which I
thought was unfair. I'd say, just add the sixth one
yeah as well, yeah, yeah, yeah, because so that and
that happened like early nineties when they changed it. Yo,
But why does it? Why does the pure essence of
hip hop live in other places other than it's more appreciative?

(13:57):
Is that the word I should have been using. Yeah,
it's definitely more I think I think people have you
have you experienced yeah, yeah, right, It's like, yeah, I
like that, But it's like, why don't do that home.
It's my beef with loving hip hop? Like I said,
it's not like they represent no, not at all culture,
you know what I'm saying at all. And that's the thing.

(14:18):
Here in the States, the word hip hop is just
it's wrapped music. By the way, I think it's the
most hip hop as conversation we ever had on the
show right now. So here's the thing. Okay, when we
live it, I think we take it for granted, especially
when it comes from people like us, and when people
outside got a lot of corny ship to live through,

(14:42):
Like you know, I don't think they go through the
same kind of pain. They embrace and they do the theatrical.
I think it's more theatrical. Like it's even like with
with dudes who who who spit rise when never shot
a gun and they're talking about shooting guns or never
been in a real beef, it's theatrical, like you know,
for me, I know what it's like to be shot

(15:04):
at and to pull a trigger, and I'm not trying
to celebrate that ship. You know. So with a lot
of people, they think it's just like theatrics they're trying
to put on this persona because they think it's so cool.
But it's like, yo, my dude, Like, if you're gonna
if you're gonna go out there and you're gonna dance
and you're gonna try to look like a hard rop,
you know you ain't really being you because you didn't

(15:24):
you didn't have to live defending yourself worried about being
fighting people every week. But that part was confusing to
me growing up, Ceing B. Street. I was scared of you.
We were a while back. No, no, no, I'm talking
about literally because the way you approached the lead like Lee,
I related to Lee, and then the way you were
just looking at him. I was like, this, dude, right,
here's gonna hurt somebody like it looked like it looked

(15:47):
like how can you not? Like obviously, I'm young, I'm
looking at the time, and to me, be Boying was
gangster like, I mean, wasn't it made to diffuse real? No? No,
that's some bullshit that New York City Breakers made up. Okay,
that's yeah. So they sent the ball Masters that they
were a gamn killing me bro. So the thing is

(16:16):
they did they did that that show that that's incredible,
And I think Michael Holman was kind of like steering
the narrative when they when they were talking. I'm guessing
I could be wrong, but um, look the dudes that
that that put me in rock Steady. They were straight
up stick up kids. And one of them, you know,
he's doing a life bed and his name rings bells

(16:38):
in the system, you know, and um, but they were
notorious and the Bronx, he's kind of dudes that when
they were rolling up to a jam and co course
sees the man whoever sees them, they're like, yo, what's
something like? They're giving them that love. So shout out
to Jimmy d and Jimmy Lee. You know. So those
are the creators of Yeah, yeah, I got that my

(16:59):
notes too. But they were they were notorious. I wanted
from one of the third Yeah, and uh, they used
to hang around one eighty third and Davidson Cresting Crest.
If you went to one eighty third and Cresting back
in this late seventies, you were a stick up kid, talented,
connected or stupid because you you know, you're not going

(17:22):
there and leaving without getting stuck up. It's like when
you went to the disco Fever. You went to the
disco Fever. It ain't like you know, I know, everyone
talks about how great it was in there in the
secret room behind the curtain where everyone's syniphon coke. But
in order to get through that block, you're literally putting
yourself on the line getting stuck up. And thankfully I
never got stuck up, but I went up in there.

(17:43):
You know, makes a noise. You never get stuck up. Yeah,
I mean even we was always we wants to do
it stick ups, right, because that's that's that's what I'm
watching the documentary. And you kept you kept h reiterated,
and that you lived a double life like you got
after the double life. One on one hand, you got
would do a letterman, do a movie, do uh you
know this? And and then or the other half actually

(18:05):
stick it up. I think they said that you filmed
a scene and since you park like at the same
place we used to stick people. Yeah, we did an
anti we did an anti drug commercial with Curtis blow
waight up high. I didn't know that that's what it

(18:25):
was you did an anti drug commercial high yeah, in
the same place you used to roll people. And it
was it was directed by the dude from the Chicago
seven what's his name? They did the commercial the film
on him god legendary leader of the Chicago Seven at
point for rights, right, But yeah, so yeah we did.

(18:49):
I mean uh and uh beach Beach Street ant scene yea,
most of us. I took up the battle scene on
the rock that was the roxy I thought was, oh no,
that's a different one. But in the club scene, okay, again,
most of us were like on acid. That's why I can't.

(19:11):
I don't know why I can't image y'all that because
everyone thinks because we did. I just didn't know. I
think a different drug of anity. But it's cool, man,
bro y'all must have been tripping crack them. But but
the was the paper assid right, because they got different
they got different ass Now you understand, like I'm just

(19:32):
walking around us. Back then, we didn't brag about dirt.
There was no sense thing as like snitching on yourself
like it is now on records, right, you know, so
you didn't do that. You just you did your dirt
and you shut up. You take shit to the grave, Like, yeah,
I'm definitely taking a lot of ship. I'm not gonna

(19:52):
lie to when y'all, when y'all, when I see when
I see in the top of your Japanese risk, you
gonna take all doing let's do it. Let's do it.
So I'm so, but I'm not gonna lie to you.
There's nobody in the world that could have convinced me
that that wasn't real. Like when y'all walked by each
other like this this, I kid you not like I

(20:13):
didn't know what cinematography was like, I didn't know you
felt like it was like a documentary reality. By the way,
I know for a fact that was y'all. Ray Joel,
I know that that dog. Yeah, I know that. I
know that now from knowing. But but back then me
looking at that scene, I could not tell you. I

(20:34):
could not tell you if y'all was acting. You know,
here's a funny thing. We wore well, I think most
of us wore most of our own gear. I think
your seat breakers kind of wore a lot of the
Puma stuff because they were like the main group in
the in the film. Right, But uh, yeah, I mean,
you know, we have to show up, but I don't shit.
You know, a lot of a lot of shit that

(20:55):
they were putting out was corny, So we weren't trying
to look like yeah, and thankfully we didn't end up
looking like the Breaking movies where they're wearing fluorescent clothing
and all that other stuff. It was that, you know,
you couldn't walk through that like that in the hood
unless you were like a Madonna fan female. You know,
I wasn't ready. And one of the things that I

(21:15):
hear you frequently say is you said it was kind
of kind of stop battating at one point because these
guys were actually using your moves and using it against you.
How how could that feel? At first? So my dude,
Jerry Fonton, as I was talking to him one day,
he was like, Yo, rock steady for the nineties, rock
steady for the nineties, and and you know, I was
always thinking, like, Yo, what are we gonna do battle

(21:36):
people who are doing my all moves against us? But
and I was kind of upset with that. But then
he was like, yo, my dude, like you gotta look
at it like this. You created something that people are
doing around the world, right and in the hood were
thinking like, yo, you're biting my ship, like yo, what's up?
And I instead of being flattered by it, yeah, I
didn't know how to be flattered by it yet. And
then at that point I was like, all right, cool.

(21:57):
But in the Bronx we had way more advanced moves
than other people in other boroughs. So and I was
going to use other burrows and they saw me do
what I was doing. They were definitely stealing. I don't
want to say my ship because there was other people
before me, and I don't I never want to like
take credit away from them. But they took a lot
of the Bronx style. And then you know, some people

(22:18):
got it, some people didn't. But you don't get to
be number one without some whack motherfuckers around. Of course,
you know you gotta beat some people flattery, let's say,
flattery lemitation. But like you know, to ask like a
cliche question like big Biggie Small said, did you ever
thought that this would go this far? Like like the culture,

(22:39):
like this commercialization? Because remember at one point being commercial
was whack like if you like almost almost let me
let me let me reiterate that. Not when we started, though,
it wasn't considered whack that Okay, put us on because
there was no industry for us. There was only opportunity.
And bro look, my first show that I got paid,

(23:01):
I got paid well nine. The second show I got
paid anything substantial, I got paid fifty dollars, right, and
it was that that show at the Grille. And when
I got that fifty dollars, you know, I grew up poor, right,
so like like by the time I was eighteen, I
had ten different home addresses and so when I had
that fifty dollars and I was able to go from

(23:22):
my school across the street to the diner and get
my own meal for the first time in my life. Wow,
that you know, growing up in poverty, domestic violence, dysfunction,
all that shit. That ship was everything to me. And
not only that, it was the like, uh all up
to all my people from the Bronx, but it was
considered the burnt down bron Yeah, yeah, the boogie down
bron I'm man, Frosty Freeze always used to call us,

(23:44):
call us the boogie down and burn bron burned down
the Bronx. Right, you know this, there's nice. The last
time you've been in the Bronx. I've went around. There's
like a there's like a park. It's so beautiful. I'm like,
oh my god, I forget where it's at. It's like not,
uh is it? Man? I looked. I was like, they're
fooling people. This is still but but I didn't think

(24:05):
the Bronx would be gentified. It's stubborn, right, It's definitely stubborn.
It's it's probably like one of the slowest moving paces
out of any gentrification in the world. Right, and you
live in Puerto Rico. Now I have a place in
Puerto Rico, and I also stay have my place. Okay,
all right, my back. You know what's crazy. I've recently

(24:30):
um because I had too much sponsibilities in Puerto Rico
at one point, like just just being out there trying
to make the music and just but I recently just
went out there and I fell back in love with
Puerto Rico like this as soon as you and what
was going on with the Puerto Rico Relief that the initiative,
you're yeah, oh oh wow, it's crazy because there's certain

(24:52):
things I can't talk about that because we found loopholes
in terms of how to get supplies legally into into
Puerto Rico legally, but you know, the system would change
if we if I talked about it, and they probably
put a block. There's a lot of political roadblocks to
get This is bullshit. It's all about money. But you know,

(25:14):
I've always felt like, number one, if I felt like,
if I was going to contribute to any kind of
tax environment, I'd rather buy something in Puerto Rico. Started
with that, I ended up realizing that, Okay, well there's
a lot of dysfunction within Puerto Rican history because of colonization,
and if there's something that I could do to help
people move forward, let me do it. But then you

(25:36):
have it. It's in the line of disasters, you know,
hurricanes and all that stuff, and you know, growing up
poor and see my people struggle that that hit me hard.
So you know, I went down there. Rebull helped me
out to U going, you know, get a couple of
private planes of supplies to go down there. I helped
bringing water, right, Yeah, I did water filtration systems with

(25:59):
organism Nation called Waste for Water, where we enabled two
hundred thousand people to have access to turning their water
into clean water. This is when Trump was stolen them.
Ye yes, yes, yes. And then you know earthquakes. I
mean we've we've raised a lot of money, we've uh,
we had an earthquake tool yeah yeah, that was in

(26:19):
between Fiona and Maria. Get the funk out of here.
And that's crazy. Now here's a wild shit. Yeah. So
when you're going into an earth Japanese whiskey, we will
see it. I don't know, yeah yeah, hell yeah, yeah, yeah, yea, yeah,
I'm ready, I'm ready. Yeah yeah. So yeah, and you
had an earthquake. Yeah, there's an earthquake. And and here's
a crazy he says, like you could grow up in

(26:40):
the hood and feel threatened and get something to protect yourself,
But when you're going into a ground zero of an
earthquake situation, I don't care how hard you are, what
you've been through, you have no defense, right, and you
know you're driving right to ground zero, and you gotta
make the choice like, all right, well, this is how
I die. And but the bigger picture is somebody got

(27:03):
to go there, right, And those are the choices we
make when we go into disaster areas, Like I could
die today and I'm okay with that. And you're saying
Puerto Rico was considered a disaster area at that time. Yeah,
every time there's aye, so why like you was so resilient,
this is this is was crazy right, Well it's considered

(27:23):
American property, colony, colony, colony. Yeah, but we technically Puerto Rico,
the state technically Puerto Rico is under military rule, meaning
meaning it was taken by force during the Spanish American
War right after the Spanish is left like eight days.

(27:44):
The United States said, is that why Lois is black?
Black people? To me? And Lois no Puerto Ricos. Puerto
Ricans were originally black b Yeah that talk. Yeah, I mean,
you know, you know, dark skin, you know, and it's
I mean, it's the reason why my hair when my
hair grows, my hair grows into an affro. No product needed,

(28:07):
right you know. But that's that's in US. So Um,
like when even when people talking about the debate of
like Puerto Ricans and hip hop and all that, you know, No,
that's what I'm going you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, Joe
Joe has said, hold on, it's because your motherfuckers some
crazy best Joe. Um, I'm forty five, Joe is I

(28:37):
think a couple of years and I think you're like
ten years fifty seven, fifty seven, okay, so what's that
Joe's like? So for those that don't know, not only
were you know, Puerto Ricans involved with the making of
the music and the throwing of the jams. When it
comes to how people and there's a couple of Latinos,

(28:59):
there might have been some too in every element of
hip hop, like because you know it's fucked up, Just
go for it, bro, because I kids nowadays think hip
hop started with Biggie and Tupop And what's fucked up
is they don't go back in their research, but they'll

(29:20):
have on a pair of Jordan's where he didn't play
forty years ago. Right, how the fuck you making money
off of this? And you don't know your history, but
you know Jordan's. Jordan didn't give not one of us
a free pass yet. But this is our mental colonization. Man.
Do you know when it comes to like people trying

(29:42):
to figure out the history or the anniversary date of
hip hop, which is man suspect right that that date
the year's suspect. It's like Christmas, Like nobody ready Christmas. Yeah,
it's exactly like that. And the thing is that people
have gotten so comfortable with a narrative or the romanticizing

(30:03):
of a particular story or perspective that they're taking that
as absolute. But there's enough data out there to cross
reference and be like, well, geographically time, it's just impossible
for certain things that have happened. And if you're looking
at a flyer and then another person in that same

(30:23):
flyer that says I didn't even know him that year?
How am I? How am I on this flyer? This
flyer's fake. So there's doctored flyers to to make up
the history of him. I'm gonna say it right now. Fuck, yeah, yeah,
there is. But I do understand that we have to
come to a consensus where it's like, all right, well,

(30:46):
we got to celebrate something at some point, but but
it just shouldn't be based off of a comfortable lie.
Because if you're looking at all the archives that are
being acquired by Cornell, Harvard, all these places, is when
they start cross referencing, they're gonna be like, oh, that's
a lie. That's a lie. This person lived here at
this point, he went to that school and all sort

(31:08):
of stuff. And then even on the Puerto Rican and
black things. It's like if you're looking at Disco Mario,
this guy texts Hollywood I believe his name is, and
cou Hirk being those absolute first DJs. Look, if you
were back down back then, no one would know you're Latino,
and there would be no reason for them to know
you're Latino because we just lived amongst each other. Your problems,

(31:28):
my problem. When we get pulled by the costs, we're
getting pulled together in the bronx. So it doesn't matter
whether you're black, Puerto Rican, or whatever. So for you,
your background is what I'm black and Puerto Rican. Okay,
So never had no need to say that back then,
Disco King Mario black and Puerto Rican text Hollywood, Puerto Rican.
But they look like you. And that's the thing that

(31:51):
a lot of people who grow up in areas that
are segregated don't understand. In New York, we're to stacked
up on each other. We lock arms with each other.
You know you're protesting. I protesting with you, and a
lot of places aren't unified community. I heard you say
something real, real important. You said if you was to
take away I think you said Porter weekends. So if

(32:14):
you take away Porter weekends in hip hop. If you
take away Joe Conso's photos that's in hip hop, the
whole story of hip hop becomes very difficult to tell
because he's the first one, and he's from within the
hip hop community to actually document what he was doing,
you know, with just the environment. And he was a

(32:34):
little chubby kid. I didn't even know him back then,
but he just picked up a camera and started documenting.
If you removed all of Joe Conso's photos, everything that
we look at as iconic photos from the seventies, they'd
be all gone because there's no one else. I think
the reason why people even dispute this debate is because

(32:55):
because they're stupid, because look, they're the young, stupid divisionists
or don't come from our area and don't understand how
black and Latinos in New York we fucking rolled different.
Yeah we were not. I'm sorry, like to me, to
my brothers, I don't give a fuck, Like we've never

(33:16):
had to have this discussion, right because it's like, Yo,
your beef is my beef. Let's go. But you can
see how like a person from uh like East Los Angeles, Yeah,
because they're they're so segregated, segregated and there, and then
it's like places like Chicago as well, like where it's
nothing but porter. Yeah, but still still it's still segregated.

(33:38):
Like when I go to you know why I got
the flag. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I
love to go there. But I always remember, like some
of my black friends don't like it, like they'd be like,
oh yeah, but even in the hotel, even those segregated
areas will tell you that historically hip hop was the
thing to bring everybody together. Yes, okay, even in those areas,
it was still happening, right yeah, and you know, um

(34:01):
when you're looking at it, like look, I went along
in the nineties when I started to move around again.
I went to San Diego and there was a sister
in the gas stage something like yeah, give me whatever,
I'm pump whatever. And she looks at me like, where
are you from? And I'm like, she mean where I'm from?
Because she could smell the New York on you. Yeah, yeah,
I said, I'm from New York. She goes because you

(34:23):
don't sound like no Mexican. Yeah, I mean that's what
that's gonna She goes, you black. I'm like, I got
that in me. But you know, Puerto Rican and we
mixed like that. You know what a Puerto Rican was
or this? No she didn't know what putocan. Yeah, no, kid,
you not. If you pass passed Virginia sometimes it changes.

(34:45):
It's still Latinos, but it changes to a different type
of that. Yeah, of course, yes. And you know this,
it's crazy. You know, Dominican is everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I
was in Switzerland and they had a fucking Dominican restaurant.
I said, the price was crazy anywhere, bro, I don't
even think anybody in Dominican the Dominican restaurant. And you know,

(35:10):
I want to be fine forget because I wanted to
just shout out. This is organization UM called the Elijah
Project in Rhode Island and it's black and Latino owned,
and you know, we're starting a huge initiative in Puerto
Rico as well as areas in the United States where
we're going to really reach out to people in different
communities of need and deliver furniture, appliances, all kinds of

(35:32):
stuff and also have a nice partnership with Amazon where
they're giving me budgets to find to source out people
in desperate need as a result of disasters, and we're
just you know, no politics, no religion involved, just humanity,
like just helping people someways helping you just want to
give them some love. Oh yeah, flowers. Well it's crazy.

(35:54):
We want you to know. Our show was about giving
people they flowers. I had so much fun researching and
you know, into your life and we wanted to personally,
face to face, give you your flowers because you're deserve it.
Oh there, you go right over the beds. But let

(36:15):
me give you something then. Okay, cool, let's go. I
got something right here. I'm throwing my glasses because of
old So my man Mayor one thirty nine, who's here.
He was also in Star Wars. Okay, wow, hell yeah
he is. He's the one actually the person who designed
the BT Award as a yeah, we haven't gotten it yet,
which we we wanted. We didn't get it. I can

(36:38):
open it right, hopefully this pops off right. This is
a little present for the show. Anything anything boys to
represent be boys and Vegas to make sure there's always
some B boy Vegan representation. And if you can tell
me what I'm missing over what am I doing? You
can come over here. If you want, yeah, please please, Yeah,

(37:00):
it's something that's supposed to jump off with. But this
is the authenticity of it. Wow, I believe that's your
music for your show. Sorry? Oh shit, Oh that right

(37:23):
on the table. Yea, that is amazing. Make sure wind
up like another award. Yeah. No. Diversity of the culture
in the language. Absolutely, Yes, he's an original too, thank you, brother.
He was probably into hip I don't know if he

(37:45):
was into hip hop before me, but maybe around at
the same time. Now that we didn't even call it
hip hop until like eighty two, and a lot of
people don't understand when you get into that. Yeah, so
in eighty two, So how is hip hop fifty then?
Because you're saying it's blitz? Is it? It's fifty because

(38:06):
you know, some of the elders don't want to stir
the waters, and I get it. But in fifty years
from now, when we're all dead, some person's gonna cross
cross reference and be like, this is wrong, this is
all So you're so you're saying hip hop eighty two,
So what you put it? I'm put it this way.
The people on that that first flyer and a lot

(38:26):
of people are gonna be really upset with me for this.
There are certain people on that flyer who said I
didn't even know cou Hirk on that day. I didn't
meet cool Hirk until two years later. And that flyer
only showed up ten years ago. And what fly is this?
So the famous flyers posted they're supposed to be the
first jam Now, now whose name is on this? Yam? DJ?

(38:47):
Clark Kent, the original Clark Kent, Tommy something. I forgot
his name, um cool Hurk. But Clark Kent didn't know
cou Hirk until two years later. Based on what he said,
he had him twenty five And there's a whole bunch
of stuff like you know, a lot of people think
cool her started breakbeats. No it was a dude name stop.

(39:08):
No no, no, no no no. But here's the thing,
I'll get to the good ship. A guy named John Brown,
that's his name. He's DJ at a club and cou
Hirk went there. And I have coul Hirk's first interview,
so I got the data, I got the receipts. So
in there he says he saw this dude named John
Brown spending at this club in the Bronx and then
he was inspired. Now the thing is that, yeah, he

(39:30):
inspired HERK, but HERK inspired the other people who really
elevated and evolved everything into a different lane. So I
would never take anything away from cool Hirk's contribution, but
I'm not gonna embellish it. And even without the embellishment,
he's still creaming a crop when it comes to the music.
So because that's the one thing I feel like everyone

(39:52):
hip hop kind of agrees with that Cool Hirk is
the father. But he wasn't call the father of hip
hop until Bambia told everyone to stop calling himself the
father of hip hop. He told people, yo, don't call
him Bamba, right, every we all used to call Bamboo
father of hip hop? But why is that? Because Bamboo
is the one who corralled the streets of hoods and
the black maids and bringing out all the well I

(40:13):
mean just in terms of like you know, if you
if you threw a Zoom Nation jam, you'll see co
Chris performing. You see Treacherous three, so sonic for us.
So band was bringing everyone together. Band you know, also
celebrated the b boys and the graffiti, like he made
the elements come together to become he cold, He didn't
curate it like that. But everything was treated as one family,

(40:35):
you know. And in the early nineties, band was like, yo, stop,
you know, don't call me the father of hip hop.
But he was inspired by Herk as a DJ, so
he was because he was inspired by herc. He wanted
to give her Herk the ultimate hip hop thing, which
is not fair because if you start taking a part
the elements graffiti DJ and breaking him seeing okay, who

(40:57):
is his peers in each one that I'm gonna say
the exact same thing about him being a father of
every element. It's not gonna happen. It's impossible. But I
feel like we're talking about Socrates. Yeah yeah, no, I
mean sense are no. And the thing is is that
when you're looking at people like um Graham, mass of Chas,

(41:18):
Mellie mel Uh and different writers like Lee Kenyona's Future
or two thousand Uh Phase two, those dudes are like
the coup hurts of their own element of hop. Right,
So when you say ko Hirk is the father of
hip hop, that diminishes the role of every leader from
every other element of hip hop. But no one ever,
I've never already heard no one else say what you

(41:39):
just said, just now, because they're saying this because I
talked shit, you know, you know, honestly you're saying they're
saying it, but they're not saying they know it. I loove.
I went to a meeting and I'm not gonna throw
any names out because I love my brothers, man, But
I went to a meeting where we were going to
address cook That's okay, another drink, but I'm still a leader, right.

(42:03):
So there was a meeting where someone was sent to
as cool Hirk's representative, and the question got to the
point where, okay, the cool HRK create hip hop and
this is someone that's cool Hirks peered and he was like, no,
but am I going to say that in public? No?

(42:23):
And then he rightfully said, because y'all motherfucker's other ones
who started calling him the father, you know, but we
were told that by Banbada, so we didn't know better,
you know. And even with that, it still doesn't take
down cool Hirk and his influence, his impact on the

(42:45):
community that he served. You know. It's just that there
are more pieces to the puzzle. Look, I could easily
sit here and say yo, I save breaking two times,
you know, but how can I do that without competition?
Who who my battle ain't to have saved it? Who's
number Who's the number one record? You know, there's no
number two. So I gotta give credit to New York

(43:07):
City Breakers and Dynamic Rockers and all the crews that
that I came up with, like from the Bronx Rockwell Association,
the Bronx Boys, start Child of Rock, all these crews
that will never get the attention because they never moved
forward after that point. But I'm still going to recognize them.
Let's get some clarity on what you're saying, because you're
saying herk for the music, So are you saying that

(43:28):
before that? Obviously the graffiti artist and the dancers, that
was already happening. It was. I would say it was
a genesis because because people say that Kirk came from Jamaica, yep,
and he was that's like kind of how bringing the
turntables together. That's a nice story. Oh my god. You know,

(43:48):
if you're talking, if you're talking, if you're talking sound
systems and where he comes from and that coming from there? Yes,
But was that already in New York? Which I've seen
this argument a lot, a lot, so I'll give you
the doubt. There's a dude name Coup dj D who
was already in the parks. Coo dj D was getting
a new sound system. He sold his old sound system

(44:11):
to Cool Hirk. That's when Coo Hurk came into the parks.
The sound system that Ku Hirk talks about, what that
he got from his father was a house system. That's
why he could do the community centers. You couldn't bring
that system out into the parks. It's gonna be like
bringing a little box, right. So Coo dj D was
that dude who he was already in parks. Mario was

(44:31):
in the parks. There was a lot of people who
in the parks, some people doing disco, and it wasn't
as I would say, curated in terms of music the
way Coo Hirk did. Because Coo Hirk is the one
who curated that hip hop sound without a doubt and
you and that, but not specific to the breaks. You're saying, yes,
but the way the party was being done from Cool

(44:53):
Hirk's perspective on changed it. But his inspiration came from
this different people and his sound system came from someone
else as well, So that meant that he wasn't the
first in the parks, right, But even with that, he
doesn't he was still the first major influence on the
larger body of people, and that is fucking amazing, right.

(45:14):
And I can have my differences with the timelines and
inconsistent stories, but I will never take away his flowers
because he deserves those. They just don't need to be embellished. Yeah,
I didn't mean to bring you guys down. It's it's
it's like, I believe that's the first time I heard that.

(45:34):
It's the first time for me as well, like even
if I did hear except the part of the of
the turntables, because I feel like the same way that
people have been trying to take away the Puerto Rican
Latino side of it, they've also been trying to take
away the Jamaican influence on it. So I feel like
there's that argument going on. But here's the thing. I don't.
I don't and I wasn't. I wasn't there a couple

(45:56):
of years before I started, So I don't know if
Cool Herk was playing Jamaican music, but the only person
I knew that was playing reggae was Bambada. He was
playing Yellow Man Guy I can't even think of all
other artists right now, but Bambada was the one who
turned us on in hip hop to what would be
considered rock steady, you know that style of reggae. Holy shit, man,

(46:23):
I mean the tapes are there, you can hear them,
and that's that's and that's the good thing is that
these tapes exist. Thankfully. Tape Master the rest in peace.
He just passed away. And that's another brother. We wouldn't
have those musical references if tape Master wasn't making those
tapes back then. Did DJs do that sometimes? Yeah? But

(46:43):
if there was a first industry hip hop music industry,
tape Master was the dude. He was the first, I
would say, mixed tape king. Yeah, absolutely, so. I would
you say that in your day you would battle to
get your name, But then now it's like in order
for a person to secure their name, they don't battle. No, no,

(47:05):
no no. What I said was in order back in
the days. And if you you had to battle to
protect your rep. Oh okay, these days people avoid battles
to protect their rep right right? Why? Yeah, I don't know.
Like for me, if I heard you was like the
boy whoever and you live like twenty blocks away, I'm
like fourteen, I'm rolling up on your block, like, yo,

(47:26):
you e a fen I don't know what you look like.
You break, you want to battle, we battle right there
in the concrete, or we go find a hallway and
something like that. But that's what it was. I mean,
everyone put their reps on the line. I mean, look
look at if you look at this dude, Gabriel was
out on the boxer. Okay, his his warrior status in

(47:48):
the game, even when he doesn't win. I mean, he's
still held in high regards, right because he's a fucking warrior.
He puts his name on the line, and even after
he fights, his name is very well protected no matter
what the outcome, right. And that's where the hip hop
was built off of. Man, it's all we had, bro.

(48:09):
We were poor, you know. The only thing you had
was just like, you know, some props, you know, maybe
met some girls something like that, and that was it,
Jesus what it was. It was. The money came from
stick ups. It was It's a street culture from the game,
drug dealers with with like backyard right. No, no, no, no,

(48:32):
we no, we didn't do it like that. Um It
was just like I like coming here, Like I was
like the main dude in the streets anything like that.
You know, we you dance, you practice, you get hungry.
They said, you like you was the only way to
jail a little bit. Everyone else with the jail, and
he was like the only one that, like, should I
have been in jail? Yeah, multiple times, but I don't talk,

(48:55):
and that's just it. Like I beat a case where
I was ready to take the charge, you know, I
told my man just stand back, I'm taking everything, and
I beat the case. So you know, I bullshitted my
way through that too, So hold on saying no more,

(49:16):
oh no, no, no, I got one more quick time.
Oh yeah, So you invented the wooden mill, but yeah,
you originally called it the backspen the continue uh no.
So there's two versions. There's just the backspen where you
spend really fast, okay, which I called the whip back spin,
and then the windmill, which was originally called the continuous

(49:37):
back spin with the over legs. Yes, okay. Yeah, So
that was all I did that on like Qatona Avenue,
Toronto and in a hallway just you was trying not
to fall or something. I was trying not to hit me.
You know, those two doorways, slim hallways, tenement buildings. It's amazing,
and I wanted I overrotated, and uh, I just was

(49:58):
trying not to, you know, for the fast, I try
not to hit the walls with my feet. So I
bawled up and sent tripical force with me around and
I started spending real fast. And I did that when
I was maybe thirteen and and and that was what
we called the backs. That was, yeah, the backs been,
the whipp backs been because your leg whips around and

(50:18):
forces you to spend fast. So when did it become
the member the windmill? Probably around maybe within that same year.
I actually called it the continuous, but since we were
after a while, we were already traveling years later, and
people didn't know the names of these moves because more
people were starting to break again, So names changed because
people don't know. When I hanging out with every crew,

(50:40):
we only hung out with our own crew, And at
that point I had I was rock steady crews like
five hundred deep, but it was stick up with kids,
DJ's b boys, DJ's MC's hangout crew writers, all that stuff.
We rolled thick man, do you realize that that's a
writer of passage. Like if anybody is a dancer, if

(51:00):
anybody really wants to take theirselves real, it's like, I
think you got to learn I gotta know the rhym
mail boy Yeah no, no, no no, I'm saying dancing overall,
b boying, but dancing overall. It's like you have to
know the windmill, the move, the moonwalk, and it's like

(51:25):
one other dance. So so how the three dances popping, lock,
and breaking? You know? Um? And then I mean some
people in New York's are called electric boogie, which is
a wrong version of popping locking mix together. It's like
mixing south Side mad ain't get together. I like it.
I like people people call it no, but I mean
mixing the dance steps, which is two different rhythms, two

(51:47):
different rhythms, So you can't do that. So a lot
of people don't know the history, don't know that popping
and locking are two different dances the same way sce
mambo a popping and locking different thing too. Yeah, so
once pop was locking, and how did those two relate
to what you guys were doing? Uh, that's West Coast

(52:07):
stuff and the robot that's West Coast stuff, right, Yeah,
robot popping locker. Yeah, that was the electric Boogaloos, and
the lockers would be one of the ones who are
on Soul Train. And we on the East Coast used
to watch Soul Train and a lot of people try
to show up at the club. A lot of girls
back then would try to do a lot of the
moves from Soul Train, just for like like the social

(52:30):
dance aspect of it, right, you know, it's funny. I
was watching, right, and because I obviously I'm a little younger,
so I don't remember ever anybody not ever being a
breaking on anything but a cardboard. We started that. I
got I got your story. I got your story. But

(52:50):
there's a part that I'm watching and you said that
you were doing it at first on the rubber mats
under the swing. Yep. So when I was saying that
on the former, I was like, yo, he just said
that he started doing this shit on the rubber mats,
and I'm realized, I'm speaking to my friend from the
West Coast. He can't relate at all. He's like rubber mats.
I'm like, you guys never had swings, And he's like

(53:13):
he was saying I don't know. I didn't know what
I mean they had said. I mean I was I
was a kid in too. That's what's funny, Like we
had the lead. Yeah, I'm listening. I'm listening to a
West Coast guy. I'm listening to a SOB guy, and
I'm like, yo, I just heard crazy like say that
if they wasn't on concrete, the safest thing they was
to do was on the rubber mats. And both of

(53:36):
them was like, what rubber mats? And I'm like, you
didn't have rubber mats? And they're like, by the swings,
by the park, you didn't have rubber mats. No one,
this is a New York City thing. I had no idea.
I thought the whole world had fucking rubber mats. Yeah, so,
but describe to people because I also heard you say
that you actually used to do it raw on the

(53:58):
on on on a seaman. Yeah, we we started breaking
on concrete definitely. How was we were bloody well, bloody
b boys lifting all day. Yes, the moons were new
and not mastered yet we'd have scrapes on a on
a lower back say that. So, yeah, there was a
lot of a lot of blood at the beginning of

(54:20):
breaking Wow, So who could whose idea was like, yo,
let's go get the cardboard. So I ninety h t
didn't answer them. In New York, there's a park there
which is now known as rock Steady, but which is
brilliant by the way, they fucking went and got cardboard.
And I don't know who was the first one to

(54:40):
do it, it's one of my guys. So right next
to the park there used to be an Appliant store.
So in between the park and the Applian store is
an alley where they would put all their trash trash
far boys, and the next store to that was a
ninety nine cent store. So we would go there still
still tape, and then we take climb over the fence
full cardboard because we wanted to keep our gear fresh.

(55:03):
Right that's when the carboards from. Yeah. Yeah, it was
to not fuck up your gear to spend okay, okay, yeah, okay,
So we wanted to stay fresh. I mean we didn't
have much clothing to really just jump there, like yeah,
I got my practice clothes and you know, my hangout clothes.
So we would just set up and do that and
I'll send you some images if he needed for the show. Yeah, yeah,

(55:24):
because I ain't gonna lie like me being from New
York City, It's like it's a proud moment for us,
like to see people come together. Like I didn't even
know what we were doing. Like I would go to
because you know, from left Rack City, So I would
go to USA Skating Ring. But I know, you gotta
I got a story about that. I would go up
there and it was like I didn't know it was

(55:46):
a cool club at least at that time. And the
people who wouldn't be able to get in there to
go skate in or whatever, they would stay outside with
the carboys. But these was like the guys like that
means they didn't have like six dollars or three dollars. Oh,
they ain't had no juice, you know. Like and I
would sit out a DJ, so I would, you know,

(56:08):
go there, and but I didn't know that was like
a technique. I didn't really know, Like I didn't know,
like I just would see this and this would be
something like like I said, I'm forty five years old,
so hip hop is older than me. I I have
that in the run. Hip hop is older than me.
I listened to it in my stroller because I don't remember.
I can't remember where hip hop didn't exist, right, you're

(56:29):
old enough to remember the time. Yeah, I. And it's
funny because like as much as people call me a pioneer,
like and then people try to separate generation this generation,
that generation and still don't know the different definition of
a generation, you know. But yeah, I started seventy seven.
So if in my in the way I look at history,

(56:52):
I would say hip hop starting seventy five. Okay, you
know because most of the people, um, who can what's
your name? What's the word? Uh? Stories? Most of the
stories are seventy five, you don't. We just rounded it

(57:14):
off to the nearest tent. I think so, I think.
But I think that's still fair. That still hip hop though, yeah, yeah,
still hip hop. It older, I think it's younger. I
think it's younger by two years. Yeah, but I'm cool
with settling. But I'm also understanding that somebody's gonna change
that ship in the future when we're not around it

(57:34):
and no emotions are involved, you know, they're just looking
at times and and data and location and possibilities. But um, yeah,
So if I started in seventy seven and and when
people say like, oh, Latinos weren't there, I'm like, all right, well,
how long did it take to create before we got
in My brother wasn't first first time I saw breaking

(57:58):
but DJ Africa Islam I was in seventy six. My
brother was. My brother was a member of the organization
which became Zulu Nation. Wow, it's before those mighty Zulu Nation.
So it's like when they're talking about Latinos were in there,
I'm like, my brother was a card carrying member of
the organization. So and then this go Marrio like ko

(58:20):
hirks peers. If you're talking about those three being the
main three, two out of three a Latino. I know.
I think I kind of asked this earlier about why
you think they're trying to take that. I think they don't.
I think they don't understand. Like, like, from my perspective,
everyone in here is my brother, and from a New

(58:42):
York perspective, that's how we rock. And if you grew
up in those areas that have you lived in different communities,
it's going to be different for them. And a lot
of those different communities that if you have a Latin
community here and they're that association with the associating with
anything hip hop. There's probably gonna be a lot of
Latin music there, you know. But at the same time,
we have our own struggles within the Latino community because

(59:04):
if we're not into South Side, if you don't do
a song and you don't drop Spanish in it, that
die hard Latino community isn't going to really see you
as there as anyway, you probably dropped more props for
dropping Spanish. Well, that was why I left it originally. Yes, yes,
trust me, I remember. It changed the game, right, it
changed the game. But I think a lot of people

(59:26):
have a hard time because when you do look at
those early images and there are dark skinned brothers there
and you don't know there Puerto rican Also, because we
didn't have to talk about it and then then check
this shit out, then there are people who were Latino
that didn't know they were Latino. Wow. So Graham makes
a dst first person to win a Grammy and hip

(59:48):
hop because of what he did with Herbie Hancock on Rocket.
He found out three years ago. He calls me up,
like your legs, we gotta go to Puerto Rico. I'm like,
what YO found out? I'm a love. My father's from potted,
Puerto Rico, so that means makes a north from park. Yeah.

(01:00:09):
The hard person to win a Grammy and hip hop
is black and Puerto Rican. Got damn makes nor for me?
Got damn? I think black. Hold, I'm using the bathroom, crip.
I can keep going, keep going if you gotta use
the bathroom, just H'm using to take that's killer baby normally.

(01:01:25):
Thank you. That Scotch bourbon Yo. No that No, that's
some real drinking shit right there. I gotta salute my
hat to you. All right, are we doing quick time
of sign? Right? It's a cool shots light? Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah,
fair warning, fair warning, thanks thankfully, I'm in walking distance. Yeah,
I rope, yes, all you will. Oh you want to go?
You go first? All right. I don't know. I don't

(01:01:47):
know what you're gonna pick with this one. Oh no, no,
you're explaining on the rush you're gonna give you. I'm
worried about the slime part. Two choices, two choices. You
pick one and nobody drinks. You say both are neither
and we're drinking. All of us are drinking. That's it.
So if you politically correct, as you say, neither or both.

(01:02:09):
Didn't we drink with you and we drink with you.
We don't leave you out there by yourself. We drink
which okay, we walk away fucked up to. Yeah, he's
saying politically correct and you say both like like for instance,
right now, fast five Freddy or Ralph McDaniels. Ralph McDaniels. Okay, okay,
you don't have to give an explanation if you don't
want to. If you want Ralph McDaniels, Oh man, he's

(01:02:37):
we need both. Yeah, Ralph McDaniels. I mean, he's one
of the nicest guys you're ever gonna meet in a
hip hop You know, he's a beautiful soul. He he's
authentic hip hop. Even though his platform has been for
rap music, he is well aware and supports everything good

(01:02:58):
enough for me. You'll have TV raps or video blues
based on his previous answer, yeah, yeah, video music style.
It's a Colombian guy that got it. You got you
got Beach Street or breaking two Beach Street. Okay, all right,

(01:03:18):
but we really want to say wild style, old style,
wild style all day. Really, Yeah, we're explaining, Um, it
was more, it was authentic, it was authentic and you
know those storylines of the Oh no, I'm thinking, okay,

(01:03:40):
I'm confusing it with breaking my bad. Uh, there's a
Wild Style. I think that. I think Wild Style is
the genesis for real hip hop movies, even before Beach
Street or anything anything else, because everyone Wild Style is
the first movie to select all of its um cat
as based on actual legitimacy. In the game, there were

(01:04:04):
no record labels involved, so you were in there because
you were actually dope. And if you were in in there,
there's probably like some paperwork issues. But everyone there was
at the top of their game. There was no pen
It seemed almost like a reality. She was so shot,
so raw. Yeah, I should have been loving hip Yeah
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, Jesus eighties or nineties

(01:04:26):
hip hop fun. Take a shot. Take a shot. I'll
tell you why. Okay, go ahead, Well, let's take the
shot first, and then yeah, yeah it take the shot.
Oh eighties is my formative years as as a teenager. Right,

(01:04:49):
so that's like the soundtrack of your life. That's your
first girlfriend. You graduated with the junior high school in Manhatan.
Uh No, I went to Yeah, I went to junior
high school Manhatan. That's why I got my name A
girl in wood. She said you got some crazysy too,
and then that's how she said it, right. Yeah, it
was like Rosario, So nineties, I've been you for like

(01:05:14):
a month, just so you know, I've just been you.
You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm goad um. Nineties for me,
in my mind is like the jazz era of hip hop,
which is quote unquote the golden era is called well eighties,
late eighties, it's golden well, I mean I think it's
late eighties going into mid nineties. Yeah, that would be
the golden era. I didn't know what you mean by jazz,

(01:05:36):
by jazz meaning you had talking all that jazz. No, no, no.
So when you look at NAS and you look at
Pete now Pees Little, yeah took Nas, We took on nineties,
We tooking Tang. Yeah. The production mob d like everything
and and and the lyrical content, yeah was there was
so much diversity from you know, from fight the Power

(01:05:59):
to fucking to the Daisy Age. You know, so I
like that diversity there. I felt like hip that was
hip hop's best voice in terms of diversity. Yeah, nineties,
nineties fuck the police. Yeah. In terms of style, yeah,
because you have political you had love every ver. Yeah, right,

(01:06:21):
because island out there they told my ship we own point.
All right, all right, all right, cool, you got the
next one. MC lighter Queen Latifa take the shot for
all females across the world yet to pick pick. Trust me,
we need and we need both both. Ye Okay, I

(01:06:43):
would say, are you still picking out of there? Yeah,
that's a tough I'd rather not pick. You don't have
you don't have to toss up. Okay, you go for you.
We drank for you. Yeah, we don't want you to
do that because they buy both. Call you say what

(01:07:04):
the buck? Now, I'm just playing ahead. We're going windmill
or head spin wind mill. I'm about to get a
shot for that, because that's all I know. The dude
that's made the wind mail. I'm using you as bragging, right,
like anybody ever say, I'm not hip hop like I
know the nigga that made the wind mail. All right.

(01:07:31):
The next one originally was mad. When we were putting
this in the list, I didn't think they matched up.
But have you seen the mash up they've been doing
with these guys? Wu Tang or n Wa Wu Tang.
They've been mashing up Wu Tang with Nwa with Wu
Tang beat. Right, it's amazing, but it's crazy because we've
been asking this question for the past couple of months.

(01:07:51):
We make it all happens crazy. Yeah, I'm going to
Wu Tang all day because it's that. Is that because
it's the regional thing. Yeah, I'm fucking straight. Right, Yeah,
I'm gonna tell you. I like Nwa though I really
appreciate them, But I mean I'm also looking at the
decades a body of work, right, you know my thing

(01:08:11):
is um, I'm also at East Coaster, so I go
with Wu Tang. But one thing I always give uh
to in the UA. If you never went to California
before and you heard that first album, you were, they
brung you to California because we just didn't know. I mean,

(01:08:32):
I'm like again, I'm younger, Like I didn't know. I
thought California with surfboards. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't know.
These motherfuckers say your mother, you already had the boy
came first iced he didn't come out of came up before. Yeah,

(01:08:53):
I tell you what. They didn't say that in the movie.
Check this came out first. I'm not Tea before we
went up and he was a dancer, wasn't he too? Yes? No,
but no six you said iced Tea, ice C that's
what That's what I but he was already talking about Yeah. Yeah,
that didn't get to me. That got to me. Team

(01:09:16):
might have came out too, but I think before Colors, Yes,
king T, But what's I get? What's the d for you?
Like for me? Because I now I'm like getting older
and like I told you, like I told you, I
must have heard right Because Island first, because when I
heard straight out of Compton, I thought Compton was a jail.

(01:09:37):
So I was like, I don't want to go to
the young Yeah, and I'm thinking like like how people
talked about right Because Island at that time, like yeah,
you know you know what I mean. So but getting
back to my point, Yes, I did hear Iced Tea.
I wasn't old enough to discipher what you saying. I

(01:09:57):
did hear king T, but Nwa was old enough to
say I don't want to go there. Yeah. Their impact
because and I didn't get to see their videos. All
I got to hear was they vocals their lyrics, so
it gave me imagination. You know what I'm saying. Like
it's like read a book. You ever read a book
where wherever this book is that you're there. That's how
Nwa was. That's how I think Nwa honestly, from my perspective,

(01:10:21):
my opinion, Nwa was brought an emotion that hip hop
didn't have before. That I felt like when I had
you heard all kinds of rapping, like the action like
Mellie mell was the was the message, and but n
n w A, you felt that you felt that intimidation
and then p yeah in hand in hand pe But

(01:10:41):
but you felt like this intimidation and anger from Nwa
that you hadn't felt in rap music to that point.
And I felt that that changed everything. Poked the bear. Yeah, okay,
do we take a shot for this or no? Because
he picked wolcheck, Let's take a shot. Let's take a
shot just for uh huh yeah. We we just speak

(01:11:06):
yeah yeah yeah, So right right before we were going
on a wild style tour. That's how far back. Just
make the noise of him flowing so holy shit, I go, yeah, me,
I'm gonna tell you what me. First of all, it
sounds that some wild Ship Africa Islam. Yeah, Africa much
the first DJ from rock Steady as well, and he's

(01:11:27):
an original B boy. But you know, we were all
wild I'm back then, so I go to meet up
at Africa Islam because we're like, all right, we're gonna
get it. We're gonna buy an eight ball, and you
guys were wilding. Oh no, this is only to tell
on the plane. Oh yeah, yeah, come out. Yeah, I

(01:11:51):
remember cigarettes in planes. I don't know if I heard
this correct. You just say you had to borrow eight
ball to set slay it on the plane. The plane, Yeah,
it's thirty people from the hood going on tour. Nobody
got access to anything. It's boy probably the first hip
hop smugglers, right. You know his name is Africa Slam. Yeah,

(01:12:16):
he used to come out here when when we used
to come out here with DJ raw on them. So
when I went to go pick him up to go
on tour, Iced Tea was staying at his place. So
they are here already. I see. It was already connecting
with the East coast. But yeah, we ended up buying
like an ounce of weed and the eight ball and
then we're on the plane and then all of a sudden,

(01:12:37):
my man. You know, people smelling weed on the plane,
smoked weed on plane. Don't tell me you'll smoke yeah, yeah, yeah,
and in the back you just I mean, this is
a time that cigarettes, you smoke weed. The suction he
thought worked. And then our managers like, I don't know
what kind of drugs you guys got on you, but

(01:12:58):
you guy, this better do all of them because by
the time we get to Japan, the police are waiting
for you on the way Japan. Yeah. Yeah, you know Japan.
Don't play yeah yeah, you get canceled for weed in Japan.
So yeah, so you know we're doing that. And you know,
the only I think, the only sober one was like Bambata.

(01:13:20):
You know, everyone's on like acid and blow and weed
and and now we gotta do it. We gotta consume everything.
Now it sounds like a great flight. Though I ain't
gonna lie to was crazy that I'm not gonna lie.
I try. I'm trying to sit here and be like,
oh nah. And then I'm sitting here like this sounds great.

(01:13:41):
The whole back of the plane was a cloud of smoke.
Holy shit. Yeah, and and and the drinks were free
back then, yeah. I mean I always go on like
every plane now and then I look at it and
I see this leftover ass tray in there, like it's
a tiny bit of ass like this was used one. Yeah,
I mean a couple of times. You never flew on

(01:14:01):
a plane where they were smoking, right, yeah, back in
the day, Yeah, Miami that we we were on japan airlines.
That's what it was. Yappanese. Yeah, Yappanese on your parents airlines.
And you know I got I actually have all. I
have a whole bunch of behind the scenes photos from
all those trips that I've never been public. We're gonna

(01:14:23):
we're gonna do out what I'm talking to this dude,
Jeremy Beaver from the National Museum of Hip Hop and DC,
and we're gonna set up a tour of those photos.
Did y'all here's the national question, Did y'all do drugs
in Japan? When y'all landed? We found weed? I have

(01:14:43):
we found weed because I got a picture of Grand
Master of cast holding a bag of weeds. Were smoking
even back then. Huh yeah, just grand he came here,
smoked the whole his whole episode, whole three out. He
smoked every run. Yeah, I mean I'm down. Oh you smoke.
I didn't know you smoke. Okay, shit, you know, we

(01:15:03):
got joints, and you give me some joints I got yeah,
give them one of those, give the one of notes.
This is what the Yeah, please as much as cash, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
hell yeah yo. So there, Now, I got to ask
you this before we go to quick thom slim, before
we go we in it, before we finish it. Hold on,
let me ask you. Okay, let me get one of
those two I got one. I got one, I got
one of them. Give him a lighter, give him lighters on.

(01:15:27):
Thank you. This is an old school questing because all
of y'all started with easy witers. What was the yeah bamboo,
big bamboo, Yeah, big bamboo. I'm my bad, my bad,
big bamboo and easy waters. Right, when did the transition
from joints to god damn, I expect you got all

(01:15:48):
right now you brought it? Yes? Where did it go
from papers? Two joints? Well, the papers were joints back then,
me from papers and blunts, papers with blunts out, my bad?
You know what I meant? Then? That was with white owls,
white owls. Yeah, leather. That's like smoking leather's definitely that
had to be easy early eighties not closer to me.

(01:16:12):
Uh shit, man, like eighty three eighty three, eighty three,
okay around that. Yeah. I used to get shipped for
free all the time, So I don't know all of this.
You said White Owls came before Philly Blunt or was
it Philly Blunt? White owl didn't Dutch Masters, I think
first White House. Yeah, Philly Bloom Moses like everybody would
walk around with Tippo Rilloso. Okay, Tipper Rillos, I remember that. Okay,

(01:16:36):
let's fill this quick time. Let's go back. Yea Dougie
Fresh or Biz Marquis took a shot you dais is
my dude. Man, I love that brother man, so let's
do a shot for him. Yeah, let's do a shot
for it anyway. Yeah, yeah, I like that he picked
but still took a shot. I mean yeah. Biz became
a very good friend of mine, right, and I hooked

(01:16:57):
him up with a bunch of archives and we were
doing it trade. And I found out that he was
doing trades with everyone, but not trading. Does that mean
archives from everybody? I need that soul sonic for records
or mixtapes from yeah business, getting everyone's archives of dupes

(01:17:17):
and then never never hooked up anyone else. You didn't
get the white um cover. But that was dude. All right,
let's go to bust rhymes, a eminem oh buster rhymes, Okay,
radio or podcasting podcast? God make I'll take the shot

(01:17:41):
for that. I'm taking a shot for that. You can
say whatever the fuck you want to over here. I'll
take a drink of that. H m hm DMX or tupacetx.
It seemed like you want to say something about that.
I was never into tupocket And I know people don't
don't agree with me, but you know, it just wasn't

(01:18:01):
my thing. Dmax reminds you of that New York Streets ship,
and I relate to that New York Streets ship the
most right. And you know you ever got to meet Tupac.
I met him once, saying at USA Nightclub and Times
Square and then we had a fight. There's a big
fight in the club after that would me and my
boys and no, no, no, I met him. Then I

(01:18:23):
went downstairs and got into a fight against mop Tops.
You know, he leade for us boot stretching all of those.
We had a big fight with them. Then I had
to fight with the bouncers. It was crazy. You're glad
you calmed down, sir. Yeah, yeah, I mean whatever. Well,
rest in peace to both of them. Yes, Tupac, Yes, legends,
slick Rick or rock him to take a shot, sir,

(01:18:49):
rock him. Let's stop it telling them to take shots.
We got a little manser. I just don't be oneing,
you know, I know everybody got a personal relationship. And
I rocked him because he made a lot of beats
that I can dance too as well. I was into
his lyricism, like you know, I really I already knew
about storytelling from Graham Massa has so that was already
part of hip hop. Who him And at a certain

(01:19:12):
point in my life, I was a five percenter. So
you never stopped being a five percenter unless you start
eating port Still I still don't eat Park, Okay, then
you're still a popercenter. Go so um I when he
was spitting that, it's kind of like when WU Tank
spitch shit and you walked you You were on the
country when they first came out, you know, most of
the country didn't know what the fuck brand Nubian Wu

(01:19:33):
Tang or Rock Him were talking about when they started
spitting knowledge. You know. So I always found it funny
one when white people would recite certain things like yo, no,
they had no idea, they had no idea. Okay, kras
one a Cougi rap. That's a good one. And I'm

(01:19:59):
gonna say, I'm you know what you gotta say. I'm
gonna take Cougie Rap. No, your face is said, let
me take both. Okay, I'm gonna say Coogie Rap Okay.
And that's because you can't lead the witness. And this
is like my whole fucking ghetto trauma of hanging out
with people who are wild, like I can relate based
on like all the people that died around me, and

(01:20:21):
I've been into dirt. What Cougie Rapp is talking about,
I mean, caress one is the remedy for that. M So,
who did you pick? Cougie Rap? Okay, your Colombias and
Dominican of publics, you have distracted? Yea, bro, come on,
I'm talking guys, I talking about which one of you
talking about? Come on, get some work distracted you're messing

(01:20:42):
us up. Okay, m oh whoa Okay, got it big
Daddy King or coo J taking a shot. Take a shot.
You gotta take a shot. You gotta shot so that
drink don't count. You gotta take a shot. He has one, Okay,
he has one. Right, Look it's a little, it's a little. Yeah.

(01:21:03):
Here's the thing. I would have said, Big Daddy Kaneyo, guys,
I would have said Big Daddy Kane. I'm sorry, I um.
I would have said big Daddy came. But what sealed
the deal for me where llo cooj is that when
Red Alert was DJ and that big CD big City
Diner on Eleventh Avenue in Manhattan, I think he was

(01:21:25):
doing the party red Rum and uh Ll show it
up and he got on the mic. He just rocked
off of breakbeats and he spent rhymes that were not
on his records, and he just I was like, oh shit,
like that's what I respect. And that's when I grew
up on So when I saw Ll spitting like straight

(01:21:45):
up fire, like I'm gonna just fucking burn his mic
and dropping him bounced, he did that ship and that's
when I was just like, Yeah, jip beyond records. Both
legends when Yeah Disco Fever or the sound factory, just
go fever because I was lucky enough to get up

(01:22:05):
in there, and I knew I was too young to
even being there sixteen. I went in there at uh yeah, sixteen,
fifteen to sixteen. Did you know you were living history
when you was? Nah? Man, he was wild. We didn't
appreciated about it at all. Say that before I heard

(01:22:28):
you say that you weren't even living in the moment,
like you didn't. You didn't appreciate like anything that you
kind of was going. No, we didn't. So when we
would go to places, first time we went to France,
like hey, we want to take you to go see
a town, We're like, nah, take us to the hood,
you know, and the hood over there, it's like it's Ethiopian,

(01:22:49):
is Turkish, it's rocking, it's yeah. Yeah, So that's what
we felt comfortable. We didn't feel comfortable doing all those
things that I feel like, I'm lucky to have had
a second chance because it would have been nice to
have done some of those things. But you know, you
grew up in the Bronx and you're not cultured, and

(01:23:09):
it's a maturity thing too. I'm sure you were. It's
crazy because yeah, it's crazy because I swear to guard
me and my uncle Wise and my first two or
three tours around like kind of like the world. We
we we were making it our point not to take pictures.
Well that was that was the error. That was the error.
That error. Look shit that we back. Remember when we

(01:23:30):
did the magazine. We don't got pictures. We could even
believe us our memories. I can fix that shit. Yeah, crazy, yeah,
make it up. Goddamn the flyers. We could ask chat
gpt the history. Yeah, when when was hip hop started?
See what that cross references? Holy shit? All right, Biggie

(01:23:54):
or Big L music, Biggie friendship big out. That sounds
like a shot to me. You had a relationship with
big Yeah, that's no, no, no shot, Drake. Come on,
this is drink. Can I let you cheat? That's come on,
let's go shot little stot, Little you deserve your flowers.

(01:24:15):
Shout out, big out, big out. It was funny man.
The rest of when the first time, first time I
hung out with him, he tell me some fucking wild story, Like, yo, man,
you know what tea bagging is? Oh shit, that's when
the girls laying down and you drop your balls in
her mouth. Like, Yo, this motherfucker is funny. I mean

(01:24:37):
his lyrics. No, yeah, I think he signed some point.
I mean, when you meet somebody and he's talking to
you about tea bag, he would say crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
So that's like the first couple of words he said
to you. He just man, that's what he was wild,
Like he said, nice to meet you all that, but

(01:25:00):
know I fuel because you know I grew up y'all
always cracking jokes like that was amazing. Cool. Now, every
time I think about me and a big I love,
I love. Yes, the girl picked me up. It was crazy. Um.
Before he passed away, he was like he was like

(01:25:21):
he was gonna change his style, but he listened to me,
Cameron and DMX and because of that, he just stayed
everything nice. Yeah yeah. So and it was like I
was like, I didn't even know he knew who I was.
So that's always one of the biggest columns. And I
feel he was one of the illest lyricists at that time. Yes,
and and then you know he was there was the
whole thing that he was going to sign the Rockefeller

(01:25:42):
I think if that would have happened and he would
have been here, and that's the whole thing. Also him
signing with with Sony with like with nas like. I
believe that he would make a choice because bigger he
was on Columbia. Yeah, I said Sony, but yeah, it
was all it was a oh yeah, that's yeah, that's why. Yeah,
thank correcting that. Okay, a rock shot or the real

(01:26:05):
rock say taking a shot? Damn yeah, I can't just
I don't you know, heard her thing? There's so few
female representations to take any of them down. Ain't cool.
That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. Right, Oh,

(01:26:31):
this is a good one. Got a cold crush? Oh
thanks crush you Nah, I don't matter. I'm cold crush
all day? Why why? Because that was all right? So
I knew it was first five the other one I
know you didn't matter now don't matter because I knew
co Crush before cast was in Cold Crush. Damn damn.

(01:26:51):
So the original co Crush Brothers was It was Charlie Chase,
a Little Black, Teddy, ted Missus, t Bone, Cisco Kid
and Easy a D with that with Tony Tone and
Charlie Chase. That's the first actual hip hop tate rap
Tate I heard. So that's what got me into it
fully co Yeah, and then you know, then Coquest became

(01:27:16):
like co Curus embodied battling. You know. So everything that
I was as a B boy, co Crush was the
top tier in the rap game. Sounds good to me.
A tropical Quest or brand Nubian. And that's that. We

(01:27:39):
were talking like that because it's like, here's a funny thing. Okay,
here's my here's my inner conflict. I've had issues with
members of both crews. What words yea with Quest, don't
tell me his wife five my dog piece? No, Jerobe,

(01:28:04):
I love Jerobi. Yeah. So I wanted to book Q
tip for something and I wasn't asking for a discount
and he was kind of like treating it like I was,
and it was giving me to run around and was
it time he was dating? I'm Janet Jackson. Uh No,

(01:28:27):
this is maybe like seven five years ago, five six
years ago so now, but this is after Viber now
that I think about it, five years ago, yea after
so all right, So here's the thing. So we have
a back and forth and I'm like, I don't know
who fuck this motherfucker think he's talking to right now.
And it's like I goof around and I could play
and all that stuff. But I could become a different
person if I have to. So this is yeah, yeah,

(01:28:50):
so well it was a different We talked on phone,
but he was banging his chest a little something while
he was on tax and I'm thinking, like, I don't know,
he's confused right now, like he's talking to the wrong dude,
because and I said, you know what, my dude, you
do you fuck you? And by the way, when you

(01:29:11):
had that beef with rex and effects and all that,
all that all that hardware was waiting outside in case
something jumped off. I'm the one that supplied that shit
for you. Yeah, yeah, so that's why. But then I
love his music, you know. So and then you know,
Lord Jamara with the whole trying to separate black and

(01:29:32):
lat you know, as I'm not with that shit, you know.
But then I love you know, I have an affinity
to the gods. Wait, I thought Lord Jamar, I mean
I Lard Jamara. Um, it was Lord jam People are guests. No, no, no,
he said Puerto Ricans are guests in headline? Did he
say that? Yeah. I spoke with him. I spoke with

(01:29:53):
him on the phone and and uh. He started to
get a little live with me on the phone. I'm like, yo,
my dude, Like again, I don't know who the fuck
you think you're talking to, but I'm not the one,
like what's up? And then you know, we get to
the question of like yo, I asked him, like, all right, well,
if you think we're a guess how long did it

(01:30:13):
take to create hip hop before we got in because
now you have to deal with actual facts and timelines.
And they's like, oh, yo, I gotta go get my kids,
Like I'll call you right back. And he never called
me back. But you know, to me, I only make
those calls and I don't do it online because that's
some bullshit. I called them up. You know, we hit
each other up directly. I'm like, you know, because I

(01:30:34):
want to make sure that we're not contributing to the
division of black and Latino people when we need to,
we're we're stronger. It's like, it's like this, somebody told me,
because we have our own ship within Puerto Rico. Someone
said on a panel, They're like, yo, Puerto Ricans need
to decide whether they want to be three million on
the island, five million elsewhere, or eight million together. So

(01:30:57):
for me with black and Latin, you know, I'm like, yeo,
let's sayings together because we got the same struggles, you know,
and at the end of the day, we all know
that dividing conquer is the place. Yeah, and I think
the problem, Yeah, the problem is that a lot of
fair skinned people, whether they're light skinned Black or light
skin Puerto Rican, they start playing that car and that's

(01:31:19):
where it becomes difficult for us because they want an
easy path. So you know, yeah, I don't know how
the funk I got to that because brand Nubian out,
but yeah, man's I got love for both of them.
But I think that's we We all have inner family

(01:31:39):
conflict within hip hop. So I don't think you picked either. Yeah,
I know. Yeah, yeah to the Rex and effect, for
I kind of want to hear this. Okay, So we
know the story, you know, the beef and the first
first story was back exactly so bo Bo that's the

(01:32:06):
big homie. Yeah, so Bo that was my dude, and
we had um some transactions going on, and uh, he
was just like, Yo, we're gonna do this thing at
the mosque, but we don't know how it's going to
happen and we need we need some weight, and I'm like,
all right, I got you covered. So we made sure

(01:32:28):
that a lot of the whale wells around the mosque
were this is when they were gonna squash it, or
this is when he was when they were gonna squash it.
But we didn't know what was gonna happen, but we
had to be prepared. And it was one of us
was from Harlem, right slash Virginia and yeah, so we
had to make sure that you remember what they beef
was about. Yeah, it was hardcore rapp that new Jackson

(01:32:53):
said it in the right. It's some immature bullshit. It was.
It was pity everyone was young, but um at that
time that happened to be have access to certain things
and it was my little side hustle in between jobs.
Haven't hammers huh yeah? Yeah yeah and distribution and yeah,

(01:33:15):
so I just supplied what needed to be there and
make sure that yeah, down I was back in qute.
Tipp was hardcore bro, but he never knew. Like again,
I don't talk like now we could talk because it's
like like I would pass childhood bullshit. Seven had nothing happened.

(01:33:36):
It's like seven years. This is we told about thirty years. Yeah, yeah, no,
but there's no statutory on murder. No, no, we can't
talk about that. Yeah, thank nothing happened. Yeah no, exactly.
Nothing happened, thankfully because at the end of the day,
for you and for hip hop, yeah exactly, because that
would have been bad for everybody, everybody. But you know,
to me, I just felt like, yo, qute tip just
say yes or no. You don't have to string me

(01:33:57):
along like and don't talk down to me. Especially you
don't even know that I fucking had your back and
you didn't. I never even threw that at your face
to let you know that I was the one taking
care of everything. I mean, maybe it was a miscommunication
with you guys on the day. I mean, I'm trying
to benefit all cute tip man's act. Hey, here's the

(01:34:28):
thing I think, but you got to work it out.
Yeah yeah, but but but somebody should never underestimate the
power of a person in front of you. You know.
And I may she'll be cool or whatever, but if
my back's up against the one, I have to flex. Yeah.
I have the means, But I also don't hang out
with certain people because I know that if I have

(01:34:52):
an issue, they want to accelerate shit to the worst level.
And I'm like, I had to stop hanging out with
a lot of people that would ride or die for
me like that because that should will get me killed. Right,
Let's stay positive energy. Yeah, I'm more about helping people,
pushing hip hop and yeah, let me tell you. Yeah,

(01:35:15):
here's the thing you do not understand. Number one, I'm
proud of you guys because thank you. You know, not
many people can maintain that relevance this long, that this
game and giving it to our heroes. Yeah. Yeah, and
it's just hold on, let me just stop you for
one second. I don't mean to make it's about you,
but you're a hero. Thank you, like um all the

(01:35:38):
things that hip hop has received a black eye for
a long time. Yeah, and sometimes I won't fall absolutely Okay, Yeah,
I know I know the dumb shit that I've done
in my life. Right, Okay, let's finish quick time A
slim well he was saying, he was talking, Okay, let's talk.
I forgot I got love for both of them were

(01:36:01):
already trained. Okay, yes, New Jack City or Juice, uh
New Jack City. Okay, you don't need to explain unless
you want to. No, I just didn't like the fucking
last line of juice. I'm like, well, you got the
juice now, because you remember when that word came that work. Yeah,

(01:36:25):
it was. This was corny the way they used the way.
But I mean, juice is a great mean you listen
to that and then you hit rock Kim's Sake the juice. Okay, Um,
this one. I don't know where you're gonna go with
this one. You're saying it, yeah, I gotta go. I

(01:36:47):
gotta say this one. Nas or jay z Nas I've
I bought and and those are two of my top
all time MC's. But there's no other M in every
form that I bought more than Illmatic and what you
meaning form from CD, VINLS, TD to everything. Yeah, because

(01:37:11):
you know I DJ also, so that means your records
getting sucked up, stolen or whatever, and you know you
gotta have that allomatic. Your alomatic saved my life. I
gotta do. Yes, you gotta do that vinyl or tape
vinyl or tape NL. And that's the ef An answer too.

(01:37:31):
I think you take a shot just for that. Just
you relax, relaxed, relax. The next one is a good
one for me. Kick Capri or red Alert, Red Alert. Okay,
I know Kick Capri before he blew up. I know
him from the nineteen eighty when he used to hang
out with this other crew over on the Upper West Side.
So yeah, I knew him before his fifty stallion at

(01:37:54):
that time. No, he was you know, he happened to
I don't want to get him something. He used to
hang around with this group called the Shamrock Crew. Uh.
And it's funny. Shit is that they're fucking Shamrock Crew
but they're all black. I didn't get that right. Yeah,
I'm gonna tell you a funny stories. So we're in

(01:38:14):
a Zulo meeting one day and this brother walks in.
It's like a recruitment day, and you know, we bug out.
We're all stupid. But you know, if somebody say something
funny or or something to make you think you're gonna
say something. So say you had the Zulu meeting, Zulu
Meeting and bron day in the nineties, recruitment day. Yeah. Yeah,
So this dude, there was this one crew that comes

(01:38:36):
in and they will all put Puerto Rican and they're like,
we'll called the lepre couns, and Bambada's like, okay, well,
if you're gonna call your selves out of what you
are culturally, why are you calling yourself like that, like
you're like lucky Charms or what it was your deal?
And then this other brother, he was super dark skinned
Ethiopian style, and this motherfucker says, yeah, my name is Spook,

(01:39:00):
and we're like this, like yeah, what the fuck? Oh
my god? Oh yeah, oh Baky has kicked. All right,
let's put critize. We want to talk about. Okay, guy,
Studio fifty four, Land Quarters, Latin Quarter. Yeah, I've never

(01:39:23):
been there, but I did perform at Studio fifty four
in nineteen eighty or eighty one. But you said you've
never been to where like quarter, never went to lan
Queener Pickie land Quarter. Yeah, because that's a significant hit,
legendary right right right? Yeah, I respected that. Yeah, Okay,
you want to do take this so me and yeah,
and you always say that this is the only one

(01:39:44):
that everyone should kind of take a shot for because
we believe one goes with the other. But it doesn't matter.
You can do whatever your it's loyalty or respect, oh, loyalty.
Loyalty is the definition of respect. We agree. Yeah, that's
why we're taking a shot for that. Yeah. Yeah, that's

(01:40:10):
not why we're taking a shot for We're just taking
a shot. You wanted to elaborate on that, like, why
is loyal to the definition of respect? Um, you can
still respect someone fuck up on them, but you can
still be loyal to them. You know. I could fuck

(01:40:32):
up on you, could be whatever's going on in my
own head. Yeah, but intent is everything. I don't intentionally
mean that ship And at the end of the day,
we could be at odds. But if we have a
certain amount of history between us, when you're at your
worst moment, I'll be there for you no matter what.

(01:40:54):
I expect that. Yeah, I'm that dude. Let me ask you,
when you've traveled internationally battling, what country has been the biggest, like,
you know, the biggest headache and battle, like who who
really was a force to reckon with internationally? Here's the thing,

(01:41:17):
like a big battles, international battles and all that stuff.
I've never really had to do. Um, But what I
recognized is what other people bring to the game. And
a while back, I went to Russia to this place
that's close to the border of Kazakhstan and was born
back there, so he was battling. And here's the thing.

(01:41:38):
All these little white kids are like the best dances
in the house. They got fucking mad, soul flavored rhythm,
and I'm thinking, like, what kind of pain did these
motherfuckers go through? Right, you know? And then they told
me that they were from like a war torn area,
and yeah, so so what growing up the way I

(01:41:58):
grew up and all of our it's around us. I
was like, yeah, I get it, Like I can see
like like when like either you have I feel like
either you have soul or you don't, or you just
haven't found your lane yet. But when you see people
who are dancing and that it's not theatric it's just
the real pain that they show, I think that's dope

(01:42:20):
and I can relate to that. So it was there, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And you know, sometimes I feel like you could be
like the dopest visually dynamic person, but if I could
walk away feeling your emotion as you're rocking out, that's
more important to me because I'll remember that more and
I'll never forget those kids now, Like I'm bringing it

(01:42:42):
up now, I don't know they've never met them, but
they left an impression of soul in me and that
was better than any meals like in that part of
the world. And I and we we've talked about this
story several times, like they really fight to have hip
hop in their lives because we went nothing else, like
we had nothing. We went to Russia and the people

(01:43:04):
that brought us out work were called hip hops, you know,
Russians against racists, like they were bro and then they
had they had they had the buttons. It actually star yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I've had interesting experiences in Russia. No, Russia's hard.
I was brought out there by by Lola Card. Oh,
which is what Ola Card. The people that run ship

(01:43:27):
the richest motherfucker the un likes people like the people
that that's yeah, these are like the richest people. And
when you're talking about power, these people can just like
open up a bank in the middle of the night,
that kind of power. Yeah, so I got to do it.
Russia is an interest. It was good financially good, but

(01:43:49):
we didn't we didn't enjoy ourselves. No, we went to
the clubbing man has key masks. Let me connect you.
Then I got the blood. We got the heat phase.
I want to go, well, after they stopped fucking warring. Yeah,
you know the Russian people, Funny and the one who

(01:44:10):
made this right here, he also used to be a
stick up kid too. Goddamnit, he's throwing you under the bus.
This motherfucker used to walk walking around with a big
ass blade corporate. Yeah no, and Sunny didn't murder yesterday.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah nah. But you know, I think

(01:44:34):
number one. I don't know if you ever heard anyone,
but you know, we actually used to go sticking up
with your brother too, wow with with Hey, I'm gonna
tell you how dumb ship was back then, since we
were so young and and I'm not gonna throw their
names out there, but there was these two kids that
we stuck up outside of a graffiti like now an

(01:44:56):
art supply store. They had just they had just stolen
away whatever they stolen, and then we robbed them, and
then a week later they became part of my crew.
Makes sense. Weird shit, but let's get let's get to
this story right to New York City Breakers. They were
originally floor masters. Yes, and you hand picked the floor

(01:45:20):
masters because according to their story, I believe this is
their story. Their story is convenient, but their story was
you guys picked them because you thought that y'all could
beat them. Now. So we had this show coming up
in the Grill nightclub and that was like nineteen eighty two,

(01:45:40):
and we were tired of doing shows where we would
perform a battle y'all against each other each other, yes,
and we knew we had these little rivalries in the city,
like New York City Breakers, some of them we all
went well, some of us went to Kennedy High School.
And I was just like, y'all, you know, the same
way I selected Dynamic Rockers, which got them into Star Wars.

(01:46:02):
I selected New York City Breakers because it's like, yo,
let's have a real battle, right, And that's how And
then it's funny thing is that Michael Holman who became
that manager. He asked us that same night, like hey,
I want to be a manager, and like like as me,
Frosty Freeze and take one and again like arrogant, ignorant motherfuckers.

(01:46:25):
We're like laughing in his face, like nah, I get
the fuck out of here. No, hell no, And he
ended up meeting Floor Masters that night, and that's how
they became New York City Breakers because he started managing them.
So floor Masters floor Masters became New York City Breakers. Yeah,
did they have other I swear there was floor Masters

(01:46:46):
out here in Miami. No, it may have been a
different crew, Okay, yeah, but they didn't have chapters Flora
floor Flora floor floor floor. You know flow who from
the commercial she gives you so but I'll tell you
a wild story just to your show. One day, we

(01:47:06):
go to dance Cteria, right, and we go on a
night that isn't our night. And this is a place
where you mean, isn't our night? Like like like we
had like that party that went from the grill went
to danceteria. It was called Wheels of Steel, and yeah,
would have from Tuesday or thursdays. It would be on
like Wednesday, Wednesdays. Because then it turned the name of

(01:47:27):
the party was Wheels is still Wednesday, Okay. And so
we go on a different day. I'm like, hey, you
know the guy's guy who's a legendary dorman, uh danceteria.
Here we ended up being like the guy at the Palladium.
Um like hey, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
no no, this is guy Howie. Uh so yeah, I

(01:47:49):
know I know, yeah, yeah, and I got beef or whatever. Okay.
So um, we go into that ceteria and we're going
there like we all dudes like from the hood, and
it's just like all gay, Like all right, well this
might not be all night. So it was a gay

(01:48:12):
gay it was a private party. It turned out that
it was gay. And we go there and we're like
looking on stage and it guys on the mic, and
then all of a sudden he brings someone up on
stage and dude starts giving him head on stage and
we're like yeah, and we're like yo, all right, well
we gotta get out of here now, like this ain't
our scene. Let me do that thing. So I get outside.

(01:48:34):
I'm like, yo, how we um just happened on stage?
Like what's going on? Oh that's Freddie Mercury. Oh s
birthday from Queen Freddie Mercury from Queen. He was the
one get yeah, And I'm like, yo, what the fuck man?

(01:48:55):
It's it's it's it's crazy but legendary all at the
same time. Hey, I wanted to I may as well
bring something good, right, I don't know what to say,
you know, pretty Murcury though, right from Queen. No you
don't know who it is? Yeah you do? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, even a rhapsody up. Yes, but no, some

(01:49:24):
of my point is no Instagram back then. No for
hip hop back yeah, for hip hop back then. The
reason why hip hop became successful was because there was
a genesis of the reggae scene, the punk round scene,
and what was happening in the hood. So all those
things coming together, it was just like a culture shock

(01:49:47):
and we're like, y'all, these motherfucker's a wild or whatever.
But at the same time, even with with like whatever
the gay scene was, and even if a lot of
us were like raised homophobic, um, a lot of that scene,
they're the first ones to give us a stage. It's
the counterculture side of it. Everything was counterculture. Yeah, that's punk.

(01:50:08):
It was all counterfuls. And our manager was a punk person.
There was a lot of gay people within her world,
and those connections that she had to put hip hop
on stage was from that community. The same here in Miami,
some of the first hip hop parties were at known
gay clubs. Not the parties weren't gay, right, not, but

(01:50:29):
the only people that would allow the parties to happen
in their venue were venues that were doing gay events. Yeah, easily,
that's facts. The person who got us true are yeah
yeah moment man, no no, no, no, hey that I
brought you up. That's oh, it is what it is.

(01:50:56):
It is what it is. That was a venue that
and it's been this. But here's the thing. Here's the thing.
Either we could confront our reality. It is our way
through life. It doesn't make you anything different who It
just makes you a better person to be able to
like be like all right, cool, well, no problem whatever

(01:51:18):
you know. But um but at the end of the day,
you can't deny that. Like, if you want to talk
about how hip hop got its platforms, its first platforms,
you might want to question who those people were, because
there may have been people there who are looking out
for you that you actually grew up not liking. Expand

(01:51:39):
on that, meaning that if you're a fucking homophobe but
you don't know that and you love hip hop, but
you don't know that a lot of those clubs were
clubs that were owned by gay people or run by
gay people, but gave hip hop its first platforms, it's
how oh shit, and then you gotta hate them, like

(01:51:59):
I'm not a homophone. I don't give a fuck. You
know it ain't hurting me, right, and you know that's right. Yeah,
that's real. Yeah, that's real. So let's talk about USA
Skating Ring. You went out there, yep in Queens and
you said you broke even uh yeah, yeah. So we
went out to their turf and to me, if I

(01:52:19):
battle you on your turf for your crowd and it's
and by by audience, it's a tie, I'm not. I'm
thinking in my mind, yo, we smoked these motherfuckers, like like,
I'm in your neighborhood and it's a tie, and we don't.
We don't. We're not bringing our own judges. So we
ended up getting a gig at Lincoln Center August of

(01:52:40):
eighty one, and and and we're don't watching Lincoln Centers
in Manhattan. I always thought Lincoln Center was in the bronx. Well,
what what's the thing about Fordham for the Forum? Because
for Fortam has a bronze campus. Okay, so um I
invite you know. That's that's how we ended up battling
dynamic rockers for a second time. And that's when it's

(01:53:01):
like for Melsey's on my we are I don't even
know who the DJ was. But um, it was the
first time hip hop was at Lincoln Center, right, and
that was just like the definitive, like neutral ground, like
we smoked you motherfuckers, and like if you were interviewed them,
they would never talk about it, right, it never even
comes up in there in their history. Mister lead you

(01:53:23):
over there making noise in your way, Dominican b B.
You're the only one talking. You know, one who starts
he makes the stone gave me quiet, no one, no, no,
we don't like listen. We know we know that. I'm
gonna tell me to do it, mister Lee get to

(01:53:46):
Porto Ricans and not getting along. God, so they were
like the new the New Hicks. We already went through
our face all shit, crazy likes. Hey, but it's true
at one point we went them. It's always a new group.
And now in New York, well, I'm not gonna get it.
They'll get offended if I bring it up right now.

(01:54:08):
Oh now, mistill, He's like, I can talk now. You
always have people us at the handball court because we
were nice. Yo. But but but yo, bro, how the
hell are you have the Benjamin Button's disease? You would
verse in ages. You still look exercising of dancing. Actually,
I slacked off on my exercising. I love boxing, that's

(01:54:31):
my that's my that's my first love right there before dance.
So I love doing that. And um yeah, my girl
fucking be on my case because she's Japanese and she
eats different. Yeah no, I think, Um, a little bit
of denial goes a long way. It's gym, a little something.

(01:54:52):
I choose not to be overweight as best I can,
and that's difficult because throughout my life, I've been through
a lot of injuries. If you know, like if there's
like the six million dollar man that's to me, I've
had maybe seven surgeries. I probably need three more. Yeah

(01:55:12):
remember him. And you know, it's crazy because I'm a
part of hip hop, which the element determines when you stop.
You know, it's not me. The element decides that. It's like,
all right, your body's done. You can't like you can
keep you can spit bars. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, it's
all good. It's cool. Yeah, I ain't injuring my elbows. No, nor.

(01:55:36):
I used to be going like, you know, what's a
crazy thing had? And this is like the main turning
point for me as a kid is that um I
was scheduled to be in the Junior Olympics for boxing,
but I didn't have the fourteen dollars registration fee and

(01:55:58):
that was when it was like, okay, well I'm gonna
be dancing instead. So you know, boxing is my first love.
I love fighting. I don't mind getting punched in the face.
It's cool. It wasn't um uh v boying and the
Soufa Olympics wasn't in the Soufa Olympics. It was in
the Youth Olympics. It's called in twenty eighteen and what elsidas? Okay,

(01:56:19):
yeah cool? And now is is it going to get
in the twenty It's in twenty twenty four Paris? And wow? Yeah.
I mean I still have my reservations because I need
to see how it plays out. Because to me, if
there needs to be a pathway that leads back to
the hood, that creates a level playing field for black

(01:56:40):
and brown people to be able to have access to
the resources that gets them to your Olympics, because it
comes from us, and if it comes from us, we
should have that first opportunity at a level playing field.
And are they also going to create some sort of
ambassadors to ambassador ambassadorship ambassador ship program that leads into

(01:57:03):
communities to educate people on how we as a people
contributed and created this, because how does this system work?
Like these people come and compete and then if they
win the Olympics, they get the gold medal or whatever. Yeah,
if they lose, they completely out of they go straight
back to the hood. That's it. So and so for me,

(01:57:25):
at the end of the day, is the Olympics the
great fucking international platform. Yeah, it is what it is.
But basketball is in the Olympics, but the Olympics will
never be the NBA. So we need to maintain our
ship when it comes to like those independent events that
hip hop throws and continue to support those because the

(01:57:46):
Olympics is once every four years to make hip hop
and the people here the elite, yeah, just like NBA elite. Yeah.
And that means that we have to lift each other
up instead of take each other down. Right, That's real.
That's Could you imagine people training to be in the
Olympics as B boys and B girls and they don't

(01:58:06):
even give a fuck about hip hop at all as
a culture. I can't imagine that like, I want to
train to play handball and the Olympics. Yeah, but you're
Puerto Rican player. I did think handball me too. Olympics,
I would like, oh I thought it was no. Hey,
I'm gonna tell you that they called it some mother
ship when it was in the Youth Olympics. They called

(01:58:27):
it some they called it so not one. Like like,
right now, one of my messengers missions is, uh, can
I raise some sort of money through some sort of
corporation or organization that is hip hop to support the
people that are representing breaking in the Olympics, because right

(01:58:48):
now there's not one hip hop entity that's supporting any
B boy of B girl in the Olympics right now.
So you're telling me Rock Nation is not nobody, No
Rock rocks that zero nation nation, Yes, one revolt, no one,
absolutely no boy. And these people need and here's the

(01:59:10):
thing they need to nobody. No One's zero. That's a
pill nobody about rock Steady. I would tell you, well,
if we had the resources, I do it immediately, no problem.
I mean I should maybe just say that maybe if
you say, maybe maybe this is where it happens, you know,
G unit Unit. But shouldn't Rock steady, be like consultants

(01:59:32):
to what they're doing to oversee. Yeah, but then you
have to figure out, like, all right, who are the
people leading cash money. I don't think the record of
that money. I don't think the record should be pair enough.
I mean to sponsor, Yes, sponsor made some bread, sponsor,
Yes we want you know what I watched. I watched
this golf tournament that it was similar to that where

(01:59:53):
if you win the golf tournament, you get everything, but
if you lose, you get nothing. But the people that qualify, Yeah,
but the people that don't get nothing, they still have
private jets, They still because these people who sponsor them
just because they had their logos on yeah yeah, something
like that. And that's what I'm trying to advocate for
because I know the brothers and sisters that are in it.

(02:00:13):
And if it's crazy, because six hundred thousand gets from
through the next year into the Olympics to be able
to make the qualifiers, hire a trainer, you know, meal programs,
all that stuff doesn't even start at the qualifying level
like the DS like like DMC, like shouldn't it be
like that? Yeah it does. But I know the people
who already guaranteed to go in who have done enough already.

(02:00:36):
But it's like they may have like small sponsorships here
and there, but there's no one footing the bill to say, yo,
you're good from here to the Olympics. That should only
cause six hundred thousand dollars. That's it each person or
the whole group, the whole group, oh wow, to give
them some peace of mind and be like, yeah, I
don't have to work, you know, I could just focus

(02:00:57):
on dancing, you know. I mean, if it's Olympic, that's
the way it should be. Yeah. And then the fact
is that like that ship was born here and a
lot of watches got more. Yeah. So the thing is,
if you look at I think a lot of the
other countries, they're supporting their people. The country US is
not not one company in the US. But let me

(02:01:19):
ask you, is that hip hop's responsibility? And that's but
that's why I set first. There's not one hip hop
entity that has stepped up. But maybe we don't know that,
like maybe no, but but actually I know what you're
stepped up to inquire. I'm not gonna bring them up,
but anybody but yeah, yeah, nah, nah, you have another
shot get this man another shot, and we go we're

(02:01:41):
gonna We're gonna play at least you know how I
get down. Yes, yes, yes, yes, but you know you
know what this is. This is I don't take a
shot too, this is this is a hip hop save
his own I believe that people are four fallers. You know,
CO signed this show. And it's not about you know,
blowing nobody up. It's just about telling the truth, not
to say you know what I mean because you had

(02:02:04):
a brother on here the other day and we went
and and and and and then he says to me,
you know this, this is gonna get me in trouble, right,
And I go, it should right, and it should? You listen.

(02:02:25):
I say this a lot. Maybe I didn't say this
on the show, but the truth is more powerful than
a lie. Always if it's a truth, Yeah, if it's
a truth, go for it. The truth is more powerful
than a lie because a lie you don't identify with
the line and correct. A lot of lie will go
away eventually. But the problem has their own truth. No,

(02:02:46):
not when it's four niggas at his own table and
everybody saying I remember that that is one's millions percent
solid to the truth, and when you try to run
away from that, it's going to pot back up. That's
all I mean. Hold on you, I'm gonna tell you,
like when it comes to the truth. The way I
see it is like this, there's a lot of people

(02:03:06):
that I know. I know that the deep shit, that dirty,
I know that dirt. But even if they die, it's
that the safe zone because when they died, it's still
got kids. I gotta fucking live that legacy. I don't.
I don't want, I don't, so I choose to make
sure that you know, honestly, like if we did dirt
together and you fucking even if you turn your back

(02:03:28):
on me, I'm still not gonna snitch, you know, because
it's bigger than that for me. And that could be
my own ghetto trauma, stupidity or whatever it is. But
that's just however, and that's everybody should have moral grounds
that they stand on. I could suck up a lot
of people's careers right now easily, you know, and people
I probably deserve it, but I'm still not gonna do it. Right, Okay,

(02:03:54):
that's real ship. Now, let me ask you, B boy
originally stand for boy. Yes, yeah, So we established that
breakdown dancing isn't what B boy. So when you see
people from Brooklyn calling itself a B boy and people
from Queens, yes, no no, no, no no no, so
no because she evolves and that's cool. Only it's only

(02:04:17):
when you're not that. So I was in San Francisco
and like around ninety three and I go to this
event that run DMC isn't and you asked one DMC
about the B boy and they say, because when it
came to Queens, it's signed a f lie Yes, damn ye. Yes.
I didn't know that. I didn't know. I was like,

(02:04:37):
I was like, because I was sitting there, I was like,
fuck to say the juth as a queen's worst. I
wish they had a better answer or was that. I
appreciate that because then we found out that jam Assid
Jay was actually a B boy. Oh that he actually danced, Yes,
oh yeah, jam Master Jay and everything was a B

(02:04:57):
boy though, yeah, yeah he was. He was. He was
for them too, you d y yeah, man during the
Source Awards, which Source Awards, Oh, I'll tell you When
run DMC was performing, I was in the nineties and

(02:05:18):
I feel like rock Steady DJ's at the time mixed
Mass to Mike Hubert and DJ Appollo. They were performing
after Source Awards as rock Steady DJ's and they did
their routine in rehearsal, did the Peter Piper routine in rehearsal. Yeah, yeah,
they did that routine. No one said anything. So during
the show they started doing that running running. The gonna

(02:05:43):
perform after, so they're pissed off because nobody wants that
music played before they performed. And they pulled the plug
on them in the middle of in Madison Square Garden
and I'm sitting like in the front row and i
just feel the plug run DMC, run run run run,
pull the plug on the DJ playing his music. Yes,

(02:06:03):
yeah on the DJ. I'm saying, yeah, yeah, I feel that.
So I ran up from I ran up into the
stage and the back audience and me and him talking
shit like it, and I'm like, yo, what the fuck
you know, because okay, let me stop me for a second. Recently,
I see Whiz Khalifa come on stage and do the

(02:06:25):
same thing. He'd be ready to DJ like he went
in and then I see every DJ in the world,
Oh you mean yeah, yeah, that was why kind of
like go against them the situation you're subscribed. No, no,
this is different because they did a rehearsal, everybody knew
what was gonna be played. But in the middle of
the show, in front of a packed audience of seven
thousand people as a paramount theater, they're gonna go pull

(02:06:47):
the plug on them and humiliate them. They came from
San Francisco this j yeah. Yeah, And so you know,
me and run mostly got into it, and and you know,
he was up in the stairway and I'm trying to
get at him and people holding me back because it's
just like, yo, I'm not gonna let you bullying my

(02:07:07):
dudes there, my crew, I don't give a funck who
you are. And yeah, that was it. I'm still a
fan though. Did you have an aff at the time
at that time, yeah, Bruce Water, No, you envisioned his
own like you know, I'm good man. I had to

(02:07:31):
put this up like this all right before I'm all right,
this is this is this is a pre question. But um,
I gotta ask it because I see people trying that
we created. Can fat laces ever come back? We started
fat Laces that ninety nine cents store. Don't tell me
don't tell me if we use its store ye from

(02:07:54):
elastics that would be used for um uh do you say,
what's the word? I'm looking for people who who seem
stress and shit like that. So that's how we started.
From our perspective. Even before that fat lass was about
taking regular laces, wet them, take the tip of the iron,

(02:08:16):
pressed down and then widened them out. And in the
seventies and then yeah, yeah, who made the creases? I
don't know, man, you gottat that's some Yeah, that's some
older dude ship and I see that and paid in
fall and he was asking for the creases. Yeah, I
used my creases on the leaves riders. Well you should

(02:08:38):
snatch Lee patches. Uh no, we would. There was this
place called Martin Brothers on Fordham Road and then they
had a patch that said ONYX and those are like
the high end Lee riders. But that was the spot
we got our leaves over there. I should snatched Lee
passes patches and collect um the Mercedes bench Oh yeah,

(02:09:00):
but Cadillac I was so poor. I was pop the ship.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I was like like, yo,
little Poppy, we know you don't Lettauck Cadillac. Hey, I

(02:09:23):
just want to be clear on one thing, Like, so,
to me, when I talk about the negative shit in
my life that I've done or I've been a part
of an experience, it's not to brag about it or
celebrate its history. It's just no, it's yeah, it's history.
But at the same time, you know, to be able
to turn your life around and just walk away from

(02:09:44):
shit before it hits that next level, you know, there's
a lane for that too, you know. And I guess
trying to show people like yo, you know, yeah, we
all come from a lot of us come from a
fucked up situation. I can tell you ship that alow
your mind. But but when um people hear those stories,

(02:10:05):
but they don't hear like hey, but I'm doing this X,
Y and Z right now. You know, we gotta give
that contrast to give them some clarity, like, Yo, my dude,
you don't have to stay stuck on stupid or or
be susceptible to that peer pressure, you know. And I
think that's the power of hip hop, to be honest
with you. Although you know, hip hop has a bad

(02:10:25):
rap and there's a lot of fucked up shit, but
I think that's the illest part about hip hop has
turned a lot of people's lives around. Yeah, it's giving
us lives. Yeah, it's giving us careers, it's given us pathways.
Most power in the world right now, Yeah, not just
but not just musically, like in this totality art. Yeah,
it's amazing artists selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars now.

(02:10:49):
So yeah, like my boy that was just tagging and
bombing and fighting in the streets over fucking tags. Now
he's fucking selling his ship for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
You know, Like it's amazing to see that, you know,
to see b boys and be girls that that that
that there were just these hood kids in the neighborhood
dancing traveling the world. You know, that's amazing to me.

(02:11:10):
And you danced for Queen Elizabeth. Yeah, Elizabeth and Queen
but she's on the land, Madonna, and you grind it
on Madonna. You're grinding on Madonna. Yeah before she blew up,
she never That picture out there was taken by Henry
child Fund and it was at dance sing terriat No, honestly,

(02:11:32):
I'm gonna tell you right now. So there's all right,
So she used to come to the rocks He and
hang out. But before that, again, we were at Dancing Teria,
so I saw one of her person person her first
performances there and before she became like Madonna, you know,
before she had a single out. But um, when she
used to hang out at the rocks He, you know

(02:11:54):
a lot. She'd be hanging out with a lot of
my boys who are Latino. And I'm sure Mayor has
some stories because you know, you probably know some of
the people who went to hang out of her. What
was homie dude from all our records that made Jellybean
jelly Bean believe her. That was later a little bit later, Okay, okay,
so yeah, But the thing is is that I wasn't
ever into white girls, but she wasn't. Let's let's be honest.

(02:12:15):
She was. She was kind of in tune with hip
hop early on. Absolutely yeah, for the eight from the eighties. Yeah,
and that's because she met us in danceteria. But I
wasn't into white girls, but a lot of my boys
she used to go and hang out. Nah, fuck that shit.
I was only dating black and Puerto Rican girls back then.
I said, I said, dance for Queen Elizabeth. Oh, Queen Elizabeth. Yeah.

(02:12:39):
So when I was there, when we went to perform
for Queen Elizabeth, I'm over here looking at her like,
you know, I gotta shake her hand. And she had
the jewels around her neck. She smelled like marijuana. Nah,
she had these jewels around her neck. So I'm supposed
to be looking at her in her eyes like you know,
your highness whatever, and I'm like, damn, I want to

(02:13:01):
snatch that ship. Oh my god, he's gonna say that.
I mean again, that's and that's that double life. Did
you know what it meant to for the Queen? Did
you know what it meant to you? Now? You didn't
give it a fun? Wait? Wait wait, wait, this a

(02:13:22):
two part question. Did you know what it meant? Or
did you I didn't know what it meant. Okay, maybe
that's real. You didn't know. I didn't know what it
meant because we grow up. We don't know the president
coming from the hoods. Yeah, you want to meet James Brown,
But she was blah blah, you know, but you know
who she was what she was. Yeah, I didn't give

(02:13:42):
a fuck. Okay, Yeah, it meant nothing to me. I
didn't grow up that way. You know it got to
pick the pick. Oh, this is the pick mcdonna. We
got going back to Madonna. I might ask you again.
You're not gonna carr Madonna back in the day they man,
leave me the fun out of crazy legs. He was outside,
Let me see he was he was outside. It was outside. Yeah,

(02:14:09):
you're right your yeah, but she was cool. She's cool.
I'm not gonna fust she was not a virgin, absolutely
not or the very first time I doubt that guy. Yeah,
and then homegirl Debbie Maze how used to hang out
with us. His brother dated Debbie Maze Hard and that

(02:14:33):
was when she was called Debbie m Right. Yeah, yeah,
I had an amazing time. Man, let me take a
shot for it was fun. Like one time we end up,
we get, I noticed how he was not sticking away
from the shots to stick again. Yeah, I take another drink. Look.
So one time we get, we get invited to go

(02:14:53):
to a recording studio because some recording artists as a
fan of ours and they want to surprise him with
a like in studio performance. And this is like nineteen
eighty two and he's like one of the biggest artists
out there. And uh, we go, then it's fucking David Bowie.
Oh sure, YouTube? Huh no, no, David Bowie. Let's dance,

(02:15:15):
David Bowie, not YouTube? What's it? Who's your YouTube? David?
But it's bad Let's dance? Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah,
So we were having like interesting times like that, meeting
like really bugged out punk rock people. Me, Prince Nah,
I mean Prince Michael Jackson I met when I worked

(02:15:38):
on a bad video. Tell us about that. But you
were on the on the set, Yeah, yeah, I was
in it was it? Who was in that set? Wasn't
all Westley Wesley Night. So I auditioned with Martin Scorsese
for the Wesleys for that part. Really Martin Scorsese didn't
but that I don't know, it's not all relevant. I

(02:16:02):
auditioned for him, and uh, I knew I didn't get
the part immediately because he was just like, yo, you know,
like when you live a little, I think you'd be
a really good actor. And I'm like, he said, live
a little, yeah, like meaning more wisdom, life explie. Yeah. So, um,
Wesley got the part, and I ended up being an

(02:16:23):
extra on the train scene in the long version of
the video, But I got to hang out with him,
take a picture of me and him and with Michael.
You know who Martin Scorsese was. I found out years later,
So I'm like auditioning, not giving a fuck, don't know
who he is and in the job. Yeah, but in

(02:16:44):
that picture you're looking at kadem Hardison is in there too. Yeah, yep,
Kadeem Hardison is right there. So how was Michael? Did
you probably blew up? You interact with Michael one? Huh? Miked?
I felt like my was just going pulled out a bag.
I mean he might tell me that that might. All

(02:17:06):
I did was asking for a photo and an autograph
where you start struck by Michael, to be honest, Yeah, absolutely, yes,
he was Mike back then eighties. Yeah. I mean he's
the biggest pop star in the world. Yeah, and our
film sets there's a certain decorum. You can't really cross
certain lines. And he's not just that one Michael. You
got Michael from the Jackson five, who's already a celebrity,

(02:17:28):
you know what I'm saying. So that's that's real, That's cool,
damn it. Man. We come across some interesting people like
Tina Turner, Gene Kelly, like you're dealt with Tina Turners. Yeah,
tell him. So we were going to perform in Holland
and hell huh Holland. Yeah that space Cakes, Space Cake.

(02:17:49):
I don't remember, so maybe yes, that's Holland, that's Holland.
So yeah, so there's not Hollanddale maybe too. Drking Dragon
coming holiday. I look at him, Sorr. Yeah, No, she
just wanted to meet us. We were all performing on
the same show. And uh, it's kind of like this,

(02:18:11):
the person wants to meet you, and and we're super young,
so we still don't really know who the fuck she
is anyway, back then, did we cares like the message?
I know, it's crazy. We're looking at the back tfo.
We don't give a shit about that, you know. So, yeah,
we met her. That happened with Gene Kelly, like another

(02:18:33):
surprise visit. That's the kiss Gene Kelly. No, that's Gene Simmonds,
all right exactly, Jean Kelly, legendary dancer, tap dancer shit. Yeah,
we um, we lived some ghetto rock star shit. It
was cool. So we didn't kick up back then at all.
You know, we did in terms of what I don't know,

(02:18:53):
I got up means something different. But who's somebody that
that that that told you they was a fan that
she was blown away from. Well, the queen was a fan.
She was an actual fan to my queen Elizabeth. Yeah,
she was a fan of She was actual fan. Really, Yeah,

(02:19:14):
try to break down George. I mean, come on, he
was a fan the comedian No man, Yeah he was
because I saw so they used to have like fan
mail back then, and and uh in the fan mail,
it's like all these questions that the fans asking, then
you fill out each one. So in his answer when

(02:19:35):
he puts music that he bought or who he's into,
he put rock Steady Crew. That's dope. Yeah, makes so
who in hip hop were you a fan of that
you met that you kind of were like fan boyed out.
That's within your own world though, like Cat Grandmaster Haz

(02:19:56):
is my hero, you know, Charlie Chase is also my boy. Uh,
but yeah, I would say grand Master cast because he
represented the battle in every way, so and I you know,
I'm all about the battle. So how old are you
when you first meet him? Fuck? I was a fan
of his and watching from the outside the ropes in

(02:20:17):
seventy seventy I probably saw him seventy seven, seventy eight.
I don't remember when he got into Cold Crush, but
whenever he got in, that's when I became a fan
of his. And so it was home alone too that
you I was an extra. It was an extra. It's
funny too. And that's the same place that used to
rob people. That's what That's what it is. I asked

(02:20:38):
you that earlier. Yeah, I did a little bit. Yeah yeah, yeah, no.
So it's funny because we had a certain name and
I'm not gonna get into it because I get canceled immediately.
I mean, you know what I'm talking about the area
and uh such a part. We had a certain name
for it. But uh yeah, and in eighty two, I

(02:20:59):
think was the highest crime rate of Central Park. And
let's just say I was associated with a lot of
people involved with that and him being one of them. Damn,
come out your court. And the crazy said is that,
you know you at a certain point you had the
Guardian Angels, like we had competations with them. They were

(02:21:21):
confronting Hall. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. We didn't know how
to take that because you know, at that age, you're
thinking like Guardian ages with the yeah, yeah, they're braided. Yeah,
they were ever raised. Yeah, so you know you funked
out all of them was on cocaine as well. Huh
we found out the Guardian age, I wouldn't Yeah, I
want to be surprised. Man. It was just it was
dudes like us who acted like they really knew karate

(02:21:43):
and we believed the ship believed them too. By the way,
right in the train, seeing the Guardian Angels being up
nine to eleven felt safe. I felt safe. I can't
out front on them. Were they necessary evil in that time? Probably?
I wouldn't even say that evil. Man, I know what
I'm saying. Who he was Italian? He was Italian? No sleewa,

(02:22:06):
that he was what's his name? The guards Sleewa? You
know he was like who the dude the main guy? Yeah,
I thought he was Italian sea. I don't know, there's
a documentary. No matter what he was, he wasn't one
of us, Okay, yeah, yeah, And that's when they had

(02:22:27):
like Hector Camacho and all these other dudes doing like
anti graffiti campaigns. Hector Camacho did an anti yes, am
I right, who else anti graffiti campaign? But yeah, but
you look at it, this way the outer world of

(02:22:47):
our existence was paying our own people to campaign against us,
right right the well, New York City, they had a
big campaign against us. Wow, it's kind of like how
Trump took it add out against these brothers from the
same shit good that was. It's horrible. Yeah, So let's

(02:23:10):
talk about uh, Jimmy D and Jimmy Lee, the founders
of the rock Steady Crew. Yeah, then how did they? Um,
how did you meet them to get down with rock Steady?
I mean, so there was this place called mom and
Pop's Disco on Katona Avenue in the Bronx. You love
Katona Avenue. Man, you gotta you gotta buy coltona Aue.
I mean that's why I started. Yeah, you gotta buy
yeah yeah, yeah. So you got an accident on there,

(02:23:32):
that's where you first got You had an accident on
Katona Avenue. And what do you mean, no, no, no,
didn't you fall or something like that? Well, that's where
you made the windmill, because that's why I made you
didn't want to fall? Okay, I'm sorry? Yeah right, So, um,
Jimmy D. I met them at this place ka mom
and Pop's Disco, which was an underground nightclub this dude,
a little angel Puerto Rican Cat used to be the

(02:23:53):
DJ there and it was where a lot of the lot,
a lot of the premiere be boys and be girls
would be with, especially within a lot the community. So
I went there like maybe seventy seven, seventy eight, and
at this time, I'm sorry to cut you off, but
be boy and is probably more important than MCM. And
now everything was dope, everything was on the same, everything

(02:24:13):
was okay, it was a fresh. Yeah, it was all dope,
all fresh because you remember, like Kaz Mellie Mel, all
of them used to be B boys, right, so they
always had a relationship. And when you have people like um,
Jimmy d and Jimmy Lee who are notorious at the
same time, they were going to get that respect no
matter what because they were a threat, you know. So

(02:24:35):
but and these are two fucking dudes that never grew
up to be tall, you know, and but they were
they were s they were fearless. Yeah, they were fearless.
And uh so when I everyone on watch out for
a little guy everyone yeah. So um yeah, as soon

(02:24:55):
as I met them, I was maybe like eleven years old,
and the first thing they did was taking to go
do snatch a purse And it didn't work out, but
that was my introduction the purse snatch. Now it was
fucking desolate and the bronx. There was no one there
to rob, no purses around the hooks at Hunts Point,

(02:25:20):
say tumbleweed and ship because then you help um uh
cleaned up Hunts Point as well. Yes, I became part
of a program. Well, I created a program within the
Point Community Development Corporation because a lot of my boys
had already dropped off, you know, so a lot of
people have been murdered. And I was facing a situation

(02:25:41):
of do I go in deeper and and go all
the way and finish this out, or do I just
walk away and just say fuck it, this ship is dumb.
And I walked away, and I said, Okay, from this
point on, I'm gonna get back to the community. I'm
get use my talent to save the lives of the

(02:26:03):
people who made the same bad decisions that led to
all of my boys' deaths. So I volunteered for three
years at the Point for three days a week, teaching
dance and throwing events and you and bringing these kids
to like wetlands and we take over the club, and
I put the kids at the at the box office.

(02:26:23):
I let them sell the merch, I let them host
a show, I let them run the B Boy battle everything,
and to give them some sort of dignity and pride
and understanding of how to do business. And that was
like the first gentification to hunts Point. Ye back then
everyone knew hunts Point for one thing, and this is
positive gentification. Yeah yeahs he took the hook us out,

(02:26:45):
he started dancing. Yeah. Well, Disney, Well, Disney took the
peep shows out, and he brought in dis nance and
he took the hookers out, and he brought in B
Boy and god damn it. Yeah, here's the whole huts point.
But I'm gonna tell you right now, here's here's a
crazy shit. You do shit like that and you're still

(02:27:07):
like not in tune with your emotions in terms of
like the damage that you've experienced in your life and
how that affects you, you know, and how much of
a ticking time bomb you are fucking tears later on
when you're you're dealing with remorse. So when you have
a brother call you twenty years later and knowing that

(02:27:28):
he lived right around the street or a corner from
a place where there's a line waiting for a crack
housle open every day, just like New Jack City, exactly
like that. So, Um, when they call you twenty years later,
randomly at different times, like yo, you saved my life,
like I'm doing this, this and this now these other

(02:27:49):
people are dead, but you saved my life because I
got down with you, and that should change. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and I'm not. And the crazy thing is that I
was still pulling myself out of some dirt. So the
struggle was again, still living two different lives while trying
to go in the right direction and not fall into like,

(02:28:11):
fuck that motherfucker. We should hurt him, you know, hurt people,
hurt people, hurt people helping people. Yeah. So, and the
thing is is that, you know, again, it goes back
to um, not pulling myself away from people who will
happily do damage. There's a person and I'm not again,
I'm not bringing his name up. He used to run
this area that we're in right now, and not raw again,

(02:28:36):
I am not saying names, but when when that person,
I mean, I was in this area when Zulu and
all these guys were Yeah, so so when that person
heard that somebody was getting sideways with me, that person
was approached and I can't. I can't have that happening.
You know, It's like, yo, might duty like you're gonna

(02:28:58):
get me some conspiracy charge here? What are you fucking doing? Right? So, yeah,
it's good to have the ride of dies, but sometimes
you gotta walk away from that ship because it'll it'll
kill you. Right, So let me ask you if I
don't ask you this question about to ask you, you
know about thirty years maybe forty years ago, probably understand

(02:29:19):
exactly what you're gonna say, right, but I'm gonna ask
you to it right now. If you woke up today,
right and you had all the hip hop history erased
and we're just based in Europe from what you heard
from twenty twenty three on how much of the original

(02:29:40):
DNA of hip hop still exists right now me and
depends on which that action you look at it? Yeah,
that is the truth. Yeah, Okay, so you just pick
wishes direction and you want to go. Hip hop is divided. Uh, Yeah,
of the industry that thinks it's hip hop, but doing

(02:30:04):
an element of hip hop could care less about the
rest and then you have a lot of self righteous
hip hop heads and we it would be nice if
we met in the middle somewhere. Okay, self righteous hip
hop answer? Who? Meaning that anything that this group over
here does that's into the industry is horrible because the
com it's commercial. Like I listened to modern shit, you

(02:30:27):
know what I mean. I'm not trying to look at
some new ship as it's not hip hop because it's
not from my time? Are you with a little busy?
I fuck with all that he breaks it to. He's
a b one too. It's like crazy, like I was
supposed to be in one of his videos and you
a little together? Yeah one day, one day. He's a

(02:30:47):
good brother. But go ahead. But um, I think it's there.
But I think it's it's divided in a big way, right,
and I think that that is bad for our community
because that's why you have this whole other thing of
uh Latino where the Latinos there are not And it's like, yeah,
because you divided the elements, you divided the community. And

(02:31:12):
what's happened is that hip hop is a commodity that
is only traded in rap music and then the art,
the b boys, the DJs, they take it seriously. In
terms of turntableism, they've all been splintered. We can't point
where they don't even hip hop. I can't be mass

(02:31:32):
produced like a record, so I can't make as much
right right, So there's a big difference. I don't get
royalties off of something unless it's a film that I've
been in. You get royalties every time your record is played,
So there's a big difference. And think about and think
about let's let's think about the if you want to
put it in a conspiracy, who benefits off of the

(02:31:53):
splinter the The industry that that monetizes the music cannot
monetize these other elements. So they said, okay, boom, we
shed that this is hip hop. But you know what's crazy,
I brung it up earlier. How much Europe to me
respects hip hop more If you actually think about it.

(02:32:13):
In Europe, the B boy and the DJ is on
the same level as the MC. Yeah they are, but
it's on the same level, and that's how to me. No,
but it's changing, it's changing. It's they're they're changing with
us too as well. So you meaning that the MC
is becoming No, no, they're they're becoming more Americanized in
their view of hip hop. Well, I haven't seen you.

(02:32:34):
I haven't been. It's gone with damn, I know, trying
to get a bag because I don't think it's nothing
wrong with getting the bag. I no, but we still
have the integrity list and that's the problem thing. So
I've been doing these documentaries where I've traveled to different
countries trying to find hip hop, well, exploring the country

(02:32:56):
through hip hop, through the scope of hip hop, and
every single country, the same thing has been told to me.
You guys don't do hip hop anymore. You do business.
You are not you. We don't, We do not look
to you anymore. Now, these places that used to look

(02:33:16):
to themselves as the innovators, as the pioneers, they look
to themselves and there and their neighbors. Like I went
to Vietnam, Vietnam looks to Korean Japan and to themselves.
I went to Colombia. Columbia by itself. Is it's like
hip hop hip hop? Diego was there too. I think

(02:33:38):
the message in hip hop no longer exists from our
perspective over here, right fuck, you know, like where's the messaging?
But we still got to what what sucks is that
hip hop is the number one cultural export of the
United States to the world, and the United States and
ourselves do not identify that and make sense of it

(02:33:59):
to and make make it a thing that we could
either monetize or politicize or make it a political thing.
We just don't use. And the fact that breaking comes
from the fucking backyard of the United States and not
one of them has been sponsored who are going to
the Olympics by anything in the United States shows how

(02:34:19):
much regard they have for us. All Right, yeah, we're assholes.
Well we're fucking shit up. Well, you know what, Um,
We've been talking about this hip hop union for a
long time, right, me and E F n Um. When
we saw this show, it was like, Yo, I forget

(02:34:40):
who was sick in hip hop? And it was like,
wait a minute, the bills wasn't paid or something like that,
and we were like, yo, hip hop needs a union.
There's no way you can put in twenty thirty years
of work, in your case, forty five years of work
and then you get sick and it should be on
your family, Like it was only your family to miss,

(02:35:03):
you know, Christmas When you was performing in France, there
was only your family to miss Thanksgiving when you're performing
in Russia, Like why should your family beer? Why? What
shouldn't we have a union. It would be nice, but
until that, no one trusts, no one. I just have
to operate as you know, I operate as if no
one owes me anything, and I got to handle my shit.

(02:35:25):
I'm responsible for my own relevance and my own finances
and and how I take care of my own medical
and if there's something comes where there's a fund for
people like myself who are pioneers, like if I'm well
off at the moment, I probably wouldn't accept it because
there's probably yeah, but no, No. The thing about it is,

(02:35:47):
especially you know, um with how we're kind of owning
our own stuff now like we're actually in the era,
and especially with a podcast, you know, yeah, I would love,
you know, you know, to stop talking about it. And
I would love to like, you know, Joe Budden, well,
Chuck D. You know, Chuck D. He's created something I

(02:36:08):
don't know. Well, let's dare do it. Joe Buden, mallon
dollars worth of a game, Gillian Willow, you know, Nori
and efn uh I think we should put up a
couple of dollars and just put it in a pot
with it's it's see through, put it in Killer Mike's bank.
I trust Killer Mike, and I trust this bank, and

(02:36:32):
just lead that ship there until. Not to say that
we want something catastrophic to happen, but if something happens,
if if, if a little something if. But that's not
the way it works, man, No, we gotta make it up. No,
it's not the way it works, Chuck D. I think
it's kariss ones involved. They got the government involved. You

(02:36:53):
need bigger funds to really make a difference. You can't.
We can't take a couple of podcasts and put a
couple of dollars in Well, we fucking need the dollars ourselves.
But we can still empower each other. That's it. That's
what I'm saying. That's like empowering some some people who
are representing the United States on the highest level ever.
Get them six hundred gs or if you could raise

(02:37:13):
funds that's what they have. But here's the thing, right,
a lot of us don't know, don't understand how do
we do that? Right? Okay? Cool, you said, Chuck D.
Has an idea. So they did it. They did okay,
alright investing, and I feel like we should do something right,
and this is something that I just learned. Right. I

(02:37:34):
went to Opus one right, and Opus one I thought
I knew, which is a great wine. It's a great wine. Right.
So I went to the factory right, and I really
thought I knew everything about wine. Right, And he gave
me the two thousand and eighteen. He gave me the
two thousand and sixteen, gave me the two thou and
then no, I did not, but you're you're correct. I

(02:37:55):
heard the ninety six. It is fantastic. He didn't have right,
but I went through it all and I loved him all.
And then he brung me what was later considered the throwaway.
All drink it and we all said this is our favorite, right,
and he said, you know why, it's because that's exactly

(02:38:17):
what it is. It's what you want it to be.
Sometimes we can sit around and just sit around and say,
let's wait for it to be perfect, and let's wait
for al Shopton to come over there and do some
jump ropes with us, and then you know, do it.
And then sometimes it's just like, let's just do the
right thing do. The right thing is let's just just
whatever whatever, and if anything happens, because that's really take

(02:38:38):
it as far as you can take. That's really what
insurance is. It's just in case shit happened, right, So
just so let's just throw whatever whatever. Maybe we're not
gonna do it the right way. Maybe we're not, But
the fact is I will feel fucking awesome knowing that
a hip hop legend caught a stroke, and for us
as podcasters, we stepped up and said his family bills

(02:39:00):
taking care of that ship. I wouldn't yesterday. I couldn't
sleep at night. That wouldn't make me sleep at night
like that. But let me let me tell you this.
This is you helping yourself. Let me rebuttal you this. However,
me help myself. I don't plan. Let me let me
let me give you a rebuttal Okay. If Chuck D,
who I trust, has always had the best interest of
hip hop in his heart, if he's leading, he ain't

(02:39:23):
come to drink jams. No, but Chuck D ain't reach
out back. You know something wrong. He should have been here.
Chuck ddun did wipe me crazy since we reached out,
he said, he does not do interviews, and all of
a sudden he's been doing every other and okay, that's

(02:39:44):
your so let me let me feed us. Okay. So
if he's doing something him and there's a coalition of
people involved and they they're doing it the right way,
my thing is, let's contribute to what they're doing. Because
if why they contribute. He's been saying this for seven years,
hold up the splintering of it everything. People to do this,

(02:40:06):
and graph writers do this. Okay, you know what you
do that, Chuck D. Podcasters do this. Fuck it. We're
all gonna do it different because it's gonna make me
feel better. No, bro, contribute to the movement that it's
gonna do it right the organizations. Because we've been speaking
this for seven years, and I've been watching and I've
been watching the fans for seven years. Tag this man
on Twitter, follow him on Twitter, Chuck D and every

(02:40:28):
one of these other people, And guess what, none of
them have ever hit me on DM. None of them
have ever pursued that. So I'm tired of waiting for
our forefathers, our near fathers, with their both fathers. Why
did they reach out? You mean to tell me you
mean to tell me, hold on, let's be clear out
to us to do it. Let's be clear. No, no,
why did they reach out for us to be a
part of it? You mean to tell me every time

(02:40:49):
they say something or every time something like that with
a hip hop union is it's brung up. I love
our fans on Twitter because you know what they say,
don't You've never been saying this for seven new years,
for seven years, for seven years, and I'm not willing
to talk about it no more. I'm willing to put
the same way I'm willing to invest into Drunken Dragon

(02:41:09):
a Hollander, which I'm doing the same way. I'm willing
to invest in fox Hole, which I'm doing the same way.
I'm willing to put up a couple of such and such,
just a hav An account just in case if Maxwell
fall and break his ankle. Let's help about maybe something. Well,
I'm sucking around. Here's the thing, here's the thing himself.

(02:41:30):
For me as a dancer, there are times when I've
had insurance and I didn't have insurance right, so whatever
I had in the bank went towards my surgery. Right.
So with an hour name. As dancers, we get fucked
up the most, Yes, and we're all taking care of ourselves.
Like I've come out of pocket so much money for

(02:41:51):
the ship that I do just for the love of
hip hop. Right, So there's a lot of people out
there who are representing and I think that's probably like
the most injuries you know for dance, you know in
hip hop, but funerals, God bless us, the hip hop
funerals that you go start to see and you'd be like, damn,
the shit is not taken care of. That shit is

(02:42:13):
like like, that's I mean, and I don't I had
a rebuttal with you. I don't want you to say
that I'm disagreement and I'm disagreeing d what he's doing.
The problem is we're so available, we're so out there,
and our platform actually exists. Our platform actually exists where
weekly guess what. Your platform is a force and you

(02:42:35):
guess what. Guess what, Chuck and whoever who else is
doing it. Maybe and Chick is a fan of the platform.
Maybe he said he's willing to maybe care us, but
maybe y'all, Maybe y'all didn't want to come here, but
at least let's promote y'all platform on this platform because
this is what it's made for. It's made for us,
because I guess, I guess what. Go ahead and try
to go to Hot ninety seven. Now they got ninety
four seven. It beat let's pick up? Uh, Psyche sounds

(02:43:01):
like the founds, Miss Jones. I think mister c is
over there and there. Actually this is another station besides
Rock the Bells. And I love Rock the Bells, but
Rock the Bells cannot say that they did not base
what we were doing awful and we were giving all
legends their flowers. I think we're still are giving. Really,

(02:43:21):
I'm actually an equity owner of Rock the Bells. No,
they did it, reached out to several of us, and
they did give us equity in the company. Beautiful. Uh
so I gotta salute the beautiful doing great things. Yeah, yeah,

(02:43:42):
I got nothing. I would never have anything bad to
say about. Okay, care, rest One and Cares have launched
the union. All right, cool, I'm mad. Why are you mad?
Because they should hill at y'all because no, no, I'm saying,
I understand, but you can't get playing. But I'm not playing.
The thing about it is, we can't be outdated like
we can't be sitting around and do something that was

(02:44:05):
brought up publicly on this show for seven strong years.
But we live in an era where nobody even sees everything. Yes,
but there's someone in his camp, just like George Clinton
just came here, just Clinton, ain't I could tell he
never saw an episode of Drink Champs his fucking lights,
and I loved him anyway. But his grandchildren said, this
is the place where you posted be true. So you

(02:44:26):
mean to tell me that once they set up that campaign,
they ain't No, it wasn't no one who said Drink
Chace were saying this ship for seven years. They've been trying,
They've been waiting. But but but maybe they've been saying
it for seventeen years. Wen't hear it. I ain't hearing that.
It's every one of the albums. I'm just saying I
got everyone albums. We don't got everyone of them. I
ain't hear we don't know, we don't know. You gotta

(02:44:48):
give the benefit. I don't know why he said the
black but I want me but simple support that. I'm
not saying I don't support it. I'm saying I have
no control over that. I have nothing, I have no
information of that. Cool. You know our engineer just sent
that to us. Um, this should be front page news.

(02:45:13):
It's it's probably the problem is it's not from page news.
Guess what ours? But guess what it's the media. Guess what, sir,
case I don't know that every time we drop we're
fromt page news. Yes, we're from page well cardist. If
we want it, and sometimes we don't even want it,
we're doing it. Definitely. It's a lot of times like

(02:45:34):
that you say it can do and I'm standing y'all
it there's a lot of times we don't want front
spay news. But this is something and that's what we
care about the community. We care about hit But this, this,
this is, this is what we have to do. It
can't like like you said, it can't be a care
arrest one Chuck d thing, uh and a crazy leg

(02:45:56):
stay rock steady thing and then a drink Champs thing.
Oh okay, cool, maybe it's not a drink Champ thing.
We all need to we say podcasting, we'll handle it
all part because we couldn't handle it because absolutely, if
we could have, we would have did it seven years ago.
So let's just do to the people we know that
uh uh, Joe Button is happy from it's from doing

(02:46:17):
what he's doing. We know that a million dollars worth
a game. These are people that we can come and
talk to and say, listen, let's just maybe it's a
podcast fund. Maybe Chuck d in them is the Jerry
Lewis telling it's the rap and then and then. But
the thing is sitting around and doing nothing and sitting around,
just sitting around and sitting around and sitting around. It

(02:46:37):
makes us seem like we're just talking. But I don't
want to talk to the people doing sometimes I don't
want to see if we can fit in. If we can't,
then we don't. At the end of the day, we
don't feel starts out the needs. You raise the funds
and you put that into and I agree with you.
Said you said raise the funds. That's also that's also
what we're doing. And not only that. We want to

(02:46:57):
give back said it should be something like that, But
we give back so much beautiful things that we obtain.
And it's not the yst about financials and riches. It's
about okay, man, yeah, look at that ship. Look at
the look that's George Clinton artwork. He did that right.
He came George. That's all. I got a George Clinton story.

(02:47:20):
But I can't say this. What's the other artist's name?
I want to give him Jonas? Yeah, with George Clinton,
they both did. Let's give us that George Clinton story.
Let's go. It's acid involved that I'm thinking about. It
was he opened about shit like that. Yeah, that's open.

(02:47:42):
So it was like a zoo anniversary and I'm over here, like,
you know, I'm thinking, you know, nothing but the dog
and me is in the back, you know what I'm like.
And then all of a sudden, like I'm taking him
to uh, I had to drop off at his hotel
as a favor, and he just started like you up
a little packet in the bag. And I hear, Yo,

(02:48:05):
this motherfucker's wild in my car right now. Ain't nothing
but the dog. Yeah, yeah, you were like, I could
have sold it to him, all stuck him up. I
never sold that though, balls. No, I bought something to
oh yeah to my memory is good? You that like hustle.

(02:48:33):
I wasn't a dealer, my boy. Oh my god, yo, man,
razy legs man, let me just tell you something. Your
legend of a leg abolutely um we we we We
clearly made this show for people like you, Um, hip
hop fifty. I know you kind of said you didn't
agree with hip hop being fifty. You said forty seven,
but I'll stand with it. You're standing with it, will

(02:48:55):
stand with it, stand with it. And in your opinion,
you said forty seven, forty eight, forty eight, forty which
is two years off and that's you know, we're pretty
much all Druggs. Yeah, so it's like, goody two years.
You might have crap because the aid you never know,
but that was because two year years for the ecstasy.
It's like it's gone. But we want you to know

(02:49:18):
your legend hip hop owes you uh, and not just
be boying you know, because um, you know it's crazy,
like you look at these records. Now, these records have
a dance to go with the record. Yeah, yes, dance
is still there. But for me, I've always felt like
I'm hip hoppy for I'm a B boy because when

(02:49:41):
I got into the game, I saw I witness everything
happening without any kind of label over it. It was
just what was happening, like a girl doing double ditch.
You lived it, you know, it was you were it yeah.
So for me, I'm always hip, hoppy form a B
B boy, But we want to show you love. There's

(02:50:01):
anything you regret before you got out there? Um not
finishing school old shit, definitely da I was on that path.
I ended up in Hunter College, and I used to
know the Hunter College is on sixties seventh Street. And
you never went to the Bronx Yeah, no, I'm talking

(02:50:22):
about college. No, well, I did go to Bronx Community
for a minute. Then I switched to Hunter College and
then um me and this dude, um am I forget
his name, God not to rock the other one that
hates him, Ben Diesel. We used to go to Hunter
College together. We used to hang out. Yeah, we used
to you have been dies went to school together. Yeah college.

(02:50:45):
Did you almost forget you went to fucking college with Diesel?
Did you almost forget that? Yeah? Your life is dope.
Make some noise for that. But he used to be
a B boy. He was a B boy first. Yeah,
he told be boy first what he needed to come
to dreams? What has he been or these at the
time he was Ben. Yeah, he was just oh, come on, bro,

(02:51:13):
let's lead. So we used to hang out in in
a cafeteria Hunter College and try to pick up on
a girl's playing space from New York. Yeah, oh I
didn't know that, but yeah, I mean, you know, hopefully
all this stuff in detail. We all working on a

(02:51:36):
couple of films right now, me and Fat Joe and
E Frivera working on a Latino contribution in hip hop documentary. Um,
you know more more you guys can get dream Champs
involved in. Yeah, of course. I mean we want to
definitely do it as something that's educational. We don't want
to cause more divide, just provide data. Yeah, we want

(02:51:57):
to provide data for people and say yo boom. If
you're not sure this is where and when and now,
if you want to be an asshole, that's up to you,
you know. And so there's that, and then we're doing
the rock Steady documentary right now, which is all going
to be from my perspective, and then there's a few

(02:52:21):
other things on the table. We'll see what happens as
synonymous with Zulu is it no one, No, not at all.
We're all own thing, okay, yeah yeah, so yeah, so
there's a lot of good shit, you know. For me,
it's about my festival in Puerto Rico working on these
films and then um a lot of relief work, but

(02:52:42):
expanding beyond Puerto Rico because with all the shit that
that just happened in Turkey, I felt like, wow, I
know how to bring people, you know, the opportunity to
have clean water. I know what that takes. But you know,
then you need to start needing more financial resources to
make that happen. You've seen the dude and I've mentioned
and I'm sorry I don't know the guy's name right now,

(02:53:02):
and I mentioned him before. He has the machine that
extracts air yeah into clear water from the United States.
Like that, dude is incredible. We did I mean we man,
we did ship and he's donating his machines to Tesla
Costa was donating a bunch of shit too, Eli, Yeah,
he donated you know. Yeah, so they during Hurricane Maria days,

(02:53:30):
there's just one community that we went to where their
their source of water was like two three hundred feet
down and there was this really old nineteen seventy three
a diesel generator that the US government dropped off during
the hurricane like here, figure it out. And Tesla donated
these batteries that would generate the water three hundred feet

(02:53:51):
up to a community of eight hundred families. Yeah, yeah,
wow we helped. Yeah, well, Eli doing his thing or
is all right? Yeah, all right with the y'aller he
let me go crazy on Twitter, wild boy, I'm just
playing man, yo, crazy legs. Man, I'm gonna be honest. Man,

(02:54:12):
you rock steady. You know, all the things that you
contributed to hip hop will be remorse to not you know,
always throw flowers that you can, always you know, respect
what you're doing. I'd like, you know, I enjoy this
when I when I get the pioneers, when I get
the legends, when I get the icons, and I just
explore their history. Like I said, for a month, I've

(02:54:32):
just been walking around like you, like I don't know.
That's why my big boy, you see, my big boy
he fell because we were thinking about you know what
I mean, Like man, be boying me learning be boying
and break dancing. It's two different things. Be learning that
break dancing is actually frowned upon word. And yes it's

(02:54:55):
frowned upon. But now you know, but it's crazy me
even learning that. But breaking it is not right? Are
you saying breakdance? It's kind of like when you say
south Side, you just say south Side. You don't say, yeah,
we're gonna go saus dancing. So um man, we just
want to tell you man, our show was based on,
you know, giving legends. And you know, people that's been

(02:55:18):
in this game for more than ten years, they flowers
because you know, they's just face it. Hip hop is
the only age is M music yea, there is yeah
Pink Floyd and you know all these other people can
go you know as why I said Gene Simmons earlier
to do with the tongue, right, you know what I mean?

(02:55:38):
Like people don't even know he's old because he hadn't
make up his old face, so goddamn time and he
can go and go all and he can do this
and no one says he's washed up. But they don't
have elements either. And that's the difference between hip hop
as well. Yeah, well we gotta they're just music and drugs.
We got everything. We gotta. We gotta figure the fuck
out because the last time I checked, you know, if

(02:56:01):
you take a good meal and you season it correctly
and you put it in there the fridge, you get
it out three days later and you take that out
well marinated. Good. But you know what you're thinking about that?
You know what that's called seasoned. Yeah, that's what the
technically hip hop if it's if hip hop is about

(02:56:23):
fifty years old, it's just realizing its own wisdom. It's
the double seeking in I think. I think if it
were a human being at fifty, you know, a lot
of us are coming to terms our own remorse, regrets,
all kinds of ship. And at fifty years old, you're
still busting nuts. Holla. The individual can come up with

(02:56:46):
those things. But when you've been hijacked by corporations, yeah,
it's a whole other mixed beans. Enough of us are
still alive to make shit right, you know, or at
least planted seeds. We may not see it, or at
least I mean, we can't do it for the sake
of seeing it in our lifetime, because that's unrealistic, you know.
So we have to just plant the seeds and hopefully

(02:57:08):
that ship works into something for somebody else later on.
I think it will. I'm good with that. I think
we're doing it. Ain't about me, ain't about us. I
like the back of it works, yo, man, Thank so,
thank you appreciate that there. Thank you for I'm not

(02:57:29):
gonna stop drinking. I'm gonna keep going and do some
drops and then be good. I'll be over the holy shit.
Yeah go to the back. Yeah yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Great episode. Drink Champs is a Drink Champs LLC production
and association with Interval Presents. Hosts and executive producers n

(02:57:53):
O r E and dj e FN from Interval Presents
executive producers Alan Coy and Jake Kleinberg. Listen to Drink
Champs on Apple Podcast, Amazon Music, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Thanks for joining us for another
episode of Drink Champs, hosted by Yours Truly, dj e

(02:58:14):
FN and n O r E. Please make sure to
follow us on all our socials. Let's at drink Champs
across all platforms at the Real Noriagon, ig at Noriagon
on Twitter, mine is at Who's Crazy on ig at
dj e FN on Twitter, and most importantly, stay up
to date with the latest releases, news, and merch by
going to drink Champs dot com

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

DJ EFN

N.O.R.E

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 354 w/ Crazy Legs