September 14, 2025 • 24 mins
This week, hosts Amit Kamath and Mihir Vasavada are joined by Sandip G, The Indian Express' man on ground in Dubai, covering the Asia Cup. They talk about the India vs Pakistan tie and the calls to cut off the sporting ties. In Dubai, Sandip says there's very little buzz on the eve of the match in which India start as favourites.
Produced by Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Produced by Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time and this is the day when India will
play Pakistan in the Asia Cup T twenty. I think
one of the first of the three possible matches between
the two teams. With a lot of questions over whether
India should have actually played this match at all. There
is a whole lot of noise and chatter around this match.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
They might not be an edge on field.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
The rivalry, as everyone's been writing and saying, the rivalry
between the two teams might not be what it was
it ten years ago with India now head and shoulders
about Pakistan, but chatter around it has added kind of
an edge to this match, which, let's be honest, ahmiit
adds some kind of context to the Asia Cup, which
(00:52):
has so far been pretty dull.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Me I have a theory that they only conduct the
Isha Cup to have India Pakistan matches.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I don't know what is the.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Point of Asia Cup anyway, but love, I know that
the top teams in the world kind of come from Asia,
like some of them at least, but still Asia Cup
is like, this is a cold idea just to have
India Pakistan play as many times as possible without it
sounding like India is playing Pakistan in like a proper
bilateral and it's like not even subtle, right, they just
(01:23):
put India Pakistan in the same group. I think that
it's one of the only sports where they basically manipulated
by saying that I love it doesn't matter what you
guys think. We know that this is where the money
is made and we are going to make sure that
we make as much money as we can, as many
times as we can, which is why I mean, you
spoke about the complexities and the politics. Mayor We'll get
(01:45):
to at some point during the podcast, but it's kind
of hilarious to me. At some point, I think guys
like Herbert and saying Ura saying must be sitting at
home right now wondering here. The Indian cricket team, the
actual Indian cricket team is going to play.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
The actual Pakistan Cricket League.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And just a few months back, we kind of boycotted
playing the Pakistan champions in the way only, and I
mean we took a stand on moral grounds because the
Pelgram terror attack had happened and we wanted to do
it in solidarity with the country, which is all fair.
I mean, sure the cricketers want, like you know, cricket
(02:23):
to be used as a vehicle to make a political stance, Sure,
go for it. But then you have the main team
actually playing a cricket game, and as you pointed out,
it probably will be not just one game, it will
probably be multiple times.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They will probably face each other in the knockout stages again.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Or maybe they'll just meet in whatever contrived format they
have for this tournament, right, and.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Then they will probably also possibly meet in the final.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, And I think that's the whole point that's bothering
so many people, right, I mean, let's just get dive
head on this issue of whether India should be playing this.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Match at all.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
To be honest, I don't know what the right answer
to this is, and in my eyes there is no
wrong answer as well from both points of view. But
at some level I feel that I think BCC has
not been totally honest. This isn't about the fact that
you are in a multi nation tournament and you have
to play them. If BCC I wanted, they could have
(03:24):
flexed their muscles like they have so many times in
the past. The question is should they should? Then sport
become a victim of everything else that's happening in the world,
and where do you stop. There has been a clear
cut stand taken by the Indian government of not to
play Pakistan in bilateral series. Then there are exceptions made
to give Pakistani teams and players visas to even enter
(03:46):
India for events that have multiple nations. I mean, most
recently we saw for the Asha Cup Hockey in Rajki,
the Pakistan team was given the visa but they chose
not to come citing security reasons, and Similarlyakistani teams will
be coming for the Junior Hockey World Cup later this
year as well, So it's not like the country has
completely cut off sporting relationship with Pakistan. The point though,
(04:10):
is I feel it's a thing of convenience on it,
and people keep talking about a lot of money riding
on India Pakistan matches. Of course there is, but it's
like more money than already. It's not like the survival
of cricket depends on India Pakistan the money it generates.
So I think a convenience on the argument that you know,
India should play Pakistan, I mean, either you cut off completely,
(04:32):
or you don't and you don't play, or you just like,
you know, play everywhere. I completely confused with the stand
the Pakistan team Indiani ask that the India team Pakistani
as them but her neutral venues PI hailing it, or
we team started Tomshad like this Kaling. It's just too
confusing and it's just non committal on the whole issue.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
It sounds like a very non monogamous relationship in a
sense ethically non monogamous.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Or if I may, I guess yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Think you spoke about the duality of stands right, the
paradox of not playing a team in bilaterals but then
saying we can always play in like multiple country while
the tournaments say we.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Can play there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I also want to point out that India head coach
Gotham gambiir the Paldom attack happened on April twenty two
in Kashmir when twenty six people were killed in the
terror attack, and right after that, sometime in May when Gotham.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Gambiro was asked, you know what do you think about.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
India playing Pakistan and his exact answer was, my personal
answer to this is absolutely no. Till all this by
Vichy meant terrorism doesn't stop. There should not be anything
between India and Pakistan, right, And that same guy over
this weekend, he's going to be leading his troops out
in a sense to battle, and I'm pretty sure that
(05:48):
he'll probably give it some sort of angle and say
that you know this, we looked at this as trying
to get Butler for whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But yeah, it's very tricky.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Consistencies a little absent, like we can't spot consistency anywhere,
you know, and mere For the record, India has not
played like a bilateral series with Pakistan since January twenty thirteen,
in fact, which what it's twelve years since we last
played Pakistan in a tournament. They've consistently played each other
(06:19):
in other tournaments like we've played recently at the Champions Sophie,
the World Cups happened there. They play against each other
things like that. But bilateral series that's where we drow online.
I guess one of the reasons they keep giving is
that when you have bilateral series, the money that is
raised that goes to directly the boards, right, whereas when
you play in like multi country events, the money kind
(06:42):
of gets split between all of them. So the profit
that every federation or every board makes is slightly less,
which again I mean, if you want to cut off
the profits, you cut it off completely. I mean, this
is a little bit of a skewed argument. I'm very
curious what do you think about the whole politics of
it In a sense we've spoken about the complex at least,
(07:03):
but what do you think about the politics of it all?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, the politics of it all is what puzzles me,
you know, And before you know I answer this question.
I think it's also the right time to hear from
Sandy g who's in the by covering Graytia Cup for us.
He couldn't join us directly for the podcast, but he
did send a few voice notes and we asked him about,
you know, this whole issue and whether the Indian team
(07:27):
has been affected or whether this chatter has kind of,
you know, breached the wall that is covering the Indi team,
that spenses them from the outside world and the tournament
kind of focus that is there. So here's what Sandip
had to say about it.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, players and coaches have been asked this question, but
you know, they have a usual deflected that question away.
There is buzzing a certain section of Indian media that
you know, we shouldn't be playing, and we shouldn't be
whether we write or not. But the players are not
bothered and the support stuff are not brotheredting history said that, like,
I mean, what over the government says we'll do that.
I mean, there's no unnecessary fractiousness about this contest unless
(08:04):
it's needless edge about the contest. I mean, and in
this team is spading in both of the teams sign
of you are you also said the same thing like me,
You know, we're not bother about what's happening. They're about
the geopolitical tensions or diplomatic worries.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
US these days don't divel too much from that.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Even otherwise, even other ways outside you know, there's hardly
any apparent animosity between people of these two nations.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
So I think even the stance will be the same.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
You know, for all the rivalry of the field, you
know what I mean, in the stands modelists, we're always
peaceful whenever Indian Pakistan have played, and like for example,
when Pakistan and Afkanisan plays, it's or seen Streeland and
bundleds playing.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
You've heard about crowds clash, fans clashing with each other
and all those.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Stuff, But India Pakistan match them in generally peaceful, when
fans of both sides have sat next to each other
and enjoyed the game, appreciated each other, hugged and exchange pleasantries.
I mean, it's always been harmonious and I think it
would be the same on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, so I'm a that's some deep and what he
sensed from on ground following the Indian team at the
Asia Cup in Dubai, And you asked me about the
politics of it, and the politics of it is what
kind of gnawing at some level? Right, There are so
many teams across sports, Indian and Pakistani teams, I mean
(09:17):
that play each other. We know that last year the
tennis team, Indian tennis team went to Pakistan and played
a Devis Cup tie over there. The bridge players have
traveled to Pakistan so many times and they've played there.
India and Pakistan's hockey teams over the years have played
each other, not in bilateral but in tournaments. So you know,
there has always been an increased chatter when it comes
(09:39):
to the politics of it. When the cricket teams play
because cricket gets more eyeballs. So that's not a secret
I think anymore, and that's quite obvious with the way
this whole thing is going. The only time I thought
was an exception to this was when the government cleared
visas for the Pakistani hockey team to come to India
for the Asha Cup, which concluded last week in be Hard.
(10:01):
There was a lot of anger to that decision, and
Pakistan I think sensed that reaction and they chose not
to come. That's my reading of the situation. So I
think the sentiment post Pehelgam terror attacks has kind of
changed and there is this demand I think is the
right world. I don't know if that's the right word,
but well, there is this at least a call that
(10:22):
India should not play Pakistan in any sport. Whether it's feasible,
we don't know. I mean, we've seen another sport submit
how that works out right. I mean Iran and Israel,
for example, they never play each other wherever it may be.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Even at the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We've seen so many occasions where the teams from Iran
and Israel, or athletes individually, they don't play each other.
Iranian athletes invariably end up giving a bye or just
forfeiting the match when they're playing against any Israeli opponents.
So in that case, is the willainness to kind of
isolate Pakistan on not play Pakistan a sporting field that's
(10:56):
strong that India is willing to forfeit any match if
it is a World Cup semi final or final. That
is the question I think, which will require a lot
of debate and that will also test the actual sentiment
of the people.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
What do you think, Mirah? Because you've covered Olympics for
so long, I wanted to ask you this. You know,
when an Indian team, let's say, an Indian government does
not allow a Pakistani team to come to India, Let's say,
for any event like the Ashia Cup that happened in.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
India in Rasgi.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
If the Pakistani team had said that no, no, we
want to come and India had not allowed them to
come at prohibited them, how much of an effect would
that have had when India went and tried to bid
for the Olympics in twenty thirty six or the Commonwealth
Games let's say in twenty thirty will that kind of
have a bearing on these IOCs and the Commonwealth Games
(11:48):
federations deciding whether to give India the Olympics or the
Commonwealth Games. Events like that that, you know, see, these
events are something now the movie government has very clearly
said that that is a priority in terms of sport
going into the next decade in a sense, So how
does that kind of work out if the Indian government
(12:08):
decides not to allow any Pakistani team to enter for
any sport.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So that has been categorically ruled out. The government has
pretty much said that for multi nation events they will
be issuing visas to Pakistani athletes, not for bilateral series.
The Bilotal series are off the table. And they've precisely
cited the reason which you have said, which is the
bid for the twenty thirty six Olympics. The Cornell Games
are relatively a smaller thing compared to the whole Olympic ambition.
(12:34):
And there have been instances in the past where India
has been punished for this. If you remember after the
Balacote strikes twenty nineteen incident, you know, where India and
Pakistan were again close to a war or they were
involved in clashes. The Indian government did not issue visas
to a Pakistani shooting team which was supposed to travel
to Delhi for a World Cup, and that led to
(12:57):
India's suspension at an Olympic level. Massive threat of a
was issued by the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, saying
that India violated this clause in the Olympic Charter. The
charter is this rule book which guides how international sport
ideally should be run, and India were found guilty of
violating that that rule, and the IOC demanded that Indian
government given writing that this won't happen in future, which
(13:20):
the government did back then in twenty nineteen. So the
government also is bound by the principles that govern international
sport and they just can't arbitrarily say no to a
country from entering their borders because of the political issues there.
So that is of course an issue which so far
the government has said that multi nation they'll allow Pakistan.
(13:43):
But although when we talk about cricket, there is again
an exception to the rule because the Women's World Cup
which starts later this month, India and Pakistan will be
playing on neutral territories and not in India, which is
the host of that World Cup. But I mean, you know,
moving on. I think the other issu you over a year,
and it's something that I'll be watching with a very
(14:04):
keen eye, is when the teams eventually take the field
on Sunday night or on the subsequent days in the
next week or ten days, I think the players also
will be under a lot of pressure, not to win
or anything, but just with the fear that if the
slightest of actions will be kind of scrutinied or magnified
(14:24):
on social media or TV channels and blown out of proportion.
I think that factor might also very heavily weigh on
the players' minds.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Before we get into our own views on what it
will be like. I think it's the right time to
probably get in Sunday g who has explained what this
mood is like on the ground in Dubai right now
as the world kind of and Dubai itself kind of
braces itself for an India Pakistan encounter, and usually India
(14:53):
Pakistan clash is like.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
A tempest of emotions.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
There is a lot of your broadcasters usually kind of
build up these clashes with the whole whatever the milk, Yeah, right,
it's marketed in a certain way also, but right now,
maybe it's seeming a little tempered down, so I think
Salibri will be able to tell us what it feels
like on the ground.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
In the Unlike the Dubai heat, the excitement has been
slow burning with the India Pakistan game. It's the city's
characteristic also the city is it is sol less and
pragmatic in that way, not tuned to sports, not clutched
by sports. Unlike for example, Charja, which had a lot
of laborers from Pakistan and India and Bangladesh staying there,
Dubai is a different city, so it doesn't show an
(15:39):
outdoored enthusiasm for the game. So has hardly been any
bus in the city as such, except for the PBu
asks them like I mean about the rivalry and all
those stuff. Other than that, there's no outpower of excitement
or bus. You know, the city that moves along in
its space, in its pragmatic pace. But the crowd will
invariably come on a Sunday, the stadium.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Will be packed. You know, a lot of people will be.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Coming from India and some from Pakistan and some from
different parts of the country, so the stands will be packed.
But you can't say the same thing about the excitement now,
I mean the day before the game, the excitement is
pretty cold. Unlike in India, for example, you can see
or India or anywhere like in Australia or in England,
you cannot see people waiting for the team bus to come,
trying to get into the practice.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Academy towards the nets and nothing like that.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
This hart lining was about team India practicing here or
they're going to meet Pakistan the next game.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So that was somedg. Who's the Indian Expresses reporter on the.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Ground in Dubai right now and he will be covering
the India Pakistan game if that game actually goes ahead.
Despite the vehement protests of all the I think the
random Twitter accounts that post only about cricket, they've kind
of boycotted it. I've heard one very prominent new channel
anchor getting really angry about India playing Pakistan and has
(16:55):
asked very tough questions of cricket legends like such and
sorrow Gamuli, but no questions of the BCS itself. So
very kind of strange dynamics there. But anyway, Mere you
spoke about, you know, the pressure on the cricketers themselves.
The twenty two cricketers will be in the middle of
the whole storm in a sense, when India plays Pakistan,
(17:16):
it's going to be incredibly tricky, right because these guys,
whenever they meet each other, it's not as if there
is a lot of victorol between them or bad blood
between them. Occasionally you will have, you know, a couple
of these one off incidents where I can't remember which
bowler it was, the guy who got Schumann gel out
and then kind of, you know, did a gesture towards
(17:39):
Schuman while he was walking away. You have those kinds
of incidents on one and when India play Pakistan in
recent times.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But then on the other hand.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You have that beautiful moment between chain Sha Freely and
just pre Boomera in twenty twenty three when I think
it was another Asia Cup and during a Super four game,
Chainsha actually went to Bumra and gave him like a gift,
like a goodie bag of sorts for just Bread's newborn
son Anger, and we have. You know, there are these
two things that coexist at the same time, and as
(18:09):
you mentioned, it's going to be very tricky for these
players to kind of not get swayed by all the
talk outside and you know, overreact to things, but while
also trying to win the cricket game itself. Yeah, and
if we were to come to that, the cricket game itself.
Just at the top of the episode, we said that
how this might be a scute contest and it looks
(18:29):
increasingly like that, although I must add that the Best
Trest of India report on Saturday said that the stadium
wasn't full. All tickets were not sold, which is again,
like you know, a rare instance when it comes to
a match between India and Pakistan, especially in Dubai, which
has a decent number of xpack communities from both countries.
But yeah, about the cricket, India is expected to win
(18:50):
this match overwhelming favorites, not just for their bowling unit,
but the batting will be the major deciding factor. India
has a very strong batting lineup patting unit, unlike Pakistan,
who struggled against Uman and Sandhiji had this to say
about both countries and the form and the one sidedness
(19:12):
of this competition.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Both teams actually crushed their opponents, but then Pakistan bit
Oman and India bit ue ue were balled for fifty
seven and Oman will borloed for sixteen nan. But both
teams have shown they have pretty good balling depth. Pakistan
have a variety of wood spinners, left arm spinner, left
arm auth Doog spinner, right arm Karen ball flicking spinner,
a left arm Authlock spinner, leg spinner. But the biggest
(19:34):
difference between batting because Pakistan made one hundred and sixtyerence
is staggered tow one hundred and sixty uns, like they struggled,
their payed some hideous shots. They never looked composed when batting.
I mean it's not frictional less like unlike India batting.
They bettered so smoothly the other day and they've been
batting pretty well over the last couple of years. You know,
there's depth everywhere, you know, from Bidjik Sharma to Shupmann
Guil to Suru Komaria, the Sanjo Sampson coming down the
(19:55):
order had Pandia. I mean there are hitters everywhere, There
are aggressive bats and there are world class players everywhere,
gifted batsman who can come in any role and change
the game with the way they play.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But Pakistans is a young side, developing side.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
You know there are talented and batsmen like Mohmouth Harris
and Haasan Nava's old guard Faker Saman and Salmanaga as well,
but they still to click as a unit. There are
like not too many batsmen are in great form. For example,
Momouth Harris was like before this half century against Omani
had like eleven innings with combined score of fifty two
runs and Zahib Zadafarhana struggling all along his twenty eight
(20:29):
or twenty seven balls and Salmanaga played a hideous show
to get out again. So there a lot of question
masks over the batting, about the batting depth, about the
adeptness to the international stage, and how they can hold
up against the best bawling team in the world. You
know will be the other just breath Booma on Chakrabati.
It's such a well rounded attack so Indian they were
invariably start as favorites, overwhelming favorites.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yeah, I'm at the that's the cricketing side of it,
which Sandig is neatly captured. Unless the match really goes
belly up for India, I think it should be a
pretty straightforward win. But we've seen in the past that
there are many other factors which kind of decide in
India Pakistan match and not only talent. Is there any
particular thing that you're looking forward to tonight?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Me?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I think one of the things is how does an
India Pakistan match kind of play out when you know,
you kind of don't have some of the biggest names
that used to dominate conversations about these games.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You had We're at, you had Rohit, you had Barber.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Irizan also to an extent, But all these four guys
are not there in either of the teams.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So who are the guys that step up?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Who are the guys that kind of take charge of
the narrative in a sense and take charge of the
contest itself. That's what I'm very interested by because that
will be the next I think the todge bearer for
the teams. We already know kind of that Shudmann is
now being molded or hailed as the next big thing
in Indian cricket. But Pakistan says similarly, Kornuga, we'll kind
of get to know very soon.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, Saimu biz I was reading Sandiji's report so far
from the shuk up and I kind of am excited
to watch Sai Mayuba of spinner. He has Karen Ball,
so you know, a new name in that sense, So
I'm excited to see how he goes. But I think
this Indian team is very strong, but doubt me, especially
(22:16):
you know at the top with I mean, I was
kind of skeptical of how Schubmannil would fit in. But
I understand that UE isn't the best test of opponents.
But well they look pretty solid. And just the calmness
with which Suya Kumara the leeds the team, I think
in a match like Pakistan, his casualness, you know, he's
(22:38):
just a friend to everyone in the team, kind of
a why that he gives away. I think that will
be quite critical too, because you need someone who will
kind of calm the nerves speller before they go for
the kill. So yeah, unless, like I said, unless something
goes really belly up, India should be in this pretty comfortably.
And I guess there I have chinxed the summit.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, so basically lose then you responsible. Is that what
you are saying.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, that's what I'm not saying, But well, if that's
what you want to infer, then that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I think.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's about it. For this week's episode of Game Time.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
We shall be linking his home address in the show
notes just in case India does actually lose to Pakistan,
so you.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Know where to go to.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, I just don't mention that tentas in Marine Drive,
so otherwise I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
The first of the possible three installments between India and
Pakistan and the Asia Cup is tonight. Let's see how
that goes. And there's a lot of other actions this
week to Nira Chokra Nadim. The other India Pakistan encounter
will be midweek in Tokyo and we will be covering
that and all the other World Championships slash Asian Championships
(23:48):
that are happening. So many things happening simultaneously this month.
We'll be covering all of it on the website, in
the paper, and on the podcast tea following us. Thanks
for listening.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
We're listening to Express Pods by the Indian Express. This
week's show was edited and mixed by Sesh Bawar and
produced by Mesha shang Bargev. If you like the show,
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(24:22):
Indianexpress dot com
Hello and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time and this is the day when India will
play Pakistan in the Asia Cup T twenty. I think
one of the first of the three possible matches between
the two teams. With a lot of questions over whether
India should have actually played this match at all. There
is a whole lot of noise and chatter around this match.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
They might not be an edge on field.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
The rivalry, as everyone's been writing and saying, the rivalry
between the two teams might not be what it was
it ten years ago with India now head and shoulders
about Pakistan, but chatter around it has added kind of
an edge to this match, which, let's be honest, ahmiit
adds some kind of context to the Asia Cup, which
(00:52):
has so far been pretty dull.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Me I have a theory that they only conduct the
Isha Cup to have India Pakistan matches.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
I don't know what is the.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Point of Asia Cup anyway, but love, I know that
the top teams in the world kind of come from Asia,
like some of them at least, but still Asia Cup
is like, this is a cold idea just to have
India Pakistan play as many times as possible without it
sounding like India is playing Pakistan in like a proper
bilateral and it's like not even subtle, right, they just
(01:23):
put India Pakistan in the same group. I think that
it's one of the only sports where they basically manipulated
by saying that I love it doesn't matter what you
guys think. We know that this is where the money
is made and we are going to make sure that
we make as much money as we can, as many
times as we can, which is why I mean, you
spoke about the complexities and the politics. Mayor We'll get
(01:45):
to at some point during the podcast, but it's kind
of hilarious to me. At some point, I think guys
like Herbert and saying Ura saying must be sitting at
home right now wondering here. The Indian cricket team, the
actual Indian cricket team is going to play.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
The actual Pakistan Cricket League.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
And just a few months back, we kind of boycotted
playing the Pakistan champions in the way only, and I
mean we took a stand on moral grounds because the
Pelgram terror attack had happened and we wanted to do
it in solidarity with the country, which is all fair.
I mean, sure the cricketers want, like you know, cricket
(02:23):
to be used as a vehicle to make a political stance, Sure,
go for it. But then you have the main team
actually playing a cricket game, and as you pointed out,
it probably will be not just one game, it will
probably be multiple times.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
They will probably face each other in the knockout stages again.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Or maybe they'll just meet in whatever contrived format they
have for this tournament, right, and.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Then they will probably also possibly meet in the final.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, And I think that's the whole point that's bothering
so many people, right, I mean, let's just get dive
head on this issue of whether India should be playing this.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Match at all.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
To be honest, I don't know what the right answer
to this is, and in my eyes there is no
wrong answer as well from both points of view. But
at some level I feel that I think BCC has
not been totally honest. This isn't about the fact that
you are in a multi nation tournament and you have
to play them. If BCC I wanted, they could have
(03:24):
flexed their muscles like they have so many times in
the past. The question is should they should? Then sport
become a victim of everything else that's happening in the world,
and where do you stop. There has been a clear
cut stand taken by the Indian government of not to
play Pakistan in bilateral series. Then there are exceptions made
to give Pakistani teams and players visas to even enter
(03:46):
India for events that have multiple nations. I mean, most
recently we saw for the Asha Cup Hockey in Rajki,
the Pakistan team was given the visa but they chose
not to come citing security reasons, and Similarlyakistani teams will
be coming for the Junior Hockey World Cup later this
year as well, So it's not like the country has
completely cut off sporting relationship with Pakistan. The point though,
(04:10):
is I feel it's a thing of convenience on it,
and people keep talking about a lot of money riding
on India Pakistan matches. Of course there is, but it's
like more money than already. It's not like the survival
of cricket depends on India Pakistan the money it generates.
So I think a convenience on the argument that you know,
India should play Pakistan, I mean, either you cut off completely,
(04:32):
or you don't and you don't play, or you just like,
you know, play everywhere. I completely confused with the stand
the Pakistan team Indiani ask that the India team Pakistani
as them but her neutral venues PI hailing it, or
we team started Tomshad like this Kaling. It's just too
confusing and it's just non committal on the whole issue.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
It sounds like a very non monogamous relationship in a
sense ethically non monogamous.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Or if I may, I guess yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Think you spoke about the duality of stands right, the
paradox of not playing a team in bilaterals but then
saying we can always play in like multiple country while
the tournaments say we.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Can play there.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I also want to point out that India head coach
Gotham gambiir the Paldom attack happened on April twenty two
in Kashmir when twenty six people were killed in the
terror attack, and right after that, sometime in May when Gotham.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Gambiro was asked, you know what do you think about.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
India playing Pakistan and his exact answer was, my personal
answer to this is absolutely no. Till all this by
Vichy meant terrorism doesn't stop. There should not be anything
between India and Pakistan, right, And that same guy over
this weekend, he's going to be leading his troops out
in a sense to battle, and I'm pretty sure that
(05:48):
he'll probably give it some sort of angle and say
that you know this, we looked at this as trying
to get Butler for whatever.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But yeah, it's very tricky.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Consistencies a little absent, like we can't spot consistency anywhere,
you know, and mere For the record, India has not
played like a bilateral series with Pakistan since January twenty thirteen,
in fact, which what it's twelve years since we last
played Pakistan in a tournament. They've consistently played each other
(06:19):
in other tournaments like we've played recently at the Champions Sophie,
the World Cups happened there. They play against each other
things like that. But bilateral series that's where we drow online.
I guess one of the reasons they keep giving is
that when you have bilateral series, the money that is
raised that goes to directly the boards, right, whereas when
you play in like multi country events, the money kind
(06:42):
of gets split between all of them. So the profit
that every federation or every board makes is slightly less,
which again I mean, if you want to cut off
the profits, you cut it off completely. I mean, this
is a little bit of a skewed argument. I'm very
curious what do you think about the whole politics of
it In a sense we've spoken about the complex at least,
(07:03):
but what do you think about the politics of it all?
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I mean, the politics of it all is what puzzles me,
you know, And before you know I answer this question.
I think it's also the right time to hear from
Sandy g who's in the by covering Graytia Cup for us.
He couldn't join us directly for the podcast, but he
did send a few voice notes and we asked him about,
you know, this whole issue and whether the Indian team
(07:27):
has been affected or whether this chatter has kind of,
you know, breached the wall that is covering the Indi team,
that spenses them from the outside world and the tournament
kind of focus that is there. So here's what Sandip
had to say about it.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Yeah, players and coaches have been asked this question, but
you know, they have a usual deflected that question away.
There is buzzing a certain section of Indian media that
you know, we shouldn't be playing, and we shouldn't be
whether we write or not. But the players are not
bothered and the support stuff are not brotheredting history said that, like,
I mean, what over the government says we'll do that.
I mean, there's no unnecessary fractiousness about this contest unless
(08:04):
it's needless edge about the contest. I mean, and in
this team is spading in both of the teams sign
of you are you also said the same thing like me,
You know, we're not bother about what's happening. They're about
the geopolitical tensions or diplomatic worries.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
US these days don't divel too much from that.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
Even otherwise, even other ways outside you know, there's hardly
any apparent animosity between people of these two nations.
Speaker 5 (08:25):
So I think even the stance will be the same.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
You know, for all the rivalry of the field, you
know what I mean, in the stands modelists, we're always
peaceful whenever Indian Pakistan have played, and like for example,
when Pakistan and Afkanisan plays, it's or seen Streeland and
bundleds playing.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
You've heard about crowds clash, fans clashing with each other
and all those.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Stuff, But India Pakistan match them in generally peaceful, when
fans of both sides have sat next to each other
and enjoyed the game, appreciated each other, hugged and exchange pleasantries.
I mean, it's always been harmonious and I think it
would be the same on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, so I'm a that's some deep and what he
sensed from on ground following the Indian team at the
Asia Cup in Dubai, And you asked me about the
politics of it, and the politics of it is what
kind of gnawing at some level? Right, There are so
many teams across sports, Indian and Pakistani teams, I mean
(09:17):
that play each other. We know that last year the
tennis team, Indian tennis team went to Pakistan and played
a Devis Cup tie over there. The bridge players have
traveled to Pakistan so many times and they've played there.
India and Pakistan's hockey teams over the years have played
each other, not in bilateral but in tournaments. So you know,
there has always been an increased chatter when it comes
(09:39):
to the politics of it. When the cricket teams play
because cricket gets more eyeballs. So that's not a secret
I think anymore, and that's quite obvious with the way
this whole thing is going. The only time I thought
was an exception to this was when the government cleared
visas for the Pakistani hockey team to come to India
for the Asha Cup, which concluded last week in be Hard.
(10:01):
There was a lot of anger to that decision, and
Pakistan I think sensed that reaction and they chose not
to come. That's my reading of the situation. So I
think the sentiment post Pehelgam terror attacks has kind of
changed and there is this demand I think is the
right world. I don't know if that's the right word,
but well, there is this at least a call that
(10:22):
India should not play Pakistan in any sport. Whether it's feasible,
we don't know. I mean, we've seen another sport submit
how that works out right. I mean Iran and Israel,
for example, they never play each other wherever it may be.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Even at the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We've seen so many occasions where the teams from Iran
and Israel, or athletes individually, they don't play each other.
Iranian athletes invariably end up giving a bye or just
forfeiting the match when they're playing against any Israeli opponents.
So in that case, is the willainness to kind of
isolate Pakistan on not play Pakistan a sporting field that's
(10:56):
strong that India is willing to forfeit any match if
it is a World Cup semi final or final. That
is the question I think, which will require a lot
of debate and that will also test the actual sentiment
of the people.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
What do you think, Mirah? Because you've covered Olympics for
so long, I wanted to ask you this. You know,
when an Indian team, let's say, an Indian government does
not allow a Pakistani team to come to India, Let's say,
for any event like the Ashia Cup that happened in.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
India in Rasgi.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
If the Pakistani team had said that no, no, we
want to come and India had not allowed them to
come at prohibited them, how much of an effect would
that have had when India went and tried to bid
for the Olympics in twenty thirty six or the Commonwealth
Games let's say in twenty thirty will that kind of
have a bearing on these IOCs and the Commonwealth Games
(11:48):
federations deciding whether to give India the Olympics or the
Commonwealth Games. Events like that that, you know, see, these
events are something now the movie government has very clearly
said that that is a priority in terms of sport
going into the next decade in a sense, So how
does that kind of work out if the Indian government
(12:08):
decides not to allow any Pakistani team to enter for
any sport.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
So that has been categorically ruled out. The government has
pretty much said that for multi nation events they will
be issuing visas to Pakistani athletes, not for bilateral series.
The Bilotal series are off the table. And they've precisely
cited the reason which you have said, which is the
bid for the twenty thirty six Olympics. The Cornell Games
are relatively a smaller thing compared to the whole Olympic ambition.
(12:34):
And there have been instances in the past where India
has been punished for this. If you remember after the
Balacote strikes twenty nineteen incident, you know, where India and
Pakistan were again close to a war or they were
involved in clashes. The Indian government did not issue visas
to a Pakistani shooting team which was supposed to travel
to Delhi for a World Cup, and that led to
(12:57):
India's suspension at an Olympic level. Massive threat of a
was issued by the IOC, the International Olympic Committee, saying
that India violated this clause in the Olympic Charter. The
charter is this rule book which guides how international sport
ideally should be run, and India were found guilty of
violating that that rule, and the IOC demanded that Indian
government given writing that this won't happen in future, which
(13:20):
the government did back then in twenty nineteen. So the
government also is bound by the principles that govern international
sport and they just can't arbitrarily say no to a
country from entering their borders because of the political issues there.
So that is of course an issue which so far
the government has said that multi nation they'll allow Pakistan.
(13:43):
But although when we talk about cricket, there is again
an exception to the rule because the Women's World Cup
which starts later this month, India and Pakistan will be
playing on neutral territories and not in India, which is
the host of that World Cup. But I mean, you know,
moving on. I think the other issu you over a year,
and it's something that I'll be watching with a very
(14:04):
keen eye, is when the teams eventually take the field
on Sunday night or on the subsequent days in the
next week or ten days, I think the players also
will be under a lot of pressure, not to win
or anything, but just with the fear that if the
slightest of actions will be kind of scrutinied or magnified
(14:24):
on social media or TV channels and blown out of proportion.
I think that factor might also very heavily weigh on
the players' minds.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Before we get into our own views on what it
will be like. I think it's the right time to
probably get in Sunday g who has explained what this
mood is like on the ground in Dubai right now
as the world kind of and Dubai itself kind of
braces itself for an India Pakistan encounter, and usually India
(14:53):
Pakistan clash is like.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
A tempest of emotions.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
There is a lot of your broadcasters usually kind of
build up these clashes with the whole whatever the milk, Yeah, right,
it's marketed in a certain way also, but right now,
maybe it's seeming a little tempered down, so I think
Salibri will be able to tell us what it feels
like on the ground.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
In the Unlike the Dubai heat, the excitement has been
slow burning with the India Pakistan game. It's the city's
characteristic also the city is it is sol less and
pragmatic in that way, not tuned to sports, not clutched
by sports. Unlike for example, Charja, which had a lot
of laborers from Pakistan and India and Bangladesh staying there,
Dubai is a different city, so it doesn't show an
(15:39):
outdoored enthusiasm for the game. So has hardly been any
bus in the city as such, except for the PBu
asks them like I mean about the rivalry and all
those stuff. Other than that, there's no outpower of excitement
or bus. You know, the city that moves along in
its space, in its pragmatic pace. But the crowd will
invariably come on a Sunday, the stadium.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Will be packed. You know, a lot of people will be.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
Coming from India and some from Pakistan and some from
different parts of the country, so the stands will be packed.
But you can't say the same thing about the excitement now,
I mean the day before the game, the excitement is
pretty cold. Unlike in India, for example, you can see
or India or anywhere like in Australia or in England,
you cannot see people waiting for the team bus to come,
trying to get into the practice.
Speaker 5 (16:20):
Academy towards the nets and nothing like that.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
This hart lining was about team India practicing here or
they're going to meet Pakistan the next game.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
So that was somedg. Who's the Indian Expresses reporter on the.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Ground in Dubai right now and he will be covering
the India Pakistan game if that game actually goes ahead.
Despite the vehement protests of all the I think the
random Twitter accounts that post only about cricket, they've kind
of boycotted it. I've heard one very prominent new channel
anchor getting really angry about India playing Pakistan and has
(16:55):
asked very tough questions of cricket legends like such and
sorrow Gamuli, but no questions of the BCS itself. So
very kind of strange dynamics there. But anyway, Mere you
spoke about, you know, the pressure on the cricketers themselves.
The twenty two cricketers will be in the middle of
the whole storm in a sense, when India plays Pakistan,
(17:16):
it's going to be incredibly tricky, right because these guys,
whenever they meet each other, it's not as if there
is a lot of victorol between them or bad blood
between them. Occasionally you will have, you know, a couple
of these one off incidents where I can't remember which
bowler it was, the guy who got Schumann gel out
and then kind of, you know, did a gesture towards
(17:39):
Schuman while he was walking away. You have those kinds
of incidents on one and when India play Pakistan in
recent times.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
But then on the other hand.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
You have that beautiful moment between chain Sha Freely and
just pre Boomera in twenty twenty three when I think
it was another Asia Cup and during a Super four game,
Chainsha actually went to Bumra and gave him like a gift,
like a goodie bag of sorts for just Bread's newborn
son Anger, and we have. You know, there are these
two things that coexist at the same time, and as
(18:09):
you mentioned, it's going to be very tricky for these
players to kind of not get swayed by all the
talk outside and you know, overreact to things, but while
also trying to win the cricket game itself. Yeah, and
if we were to come to that, the cricket game itself.
Just at the top of the episode, we said that
how this might be a scute contest and it looks
(18:29):
increasingly like that, although I must add that the Best
Trest of India report on Saturday said that the stadium
wasn't full. All tickets were not sold, which is again,
like you know, a rare instance when it comes to
a match between India and Pakistan, especially in Dubai, which
has a decent number of xpack communities from both countries.
But yeah, about the cricket, India is expected to win
(18:50):
this match overwhelming favorites, not just for their bowling unit,
but the batting will be the major deciding factor. India
has a very strong batting lineup patting unit, unlike Pakistan,
who struggled against Uman and Sandhiji had this to say
about both countries and the form and the one sidedness
(19:12):
of this competition.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
Both teams actually crushed their opponents, but then Pakistan bit
Oman and India bit ue ue were balled for fifty
seven and Oman will borloed for sixteen nan. But both
teams have shown they have pretty good balling depth. Pakistan
have a variety of wood spinners, left arm spinner, left
arm auth Doog spinner, right arm Karen ball flicking spinner,
a left arm Authlock spinner, leg spinner. But the biggest
(19:34):
difference between batting because Pakistan made one hundred and sixtyerence
is staggered tow one hundred and sixty uns, like they struggled,
their payed some hideous shots. They never looked composed when batting.
I mean it's not frictional less like unlike India batting.
They bettered so smoothly the other day and they've been
batting pretty well over the last couple of years. You know,
there's depth everywhere, you know, from Bidjik Sharma to Shupmann
Guil to Suru Komaria, the Sanjo Sampson coming down the
(19:55):
order had Pandia. I mean there are hitters everywhere, There
are aggressive bats and there are world class players everywhere,
gifted batsman who can come in any role and change
the game with the way they play.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
But Pakistans is a young side, developing side.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
You know there are talented and batsmen like Mohmouth Harris
and Haasan Nava's old guard Faker Saman and Salmanaga as well,
but they still to click as a unit. There are
like not too many batsmen are in great form. For example,
Momouth Harris was like before this half century against Omani
had like eleven innings with combined score of fifty two
runs and Zahib Zadafarhana struggling all along his twenty eight
(20:29):
or twenty seven balls and Salmanaga played a hideous show
to get out again. So there a lot of question
masks over the batting, about the batting depth, about the
adeptness to the international stage, and how they can hold
up against the best bawling team in the world. You
know will be the other just breath Booma on Chakrabati.
It's such a well rounded attack so Indian they were
invariably start as favorites, overwhelming favorites.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yeah, I'm at the that's the cricketing side of it,
which Sandig is neatly captured. Unless the match really goes
belly up for India, I think it should be a
pretty straightforward win. But we've seen in the past that
there are many other factors which kind of decide in
India Pakistan match and not only talent. Is there any
particular thing that you're looking forward to tonight?
Speaker 5 (21:12):
Me?
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I think one of the things is how does an
India Pakistan match kind of play out when you know,
you kind of don't have some of the biggest names
that used to dominate conversations about these games.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
You had We're at, you had Rohit, you had Barber.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Irizan also to an extent, But all these four guys
are not there in either of the teams.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So who are the guys that step up?
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Who are the guys that kind of take charge of
the narrative in a sense and take charge of the
contest itself. That's what I'm very interested by because that
will be the next I think the todge bearer for
the teams. We already know kind of that Shudmann is
now being molded or hailed as the next big thing
in Indian cricket. But Pakistan says similarly, Kornuga, we'll kind
of get to know very soon.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Yeah, Saimu biz I was reading Sandiji's report so far
from the shuk up and I kind of am excited
to watch Sai Mayuba of spinner. He has Karen Ball,
so you know, a new name in that sense, So
I'm excited to see how he goes. But I think
this Indian team is very strong, but doubt me, especially
(22:16):
you know at the top with I mean, I was
kind of skeptical of how Schubmannil would fit in. But
I understand that UE isn't the best test of opponents.
But well they look pretty solid. And just the calmness
with which Suya Kumara the leeds the team, I think
in a match like Pakistan, his casualness, you know, he's
(22:38):
just a friend to everyone in the team, kind of
a why that he gives away. I think that will
be quite critical too, because you need someone who will
kind of calm the nerves speller before they go for
the kill. So yeah, unless, like I said, unless something
goes really belly up, India should be in this pretty comfortably.
And I guess there I have chinxed the summit.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, so basically lose then you responsible. Is that what
you are saying.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, that's what I'm not saying, But well, if that's
what you want to infer, then that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I think.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's about it. For this week's episode of Game Time.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
We shall be linking his home address in the show
notes just in case India does actually lose to Pakistan,
so you.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Know where to go to.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, I just don't mention that tentas in Marine Drive,
so otherwise I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
The first of the possible three installments between India and
Pakistan and the Asia Cup is tonight. Let's see how
that goes. And there's a lot of other actions this
week to Nira Chokra Nadim. The other India Pakistan encounter
will be midweek in Tokyo and we will be covering
that and all the other World Championships slash Asian Championships
(23:48):
that are happening. So many things happening simultaneously this month.
We'll be covering all of it on the website, in
the paper, and on the podcast tea following us. Thanks
for listening.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You.
Speaker 6 (24:00):
We're listening to Express Pods by the Indian Express. This
week's show was edited and mixed by Sesh Bawar and
produced by Mesha shang Bargev. If you like the show,
then do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also recommend the show to someone you think
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in your family. It's the best way for people to
get to know about us. You can also tweet us
at Express Podcasts and write to us at podcasts at
(24:22):
Indianexpress dot com
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