May 26, 2025 • 41 mins
In the span of a few days Disney Studios release Thunderbolts and Andor on the world. In subsequent days the movie and streaming show have grasped their respective franchises by the reigns and breather new life into both through strong telling from a certain point of view. We explore why putting humanity at the forefront of both the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the Star Wars franchise has brought both critical and audience success. Thought we'd have nothing nice to say? It's time for you to listen along and some crow, yourself!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Thunderbolts and and Or are kind of the king and
queen of all things? Geeked him right now, which one's
the king and which one is the queen?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, I guess is the leader of the Thunderbolts, and
then and Or I guess and Or is the king.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
And you don't be so pedestrian. Thunderbolts is the king,
and Or is the queen. Well, Die is a beautiful queen.
So absolutely, yeah, they both look green into crown. Everything's fine.
He's a beautiful man, so let's go for it. Absolutely.
Jason and I have both had really unique experiences with
both of these properties, being I would say pleasantly surprised
(00:46):
with our reactions to both of them. And there's a
really really great Indie Wire article called Thunderbolts and Or
Redeem Struggling Franchises, And so I think we're gonna dig
down on that and we're gonna very happily eat some
crow because you know, even though this is the Internet,
we can admit when we're wrong, right Jason, Well, I
technically no, we've never been wrong. This is I want
(01:08):
to point out.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
By the way, it's funny that this Anywhere article says
that both of these things are struggling franchises when they're
made by this same company.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Hmmm, this is an interesting observation the products here, and
we'll drill down into some more interesting observations as we
say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I'm Asha
Victoria Robinson and I'm Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And then this is the podcast that we sometimes called
the Mine University, but it's mostly called geek hash Lesson,
where we drill down into one topic in a little
bit less than an hour, something fun from pop culture
and today. You know, a couple of weeks back, we
did an episode about the Thunderbolts, and like I said,
we have to eat some crow here. We were not
(01:48):
infused about that movie because I will say the marketing
campaign made the movie seem like it was gonna be
Suicide Squad three.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Reducks, and that was We wanted Thunderbolts. We didn't want suicide.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And we and we're very big fans of the comic
book Thunderbolts, and so we we basically did a whole
big episode. I don't remember the name of the episode,
go look in the feed, it's whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And she was should Thunderbolts have been in MCU face once.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, we were trying to like, I uh, the answer
is no. But we were Look, that's how you advertise
podcast now people. You put a little title that's out
there that's a little bit salty, and everybody goes, what,
I gotta listen to this.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
We were wondering if this was even the right time
to be doing Thunderbolts, even though we had a pretty
strong idea that it seems early to way that's the
reveal at the end.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
We were correct on that that the reveal was going
to be the reveal. We're I mean, we could say
it New Avengers. The movie seek actually called New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It's literal.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Disney put it on all the posters, so it's not
really don't even have to do a spoiler one three
days after premiere it. So don't be mad at us,
be bad at smashis stand in that TikTok question. It'll
be interesting is will they still call it Thunderbolts when
you're looking at it in Disney Plus or will it
be like Thunderbolts or it will be New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Or vice versa. Yes, they're gonna put both of them.
Because of se O. They created a bunch of problems. Yeah,
for the Blu Ray Disney plus people that for the
marketing team. Right, if you worked in marketing on Thunderbolts,
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But also it's your fault. I understand why they didn't
call it New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I do too. Uh, Thunderbolts is a cool name as well. Yeah,
I think it's a great name for a superhero team.
But what the movie does in a lot of ways
is it really subverts your expectations on the type of
storytelling and the types of origin stories that you get
for superheroes in general and the MCU specifically, because, as
(03:41):
I like to say, everything of feels like a Redux
of Iron Man one, and when something doesn't, it gets
really exciting. And I think that was what was so
exciting about Thunderbolts was we actually got to see a
lot of these characters struggle, and because they weren't introduced
in their individual movies, it was kind of interesting to
see them all be odd boys and girls together and
(04:01):
then be strengthened by having to work together. See.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But that's not the thing that I think makes the movie. Well,
I do think that you're you're right that like it
having a theme outside of superheroes, Yeah, was the strength.
But I actually think I'm trying to pull up a list.
I apologize, I'm a little split attention right now.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Why do you talking about list?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Joke?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I'm looking at I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Pull up the list of like everything Marvel Studios, including
the TV shows and the movies, because I kind of
wanted to look at everything since in Game, yeah, and
sort of judge it because we all agree that we
are sort of in a Marvel Studios downtour. We're even
a Disney downturn right now, and I kind of wanted
to look back at everything since in Game, which is
(04:44):
like kind of the one that I think everybody kind
of agrees with was the last universally agreed one, and
see if there had been one that it popped between them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But you know, the one that comes to mind for
me is a Vision and Scarlett Witch, which which a
one division rather which also kind of deals with a
lot of the heaviness that Thunderbolts is putting to the forefront.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, but I don't think everybody agrees to that universally.
But I don't even know if anybody grees universe. But anyways,
the point I'm trying to make, yes, is that I
think the reason why Thunderbolts UH has been getting positive reviews,
and I think the reason why we enjoyed it is
because it's a movie.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, it's a standalone movie.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It's not really that connected to many other things. Now
it is sort of a Black Widow sequel. We have
to acknowledge that task Master, Red Guardian and Widow part two.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Who whatever they're going to be calling her now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Probably White Widow or from that movie.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
This includes all the TV shows. Okay, great, she does.
So you have a list.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So so since in game we have one division dead point,
what that's I'm sorry, this my list is weird. I
don't know what this list is that you've given me,
but it's way out of order.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, maybe it's the Colonel all twenty you can give. Actually,
I think it's the same. If I can find you another one.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I think you handed me when things the Marvel crun,
I know, which is insane. That's why it made I
was looking at it and I was.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Like, this makes use to say Deadpool was like, I
didn't think Deadpool was out.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
All Apparently Deadpool Willverrine happened in twenty twenty four, but
uh more, Endgame happened in twenty twenty three, even though
it came out in twenty twenty nineteen, because it's the blit.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, you gave me the Krona loss. I'm sorry. I
felt so proud that I finally got a list. This
list is insane.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
This list is straight up insane, Like Secret Invasion apparently
doesn't happen till twenty twenty six, neither does Ages all along.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh boy, I forgot that Thunderbolts existed.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It says Thunderbolts happens in twenty twenty seven. That is
flip and stupid. I don't think that's true. Uh So, anyways,
I at least have it has a bunch of different
stuff in here, but I think the only one that
people might be shouting out that might have been in
Universally Love. And again I'm not saying Thunderbolts is University Love.
Settle Down Everybody. Yeah, is maybe Spider Man No Way Home,
even though I'm not a huge same Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, but it was the popular one for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And I bet you a bunch of people at Deadpool
was shouting at dead Pool and Malverreen because it made
a million dollars. But again, that's one where I'll defend that.
I'll be like, box office does not determine critical mass
or you know, like the yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
There's I mean there's a lot of movies as well
that are very celebrated that were not box office success,
called classics, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I would also even argue that that's the worst of
the three Deadpool movies in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I sure have not seen all of them.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But I think it's because it wasn't connected to anything.
It wasn't really it was It told a complete story,
which really surprised me.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Which is also something that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Marvel I feel has been really bad at lately, Like
I feel like every has to tie into everything and
it's crazy because I think I said these to you
when we walk out of the theaters.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
This is an Avengers movie very much so.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It is an It's literally an Avengers movie. Yeah, but
it doesn't feel like one. It doesn't, and I think
that's what makes it good. It does feel like.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
If you live on that one block by the train
station in New York, that your insurance has to be
way out of control. If you live in the MCU, though.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You might want to make let the audience understand that
joke you just made.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So when you see them outside where they eventually give
the press conference at the end where they are sort
of goaded into announcing that they are a team and
they are the new Avengers. That's a very specific block
outside of a subway station in central and we have
seen it ad nauseum in the MCU. It must be
(08:51):
pretty accessible to shoot on or easy to shut down.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, here's the other kicker, and here's the thing of
why this movie also stands out to me.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Tell me, because they actually shot in you they did.
Some of the exteriors were in New York.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I mean they actually shot in New York. They actually
shot in Utah, and they actually shot in wherever the
opening sequence is with the only that happens.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah where she where she's.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I want to say, Indonesia somewhere. Yeah yeah, they actually
shot in those places. Yes, for the last now I've
bit of this have been pandemic, and I understand, But
for a while now, Marvel movies have been taking place
in nebulous volume town. Yeah yes, thor Love and Thunder
and Anthem and Man Quantumnia are all on a volumes.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Loki. Yeah, Loki's the volume iss looking show I've seen
maybe ever.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Lokis a lot on the volume, yeah too. And there
was just something to see a superhero movie. And now
look now look, Avengers number one didn't I don't think
shot a single day in New York. I don't know
if they do the movie shot yeah, yeah, yeah, but
there was something to me that made the movie feel
more tactile by seeing it on the streets.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
In New York. It's interesting because I'm going to use
a word that I don't actually think should be used
to describe the superhero movies, and you and I jibe
against it. Sometimes it felt dare I say, grounded in
its storytelling, and I think a huge part of that
is because they were boots on the ground at least
for some portion of it, in the location where all
of the drama was supposed to have been taking place.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's the thing because, like you know, you talked
tap on, this movie is a lot about mental space
and mental energy and how you feel.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I mean, it's Bob Voyd century has been all of
us at some point in our lives.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and it's interesting because there's there's a thing that
I've always been told where they're like, even if you're
widing a thing that is about a group of people,
you still have to write the story anchored around one person. Yes, Yeah,
And I do feel like this movie is very based
around Eolena.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You can see a bit them.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Being like, we gotta have a lady lead this of
injury seat, and I'm not mad that it's Florence b Yeah.
And there is when you look at the first Avengers movie. Yeah,
that movie is anchored around Steve Rogers. Yes, like it
is about him and the modern world.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes, and him becoming the leader of this team.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, And a lot of it is him being like,
do my methods still work?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah? And you know by the end of it he's like,
oh no, they still work.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
One of the funniest moments is I understood that reference. Yes,
like that gift is still being used to this day.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, and so like I think that like that we've
had like like I couldn't tell you who whose story
is the Eternals, I have no clue.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, well that's just because I don't know the name
of most of the turtles.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I couldn't tell you whose story was the Marvels. Yeah,
couldn't tell you whose story Singer Invasion was.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Couldn't tell you whose.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Story of a Man even though it's titled a Man,
And I don't know, like and I felt like I
had a very like the movie is very is very simple.
It's very it's very much like Ylena doesn't think she
has a place in the world. She gets a team,
she has a place in the world. That's the story,
and she gets a fan. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We have the strong theme of found family across all
superhero media.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And it's very universal. It's very easy to understand, Well,
everyone's got a family. Yeah, And I think like Marvel
has been, Like, I don't know what the story of
Spider Man No Way Home is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's it's a clip show. Look, it's it's just like
da I hope, I truly hope if you love Spider
Man No Way Home that you love it so very much.
But it is not a movie. It is a clip show.
It is a PowerPoint presentation. To me, it's a.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Movie where, uh, you know, a multiversal villain that you've
never met before is going to kill your family member
and somehow that makes you really and somehow that is
your secret origins start.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
The whole point of that movie to me is redeeming
Andrew Garfield as Spider Man, honestly. But what I wanted
to say about Thunderbolts and to your point about like
focusing it around Yolena as like maybe not the POV character,
but certainly the lead of the film, is that it's
interesting because I think it's arguably a better introduction to
this version of Yolena, who is very different from the
common and like, yes, then the Black Widow movie and
(13:01):
if you want to know more about comic book Yolnina
and we do have an episode on her from when
that movie came out. I like this version of Yolena
way better than I liked her in Black Widow. And
it's not because like Florence p was amazing and she's
always been amazing. I don't think it's that her performance
has changed. I just think the writing is so much
better on her in this episode, in this uh installation.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, it's still a weird team. I mean, all right,
so let's you know, let's flip the stand or yes,
you know, because I think there would be no doubt
because I think a lot of people probably hop on
me and George Ray in the same way that I did.
How was that, Jason, Well, I don't. I think a
lot of as skipped season one.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Hu.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I think a lot of us were just like, I
don't really care about this side character that I know
dies in Rogue one. Yeah, yeah, I like Diego Luna. Sure,
but let's be fully honest here. Yeah, and Or is
not that interesting in Rogue one. He really isn't well.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And as we learn from a recent gacash Lesion extra,
I don't I don't like any Diegos.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, he's he's kind of he's kind of a guy
that just drives the show.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
He's kind of a jerk too in Rogue, which look,
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be, but he's
kind of a shirt Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, well, here's the full thing. And Or is kind
of a jerk. Okay, that is his character. But you know,
in two hours we don't really understand how why you know,
what's been done to earn that be here yet we
fell off. So everybody hold on to a second.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Technical different you can talk, you don't have to do
the jeopardy Well spoiler alert, one of us is an
indoor expert because one of us has seen it. But anyways,
I slep on season one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Then I saw the advertisements for season two and I
was like, probably still not going to watch that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah. And then the first couple episodes.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Came out and they got glowing reviews, and I kind
of did a little bit of research and I found
out that everybody had glowing reviews of season one as well. Yes,
and so I feel like a lot of the world
watched and or the way that I did, where they
are like they saw the season two ads and we're like, oh,
it's only two.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Seasons, Well, okay, I'll watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, And then started watching it and basically we're like,
holy cow, this show is great.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
The show is really good. Because you said that you
think it's one of the top tier science fiction shows period.
Forget Star Wars. I think so. Yeah, I think so,
which from from you particularly is high praise. I think
it's in contention. Yeah, but it's funny.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I'm gonna tell you why I think Star Wars and Or.
I don't like calling it and Or, even though sometimes
I've seen it called and or a Star Wars story,
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I've seen it. I don't like a Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Other places that I've seen it called Star Wars and Or,
But I will say the title screen just says and.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And Uh. I will tell you I love their title screens.
Oh do you?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh my god, They're my favorite. I'll give you a
little description. Everybody, but everybody, We're gon we're gonna talk
a little about the title screens of and Or. Uh. We're
gonna take a real quick bick. We're gonna flip into
Star Wars time. We're gonna talk.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
About it again.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
How these two broken franchise sort of weirdly have released
these two projects this year from the same company and
have gotten their groove back. Yeah, talk and Or talk
Ready for this gig, kisscher Lesson, We're back. We're talking
about how Disney's gotten their groove back because they lost their.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Own crow because they make Star Wars and Marvel. But
they seem to be on the.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Upswing and they well, they weirdly have released two projects
with two strong points of view.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We just did a bunch of thunderbolts.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Talk. Now we're gonna be talking about Anne and Oh.
I dropped this in thing. I knew I was gonna
love and Or when I watched episode one, when I
saw the title screen.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, well why hous okay convinced me.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I it's very simple, Yeah, but it's moody as f
So I'm a huge fan of nineteen seventies sci fi
movies True Omegamn, Soiling, Green Planet, The Age. Put them
in my THHX. I'll put even in George Lucas's THX one, one, three,
(16:48):
eight into There two thousand and one Space Odyesty, I
love Logan's run. That type of suit just moody, you know,
more vibes than feeling. I just like that we've lost that.
We do not make movies like that. Before the opening
title screen of and Or has music that is just
(17:11):
very tonal, It's like very impressionable. And then all it
is is a star field and the music just builds
and the music just gets.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Very like two thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, As the music builds the star you can see
that there is an object that is turning, and because
of it is turning, it is hitting like the starlight. Yeah,
and what it is is the title.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
It's the and Or. Oh that's interesting because that that
immediately evokes for me something that you like. And I
think is very boring, which is Star Trek. The Emotional
Picture also does a lot of a little bit later
than the seventies, but like also does a lot of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's considered to be the and OR main theme, but
all it is is like it's sort of like a
trumpet that just goes.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So it's like the Lost it just gets.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Loudy, and then the and Or like credits just turn
and then it's like fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Is it just that it's different, Like what about it
speaks to you? What I like about it is?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I think is it's because it's very similar, I think
to the opening crawl of the nineteen seventy seven Star Wars,
and it's just like, oh, this is different, Like we
just go bar and then like text and then and.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
If you think about it, in the original film, the
crawl was like revolutionary and it was so new and unseen,
which is why it's become iconic.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, and I think this is sort of evoking that,
but in a weird way because I'm moving it forward,
but it's showing you a starfield and then you just
hear this moody as f music and you're just like,
what am I I yeah, very quickly was like what
am I watching?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And then you were just like, oh, I see something?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
What am I?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What is that I can't see? And then the music
just keeps going and then it turns and you sees
its and Or and and I will tell you that
as as I get. And also here's the other thing. Yeah,
Tony Giroy, the show winner, and Or is such a genius.
He changes the music every episode so interesting. So it's
(19:08):
still that moody music, but sometimes it's a different instrument or.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Sometimes it's also versions of a theme.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, so like it's a nice it like to me,
it drops you into this. This is not gonna be
what you expect.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Shout out to Nicholas bright Hell and Brandon Roberts, who
are the two composers who've worked on the series.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh the music and Ors is fantastic. Yeah, but is
it writing music for you? Yes, but it's pretty intense.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And Or is intense. And this is why I think
and Or has sort of like revived Star Wars. So
and Or I've said this in a lot of ways
because I've heard people say and Ors is my favorite
Star Wars thing. Ever, I'm gonna say something to you
all that I have said.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
This Jason and is my favorite Star Wars thing. Ever,
it's bullshit. What this is the Internet, let's fight. And
Ors has little to anything to do with Star Wars
except the fact that it's produced by Disney and called
Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That is the only Star Wars thing about it. The
thing that makes and Or work is that it is
a story, and they are characters that you could rip
out of Star Wars and put in any franchise, and
by the ability to do that, it's not Star Wars
at all.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Okay, So just to sort of bring it back, I
think it's very similar to I think Thunderbolts does that
as well, where like you could take those archetypes and
you could take those characters and they're basic because none
of them have superundurs substentiary and you could put them
in any other superhero universe and it was still work.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And Or is the same way. And Or, Wow, you.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Really nailed at professional television.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
And in the first season there is hardly any Star
Wars anything. There's no Jedies, there's no x Wing. Yeah,
there's you see, maybe I think three Stormtroopers in the
entirety of season one. Yeah, you see Imperial dudes here
and there.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, but there's a difference between the dudes and the
hats and the stormtroopers.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, and you'll see Chorissant, but Coraissant is not the
Chorisant you've seen in other Star Wars movies. You there's
no fanfare, there's there's no like heroes or villains. There's
no nobody ever mentions the Force. You know when the Force.
The Force is mentioned once in and Or. Oh really
it's the second to last line of the series.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Oh so they really earn it. Yeah, they really wait
for their moments like that.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's the second someone they made the Force with you. Yes,
it is this with you, it is and you'll like it.
It's your it's your good old friend Bail Organa. I
do love Bail, which he's the only person to mention
the Force and both seasons of Andor.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's you know what. Yeah, I like that. That's Clara. Yeah,
can you talk because one of the Star Wars things
that I do know is in and Or is actually
something you like?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You really like the little droid guy. Oh yeah, the
doggy droid b B. So this is another thing. So Okay,
this is I know you're actually has not seen and
is probably not gonna watch and.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Or, but I'm fascinating, but your fascination.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So here's the thing. Here's how I knew I could
be remembering this wrong. Sure, this is how I knew
I was in on Andy. Yeah, okay, so that title
screen happens, that's an and Or theme. They just kind
of speed it up. I did the five notes weirdly,
and it cuts this little crappy town kind of looks
(22:29):
like most Iley could be anywhere. You later learned a
place called Fedricks, which I don't think has ever been
in Star Wars ever before. It's Brandy Plant and you
see this little dumpster looking called b and he's d
D just driving through town. There's some like alien dogs
come by, and he stops because he's scared of him.
And then he keeps going and he drives suit the town,
(22:51):
and he drives into a junk yard. And when he
drives us into a junk yard into this ship casting
an and Or is sleeping in the ship and he
starts bumping Cassian and is like, Cassian, I got too
far you you know. That is the opening shot of
and Or. Yeah, and it's the thing I like about
it is that this is the first time that IOLA
(23:12):
felt like Star Wars has actually felt lived in. I
think Andor it does a very good job. And I
think a lot of previous Star Wars. I think the
Obion series did this. I think the Auhsoka series did this.
Star Wars just seems like fake space crap now and I.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Like very shiny, polished.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, it feels like it's made to sell toys. Yeah,
and Or feels like these are real places with real
people living on these plants.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Well to your point, how many and Or action figures
are there, Jason, I only know there's one. Yeah, I
found one one right, uh no, they made one for
this show.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And he does have that little cue little droid. Okay,
but that droid Okay, so we don't talk about there's
you know the calf. The thing about Star Wars, there's
always a droid, right, Yeah. In the Obion series had
a little dingy droid. That because the little mousey droid. Yeah, yeah,
because they try to sell There's Chopper.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
There's R two D two Yeah, Chopper, Greatest Redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You a Star Wars, What can you do with the droid?
Not much, right, how can you beat R two D
two and see three boo you can't?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well you make it BB eight and everyone goes, that's cuter.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It was a cute, good time. But BBA still didn't
live up to the thing. Absolutely b or b too
EO or whatever. They gave him a stutter, yeah, they
they made him a dog.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
A dog. He's basically the family dog.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, and that's like it's such a thing where you're
just like, wow, Star Wars been over around for like
fifty years now almost, Yeah, and how did nobody do this?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Like there is I'm gonna say, this was my whole chest.
It's been pitched before. How is this the series that
gets it across the finish line?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Spoilers There is a character in and Or Yeah that
dies in the first season.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Oh spoiler, yeah, I just they all die.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
B well, yeah, ten Or dies ten year old movie,
and b doesn't want to leave their home because of
this person dying. Yeah, and like and there and so
this other person is like there's this beautiful scene. This
other person is like, you've got to come with us, now,
you got to come with us, and like the be
(25:15):
the Begroid is basically just like I missed them and
missed them and and just like, no, stay here, and
and the guy is like, I'll stay here for one
night or and she the Joy goes, will you stay here?
And he goes, no, this is not my home. And
he and the little Joy goes, but my charging station
is here.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And you're just like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You know. But but it's so shocking to me because again,
Star Wars is about when you look at what George
Lucas made. It's about a boy looking to the horizon.
He will because his dad owned an auto part store
in Modesto, California, and George didn't want to go look
at the articuts are a parts store. He wanted to
be a movie finker.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So it's about the.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Dreams and horizon and magic. It's about Errol Flynn and Shy. Yeah,
that's Star Wars. It's Jedi's people. It is not the Rebellion.
It has never been the Rebellion.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And I think the genius thing about this is that
Tony Gilroy, because I will tell you I rewatched Rogue
one after Angeler because I was curious. I'm not a
huge fan of Rogue one. Rogue one does become better
now that I have the and Or context. Sure, but
they didn't make that knowing all that stuff, so I
don't get. But anyways, and Or is still very Star
(26:30):
Wars for Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, and Or is not Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And like the second season does get closer, but it
is this thing where like the genius thing is that
Tony Gilroy took this franchise and was like, no, no, no,
what would it be like if people actually had to
deal with Grand Moth Tarkan?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, what would that actually be like? It would be
hell and you would hate it. It's interesting because I
can see sort of like similar emotion themes carrying between
this and what it is is it's taking these fantastical
characters and it is drilling down on the harder parts
of the human experience through the lens of like, oh,
(27:12):
we're fighting super villains or oh we're taking on the
empire because fascism is fiction. I think it's.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Also making them very universal. Yeah, because I think a
lot of stuff in and Or is very universe.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Then all the dress you can get along with all
the trappings and the dressings of the genre, and and
it ultimately doesn't matter if you've seen Rogue, or if
you've seen Black Widow or Winter Soldier, like because you
can figure out everything else basically from context clues. Yeah.
I also think it's making things very relatable. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And I think it's so interesting to me because I
would have told you, like again, I still think this
to the day, I would have been like, I think
Star Wars needs go away.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I do think that.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I do too, But I think the same thing about Marvel.
I think they just need to have a little nap.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
But it also shows me that it's like, man, when
a creator has really good idea, will you look up
the director and writer of Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yes, I also said this to you the other day.
It just because we talk a lot of on this
podcast about like do we want a series? Do we
want a movie about x y zed property? And it
just proves to you that the right creator, at the
right time, with the right idea and not too much oversight,
can get something like that across.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It also tells me too, because again I, like I said,
I did not like and Or in Rogue. Yeah, and
I will say what Tony Gilroy has done with and
Or has made him into Like I'm like this is
this is one of the all time al great Star
Wars characters.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Now directed by Thunderbolts Asterix. The new event is Jake
Something Right, Jake Schreier, Jake Schreier, and it's screenplay by
Eric Pearson and Joanna Callo. Eric Pearson also wrote Black Widow.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I do know that Jake Skryer is that you
said is a same Shreer s C h R e
I E R. The rumor's going around our is that
he's the front run for x Men now because based
on Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yes, I saw that rumor, and I have to.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Say, I'm not super warm on Oh you're not on x.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Men in the MC. We all know it was warm
and him getting the job. So if you've listened to
I was gonna say, we all know, if you've listened
to this podcast for long enough, you know that I
just I like my x Men in a little pocket universe.
I'm down for him being the X Men guy. Yeah,
I'm down to see it.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I think it's so interesting to me because this is
the one Thunderbolts they said that. I read an interview
with Kevin Fige where he said that we are now
gonna prioritize quality over quantity.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Bolly, you wouldn't. Shouldn't have always been the motto Disney,
you would think, right, Yeah, yeah, I understand that that's
him doing damage control, and I really do. And he's
the face.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, it's also Disney being like, we've had a lot
of bombs and we're not going to give you as
much money.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Its explosive.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
But anyways, they claim that Thunderbolts is the first one.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Of this. I don't think they knew that. I don't
think they knew that either.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I don't think they knew that. I think they're claiming
it but as a red car, which is fine either way. Yeah,
I just want to say that. I'm like, it's interesting
because we have to They're both Disney products, both big franchise.
Marvel and Star Wars wore the biggest ones of the world.
They're mostly even Thunderbolt's getting, I mean, and Or is
getting by the way, you know, and Or. Weirdly, and
(30:20):
Or holds an IMDb.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Record highest rated Genre, highest rated star Wars the I
Am Apparently.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And Or is the only television show on IMDb that
has five nine point five episodes in a row. According
to IMDb, ratings.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
That makes me roll my eyes at the fans a lot,
because I'm sure I will never watch it. Yeah, yeah,
I'm sure the show is great. But I'm like, I
don't think Andrew's the best television show of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, no, no, but I do think it has more
than more than one nine point five.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Oh I'm not I'm not nay saying that, but that's
a bunch of Star Wars hands clamoring to IMDb. But
that is interesting, that's very interesting. Like, no, you are right,
I do think Andor.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I would put Andor in the in the lexicon of
one of the best sci fi shows of all time. Yeah, easily.
Now it also gets that because it only has two seasons,
you know. But anyways, it's strong. Yeah, but I think
the interesting thing about this is that, my god, like
just let artists Dave.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Bart do a take. Yeah, like a strong point of view,
because that is something Andor. You know, there's that Star
Wars anology that's like, from a certain point of view,
that is certainly what Andor seems to be.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Well, it's one of these things where I saw a
lot of people talking about this on Reddit, where some
people were like, I don't know if I want like
Space Wizard Star Wars anymore. Yeah, Like, and I kind
of agree because I'm kind of like, man, I don't know,
like what do all these I just watched like this
cast of like twenty five people because Andor was a
big cast yea of like twenty five different rebels all
(31:52):
just go through hell to like get these desk star
plans and then Luke Skawar comes in and gets all
the credit. You know, space is you know, and then
I don't know Thunderbolts. You and I talked about this.
I walked out of Thunderbolts being like, is Marvel back? No?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
We literally were like did you did you like it?
Really nice touch? Yeah? So I don't guess there were
I will say there were parts of Thunderbolts I liked
less than other parts.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Of Thunderbolts, and there was not a perfect There.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Were parts of Thunderbolts where I was like, oh, I
see this is the yuck getty yuck part of the MC.
But overall I was just so impressed that I was
engaged by it the whole time.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I would give it a B plus if you were
to ask me a solid B plus, I would agree, Yeah,
I'd watched it.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
If it came on TV, I watched it again. I
would happily watch it. Yeah, there's lots of some more movies.
I know.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yes, that was exactly what you said. It kept my attention. Yeah,
it just it was a movie.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And I do want to acknowledge that for both of
these are they better in comparison because both of them
have had questionable runs for the last couple of years. Yes,
but I don't think that that does take away from
their best qualities.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I agree, although I will make the exception that I
think that helps Thunderbolts. I think that doesn't help and Or.
I think I do think it will explain that well no, no, no,
and Or would have been I think and Or would
have been lauded no matter where it came out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I see, I see, I see Thunderbolts.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I think maybe a few years earlier, maybe not as
big a pump a bump.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I'll agree with you, because Thunderbolts had come out immediately
after A Winter Soldier, I think we would have been
like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, even though I do
think it should have come out earlier, or even the
first movie after in Games, Yes, right, I don't know
if we be we did need another Avengers movie after.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think surely as positive because we're also like we
have in our heads these all these Disney Plus series
that were kind of like that you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And I are certainly not everyone is mixed on, but
you and I are sorry.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Certainly missed well and then go back to and or
of it all. Like I watched the Obi Wan Kenobe
series and I was like, I'm never watching Star Wars again.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, and I know for you that was a particularly
difficult blow.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I was like I'm out. Yeah, I'm I'm out
on all these shows. Yeah, They're just not for me anymore. Yeah,
which is very interesting. So yeah, I don't know, Ashley,
what would be your final thoughts on all of this
or you know, like it is interesting, they're both Disney.
It's just so interesting big franchises.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
This has happened in the same year too, and likes
of each other end it last week. Yeah, yeah, you know,
not to be too tried about it, but like it
does give me hope.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's also because it's almost about two things that like, yeah,
we were not positive on Thunderbolts. I was in I
was like, who wants the hand or show no truly
and both of these things are just like pretty good.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, watch again. It gives me hope because I think
there is I think there's a lot of things happening
in genre right now where there's genre fatigue. There's event fatigue,
there's comic book movie fatigue, there's a lot fatigue. Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot against these types of projects right now,
(34:57):
which is why I think you're seeing the rise of
more grounded things like the Taylor Sheridan Show. I mean,
even something like Watson is still a character with a superpower.
He's super smart. Yeah, you know. But but it gives
me hope that even if we see a reduction in
the amount or the styles, that there is still room
(35:18):
for these types of stories and for them to be
successful and to say something really, really meaningful. And that
delights me, and that it gives me hope for you know,
we got a big summer ahead of us, we got
a Superman and we got a Fantastic Four coming, we
got a Mission Possible, Like it gives me, It gives
me hope for all of these things that are coming
(35:40):
out that like, no matter what, no matter how many
times we've revisited these stropes, there's still something new to say, Like,
I think there's nothing but positivity to take away from
the fact that both of these are critical successes.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
But I'm also going to say something else. I think
the big reason why to me, for me personally, yeah,
these are both successful is because they are telling different stories.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And I think a big thing that I am not
excited about, especially with franchises, all the major franchises right now,
is just telling us the same story five times. I agree,
And Marvel's guilty of that. Star Wars is guilty of that,
and I think David Thrones is guilty of that. DC
is guilty of that. They're all guilty of And it's like,
and both of these to me are different stories. Or
(36:29):
there's stories that are just like packaged in a way
that I haven't seen before.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
They're stretching what your expectations are.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, and it makes them challenging, Yeah, and interesting. Yeah,
they are challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Not challenging like you're going to have a rape. I
mean maybe you will, and maybe that's okay too, but
like they are, it's more challenging to watch something like
this than to watch the same thing that you've seen
eighty five times.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Wandor is very challenging for a certain group of people
on the internet because I don't think they realize who
the empire is right now.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, well that's a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I never thought they would make a Star Wars show
where they're going to be like, no, no, no, by the
end of this episode, we're going to convince you why
you probably may want to go bomb a building.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And they've done it. And I did it, Guard, I
was gonna say, and then Daddy Scars Guard came down
from as Garden and said, I will do this for you.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So yeah, I guess you know, I don't know interesting.
We wanted to We just wanted to mention and we
wanted to ecro yeah, saying what I'm gonna say, go
watch and Or and then also be like we were
right and wrong and wow, Like I just have artists
to make art.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I just want people to know, like it's okay to
be wrong, and it's okay to be surprised by stuff.
It's even when you don't like saw writers to make art.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah. Yeah, because I was telling you I was getting
pretty burned out here pretty quick on some of my stuff.
And yeah, these two things excited me again, me too,
really excited me.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I hope we have a version of this conversation again
in the summer.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Do you think we're going to get a MAMC movie
where somebody teaches you how to put a bomb on
a building? It'd be like, you're gonna put a bomb
in a building, You're gonna be excited about it.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I'm gonna argue that we've probably already seen that somewhere. Yeah, yeah,
definitely in some stuff I probably haven't watch.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I don't know about that. I don't think we've seen that.
I think the superheroes are pretty safe anyways.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah. Anyways, Also, I hope so if you were if
you were wondering the location for the beginning of Thunderbuss
was Quala Lumpur Oh okay, cool, So Malaysia, So you
were close with the Indian.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Clos you were definitely in the right area of the
planet that was in the right ocean vector.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, for sure. Continent so and then.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Grand Central Station. I know that, yeah, because we said that.
Sorry DC. When I when I were I have to
go to New York, dec Comics would always put me
in the hotel right across from Grand Central Station.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So I was very familiar.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, when in the early days when we were first
going to New York Comicgo, we would walk by that
specific block all the time.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Avengers Tower was supposed to be right by Grand Central Station.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I didn't either that it's in Hell's Kitchen, basically buy
the Javits.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
No, no, no, that's a ways away. That's on the
other side of Times Square.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, oh that's true.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Hell's Kitchen is on the other side of Times So,
because I remember when I had to walk to the
Javis Center, it was kind of it was it was
at minute.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
The Java is in Heal's kitchen.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, we should wrap this up. Okay, what are your
final thoughts on this? You know, on this it means
it means you God hate that line.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
No, well, you know what I will tell you. I live,
I live, We say it, we say this, and I
think we say it almost as a joke. I lived
for my expectations to be supported, like prove me wrong,
and they did. Yeah. Yeah, and how great that that's
the again. It just makes me excited that, like we
can still tell stories in this in this style. Yeah,
because it's I think it's easy to feel burned out
on it. So we need to celebrate the winds when
(39:34):
they come along. And I think part of the reason
that I really wanted to do this episode too is like,
it's also it's okay to be wrong. Sure, it's okay
to have doubts. It's okay to have doubt. Yeah, anything
else you want to say, any takeaways from mister Edmand.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I will say that because I talk about Andrew way
more than you talk about thunderbolts good, because I can't
rebellions are built on hope. The line that I did
not like in Rogue one, Yeah, that is a line
that Cassian says to her, which I cottoned on when
we watched it. I will say I read a I
read us there is a scene in and Or where
(40:09):
he somebody says that to him. Sure, and I actually
think it's a really great scene. But I can tell
you that scene is. But I think it's more interesting
to tell you the story about why Tony Gilroy put
it in. I read this interview that apparently his son
is twelve year old. Son was asking him about it
and was like, where are you gonna have him say
that line? And Tony Gilroy was like, why.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Would are you talking?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, he was like, what are you what are you
talking about? And he was like, but you had Cassie
and say it in the movie. And Tony Gilroy was like,
and if it wasn't for my twelve year old son,
I would have completely you know what, I believe you go.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Morton's twelve year old son is the reason why he
played er Gord. So shout out to twelve year old sons.
Everywhere there you go? All right, everybody, Ashley, where can
they find you?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Here?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Something really quickly on social media if they're interested, come
follows everyone, but like especially on TikTok at geek history,
lesson also wrong if you want yeah, but if you're
gonna be rude, you gotta follow us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
That's the rule. I'll say it again. And or is
not a Star Wars show. I don't care that it
says a Star Wars story. It's not a Star Wars
show and their X Wings in it. I don't care. Ashley,
where can they find you? On social media?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Can find me everywhere at Ashley v. Robinson. But coming
out on threads, I really like dreads right now.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
You can find me on threads at John on j
W I N and I just want to say that
all statements I said about anything involving bombs were for jokes.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jokes and comedies. Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Anyways, thank you so much for listening to egy Cash Listen.
This is been in a short, sweet episode and so
we shortly and sweetly thank you for listening to it.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I'm Jason Emmons, I'm actual Victoria Robinson and Professor Jason.
Would you please dismiss the class that is the end Worth.
I believe you
Thunderbolts and and Or are kind of the king and
queen of all things? Geeked him right now, which one's
the king and which one is the queen?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, I guess is the leader of the Thunderbolts, and
then and Or I guess and Or is the king.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
And you don't be so pedestrian. Thunderbolts is the king,
and Or is the queen. Well, Die is a beautiful queen.
So absolutely, yeah, they both look green into crown. Everything's fine.
He's a beautiful man, so let's go for it. Absolutely.
Jason and I have both had really unique experiences with
both of these properties, being I would say pleasantly surprised
(00:46):
with our reactions to both of them. And there's a
really really great Indie Wire article called Thunderbolts and Or
Redeem Struggling Franchises, And so I think we're gonna dig
down on that and we're gonna very happily eat some
crow because you know, even though this is the Internet,
we can admit when we're wrong, right Jason, Well, I
technically no, we've never been wrong. This is I want
(01:08):
to point out.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
By the way, it's funny that this Anywhere article says
that both of these things are struggling franchises when they're
made by this same company.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Hmmm, this is an interesting observation the products here, and
we'll drill down into some more interesting observations as we
say hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I'm Asha
Victoria Robinson and I'm Jason.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And then this is the podcast that we sometimes called
the Mine University, but it's mostly called geek hash Lesson,
where we drill down into one topic in a little
bit less than an hour, something fun from pop culture
and today. You know, a couple of weeks back, we
did an episode about the Thunderbolts, and like I said,
we have to eat some crow here. We were not
(01:48):
infused about that movie because I will say the marketing
campaign made the movie seem like it was gonna be
Suicide Squad three.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Reducks, and that was We wanted Thunderbolts. We didn't want suicide.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And we and we're very big fans of the comic
book Thunderbolts, and so we we basically did a whole
big episode. I don't remember the name of the episode,
go look in the feed, it's whatever.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And she was should Thunderbolts have been in MCU face once.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, we were trying to like, I uh, the answer
is no. But we were Look, that's how you advertise
podcast now people. You put a little title that's out
there that's a little bit salty, and everybody goes, what,
I gotta listen to this.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
We were wondering if this was even the right time
to be doing Thunderbolts, even though we had a pretty
strong idea that it seems early to way that's the
reveal at the end.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
We were correct on that that the reveal was going
to be the reveal. We're I mean, we could say
it New Avengers. The movie seek actually called New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
It's literal.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Disney put it on all the posters, so it's not
really don't even have to do a spoiler one three
days after premiere it. So don't be mad at us,
be bad at smashis stand in that TikTok question. It'll
be interesting is will they still call it Thunderbolts when
you're looking at it in Disney Plus or will it
be like Thunderbolts or it will be New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Or vice versa. Yes, they're gonna put both of them.
Because of se O. They created a bunch of problems. Yeah,
for the Blu Ray Disney plus people that for the
marketing team. Right, if you worked in marketing on Thunderbolts,
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But also it's your fault. I understand why they didn't
call it New Avengers.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
I do too. Uh, Thunderbolts is a cool name as well. Yeah,
I think it's a great name for a superhero team.
But what the movie does in a lot of ways
is it really subverts your expectations on the type of
storytelling and the types of origin stories that you get
for superheroes in general and the MCU specifically, because, as
(03:41):
I like to say, everything of feels like a Redux
of Iron Man one, and when something doesn't, it gets
really exciting. And I think that was what was so
exciting about Thunderbolts was we actually got to see a
lot of these characters struggle, and because they weren't introduced
in their individual movies, it was kind of interesting to
see them all be odd boys and girls together and
(04:01):
then be strengthened by having to work together. See.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But that's not the thing that I think makes the movie. Well,
I do think that you're you're right that like it
having a theme outside of superheroes, Yeah, was the strength.
But I actually think I'm trying to pull up a list.
I apologize, I'm a little split attention right now.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Why do you talking about list?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Joke?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I'm looking at I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Pull up the list of like everything Marvel Studios, including
the TV shows and the movies, because I kind of
wanted to look at everything since in Game, yeah, and
sort of judge it because we all agree that we
are sort of in a Marvel Studios downtour. We're even
a Disney downturn right now, and I kind of wanted
to look back at everything since in Game, which is
(04:44):
like kind of the one that I think everybody kind
of agrees with was the last universally agreed one, and
see if there had been one that it popped between them.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But you know, the one that comes to mind for
me is a Vision and Scarlett Witch, which which a
one division rather which also kind of deals with a
lot of the heaviness that Thunderbolts is putting to the forefront.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Yeah, but I don't think everybody agrees to that universally.
But I don't even know if anybody grees universe. But anyways,
the point I'm trying to make, yes, is that I
think the reason why Thunderbolts UH has been getting positive reviews,
and I think the reason why we enjoyed it is
because it's a movie.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, it's a standalone movie.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
It's not really that connected to many other things. Now
it is sort of a Black Widow sequel. We have
to acknowledge that task Master, Red Guardian and Widow part two.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Who whatever they're going to be calling her now, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Probably White Widow or from that movie.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
This includes all the TV shows. Okay, great, she does.
So you have a list.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So so since in game we have one division dead point,
what that's I'm sorry, this my list is weird. I
don't know what this list is that you've given me,
but it's way out of order.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, maybe it's the Colonel all twenty you can give. Actually,
I think it's the same. If I can find you another one.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I think you handed me when things the Marvel crun,
I know, which is insane. That's why it made I
was looking at it and I was.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Like, this makes use to say Deadpool was like, I
didn't think Deadpool was out.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
All Apparently Deadpool Willverrine happened in twenty twenty four, but
uh more, Endgame happened in twenty twenty three, even though
it came out in twenty twenty nineteen, because it's the blit.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yeah, you gave me the Krona loss. I'm sorry. I
felt so proud that I finally got a list. This
list is insane.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
This list is straight up insane, Like Secret Invasion apparently
doesn't happen till twenty twenty six, neither does Ages all along.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Oh boy, I forgot that Thunderbolts existed.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It says Thunderbolts happens in twenty twenty seven. That is
flip and stupid. I don't think that's true. Uh So, anyways,
I at least have it has a bunch of different
stuff in here, but I think the only one that
people might be shouting out that might have been in
Universally Love. And again I'm not saying Thunderbolts is University Love.
Settle Down Everybody. Yeah, is maybe Spider Man No Way Home,
even though I'm not a huge same Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, but it was the popular one for sure.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And I bet you a bunch of people at Deadpool
was shouting at dead Pool and Malverreen because it made
a million dollars. But again, that's one where I'll defend that.
I'll be like, box office does not determine critical mass
or you know, like the yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
There's I mean there's a lot of movies as well
that are very celebrated that were not box office success,
called classics, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I would also even argue that that's the worst of
the three Deadpool movies in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I sure have not seen all of them.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But I think it's because it wasn't connected to anything.
It wasn't really it was It told a complete story,
which really surprised me.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Which is also something that.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Marvel I feel has been really bad at lately, Like
I feel like every has to tie into everything and
it's crazy because I think I said these to you
when we walk out of the theaters.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
This is an Avengers movie very much so.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It is an It's literally an Avengers movie. Yeah, but
it doesn't feel like one. It doesn't, and I think
that's what makes it good. It does feel like.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
If you live on that one block by the train
station in New York, that your insurance has to be
way out of control. If you live in the MCU, though.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
You might want to make let the audience understand that
joke you just made.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So when you see them outside where they eventually give
the press conference at the end where they are sort
of goaded into announcing that they are a team and
they are the new Avengers. That's a very specific block
outside of a subway station in central and we have
seen it ad nauseum in the MCU. It must be
(08:51):
pretty accessible to shoot on or easy to shut down.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Well, here's the other kicker, and here's the thing of
why this movie also stands out to me.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Tell me, because they actually shot in you they did.
Some of the exteriors were in New York.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I mean they actually shot in New York. They actually
shot in Utah, and they actually shot in wherever the
opening sequence is with the only that happens.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah where she where she's.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I want to say, Indonesia somewhere. Yeah yeah, they actually
shot in those places. Yes, for the last now I've
bit of this have been pandemic, and I understand, But
for a while now, Marvel movies have been taking place
in nebulous volume town. Yeah yes, thor Love and Thunder
and Anthem and Man Quantumnia are all on a volumes.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Loki. Yeah, Loki's the volume iss looking show I've seen
maybe ever.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Lokis a lot on the volume, yeah too. And there
was just something to see a superhero movie. And now
look now look, Avengers number one didn't I don't think
shot a single day in New York. I don't know
if they do the movie shot yeah, yeah, yeah, but
there was something to me that made the movie feel
more tactile by seeing it on the streets.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
In New York. It's interesting because I'm going to use
a word that I don't actually think should be used
to describe the superhero movies, and you and I jibe
against it. Sometimes it felt dare I say, grounded in
its storytelling, and I think a huge part of that
is because they were boots on the ground at least
for some portion of it, in the location where all
of the drama was supposed to have been taking place.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, it's the thing because, like you know, you talked
tap on, this movie is a lot about mental space
and mental energy and how you feel.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I mean, it's Bob Voyd century has been all of
us at some point in our lives.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, and it's interesting because there's there's a thing that
I've always been told where they're like, even if you're
widing a thing that is about a group of people,
you still have to write the story anchored around one person. Yes, Yeah,
And I do feel like this movie is very based
around Eolena.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You can see a bit them.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Being like, we gotta have a lady lead this of
injury seat, and I'm not mad that it's Florence b Yeah.
And there is when you look at the first Avengers movie. Yeah,
that movie is anchored around Steve Rogers. Yes, like it
is about him and the modern world.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yes, and him becoming the leader of this team.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, And a lot of it is him being like,
do my methods still work?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah? And you know by the end of it he's like,
oh no, they still work.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
One of the funniest moments is I understood that reference. Yes,
like that gift is still being used to this day.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, and so like I think that like that we've
had like like I couldn't tell you who whose story
is the Eternals, I have no clue.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah, well that's just because I don't know the name
of most of the turtles.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I couldn't tell you whose story was the Marvels. Yeah,
couldn't tell you whose story Singer Invasion was.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Couldn't tell you whose.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Story of a Man even though it's titled a Man,
And I don't know, like and I felt like I
had a very like the movie is very is very simple.
It's very it's very much like Ylena doesn't think she
has a place in the world. She gets a team,
she has a place in the world. That's the story,
and she gets a fan. Right.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
We have the strong theme of found family across all
superhero media.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And it's very universal. It's very easy to understand, Well,
everyone's got a family. Yeah, And I think like Marvel
has been, Like, I don't know what the story of
Spider Man No Way Home is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
It's it's a clip show. Look, it's it's just like
da I hope, I truly hope if you love Spider
Man No Way Home that you love it so very much.
But it is not a movie. It is a clip show.
It is a PowerPoint presentation. To me, it's a.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Movie where, uh, you know, a multiversal villain that you've
never met before is going to kill your family member
and somehow that makes you really and somehow that is
your secret origins start.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
The whole point of that movie to me is redeeming
Andrew Garfield as Spider Man, honestly. But what I wanted
to say about Thunderbolts and to your point about like
focusing it around Yolena as like maybe not the POV character,
but certainly the lead of the film, is that it's
interesting because I think it's arguably a better introduction to
this version of Yolena, who is very different from the
common and like, yes, then the Black Widow movie and
(13:01):
if you want to know more about comic book Yolnina
and we do have an episode on her from when
that movie came out. I like this version of Yolena
way better than I liked her in Black Widow. And
it's not because like Florence p was amazing and she's
always been amazing. I don't think it's that her performance
has changed. I just think the writing is so much
better on her in this episode, in this uh installation.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, it's still a weird team. I mean, all right,
so let's you know, let's flip the stand or yes,
you know, because I think there would be no doubt
because I think a lot of people probably hop on
me and George Ray in the same way that I did.
How was that, Jason, Well, I don't. I think a
lot of as skipped season one.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Hu.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I think a lot of us were just like, I
don't really care about this side character that I know
dies in Rogue one. Yeah, yeah, I like Diego Luna. Sure,
but let's be fully honest here. Yeah, and Or is
not that interesting in Rogue one. He really isn't well.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And as we learn from a recent gacash Lesion extra,
I don't I don't like any Diegos.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, he's he's kind of he's kind of a guy
that just drives the show.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
He's kind of a jerk too in Rogue, which look,
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be, but he's
kind of a shirt Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Well, well, here's the full thing. And Or is kind
of a jerk. Okay, that is his character. But you know,
in two hours we don't really understand how why you know,
what's been done to earn that be here yet we
fell off. So everybody hold on to a second.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Technical different you can talk, you don't have to do
the jeopardy Well spoiler alert, one of us is an
indoor expert because one of us has seen it. But anyways,
I slep on season one. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Then I saw the advertisements for season two and I
was like, probably still not going to watch that.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah. And then the first couple episodes.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Came out and they got glowing reviews, and I kind
of did a little bit of research and I found
out that everybody had glowing reviews of season one as well. Yes,
and so I feel like a lot of the world
watched and or the way that I did, where they
are like they saw the season two ads and we're like, oh,
it's only two.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Seasons, Well, okay, I'll watch it.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, And then started watching it and basically we're like,
holy cow, this show is great.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
The show is really good. Because you said that you
think it's one of the top tier science fiction shows period.
Forget Star Wars. I think so. Yeah, I think so,
which from from you particularly is high praise. I think
it's in contention. Yeah, but it's funny.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I'm gonna tell you why I think Star Wars and Or.
I don't like calling it and Or, even though sometimes
I've seen it called and or a Star Wars story,
I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
I've seen it. I don't like a Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Other places that I've seen it called Star Wars and Or,
But I will say the title screen just says and.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
And Uh. I will tell you I love their title screens.
Oh do you?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh my god, They're my favorite. I'll give you a
little description. Everybody, but everybody, We're gon we're gonna talk
a little about the title screens of and Or. Uh. We're
gonna take a real quick bick. We're gonna flip into
Star Wars time. We're gonna talk.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
About it again.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
How these two broken franchise sort of weirdly have released
these two projects this year from the same company and
have gotten their groove back. Yeah, talk and Or talk
Ready for this gig, kisscher Lesson, We're back. We're talking
about how Disney's gotten their groove back because they lost their.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Own crow because they make Star Wars and Marvel. But
they seem to be on the.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Upswing and they well, they weirdly have released two projects
with two strong points of view.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We just did a bunch of thunderbolts.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Talk. Now we're gonna be talking about Anne and Oh.
I dropped this in thing. I knew I was gonna
love and Or when I watched episode one, when I
saw the title screen.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Oh yeah, yeah, well why hous okay convinced me.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I it's very simple, Yeah, but it's moody as f
So I'm a huge fan of nineteen seventies sci fi
movies True Omegamn, Soiling, Green Planet, The Age. Put them
in my THHX. I'll put even in George Lucas's THX one, one, three,
(16:48):
eight into There two thousand and one Space Odyesty, I
love Logan's run. That type of suit just moody, you know,
more vibes than feeling. I just like that we've lost that.
We do not make movies like that. Before the opening
title screen of and Or has music that is just
(17:11):
very tonal, It's like very impressionable. And then all it
is is a star field and the music just builds
and the music just gets.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Very like two thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Yeah, As the music builds the star you can see
that there is an object that is turning, and because
of it is turning, it is hitting like the starlight. Yeah,
and what it is is the title.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
It's the and Or. Oh that's interesting because that that
immediately evokes for me something that you like. And I
think is very boring, which is Star Trek. The Emotional
Picture also does a lot of a little bit later
than the seventies, but like also does a lot of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
It's considered to be the and OR main theme, but
all it is is like it's sort of like a
trumpet that just goes.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So it's like the Lost it just gets.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Loudy, and then the and Or like credits just turn
and then it's like fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Is it just that it's different, Like what about it
speaks to you? What I like about it is?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I think is it's because it's very similar, I think
to the opening crawl of the nineteen seventy seven Star Wars,
and it's just like, oh, this is different, Like we
just go bar and then like text and then and.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
If you think about it, in the original film, the
crawl was like revolutionary and it was so new and unseen,
which is why it's become iconic.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, and I think this is sort of evoking that,
but in a weird way because I'm moving it forward,
but it's showing you a starfield and then you just
hear this moody as f music and you're just like,
what am I I yeah, very quickly was like what
am I watching?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
And then you were just like, oh, I see something?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
What am I?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
What is that I can't see? And then the music
just keeps going and then it turns and you sees
its and Or and and I will tell you that
as as I get. And also here's the other thing. Yeah,
Tony Giroy, the show winner, and Or is such a genius.
He changes the music every episode so interesting. So it's
(19:08):
still that moody music, but sometimes it's a different instrument or.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Sometimes it's also versions of a theme.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, so like it's a nice it like to me,
it drops you into this. This is not gonna be
what you expect.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Shout out to Nicholas bright Hell and Brandon Roberts, who
are the two composers who've worked on the series.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Oh the music and Ors is fantastic. Yeah, but is
it writing music for you? Yes, but it's pretty intense.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yea.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And Or is intense. And this is why I think
and Or has sort of like revived Star Wars. So
and Or I've said this in a lot of ways
because I've heard people say and Ors is my favorite
Star Wars thing. Ever, I'm gonna say something to you
all that I have said.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
This Jason and is my favorite Star Wars thing. Ever,
it's bullshit. What this is the Internet, let's fight. And
Ors has little to anything to do with Star Wars
except the fact that it's produced by Disney and called
Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
That is the only Star Wars thing about it. The
thing that makes and Or work is that it is
a story, and they are characters that you could rip
out of Star Wars and put in any franchise, and
by the ability to do that, it's not Star Wars
at all.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Okay, So just to sort of bring it back, I
think it's very similar to I think Thunderbolts does that
as well, where like you could take those archetypes and
you could take those characters and they're basic because none
of them have superundurs substentiary and you could put them
in any other superhero universe and it was still work.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And Or is the same way. And Or, Wow, you.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Really nailed at professional television.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
And in the first season there is hardly any Star
Wars anything. There's no Jedies, there's no x Wing. Yeah,
there's you see, maybe I think three Stormtroopers in the
entirety of season one. Yeah, you see Imperial dudes here
and there.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, but there's a difference between the dudes and the
hats and the stormtroopers.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, and you'll see Chorissant, but Coraissant is not the
Chorisant you've seen in other Star Wars movies. You there's
no fanfare, there's there's no like heroes or villains. There's
no nobody ever mentions the Force. You know when the Force.
The Force is mentioned once in and Or. Oh really
it's the second to last line of the series.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Oh so they really earn it. Yeah, they really wait
for their moments like that.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's the second someone they made the Force with you. Yes,
it is this with you, it is and you'll like it.
It's your it's your good old friend Bail Organa. I
do love Bail, which he's the only person to mention
the Force and both seasons of Andor.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
That's you know what. Yeah, I like that. That's Clara. Yeah,
can you talk because one of the Star Wars things
that I do know is in and Or is actually
something you like?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
You really like the little droid guy. Oh yeah, the
doggy droid b B. So this is another thing. So Okay,
this is I know you're actually has not seen and
is probably not gonna watch and.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Or, but I'm fascinating, but your fascination.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
So here's the thing. Here's how I knew I could
be remembering this wrong. Sure, this is how I knew
I was in on Andy. Yeah, okay, so that title
screen happens, that's an and Or theme. They just kind
of speed it up. I did the five notes weirdly,
and it cuts this little crappy town kind of looks
(22:29):
like most Iley could be anywhere. You later learned a
place called Fedricks, which I don't think has ever been
in Star Wars ever before. It's Brandy Plant and you
see this little dumpster looking called b and he's d
D just driving through town. There's some like alien dogs
come by, and he stops because he's scared of him.
And then he keeps going and he drives suit the town,
(22:51):
and he drives into a junk yard. And when he
drives us into a junk yard into this ship casting
an and Or is sleeping in the ship and he
starts bumping Cassian and is like, Cassian, I got too
far you you know. That is the opening shot of
and Or. Yeah, and it's the thing I like about
it is that this is the first time that IOLA
(23:12):
felt like Star Wars has actually felt lived in. I
think Andor it does a very good job. And I
think a lot of previous Star Wars. I think the
Obion series did this. I think the Auhsoka series did this.
Star Wars just seems like fake space crap now and I.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Like very shiny, polished.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, it feels like it's made to sell toys. Yeah,
and Or feels like these are real places with real
people living on these plants.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Well to your point, how many and Or action figures
are there, Jason, I only know there's one. Yeah, I
found one one right, uh no, they made one for
this show.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
And he does have that little cue little droid. Okay,
but that droid Okay, so we don't talk about there's
you know the calf. The thing about Star Wars, there's
always a droid, right, Yeah. In the Obion series had
a little dingy droid. That because the little mousey droid. Yeah, yeah,
because they try to sell There's Chopper.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
There's R two D two Yeah, Chopper, Greatest Redemption arc.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
You a Star Wars, What can you do with the droid?
Not much, right, how can you beat R two D
two and see three boo you can't?
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well you make it BB eight and everyone goes, that's cuter.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It was a cute, good time. But BBA still didn't
live up to the thing. Absolutely b or b too
EO or whatever. They gave him a stutter, yeah, they
they made him a dog.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
A dog. He's basically the family dog.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, and that's like it's such a thing where you're
just like, wow, Star Wars been over around for like
fifty years now almost, Yeah, and how did nobody do this?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Like there is I'm gonna say, this was my whole chest.
It's been pitched before. How is this the series that
gets it across the finish line?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Spoilers There is a character in and Or Yeah that
dies in the first season.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Oh spoiler, yeah, I just they all die.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
B well, yeah, ten Or dies ten year old movie,
and b doesn't want to leave their home because of
this person dying. Yeah, and like and there and so
this other person is like there's this beautiful scene. This
other person is like, you've got to come with us, now,
you got to come with us, and like the be
(25:15):
the Begroid is basically just like I missed them and
missed them and and just like, no, stay here, and
and the guy is like, I'll stay here for one
night or and she the Joy goes, will you stay here?
And he goes, no, this is not my home. And
he and the little Joy goes, but my charging station
is here.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
And you're just like, oh my god.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You know. But but it's so shocking to me because again,
Star Wars is about when you look at what George
Lucas made. It's about a boy looking to the horizon.
He will because his dad owned an auto part store
in Modesto, California, and George didn't want to go look
at the articuts are a parts store. He wanted to
be a movie finker.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
So it's about the.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Dreams and horizon and magic. It's about Errol Flynn and Shy. Yeah,
that's Star Wars. It's Jedi's people. It is not the Rebellion.
It has never been the Rebellion.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
And I think the genius thing about this is that
Tony Gilroy, because I will tell you I rewatched Rogue
one after Angeler because I was curious. I'm not a
huge fan of Rogue one. Rogue one does become better
now that I have the and Or context. Sure, but
they didn't make that knowing all that stuff, so I
don't get. But anyways, and Or is still very Star
(26:30):
Wars for Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah, and Or is not Star Wars.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
And like the second season does get closer, but it
is this thing where like the genius thing is that
Tony Gilroy took this franchise and was like, no, no, no,
what would it be like if people actually had to
deal with Grand Moth Tarkan?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, what would that actually be like? It would be
hell and you would hate it. It's interesting because I
can see sort of like similar emotion themes carrying between
this and what it is is it's taking these fantastical
characters and it is drilling down on the harder parts
of the human experience through the lens of like, oh,
(27:12):
we're fighting super villains or oh we're taking on the
empire because fascism is fiction. I think it's.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Also making them very universal. Yeah, because I think a
lot of stuff in and Or is very universe.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Then all the dress you can get along with all
the trappings and the dressings of the genre, and and
it ultimately doesn't matter if you've seen Rogue, or if
you've seen Black Widow or Winter Soldier, like because you
can figure out everything else basically from context clues. Yeah.
I also think it's making things very relatable. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
And I think it's so interesting to me because I
would have told you, like again, I still think this
to the day, I would have been like, I think
Star Wars needs go away.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I do think that.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
I do too, But I think the same thing about Marvel.
I think they just need to have a little nap.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
But it also shows me that it's like, man, when
a creator has really good idea, will you look up
the director and writer of Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Yes, I also said this to you the other day.
It just because we talk a lot of on this
podcast about like do we want a series? Do we
want a movie about x y zed property? And it
just proves to you that the right creator, at the
right time, with the right idea and not too much oversight,
can get something like that across.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
It also tells me too, because again I, like I said,
I did not like and Or in Rogue. Yeah, and
I will say what Tony Gilroy has done with and
Or has made him into Like I'm like this is
this is one of the all time al great Star
Wars characters.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Now directed by Thunderbolts Asterix. The new event is Jake
Something Right, Jake Schreier, Jake Schreier, and it's screenplay by
Eric Pearson and Joanna Callo. Eric Pearson also wrote Black Widow.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Yeah, I do know that Jake Skryer is that you
said is a same Shreer s C h R e
I E R. The rumor's going around our is that
he's the front run for x Men now because based
on Thunderbolts.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yes, I saw that rumor, and I have to.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Say, I'm not super warm on Oh you're not on x.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Men in the MC. We all know it was warm
and him getting the job. So if you've listened to
I was gonna say, we all know, if you've listened
to this podcast for long enough, you know that I
just I like my x Men in a little pocket universe.
I'm down for him being the X Men guy. Yeah,
I'm down to see it.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I think it's so interesting to me because this is
the one Thunderbolts they said that. I read an interview
with Kevin Fige where he said that we are now
gonna prioritize quality over quantity.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Bolly, you wouldn't. Shouldn't have always been the motto Disney,
you would think, right, Yeah, yeah, I understand that that's
him doing damage control, and I really do. And he's
the face.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, it's also Disney being like, we've had a lot
of bombs and we're not going to give you as
much money.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Its explosive.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
But anyways, they claim that Thunderbolts is the first one.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Of this. I don't think they knew that. I don't
think they knew that either.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I don't think they knew that. I think they're claiming
it but as a red car, which is fine either way. Yeah,
I just want to say that. I'm like, it's interesting
because we have to They're both Disney products, both big franchise.
Marvel and Star Wars wore the biggest ones of the world.
They're mostly even Thunderbolt's getting, I mean, and Or is
getting by the way, you know, and Or. Weirdly, and
(30:20):
Or holds an IMDb.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Record highest rated Genre, highest rated star Wars the I
Am Apparently.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And Or is the only television show on IMDb that
has five nine point five episodes in a row. According
to IMDb, ratings.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
That makes me roll my eyes at the fans a lot,
because I'm sure I will never watch it. Yeah, yeah,
I'm sure the show is great. But I'm like, I
don't think Andrew's the best television show of all time.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, no, no, but I do think it has more
than more than one nine point five.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Oh I'm not I'm not nay saying that, but that's
a bunch of Star Wars hands clamoring to IMDb. But
that is interesting, that's very interesting. Like, no, you are right,
I do think Andor.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I would put Andor in the in the lexicon of
one of the best sci fi shows of all time. Yeah, easily.
Now it also gets that because it only has two seasons,
you know. But anyways, it's strong. Yeah, but I think
the interesting thing about this is that, my god, like
just let artists Dave.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Bart do a take. Yeah, like a strong point of view,
because that is something Andor. You know, there's that Star
Wars anology that's like, from a certain point of view,
that is certainly what Andor seems to be.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Well, it's one of these things where I saw a
lot of people talking about this on Reddit, where some
people were like, I don't know if I want like
Space Wizard Star Wars anymore. Yeah, Like, and I kind
of agree because I'm kind of like, man, I don't know,
like what do all these I just watched like this
cast of like twenty five people because Andor was a
big cast yea of like twenty five different rebels all
(31:52):
just go through hell to like get these desk star
plans and then Luke Skawar comes in and gets all
the credit. You know, space is you know, and then
I don't know Thunderbolts. You and I talked about this.
I walked out of Thunderbolts being like, is Marvel back? No?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
We literally were like did you did you like it?
Really nice touch? Yeah? So I don't guess there were
I will say there were parts of Thunderbolts I liked
less than other parts.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Of Thunderbolts, and there was not a perfect There.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Were parts of Thunderbolts where I was like, oh, I
see this is the yuck getty yuck part of the MC.
But overall I was just so impressed that I was
engaged by it the whole time.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
I would give it a B plus if you were
to ask me a solid B plus, I would agree, Yeah,
I'd watched it.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
If it came on TV, I watched it again. I
would happily watch it. Yeah, there's lots of some more movies.
I know.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yes, that was exactly what you said. It kept my attention. Yeah,
it just it was a movie.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
And I do want to acknowledge that for both of
these are they better in comparison because both of them
have had questionable runs for the last couple of years. Yes,
but I don't think that that does take away from
their best qualities.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
I agree, although I will make the exception that I
think that helps Thunderbolts. I think that doesn't help and Or.
I think I do think it will explain that well no, no, no,
and Or would have been I think and Or would
have been lauded no matter where it came out.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I see, I see, I see Thunderbolts.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
I think maybe a few years earlier, maybe not as
big a pump a bump.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I'll agree with you, because Thunderbolts had come out immediately
after A Winter Soldier, I think we would have been
like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, even though I do
think it should have come out earlier, or even the
first movie after in Games, Yes, right, I don't know
if we be we did need another Avengers movie after.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I think surely as positive because we're also like we
have in our heads these all these Disney Plus series
that were kind of like that you.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And I are certainly not everyone is mixed on, but
you and I are sorry.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
Certainly missed well and then go back to and or
of it all. Like I watched the Obi Wan Kenobe
series and I was like, I'm never watching Star Wars again.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, and I know for you that was a particularly
difficult blow.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, I was like I'm out. Yeah, I'm I'm out
on all these shows. Yeah, They're just not for me anymore. Yeah,
which is very interesting. So yeah, I don't know, Ashley,
what would be your final thoughts on all of this
or you know, like it is interesting, they're both Disney.
It's just so interesting big franchises.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
This has happened in the same year too, and likes
of each other end it last week. Yeah, yeah, you know,
not to be too tried about it, but like it
does give me hope.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
It's also because it's almost about two things that like, yeah,
we were not positive on Thunderbolts. I was in I
was like, who wants the hand or show no truly
and both of these things are just like pretty good.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, watch again. It gives me hope because I think
there is I think there's a lot of things happening
in genre right now where there's genre fatigue. There's event fatigue,
there's comic book movie fatigue, there's a lot fatigue. Yeah, yeah,
there's a lot against these types of projects right now,
(34:57):
which is why I think you're seeing the rise of
more grounded things like the Taylor Sheridan Show. I mean,
even something like Watson is still a character with a superpower.
He's super smart. Yeah, you know. But but it gives
me hope that even if we see a reduction in
the amount or the styles, that there is still room
(35:18):
for these types of stories and for them to be
successful and to say something really, really meaningful. And that
delights me, and that it gives me hope for you know,
we got a big summer ahead of us, we got
a Superman and we got a Fantastic Four coming, we
got a Mission Possible, Like it gives me, It gives
me hope for all of these things that are coming
(35:40):
out that like, no matter what, no matter how many
times we've revisited these stropes, there's still something new to say, Like,
I think there's nothing but positivity to take away from
the fact that both of these are critical successes.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
But I'm also going to say something else. I think
the big reason why to me, for me personally, yeah,
these are both successful is because they are telling different stories.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And I think a big thing that I am not
excited about, especially with franchises, all the major franchises right now,
is just telling us the same story five times. I agree,
And Marvel's guilty of that. Star Wars is guilty of that,
and I think David Thrones is guilty of that. DC
is guilty of that. They're all guilty of And it's like,
and both of these to me are different stories. Or
(36:29):
there's stories that are just like packaged in a way
that I haven't seen before.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
They're stretching what your expectations are.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Yeah, and it makes them challenging, Yeah, and interesting. Yeah,
they are challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Not challenging like you're going to have a rape. I
mean maybe you will, and maybe that's okay too, but
like they are, it's more challenging to watch something like
this than to watch the same thing that you've seen
eighty five times.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Wandor is very challenging for a certain group of people
on the internet because I don't think they realize who
the empire is right now.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah, well that's a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
I never thought they would make a Star Wars show
where they're going to be like, no, no, no, by the
end of this episode, we're going to convince you why
you probably may want to go bomb a building.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
And they've done it. And I did it, Guard, I
was gonna say, and then Daddy Scars Guard came down
from as Garden and said, I will do this for you.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So yeah, I guess you know, I don't know interesting.
We wanted to We just wanted to mention and we
wanted to ecro yeah, saying what I'm gonna say, go
watch and Or and then also be like we were
right and wrong and wow, Like I just have artists
to make art.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I just want people to know, like it's okay to
be wrong, and it's okay to be surprised by stuff.
It's even when you don't like saw writers to make art.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Yeah. Yeah, because I was telling you I was getting
pretty burned out here pretty quick on some of my stuff.
And yeah, these two things excited me again, me too,
really excited me.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I hope we have a version of this conversation again
in the summer.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Do you think we're going to get a MAMC movie
where somebody teaches you how to put a bomb on
a building? It'd be like, you're gonna put a bomb
in a building, You're gonna be excited about it.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I'm gonna argue that we've probably already seen that somewhere. Yeah, yeah,
definitely in some stuff I probably haven't watch.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I don't know about that. I don't think we've seen that.
I think the superheroes are pretty safe anyways.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah. Anyways, Also, I hope so if you were if
you were wondering the location for the beginning of Thunderbuss
was Quala Lumpur Oh okay, cool, So Malaysia, So you
were close with the Indian.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Clos you were definitely in the right area of the
planet that was in the right ocean vector.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, for sure. Continent so and then.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Grand Central Station. I know that, yeah, because we said that.
Sorry DC. When I when I were I have to
go to New York, dec Comics would always put me
in the hotel right across from Grand Central Station.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So I was very familiar.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, when in the early days when we were first
going to New York Comicgo, we would walk by that
specific block all the time.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Avengers Tower was supposed to be right by Grand Central Station.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
I didn't either that it's in Hell's Kitchen, basically buy
the Javits.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
No, no, no, that's a ways away. That's on the
other side of Times Square.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, oh that's true.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Hell's Kitchen is on the other side of Times So,
because I remember when I had to walk to the
Javis Center, it was kind of it was it was
at minute.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
The Java is in Heal's kitchen.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Yeah, we should wrap this up. Okay, what are your
final thoughts on this? You know, on this it means
it means you God hate that line.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
No, well, you know what I will tell you. I live,
I live, We say it, we say this, and I
think we say it almost as a joke. I lived
for my expectations to be supported, like prove me wrong,
and they did. Yeah. Yeah, and how great that that's
the again. It just makes me excited that, like we
can still tell stories in this in this style. Yeah,
because it's I think it's easy to feel burned out
on it. So we need to celebrate the winds when
(39:34):
they come along. And I think part of the reason
that I really wanted to do this episode too is like,
it's also it's okay to be wrong. Sure, it's okay
to have doubts. It's okay to have doubt. Yeah, anything
else you want to say, any takeaways from mister Edmand.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
I will say that because I talk about Andrew way
more than you talk about thunderbolts good, because I can't
rebellions are built on hope. The line that I did
not like in Rogue one, Yeah, that is a line
that Cassian says to her, which I cottoned on when
we watched it. I will say I read a I
read us there is a scene in and Or where
(40:09):
he somebody says that to him. Sure, and I actually
think it's a really great scene. But I can tell
you that scene is. But I think it's more interesting
to tell you the story about why Tony Gilroy put
it in. I read this interview that apparently his son
is twelve year old. Son was asking him about it
and was like, where are you gonna have him say
that line? And Tony Gilroy was like, why.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Would are you talking?
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Yeah, he was like, what are you what are you
talking about? And he was like, but you had Cassie
and say it in the movie. And Tony Gilroy was like,
and if it wasn't for my twelve year old son,
I would have completely you know what, I believe you go.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Morton's twelve year old son is the reason why he
played er Gord. So shout out to twelve year old sons.
Everywhere there you go? All right, everybody, Ashley, where can
they find you?
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Here?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Something really quickly on social media if they're interested, come
follows everyone, but like especially on TikTok at geek history,
lesson also wrong if you want yeah, but if you're
gonna be rude, you gotta follow us.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
That's the rule. I'll say it again. And or is
not a Star Wars show. I don't care that it
says a Star Wars story. It's not a Star Wars
show and their X Wings in it. I don't care. Ashley,
where can they find you? On social media?
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Can find me everywhere at Ashley v. Robinson. But coming
out on threads, I really like dreads right now.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
You can find me on threads at John on j
W I N and I just want to say that
all statements I said about anything involving bombs were for jokes.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, jokes and comedies. Yes.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Anyways, thank you so much for listening to egy Cash Listen.
This is been in a short, sweet episode and so
we shortly and sweetly thank you for listening to it.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
I'm Jason Emmons, I'm actual Victoria Robinson and Professor Jason.
Would you please dismiss the class that is the end Worth.
I believe you
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