November 9, 2025 • 33 mins
The journey of Indian women's cricket from sidelines to spotlight
This week, Vinayakk and Mihir are joined by expert guest Ananya Upendran, who played for Hyderabad and India A during her career and is Program Lead at GoSports Foundation for the Equal Hue program. Ananya reflects on the journey of women's cricket over the years and the challenges it overcame before becoming world champions.
Produced by Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
This week, Vinayakk and Mihir are joined by expert guest Ananya Upendran, who played for Hyderabad and India A during her career and is Program Lead at GoSports Foundation for the Equal Hue program. Ananya reflects on the journey of women's cricket over the years and the challenges it overcame before becoming world champions.
Produced by Ichha Sharma
Edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time with Me, Mihir and Vinayaka last week, and
I spent a lot of time talking about the Women's
World Cup when India's wonderful triumph. Unfortunately or fortunately for
all you listeners, and I will be doing it again.
But very fortunately we are joined by someone who is
(00:25):
the expert at that subject, someone's played at a very
high level and knows women's cricket and the entire journey
of women's cricket better than most of us, A Pengron.
We are very glad to have you here now for
our listeners. Anonya has played for Hyderabad and India during
her career. She is the program lead at CO Sports
(00:45):
Foundation for the Equal You program and you might have
seen her at the auction table for Deli Capitals during
the Women's Premier League more recently so she's had all
roles including a media person.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Ananya, thank you so much for that introduction and for
having me. I feel like you've put a hell of
a lot of pressure on me now to sound like
I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But hopefully I'm able to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Oh, I think I can safely say that when can
I numb it to a name? Whenever easier, We make
this podcast just sort of that. We just make it
sound that we know what we are talking about, so
you'll feel right at home, right.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I just told her before we got onto the podcast
that me and I are probably under more pressure than
she is.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
So yeah, but thanks Annya for doing this.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I know you've had some crazy travel, so I appreciate
you recording this at your convenience.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
So yeah, let's get to it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So we start. You know, we're recording this on a Friday.
It's been five days since India lifted the World Cup.
Has it sunk in for someone who's followed the sport
through its lowest of lows to now the highest of highs?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Interesting question? Has it sunk in? I think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I remember, like the afternoon after the final come back
from Homby to Bang Law, and I had taken a
nap in the afternoon and I got up thinking, wait,
did yesterday actually happen?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And it felt like such a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I think it still partially feels a little bit like
a dream. Of course, you're seeing the players go back
home and receive these incredible welcomes the cash prizes being
announced by governments and all that. Has it sunk in,
I think a little bit, but I think it'll take
time to actually understand how big of an achievement this
actually is.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
So anyone you were at the venue? Is it for
the final?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
I was at the venue lovely, So just talk to
us at those moments.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I mean, first things first, near forty thousand doneout, which
actually wasn't surprising for those who followed women's cricket at
due partial that famous sold out sign from a couple
of years back is still fresh. Just what was that
mostly like and for you to see that in front
of your own eyes, Just describe those final moments and
that they in general for us.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think, yeah, it was very very surreal, to be honest.
I walked into the ground a little late. Obviously the
start was delayed because of the rain, and I actually
think that helped fill up the stadium for the very
start of the game. But to walk in and just
see stands packed for a women's game, having watched a
lot of international cricket where there have been empty stands
(03:20):
and barely I mean no crowd outside of the families
of players, so to actually see a jam packed stadium
with a sea of blue.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I cannot recall many many green shirts.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
There were probably one, I mean one or two in
the stand that I was sitting in, but yeah, it
was just surreal to see that, to be part of it,
and just the general excitement around the game, to see
the number of kids who turned up. And the thing
that I loved about watching the final in the stands
was just the fact that everyone seemed quite encouraging. It
(03:54):
was a very wholesome environment and everyone was appreciated both teams.
Of course, it did get very quiet when Laura Wilfartt
was batting as well as she was, and when she
put on a partnership with Sunee and then Annie Ducks
in the middle, but I think it was just incredible
to be part of that. I briefly chatted with Kardnya Kishev,
(04:14):
who was also there, a very senior journalist, and we
were standing there thinking, you know, who would have ever
thought this was possible ten years ago, twelve years ago,
twenty thirteen, when the World Cup was in India. It
was such a stark difference, like no one turned up,
like there were very few people in the stands, very
few journalists, but.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Here the press box I assume was full.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The stands were definitely full, and it just felt like
such a vindication of you know, maybe we've actually made it.
But yeah, it was surreal to see how things panned out.
It felt a little like a dream. But I honestly
couldn't hold back the tears when the national anthem was
playing in the beginning, just to see the number of
people there.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And it was such an incredible atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And then of course at the end when they actually
won again, I found myself balling. But and it was
less about the result and more about I mean, yes,
the result was incredible, but it was also just about
how far we've come as a sport.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
And just to see the people who were.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Their former players, senior runalists, administrators and everyone, so many
people who've played such a big part in the growth
of the women's game in India. To see everyone almost
come together and see such a historic moment unfold, who
was quite something either.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You mentioned the twenty thirteen World Cup, and I agree
the contrast couldn't be stark because I'll raised my hand
up and I admit that I haven't really followed women's
quick as closely as passionately as you guys have. But
the two World Cups there, fortunately I had the chance
to kind of, you know, cover both. And I remember
the twenty thirteen World Cup, some matches in Bombay were
(05:54):
shifted from the Wankai Stadium because they wanted to host
their run Gi Trophy finals there, and the move some
matches to the MiG ground in Bandrive, if I recall
it properly, and it was such a bizarre situation because
the road leading up to the ground was half dug
up because roads in Bombay are always dug up, and
there were no stands of course at MiG, so there
(06:17):
were no spectators. So all you had were like five
six MiG club members, some two or three journalists and
the people I think taking care of the ground. And
that's about it. And if I recall the final, was
it Breboron right, and there was more excitement among the
media persons and a lot of us were guilty because
(06:38):
again my memory doesn't fail me. It was when Mitchell
Stark was in a relationship with Elisa Heally and he
dropped by to say hi to her or something, and
a lot of people watching that match were more excited
for that moment rather than the whole of the finals.
So from there to what we saw in Mumbai last Sunday,
that is a big journey, I think. And how do
(07:01):
you look at it? Because you stuck by the sport
when most of the country did not believe in it.
So for you, how has this journey been To see
it from a very close.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Circle, I think, well, twenty thirteen, obviously I was playing,
so sticking by it was because I wanted to and I.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Had big dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I think for me, from the very beginning, I
told myself that I would find a way to get
women's cricket on the map, and that was either by
playing and being at that time of Metali Raditulunguswami or
Elise Perry, or I would write about the game so
much that that people and talk about it, that it
would kind of be in the minds and hearts of
the Indian public. And I think I was really lucky
(07:42):
along the way to find people like Siddhanta Partna, like
garden A Keishavsniel Bradhan, people who encouraged that side of
me and who were also very passionate about the women's game.
So to see it kind of go from almost being
a bit of a side show, I mean, actually it
felt I think initially like women's cricket was in the
BCCI fold because it had to be, not because people
(08:04):
wanted it to be. But I think the players and
the people the storytellers involved just kept at it and
kept pushing the agenda in some ways, and like the
players obviously kept putting up good performances, and journalists around
kept telling their stories and shedding light on all the
amazing things that these players were doing. So to see
(08:27):
it go from not many people wanting to watch, not
many people really caring about the actual sport itself, to
where it is now has been quite fascinating, I think.
Honest to God, I don't think I thought it would
get here weirdly as quickly as it has. I mean,
I know it's taken a really long time, but to
see like to think that it was only twelve years ago,
(08:49):
that twenty thirteen World Cup, it theoretically doesn't seem that
long ago. It has felt like a very long time.
But I think in the larger scheme of saying twelve
years is not that much. But I think it's down
to the people who've played, the people who've administered and
actually really cared, but also a lot of journalists who've
stuck by this team told a lot of incredible stories
(09:12):
about the players. And I think after India lifted the
trophy on Sunday, one of the people who I'm sure
a lot of people have spoken about, but one of
the people that I was thinking about, I know, garden
it was as well was Sadhanta and how he was
such a champion of the game and people like there
are so many people like him who've constantly told the
(09:33):
stories of players, of administrators and people who've pushed the
women's game forward.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And I honestly don't.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Know how to put into words how it's made me feel,
but to be part of it, a small, tiny little
part of it.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Feels kind of satisfying to see where they've come.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
But why I stuck with it was simply because I
don't know, I'm a bit of a cricket geek, and
the act this always felt like it's women like cricket
has always felt like home to me.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Yeah, yeah, very very lovely. Aya.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Just for readers who might not be awares, Dan Patnaik
is no more. He's the author of Fire Burns Blue,
Wonderful book chronicling the not so glory days of a
men's cricket, the struggles that they had to go through,
and a lot more. I mean it's inspirational as well,
and he co wroted with Karnia Kisha, who Annia mentioned
is also a journalist. I've been covering the sport when
(10:27):
not many Dad, So yeah, I mean, if you're able
to get a hold of that book, completely recommend that
we'll mention this in the show notes as well.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Annya.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Just probably not the high that we want to discuss,
but just briefly your playing days. I know you, I
think retired twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, that.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
You remember twenty twenty actually.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Okay, yeah, I remember reading your blog post.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Is just didn't remember when it was so just that period.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
And for someone who's in the domestic setup now, could
you contrast the two things. I'm asking this with a
sense of WBL as well thrown in there, just the
security and like how different it was for you. And
since you're on the other side now working with a
lot of youngsters, we'll get to that in a little bit.
It's a sense of difference that what's been like in
the last couple of years and what can happen because
(11:16):
of this World Cup.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Way, just to clarify, so are we contrasting my playing
time to the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Or yeah, I mean just towards the fag end of
your career. I mean we're already starting to see changes
and how it's been from the other side the last
couple of years, and also like just looking for how
it can change at that level for someone in the
domestic setup. At one point there was no clarity on
whether there is a future so to speak, right, I mean,
if you're not talking thirty forty years back, we were
talking ten years back. I remember speaking to you just
(11:44):
before the WBL and you mentioned how different things were,
So just contrast those little three faces.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, it's I think the change again has been quite quick,
even at a domestic level. So when I started playing,
for example, you couldn't make a living off playing cricket.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I still don't like playing domestic cricket. I still don't
think you can make a living off it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But a lot of the time you would have players
drop out of the domestic system once they hit nineteen
twenty like because people would go in search of stability
which was a better paying job, and you couldn't do that.
One of my favorite examples actually to give was so
Goha Sultana is a leftime spinner from Hyderbads.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She's played for the country.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It took her ten years of playing domestic cricket to
buy a two wheeler. And I remember Mohammad Sidad played
one season of domestic cricket and was able to buy a.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Second hand car.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's insane, Like yeah, for the first I think ten
twelve years of my playing career, I don't think you
could really you weren't making much money at all. So
people were playing domestic cricket purely out of passion. And
then if they found an employer who was willing to
give a hell of a lot of leave, which was
very there, you would continue playing or you joined Indian Railways.
(13:00):
I think towards the fact that the back end of
my career, of course match fees increased. Domestically you had
more opportunities. So police, I think like a lot more
people joined police force. I think Herman and Sushma were
given jobs post the twenty seventeen World Cup, so there
were more opportunities outside of railways, a living and to
(13:22):
continue playing. But I think after I start playing was
when match fees drastically increased. Domestically, it's still not anywhere
close to what the men make, but I think there's
still an opportunity to make a decent no, I wouldn't
say living, but take decent money playing domestic cricket, and
there's more incentive to stay in it, which is why
I think even the standards domestically having have improved much
(13:47):
quicker because you have players who have the opportunity to
invest in their games because they make better money. So
I think that way things have improved very very quickly
over the last three or four years. A lot of
that impact, of course, is the performance of the national team,
like the ripple effect of people seeing how India's done internationally.
(14:09):
Of course the WPL in the last three years has also.
The trickle down effects is massive because of course there's
they're more opportunities to make a living, but also to
be seen almost right, previously, it was just playing for
India and if you didn't play for India, like for
me at least, you were almost a failure because you know,
you couldn't do anything else. But now with the WPL
(14:29):
there are more opportunities hopefully, but as the league expands,
there'll be you know, definitely more opportunities for more players.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But I think right.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Now there's motivation, for one, for senior players to stay
in the game. I think that's been one of our
biggest issues. If you go back, say eight to ten years,
you'd have a lot of twenty four to twenty five
year olds dropping out of the system because there was
no opportunity to make a living and of course.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You know women in India get married.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That'd be pressure to get married, they'd be p should
find a more stable job. So you'd have a lot
of twenty four to twenty five year olds dropping out
of the game. And you think of that age and
that's generally when most cricketers are hitting their peak. They
understand their game, they understand, you know, their style, and
because women play so little domestically, by that point, you
(15:20):
would have potentially had a number of years under your
belt to actually, you know, probably be at the very
best cricketer you could be, or at least nearing your peak.
And if you're losing a lot of players around that age,
at the same time, state teams are having to rebuild,
and that you know would impact the national team in
terms of the talent and the level of competitiveness at
(15:42):
domestic level. So I think that way, just one increased
match these has meant more people are staying in the
game for longer, which is very, very important. I think
the strength of our domestic system is are the senior players,
and the WPL has obviously given motivation to those players
to stay the game. Again, I'm taking her example again,
(16:02):
but Kaha Sultana getting picked for up Warriors at thirty five,
Asha Shaubna getting picked for RCB and then getting picked
for India over thirty those are not things that we
saw previously. Most of the time, once you hit twenty four,
people would look beyond you and then you'd obviously not
have the motivation to stay in the system continue playing,
(16:23):
which is what happened to me and which is what
happened to a lot of players from my badge. But
I think now with the WPL, with increased match fees,
more playing opportunities, you see more people. Of course, there
are lots of young girls playing, so with under fifteens
and under nineteens, you have a lot more young girls playing,
(16:44):
but you have more people filtering through to the senior
teams and staying there for longer, which I think is
just as important as having a very strong school like
under fifteen under nineteen program. That's very important to have
a strong junior level program. But two, make sure that
those players are transitioning upwards and staying there is just
(17:04):
as important, and I think over the last two or
three years we've were getting that right. There is of
course a lot more work that we need to do,
but I think that is what is impacting the national team.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It's just a couple of things what you said. I mean,
some of the things are kind of staggering. But while
it was, you know, so tough to I think making
a living is a very parfish thing, but just to
play I think would have been tough, so for you,
for a lot of your contemporaries, I'm guessing a couple
of them would be in the team right now. What
(17:38):
kept you guys going? Like it would have been easier
perhaps for you to just kind of leave everything and
you know, find a stable career. So what was it
that kept you going? Especially because a World Cup win
at that point would have seemed like a far fetched
dream as well, right.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think, look, honestly, every player is going to as
far fetched as it is. You're always going to believe
that something is possible. But I think you know, we've
seen and a lot of stories have emerged from this
World Cup as well, but been very lucky with very
supportive parents and parents who didn't pressure their daughters to
(18:17):
go off and get married or find a more stable
job or you know. I think that's kind of where
a lot of why a lot of players from my
generation or my contemporary stayed in it was simply because
we had supportive people around us, very supportive families, and
of course we had very far fetched dreams of being
able to achieve the impossible. But I think that's where
(18:40):
it stems from. And you see a lot of the
players in this team as well have credited their parents,
for one like, for encouraging them and for actually believing in.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Their dreams just as much as they did.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So it starts from there, and I think that's the
story of one hundred percent of female athletes in India,
well not one hundred percent, but many any female athletes
in India that you have, whether it's families or whether
it's friends, it's someone around you who's believed in you
and encouraged you and protected you from all the barbs
coming from you know, the wider society and sometimes from
(19:13):
your family as well. But I think it's just having
that support and having someone who believes in you, and
then just being foolish enough to go after it. And
then eventually, if not you you live your dream vicariously
through someone else.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
That's beautiful and mean. You've torused upon a lot of
broad based topics. I just wanted to go a little
more specific. You just mentioned briefly that you know your
contemporaries were doing well right now. One of them is
an You've seen her closely at DC, played with her
domestically as well, just through her journey. If you could
(19:48):
illustrate what it was like to navigate these tricky faces
and now sort of see the rewards, the far and
the reason I picked heurn that these because, I mean,
we've heard a lot about all the playing squad and
all that, or that he didn't to play a match
in the tournament, but she'd had very significant role to
play as Jimmy rolled us all after that semi final
and know how she was a strong support because she
also understands what it takes to go through all that.
(20:10):
So just through this particular players presums what it was
like to navigate all that and to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I actually think her career is probably the perfect example
of how the game and the opportunities provided through the
game have changed over the years. So she came in
obviously as a precociously talented twelve year old, into the
Hyderabad setup and broke into the senior team that very year,
and again her mother was supremely supportive of her, would
(20:40):
come to the ground every day, drop her and you
know if she was kind of the backbone or she
is the backbone of her career. And Anti played for
Hyderbads for I think six or seven years before she
had the opportunity to join railways and railways basically a
government job, you know, she took that up and that
was her opportunity to find stability. So she had a
(21:03):
steady income coming through and that allowed her to then
chase her dream. For a lot of cricketers, I think
until now with the WPL, but a lot of cricketers
played almost to secure a railway job and once you
got that, you knew that you were secure.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And I think it was very similar for her mother.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I remember was so relieved after she secured that job
because you know, not a very financially stable family. And
then she got this job, and of course she wanted
to play for the country and she wanted to chase
those dreams, and through playing for Indian Railways, she did
get picked for India in twenty eighteen, and after that
her career somewhat stagnated. While she was with the Indian team,
(21:43):
she wasn't getting as many playing opportunities with Indian Railways
because again that's a squad that's full of India players.
You had r Uka Singh, Takur, you are Magnasingh also
who at that time was playing for India, so a
lot of fast bowlers who were representing the country, and
she wasn't able to consistently break into that eleven. Then
the WPL came around and she found security through that contract.
(22:05):
I mean, she also got dropped from the Indian team
at the time, but she had the WPL contract, which
meant that she felt like she could take a risk
and leave the railway job because she had the security
at least three years of a WPL contract, and the
fact that she was able to take that risk because
there was no way that she would take that risk.
(22:25):
Without the WPL coming around, she would have continued to
play for Railways. She would have continued to hold down
that job and probably would have disappeared like many other
players before her. You think of Shublakshmi Sharma was another
fast bowler who played for Indian Railways. She was from
Shapin career stagnated. I mean, there are a lot of
players who just disappeared once they'd gotten dropped because they
(22:49):
couldn't take a risk of leaving a job that was
giving them stability, and I think the WPL coming in allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Her to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
And you've seen after her taking the risk and moving
to Kerala, the comeback and everything. Of course, the WPL
and her performances for Delhi Capitals played a big part
in that, but I think what she did in domestic
cricket actually played a bigger role in her comeback, and
she was able to shift states simply because she left
her job, and she was able to leave her job
because of the WPL. So I think her career in
(23:18):
many ways is a great not advertisement, I'm not sure
what I would use, but it's a great example of
how the game has shifted and how opportunities to earn
have shifted over the years. And now, of course she
has a Central contract as well, so it's not like
the Central contract is huge money, but there is some
level of stability and there are more earning opportunities. I
(23:41):
think there are just more opportunities for players to show
what they're capable of and come back some more possible now,
which was not something that you would see earlier. So yeah,
to see I think her career is a great example
of how the game has moved over the years. But yeah,
just to see her succeed be part of that team,
and I think what Jemmy spoke of really well was
(24:02):
just how every single squad member has contributed to that success,
whether they've taken the field or not, and in most
games or reality was on the field fielding at some point.
But it's just a great example of how that team
has kind of come together, pulled together and pulled this
off as a unit. It's not just been one person's
(24:22):
effort that has pulled them over the line, but I
think each one of them have contributed in different ways
at different times.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Beautiful, and I was hoping that would be the sort
of answer I got from you, and I mentioned Anti,
thank you so much for that.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Just a last couple of questions before we wrap quickly.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Or how muchever you want, could you talk to us
about equal you I mean, since you're working on that
for our listeners. I mean, this is a project that
was started off when Pradan, former Indian pacer who's gone
on to do many different things within the game currently
with the ICC as part of the women's cricket program
there and Cartnia Kesha Van Sidan Putnak, who we've spoken
(24:59):
about already as authors of the Fire Burns Blue, they've
put a report together on women's cricket. Exactly when it
was the first version that came out maybe twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Or so, twenty twenty, twenty.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Twenty, yeah, and it spoke a lot about India's domestic setup,
how much before the women's IPL became a reality, on
how that was a missing link in the setup, the
pay parity issues and all that.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
So that the original report was.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
That and Anania is now in charge of taking it
forward with Goho Sports just a little bit about that
work you do with Equal You and the sort of
changes that you've seen through that program since you've started
being a part of it. I actually absolutely love that
section on the website that says guide for girls how.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
To become a cricket in India.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I think that's probably a very significant part of what
you're trying to achieve.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Through the Equal Here report, Snaihill and Karine I think
got in touch with co Sports, I mean London Comma.
They got in touch with co Sports and essentially launched
a scholarship program for female cricketers. And the idea behind
that is to help find ways to ease transition domestically
from junior to senior level, from emerging to a lite level,
(26:08):
and also help like expose young players to high performance
environments early because if you look at the way the
jump from domestic cricket to international cricket is massive, and
if you look at any of the players barring Smithy,
Mandana and potentially Deeply Shama in this current squad, if
you look at the careers of most of the players
within that team, they've all taken a couple of years
(26:31):
to get used to the demands of international cricket, the
pace of international cricket, and actually figure out their games
at that level. You look at Jemima's first couple of
years in international cricket, I don't quite remember, but her
average was around twenty three or twenty four in one
day cricket. I remember Sneerana when she walked in in
twenty fourteen got smacked for thirty thirty two runs? Was
(26:53):
it by Sophie Devine in a T twenty And she
had no idea how to come back from that.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
And it's happened a lot with young players coming into.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
International cricket that they've taken a couple of years to
figure out their games. And so actually even for me,
for example, the first time I attended in India camp,
it was a shock because I didn't know what that
level of training like strengthen conditioning was. I didn't understand
what recovery was, and it almost took me like four
(27:22):
weeks to actually get used to the rhythm of it.
And a lot of the time players because of the shock,
because of just not understanding the pace of the game
or understanding their own methods, take too long to get
used to it and because of the number of cricketers
in India, we're very impatient with players, so you know,
you just cycle on to the next one and everyone's
(27:43):
almost taking ten twelve games to get used to the
demands of the international game. So the idea behind the
program is to one of course, support players and give
them exposure to these environments, but also to help them
we've spoken a lot about this through the course of
the last half an hour, but also provide them with
the opportunity to invest in their games and invest in
(28:04):
their development because you can't make a living off playing
domestic cricket and a lot of the time players are
the primary bread winners of their families, so their match fee,
their earnings generally go to running the family. So through
the scholarship, players one not given exposure to high performance environments,
but also the financial backing that they get allows them
(28:25):
to invest in their own developments, whether it's you know,
exposure to sports science, exposure to training in different environments,
training under different coaches. So that's the idea of the
program and we've had some really some success through the program.
I think Tita Sadu was the first player who was
part of the program to graduate playing international cricket. Kashi
(28:48):
got them is another one under Ni Kasha who had
a breakout season last year schwet as RaBaD. So a
lot of people who are involved in the WPL as well,
and it's just giving them the opportunity to one invest
in their games, because I think that's very important. It's
until and unless we invest in our domestic players, we're
always going to be playing catch up to the likes
(29:09):
of Australia because you're always going to be like your
domestic players are never going to be at the level
required to be able to easily transition into international cricket.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I know the WPL, hopefully over the next three.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Or four years, will serve as that finishing school that
we need. But if you look at India's success even
just the last couple of Under nineteen World Cups, right,
we won those two Under nineteen World Cups quite easily.
I mean, I think by far the best teams in
both those World Cups. And you think of the dominance
at under nineteen level and wonder why can we not
(29:47):
replicate that at senior level Because the skill is obviously
there and I think we are by far some of
the most skilled players in the world, but in terms
of game awareness, in terms of fitness, in terms of
just understanding how far the game at senior international.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Level has moved.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I think we're very reactive and we take too long
to understand that. So, like, why can we not replicate
our success at junior level at senior level is one
of the things we're trying to figure out. And I
think just more exposure, more awareness, and just giving young
players an opportunity to invest in themselves, in their own
growth and their own development is a key to that.
(30:27):
And while the scholarship obviously cannot cover the entire ecosystem,
we hope that the ripple effects of what we're doing
with say twenty players right now will be seen and
that the WPL will accelerate that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Just a well, if it's seguay to get into what
I think our last question for you on Anya tonight,
the legacy of this when what do you hope it
will be and just so that it doesn't become like
one of those flashing of bank kind of moments in
in new cricket history, how do you see this helping
the growth of the women's sport and in what areas it's.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
A very deep question.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
My frazzle debrain may not answer very well, but obviously
one I think just encouraging more girls to participate in
play that I think the twenty seventeen World Cup did
quite well, but I think just to capitalize on this
and for more parents to encourage their girls to play.
But I think the bigger thing is I think what
(31:20):
I'd really really like to see is, yes, investment at
the top over the last couple of years has been massive.
Pay parity at the top is great, but I think
I hope that over the next year, the next couple
of years, that trickles down to domestic level, because at
the end of the day, if our domestic system is
(31:41):
not strong, victory is like this will only come once
in a blue moon. I feel like everyone's called us
the sleeping Giant for a very long time, and yes,
with the introduction of the WPL, hopefully that changes. But
I think until and unless we invest in our domestic
system and in our domestic places, and that could just
(32:01):
be as simple as increasing match fee, but I think
something like that needs to be done, because if you're
not encouraging your domestic players to stay and to continue
to play, you're always going to be playing catch up
to the next level.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So I think those are the two things that I
hope happened.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think play like more young girls playing will will
of course.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Happen, because this is such a such a big deal.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
And the thing I loved about this World Cup and
how it's been celebrated is the fact that everyone's acknowledged
the fact that this was not a victory just for
those sixteen players or the staff, that it's the work
of an entire ecosystem. It's the work of players who
came before, it's the work of journalists who came before,
it's the work of administrators, coaches, and everyone who's invested
(32:46):
in the game so far. So the understanding of that
we were standing on the shoulders of giants, But I think,
to how do we help, how do we continue to
build that hopefully that that investment that's happening at the
top trickles down is that's my biggest wish.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I think that's I think a good wish to leave
at and hope it works out. Thank you Anonia so
much for your time. It's been very insightful, especially when
you contrast outwards, say ten years ago or even five
years Ogo for that matter. Now, thanks a lot for that.
It's been great to have you here. Thanks to our
listeners for taken by and listening to us. We will
be back with the new episode of Game Time next week.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
You were listening to Express Ports by the Indian Express.
This week's show was edited and mixed by Soesh Bawar
and produced by Meshahan Bargev. If you like the show,
then do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also recommend the show to someone you think
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Speaker 5 (33:40):
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Speaker 6 (33:41):
People to get to know about us. You can also
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podcasts at Indian Express dot com.
Hello, and welcome to Express Sports podcast. You're listening to
Game Time with Me, Mihir and Vinayaka last week, and
I spent a lot of time talking about the Women's
World Cup when India's wonderful triumph. Unfortunately or fortunately for
all you listeners, and I will be doing it again.
But very fortunately we are joined by someone who is
(00:25):
the expert at that subject, someone's played at a very
high level and knows women's cricket and the entire journey
of women's cricket better than most of us, A Pengron.
We are very glad to have you here now for
our listeners. Anonya has played for Hyderabad and India during
her career. She is the program lead at CO Sports
(00:45):
Foundation for the Equal You program and you might have
seen her at the auction table for Deli Capitals during
the Women's Premier League more recently so she's had all
roles including a media person.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Ananya, thank you so much for that introduction and for
having me. I feel like you've put a hell of
a lot of pressure on me now to sound like
I know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
But hopefully I'm able to do that.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Oh, I think I can safely say that when can
I numb it to a name? Whenever easier, We make
this podcast just sort of that. We just make it
sound that we know what we are talking about, so
you'll feel right at home, right.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
I just told her before we got onto the podcast
that me and I are probably under more pressure than
she is.
Speaker 5 (01:29):
So yeah, but thanks Annya for doing this.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I know you've had some crazy travel, so I appreciate
you recording this at your convenience.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
So yeah, let's get to it.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
So we start. You know, we're recording this on a Friday.
It's been five days since India lifted the World Cup.
Has it sunk in for someone who's followed the sport
through its lowest of lows to now the highest of highs?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Interesting question? Has it sunk in? I think a little bit.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I remember, like the afternoon after the final come back
from Homby to Bang Law, and I had taken a
nap in the afternoon and I got up thinking, wait,
did yesterday actually happen?
Speaker 3 (02:09):
And it felt like such a dream.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
I think it still partially feels a little bit like
a dream. Of course, you're seeing the players go back
home and receive these incredible welcomes the cash prizes being
announced by governments and all that. Has it sunk in,
I think a little bit, but I think it'll take
time to actually understand how big of an achievement this
actually is.
Speaker 5 (02:30):
So anyone you were at the venue? Is it for
the final?
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
I was at the venue lovely, So just talk to
us at those moments.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
I mean, first things first, near forty thousand doneout, which
actually wasn't surprising for those who followed women's cricket at
due partial that famous sold out sign from a couple
of years back is still fresh. Just what was that
mostly like and for you to see that in front
of your own eyes, Just describe those final moments and
that they in general for us.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I think, yeah, it was very very surreal, to be honest.
I walked into the ground a little late. Obviously the
start was delayed because of the rain, and I actually
think that helped fill up the stadium for the very
start of the game. But to walk in and just
see stands packed for a women's game, having watched a
lot of international cricket where there have been empty stands
(03:20):
and barely I mean no crowd outside of the families
of players, so to actually see a jam packed stadium
with a sea of blue.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I cannot recall many many green shirts.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
There were probably one, I mean one or two in
the stand that I was sitting in, but yeah, it
was just surreal to see that, to be part of it,
and just the general excitement around the game, to see
the number of kids who turned up. And the thing
that I loved about watching the final in the stands
was just the fact that everyone seemed quite encouraging. It
(03:54):
was a very wholesome environment and everyone was appreciated both teams.
Of course, it did get very quiet when Laura Wilfartt
was batting as well as she was, and when she
put on a partnership with Sunee and then Annie Ducks
in the middle, but I think it was just incredible
to be part of that. I briefly chatted with Kardnya Kishev,
(04:14):
who was also there, a very senior journalist, and we
were standing there thinking, you know, who would have ever
thought this was possible ten years ago, twelve years ago,
twenty thirteen, when the World Cup was in India. It
was such a stark difference, like no one turned up,
like there were very few people in the stands, very
few journalists, but.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Here the press box I assume was full.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
The stands were definitely full, and it just felt like
such a vindication of you know, maybe we've actually made it.
But yeah, it was surreal to see how things panned out.
It felt a little like a dream. But I honestly
couldn't hold back the tears when the national anthem was
playing in the beginning, just to see the number of
people there.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And it was such an incredible atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And then of course at the end when they actually
won again, I found myself balling. But and it was
less about the result and more about I mean, yes,
the result was incredible, but it was also just about
how far we've come as a sport.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
And just to see the people who were.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Their former players, senior runalists, administrators and everyone, so many
people who've played such a big part in the growth
of the women's game in India. To see everyone almost
come together and see such a historic moment unfold, who
was quite something either.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
You mentioned the twenty thirteen World Cup, and I agree
the contrast couldn't be stark because I'll raised my hand
up and I admit that I haven't really followed women's
quick as closely as passionately as you guys have. But
the two World Cups there, fortunately I had the chance
to kind of, you know, cover both. And I remember
the twenty thirteen World Cup, some matches in Bombay were
(05:54):
shifted from the Wankai Stadium because they wanted to host
their run Gi Trophy finals there, and the move some
matches to the MiG ground in Bandrive, if I recall
it properly, and it was such a bizarre situation because
the road leading up to the ground was half dug
up because roads in Bombay are always dug up, and
there were no stands of course at MiG, so there
(06:17):
were no spectators. So all you had were like five
six MiG club members, some two or three journalists and
the people I think taking care of the ground. And
that's about it. And if I recall the final, was
it Breboron right, and there was more excitement among the
media persons and a lot of us were guilty because
(06:38):
again my memory doesn't fail me. It was when Mitchell
Stark was in a relationship with Elisa Heally and he
dropped by to say hi to her or something, and
a lot of people watching that match were more excited
for that moment rather than the whole of the finals.
So from there to what we saw in Mumbai last Sunday,
that is a big journey, I think. And how do
(07:01):
you look at it? Because you stuck by the sport
when most of the country did not believe in it.
So for you, how has this journey been To see
it from a very close.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Circle, I think, well, twenty thirteen, obviously I was playing,
so sticking by it was because I wanted to and I.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Had big dreams.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But I think for me, from the very beginning, I
told myself that I would find a way to get
women's cricket on the map, and that was either by
playing and being at that time of Metali Raditulunguswami or
Elise Perry, or I would write about the game so
much that that people and talk about it, that it
would kind of be in the minds and hearts of
the Indian public. And I think I was really lucky
(07:42):
along the way to find people like Siddhanta Partna, like
garden A Keishavsniel Bradhan, people who encouraged that side of
me and who were also very passionate about the women's game.
So to see it kind of go from almost being
a bit of a side show, I mean, actually it
felt I think initially like women's cricket was in the
BCCI fold because it had to be, not because people
(08:04):
wanted it to be. But I think the players and
the people the storytellers involved just kept at it and
kept pushing the agenda in some ways, and like the
players obviously kept putting up good performances, and journalists around
kept telling their stories and shedding light on all the
amazing things that these players were doing. So to see
(08:27):
it go from not many people wanting to watch, not
many people really caring about the actual sport itself, to
where it is now has been quite fascinating, I think.
Honest to God, I don't think I thought it would
get here weirdly as quickly as it has. I mean,
I know it's taken a really long time, but to
see like to think that it was only twelve years ago,
(08:49):
that twenty thirteen World Cup, it theoretically doesn't seem that
long ago. It has felt like a very long time.
But I think in the larger scheme of saying twelve
years is not that much. But I think it's down
to the people who've played, the people who've administered and
actually really cared, but also a lot of journalists who've
stuck by this team told a lot of incredible stories
(09:12):
about the players. And I think after India lifted the
trophy on Sunday, one of the people who I'm sure
a lot of people have spoken about, but one of
the people that I was thinking about, I know, garden
it was as well was Sadhanta and how he was
such a champion of the game and people like there
are so many people like him who've constantly told the
(09:33):
stories of players, of administrators and people who've pushed the
women's game forward.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And I honestly don't.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Know how to put into words how it's made me feel,
but to be part of it, a small, tiny little
part of it.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
Feels kind of satisfying to see where they've come.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
But why I stuck with it was simply because I
don't know, I'm a bit of a cricket geek, and
the act this always felt like it's women like cricket
has always felt like home to me.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Yeah, yeah, very very lovely. Aya.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Just for readers who might not be awares, Dan Patnaik
is no more. He's the author of Fire Burns Blue,
Wonderful book chronicling the not so glory days of a
men's cricket, the struggles that they had to go through,
and a lot more. I mean it's inspirational as well,
and he co wroted with Karnia Kisha, who Annia mentioned
is also a journalist. I've been covering the sport when
(10:27):
not many Dad, So yeah, I mean, if you're able
to get a hold of that book, completely recommend that
we'll mention this in the show notes as well.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Annya.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Just probably not the high that we want to discuss,
but just briefly your playing days. I know you, I
think retired twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, that.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
You remember twenty twenty actually.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Okay, yeah, I remember reading your blog post.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
Is just didn't remember when it was so just that period.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
And for someone who's in the domestic setup now, could
you contrast the two things. I'm asking this with a
sense of WBL as well thrown in there, just the
security and like how different it was for you. And
since you're on the other side now working with a
lot of youngsters, we'll get to that in a little bit.
It's a sense of difference that what's been like in
the last couple of years and what can happen because
(11:16):
of this World Cup.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Way, just to clarify, so are we contrasting my playing
time to the last couple of years.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Or yeah, I mean just towards the fag end of
your career. I mean we're already starting to see changes
and how it's been from the other side the last
couple of years, and also like just looking for how
it can change at that level for someone in the
domestic setup. At one point there was no clarity on
whether there is a future so to speak, right, I mean,
if you're not talking thirty forty years back, we were
talking ten years back. I remember speaking to you just
(11:44):
before the WBL and you mentioned how different things were,
So just contrast those little three faces.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, it's I think the change again has been quite quick,
even at a domestic level. So when I started playing,
for example, you couldn't make a living off playing cricket.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I still don't like playing domestic cricket. I still don't
think you can make a living off it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
But a lot of the time you would have players
drop out of the domestic system once they hit nineteen
twenty like because people would go in search of stability
which was a better paying job, and you couldn't do that.
One of my favorite examples actually to give was so
Goha Sultana is a leftime spinner from Hyderbads.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
She's played for the country.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It took her ten years of playing domestic cricket to
buy a two wheeler. And I remember Mohammad Sidad played
one season of domestic cricket and was able to buy a.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Second hand car.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That's insane, Like yeah, for the first I think ten
twelve years of my playing career, I don't think you
could really you weren't making much money at all. So
people were playing domestic cricket purely out of passion. And
then if they found an employer who was willing to
give a hell of a lot of leave, which was
very there, you would continue playing or you joined Indian Railways.
(13:00):
I think towards the fact that the back end of
my career, of course match fees increased. Domestically you had
more opportunities. So police, I think like a lot more
people joined police force. I think Herman and Sushma were
given jobs post the twenty seventeen World Cup, so there
were more opportunities outside of railways, a living and to
(13:22):
continue playing. But I think after I start playing was
when match fees drastically increased. Domestically, it's still not anywhere
close to what the men make, but I think there's
still an opportunity to make a decent no, I wouldn't
say living, but take decent money playing domestic cricket, and
there's more incentive to stay in it, which is why
I think even the standards domestically having have improved much
(13:47):
quicker because you have players who have the opportunity to
invest in their games because they make better money. So
I think that way things have improved very very quickly
over the last three or four years. A lot of
that impact, of course, is the performance of the national team,
like the ripple effect of people seeing how India's done internationally.
(14:09):
Of course the WPL in the last three years has also.
The trickle down effects is massive because of course there's
they're more opportunities to make a living, but also to
be seen almost right, previously, it was just playing for
India and if you didn't play for India, like for
me at least, you were almost a failure because you know,
you couldn't do anything else. But now with the WPL
(14:29):
there are more opportunities hopefully, but as the league expands,
there'll be you know, definitely more opportunities for more players.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
But I think right.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Now there's motivation, for one, for senior players to stay
in the game. I think that's been one of our
biggest issues. If you go back, say eight to ten years,
you'd have a lot of twenty four to twenty five
year olds dropping out of the system because there was
no opportunity to make a living and of course.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
You know women in India get married.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That'd be pressure to get married, they'd be p should
find a more stable job. So you'd have a lot
of twenty four to twenty five year olds dropping out
of the game. And you think of that age and
that's generally when most cricketers are hitting their peak. They
understand their game, they understand, you know, their style, and
because women play so little domestically, by that point, you
(15:20):
would have potentially had a number of years under your
belt to actually, you know, probably be at the very
best cricketer you could be, or at least nearing your peak.
And if you're losing a lot of players around that age,
at the same time, state teams are having to rebuild,
and that you know would impact the national team in
terms of the talent and the level of competitiveness at
(15:42):
domestic level. So I think that way, just one increased
match these has meant more people are staying in the
game for longer, which is very, very important. I think
the strength of our domestic system is are the senior players,
and the WPL has obviously given motivation to those players
to stay the game. Again, I'm taking her example again,
(16:02):
but Kaha Sultana getting picked for up Warriors at thirty five,
Asha Shaubna getting picked for RCB and then getting picked
for India over thirty those are not things that we
saw previously. Most of the time, once you hit twenty four,
people would look beyond you and then you'd obviously not
have the motivation to stay in the system continue playing,
(16:23):
which is what happened to me and which is what
happened to a lot of players from my badge. But
I think now with the WPL, with increased match fees,
more playing opportunities, you see more people. Of course, there
are lots of young girls playing, so with under fifteens
and under nineteens, you have a lot more young girls playing,
(16:44):
but you have more people filtering through to the senior
teams and staying there for longer, which I think is
just as important as having a very strong school like
under fifteen under nineteen program. That's very important to have
a strong junior level program. But two, make sure that
those players are transitioning upwards and staying there is just
(17:04):
as important, and I think over the last two or
three years we've were getting that right. There is of
course a lot more work that we need to do,
but I think that is what is impacting the national team.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It's just a couple of things what you said. I mean,
some of the things are kind of staggering. But while
it was, you know, so tough to I think making
a living is a very parfish thing, but just to
play I think would have been tough, so for you,
for a lot of your contemporaries, I'm guessing a couple
of them would be in the team right now. What
(17:38):
kept you guys going? Like it would have been easier
perhaps for you to just kind of leave everything and
you know, find a stable career. So what was it
that kept you going? Especially because a World Cup win
at that point would have seemed like a far fetched
dream as well, right.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think, look, honestly, every player is going to as
far fetched as it is. You're always going to believe
that something is possible. But I think you know, we've
seen and a lot of stories have emerged from this
World Cup as well, but been very lucky with very
supportive parents and parents who didn't pressure their daughters to
(18:17):
go off and get married or find a more stable
job or you know. I think that's kind of where
a lot of why a lot of players from my
generation or my contemporary stayed in it was simply because
we had supportive people around us, very supportive families, and
of course we had very far fetched dreams of being
able to achieve the impossible. But I think that's where
(18:40):
it stems from. And you see a lot of the
players in this team as well have credited their parents,
for one like, for encouraging them and for actually believing in.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Their dreams just as much as they did.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So it starts from there, and I think that's the
story of one hundred percent of female athletes in India,
well not one hundred percent, but many any female athletes
in India that you have, whether it's families or whether
it's friends, it's someone around you who's believed in you
and encouraged you and protected you from all the barbs
coming from you know, the wider society and sometimes from
(19:13):
your family as well. But I think it's just having
that support and having someone who believes in you, and
then just being foolish enough to go after it. And
then eventually, if not you you live your dream vicariously
through someone else.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
That's beautiful and mean. You've torused upon a lot of
broad based topics. I just wanted to go a little
more specific. You just mentioned briefly that you know your
contemporaries were doing well right now. One of them is
an You've seen her closely at DC, played with her
domestically as well, just through her journey. If you could
(19:48):
illustrate what it was like to navigate these tricky faces
and now sort of see the rewards, the far and
the reason I picked heurn that these because, I mean,
we've heard a lot about all the playing squad and
all that, or that he didn't to play a match
in the tournament, but she'd had very significant role to
play as Jimmy rolled us all after that semi final
and know how she was a strong support because she
also understands what it takes to go through all that.
(20:10):
So just through this particular players presums what it was
like to navigate all that and to get to this point.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I actually think her career is probably the perfect example
of how the game and the opportunities provided through the
game have changed over the years. So she came in
obviously as a precociously talented twelve year old, into the
Hyderabad setup and broke into the senior team that very year,
and again her mother was supremely supportive of her, would
(20:40):
come to the ground every day, drop her and you
know if she was kind of the backbone or she
is the backbone of her career. And Anti played for
Hyderbads for I think six or seven years before she
had the opportunity to join railways and railways basically a
government job, you know, she took that up and that
was her opportunity to find stability. So she had a
(21:03):
steady income coming through and that allowed her to then
chase her dream. For a lot of cricketers, I think
until now with the WPL, but a lot of cricketers
played almost to secure a railway job and once you
got that, you knew that you were secure.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
And I think it was very similar for her mother.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I remember was so relieved after she secured that job
because you know, not a very financially stable family. And
then she got this job, and of course she wanted
to play for the country and she wanted to chase
those dreams, and through playing for Indian Railways, she did
get picked for India in twenty eighteen, and after that
her career somewhat stagnated. While she was with the Indian team,
(21:43):
she wasn't getting as many playing opportunities with Indian Railways
because again that's a squad that's full of India players.
You had r Uka Singh, Takur, you are Magnasingh also
who at that time was playing for India, so a
lot of fast bowlers who were representing the country, and
she wasn't able to consistently break into that eleven. Then
the WPL came around and she found security through that contract.
(22:05):
I mean, she also got dropped from the Indian team
at the time, but she had the WPL contract, which
meant that she felt like she could take a risk
and leave the railway job because she had the security
at least three years of a WPL contract, and the
fact that she was able to take that risk because
there was no way that she would take that risk.
(22:25):
Without the WPL coming around, she would have continued to
play for Railways. She would have continued to hold down
that job and probably would have disappeared like many other
players before her. You think of Shublakshmi Sharma was another
fast bowler who played for Indian Railways. She was from
Shapin career stagnated. I mean, there are a lot of
players who just disappeared once they'd gotten dropped because they
(22:49):
couldn't take a risk of leaving a job that was
giving them stability, and I think the WPL coming in allowed.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Her to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
And you've seen after her taking the risk and moving
to Kerala, the comeback and everything. Of course, the WPL
and her performances for Delhi Capitals played a big part
in that, but I think what she did in domestic
cricket actually played a bigger role in her comeback, and
she was able to shift states simply because she left
her job, and she was able to leave her job
because of the WPL. So I think her career in
(23:18):
many ways is a great not advertisement, I'm not sure
what I would use, but it's a great example of
how the game has shifted and how opportunities to earn
have shifted over the years. And now, of course she
has a Central contract as well, so it's not like
the Central contract is huge money, but there is some
level of stability and there are more earning opportunities. I
(23:41):
think there are just more opportunities for players to show
what they're capable of and come back some more possible now,
which was not something that you would see earlier. So yeah,
to see I think her career is a great example
of how the game has moved over the years. But yeah,
just to see her succeed be part of that team,
and I think what Jemmy spoke of really well was
(24:02):
just how every single squad member has contributed to that success,
whether they've taken the field or not, and in most
games or reality was on the field fielding at some point.
But it's just a great example of how that team
has kind of come together, pulled together and pulled this
off as a unit. It's not just been one person's
(24:22):
effort that has pulled them over the line, but I
think each one of them have contributed in different ways
at different times.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Beautiful, and I was hoping that would be the sort
of answer I got from you, and I mentioned Anti,
thank you so much for that.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Just a last couple of questions before we wrap quickly.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
Or how muchever you want, could you talk to us
about equal you I mean, since you're working on that
for our listeners. I mean, this is a project that
was started off when Pradan, former Indian pacer who's gone
on to do many different things within the game currently
with the ICC as part of the women's cricket program
there and Cartnia Kesha Van Sidan Putnak, who we've spoken
(24:59):
about already as authors of the Fire Burns Blue, they've
put a report together on women's cricket. Exactly when it
was the first version that came out maybe twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Or so, twenty twenty, twenty.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Twenty, yeah, and it spoke a lot about India's domestic setup,
how much before the women's IPL became a reality, on
how that was a missing link in the setup, the
pay parity issues and all that.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
So that the original report was.
Speaker 4 (25:23):
That and Anania is now in charge of taking it
forward with Goho Sports just a little bit about that
work you do with Equal You and the sort of
changes that you've seen through that program since you've started
being a part of it. I actually absolutely love that
section on the website that says guide for girls how.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
To become a cricket in India.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
I think that's probably a very significant part of what
you're trying to achieve.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Through the Equal Here report, Snaihill and Karine I think
got in touch with co Sports, I mean London Comma.
They got in touch with co Sports and essentially launched
a scholarship program for female cricketers. And the idea behind
that is to help find ways to ease transition domestically
from junior to senior level, from emerging to a lite level,
(26:08):
and also help like expose young players to high performance
environments early because if you look at the way the
jump from domestic cricket to international cricket is massive, and
if you look at any of the players barring Smithy,
Mandana and potentially Deeply Shama in this current squad, if
you look at the careers of most of the players
within that team, they've all taken a couple of years
(26:31):
to get used to the demands of international cricket, the
pace of international cricket, and actually figure out their games
at that level. You look at Jemima's first couple of
years in international cricket, I don't quite remember, but her
average was around twenty three or twenty four in one
day cricket. I remember Sneerana when she walked in in
twenty fourteen got smacked for thirty thirty two runs? Was
(26:53):
it by Sophie Devine in a T twenty And she
had no idea how to come back from that.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
And it's happened a lot with young players coming into.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
International cricket that they've taken a couple of years to
figure out their games. And so actually even for me,
for example, the first time I attended in India camp,
it was a shock because I didn't know what that
level of training like strengthen conditioning was. I didn't understand
what recovery was, and it almost took me like four
(27:22):
weeks to actually get used to the rhythm of it.
And a lot of the time players because of the shock,
because of just not understanding the pace of the game
or understanding their own methods, take too long to get
used to it and because of the number of cricketers
in India, we're very impatient with players, so you know,
you just cycle on to the next one and everyone's
(27:43):
almost taking ten twelve games to get used to the
demands of the international game. So the idea behind the
program is to one of course, support players and give
them exposure to these environments, but also to help them
we've spoken a lot about this through the course of
the last half an hour, but also provide them with
the opportunity to invest in their games and invest in
(28:04):
their development because you can't make a living off playing
domestic cricket and a lot of the time players are
the primary bread winners of their families, so their match fee,
their earnings generally go to running the family. So through
the scholarship, players one not given exposure to high performance environments,
but also the financial backing that they get allows them
(28:25):
to invest in their own developments, whether it's you know,
exposure to sports science, exposure to training in different environments,
training under different coaches. So that's the idea of the
program and we've had some really some success through the program.
I think Tita Sadu was the first player who was
part of the program to graduate playing international cricket. Kashi
(28:48):
got them is another one under Ni Kasha who had
a breakout season last year schwet as RaBaD. So a
lot of people who are involved in the WPL as well,
and it's just giving them the opportunity to one invest
in their games, because I think that's very important. It's
until and unless we invest in our domestic players, we're
always going to be playing catch up to the likes
(29:09):
of Australia because you're always going to be like your
domestic players are never going to be at the level
required to be able to easily transition into international cricket.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I know the WPL, hopefully over the next three.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Or four years, will serve as that finishing school that
we need. But if you look at India's success even
just the last couple of Under nineteen World Cups, right,
we won those two Under nineteen World Cups quite easily.
I mean, I think by far the best teams in
both those World Cups. And you think of the dominance
at under nineteen level and wonder why can we not
(29:47):
replicate that at senior level Because the skill is obviously
there and I think we are by far some of
the most skilled players in the world, but in terms
of game awareness, in terms of fitness, in terms of
just understanding how far the game at senior international.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Level has moved.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I think we're very reactive and we take too long
to understand that. So, like, why can we not replicate
our success at junior level at senior level is one
of the things we're trying to figure out. And I
think just more exposure, more awareness, and just giving young
players an opportunity to invest in themselves, in their own
growth and their own development is a key to that.
(30:27):
And while the scholarship obviously cannot cover the entire ecosystem,
we hope that the ripple effects of what we're doing
with say twenty players right now will be seen and
that the WPL will accelerate that.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Just a well, if it's seguay to get into what
I think our last question for you on Anya tonight,
the legacy of this when what do you hope it
will be and just so that it doesn't become like
one of those flashing of bank kind of moments in
in new cricket history, how do you see this helping
the growth of the women's sport and in what areas it's.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
A very deep question.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
My frazzle debrain may not answer very well, but obviously
one I think just encouraging more girls to participate in
play that I think the twenty seventeen World Cup did
quite well, but I think just to capitalize on this
and for more parents to encourage their girls to play.
But I think the bigger thing is I think what
(31:20):
I'd really really like to see is, yes, investment at
the top over the last couple of years has been massive.
Pay parity at the top is great, but I think
I hope that over the next year, the next couple
of years, that trickles down to domestic level, because at
the end of the day, if our domestic system is
(31:41):
not strong, victory is like this will only come once
in a blue moon. I feel like everyone's called us
the sleeping Giant for a very long time, and yes,
with the introduction of the WPL, hopefully that changes. But
I think until and unless we invest in our domestic
system and in our domestic places, and that could just
(32:01):
be as simple as increasing match fee, but I think
something like that needs to be done, because if you're
not encouraging your domestic players to stay and to continue
to play, you're always going to be playing catch up
to the next level.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So I think those are the two things that I
hope happened.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I think play like more young girls playing will will
of course.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Happen, because this is such a such a big deal.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
And the thing I loved about this World Cup and
how it's been celebrated is the fact that everyone's acknowledged
the fact that this was not a victory just for
those sixteen players or the staff, that it's the work
of an entire ecosystem. It's the work of players who
came before, it's the work of journalists who came before,
it's the work of administrators, coaches, and everyone who's invested
(32:46):
in the game so far. So the understanding of that
we were standing on the shoulders of giants, But I think,
to how do we help, how do we continue to
build that hopefully that that investment that's happening at the
top trickles down is that's my biggest wish.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I think that's I think a good wish to leave
at and hope it works out. Thank you Anonia so
much for your time. It's been very insightful, especially when
you contrast outwards, say ten years ago or even five
years Ogo for that matter. Now, thanks a lot for that.
It's been great to have you here. Thanks to our
listeners for taken by and listening to us. We will
be back with the new episode of Game Time next week.
Speaker 6 (33:24):
You were listening to Express Ports by the Indian Express.
This week's show was edited and mixed by Soesh Bawar
and produced by Meshahan Bargev. If you like the show,
then do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts.
You can also recommend the show to someone you think
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Speaker 5 (33:40):
It's the best way for.
Speaker 6 (33:41):
People to get to know about us. You can also
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