September 25, 2025 • 24 mins
Hosts Amit Kamath, Vinayakk Mohanarangan, and Mihir Vasavda discuss Neeraj Chopra’s eighth place finish at the Athletics World Championships, examining the possible reasons behind his struggles this season and how he might bounce back. They also look at Sachin Yadav’s fourth place finish, a result that came as a pleasant surprise.
(This episode was record on the 19th of September)
Produced by Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawas
(This episode was record on the 19th of September)
Produced by Shashank Bhargava
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawas
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time with Me, Mihia Win and amit R in
the house as always. And I'll be honest, when we
decided that we'll be doing a javelin episode for this weekend,
the tragedy that we'll be taking karamit myself, none of
(00:24):
us would have imagined the outcome or the course of
discussion in today's podcast, because well, Nira Chopra has eventually
proved that he is a human as well. And I
let the stats and the numbers let when I come
up with that. But long story shot, he finished eighth
(00:45):
at the World Championship, such any other of the other
Indian in the final finished fourth. First time Nira Chopra
was kind of I was going to use the word
outclass I mean, I don't know if it was outclass order,
but first time an Indian finished better than Nira chokan
an international competitioner anywhere for that matter. But more importantly,
a cycle for Nirochopra that began at the Tokyo Olympics
(01:07):
has ended at the Tokyo World Championship, a cycle where
he did not finish outside the top two even once
in these four years. A remarkable run that comes to
an end. So when ik, I'll come straight to you,
you had done the number crunching for Niroj's jaw dropping consistency.
Let's start with that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, So thirty three events is what I calculated, not
including qualification rounds to jappen at Worlds and Olympics, thirty
three events straight that nieder Jad finished in the top three.
The last time he finished outside top three was September
twenty eighteen, seven years back, five hundred and sixty six
days is when he finished outside top three in any
(01:49):
event that he participated in. That tells you the story, right,
It's just been a daggering run. And like you said,
for a top two finish, it's even more remarkable that
I think June or July twenty twenty one was the
last time Quote and Games in Finland was the last
time he finished even outside top two. So that's like
four plus years of top two finishes at all the
events that he's participated in. And as he saw, I saday,
(02:09):
It's javelin is a very technical event. It's a very
tight field. So in an event like that, to finish
consistently in the top three, top two is just a
staggering achievement. And I mean, all good things come to
an end, as they say. So, yeah, that's three came
to a close in Tokyo on Thursday as he finished
eighth in what was a truly bizarre final.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I got yeah when I you know, you spoke about
why it was a very bizarre event. I mean, obviously,
any event where the reigning world champion finishes eighth and
the raining Olympic champion kind of finishes tenth, obviously there
will be a sense that something very strange has gone
about in the event itself. On top of that, there
(02:49):
was also the sense that Keshan Walcott, you know, I
think the last time he was on the top of
a podium at a big ticket event was what London Olympics,
maybe twenty twelve. So thirty years after that he's winning
a gold medal. He's spoken about, you know how we
almost considered not competing in these big events anyway, that
his time has gone behind him, all of that, and
(03:09):
then suddenly he comes and wins a gold medal. So
obviously these kind of things are an indicator that something
has gone something unique, something strange happened.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
At Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But do you want to maybe talk about what exactly
was it that made you think that it was a
little strange in a sense?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, So I think see the conditions typically impact a
lot in javelin, right. I mean, you know you've been
in Tokyo. You saw the final that Neededge won four
years back, and we were expecting a medal for nearers,
but we saw I think quite a few surprises, with
Vetter not even qualifying for the final. I think even
Peters didn't qualify for the final if iry call correctly
(03:46):
four years back, who won silver yesterday. So conditions do
play a part, but I don't think it was such
a big factor yesterday.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think Nedge throw, which ended up paying his last
throw because he couldn't clear the top six, was when
it started raining. I think it started raining quite heavily
and NEAs actually ended up slipping and he said later
that he wasn't able to grip the javelin and all that.
So that was because of the conditions. But otherwise, I think,
as neris revealed after the event, it's largely down to
his lack of appropriate training in the lead up, given
(04:16):
that he had a back injury. He spoke to the
reporters after the event in the MiG zone. There is
eleven minute video that N and I Sports uploaded. It's
well worth a watch, just you know, because it's always
worth listening to neederj And yesterday he was in a
very reflective mood where he spoke about what happened in
the lead up to Tokyo. They do the shot but
training as part of the javelin preparations where you know,
(04:38):
they throw the shot but behind and forward. They call
the back throw a forward throw, and when he bent
down to do a forward throw during one of these
sessions on September fourth, he said he felt a pull
sort of jerk on the left side of his back,
which later revealed a problem in his disc. As they
went for MRIs in Brague where he was training, and
this happened just before he left to Tokyo, so once
(05:00):
he reached Tokyo also he wasn't able to practice for
his throws of the javelin. As such, it was all
about rehab and getting fit, and he also said he
contemplated not participating here as well in Tokyo, but later
after one session where his hands felt okay, he decided
to go out and practice. So yeah, I think more
than conditions. I think for Neirich himself it was a
(05:21):
back issue, but otherwise the other bizarre things, I mean,
hasn't really competed. He has had his calf surgery, so
that's probably down to not being him being under present
as well. Webber for me was the biggest surprise. I
thought Mihir can talk a little bit about that. I
think the curse that Weber has been facing at the
major events, I think that probably was the biggest. I mean,
given what we know about Niras now, probably Wever was
(05:42):
a big surprise.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I like we were discussing yesterday, I venak. I feel
that he peaked too early. He could have you know,
played the season better. He really, I think went all
out in competitions which really do not matter in the
bigger picture, in diamond leagues and the big nineties that
he threw there. So I kind of had a few that,
you know, he'd emptied his tank quite a bit heading
into the World Championships, so not really surprised that he
(06:06):
finished outside the podium places. But yeah, it's definitely sad,
you know, someone who's been trying so hard to get
onto the podium for god knows how many years. I mean,
isn't he around even before Nidach became Niederch So that's
how long he's been there. And it's very interesting how
the whole javelin thing keeps shiftings. So it was Europe
(06:27):
dominated for so many decades, then suddenly we had the
small spell where viation throwers continued to dominate. If we
look beyond the medals, then Asia was the highest represented
continent in the twelve man final, and on the podium
at the World Championship it was the Americas. So the
concentration of javelin talent in the last ten years has
(06:49):
shifted quite crazily, I think.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Meir, I think this one thing that you mentioned now
it was very interesting you said that, you know, maybe
Weber kind of peaked too early in the season. But
me obviously the last two years that we've seen the
World Championship, I mean in the last three years.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
If you look at Budapest.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Twenty twenty three, or you look at Oregon twenty twenty two,
both of these times, the World Championship itself was slightly later,
or actually it was earlier, sometime in July or August. Right,
So this is the first time that the World Championship
is coming actually after the Diamond League final and things
like that. It's been pushed slightly to the back of
(07:28):
the calendar in a sense, almost to the end.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So is that also something that could have played a
role with why a lot of athletes had kind of,
you know, already on that dissent in there, that periodization cycle.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
In a sense, it's interesting, right, I mean World Athletics
did this. They pushed the Championships to September in a
way to make this the grand ending to the year. Right.
It isn't a case where you have like a run
of events, then there is like the World Championship in
between where everything goes and then you again slide down
with the season ending tournament. So they wanted the World
(08:04):
Championships to be their season ending tournament, and that's why
it was pushed to September. I don't know how it
would have been bettered, say someone like a Nusha Nadim,
who had I think it was in July when he
had that calf surgery that Vinayak mentioned. I don't know
if he would have been able to compete if this
was in the regular window or how it would have
been for many directors. I mean, the way Weber started
throwing after May, who knows if it was in July
(08:26):
or August, he could have perhaps been on the podium.
So yeah, it's a nice hypothesis how different things could
have been if it was in the usual window of
July and August. But it is what it is, I mean.
And also interestingly, right since you point out Kashan Walcott
started working with Klaus Bartoni, it's full on after May,
and Klaus is the person responsible for neither reaching so
(08:47):
high up on the javelin ladder across the world. So
Klaus and Kishan Walcott, the ultimate world champion, they started
working sometime in October last year. That's what one of
the newspapers had it, that in October they started their
sessions virtually and it was only after May this year
at the Dua Emily that the met in person and
started you know, working together at June onwards. So perhaps
(09:10):
Walcott couldn't have reached the top of the podium if
this was in that July over Swindow. When I do
you think it would have changed?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean, it's a possible theory, but I mean these
athletes and their teams they planned accordingly. I mean it
wasn't like a late decision. They knew at the start
of the year. What was so that their period decision
like I mentioned, would have been planned accordingly. Just to
counter that a little bit, maybe, I mean, we've seen
enough athletes come up with championship records, were leading me
numbers in the Tokya Championships so far. I mean last
(09:38):
like when the needed event was happening. I mean just
after that, Sydney mitkla Levrone ran the second four fastest
four hundred madion of all time. I mean that's what
they planned for, right. I mean, all of these athletes
know that the World Championships is the main event of
the year, so they would have planned that way. So
I mean if it was in August, they would have
planned accordingly. So other events have witnessed these crazy numbers,
maybe more in track that think about it, not so
(10:01):
much in field. But yeah, I mean it's something that
these guys planned for, so guessing that that would have
figured into that picture. One thing that I did want
to ask you me here is the class factor. Nihal
Kochhi from our team has a lovely story. I think
we should link that in the program notes if possible,
of clause. Actually he said he was planting potatoes in
(10:21):
a farm. Technically he had said that he's retiring from coaching.
Many parted ways with Meiraj. He didn't really have in
mind to take up a new role. Just a little
bit on that Claus factor. You know, crazy that this
guy keeps delivering, as we said in our print today
the Santa Doctor class of men's javelin.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
He's the man with the golden arm. Is he sewing
potatoes and reaping gold medals? If at all it makes
any sense? But seriously, what an impact, right Wolcott I
loved his courte after winning the gold medal, and he
said getting Claus as his coach was his best decision,
and then he was to ad this year. But the
(11:01):
impact Claus has had on Walcott in such a short
period is quite incredible. Walcott kind of underlined what all
they've been doing since June when they started working together,
and he said that, you know, initially the trust factor
wasn't coming so easily. I mean, Forcers said that Klaus's
background was biomechanics and he had been completely in a
(11:23):
different training zone where he had a proper hardcore javelin
coach for the last couple of years. Klaus, he said,
was short and to the point. This is something that
needs to always kept on saying. And if you remember
at the Tokyo Olympics, Klaus is short and to the point.
Intervention during the qualifying from the warm up throws till
(11:43):
the first qualifying throw is what helped needed to crack
that qualifying mark in the first throw itself. So Miraja's
time and again said that how is very brief and
to the point. Communication kind of helps him understand what
has to be done in a better way. But then
Walcott also said that training grouping, but it was a
quote and quote radical shift, you know, where the focus
(12:04):
was in precision efficiency, not just you know, randomly throwing
one hundred javelins a week or something like that. So
clearly Klaus has had a big impact on Keshn Walcott's
performance and it kind of makes you wonder, right because
when Niroj and Klaus they decided to move on and
needs then teamed up with the Angels. Ni Klaus had
(12:25):
back then said that he's retiring from the sport. So
now you wonder if they just wanted kind of if
Niros wanted a fresh perspective because he wasn't able to
touch that ninety meter. I mean, was this something more
to than just Klaus wanting to retire and needed kind
of saying goodbye. That's That's something that I've been thinking
about since yesterday.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Me.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know, maybe it does feel a little bit like,
you know, Nius kind of realized that the ninety meter
thing was such a big deal, that all the medals
were coming, you know, Tokyo Olympics medal came, World Championship
medals came, All of that was happening, and it did
seem kind of almost effortless for nearers. And you mentioned,
you know that he's a guy who gives you, like
(13:04):
to the point, precise instructions. I remember at Tokyo he
told us that he learned a few Hindi words just
to inspire nearers. They were hard, lower and danush right,
these just these three words you would keep repeating just
to tell him that your blocking leg has to be
as stiff as I think a hard upper body has
to be like a dush so flexible, you know, these
(13:26):
sorts of things. She's almost like a motivational Paddy up
Ton of sorts with a biomechanics degree in a sense.
But as you pointed out, it could just be that
maybe Nearers and Klaus both realized that at some stage
you get to that point where things are working out
for you, but then you try and overthink it and think, maybe,
(13:47):
who knows, if we change something, I could be even better,
or change of sceniery because that inertia sensing and you
don't feel motivated or challenged enough with the current situation.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Maybe it was that and me.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, from as long as Tokyo, we know this
that Nero has spoken about this at length. He's said
this that how much he's covetted that link up with
the Yelesnie. He's always looked up to him, ever since
he started throwing javelins. Yellsnie was somebody he looked at
us like an idol as a reference point.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So obviously it's natural.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That when he realized that Yeleesnie was available a partnership
with him could be explored, he would have jumped at it.
And obviously we don't know what has happened behind the scenes.
We are just guestimating at this point, so that must
be pointed out, Meir and when I to both of
you guys, A, what do you think about this partnership
with Yelesnie do you think it's reaped benefits for NEAs?
(14:45):
And second, what do you guys think of this whole
final competition format? You know that they seem to have
borrowed it from shooting where one thrower kind of gets
eliminated after one throw, but whatever at one stage and
then you have one more throw to stay off elimination,
you can't, then you get eliminated. Who continue with? How
is that a more dramatic thing? Or do you prefer
(15:07):
the earlier format?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Just on the first aspect before me joints and I
think it's a big off season coming up for Neieds.
I feel in reference to the jealous Ny Neededs partnership,
I think, like you guys have pointed out there not
on hundred percent sure of why the parting of ACE
happened with clause. I mean, like we know what they've
said on record, like in press conferences and in interviews.
Niro just mentioned that doctor Claus said that he wants
(15:31):
to spend more time with his family. He's seventy five
seventy six. Now this was taking too much of his
time and he wanted to move on from that sort
of Yeah, And I think in one of the post
Diamond League interviews, Needed said that I wanted him to stay.
I tried to convince him, but once I knew that
he had his mind set, then you know, I mean
I didn't force him to like change his decision or whatever.
(15:53):
So if that is actually what happened, then it makes sense.
And then the partnership with Walcott, why did he take
that up? I think yesterday we got a small hint
in that nial interview that you know, he didn't think
this was like a full time thing, right, I mean,
this is not like working with an athlete day in
day out, traveling to all events. It's just like a
small partnership sort of mentoring sort of thing that he
(16:15):
thought he had time for. And now they're going to
sit and discuss postseason what is going to be the
deal going forward with Kishon Walcott. So maybe that's what happened.
And obviously, like I'm it said, if jealousy is available
and mirage idolizes him, so we went for that partnership,
which this is no brainer. Whether it is real benefits
or not. I think me here can add a little
bit here that ninety meters throw in Doha actually felt
(16:36):
like it was with the old technique that Niras had.
I think we're discussing this when it happened as well.
It was more of the class eras sort of the
end of that bookending class era with the sort of
technique that he had worked with Nira John with the
fully fit nearage now which I think jealousy played a
part in getting him fully fit from the groin negle,
so that really helped. But after the new technique started,
(16:58):
you know, taking shape in training, I think spoke about
this a little bit, that he's still trying to adapt
between the old and the new sort of training techniques.
But that is why I think this offseason is going
to be big for Needage. Whether this can actually I mean,
when a fully fit Needage with the new training techniques
can deliver next year, what do you think would that
be a fair assessman made?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, just on the Klaus thing right for I think
October twenty twenty four to May, Klaus and Kishan Walcott
work largely on a consultancy basis, right, so it wasn't
full time like Klaus was with Neig. He wasn't traveling
with Kishon Walcott everywhere he went. And even after they
went more full time, it was Kishan Walcott moving to
Klaus's hometown in Germany. So the whole narrative that Klaus
(17:41):
wanted to spend more time with his family, he was
turning seventy six and all that stands. So that's the
first thing. And I think, like we were discussing yesterday,
if at all there was a good time for Nieraj's
streak of first or second place finishes to end, I
think this is a good time for them. Of course,
you would have loved that his dominance would continue till
(18:04):
he retires or whatever, but practically that wouldn't have been possible.
The graph was constantly on such a high that attacked
to kind of had a small dip at some point.
And this is a good year because it's a post
Olympic year. There is a lot of resetting and experimenting
going on across many sports from a lot of athletes.
(18:25):
And next year is when you know you'll start again
getting back into the rhythm. The momentum. I'm sure Niage
will be looking at either the Commonwealth or the Asian Games,
one of the two competitions next year to kind of
get back into that zone. Then it'll be the time
for the World Championships again the following year, and you
have the LA Olympics soon after that in a few months.
(18:47):
So the next year is when the momentum will really
start picking. And like you had mentioned that this entire
block of offseason, if Niage gets that entire period with
the listeny, it will be important. It's only then, I think,
when we be able to judge whether this partnership has
worked or not. It's still too early. Neiledj had worked
with Klaus for five years. It's tough to then say
(19:08):
that his partnership with heres and he hasn't worked out
in what ten months now or something like that. So let's,
I think, give it time. Let's see how they are
this time next year, and if Neros improves again. You're
right when you said that the ninety meter came because
he was fit, and needs had always said, even when
Klaus was his coach, that if he was fit, he
could get a ninety meter throw in, So so that's
(19:29):
what it did. But what do you guys think what
next for Neiajin that since I think we should then
also maybe focus a bit on such any other. But
Ahmed Una, what do you think what's next for Nidras? Now?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Just before he had asked about that format, I'm actually
okay with this format. It made it a little more interesting.
Maybe athletes didn't enjoy it too much because of that
pressure of you know, making the cut and all that.
No one has really spoken about it as far as
I know, but I kind of enjoyed the jeopardy that
it brought in terms of, you know, who's going to
make the cut. At one point it took like bablitch
might even eliminate shit before the fourth attempt, So that
(20:01):
sort of thrill is there, and you know, Nira is
trying to stay alive get that six throw and unfortunately
rain affected it, and I think it made it interesting.
I think so yeah, yeah, I think me.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, as you pointed out, you know, the next
year will be for needs to rebuild and especially get
into that whole thing that technique and new technique, just
try and like find a balance. We're doing it by
working with Yelesnie and hopefully it works. Over what do
you think what is the next step for just get
a solid training block. Maybe sometime away from the javelin
(20:34):
should help him. I don't think he's competing anywhere else.
He's not slated competing this year, so maybe he'll get
a nice good break and then again hit the ground
running with Telesney and see whether that whole issue about
technique that he's been saying so repeatedly for the last
four or five months throughout this season of has never
been one hundred percent happy with his throw. He's always
(20:55):
said that, you know, I can do better. I can
do better. But just in this season wherever he's completed,
he's sounded a little agitated that he isn't able to
kind of, you know, perfect his technique, and it's crossed
between what he used to do earlier in the clouds
and what years needs trying to get ingrained into him
so that client, like you said, will help him going forward.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, it's just your weird feeling to talk about Neiraj
who's finished eighth and not get into even a fight
forget a podium. So one person did, though, get into
a fight, such an Yather. He was on podium places
for a while before he dropped to fourth, and then
hung on to that position. Great finish when I can again,
like we talk about the depth of javelin and the
(21:35):
legacy that Niraj is leaving, I think such any other's
fourth place wouldn't have been possible without nas kind of
showing the wave.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, that's probably the biggest silver nding from needed evening.
I think it was also like in that video that
I mentioned, the eleven minute interview that at the start
of the video he speaks about his back and one
of the first things he says is how happy is
for such in which he's always done right. I mean,
if you listen to any need So Copress conference, he
never fails to mention fellow Indian athletes who've been doing well,
(22:05):
not just javelin. He's always had praise for you know, DJs, Whan,
the triple jumpers, the long jumper, station Hunker. He's spoken
highly of all the Indian athletes would do well, Sablay,
He's never failed to mention them, pick them up, so
to speak. And for suching to finish fourth and to
have the year that he's had, you know, finishing second
at the Asian Championships, just behind us and the team,
(22:25):
and for me One of the markers that I always
look for in a good athlete is whether they're able
to deliver their best at the big events. Right, that's
what you trained for. Service deserves to mention there just
because he pulled off his personal best and I jump
a first ever high jumper from India to qualifif on
finals and in finishing in the top six. So if
you're able to do your best at these big events,
I think that's a marker of your mentality, your training,
(22:47):
your physical periodization and all that. I think such An
maybe three throws were better than his previous personal best
if I'm not wrong. Yeah, certainly his best throw was
a new PB and came I think forty centimeters short
of finishing in the top three, which is you know, thats.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Just the consistent with which he reached eighty five, Right,
he was around eighty five throughout.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, and that's a really good sign. You know. With Jenna,
you saw Nation Games that he had that one big
throw eighty seven, but since then he struggled. But suching
has showed much more consistency in these mid eighties, and
hopefully the next step comes and he goes beyond eighty
eight and ninety. Eventually he's shown that he has the
capability of doing this. I think we were discussing this
in office. He is more of a Nadin kind of
(23:29):
a thrower, where it's more about the physicality of it.
Is a power thrower needs is a technical thrower. So
I'm excited to see where such a ghost from here
after this year that he's had.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Absolutely I mean India had four rowers in the entire competition.
Two made it to the final. Such and fourth second
needs eighth again, I mean second comes very naturally about
near edge, right, But yeah, such and fourth nearers eight.
No medal for India from these World Championships, and I
think largely it's been an underwhelming World Championship Season four
(24:00):
India so far. I think it's a topic we can
maybe discussed in depth at a later episode of Game Time.
That's all we have for this week. Thank you for listening.
We will be back with a new episode next week.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
You were listening to Express Ports by the Indian Express.
This week's show was edited and mixed by Sesh Bawar
and produced by Mesha Shangbargev.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
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Hello, and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time with Me, Mihia Win and amit R in
the house as always. And I'll be honest, when we
decided that we'll be doing a javelin episode for this weekend,
the tragedy that we'll be taking karamit myself, none of
(00:24):
us would have imagined the outcome or the course of
discussion in today's podcast, because well, Nira Chopra has eventually
proved that he is a human as well. And I
let the stats and the numbers let when I come
up with that. But long story shot, he finished eighth
(00:45):
at the World Championship, such any other of the other
Indian in the final finished fourth. First time Nira Chopra
was kind of I was going to use the word
outclass I mean, I don't know if it was outclass order,
but first time an Indian finished better than Nira chokan
an international competitioner anywhere for that matter. But more importantly,
a cycle for Nirochopra that began at the Tokyo Olympics
(01:07):
has ended at the Tokyo World Championship, a cycle where
he did not finish outside the top two even once
in these four years. A remarkable run that comes to
an end. So when ik, I'll come straight to you,
you had done the number crunching for Niroj's jaw dropping consistency.
Let's start with that.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, So thirty three events is what I calculated, not
including qualification rounds to jappen at Worlds and Olympics, thirty
three events straight that nieder Jad finished in the top three.
The last time he finished outside top three was September
twenty eighteen, seven years back, five hundred and sixty six
days is when he finished outside top three in any
(01:49):
event that he participated in. That tells you the story, right,
It's just been a daggering run. And like you said,
for a top two finish, it's even more remarkable that
I think June or July twenty twenty one was the
last time Quote and Games in Finland was the last
time he finished even outside top two. So that's like
four plus years of top two finishes at all the
events that he's participated in. And as he saw, I saday,
(02:09):
It's javelin is a very technical event. It's a very
tight field. So in an event like that, to finish
consistently in the top three, top two is just a
staggering achievement. And I mean, all good things come to
an end, as they say. So, yeah, that's three came
to a close in Tokyo on Thursday as he finished
eighth in what was a truly bizarre final.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I got yeah when I you know, you spoke about
why it was a very bizarre event. I mean, obviously,
any event where the reigning world champion finishes eighth and
the raining Olympic champion kind of finishes tenth, obviously there
will be a sense that something very strange has gone
about in the event itself. On top of that, there
(02:49):
was also the sense that Keshan Walcott, you know, I
think the last time he was on the top of
a podium at a big ticket event was what London Olympics,
maybe twenty twelve. So thirty years after that he's winning
a gold medal. He's spoken about, you know how we
almost considered not competing in these big events anyway, that
his time has gone behind him, all of that, and
(03:09):
then suddenly he comes and wins a gold medal. So
obviously these kind of things are an indicator that something
has gone something unique, something strange happened.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
At Tokyo.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
But do you want to maybe talk about what exactly
was it that made you think that it was a
little strange in a sense?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, So I think see the conditions typically impact a
lot in javelin, right. I mean, you know you've been
in Tokyo. You saw the final that Neededge won four
years back, and we were expecting a medal for nearers,
but we saw I think quite a few surprises, with
Vetter not even qualifying for the final. I think even
Peters didn't qualify for the final if iry call correctly
(03:46):
four years back, who won silver yesterday. So conditions do
play a part, but I don't think it was such
a big factor yesterday.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Of course.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I think Nedge throw, which ended up paying his last
throw because he couldn't clear the top six, was when
it started raining. I think it started raining quite heavily
and NEAs actually ended up slipping and he said later
that he wasn't able to grip the javelin and all that.
So that was because of the conditions. But otherwise, I think,
as neris revealed after the event, it's largely down to
his lack of appropriate training in the lead up, given
(04:16):
that he had a back injury. He spoke to the
reporters after the event in the MiG zone. There is
eleven minute video that N and I Sports uploaded. It's
well worth a watch, just you know, because it's always
worth listening to neederj And yesterday he was in a
very reflective mood where he spoke about what happened in
the lead up to Tokyo. They do the shot but
training as part of the javelin preparations where you know,
(04:38):
they throw the shot but behind and forward. They call
the back throw a forward throw, and when he bent
down to do a forward throw during one of these
sessions on September fourth, he said he felt a pull
sort of jerk on the left side of his back,
which later revealed a problem in his disc. As they
went for MRIs in Brague where he was training, and
this happened just before he left to Tokyo, so once
(05:00):
he reached Tokyo also he wasn't able to practice for
his throws of the javelin. As such, it was all
about rehab and getting fit, and he also said he
contemplated not participating here as well in Tokyo, but later
after one session where his hands felt okay, he decided
to go out and practice. So yeah, I think more
than conditions. I think for Neirich himself it was a
(05:21):
back issue, but otherwise the other bizarre things, I mean,
hasn't really competed. He has had his calf surgery, so
that's probably down to not being him being under present
as well. Webber for me was the biggest surprise. I
thought Mihir can talk a little bit about that. I
think the curse that Weber has been facing at the
major events, I think that probably was the biggest. I mean,
given what we know about Niras now, probably Wever was
(05:42):
a big surprise.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
I like we were discussing yesterday, I venak. I feel
that he peaked too early. He could have you know,
played the season better. He really, I think went all
out in competitions which really do not matter in the
bigger picture, in diamond leagues and the big nineties that
he threw there. So I kind of had a few that,
you know, he'd emptied his tank quite a bit heading
into the World Championships, so not really surprised that he
(06:06):
finished outside the podium places. But yeah, it's definitely sad,
you know, someone who's been trying so hard to get
onto the podium for god knows how many years. I mean,
isn't he around even before Nidach became Niederch So that's
how long he's been there. And it's very interesting how
the whole javelin thing keeps shiftings. So it was Europe
(06:27):
dominated for so many decades, then suddenly we had the
small spell where viation throwers continued to dominate. If we
look beyond the medals, then Asia was the highest represented
continent in the twelve man final, and on the podium
at the World Championship it was the Americas. So the
concentration of javelin talent in the last ten years has
(06:49):
shifted quite crazily, I think.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Meir, I think this one thing that you mentioned now
it was very interesting you said that, you know, maybe
Weber kind of peaked too early in the season. But
me obviously the last two years that we've seen the
World Championship, I mean in the last three years.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
If you look at Budapest.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Twenty twenty three, or you look at Oregon twenty twenty two,
both of these times, the World Championship itself was slightly later,
or actually it was earlier, sometime in July or August. Right,
So this is the first time that the World Championship
is coming actually after the Diamond League final and things
like that. It's been pushed slightly to the back of
(07:28):
the calendar in a sense, almost to the end.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Right.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So is that also something that could have played a
role with why a lot of athletes had kind of,
you know, already on that dissent in there, that periodization cycle.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
In a sense, it's interesting, right, I mean World Athletics
did this. They pushed the Championships to September in a
way to make this the grand ending to the year. Right.
It isn't a case where you have like a run
of events, then there is like the World Championship in
between where everything goes and then you again slide down
with the season ending tournament. So they wanted the World
(08:04):
Championships to be their season ending tournament, and that's why
it was pushed to September. I don't know how it
would have been bettered, say someone like a Nusha Nadim,
who had I think it was in July when he
had that calf surgery that Vinayak mentioned. I don't know
if he would have been able to compete if this
was in the regular window or how it would have
been for many directors. I mean, the way Weber started
throwing after May, who knows if it was in July
(08:26):
or August, he could have perhaps been on the podium.
So yeah, it's a nice hypothesis how different things could
have been if it was in the usual window of
July and August. But it is what it is, I mean.
And also interestingly, right since you point out Kashan Walcott
started working with Klaus Bartoni, it's full on after May,
and Klaus is the person responsible for neither reaching so
(08:47):
high up on the javelin ladder across the world. So
Klaus and Kishan Walcott, the ultimate world champion, they started
working sometime in October last year. That's what one of
the newspapers had it, that in October they started their
sessions virtually and it was only after May this year
at the Dua Emily that the met in person and
started you know, working together at June onwards. So perhaps
(09:10):
Walcott couldn't have reached the top of the podium if
this was in that July over Swindow. When I do
you think it would have changed?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I mean, it's a possible theory, but I mean these
athletes and their teams they planned accordingly. I mean it
wasn't like a late decision. They knew at the start
of the year. What was so that their period decision
like I mentioned, would have been planned accordingly. Just to
counter that a little bit, maybe, I mean, we've seen
enough athletes come up with championship records, were leading me
numbers in the Tokya Championships so far. I mean last
(09:38):
like when the needed event was happening. I mean just
after that, Sydney mitkla Levrone ran the second four fastest
four hundred madion of all time. I mean that's what
they planned for, right. I mean, all of these athletes
know that the World Championships is the main event of
the year, so they would have planned that way. So
I mean if it was in August, they would have
planned accordingly. So other events have witnessed these crazy numbers,
maybe more in track that think about it, not so
(10:01):
much in field. But yeah, I mean it's something that
these guys planned for, so guessing that that would have
figured into that picture. One thing that I did want
to ask you me here is the class factor. Nihal
Kochhi from our team has a lovely story. I think
we should link that in the program notes if possible,
of clause. Actually he said he was planting potatoes in
(10:21):
a farm. Technically he had said that he's retiring from coaching.
Many parted ways with Meiraj. He didn't really have in
mind to take up a new role. Just a little
bit on that Claus factor. You know, crazy that this
guy keeps delivering, as we said in our print today
the Santa Doctor class of men's javelin.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
He's the man with the golden arm. Is he sewing
potatoes and reaping gold medals? If at all it makes
any sense? But seriously, what an impact, right Wolcott I
loved his courte after winning the gold medal, and he
said getting Claus as his coach was his best decision,
and then he was to ad this year. But the
(11:01):
impact Claus has had on Walcott in such a short
period is quite incredible. Walcott kind of underlined what all
they've been doing since June when they started working together,
and he said that, you know, initially the trust factor
wasn't coming so easily. I mean, Forcers said that Klaus's
background was biomechanics and he had been completely in a
(11:23):
different training zone where he had a proper hardcore javelin
coach for the last couple of years. Klaus, he said,
was short and to the point. This is something that
needs to always kept on saying. And if you remember
at the Tokyo Olympics, Klaus is short and to the point.
Intervention during the qualifying from the warm up throws till
(11:43):
the first qualifying throw is what helped needed to crack
that qualifying mark in the first throw itself. So Miraja's
time and again said that how is very brief and
to the point. Communication kind of helps him understand what
has to be done in a better way. But then
Walcott also said that training grouping, but it was a
quote and quote radical shift, you know, where the focus
(12:04):
was in precision efficiency, not just you know, randomly throwing
one hundred javelins a week or something like that. So
clearly Klaus has had a big impact on Keshn Walcott's
performance and it kind of makes you wonder, right because
when Niroj and Klaus they decided to move on and
needs then teamed up with the Angels. Ni Klaus had
(12:25):
back then said that he's retiring from the sport. So
now you wonder if they just wanted kind of if
Niros wanted a fresh perspective because he wasn't able to
touch that ninety meter. I mean, was this something more
to than just Klaus wanting to retire and needed kind
of saying goodbye. That's That's something that I've been thinking
about since yesterday.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Me.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You know, maybe it does feel a little bit like,
you know, Nius kind of realized that the ninety meter
thing was such a big deal, that all the medals
were coming, you know, Tokyo Olympics medal came, World Championship
medals came, All of that was happening, and it did
seem kind of almost effortless for nearers. And you mentioned,
you know that he's a guy who gives you, like
(13:04):
to the point, precise instructions. I remember at Tokyo he
told us that he learned a few Hindi words just
to inspire nearers. They were hard, lower and danush right,
these just these three words you would keep repeating just
to tell him that your blocking leg has to be
as stiff as I think a hard upper body has
to be like a dush so flexible, you know, these
(13:26):
sorts of things. She's almost like a motivational Paddy up
Ton of sorts with a biomechanics degree in a sense.
But as you pointed out, it could just be that
maybe Nearers and Klaus both realized that at some stage
you get to that point where things are working out
for you, but then you try and overthink it and think, maybe,
(13:47):
who knows, if we change something, I could be even better,
or change of sceniery because that inertia sensing and you
don't feel motivated or challenged enough with the current situation.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Maybe it was that and me.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know, from as long as Tokyo, we know this
that Nero has spoken about this at length. He's said
this that how much he's covetted that link up with
the Yelesnie. He's always looked up to him, ever since
he started throwing javelins. Yellsnie was somebody he looked at
us like an idol as a reference point.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So obviously it's natural.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
That when he realized that Yeleesnie was available a partnership
with him could be explored, he would have jumped at it.
And obviously we don't know what has happened behind the scenes.
We are just guestimating at this point, so that must
be pointed out, Meir and when I to both of
you guys, A, what do you think about this partnership
with Yelesnie do you think it's reaped benefits for NEAs?
(14:45):
And second, what do you guys think of this whole
final competition format? You know that they seem to have
borrowed it from shooting where one thrower kind of gets
eliminated after one throw, but whatever at one stage and
then you have one more throw to stay off elimination,
you can't, then you get eliminated. Who continue with? How
is that a more dramatic thing? Or do you prefer
(15:07):
the earlier format?
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Just on the first aspect before me joints and I
think it's a big off season coming up for Neieds.
I feel in reference to the jealous Ny Neededs partnership,
I think, like you guys have pointed out there not
on hundred percent sure of why the parting of ACE
happened with clause. I mean, like we know what they've
said on record, like in press conferences and in interviews.
Niro just mentioned that doctor Claus said that he wants
(15:31):
to spend more time with his family. He's seventy five
seventy six. Now this was taking too much of his
time and he wanted to move on from that sort
of Yeah, And I think in one of the post
Diamond League interviews, Needed said that I wanted him to stay.
I tried to convince him, but once I knew that
he had his mind set, then you know, I mean
I didn't force him to like change his decision or whatever.
(15:53):
So if that is actually what happened, then it makes sense.
And then the partnership with Walcott, why did he take
that up? I think yesterday we got a small hint
in that nial interview that you know, he didn't think
this was like a full time thing, right, I mean,
this is not like working with an athlete day in
day out, traveling to all events. It's just like a
small partnership sort of mentoring sort of thing that he
(16:15):
thought he had time for. And now they're going to
sit and discuss postseason what is going to be the
deal going forward with Kishon Walcott. So maybe that's what happened.
And obviously, like I'm it said, if jealousy is available
and mirage idolizes him, so we went for that partnership,
which this is no brainer. Whether it is real benefits
or not. I think me here can add a little
bit here that ninety meters throw in Doha actually felt
(16:36):
like it was with the old technique that Niras had.
I think we're discussing this when it happened as well.
It was more of the class eras sort of the
end of that bookending class era with the sort of
technique that he had worked with Nira John with the
fully fit nearage now which I think jealousy played a
part in getting him fully fit from the groin negle,
so that really helped. But after the new technique started,
(16:58):
you know, taking shape in training, I think spoke about
this a little bit, that he's still trying to adapt
between the old and the new sort of training techniques.
But that is why I think this offseason is going
to be big for Needage. Whether this can actually I mean,
when a fully fit Needage with the new training techniques
can deliver next year, what do you think would that
be a fair assessman made?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Yeah, just on the Klaus thing right for I think
October twenty twenty four to May, Klaus and Kishan Walcott
work largely on a consultancy basis, right, so it wasn't
full time like Klaus was with Neig. He wasn't traveling
with Kishon Walcott everywhere he went. And even after they
went more full time, it was Kishan Walcott moving to
Klaus's hometown in Germany. So the whole narrative that Klaus
(17:41):
wanted to spend more time with his family, he was
turning seventy six and all that stands. So that's the
first thing. And I think, like we were discussing yesterday,
if at all there was a good time for Nieraj's
streak of first or second place finishes to end, I
think this is a good time for them. Of course,
you would have loved that his dominance would continue till
(18:04):
he retires or whatever, but practically that wouldn't have been possible.
The graph was constantly on such a high that attacked
to kind of had a small dip at some point.
And this is a good year because it's a post
Olympic year. There is a lot of resetting and experimenting
going on across many sports from a lot of athletes.
(18:25):
And next year is when you know you'll start again
getting back into the rhythm. The momentum. I'm sure Niage
will be looking at either the Commonwealth or the Asian Games,
one of the two competitions next year to kind of
get back into that zone. Then it'll be the time
for the World Championships again the following year, and you
have the LA Olympics soon after that in a few months.
(18:47):
So the next year is when the momentum will really
start picking. And like you had mentioned that this entire
block of offseason, if Niage gets that entire period with
the listeny, it will be important. It's only then, I think,
when we be able to judge whether this partnership has
worked or not. It's still too early. Neiledj had worked
with Klaus for five years. It's tough to then say
(19:08):
that his partnership with heres and he hasn't worked out
in what ten months now or something like that. So let's,
I think, give it time. Let's see how they are
this time next year, and if Neros improves again. You're
right when you said that the ninety meter came because
he was fit, and needs had always said, even when
Klaus was his coach, that if he was fit, he
could get a ninety meter throw in, So so that's
(19:29):
what it did. But what do you guys think what
next for Neiajin that since I think we should then
also maybe focus a bit on such any other. But
Ahmed Una, what do you think what's next for Nidras? Now?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Just before he had asked about that format, I'm actually
okay with this format. It made it a little more interesting.
Maybe athletes didn't enjoy it too much because of that
pressure of you know, making the cut and all that.
No one has really spoken about it as far as
I know, but I kind of enjoyed the jeopardy that
it brought in terms of, you know, who's going to
make the cut. At one point it took like bablitch
might even eliminate shit before the fourth attempt, So that
(20:01):
sort of thrill is there, and you know, Nira is
trying to stay alive get that six throw and unfortunately
rain affected it, and I think it made it interesting.
I think so yeah, yeah, I think me.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
You know, as you pointed out, you know, the next
year will be for needs to rebuild and especially get
into that whole thing that technique and new technique, just
try and like find a balance. We're doing it by
working with Yelesnie and hopefully it works. Over what do
you think what is the next step for just get
a solid training block. Maybe sometime away from the javelin
(20:34):
should help him. I don't think he's competing anywhere else.
He's not slated competing this year, so maybe he'll get
a nice good break and then again hit the ground
running with Telesney and see whether that whole issue about
technique that he's been saying so repeatedly for the last
four or five months throughout this season of has never
been one hundred percent happy with his throw. He's always
(20:55):
said that, you know, I can do better. I can
do better. But just in this season wherever he's completed,
he's sounded a little agitated that he isn't able to
kind of, you know, perfect his technique, and it's crossed
between what he used to do earlier in the clouds
and what years needs trying to get ingrained into him
so that client, like you said, will help him going forward.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, it's just your weird feeling to talk about Neiraj
who's finished eighth and not get into even a fight
forget a podium. So one person did, though, get into
a fight, such an Yather. He was on podium places
for a while before he dropped to fourth, and then
hung on to that position. Great finish when I can again,
like we talk about the depth of javelin and the
(21:35):
legacy that Niraj is leaving, I think such any other's
fourth place wouldn't have been possible without nas kind of
showing the wave.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, that's probably the biggest silver nding from needed evening.
I think it was also like in that video that
I mentioned, the eleven minute interview that at the start
of the video he speaks about his back and one
of the first things he says is how happy is
for such in which he's always done right. I mean,
if you listen to any need So Copress conference, he
never fails to mention fellow Indian athletes who've been doing well,
(22:05):
not just javelin. He's always had praise for you know, DJs, Whan,
the triple jumpers, the long jumper, station Hunker. He's spoken
highly of all the Indian athletes would do well, Sablay,
He's never failed to mention them, pick them up, so
to speak. And for suching to finish fourth and to
have the year that he's had, you know, finishing second
at the Asian Championships, just behind us and the team,
(22:25):
and for me One of the markers that I always
look for in a good athlete is whether they're able
to deliver their best at the big events. Right, that's
what you trained for. Service deserves to mention there just
because he pulled off his personal best and I jump
a first ever high jumper from India to qualifif on
finals and in finishing in the top six. So if
you're able to do your best at these big events,
I think that's a marker of your mentality, your training,
(22:47):
your physical periodization and all that. I think such An
maybe three throws were better than his previous personal best
if I'm not wrong. Yeah, certainly his best throw was
a new PB and came I think forty centimeters short
of finishing in the top three, which is you know, thats.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Just the consistent with which he reached eighty five, Right,
he was around eighty five throughout.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, and that's a really good sign. You know. With Jenna,
you saw Nation Games that he had that one big
throw eighty seven, but since then he struggled. But suching
has showed much more consistency in these mid eighties, and
hopefully the next step comes and he goes beyond eighty
eight and ninety. Eventually he's shown that he has the
capability of doing this. I think we were discussing this
in office. He is more of a Nadin kind of
(23:29):
a thrower, where it's more about the physicality of it.
Is a power thrower needs is a technical thrower. So
I'm excited to see where such a ghost from here
after this year that he's had.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Absolutely I mean India had four rowers in the entire competition.
Two made it to the final. Such and fourth second
needs eighth again, I mean second comes very naturally about
near edge, right, But yeah, such and fourth nearers eight.
No medal for India from these World Championships, and I
think largely it's been an underwhelming World Championship Season four
(24:00):
India so far. I think it's a topic we can
maybe discussed in depth at a later episode of Game Time.
That's all we have for this week. Thank you for listening.
We will be back with a new episode next week.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
You were listening to Express Ports by the Indian Express.
This week's show was edited and mixed by Sesh Bawar
and produced by Mesha Shangbargev.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
If you like the show, then.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
Do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. You
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