Does Comedy Work in Fantasy? - Toss a Coin to Your Witcher - Geek History Lesson

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
In a world of meta modernism, our new favorite word.
Every successful series is a mix of genres. Everything is
like in Hamlet, tragic comedy, common tragedy, dark comedy, modern classic.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Nothing is pure and heartfelt anymore. Nothing is pure and
heart nothing is beart heartfelt any world do we live?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
I was looking for a word other than pure, and
I couldn't come up with one, And nothing's beera anymore.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Take two, Thank you for listening.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Fantasy in particular, high fantasy is a genre that takes
itself deadly serious.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Otherwise you would do it deadly serious.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
You're taking this because look, if you don't take high
fantasy deadly serious, we would all die laughing at generations
of a family inbreeding so that they can keep talking
to dragons inside their brain.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It's very silly if you think about it. That is
that's a that's a great description a game with your own.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Thank you so much, so, Jason, with all that deadly seriousness.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
And lack of purity on your.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Fantasy takes itself very very serious. So is comedy inherently
the opposite of fantasy.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Ah boy, No, I mean again, it's one of these.
It's a hard it's a hard Road to Hoe. As
some would say, it's a hard dividing line because you know,
when I think about storytelling, I sort of think that,
you know, you're either a comedy, you're a drama, or

(01:36):
you're kind of a you can you can kind of
you know, it's you're you're classic theatrics, right, You're a
comedy or a drama, and then everything else is sort
of subgenre tragedy, subgenre of drama, of either comedy or drama,
and there are certain ones that dip a toe in
each universe. Fantasy definitely leans more drama than it does comedy.

(01:58):
And I think a big reason that is is because
fantasy is automatically most of the time, unless you're doing
something like the amazing classic Hercules in New York.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, we've definitely definitely something that people are gonna be like, oh, yes.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
My favorite Arnold Soarzeka's first move American movie, Baby, check
it out. It's a movie that got them Conan and
but actually, go watch Conin. It's great. Conin is great,
you know, and you have to sort of like it's
it's a big buye to watch fantasy. And so I
think that's the reason why it's most of the time
not comedic because because if you put too many jokes

(02:40):
in it, then all the jokes are gonna be like,
what the hell is this lizard creature? Why? Why are
they wearing flowers around their ears? Why are there witches?
Like you would you would poke fun in the world.
It's it's the it's the weird dividing line between like,
you know, superheroes as well, because like guys Man's a
stupid name, a person that wears their underwear on the outside,
Batman and Superman is pretty dopey, and you have to

(03:04):
be very careful because you know. So I don't see
I've lost the road of your question. So I don't know.
Our fantasy and comedy antithetical to each other. Are they opposites? No?
But they're hard to do well together. It's a it's
a it takes a skilled creator, I think to do

(03:24):
to do to do both well.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Now that we have Jason on our side, I think
it's time to toss a coin to our I don't know.
If I said that, you said yes, that means you agree
because you are listening to geek History lesson, and I'm
gonna say hello and welcome to geek History Lesson.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'm Ashley, Victoria Robinson, I'm Jason, and then welcome to
your mind. You know I missed the missprends, the whole none.
Welcome to your mind of whiches have got me. Welcome
to your mind University, because this is the podcast which
we call the wyan University, which also calls a geek
history Lesson, where one TV writer from Kansas, that's me,
and one comic book writer from Canada that's Ashley me

(03:57):
teach you all you need to know about one character
of one subject in a little bit less than an hour.
And Ashley, what are we talking about today? Today?

Speaker 1 (04:05):
We are talking about the uh dubious marriage of comedy
and fantasy, and we are doing so in celebration of
the Witcher. Sirens of the Deep rolling onto Netflix.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Is that the subtitle for their new season, Sirens of
the Deep.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
So this is the first Witcher spinoff. This is the
animated series.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Oh whoa, yeah, yeah, animated. I thought it was the thing.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's it's not the thing I mean it is. It's
the Witcher is branded.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
It is it is the thing. I know, no insult
to the other Witcher thing.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
So we're gonna we're gonna dive into fantasy, which is
a particular love of mine but definitely a hot topic
that we've danced around here on geek history lesson.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
So it's time to get into it.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
And before we do that, yeah, I'm gonna give you
a quick ten cent origin of The Witcher in case
of something that maybe you're not familiar with.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
So, The Witcher is a series of nine fantasy novels
and fifteen short stories, first published in nineteen eighty six
full stop. I did not know until this big age
that the video games were based on the books and
not the other way around.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
See that's one of the few things about The Witcher
that I did know.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
This this literally blue mind. The Witcher was created by
Polish author On Daisy.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Did you know that, Sebkowski?

Speaker 1 (05:28):
I apologize, I am not Polish. I have started reading
your work and it's really great and no disrespect.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
He's a good writer. It's my grappy pronunciation. Yes.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
Subsequent adaptations have included a video game series, which is
made up of three main games, two expansion packs, and
seven spinoff games Casual. A fourth game is in development
and will be the start of a new trilogy. A
Netflix streaming show starring Henry Cavill and the Lesser Hemsworth
I can't remember his name right now, which has expanded

(06:00):
three seasons, and of course, uh, the Witcher's Sirens of
the Deep, which is currently streaming and features Doug Cockle
as Gerald. So we don't have Henry or Cavill Caville
Superman reprising reprising the role.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
So we have our third Garldt of Rivia. It is interesting.
I you know, Annry, I'm so sorry. Liam Hemswear Yeah,
Liams was gonna play him in the new Live action
I know season that's still to come or has to
come out. Oh okay, it came out and not a
word Wizard of that uh.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
And the series revolves around the eponymous Witcher, Garald of Rivia.
I used to call him Gerald of Rivera for blocked
Jerald Gerald Gerald Rivera.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know your neighbor who runs the potato Jerald Rivera
is your neighbor. Yeah, with the light. He's in charge
of the hoa. He's the one that tells you. He's
the one that tells you the trim your hedges. Yeah,
he does give those vibes.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Witchers are monster hunters given superhuman abilities with the purpose
of killing dangerous creatures, and so that is your ten
cent origin on the world of the Twitcher Jason.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yes, but we're also gonna like be diving into a
lot of fantasy. Yes, but Witcher is going to be
our jumping off point today. Yeah, what would you like,
real quick, like, what would you give a one sentence
description for like fantasy? Like, you know, like if someone
to say, Ashley, what is it? What is a fantasy story?
What would you tell them?

Speaker 1 (07:22):
So fantasy, I would say is sword and sorcery.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Okay, it's pretty good. That's a pretty good explanation of it.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
We're gonna we're going to spend most of this episode
specifically talking about high fantasy, yes, versus urban fantasy. We'll
talk about urban fantasy a little bit, so to break
those down for you, and I will specifically say high fantasy.
High fantasy is lord of the Rings, level fantasy, elves, witches, magic, DRAGONO.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
What does the qualifier high mean in that?

Speaker 1 (07:53):
So it's it's high. Is that it's the level of
depth of world building. Okay, Okay, so it's you've created
a new world. Urban fantasy is usually modern and takes
place on Earth. So like the Dresden Files, Percy.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Jackson, like Harry Potter, could be considered an urban fantasy.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, it should also be considered something you don't waste
your time reading.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
But as an example, it is a pretty well known yes, ya,
like the Dark Tower could. Well, the Dark Tower is.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Let's not talk about the Dark Tower because I think
it crosses too many genres of the conversation that we're
going to happen fighting words, Okay, I think it's too
complicated for what we're trying to drill down on the
Lord of the Rings.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Absolutely, Okay, So that's trying to think about more urban fantasies.
Supernatural kind of no.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Supernatural one hundred percent, Twitches, Charmed, Buffy, a lot of
television because urban fantasy is cheaper to produce because you
don't have to build sets. That's right, and a lot
more books are high fantasy.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
In fact, everybody out there who's never thought about that before,
that is the reason why so many TV shows take
place in the modern day, because it is way too
expensive to get all those period specific cars and the
build sets.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah. So now that we've established that, I have a
question for you, Jason. You have neither played the Witcher games.
This is nor read the Witcher books. This is nor comic books.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
I've read like a chapter of one of the Witcher books.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
So I'm trying to prove a point with this. What
do you know about the Witcher television show?

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I know his name is Gerald Rivia. Yeah, I know
he has very beautiful white hair. He has a big
O's sword, huh. I know that Henry Cavill starved himself
of food and water, and generations of people will be
grateful for us for some bathtub scene that you get
to see his butt. Twelve out of ten? Does he
have a twelve out of ten? Oh? Yeah, I mean
he looks incredible. But also I will say no, no,

(09:43):
does half a twelve out of ten? Oh? I mean
we weren't. We weren't so blessed. Netflix didn't offer a.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I will say, though, mister Cavell, if you're listening, I
know you're a fan.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
You could eat some more hamburgers and we wouldn't be
mad about it. It's okay. You don't have to starve yourself.
But I'll put on an invite right here, mister Cavell,
you're listening. I also love your work, love that mustache
from Mission Impossible fall Out. I know it caused so
many problems, but it looks damn good. You should keep it,
and you know, feel free to come on, come talk
about Warhammer forty kiss. I was just gonna say, I
was gonna give the invite to come buy because I
don't know a damn thing about it, and please tell

(10:14):
us about it. I know he has a big ol' sword, yep.
And I know that at the edge of the world
you fight the mighty horde that bashes and breaks you
and brings you to more.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Okay, good, this is what I was fishing for, because
as far as I know, the only thing that Jason
actually knows about the Witcher is the song tssa coin
to your Witcher.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
No oh no, no, no, no no, you cannot say
it that way. You have to say, toss a coin
to your witches. It's a good value of blende. It
is it a valet. It's a great melody, genuinely excellent.
Say those words like I it's funny like that song
because you listened to it a bit after you when

(10:56):
you heard this when you watch.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
The show, I loved it. I was actually, here's a
fun story. I was packing a bunch of secret mail
level gifts for our patrons, and I was just listening
to the three minute song on repeat, and you came
in and listened to the whole thing, and you were like, Oh,
this is like a genuinely good zag.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
It came in a couple of playlists that I listened to,
some like film score playlists. Yeah, and there's a couple
of covers of this, and I was like, oh, this
is a good song, like that melody is addictive.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yes, So Joey Batty plays just skier. The Bard sings
the song, so shout out to him. He's actually reprising
his role in Sirens of the Deep in the show,
So if you're a big Bard, stand enjoy that. But
I think the song is a literal has become a
literal meme, and it's a comedy song, and I think
it illustrates how you can beautifully marry.

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Comedy and fantasy really well.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I mean, there's a line that goes, while the devil's
horns mincetar tender meat, so cried the Witcher, he can't
be bleaed.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I want to what does that mean? I want to
give a shout out. I was also hoping you would
do this because the lyrics to this song, specifically, the
lyrics are written by Jenny Klein, who was a writer
on the show. She wrote the lyrics. She didn't write
the music, but she wrote the lyrics to that song.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But I think it's I think it's
interesting that the most iconic thing about the Witcher television series,
other than Henry Cavill's nudity, that is this very silly song.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
Tasa going to your Witcher. It's a great song if
you like. I literally just googled it right now. One
of the top Google prompts is why is tassa coin
to your Witch are so catchy? Yeah? Well, because it's
written in for four? Is the answer to that? Isn't
every song written for fur.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Most pop songs are written in four four, which mimic
the human heartbeat, which is why something like espresso or
toscoid your Witcher kind of get stuck in your brain
because let's get.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Your biology. We're not talking we're not talking coins anymore.
So I don't want to talk coins. I want to
talk Witcher's.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
We're going to talk more Witchers. So would you like
to know what one of the main criticisms that Witcher
fans have about the television show adaptation.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Sure, so one of the book fans. I'm assuming the
book fans. Yeah, people who are or even video game fans.
That's a fun fact. I have a friend who worked
with Son Richard Diaries who is a huge fan of
the Witcher video games. That was another thing that I
knew about the when the show happened. I just knew
he played the video games all the time.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah. I have a very good friend and she loves
the games, loves the comics, loves the books, and hates
the television show with the passion of a thousand sides.
And that's actually super common. There's a big divide in.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
The what's the big criticism of the show? Like, what
is the thing that they'd all don't like?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
So I'll say, like, sort of the original canon fans
don't like that the TV show is so silly because
the books are very serious and they are authentically based
in Polish mythology. They're really well researched. There's a huge
which depth of world building, and the show is very silly,

(14:05):
from some of the desired aspects to some of the performances,
to the way the stories are told. Now, that's something
that I enjoy about the show, sure, is that sometimes
you watch it and you're like, I literally have no
idea what's happening.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
I'm having a wonderful time.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
And so I think it's interesting that the thing that
has resonated with Witch your fans on a larger scale
is this sort of putting a toe in the world
of comedy. But the Witcher peerists are like, I thank you, but.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I hate it. And I think that can be like.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
A complexity in fandom, and it goes into that discussion
that you and I always have about adaptation, so we
don't have to run down that road.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
But just thought I thought that was interesting.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I want to ask you, Jason, to pivot a little
bit back to the main discussion. Sure, does comedy sometimes
feel disrespectful when you put it in fantasy because it
can be seen as punching down.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Uh No, I don't see it's funny. I don't think
comedy is punching down on something. I get what you're saying,
because something that is, you know, for example, right, like
when you look at a film like Schindler's List, right,
it would feel very strange in Schindler's List, if there
was like a joke of page, you would be like,

(15:16):
what is going on with this movie about the Holocaust? Yeah?
Whereas if you look at a movie like you know,
I would say Shawshank Redemption, which is also a very
serious movie about a man stuck in a prison for
a crime that he did not commit. But in Shawshank Redemption,

(15:37):
which is also OSCAR nominated film, right, if you didn't
have the humor in shash Ank Redemption, you couldn't watch
that movie. It would be so beyond dark that you
would never ever watch that movie. And I think there
are places for both. But I do think I would say,
like in our modern world, or in sort of our

(16:00):
modern system of making movies and television, I do think
we lean on humor too much. I agree.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
Look, I'll say with my full chest, I think there
is humor in genre before Guardians of the Galaxy and
after Guardians of the Galaxy. I also think the type
of humor that's widely popular to a Western audience, I
think there's before YouTube and after YouTube.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
I agree. I think I think those are good dividing lines.
I mean, Guardians made a billion dollars, so it isn't
You can see a difference in like big budget movies
post Guardians and because everybody's still trying to chase Guardians
of the Galaxy. Yeah, it's like if you if you
make any movie about a group, even if it was
a fantasy movie. Like if somebody wanted to make a
fantasy group movie, I guarantee you some executive somewhere would say,

(16:46):
but can it be more like Guardians the Galaxy? Yeah, Like, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
The only shorthand we have for a group of like
scoundrels working together.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, and you know, and it's funny because like, yeah,
I know, humor sometimes can be view dude as simple
and basse. Yeah, yes, and very base. But humor also
can be if it's written well, can elevate things. I agree,
and I get it because like fantasy is slightly elevated

(17:16):
because you're asking your audience to accept a world that
doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Well, and as you say, the buy in is higher,
so you're like, oh, well there's elves and fairies.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
And it's real easy to be like the elves, very easy. Yeah,
the bar entry is already there, uh huh.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
And and because we also all have like fantasy creatures
and tropes that we like and that we don't like.
So sometimes those can be bigger acts.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Can I ask you a question that I honestly don't
know the answer to. No, Okay, of course, thank you, Frid.
Just accepting that Jason's a very good at provident.

Speaker 3 (17:48):
We're moving on the Whatcher Show is successful? Yeah, I
mean we're making the fourth this is the fourth season.
We're going to go into a fifth, a fourth live
action season. Yeah, and use it's obviously by whatever invisible metric.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's successful. There's an active feat. They've been making another
video game. Yeah, okay, so it's successful, and it's very
humor based. It's again it's very silly. So it seems
like you know, and I know that's sort of like
the whole idea of this episode is like how can
fantasy and humor sort of tie together? But like, I
think The Butcher has proved that it can work. Here's
the crazy thing about this one of your favorite things

(18:24):
of all time, the Lord of the Rings, for being
a very serious trilogy as a lot of humor in it. Oh,
we have I have points about that to bring.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
I think Lord of the Rings is both an example
of how this can be done well.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, and also also Best Picture winner right there. Yeah, yeah,
you know.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
But I also think so we can jump to this
right now. I was going to ask you, you are
Lord of the Rings in Game of Thrones. For a
modern contemporary person engaging with media, are they to blame
for the serious tone that we associate with high fantasy?
I mean Lord of the Rings of particular, it's kind
of easy to blame at its feet because it's famously

(19:01):
a man working through his trauma as a result of surviving.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
A World War. Yeah, Lord of the Rings. Yeah, but the.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Film adaptations in particular have contributed so much to meme
and early internet comedy culture, like the po Ta toes
They're taking the Hobbits to Eisngard that meme song.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Game of Thrones.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Also a lot of the reaction shots have become memes,
like the Shame.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Lady is a meme. Oh, but here's the thing, there
is lots of humor and Game of Thrones. Oh ton,
and Game of Thrones is deathly serious. It's funny. Like
the point you made about Guardians of the Galaxy, there is
a same point for Game of Thrones. There is fantasy
after Game of Thrones, and there is fantasy before Game
of throneses kind of.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
The Battlestar Galactaga of the fantasy genre, where they're their
sci fi before BSG and after.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
And the clearest example of that is watching What Happened
to The Lord of the Rings uh live action franchise
before and after Game of Thrones, because the Lord of
the Rings TV show Rings Power has a tone that
those movies do not, and it's because it's a post
Game of Throw. It's directly trying to be Game of
Throw and Game of Throne. That's that's the that's the
dragon that every fantasy series is going to be chasing

(20:08):
from now, Like every executive shorthand with fantasy is going
to be like can we make it more like Game
of Thrones or can we make it less like Game
of Thrones? But Game of Thrones, like the character of Braun,
who is like the cell Sword, that's sort of like
wandering through that retire. He is a very funny character,
is a very funny character, and that show is deathly

(20:29):
serious and it's funny, like what you said about Lord
of the Ring is very funny. Because Game of Thrones
is a story of how governments are so ineffectual against
climate change. And if you don't know that, that's what
the story of Game of Thrones is, watch it again.

(20:49):
That is exactly what the I zombies are. They are
climate change marching towards us, and how nobody can agree
how to stop it. Yeah, because they're all fighting of
her power. Yeah. Yeah, and he wrote that the nineties. Yeah, yeah,
you know, but you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
Like it's but particularly with Lord of the Rings, like
if you read Tolkien, yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
The Hobbits are just goofys as in themselves.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
But if you if you read the books particularly I'm
rereading the Hobbit right now, so it's sort of in mind.
They are singing while they're walking, they're joking while they're
hanging out, they're sleeping naked in the.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Grass, they're eating the mushroom Martin. Right.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
There really are moments of levity, like like like again
in the Hobbit, look at the look at when the
door of the Unexpected Party when they all show up
and eat all the Bilbo's food and Bilbo's has a
conniption fit because they're eating all his food, like it's funny.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
There is a TV writer, Ndolph it's very funny. There
is a TV writer who I will not name on
this podcast because he's done some very despicable things, but
he ran several shows in the two thousands and may
have launched a superhero franchise. And he used to have
a line that I actually do think is very apt,
and it's Lord of the Rings in J. R. Tolkien's
writing is a great example of this is that you

(22:00):
cannot get to the lows and the hurtful moments of
drama without the highs of levity, and it's and also
he kind of sort of created a trope that like
we are still chasing from the two thousands, where in
one of his television shows it was very it. At
the time, we didn't know it because it was the

(22:22):
first time we were experiencing this, But so many shows
have copied this now because it's actually pretty good. But
now so many shows of copy has become a trope
that like generally in a television show, now, if you
have an episode where like a character literally has the
best day of their life, they're gonna be dead announcement,
They're literally going to die the next episode, you know,

(22:44):
because you put them up high to knock them down
low right, And Jerald Tolkien does that to an effect,
because like writing in tone is highs and lows, highs
and lows. One of my favorite writers of all time
is the even Mofatt m hmm, the Shownner doctor who
created Sherlock, did all this stuff like that wrote the

(23:04):
Tintin movie, yes, which I think think is pretty good.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
But he said, and it's a quote that I try
to live by, although it's hard to like put into
your writing, is that he says, what is the point
of writing anything if there's not at least one funny
thing on every page of your script? And again, some
of those Sherlock episodes are pretty dark, yeah, particularly the

(23:30):
first two seasons, but there's a lot of funny moments
in that show. Yeah, for both characters.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
I mean, and then and then Andrew Scott shows up
and he's playing more already the clown, and I love
his performances.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Mart So I would say, like, again, I haven't seen
the Witcher, but like I would say, it's a balance,
it's it's always a balance, like it's very much, you know,
Like I would say, I would say the MCU, the
marvel Sen universe does too. Much comedy. I would agree,
I think they do too much comedy. Yeah, one of
my favorite franchise is Star Trek. Sometimes I think Star

(24:03):
Trek doesn't do enough. I think sometimes Star Trek is
too afraid of comedy and they're always like, we are serious.
Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
But then by and sci fi obviously is the cousin
of fantasy. But then by contrast, you have a comedy
series in the world of Star Trek, Star Trek Lord Dex,
which is I mean, for my money, the best show
of this new generation of Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
So and it's and again it's always a balance. It's
a weird it's a weird, weird balance. I mean it
is interesting. Oh you know what, it's funny. I can't
believe I didn't bring this up. There is a comedy
fantasy movie that literally came out in the last two
years that I think is excellent, and that is the
Dungeons and Dragons movie. Jason.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
I'm so glad you brought that up, oh, because that
is deeply in my notes for us.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
To speak about it is.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yes, And I had a whole setup for you, and
I was really hoping you were going to struggle more
to get there, So let's gather our thoughts. Un done, Dragons,
we got a role for experience, and we'll come back
in just a second. Okay, we are back on geek
history lesson. We have rolled for our podcasting abilities. It's
coming strong. And so we're gonna talk about the Dungeons

(25:13):
and Dragons movie, which no word of a Lie is
one of Jesus's favorite movies, and I'm so thrilled that
he's gonna get to chat with us about the one.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
And we're talking about the one from twenty twenty three,
not the one from like, you know, twenty ten that
nobody wants to talk about, or the TV show from
the eighties. Yeah, but there's a Jeremy Irons one from
like I think twenty eight twentive. I live, have no idea,
it's best forgotten. But we're gonna talk about the one honor.
It's called Dune and Dragons colon Honor among Thieves.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yes, that's what we're gonna talk about. Uh, you really
enjoyed this. Why do you think in this movie our
two genres of discussion today were melded so successfully? I
know you think the script is really brilliant.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, the script is written by Jonathan Goldstein, John Francis
Daily and Michael Gillio, and I did not know this.
I look it up the credits. The story is by
Chris McKay, which is Jason Favorite, the man who wrote
and directed the Lego Batman movie and What's supposed to

(26:12):
do night Wing and I Will die?

Speaker 1 (26:13):
I Will die, Austin Brandon Marina will was I furious
that that never happened?

Speaker 2 (26:17):
He uh, he's I think the Lego Batman movie is
fucked is excellent, Yeah, very very funny. I don't know,
like it's it's it's so interesting because that whole movie
is a comedy. Like it is there is and it's dramatic,

(26:38):
but like from the beginning, it is a comedy. You know,
what's the question here?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
How do we why or how do you think it
melds the two genres so successfully?

Speaker 2 (26:54):
You know? The thing that I think that Dungeon and
Dragon movie does well, and I'm going to credit that
John the Goldstein, John Francis Daily and Michael Gillio intentionally
made this choice, is that because Dungeons and Dragons is
a game, the thing that I think they do really

(27:15):
well in that movie is they put you in the
POV of every character, like you start the movie out
in the POV basically of Chris Pine's character ed edginon Yes,
and because it starts with him telling you the story. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
My favorite moment is the introduction of Sophia Llllis's character,
She's the tee Fling, because you like follow her as
she's transforming into all her different forms. And I think
the way that's done, it's not quite a first person cam,
but it's very like similar, so you kind of get
a really quick intro to like, oh, this is what
this type of character is.

Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah. But the brilliant thing about it is that the
movie basically starts with Edgin telling you a story, because
like that is sort of his superpower, is that he
is a like really good storyteller. Well, he's a.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Bard, which is also what Jaski is in The Witcher. Yeah,
I'm seeing we're noticing trend.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
That's such a great choice because they didn't make a
wizard or the or the Swordsman the lead character, which
would be like a Tolkien Martin choice. They made this
it would be like Lord of the Rings being told
from the perspective of Pippin. That was I actually had that. Yeah. Yeah,
so like that automatically makes it a comedy. But then
the brilliant thing I think they do in the and

(28:28):
they do it in the first five minutes, is they
show you that he is an unreliable narrator. He lies, Yeah,
and so I mean, with no disrespect, he's an idiot.
He's an idiot. And I'll say this, I think Chris
Pine like plays the part very well. I think he
is so good in this movie. I just think everybody

(28:49):
is really good in this movie. And I don't know,
it just has it has an energy to it that
a lot of fantasy movie doesn't. And and because of
that energy and because it like drops you into the POV,
like within five minutes of the movie, there is literally
a human egle creer. There's literally a human with an

(29:11):
eagle head and you can tell it's a puppet. Yeah.
But because the movie has this like tone that is
like the movie basically like the movie is the example
of the classic call to action. It is the movie
is that character that like has come in your door
and is like, you need to come on this adventure
with me right now. You cannot ask me questions. Go
go go, go go ye, yeah, and like it just
never lets up. So when the when the puppet egle

(29:34):
guy walks in and look, it looks kind of goofy,
It's fine, it's fine. But because Chris Pine is playing
the hell out of this part and there's an energetic POV,
you just ride with it. You're just like, I don't
care that this looks goofy. I'm having a good time.
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Do you think it's a result of Dungeons and Dragons
is based on a role playing game?

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Role Playing games, when they.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Are successful, rely heavily on improv, and improv is inherent
a performance style that lends itself to comedy.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I have a feeling that there's a lot of
improv in that movie too.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
So do you think it's just in the bones of
Dungeons and Dragons, that it of of a high fantasy
archetypical storytelling that it's more likely to succeed comedically.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
I don't know, because I would say, again, there's the
other Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah, that doesn't quite get there.
It took itself so deathly serious, deathly serious, to the
point that it was beyond boring. Yeah, it was beyond boring.
Like again, when this movie came out, everybody was everybody

(30:36):
basically expected it to be like the other movie. Everybody
was like, this is gonna be not great. And I
think Jonathan Goldcie and John Francis Daily were geniuses in
the writing of this because I think they and you
can tell it's an intentional choice where they're like, we're
going to be as far away from that movie as possible. Yeah.
I also think they realized they saw the bar, the

(31:00):
high bar that high fantasy has, and I think they
were like, we need to lower this bar to where
even a kid can crawl over it. Yeah, And I
think they succeeded. I really do. I think this is
a movie that your entire family can watch.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
I really do, because by con you talk about the
high bar of high fantasy, but like urban fantasy doesn't
necessarily make it easier, Like Percy Jackson is urban fantasy.
It does have comedy, but it's usually like a lighthearted
moment or jabs made out of levity that immediately precede
a moment of serious danger. Kind of the thing that
you were saying, like, you set them up really high

(31:34):
before you take them really low. A more adult example
of that is like The Dresden Files, it's not classified
as a comedy, but Harry Dresden is this like hardened
gum shoes sarcastic's an womanizer. Yeah, yeah, yea yeah, he's
rooted in the delivery of lines, and that lays the
seed for comedy. But when you're reading it like it's not,

(31:56):
you're not like chuckling every time you can pick up
a Harry Dresden buk.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
To say the same thing about hell Blazer. Yeah. And
John Constant Yeah, because like you, it's everything he's dealing
with is pretty deathly serious. But it's just the way
John Constantine talks about things that kind of makes you
chuckle and laugh because you're just like, oh my god,
who is this guy?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
By the way, I just want to let people know
if you're like, I'm having a nice time hearing you
talk about fantasy, but I would like to hear a
little bit more about other genres. You definitely want to
check out today's episode of ge Kissy Less, an extra,
which you can get over on our Patreony what Patreon
dot com. Sash Jawa oh okay, and I'll spell that
for you. It's jaw ii ed thank good, very important spelling.
You may know this, but Jason actually worked on a

(32:38):
genre with quite a bit of comedy and it recently
Star Trek Section thirty one. We have now watched the
final product with some of our Red Shirt Diary a
lot as.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
A web series. We made a Star Trek web series
Fan May we made ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
And two people from it went on to work on
Star Trek Section thirty one. So we are gonna dive
into Jason's mind give you some Red Shirt Diaries Section
thirty one reflections with a little more spoilers than we've
been offering up to this point, so come and check
that out. Also, while you're over on the Patreon, we
have not only a kiss lesson acture, we have Talking

(33:13):
Titans with Me and Diego Anthony Nuniez where we're watching
through the show.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Exclusive podcast where you guys talk about teen Titans the
Man series. We also have like over fifty episodes of
Jason Jeremy John about Justice League, which is the podcast
where we review the Just leeguhanam Mad series. We have
video series Crisis Club. We also have a Patreon exclusive
discord and then also added bonus if you hate ads,
and I'm sorry. We live in a world where you
gotta have ads everybody, and we thank you for listening

(33:37):
to them. But if you don't want to listen to
any ads, you got to add free episodes ke kish
Lesson over on the Patreon, So just come over check
that out.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Come get your sci fi fixed to compliment your fantasy
fix this week.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Or someone say, tassa coin to your Patreon, your Patreon podcast, Jason,
it would have ASA going to your me, Jason, Oh,
Valley of Kansas. You're breaking the meter.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
You're killing me. But please check that out. That's gonna
be a lot of fun. Back to the fantasy stuff, Jason.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yes, is it easier? He thrust with every health fa
back on the shelf, high up in the mountains. Yeah,
from winds. Some of these from some of these lyrics
are are rough to see. They're very silly.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
I remember when I was listening try I'm like, oh,
I'm going to learn the words to this, and then you're.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Like, what he wiped out your past, got kicked in
his chest. He's a friend of your mon Ye. Yeah,
he sings at highlight that so that's why I'm doing
like that.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, Well, when you get a musical theater, girlie, they
can really sing it.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
It's it's frankly very that's my epic two. Oh cha prevailed,
Like what, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Look, here's my here's my hot take about songwriting. And
I don't mean this at all to sound disrespectful.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's the same thing with poetry. Sometimes words don't matter.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Sometimes you just got to make it sound.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Sometimes it's the vibe, and that is a difficult thing
to quantify, like comedy.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
That's a line from John Lennon. John Lennon say that
John Lennon would just be like, just make it sound good. Yeah,
it doesn't matter if it makes sense. Yeah, I mean
if it can evoke something. That's the most important.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
And that's what makes something art right is if you
have a reaction to a good song, if you feel
something it's.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Such a good song.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Is it easier do you think to find comedy within
the realm of fantasy if you have a specific character
carrying that flag? We talked about j Skier and Edgar
Darvis the Bards, but also like Pippin Took in Lord
of the Rings or Tyrian in Game of Thrones, Like
is it easier if you're like, this is the funny usually.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
A man as opposed to like, we're just going to
do comedy.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Yes, And why is that easier for someone who maybe
has never written something before.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Well, because it's it's there. Because we all know those people.
Mm hmm. All of us have a goofball friend, right,
all of us have a friend that doesn't take serious
take seriously. Maybe they maybe they say movie quotes all
the time, maybe they do things like that. We all
have that friends. They're a little bit naive. So it's
a very easy one to one to plug that character

(36:09):
into a story. Yeah, it is a it's a it's
a writing exercise. It's like you have the character that
takes things too seriously, you know, and then hopefully, if
you're a good writer or you're reading a good story,
those characters change. So the comedic character becomes a little
bit more serious and the serious character becomes a little
bit more comedic. But I will say, like, you know,

(36:30):
and I think this thing gets forgotten a lot. Ooh.
The easiest way to create comedy in your writing, because
writing comedy is is heard. Yeah, that's why I like comedy.
Writers who are good at their jobs deserve all the money. Yeah,
comedy is you're putting characters in situations that they are

(36:52):
not normally in, like saving the world, which is also like,
well that's also drama, right, that that creates high drama,
But like, yeah, you don't.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
You don't turn on the witcher and you're like, I'm
gonna watch garyl sitting around his house scratching.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
His butt all day, or I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna watch him in the tavern for an hour. Yeah, Like,
there's no conflict that creates drama is conflict that also
creates comedy, And generally the best way to create that
comedy is to have a character realize how screwed up
their situation. Yeah, how outstripped they are in this situation.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
I mean you bring up a tavern, Like, yeah, you
can have you can have a classic fantasy trope a
fight in a tavern. It could either go horrible and
be very very serious, or it can be like the
funniest sequence in a story.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
So, like, the easy example to that as well is okay,
so you have your fantasy characters sit in the tavern, right,
all right, So that's not that interesting, right, Okay, So
let's make it a little bit more interesting. Okay, your
fantasy character just spent the last two days fighting track.
He's worn out, comes in the tavern, he's exhausted. Okay,

(38:04):
So now that now we got it a little bit
more interested, but still's not that it's not that interesting really. Okay,
so he fought a dragon for two days, he's tired,
he just wants a drink. The second he sits down
and Ogre taps him on the shoulder and says, that's
my seat. Oh, now we're getting a little bit more
interesting because like, this guy just wants to sit. He doesn't.

(38:25):
He just got done fighting. Now he's got a fight.
We're escalating the conflict. We're rescuing the thing. Right. You
may recognize these strokes from such movies as Star Wars
A New Hope. Yeah, but then you increase it in
any more. The easy way to add comedy to that
is you would literally just have your fantasy character say
something about can I buy you a drink, beautiful or

(38:45):
something before we start this fight. Yeah, So like you
give him some quippie line or something like that, and
then of course you escalate the conflict there, because whatever
your fantasy character says is gonna immediately the wrong answer
is the wrong answer, and it's gonna make the ogre
punch him in the face.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yah, it's gonna it's going to and that will end
up with somebody throwing hand.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah. So that is again we just we just served
both masters of you know, there's comedy of that and
there's drama in that. Yeah, and there's conflict. Comedy drama
all come from conflict. But a lot of it is again,
like it is literally just having that character be like, man,
I just want to drink. Come on, Like having your
character say something that the audience like sort of realizing

(39:23):
the role that the audience knows.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Oh, I mean that was such a good summation. Like
I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. I don't
know how to come back for that. I'll tell you what, Friends,
We're gonna take a little break because I want to
come back and ask Jason a question about tone, which
is something that we've been dancing around here for.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
A little while. So I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
We got a role for Podcasting Initiative one more time
and we'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
We are back.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
It is geek history lesson. We got a natural twenties
so we're just gonna keep on podcasting. We got D
and D jokes because this is a comedy podcast. It's
definitely not. But I want to ask you, Jason, because
you gave a really good example of how how you
can write a very familiar fantasy scene and how you
can have it serve both comedy and drama, which is

(40:09):
sort of what we associate fantasy as a subgenre of.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Better you want to add, you want to add more
drama and more comedy in that scene that to Ojabatic,
Ogre punches that fantasy character in the face right. The
fight happens all over the bar. What you do is
you simply have the bartender in the tavern pour the mead,
and the whole scene is the Ogre and him are fighting,
and the bartender keeps trying to hand him the drink,

(40:36):
and just at the second that the the hero is
a is about to grab the drink, the Ogre pulls
them away again. So it's like you watch, he's like,
I just need a stiff drink. So he's like, you know,
like every like there and again increases drama, increases comedy.
So and then you end it with the bartender drinks
the drink. Oh I like that, and that's not very professional, sir,

(40:57):
I know, but he gets tired of holding it, and
he's like, oh, what could you argue that?

Speaker 1 (41:03):
It doesn't really matter how serious the inherent trappings of
your fantasy world are, because delivery in whatever medium, pro
script whatever, and tone are what like like, delivery and
tone are what make comedy. You can write jokes, but
if they're not delivered, well, it doesn't really matter. So

(41:24):
is it in terms of only like the Witcher is
your I guess my point is is you're casting even
more important than you're writing, because we're trying to evoke
tone with comedy.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
I guess I don't understand your question.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
So comedy really only works in the delivery, right, because
it's tone. Yeah, so you can write a funny joke,
but if you don't have a great actor deliver it,
it's not going to make people laugh. Sure, So we've
been giving a lot of credit to the writing. But
it is casting in terms of like something like the
Witcher's casting is equally important.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Yeah, yeah, of course, you know, but that's with every
project though, you know, it depends on who you're cast.
I mean, I mean, but how does that, like, I mean,
you tell me, how do you see tone in something
that's written, because you know, like, well that's like yeah,
like because you're reading the Hobbit right now, right, Yeah,
they're funny moments in the Hobbit. But how does how
does the Master himself Tolkien do comedy in pros.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
The way the way that you evoke the idea of
casting in pros is it's like the description of your character, right,
like it's you.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
You give that.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
You don't give a comedy line to Thorin because Thorn
takes himself so seriously.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Torn is like Thorin is like such.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
A buzzkill at every available opportunity, you give it to
Pheey and Kihly because they're young and they're rambunctious and
they're ambitious and like.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You're gonna chuckle more at.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
You either need to give the comedy moments and the
jokes to the characters that it's inherent, or if you're
gonna give it to a character where it doesn't seem serious,
you have to be very specific about it. So Bjorn,
who's the big skin changer guy whose house they stay at,
he turns into a bear. He's not really funny. He's
very scary and he stalks them as a bear for
like quite some time. He's like a very and he's

(43:08):
a character that we don't like quite understand what he is.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, but he's got.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Jokes and it's unexpected because he's a character where there's
a lot of tension around him, and so giving him
the moment to break the tension is funny.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Okay. Is Gandalf funny in the Hobbit book originally? Yeah,
Gandolf's a chaos monster. Yeah, because Gandolf is funny.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I don't know if Gandolf's funny intentionally, I'll be honest
about you. Gandolf is funny because Gandolf is like, well,
I'm gonna come with you for a while and then.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
I'm gonna leave you alone. I got stuff to do.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
And then Thorn's like, well, when are you gonna leave
us alone? And He's like probably when you get to
the mountain. And Thorn's like, oh, during the most important thing,
and Gandalf's like, yeah, good luck.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Like that's why Gandolf is funny. You know where Gandoff
goes in that book to go talk to gondor Nope,
he goes to a tavern, and he goes to the
town and he's like, I've just spent all this time
with like fifteen dwarves in a little yeah, and he's like,
I just need a drink, and then an ogre and
then Gandolf rolls through the bar.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
You know what, of all the story, Gandolf would be
the one I would believe that. I would believe that
Gandolf would get in like a drunken brawls that Gilly
We know what's going on somewhere, you know what's going on.
Gilly Weed is a Harry Potter thing.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Oh sorry, he smokes that the old Toby gilly Weed
is that thing that helps you drink, breathe underwater. Yeah,
but I bet if you smoke it, whoo, Yeah, you're
really gonna You're gonna see all them pretty colors. You
know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (44:33):
You know what I mean. So, since comedy is so
difficult to begin with, if I'm a writer and I'm
sitting down and I'm like, I'm gonna tell my high
fantasy story again in whatever medium, should I just avoid it?
And should I just world build first, and then in
a subsequent draft go back and write comedy?

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Yes? Yeah, Because Comedy comes from character. Yeah, comedy comes
from the people how they are interacting. Because again, go
back to that Dungeon and Dragons movie. Yeah, you know, honor.
Amongst these highly recommended I think it's on paramount plus,
it is a comedy through and through. I keep it
expecting you to say, on her Majesty's secret service. I'm

(45:13):
not gonna on her majesty secret Thieves. I'll take whatever
subtitle they'll ever give me if they make a sequel
to that movie. But I don't think they're ever gonna
make a sequel to that movie, which feels ridiculous because
I think it made a million million dollars. No, it
didn't do well. Oh really, No, I didn't do well.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Maybe just everyone we liked really we liked it.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
Yeah. Yeah. The reason why I'm so passionate about it
is because I feel like I feel like a lot
of people didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
And it was one of those where it was one
of those movies a couple of years ago when it
came out that literally everybody's whose taste I trust, was like,
you have to see this movie. And then I saw it.
I was like, oh god, you were all right? Yeah,
so everything in that movie The World is serious. You know,

(45:59):
it's about a whitch took over a castle. Again, there's
a prison, there's this, there's that, there's this, there's that. Right,
just on its tone, it is serious. And think about
that in our real world too, Like if you learn
all the ins and outs of the government of Lithuania,
there's nothing comedic about it. But maybe the people that
live in Lithuania are you know, a special kind you know.

(46:22):
I don't know. I've never been to Lithuania, so maybe
Lithuania is Maybe they're very serious people. I don't know.
If you're a listener in Lithuanian and you have a
guest house, let us know. We love to look. No,
let's go here Scotland. You look at the history of Scotland.
You know, pretty serious stuff. You talk to the people
of Scotland. Well, they're a delightful, funny people.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, they're very folk with delightful.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Access exactly exactly, you know, and that sort of inherently
creates comedy. Yeah, so no, it's all character based. It's
it's so. I will say that I do find that
most writers, and I'm guilty of it too, spend way
too much build time building their world and not enough

(47:05):
time building their characters. Fun. Fun. It is indulgent too,
it is, But like nobody, here's the secret of all media.
Doesn't matter what you're watching. Doesn't matter if you're watching TV,
watching a movie, reading the book, reading the comic book,
playing a video game. It doesn't matter what medium it is.

(47:29):
You're not watching that thing because the world is cool.
You're watching that thing because you love a character.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
And that that can be a problem when a franchise
or franchise a bull property becomes popular, because sometimes corporate
entities are like, oh, if we can tell any story
and we can set anything in the world of this
or the like, people like this planet, so we can

(47:59):
set everything on this planet.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
And you're like, that's not what I care about. I
want to I also want to. Yes, that is a
great point. Actually that is one hundred Ye. Just because
something is set on like Hawth doesn't make it Star
Wars because I want to hedge off the internet comments
that I can already hear because people will be like,
but I do love hobbitin, Yes, you do love hobbitin
you know what? You know what? You love hobbiton because

(48:22):
Bilbo and Frodo love it, and you love Bilbo and Frodo,
but you love it because you're seeing it through their POV.
We empathize humans, empathized with humans. We don't empathize with buildings.
I mean, but you're dead on like again, And you
could say that for every every franchise, Star Trek, Lord

(48:43):
of the Rings, all of them.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
And I'm not I'm not saying that I haven't liked
any kind of it's beIN off.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Look, we all have like little worlds, like I would
love to live in Metropolis and the world. Yeah, it
seems like an awesome city. I would love to live
in Astro City. It seems really cool. I would hate
to live on Corus in Star Wars. I hate to
live in Gotham, you know, oh god, Yeah, but like
the Corosson seems to yeah, oh my god, and correspond
it would like smog every just levels and the traffic Jesus.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I have a lot of infrastructure questions about coroissant
to be free.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, but that's the thing, Like we're always empathizing through
through characters, yeah, not things. And and that's the problem
is that you're exactly right, Like when you're looking at
it from like a bean counter level. You do think
about well, like well the one name Falcons in the
movies that automatically makes it Star Wars and you're like, yeah,
but if the person driving the money and Falcon is

(49:37):
a drip that I don't care. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
And that's where that's where we see like success and
failure in franchise, right is like Okay, cool, we have
a great world, but do we have something successful.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, it's a connect to and to go back to it,
like you're the thing about like think about fantasy right
and think about I I think the interesting way because
like whatever you think about the Witcher TV show, whether
you like it or don't like it, by all metrics,
is successful. It's a success. It has had multiple seasons,
and it has a spin off. It's a success. I

(50:11):
don't care what you think. Like you can love it,
you can hate it. It's a success. Yeah. Gerald, you
know who trims the hedges, Gerald Riveral GARYL GARYLD Harold.
Yeah he is not He's a serious carrot. He's not
funny at all. He does but he does. There you go.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
He has some quips, but like he's not funny, but
it's not because Henry Cavill couldn't deliver those lines.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Here's okay, so let's go back another fantasy thing, and
it is fantasy even though it's set in our world.
Xeno Warrior Princess, Oh for sure, high fantasy. Yeah, you know, nineties,
early two thousands, very successful show. I think I had
like ten seasons. I can't a lot of seasons. Queer icons,

(50:56):
you're like huge show. Right, still talked about the this
day everybody can do whatever that thing is, it's called
the Oulation.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah, and I'll say this an absolute crime that it
hasn't been brought back.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
We're rebooting everything. It has to be a rights issue, absolutely,
and like Lucy Lawless looks better than ever Lucy Lawless true.
Amazonia absolutely probably should have Playedhippolyta in The Wonder. She
should have at least had a cameo in Yea, because
that was the thing. Like I remember in the two thousands,
in the nineties when everybody was talking about Woner Room,
Everybody's like it should be Lucy. I mean, look at her. Yeah,

(51:26):
she could still play the bart I say, absolutely literal queen. Yeah,
Xena is a character, very serious, very warrior and they
gave her the jokey young sidekick, Gabrielle her girlfriend. Yes,
it is either Gabrielle or I think it's Gabrielle, but
I'll look it up. Yeah, but see, so like it's
it's inherent because also their opposites think about Captain Kirk

(51:49):
and Doctor McCoy. Kirk is serious, Spot is serious. Doctor
McCoy is always like, im a, I'm a I'm a doctor,
not a bricklayer. Jim. Well, we we brought up Conan
the Barbarian earlier. Yeah, exactly, SUBATAI in the movie is his.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Part of that is inherent because I don't know if
at the time Arnold could have delivered a joke in
a satisfactory but.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
That movie is funny. Even in the books Conan, most stories,
Conan meets a jokey character. Yeah, because you need the opposite,
you have to have it. It's the problem becomes when
every like if every character in the Fellowship was a jokester. Yeah,
then it doesn't work. Yeah, you know, and I and
I think that's the wrong lesson that people have taken

(52:35):
from Guardians the Galley. I agree, Yeah, because even if
you look at Guardians of the galaxy. There are serious
characters in Guardian's Galaxy. Like Drax is a serious character.
He wants to he wants to get revenge on his family.
The Mora is a more serious character. Nebula is a
serious very.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Serious, which doesn't mean that they don't ever do anything fun.
And I think that's where I think again an eye
lay this at the feet of John Hughes. But I
think this is where in modern storytelling we'll act depth
in characters. Where it's like a character.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Can only be one thing, and like that's also a
thing of human beings.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
That's also a thing of the Internet culture. Human beings
aren't like that. So why would elves, hobbits, fairies, wizards
be like that?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Oh, I want to throw this out, like I I
it drives me mad when mad dramatic. I get very
mad about this when fans are always like when fans
always expect characters to act logical. Have you lived a life?
Have you seen any human ever? Have you never cried

(53:33):
yourself to sleep or not? Here's here's the stupid question,
because I'm going to say this too. We all we
all love our family members, our brothers, sisters, or mothers
or you know, fathers, uncles. Y. Yeah, you cannot tell
me there has not been a moment in your life
where a family member has not said something that utterly
destroyed you. Yeah. Yes, yes, it's happened to every human
being in all of existence, and that person loves you. Yeah.

(53:57):
But why are they acting so illogical? Because humans do
and our brains are squishy, weird things, so when with
electrons running through them, Yeah, but fans get like stuck
on this thing where they're like, but of course they're
logically supposed to figure it out. It's like, no, they're messy,
sticky humans, just like us. Yeah. And that's the trick
to writing good vulcans is when are they not logical?

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
You know, and so like yeah, so like, uh yeah,
how does this relate to fantasy? Don't you brought this up? So?

Speaker 1 (54:24):
So okay, I think I think we can wrap this up.
I think it's signed for the final ask Jason, final ass.
We started by is it a new segment?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Are we gonna put this in there?

Speaker 1 (54:31):
That's That's what I've been doing on these last couple episodes,
but sort of reiterating our theme. So I'm asking you
in Jason.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
I'm gonna write that down the final ask by the way, uh,
I'm gonna throw this out that everybody again, geekisher Lesson
at gmail dot com. I will send you a price pack.
We need a sound effect for a new segment. So
we need a sound effect for what have I what
have we learned today? Which is the end segment now,
and we need a sound effect for the final ask.

(54:59):
I want I want to say, oh, we be careful.
We don't want to get Demond size.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
So the final ast, Jason, our comedy and fantasy inherently opposite.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
No, no, because we've proven that you can have a
comedy fantasy movie and it can totally work, absolutely, But
then you can also go too far and you can
make something like Krawl. Go look up that movie. You
know what, if you haven't watched Krawl, enjoy with your
toxicit of choice.

Speaker 1 (55:29):
Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Oh man, that movie Crawl Baby. We did it.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
We explored the depths of the Witcher, We plumbed the
questions of fantasy, high fantasy, and comedic trapping. So I
want to tell you a little bit about a recommended reading.
You go over to geek hash listen dot com, SATs
recommended reading. We give you some things that we talked
about this episode so you can continue this journey. We're
gonna have a lot of our standard Tolkien recommendations that

(55:56):
you've seen in the past if you've come to visit
us over there during so up our Lord of the
Rings segments. But I'm also going to have all of
the Witcher stuff that I can find for you.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
I'm going to have some complete collections.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
I'm gonna have some individual collections across multiple mediums. We're
gonna have some D and D stuff for you to
check out. We're gonna have some conan.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
For you to check out, so view.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
If you liked anything that we referenced in this episode,
you can find.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
All of this. Nine Witcher novels and fifteen short stories.
Yes I said that at the beginning. I'm sorry, I
didn't know the number.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
And there's comic book series, so however you want to
read comic.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
We can get you some. We can get you some
Witcher stories.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
So go Geekisrelsen dot com slash recommended reading and broaden
your reading, broaden your your fantasy horizons. Now it is
time for the honorall Jason. Would you be so kindest
to tell me what that is.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
That's where if you go over to Apple podcast and
you leave us a five star review, we'll read your
review on the podcast for helping us out with the
Apple algorithm. And if you're an international listener, you got
to email it to us at Team gi hitch Lesson
at gmail dot com. And if you do that once,
you give us a sound effect for the final ask
as well. Yeah, weston your price back, even if you
live in Europe. I'll do it. Sure, it'll be expensive,
might not get to you for three months, but I'll

(57:04):
do it.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Our review today comes from night Shade three six ' five,
who says, peace of mind. This show has been a
life saver. I am a male escort and then brackets
they put mailman. That's very funny for two different reasons.
I'm also pretty sure that you're a patron and I
know who you are, and I am in my truck
and walking six hours a day.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I listened to you while I'm out.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I started from episode one and now I've caught up
completely in just a few months, currently on my second past.
Bless you for wanting to listen to us through twice.
I also come home and share all the info I've
learned with my son, who's as into comics as I am.
He's currently reading The Walking Dead and The Bleach manga Wow,
two opposite ends of the spectrum. A few ideas though
Squirrel Girl, a list of weapon X character the impact

(57:47):
of gender and race changes I e. Miles Morales, Robbie
Reyes Rewe, Williams, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
It is.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
It was shown negatively initially but has produced some of
my favorite characters.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Ooh, that is a good topic and that is a
big time. We'd have to bring in a We definitely need.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Some guests that I really like that.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
Miles is a very successful idea. That. Yeah, so is Laura.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
So night Shade three six five. Thank you so much
for your review today, and I welcome you into the
teachers Lounge. And Jason is going to queue up replies. Yeah, well,
God bless please keep telling people you're a male escort,
especially not spelled out.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
It's so freaking funny. Yeah, that's it. How's it spelled
m A? I l because he's a mailman. That's funny.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Yeah, you know, it's really funny.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
I'm yes exactly, Jason.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
If people want to find more geek history lesson on
social media? Where is the best place for them? Oh?

Speaker 2 (58:47):
I'm not good for this one. Okay, help me out
with this. Actually, are we at geeksh lesson on Blue Sky?
Yes we are, okay. Are we at geekish lesson on Threats?
Yes we are. Are we at geekstrals on Instagram? Yes
we are? Okay, then that's very easy. And then also
on Facebook dot com slash gikish loss Yes we are cool. Okay. Ah,
so it was the evil one that we could ease.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yeah. Yeah, So every everywhere that you want to be,
we are Aggie kissers. Jason, where is the best place
that people can find you on social media?

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I've been on Blue Sky a lot. Jason Inman at
Blue dot blue sky Bsky, John and j w I
n on threads that's the best place to find me.
And on Instagram? Ashley, where can they find you on
the Instagram threads and yours is very easy? You can
find me everywhere at Ashley v. Robinson.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
And again you can find our continuing section thirty one
commentary over at Patreon dot com slash Jawa. Now it
is time for what have we learned today?

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Ashley? What have we learned today. I'm so glad that
you asked me. I'm curious because I don't know. I
forgot everything. You just told me.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Everything we just talked about. When a humble Bard Grace
the ride Along garyl Ta Rivia Along came this song.
We basically learned that toss the Coin to your Witcher
is what a the greatest things that has come out
of modern science fiction and fantasy. We've learned that comedy
and fantasy are not antithetical to each other. We've learned
that Jason thinks Dungeons and Dragons is most perfect in

(01:00:11):
its film form, and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
We've learned that Game of Thrones is funnier than you
think it is. Hmm. That's what we've learned today. So
some would say, so that's our epic tale. Our champion prevailed,
defeated the villain. Now pull home, some al Tosco coined
to your witcher, baby, all right, thank you so much
for listening to geekesher lesson. I'm Jason Inman, I'm Ashally

(01:00:35):
Victoria Robinson. Uh uh, witcher's the title right? Yeah? Whatitcher? Ashley?
Will you please close out this podcast and get yourself
some mail? Oh Valley of Plenty, oh, Valley of Plan
I try to harmonize it. Yeah, it's a lot of okay.
A class is not dismissed

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
In the

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Does Comedy Work in Fantasy? - Toss a Coin to Your Witcher

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Does Comedy Work in Fantasy? - Toss a Coin to Your Witcher