November 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Out in cinemas and now streaming worldwide, the culmination of Guillermo Del Toro's creative work, Frankenstein introduces a new generation of moviegoers to Victor and The Creature. This week on Geek History Lesson, Ashley is joined by TikTok sensation Fallon Prinzivalli to give a full SPOILER FILLED review.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Fallon, you are very very good at predicting trends. Did
you know that Frankenstein reimagined through the lens of a
fairy tale was what the world needed this year?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I mean I personally did. I'm a huge Girmeal del
Toro fan, so I was a very hyped for this film.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
We definitely need it this year, and I feel like
it's getting pretty good reviews in its early streaks from theaters,
so I'm glad to see that it really was what
the world needed to kind of get us through the
end of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Here ooh and as we were throttling toward the end
of the year, this podcast is alive and I'm going
to say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I
am Ashal Victoria Robinson. You may have noticed that we
have someone who does not sound like Jason Man this
with us this week, and that is because he is
still hanging out at you Hop with a very famous doctective.
(01:02):
So instead, today we are joined by a Red Puff
marketing director, content Queen and TikTok Sensation Fallen prince Avelli.
Thank you so much for joining us on Geek History
Lesson today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
We have been slowly but surely building up toward the
release of Germo del Torres Frankenstein, and I said, there's
nobody I would rather have than miss Ballen, who is
certainly our most fashionable guest of the entire year of GHL.
But it's mostly I'll say this with my entire chess
as someone who writes comics, it's mostly comic book writers.
(01:39):
So the bar is low, and you have update it
for everybody going forward. Wow, quite the breeze fallen. You
have not been on before to talk about Frankenstein in
any capacity, So before we dive into our thoughts on
the film specifically, I would love to ask you what
your relationship with Frankenstein as a concept and a franchise
(02:01):
has been like.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, when I was growing up, my dad was very
much into horror and monster films, and so I grew
up with this background. Like I think one of the
first movies I ever watched as a kid was Stephen
King's It, the one that was in like what six
hours long? And I remember just like watching Tales from
the Crypt with my dad and my mom, and eventually
(02:26):
like Vincent Price Films and all the old school monster films,
and so I grew up with really a love of monsters.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And one of the.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Things I especially love about gerrilmal del Toro is the
dichotomy of monsters and man in his films a lot
of the time where he talks about how the man
is actually the monster and where and kind of his
monsters hold up a mirror to man. And so I
knew when he was going to come out with this
film that it would be incredible, because I've been saying
(02:54):
for the longest time since The Shape of Water that
you just need to get him all of the all.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of the universal monsters and just let him do whatever
he wants with them.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
But I have I have had a I actually just
read Frankenstein for the first time in my life. I
just finished it right before I saw the movie, and
I really really loved it. I don't know why it
took me so long to read it, but my love
for Frankenstein really just comes from my love of monsters,
and he is one of the greats and one of
the classics Reade's Monster.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Reading Frankenstein makes me feel like I will never be
as cool or as talented as Mary Shelley who wrote
the first draft at eighteen and it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You're like, what am I doing all my life?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
No, seriously, and the fact that it was basically on
a dare. Yeah, I think it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
They're like, what do I do on a dare?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
On it?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'll make a dumb video and put it on the
Popper's Instagram.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It's fine, Everything's fine, exactly right, We're successful.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I would love to ask you as well, because we
have a running gag with some of our past guests,
and i'd be interested to know where you followed this.
What is your favorite Universal Monster movie?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's a really good book.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I know, there's so many of them, are so good.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I know.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I probably have to say Dracula just because my heart
of hearts, it's always been with the Vampire, so.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's gonna be my favorite.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You are the first one in team Dracula, so really yeah, yeah,
we're it's very much a creature from the Black Lagoon,
the Invisible Man fight here on the pod. So I
like that we have a new contender for what movie.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I get it. I totally get it. My I think
my heart will just.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Always be with Dracula, so I have to go there
knowing you. I will say, I'm unsurprised to hear that.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I feel like when I was little, yeah, and there
were like a creek in my room and I would
get really really scared. I would just pretend it was
a vampire and I would feel better. So that gives
you a little insight into my brain.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I guess that is completely adorable. Okay, We're going to
charge a head into Frankeets Sign territory. So I want
to say for anyone listening, this is a full spoiler.
We're going into everything. It's November third, the movies out.
If you perceived this is on you girl, Okay. And
if you want an overview on Frankenstein, either in DC
comics or in larger pop culture history, we do have
(05:16):
two episodes on that. They came out last year, and
the two episodes preceding this one is an examination of
Frankenstein and the Bride of Frankenstein nineteen thirty one and
nineteen thirty five, and then Kenneth Brown is Mary Shelley's
Frankentzstein just my favorite title for a movie of all time.
And they will give you an absolute overview into what
you need to know about all things frank as seidn Fallin.
(05:37):
You tease us a little bit that you are a
Guillermo del Toro fan, but what are some of your
favorite movies that he's made.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
So what actually got me really into ghermal Del'suro was
Crimson Peak. That actually came out in twenty fifteen on
my birthday, and I dragged all of my friends to go.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It was gothic romance. It had Tom Hidlson and Charlie Hannel.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It could not have been a more perfect film for me,
and I loved it, but it did not do well
in the box office, which is really disappointing. And so
I kind of took that my love of Girmaldo's Wuorrel
and that film and kind of watched the rest of
his backlog.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
There's still some I have not seen yet, but I
love the Shape of Water.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I love what he did with the creature from the
Black Lagoon essentially. And then I don't know if you've
seen Pinocchio, which is not really a monster movie, but
he really did put that dark Gothic spin on it
while making the character of Pinocchio really really human, right,
that's kind of based on the story. But I just
love his films and what he brings in, and I
(06:38):
feel like a lot of what he puts in his
films really speak to my heart and my love of
monsters and kind of seeing the good in those monsters
and the light in the dark. I think that's really important.
Like we keep saying, especially with how this year is going.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's funny because I did not see Pinocchio, and now
you are the second person in a row whose opinion
I really respect and trust so good. I think I'm
gonna be converted. I think I'm gonna have to check
it out, cause I was like, I don't want to
watch him do like not scary things. I know, my
favorite Gamma del Toro is Pans Labyrinth. Yes, I'm also
(07:13):
a big apologist for Pacific Rim because I love big
dumb monsters fighting. But I think Shape of Water, Shape
of Water or Pans if I was going to be like,
subjectively his best one, I think that's probably where I'd
fall u. I find that a lot of his movie
is also champion the idea of what if the monster
was hot? Yes, yeah, yeah, it's like no notes on that,
(07:38):
but I think this particular film is of is maybe
the clearest example of that. I'm gonna I'm gonna leave
off discussing what the creature looks like, and in the
particular casting of him, which which I will say I was,
I was a convert on as well for a little.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Bit the same.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, I was like, do I want the hot guy
from Euphoria? It turns out I did.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I really I love what they surprise you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh I am. I'm thrilled to be wrong about something
like if I'm like, oh, that looks dumb, and then
everyone tells me like, no, it's not. It's really great,
and then I find myself moved by it. There's nothing
better than being wrong because things are actually great.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
The movie relies on Mary Shelley's framing device of the
Sea Captain a lot more than other classic interpretations of it.
I did not know he was going to be played
played by Lars Michelson. And then every time we kind
of return to those scenes and to him in particular
to bookend the different narratives, I was really excited to
(08:38):
get back to see I just think he's so great.
There's a lot of clever use of non English dialogue
in the movie. And I really like that for the opening.
It's very unsettling and off putting to like an English
languagepaking audience and be like, oh, okay, maybe I don't
understand everything. And I think the interstitials do really good
with the pasic. Now, the run time is two and
(09:00):
a half hours long, which I think some folks might
bulk at. But what did you think about the pacing
of the film.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I enjoy a long film.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
One of the things my fiance always says is like,
movies should be ninety minutes and that's it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That's the perfect.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Why think that was the same thing.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I will say this, So we saw it in a
private theater for my birthday with some of my friends,
who were only like eight of us in the theater,
so we could be a little rowdy if we wanted to.
And I will say, and this is obviously a spoiler,
but when they got to the point where it switched
to be the story from the creature's perspective, yeah, our
theater cheered, Like we all cheered and got really excited
(09:43):
because I didn't know if he was going to do
that or not. And I feel like that's what for
me made the runtime. Okay, it's definitely. There were a
few scenes that I was like, eh, he lost me
for like a second, but then he pulled me right
back in. So I think if the story wasn't split,
that run time would have been way too long. But
I think the way that he told the story, he
really did it justice both to the book and to
(10:06):
his own interpretation on it because he changed some of
those things.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So it did not bother me.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
But again, I am like a germal Delt who were
a worshipper, so I don't think. I think it could
have been terrible, and I probably still would have loved it.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I have to say that I am someone who is
pretty staunched, like the book didn't do this. I was
an absolute nightmare watching his Dark Material series. I was like,
they got to bear best. But I do think because
we've seen so many on screen interpretations, that the changes
that were made, particularly in Victor's early life, I really
(10:42):
really enjoy. I liked when we got to see his
upbringing in Switzerland that we got a lot of stuff
in French language, and I will say as a French
speaker there, French was very good. I am always surprised
when they don't translate certain lines like, there were a
couple throws lines and I was like, people don't know
what that means. You should translate this for them. That
(11:05):
would be a kind thing to do. I think Charles
Dance as Evil Daddy Frankenstein always an incredible choice. It
was perfect, great job, and I'm obsessed with the red
outfit that Victor's mother was then when.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
She does that, Yeah, he does that in a lot
of his film He did that in Crimson Peak as well. Yeah,
that was one of the things. I read a review
and the way that they described it was it was
Shelley's skeleton, but the flesh around it was del Toro's.
And I think that's the perfect way to describe it.
And one of the things that really stood out to
(11:38):
me was the use of red with the mother.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
He does that in quite a few of his films.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think also the costume and the set designs was
very del Toro. That kind of man versus monster was
very del Toro. But I think he could have you know,
this was like his life's work, this film, and so
I think he could have that could be direct inspiration
that he got from Shelley in all of his other films,
which I also thought was very cool, and then that
gothic romance aspect was very del Toro.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That was obviously not in the book itself.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Have you seen It's maybe a tweet or a thread.
I don't know anymore because I just want to call
them all tweets. They will ask to reach my heart.
But there was a post that someone said that Gamba
del Toro has the creativity of a Victorian woman with
a wasting disease, and he said, I believe I do.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes, I did see that perfect and I was like,
that's why I like him so much.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
She's like just streaming and fantasizing about like a monster.
Romance is what it feels like. Sometimes it speaks to
my soul.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
What did you think about not seeing Elizabeth in these
early scenes, because she is even though she has a
lot less agency in the books than in film adaptations.
I'm always looking for her. I'm always interested to see
and when they cast me a goth I was like, great,
show me her, and I was surprised to not see
her in these early scenes me too.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I think that's one of the changes he made that
I actually really liked by the man, because well, one,
I love that he wasn't talking about marrying his cousin
and then the other one. And I do feel like
it gave her more of a storyline, and it added
to the story, and it added to her role later on,
(13:16):
so I feel like it definitely paid off towards the end.
So yeah, I was surprised by that too, and then
when I realized kind of where he was going with it,
I actually I feel like I actually preferred that and
how she interacted with the creature.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Because there is a there's a scene in the Kenneth
Brenda nineteen ninety four film where they're like about to
make out and she goes, we'll do what brothers and
sisters do, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Like, really, no, please, I don't know a different time,
and but like this this is it's really it's really uncomfortable,
and I want to I wanted to believe that it
was intended to be uncomfortable, but I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Being the benefactor's daughter is definitely the better storyline for
me personally, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also liked the change of making
her if definitely not a scientist, because I think even
at this time women would not have been educated, but
like interested in the world of science that made her
a very fun literary foil for ficture.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Age.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Let's talk about when Oscar Isaac finally comes into this.
I love his big dumb hat, I love his big
dumb hair, I love the unnecessary bath scenes and nudity. Man,
he is so good in this part. But there was
never any doubt.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Was there. No, not at all. Wait, we knew he
would be perfect for this.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And actually I went to an event where gimmeldl Tour
was talking a little bit about this process, and he
said that he met with Oscar before all of this
and they had like a four hour meeting, which he
said he doesn't usually do, and at the end of
it he looked at Oscar and said, I am going
to write the part of Victor Frank and sign for you.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So when he wrote the film, he wrote it.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
With Oscar Isaac in mine, which I think is a
really beautiful thing and is why he placed so well
into it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was literally written for him.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I also love the photo that Giermo shared where he's
sitting on the set in the window and it's intentionally
framed to look like that very famous piece of Bernie
Wrightson art. And I was like, oh, man, I can
only imagine the references that these two guys must have
just been lobbing at each other back, like I just
want to be a fan on the wall while they're
nerding out about all the same stuff together.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I always said if I could have like one wish,
if I had like a dying wish, it would be
actually to gather like five of I don't know, historical
or celebrity figures and have a dinner at giambal del
Toro's house, which is called I think it's called bleak House,
or I think along those lines, Yeah, which I really.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Want to do. And that's still that would be my
dying wish if I ever got one, and.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Be like, I'm going to be touching the wallpaper that
you have from the original Haunted mansion. I'm so sorry,
I have no argument.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Maybe some of yourself will disappear.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It was the same, yeah, yeah, I just imagine you
being lowered into a sarcophagus with like a various gearabl
del Toro, oh good in your hands, exactly. I also
think the sequence where Victor goes to school and sets
a PI laboratory and meets the benefactor, who we'll talk
about in just a second is really just kind of
(16:16):
speaks the most to what you were saying about the
design being like man versus monster, and a very clear
illustration of that, And it made me really appreciate all
of the designers and the props masters and the pas
who would have had to go around and source all
of these incredibly beautiful images because the sequence where we're
starting to develop the idea of what the creature is
(16:36):
going to become is really grizzly if you think about
it logically. But at no point did I find this
movie like gross or felt like I had to look
away from the screen, because it's all presented in such
a stunning fashion, like particularly the corpse whose back is
flayed open that we've seen also in a bunch of
promotional art, like the moment where that thing life's up
(16:58):
in screams is horrifying, but it's still an incredibly impressive feat.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Absolutely, and he does he does gore so beautifully, which
is a weird thing to say, but it's it's very
artistic the way he does it, and I'm fascinated by
kind of his process because he's worked with the same
team for years, so they really know his style, and
I do, like we said, with you know, putting the
Mother in Red, it really carries over like a theme
(17:24):
in some of his films, and I like that a lot.
I think it's very artistic, and it's very visually appealing,
and I feel like, especially in an age where it's
so hard to keep attention, there's always something to look
at and always something catching your eye in his films.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Particularly in an age where you know, you and I
are I don't know for the same we're very close
in age. Yeah, we came up. We came up in
an age where eli roth and hostile was kind of
sense it all. Yeah, Like it's it's so nice to
see the same theme explored in a less complete horrified
in a whimsical way. Dare I say yes?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And that's the romance side of that gothic, right, Yeah.
It's very beautiful, it's very visually appealing. It it leans
into the magical in a way that I think, you know,
obviously other horror movies don't do that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You mentioned a little bit earlier the introduction of Christoph
Waltz's character Heinrich Harlander, who they referred to as Harirr Harlander.
I thought it was Hollander for a long time, so
oh he's Dutch. How fun? How interesting? Maybe he's an
ancestor of Tom who is now a Superman. When he
first showed up, I was like, who is this man?
He looks so familiar to me because of the way,
(18:44):
and it wasn't until he spoke, oh no, he is
so good in this and just giving Victor somebody else
to speak to who's not an assistant, like who's not
Igor where they're on the same power plane. I thought
was a really really interesting choice. I'm assuming because you're
smarter than me, that you knew he was going to
(19:05):
be in this film.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I actually didn't.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I was wondering who that character because they were going
through the characters and I was like, who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Completely new?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But I think it was a great choice, and I
think they couldn't have picked a better person to play
him either. But I think that was really really interesting
and I think it adds to his story is so
interesting too, because you start with he's a benefactor and
I think he's in it for the money, and then
you know that kind of turns towards the end and
you find out exactly why he's so interested in Victor
(19:34):
doing this and running this experience experiment and making it work.
And I thought that was a really interesting take on
man and kind of.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
What's the one I'm looking for?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You just like what you would do out of desperation,
what you would fund out of desperation for your life,
And so in Victor creating life, it was because someone
was trying to save theirs, and so I thought that
was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I think they also both serve to illustrate the hubris
of like human beings, because Victor obviously is trying to
play God, which, as we know narratively, is the ultimate
sin that you can commit, particularly you know, in a
very a time where Christianity would have been very much
what everybody in England was practicing. I love the scene,
(20:23):
and I really usually don't go for scenes where a
man is urinating as a power move, but I think
it was again very elegantly and eloquently done. I thought
that was a fantastic scene where he kind of gives
Victor the ultimatum, both in terms of the experiment and
Elizabeth ultimately like it's a bit it's always a bit
(20:44):
gross when the woman is offered up as a reward
but here it's very intentionally done something Oh okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Fine, it's very much a boss move on his part.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yes, I also am glad that there is a very
obvious attraction between Victor and Elizabeth. But the confessional scene
is so good and it's so funny where he thinks
he's trapped her but actually she's trapped him. I'm glad
that she has the agency to recognize what's going on
and call him out on it. At the same time.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, I think that that kind of sets up her
whole story arc. That's exactly what she does, you know,
until the end, I mean even I guess we'll get
to that end. Oh yeah, but anyway, but yeah, I
like that as well. I think that was really smart,
and I think it just sets up that Elizabeth is
is much smarter than he is, even though he doesn't
(21:38):
see it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, well, I mean men, right, yeah, not all men?
Hashtag guess all men? As this movie definitely seems to
want to tell us can we can we talk about
the tower and how cool the tower is that Victor
Poppen I love. My favorite detail is that it's aes
aquest vita, which is water is life in Latin nobody
(22:00):
translates it for you. You either know or you don't,
but just such a good subtle detail. Yeah now I know, Yeah, yeah.
My Latin and high school finally paid off for something.
Cannot only read religious texts. I could read random things.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
At a gear with a toal movie.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
What did you think about the visual when we discovered
the tower for the first time.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They have a habit of creating spaces that I want
to move into, and I'm in the scheme. Uh So,
I loved it and it, like I said, Crimson Peak
is one of my favorite films, and it's very reminiscent.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's it's the same thing like it's.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Called uh Allerdale Hall in Crimson Peak, but it's very
much both. Both spaces are a little bit decrepit but
also beautiful, and it's it has two people who are
desperately trying to save or in Frankenstein's case, create life
in these spaces. And so I think they do a
(22:55):
beautiful job of again that artistry of taking something supposed
to be a little bit spooky, a little bit scary,
a little bit horror filled, and making it really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
My only note on it was I was very taken
with all of the leaf imagery. I love the lean
falling in and particularly when they make their way down
to the creature and he makes you gifts. One to
Elizabeth's very beautiful. But the whole time, I was like,
it would be so cold in there. It was so
cold in there. It was all I could think.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, I keep referencing this, But in Crimson Peak too,
it starts actually at one point snowing through the Yeah.
So it's something he likes to do a lot, and
I wish, I wish I knew had some backstory on that.
I need to, like, I don't know, ask it the
next time I go to an event where he's doing
a Q and A.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
All we have to do is bring him to one
of the future read pop shows, which will be so easy.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm listen.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I keep I keep asking, I said, Eddie, when is
he going to come to me?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Or comic gun?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I look, I think we can get him not to
shop up too much, but you can get him also
inside the tower, I think we get the most obvious
Crimson Peak illusion, which is definitely contender for my favorite
nightgown scene of all time. When Elizabeth and William, I
want to say I'm not going to talk a lot
(24:16):
about William unless you really want to, But I do
think it's a thankless part, and I think the actor
does a very good job playing the stiff less interesting.
He's not necessarily intentionally unlikable brother, but he's just not
as compelling. But I think he does a good job
(24:38):
with a part that is really, frankly, not that interesting
on the page.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I agree he had it as much screen time as
he needed to, yes, to keep.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The story moving well said, but they finally show up
and they're like, hey, bro, what have you been doing here?
And then Elizabeth goes down into the basement and finds
the creature. But I absolutely loved how it's It's sheer
to the point of being see through but without feeling exploitative.
And if somebody on Etsy wants to make me one,
(25:09):
just just let a girl know. But I wanted to
know how much your yeah, how much your little Crimson
people loving heart loved that sequence in particular, I.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Know it's beautiful and particular, like you talked about it before,
where it was just such a heartfelt scene.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And I think not to not.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
To shift gears completely, but Jacob Elordi is so childlike
in that moment, and it just it was just like
breathtaking and beautiful and to see kind of where he
plays out. I know we're talking about costumes, but I
was thinking about that and my heart started swooning.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So, yeah, it's interesting because the the birth scene that
I always call them the it's a live scene. Even
though I really appreciate the restraint of not having Victor
say it's a lie in this version of the film.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Do you know what's interesting about that too? Is he
he says, what's the quote he uses? He used when
he finishes not instead of it's alive. When he finishes
building the creature, he says it is finished, which is
and I think a callback to how Mary Shelley was
really influenced by Paradise Lost.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yes, and I find that really fascinating.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Some of like the Christian imagery that was in it too,
when they brought him up and it was very clear
he was on a crucifix like the fixture, and so
I think that's fascinating, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There are also moments where and I want to believe
this is intentional, where and later on when the creature
is walking in the woods and he he's kind of
not walking properly. It's very much like like watching a
toddler walk, but he does. And I think he's in
these I think he's intentionally hitting these poses that are
(26:49):
christ like from Renaissance era and Victorian era art. But
I just I can't imagine how you would how choreographed
every inch of your performance would have to be to
hit that. But as I was watching it, I was like, oh,
this reminds me like a lot of things that I've
seen at the Loop or the Museum over time and
(27:11):
h but you know, maybe he is choreographed within an
inch of his life. I certainly don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
He surprised me so much I would not put it
past him.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
What Okay, we can we let's let's just talk about him.
Uh what did you know him from? Had you seen
him in anything before you've seen frank Stein?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It was literally just euphoria.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So when they cast him, I was like, all right, okay,
I guess he's tall, so yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Know look and and no, it's not that I think
he's bad on euphoria, just like there's nothing likable or
redeeming in that character to kind of yeah, clutch On,
I think especially job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hard to admit.
But I was like, as as somebody who at any
point has ever had a teenage boy beaming to them.
(27:59):
Maybe I'm just too triggered. Yeah, the performance, but I
was the same thing. I was like, okay, like the
hawk diy from Vitoria, like, I guess, uh, you know,
prove me wrong, and he really does. Have you seen
the National Theater Lives production of Frankenstein where it's been
at it's Cumberbatch and Johnny Lee Miller and they swap.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I have actually I watched that.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Oh gosh, I think when it's in like twenty fourteen,
so I have any Yeah, but yeah, I did see
that one.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Because his physical performance, particularly when he's first birthed and
Victor takes him down into the basement, which becomes his
sort of holding cell.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
It real.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
He really reminded me of what they were doing in that.
And I don't know if it's a direct lift or
if in this modern age that's like the logical turn
for that type of performance, but I was like, oh,
what he was doing with his hands really reminded me
of their shared performance as the creature in that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, now that you mentioned, and I could really see that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And I remember Cumberbatch because I am obsessed with him
giving an interview where he said that doing that show
gave him plant or fasciitis in his feet from all
slow way he was holding his feet, and so I
was like, I hope this young man.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
And I hope he's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
He was okay on the red carpet, so I think
I think he got he got through Unscape.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh my gosh. The picture of him and Oscar Isaac
on the red carpet where he looks like he's seventy
five feet tall, is so funny to me because I
forget that Oscar Isaac is a short gg.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, it's so good. What I loved about this too
is Gamela.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
At the event, I was was talking about how they
booked Jacob for this role based on his eyes, and
that the makeup team or you know, the costume design
team that was creating the monster was actually creating it
for Andrew Garfield, who dropped out like six weeks before
they were.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Start film member.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I did not remember that. Also, when they said that,
I tried, I had already seen the movie and I
tried to picture Andrew Garfield in this role, and I
just like, I can't it with I was like, I
just feel like Jacob al already wound up being so
perfect for this role.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I can't picture anyone else in it now.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
But they said they cast it based on his eyes,
and they were freaking out, and and Girmalto Toros said
it was the best, best thing that could have happened,
because he knew that sometimes in those moments that happens
because it's the best thing for the film. So he
had to like calm down his team and then they
just subceeded, and they wound up getting an incredible creature.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I mean, as someone with zero chill, I can also
understand that, like, what are you talking about? Everything's gonna
be horrible, But it does make the performance even more
impressive because I am a creature apologist. Uh. He is
the best part of these interpretations of the story time
(30:42):
and time again. And I was like, do I want
a sexy Frankenstein? And it turns out I do, and
I'm very into it, and I but I do think
it's a very interesting, I guess, a meta modern take
on this myth because Borskarloff is the most famous and
(31:03):
probably will always be the most famous version of the creature.
And so to do an antithetical to be like we
are building Anna Donnis intentionally, I thought was fast and
like all the way back to the scene where they're
hunting for supplies on the battlefield.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like it makes it the story
a little bit more real, you know, it makes it
feel like, you know, someone probably could have tried this
and did this. It feels less almost less monster like. Yeah,
and I think it does give the creature a lot
more of that human feeling that you wind up having
by the end, because he starts out as a child,
he does become a little monstrous. And then I love
(31:43):
the theme of grace that's kind of woven into this
by the end yea, and kind of the arc that
they have I think is really beautiful. And I feel
like the way that he looks really lends to that
storyline very well.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Because I was confused initially when all he was saying
was Victor, because we know from the book that he's
highly intelligent and highly highly capable. And then of course,
the perfect, beautiful, flawless Elizabeth shows up and says, maybe
it's because that's the most important word to him, and
that's his whole world. And I I didn't cry when
I watched the film, but that was the moment where
(32:18):
you know, when you're like heart clenches yes, because if
you're having like an emotional response, I was like, oh, no,
am I gonna cry side? Is this gonna be the
thing that destroys me?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I know?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And then my heart fully swooned when the second word
he said was Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, I was like, ah, it's a great moment where
Victor is, uh, you know, he's trying to cover up
his mistakes and we know he's going to burn down
the castle because firebad is also a running theme of
all Frankenstein insternation. And he says, just say one other word,
and he says Elizabeth, and just the way Oscar Isaac
pauses for like a breath. It's such a small bit
(32:56):
of acting and it's so good. But I've been collecting
a lot of leaves recently, so him using a leaf
as a gift instead of a flower. I also was like, oh,
how very a tumunull of him.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And then did you notice this is actually going back
to costumes for a lot. Did you notice the sleeves
of her wedding dress mimic the brides?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yes, that was good. I was wondering because again in
Kenneth Brown as Mary Shelley's Frankatestide, and they fully make
Helenavonum Carter, who plays Elizabeth, she becomes the bride and
she and she is killed and then reincarnated in that film,
and I was like, oh, are we going to go
that far? Like I would have loved to see it,
(33:38):
but I admire the restraint to not fully do the bride.
And you know, Gary Elmo thought about it. You know
there was a draft of this where she fully brided
it out.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I know what, I want it so bad. I need
like the extended edition.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Or honestly, just make Bride with Mia Gough. You know,
I it doesn't have to be Cannon, doesn't have to
be a continuation like I will watch it. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Before we dive into the wedding completely, I do want
to talk a little bit about the creature's time in
the forest where he becomes the good spirit of the
forest and we get a revisit to the classic blind Man,
Blind Little Girl storyline. David Bradley consistently an underrated actor
in my opinion, because he usually plays bad guys but
(34:27):
so lovely. I want him to adopt me. I want
to live in his house.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I know that whole storyline, just like you talk about
that heart clenching moment, and it just I remember in
when I was reading the book, just like being able
to sympathize with the creature, just wanting to belong and
wanting that community and wanting a companion and finally finding
that with this family, but not being able to be
his true self or be involved.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
With them in the beginning was just like so heartbreaking
for me.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And I felt that way reading the novel and felt
the same way when I was watching it play out
on screen.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I also think, because I'm such an animal lover, you'll
just never convince me that wolves are scary. Yeah, So
that was the one the one time where I really
really felt bad, I guess was when he has the
showdown with the wolves at the end of that storyline,
and obviously they've they've caused a lot of destruction in
(35:20):
their own right, and they've taken out his friend, but
I was like, they're just wolves and wolves they didn't
they didn't know. I don't want to bite the wolves.
I was really nervous because they kind of show his
softness at his empathy where he's in the millhouse and
he's with all of the mice and the rats, and
they also become his friend. And I was like, I
(35:41):
swear to God, if he crushes one of these, I'm
gonna lose it. Like I'm good.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I'm so a little of mice and men.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I thought the design in this was also very strong,
making them much more Viking and sort of pagan inspired
down to there's all this imagery of the green Man
who is the harvest god and the Celtic god of plenty.
I was like, ooh, this is cool. Let's do war
witchcraft in this universe.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And it did so well. It did and it didn't feel.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Tacked on, and it didn't feel like, oh, okay, now
we're doing like some vaguely pagan imagery. It was just like, no,
this would be the fact of these people living at
this time in a remote location. But it did kick
my heart right in the nuts right before we did
the wedding, and I kind of think the wedding sequence
is my favorite sequence of the whole thing, even though
(36:38):
it comes right at the end. Again, very happy that
it was. It was not between Victor and Elizabeth that
made me really really happy. I man, I just thought
it was so beautiful. The wedding dress is incredible. It's
obviously a great homage, like you said, to Elsa Leanchester
as the bride and culminating it in Elizabe. This death,
(37:01):
I thought was so fascinating. What did you think about
giving the final blow to Victor.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I really think it speaks to that story of monster
versus man. In the end, it wasn't the monster who
killed her. It was the man, and it was the
man trying to play god, and then he tried to
blame it on the monster. I know what it did,
and I really that I think that's what and I'm
(37:30):
going to be getting a little bit too ahead, so
ring we go for it. But I think that's what's
so beautiful about Like I said, that's that storyline of
grace and one of the things that del Toro said
at this event where I talked to my keep speaking
to his own words. But you know, in those final moments,
the monster gave Victor, despite all he had done, grace
(37:54):
and forgiveness and those things in the world Delta said
are so scarce and it makes them very courage and
so I feel like it was so refreshing to see
how much emotion is in this story, especially when sometimes
the world is so afraid to experience these complex emotions.
And I think that's what makes the wedding scene from
(38:15):
that scene to the end of the story so beautiful too,
is he just.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Did this vile thing.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
He killed the one companion the monster could finally have,
and she wanted to go with him, and it just, like,
I don't know, it tore up my art strings in
the most beautiful way. And also, didn't you know it
teased that monster romance bit without actually giving it to me,
So I, yeah, you know, to find a fan fix
somewhere that I can read about it.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh, I guarantee you this is going to inspire a
whole chapter of archive of our own installments. There will
be there will be shippers of plenty for many, many
different possible pairings. I can see it already of my life.
I kind of think to what you're speaking about. It's
the trifecta of William's death, which I don't believe his
(39:04):
book canon, but it is him is real?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
The monster kills him right in the book.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And he's a child. I think he's like, still little,
isn't it. But it's William tells Victor you're a monster,
which this is the first interpretation where we've had that.
It's a very mad thing to do, but very satisfying.
And then it's in the in the final scenes, it's
Victor calling the creature his son, and then the creature
absolving Victor. I think really drives home what you're talking about,
(39:32):
with like the themes of grace and forgiveness and and
ultimately like choosing to be the better man, which with
Victor franksin the bar is truly in hell. So it's
not like Alex, but it's very, very, very elegantly done.
I loved laying Elizabeth out in the cave on the rock.
(39:54):
I loved when she saw the creature again that she
went to him immediately and and like you were saying,
they kind of tease that we're going to get I
was like, kiss. They did not. They did not kiss,
to my satisfaction, But I guess I guess that's what
a three is for. But the way the blood was
spilling into her dress and the way that it was
(40:16):
following behind them. I just I could only hope for
so beautiful and elegant a death in real life, frankly,
but I did think it was smart because if you're
shot in that part of your body, you don't die immediately.
That's a lie of movies. So I want to say
that was a good bit of science that she got to.
She got to have her final resting place and her
final words, and I liked that very very much, and
(40:39):
I liked the closure that we ultimately got in those
final scenes. And then it extends back to the Captain
Us played by Lars Michelson, allowing the creature to go
on with his life because it's implicit in a lot
of other incarnations that he is unkillable, but we've he's
(41:00):
very much Wolverine in this version, which is cool, but
also I think it's definitely sad or like there are
other incarnations of a immortality mythology where it's something to
be celebrated, and here it's it's definitely not something that
we're looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, that's something he asked for.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Before we kind of wrap up our discussion, is there
anything that we absolutely have to talk about that we've
sort of skipped over a move. It's a two and
a half hour movie. Folks were doing our very best.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Word no, I think.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Oh, I would love to end it with this quote
that that I actually wrote down in my notes up
while I was at this event. So Germo said that
there are things that you're here to say, and if
you find the song that you're meant to sing, you
do it beautifully.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And that's how he feels about this movie and this work.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
This is like a culmination of his life's work and
everything that has inspired him. And so I think that
reflects very beautifully and how he told this story. He
did it such justice. And so if you have not
seen it yet, you absolutely have to.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And I will say if you if you are someone
who is afraid, if you're like a scaredy cat, if
you can't do a lot of gore and violence, it
is it's very minimal. It's very much. I said this
at the beginning Frankenstein through a fairy Tale left.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I really want to encourage people to check because I
it's it's one of my favorite movies already. I will
say my entire chest fallin. We like to close out
our discussion on movies by saying who we thought was
the best actor, the best scene, and then we're gonna
rate the movie. So if you're happy to play along,
I can go first. A little bit more time.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You go first, I've got I've got some notes in
my head.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
But yeah, So for best actor, I mean, I think
it's unequivocally Jacob Alordi, who just surprised me so much.
I don't think there's a weak performance at it. I
think there are characters that are less interesting than others,
but there's no one I can point to and be like,
they really sucked in this. Everybody came and gave one
hundred percent, because you cannot give more than one hundred percent.
(43:10):
And I think that that's one of the reasons why
all of the characters are interesting, even if they're kind
of the boring less interesting brother, do you do? You
have a best actor?
Speaker 3 (43:23):
So I agree with you, but just for the sake
of something different, yay Oscar Isaac. I did not like
the character of Victor Frankenstein in the book. I think
he is absolutely insufferable.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I think I think that.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oscar gives him a little bit more of a backstory
with how the story is told, because it's a little
bit different, and so you kind of you understand why
he's doing the things he does, and so you feel
a little sympathy and then you hate him again. So
Oscar did that very very well, so I'll go with him.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I also want to say that I do think when
we switch between the stories, like this is Victor's story
and this is the Creature's story, he in particular, I think,
ramps up his badness in the Creature's story. It's a
very subtle turning up of the person that we meet
in the first half of the movie. And I thought
that that was very elegantly done by him.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Thank you. Best scene it is, probably if it's not
the wedding sequence, which is a number of scenes. I
think for me, it's Elizabeth going and seeking out the
creature in the basement, and it's just so beautiful. It's
both romantic and maternal, but not in a creepy way.
(44:35):
I just I can't come up with a better way
to describe it. So honestly, it's it's all the Elizabeth scenes.
I just think she's the best I know.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I really want to that's so funny. I was like, Oh,
that's a scene. I'm gonna go with him.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Sorry, No, I do think I do really like We
talked about this a little bit, but the scene where
he is in the barn cabins and all the mice
are around him, I think it really plays to his
gentleness and you trying to experience the creature in a
different way and obviously completely separate from what Victor has
(45:07):
described of him.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And I thought that was a.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Really beautiful juxtaposition of what you would assume a monster
and this really really delicate creature.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
So our rating scale is a one to five bregos.
Brego is my cat. You can't do halbs, but you
have to tell the friend you're choosing. So I will
let you go first on this one so that I
don't steal any thunder because I am. I knew our
opinions were going to be close. I knew, so on
(45:36):
a scale of one to five bregos, what are you
going to rate germal del Toro's break and s side.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Okay, so, based on everything I've said here, this probably
comes as no surprise.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
I'm going to give it five bregos.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yes, it's wonderfully done.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
It.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Really, he did such a fantastic job, everything from the
costumes to the set design. Like you mentioned, every single
performance just was additive to that film. He just did
such a beautiful job and it really is a culmination
of his life's work. And I don't think that we
are going to get a better Frankenstein ever in the
history of man.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I couldn't agree more. I'm also going to give it
five bregos, five, four bregos, six bregos if we could,
as many as many as I could possibly give them.
And I want to add that I think this movie
really proves the power of adaptation because even though it
diverges very heavily from the book, and I love the
(46:32):
book and I worship at its altar, you can make
a case for why other voices should tell these stories
and should come and build on them. And I think
this is a very clear example of how you can
add to a story at the same quality level with
which you're adapting.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, he stayed true to the heart of what
she was saying while also making it his own and
making it kind of it was almost like his love
letter to the to the book.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, and that's a difficult thing to quantify where I
can't I can't necessarily tell you why I think this
did it better than any other adaptations. But like pornography,
I know it when I say it. If you don't
understand that reference lunar history. If you want more Frankenstein,
you can go over to geekstory lesson dot com slash
recommended reading. We of course will recommend this movie, all
(47:22):
past interpretations and the book. So if you want to
understand some of the other references that Fallen and I
made throughout, or you just need stuff that's a little
more in the same vein, there's lots of things that
you can pick up over there, Fallin. If people are
enjoying you here and they want to see what an
Internet sensation you are, where can they support you online?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Mainly Instagram. I'm Fallin Valley. That's fa l O n
V A L l I. So I'd love to connect
with you there.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
And I want to say, if you want to feel
like your sense of aesthetics on Instagram are inferior, Fallen
is the top account to follow. Your Instagram is unfathomably
beautiful at all time.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And if you want to hear more with Fallon. I'm
gonna bully her into coming and joining us over on
Geek History Lesson Extra, which is where we do extra
supplemental episodes for every single episode of the pod. You
can find that at Patreon dot com slash jawin that
is jaw I follow the podcast all over Socials, but
especially on Instagram at Geek History Lesson. You can follow
me on Socials at Ashley V. Robinson Fallen again, thank
(48:29):
you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I'm so honored and class is now dismissed.
Fallon, you are very very good at predicting trends. Did
you know that Frankenstein reimagined through the lens of a
fairy tale was what the world needed this year?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I mean I personally did. I'm a huge Girmeal del
Toro fan, so I was a very hyped for this film.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
We definitely need it this year, and I feel like
it's getting pretty good reviews in its early streaks from theaters,
so I'm glad to see that it really was what
the world needed to kind of get us through the
end of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Here ooh and as we were throttling toward the end
of the year, this podcast is alive and I'm going
to say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I
am Ashal Victoria Robinson. You may have noticed that we
have someone who does not sound like Jason Man this
with us this week, and that is because he is
still hanging out at you Hop with a very famous doctective.
(01:02):
So instead, today we are joined by a Red Puff
marketing director, content Queen and TikTok Sensation Fallen prince Avelli.
Thank you so much for joining us on Geek History
Lesson today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so honored.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
We have been slowly but surely building up toward the
release of Germo del Torres Frankenstein, and I said, there's
nobody I would rather have than miss Ballen, who is
certainly our most fashionable guest of the entire year of GHL.
But it's mostly I'll say this with my entire chess
as someone who writes comics, it's mostly comic book writers.
(01:39):
So the bar is low, and you have update it
for everybody going forward. Wow, quite the breeze fallen. You
have not been on before to talk about Frankenstein in
any capacity, So before we dive into our thoughts on
the film specifically, I would love to ask you what
your relationship with Frankenstein as a concept and a franchise
(02:01):
has been like.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
Well, when I was growing up, my dad was very
much into horror and monster films, and so I grew
up with this background. Like I think one of the
first movies I ever watched as a kid was Stephen
King's It, the one that was in like what six
hours long? And I remember just like watching Tales from
the Crypt with my dad and my mom, and eventually
(02:26):
like Vincent Price Films and all the old school monster films,
and so I grew up with really a love of monsters.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
And one of the.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Things I especially love about gerrilmal del Toro is the
dichotomy of monsters and man in his films a lot
of the time where he talks about how the man
is actually the monster and where and kind of his
monsters hold up a mirror to man. And so I
knew when he was going to come out with this
film that it would be incredible, because I've been saying
(02:54):
for the longest time since The Shape of Water that
you just need to get him all of the all.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Of the universal monsters and just let him do whatever
he wants with them.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
But I have I have had a I actually just
read Frankenstein for the first time in my life. I
just finished it right before I saw the movie, and
I really really loved it. I don't know why it
took me so long to read it, but my love
for Frankenstein really just comes from my love of monsters,
and he is one of the greats and one of
the classics Reade's Monster.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Reading Frankenstein makes me feel like I will never be
as cool or as talented as Mary Shelley who wrote
the first draft at eighteen and it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
You're like, what am I doing all my life?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
No, seriously, and the fact that it was basically on
a dare. Yeah, I think it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
She's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
They're like, what do I do on a dare?
Speaker 4 (03:44):
On it?
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I'll make a dumb video and put it on the
Popper's Instagram.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
It's fine, Everything's fine, exactly right, We're successful.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I would love to ask you as well, because we
have a running gag with some of our past guests,
and i'd be interested to know where you followed this.
What is your favorite Universal Monster movie?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's a really good book.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
I know, there's so many of them, are so good.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I know.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
I probably have to say Dracula just because my heart
of hearts, it's always been with the Vampire, so.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
That's gonna be my favorite.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You are the first one in team Dracula, so really yeah, yeah,
we're it's very much a creature from the Black Lagoon,
the Invisible Man fight here on the pod. So I
like that we have a new contender for what movie.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I get it. I totally get it. My I think
my heart will just.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Always be with Dracula, so I have to go there
knowing you. I will say, I'm unsurprised to hear that.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I feel like when I was little, yeah, and there
were like a creek in my room and I would
get really really scared. I would just pretend it was
a vampire and I would feel better. So that gives
you a little insight into my brain.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I guess that is completely adorable. Okay, We're going to
charge a head into Frankeets Sign territory. So I want
to say for anyone listening, this is a full spoiler.
We're going into everything. It's November third, the movies out.
If you perceived this is on you girl, Okay. And
if you want an overview on Frankenstein, either in DC
comics or in larger pop culture history, we do have
(05:16):
two episodes on that. They came out last year, and
the two episodes preceding this one is an examination of
Frankenstein and the Bride of Frankenstein nineteen thirty one and
nineteen thirty five, and then Kenneth Brown is Mary Shelley's
Frankentzstein just my favorite title for a movie of all time.
And they will give you an absolute overview into what
you need to know about all things frank as seidn Fallin.
(05:37):
You tease us a little bit that you are a
Guillermo del Toro fan, but what are some of your
favorite movies that he's made.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
So what actually got me really into ghermal Del'suro was
Crimson Peak. That actually came out in twenty fifteen on
my birthday, and I dragged all of my friends to go.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It was gothic romance. It had Tom Hidlson and Charlie Hannel.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
It could not have been a more perfect film for me,
and I loved it, but it did not do well
in the box office, which is really disappointing. And so
I kind of took that my love of Girmaldo's Wuorrel
and that film and kind of watched the rest of
his backlog.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
There's still some I have not seen yet, but I
love the Shape of Water.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I love what he did with the creature from the
Black Lagoon essentially. And then I don't know if you've
seen Pinocchio, which is not really a monster movie, but
he really did put that dark Gothic spin on it
while making the character of Pinocchio really really human, right,
that's kind of based on the story. But I just
love his films and what he brings in, and I
(06:38):
feel like a lot of what he puts in his
films really speak to my heart and my love of
monsters and kind of seeing the good in those monsters
and the light in the dark. I think that's really important.
Like we keep saying, especially with how this year is going.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
It's funny because I did not see Pinocchio, and now
you are the second person in a row whose opinion
I really respect and trust so good. I think I'm
gonna be converted. I think I'm gonna have to check
it out, cause I was like, I don't want to
watch him do like not scary things. I know, my
favorite Gamma del Toro is Pans Labyrinth. Yes, I'm also
(07:13):
a big apologist for Pacific Rim because I love big
dumb monsters fighting. But I think Shape of Water, Shape
of Water or Pans if I was going to be like,
subjectively his best one, I think that's probably where I'd
fall u. I find that a lot of his movie
is also champion the idea of what if the monster
was hot? Yes, yeah, yeah, it's like no notes on that,
(07:38):
but I think this particular film is of is maybe
the clearest example of that. I'm gonna I'm gonna leave
off discussing what the creature looks like, and in the
particular casting of him, which which I will say I was,
I was a convert on as well for a little.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Bit the same.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, I was like, do I want the hot guy
from Euphoria? It turns out I did.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I really I love what they surprise you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh I am. I'm thrilled to be wrong about something
like if I'm like, oh, that looks dumb, and then
everyone tells me like, no, it's not. It's really great,
and then I find myself moved by it. There's nothing
better than being wrong because things are actually great.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
The movie relies on Mary Shelley's framing device of the
Sea Captain a lot more than other classic interpretations of it.
I did not know he was going to be played
played by Lars Michelson. And then every time we kind
of return to those scenes and to him in particular
to bookend the different narratives, I was really excited to
(08:38):
get back to see I just think he's so great.
There's a lot of clever use of non English dialogue
in the movie. And I really like that for the opening.
It's very unsettling and off putting to like an English
languagepaking audience and be like, oh, okay, maybe I don't
understand everything. And I think the interstitials do really good
with the pasic. Now, the run time is two and
(09:00):
a half hours long, which I think some folks might
bulk at. But what did you think about the pacing
of the film.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
I enjoy a long film.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
One of the things my fiance always says is like,
movies should be ninety minutes and that's it.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
That's the perfect.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Why think that was the same thing.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I will say this, So we saw it in a
private theater for my birthday with some of my friends,
who were only like eight of us in the theater,
so we could be a little rowdy if we wanted to.
And I will say, and this is obviously a spoiler,
but when they got to the point where it switched
to be the story from the creature's perspective, yeah, our
theater cheered, Like we all cheered and got really excited
(09:43):
because I didn't know if he was going to do
that or not. And I feel like that's what for
me made the runtime. Okay, it's definitely. There were a
few scenes that I was like, eh, he lost me
for like a second, but then he pulled me right
back in. So I think if the story wasn't split,
that run time would have been way too long. But
I think the way that he told the story, he
really did it justice both to the book and to
(10:06):
his own interpretation on it because he changed some of
those things.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
So it did not bother me.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
But again, I am like a germal Delt who were
a worshipper, so I don't think. I think it could
have been terrible, and I probably still would have loved it.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I have to say that I am someone who is
pretty staunched, like the book didn't do this. I was
an absolute nightmare watching his Dark Material series. I was like,
they got to bear best. But I do think because
we've seen so many on screen interpretations, that the changes
that were made, particularly in Victor's early life, I really
(10:42):
really enjoy. I liked when we got to see his
upbringing in Switzerland that we got a lot of stuff
in French language, and I will say as a French
speaker there, French was very good. I am always surprised
when they don't translate certain lines like, there were a
couple throws lines and I was like, people don't know
what that means. You should translate this for them. That
(11:05):
would be a kind thing to do. I think Charles
Dance as Evil Daddy Frankenstein always an incredible choice. It
was perfect, great job, and I'm obsessed with the red
outfit that Victor's mother was then when.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
She does that, Yeah, he does that in a lot
of his film He did that in Crimson Peak as well. Yeah,
that was one of the things. I read a review
and the way that they described it was it was
Shelley's skeleton, but the flesh around it was del Toro's.
And I think that's the perfect way to describe it.
And one of the things that really stood out to
(11:38):
me was the use of red with the mother.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
He does that in quite a few of his films.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think also the costume and the set designs was
very del Toro. That kind of man versus monster was
very del Toro. But I think he could have you know,
this was like his life's work, this film, and so
I think he could have that could be direct inspiration
that he got from Shelley in all of his other films,
which I also thought was very cool, and then that
gothic romance aspect was very del Toro.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
That was obviously not in the book itself.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Have you seen It's maybe a tweet or a thread.
I don't know anymore because I just want to call
them all tweets. They will ask to reach my heart.
But there was a post that someone said that Gamba
del Toro has the creativity of a Victorian woman with
a wasting disease, and he said, I believe I do.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yes, I did see that perfect and I was like,
that's why I like him so much.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
She's like just streaming and fantasizing about like a monster.
Romance is what it feels like. Sometimes it speaks to
my soul.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
What did you think about not seeing Elizabeth in these
early scenes, because she is even though she has a
lot less agency in the books than in film adaptations.
I'm always looking for her. I'm always interested to see
and when they cast me a goth I was like, great,
show me her, and I was surprised to not see
her in these early scenes me too.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I think that's one of the changes he made that
I actually really liked by the man, because well, one,
I love that he wasn't talking about marrying his cousin
and then the other one. And I do feel like
it gave her more of a storyline, and it added
to the story, and it added to her role later on,
(13:16):
so I feel like it definitely paid off towards the end.
So yeah, I was surprised by that too, and then
when I realized kind of where he was going with it,
I actually I feel like I actually preferred that and
how she interacted with the creature.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Because there is a there's a scene in the Kenneth
Brenda nineteen ninety four film where they're like about to
make out and she goes, we'll do what brothers and
sisters do, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Like, really, no, please, I don't know a different time,
and but like this this is it's really it's really uncomfortable,
and I want to I wanted to believe that it
was intended to be uncomfortable, but I don't know what.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Being the benefactor's daughter is definitely the better storyline for
me personally, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also liked the change of making
her if definitely not a scientist, because I think even
at this time women would not have been educated, but
like interested in the world of science that made her
a very fun literary foil for ficture.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Age.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Let's talk about when Oscar Isaac finally comes into this.
I love his big dumb hat, I love his big
dumb hair, I love the unnecessary bath scenes and nudity. Man,
he is so good in this part. But there was
never any doubt.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Was there. No, not at all. Wait, we knew he
would be perfect for this.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
And actually I went to an event where gimmeldl Tour
was talking a little bit about this process, and he
said that he met with Oscar before all of this
and they had like a four hour meeting, which he
said he doesn't usually do, and at the end of
it he looked at Oscar and said, I am going
to write the part of Victor Frank and sign for you.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So when he wrote the film, he wrote it.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
With Oscar Isaac in mine, which I think is a
really beautiful thing and is why he placed so well
into it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
It was literally written for him.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I also love the photo that Giermo shared where he's
sitting on the set in the window and it's intentionally
framed to look like that very famous piece of Bernie
Wrightson art. And I was like, oh, man, I can
only imagine the references that these two guys must have
just been lobbing at each other back, like I just
want to be a fan on the wall while they're
nerding out about all the same stuff together.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I always said if I could have like one wish,
if I had like a dying wish, it would be
actually to gather like five of I don't know, historical
or celebrity figures and have a dinner at giambal del
Toro's house, which is called I think it's called bleak House,
or I think along those lines, Yeah, which I really.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Want to do. And that's still that would be my
dying wish if I ever got one, and.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Be like, I'm going to be touching the wallpaper that
you have from the original Haunted mansion. I'm so sorry,
I have no argument.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Maybe some of yourself will disappear.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It was the same, yeah, yeah, I just imagine you
being lowered into a sarcophagus with like a various gearabl
del Toro, oh good in your hands, exactly. I also
think the sequence where Victor goes to school and sets
a PI laboratory and meets the benefactor, who we'll talk
about in just a second is really just kind of
(16:16):
speaks the most to what you were saying about the
design being like man versus monster, and a very clear
illustration of that, And it made me really appreciate all
of the designers and the props masters and the pas
who would have had to go around and source all
of these incredibly beautiful images because the sequence where we're
starting to develop the idea of what the creature is
(16:36):
going to become is really grizzly if you think about
it logically. But at no point did I find this
movie like gross or felt like I had to look
away from the screen, because it's all presented in such
a stunning fashion, like particularly the corpse whose back is
flayed open that we've seen also in a bunch of
promotional art, like the moment where that thing life's up
(16:58):
in screams is horrifying, but it's still an incredibly impressive feat.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Absolutely, and he does he does gore so beautifully, which
is a weird thing to say, but it's it's very
artistic the way he does it, and I'm fascinated by
kind of his process because he's worked with the same
team for years, so they really know his style, and
I do, like we said, with you know, putting the
Mother in Red, it really carries over like a theme
(17:24):
in some of his films, and I like that a lot.
I think it's very artistic, and it's very visually appealing,
and I feel like, especially in an age where it's
so hard to keep attention, there's always something to look
at and always something catching your eye in his films.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Particularly in an age where you know, you and I
are I don't know for the same we're very close
in age. Yeah, we came up. We came up in
an age where eli roth and hostile was kind of
sense it all. Yeah, Like it's it's so nice to
see the same theme explored in a less complete horrified
in a whimsical way. Dare I say yes?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
And that's the romance side of that gothic, right, Yeah.
It's very beautiful, it's very visually appealing. It it leans
into the magical in a way that I think, you know,
obviously other horror movies don't do that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
You mentioned a little bit earlier the introduction of Christoph
Waltz's character Heinrich Harlander, who they referred to as Harirr Harlander.
I thought it was Hollander for a long time, so
oh he's Dutch. How fun? How interesting? Maybe he's an
ancestor of Tom who is now a Superman. When he
first showed up, I was like, who is this man?
He looks so familiar to me because of the way,
(18:44):
and it wasn't until he spoke, oh no, he is
so good in this and just giving Victor somebody else
to speak to who's not an assistant, like who's not
Igor where they're on the same power plane. I thought
was a really really interesting choice. I'm assuming because you're
smarter than me, that you knew he was going to
(19:05):
be in this film.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I actually didn't.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I was wondering who that character because they were going
through the characters and I was like, who is this guy?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Completely new?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
But I think it was a great choice, and I
think they couldn't have picked a better person to play
him either. But I think that was really really interesting
and I think it adds to his story is so
interesting too, because you start with he's a benefactor and
I think he's in it for the money, and then
you know that kind of turns towards the end and
you find out exactly why he's so interested in Victor
(19:34):
doing this and running this experience experiment and making it work.
And I thought that was a really interesting take on
man and kind of.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
What's the one I'm looking for?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
You just like what you would do out of desperation,
what you would fund out of desperation for your life,
And so in Victor creating life, it was because someone
was trying to save theirs, and so I thought that
was really interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I think they also both serve to illustrate the hubris
of like human beings, because Victor obviously is trying to
play God, which, as we know narratively, is the ultimate
sin that you can commit, particularly you know, in a
very a time where Christianity would have been very much
what everybody in England was practicing. I love the scene,
(20:23):
and I really usually don't go for scenes where a
man is urinating as a power move, but I think
it was again very elegantly and eloquently done. I thought
that was a fantastic scene where he kind of gives
Victor the ultimatum, both in terms of the experiment and
Elizabeth ultimately like it's a bit it's always a bit
(20:44):
gross when the woman is offered up as a reward
but here it's very intentionally done something Oh okay, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Fine, it's very much a boss move on his part.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Yes, I also am glad that there is a very
obvious attraction between Victor and Elizabeth. But the confessional scene
is so good and it's so funny where he thinks
he's trapped her but actually she's trapped him. I'm glad
that she has the agency to recognize what's going on
and call him out on it. At the same time.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Yeah, I think that that kind of sets up her
whole story arc. That's exactly what she does, you know,
until the end, I mean even I guess we'll get
to that end. Oh yeah, but anyway, but yeah, I
like that as well. I think that was really smart,
and I think it just sets up that Elizabeth is
is much smarter than he is, even though he doesn't
(21:38):
see it.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, well, I mean men, right, yeah, not all men?
Hashtag guess all men? As this movie definitely seems to
want to tell us can we can we talk about
the tower and how cool the tower is that Victor
Poppen I love. My favorite detail is that it's aes
aquest vita, which is water is life in Latin nobody
(22:00):
translates it for you. You either know or you don't,
but just such a good subtle detail. Yeah now I know, Yeah, yeah.
My Latin and high school finally paid off for something.
Cannot only read religious texts. I could read random things.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
At a gear with a toal movie.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
What did you think about the visual when we discovered
the tower for the first time.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
They have a habit of creating spaces that I want
to move into, and I'm in the scheme. Uh So,
I loved it and it, like I said, Crimson Peak
is one of my favorite films, and it's very reminiscent.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
It's it's the same thing like it's.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Called uh Allerdale Hall in Crimson Peak, but it's very
much both. Both spaces are a little bit decrepit but
also beautiful, and it's it has two people who are
desperately trying to save or in Frankenstein's case, create life
in these spaces. And so I think they do a
(22:55):
beautiful job of again that artistry of taking something supposed
to be a little bit spooky, a little bit scary,
a little bit horror filled, and making it really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
My only note on it was I was very taken
with all of the leaf imagery. I love the lean
falling in and particularly when they make their way down
to the creature and he makes you gifts. One to
Elizabeth's very beautiful. But the whole time, I was like,
it would be so cold in there. It was so
cold in there. It was all I could think.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
You know, I keep referencing this, But in Crimson Peak too,
it starts actually at one point snowing through the Yeah.
So it's something he likes to do a lot, and
I wish, I wish I knew had some backstory on that.
I need to, like, I don't know, ask it the
next time I go to an event where he's doing
a Q and A.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
All we have to do is bring him to one
of the future read pop shows, which will be so easy.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I'm listen.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
I keep I keep asking, I said, Eddie, when is
he going to come to me?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Or comic gun?
Speaker 1 (23:56):
I look, I think we can get him not to
shop up too much, but you can get him also
inside the tower, I think we get the most obvious
Crimson Peak illusion, which is definitely contender for my favorite
nightgown scene of all time. When Elizabeth and William, I
want to say I'm not going to talk a lot
(24:16):
about William unless you really want to, But I do
think it's a thankless part, and I think the actor
does a very good job playing the stiff less interesting.
He's not necessarily intentionally unlikable brother, but he's just not
as compelling. But I think he does a good job
(24:38):
with a part that is really, frankly, not that interesting
on the page.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I agree he had it as much screen time as
he needed to, yes, to keep.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
The story moving well said, but they finally show up
and they're like, hey, bro, what have you been doing here?
And then Elizabeth goes down into the basement and finds
the creature. But I absolutely loved how it's It's sheer
to the point of being see through but without feeling exploitative.
And if somebody on Etsy wants to make me one,
(25:09):
just just let a girl know. But I wanted to
know how much your yeah, how much your little Crimson
people loving heart loved that sequence in particular, I.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Know it's beautiful and particular, like you talked about it before,
where it was just such a heartfelt scene.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
And I think not to not.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
To shift gears completely, but Jacob Elordi is so childlike
in that moment, and it just it was just like
breathtaking and beautiful and to see kind of where he
plays out. I know we're talking about costumes, but I
was thinking about that and my heart started swooning.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So, yeah, it's interesting because the the birth scene that
I always call them the it's a live scene. Even
though I really appreciate the restraint of not having Victor
say it's a lie in this version of the film.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Do you know what's interesting about that too? Is he
he says, what's the quote he uses? He used when
he finishes not instead of it's alive. When he finishes
building the creature, he says it is finished, which is
and I think a callback to how Mary Shelley was
really influenced by Paradise Lost.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yes, and I find that really fascinating.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Some of like the Christian imagery that was in it too,
when they brought him up and it was very clear
he was on a crucifix like the fixture, and so
I think that's fascinating, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
There are also moments where and I want to believe
this is intentional, where and later on when the creature
is walking in the woods and he he's kind of
not walking properly. It's very much like like watching a
toddler walk, but he does. And I think he's in
these I think he's intentionally hitting these poses that are
(26:49):
christ like from Renaissance era and Victorian era art. But
I just I can't imagine how you would how choreographed
every inch of your performance would have to be to
hit that. But as I was watching it, I was like, oh,
this reminds me like a lot of things that I've
seen at the Loop or the Museum over time and
(27:11):
h but you know, maybe he is choreographed within an
inch of his life. I certainly don't know.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
He surprised me so much I would not put it
past him.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
What Okay, we can we let's let's just talk about him.
Uh what did you know him from? Had you seen
him in anything before you've seen frank Stein?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It was literally just euphoria.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
So when they cast him, I was like, all right, okay,
I guess he's tall, so yeah, you.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Know look and and no, it's not that I think
he's bad on euphoria, just like there's nothing likable or
redeeming in that character to kind of yeah, clutch On,
I think especially job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hard to admit.
But I was like, as as somebody who at any
point has ever had a teenage boy beaming to them.
(27:59):
Maybe I'm just too triggered. Yeah, the performance, but I
was the same thing. I was like, okay, like the
hawk diy from Vitoria, like, I guess, uh, you know,
prove me wrong, and he really does. Have you seen
the National Theater Lives production of Frankenstein where it's been
at it's Cumberbatch and Johnny Lee Miller and they swap.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
I have actually I watched that.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Oh gosh, I think when it's in like twenty fourteen,
so I have any Yeah, but yeah, I did see
that one.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Because his physical performance, particularly when he's first birthed and
Victor takes him down into the basement, which becomes his
sort of holding cell.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
It real.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
He really reminded me of what they were doing in that.
And I don't know if it's a direct lift or
if in this modern age that's like the logical turn
for that type of performance, but I was like, oh,
what he was doing with his hands really reminded me
of their shared performance as the creature in that.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, now that you mentioned, and I could really see that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
And I remember Cumberbatch because I am obsessed with him
giving an interview where he said that doing that show
gave him plant or fasciitis in his feet from all
slow way he was holding his feet, and so I
was like, I hope this young man.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
And I hope he's okay.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
He was okay on the red carpet, so I think
I think he got he got through Unscape.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Oh my gosh. The picture of him and Oscar Isaac
on the red carpet where he looks like he's seventy
five feet tall, is so funny to me because I
forget that Oscar Isaac is a short gg.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, it's so good. What I loved about this too
is Gamela.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
At the event, I was was talking about how they
booked Jacob for this role based on his eyes, and
that the makeup team or you know, the costume design
team that was creating the monster was actually creating it
for Andrew Garfield, who dropped out like six weeks before
they were.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Start film member.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
I did not remember that. Also, when they said that,
I tried, I had already seen the movie and I
tried to picture Andrew Garfield in this role, and I
just like, I can't it with I was like, I
just feel like Jacob al already wound up being so
perfect for this role.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I can't picture anyone else in it now.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
But they said they cast it based on his eyes,
and they were freaking out, and and Girmalto Toros said
it was the best, best thing that could have happened,
because he knew that sometimes in those moments that happens
because it's the best thing for the film. So he
had to like calm down his team and then they
just subceeded, and they wound up getting an incredible creature.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Out of it.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I mean, as someone with zero chill, I can also
understand that, like, what are you talking about? Everything's gonna
be horrible, But it does make the performance even more
impressive because I am a creature apologist. Uh. He is
the best part of these interpretations of the story time
(30:42):
and time again. And I was like, do I want
a sexy Frankenstein? And it turns out I do, and
I'm very into it, and I but I do think
it's a very interesting, I guess, a meta modern take
on this myth because Borskarloff is the most famous and
(31:03):
probably will always be the most famous version of the creature.
And so to do an antithetical to be like we
are building Anna Donnis intentionally, I thought was fast and
like all the way back to the scene where they're
hunting for supplies on the battlefield.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, I feel like it makes it the story
a little bit more real, you know, it makes it
feel like, you know, someone probably could have tried this
and did this. It feels less almost less monster like. Yeah,
and I think it does give the creature a lot
more of that human feeling that you wind up having
by the end, because he starts out as a child,
he does become a little monstrous. And then I love
(31:43):
the theme of grace that's kind of woven into this
by the end yea, and kind of the arc that
they have I think is really beautiful. And I feel
like the way that he looks really lends to that
storyline very well.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Because I was confused initially when all he was saying
was Victor, because we know from the book that he's
highly intelligent and highly highly capable. And then of course,
the perfect, beautiful, flawless Elizabeth shows up and says, maybe
it's because that's the most important word to him, and
that's his whole world. And I I didn't cry when
I watched the film, but that was the moment where
(32:18):
you know, when you're like heart clenches yes, because if
you're having like an emotional response, I was like, oh, no,
am I gonna cry side? Is this gonna be the
thing that destroys me?
Speaker 2 (32:29):
I know?
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And then my heart fully swooned when the second word
he said was Elizabeth.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yeah, I was like, ah, it's a great moment where
Victor is, uh, you know, he's trying to cover up
his mistakes and we know he's going to burn down
the castle because firebad is also a running theme of
all Frankenstein insternation. And he says, just say one other word,
and he says Elizabeth, and just the way Oscar Isaac
pauses for like a breath. It's such a small bit
(32:56):
of acting and it's so good. But I've been collecting
a lot of leaves recently, so him using a leaf
as a gift instead of a flower. I also was like, oh,
how very a tumunull of him.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
I know, I know.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
And then did you notice this is actually going back
to costumes for a lot. Did you notice the sleeves
of her wedding dress mimic the brides?
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yes, that was good. I was wondering because again in
Kenneth Brown as Mary Shelley's Frankatestide, and they fully make
Helenavonum Carter, who plays Elizabeth, she becomes the bride and
she and she is killed and then reincarnated in that film,
and I was like, oh, are we going to go
that far? Like I would have loved to see it,
(33:38):
but I admire the restraint to not fully do the bride.
And you know, Gary Elmo thought about it. You know
there was a draft of this where she fully brided
it out.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I know what, I want it so bad. I need
like the extended edition.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Or honestly, just make Bride with Mia Gough. You know,
I it doesn't have to be Cannon, doesn't have to
be a continuation like I will watch it. It's fine.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Before we dive into the wedding completely, I do want
to talk a little bit about the creature's time in
the forest where he becomes the good spirit of the
forest and we get a revisit to the classic blind Man,
Blind Little Girl storyline. David Bradley consistently an underrated actor
in my opinion, because he usually plays bad guys but
(34:27):
so lovely. I want him to adopt me. I want
to live in his house.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I know that whole storyline, just like you talk about
that heart clenching moment, and it just I remember in
when I was reading the book, just like being able
to sympathize with the creature, just wanting to belong and
wanting that community and wanting a companion and finally finding
that with this family, but not being able to be
his true self or be involved.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
With them in the beginning was just like so heartbreaking
for me.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
And I felt that way reading the novel and felt
the same way when I was watching it play out
on screen.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I also think, because I'm such an animal lover, you'll
just never convince me that wolves are scary. Yeah, So
that was the one the one time where I really
really felt bad, I guess was when he has the
showdown with the wolves at the end of that storyline,
and obviously they've they've caused a lot of destruction in
(35:20):
their own right, and they've taken out his friend, but
I was like, they're just wolves and wolves they didn't
they didn't know. I don't want to bite the wolves.
I was really nervous because they kind of show his
softness at his empathy where he's in the millhouse and
he's with all of the mice and the rats, and
they also become his friend. And I was like, I
(35:41):
swear to God, if he crushes one of these, I'm
gonna lose it. Like I'm good.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
I'm so a little of mice and men.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I thought the design in this was also very strong,
making them much more Viking and sort of pagan inspired
down to there's all this imagery of the green Man
who is the harvest god and the Celtic god of plenty.
I was like, ooh, this is cool. Let's do war
witchcraft in this universe.
Speaker 2 (36:11):
And it did so well. It did and it didn't feel.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Tacked on, and it didn't feel like, oh, okay, now
we're doing like some vaguely pagan imagery. It was just like, no,
this would be the fact of these people living at
this time in a remote location. But it did kick
my heart right in the nuts right before we did
the wedding, and I kind of think the wedding sequence
is my favorite sequence of the whole thing, even though
(36:38):
it comes right at the end. Again, very happy that
it was. It was not between Victor and Elizabeth that
made me really really happy. I man, I just thought
it was so beautiful. The wedding dress is incredible. It's
obviously a great homage, like you said, to Elsa Leanchester
as the bride and culminating it in Elizabe. This death,
(37:01):
I thought was so fascinating. What did you think about
giving the final blow to Victor.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I really think it speaks to that story of monster
versus man. In the end, it wasn't the monster who
killed her. It was the man, and it was the
man trying to play god, and then he tried to
blame it on the monster. I know what it did,
and I really that I think that's what and I'm
(37:30):
going to be getting a little bit too ahead, so
ring we go for it. But I think that's what's
so beautiful about Like I said, that's that storyline of
grace and one of the things that del Toro said
at this event where I talked to my keep speaking
to his own words. But you know, in those final moments,
the monster gave Victor, despite all he had done, grace
(37:54):
and forgiveness and those things in the world Delta said
are so scarce and it makes them very courage and
so I feel like it was so refreshing to see
how much emotion is in this story, especially when sometimes
the world is so afraid to experience these complex emotions.
And I think that's what makes the wedding scene from
(38:15):
that scene to the end of the story so beautiful too,
is he just.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Did this vile thing.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
He killed the one companion the monster could finally have,
and she wanted to go with him, and it just, like,
I don't know, it tore up my art strings in
the most beautiful way. And also, didn't you know it
teased that monster romance bit without actually giving it to me,
So I, yeah, you know, to find a fan fix
somewhere that I can read about it.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Oh, I guarantee you this is going to inspire a
whole chapter of archive of our own installments. There will
be there will be shippers of plenty for many, many
different possible pairings. I can see it already of my life.
I kind of think to what you're speaking about. It's
the trifecta of William's death, which I don't believe his
(39:04):
book canon, but it is him is real?
Speaker 2 (39:07):
The monster kills him right in the book.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
And he's a child. I think he's like, still little,
isn't it. But it's William tells Victor you're a monster,
which this is the first interpretation where we've had that.
It's a very mad thing to do, but very satisfying.
And then it's in the in the final scenes, it's
Victor calling the creature his son, and then the creature
absolving Victor. I think really drives home what you're talking about,
(39:32):
with like the themes of grace and forgiveness and and
ultimately like choosing to be the better man, which with
Victor franksin the bar is truly in hell. So it's
not like Alex, but it's very, very, very elegantly done.
I loved laying Elizabeth out in the cave on the rock.
(39:54):
I loved when she saw the creature again that she
went to him immediately and and like you were saying,
they kind of tease that we're going to get I
was like, kiss. They did not. They did not kiss,
to my satisfaction, But I guess I guess that's what
a three is for. But the way the blood was
spilling into her dress and the way that it was
(40:16):
following behind them. I just I could only hope for
so beautiful and elegant a death in real life, frankly,
but I did think it was smart because if you're
shot in that part of your body, you don't die immediately.
That's a lie of movies. So I want to say
that was a good bit of science that she got to.
She got to have her final resting place and her
final words, and I liked that very very much, and
(40:39):
I liked the closure that we ultimately got in those
final scenes. And then it extends back to the Captain
Us played by Lars Michelson, allowing the creature to go
on with his life because it's implicit in a lot
of other incarnations that he is unkillable, but we've he's
(41:00):
very much Wolverine in this version, which is cool, but
also I think it's definitely sad or like there are
other incarnations of a immortality mythology where it's something to
be celebrated, and here it's it's definitely not something that
we're looking forward to.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Yeah, that's something he asked for.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
No.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Before we kind of wrap up our discussion, is there
anything that we absolutely have to talk about that we've
sort of skipped over a move. It's a two and
a half hour movie. Folks were doing our very best.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Word no, I think.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Oh, I would love to end it with this quote
that that I actually wrote down in my notes up
while I was at this event. So Germo said that
there are things that you're here to say, and if
you find the song that you're meant to sing, you
do it beautifully.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
And that's how he feels about this movie and this work.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
This is like a culmination of his life's work and
everything that has inspired him. And so I think that
reflects very beautifully and how he told this story. He
did it such justice. And so if you have not
seen it yet, you absolutely have to.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
And I will say if you if you are someone
who is afraid, if you're like a scaredy cat, if
you can't do a lot of gore and violence, it
is it's very minimal. It's very much. I said this
at the beginning Frankenstein through a fairy Tale left.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
I really want to encourage people to check because I
it's it's one of my favorite movies already. I will
say my entire chest fallin. We like to close out
our discussion on movies by saying who we thought was
the best actor, the best scene, and then we're gonna
rate the movie. So if you're happy to play along,
I can go first. A little bit more time.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
You go first, I've got I've got some notes in
my head.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
But yeah, So for best actor, I mean, I think
it's unequivocally Jacob Alordi, who just surprised me so much.
I don't think there's a weak performance at it. I
think there are characters that are less interesting than others,
but there's no one I can point to and be like,
they really sucked in this. Everybody came and gave one
hundred percent, because you cannot give more than one hundred percent.
(43:10):
And I think that that's one of the reasons why
all of the characters are interesting, even if they're kind
of the boring less interesting brother, do you do? You
have a best actor?
Speaker 3 (43:23):
So I agree with you, but just for the sake
of something different, yay Oscar Isaac. I did not like
the character of Victor Frankenstein in the book. I think
he is absolutely insufferable.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
I think I think that.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Oscar gives him a little bit more of a backstory
with how the story is told, because it's a little
bit different, and so you kind of you understand why
he's doing the things he does, and so you feel
a little sympathy and then you hate him again. So
Oscar did that very very well, so I'll go with him.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
I also want to say that I do think when
we switch between the stories, like this is Victor's story
and this is the Creature's story, he in particular, I think,
ramps up his badness in the Creature's story. It's a
very subtle turning up of the person that we meet
in the first half of the movie. And I thought
that that was very elegantly done by him.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Thank you. Best scene it is, probably if it's not
the wedding sequence, which is a number of scenes. I
think for me, it's Elizabeth going and seeking out the
creature in the basement, and it's just so beautiful. It's
both romantic and maternal, but not in a creepy way.
(44:35):
I just I can't come up with a better way
to describe it. So honestly, it's it's all the Elizabeth scenes.
I just think she's the best I know.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I really want to that's so funny. I was like, Oh,
that's a scene. I'm gonna go with him.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Sorry, No, I do think I do really like We
talked about this a little bit, but the scene where
he is in the barn cabins and all the mice
are around him, I think it really plays to his
gentleness and you trying to experience the creature in a
different way and obviously completely separate from what Victor has
(45:07):
described of him.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
And I thought that was a.
Speaker 3 (45:09):
Really beautiful juxtaposition of what you would assume a monster
and this really really delicate creature.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
So our rating scale is a one to five bregos.
Brego is my cat. You can't do halbs, but you
have to tell the friend you're choosing. So I will
let you go first on this one so that I
don't steal any thunder because I am. I knew our
opinions were going to be close. I knew, so on
(45:36):
a scale of one to five bregos, what are you
going to rate germal del Toro's break and s side.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Okay, so, based on everything I've said here, this probably
comes as no surprise.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
I'm going to give it five bregos.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Yes, it's wonderfully done.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
It.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Really, he did such a fantastic job, everything from the
costumes to the set design. Like you mentioned, every single
performance just was additive to that film. He just did
such a beautiful job and it really is a culmination
of his life's work. And I don't think that we
are going to get a better Frankenstein ever in the
history of man.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I couldn't agree more. I'm also going to give it
five bregos, five, four bregos, six bregos if we could,
as many as many as I could possibly give them.
And I want to add that I think this movie
really proves the power of adaptation because even though it
diverges very heavily from the book, and I love the
(46:32):
book and I worship at its altar, you can make
a case for why other voices should tell these stories
and should come and build on them. And I think
this is a very clear example of how you can
add to a story at the same quality level with
which you're adapting.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yeah. Absolutely, he stayed true to the heart of what
she was saying while also making it his own and
making it kind of it was almost like his love
letter to the to the book.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, and that's a difficult thing to quantify where I
can't I can't necessarily tell you why I think this
did it better than any other adaptations. But like pornography,
I know it when I say it. If you don't
understand that reference lunar history. If you want more Frankenstein,
you can go over to geekstory lesson dot com slash
recommended reading. We of course will recommend this movie, all
(47:22):
past interpretations and the book. So if you want to
understand some of the other references that Fallen and I
made throughout, or you just need stuff that's a little
more in the same vein, there's lots of things that
you can pick up over there, Fallin. If people are
enjoying you here and they want to see what an
Internet sensation you are, where can they support you online?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
Mainly Instagram. I'm Fallin Valley. That's fa l O n
V A L l I. So I'd love to connect
with you there.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
And I want to say, if you want to feel
like your sense of aesthetics on Instagram are inferior, Fallen
is the top account to follow. Your Instagram is unfathomably
beautiful at all time.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
And if you want to hear more with Fallon. I'm
gonna bully her into coming and joining us over on
Geek History Lesson Extra, which is where we do extra
supplemental episodes for every single episode of the pod. You
can find that at Patreon dot com slash jawin that
is jaw I follow the podcast all over Socials, but
especially on Instagram at Geek History Lesson. You can follow
me on Socials at Ashley V. Robinson Fallen again, thank
(48:29):
you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
I'm so honored and class is now dismissed.
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