Discussion on ‘Sunrise on the Reaping’ (2025) by The Fanbase Weekly Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
The odds are always in my favor when there's new
Hunger Games content coming out and Friends listeners. I am
so proud to announce that I was able to return
to the fan Base Weekly podcast, one of our very
favorite copods.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Wait a minute, who wait out here in the universe.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
I don't know who you are? A brand new listener
to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Oh well, hello and welcome. You've picked a very bold
episode to Sorry you have. I am Ashley Victoria Robinson,
a Canadian comic book writer, and you are Jason Emman,
you're a Canson TV writer.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, and this is a very special episode because this
is a this is a team up. We went to
the Battle Royale Arena. Oh sorry, we went to the Capital.
I was trying to I was trying to make like
all the references to all the We were putting kids
in a ring and we're making them fight to the day.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
It's called the ear.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
But this is a very special episode because we're teaming
up with some good podcast the Friends of Ours and
Ashley recorded a very special episode of their podcast. The
fan Base Press are run by the amazing Bryant and
Barbara Dyllon, who are have been one we should just
say they're experts on the Hunger Games and the Hunger
Games franchise because they a long time ago made their

(01:21):
own sort of web series podcast series about the Hunger.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
The Catenus Chronicles, which, by the way back in the
live journal days, if you know, you know, we all
listen to.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Yeah, I don't. I was gonna say, I actually don't
know if it's still available, but.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
It is, in fact, I know, I know it is
in fact a pods or had You can listen to them.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
When you're done with this, listen to it. But Ashley,
so you guys teamed up because there is a new
Hunger Games book.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
That is Rise on the Reaping, and it's available everywhere
right now, right right now. It is the best selling
and most well reviewed book of the year. Is it
really as opposed to and I'll say with my full
chestnic Storm, which was the best selling but not best
reviewed book, of these.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
Are all literary references that I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
I look, I've read all the Fourth Wings. It's not
a drag that a fourth Wing. It's the third fourth Wing. Okay,
But I am prouder that the fifth Hunger Games.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Book did better.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Look, I am such an old man now that I
am completely not on book talk, so I have no
I've heard a fourth Wing, but we're not talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Fourth No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
I'm here to talk about Battle Royal. I mean the
Hunger Game exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Sunrise on the Reaping, which is about a character that
actually Jason really likes in the universe, hemich Abernath.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Okay, I have to ask you real quick, sir, that
is a weird title. What the hell does that mean?
Sunrise on the Reaping the Reaping?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Yes, as you may recall ceremony where they pulled the
tributes for each district.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
What's a tribute?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Attribute is to the person who's gonna go fight in
Hunger Games.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Okay, you know, by the way, everybody, we do have
an episode on the Hunger Games.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
It's way back at it's episode eight.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I'm going to say it's episode fourteen.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's quite early.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Wow. So today you guys with our special friends fan
Base Press, you talked about basically this new book what
it means. Did you guys get any other interesting topics
or anything we've asked?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I mean we talked about how Susanne Collins has
tackled falling into the trap of writing prequels.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
So many great.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Creators of amazing franchises, do we think we sort of
all shared, uh, the opinion that she does a really
good job, and we sort of lay out why.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Collins is a really good pro writer.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
She's a really very good especially that way.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
She is a great writer.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, she's a great writer.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yes, sorry, Susan, you're you are. Look she's way more
successful and a better writer than me.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
So let's just say, yeah, well we'll make it up
to you any time.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Come over to our house. Why not come to our arena.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Ye, come into our arena.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Fight.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
There's open invitation right now for Susanne Collins.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Naturally, anytime.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And we sort of get into why Hamich is such
an interesting character to choose to give this kind of spin.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
To and for the normies like me. Hamich was the
character played by Woody Harrelson in the movie.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yes, and he is the mentor to our lead characters
in the original Hunger Games trilogy. He's he's a former
winner of the Hunger Game.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I will tell you because I've forgotten a lot of
things from the Hunger Games movies and books, and I've
read them all, I've seen them all. Hamich is one
of the things that I do remember. He is one
of my favorite characters from that franchise.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
And Bryant led us through a really interesting conversation about
how the Hunger Games stories, even though they are so bleak,
how there's a lot of hope to be found in
them when you are struggling with something cool. So I'm
really proud of this discussion. And I think we have
shared in the past one of the Godzilla discussions that
I joined fan Base Weekly for, so I know people
really like that, So I think they're going to dig

(04:37):
this as well.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Perfect all right, So everybody, get ready, get your snacks,
get your weapons.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Four district for District four.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Maybe you understand what Ashley is chanting and get ready
for this. I understand what he's saying, but I'm playing
the movie page. Get ready, bring your snacks in, get
your weapons ready, get your mutant dog ready. I remember that.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I remember that too.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I don't I don't know. Wasn't one Was that one
of the guys that almost played Aquaman in this movie
or something like that. Isn't there like an Aukamanny guy?
Minic isn't his name?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I remember this he did not almost play.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh that's why I think he's awkward.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Here here, here's a reference. We can leave everyone else.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
Make sure that you killed Jack Quaid in the opening
moments of the Hunger Games. That happens in movie one.
Jack Quade plays Marvel. He dies in the opening two minutes.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Wait his name is Marvel. Yeah, what a weird name.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
Welcome to pan m baby.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
This is his sister Comics.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Sure, I'm gonna say yes, here's.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
My two children of Marvel and.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Comics in a post MCU world, I would not put
that back.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Post apocalyptic. Yeah, which is even though they don't look
like they are post apocalyptic.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
What do you think we're gonna look like post apocalyptic?

Speaker 3 (05:50):
I mean just we're just gonna have a home depot whatever,
courn it's a gonna look like Jennifer Loss. It's going
to be a home depots and a Chick fil A
on every corner.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Whichever Hemsworth brothers in the urban sprawl.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Oh go look at it. That's what always. So we're
going into a very nice discussion about Sunrise and the
Reaping Battle Royale.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Did I get that title right?

Speaker 4 (06:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Nailed it.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Every Hunger Games fan is so mad at me right now,
It's okay, all right, so uh so buck up. I
don't know whatever, however you want to introduce this, let's go.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Well, you put your pods on, get your mocking Jay's ready,
and may the odds be ever in your favor.

Speaker 5 (06:30):
Show listeners, and welcome to a new episode of a
fan based weekly podcast. This is a special edition of
the show as we are conducting a panel discussion on
the recently released Hunger Games novel Sunrise.

Speaker 6 (06:42):
On the Reaping.

Speaker 5 (06:44):
Before we introduce my wonderful panelists that are joining me,
I do want to note that all episodes of the
fan Base Weekly this month are sponsored by Hellmouth Con.
That is the Buffy and Angel themed con coming to
Southern California Torrance, California specifically. We're honored to have Hellmouth
Con as a sponsor and look forward to sharing more
about that event later in the show. But let's move

(07:08):
on to the panel. I do want to introduce them
first off, For anyone that doesn't know who I am,
I'm Brian Dylan. I am co founder of fan Base
Press and also co host of the fan Base Weekly podcast.

Speaker 6 (07:20):
I'll be your moderator for this episode.

Speaker 5 (07:23):
And we are joined by a number of fantastic and
Hunger you guess it almost tributes for the discussion, if
you will, If we want to get really dark, let's
start off with Jessica Jessica Mason, who is a writer
whose work explores a wide variety of themes, including family, survival, injustice,
and the environment. Plastic Girls are coming of age series

(07:46):
set in a climate apocalypse, and Mary Shelley's School for
Monsters is her horographic novel series. More about her and
her company we can be found at Wicked Tree press
dot com. Jessica, welcome back for another Hunger Game discussion.

Speaker 7 (08:00):
All right, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (08:02):
I'm excited of course. Next up we have Ashley V. Robinson.
She's a three time Ringo nominated comic book writer whose
credits include Jupiter Jet and Aurora and the Eagle, and
Ashley is also co host of the geek History to
Wesson podcast. Ashley, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Strict four.

Speaker 6 (08:21):
For we're already.

Speaker 5 (08:24):
Dividing the people. Last, but not least, we're also joined
by Becca Lear. She's a Hunger Game super fan who
has forced all of our friends to read the original
trophy of books back in the day and then also
forced everyone to attend the midnight screaming of the first film,
including myself and Barbara. We were there, and The Hunger

(08:44):
Games was a gateway book into a full blown dystopian ya, fantasy,
sci fi, and romanticy book obsession that finds a reading
around one hundred books per year.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
So excellent, Becca, you neglected to mention it.

Speaker 5 (08:59):
But we also were on a really meaningful, I would
say fan project, The Catnus Chronicles, which is an audio
drama adaptation of those first three books.

Speaker 8 (09:10):
I wasn't sure if I should call that out.

Speaker 9 (09:13):
To be totally honest, it's one of my most favorite
things that we've done.

Speaker 5 (09:19):
I feel exactly the same and so glad to have
you as part of this discussion.

Speaker 6 (09:22):
So thanks for joining us.

Speaker 8 (09:24):
I'm happy to be here.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
Well, I will offer a spoiler warning anyone who has
not finished the book, which hey, I understand it, it just
came out. Please come back because we're going to spoil
all of it. We're just going to cover everything. So
if you are worried about spoilers, come to this conversation
after you've had time to finish. Sunrise On the Reading
is a twenty twenty five dystopian novel written by the

(09:47):
American author Suzanne Collins, and the second prequel novel to
the original, The Hunger Game's trilogy, following twenty twenties The
Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Set twenty four years before
the events of the first novel, The narrative delves into
themes of political manipulation, the power of propaganda, and the
complexities of societal control under a tautalitarian regime, and centers

(10:12):
on the experiences of Hemich Abernathy. The story begins on
the morning of the reaping of the fiftieth Hunger Games,
also known as the Second Quarter Quell, which is won
by Hemich. As shown in Catching Fire by the Capital's tapes.
For the second Quarter Quell, the Capital reaped twice the
number of tributes to compete in the Hunger Games. This

(10:34):
isn't keeping with the tradition of adding a cruel twist
to the games for each quarter quell. The arena for
the games appears to be luscious, but nearly everything is poisonous.
While in the arena, Hamich allies himself with fellow District
twelve tribute Maisley Donner, who saves his life by shooting
a poisonous start into a fellow tribute. Hamich realizes that

(10:56):
a force field surrounds the arena and that anything thrown
at it bounces back before hearing Masley being killed by
genetically modified birds. In his final showdown with a career
girl from District I, Hamich strategically dodges her axe throw
and allows it to hit the force field, where it
bounces back and hits her in the face, killing her

(11:18):
and making him the winner of the games since he
has outlasted the other tributes. Unfortunately, as punishment for using
the arena to his advantage, Hamich's mother, brother, and girlfriend
are all murdered upon orders from President Snow. Haunted by
this loss, Hamich retreats into isolation in the Victor's village,

(11:39):
distancing himself from former friends out of fear for their safety.
Yet during the Victor's Tour, Plutarch's encouragement spurs him to
keep fighting. In the epilogue, set after the original series,
Hamish begins to open up the catnusimpeda about his past,
finding a measure of solace and caring for gifted goose
egg in memory of Leonor Dove Now, this novel has

(12:03):
sold over one point five million copies worldwide in his
first week, marking it the biggest debut of any title
in Suzanne Collins the Hunger Game series. In the United
States alone, the book sold one point two million copies,
more than twice the opening sales of The Ballot of
Songbirds and Snakes in over three times that of Mockingjay.

Speaker 6 (12:25):
Now. Critics have been very kind and supportive of this book.

Speaker 5 (12:28):
The New York Times called Sunrise on the Reaping a brutal, propulsive,
and heart wrenching addition to the Hunger Game series. Capesandtights
dot com said the prequel is an unforgettable reading experience
that is full of action and emotion that actually rivals
the first novel in many ways, and Pace Magazine raved
that Colin's second Hunger Games prequel is genuinely outstanding, a

(12:52):
prequel that definitely balances an emotional origin story with a
shrewd exploration of propaganda in PanAm. It's also important to
know that if film adaptation has already been announced, it's
in production and is set to be released by Lionsgate
on November twentieth, twenty twenty six, but I want to

(13:15):
know what the three of you really think about this novel.
What are your first general reactions to finishing Sunrise on
the Reaping? And also, I would love if you want
to add, what's your personal relationship you know, with this
franchise or with these novels.

Speaker 6 (13:33):
Jessica, why don't you start us off?

Speaker 4 (13:36):
Okay, well, let's see. My personal relationship with these novels
is that I think I read the first one when
I first had I was a new mother, and I
just devoured them.

Speaker 7 (13:49):
I read one and couldn't stop.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
I had to read all three of them in a
less than a week, which is I don't know if
your new mother ever if that's a fee.

Speaker 7 (13:59):
And I just related so much. I just love the
way she wrote young people.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
I loved how she put him in these situations that
explored war and conflict and propaganda all that stuff, and
did it in this really great, dramatic horrible not great,
but horrible setting and just brought out in a weird way,
brought out the best in every single character that's in

(14:23):
the arena, which I thought was amazing doing it individually,
and she did.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
Do that again in this book.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
I think you got to see most of the characters
best at their best, especially one of my new favorites,
Mesle Lee. I thought, I always love a character that
you think you're gonna hate and then you end up loving,
and so I do really think it's a great addition
to the Hunger Games.

Speaker 7 (14:46):
It's not my favorite one, but I did really enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
And I mean, Hamich is probably one of my top
three favorite characters in the Hunger Games, so I think
everyone was dying to know more about him and to
watch him his story, so I did.

Speaker 7 (15:02):
I was not disappointed in that.

Speaker 5 (15:03):
So excellent. Excellent Ashley. What are your thoughts on Sunrise
on the Reaping.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, so all I want from Sunrise on the Reaping
is it for to out sell on ax Storm. So
I need to get that off the bat right from
the start. If you have not purchased your copy, please
do it just for I would consider it a personal favor.
But we could knock Fourth Wing off of the best
book of the year, although I will be extra petty

(15:32):
and say that Summer's on the Reaping is much higher rated.
I have also read all the Fourth Wing books. Drag
on me. Really, it's been so interesting for me reading
these two prequel stories because Sian Collins has this uncanny
ability to pick characters that I don't care about and
don't want any more story from, and then I'm wrong

(15:53):
every I'm wrong both times so far, Like I am
the very basic girl out here being like give me
Finix book, that's all I want, and like, I just
want the pretty boy and told me that he was
sad and cried one time. And That's what I've really
loved about reading them and why I knew I was
gonna read Summers and the Reaping very early because I

(16:14):
was one of the people who waited on Songbirds and Snakes.
I actually waited to see what Barburon and Bryant had
to say about it because I knew they would be
a great litmus test for whether it was worth my
time or not. And it was like an emphatic like
yes should be. I checked out all the coverage. I
was like, Okay, we'll go right to Summerson. Then I, boy, boy,
was I wrong. I'm happy to say I feared that

(16:36):
because this is so much closer to the time that
we know from the Hunger Games that it was going
to be a little bit like, Oh, Catenus Redux Catnus Light,
and I know we're going to get indisposed, but it's
very much not that which I thought was really impressive.
I think it's easily like to echo Jessica, the best
written of the five books we've had so far, and
just to deliver this fun fact about me, like it's

(16:58):
a flex, but it's not a flex. My first sudition
in Los Angeles was for Catnus and it's about as
far as it went. So it's not that good a story.
So my connection to the Hunger Games and how seriously
I take my opinions is very deep and real.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Well, we appreciate it and we take it very seriously
as well. Here, Becca, what are your thoughts on this
new Hunger Games game and what's your relationship with the franchise.

Speaker 9 (17:27):
I really loved the book. I really loved the expansion
of the world. I was cheering every time a character
that I recognized came in, especially Effie because I'll talk
about that later, but I was very, very excited to
see her in particular. And yeah, I was just very

(17:48):
like I basically stayed I read it in one day.
I just stayed up all night and read it, which
is very on brand for me. But and my relationship
to this book, as I told you in my bio,
is probably a little bit of an unhealthy obsession. Where
when I moved to Los Angeles, my very first internship,

(18:11):
I had my boss who was like in charge of
the interns, was like, you should read these books. I
think you would like them, and I started reading them.
Mocking J wasn't even out yet, so I read The
Hunger Games and I read Catching Fire, and then I immediately,
as I mentioned, made every single person I know read
them as well, and then they were really mad at

(18:33):
me because obviously it ends on a cliffhanger, and like
Mocking J wasn't out yet. And then, as I also mentioned,
when the movie came out, I bought twenty tickets immediately
to the midnight showing and was like, great, I'm just
going to find twenty people to come to this screening
with me and Francis Lawrence actually showed up and introduced

(18:53):
the screening, as you probably remember, Bright because you were.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
There with me.

Speaker 8 (18:58):
So yeah, I would call it unhealthy obsession.

Speaker 9 (19:03):
Is my relationship with all of these books.

Speaker 6 (19:10):
I don't think.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
I don't know if it's unhealthy, but I was definitely
caught in the obsession net and I don't know, you know,
there are so many things.

Speaker 6 (19:20):
I love about these stories and these characters.

Speaker 8 (19:25):
Oh wait, it wasn't Francis Lawrence.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
It was Gary. It was Gary what's his name name?
I'm forgetting his name right now? Yeah, director of present film.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
It was from before the Snap.

Speaker 6 (19:37):
It was yeah, right, right now.

Speaker 5 (19:41):
It's okay, Francis Lawrence has directed everything else, so it
makes sense. But yeah, it's you know, it's it's fascinating.
I thank you Becca for for having a hand in
getting me obsessed with these books.

Speaker 6 (19:56):
And I can I remember that time.

Speaker 5 (19:58):
I remember through those first two books, waiting for that
third one to come out, and like just driving in
my car. I think I had a dog walking job
at the time, so I spent a lot of time
my car driving in the Hollywood Hills and I would
just listen to I remember listening to a lot of
Lacuna Coil if anyone knows that band, and knew I

(20:19):
just daydreaming about the Hunger Games, and I just got
so obsessed with it that, you know, I was part
of the inciting force that we mentioned brought Becca and
a few other friends Barbara included to do an audio
drama adaptation before the films came out, and just because
we were so inspired by it, and I echio everyone's

(20:42):
thoughts about this book. I am so impressed at how
close it flies to the sun and that it doesn't melt,
you know, everything that you would think about, like a
reboot or a soft reboot or an additional chapter.

Speaker 6 (20:58):
You're like, oh, I don't know, on paper, that doesn't
make sense. Should we Oh? Should we see all these
characters we know? Should they all be connected to Hamish?
I don't know. That sounds really dangerous, but it works
so well.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
And I remember reading parts of it when I was like, well,
of course he knows these people, Like I don't know why.
It's not obvious to me, but it wasn't at the time.
And as you start to like fall in place and
go like, well, yeah, he had these relationship with all
these victors previously, you know, like he had to meet
some of them the first round. So so much of

(21:31):
that was so interesting. And then to have reveals about
characters we knew. You know, we have characters who lose
people or suffer trauma in this story, lots of people
who obviously suffer trauma, but it just seems to be
such intelligent, thoughtful, subtle storytelling and weaving. What I find

(21:53):
really interesting is I was a little more distanced from
Songbirds and Snakes. I liked it, but it felt separate,
you know, And this one has sort of grown the
entire book series together. There are there are tendrils that
I was like, I didn't realize she was planting these

(22:13):
seeds with these characters in that first prequel, but now
they pay off in so many interesting ways, and it
doesn't feel it doesn't feel retcond necessarily to me. It
feels like, even if this wasn't known, it just again
it feels like a natural fit.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
It feels like she had a and I think this
would have been before iPhones, but I don't know what
time is. It feels like she had a note on
her phone where she was like, these are great lines
that I wrote, these are interesting bits, and then they
paid off now because I think one of the first
things that we're told about Hamig is that he's a
drunk bum and he's a drunk bumb because he comes
out of one of the most violent hunger games ever
and just knowing that the entire book makes sense. And

(22:56):
that's like some random line from chapter four of the
first Hunger Games.

Speaker 5 (23:01):
But right, well, and and and then I think even
more like what how fascinating and how interesting to show
us his games in that second book and catching Fire
and then not hint in any way like we should
have known, Hey, these this isn't everything. You know, the
games are always manipulated, We're always shown a version.

Speaker 6 (23:24):
But to approach like, hey, we're going to do a.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
Sequel with the idea of, well, what if what you
saw was the propaganda and here is here is the
you know, the real events that happened underneath it. It's
just so interesting and intelligent and so thematically, I don't know,
the DNA of it is already in the in the trilogy.

(23:47):
It doesn't feel like, oh, we just had to think
up a Norther story. It feels like it's supporting the
main thrust of the story. And now I feel like,
and we'll get into this, but what's really interesting is
I would love to talk to you all and a
little bit about the idea of how rebellion and resistance
manufactures and how it's generational, and how this story is

(24:11):
now revealing like, Hey, this fight who you have come
in and thought was catnus Is? And sure, we see
in that story, Oh it's everyone's fight. But she is
just one figure over decades of suffering, in decades of
protests and decades of attempts, and she just happens to
be the one the tipping point, you know, which is

(24:33):
really interesting to illustrate in a fictional story like this.
But what I would do I would love to turn
to is scenes that stuck out to you. There's so
many fantastic scenes in this book, So let's go around
and just figure out what everyone thinks, uh, you know,
really really stood out to them and in their first

(24:54):
reading of the book, Becca, why don't you start us
off on this? What stands out to you?

Speaker 8 (24:58):
Oh my gosh, how do I pick?

Speaker 9 (25:03):
The first thing that obviously stood out to me was
like the Covey connection and the connections to songbird and snake,
and like the medallion slash flint firestarter that Leonora gives him,
that is like literally songbirds and snakes. I'm like, but
I only have like more questions. I'm like, wait, but
what does this mean? Where are you going with this?

(25:26):
Susan hearing about Wyrus' games really struck me as well.

Speaker 8 (25:32):
I was fascinated by that.

Speaker 9 (25:34):
And again, I feel like you only kind of get
you know, Haymtch only saw what they wanted him to see,
So I feel like there's more there. And then the
conversations that he has with BT around like trying to
take down the arena and then knowing that it's literally
twenty five years later when they accomplish this, and you're like,

(25:55):
holy shit, those are like the first three I just
like immediately keap to my mind, No.

Speaker 6 (26:03):
Those are those are great ones.

Speaker 5 (26:04):
And that that situation with BT is so interesting too
because we see such a personal moment of him losing
his son and being forced to mentor his son into
the games as punishment for some transgression. He lives with
that for for years, for decades and continue and doesn't
give up somehow, you know, which is really interesting Ashley.

(26:27):
What what stood out to you? What scenes are you know,
the big ones?

Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean, I'll go with I'll take what you said
with big ones to heart. I'm gonna go with the
really basic choice. And like, were any of us not
actually weeping for Maisley's death? Like there's a lot of
I know if anyone's not watching this is the way
Jessica discovered her face was like was the entire mood.
There are so many epic deaths in here, like John

(26:54):
wicksty like, this movie is gonna be something and I
hope they get a six fight director to make it
as cool as possible. But like it it's there's a
lot of interesting deaths for a number of reasons. But
the way Maisley's death also ties into again so many
other aspects that we're familiar with or we sort of

(27:15):
know are coming, like jabber Jay's the whole situation with Wellie,
like it's it's it's impactful and built up because she's
I mean, she's like the character we all want to
be right in the course of the book, So you know,
you know it's coming because you know how much wins,
so you know you're gonna be devastated by it. But
then just the way it unspools from that scene where

(27:37):
his heart is being stomped on into all these other
interesting aspects of the book and the larger narrative. I
just as I was making my notes, like thinking back
on this, and I was like, it's it's the obvious answer,
but It's like, it's the thing I'll be thinking about,
you know, until until I inevitably enter the games.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
It's so interesting. I don't know if the interesting is
right where. I guess.

Speaker 5 (27:58):
It's so admirable, I would say, am I in a
sense that Susanne Collins writes for this audience, this demographic
And I was reading this whole book, and I should
have known, because this is one of the reasons I
bonded with those books. She doesn't blink, She's telling serious stories.
They have violence, they cut out your heart sometimes that's

(28:20):
the point. But yeah, there were so many times in
this book where I was like, I know where we
have to go, but you're not really going to go there,
are you? And she went there every time. I mean,
I think of was it Welly the last one? I mean,
I feel like the last couple chapters, maybe the last

(28:41):
twenty pages of this book, I found myself brought to
tears many times, unexpectedly mazingly is a good one. But
the fact when hay Mitch has that moment where he
loses Welly, where he goes away. She's begging him not to,
but he has to, and then she dies, and I

(29:04):
don't even know what to say. The power of that
that moment is palpable.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
Brian, You talking about that is so interesting because it's
made me realize the scene that you were talking about
with Rebecca about Beat, like how much of a gift
that is because he is this character that we know
and it isn't actually really nice expansion of their dynamic.
And you're like, well, I know he makes something catch
you fired, so he won't get nerved in this one

(29:32):
of my heart won't get stomped on, Like what a
gift that is at the beginning of the book before
and what we've known since ru right before she said
College just says all stuff on uf on your heart.

Speaker 5 (29:42):
Too well, and a what a parallel to Like I
can't think about this, especially now with the generational stories,
and not think about like how it's a parallel to
resistance movements fights for the civil rights or rights of
any kind human rights within our own world, because they

(30:05):
are essentially taking the heroes of the oppressed and just crushing.

Speaker 6 (30:09):
Them over and over.

Speaker 5 (30:10):
When you think about the idea that BT did something,
he went to the Hunger Games, he did something that
you know, insulted the capital, was punished for that by
putting his child in there, and then what like decades later,
is then forced to go back into the games as

(30:31):
a final punishment.

Speaker 6 (30:32):
I mean, it's just.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Literature, folks, children's literature.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
You know, it's it's very I guess it's very relevant
as we live in a world that gets crueler and
cruel crueler. But but yeah, I just wanted to say
I was struck by how well Collins handles not not
blinking in those moments, that that whole end is a
lot of pain, but worthwhile, not not for.

Speaker 6 (30:59):
Exploitives. I guess.

Speaker 5 (31:00):
Yeah, Jessica, what what scenes stood out to you?

Speaker 6 (31:05):
Well?

Speaker 7 (31:06):
I was very taken aback by Luella.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
And one thing that I all of the scenes that
you guys are referencing, the one thing that I love
about Haimig and what they brought to it.

Speaker 7 (31:16):
Is he's such that guy friend. He's such a good
older brother, a good like ally.

Speaker 4 (31:22):
Even when he doesn't want to be, he's there, you know,
and he's not being parental, he's being like, you know, equal,
And I love that about the character and what they
gave him because it leads up to Catnus in.

Speaker 7 (31:33):
This really great way.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
But Luela got me so bad because I was like, oh,
they're allies, and I know she's gonna die, but I
don't know, did anyone actually expect her to die before
they went into the arena. And then they brought Lulu
in and then that was heartbreaking. And then he's forced
and then like Maslely's like his last possible choice and
she goes, you don't want me, he doesn't want to

(31:57):
be with us, and then they then they just be
the best team. And I don't know, those all the
really intimate moments with him and those strong female characters
all very different, even when they're at their weakest. Like
you said, Wiley, it's Wiley, right, I was forgetting yeah, welly, welly,
and when she's starving, she's even being strong. It's they're

(32:19):
just all those little moments with those all those female
characters in him were just really nice.

Speaker 7 (32:25):
I mean, they were just really.

Speaker 4 (32:26):
Profound and beautiful, and I just love how they all were.

Speaker 7 (32:31):
They were still were holding on to what was them and.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Talking about it like that's what maybe the trauma does
of living in that world, is that it was right
there on the surface all the time, and they're always
exploring it, even when they're just eating something or it's
like always being talked about.

Speaker 8 (32:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
So, I mean Luelo really got me and led up
to all of this. I just and then they replaced
her and that was the worst. Plutarch's that seen in
Plutarch with Snow was very intense and I forgot I
didn't look up plue charts through the whole book. I'm like,
I know he's a main character somewhere.

Speaker 7 (33:04):
I'm gonna have to.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
And then I got done reading the book, I'm like, oh,
he's that main character, which is like I should have
looked it up.

Speaker 7 (33:09):
While I was could, but I read it in the
day and I have to, so I was like, I'll
get to it. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (33:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (33:14):
So I've loved a lot of the scenes, but those
are my Those.

Speaker 6 (33:17):
Got me for sure. Those were those were all fantastic scenes.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
The library scene is it was a very intense and
interesting one. And it's interesting how we have so much
revealed about Plutarch and even Snow. More about Snow that
is is revealing but also still caged in mystery to
some degree. You know that.

Speaker 6 (33:36):
That's really fascinating.

Speaker 5 (33:39):
The one thing that I wanted to mention before we
move on to Another topic is just the epilogue. I
as someone who loved the you know, the first trilogy,
I had a very distinct emotional memory of getting mocking
Jay that you know, and tearing through it and finishing it.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
You know.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
I think my wife was asleep somewhere in the house.
I finished it by myself. I sat there and I cried,
and I was like, this is perfect, Like it just
hit every note for me and was such a well needed,
well written and much needed story about trauma and what
war does to all of us, and that you can

(34:26):
come back from it, but you're not.

Speaker 6 (34:28):
That you still live with it day to day no
matter what.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
It's both hopeful but appropriately bleak in, you know in
some ways.

Speaker 6 (34:38):
And I just felt like this was the same deal.

Speaker 5 (34:40):
It was such a treat, and again, I feel like
one of those things where it could be dangerous, like oh,
we're going to dip back into, you know, past the ending,
but it was such a treat to see Hamich sort
of amid some of these things and just get a
tiny little peek into like, yeah, there's still healing.

Speaker 8 (34:58):
You know.

Speaker 5 (34:59):
They're trying to live with all this that they've been through,
but things are better to some degree that things can
get better to some degree. So I think that's a
really important message that these books carry.

Speaker 6 (35:12):
Let's let's dive more into Hamage.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
We've got this interesting protagonists, someone we think we knew,
who you know, we find a very different side of
how does he work as a protagonist for everyone? And
is there anything that you feel like this book revealed
about Hamage that you were unaware of or did not
realize previously. Ashley, why don't you start us off on

(35:36):
this one.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
It's funny because even though he's presented to us here
as a teenager, I think because this is a prequel,
he's still weirdly daddy throughout the whole story, and we
when we see him taking on these mentor rules. It
reminded me, if you're a comic books reader, a lot
of how Wolverine just picks whatever helpless teenage girl is around.
It is like, I'm your daddy, now, don't worry about it.

Speaker 7 (36:00):
One of my.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Favorite tropes is like an older male mentor looking after
a young female. Arguably he doesn't succeed very well because
most of them don't make it out alive, but seeing
that nurturing aspect I found very profound. Like I said, Hey,
I could have taken her left Hamich before that just

(36:21):
didn't really factor for me. And I do think he's
a good mentor figure for Catnus, and it's that interesting
dynamic where you know healers as much of her issue
does from him. But to see that there's been a
thread of that always narratively running through who he is
as a person, and then so much of it who
I'm gonna get emotional hanging on the death of his family.

(36:44):
I thought that was like really humanizing and really illuminating
about the man that he comes to be sort of
at the beginning of the Hunger Games.

Speaker 6 (36:54):
I definitely agree with all that. I think that's definitely.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Agree with Daddy. Thank you so much.

Speaker 6 (37:00):
I will give you.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
That, and I will also agree with the more tragic
emmens that you mentioned as well. But yeah, I can't
deny it. Hay Mitch is Daddy, Becca, what are your thoughts?
So what did you think about going in as having
Hamich as a protagonist and how did it turn out
in the end for you?

Speaker 8 (37:21):
I loved it.

Speaker 9 (37:22):
I actually have one who have always wanted this story,
so I was.

Speaker 8 (37:27):
I was very excited.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
But it's your fault. You're the one my fault.

Speaker 9 (37:32):
I'm so sorry you did get your phytics story manifesting.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
It's coming. They're never gonna stop making these, but.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I mean, I'll glory to you and your manifestation powers
because it truly did.

Speaker 9 (37:46):
I you know, I think weirdly, like I don't know,
I'm like a second book in the series Apologist, because
like normally that's the book that everyone hates, and I
think Catching Fire is one of my favorite books. Berg
Let alone, like the second in the series, so and
this just brings so much more of that world to life.

(38:09):
So I was loving it and that's what I wanted.
But you also asked like, what we kind of didn't
know about Hamich before?

Speaker 8 (38:17):
And I think, you know, I opened the book, I
started reading the chapters.

Speaker 9 (38:20):
I was like, oh God, there's a mom and a
brother that's not going to end well because we've never
heard about them before. So I was like, Fuck, what's
gonna happen to them? Also how he was reaped, because
that is like you literally I was like, okay, yeah,
like his name gets pulled out obviously and then nope,

(38:43):
total turn, Like obviously the guy runs and then Hamidge
tries to help his girl and then Drusilla is like, okay,
well I'm picking you, and then she fakes pulling his
name out, and I was shook from that. To be
totally honest.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
That is a great point because it's such an unexpected turn.
You like, you kind of think like, well, yeah, as
you said, Heymig is going to get his name pulled,
and when it's not pulled, you're like, what is going on?

Speaker 6 (39:17):
Where are we going now?

Speaker 5 (39:18):
And then I don't know again, going back to the
world we're living in, We're dealing right now currently with
this situation, this controversy, controversy, this horrific event where we
have sent people to El Salvador prisons claiming that they

(39:39):
are gang members or that we have a justification, and
now being revealed that even if that there was a justification,
it's the fake justification doesn't even hold up that many
of these people are not gang members, that they that
there have been clerical errors. I think is a word
that I heard today, and this is what this is.

(40:00):
This is a clerical error in the reaping, you know,
and no one cares because it's District twelve. The capital
needs to get what it needs. They pull this kid in.
No one, no one's going to protest it. And and
he you know, the the narrative is rewritten in front
of our eyes so that no one even realizes it.

(40:21):
It's it's terrifying, honestly, and it feels very much closer
to reality these days.

Speaker 6 (40:30):
Yeah. I guess all I will add about about Hamichu.

Speaker 5 (40:36):
Before I turned over to Jessica is that I found
it interesting how much I related to hamich in a
different way like when I. One thing that connected me
to the first novels was I had not seen a character,
a male character like Peter before, as someone who grew
up feeling outside the aggressive sort of male, you know,

(40:57):
peer environment that was around me, who was more attracted
to arts and beauty and sensitivity, but was also not
a pushover. Didn't it felt like I could stand up
for myself. I just felt like I related to this
character big time. And what I found so interesting about
hamich is he's really when we open up the book,

(41:18):
he's really a.

Speaker 6 (41:20):
Lover at heart.

Speaker 5 (41:21):
Everything his entire world is about his girl and he
just like wants to be with her all the time,
and the entire world revolves around that. And it just
makes you know everything that comes so much more painful,
which is so interesting. But I really I remember that
feeling like that in high school, where that you know,
you weren't worried about what was happening in the world

(41:42):
or bigger events because like life was so small and
being thrust into something bigger is really, you know, one
of those I guess life trials that forces you to mature.

Speaker 6 (41:56):
Jessica, what are your.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Thoughts on Hamich as a protagonist. I know you particularly
love this character.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I do love this character, and probably for a lot
of the reasons you just talked about. Like he's masculine
without being toxic. He isn't about forced first, but he's strong.
But what I really like about learning this this book
and Hamich in this book, is that he does he has.

Speaker 7 (42:22):
A rebel spirit. You know that.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Yes, I think is lit by his love for his girl,
because he doesn't want to look like and it like.

Speaker 7 (42:30):
He doesn't want to look like he doesn't care about.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
The cause on TV in front of her. That's I
mean a little bit of maybe narcissism.

Speaker 7 (42:36):
But I mean I think he has this rebel spirit.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
He says yes to things much quicker than I would
like they're like, You're gonna make this bomb and blow
up this thing, and I'd be like.

Speaker 7 (42:45):
Oh, am I, how am I going to be?

Speaker 4 (42:48):
And he just goes and does it and starts, you know,
like thro doing over to the end, you know, like doing.
And so I like seeing that part of that old,
buried part of Hamich.

Speaker 7 (42:58):
That you see that he's uncle.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
He's drink, you know, left at the end of a
bottle he doesn't touch anymore, and that like Catinus and Pete,
I have to like relighte, you know.

Speaker 7 (43:08):
And so I love seeing that about him. I love
seeing his rebel heart.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
I like when he just had these little conversations with
all the girls again like Measlee with the like the
poster reference and don't let them paint our poster and
all of that stuff was just really wonderful. The only
thing I didn't totally buy is in the end in
the epilogue with Hamidge, he says that his best friend's

(43:33):
daughter is Cantness, right, And I don't know if that
was always decided And maybe I'm wrong because he didn't
seem to approach Cantness as his best friend's daughter in
the original Hunger Games.

Speaker 8 (43:46):
But am I wrong.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
I am actually asking the group because I believe very
much everything about Hamdge until that end, and I was like, wait,
I love that it's his.

Speaker 7 (43:55):
Best friend's daughter. Don't get me wrong, I love that part.
But am I wrong? It didn't seem like Hamtch.

Speaker 4 (44:01):
Treated her like that in the Hunger Games, unless he
was just trying to pretend he didn't care about her.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
And I mean they seem to explain it by saying
that he drove his closest friends away out of fear
of them getting hurt. But I would agree that I
think it's the most ret connie.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
Fa in there.

Speaker 5 (44:20):
Yeah, because you're like, you have to accept that he's
just closed off and doesn't bring this this up with Catness,
And I can buy that to some degree, but but
I do think it takes a little stretch of the imagination.

Speaker 6 (44:34):
What do you what do you think back then, Ashley,
I was going to.

Speaker 9 (44:37):
Say, yeah, I think you mentioned this earlier, Briant, how
like he's trying intentionally pushing everyone away, like and how
he thinks it's to protect them.

Speaker 8 (44:48):
But I do find it, Yeah, a little hard to
believe that Cattness had like no inclination that like Haymich
was her dad's best friend.

Speaker 9 (44:56):
But I think he just was in such a dark
place at the end of not the epilogue, but like
at the end of this book because of all of
the Like again, I was reading this at one in
the morning, so I was a little unhinged myself, but
I was like, oh, a lot is happening right now,
like in these last twenty pages.

Speaker 8 (45:16):
And so I feel like my suspense of disleep. There
was also like what you said.

Speaker 9 (45:22):
Brian, Like he's just pushing everyone away, and like, maybe
you know, we've got twenty four years until he really
meets Catmus, so maybe you know he doesn't want her
to know these things. This might be a slate veer,
but I also think about how like Hamig goes through
this whole process of not trusting Plutarch.

Speaker 8 (45:41):
And Catnus has like the same.

Speaker 9 (45:43):
Arc, Like Hamich never says anything to her about Plutarch,
and I was like picked up on that.

Speaker 8 (45:49):
I was like, wait, I feel.

Speaker 9 (45:50):
Like I'm missing something here because Hamich does know about
Plutarch and that he's on their side.

Speaker 8 (45:55):
Anyways, maybe something to unpack later.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
It's really interesting too, because you you are left to
put it together a little bit how the rebellion forms. Like,
I mean, we always kind of knew that Hamich and
Plutarch and Sinna and a few others had plans at
least during catching Fire and maybe even before that.

Speaker 6 (46:15):
But this really, I guess see, I guess what what.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
I'm kind of realizing as you say this, Becca, is like,
maybe that's the answer for why we don't hear this
stuff about.

Speaker 6 (46:29):
What's his name? I know, mister Eberdeen. I can't remember.
He has some sort of strange damn I'm forgetting ready,
Rodick Broderick.

Speaker 5 (46:40):
I well, I'm what I'm what I guess what I'm
realizing is the.

Speaker 10 (46:47):
The the hope that that that Hamage is given is
Plutarch's plea, Like he's saying, hey, we can, we can
topple this, you can you can help me that that
can give purpose your life.

Speaker 6 (47:01):
So if your purpose is to appear.

Speaker 5 (47:03):
As a drunk and potentially like foment and uprising, I
guess I could buy like, well, I'm not going to
attach myself to anybody that I have even a remote
you know, care for, because I'm probably gonna die doing this,
and so is anyone else attached to me, you know,
sort of a suicide packed all these people are making.

Speaker 8 (47:26):
So I think I also thought, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 6 (47:29):
Actually I was gonna say.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
I think what we're really coming up against is this
is where the YA really shows itself, right, because sometimes
the door locks, because the door just has to lock,
and under certain auspices, you don't have to explain why
the door locks. I think we are getting really creative
ret cons. And as someone who lived through Spider Man

(47:52):
making a deal with the devil over his own soul,
this is all very manageable. But I think, yeah, that's
what I think. It's a bit of wouldn't this be
a cool easter egg. I'm not going to worry about
it too much, but I like giving how much the
credit that it is this great long con that he's

(48:13):
running as part of the plan. But I think it's
actually a weakness in the format.

Speaker 7 (48:20):
Ah, Jessica, do we think he's a drunk because of that?

Speaker 4 (48:23):
I thought he was drunk because of all is pain
and he's just yeah, I.

Speaker 7 (48:27):
Mean, or do you think that's part of it?

Speaker 5 (48:28):
I think I think it's a little bit of calum
a little column beat like I would say that I
think he wants to be part of the solution, but
he is also horribly damaged and unable to control. He's
self medicating, you know, but I think we see that
in the books sometimes, you know, we see him sober up,
he's helpful.

Speaker 6 (48:48):
Falls off the wag, so helpful falls off the wag,
you know.

Speaker 5 (48:52):
Like so I think I think he's just incredibly damaged
but is still trying to do things.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
And I think he wants people to think that he's
actually dumber that he is, Like he even even in
some of his binges throughout the series, he's never completely useless.
So yeah, I think Bryant nailed it that it's like
trying to, yeah, have your cake and eat it too,
I guess, have your bottle and bring it.

Speaker 7 (49:18):
To and they do kind of.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
I guess that is what they're establishing in the book.
He's the rascal, he's he's on out.

Speaker 7 (49:25):
So yeah, I mean he's playing that character all the
way through his whole life. Okay, I agree.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
It's gonna be fun to see in the film adaptation, right,
to be like, oh, how are we gonna Are we
gonna earn this?

Speaker 8 (49:37):
Right?

Speaker 5 (49:37):
No, definitely, And it will also be really interesting to
look at the re I guess the reread value of
going back to the original trilogy and reading it with
these new eyes for various characters and their connections very
interesting stuff. Are there any other characters that I mean,
I assume there are, but is there any other characters
that anyone wants to specifically talk about?

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I'm gonna shout the doves. Any dove is very cool
to me. It's I think I find this as somebody
who immigrated to the United States, I can't always see
what groups of people and what like American subcultures the
districts are supposed to be representing, like some of them

(50:21):
are more clear to me than others. And just like
the States, there's a lot in the middle where I'm like,
I don't know what happens here. I know the little
house on the prairies in the middle, and that's pretty
much it. And I think the doves are a really
clear anthropological example of like this is Appalachian culture from
a certain time that's sort of then been percolated and
evolved to reflect this world. So anytime we can sort

(50:43):
of drill down on I guess the wild spirit that
comes from them, Like I just thought they were cool
that they were a nice group of people. I would
like to see more of.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
The Covey have become such an interesting people. Yeah, and
I thought it was such I don't know, it seemed
out of left field when it was in Songbirds and Snakes,
and it's become such a you know, integral part of
the world. Any any other characters that anyone wants or
go ahead, Jessica, Well, I guess.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Well, speaking of the Covey and like Leonor and Lucy,
I want to kind of go back to Lucy for
a minute.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
So the two uncles or the dads or the Tam.

Speaker 6 (51:27):
And Tam and Clem is it or is it?

Speaker 8 (51:29):
Clerk?

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Yeah, clerk? Are they they're the same they were Lucy.
They were in the group that was raising Lucy too, right,
So they're older.

Speaker 5 (51:38):
And wait, yeah, My understanding is that there they were
all rounded up, some of the adults that fought back
were killed, and then the older kids raised essentially the
younger kids.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
And that was the start of the Covey in district.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Because they say when Leonor's died, like, oh, it's happening again,
which I assume is a reference to Lucy.

Speaker 7 (52:00):
And then do we think Lucy. This is always my thing.
Now that we've read this book, do we think.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
Lucy died or do we think she had a child
then died later?

Speaker 6 (52:12):
Because we see her grave, we see her grave, I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
That's like I'm assuming there's another book because I don't
know the answer to that question.

Speaker 7 (52:22):
Died, Well, she definitely.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Died, but she died quickly and painfully.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Well, I just want to know if Snow met his
match and he's like, he's so, you know that he
was not the one who killed her. That's what I'm curious,
Like did he was he able to kill her?

Speaker 7 (52:39):
Or did she have a little bit of a life
and then dies some other way? Like did she have
a child like I'm just.

Speaker 5 (52:45):
I don't know, or did she did she live free
for a bit like did she escape that moment that
we have in the book or did she die? It's
not clear from Snow's point of view, he thinks he
might have killed her, but he doesn't really confirm it. Yeah,
I almost feel and you know, I'm open to hearing
anyone else's thus but I almost feel like this is

(53:06):
the mystery of that is kind of cool to leave,
you know, because we don't need to know. It's interesting
to know that she did die. You know that there's
proof of her death, but you can almost imagine either
way as a reader. You could imagine like that snow
killed her and her people buried her, or you could
imagine she lived some life of brief freedom before dying.

Speaker 7 (53:29):
Yeah, but I guess you did mean his match because
they met canvas.

Speaker 8 (53:32):
But like I just.

Speaker 6 (53:35):
Back at him. Yeah, through it.

Speaker 7 (53:38):
It came full circle.

Speaker 9 (53:39):
But Yeah, while I was reading, I was like drawing
like a map and a chart, and I was like, Okay,
Lucy is the ten Hunger Games. This is forty years later,
and so she's the great grandmother, like trying to map
it all out. So I think in my universe she
is directly related to Leonora, and she.

Speaker 8 (54:01):
Does have a child. I have no basis of fact
for this assumption.

Speaker 9 (54:06):
Whatsoever, But just because I was like drawing out the timeline,
I was like.

Speaker 8 (54:11):
I decided that they're related.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
I don't know who knows, well, I don't know if
this is in the in the book. I'm assuming it is,
but I saw someone online mention that Clerk is the
fiddler at Hayley or at Finnick and Nana Annie's wedding,
so he's still with the group. He's the only one
I think of the Kobe that makes it to District

(54:36):
twelve or No.

Speaker 6 (54:38):
Thirteen.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
So read, Yeah, lots of things to you know, piece together,
fun stuff. Let me ask one other question before we
take a quick break. I guess I would just I
would just put it this way. You know, with every story,

(55:03):
we talk about the inherent themes and values present within
the story. I think this one is filled filled with
lots of subjects that we could discuss, lots of thematic subjects,
But are there any particularly that stand out to you
when we approach that subject? Is there one, I guess,

(55:23):
thematic subject or theme of the book that you think
shines brighter than the rest, Ashley, I'll throw it back
to you first.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I think there's a real through line with Hamich, which
is something that really works about the prequelization of this
particular publication, is that sometimes all you can do is
all you can do, and that is good enough. We
see him try to take monumental action all the way
through to the end of mocking Jay, and very rarely

(55:53):
is he able to initiate what he wants or accomplish
it in a way he wants more than almost any
other character. He's sort of the Miles O'Brien like, Hey,
Mitch will be punished for the audacity of trying, but
because the audacity of hope. I think that's the actual
book title. But because he has made all of these
incremental steps, it does allow for professors though Jesus Christ

(56:19):
President Snow.

Speaker 6 (56:20):
To event might be.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
I don't want to give anyone named choreo.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
Number one peacekeeper right, number one Peacekeeper.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah, yeah, snow University, You're gonna love it. But but
I do think and it's it's also because this is
not a cat and as story, this is not the
Chosen One narrative, so there has to be a level
of failure in it. But he fails more trying to
do what's right, I think than any other Hunger Games
character we've seen so far. But it's all it's not

(56:53):
in vain, and I think that's really sad and lovely,
which is where I think Susanne Collins work in this
universe sits it's best.

Speaker 6 (57:01):
That's a great point.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
I mean, he really he really grinds like that. He
life grinds him into a fine pulp and he just
keeps He keeps going.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Has his mushro of coffee in the morning.

Speaker 6 (57:15):
Becha, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 5 (57:17):
Is there a theme that stands out to you more
more clearly than the others.

Speaker 6 (57:23):
I just keep going.

Speaker 9 (57:24):
I don't know if this is a theme, but I
just keep going back to like the one line at
the beginning where hamuch like gets a bottle of alcohol
alcohol for his birthday and he's like, I don't drink,
and I was like, what, yeah you do.

Speaker 6 (57:39):
I don't know.

Speaker 9 (57:39):
I just for I feel like that's important for some reason,
but I don't know why. It's Yeah, it's like that, yeah,
the grinding you down, and like this whole book, they
have these grand aspirations and.

Speaker 8 (57:49):
Hamage is like convinced. He's like, yeah, I'm just gonna
like go down to the subay level.

Speaker 9 (57:53):
I'm gonna blow up this water tank. I'm going to
blow up the arena, and then we're going to take
over the capital. Yeah, easy, no problem with a potato.
And you're like in your head, You're like, no, dude,
this is happening in.

Speaker 8 (58:06):
Twenty five years.

Speaker 9 (58:07):
You've got to be like oppressed for twenty five more
years again, I don't know if that answers your question,
but that's what I was thinking about the whole time
of like the yeah, like this, just watching this character
like unravel and a little bit of like his ego
and why he becomes a person he becomes in the
original trilogy.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
You know, it's interesting back because I feel like that
it does open up a lot of things when you
say that, because I feel like, what is really interesting
that I'm realizing as you say that is that Hamich
has lived with.

Speaker 6 (58:48):
A promise to his dying lover for years, you know.

Speaker 5 (58:53):
And the promise, the promise is he talks about at
the end of the book. It's it's promise is not
something that he necessarily wants to He's not looking for
this mission, you know. He believes, Yeah, I mean he
believes in the cause.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
I think he does.

Speaker 5 (59:08):
He hates the capital, but he's not looking to devote
his life to to bringing the capital down. And it's
only because he promises this to her that I think
that we don't end up with him just like you know,
taking his own life or just you know, dying within
the bottle. He feels an obligation and they what is

(59:29):
realistic about this, even though it is a retcon, is
the idea that he lives with that alone, that he
doesn't share that with anyone. He doesn't share that with
the kids that he's mentoring, and and part of that
I wonder if it's fear, because I think there I'm
thinking right now of scenes. I remember where he's discussing

(59:50):
with Catnus and Peta separately, like how we're going to
protect the other one? What kind of choices you have
to make? You know, if you feel this way or
if you feel that way now through the perspective or
the spectrum of like, well, he made choices and they
resulted in everyone he loved dying.

Speaker 6 (01:00:08):
And what is he what kind of guilt? What kind
of what?

Speaker 5 (01:00:10):
What is he thinking about when he offers advice to
someone who is in even a you know, a situation
that smells a little bit similar. It's really interesting stuff
to go back and sort of decipher and sort of,
you know, break down the character like that.

Speaker 9 (01:00:29):
Lots of little nuggets and little trails that she's leaving
for us.

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
But yeah, I think think trauma and pain are definitely
clearly big in the thematic department. Yeah, Unfortunately, Jessica, what
what are your thoughts thematically, what stands out to you.

Speaker 7 (01:00:46):
Well off of trauma and pain.

Speaker 4 (01:00:49):
I mean, grace is clearly the main, like one of
the main themes, because I mean we've got the we've
got Edgar Allen Poe going through this whole thing, which
all the poems are about a man overcome with grief,
paralyzed by it, and which.

Speaker 7 (01:01:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
I still am deciding if I like the poem through
the the I do like song through the songs from
the book and everything and the original stuff, and I'm
still deciding about the Edgar Allen post stuff, but I
do think it's obviously very relevant to what's going.

Speaker 7 (01:01:22):
On in the book. But like I think, not only
personal grief that Hammage is going through, but grief is
like it doesn't have a linear you don't experience it
in a linear fashion.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
It comes and goes, it leaves you, and it paralyzes
you at times. And I think that Snow uses grief
as a weapon, and he does it through the whole
Hunger Games, by the pain and the trauma that he
that he inflicts on people, and he knows that the
worst one is the grief that you're gonna feel, you

(01:01:56):
know how, I think there's like that how that can
really amateur herson because he when he really wants to
hurt someone, that.

Speaker 7 (01:02:03):
Is how he goes at him.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
And I have to believe it's because of it's the
only thing to ever hurt him.

Speaker 7 (01:02:10):
But I'm still I'm not convinced he ever loved anyone.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
But I'm gonna let him have the other book whatever.
But yeah, so grief is the big one for me,
and it ties all into the pain and trauma, but
it I do think it also ties into some of
the political things that she's trying to say too, because
it's weaponized quite often, not just for one person, but

(01:02:33):
for an entire district or the entire all the districts,
and that's how he's using it to control a lot
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
So I want to add one interesting thing, because I
understand the point you make about the songs and the
like original poetry versus po Yeah, what I thought was
interesting about Poe is that he's also he enlisted in
the army and then rage quit after his because he
was so bad at it. And I think Susanne Collins

(01:03:04):
is smart enough that that layer is also important to
like the Hamich's evolution that we see its effectiveness. You know,
the John may vary, but I just think that's like
a fun fact.

Speaker 6 (01:03:15):
No, that is great. That is great.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Yeah, Grief, I mean, I think is such an important
thing especially and maybe we can talk about this when
you come back from the break. But the idea once
again of generational stories and generational trauma. I mean, when
we look at District twelve, especially looking at in these

(01:03:38):
three time periods where you songbirds and snakes than the quarter,
well the then Catnus's.

Speaker 6 (01:03:45):
Trilogy, the entire district is crushed.

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
You know, and we see, you know, we see the
specifics of how you know, some people have a little
bit worse than others, but no one has it well,
you know, no one is living well in this Everyone
is crushed under some sort of trauma. And we see
that revealed in this in this book with the humanization

(01:04:12):
of Meslely, you know, and hey, Mitch's realization, I guess
that the who the real enemy is.

Speaker 6 (01:04:20):
You know. Well, let's take a quick break. I do
want to come back and dive.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Into more a few more themes, but we've been having
some great discussion.

Speaker 6 (01:04:29):
We'll be back in just a minute.

Speaker 11 (01:04:35):
Hi, this is Barbara Dylan, voice of Catness Everdeen in
the award winning audio drama The Catenus Chronicles. The Catenus
Chronicles is a fan made production which adapted Suzanne collins
best selling Hunk Games books into over seventy original and
stunning audio episodes. Be sure to visit the Catenus Chronicles
dot com. Maybe the odds be ever in your favor.

Speaker 6 (01:05:02):
Welcome back listeners.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
All right, so we're diving back into Sunrise on the Reaping,
the latest prequel in the Hunger Games book series, and
we were just talking about themes. We we touched on
a number of great topics, but I do want to
dive a little bit deeper. One of the really interesting
things that is in the acknowledgments page of this uh

(01:05:27):
this book is that Suzanne Collins talks about how the
inspiration for some of this book came from conversations with
her father about Scottish philosopher David Hume. Specifically, we talk
about the idea of implicit submission, and we see this

(01:05:49):
very specifically with conversations between hamig And and Plutarch, and
then Hamish considering them themselves. There's a a bit of
dialogue where they Plutarch essentially makes Hamage consider why why.

Speaker 6 (01:06:08):
The districts allow the capital to do this to them?

Speaker 5 (01:06:10):
If they if the districts have more people, the districts
technically have more power or the power to change it.
Why do they submit? Why do they put up with this?
And that comes up again and again in the in
the book, I would love to just take some time
to talk about this idea of implicit submission, and especially

(01:06:32):
I mean.

Speaker 6 (01:06:34):
In the world that we're living in right now.

Speaker 5 (01:06:36):
Where we see wealth disparity at historic places, where we
see yeah, you know, we talked a little bit about.

Speaker 6 (01:06:44):
It, so inhuman in humane behavior being.

Speaker 5 (01:06:49):
Projected upon various minorities, various communities, and now it to
some degree even the citizenship at large. You could argue,
these days, what what what does this book have to
say about that? What does it have to say about
why we have implicit submission within our own world and

(01:07:09):
the world of the Hunger Games? Jessica, why don't you
start us off on this one?

Speaker 7 (01:07:15):
Yay?

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
It's so, you know, I thought about this a lot,
because you know, Hamich deals with it quite a few times,
and I know Maisley gets very angry with him when
he like, I think the most physical version of it
in this story is when he doesn't.

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
Think about that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:42):
When you're ready, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
So I think one of the most like specific and
physical part physical versions of this implicit submission is when
Hamig doesn't help Maislely freezes. He doesn't in the arena,
and she gets really angry with him, and he has
to kind of think about why he didn't didn't do that,

(01:08:05):
he didn't stand up. And I mean, I think there's
a little bit of just instinctual part of humanity. Or
you want to live, you don't want to die, You
your fear takes over.

Speaker 7 (01:08:16):
And I think in a system that we've all like
if we apply like a system like phenomena in our system.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
Like here in the US right now, where you have
been raised to believe that these systems are in place
and are very hard to change, especially if you even
tried to change them. You've you've definitely hit walls, you know,
if you've gone to you know, you've protested, you've called,
you've done things. You've had successes and you've had failures.

(01:08:45):
But now we're seeing people get hurt and we're all
seeing it. And I I just think there's a lot
of that. That fear is hard to overcome, you know,
to realize, to break out of that, the fear that
no one else will join you, that no one else
will have your back, that you'll be standing.

Speaker 7 (01:09:05):
Alone and be destroyed for it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
I see, we see that in our leaders right now, Like,
you know, they're asking us to hit the streets and
go to Tesla, you know, and the people are going
to have to solve this. I hear that a lot,
and I'm like, well, why are the people going.

Speaker 7 (01:09:20):
To have to solve this?

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
We have leaders, we have law firms that are we
have law firms bending the We've got leaders bending the knee,
we've got universities bending the knee. They're giant institutions, and
you're watching them not stand up. And then they're looking
to the people like you should go to the street,
get hit, get taken away to El.

Speaker 7 (01:09:42):
Salvador, get you know.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
And it's it's very complicated because it's so and I
don't even I don't even know I've gone off on
a you know, just what we're experiencing.

Speaker 7 (01:09:54):
But I think fear is at the very heart of it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
And I think I think what hunger games does really well,
is one that shows the people involved that they're all together,
that there is a chance.

Speaker 7 (01:10:08):
I think that is what Roue did. I think that's
what Catnus did.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
When they start, you start to visually see that everyone
is agreeing with your side. Then you start to feel
safer and you feel like you can stand up.

Speaker 7 (01:10:21):
And I do think.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Part of what makes humans humans is that is that
we're heard analyms.

Speaker 7 (01:10:27):
They hate to say it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
We like to be in the tribe, we like to
you know. And I do think that plays a lot
into implicit like that submission. We submit until we think
we can that we have enough people. It's hard not
to submit when you're all by yourself like that. I
think that that's why there are people They study people well.

Speaker 7 (01:10:49):
Actually I was reading.

Speaker 4 (01:10:49):
I'm reading an Overstore Overstory, which is a book by
and there's a guy in there who's studying people who
are idealists, people who will take that stand when no
one else will take that star because he thinks there's
something wired differently. And I think I'm prone to agree
with that. You know, they're wired differently there. And I
think a lot of people are wired to wait.

Speaker 6 (01:11:11):
No, no.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
I think I think all that is a lot of
very interesting things about about this topic, because I mean,
I think I guess what it illustrates to me too,
is is it brings me back to a discussion that
I had a lot with the original Hunger Games book where.

Speaker 6 (01:11:31):
People would be like, Yeah, that's cool book. People would
never do that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:35):
No one would, No one would, you know, stand by
with their kid go into the arena. And I just
would sit there and be like, I feel like, am
I crazy? Because I know human history, and I know
we did put people into readas, and people did stand
by and and and and I think that they're The
idea of implicit submission is present within the concept of

(01:11:58):
the Hunger Games. If if you have made a submissive
society that you know, feels that it has to give
up its young, you know, periodically as tribute to a
larger nation, that they that society is already submitted in
many ways. I mean, and we see it differently with

(01:12:20):
the career districts, where they're trying to integrate to some
degree with the capital ideals. They assume those values on
their own, at least District twelve. We see that it's
different in the sense that most people reject the capital
even though they're underneath the thumb. But it is very
interesting because I guess just talking about this brings up

(01:12:42):
the question of, like, well, what what does it say
about our society that we can't imagine that this could
be a possibility that people would do this or feel
compelled to do this in the in the right circumstances.

Speaker 6 (01:12:58):
Interesting what we do?

Speaker 7 (01:13:02):
No, we do do this.

Speaker 4 (01:13:04):
I mean, I don't want to make anyone really angry,
but we send our children off to war and we
let them enroll, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:13:13):
Now we're not getting drafted, you know. And we go
to and.

Speaker 4 (01:13:16):
There's wars that you don't agree with necessarily, and it's
all about money most of the time.

Speaker 7 (01:13:21):
It's not like World War.

Speaker 4 (01:13:22):
It's not like we're not going to go save a
group of people. We're not trying to like bring liberation anywhere.
Most of our most current wars haven't been about that.
And so we do do it. We just we've been
told that it's like patriotic, which is what they say
about the games. They're patriotic, they're keeping the peace, and

(01:13:43):
that's not too far off from sending your children to war.

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
You're like, you're blowing my mind a little bit, because
that is the draft. I mean, that's the way people
sit here and say this couldn't happen, and it's like, well,
why don't we remember the sixties when we people were
pulling names and they were sending these kids, and what
was the point was it?

Speaker 6 (01:14:04):
Anymore? Did have a bigger point than the Hunger Games?

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
We did, and I mean we, as sort of the
nation and governing body did recently burn a book called
The History of the Third Reich, which contains the very
famous quote transitated English, those who don't know history are
doomed to repeat it, not to run too far down
the rabbit hole in the American public education system. But
perhaps I think this illustrates why these books are important,

(01:14:29):
not only because they're well written, they're cool stories. They'll
engage your love of reading and storytelling, but they can
also teach you a lot, and they can probably push
a lot of people's point of views to ask these
questions in the first place, because Brian, I think you
know that when you're like a lot of people are like, oh, yeah,
it's cool, but it's fiction, and you're like barely in

(01:14:51):
the way that like Octavia Butler is ostensibly filed under fiction,
even Los Angeles in particular. You're like, I think she's
a witch, and I mean that's a huge compliment.

Speaker 6 (01:15:04):
Becka. What are your thoughts on.

Speaker 5 (01:15:07):
What this book has to say about, like the submission
in our society?

Speaker 9 (01:15:12):
I was thinking a lot about a couple things. Again,
sorry if this doesn't answer your question, but the only
POV that we've seen is from District twelve in any
of the five books, So I am you know, this
has got me thinking, like what is it like in
District one where you know, as you guys said, like

(01:15:32):
they are trying to play nice and sort of cater
to the capitol and you know, training their children to
be the best. But I also think about like the geography,
and I feel like when I read The Hunger Games,
there were a lot of like maps and like, oh,
this is where District twelve is and this is where

(01:15:52):
you know, District one is. And it was like, oh,
this kind of makes sense because now we have a
lot of like state against state, and the Hunger Games
has really set up you know, district against district.

Speaker 8 (01:16:03):
Like yeah, there's.

Speaker 9 (01:16:04):
More of them, but like even when they're setting up
like the newcomers and the careers, like they're not all aligned,
Like it's not like they're all gonna play nice and
play together. And I just feel like that is a
real parallel to like the states that I don't know

(01:16:26):
that maybe I'm not articulating that. Well, believe no, no,
I think you have been running through my mind.

Speaker 5 (01:16:32):
Well, it's it's the key to what we're asking, the key.
I guess if we go to young Plutarch in this
book when he asks why don't you do what you know?
Why don't you do this? Why don't you stand up
against this? The system's designed to divide everyone. I mean,
we see in the original trilogy, what how do they succeed?

(01:16:53):
They succeed when when Catnus and allies from the Capitol
and al It's from the other district start saying, we're
not enemies with each other, you know, the enemy, it's
a it's us versus them, it's the it's snow and
even that.

Speaker 8 (01:17:09):
Those secret district that, and we'll like, actually, we're.

Speaker 6 (01:17:13):
Doing this well.

Speaker 5 (01:17:15):
And then you also have I mean that that the
ideas pushed further when you go like, well we also
take out coin too, because.

Speaker 6 (01:17:22):
You know we it's not we we have arrows for everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:17:25):
You know. But but I think the point being is
that that Catnus is one of those inciting Uh, she's
an inciting character, you know. She she takes action that
that others, for whatever reason, don't feel that they can
or or resist doing. And I think what is interesting

(01:17:46):
to me and I know we have it in our
discussion points to talk to talk about.

Speaker 6 (01:17:52):
This idea.

Speaker 5 (01:17:52):
This NPR article where they were talking about how the
book speaks to.

Speaker 6 (01:17:58):
How how well we know our history.

Speaker 5 (01:18:00):
The fact that the district individuals don't know their history,
and that keeps them as a disadvantage. They don't know
the history of these rebellions, the history of the successes,
the attempts, and that keeps them from building faster on
top of each other.

Speaker 8 (01:18:18):
They also can't really travel between districts.

Speaker 6 (01:18:20):
Right right, They don't have any connection with others.

Speaker 5 (01:18:23):
So but I guess what I would I and beca
maybe I can throw this back to you to get
your response. One thing that is spurred by those thoughts
and what you're saying is one thing that seems connected
to implicit submission, is this idea that we lose, We
lose like first hand knowledge of things that have happened.

(01:18:45):
When I think about the protests and the draft and
things like that, there's people in these generations, in my
generation and beyond who can't imagine that happening. We know
it happened, it's in the books, it's in history, but
they can't image imagine, you know, the feeling of like
what if my name was being picked? What if the

(01:19:05):
government was saying go to Vietnam or go to Canada
or go to jail. You know, like that's it. And
now the reality is starting to set in. But I
still feel like our citizens are are kind of unaware.
And it almost feels like when I'm looking at history,
and I think these books reflect this, that there's a
period of time where we retain, you know, the values

(01:19:29):
or the knowledge from lessons, where we get freedoms, where
we get we make advancement, and then it's almost like
the way wealth. You know, someone acquires wealth and then
their kids come in and they don't appreciate the wealth
as much, and so they don't have the same ambition
or motivation or don't understand the concepts the same. It
seems like this is present within the human species in

(01:19:50):
regards to our fight for freedom and equality, Like we
have to fight these fights over and over because generationally,
generationally we lose the knowledge.

Speaker 6 (01:20:02):
Of it or the importance of it. Is a wild
almost want I suggest you.

Speaker 9 (01:20:05):
Also have to like want to do your homework, and
I think a lot of people are honestly just a
little bit lazy. Like you have to look at the
information that it's presented to you and actually know how
to read that and understand that, and like are you.

Speaker 8 (01:20:22):
Being told the whole truth or not?

Speaker 9 (01:20:24):
Just to get into sort of like the propaganda piece
of it and like the social media piece of it.

Speaker 8 (01:20:29):
I mean, even like yesterday was April Fool's Day.

Speaker 9 (01:20:31):
I was like, I can't even go on the internet
because April fools Day drives me mad and I hate
it so much and all the stupid pranks that people pull.
But like, I was really thinking about that a lot
because it was like the and the you know, the
way that you're presented on social media versus how you
you know, how you really are. I was also thinking

(01:20:51):
about like every state teaches you different things, Like when
I grew up in Virginia and like the history that
I learned, it's probably totally different from what you learned Bryant,
and it's just like they don't make it easy, Like
you really have to be aware.

Speaker 8 (01:21:11):
That this is something that is happening.

Speaker 9 (01:21:13):
And I think that it's just so well captured, and
they're so you know, District alve in particular, are so isolated,
and like you know, they sometimes they can't even watch
the Hunger Games because people didn't have TVs, you know,
like to bring it back to that, like they they
don't even have the access to the information to let
alone be able to like go and do their research well.

Speaker 5 (01:21:36):
And and Ashley and Jessica, I'd love to bring this
back to get you back into the conversation on this
topic as well. But just to add on what you're saying, Becka,
is people are I think there's there's two topics there
that really interesting. There's this the idea that psychologically, the
way our minds work, we can be overwhelmed and programmed

(01:22:00):
by this information and there's nothing we can do about it.
And I mean, we can be aware of it, but
that still doesn't necessarily prevent it from happening to us
under the right circumstances.

Speaker 6 (01:22:10):
And then there's also you know, I.

Speaker 5 (01:22:14):
Would that I would kind of qualify that as the
laziness or the like the idea of like, we we
can't deal with the information, so we just kind of,
you know, disassociate from it. But there's also this idea of,
like when we look at the parallels of our world
and District twelve, if you keep people at survival level,
they don't have the ability to think about those things.

(01:22:35):
You know, We've see studies that show that mental health
or mental capabilities drop when you're homeless because of what
that trauma does to you. And these people live in
trauma all the time and they are only worried about
making sure people don't starve today, So how can they
make a rebellion? Actually, Jessica, what are your thoughts on

(01:22:55):
the idea of this this loss of I guess really
important knowledge as we move through like generational I guess
passing of the torch for you know, the fight for
rights or freedom.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
That's actually something that I think about a lot in
my day to day life, because like, I'm an immigrant
who's the child of colonizers. So even though you can
choose to move to a different part of the world
or a different city or whatever, like, that's still a
trauma and it's like a loss of connection. And so
to go back to the idea of like doing your
own research, that's something that like there are there's traditional

(01:23:32):
knowledge and folk tales and medicines, that like doesn't make
it to me because of all these other incumbent things
in the past. And I and I know that is
a leap from what we see in the Hunger Games.
But the Coveyer I think are a really clear microcosmic
example of that because we met we hadn't I don't
think we'd heard of them for the Hunger Games, and

(01:23:54):
then you meet them in Songbirds and Snakes and they
do Brian, I agree. I think they're a little clunkily placed.
I think that book sometimes feels like it's two books,
even though I like everything that's contained in it. And
then we get this really interesting evolution of them in
this book, and then the seats planet that like, oh yeah,

(01:24:17):
he did live all the way to the end, and
he did get to see the world in its good time.
And I think that can feel very removed from who
we are as people, and that that's a trauma that
we carry because it is harder to imagine walking down
to the coliseum with your baseball bat and hoping that
you come out of it. But there's a quote that

(01:24:38):
I heard on Reddit which means it almost certainly didn't
come from there. That's what do we call the German
people who were not Nazis but lived through Nazi Germany?
We call them Nazis. And I think that is very
much at the heart of the hero characters in particular
that we have in this franchise, that even if it
takes something horrible, and I mean it's always something horrible,

(01:24:58):
but particularly like what happened to Hay much of this
book to radicalize you that it's worth it's worth doing,
even when it's hard.

Speaker 6 (01:25:08):
It's almost to you, what choice do you have?

Speaker 5 (01:25:10):
It's it's it's with these characters Cat and has Peta Hamich.
We see them struggle with this. It's like they go,
who am I? Who am I if I kill people?
Who am I if I don't? Who am I if
I don't respond the way that my heart is telling
me to respond in these situations, even if that means suffering,

(01:25:30):
even if that means hopelessness.

Speaker 6 (01:25:32):
And what it was really.

Speaker 5 (01:25:33):
Interesting about what you're saying too, Ashley, is I hadn't
really put it together, but it's it's also completely in
the DNA of the book because that's literally like the
title is about a reference to you know, uh, when
Ordov talking about Haymich, shouldn't assume that the son's going
to come up every day, and that's part of what

(01:25:53):
we're fighting. I think he has a line at some
point about like, part of the problem is we don't
believe we can do these things. We don't believe anything
can change, so we don't attempt to change it. And
she's really trying to teach him to not make that assumption,
to assume that things can change it that someone can
you know that it's not inevitable that you're not going

(01:26:15):
to have a reaping forever. And I think that ties
into what we're saying where it's very easy if you
pass a couple generations to believe, well, this is the
way the world is and it's never going to change,
nothing can ever happen. But it's really just people making
decisions and you know, imposing things on others. Jessica, what
are your thoughts on this idea of generational knowledge or

(01:26:38):
I guess struggle.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
Well, I think we're losing a lot of it I mean,
if you you know, my mom would.

Speaker 7 (01:26:48):
Teach this class and she would I'm going to kill this,
so I'm not going to get into it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:52):
But like she would talk about the Holocaust with her students,
so she had this article she would share with them,
and it was like, how many kids that are a
certain age right now, like teens to like twenty five,
that don't have like a real educational or personal understanding
of the Holocaust, just understanding how big it was. How

(01:27:14):
many people there were like it hasn't been taught to
them in a way that they understand it and they
get to college and.

Speaker 7 (01:27:20):
So there's god, the number is very bad.

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
I can't remember who don't even like really think it's
that big of a deal because they don't really understand
it right.

Speaker 7 (01:27:32):
And then you can apply that to something like Vietnam.

Speaker 4 (01:27:34):
You know, the draft that we were talking about, and
you know, I've been have a father who was drafted
and he didn't go to Vietnam, but I have an uncle,
and you know, your certain age, you have all these
family memories who were drafted at some point they alsoved,
you know, whether they went or just did other things.
And that's not true anymore because people don't have that.

Speaker 7 (01:27:53):
Young people don't have that experience.

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
And now we're living in this time of social media
where we're watching the truth disintegrate, our stories disintegrate before
our eyes.

Speaker 7 (01:28:03):
Not to be super bleak.

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
But like some of my friends who have family members
and I'm me and I have family members too that
have a diehard Trump supporter, still right, they are not
experiencing the news the way we're experiencing news.

Speaker 7 (01:28:19):
They're not experiencing our shared reality the way that we're
experiencing it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
And people I know have success with Trump supporters is
right now. Specifically is when they know something like say Ukraine, right,
when somebody knows what Trump is saying about Ukraine is
not true, they know that to be true because they
have people that have lived in Ukraine and they understand it,
and they have a shared story and they have a

(01:28:47):
personal connection to that history or that then they start
to realize what they're being told is not true. And
I have a friend who's you know, parents have disengaged
from all of the band media that they've been listening
to because they through that truth, they were able to
realize how much they.

Speaker 7 (01:29:03):
Were being lied to.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
Right, And so it is possible for people to realize
that they're getting the wrong stories. But there has to
be a connection that they and it's important and that's
why the Covey are so important, I think, and I'm
glad she added them because they're telling their stories constantly
through song, through performance, through art, and that's why they

(01:29:29):
have this wildness.

Speaker 7 (01:29:30):
I'm not even quite sure I think that.

Speaker 4 (01:29:32):
I'm so surprised they're allowed to continue half the time
because they're doing something through oral tradition that everybody else
has lost in the story, which you can see how
it affects them as a group. They're stronger, they're stronger,
they have they all think for themselves, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:29:51):
And so I don't know, I think we have a
lot of fighting to do.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
But I do think, I do think there is something
to this keeping in contact with people that you know
that you really disagree with, because eventually, some of them
you're going to pull them back and they're gonna have
to reckon with whatever they supported, right. But like, I
think there's something very important to that storytelling component, and

(01:30:17):
that true like re telling these stories and that's when
I say stories, I'm talking about history at this point,
I'm not and I'm talking about like three.

Speaker 7 (01:30:24):
Months ago history.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
You know, I'm watching January sixth, you know, become something
else entirely. You're just watching it transform and you're like, whoa,
whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa like?

Speaker 7 (01:30:33):
And how do we? How do we not?

Speaker 4 (01:30:37):
Because that's the most that's the most tragic part of
the whole book where I almost just fell to my
knees is when Hamish is watching his Hunger Games and
the proper it's not anything that happened, and it's making
him look like a complete buffoon and not important and
if nothing he did mattered, In fact, everything that he

(01:30:57):
did that he thought mattered is just going to blow
up in his face and everyone's it didn't make a difference.

Speaker 7 (01:31:02):
And that's like, I don't know, I've done it. I've
gone into circle of the gad.

Speaker 5 (01:31:07):
But no, No, it's a good point because it ties
into everything that we're dealing with in with the I
mean the first books when we got into like Mocking
J specifically, I mean it was through all of it,
but Mocking J, they literally get into a propaganda war,
you know, where it's like whose propaganda is going to
work and doesn't matter if it's real, you know, or

(01:31:31):
doesn't matter what it inspires.

Speaker 6 (01:31:32):
And we have a lot of that going on here.
And and.

Speaker 5 (01:31:39):
That scene that you mentioned is horrifict from Hamich's point
of view, But I hadn't put together what you're saying
is that's an element that is a tool of the
Capital to continue to divide people. You know, they're taking
something that Hami Hamage specifically does things within the arena knowing, hey,
maybe not everyone will see it, but it's it's it's

(01:32:00):
done in resistance of the capital. And what do they
do They strip it out. And that means that certain people,
you know, most likely most importantly people in the districts
are seeing him as just someone who's buying into the system.
You know, his power and his voices, his agency has
sort of taken away, and it's just used to divide
us once again, you know, between the haves and have nots.

(01:32:22):
So it's a good point. It's a really good point.
One thing I wanted to pick up on and throw
back to the three of you is this idea of
the COVID and community. I guess what I we're exploring
community right now. If fan base press, that's our theme
of the year. We're doing a build Your Community initiative,

(01:32:42):
just focusing on on comic book creators and creators in general,
because it's a hard time and we just think that
that's something that's needed. So if you want to find
out more about that, go to fanbasepress dot com. But
with this story, I find it really interesting how important
community and wiwal community is within the story with the

(01:33:03):
cove and how they're as you said, Jessica, they're they're
essentially protecting their their local history or their you know,
their common history and building strength and unity through that.
And I feel like those are the things that I'm
seeing work really well for people were struggling these days,

(01:33:25):
you know, turning away from larger corporations or or organizations
and and and going more local, getting back to those connections,
stepping away from social media sometimes and and actually having
face to face meeting seems to be going well. But
I I guess I want to ask two things. Do
you think that there's something that this story, specifically Sunrise

(01:33:49):
on the Reaping, has to say about community? And uh,
is there anything we can take away from it? I
guess to help with the times we're going through Becca,
why don't you start us off on.

Speaker 6 (01:34:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 8 (01:34:03):
I first of all, I love that initiative.

Speaker 9 (01:34:05):
I'm very excited to hear that that's what you guys
are focusing on this year. I think that's great. I
think that community is super important. And I think, you know,
when you're reading or hearing cat Is specifically singing the
Hanging Tree, like you don't even realize where like you're

(01:34:29):
not getting the full story. And like how important that
the Covey Kobe like their story is and their community is,
and you know how they were the only ones who
were like freely roaming the districts until they got rounded
up and like sent to District twelve.

Speaker 6 (01:34:47):
And I think.

Speaker 9 (01:34:48):
That's part of you know, they're trying to divide your
community to be part of that submission.

Speaker 6 (01:34:55):
And so I think it's.

Speaker 9 (01:34:57):
Really important to have these communities and the way that
the community grows in the Hunger Games, where you know,
they pick up Blue Tart, they pick up Effie eventually
like and you know, trou these people into their community.
That's you know, that's the only way that we're going

(01:35:19):
to get through any.

Speaker 8 (01:35:19):
Of this in the book or in real life.

Speaker 5 (01:35:21):
In my opinion, I think I think you're exactly right.
And what is interesting that I think that you noted
that I was thinking about as well, is how the
book represents that by things that are passed through this.

Speaker 6 (01:35:35):
This growing District twelve.

Speaker 5 (01:35:37):
Community in history that these book series have outlined, like
something like the Hanging Tree being established in one book,
being sung in another, and then eventually being used to
push things forward to the collapse or how I mean
it could seem so silly, but how natural the passing
of the mocking jaypin. We find out that where it
was forged in this book, we find out how it

(01:35:59):
got to the sister, how eventually it goes to her
daughter and then has passed the Catnus and then becomes
this symbol. And there's just so this genuine history to it,
and I feel like, I don't know, that's such a
human thing. It's an important thing for us to have
in our lives. Ashley, what do you think the story

(01:36:20):
says about community and what can we take away from
it on that aspect.

Speaker 1 (01:36:25):
It's interesting because that face value Hunger Games is always
community minded. I mean, the Hunger Games is literally the
act of it is set up to physically destroy members
of your community. And members, you know, who could be allies.
I think that sometimes about being a woman, where I'm like, well,
if we just decided that all men were trash, we

(01:36:45):
could do whatever we wanted, But we can't get that together,
which is why I don't think The Hunger Games is
as much of a logically a leap as we keep
kind of touching back on. What I think this book
really illustrates about community is that you have to be
prepared to be inconvenience. And I think that that's something
that we as modern people living in the present tense,

(01:37:09):
in the contemporary world, we don't want to be inconvenience
because we live in this like instant oatmeal chat GPT
society where we get everything in the touch of our fingers.
Because these characters under the auspices of pan M. Unless
you're in like I don't know, the capital or maybe
the first three districts, you know, again the career districts,

(01:37:30):
you have no choice but to rely on that. And
I think that's why so many people in the rebellion.
Yes we have members of the capitol here, but like
it's mostly the people who are at the very bottom
because they're already used to taking these extreme measures and
then you leap that forward and you get the you know,
incredible bombing scene that keeps being referred to of like, yeah,
blow it up, good luck, it's going to take you

(01:37:52):
twenty five years. But ultimately that's where the strength comes from.
And I think that's something that we the readers are
learning more and more. And I think that's also the
that can be the strength of social media and some
of these tools that have also let us down this path,
like book, talk, book to podcasting, YouTube, like all these

(01:38:12):
all these media that have less gatekeepers less I won't
say no less gatekeepers are helping us. I think to
reclaim some of that as well. Anyway, I went, I
went a couple of places. Thank you for joining me
on the Surety Friends.

Speaker 6 (01:38:25):
We enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 (01:38:26):
Jessica, what are your thoughts on what is this? What
does this book have to say about community? What can
we take away from it? Well?

Speaker 7 (01:38:34):
I do I like what i Ashley said about the inconvenience.

Speaker 4 (01:38:39):
So much of community is you know, the community building
is inconvenient.

Speaker 7 (01:38:44):
It is inconvenient when someone you know needs help to
go help them. Not that you don't want to, it's
just that it's inconvenient, and we it you do have
to snap yourself out of it.

Speaker 4 (01:38:55):
And it is true that people who are already struggling
are better at dealing with inconvenience. And I was just
talking to someone the other day, it's like coorest people,
you know, and the people are struggling the most are
always the first people to show up to help somebody
and to thank God for something that they have, right, And.

Speaker 7 (01:39:12):
That is an interesting thing.

Speaker 4 (01:39:14):
And so that's making me kind of understand why District
twelve is so at the center of this.

Speaker 7 (01:39:19):
You know, I think what I mean, I just think
hunger is the same.

Speaker 4 (01:39:29):
Community is really hard work, you know, it's really hard
work to build something that is true and beautiful that
can overcome these kind of obstacles, and even when it's
torn apart.

Speaker 7 (01:39:45):
It continues.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
And I do think that's why, like all the symbols
of community and the symbols of what that go through
and the mocking I just really had while you were talking,
I was like, my brain was exploding about this pin
because I was just thinking about, you know, measally and
how she made everybody, like, how she formed that community
and brought everyone together because she cared about how they looked,

(01:40:09):
how they get to present their special you know what
was it called their my brain's it's your thing you.

Speaker 6 (01:40:15):
Get to bring into the it's.

Speaker 4 (01:40:18):
The thing you bring into the arena, your token. And
she it was so important to her to have it
be presented well and something to be proud of.

Speaker 7 (01:40:27):
And at first that seems kind of you know, like measily,
like you know, it seems.

Speaker 4 (01:40:33):
To avid, but it is so important because it represents
each of their communities and they're there to represent what
what is holding them together in this horrible situation. And
she gets that, and that's why it's so crazy. And
that something you were just saying, I didn't even think
about it, that pin being in her drawer, She's not

(01:40:54):
even doesn't even care about it, you know, and it
you know, she and then that to be the thing that.

Speaker 7 (01:41:01):
Draws them all together, and that's quite beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:41:04):
Like that just kind of came together for me while
you were talking, Brian, I was just thinking about the
pin and nasally and how she was doing all that,
and yeah, so to be that it's weird, these small
it was her taking the time to do that when
she should have been doing something else, like she should
have been getting stronger, she's about to die. Instead, she's

(01:41:25):
like fixing everyone's token for them.

Speaker 12 (01:41:28):
And so it's interesting.

Speaker 5 (01:41:32):
Because I also like this idea as as you were
mentioning of Ashley's about inconvenience and and when I hear
the three of you talk, I guess what it makes
me think is that maybe the messages that community is
inconvenient and difficult, but it's also worth it. It's this

(01:41:54):
human thing that we do and and we need we
benefit from it. You know, when we're separated, we suffer
when we're together. Yes, it might be inconvenient, Yes, there
are there are things you have to deal with people,
you know, and I'm a person doesn't always like to
deal with people, But I also see the payoffs of
friendships and gatherings and how it changes my spirit to

(01:42:18):
see people you know regularly on a you know, a
regular basis, to develop relationships with them. I think maybe
consumerism and capitalism has so focused us on other other
achievements that you can have in life that we have
pulled away from the idea of like there's something in

(01:42:40):
just knowing people and spending time with them that is
unquantifiable but incredibly valuable. And it almost reminds me of
like I think that that is connected to somehow connected
to our political structure because it's community is supposed to
be why you're involved in politics, because you're part of
the community and you have a say, and we've gotten

(01:43:02):
divided from that a little bit too, I think, maybe intentionally,
because people want that power and if we're not involved
in the community, then then we're not involved in making
decisions in the community. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
In Jessica's opening thesis about her relationship to the Hunger
Games and to this book, she concluded by saying, people
are herd animals, no offense, and I like that. We've
just come back to that same thesis for later, like, man,
you really nailed it. We were like, we have time
to filp.

Speaker 6 (01:43:31):
We're going to keep it.

Speaker 5 (01:43:35):
Great job, Jessica, Well we only have about fifteen minutes left.
But I do want to take some time to just
point people in a direction if if they're looking for
other stories or you know, it doesn't even have to
be stories. I mean, when we look at our recommendations,

(01:43:56):
it could be it could be philosophy, it could be
urt your poem. But if you have other stories, other
things that you think listeners might enjoy a favor enjoyed
Sunrise on the Reaping, or if they enjoyed this discussion.
I would love to hear what you would suggest, Ashley,
Why don't you start us off? What would you recommend?

Speaker 1 (01:44:17):
I'm gonna go rogue and recommend the complete works of
Ed GRELLM Poe. They're fantastic, and I genuinely think the
world is worse because we don't read enough poetry. And
that's a fun one. That's one that you know the
cultural references to. There's a Simpson's parody. So if nothing else,
watch the season two, the very first Treehouse of Horror,
where they do the entire Raven. That's my first recommendation.

(01:44:39):
You can leave the rest of the poet home, but
just watch bart Home do the Raven. If you want
something that's specifically hunger Games, I mentioned Octavia E. Butler,
start with Parable of the Sewer and then read everything
else she's ever written. You'll see a lot of similar themes,
and you'll be very, very disappointing that she's not as

(01:45:00):
lot of a writer as she observes to be. In
the current contemporary Annals of American Literature and then if
you want something that I think gives you the same
level of criticism, an examination of where we are right
now as people, but it's still genre and more uplifting.
Watch for All Mankind on Apple TV.

Speaker 6 (01:45:22):
Peops, what a great show.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
Yes, so good, Joel Kenni, It is amazing in it.
But it really is an interesting examination and re examination
of where we are right now through the lens of
an alternate history.

Speaker 5 (01:45:37):
And they're about to do sort of a Sunrise kind
of thing where they're doing the Russian version of events
now in the spinoff series.

Speaker 7 (01:45:46):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
Yeah, I'm so excited. And if you live in the
valley you'll recognize a lot of those roads as they're
driving out to JPL.

Speaker 5 (01:45:55):
Well, before I go to Becca and Jessica, I just realized,
because you made that recommendation, we never got to discuss
Poe or folk songs, and I just wanted to get
some quick thoughts on what your feelings were on the
you know, the idea of including Poe in this and
connecting it with Hamage.

Speaker 1 (01:46:16):
Oh, I'm always pro po. I was in uh Boston
the last week and we went to specifically see the
Poe statute that's there. I genuinely I thought. I think
I ultimately do agree with the criticism that we've had
only original poetry or in universe poetry up to this point.
So I does feel a touch out of step, but

(01:46:38):
I just really liked it because I like his work,
Like if you, if you we'd also if we'd also
had I don't know O to a gresh Earn or
something like that, like some keids, I would have been like, yes,
this is just for me.

Speaker 8 (01:46:51):
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
I think reading poetry opens your brain up in a
really interesting way. So if you've never, if you ever have,
I highly encourage it. I think the use of music
is very smart and high key. All the adaptations of
the songs are pretty good. So there's a couple of
nice Spotify playlists with great covers. Uh, if nothing else,
go listen to them while you're finishing up.

Speaker 5 (01:47:10):
You read excellent, excellent, and what an interesting perspective on
on how books are viewed in this in this world,
especially District twelve, Jessica, what would you recommend.

Speaker 4 (01:47:24):
Let's see well, Otavia Butler, because I agree, and although
parables or tears your heart out and then it continues
to tear your out part up, but it is very
creepy because it's very la right now, so that's disturbing.

Speaker 7 (01:47:38):
I also like ursul Legwin's Lathe of Heaven if we're
going classic classic here.

Speaker 4 (01:47:44):
But most recently I did just read the Size trilogy,
which in the political spectrum right now, is very interesting.
So if you kind of want to deal like jump
into a ya that it's a totally different world but
still a lot of fun. And if you enjoyed Hunger Games,
you'll probably enjoy some of the topics that it's covered
there as well as far as TV shows.

Speaker 7 (01:48:07):
Oh my god, I don't know, I'm gonna not reck.
I watch so much TV. I'm just like what Yeah,
So just that that's it for right now for me.

Speaker 6 (01:48:16):
Excellent, excellent, Becca. What would you recommend I have?

Speaker 9 (01:48:21):
Well, I have terrible taste in books because I read
absolute trash.

Speaker 8 (01:48:26):
And I love every second of it.

Speaker 1 (01:48:29):
It's reading Fourth Wing.

Speaker 7 (01:48:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, you should read Frushing.

Speaker 9 (01:48:33):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it. Fourth Wing is definitely like
an interesting world because they're like at a war college.
They're also kids who are you know, killing each other
and it's yeah, definitely was a very easy leap from the.

Speaker 8 (01:48:50):
Hunger Beam into the Fourth Wing World.

Speaker 9 (01:48:56):
The TV show I keep thinking about is Separance. So
that was the one that I would put on as
my recommendation.

Speaker 5 (01:49:07):
And yeah, if you.

Speaker 8 (01:49:08):
Want you know, trash romanticy, hit me up.

Speaker 4 (01:49:12):
Oh and I want to just say, well, I want
to say Battle Royale if no one's seen that movie,
the Japanese movie.

Speaker 7 (01:49:18):
Because it's a good follow up to the Hunger Games.

Speaker 6 (01:49:21):
Situation very much.

Speaker 5 (01:49:22):
So well I will I'll just throw out a few
things if anyone has not watched and or.

Speaker 6 (01:49:31):
Season one yet.

Speaker 5 (01:49:33):
There's a lot a lot of shared thematic content and
we have season two coming up. It really takes me
back to discussions we were having earlier about like how
divided it can be to like get a group of uh,
you know, oppressed individuals together, because there is in fighting,

(01:49:53):
there is competing motives and and uh you know, grudges
that we hold again to each other, and very often
the enemy, the Tultarian enemy, is very united in what
they're attempting. But I also throw out just some fan
based press content. We have a new Hunger Games editorial

(01:50:14):
called Spark of Hope by fan Base presses Travis Locatta
that was just posted. And then we have our fan
Base feature podcast on the Ballot of Songbirds and Snakes
back from twenty and twenty twenty. So I'll put links
to both of those in the show notes, but feel
free to check them out if you enjoyed this conversation.

(01:50:35):
I want to give a chance to each of you
to let people know where they can find you and
your work online before we wrap up. So why don't
we go around one more time and we'll do that. Jessica,
go ahead and start us off.

Speaker 4 (01:50:47):
The easiest place to find me is Wicked treepress dot com.

Speaker 7 (01:50:51):
I'm on Substack.

Speaker 4 (01:50:52):
I write Monster of the Week, which I write about
monsters and mythology and kind of explore some of these
themes while doing so. And I'm on Blue sk but
I am no longer on Instagram and Facebook, so can't
find me there anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:51:04):
Ashley, you can find my podcast geek History lesson. We're
all fine podcasts or had we take character histories and
break them down for you in about an hour. We
have almost six hundred episodes, and I think episode eight
was the Districts of pan m So if you want
to hear us real rusty recording in a closet with

(01:51:26):
no air conditioning wearing very little clothing. I highly recommend
going and checking that out as a real flying time.
You can find me all over the internet at Ashley v. Robinson.
The v is very important because Ashley Robinson is a
WNBA player. I don't want to fight for SEO, but
I do want to meet her. So if you know her,
I know she lives in La Hit a girl up.
If you want to see me doing videos and pama

(01:51:49):
moderating and all kind of stuff like that. I work
for pop First, the pop First dot com and I'm
gonna be at C two Eat You doing a bunch
of mainstage stuff all in some weeks from now. I
don't know what time is. So I got to get
out of play to Chicago some day and I think
that's ever. They have Wing to plug, Thank you so much,
excellent and Becca.

Speaker 9 (01:52:11):
Well, I'm not a creator, so the only thing I
can plug is the Cat's Chronicle.

Speaker 6 (01:52:17):
It's well worth plugging, which.

Speaker 8 (01:52:20):
Is well worth plugging.

Speaker 9 (01:52:22):
As I said at the start of this, it's something
that I'm very, very proud of, and I'm lucky enough
to get to work with Barbara and Bryant on it, and.

Speaker 6 (01:52:31):
I just think it's so special and magical.

Speaker 9 (01:52:33):
And if you know you're in the world of the
Hunger Games, then you want more, then come check us out.

Speaker 5 (01:52:38):
Yes, over over, I think over seventy episodes free to
check out all on Apple. Podcasts cover all the first
three books, Hunger Games, Catching Fire, and Mocking Jay, so
definitely check them out. And Ashley, we feel your pain
because I know that Barbara had to trap herself in
a closet and record under a blanket at some point

(01:53:00):
during really incredible heat because the air conditioners in our
apartment were building.

Speaker 6 (01:53:06):
We're making too much noise.

Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
So look, do you even have a podcast in Los
Angeles of any running time if you haven't recorded basically
naked with your spouse and a clause? You know what
I'm saying, that's the right bout.

Speaker 6 (01:53:18):
It's nowhere as exciting as it should sound. It's not
as horrible pain.

Speaker 5 (01:53:23):
It's like when we talked, it's pain and grief and
all of those things suffering trauma.

Speaker 6 (01:53:31):
But yes, check out the.

Speaker 5 (01:53:32):
Cat ANDUS chronicles and you know what, Becca, Ashley, Jessica,
thank you so much for making time for this. This
was a fantastic discussion. Definitely could have talked for another
hour or two on this book, and maybe we will
in the future, but really appreciate each of you showing
up for this.

Speaker 7 (01:53:50):
Yeah, thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (01:53:51):
Thank you friends, thanks for blowing my mind so.

Speaker 6 (01:53:56):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:53:56):
That wraps things up for this episode of the fan
Base Weekly podcast. I'm going to encourage you to like
both fan Base Press and the fan Base Weekly on Facebook,
on Twitter, on Blue Sky, and you can find fan
Base Press on YouTube. You also can subscribe to the
podcast by finding the fan Base Weekly on Apple Podcasts.

(01:54:17):
You can give us ratings and reviews there, which we'd
very much appreciate. They extend our visibility and help people
find us, and you also can become part of the conversation.
We have an email, it's Thefanbaseweekly at gmail dot com.
Send us any questions or comments you might have. We'd
love to share them in a future episode. Let us
know what you thought of Sunrise on the Reaping. We'd

(01:54:40):
love to hear your thoughts. Thank you as well to
our sponsor. Hellmouth Con twenty twenty five, presented by Fandom Charities,
Hellmouth Con is the ultimate convention for fans of Buffy,
the Vampire, Slayer, Angel and more This year, the convention
is back and bigger than ever, taking place on June
fourteenth and fifteenth, offering an unforgettable experience for diehard fans

(01:55:03):
and newcomers alike.

Speaker 6 (01:55:05):
You won't want to miss this.

Speaker 12 (01:55:06):
They actually hold the convention at the Sunnydale High School
location in Torrance, California. For updates, tickets, and announcements, be
sure to visit fandom charities dot org slash hellmouth con
Thank you for listening everyone. Once again, this has been
Brian Dylan for fanbase Press, where we celebrate fandoms and
create new ones.

Speaker 6 (01:55:28):
May the odds be ever in your favor.

Speaker 11 (01:55:31):
This has been part of the fan base Press podcast
network

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