Tripping Through Time: The Stoned Ape Saga

Join Frank, Bre, and Lynette as they dive deep into the intriguing and controversial Stoned Ape Theory. This hypothesis, first proposed by Terence McKenna, suggests that the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms played a crucial role in the rapid development of human consciousness and intelligence.

The hosts explore the historical context of early human evolution, discuss McKenna's visionary ideas, and examine the potential cognitive and social benefits of psilocybin mushrooms. They also touch on the modern resurgence of psychedelic research and its implications for mental health and well-being.

Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that challenges conventional views on human evolution and opens up exciting possibilities for future research and exploration. Don't miss this fascinating episode that delves into the complex interplay between biology, culture, and the mind!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:37):
Welcome to another episode of Fringe Beyond Limits.
Hi guys.
Howdy how. Hi. How you doing? I'm exhausted.
Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Want some coffee? I want some cocaine.

(01:00):
And coffee? Cocaina. Well, one of them I can hook you up with. Cocaine?
Both are from columbia hello my
friends i do love my columbian coffee yeah i
do like my cocaine from columbia where else do they make cocaine does it come

(01:22):
from anywhere else pretty sure it comes from anyone's basement you think cocaine
comes from basements i don't know Just put that out there. You never know.
No, we do know. They do not come from basements. They come from an egg? You're going to...
I'm leaving the planet.

(01:45):
I'm done. I love frustrating him. It's so much fun. Is it really frustrating me?
Or I think I just die a little bit more inside every time. Died and gone to heaven? Because I die.
You know i deserve like a
war medal for dealing with you guys you know

(02:06):
you keep talking about how shitty we are as your co-hosts you can just do this
by yourself or you can find new ones i'm about to you guys are borderline the
funny thing is is we're your only two friends for the only ones agreed to do
this this is true yeah i think i'm just gonna do it,

(02:26):
like sex just do it by myself so you're gonna be on there with like three different
voices so it's like you're talking to me you'll be running to each mic station,
it's gonna be it's gonna be a long fucking episode after why you'd be like,
yeah it's sound like me during sex that's exactly that's what i'm like you'll
probably end up like Losing another 50 pounds after that. Oh, daddy.

(02:50):
Oh, daddy. Anyways.
So, yeah. How was everyone's weekity week week week? It was okay.
It was good. Just getting stuff ready for the next week.
We have to sound so fucking boring, people. We are boring.

(03:10):
Until we're together. Yeah. No. Yeah.
Well, I'll say some of my coworkers who listen to this understand why.
At least why I'm like, I work with lead paint chips.
Yeah. Because I got IMs from, oh, you met Carrie?
Yeah. Yeah. Carrie's like, I couldn't have said it better myself.

(03:33):
How many co-workers do you have to listen this is it more than one yeah yeah
yeah are both a mix of male and female correct all jury's still out on steve
this is true hey steve shout out steve hi steve i'm still waiting to touch you.

(03:54):
Forever and ever is steve the scooby-doo to brian shaggy yeah yeah got it yeah
that's steve's hi Hi, Steve. I remembered you.
Do any of the females want to meet me in person?
All the ones I know who have listened have already met you. And they refuse
to come on the show because they have met you.

(04:19):
I'm not sure how to take that. Take it exactly how that comes across.
Not well. Yeah, well. Not well at all.
All right. I have a lot of soul searching to do now,
it's gonna keep them up at night ladies thank you for ruining what little self

(04:40):
esteem I had to begin with and yeah that's all I gotta say about that now it's okay,
suck at it so anything fun and exciting happening?
No unfortunately no oh in two weeks I'm gonna go to see We are going to go see
OAR in concert with you, actually. That's right. We are going to go see OAR.

(05:03):
And Fitz and Tantrums. And what? Fitz.
What's that? Fitz and Tantrums? No, I said Fitz. What's Fitz and Tantrums?
Fitz and the Tantrums. Oh.
What am I saying wrong? No, I'm not saying you're saying anything wrong.
I just don't know what that is.
It's a band. It's a band. Oh, I did not know that's a band. Yeah.

(05:25):
I thought I was like, did I say it wrong? No. No, he has a band.
Oh, okay. I didn't know. Where are you going to see them at?
I can make you a hand clap.
Oh, they're opening for OAR? Yeah.
Oh, I hope to get their light done because I don't know who they are.
Well, you probably will. I just sang you this song. What song?
The hand clap. The hand clap song? I can make you a hand clap.
Okay. Okay, I did not know that was the name of that band. Yeah.

(05:48):
Okay, well, I know one song.
There you go. All right, I'll just be clapping. That might be the only one they
sing. I'm okay with this. Usually, yeah. Yeah, all right.
So, it's, all right, well, I'm happy. We're going to be at Ravinia for that. Yes, we are.
Oh, he's playing up, or me. They, them. They are playing up there. Them, they, them.

(06:08):
They, them. Yeah, they're playing up there. This is the second time I'm seeing
OAR at Ravinia. That's pretty bad.
Big for them right because usually they were college i don't
know i've never i probably can't tell you what song i think
they started as a college band
but they've they've had a couple nice hits
okay yeah yeah they sing me one love and

(06:30):
memories i don't hear the music you want
me to do music too she wanted she said to sing it to you
to her that's okay yeah no she wants
you to serenade her i'm out of tune tonight oh so yeah
i'm sorry get your tuning for no serenading dude dude i
think i'm always out of tune so yeah

(06:51):
so yeah yeah yeah yeah i just
got tongue twisted yeah yeah it happens it does well we do the things that keep
you up at night ladies which one of you would like to go first i can go first
okay go for it so humpty dumpty Humpty?

(07:12):
How did they figure out he was an egg? Like, when did we figure that out?
Because they never actually say he's an egg in the rhyme.
I've actually thought about that one, too, which sent me down a Googling rabbit hole.
So, what? Say that again? The Humpty Dumpty rhyme. Yes. When you think about
Humpty Dumpty, you think of him as an egg, right? Mm-hmm.

(07:33):
Where did that come from? How do you know he was an egg? Because in the rhyme,
it never said he was an egg. It's a legit question.
So, say the nursery rhyme. First, let me say one point. How does Humpty Dumpty
sit on a wall? Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty back together

(07:54):
again. Okay. So, where's the egg part?
It didn't end up, and we made scrambled eggs. On omelets? I was going to say
with hollandaise sauce. Oh.
I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. Oh, I got him without an answer.
I like this. No, because I know the origin is about King Henry VIII, I think.

(08:18):
Yeah, it has the origin, but I just want to know where the egg came from.
Who thought of him as an egg first?
Probably Disney. disney it no it came
from one of those nursery rhyme
books i i honestly pull up my google history
somewhere it was in there from a couple days ago i was like
this is i really want to understand the answer to this question but it was someone

(08:41):
took the liberty of drawing him as an egg and then it's just come so not become
synonymous with our understanding of that nursery rhyme but There was a little
bit more reasoning behind it, but I don't recall.
But I agree. Of all the things they could have picked, why an egg?
Yeah, so Humpty Dumpty is a character in an English nursery rhyme,

(09:05):
probably originally a riddle, and one of the best known in the English-speaking world.
He is typically portrayed as an anthropomorphic egg, though he is not explicitly described as such.
The first recorded versions of the rhyme date from the late 18th century England
as a tune from the 1870 in James William Eliot's National Nursery Rhymes and Nursery Songs.

(09:28):
Its origins are obscure and several theories have been advanced to suggest original meanings.
So there we go. Well, we just got a history lesson. All right.
So one person's idea turned into immortalization. Yes.
I'm going to rewrite that poem and make it a dish. Then it's going to confuse

(09:51):
what the dish ran away with the spoon.
I'm going to just make an omelet. I love omelets. What would you put in your omelets?
If I could, it would be all the meats and all the vegetables.
All of them? All of them.
Brussels sprouts? Yeah, why not? Ew. I like Brussels sprouts,
but not put them in eggs. Why not? Why not?

(10:13):
I think everything is great in eggs.
But, like, all at once? Yeah, why not? So, like, a garbage can pizza,
but a garbage can omelet. Omelet, yeah.
I love eggs. How big would that omelet be if you had all the meats?
Even if it was, like, a tablespoon of each?
It'd be a pretty big omelet. It would be. It would be.
Probably like La Bamba's burritos as big as your head. It'd be,

(10:36):
now I'm with the big size of your head, which is delicious to me.
Oh, and cheese. You got to throw all the cheeses.
All the cheeses. I love breakfast food. That's my problem. It's not my favorite.
I only like breakfast if it's savory. You only like what? Breakfast if it's savory.

(10:57):
Say that again? Breakfast. There we go. There you go.
If it's savory. Savory? Savory, greasy, salty.
I'm not a sweet breakfast person either. Yeah, like I... How can you not?
Cinnamon. Well, you know me. I'm on a big sweet tooth.
I don't have a big sweet tooth. French toast is so good. Gross.
Like, as a kid, pancakes were my favorite thing to have at home. So good.

(11:17):
But I hate them in the restaurant because they always put powdered sugar in
the batter and they put powdered sugar on top of it and they put maple syrup
on top of it. Disgusting.
Man. What else do you put on it if not syrup? I put peanut butter.
So funny story pancakes and peanut butter i never heard it you make a drier

(11:38):
food even more dry yeah that's do you ever try to put peanut butter in the batter and then cook it,
no yeah don't okay because peanut butter
doesn't cook so all the batter around
it doesn't cook either and it just makes it soggy it was disgusting i did that
when i was when i was like 10 at least you tried something yeah no yeah i mean

(11:59):
i thought it'd be amazing and it wasn't horrible yeah all right well that was
not your best thing that keeps you up at night,
excuse you no no no no you're the one that needs excusing because that was not
good it was good because it gets people thinking yeah it's not even keeping you up right now.

(12:24):
It's been a long day all right lynette do you want to go or do you want me to
go Mine's kind of short, but...
Do you ever find yourself where you're just falling asleep and you hear some
sort of noise and you can't decide whether it was your lucid dream that was

(12:45):
that noise or if the noise came from in your house?
And then you're like awake for the next hour because you're listening to see
if there's an intruder in the house.
I know what you're talking about. That has happened to me, but it does not keep
me up for hours because my dogs would go crazy if it was an intruder.
So i do look for them and see
was that something that they also heard but like sometimes that sound is so

(13:08):
vivid and so real but again my my dogs sometimes don't react so but it's hard
to say like that speaking of dogs right that that crashing sound that i heard was in my ears or my
head or you know whatever yeah not physical noise
that sounds crazy so yeah there

(13:31):
have been times where i'm awake i'm like i'm not even drifting off
and i will hear a noise that i perceive as loud and
my dogs don't move and my one
will react to anything yeah so
it's just like reacts to air yeah he reacts
to his shadow you know he'll
be sitting there and he farts and he reacts to that but

(13:54):
so yeah there have been times where i'm
like all right well could that have been paranormal like maybe
i just heard it and they didn't they weren't privy
to the noise for whatever reason and i think that i usually it's it's frustrating
because i was just falling asleep but then now i'm vigilant i'm listening did
that happen thinking is it paranormal you know can you do that again or like

(14:18):
a subconscious it just keeps me up for the next couple hours it's like damn
i I was right there, fall asleep.
Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah.
Yeah, that's interesting. I like that. So has that happened recently?
Every, I'd say about three to four times a year it happens. Oh, okay. Yeah.

(14:39):
Okay. I wouldn't say on a regular cadence or anything like that. So like every quarter.
So like Q1 noise. Q1 noise, Q2.
And, you know, sometimes it'll be at my house or if I'm at a hotel or I'm at,
you know, traveling or whatever.
I mean, usually when I'm in a hotel, I think, okay, it's someone down the hall

(14:59):
or whatever. And I tend to brush those off.
But sometimes when it sounds like it comes from in the room,
then you're like super freaked out because you're in a building full of strangers. Right.
Yeah. In a hotel, I'm kind of hoping somebody's coming in my room.
What's keeping? Yeah. Like, oh, yes, please come on in.
I need this area right here cleaned immediately. Oh, God.

(15:22):
Do you know what I do when I go into a hotel? The first thing I do when I walk into a hotel room?
I walk over to the drapes and I just wipe my balls all over them. Oh, ew.
Yeah, so think about that next time you guys want some sunshine in your room.
Grabbing my balls. I'm joking. I really don't do that. Don't believe you.
I think you're a liar and you do do that.

(15:43):
I do. I said do do. You did do do do. Yeah, I actually do that in my house and other people's houses.
I'm just picturing you in a motel that only has two floors.
The parking lot's right there and you're just oh yeah
like windows are outside yeah yeah i mean i does that is that wrong just a little

(16:07):
bit is it a teeny weeny bit yeah where does it state that in the unofficial
book well you can't do that yes i can no that doesn't count,
so about you yeah so i got two more quotes
and these are these
are fun these are you know thought-provoking soul-searching

(16:28):
and sad so oh boy
yeah you know just the theme of me so yeah
the first one is you died screaming but the
monster who took your place was silent huh
so basically basically kind of being
like possessed by something

(16:49):
no it's deeper than that so
you died screaming but the
monster who took your place was silent
so to me this quote
speaks to trauma so the trauma that you endure usually as a child has you kicking

(17:12):
and screaming and crying and what is replaced is the monster that stays silent
so you can kind of think of.
To me like something that happens
that creates like a serial killer you know you know so like you take the trauma
that they experience usually it's a child usually it's sexual abuse right i

(17:37):
mean i can't even imagine you know what that would be like but what replaces that
person is that serial killer, which is the monster, which is usually this quiet, silent,
stalking type.
Yeah, that's crazy. Well, you said you had two theories?

(17:58):
Um, that as well as, you know, just any type of trauma that,
you know, a person endures that is replaced by,
you know, someone just not being so outspoken and being more, you know, go ahead.
I was just wondering, could it also mean, like, what if it actually meant,

(18:19):
going with your trauma line, I suppose, physical death,
but by not speaking about it, the silence is the monster that pervades? Yeah.
Very, very, very, very. I mean, to play off that, I guess, physical death,
you go kicking and screaming and the silence is what, the corpse that's left behind?

(18:43):
Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's another way, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very well.
So, yeah. That's a little quote that keeps me up.
This other one is also great.
Uh-oh. So, it goes, they told me you were gone and I screamed.

(19:07):
I wailed, I cried, and I screamed some more.
As loud as I could I hoped that if you could hear me on your way to heaven you
would turn around and come back to me sheesh.
You know so me losing my mother a while ago that was 8 years ago but then,

(19:31):
last year I lost both my dad and my uncle that kind of spoke to me and just keeps me.
Thinking and also like you hear about
people having your death experiences and
it's like what if a part of that you know reason
for turning back because some people say that they had a choice yeah

(19:53):
that they could have moved forward or you know what if them turning
back was maybe something that they don't recall someone
just praying crying whatever yeah
thoughts it's just
heavy i know i kind of brought the
whole mood the whole mood down with those two but yeah so yeah those are mine

(20:16):
so you're welcome for or bringing the mood down so today you're entitled to
feel how you feel thank you to think yeah i know you do you i somebody's got
to do me might as well be me,
yeah no sure listeners if you guys would like to do me please go ahead and send
me an email at And Frank at fringebeyondlimits.com.

(20:39):
That would be great to know that somebody wants to do something to me.
So today, guys, what are we talking about today?
It's a little bit different, no? We are talking about the stoned ape theory.
Hmm. Not the stone tape theory.

(21:02):
No, not the stoned tape, but the stoned ape. Ape, like, ooh, ah, ape.
Well, how did that go again? Ooh, ah. That was actually, the second time was better.
Yeah. The second time was better. So stoned ape.
Yeah. Not stone tape. Right.
Stoned ape, like...

(21:23):
They stoned you to death. Oh, bad monkey.
That's what I said to myself. I just beat it and said bad monkey.
I've never heard of a stoned ape theory. Yeah, so I came across this and I thought
it was really interesting.
So basically, I'll give you the rudimentary, crude.

(21:47):
It's just a theory that the way consciousness evolved into humanity,
it was basically our ancestors of ours ate so much psilocybin mushrooms and
tripped out for so long that from that spurred our consciousness.

(22:09):
Okay. I think I've heard of, I'd never heard of it referred to as the stone
ape. Okay. I think I've heard of that theory.
Yeah. Yeah, this is my first time hearing anything about this. Really?
Yeah. All right, well, you know, after this, we'll all go get stoned.
Sweet. Yeah, mushrooms for everybody, baby.
Let's get it. The stoned ape theory, also known as the stoned ape hypothesis.

(22:32):
Proposes a fascinating controversial idea.
The rapid development of human consciousness and intelligence was significantly
influenced by the consumption of psychedelic mushrooms.
This theory, first articulated by ethnobotanist and philosopher Terence McKenna in the early 1990s,
suggests that the ingestion of psilocybin-containing mushrooms by our early

(22:55):
human ancestors played a crucial role in their evolutionary progress.
This article delves into the origins, key points, supporting arguments,
and criticisms of the stoned ape theory, while also exploring its broader implications. applications.
So have any of you done, actually, you know what, allegedly no one's done any drugs here.

(23:18):
So we'll just... Officially nobody who's done anything here.
Allegedly, have you or have you not?
I allegedly, I have not. Officially, I would like to.
So...
I have not, allegedly. Allegedly, Lynette has not.

(23:42):
Even though you know otherwise. I don't know anything. All right, so. I plead the fifth.
To understand the stoned ape theory, it's essential to consider the historical
context of early human evolution.
Approximately two million years ago, Homo erectus. I love it. You grow up.
It made me giggle too, though. I mean, it's a double whammy.

(24:05):
It's homo erectus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emerged in the African savannas, marking a significant stage in human evolution.
These early humans lived in an environment rich with diverse flora and fauna,
including psilocybin mushrooms, which thrive in the dung of large herbivores.
Why, you know, they say homo erectus. They could have just said poop instead of dung, right?

(24:32):
No. No, African animals, dung. Dung.
The discovery and consumption of these mushrooms could have had profound effects
on early human behavior and cognition.
Terence McKenna was a visionary thinker and influential figure in the psychedelic community.
Born in 1946, McKenna's interest in ethnobotany, shamanism, and consciousness

(24:56):
studies led him to explore the potential of psychedelics in human history.
His travels and studies in the amazon rainforest
exposed him to the traditional use of psychoactive plants
inspiring him to develop the stoned ape theory mckenna's theory was initially
met with skepticism skepticism skepticism i can't say the word skepticism skepticism

(25:20):
skepticism jesus the two of you
i know and i'm the one drinking wine today well she's rubbing off on me,
skepticism but was since i did that one on purpose but has since gained following
among those interested in alternate explanations in human evolution so question answer.

(25:44):
What would be what do
you think you go when you
trip out on psilocybin do
you think it's really just you having
a psychedelic experience or do you think you
really experience something that's
truly there i like to believe

(26:07):
that it's it's a
spiritual thing there are people who do it recreationally and for fun and all
of that but i would like to believe that it breaks down barriers in your mind
and precognitions in your mind to allow you to see and experience other realities. Okay.

(26:28):
I would like to think that as well. And I think it also is part of the intention behind it.
So if you go in looking for a cathartic or healing or spiritual experience,
you're going to have those sort of responses.
There are others who just want to see how many micrograms and milligrams that they can put.
If you're on Reddit, people are like, Like, I just ate this shoebox full of,

(26:51):
you know, golden teachers or whatever and wish me luck.
Like, I don't know. I feel like you're just setting yourself up for a nasty trip.
I mean, there's always possibility to have a nasty trip, but you get what you
need at the time is what I believe.
Bree? I would like to think it's something that's actually there but I would

(27:18):
also think it's more psychedelic.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've always wondered, like I would love to do,
like I have not done psychedelics at all.
I would like to, but I'm also the person that has control issues.

(27:38):
Yeah. So I know a big part of it is letting go.
And, uh, that I find that part really difficult for me, but like,
I would like to do like ayahuasca.
You want to go for the Mac Daddy. I do. I do. I feel like you should start small.
You've smoked weed before, yeah? Yeah. That's in the psychedelic category, isn't it?

(27:59):
Yeah, but... Most people don't get that. Don't have that psychoactive experience.
Do you do weed?
Do you do weed? Do ayahuasca? Peyote? Yeah, I don't do weed right now.
Right now. I do want to do an ayahuasca, and I do want to do a peyote.

(28:21):
Yeah, but so you guys know my personality. It's either all or nothing, right?
I know. I want to, fuck this ghost hunting. I want to hug a demon.
Yeah, I want to get felt up by a succubi. Fuck eating a couple mushrooms.
I want to go balls of the walls in ayahuasca trip for three days. Yes. Yeah.
That's just my personality. That's just who, you know what I mean?

(28:43):
Well, DMT is only for like 30 seconds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's I think like 15 minutes.
I thought it's like, okay. No, no, when you... Maybe it sets in within like 15 seconds.
So there's no emergency handbrake. No. You're just on. Right.
Yeah, so when you smoke it, yeah, it's like a 15 minute trip once you hit that breakthrough moment.

(29:04):
But like, yeah, ayahuasca is like a whole like...
Yeah, but it usually results in most people purging and puking and crying.
Well, yeah, you're purifying your body. That's how the shamans in South America
look at it. I understand, but... Do you?
Yes. I like to purge all the time. Out your butt. Why not?

(29:26):
That's the best place. Only you're going to be on a wood floor on a straw mat
in front of strangers puking and crapping yourself?
Yeah. Cool. I mean, don't threaten me with a good time.
You know, so the stoned ape theory is built on several key propositions,
each suggesting a different way in which psilocybin mushrooms could have influenced

(29:50):
early human development.
One of the core ideas of the theory is that low doses of psilocybin improved
visual acuity in early humans.
McKenna argued that this enhanced vision would have made early humans more effective
hunters and gatherers, providing a significant survival advantage.
Improved vision could help detect predators, spot prey from a distance,

(30:14):
and navigate the complex terrain of the savannas more efficiently.
That's true. Is it true? Details are more vivid than you can describe. Yeah.
Edges are sharper. Mm-hmm. colors are
brighter so it's kind of like hd yeah it's
like ultra what is the newest one 4k ultra

(30:35):
hd or whatever it is these days yeah and yeah like
i'm i'm waiting for the one where i look at my my laptop and i go yo i want
pizza and the pizza box hits me square in the face we've been waiting for smell-o-vision
since we were kids yeah oh yeah yes yeah ever since think Think about how advertisement
would be if we had television.

(30:56):
I was there when Scratch and Sniff first came out, I think. I think that came out in the 80s.
Who knows what chemicals we were huffing up our noses as kids.
Does this smell like China? Yeah, this smells like China to me, too.
Yeah, that was probably the first time I ever got high was probably as a kid,
Scratch and Sniffs. Or the Mr.
Sharpie or Mr. All those big markers, the smelling markers.

(31:20):
I won't say i would i would smell the big sniff
the big permanent markers i used to like with the
black and silver stripes yeah those are smell like
my childhood yeah you guys are all fucking addicts look at you guys i need effects
i need a i need a harvey i need one right now i need to smell it yeah i will
suck your dick sickos who was the saturday night live the oh um oh what was

(31:43):
her name she's like superstar she was in that movie she ended up doing the movie.
Mary Therese. I don't know. I don't know.
She was a Spartan. No. No, not a different character.
Yeah. Yes, yes. Miss Swan? I don't know. No, that Miss Swan was Mad TV.
That was Mad TV. I don't know. Whoever puts her...
What is her name? Molly Shannon. Yeah, it's Molly Shannon's character.

(32:04):
She played a Catholic schoolgirl.
And she puts her hand in her arms, and she smelled them like this.
Because when I get nervous, I smell them like this. I put my arms in there.
I smell them like this. I don't remember.
Are you Googling this? She's Googling it. Superstar Mary Catherine Gallagher.
Mary Catherine Gallagher. Yeah. That was close. What did I say?
I don't remember. Mary Teresa. Mary Shelley. Mary, I don't know.

(32:27):
Yeah, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. Yeah, Frankenstein. Yeah, yeah.
Nope. And you were about to do the thriller dance. It was, which is basically a Frankenstein.
Frankenstein walk like that. It was played by Molly Shannon.
Molly Shannon. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Okay.
I think that was great. Thanks, guys. No, but I- You're welcome.

(32:47):
But yes, your visual acuity goes up. Okay. All right.
Also, at slightly higher doses, psilocybin may have acted as an aphrodisiac,
increasing sexual arousal, and mating behaviors.
This heightened sexual activity would lead to higher reproduction rates,
spreading the genes associated with mushroom consumption.

(33:09):
The theory suggests that this
could have had a direct impact on population growth and genetic diversity.
I think we should all take psilocybin right now in high doses and get sexually
aroused. Yeah, we may need to try this theory out.
I don't know how that works. Sex.
You know when two people get together?
Yeah. When two people really love each other.

(33:32):
See, when a boy... I don't know. Nope.
It doesn't have to be any. Any what?
Any one.
So. No, what I meant was, I don't know how it works, because I feel like mobility

(33:53):
slows down when you're high on psilocybin.
Really? Yeah. Okay.
Does mobility slow down or does the perception?
Yeah, it could be the perception. It feels like it's either in ultra mega speed or slow motion in waves.

(34:14):
So I couldn't imagine what that's like for...
Should I just go to farms looking through cow poop for mushrooms?
There is a mushroom that grows on cow poop. It's the psilocybe cubensis.

(34:36):
That's probably the most common one that's sold on the market.
But it's grown in horse and cow poop. Sugar cane mulch as well.
And then the one that I think your monkeys are talking about is Penelois africanus,
which is found in African and hippopotamus dung in Central Africa.
Okay. So yes, if you want to go to barnyards and monkey through little poops.

(35:01):
Yeah, well, I'll monkey through it. That's fine. Yeah. So McKenna proposed that
even higher doses of psilocybin facilitated complex thought processes,
including the development of language and symbolic thinking.
The altered states of consciousness induced by these substances may have spurred

(35:22):
creativity, leading to the creation of art, religion, and culture.
The cognitive leap could explain the rapid development of sophisticated tools,
social structures, and cultural practices observed in early human societies.
Psychedelic experiences often result in feelings of unity and interconnectedness.

(35:42):
McKenna believed that these experiences fostered stronger social bonds and cooperation
among early humans, enhancing group survival.
The shared mystical experiences could have reinforced group identity and cohesion,
promoting collective action and mutual support.
Probably, because they were like, this mushroom could kill me,

(36:03):
or this mushroom could get me high.
So, is it like the three bears, but with mushrooms?
Maybe. And this one's just right. I don't remember anybody dying,
or almost dying. No, but this one is dinner, and I'm full.
This one killed Uncle George.
Uncle George. George. George. George. George is his uncle. And this one got

(36:25):
me high as a kite. Just right. Okay.
I enjoy this. This is great.
Proponents of the stoned ape theory point to ethnobotanical evidence in the
cultural context of psychedelic use to support their claims.
Historical and contemporary use of psychedelics in various cultures suggests

(36:47):
a longstanding relationship between humans and these substances.
Indigenous tribes around the world have used psychedelics for spiritual,
medicinal, and and social purposes, indicating their potential impact on human societies.
For instance, the use of ayahuasca in South America, peyote among Native American
tribes, and psilocybin mushrooms in Mesoamerica highlights the significance

(37:11):
of these substances in cultural practices.
These examples demonstrate that the psychedelics have been integrated into human
rituals and belief systems for millennia, supporting the idea that they could
have influenced early human development.
So do you know how they make ayahuasca in South America?
Yes. No. So this is where I think there is an outside hand helping with this.

(37:44):
So with ayahuasca, it's a plant. So-
Ayahuasca, if you ingest just, so let me back up.
So DMT is the active ingredient in ayahuasca. So dimethyltryptamine.
If you ingest DMT solely, there is acid in your stomach that neutralizes.

(38:07):
So it never gets in your bloodstream to have the effects of it. Okay.
So the tribal people in South America would turn this into a brew,
into something you could drink by taking these plants that have DMT and boiling them.
But they knew that they needed something to neutralize the acid in your stomach.

(38:31):
So they knew of another plant that would act as an inhibitor to these acids
and would neutralize the acid, allowing the DMT to flow through your digestive system.
But not flow through your speech. Right, not my speech.
It kind of sounds like I'm high, but it would let it flow through your digestive

(38:54):
tract and be absorbed into your bloodstream.
My question is even let's
say now they say for millennia so this has been going on for two three four
thousand years in south america let's say it was even 500 years ago how the
hell did they know that this plant had these inhibitors that would neutralize the acid in your stomach,

(39:19):
trial and error but how even get to that with no scientific knowledge with no scientific testing.
Well you don't i mean alien indigenous folks have
been using plant medicines for thousands of years so
they've all tried and tested the effects on the body and have recorded through

(39:39):
either speech or whatever written but i i get what you're saying but i think
the important part to point out is the vine of the plant that's used here is
on the opposite side of like a mountain range or Or something like that.
Yes. They're hundreds of miles apart. Right. And they only grow in.
Certain times of the year. And in these two regions. So you can't grow this

(40:01):
one over here. And vice versa. Climates.
Yeah. So I agree that there has to be.
Like something. Some sort of intervention. Or something. And I'm not saying
it's aliens. By any means. I'm just saying that there's some. Other spiritual. Yeah.
Communication that told them to get this like the oracle delphi i mean not saying

(40:22):
that it was the greeks but i'm just
saying like you know like it just it's fascinating to learn and and to,
try to think up of these different scenarios you know it's just so weird so
yeah so that's how ayahuasca works and supposedly when you go to these retreats
and i think it's in peru mostly I think so, yeah.

(40:43):
The shamans that do these rituals also drink the ayahuasca with you.
So these shamans, I mean, if they're doing it.
Well, the traditional ceremony was the shaman would drink it and you would go
sit with the shaman and the shaman would have visuals for you.
But as soon as Westerners were like, cool, new drug and I can go heal myself,

(41:04):
then they started opening up these rituals for folks to experience it themselves.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and people who have gone through these rituals have been cured
of mental illnesses, addictions. PTSD, addictions.
Not helped. No, like gone. Yeah, keyword is cured of these things.

(41:28):
So they basically, if I remember, they basically call it the death of the ego.
Yeah. You know, so I don't know what that would be like, but I would love to go and experience it.
There's different theories about ego death out there. Yeah. Yeah.
There are. About being good or a bad thing. Right. Yeah.

(41:48):
Right. But I would love to go and do this someday. But you know what?
And I haven't done this recently, but like, I want to say pre-COVID, I kind of looked at them.
And to tell you the truth, they're not that horribly, it was like three, four grand for a week.

(42:09):
Well, there was some facilities trying to get us set up in Florida under a church
of whatever type of title. There was one in Kentucky.
I think that's currently active and doing that out of the, right,
the religion protection.
Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think you can do peyote.
Yodi, that's like a closed ceremony type of like closed practice.

(42:31):
It's not open to white people or anybody else unless you are invited by,
specifically invited by a tribal member.
Well, Mr. Tribal member, I mean this with all due respect, not being funny,
but I would love to be, or at least have a conversation.
You know well i think there's also
some concern about the cactus

(42:54):
being endangered because of people stealing going
on reservations and harvesting this this plant and
yeah it's that's illegal yeah it's
a big legal war and you
know they're fighting for their culture and there's just these
white people you know taking what they think is
theirs yeah fortunately yeah that's that's don't do

(43:16):
that that's i like i'm being
i'm trying to be respectful for native americans
you know when i when i'm saying that
i would love to even just have a conversation oh for sure about it with with
someone in the know about that so so all that's to say is mushrooms are growing
in your backyard don't eat mushrooms unless you know what you're doing yeah

(43:42):
please don't go out there don't listen to Lynette,
don't do that I'm a nerdy forager so I know what to look for but I'm just yes
don't do that do not put something in your mouth that you do not know.
What it is or have properly identified. I mean that in all applications. I know you do.
All right. So psilocybin, the active compound in psychedelic mushrooms,

(44:07):
interacts with serotonin receptors in the brain, leading to altered perception and cognition.
Cognition these neurochemical effects can
result in enhanced sensory perception increased emotional
sensitivity and profound changes in thought
patterns some reach for some researchers argue that these effects could have

(44:28):
influenced brain development and function over evolutionary time scales studies
and the effects of psilocybin and other psychedelics have shown that these substances
can induce states of consciousness that are radically different from ordinary waking states.
These altered states often involve a sense of unity, transcendence,
and interconnectedness, which could

(44:49):
have played a role in shaping human consciousness and social behavior.
The human brain underwent a remarkable increase in size and complexity approximately
2 million years ago, a phenomenon known as the encephalization event.
Did I say that right? encephalization event.
The stone ape theory provides a potential explanation for this rapid brain expansion,

(45:14):
attributing it to the cognitive enhancements induced by psychedelics.
McKenna suggested that the consumption of psilocybin mushrooms could have stimulated
neurogenesis, leading to the growth of new neural connections and the expansion of the brain.
While this hypothesis remains speculative, it aligns with the observed timeline

(45:35):
of brain development and the emergence of complex human behaviors.
The rapid increase in brain size and cognitive abilities could be seen as a
result of the interplay between genetic, environmental, and cultural factors,
the psychedelics playing a contributory role.
So, what do you guys think about that so far, that all this can be spurred on by just mushrooms?

(46:03):
Right, it opens up neural pathways and connectors. I mean, there are a lot of
mental health studies going on using psychedelics as a means of treatment.
So I think... Acid or something as well. MDMA. Yeah. And I don't know what MDMA is. It's ecstasy.
Is it? Yeah. Oh, I like ecstasy.

(46:26):
Do you? I don't know what it is. I've never tried it. I've never done it.
I just like the word ecstasy. Allegedly? Allegedly. No, no, for sure. I've never...
I've never done it, but yeah, so they use it in like very small doses to help,
especially PTSD suffers and they help them be able, I was reading an article,

(46:49):
they help them relive the event of the trauma in a third person safe space,
which allows them to process it.
Appropriately to get over that event and basically heal.
Deal so it was really interesting reading that yeah
well it's about time they actually start studying these

(47:11):
drugs after they've been all locked down as class ones and all of this or schedule
ones or whatever yeah i mean if it grows in the i mean mdma and acid doesn't
sure like sure sure if these other things grow in nature you can't make it illegal
well i mean even even Even weed,
even weed being a class one, they're saying,

(47:32):
or schedule one, and if you look at, what is it, Valium and all these like harsher,
like prescription drugs, like they're class four.
They're saying weed is worse where you can't overdose from it.
No one's ever, I mean, you can't, you know what I mean? Right.
It baffles my mind that these psychedelics, psilocybin mushrooms,

(47:57):
and doing a weed. Doing a weed.
They say it's worse than Valium and what's the other one?
Prescription one. Xanax. Yeah. It's crazy.
Well, it makes you, well, two points of that is sugar is completely legal,
but it has the same reaction on the brain as cocaine and

(48:21):
we feed it to our children like but
it's completely fine it's completely okay and you
know it makes you wonder what did somebody did someone just have a personal
vendetta against this drug and then that's why it gets classified that way or
did they know something did they know that when people had open minds and they
weren't little lemmings and following the orders of society like people who

(48:44):
are not following convention or a disruption to society.
Just another way of control. Yeah. Yeah. So if people, to prevent any sort of
enlightenment, let's throw people in jail by the hundreds, by the thousands for weed.
I mean, I agree. I agree. And most of those people thrown into jail are of a

(49:08):
certain skin color on top of that. I mean, let's be honest.
It's all just a fucked up agenda. There's one color that gets busted and doesn't go to jail.
Green. Purple. Ah, I got it. That's why it's the purple nurble. I know.
So yeah, I agree. It's stupid.

(49:30):
Despite its intriguing propositions, the stoned ape theory faces significant
criticism and skepticism from the scientific community.
One major criticism is the lack of direct evidence linking the consumption of
psilocybin mushrooms to human evolution.
The theory relies heavily on speculative interpretations of existing data,
and there are no concrete archaeological or fossil records to support it.

(49:54):
How can there be? be like i understand it's speculative
and i'm not saying this is for sure but i mean it's an interesting theory
and with this theory you can
draw lines of parallel because there's no other reason why
our brains exploded the way they did two
million years ago and and evolved as

(50:14):
fast as it did why what's
what's the unless the reptilians mess with their
dna is it the
reptilians or is it the anunnaki aren't they
kind of in cahoots they so in some circles they are one in the same but in many
others they are two separate things i've read have drawn correlations of being

(50:38):
yeah the same yeah i'm just and who knows but we we're still looking for that
link right yeah agreed agreed.
But no i love this theory like yeah it makes sense to me well i mean and it's
it's fun it's It's fun to think outside the box.
I don't see the harm of proposing other things and talking about them.

(51:01):
What if this was the evolution for Neanderthal Bigfoot?
Right. And our evolution was from the DNA manipulation.
So Neanderthal went to Bigfeet.
And it's believed that they're actually more spiritually evolved because they
didn't get involved in all the muck and muddle that we did.

(51:21):
And then Homo erectus went our route. Yeah.
Okay. I mean, yeah. Sounds legit. Are you awake over there? Yeah, I'm awake. Okay, good.
I'm just making sure you're still here. It's just my butt hurts from sitting, so.
Yeah? Do you want me to rub it for you? No, I don't want you to rub it for me.
I'm just trying to make you feel, I'm trying to be a hospitable, you know, you know.

(51:44):
I would do, nevermind. I just picked you like a kitty, like meow, meow.
Like pawing at her butt cheeks. Like two little paws.
Yeah, no, no. I would probably, I would do a wax on, wax off kind of approach.
Exactly. I would be the karate kid. Yeah.

(52:05):
Additionally, alternative explanations for the development of human intelligence
and culture exist, such as changes in diet, social structures,
environmental pressures.
These factors offer plausible explanations for the cognitive and cultural advancements
observed in early humans without invoking the influence of psychedelics.
Critics also point out the risks associated with psychedelic use,

(52:28):
arguing that the unpredictable and sometimes dangerous effects of these substances
would pose significant risks to early humans.
Adverse reactions, including hallucinations, paranoia, and impaired judgments,
could outweigh any potential cognitive benefits.
That's just Darwin's theory.
Yes. As much as I love, hate Darwin's theory, but that's another topic.

(52:52):
But I mean, there's actions that we do that are questionable and some people
survive it and other people don't. I agree.
I agree. I mean, there's no way of any one thought or another to be 100% correct.
And I understand that we're not we don't need to be a hundred percent correct that you know I.

(53:17):
75% correct gets you there. And I agree with that.
But to totally say that everything else is wrong,
I think it does a disservice to being
truthful and open-minded on other possibilities because we don't know.
And it's okay to have other thoughts as long as thoughts and opinions don't become beliefs.

(53:44):
And I think that's where things get really, really messy is when an opinion becomes a belief.
Furthermore, mainstream scientists often view the stone ape theory as fringe
science, lacking the rigorous empirical support required for broader acceptance.

(54:06):
The theory remains a topic of debate and discussion within the psychedelic community,
and among those interested in alternative theories of human evolution.
So, I mean, like we can totally, we can totally take the smartest scientific
people and let's bring them to the most haunted areas.

(54:29):
Let them do research and analysis and see if they can truly find out what's going on.
Again, this goes to being open-minded, right? I don't feel as though people
are open-minded enough.
And also people are only trained in their one field.

(54:50):
There's no cross-training anymore. The thing that I loved back Da Vinci is they
were trained in the arts as well as in the scientific.
And the permutation in between it all. They brought it all together. They had the music.
They had the art, they had the science, they had the math. Yes.

(55:13):
Yeah, absolutely. Because everything... And you had like a family doctor,
not a family, like a town doctor or whatever who knew how to do everything.
It's the same sort of concept, whereas now we've been so siloed.
I work at a factory and all I do is I put this widget on the machine and that's all I do.
Or like this is my function at work or I'm a doctor and I only work on hips

(55:36):
and knees, you know, whatever. Right.
Right. We've gotten so far away from anybody having a complete understanding of anything.
Right. I mean, even your general practitioner still refers you out to everything else.
You know, and I can't go to a general practitioner and be like,
all right, just what do you think it is? And give me something.

(55:58):
No, we need to date, you know, over here and over there. And it's just like,
you know, I have a life. I need to work.
You know, I can't constantly be taking time off work, you know,
for stuff like this. So, but I mean, going back, like there's everything is
so specialized that, you know.
We it's just all by design is

(56:19):
it is that your conspiracy it is okay and
i i i do believe that i'm i'm not
saying i'm not saying it's all or nothing right right and i'm not
saying but in general like okay we follow
the scientific method like that that is what we've agreed upon socially that
that is our process and we still don't even follow it those who are the elites

(56:44):
or the The most knowledgeable people in the scientific communities still,
step number one, ask a question.
Like, sometimes you can't even ask a question because you are shut down by other
folks who are saying, nope, that's not wrong.
It's been proven that Darwin's theory is this.

(57:04):
Well, what about all these other cases that Darwin's theory doesn't fit?
Well, that's just an anomaly.
Well, aren't you a scientist? It's like, you should be looking into these anomalies.
Why did the anomaly happen?
Right. Like, that's what I would like to... If this is your exception to your rule... Right.
Like, the example you wrote... There's no exceptions. There's no exceptions.

(57:27):
So... Yeah, no, I agree. Get off my little soapbox here. No, I like it.
So, the stoned ape theory invites us to consider the broader implications of
psychedelics and human culture in consciousness.
Beyond the specific claims about human evolution, the theory suggests that psychedelic

(57:48):
experiences have played a significant role in shaping human history and society.
This perspective opens up new avenues of inquiry into the role of altered states
of consciousness in cultural and cognitive development.
The connection between psychedelics and spirituality is well documented across various cultures.
Many indigenous traditions regard psychedelic substances as sacred tools for

(58:11):
communicating with the divine, accessing hidden knowledge, and gaining insight
into the nature of reality.
The spiritual use of psychedelics often involves rituals, ceremonies,
and shamanic practices designed to facilitate transformative experiences.
Experiences the stone ape theory implies that
these spiritual practices may have ancient origins

(58:32):
rooted in the early use of psychedelics by our ancestors if psychedelics played
a role in the development of religious and spiritual beliefs they could have
significantly influenced the formation of early human societies moral codes
and social structures so there is going back on that
a theory that Moses in the burning bush is,

(58:56):
was basically Moses getting high and having these visions come to him.
So like the burning bush and, and I don't remember the specifics,
but like the burning bush was like the burning of like something to smoke or

(59:16):
inhale that he had these visions.
So when the burning bush talked to him and spoke to him saying that he was God
was basically an analogy of that, which is pretty interesting.
And also, I believe the, I think I mentioned the Oracle of Delphi.
That was also the vapors coming from the caves underneath where the Oracle resided

(59:44):
that would put her in these.
And it was usually a woman, right? The Oracle was a woman.
Would purge into these psychedelic states to where she was able to give these
prophecies and advice that people came...
Asking her so maybe yeah i mean and and
again it all goes back is it something

(01:00:05):
just is it is it as simple as
just a chemical reaction going into our brain
or is it more of our the
chemical reaction opening a doorway for our consciousness to
look through and experience that is
real you know what i mean i do

(01:00:26):
and i don't know if we'll ever uh yeah answer because
it's different reality for everyone it is
and if it's real enough even if it's just
let's just say it's just perceived visual
occurrence that you know your brain's just doing something weird but if it's
real enough for the person to make a change or to have some sort of impact then

(01:00:49):
it's done its job right and also So I've thought about this as well,
is that people who have serious mental health issues and have these psychoses and hallucinations,
is it really, to them, I mean, yes,
it's real, but is that chemical imbalance doing something similar that these

(01:01:11):
psychedelic drugs are doing?
And opening a doorway to a different reality that they're perceiving as real.
But to them, that imbalance happens to them naturally where you and I have to
take a drug to help see that.
So are they really not crazy at all? Are they just a... I've often wondered that.

(01:01:33):
I went to school for psychology, but I've often wondered, are the people who
see or hear things or are experiencing things, Are they just not a disorder,
but are they more connected spiritually to something greater than us?
Just reiterating what you're saying, that we take a drug that people are in

(01:01:55):
mental health facilities or seeking counseling or whatever for. Right, right.
Which one is more messed up? The person taking a drug to have this connection.
Who is the crazy person? Yeah, right.
Who's the crazy person? but yeah I do.
Go towards the the line of

(01:02:15):
thinking that it opens a doorway for our consciousness
to to experience something because i do think that whatever
exists after this meat
suit goes is whatever consciousness
is i think it's separate from the brain i don't think the brain creates it i
think the brain interacts with it so yeah i mean this is fascinating on so many

(01:02:39):
different levels The potential cognitive and creative enhancements induced by
psychedelics are another important aspect of the Stone Age theory.
Modern research has shown that psychedelics can stimulate creativity,
problem-solving, and divergent thinking.
These effects could have contributed to the development of art,
music, language, and technology in early human cultures.

(01:03:01):
The altered states of consciousness brought about by psychedelics might have
enabled early humans to perceive the world in new and innovative ways,
leading to breakthroughs in tool making,
social organization, and cultural expression.
The theory suggests that these cognitive enhancements were not merely incidental,

(01:03:22):
but played a crucial role in the rapid development of human civilization.
Psychedelics also have profound social and psychological impacts,
fostering empathy, compassion, and a sense of interconnectedness.
These experiences can strengthen social bonds, enhance cooperation,
and promote collective well-being.

(01:03:44):
The Stone Ape Theory posits that these social benefits were vital for the survival
and success of early human groups.
In contemporary society, psychedelics are being explored for their therapeutic
potential in treating mental health conditions such as depression,
anxiety, PTSD, and addiction.
The resurgence of interest in psychedelic research highlights their potential

(01:04:07):
to address psychological-emotional challenges, echoing their proposed role in
supporting the mental and emotional well-being of humans.
Modern scientific research on psychedelics has provided valuable insights into
their effects of the brain and mind.
Advances in neuroscience, psychology, and pharmacology have deepened our understanding

(01:04:30):
of how psychedelics interact with neural circuits and influence cognition,
emotion, and perception.
So, who wants to go do drugs right now?
Let's do it. All right, let's go. You know, our next episode,
we're all going to be stoned.
It'll be live for people to watch, you know? Yeah, yeah.

(01:04:52):
Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly.
Allegedly. I plead the fifth. Okay, I'll plead it with you.
One of the key findings in modern psychedelic research is the concept of neuroplasticity,
The brain's ability to reorganize and form new neural connections.

(01:05:13):
I was going to say this earlier, but I wanted to get to it.
Psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, have been shown to promote neuroplasticity,
leading to increased connectivity between different brain regions.
This enhanced connectivity may underlie the profound changes in perception,
thought, and behavior reported by users.

(01:05:33):
The potential for psychedelics to stimulate
neuroplasticity aligns with McKenna's hypothesis that psilocybin could have
contributed to the rapid expansion and complexity of the human brain.

(01:05:56):
By fostering the growth of new neural connections, psychedelics may have facilitated
the development of advanced cognitive functions such as abstract thinking,
problem solving, and self-awareness. And speech. And speech.
Words are hard. Dude, listen, you guys say this many words with all these.

(01:06:17):
Your voice is so soothing.
Is it? Yeah. I never thought it was. Yeah.
Is that why you guys fall asleep on me? A little bit. Probably.
Or it could be the roofies I gave you. That too. Yeah, cool. Go to sleep.
I mean, I'm looking forward to the day when I can taste colors and smell... Semen?

(01:06:42):
Yeah, like a sailor semen? Like men? A sea of men of the sea?
I would love semen from men of the sea.
Like chicken of the sea? Is it chicken? No, like men of the sea,
like cunt, like men of the cunt.
No? No. Okay. Maybe. Okay. Love you.

(01:07:04):
The therapeutic applications of psychedelics are a rapidly growing area of research.
Clinical trials have demonstrated that the efficacy of psilocybin and other
psychedelics in treating a range of mental health conditions.
These studies have shown that psychedelics can induce lasting positive changes
in mood, cognition, and behavior, often after just one or two sessions.

(01:07:26):
The therapeutic potential of psychedelics may provide insights into their historical
role in human evolution.
If these substances can help individuals overcome psychological challenges and
enhance their wellbeing,
it is plausible that they offered similar benefits to early humans,
supporting their mental and
emotional resilience in the face of environmental and social pressures.

(01:07:50):
The resurgence of interest in psychedelics has also raised important cultural
and ethical considerations.
The integration of psychedelics into modern society requires careful attention
to issues of safety, accessibility, and cultural sensitivity.
Sensitivity as researchers and practitioners explore the
potential benefits of psychedelics it is crucial to honor

(01:08:12):
the traditional knowledge and practices
of indigenous cultures that have long used these substances
for healing and spiritual purposes the stone
ape theory encourages us to reflect in the cultural significance of psychedelics
and their role in human history by recognizing the contributions of psychedelics
to human evolution we can foster a deeper deeper appreciation for their potential

(01:08:34):
to support individual and collective well-being in the present and future.
The stone ape theory, while speculative, opens up exciting possibilities for
future research and exploration.
Continued investigation into the role of psychedelics in human evolution and
culture could yield valuable insights into the origins of human consciousness and creativity.

(01:08:57):
Why don't you sign up for a study?
I would love to. Why don't you be a test subject? Yeah. I would.
I would in at a university in England, I think just last summer,
they started doing DMT studies to where they put you on a DMT trip for hours.

(01:09:18):
I would have, I would have signed up in a heartbeat,
you know, to be able to, I think that would also put a lot of my control issues at bay knowing I'm in a,
in a controlled environment requirement to being able to
really just let go and experience the
full effects of a psychedelic trip again i don't understand why you want to

(01:09:45):
a trip that's 15 minutes that most people can hardly handle and you want to
do it for hours yes and you haven't done a single psychedelic like never,
you don't know nope this is also coming from the guy who wants to meet a demon
so yeah like The highs of a psychedelic are great, but there are lows of a psychedelic that are.

(01:10:05):
I understand, I do understand that. Like I've done a lot of reading and research
into this, so it's not even like me being, what's the word?
Naive to the experience i
know but it's like talking about being seasick but
never having been on a boat right right you know like there's a good analogy

(01:10:30):
yeah yeah you can understand the physical symptoms but the inside symptoms are
again going back to i wish people could feel what i feel yeah absolutely yeah
i mean oh god that's one reason i would take away that,
superhuman skill if we ever had that because like
all the people are like high on meth and everything else like that like i don't

(01:10:51):
want to feel what they're feeling count me out you don't want to feel what they're
feeling when they're high or you don't want to feel what they're feeling to
want to be high both both okay all right i'm good with that so you're tweaking
out I'll scratch my neck.
I'll suck your dick. Yeah.

(01:11:11):
Yuck. Interdisciplinary approaches are essential for advancing our understanding
of the stone date theory.
Collaboration between fields such as anthropology, archaeology,
psychology, neuroscience, and ethnobotany can provide a more comprehensive perspective
on the potential role of psychedelics in human history.
By integrating diverse lines of evidence and methodologies, researchers can

(01:11:36):
develop more robust and nuanced theories about the influence of psychedelics on human development.
But see, that's what we're talking about. Like we need, if one person can't
have all these different, what's the word I'm looking for?
Experiences? Not experiences, but all these different. Reactions?

(01:11:56):
No, areas of study. I was like, you're very bad. It's like, I don't know what you're trying to say.
It's a diversity of knowledge. Yeah, diversity of knowledge.
But there's another word, and it's right on the tip of my tongue.
I can't think of it. But anyway, in one, like a da Vinci and all that,
then we need to get these different experts working together towards something,

(01:12:19):
you know? Do you think da Vinci was on mushrooms?
Maybe. He may have been on something. Disciplines. That's what I was looking
for. It's multidisciplinary. Yeah. Yeah, okay.
Jesus. I'm so proud of you, Frank. I am. Words are hard for me to say. Words are hard.
Yeah. I feel, I feel. Maybe all the great geniuses of the world were on some sort of drug.

(01:12:41):
Maybe. Maybe that's what opened them up. I mean, before they were illegal.
And like, that's why we have no geniuses now, because everything's illegal. Yeah.
I like that theory. Just like nobody is having, like back in the Bible,
everybody was having premonitions and everybody was getting visited by angels
and demons. Well, that ain't happening anymore because we probably aren't allowed to do drugs.

(01:13:04):
Allegedly. Well, what is it? Is it Washington? That...
De-legalized like all the drugs. De-criminalized. De-criminalized all the drugs.
Was it Washington or Oregon? Oh, Washington. I thought you were talking D.C.
Washington State and Oregon decriminalized. Yeah, everything.
Well, yeah, because those mushrooms grow everywhere out there.

(01:13:24):
That's where they come from. Do you think people are out there grazing like
cows on these mushrooms?
Yes, I've watched YouTube videos. Oh, really? Oh, that's great. That was a joke.
That's hilarious. I wouldn't say grazing. they're speaking
from like a scientific perspective but
also like the physical um

(01:13:44):
because i literally pictured him on all fours eating on the ground you did picture
that i bet you did not in that way frank dirty girl okay archaeological and
genetic evidence could provide important clues about the historical use of psychedelics
and their impact on human evolution.
For example, the discovery of ancient artifacts or cave paintings depicting

(01:14:08):
psychedelic mushrooms could support the idea that early humans used these substances.
Genetic studies could also shed light on the evolutionary mechanisms underlying
the brain's response to psychedelics and their potential role in shaping human cognitive behavior.
Isn't it true that psychedelic mushrooms meld so well with the brain?

(01:14:30):
Yeah it the physical structure
of the chemical compound compound fits
perfectly with the receptor that it is yeah that's
what i thought it's almost as if it was made for that that's crazy it's the
perfect key to the lock yeah that's crazy yeah so and it also like rejects any

(01:14:53):
of the other other chemicals that will fit in there but it blocks them while
this is being absorbed oh Oh, wow.
Yeah. So it's like a VIP. Yes. Yeah. That's crazy.
I thought I read that somewhere. All right. I'm happy to know I was correct.
I love mushrooms of all kinds. Food ones, killer ones. You do have a mushroom knife.

(01:15:16):
Creepy ones. I have a question though. Mm-hmm. Is it really that shocking that
penises have a mushroom shape?
Maybe it's another drug. It is. you ladies are so lucky and the fellas out there
who enjoy them too I know but you guys you know you guys should be receiving them yeah,

(01:15:36):
much more frequently than you are. You don't know what goes on at my house? I have video.
Creep? That is very creepy. I did not sign a consent form. Sir.
Oh, you did. You just don't remember.
Was I a mushroom? You were.
Longitudinal and comparative studies can help assess the long-term effects of

(01:15:58):
psychedelics on cognitive and psychological development.
By studying the impact of psychedelics on modern populations over extended periods,
researchers can gain insights into their potential contributions to individuals
and societal well-being.
Comparative studies of different cultures and their historical use of psychedelics
can also provide valuable information about the diverse ways in which these

(01:16:21):
substances have influenced human societies.
As research on psychedelics continues to expand, the ethical and policy considerations
must be addressed to ensure the response and equitable use of these substances.
This includes developing guidelines for safe and informed psychedelic use,
protecting the rights and knowledge of indigenous communities,

(01:16:44):
and addressing issues of access and affordability.
By fostering an ethical and inclusive approach to psychedelic research and practice,
we can maximize the potential benefits of these substances for individuals and society as a whole.
I do agree there that we need, I, my personal belief is that as an adult,

(01:17:05):
you should be able to put whatever you want in your body.
You should be able to take whatever you want as long as you're not harming other
people or yourself. So I do agree that.
With that, you need a safe space to do it in, right?
And I don't mean just safe as in space as an accepting place,
but like you said, Luna, plenty of times during this episode,

(01:17:30):
things can go wrong. You can have bad trips.
And when that does happen, there needs to be precautions to help you safely through that bad trip.
So yeah, I think that is a very intelligent and smart way of taking psychedelics
and then also the study and research behind it.

(01:17:52):
The stone ape theory remains a provocative and imaginative hypothesis that changes
conventional views on human evolution.
While it offers an intriguing perspective on the potential role of psychedelics
in shaping human consciousness and culture, it is essential to approach the
theory with a critical mind.
Further research and evidence are necessary to evaluate its validity and relevance

(01:18:15):
to our understanding of human origins.
Regardless of its acceptance, the stoned ape theory continues to inspire discussions
about the complex interplay between biology, culture, and the mind.
It invites us to consider the possibility that our ancestors' encounters with
psychedelics may have played a role in the extraordinary development of human

(01:18:36):
intelligence and creativity.
As we continue to explore the mysteries of our evolutionary past,
the stone ape theory serves as a reminder of the many factors that may have
contributed to the unique nature of human consciousness.
The stone ape theory, despite its speculative nature, offers a thought-provoking
framework for understanding the potential influences of psychedelics and human evolution.

(01:18:58):
By examining the historical, cultural, neurochemical, and social dimensions
of this theory, we can gain deeper insights into our origins of human cognition and culture.
Whether accepted or not, the Stone Ape Theory encourages us to explore the rich
and multifaceted history of human development and to appreciate the diverse
factors that have shaped our species' unique capabilities and experiences.

(01:19:22):
So what are you guys' final thoughts here as we conclude this episode on the Stone Ape Theory?
They lied to us in D.A.R.E. In D.A.R.E.?
Yeah. D.A.R.E. only told the stories of the people jumping out of windows and stuff like that.
Yeah. bad negative stuff yeah i mean of course that's to scare you so i would

(01:19:43):
say this like open my mind up
and it's like my mind is blown now with thinking in a different way about psychedelics
and well this is what i've been talking to you about for years now yeah just
go sit through in one ear not the other yeah well i mean like there is basis
like i don't just say shit to say shit like i do Do you? Well, sometimes you do. Yeah.

(01:20:04):
Yes. And we all know when I do that. But when we're having a serious conversation,
no matter how fucked up the subject is, I do have credence as to say the things that I say.
I do do my research and my reading. Do do.
I do do all over myself. Would you guys wear a diaper?

(01:20:25):
How did we land up here?
Like, like if, like. No, not willingly.
Not willingly no like if you won't go to the uh resort they dress you up as
a baby the diapers yeah no that
was was that episode four go back in the archives and listen to that guys,
yeah yeah that'd be great all right so anyway yeah i i do like know what i'm

(01:20:49):
talking about like i i don't just all over myself just because yeah you do let's be real.
So does it change your opinion on psychedelics? I don't remember if you were
a yes or a no, if you were interested or not.
I never said no, that I wouldn't be interested, but I was always very,
I would be cautious. I want to make sure I'm in a safe area if I do it. Sure.

(01:21:12):
Because I'd be too freaked out on what would happen. Like you mentioned,
there is a lot of lows with the highs.
So I just want to make sure when I get to those lows, I'm in a safe spot.
For sure. They're quick. like it's
like five minutes two minutes five minutes two minutes
oh yeah i'm pretty sure like when you're experiencing it though

(01:21:33):
doesn't feel like it's no it doesn't it feels like it's
like days and days i could yeah all right awesome
yeah yeah i'm game let's let's
allegedly get together and do do
do a mushroom do we need to go to washington state like a
portobello yeah yeah we can do a mushroom shiitake yeah yeah well that's my

(01:21:54):
penis oh yeah we need to go to washington state as a lion's mane as a lion's
mane well you know i i have more than one breed of mushroom i do have the lion's
mane and the shiitake with a portabella.
And a bull eating the butt and the bull eating the butt but so strange.

(01:22:18):
I mean, when we were at the para, yeah, yeah.
I know. I was the time we were in the forest. She's like mushroom,
mushroom, mushrooms, booping mushrooms.
Cause you want to spread the spores. There's some of the trees.
Spread them spores, baby. I like to spread legs, but spread the shrooms.
Yeah. So we should, we should do a movie while we do a mushroom. Mm hmm.

(01:22:42):
She was like nope not doing it
very fast yeah i wouldn't watch a scary movie when you do
that oh so oh we should watch a scary movie i
i want no you don't want to do i want i
want to do a mushroom only if you're
in a utica crib and i can lock you in there
so i know that you won't come axe murder me because you're tripping out man

(01:23:03):
i want to do a utica crib while i do a mushroom room while doing a scary movie
in a haunted location have fun i'll film you okay with my,
handy dandy camcorder all right sounds good all right well that wraps up this
episode on the stoned ape theory let us know what you think yeah send us emails

(01:23:29):
and tell us how your trips have have gone.
We'd love to hear them. Well, maybe they traveled to France or Spain or Amsterdam, Australia. Yeah.
Alright. That was a fun one. Yeah, we love you.
Can't wait to hear from you. Remember to subscribe, follow.

(01:23:52):
Like, subscribe, and follow. And comment.
Don't forget to comment. Alright, well, Frank. I'm Brie. And this is Lynette.
And this was an episode of Fringe.
Beyond Limits. Bye.
Music.