Frankenstein MEGA EPISODE (Frankenstein in Pop Culture, DC Comics' Frankenstein)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, super friends, it is Ashley Victoria Robinson here on
the precipice of Spooky Season this October. Professor Jason is
interning with a very certain special doctor at you Hop
right now, and we know that this month is leading
up to a pretty cool theatrical release. If you've stuck

(00:21):
around here over the years, we have released several episodes
on Frankenstein. You know what an important piece of writing
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein is to me personally. And if you
didn't know now, I'm here to tell you. Guillermo del
Toro is releasing on Netflix his interpretation of Frankenstein on
November seventh, right after Halloween. So in anticipation and leading

(00:43):
up to that, we are kicking off this official GHL
Spooky Season with a Frankenstein mega episode. Looking back at
some of the discussions of the past, Professor Jason and
I have had about Victor, the Creature, the Bride and
bringing you some exciting tie in episodes in the future.
So turned down the lights, bring up some candles, set

(01:05):
the right vibe, and take it away. Jason and Ashley
here on this podcast, we rely a lot on our

(01:26):
ability to speak and say words and for.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
People to be able to hear our words.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
So I have to ask you, Jason, as we're diving
in in your mind, does Frankenstein's creature speak and is
he articulate or does he not speak?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Divisive question? I think is this divisive?

Speaker 1 (01:43):
I think it tells me a lot about where you
met this character and what your expectations are about whether
or not you think he speaks.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
I didn't know that people had strong opinions about whether
mister Stein spoke or not.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
He did. It was actually frank in time.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
So for me, he's green, his big old bolts at
his neck, and in honor of the late great Phil Hartman,
he just always says fire. That's all he says. You
don't know what I'm talking about. Go google Sarah Lives
Frankenstein one of the greatest comedy characters of all time. Uh,

(02:22):
that's what that's my Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Can you can you give me that line?

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Reading one more time?

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Fire? And with that, I think it's time to say
hello and welcome to geek history last right the we
are we're going.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Okay, I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm Jason, Fire about it, and welcome to geek Kschy Lesson,
as actually said, this is the podcast where we talk
about one thing, one character, one construct, one book in
pop culture.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Because I'm a TV writer from the Midwest and she
is a comb book writer from the Great White North's
cannon call the Reway North? Is that an ef I
didn't know if that was Alaska Canada.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
I just want to make sure I didn't know Alaska
was called that at all.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's kinda is maybe the Great Alaska White we call it? Okay, well,
you're from the Gray White North here, and today we
are talking about Frankenstein. We are talking about Frankenstein. Frankenstein
across the pop cultures, all the Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Many Frankenstein, Yes, a lot of Mary Shelley Frankenstein's, but many, several,
many different Frankenstein.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, because we're going to bring that up. Because, yeah, Frankenstein,
whether or not he is articulate, whether or not he
can talk, changes across the lexicon.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, there's one correct version and then there's a bunch
of wrong version. There. I fall on the boberry of this.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
All my frank is segin tastes.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Berry speak are hot and they are a flame, which
means that the creature would be frightened.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, that's interesting because he's he's dead, skin cold, and
he's afraid of fire.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, because he can't fight it. Yeah,
went against fire again.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I need an answer to this question. Where do you
fall on the Booberry of it all? It's Booberry part
of the country.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
We did not have those cereals growing ups. I've never
had any, and I have no thoughts in no relation.
You know, I saw I think Booberry is the.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
One of the witch.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
Is the cousin of Frankenstein. I thought it was Frankenberry Ferry.
Oh god, yeah, Booberry is.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Let's move on. I got this all wrong. I put
myself out there as a serial expert, and I got
it completely wrong. It's good thing. This is the serial
history last Man. The Serial Monsters would be a great episode.
So if you all wanted to cuss that, Matt, what
are we on threads history? Lastson?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Thank you so much. We're recording this late at night. Everyone.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Welcome to the kickoff of GHL Spooks season four, which
might We had a bunch of great episodes last year
Van hell Sene and and Empires Vampires, and we did.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Two Van helsings did we watched the two thousand and
fourth classic.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Because you all demanded it, So go back and listen
to that train wreck of a podcast. And uh, you
know this this year we might have I can't right now.
So this is going to be very interesting. This might
also be scary. We might have a very large spooky season. Gee,
Kisser Lasson's talking about all kinds like we have let's say,
like we have were wolves.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
In the hopper.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It's done.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Yeah, have I read it?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
No, we might have another Frankenstein, because there's more than
one Frankenstein in pop culture and we might have some
other ones, or this might be the only one. Why
is that because my current work schedule, we're we're writing
on the television show I'm working on is Crazy.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, and if you want to hear more about that,
you know, go check out the patreon. Yeah, the patreon.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
We have a special episode about that talk so podcast.
So I'm saying this to future Jason and Ashley. This
might be the cake off of a grand spooky season.
Or this might be the only spooky episode to hear on.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah TVD or you know what, we might be doing
spooky season in a not traditionally spooky season month.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
We'll see.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
It might be around American Thanksgiving.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
We we shall see. Is this requested by anybody?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
The heck was not good?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Absolutely not. But why don't we, Why don't we roll
right into the ten cent origin? And Jason, would you
be so kind as to introduce us to what that means?

Speaker 2 (05:59):
That is where Ash is going to give you the
basic who's its or wats it's of Frankenstein in case
you're ever trapped in a windmill and the villagers are
after you with pitchforks and fire, and they're like, tell
us about Jeff's Frankenstein exactly so.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Frankenstein or the Modern Prometheus is an eighteen eighteen science
fiction horror novel. It's the book that invented the science
fiction genre. Brian Aldus, a scholar, has argued for regarding
it as the first true science fiction story in contrast
of previous stories with fantastical elements resembling those in later
science fiction, and all the states it is science fiction

(06:34):
because the central character quote makes a deliberate decision end quote,
end quote turns the modern experiments in the laboratory end
quote to achieve fantastic results. So academically, this is considered
the first science fiction book.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I considered this to be the first science fiction book.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
You and I frequently argue about whether or not that's true.
Written by Mary Shelley Mary Wolfsoncraft Shelley at the age
of eighteen. If you've never looked at the original manuscript
for Mary Shelley's Frankens, I could find it online.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
It's been scanned.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
There are very few edits. What you read today is
like the first and a half draft. So if you
ever want to feel bad about your input at your age,
this is the book that will make you feel that way.
The first edition was published on January first, eighteen eighteen, anonymously,
when she was twenty years old. It tells the story
of Victor Frankenstein, a young scientist who creates a sapient

(07:28):
creature in an unorthodox scientific experiment, and the name Frankenstein
refers to the protagonist scientists rather than the creature he creates,
and that was not a common mistake before the nineteen
thirty one Universal Monster movie, when everyone started calling the
creature Frankenstein and I am that jerk. I will die

(07:49):
on that hill. His name is the creature. Frankenstein has
been adapted into books, comics, plays, television, movies, and more
in the two hundred and five two hundred and six
years since its original public location. Actors who have portrayed
the creature in live action include Boris Karloff, who also
very famously played Dracula, Lawn Cheney Junior, Fred Gwynn in

(08:10):
The Munsters, Bela Lagosi who also also played Dracula, Peter
Boyle and Young Frankenstein, and Christopher Lee who also also
also played Dracula, Robert de Niro, Benedict Cumberbatch and Moore
and that and Phil Hartman and Phil Hartman. I'm sorry
and beloved, venerated Phil Hartman, Phil Hartman, and that's your

(08:33):
tents and origin on Frankenstein. Frankenstein, the creature or well
the property is called the.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Creature instead of the monster. I've always heard him called
the monster.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
So if you read the book, relax, he is he's
referred to. I'm not even wearing my glasses today. He's
referred to as the creature. He is not referred to
as a monster again until the nineteen thirty one Universal
Monster movies.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
So, in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
And I know we're going to talk about this later
on this episode. He's not a monster, so I the
people that chase him are just Victor for being a
massive But that's the.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Real lesson of the book. Frankenstein. The monster is yeah,
is not the monster, so I will be referring to
him as the creature, just like the real world. It's
that science fiction that science fact.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah, yeah, exactly how science fiction becomes science fact. Go
find that old episode in our feed what we had.
We did a panel at maybe an Elli Comic Con
called how to put science fiction based on science facts?
You were making a joke. No, it's a real episode, don't.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
We've done five over five hundred piso. Okay, wow, I
thought you were making a joke.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
No I was. I was. Are we ready to get
into this lesson about the preachure in the history on
one the creature of the monster on the on the
property Franko's sign mister frank Instein frank and sign frank
lbam h. So we're going to start out talking about
the original text before we move into adaptations.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
So hold on to your butts.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
And again, because I'm a literary snob, I'm going to
be referring to Victor Frankenstein as Victor and the creature
as the creature Jason. Yes, have you ever read Frankenstein?
Because I read Frankenstein when I was in Grade ten because.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
In Canadian English literature.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
That was what we studied that year, and I fell
in love with it immediately, and it remains to this
day one of my all time favorite books. So have
you have you ever read Frankenstein? Yes, I've read it
in I read in high school.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Mm hmm, and I think I read ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
It holds up.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's a really It's one of those classical books that
I think, despite its word choice, is feels very contemporary.
I think it reads very modern.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, there are there are some words in some phrases
where you scratch your head. But yes, I think you
can definitely read it and you don't have to rearrange
your brain too much.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yes, because and correct me if I'm wrong. It's all
from the perspective of a capon.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
Who am I right? Again? Is a journal?

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Right?

Speaker 1 (11:03):
So it starts, yeah, as the pov of Captain Walton.
So that's so funny. So but Captain Walton. It jumps
different point of views throughout, But Captain Walton kind of
like Shadow and Bone or a song of ice and fire.
His chapter's bookend it because he's on this Arctic expedition

(11:23):
trying to get to the North Pole.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
And I meant to say that like a let of
lot of books at that time, that was like a
lot of the Sherlock Holmes books. Do that too.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
You're reading the journal.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Of somebody that is telling you the story exactly that.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
So Walton is leading a scientific expedition to the North Pole.
And when they get to the Arctic, Key and his
crew come across as a giant monster on a dog slid.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know exactly what you'd expect to find at the North.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Bowl, Jason, if you were going to the ray white
North and you came across such a being, what would
your assumption be?

Speaker 2 (11:54):
YETI when to go polar Bear, Santa Claus. I need
to clarify. Do we are we calling the North Pole
the Great White North? Well, it's in the gray White Norse. Okay,
it is one of the I've learned that today we're
calling Alaska the Great White Norse.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
No one was ever called Alaska the Great White Norse.
I'm calling it the White, true North, strong and fierce.
That is Canada.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
What monster would I expect to see.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Well, if you saw this great creature lumbering out of
the mists and it was eighteen eighteen, what would you
think it was? Santa Claus or Odin?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
A good one?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Odin?

Speaker 2 (12:23):
You know, is mighty be slipnoir pulling through the snow. Okay,
I'll give that to you.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Soon after this encounter, the Captain saves the life of
an almost dead Victor Frankenstein, a human man, who reveals
that he was in pursuit of the giant man monster
and begins his tale of woe. So this is where,
even though it is the Captain's journal, it switches to
Victor's POV telling you the story. Victor is a man

(12:49):
of privilege, born into a rich family from Geneva, Switzerland,
and he was always interested in how the world works.
He was a smart kid who studied alchemy and sciences
and magic. Now Jason Alchemy was my favorite. Eareprit too? Yes?

Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yes, exactly?

Speaker 1 (13:05):
Does does he not sound like if he'd been a
contemporary person, that Victor Frankenstein might have been a writer,
someone who's into alchemy and science and magic.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Doesn't he just sound like he would have been a writer? No,
he sounds like he's somebody that would buy a social
media website and say, hey, I should rename it X.
That's cool, stop it.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
That's what someone with daddy issues does, and of an
inferiority complex and hair plugs Frankenstein State. At the age
of five, Victor's family adopted a wealthy Italian girl named
Elizabeth Levenza, who Victor would eventually marry. Bride of Frankenstein
fans movie should be gleeful to hear Elizabeth's name mentioned

(13:43):
right now. Right before Victor takes off for university in Germany,
his mother dies of scarlet fever.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Oh no, so sad, And in.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Order to avoid dealing with his grief because this is
the nineteenth century and he's a man, Victor doubles down
on science and begins studying.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Chemistry and now of me, so it doesn't have to feel.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Anything, he'll look at the inside of his body. This
leads him to construct a human from corpses, you know,
as one does when deep in their grief, and he
winds up with a giant human person who's almost eight
feet tall and disproportionately wide, with yellow eyes and yellow skin.
If you have yellow eyes and yellow skin, you have
liver problems.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I'm just gonna say disease. I'm just gonna say something
to Victor right now that if your human turns out
to be better heelp dot com, if your human tends
turns out to be eight foot tall, I think you
have too many pieces to Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he
took one too many legs.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
We don't many torsos stacked on top of each other.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
We know they don't need two thighs on top of
three knees on top of five shins. Well, but but well,
I guess, but why am not? That is part of
the science, You know what? Maybe Victor's right.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
When he brings the creature to life, Victor is so
repulsed by his giant, naked yellow man that he runs
away from it. He finds his best friend, and he says,
come to see the creature with me. But when they return, Jason,
would you believe it? No one's there, Oh, no one's there.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Not a soul sounds no big man, sounds like you're
telling me a spooky story in spooky s He's right now.
Vibes very vibes, Jason.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
If you're reanimated corpse ran away, what would your reaction
be oh darn, that's pretty much what Victor does. So
Victor gets so stressed out he falls ill for four months.
Trade's sick and to basically get unsick.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
He's like, I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
But then his daddy writes him a letter and he's like,
your brother was murdered. And he's like, I'm not sick anymore.
I gotta come home. So Victor is Geneva, Thank you,
Jeeva Switzerland. Victor is unable to prove the creature's guilt
when he goes to investigate the murder of his brother.
But he knows that the creature killed his brother. So

(15:54):
what does he do, Jason? He runs away again? How
does he know?

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Do you remember how he knows that the creature did it?

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Well, he just assumes the creature did it because the
creature probably wants make revenge on him for bringing him
to life.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
So he runs away again.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
He runs all the way to the top of a mountain.
He goes on a walk about through the French Alps. Jason,
and I would love to do this if I can
just add that, And while enjoying his hiking holiday, the
creature finds him and he confronts Victor, and he tells
them his story, and then the narrative flips again to
share the creature's point of view and explain what he's
been up to in the six months that he's been

(16:32):
alive or relive.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
He says, call me Ishmael. I joined a boat and
I hunted a whale with a man.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Oh my god, spoilers, they have spoiler rot He actually
did not murder anybody, and he is not awful. Jason,
if you were a reanimated corpse conglomerate of a bunch
of individuals, what would you spend your time doing?

Speaker 2 (16:50):
You're asking me a lot of questions about how I
feel about reanimated corpses, and I don't know if I
appreciate this.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Frank, it'side episode. Are you?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Are you leveling accusations during this podcast right now? Absolutely
not Ale have Victor, Franks. I think it's perfectly okay
to have six shins in a closet rotting there. I
think that's perfectly open.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
But if that were you, what would you spend your
time doing? What do you think he's been doing for
these six months?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
I would go to Monaco and play in a poker tournament.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
He's been learning how to read and speak quick study,
So learning how to read, that's what the creature has
been spending his time doing.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
And listeners.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
If you can read, if you have taught yourself how
to read while running over the Alps, you can actually
come and read with us right now over on patreon
dot com slash jawin, where along with our super friends,
we are running a spooky season book club. We're reading
Hounds of the Baskerville Sherlock Holmes. Well, we're gonna finish it.

(17:45):
We're gonna have a live chat at the end of October.
We've been having an amazing time over there. We also
have a bunch of extra pods. We have more Frankentein
talk coming up on Geek History lesson Extra. If you
like the sound of my voice, you're gonna love me
and diego. You should stay doing Talking Titan.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
You should say it's going to be We're going to
rank the Universal Monster movies. Yes, that's what we do
this week. So if you want to hear that episode,
go over to patreon dot com slash Gala.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
But only if you can read it. Add free episodes,
all kinds of goodies. But I will say if you're
reanimated corpse. You're welcome to Yeah sure, Patreon dot com,
slash Jo, especially if you play poker and Monica.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
And yeah, if you played Poker and Monica, you're extra welcome.
I will I will say this.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
But back to Frank's Sein, back to the creature. He
can read now, he can read, he can write, he
can dance, he can sing, I.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Can talk, I can sing.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Uh. This was the moment that I fell in love
with the creature as a character.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Was his love for reading. I like that.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Really, that really hit my little key car Helve with
the sound read exactly because they are in the Alps,
of course, I mean it's the French Alps. It's a
completely different.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Set of Alps. But yeah uh.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
He lived remotely as he educated himself and developed a
personality like this exactly, very modern, very demure, very cute. See.
He even helped out of farming fi family who lived nearby.
He reclaims Rain. He like did chores for them when
they were sleeping free range. Yeah, I brought them a goose.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
He kept being like father, I instld solar panels and
victors like you have a monster exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
However, when he saw his reflection for the first time
he realized how frightening he was, and he started to
conduct all this business at night, and he stayed in hiding.
The father of the family eventually saw him and shot
the creature in the shoulder, and the creature swore revenge
on all of humanity as a result. Jesus he did
believe that, and harbored this belief that Victor, his father

(19:36):
as he saw him, would be his saving grace, and
so he tracked Victor down on this hiking holiday uh
to demand that Victor build him a wife so that
he could have a family of his own. And his
plan was to live in isolation in South Africa. Okay,
I'm assuming that. I'm assuming that South Africa was chosen
by Mary Shelley because it was a popular exotical cow

(19:58):
for because he lives in England as an English colony.
Thus it probably seemed more accessible but foreign at the time.
But it does strike me as a wild choice reading this,
that he's like, and then I'm gonna go to South Africa.
I'd live happily ever after.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think it's because if you think about it, when
you're looking at the north is south in the same
plain to England. South Africa is almost directly south and it's.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
About as far away as you can get from England
and still again.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
An English colony. But also, if you think about it,
although I think he would hop on a ship. Yeah,
he could walk there, it would take him a long time, Yeah,
I could. I presume the plan was to take a show.
But this guy's walking around the alps and stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, he's eight feet tall. Can you imagine his stride?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, he could. He could kick it down there pretty fast. Yeah, amazing, amazing.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
The creature warns Victor that if he refuses to build
in my wife, he'll kill his entire family and I'll
off their friends.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Mister Frank Winstein, you're throwing out the same threats. I mean,
I don't know how many more times you can threat
to kill me, you know, That's what I'm saying. You've
threat to kill me like three times now. If you
don't do this, I'm gonna kill you.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Kill this.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'm gonna kill you. You don't do this, I'm gonna
kill you. Let me go ahead and do it. He
abandoned him, so I think the creature's in the right.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Victor agrees, He's like, uh, sure, I'll build Joe wife,
but he doesn't want to build it in Geneva. He
doesn't want to build a wife anywhere near his family.
He wants to go somewhere remote and desolate and viby
and Gothic. So where do you think he goes, Jason Vage. No,
he goes to Scotland. Scott the greatest country in the world.

(21:27):
He's like, we have to hop on a ship and
cross the English Channel.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
To go to Scotland. Exactly, Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
So he goes there to build the Monster Lady. So
the creature stalks him there to spy on his work
because he's not supposed to be with Frankenstein. Fun fact,
if you go to Edinburgh to this day, there is
a very famous bar that is all Frankenstein themed in
inspiration from the story. Cool I went there and had
a cranberry jeez, because I don't drink alcohol. The Lady

(21:57):
creature is built on Orkney Island and Vic worries himself
sick the entire time, to the point where he eventually
rips her limb from limb before she can come to
life because he's so horrified. He doesn't want two creatures
to be out in the world. Then the creature threatens
Victor for destroying his only chance at happiness, and Victor
collects his tools of his trade. Before he does what

(22:18):
Jason runs away cattle again. This is like the sixth
time Victor has just run away.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Wait, come on, you've got an eight foot monster with
seventeen shins coming after you.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
I'd run too. Well. Do you think, Jason, that's because
Mary Shelley ran away from her problems or do you
think Percy Biss, her husband ran away from all of
his problems. Who do you think inspired all of this running?
I actually think this.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Is good writing. I think if you saw a holy again,
think about it.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
This.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
I have no way to confirm this, but it would
be my guess that this could be considered the very
first zombie in all of fiction.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I think probably out because the word zombie comes from
a specific cultural reference. But I think as we think
of pop culture zombies, I think possibly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
But think about this guy, like is an unholy creature
that came to life, but this is Victor's third or
fourth encounter with him. He also built him. Yeah, but
you also have to think about how also I'm team
blamed Victor Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
No, I think I think you have to.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think that's what makes this ansel Victor frank I
think that's what makes this narrative so compelling, is because
I don't think either side is right. Uh huh. I
think Victor is right and wrong. I think the creature
is right and wrong. And I also think you have
to very sci fi. You have to deal with Victor's
deep religious background that he would have.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Had at this absolutely have been Catholic, and this.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
Thing would have been like again an unholy god like
creature monster thing, you know, and also like you know,
to get a little bit ahead. The Kenneth Branna version
of this story my favorite film, which is pretty which
is pretty good for Robert Nirol.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
The creature, Yeah, it was weird. Choice. Fun fact they made.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
A pinball machine of that.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
It is weird. And when you make certain shots that
he goes, I am it's not my favorite. Pipot homes
also in it. Yeah, you know, it's it's an interesting
thing about just like how against God this would this
thing would feel like it's literally imagine your worst mistake
you could have ever made, getting up and constantly reminding

(24:29):
you that Hey, you made me, You made me dummy,
you made me.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I mean we're people on the internet. We're confronted with
it every day.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
But I think about that, like that is what it is.
I do think you make a really intelligent observation as
well about the underlying religious narrative that would have been
not only part of like Mary Shelley's world, but the
universe of these characters in But a big no no,
whether your religious or not, your modern or ancient, is murder.
And the creatures about to commit us first murder.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
I'll tell you about it.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Right after this, we are back on geek History of
Happy Spooky season. We're talking about Frankenstein. Victor Frankenstein just
killed Missus, the creature.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Missus, the creature Missus, bride of frank Enstein.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
The creature is so mad that he kills Victor's best
friend back. So he said, you killed my wife, I'll
kill your best friend. And Victor overreacts so hard. He
has a mental breakdown, and because it's the nineteenth century,
he's thrown in prison.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
He cries so hard. They said, just put him in jail.
They're like, oh, he's mentally unstable. Put him in jail.
The mentally instable ebon.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah yeah, jah, yeah, yeah, he's crying a lot.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Sounds like modern day.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
Yeah yeah. His father gets him out, of course, because
he's a rich noble man, and he goes back to
hang out with his dad and his sister slash love
interests Elizabeth in Geneva. In Geneva, Victor and Elizabeth get married,
and then Jason.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Who should appear?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Uh hm, I can't let me think about that.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Let me say the scene for you.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Sure, it's their wedding night. Okay, yeah, it's real sexy.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
They have to have their you know, nineteenth century lingerie,
goes down to their toes. Victor's pulling out his guns
and his knives and he's leaving them near the windows,
and it's like, Elizabeth, I'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah, and then who should appear? He's completely okay, let
me so, they're both completely vulnerable. They're in a state
of undress.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
It would be like the perfect time for some enemy
of theirs to attack. I'm gonna say, Santa.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Claus ooh so close, so close. It's the creature. I
didn't see that one coming. Yeah yeah, yeah. Victor thinks
this might have happened, so to be fair, before they
start kissing, he is like, I'm gonna go do a
tour and see, and then he does, of course find
the creature.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
And creatures like you continue, please, well you don't have
to stop on my ak.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Which is which is funny because well Victor has been
on his walk about. The creature got into their bedroom
and strangled Elizabeth and killed her. And then finds Victor
and is like, hi, Dad killed your wife. You killed
my wife. I killed your wife. Back they chase each
other around Europe to a bunch of fun locations. I
like to imagine that Italy.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Now they make it all the way to Russia.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
When he was going to walk to South Africa, he
was going to walk to South Africa, and then that's
where they start on the journey to the Arctic is
from Russia. Captain Walton, you remember him. He was the
narrator of the earliest chapter. He comes back into the
mix and he kind of takes the closing narrative at
the end of the book where Victor dies telling his

(27:40):
story to the captain, and he asked him to swear
to kill the creature should he come across at Jason,
your Captain Walton, you're freezing to death slowly in the Arctic.
Would you honor this dying man's wish. Absolutely, I'd build
a fire and head south real quick.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, He's like, kill him. And then Vic frank Sin says,
once you've killed him, quote seek happiness and tranquility and
avoid ambition.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Don't tell me what to do.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
And I've always thought that was really interesting, don't you
dare tell me what to do? Because Mary Shelley was
a deeply ambitious person. The creature then enters into the
closing pages. He admits to his crimes. He's like, yeah,
I strangled Elizabeth, what of it? But he admits to
Captain Walton that his deeds have made him miserable, and
he promises to take his own life on the Arctic ice.
He hops back on his sledge and he leaves forever

(28:31):
and that those are the events of Mary Shelley's frank
Si That is the original Frankenstein story.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Well, that's another reason why it's so brilliant, because again,
at the end, the creature becomes so human because the
creature mourns the death of their father.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yes, he's racked, and he's racked by all the pain
caused dead with all the pain, like.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
It just goes back to that universal again, the all
the best stories of Universal because again we're all about daddy.
We all have moms and dad and brothers and sisters,
and even though all this pain that they had caused
each other, his passing still brings him pain. And then also, yeah,
he writes off into the sunset. We don't see him
die or anything. I actually hope he doesn't die. So
you know, it's led to us for the ability to

(29:15):
have Frankenstein lots of other stories after this big event.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
I also appreciate that the conclusion is that causing pain
to the people who cause you pain is not the answer,
like revenge.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Is not the answer.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Yeah. Yeah, for a horror book, it's very moral, and
I think that's why it also lends into the science
fiction because science fiction is very like morals heavy.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
So we talked about the book.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
Shall we talk about frank Stein in larger pop culture?

Speaker 2 (29:42):
That's the title of the episodes, So we should exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
So I found a list of one hundred and forty
five movies involving Frankenstein or or Frankenstein's creature. The first
known adaptation came during what Jason either guess what era
of film or what year? I mean silent movies. Silent
movies nineteen ten. The movie Frankenstein was made by Edison Studios.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
You catch citizen well.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
You can find most of this on YouTube. It's fairly unwatchable.
Put a nicolin here. I watched the Frankenstein movie in Nickelodeon.
It's it's sort of worth watching as a cultural oddity,
but like it doesn't function as a film. As you
may from nineteen ten, you may have been able to
deduce the universal monster movies were birthed in the nineteen thirties.

(30:28):
What was the first movie Frankenstein nineteen thirty one. That
is what gave us the big box head, the bolt.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
The green Ah.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, it's the movie that ruined all of our perception
of that story. The Bride of Frankenstein followed it up
in nineteen thirty five, which is another classic, even though
per the book, the Bride never lives in the Kenneth
Braun a film version, they speed up the death of
Elizabeth and Elizabeth gets reincarnated as the Bride of Frankenstein.

(31:00):
Hell about a partner exactly one one of her better
Roles in my opinion, and then brutally murdered, of course
to fire Lop. We've referenced that movie quite a bit,
which is, by the way, better than.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
You would think. I think it's the best Frand Signe movie.
I need to figure out who directed the movie.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Son of Frankenstein follows it up in nineteen thirty five,
The Son of Frankenston hold On, hold On, the Ghost
of frankenstegin nineteen forty two, frank Ghost of Frankens Frankenstein
meets the Wolfman nineteen forty three, the House of frankets
Segin in nineteen forty four. He also appears in the
House of Dracula in nineteen forty five, and then Frankensigin's
universal monster movie run ends with Abbin and Costello meet

(31:35):
Frankenstegin in nineteen forty eight, which is also a great
frequent movie. I didn't know that Kenneth Brown directed that
Frank Snein movie.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Oh, I think I did know that ninety four it's
called this fecial chitles Mar Frankenzin Ashley. I don't mean
to jump ahead, but how dare I don't know where
this comes in lexicon.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
But I would be remiss if we did not talk about.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Frankenstein, meaning two of the greatest monster hunters that have
ever Abbing Castelle, I literally just brought it up. Frankenstrine
said it.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
Oh, I'm sorry, did you? Yes, I said, and frankens
Sin's run with the Universe sal Monsters ends with Abba
and Costello mean Frankenstein nineteen forty eight.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I'm sorry I didn't hear you out.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
And then I said, it's a great movie.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
It is a great movie, and we are awesome.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yes, if you are not familiar with Abbot Noscello, do
yourself a favor and get familiar.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
You are because if you ever heard the thing who's
on first, they are the guys that created that.

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yes, Laurel and HARDI are fuddier though, and I will.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Know on that bridge.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Jason, why do you think the universal monster movies has
such sticking power? Why do you think it even overrides.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
The book character because the visuals? You think the visuals
is so strong When we think about Frankenstein, the image
of Frankenstein, it is the universal Frankenstein is even though
the movies in black and white. Yeah, we think of
green bolts and the hair. We think of that, We
think of that Dracula in the suit. You think of
the Mummy. I guess mummy is a mummy. But uh,

(33:01):
the wolf Man, the wolf Man. It's because the designs
are iconic. It's it's it's it's exactly the same reason
why we have a hard time getting Superman away from
his trunks, because Superman wearing trunks is such an iconic image.
It's it's we Frankenstein will never shed the green skin

(33:23):
with the bolts, even though that's not how he was
in the book, simply because every once in a while
somebody will be like, but that's the that's how I
see Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Actors who played Frankenstein during the Universal Era include Boris Karloff,
Long Chain and Junior, Bella Legosi and Glenn Strange Jason.
Who do you think is the most iconic actor who's
played Frankenstein. Uh? I think it's Boris Karloff. That's who
I think of when I think of.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, because I think of Bella Legos is a Dracula.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
I agree, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Although I will.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
Say the Christopher Le Dracula holds a special place in
my heart. Both that is Gary Oldman Dracula.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Less so for me personally. Both Frank, Darrenbot and Germa
del Toro have tried to reboot this specific universal Bonster
movie version of Frankenstein film aesthetic and character design, Wow
and Phil to get them off the ground. There is
a Hammer film called Curse of Frankenstein that is Christopher
Lee's debut as the creature, and we made I've never

(34:25):
seen it. You've never seen any of the Hammer.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
No movies I've seen. I've never seen. I've never seen
the Hammer Franks Sign movies. I've seen the Hammer Dracula movies.
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
So we also talked about this in our Vampires episode
last year when Sorermon played Dracula. So I also think
it's interesting that during the same era, for the same
studio he also played Frankenstein.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Told Wow, he looks weird. I've never seen a picture.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
It is weird. Other Hammer films, he.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Looks like melting faces and he's got a lot of scars. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Other Hammer films with frank Sein include The Curse of
Frankenstein in nineteen fifty seven with Chris Lee a really
young Christopher Lee, The Revenge of Frankenstein nineteen fifty eight
with two actors who played the creature, Peter Cushing and
Michael Gwynn. The Evil Frankenstein nineteen sixty four. He was
played by Kwi Kingston. Frankenstein Created Woman nineteen sixty seven,

(35:17):
that's about the Bride of Frankstein played by Susan Denver.
Frankenzein Must Be Destroyed in nineteen sixty nine. That's a
good title it is was played by Freddy Jones. The
Horror of Frankenstein nineteen seventy played by David Prowse. This
is a black comedy, the last one that they made,
and it's a remake of the Curse of frankent Segn.
It's called Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell in nineteen

(35:39):
seventy four. Also David Prowse as the creature. Can you
remember who David Prowss is.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
He's the actual Darth Vader. He's the body of RG Yeah. Yeah,
Where jan Gel Jones was the late great James ol
Jones was the voice the voice of Darnath Vader.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Of contemporary on screen adaptations where Kenth Brown as Mary
Shelley's Frankenstein is probably the most successful. In my opinion,
I think it's the best one that's ever been made.
Three to the book. And it's still not accurate to
the book. No, but it's it's fairly it's fairly probably
accurate to the book.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
And the ball machine and they made a pinball machine.

Speaker 1 (36:07):
We've had things like Victor Frankenstein, remember that, which which
flopped and failed in a huge way.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Our beloved Van Helsing from two thousand and four was
a massive hit and featured Jason's favorite version of frank
as I that we've ever seen. And if you loved
it as much as we do, don't forget that. We
have a shirt that says Mike Steven Summer's Van Helsing
to you cowards that you can you can't wear season
right now.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
If you want to listen to me SI for almost
an hour and a half, go listen to Van Helson
Van Elson. It was last year.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
It was a very fun, very fun episode with Matt Kelly.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
There's also a popular subgenre of teenage monster media which
features the creature we have frank bringing teen Oh my god,
and none of them are called that fran copyright y
history lesson. They could dig it. If you work for shutter,
Jason is available for hire. Here you're l lawyer. Here

(37:02):
are some of the amazing titles that it pulled for you.
I was a teenage Frankenstein about nineteen fifty seven. Nineteen
fifty eight saw Frankenstein's daughter with a younger girl stepping
into the role.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I pulled this one just for you. Jason.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Nineteen sixty six, Jesse James meets Frankenstein's daughter. I'm in.
As a follow up too, I'm in.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Fraggit Segin's daughter.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Why what whomst? I guess Jason Jesse James was popular
at the time, meets Frankit Seins. I don't know if
he I read nothing about this film. I don't know
if he fights Frankensein's daughter. I don't know if he
protects Frankenstein's His daughter is in the Old West. I
guess I maybe she immigrated to America in a better life.
She five all goes West did it herself? Nineteen eighty

(37:48):
seven brought us a version of the creature in the
classic Monster Squad and all the way up to the
modern Monster High animated show has a character called Frankie Steen,
and she's really cute if you look up her design.
I think she's actually a horrible Herman Munster. Got to
talk about mister Herman Munster from the show The Monsters.

(38:08):
He is not explicitly Frankenstein's creature. He is Herman Munster. Howmever,
his character design definitely borrows heavily from the Boris Karla
filmed and that universal monster era, and is probably the
most iconic, one of the most iconic television characters, along
with the Adams Family butler Lurch, who borrows from that

(38:30):
same inspiration. Lurch, I think is an even further sort
of step away, but he's definitely inspired by. Yeah, he's
definitely a Frankstein of Frankenstein. He's probably actually closer to
a zombie. Now, Jason, we've got to talk some crossovers. Okay,
in what respect the creature crossed the pond to appear

(38:52):
in our beloved Doctor Who. Okay, in nineteen sixty five.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Across the pond, he's already English.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Well, but you know we were talking about America. I mean,
he's actually Swiss. He's Swiss, so he didn't cross anybody.
He's crossed the channel. He's Swiss, Swiss, Scottish.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Where does frank Stein show up in Doctor Who?

Speaker 1 (39:10):
In the nineteen sixty five Doctor Who Cereal the chase,
there was a sequence it was the First Doctor. Yeah, yeah,
nineteen sixty five. In the First Doctor, set in what
appears to be a mysterious old house where various horror
film monsters, including Frankenstein's Monster Menace, the Doctor and his companions,
and eventually the Daleks. The house is subsequently revealed to

(39:33):
be a haunted house exhibit in an event entitled the
Festival of Ghana. So it was a haunted house, it
was a monster house. Then theyret conned it to be
a haunted house in a future episode. I was going
to say this, you know they do for Doctor Who,
they do Christmas specials. I would be totally down if
they did Halloween special Doctors special every year too.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Agree, and I.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Think Doctor Who in particular would be great for Okay,
I have two more Doctor Who Cereals to tell you about.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
Frankenstein is in multiple You're telling several many. Frankenstein is
a Doctor Who villain.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yes seriously, or at least a doctor who antagonists.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
I'm gonna look at a picture of this.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
In the nineteen seventy six Doctor Who's Cereal, the Brain
of Morbius.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
Okay, so that would have been Tom Baker. Great The
Fourth Doctor Great title okay.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
Interesting has a time Lord criminal brought back to life
by a mad scientist using the time Lord's brain and
a body composed of various alien races who had crashed
onto the planet where Morbius's brain had been stored since
his defeat. So it's not necessarily Frankenstein's creature, but this
is a version of making a Frankenstein's monster, if you will.

(40:41):
And then the final appearance of the creature. Oh my gosh,
look Jason showing me a picture of the First Doctor
next to a uh Frankenstein. Large frank The First Doctor
bolt is both like very funny.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
His bolts are like pointed forward.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, not my favorite Frankenstein cost it for any I know.
I think he's also with Dracula. Dracula's on the other side.
That's cute well, because it's he's menaced by various monsters
in the Haunted House. The third and final to date
appearance in the Regeneration sequence of the Seventh Doctor Sylvester
McCoy into Paul mcganhn, one of my most beloved versions

(41:18):
of the Doctor. Oh, this doesn't count. In the nineteen
ninety SIXTEENV movie Doctor Who, the night attendant in the
morgue is watching the nineteen thirty one frank sign in
the next room over, and the scene of the monster
being brought to life is intercut with the doctor's resurrection.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Intentionally filmed it that way to make it Frankenstein. Yeah,
why do you Okay, you had a really strong reaction.
Why do you say that doesn't count? It doesn't count
as an appearance of Frankenstein a Doctor Who, in my opinion,
but it's a nice that it's on a TV monitor,
But no, I don't because it's not it's a regeneration.
Even though they intentionally like filmed it like Victor Frankenstein's

(41:54):
coming back to life, it doesn't count. Okay, okay my opinion.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I'm going to also tell you about some Frankenstein Franka
science monsters, Franksin's creatures appearances not on the screen, but
in other forums of pop culture. Maybe who could possibly
say definitely not pinball machines. Ah.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Right after this, we.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
Are back on geek history. Lesson talking about Frankenstein and
Victor Frankstin's creature in pop culture.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Jason, I'm not a Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Not a frank Sign if we were, I want to
state that for the record, Thank you Frankstein. As we're
wrapping up our discussion on television appearances, how many television
credits do you think Frankenstein has according to IMDb?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
According to IMDb, this number you can round us to
the nearest hundred. See even that, I think I'm going
to be nowhere even close. It's either a very low
number or it's an insane number.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
That I can't even possibly it's a high number.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
I'm going to say eight hundred and seventy five too high.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
He has just under five one hundred television credits four
hundred and ninety seven, which I think is very high.
So I want to take us out of the realm
of television and into the realm of the theater where
the good actors are, and I want to shout.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Out a lot of mediums there, Jesus good, all good
actors do theater.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
I want to shodd a very specific piece of theater
from twenty eleven that is very near and dear to
my heart. Frankenstein is a play adapted by Nick Deear
from the original novel, premiered at the Royal National Theata
in twenty eleven, and originally starred Bennett's Cumberbatch and Johnny
Lee Miller, two Sherlocks, alternating the roles of Victor Frankenstein
and the Creature each night. A recording of the performance

(43:43):
was broadcast live in cinemas worldwide in March twenty eleven.
You can actually find this recording on but also on
Amazon Prime. You can find both versions. In my opinion,
Cumberbatch is the better Creature and Johnny Miller is the
better frankis Steine. And to explain, yeah, they changed roles every.

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Night every night.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
It does not follow the book super strictly. It opens
with the birth of the Creature and it's fascinating, Like
if you ever want to see how you could take
a monster story like this and bring it to the
stage and it could be engaging, exciting and scary. I
think this is a masterful production and if you're not
aware of it, I'm like begging you to check it out.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Frankenstein and the.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Creature have also appeared in both DC and Marvel comics,
and we are hoping to talk more about that at
a later date.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Will it be this year, will it be next year?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Who could possibly say we can give it away.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
We have a lesson that is about Frankenstein in d
C comics, because.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
He is a character that exists in the d and.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Has done some fairly prominent If oh wows, that will
be another episode of speaking. If my schedule does not allow,
then maybe I'll get an extra sorry people do it,
maybe you'll get no members. So the Creature we're going
to wander through the Alps exactly that.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
So that's I just want to let you know. That's
why I'm not diving too deeply into the comic side
of things, because we're hoping. We're hoping to do that.
And I do want to wrap up this episode, Jason
like a dead body on the lab, by asking you
a very important question via bed Do you know.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
At what apex in pop culture? Frankenstein meets Star Wars?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
What what are you talking about? So, according to an
article by slash Film, George Lucas was inspired by the
birth sequence of the Creature and the Bride when he
was designing Darth Statius's lightning effects. Well.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Also, this is very specific reference. If you watch the
birth of Darth Vader in Star Wars episode three, the
Revenge of the Sith. The way that Darth Vader walks
off the slab, yeah and then screams no is one
hundred percent inspired by Frankenstein's birth sequence in the original

(46:13):
Universal Monsters Frankenstein. So there you go. So that's okay
in kind of a loose sense. I literally thought you
were just about to tell me that Star Wars had
introduced Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
I did it.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
There was a story where the Jedi fighter Frankstein, and
I was immediately going to be like, cancel all Star Wars.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
It's done. I'll say this. There is a persistent rumor
that DC is going to buy Universal or Disney's going
to buy Universal, so they they're I was like, DC's
gonna be Universe. It's gonna be great. Wow.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
So uh, there's still time. Again. I'm just gonna say this,
you know, and I think Star Wars should go to
sleep for quite a while. Anyways, if Frankenstein shows up
in Star Wars, put it to bed at film it's done.
Movies are done. Well with that, that's your episode on Frankston.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
There you go, Jason, anything anything to add, anything you
want to bring up before we head on into our
honor roll.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I just want to remind everybody that there is a
pinball machine for the Kenneth brought a frankin Stock movie,
which is the oddest choice of all time. You can
find it on YouTube, and again there's a certain shot
on it. Again, if you make the shot, he goes
a shot.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
And if you ever go to the Pinball Hall of
Fame in Las Vegas, Nevada, and you play the version
of it that they have there, please know that Jason
and I played that same machine. Yeah, you can fill
our fingers.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
There you go, and then guess all the other ones that.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
We maybe take some our DNA and maybe make your
own Frank and pet the.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Cats while you're there too. There's two cats to living there.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, there you go. This is not advertising for the
Las Vegas Pinball Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
If they want to sponsor us, though, I'd be so thrilled.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
I don't think they sponsor anybody.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
All right, let's do the honor roll. Jason would be
so kindest to tell us what that is.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Yes, that's if you go over to Apple Podcasts and
you leave us a five star review, we will read
your review live on the air. And if you're an
international listener. We can't see you're in a national Apple
podcasts so please email us at geek Hissery Lesson at
gmail dot com. So who gave us five stars? What
did they say this week? So?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
I want to tell you most importantly that this review
comes from a nice person named Jason all the way
in my native Canada in the Great White North, Oh Okay. Yes,
I learned that that's what it's called. Yes, their username
is inconspicuous inc. And they say great geek listening. A
great show digging into the history of different comics, characters

(48:28):
and properties. I found it enjoyable for exploring backstories. I'm
less familiar with a total recommend after hearing the Emma
Frost episode show do you Do You go for that?
I'm hopeful for more villains to be spotlighted. I'd love
to hear episodes on Sabertooth, Mystique, Black Manta, and dead Shot.
My friend got an episode on dead Shot already.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Franke its Sign's a villain, No he's not, y Oh, Frankett.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Sign is the villain? Yes, the creature and not a villain?
Maybe an animal villains A month since you read each
fifser review online. Give me your best excelsior. When we
give an excel sewer, it excels it in the in
the accident, everyone's expecting things. Stanley, Yes, thank you, I'm
as good. Where's this person's name?

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Jason? Yeah, stan Lee, I invented fangs.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Dying sure in the Marvel universe. No, everywhere. He's mine, Mary,
Shelley's gonna crawl out of her grace. I'll expect that.
Check in the mail, Shelley. You didn't copy ready fast enough. Okay,
can you tell can you tell Canadian Jason what he
gets in the Are we done with I didn't know
we were done with his review? Yeah, it doesn't get anything.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
He just gets to enjoy coming in the teacher's lounge.
And if you want to join him, come over and
write five stars on Apple Podcasts and you know you
get our ever loving support and enthusiasm. And if you
want to suggest a future lesson like Frankenstein, Ashley, where
can they find us on social media?

Speaker 1 (49:50):
You can find us all over social media at geek
history lesson coming in with us on threads. It's nice there,
but for now, well at the time of this recording,
it's nice there.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And if you want to enjoy some Patreon ad free
episodes of this podcast, or listen to Ashley's new bonus
podcast where they're talking Titans, where they're reviewing all the
teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Titans. Yeah, I did that intentionally,
the animated series. You can check that out Patreon dot
com slash Jamin Ashley.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Where can they find you on threads?

Speaker 2 (50:20):
You'd find me at Ashley v. Robinson and you can
find me on threads at Jowen.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
And now it's time for.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
What we learned to that.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Wow, I was like, I don't know what's happening. What
have we learned today? Well, we've learned that the creature
isn't green. We've learned that an eighteen year old woman
invented science fiction. And we've learned that when in doubt,
just run away from your problems.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
And go to the Alps or maybe Scotland. And I
think we've also learned one other very important lesson ooh,
that we must never forget.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Could it possibly be five? And if you don't, if
you don't know that joke, you haven't work. There's multiple skits. Yeah,
and they're all dema. Thank you so much for listening.
To geek history lesson, I'm Jason in then.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
I'm Ashy Victoria Robinson, Professor Ashley, will you please close
out the podcast? Class is now Frankenstein. They're all related, right, Sure,
they're all cousins. Well, they're actually all public domain characters.
But they are also fictional characters that all exist in
the d C comic book universe. So Ashley, mythologies books pros.

(51:38):
They're already complicated enough on their own. Do you think
these public domain characters, these my mythological characters, should also
exist in a fictional shared universe, such as the DC
Comics universe.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
No, okay, let's get into this.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
What it's kind of why I take umbrage with some
of the Charlton characters and some of the fawcet Comics.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Characters Face characters like Shazam Yeah, and Charlton characters like
Rorshak and the original the Original Sandman, the Question and
Blue Beetle. Blue Beetle being the exception I piece maker
Charlton characters.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
I have no use for Peacemaker he can he can
GDFO As far as I'm concerned, the characters were not
originally designed to play in the rules of the DC
Comics universe. The Marvel Comics universe. It's a little bit
different when you start going to things like Image and
Boom because it's on a shared universe. There's there're indie books,
but the DC universe has fairly hard and fast rules,

(52:43):
and I think putting characters that come from other heart,
I just it's not my it's not my bag, it's
not I think it's I think it's trying to take
a square a square peg and put it in a
round hole or the other way around, whichever one it's
not supposed to be.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
May if I may expand on your theory, I think
maybe the issue that you're getting around is that the
idea that you know, Sherlock Holmes is a literary detective,
Hercules is a myth, Frankenstein is a horror whereas the
DC universe is a superhero universe, and trying to put
those into the rules of a superhero universe over complicates

(53:20):
it all.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
I think so, and I just I don't want I
don't like Sherlock Holmbs in Magic, so I certainly don't
like Sherlock Holmes and Iver.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
The Sherlock Holmbs and Babman Batman.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
He does. There's literally I will say, is a fun
idea for a one off, which is what that book is.
It's a fun idea for a one off because they're
both detective.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Here's something that I want to say that will blow
your mind, the mind of most of our listeners right now,
because they don't even consider it. You don't realize most
people I hear that Wonder Woman, Batman, Superman also not
created to be a part of a shared universe. There
was no such thing as a shared universe when those
characters are created.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
But I also take on bridge to let's go to
the other side of the fence. I have a hard
time to spending my disbelief that in the Avengers you
have the Norse gods and the Green Greek god Greek gods,
but also and the Symbios have gods apparently for some
stupid well, and then there's.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
Eternals and whatever.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
But then also there are still people who believe in Christianity,
Like why would you be a Christian if you lived
in a world where Thor could come and have a
barbecue with you know what?

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Like it?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Just because it's why I don't like heaven and Hell
in comic book. I don't want to say it's it's
too many mixing mythology, pick a lane and statue.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Well, speaking of Alane and sticking to it. Welcome to
Geek History Lesson. I'm Jason, and then.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson. Welcome to your Spooky Mind University.
Because I am a comic book writer from Canada, I
am joined by a screenwriter from Kansas and we are
going to take one character contract or monster from popular
culture and teach you everything you need to know about
it in about an hour. And this episode is a
fun companion piece too last week's episode.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yes, if this follows in order, well, because I'm gonna
put it there. We're talking about the Frankenstein that exists
in d C Comics. So we did Frankenstein on pop culture.
Now we're doing Frankenstein specifically in DC comics because DC
Comics has had several versions of the character of Frankenstein
that has been a member of their lore. Yes, so
we're going to dig into that. We have some research

(55:21):
and writing help from our gtail research assistant, Diego Anthony
Juniez and with much further ado, without much further ado,
like Frankenstein's monster, I can't speak. Let's get into the
ten cent origin, Ashley, would you mind explaining what that
is to it?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Not judging up the can Frankenstein's creature speaker not from
last week's EPI, So this one's can definitely speak. Yeah,
this one can, and he wants me to tell you that.
The Tents and Origin is the first part of the
podcast where Jason is going to give you all the basics,
suseits and what's its galore in case you go to
you know, like a cool horror themed cocktail party and
someone's like, well, wait, Frankenstein is in dese gomics.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
What So the tents and origin in this one is
going to be different because there have been ultiple Frankenstein's.
So I'm just going to tell you a little bit
about the first one great, and then the rest of
them you'll figure it out. As the first time that
Frankenstein appeared in DC Comics was in May of nineteen
forty eight in a story by Edmund Hamilton and Bob

(56:17):
Kaines Batman created but of course, uh, you know, are
the modern version of Frankenstein. There's a guy that kind
of takes over his his team affiliations are the Creature Commandos,
the Seven Soldiers, Shade, Just League, Dark, and the Just League.
He has superhuman strength and he's immortal. So let's get
into the history one O one Now, before we get
into the comic book history of Frankie in the DC universe,

(56:39):
we're going to briefly radiate reiterate the novel from.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Last week justin case.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Just get the basics here. Victor Frankenstein reanimates the dead
through an unorthodox scientific experiment. He collects a bunch of
fresh body parts, he stitches them together, apparently makes the
guy a foot tall foot tall, and he reanimates his
creature through an electrical current, whether US, lightning or you know,
he just turns up the power. So through a series
of carn enge and mayhem and various adventures in Switzerland,

(57:03):
doctor Frankenstein winds up dead near the North Pole, and
the creature exiles himself by floating alone on an ice raft.
So in most of the DC versions, that is the
origin of Frankstein.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
So why would you mess with one of the greatest stories?

Speaker 2 (57:20):
After all, there is one of them that will changed that.
But that is basically the novel. In all of these versions.
These is Frankenstein having the ventures in the DC universe
after the novel. Yeah, he's like, I killed my dad,
I got business to do and you want more expansion
to that, go go listen to the last week's episodes.
As we talked about so actically, the modern version of Frankenstein,
the main version, the one that has the most stories,

(57:40):
is a version that appeared in two thousand and five,
and we will talk about them, but we want to
talk about some of the previous versions before we get
to the two thousand and five version. But first, Ashley,
I hate to do this, boy, we have to do
a first in GHL history.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
We have to this like five hundred and seventeen episodes
deep to be doing it first.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
This is a first in she Chilled history.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
We have to give out a retraction.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
WHOA Okay, because I hate to tell you, we have
to announce a retraction from last week's episode of Geek
History lesson because Ashley, as I learned in the research
of this lesson, Frankenstein was not created solely by Mary Shelley.
Frankenstein was also inspired by Batman and Robin Oh Jesus,

(58:30):
I was true.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
I was like.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I was gonna scream this is true. In Detective Comics
number one thirty five.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Mary Shelley is crawling out of her grave right now,
and she is on her way across the Atlantic to
beat you up.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Well, you know, we didn't know that she got inspiration
from Batman and Robin. So to Shay, lady, go back
to your grave and.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Get Batman and Robbin some credit.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
So in Detective Comics number one thirty five in nineteen
forty eight, there is this guy that wants to learn
the truth about Frankenstein. Sure, because in the D universe,
Frankenstein is a real thing that happened.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Yep. I love the idea of like the Swiss newspaper
just being like alert alert, Yep, they digged all that.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Ye in the cannon of the DC universe, Frankenstein was
a real event.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
And this here, my friends, is why I do not
like the melding of classic literature and mythology with comic books.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
So this guy that is very curious about Frankenstein, he
travels through time to meet Baron von Frankenstein, not a
Victor barn so this Baron's gentry. So it was learned
that this Baron guy, he would he would use people
while they were unconscious, So they would be unconscious, but
they would be knocked out and not quite dead, low

(59:43):
heart rate, all these kinds of things. And this guy,
this Barreon guy, would use adrenaline, and these people, while
they were rejected by adrenaline, would be under the Baron's
control and they would do his bidding. I think they
would just wake up.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
Yeah, comics, sure, it's fine. It's no sillier than in
the actual frankmus is a Bob Kane.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Sorry, Okay, from nineteen forty eight, So these people were
considered to be the Frankenstein Monsters.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Okay, that's a fairly elegant ret con.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Sure. Now, Batman and Robin they use a bat time
machine to get back to the eighteen hundreds and they
meet up with Baron von Frankenstein. And once they get there,
Batman gets knocked out. The Baron gets a hold of him,
and Batman becomes under his throat. Batman becomes a Frankenstein Monster.
Now Robin gets away because he's Robin, but he's saved
for Robin. He saves the day and he snaps Batman

(01:00:35):
right out of the mine control and realizing that this
isn't mind control, and his mind control isn't permit because
they woke up Batman. Batman's only we could wick him
all up, chum. So they wake up all of the
Frankenstein monsters from the trans and they wake everybody up.
Batman and Robin win the day. They stop Baron from
Frankenstein from doing this ever again, and afterwards they start
they're like, you know, hey, this eighteen hundreds is nineteenth century,

(01:00:56):
not so bad. Let's just hang out here in our weird,
whitey tidy costumes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Yeah, we love the Victorian era. It's going great for us.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
So they start talking to this girl on the street
and for some reason, they tell this girl the entire
adventure about oh, the Frankenstein Monster. And this girl turns
out to be Mary Shelley and she used these events
to write her novel.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Okay, this that's rude in disrespectful.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Actually, how do you feel now that you know the
truth that Batman and Robin wrote frank The truth that Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Came was such a misogynist that he could not imagine
that an eighteen year old girl could have written Frankman.
I was in on this story where Robin was saving
the day, and then you had to ruin it in
the epilogue, mister Kane, how very dare. Yeah, it's an
interesting enough story. It's fine for like a Golden Age

(01:01:47):
a story. It's probably cute. But I'm mad. You know
what you shouldn't be mad about, though, Ashley reanimating? Of course, Well,
sure you should never be mad about that. But I
was going to say our patron over at patreon dot
com slash jah, I do love our Patreon. It's filled
with the reanimated corpses of our listeners. Is filled with
the roeumantic court corpses of our listeners. That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
If you want to go over there and listen to
some ad free episodes, or check out our newest podcast,
Talking Titans, hosted by the Titanic Ashley and the Titanic
Diego Whim, where they're going to review every single episode
of the two thousand and six and three Titans animated series.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
You can go check that out.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
And also join our exclusive discord will be having a
book club on the Hounds of the Baskerville. If you're
in the spooky season, Oh great, come on over to
patreon dot com Slasha. Don't ever be mad about that? Now,
come join the thrall become one of our Frankstein.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
I'm joining us. If you die, we'll revive you so
you can live with us forever. That's right, forever in
the discord.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
All right, So let's move on into the Bronze Age
of comics, because there's another freaking sign that appears in
the Bronze Age of comics. We actually, would you like
to do a quick reiteration of what the Bronze Age is.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Bronze Age begins in about nineteen eighty, nineteen seventy, oh,
just kidding, nineteen seventy. I thought it started with newteen Titans.
Just kidding. It's follows the Silver Age, and it takes
all the silliness of the Silver Age and says nuts
to that, we want to tell slightly more serious, slightly morture,
slightly darker stories, and you get a lot of iconic

(01:03:13):
comic books that we've never gotten over and are still
aping to this very day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
So in the Bronze Age, Frankie starts showing up in
comics in a more traditional interpretation, in a bunch of
backup stories of the Phantom Stranger written by the late
Great len Wien Crator of Wolverine amazing, and some of
these adventures were called the Spawn of Frankenstein, so he
was called the spawn of Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Are you daring to assert that the green version of
Frankenstein is the classic version of Frankenstein. I don't know
what you mean by that. Well, you said the classic version.
I'm pretty sure he's like painted green, and that is
not the classic version. That's the universal buzz to me. Well,
it's the classic version for this verson, it's the classic
version that we all think about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
I'm just teasing. So the Phantom Stranger, for all of
those don't know nobody really knows.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Who he is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
He wears a felt hat, he wears a cool necklace,
but they don't know his origin, his background, his name.
He's a mystical bean with deep knowledge of the cult.
Usually shows up in Superman adventures and is like Superman,
there's a ghost and Superman's like, okay, I go goggle
punch it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Or to be like John Constantine, you got to strain
up and fly right. In some versions, it's kind of
revealed that he's Judas from the Bible, the Betrayer of
Jesus Christ. If you know that, if you ever read
that book.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
I didn't know that. That's kind of interesting. Yeah, and
thatogy this is his eternal penance. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Yeah, there's a lot of mixing and mythology. So in
this version, Victor Adams, not bear involved in Frankenstein, comes
across the frozen body of the Frankenstein monster and determines
to revive him. He uses a laser device to revive
the creature and things start to go sideway as explosions happen.
Victor doesn't survive, but the experiment is success. The creature

(01:04:41):
is alive. However, from this incident, and Frankie being the
only creature that lives through this incident, of course, people
come across this laser site where there have been explosions,
and they immediately believe that this monster at the spawn
of Frankenstein is responsible for all the chaos, and so
they get their pitchforks and they get their burning torches,

(01:05:03):
and they decid to chase them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
I like how and the Marvel University cut somebody out
of the ice, they turn out to be Captain America.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
And in the DC University cut someone out of the ice.
They're a horrible disfigured monster. So Frankie takes the remains
of Victor, hoping to resurrect him, and Rachel, the wife
of Victor, is looking to get revenge. Sure, Frankie, but
wouldn't you know it, she happens to get kidnapped by
a Satanic colt.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Oh, I mean, as happens. It's the nineteen seventies.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
That's why satanic panic is at its height.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
We love post omen and of.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Course the Satanic clt they want to use her as
a sacrifice for immortality.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Coincidentally, Frankie finds himself at the right place at the
right time and he saves her. I love that comment,
and he burns the cultists alive, honestly. Good for him, Yep,
good for him. But then it turns out that the
cultists were able to actually rattle off a quick spell
before the end, and they summon two demons that go
around possessing people, and that is when the Phantom Stranger arrives.

(01:05:57):
These demons hop around possessing different people as frank tries
to get them to stop, and that's when the Phantom
Stranger intervenes to exercise the demons and help save the day.
And because of this, Frankie basically forgets about resurrecting Victor,
so he did Daddy, and he decides to go on
a crusade to fight these cultists and basically someone dies

(01:06:20):
because the cultists. Frankie gets blamed from it. Rinse and repeat,
rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat this. Fawn of Frankenstein
even fights Batman and Superman at one point.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Great are they the cult but eventually probably probably?

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
But eventually Frankly gets tired of it and he isolates
himself in the woods, never to be seen again.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Sad face. Because the series was ending. Now we're going
to look into the Creature Commandos because there is a
show coming up called The Creature Commandos, so it's definitely
worth getting familiar with them. And they're sort of Frankenstein
monster on the team. He's not really called the Frankenstein,
but he's basically yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, so one of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
The Creature Commandos. It's basically a military team of monsters
that would go an unconventional mission set during World War Two.
They're comprised of a human leader, a werewolf of Empire,
a gorgon, and of course.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
A Frankenstein Coregan. I didn't know that that's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
This version of Frankie was actually a man named Elliott
Taylor who became this creature after stepping onto a landmine
in the battlefield. Now, doctor Mazerski and his team surgeons
rebuilt Elliott because they have the technology, but they did
not rebuild him as the bionic Man. They brought him
back as a Frankenstein monster, and he became known as Patchwork.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Oh Uh, that's okay, that's more creative than I would
have thought. But I gotta I gotta say, I think
he would rather been a.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Six million dollars man.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
Yeah, I agree, who wouldn't want to be? Lee Majors
got us a fantastic about le major Google like you'll
figure out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
As Patchwork, he becomes a near and destructible ogre with
superhuman strength in vulnerability, and stamina, although his vocal cords
were destroyed during the procedure. Now Elliott was rebuilt as creature,
he had nowhere to go, and doctor Mazerski, the man
who rebuilt him, recruits Elliott to be part of the
creature Commandos. Now, these commandos of creatures would be sent

(01:08:04):
out into the field basically to scared Nazis.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Uh, I'm not joking.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
They were literally just sent out into the field to
scare Nazis and a noble pursuit, specifically in their tale
of weird weird war Tales number ninety three, and it's
like rationalized as psychological warfare. Sure, because these Nazis are.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Like, oh, the gothing wolf here German is impeccable. I
think it's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
The creatures first mission out they invaded castle in France
occupied by the Nazis that are also conducting weird experiments.
And in the castle they discovered the Nazis have created
robotic replicants of famous political leaders like Franklin Delano, Roosevelt, Stalin,
Winston Churchill, hoping to give the Allies the old switcheros. Okay,

(01:08:51):
sure sounds like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
A Nazi plan. Why not? Yeah, we go. The Nazis
were actually trying to do mysticism. This is way less
interesting than some of the things they were trying to
We're going to take that's yeah. I just love the
idea of like we got a clone us. Great, but
not eleanor Rude Frankly our first female president.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Only Winston Stalin Fdr not the Queennah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Yeah, not not Lizzie, not Harry truman Na not uh,
Lizzy wasn't doing nothing though. I mean Churchill, if you're
gonna BET's, he's going to bet on.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Not any of these people. Fortunately, thank god, the Commandos
destroy this lab. They blow up the castle and the
replicants and the mission is a total success. Yay.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
So honestly, if the movie is anything like that or
the show rather, I'm kind of into it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
So I want to ask you, Ashley, you know there's
a lot of crossover here between the Creature of Commandos
and the Suicide Squaw. Yes, they are the same in
most respects, and comic books does tend to see a
lot of ideas rinse and repeat from you know, I
know we only just talked about the Creature Comandez a
little bit here, But like, in your opinion, which do
you think is the cooler concept, the Creature Commandos or
the Suicide Squad. That's tough because preachucraman Is are monsters squad.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Basically, I'm a little Suicide Squad died it out from.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Just their current just two movies.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Yeah, Well they're like they're in Harley Quinnah, Like there's
they've got a bunch of comics now I think at
its core, I think Suicide Squad is more interesting idea,
and I think Suicide Squad has a blow for blow
had more more better stories than Creature Brando's. But you know,
I can see, particularly for the Bronze Jay's, like I
could see why this idea would.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Have been interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Do I think there's a reason why the guy who
made the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Suicide Squad
is going to make the Creature Commandos?

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Like, yeah, I see the line.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
I definitely do, But I think suicide squads are probably
better interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
I think Creature Commandos is such a more interesting idea.

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
I don't know. Again, it's a lot of mixing, like,
oh so in this universe werewolves are real. Oh so
in this universe vampires are.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Real organ and frame yeah, and mummies.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
But I get like, because it's a newer idea to me,
I'm a bit more interested in it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
No, We've had those conversations several times where it's like
it's one of the things that I dislike. Every time
the X Men meet Dracula, oh yeah, and they'll go
to space and they've crossed paths with Dracula multiple times.
In fact, it several X Men characters have become vampire
Julie Store, and yeah, it really knocks me out to
be like, yeah, I get it. We live in a
universe where like there are all these people with multiple

(01:11:30):
mutant powers, but like it just like pushes the edge
of credibility when it's like, oh, you're also a vampire.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Yeah, it to me, it becomes that thing of I'm gonna,
I'm gonna not get the Jurassic Park quote, right, But basically,
just because you can do something doesn't mean you should
do something. And I think, I don't know, it's I
don't I intellectually don't like the idea, but I'm not
saying you can't tell a compelling story with it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
And we should also go back to the original idea
too as well, where like, you know, we talked about
this a lot of times that like Shazam was not
a TC comic scare to Chans not be a DC
Comics character, and he's actually like complicated the DC universe
because they're basically makes two Superman out there. And then
also Shazam is just such a more interesting concept when
they are in their own bubble.

Speaker 1 (01:12:12):
I agree, like I are the only Heroes of the Universe.
I like in the idea of the multiversity that like
that Fawcet is its own planet. Yeah, like there are
some some.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
ELTs worlds should just be ELTs worlds, you know. Well,
it's also the interesting thing because you know, Captain Marvel
was a direct copy of Superman. Yeah, and then for
a time outsold Superman. I'm I'm also like, and DC
only bought Shazam because they didn't want them to out
sell them anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yeah. I just think have some Marvel's mos interesting. Yeah,
I think he is.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Again when he's in his own universe, sure, but when
you put him next to Superman, Superman's way more interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
And again I'm not saying I've never read a great
Shazam story or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
But blow for blow, Yeah, blow for blow. It's time
to talk about the Seven Soldiers of Victory. This is
the part I was excited for.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Well, don't get too I'm so excited because we have to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Take a break out, So you stick around maybe for
seven seconds.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Well that's probably be longer.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
That, but stick around and we'll be back to talk
about the Seven Soldiers of Victory and Frankenstein Geeg giess Lesson,
we're back. We're talking about Frankenstein in d C comics,
and it's now time to talk about Some might call
them the modern Prometheus. I call him the modern Frankenstein
of the DC universe, a member of the Seven Soldiers

(01:13:29):
of Victory. Definitely the frank Sin the DC universe that
has the most issues, even got his own solo series. Yeah,
so we're gonna talk about a little bit of a
production history in a background. Back in two thousand and five,
Grant Morrison, the sculsoschwriter and artists like Doug Monkey, j Williams,
the Third, Ryan sook Yennick Paquette, and a whole bunch
of others took up the task of bringing the Seven

(01:13:50):
Soldiers of Victory into the modern era of DC comics. Now,
if you've never heard of this team before, the original
Seven Soldiers was a team up book of different d
comics heroes. It was actually the second supero team ever
in comic books. What actually debuted after the Just Society
of America as JSAYA back in the golden age of comics,

(01:14:12):
back in the thirties and forties. This team was made
up of different characters that weren't quite as popular. Okay,
The original lineup included characters like the Vigilante, the Crimson Avenger,
the Shiny Night, the star Spangled Kids, Stripesy, Green Arrow,
and Speedy. Now a lot of those might sound very
familiar to you, but this team was reinvented in a
sort of post crisis on Infinite Earth's world. Ashley is

(01:14:34):
what's crisis anthorst case anybody doesn't know?

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
Ah. In the Hallowed Year of Our Lord nineteen eighty five,
DC was like, there are so many universes. There's Earth A,
there's Earth B, there's the fowcet Earth. What is happening?
So they invented the Anti Monitor and they made him
really angry and he ate all the universes, and he
farted out one universe, the end and in this world.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Graham Morrison wrote a series called JLA about the Just
League of America. Yes, it's amazing, and later he said,
I started off in two thousand and two with the
idea to do a JLA spinoff called JL eight The
Number eight, Oh Sure, which featured a bunch of sealless
characters getting together as a DC analog of the Avengers
of the Ultimates. I worked on the material for the

(01:15:20):
next two years and eventually turned it into the Seven
Soldiers concept. As it finally emerged, He's called it his
love letter to the new Gods, Jack Kirby and the
Monsters of Lenwen from the nineteen seventies. So let me
tell you about Graham Morrison Seven Soldiers of Victory, which
Frankenstein's a big part of it features modular storytelling.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
I'm glad you asked? What is that?

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Seven Soldiers begins with Seven Soldiers Numbers zero and runs
through seven different four issue mini series that all conclude
with a second issue called Seven Soldiers Number One. Each
mini series has our seven Soldiers playing in their own
sandbox and yet parallel, yet inevitably converging towards their shared crisis.

(01:16:06):
Each of the parallel storylines are modular nature in that
they can be read by themselves, but the true reard
from this comes from the convergence of the narratives and
how they all fit together in a puzzle. The reader
itself plays an active role in streaming these threads together,
because the Seven Soldiers from Grant Morrison are a team
that never meets each other, and even in the culmination,

(01:16:28):
none of them are fully aware of each of the
other roles and how each of them have all affected
each other's storylines. In this sort of obscure crisis of
Grant Morrison cured it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
I use the word obscured because in this version the
set of characters that take on this crisis are more interesting.
They're both isolated and again they proverbally never cross pass
you're describing the formata.

Speaker 1 (01:16:50):
This sounds like the most Grant morrisony Grant Morrison thing
I've heard in a while.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Now, the series features a new lineup of the seven
Soldiers that are working together to stop an invasion from
the which is an alien race from the future. Sure
the Sheeta are fore told that they will be defeated
by a team of seven soldiers, and they begin the
target teams of the seven, including the Justice League of America. Now,
because the seven soldiers have never met each other, they

(01:17:16):
actually stand the chance of working towards defeating the Hietah
because the Sheeta don't see them as a real team.
This lineup includes in each of these characters got their
own mini series, The Shiny Night, The Best, The Manhattan Guardian,
sure Zitana Ah Clarion, the witch Boy, a new Mister Miracle,
a new character called Bulleteer, and of course Frankenstein interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
And if anyone is a little less many with DC,
seven is a classic number for a DC Comics super team,
so that making that a prophecy is actually really smart
because there's about four or five different teams that could
fulfill that. Now, before we get.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Into talking about specifically, Frank could say, Ashley, I want
to talk to you about the legacy of the Seven
Soldiers of Victory, and I want to talk about, like,
what are your thoughts on rebranding team names and changing
them into completely different concepts, all of the Thunderbolts, all A,
even X Factor ALLA, even the JSA.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
How do you feel about this? I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
I don't mind it, even the Suicide Squad.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
I really don't mind it because I think I think
I've seen enough examples of it done really well.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
I think the I think the posts.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
X Force is even one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
Two.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
I think that's the second time you brought up X Force. No,
I said X Factor the first. Oh you did, get right?
The reason why because the first X.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
Factor is a government team, and then there's Factors, and
then there's the show that's the no there. The second
extract is like the Detective Agency. Yeah, and an X Force.
You have the Rob Leifield cable team, and then it
becomes the reality show that Dupe is a part of.
That's right, That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:18:46):
So anyway, with Seven Soldier Victory in particular, I think
the best version of Seven Soldiers of Victory is the
post New fifty two.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Series.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
I don't know what, Seriah you're referring to. I thought
that was the that is not this serious where we're
ahead of the New fifty two If that's what you're
thinking about. Yeah, yeah, But isn't there one after the
New fifty two? Not that I'm aware of, anyway, I don't.
I think it's fine if it's a good idea, which
is a dumb answer, because that's true of absolutely everything
I think. I think because comics are so long, like

(01:19:18):
the JSA's evolution makes a lot of sense to me,
and making it the golden aged heroes I think was
really smart because it's a place for them to go,
and it's it's a way to tell a story about them.
Has this been done in a really dumb way a
bunch of times too? Of course it has there's a
lot of Commons champions a lot, there's a lot of
common I mean there's been dumb X Men teams that
have completely rebranded themselves, like, but Thunderables, I think is

(01:19:38):
a great example of they may found a way to
take a name and make it interesting so it as
quiet as is the same thing. So ultimately, I don't
I don't mind it. It's not something that when I
hear of, I go, like, like a lot of other
things in comic books, I think there needs to be
a lot of time in between the two. I agree,
But that's why I think with something like seven Soldiers,

(01:20:00):
I think it was probably a smart move because the last.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Seven Soldier team, yeah, was like from forty years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
Yeah, exactly, Like there needs to be more than ten
years if you're going to reintroduce a completely new identity
and point of view.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
If you're a nerd, you would kind of be like, oh,
that sounds familiar. But yeah, like what has happened to
the Thunderbolts I think is a little ridiculous now because
they're allowing like seventeen different Thunderbolts teams now, Yeah, X
Factor is kind of the same thing. Like, Yeah, I
think if you're going to do that, I think, you know,
I'm like, I think I think you need to wait
ten years, Like it needs to be Like, you can't
rename a team to a completely different concept in less

(01:20:31):
than ten years. I agree. Or you should just make
up a brand new name.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Yeah, well yeah, just make a new tape.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
Let's make new stuff. You know what's cool? New stuff? Yeah,
new things. So, speaking of a brand new Frankenstein, we're
going to focus only on the Frankenstein aspects of the
meta series because there's no need to know about any
of these other ones, because you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Again they're modular.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
But you know, a seven Soldiers make episode would be
too damn long, and it also would be not as
good as READI it, because you should go read it.
So Frankie in this series, this is the first time
in the dc universe where the character is actually the
real character from the novel from Mary Shelley's or some
people would name it Batman Robbins Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
I'm so mad about that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
After the events of the novel, in DCQ continuity, Frankie
drips off in an ice raft that makes his way
to America, and from there he reinvents himself as a
bounty hunter, saving people and hunting things, and he officially
adopts the name of Frankenstein in honor of his creator.
In the nineteenth century Encounters Mister Melmoth, mister Melmoth uses
time traveling technology where he influences certain events in history,

(01:21:37):
like the First Fall of Camelot. He in this DC
universe reveals himself to be directly responsible for providing his
blood to doctor Victor Frankenstein, which was used as part
of the experiments to reanimate the debt. So in this version,
mister Melmoth is very much like you. The experiment would
not have worked without my blood. Interesting mind that, yes, now,

(01:22:01):
meaning to some capacity that Melmoth is Frankenstein's second father
to some extent, and he will also try to leverage
that to get Frankenstein to work for him, But Frankenstein
would rather have an ongoing ralph rivalry that spawns over
the next two centuries.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Sounds like him now, because this is Graham Morrison, because
this is weird DC comics, and Frankenstein. The rivalry would
eventually take them to Mars.

Speaker 2 (01:22:22):
Okay, yeah, I hate that. Well, if you can't figure
it out here, I can't. Mister Melmouth is an alien
that's irritating. Remember no, So remember mister I said earlier
that the Seven Soldiers all about this team fighting an
evil future race of aliens called mister Melmoth is part

(01:22:43):
of that race. Okay, So the rivalry leads them to Mars. Well,
Frankie is trying to track down a bunch of children
that went missing. Melmoth is using the children from a
mining operation in the caverns of Mars to fund a
war against his wife, Gloriana, the Queen of the Shidah,
claiming that it's an effort to save Earth. Frankie finds
the operation, he kicks, but he takes the name. He
frees the children, and then he throws Melmoth into a

(01:23:04):
pit of wild space and sectoids that tear Melmoth apart.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Okay, but Frankie has a cool.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
Line that some you know could say is written by
Grant Morrison. Some might say maybe this was written by
Mary Shelley. Some might even say it was written by Batman Robin.
He says, from when you oh, from when you emerge
from the gods of these monsters, you will still be conscious,
you will still be alive.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
In the form of dung fire. In homage to Phil Hartman,
he says, firebad, but that should give you the idea
of the attitude of this Frankenstein.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
We then find out that in this dec comics that
the Bride of Frankenstein is still alive, and in the
context for the original novel, the Bride did not survive,
but in this continuity she did. She's reimagined as an
assassin goddess with a couple lexture of arms and as
part of a secret ops organization called Shade.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
It's an acronap s had frank segn agent of Shade.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Would you like to take a guess about what shade
stands for?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Well, Shade is reading, and reading is when you criticize
someone lovingly. It's for all you, Paris is burning fans
out there. I gled to take a guests and demons everywhere.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
It's not bad, thank you. It's the superhuman advanced Defense executive.
That's a dumb one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
That's not nothing will be as dumb as the various
shield acronyms.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
But that's a dumb one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Like there are multiple shield acronyms that are also beyond
Hammer is also a very stupid one, but I like
this organization called Hammers Shop.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Basically, Shade is a team of super beans that go
on Elite Espiona's operations against monsters.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Cool So the Bride.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
Is a member of Shade and she reunites with Frankie
to recruit him. He's reluctant, but his manipulated to join
thanks to his former Bride and as a field agent
for Shade. Frank is equipped with a three foot broad
sword believed to be actually used to belong to the
Rkgel Michael, an antique miss Soule mythology, and an implant
in his head that allows him to access Shade's database. Now,

(01:24:59):
Frank and the Time Ship to travel to the Chietah
Realm in the future in order to prevent their assault
on the present. He dispatches most of their army, destroys
their fleet of world destroying machines, and then he kills
the captain of the Sheietah Queen's time yacht and Hijackson
in order to return to the present of You Know
at the Time two thousand and seven. Shortly after returning

(01:25:19):
from the Sidah intervention, he was betrayed in control by Clarion.
This is one of the few crossovers in the Seven
Soldiers of Victory. Clarion is also one of the Seven
Soldiers of Victory. He's a little witch boy with a
talking cat familiar named what Kiko, and he uses a
witch brand to absurp control of Frankenstein in order to
gain control of the Sheeta of Floating Castle, the Castle revolving,

(01:25:40):
so that he could become the King of the Chidah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:44):
I mean, that's a very Clarion plan. He's a little
butthole and I love him very much.

Speaker 2 (01:25:47):
Yet one of the few crossovers where two of the
characters actually meet.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
I also want to go back to when I said
that there was a Seven Soldiers of Victory post New
fifty two series. I mix it up with Demon Knights
because they share a lot of the same characters. Yeah,
that was my mistake. A cool series, yes, but but
not frank It's Seine. But both have Shining Night of them,
which is the most important part.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Now up to this point, yes, you know, it's just
been basically Frankenstein's monster. Yes, but Ashley, I want to
ask you, what do you think about this superhero version
of Frankenstein with a big honk and anime Sword and
he's working for baslely Shield. I hate it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Why that's not who That's not who the creature is.
That's not like the intention of the character. I don't
believe that this character would would first of all, join
a team. I certainly don't believe that they would act
as some sort of agent for a government or any
other type of shady organization. I understand in comic books
you kind of got to join a team and you

(01:26:42):
kind of gotta fight bad guys or be about. I
just this is very not for me, that's all. It's
just not a bunch of tropes that I care about.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
I actually think this is a nice reinterpretation, more free,
because otherwise, to me, what I think is the problem is,
I think most versions just basically do the Frankenstein Monster
because he shouldn't be in the comic book. Yes, exactly,
but to me, that's boring. Well, we also have some
flavor on him.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
You know, And I know we'll touch on this in
the extra a little bit, but we have a bunch
of other characters who are original to the DC Comics
universe who kind of do the big scary monster who
doesn't speak very much thing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
So I appreciate the.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Swing, and I appreciate trying to integrate the character into
the tropes. It's just not what I want to read.
It's all, yeah, I get it. Yeah. Well, we're going
to talk a little.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
Bit more about Stein Frankenstein's adventures in the DC universe.
But I will tell you, I hate to tell you,
Seven Soldiers Victory is his best story. I mean, Grant
Morrison is anyone's best story. By this, Frankie does get
his own solo series, which is a first for Frankenstein
in a comic book universe. And we're going to talk

(01:27:46):
about all that right for this, and we're back geek
history lesson talking about Stein Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Frankenstein's in the DC universe has got a big honkin sword.
He was a member of the Seven Soldiers of Victory.
And now we've come to his appearance in the New
fifty two a little.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Bit abusa about it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:06):
Actually, would you like to explain what the New fifty
two is?

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
So in twenty eleven, DC was like Man Continuity's out
of control. It worked in nineteen eighty five, Let's do
it again, except Batman in Green Lantern. Everyone's got more
lines on their costume.

Speaker 2 (01:28:20):
Here you go. Well, and they're rebooted back to their area.
Wally West missed his mom, he ran back. He left
out the crucial linement and reset the universe because Frankenstein
basically only appeared like four years before that happened. Yeahyeah,
nothing changes. Oh so, but he does get a Soulo book.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Whew.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
Frankenstein Age in the Shade. Yeah, now, this is basically
the same Frankenstein as the Seven Soldiers of Victory. In
this one, Frankie joined Shade in World War Two along
with his bride as they fought through many wars throughout
the century, and it has revealed that the two were
once a loving couple until they tried to have a
son through technology provided by Shade as a reward for

(01:29:00):
their efforts. Now, Frankie is very skeptical because he knew
his dad and he's like, I don't know about those guys. Yeah,
and the bride is generational trauma, and the bride is
very much.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
Like, we're going to have a baby.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
So they do have one, and the newborn is called
the Spawn of Frankenstein. Might sound, so that's a nice callback. Now,
the Spawn of Frankenstein is actually a true blue monster.
He manages to break free of their holding facility, the
spawn of Frankenstein's unstable It's rabbid. The Bride tries the
calm her child down, but as soon as the Sun
gets a hold.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
Of her, he tries to kill her.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Now Frankie, being a monster killer as a reflex, just
kills the child because it's a monster sure and saves
the Bride. And after this incident, this is the Bride
that kills the Bride. In Frankenstein's relationship, this is what
breaks them apart, and moving forward, they agree to work together,
but their relationship is done so this is hinted at

(01:29:57):
in the Seven Soldiers of Victory series, and series tells
you the story of like, oh, this is what actually
broke them apart, and this is the reason why she
will never get back together with Frankenstein because he literally
chopped their kids head off. So we get to see
also in this version, Frankie lead an updated version of
the Creature Commando's cool and in this era of the two,

(01:30:19):
the Creature Commando's are a byproduct of Shade with new
characters like Nina Mazerski and the Gi Robot, and if
these names sound familiar. This is the team that will
be featured in the animated Creature Commando show. As far
as I know, I see.

Speaker 1 (01:30:32):
As what we know right now at the time of
this recording and such as.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
And after that, Frankenstein showed up in a couple of spots,
generally to fight monsters. After the House of Mystery crashed
down onto the ground in Just League Dark, John Constantine
called Frankenstein to come pick them up, and John also
invited Frankenstein to join the Just League Dark, to which
he accepted. And you know because he said, now, my
relationship with Shade has been pretty rough. They haven't been
given me good benefits.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
I'm done with this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:57):
He stayed with the Just League Dark until it disbanded
at the end of the New fifty two and during
the DC Rebirth era, Frankenstein in his bride showed up
in Superman and eventually tracked down an alien called Kroof
And after they get him, Frankenstein decides that he wants
to start a new chapter with Lady Frankenstein and he
shows her a ring as a start and Lady Frankenstein

(01:31:18):
rejects the offer, says, I don't want to be your wife,
and when Superman tries to cheer him out, he literally says,
this is what Superman says. This is what Superman says.
Superman says, I don't know what to say, wow, because
he can't imagine this lady being so cold to him,
and Frankenstein just responds there's nothing left to say and
just leaves.

Speaker 1 (01:31:38):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
And so, you know, to end our lesson of Frankenstein,
I think there's only one thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:31:49):
Action figure spotlight Ashley.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
Yeah, so this is the only Frankenstein in the DC
universe that actually had an action figure made of himself.
Todd McFarland in his infinite wisdom because he loves monsters
and bats and where we made an action figure of
this version of Frankenstein. Wow, it's actually a very cool action.

Speaker 1 (01:32:12):
A picture of it to Ashley right now.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
I like his big bet. You can get it on
Amazon right now. I don't want it everybody for twenty
six bucks. So apparently a lot of people comes with
a sword face sculpt is actually very nice. It comes
with a you know, like a little like Sergeant Pepper's
type vest.

Speaker 1 (01:32:26):
It's a good look at if you're into this character
or you're into the look of this character. You're in
a monster It's honestly, it's a great action figer. But
I mean it's McFarlane, like they never miss He's one
of the few.

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
I was actually quite surprised that they made an action
figure of this kind of obscure character.

Speaker 1 (01:32:40):
I could see Todd being like, Oh, I like it,
We're gonna make him. He likes moms do an action figure.
He did, you know in the nineties he had like
an action figure a series called like Movie Monsters. They
did like the Wolfman and the t one thousand and
all weird things.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
So you can still find them some places.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
So actually I want to in this with you.

Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
Know, a discussion. Sure, you know, do you like the
approach that Grant Morrison took with this character in the team?
I mean, I guess here's a question like this, Was
it a mistake to give Frankenstein his own series? Should
he just kind of sort of been a random or Okay,

(01:33:18):
I'm trying. I'm just giving you several questions. Here's question,
do you like Grant Morrison's version better after everything I've
told you? Or do you think it should just be random?
I know you always said you don't. Yeah, but if
we're gonna have we have to have a Frankenstein in
DC universe, apparently it's inevitability. Would you rather it just
sort of be random one offs that are sort of
like Mary Shelley or Bad in Robin's Book, or it's

(01:33:39):
this Grant Morrison version.

Speaker 1 (01:33:40):
No, And I appreciate framing the question that way, because
if we have to have a Frankenstein, I do appreciate
doing a lot of creative ways to integrate him into
the genre and to give him more than just the
tragic story that he came from. I still don't think
he should be in the DC Comics universe, but that's
I think that's where great Morrison's genius shines through is

(01:34:02):
their ability to take these They're not just there's a
lot of creators who are just remix artists. They can
take something and they can update what was cool about
them from the fifties to what's cool about them in
the twenty twenties. Grant Morrison can take something that has
absolutely nothing and imbue it with a like he's like
Victor Franks, and imbue it with the life of its own.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
And I respect that, even if I don't want.

Speaker 1 (01:34:24):
To read it so yes, I guess is the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
Yes, but no, I would rather it be this version
as well. Yeah, instead of the fact that I like
the idea that this is like one of the and
again it's Graham Morrison's why I think it works. He's
a great writer. Is I'd rather have the version where
he's an integral he has his history with this universe. Yeah, yeah,
instead of it just being like, oh, here's another Frankenstein monster.

(01:34:49):
Here's another retelling of what you were back to the
nineteenth century, and we made another version of Victor Frankken.

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
I don't want that, certainly.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
Okay, So here's the other thing, Sue, because this is
our second frank Stay episode. But what do you think
it is about Frankenstein's monster that is so appealing that
we are continuously bringing him up in the DC universe.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
I think it's a fear of becoming that like, it
would be horrible if you woke up and that was
your life, Like if you had died and then you
were re Like, that's a scary idea. That's a compelling idea,
but it's also the idea of human beings are obsessed
with legacy. It's why a lot of human beings are
obsessed with pro creating, and this is the omen, this

(01:35:29):
is the demon spawn. It's like, well, what if the
thing you created is evil? And I think that's a
very compelling story to people as well. And then, as
we talked a lot about last week, it's the visual.
It's a very recognizable visual. Everyone has a shorthand for
who Frankenstein is. Even if you open up Agents of
Shading and you're like, well, this isn't what I thought
it was. Your baseline of knowledge is enough for entry.

(01:35:52):
But I think a lot of the reason, I think
a lot of the appeals the aesthetic above everything else.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's more because the DC
universe is more supernatural the Marvel universe. Because the Marvel
Universe is intrinsically based in science. Yeah, but it's rife
with God, it is, it is, but it's it's more
science based than the DC universe. The DC universe is
more mythology based. It is. I mean again, you look.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
At that, this is another grammarst and thing. You look
at the Justice League and it's the Greco Roman and
Panthea and Anthon. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Yeah, and again, like the the supernatural stuff just works
better in the DC universe, so I think it makes
sense that there is a DC.

Speaker 1 (01:36:24):
I don't mind magic in the DC universe as much,
but I hate I pretty much hate magic in the
Marvel universe outside of Doctor Strange, but I think Doctor
Strange should be It's a insble.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
I like Doctor Strange as being the only magic guy. Yeah,
we're to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:38):
He's the one that they have to call in and
deal with it. I just want to add, in case
anyone is curious about the upcoming Creature Commando series, David
Harbor is doing the voice of Eric Frankenstein, so it
seems like we're getting sort of a melding of characters.
And in dearra Varma is the bride oh interesting. You
may remember her from such things as Game of Thrones
and the upcoming Dune Prophecy. Interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
So I wonder if we're kind of doing the melding
here of Patchwork and Graham Morrison's right now, that is
what it again, Even Harper would be a good voice
for this Frankstin character.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
This is just for me looking at the IMDb, no
other context, but I just thought we should shout that
out before we before we wrapped up, all right, everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:37:15):
Yeah, If you want to get some more recommended reading
on Frankenstein, go to GHL geekashows in dot com slash
recommended reading. Ashley will put up the I will four
volumes of seven Soulds Victory.

Speaker 1 (01:37:24):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Probably put in the shade.

Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
They'll be a yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:37:28):
But now it's time to go to the honor roll
where that is. If you go over to Apple Podcasts
and you leave us a five star review, we will
read your review on the air for thanking you for
helping us in the Apple algorithm Ashley who is joining
the list this week.

Speaker 1 (01:37:41):
Joining us today is sleep Lover twenty fifteen, a plus
user name my friend, they say fantastic. I love this
podcast As someone who just recently found an appreciation of podcasts, welcome.
I was very happy to find one that I could
connect to and held my attention. Ashley and Jason have
such great chemistry. I was very surprised that I served
with Jason in the Kansas Army National Guard and subsequently

(01:38:02):
was on the same deployment in the early two thousands.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
Holy cow, what's your name?

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
Who is this? My hat's off both of your insights,
I think this was my hat's off to both of
your insights into the world of comics and all things geek.
So Sleep Lover twenty fifteen. Thank you for your service
and also thank you for your kind review. Send an email,
send us an indol whoever person that I knows, ever
you are, I'm welcome to the teacher's line. I wonder

(01:38:28):
who it is. Who do you remember from your title
launchary life people?

Speaker 2 (01:38:32):
But it could be a multitude of people from Southeast
Kansas or wherever they live, right, yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:38:39):
Well, thank you for listen.

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
Very cool.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
Don't forget to subscribe and download this podcast wherever you
can find us on all of the podcast apps. Ashley,
where can they find key history of Us?

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
And on social media you can find us on Instagram
and threads.

Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
Come of Threads.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
Threats is really nice right now, Let's enjoy it while
it stays nice nice for like a year exactly at
Geek History Lesson Ashley, where can they find you on Threads?
Me at Ashley v. Robinson, the same place you can
find me literally anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
And you find me at job on this jaw I
I in And now it's time for what have we
learned today we don't have a sound effect for yet,
so we're just gonna make up. What have we learned
today about DC comics Frankenstein. Well, it turns out that
Batman and Robin are not just crime fighters but literary
muses too. Who knew the bat Time Machine had a
setting for inspire Mary Shelley. And we've also learned that

(01:39:27):
in some ways Frankenstein is the ultimate team player because
he'll join your seven soldiers team, but you'll never meet
You'll never have to see him, And in some ways,
isn't that the best coworker of all?

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
That's what all of us work from home, girlies a lot,
your best friend who is in the trenches with you
and you never have to see him.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
That's very funny, Very well do so, thank you so
much for listening to this spooky probably the last Spookye
season g GHL, because scheduling has gotten in the way.

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
I'm Jason, and I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson and Professor Jason.
Would you please dismiss the class DC Comics fire Back

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