July 21, 2025 • 30 mins
This week YOU lead the Superman discussion! We answer your questions about everything Superman from stories we love, tropes we want to retire, characters we want to see more of, and moments we never want to hear referenced ever again. Did your question make it to air? Listen to the full episode & find out!
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Thanks for showing up to class today. Class is dismissed!
For exclusive bonus podcasts like our Justice League Review show our Teen Titans Podcast, GHL Extra & Livestreams with the hosts, join the Geek History Lesson Patreon ► https://www.patreon.com/Jawiin
GHL RECOMMENDED READING from this episode► https://www.geekhistorylesson.com/recommendedreading
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Thanks for showing up to class today. Class is dismissed!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Super Friend and the listener Mark Sutton asks, I've had
this rattling around in my head since watching Superman the
Christopher Reeves Story. There's a lot of footage in the
documentary of reed family home movies, and I realized that
it would make a perfect sense for Superman to be
just like that. All he has of his birth parents
is recordings, and I imagine, especially after he has a
son of his own, he'd be obsessed with documenting everything.
(00:35):
Maybe get some tips from Jimmy on how to wear
a camera. That's it's just really heartwarming in my head,
and I think it's nice to have exist and it
is observations like that, and it is Superman coming out
on July eleventh. That is why we have answered the
halseand call to give you a Superman Mailbag episode. So
I'm gonna say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson.
(00:56):
I'm Ashy Victoria Robinson.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And in men, welcome to your podcast. That was the
opening fan affair of John Williams. A musical theme that
is so beautiful and so amazing that we can't leave
it alone, even though it's over forty years old and
probably should go to rest.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And we also simply can't play it here for copyright reasons.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Can't do it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
John Williams won't let us.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, John Williams, Oh good God, have a well deserved rest.
I hope you're drinking a nice my tie on a
porch somewhere and justly enjoin it. Everywhere. But we're here
to talk about Superman because Superman's everywhere. Well, he's not
really everywhere, but he seems to be. Warner Bow's definitely
shoving him down my throat and I'm tired of it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
No, anyways, he's everything everywhere, all at once.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
He is. There's a lot I we'll tell you around
Los Angeles. There's a lot of billboards of Superman prop around. Yeah,
it's everywhere. It's not really everywhere in like you know,
places like supermarkets and stuff like that, but it's everywhere
on the four five more than one on wan. But yeah,
So we decided in honor of that movie and doing
this podcast. We have a Patreon over at patreon dot
(01:57):
com slash jaw and j w i I in where
we we asked some of our friends to give us
some Superman questions. So if you want to be like
the people, it's a Superman mail bag. Superman flew into
our house and he dropped a crap tunnel letters on
our heads and we said, ow, Superman, and he said
that's what you get, and we said, okay, Jesus, all right,
back off, and then he flew away.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
We do have several Superman themed episodes that you can
go and listen to. We have the Golden Age, we
have the Silver Age, we have the Bronze Age, we
have the Modern age we just didn't want. We have
best Superman stories, we have the best Batman v. Superman stories.
We have Superman is better than Batman. So we're answering
your questions this week.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm just saying, if you want to be like the
super Friends and drop a bag of letters on top
of our head, go to patreon dot com slash John
and jwi An enjoy it. Let's kick off. Let's get
no more scuttle button to answer some questions. Answer, but
we got to answer some answer button, some Superman button questions.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Absolutely, who is kicking us off today? Jason?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We have a one question here from Tom Trainor and
his letter cut my knee and I said, what is
it about Superman as a character that made this but
evilpe so prominent for a while across various mediums, more
than Evil Batman, Evil spider Man, and etcetera.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I don't think. I don't think the phrase for a
while needs to be added in there. I think this
is a continued obsession of people who are pitching their
first good idea, maybe not even their first good idea,
the first idea that comes. We talked about this a
little bit on our previous episode about Superman. But Superman
(03:28):
is this this bastion? Right? He is something that we
should aspire to be. He's a beacon of goodness, He's
a big blue boy, all those all those things that
people like to hurl at him as an insult. But
Superman is aspirational, and so what is antithetical to that
but badness? And that's why I think it's a real
lazy pitch. And I also think I think Evil Superman
(03:49):
has been done well enough we don't need to revisit it.
But I just think it's the inevitable comparison, like he's happy,
let's make him sad? Okay, great revolutionary? Do you feel
any differently? What do you think about this but evil
trope for Superman?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I think it's because people don't know how to write Superman. Yeah,
it's the lazy choice. Let to be honest here, there
have been stories that have been really good at pulling
it off. Superman red Son is a version. Yeah. The
best version of it, honestly is The Boys, the comic
tage more on that. Yeah, But because they've tied Homelander
(04:25):
to politics.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So, I mean he's literally Superman, but he's evil. He
has the same power as Superman, and he wears the
American flag as his cape, same as Superman's colors are
patriotically themed as well. And the idea is that he
is evil because he's morally bankrupt. The problem with evil
Superman is that it's the fantasy of Superman is that
(04:52):
he's again I said this last week, is because he
is absolute power that does not corrupt, absolutely and just
figure out the way he has become such a good
person that he doesn't do that. But I find that
there are a lot of people who can't understand that,
so they automatically are like, well, if you have as
many powers, are gonna be evil a Superman? Yeah, and
(05:13):
it's become the lazy choice.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, because I'm glad that you crucle back around to
that because I was going to ask you, like, as
the you know, definitely the Superman expert of this SPoD Sure,
what you know, what do you see as being the
difference in a story like The Boys as representing Homelander, Like,
why do you find that satisfying in a way that
maybe like Red Sun is less satisfying.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I actually think Red Son's a good story.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I do too, I just couldn't come up with another
evil Superman.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Story off the top of my head Injustice.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Injustice, Yeah, because I think Red Sun is it's certainly
maybe the best or my preferred evil Superman story. I'm
not saying it's the only good one, of course, there
are other good ones.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But well, in fact, the interesting thing about it is
that both those stories are similar. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
they are that Superman and I'm calling Homelander super Man
for the sake of becomes evil because they are they
are corrupted by a government system.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, and that is the same thing with So Superman.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Is corrupted by the USSR in Red Sun, homelanders corrupted
by the current US government in The Boys. But like
the corrupt version of that story, So that is that
is why that is telling something because that Superman is
the analog for that metaphor. Yeah, whereas like if you
(06:28):
just like, well, Superman obviously gonna be evil because he
has too much power. And to me, I just feel like,
have you met nurses? Have you met doctors? Ye? Have
you met teachers who make jack nothing? But they do
it out of the goodness of their heart? That Superman? Yeah,
firefighters make absolutely nothing. Yeah, I know a lot of
I know a lot of dudes that are firefighters that
do it because they think that stopping fires is like
(06:50):
the best destiny they could ever have with their life.
That is, and they are jacked, and they are the
fittest dudes I know as well, you.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Have to be just to wear the outfit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Usually getting fit and getting powerful kind of corrupts you.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It doesn't zupan man. So it's just I think it's
a lazy choice. There you go.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I do too, And I think I think if I
were in charge of DC Comics, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I would aren't you in charge of DC comics, boy?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Because I don't want no offense. I like Marie Jravins
a lot. It's not a job that Ashley has got out.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I's not in charge of comics.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I know, but I'm just like, I don't want to
be in charge of any I don't want to be
in charge of anything, and certainly not DC comics. But
if I was in charge of DC Comics, yeah, I
think I would. Or if I was in charge of
even the Superman editorial group, I think I would have
been a MORATORI on on if anyone was pitching me,
I'd be like, don't pitch me Evil, Superman, Supergirl, super Boy,
Leis Lane, whatever, Like, give me your second messed idea. Besides,
(07:48):
they might be evil. We have Batman for that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Let's go to the next question.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, diego Anthony, Now, no, I forgot about Jesse's.
Oh sorry, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse Michael's personal friend. I'm so sorry.
Where in I'm gonna say right clearly across my eyes.
So my lid is currently swollen shut, which is why
I can't see Jesse's fantastic question. Okay, Jesse Schlutz finally
(08:17):
nailed the pronunciation, said, since they're introducing so many characters
in the upcoming Superman movie, do you think James Gunn
should introduce the legion of superheroes in a sequel movie
and then have them spin off into their own movie
or TV series. It's a complicated question because we've seen
we've seen the DC universe try to upset the alpal
(08:38):
Kart and do the antithesis of what the MCU origin is.
And it's been very very clear that James Gunn of
MCU fame has been brought in to do Kevin Flaggy
light with DC Films. So I think you're onto something
that that's probably the trajectory. Whether we're gonna call it
Justice Leegue, Justice Friends, Superman in his am Boyfriends, Legend
(09:01):
of Superheroes, like whatever, whatever name we're gonna slap on
this team, the Injustice Gang. That's what we're building towards.
I think that's really really clear if the movie gets
to be there. I do think, considering there's the entire
universe being introduced in this movie, we should have just
called it Legiti of superhero Justice League, Justice Squad, whatever
(09:22):
they're going to call them, right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, so this movie is called Superman, yeah, and it
it doesn't seem to be a Superman movie. Oh okay,
So My point is they should have called it whatever
they're gonna if they're gonna call it.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
We don't know anything that's happening in this movie, but we.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do know there's a lot of characters in it because
we've seen them. There's a lot of characters, So I
do think. I do think they didn't call it Justice
League because they're gun shy about what happened the last
time around. My hope is that it actually manages to
stand up and make a Superman story because I think
David Quntchwitt is a really good actor. I would like
to see him play a Superman.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Okay, Jason thoughts, Oh well, I'm going to answer just
stick's this question.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No and no.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, I don't know. I think the Legion of Superheroes
is a mistake. Do you think in any other medium
but comics?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I disagree? Okay, I think the only other place you
could do the Legion of Superheroes because the Legion of
Superheroes is so complicated. I think the only other way
the Legion of Superheroes works is in a standalone universe,
right like if they're if it's a cartoon and it's
only Legion of superheroes. If it's a show and it's
only Legend of Superheroes, I think the minute the Legion
of Superheroes crosses over with anybody else, it's way too complied.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I just think it's compounding the problem it. I haven't
even seen the Superman movie, but we have talked about her, like,
there seems like there's a million characters in this movie.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I think introducing another million characters a movie too is
the biggest mistake you could ever make.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I just also think the Legion of Superheroes, and I
like the Legion of Superheroes, Yeah, is such a nineteen
fifty concept, and I don't think it works in the
modern day.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's fair. I think that's total.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think we have moved past it. I don't think
it works. I think it works as a cartoon, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think it works maybe if the Legion is
five people, But I don't think it works if there's
like a two hundred and seventy five member of Legion,
where you're just like, that's the that's the with the Legions,
the same problem with so many members that you can't
keep track of it, so you don't care about any
of them.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Okay, let me ask you this then, if if, if
you're in charge of like a DC Films or like
a DC universe, sure, are there any characters from Legion
of Superheroes that you would want to pluck out like
we got Monel in Supergirl for example, we got BRAINI
Act five. Are there any characters that, even though you
think the Legion is a flawed concept for a modern audience,
that you would want to bring into your universe?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The main three you Lightning Lad and whoever the hell
the Pink guy is? And Saturn Saturd Girl.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah? I love Saturday Girl.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Remember who is his name? I don't care the three leads,
I mean they're the most interesting people. And you call
them anything else but the lead gin a superhos Yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Think that's fair. Yeah, and you give them a completely
new name.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Sure yeah. Yeah. Superman's Friends from the.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Future, Superman's Friends from the future. Why not Superman Colon
and his Friends from the Future.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Thank you Jesse for your question. Yeah, all right, Jason.
Who's up next?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Diego Anthony Nunius. He never has a question. What are
the core fundamentals to tell a good Superman story? Ashley
what does a good Superman story need for you to
be good?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oh? Man, it needs Superman, it needs Lois Length, it
needs an innocent person, and it needs kind of a
cool setting. That's pretty much it. Those are my big
Those are the big things I really want to see.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Can I counterpoint you? Of course most Superman stories are
setting in Metropolis. Is that the cool setting for you?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It can be a cool setting.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, it's almost every movie is in Metropolis.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, but we're saying story.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
A movie or television stories.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I mean Metropolis is a cool setting. I just
think Superman is not pedestrian. I don't want to see Superman.
I want to see Superman do something interesting in an
interesting place, and Metropolis can be an interesting place. Yeah.
I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Necessarily you're a big a fan of like Superman in
space or future cities, That's fine, Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm actually thinking specifically of the Greg Pock and Aaron
Couter action comics run, and I'm specifically thinking of the
little blue guy named Baka and Superman. I think Lana finds.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Him in Africa I don't remember, and.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Superman has to go and get him from there, and
he tries to bring him back to Metropolis, and that's
a complication, Like it doesn't it doesn't necessarily have to
be time. Time traveling comics is always a bit hinky
for me, and so is out o space. Even though
I know Superman is an alien, I get it, but.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm not a huge fan of Superman in space stories,
to be honest with you, really, no, not really, I
didn't know that. He's just not interesting. He needs Earth
to be interesting. He's I agree, he's already the outer
space element. Yes, just him. Yeah, I don't need to
double down on the outer space.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I don't necessarily. I do like Brainiacs as a
big bag for him, but I don't necessarily need to
see like a whole story where he's fighting brainiac on
his shit. But I think you're right. But I think
by not having Superman in an interesting locale, I think
you're kind of wasting his potential. Okay, that's fairl What
do you think you need?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I'll tell you what I think you need as
a good fundamental to a Superman story. Right after these messages,
all right, we're back talking about a Superman mailbag. So
many letters. Superman came into our bedroom window, dropped a
giant bag of mail on as it heard, I.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Forgot to answer to ask you rather, how did Diego Anthony?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
As his letter hurt you slice me right across the nose.
You're gonna have a scar for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Him and and Brago did that to you. That's a
hate crime.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yep, uh so Diego Anthony, Nunia is asked and as
a letter from the patreons over at patreon dot com
slash job, where you can support this lovely podcast link
in the description, what did you think of the core
fundamentals to tell a good Superman story? Ashley wants a
lot of space or I don't want anything. She wants
(15:22):
naked Superman. She wants big dinosaurs.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I could give her take the dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That's what she wants in her Superman stories.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I don't want him to go to like the Savage Land.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You have to have so for me, for a core
fundamental to a Superman story, you have to have Superman
in conflict with something that he doesn't understand.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, and something that he can't defeat by punching. It
is something that you often.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I was gonna get to that. Sorry, I apologize,
So he asked to not understand something, whether it is
morally or technologically or alien or something like that. So
it has to be something that he doesn't understand. You
have to have the Daily Planet staff in there because
he has to to debate this issue with them, and
they're all going to have all kinds of That's why
(16:15):
Superman needs a supporting cast, because.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Any help him align the moral compass.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Exactly, because otherwise he would just be evil Superman and
just destroy the thing that he doesn't understand or fry
it to death with this laser beer. But he doesn't
want to do that. And I also am a big
believer that Superman doesn't solve problems with violence unless he
absolutely has to. Yes, So you know, because I'm not
(16:41):
I do not believe that anybody or a person like
Superman would ever solve any of his problems by punching
it to death unless he absolutely had to. Hysteria like
Doomsday Orzod makes perfect sense. So to me, those are
like the core fundamentals, you know, I think everything else
is just set dressing. But you have to give the
(17:03):
reason why you have to give Superman something he doesn't
understand is because he has to grapple with the brain
versus heart. That's why Lex Luthor is such a good
villain because he can never understand why Lex Luthor is
doing the things that he's doing, because Superman doesn't think
that way. And it also helps if, like, you know,
you give Lois or you give Perry like the sounding
point of like, well, I don't know it makes total sense,
(17:24):
and he's like, what, I don't understand why Lowe is
talking like that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that's that's
my core fund one.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
What do you think about I know a lot of
people would just simply answer hope here.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, but the death of.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Superman is one of the Superman story's ever told, and
it's it's the death of Superman, you know, So how
important do you think the element of hope is or
do you think that's additionally like set dressing.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
It's set dressing. But there is hope in that story
because he defeats Doomsday to save Lois and Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And everybody else.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, Like the hope is is that, Like the hope
in that story is that Superman will destroy himself to
save his city.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I think you could also argue, now through the lens
of history, that the hope also comes in the reign
of the Superman that he inspires multiple people. Yeah, and
some people super folly, Yes, but he inspires others to
live up to what he's been throwing down.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But for me, that's the I mean, the interesting low
Cow is interesting. I you know, it is interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I do.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I do like Superman stories that take place in places
that aren't Metropolis, like like to mem I would. I'm
very much like if we you know, if he lives
in Metropolis, it is fun to see him in like Brazil.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yes, but I don't ya, I don't think it's as
important as like when Batman is outside of Gotham's I'm
often a bit irritated.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, yeah, No, I would like the Superman of Fly.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
He should go someplace.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, I would like to see him in other places.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I do like moments, even though I don't love Superman
in space. I do like moments where you see Superman
go to like the upper atmosphere, where he's either like
trying to collect his thoughts or like. I do like
that element, even though I don't want to see him
like go I'm not a.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, I'm I'm not a fan of Superman. Like leaving
the planet I just don't think he does it that often.
I think he would miss Lois too much.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
He was he was raised, that's his home. Like, I
know he's Kryptonian. Like, this is something that you said
to me once when I was reading I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Some Superman story.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You don't like when he says by Row yeah, because
you were like, that's it's not a he's from Kansas.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He doesn't know what that means. Why would he do.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
A Kryptonian swear?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And I know that you also don't always love when
people call him Cal.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I hate it.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
They would call him Clark because that's his name.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's not Cal is not his name.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Only Jerrell and Laura and maybe other Kryptonians would call
him that.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He would accept it, of course because he's polite, but
he wouldn't like it. Yeah, he's Clark. I agree, he's Clark.
He grew up as Clark. He's Clark. Yeah, he's not Cal.
I really, Yeah, I don't like it where like other
leaguers call him cal. Yeah, I think they would just
call him Superman.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I do like stories where I like stories where he's
kind of a crummy fighter, like he's only it at
fighting because he's fast and strong, and I do like
that he when he chooses to learn a martial art,
that he learns the Kryptonian martial Art. I think that's
kind of neat.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah. No, he doesn't know how to fight because he
never had to, because he doesn't want to, don't want
doesn't want to know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
He Batman is a better fighter if you take the
strength away.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, if you take off their powers, take Batman's gadgets away.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah. Batman whips the hell out of Wonder Woman whips
the hell.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Out of even if you take her strength away.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Wally and Clark would probably beat Wally. Yeah. How would
punch him out?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
For sure? Because he would sucker punch him. How would fighter?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
How would cheat all? He would beat him?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, lolly scrappy. He goes down fighting.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And I think Clark might even take Martian Manhunter because
he's so on all marshall powers, because Marsha Manhutter is
so intuitive.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Do you think Dinah could take him?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, I think you take a lot of people because she's.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
She trains it. Yeah, she's a way better fighter than
we give her credit.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Let's go to another question.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yes, are we going to the next question? Down?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yes, let's do Ali's top two questions.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes, okay. So Ali Hennigan asks, I haven't read a
lot of Superman. That's okay. Can you speak to your
opinion on Clark Kent the journalist and how that side
of Superman has been depicted in comic books and movies
over the years. I want to say that I believe
there's room for a story today to exemplify true modern
journalism and fighting battles with words instead of violence for
a modern audience, without beating people over the head with
(21:27):
the political messaging either. I want to say that I
co signed that idea. Oh no, Jason's standing up. I
think that's the first round of applause we've had.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
It is a great statement because I agree with you, Ali,
and I think I've said this several times in this
The thing that I miss the most in Superman stories
now is that Clark's journalism is being thrown to the side.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Can I say, without getting too deep into depressing, sure,
I think that's because the state of journalism right now
is a bit messy, because and Jason and I are
are part of the problem, because because of new media,
it's it's both the blessing and the curse of new media.
It's the thing anyone, anyone can position themselves as an
(22:13):
expert and you don't really have to earn anything to
be able to call yourself adour. It's why I don't
call myself a journalist. I'm not a journalist. I'm a host.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I'm not a journalist.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Nonsense, And I think it's trite when people who who
offer opinions try to position themselves as experts, because to
be a to be a journalist, that is a that
is a feather in your cap, that is something you
earn and there's something that you work hard toward. And
I think in the world of the Internet, it's hard
(22:42):
to know what that means. And I think that's part
of the reason why in modern Superman stories we see
that struggled with.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Can I add another piece to my previous answer to
the good fundamentals to tell us a good Superman stress,
Clark Kent has to have something to do.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yes, not just Superman one hundred.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Because Clark is usually the problem. I agree with you, Ali,
like some of the best Superman stories of all time
are Clark investigating stuff. Because one of the best episodes
of Superman the animated series is called The Late Mister Kent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Oh, it's a great episode.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The story is is that Clark Kent is an investigating
I believe, like a construction company or something like that.
But basically he comes across basically a mob connection and
the mob cuts his brakes and so he dives into
the sea and people see that Clark Kent's car went
over the edge, so they think Clark Ken is dead.
So Superman can't bring Clark Kent back to the Back
(23:34):
to Live without revealing that Clark Ken is Superman. I
agree with you. I I The problemise is, I feel
a lot of this has been given to Lois, as
it rightly should be. But yes, I would love to
see and all the President's men. If you don't unerstand
that reference, go where he is exemplifying a good story.
(23:56):
A part of this is that newspapers.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Have just they've changed and they are still changing, and
they've lost to the I'm not saying there's no good
journalism in newspaper, but it certainly lost the prestige that
had had before the nineties.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
They're just not the thing that they were in the
third like it made that Clark Kent picked the newspaper
in nineteen thirties because he thought he could keep on
top of the news of the world, and it made
sense back then. Now Clark Kent would not work at
a newspaper.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's also difficult because I know there's been stories where
Clark at various times has been a television reporter. I
don't hate that idea. The modern concept of that would
be that Clark is a YouTuber, right, that he's an
independent journalist. And I think we have difficulty scanning what
a lot of people view as like g golly, nineteen
fifty sensibility with someone who honestly would be a YouTuber.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There is a piece or a podcast. I actually don't
think Clark Kent would be either one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But I'm just trying to come to a modernization.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I don't think Clark would be on camera in any respect.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I don't think Clark don't want to be famous. That's
what allows him to be Superman.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I do think he would write a substack.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Or like a newsletter. Yeah, yeah, there.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Is a writer I won't SAME's name, ye who did
that in the New fifty two, And I actually think
it was the right impulse. I do too, and I
actually wish that they had like figured out a way
to make that work.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I also think that would be a way that you
could keep a modern version of the Daily Planet, because
we do we do see this issue with modern newspapers
going online. It's like, well, how do you pay well something?
What is the ethics of giving people access to the news?
And I think that would be interesting to debate with
these characters.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I want to finish this mail bag off with
Ali's second question.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Which definitely feels like it's a Jason coated quest.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Do you hope to ever see Superman Blue in live action? Listen? Ali,
I like Superman Blue, where Superman got electric powers, and
it's a brilliant design. I believe Divide by Stuart Immermann.
I believe. I'm not certain. I have a bunch of
action figures of him. We'll never see him in live action.
It's never gonna happen. And to be honest with you,
(25:57):
I think, as a person who likes Superman Blue, I
kind of think it would be dumb to put it
in live action. It works in a comic book, and
it would probably work in a cartoon. It's not gonna
work on it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Here's how in my opinion, here's how you do Superman
Blue in a way that is like authentic to what
we expect in modern live action films. You do it
in a sequence where Clark is first designing the Superman
suit and it's this like feet maybe I'll do a
blue suit right and you see like a flash of it.
Or you do it in a dream, or you do
it in an alternate universe, like you have to do
(26:30):
it basically as a true easter. I wink it a not.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
There used to be a television writing program called the
WB Television Writers Program where you could submit scripts and then
you would get training and they would staff you on
a Warner Brothers television.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
And then they foolishly said no, they got rid of it.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
A couple of years ago, I wrote, and I got
through one level of it. I wrote a spec script
for Superman and Lois called loess Lane Red and loess
Lane Blue.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, I remember that script. That was a good script.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It was a good script. And in that episode, Lois
Lane got jacked by I think it was Dapney Coleman
was and she got blue electric superpowers. And then the
twist of the halfway of the episode is that Dabney
did this on purpose and flipped a switch and turned
her into red, and when she was read, she attacked Clark.
(27:19):
So you might see it. It's only going to be
a one off. Absolutely never going to be in a movie.
It might be in a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
It is much more suited for a cartoon.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And I say that as somebody that loves that character,
but I'm realistic.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Didn't you also write a flash speck for that one year?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I wrote a flash spec where he meets John Fox from.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
The Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And then I wrote an arrow one where he meets
Harley Quinn.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That's right, And then that episode came back.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and I never said the joker. She always said.
She said she was from Gotham and she said no.
He was like, where did you learn in this? And
she goes, my boyfriend, Oh yeah, yeah, she said, my
boyfriend's a little crazy. Because I knew that you'd never
be able to see joke, of course, not yeah yeah,
but it was yeah, it was Oliver. It was uh yeah,
Oliver Queen versus Harley Quinn. Yeah yeah, and she had
(28:13):
hyenas and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I remember those. I remember those halcyon days.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah yeah, practice writing specscripts. That's how you're gonna get better.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Absolutely, Yeah, Krypto match tone and yeah yeah, good questions friends.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, thank you so much for all these questions. And uh,
we had a super time, did you. It's just a
little bit of a shorter episode because we're dealing with
a slammed super summer, as we should say.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Absolutely, I want to say this was really fun. I'm
glad that we're bringing mail bags back. I wrote. We
did them a lot during lockdowns. Our schedule go a
little messed up.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Whoam are you saying that we're gonna have more letters
dumped on us?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
We might and they might be a little Marvel coded.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I don't understand that reference. But oh boy, I'm gonna
get I need some Ben Gay and it's a lot
of band.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That Ben Gey, not icy Ony Tiger Mom. Oh thank
you all.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
We just want to thank you all for being great
patrons over at patreon dot com, Slash John and the jaw, I,
I N and Ashley. If they want to follow and
subscribe to this podcast anywhere else where could they do that?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
You can find this pod, of course, all over the
socials at geek History, lesson.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Check us out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, anywhere you
get your podcasts. And now it's time to talk about
what have we learned Ashley? What have we learned today
from the Superman mailbag?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Oh, we have learned so many things. We have learned
that Superman needs a heart.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I learned that Ashley thinks that Superman story should have
dinosaurs in them.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Absolutely, And we have learned that there is no such
thing as live action Superman Blue. It's not going to happen,
and if someone doesn't, they can pull it off.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Color mean bread, Sorry, leading Superhan is not gonna happen
in there. It's not gonna happen. Just be come on, guys,
it's some stuff should just be comic books.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Okay, okay, yeah, you say that to Riverdale's face.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I love I love Devil Dinosaur. You think I want
to see Devil Dinosaur in a movie.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
No, I will say, though the cartoon is very good,
that's a grill and Devils this is a very good.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
It's a cartoon. It's not live action.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
No, Devil Laser should not be Atlanta's your Red.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
T Rex like Jurassic Park, walk rock around the Roarin Universe.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Is never gonna have Are you gonna find anyone a
more perfect person to play Devil Dinosaur than Fred Tata Shore?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh? Is he who voiced Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Of course he is.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh you're not.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
No, I don't. I don't even try.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, just like Superman Blue and Legion Supers, tont even try.
That's what we've learned, don't. Thanks for your letters, even
though they gave us cuts. Enjoy this episode and enjoy
your super summer. I'm Jason in then, I'm.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Askal Victoria Robinson and Professor Jason. Would you please dismiss
the
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Class classes now dismiss
Super Friend and the listener Mark Sutton asks, I've had
this rattling around in my head since watching Superman the
Christopher Reeves Story. There's a lot of footage in the
documentary of reed family home movies, and I realized that
it would make a perfect sense for Superman to be
just like that. All he has of his birth parents
is recordings, and I imagine, especially after he has a
son of his own, he'd be obsessed with documenting everything.
(00:35):
Maybe get some tips from Jimmy on how to wear
a camera. That's it's just really heartwarming in my head,
and I think it's nice to have exist and it
is observations like that, and it is Superman coming out
on July eleventh. That is why we have answered the
halseand call to give you a Superman Mailbag episode. So
I'm gonna say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson.
(00:56):
I'm Ashy Victoria Robinson.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And in men, welcome to your podcast. That was the
opening fan affair of John Williams. A musical theme that
is so beautiful and so amazing that we can't leave
it alone, even though it's over forty years old and
probably should go to rest.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
And we also simply can't play it here for copyright reasons.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Can't do it.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
John Williams won't let us.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, John Williams, Oh good God, have a well deserved rest.
I hope you're drinking a nice my tie on a
porch somewhere and justly enjoin it. Everywhere. But we're here
to talk about Superman because Superman's everywhere. Well, he's not
really everywhere, but he seems to be. Warner Bow's definitely
shoving him down my throat and I'm tired of it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
No, anyways, he's everything everywhere, all at once.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
He is. There's a lot I we'll tell you around
Los Angeles. There's a lot of billboards of Superman prop around. Yeah,
it's everywhere. It's not really everywhere in like you know,
places like supermarkets and stuff like that, but it's everywhere
on the four five more than one on wan. But yeah,
So we decided in honor of that movie and doing
this podcast. We have a Patreon over at patreon dot
(01:57):
com slash jaw and j w i I in where
we we asked some of our friends to give us
some Superman questions. So if you want to be like
the people, it's a Superman mail bag. Superman flew into
our house and he dropped a crap tunnel letters on
our heads and we said, ow, Superman, and he said
that's what you get, and we said, okay, Jesus, all right,
back off, and then he flew away.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
We do have several Superman themed episodes that you can
go and listen to. We have the Golden Age, we
have the Silver Age, we have the Bronze Age, we
have the Modern age we just didn't want. We have
best Superman stories, we have the best Batman v. Superman stories.
We have Superman is better than Batman. So we're answering
your questions this week.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm just saying, if you want to be like the
super Friends and drop a bag of letters on top
of our head, go to patreon dot com slash John
and jwi An enjoy it. Let's kick off. Let's get
no more scuttle button to answer some questions. Answer, but
we got to answer some answer button, some Superman button questions.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Absolutely, who is kicking us off today? Jason?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
We have a one question here from Tom Trainor and
his letter cut my knee and I said, what is
it about Superman as a character that made this but
evilpe so prominent for a while across various mediums, more
than Evil Batman, Evil spider Man, and etcetera.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I don't think. I don't think the phrase for a
while needs to be added in there. I think this
is a continued obsession of people who are pitching their
first good idea, maybe not even their first good idea,
the first idea that comes. We talked about this a
little bit on our previous episode about Superman. But Superman
(03:28):
is this this bastion? Right? He is something that we
should aspire to be. He's a beacon of goodness, He's
a big blue boy, all those all those things that
people like to hurl at him as an insult. But
Superman is aspirational, and so what is antithetical to that
but badness? And that's why I think it's a real
lazy pitch. And I also think I think Evil Superman
(03:49):
has been done well enough we don't need to revisit it.
But I just think it's the inevitable comparison, like he's happy,
let's make him sad? Okay, great revolutionary? Do you feel
any differently? What do you think about this but evil
trope for Superman?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I think it's because people don't know how to write Superman. Yeah,
it's the lazy choice. Let to be honest here, there
have been stories that have been really good at pulling
it off. Superman red Son is a version. Yeah. The
best version of it, honestly is The Boys, the comic
tage more on that. Yeah, But because they've tied Homelander
(04:25):
to politics.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So, I mean he's literally Superman, but he's evil. He
has the same power as Superman, and he wears the
American flag as his cape, same as Superman's colors are
patriotically themed as well. And the idea is that he
is evil because he's morally bankrupt. The problem with evil
Superman is that it's the fantasy of Superman is that
(04:52):
he's again I said this last week, is because he
is absolute power that does not corrupt, absolutely and just
figure out the way he has become such a good
person that he doesn't do that. But I find that
there are a lot of people who can't understand that,
so they automatically are like, well, if you have as
many powers, are gonna be evil a Superman? Yeah, and
(05:13):
it's become the lazy choice.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah, because I'm glad that you crucle back around to
that because I was going to ask you, like, as
the you know, definitely the Superman expert of this SPoD Sure,
what you know, what do you see as being the
difference in a story like The Boys as representing Homelander, Like,
why do you find that satisfying in a way that
maybe like Red Sun is less satisfying.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, I actually think Red Son's a good story.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I do too, I just couldn't come up with another
evil Superman.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Story off the top of my head Injustice.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Injustice, Yeah, because I think Red Sun is it's certainly
maybe the best or my preferred evil Superman story. I'm
not saying it's the only good one, of course, there
are other good ones.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
But well, in fact, the interesting thing about it is
that both those stories are similar. Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
they are that Superman and I'm calling Homelander super Man
for the sake of becomes evil because they are they
are corrupted by a government system.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, and that is the same thing with So Superman.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Is corrupted by the USSR in Red Sun, homelanders corrupted
by the current US government in The Boys. But like
the corrupt version of that story, So that is that
is why that is telling something because that Superman is
the analog for that metaphor. Yeah, whereas like if you
(06:28):
just like, well, Superman obviously gonna be evil because he
has too much power. And to me, I just feel like,
have you met nurses? Have you met doctors? Ye? Have
you met teachers who make jack nothing? But they do
it out of the goodness of their heart? That Superman? Yeah,
firefighters make absolutely nothing. Yeah, I know a lot of
I know a lot of dudes that are firefighters that
do it because they think that stopping fires is like
(06:50):
the best destiny they could ever have with their life.
That is, and they are jacked, and they are the
fittest dudes I know as well, you.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Have to be just to wear the outfit.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Usually getting fit and getting powerful kind of corrupts you.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
It doesn't zupan man. So it's just I think it's
a lazy choice. There you go.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
I do too, And I think I think if I
were in charge of DC Comics, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I would aren't you in charge of DC comics, boy?
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Because I don't want no offense. I like Marie Jravins
a lot. It's not a job that Ashley has got out.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I's not in charge of comics.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I know, but I'm just like, I don't want to
be in charge of any I don't want to be
in charge of anything, and certainly not DC comics. But
if I was in charge of DC Comics, yeah, I
think I would. Or if I was in charge of
even the Superman editorial group, I think I would have
been a MORATORI on on if anyone was pitching me,
I'd be like, don't pitch me Evil, Superman, Supergirl, super Boy,
Leis Lane, whatever, Like, give me your second messed idea. Besides,
(07:48):
they might be evil. We have Batman for that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Let's go to the next question.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
All right, diego Anthony, Now, no, I forgot about Jesse's.
Oh sorry, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse Michael's personal friend. I'm so sorry.
Where in I'm gonna say right clearly across my eyes.
So my lid is currently swollen shut, which is why
I can't see Jesse's fantastic question. Okay, Jesse Schlutz finally
(08:17):
nailed the pronunciation, said, since they're introducing so many characters
in the upcoming Superman movie, do you think James Gunn
should introduce the legion of superheroes in a sequel movie
and then have them spin off into their own movie
or TV series. It's a complicated question because we've seen
we've seen the DC universe try to upset the alpal
(08:38):
Kart and do the antithesis of what the MCU origin is.
And it's been very very clear that James Gunn of
MCU fame has been brought in to do Kevin Flaggy
light with DC Films. So I think you're onto something
that that's probably the trajectory. Whether we're gonna call it
Justice Leegue, Justice Friends, Superman in his am Boyfriends, Legend
(09:01):
of Superheroes, like whatever, whatever name we're gonna slap on
this team, the Injustice Gang. That's what we're building towards.
I think that's really really clear if the movie gets
to be there. I do think, considering there's the entire
universe being introduced in this movie, we should have just
called it Legiti of superhero Justice League, Justice Squad, whatever
(09:22):
they're going to call them, right.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, so this movie is called Superman, yeah, and it
it doesn't seem to be a Superman movie. Oh okay,
So My point is they should have called it whatever
they're gonna if they're gonna call it.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
We don't know anything that's happening in this movie, but we.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Do know there's a lot of characters in it because
we've seen them. There's a lot of characters, So I
do think. I do think they didn't call it Justice
League because they're gun shy about what happened the last
time around. My hope is that it actually manages to
stand up and make a Superman story because I think
David Quntchwitt is a really good actor. I would like
to see him play a Superman.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Okay, Jason thoughts, Oh well, I'm going to answer just
stick's this question.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
No and no.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, I don't know. I think the Legion of Superheroes
is a mistake. Do you think in any other medium
but comics?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I disagree? Okay, I think the only other place you
could do the Legion of Superheroes because the Legion of
Superheroes is so complicated. I think the only other way
the Legion of Superheroes works is in a standalone universe,
right like if they're if it's a cartoon and it's
only Legion of superheroes. If it's a show and it's
only Legend of Superheroes, I think the minute the Legion
of Superheroes crosses over with anybody else, it's way too complied.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
I just think it's compounding the problem it. I haven't
even seen the Superman movie, but we have talked about her, like,
there seems like there's a million characters in this movie.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I think introducing another million characters a movie too is
the biggest mistake you could ever make.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I just also think the Legion of Superheroes, and I
like the Legion of Superheroes, Yeah, is such a nineteen
fifty concept, and I don't think it works in the
modern day.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's fair. I think that's total.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I think we have moved past it. I don't think
it works. I think it works as a cartoon, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think it works maybe if the Legion is
five people, But I don't think it works if there's
like a two hundred and seventy five member of Legion,
where you're just like, that's the that's the with the Legions,
the same problem with so many members that you can't
keep track of it, so you don't care about any
of them.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Okay, let me ask you this then, if if, if
you're in charge of like a DC Films or like
a DC universe, sure, are there any characters from Legion
of Superheroes that you would want to pluck out like
we got Monel in Supergirl for example, we got BRAINI
Act five. Are there any characters that, even though you
think the Legion is a flawed concept for a modern audience,
that you would want to bring into your universe?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The main three you Lightning Lad and whoever the hell
the Pink guy is? And Saturn Saturd Girl.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Yeah? I love Saturday Girl.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Remember who is his name? I don't care the three leads,
I mean they're the most interesting people. And you call
them anything else but the lead gin a superhos Yeah yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Think that's fair. Yeah, and you give them a completely
new name.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Sure yeah. Yeah. Superman's Friends from the.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Future, Superman's Friends from the future. Why not Superman Colon
and his Friends from the Future.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Thank you Jesse for your question. Yeah, all right, Jason.
Who's up next?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Diego Anthony Nunius. He never has a question. What are
the core fundamentals to tell a good Superman story? Ashley
what does a good Superman story need for you to
be good?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Oh? Man, it needs Superman, it needs Lois Length, it
needs an innocent person, and it needs kind of a
cool setting. That's pretty much it. Those are my big
Those are the big things I really want to see.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Can I counterpoint you? Of course most Superman stories are
setting in Metropolis. Is that the cool setting for you?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It can be a cool setting.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yes, it's almost every movie is in Metropolis.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah, but we're saying story.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
A movie or television stories.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I mean Metropolis is a cool setting. I just
think Superman is not pedestrian. I don't want to see Superman.
I want to see Superman do something interesting in an
interesting place, and Metropolis can be an interesting place. Yeah.
I don't.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Necessarily you're a big a fan of like Superman in
space or future cities, That's fine, Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
I'm actually thinking specifically of the Greg Pock and Aaron
Couter action comics run, and I'm specifically thinking of the
little blue guy named Baka and Superman. I think Lana finds.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Him in Africa I don't remember, and.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Superman has to go and get him from there, and
he tries to bring him back to Metropolis, and that's
a complication, Like it doesn't it doesn't necessarily have to
be time. Time traveling comics is always a bit hinky
for me, and so is out o space. Even though
I know Superman is an alien, I get it, but.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'm not a huge fan of Superman in space stories,
to be honest with you, really, no, not really, I
didn't know that. He's just not interesting. He needs Earth
to be interesting. He's I agree, he's already the outer
space element. Yes, just him. Yeah, I don't need to
double down on the outer space.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, I don't necessarily. I do like Brainiacs as a
big bag for him, but I don't necessarily need to
see like a whole story where he's fighting brainiac on
his shit. But I think you're right. But I think
by not having Superman in an interesting locale, I think
you're kind of wasting his potential. Okay, that's fairl What
do you think you need?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Well, I'll tell you what I think you need as
a good fundamental to a Superman story. Right after these messages,
all right, we're back talking about a Superman mailbag. So
many letters. Superman came into our bedroom window, dropped a
giant bag of mail on as it heard, I.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Forgot to answer to ask you rather, how did Diego Anthony?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
As his letter hurt you slice me right across the nose.
You're gonna have a scar for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Him and and Brago did that to you. That's a
hate crime.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yep, uh so Diego Anthony, Nunia is asked and as
a letter from the patreons over at patreon dot com
slash job, where you can support this lovely podcast link
in the description, what did you think of the core
fundamentals to tell a good Superman story? Ashley wants a
lot of space or I don't want anything. She wants
(15:22):
naked Superman. She wants big dinosaurs.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I could give her take the dinosaurs.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
That's what she wants in her Superman stories.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I don't want him to go to like the Savage Land.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
You have to have so for me, for a core
fundamental to a Superman story, you have to have Superman
in conflict with something that he doesn't understand.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, and something that he can't defeat by punching. It
is something that you often.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
So I was gonna get to that. Sorry, I apologize,
So he asked to not understand something, whether it is
morally or technologically or alien or something like that. So
it has to be something that he doesn't understand. You
have to have the Daily Planet staff in there because
he has to to debate this issue with them, and
they're all going to have all kinds of That's why
(16:15):
Superman needs a supporting cast, because.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Any help him align the moral compass.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Exactly, because otherwise he would just be evil Superman and
just destroy the thing that he doesn't understand or fry
it to death with this laser beer. But he doesn't
want to do that. And I also am a big
believer that Superman doesn't solve problems with violence unless he
absolutely has to. Yes, So you know, because I'm not
(16:41):
I do not believe that anybody or a person like
Superman would ever solve any of his problems by punching
it to death unless he absolutely had to. Hysteria like
Doomsday Orzod makes perfect sense. So to me, those are
like the core fundamentals, you know, I think everything else
is just set dressing. But you have to give the
(17:03):
reason why you have to give Superman something he doesn't
understand is because he has to grapple with the brain
versus heart. That's why Lex Luthor is such a good
villain because he can never understand why Lex Luthor is
doing the things that he's doing, because Superman doesn't think
that way. And it also helps if, like, you know,
you give Lois or you give Perry like the sounding
point of like, well, I don't know it makes total sense,
(17:24):
and he's like, what, I don't understand why Lowe is
talking like that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, that's that's
my core fund one.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
What do you think about I know a lot of
people would just simply answer hope here.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yeah, but the death of.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Superman is one of the Superman story's ever told, and
it's it's the death of Superman, you know, So how
important do you think the element of hope is or
do you think that's additionally like set dressing.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
It's set dressing. But there is hope in that story
because he defeats Doomsday to save Lois and Jimmy.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And everybody else.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, Like the hope is is that, Like the hope
in that story is that Superman will destroy himself to
save his city.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I think you could also argue, now through the lens
of history, that the hope also comes in the reign
of the Superman that he inspires multiple people. Yeah, and
some people super folly, Yes, but he inspires others to
live up to what he's been throwing down.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
But for me, that's the I mean, the interesting low
Cow is interesting. I you know, it is interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I do.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I do like Superman stories that take place in places
that aren't Metropolis, like like to mem I would. I'm
very much like if we you know, if he lives
in Metropolis, it is fun to see him in like Brazil.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yes, but I don't ya, I don't think it's as
important as like when Batman is outside of Gotham's I'm
often a bit irritated.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, yeah, No, I would like the Superman of Fly.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
He should go someplace.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yes, I would like to see him in other places.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I do like moments, even though I don't love Superman
in space. I do like moments where you see Superman
go to like the upper atmosphere, where he's either like
trying to collect his thoughts or like. I do like
that element, even though I don't want to see him
like go I'm not a.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, I'm I'm not a fan of Superman. Like leaving
the planet I just don't think he does it that often.
I think he would miss Lois too much.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
He was he was raised, that's his home. Like, I
know he's Kryptonian. Like, this is something that you said
to me once when I was reading I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Some Superman story.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You don't like when he says by Row yeah, because
you were like, that's it's not a he's from Kansas.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
He doesn't know what that means. Why would he do.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
A Kryptonian swear?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
And I know that you also don't always love when
people call him Cal.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I hate it.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
They would call him Clark because that's his name.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
It's not Cal is not his name.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Only Jerrell and Laura and maybe other Kryptonians would call
him that.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
He would accept it, of course because he's polite, but
he wouldn't like it. Yeah, he's Clark. I agree, he's Clark.
He grew up as Clark. He's Clark. Yeah, he's not Cal.
I really, Yeah, I don't like it where like other
leaguers call him cal. Yeah, I think they would just
call him Superman.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I do like stories where I like stories where he's
kind of a crummy fighter, like he's only it at
fighting because he's fast and strong, and I do like
that he when he chooses to learn a martial art,
that he learns the Kryptonian martial Art. I think that's
kind of neat.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah. No, he doesn't know how to fight because he
never had to, because he doesn't want to, don't want
doesn't want to know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
He Batman is a better fighter if you take the
strength away.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yes, if you take off their powers, take Batman's gadgets away.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah. Batman whips the hell out of Wonder Woman whips
the hell.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Out of even if you take her strength away.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Wally and Clark would probably beat Wally. Yeah. How would
punch him out?
Speaker 1 (20:34):
For sure? Because he would sucker punch him. How would fighter?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
How would cheat all? He would beat him?
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Yeah, lolly scrappy. He goes down fighting.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And I think Clark might even take Martian Manhunter because
he's so on all marshall powers, because Marsha Manhutter is
so intuitive.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Do you think Dinah could take him?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, I think you take a lot of people because she's.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
She trains it. Yeah, she's a way better fighter than
we give her credit.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Let's go to another question.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yes, are we going to the next question? Down?
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yes, let's do Ali's top two questions.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes, okay. So Ali Hennigan asks, I haven't read a
lot of Superman. That's okay. Can you speak to your
opinion on Clark Kent the journalist and how that side
of Superman has been depicted in comic books and movies
over the years. I want to say that I believe
there's room for a story today to exemplify true modern
journalism and fighting battles with words instead of violence for
a modern audience, without beating people over the head with
(21:27):
the political messaging either. I want to say that I
co signed that idea. Oh no, Jason's standing up. I
think that's the first round of applause we've had.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
It is a great statement because I agree with you, Ali,
and I think I've said this several times in this
The thing that I miss the most in Superman stories
now is that Clark's journalism is being thrown to the side.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Can I say, without getting too deep into depressing, sure,
I think that's because the state of journalism right now
is a bit messy, because and Jason and I are
are part of the problem, because because of new media,
it's it's both the blessing and the curse of new media.
It's the thing anyone, anyone can position themselves as an
(22:13):
expert and you don't really have to earn anything to
be able to call yourself adour. It's why I don't
call myself a journalist. I'm not a journalist. I'm a host.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I'm not a journalist.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Nonsense, And I think it's trite when people who who
offer opinions try to position themselves as experts, because to
be a to be a journalist, that is a that
is a feather in your cap, that is something you
earn and there's something that you work hard toward. And
I think in the world of the Internet, it's hard
(22:42):
to know what that means. And I think that's part
of the reason why in modern Superman stories we see
that struggled with.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Can I add another piece to my previous answer to
the good fundamentals to tell us a good Superman stress,
Clark Kent has to have something to do.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yes, not just Superman one hundred.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Because Clark is usually the problem. I agree with you, Ali,
like some of the best Superman stories of all time
are Clark investigating stuff. Because one of the best episodes
of Superman the animated series is called The Late Mister Kent.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Oh, it's a great episode.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
The story is is that Clark Kent is an investigating
I believe, like a construction company or something like that.
But basically he comes across basically a mob connection and
the mob cuts his brakes and so he dives into
the sea and people see that Clark Kent's car went
over the edge, so they think Clark Ken is dead.
So Superman can't bring Clark Kent back to the Back
(23:34):
to Live without revealing that Clark Ken is Superman. I
agree with you. I I The problemise is, I feel
a lot of this has been given to Lois, as
it rightly should be. But yes, I would love to
see and all the President's men. If you don't unerstand
that reference, go where he is exemplifying a good story.
(23:56):
A part of this is that newspapers.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Have just they've changed and they are still changing, and
they've lost to the I'm not saying there's no good
journalism in newspaper, but it certainly lost the prestige that
had had before the nineties.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
They're just not the thing that they were in the
third like it made that Clark Kent picked the newspaper
in nineteen thirties because he thought he could keep on
top of the news of the world, and it made
sense back then. Now Clark Kent would not work at
a newspaper.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's also difficult because I know there's been stories where
Clark at various times has been a television reporter. I
don't hate that idea. The modern concept of that would
be that Clark is a YouTuber, right, that he's an
independent journalist. And I think we have difficulty scanning what
a lot of people view as like g golly, nineteen
fifty sensibility with someone who honestly would be a YouTuber.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
There is a piece or a podcast. I actually don't
think Clark Kent would be either one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
But I'm just trying to come to a modernization.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I don't think Clark would be on camera in any respect.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
I don't think Clark don't want to be famous. That's
what allows him to be Superman.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I do think he would write a substack.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Or like a newsletter. Yeah, yeah, there.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Is a writer I won't SAME's name, ye who did
that in the New fifty two, And I actually think
it was the right impulse. I do too, and I
actually wish that they had like figured out a way
to make that work.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I also think that would be a way that you
could keep a modern version of the Daily Planet, because
we do we do see this issue with modern newspapers
going online. It's like, well, how do you pay well something?
What is the ethics of giving people access to the news?
And I think that would be interesting to debate with
these characters.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, I want to finish this mail bag off with
Ali's second question.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Which definitely feels like it's a Jason coated quest.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Do you hope to ever see Superman Blue in live action? Listen? Ali,
I like Superman Blue, where Superman got electric powers, and
it's a brilliant design. I believe Divide by Stuart Immermann.
I believe. I'm not certain. I have a bunch of
action figures of him. We'll never see him in live action.
It's never gonna happen. And to be honest with you,
(25:57):
I think, as a person who likes Superman Blue, I
kind of think it would be dumb to put it
in live action. It works in a comic book, and
it would probably work in a cartoon. It's not gonna
work on it.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Here's how in my opinion, here's how you do Superman
Blue in a way that is like authentic to what
we expect in modern live action films. You do it
in a sequence where Clark is first designing the Superman
suit and it's this like feet maybe I'll do a
blue suit right and you see like a flash of it.
Or you do it in a dream, or you do
it in an alternate universe, like you have to do
(26:30):
it basically as a true easter. I wink it a not.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
There used to be a television writing program called the
WB Television Writers Program where you could submit scripts and then
you would get training and they would staff you on
a Warner Brothers television.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
And then they foolishly said no, they got rid of it.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
A couple of years ago, I wrote, and I got
through one level of it. I wrote a spec script
for Superman and Lois called loess Lane Red and loess
Lane Blue.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, I remember that script. That was a good script.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
It was a good script. And in that episode, Lois
Lane got jacked by I think it was Dapney Coleman
was and she got blue electric superpowers. And then the
twist of the halfway of the episode is that Dabney
did this on purpose and flipped a switch and turned
her into red, and when she was read, she attacked Clark.
(27:19):
So you might see it. It's only going to be
a one off. Absolutely never going to be in a movie.
It might be in a cartoon.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
It is much more suited for a cartoon.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And I say that as somebody that loves that character,
but I'm realistic.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Didn't you also write a flash speck for that one year?
Speaker 2 (27:39):
I wrote a flash spec where he meets John Fox from.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
The Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And then I wrote an arrow one where he meets
Harley Quinn.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
That's right, And then that episode came back.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, and I never said the joker. She always said.
She said she was from Gotham and she said no.
He was like, where did you learn in this? And
she goes, my boyfriend, Oh yeah, yeah, she said, my
boyfriend's a little crazy. Because I knew that you'd never
be able to see joke, of course, not yeah yeah,
but it was yeah, it was Oliver. It was uh yeah,
Oliver Queen versus Harley Quinn. Yeah yeah, and she had
(28:13):
hyenas and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I remember those. I remember those halcyon days.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah yeah, practice writing specscripts. That's how you're gonna get better.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Absolutely, Yeah, Krypto match tone and yeah yeah, good questions friends.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, thank you so much for all these questions. And uh,
we had a super time, did you. It's just a
little bit of a shorter episode because we're dealing with
a slammed super summer, as we should say.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Absolutely, I want to say this was really fun. I'm
glad that we're bringing mail bags back. I wrote. We
did them a lot during lockdowns. Our schedule go a
little messed up.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Whoam are you saying that we're gonna have more letters
dumped on us?
Speaker 1 (28:53):
We might and they might be a little Marvel coded.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I don't understand that reference. But oh boy, I'm gonna
get I need some Ben Gay and it's a lot
of band.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That Ben Gey, not icy Ony Tiger Mom. Oh thank
you all.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
We just want to thank you all for being great
patrons over at patreon dot com, Slash John and the jaw, I,
I N and Ashley. If they want to follow and
subscribe to this podcast anywhere else where could they do that?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
You can find this pod, of course, all over the
socials at geek History, lesson.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Check us out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, anywhere you
get your podcasts. And now it's time to talk about
what have we learned Ashley? What have we learned today
from the Superman mailbag?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Oh, we have learned so many things. We have learned
that Superman needs a heart.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I learned that Ashley thinks that Superman story should have
dinosaurs in them.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Absolutely, And we have learned that there is no such
thing as live action Superman Blue. It's not going to happen,
and if someone doesn't, they can pull it off.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Color mean bread, Sorry, leading Superhan is not gonna happen
in there. It's not gonna happen. Just be come on, guys,
it's some stuff should just be comic books.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Okay, okay, yeah, you say that to Riverdale's face.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I love I love Devil Dinosaur. You think I want
to see Devil Dinosaur in a movie.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
No, I will say, though the cartoon is very good,
that's a grill and Devils this is a very good.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
It's a cartoon. It's not live action.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
No, Devil Laser should not be Atlanta's your Red.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
T Rex like Jurassic Park, walk rock around the Roarin Universe.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Is never gonna have Are you gonna find anyone a
more perfect person to play Devil Dinosaur than Fred Tata Shore?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh? Is he who voiced Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Of course he is.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Fantastic.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Oh you're not.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
No, I don't. I don't even try.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, just like Superman Blue and Legion Supers, tont even try.
That's what we've learned, don't. Thanks for your letters, even
though they gave us cuts. Enjoy this episode and enjoy
your super summer. I'm Jason in then, I'm.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Askal Victoria Robinson and Professor Jason. Would you please dismiss
the
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Class classes now dismiss
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