Wakanda MEGA EPISODE (Black Panther, Shuri, Dora Milaje, Ironheart)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, and welcome to Geek History Last And I'm Jason Enman.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson. Welcome to your mind University because
you have stumbled onto the podcast where we take one character,
one construct or one Black Panther from popular culture and
teach you everything you need to know about them in
about an hour. Except today because it's a mega episode day,
which means you get many.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hours ones iron Woman, that's true, not Black Panther.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
And several door militsies.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
That's right. This week we're gonna suit up. We're gonna
grab our vibranium gloves, our vibranium boots, and our vibranium
heads up display. Because yeah, it is a mega episode
celebrating all people, iron all.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Things iron Heart, everyone who touched Williams's wakandish or.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Flavor. Definitely, yeah, because you know we got to talk
about you know, who's gonna wear the black ears, who's
gonna wear the new Iron Man armor? How many more
puns can we you know? Anyways, iron Heart is gonna
hit Disney Plus.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
On Disney Plus.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Ironheart is on Disney Plus. If you're with it with
the kid like the kids are unlike me and to
celebrate that. Again, we have celebrated. We have assembled some
of are pun fully attended some of our favorite Wakanda
like episodes to honor re Read, to honor Ironheart, and
to honor all the Wakandan themed people. So who is
going to be what is the lineup of this episode?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
All right? We're making a strong opening with black panther.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Okay, I know that guy.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
This is our episode on t Challa specifically, we know
there have been several many black Panthers. It's the history
of the mantle, it's the history of the character, and
it is his legacy leading up the first movie. Then
we're following up with another black panther. This one is Shuy,
the younger sister the Techno file and the person who
has a direct relationship with three reveals. Yeah, yeah, in

(01:48):
the MCU continuity.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yes, all right sold.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Next following up that, we're going with the Dora Malage,
which are the elite fighting squad. They're the coolest woman
in a Wakanda who also per the MCU have an
effect on Trading Willing.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yes, we're going to see some of them in Ironheart.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I bet we definitely are even production history. And then
we are wrapping up, of course, with the Ironheart herself.
Are Rere Williams episode following in the fine legacy established
by Tony Stark and our very very favorite John Rudy
Rhodes and all of the other people have been in
the armor before her. Because she is now leading a

(02:22):
show on disable US yep.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
As affected by all these other characters, like they're giving
them out to everybody.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Now, yeah, I mean, I guess if you can get
one billed, that's right.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
All right, Just sit back, relax, prepared to assemble for
the star studded journey through Ironheart and Slash Willcondon history.
And remember, if you don't stick around to the end,
you're gonna miss the post credit scene. We're Ashley are
going to argue who is the best Black Panther. It's
a pretty obvious choice. Spoiler it's not surey anyway, So
without further ado, take it away, Past Ashley and past Jason.

(02:57):
Since time memorial, a lineage of fierce warrior kings have
protected the African country of Wakonda. Theirs was the title
of Black Panther, a mentle of spiritual and political leadership
handed down for generations. And it's time for their GHL
to now be in session. Hello and welcome to Geek

(03:32):
History Lesson. I'm Jason kitty kat In then I'm actually
Victoria Robinson. Welcome to your Mind University because you have
stumbled onto the podcast where I giggle and we teach
you all about one character construct or feline creature for
popular culture and tell you everything you need to know
about them in about an hour. And this week there's

(03:53):
a tiny little independent movie that we really want to
promote about Kitty Cat, about a kidy cat called Black Panther,
And so Jason just not that he'd do a deep
dive and we would talk about that. That's right. This
has been a lesson that a lot of people have requested.
This has been a lesson that a lot of people
have been wanting. And this is a lesson that I
have been super looking forward to doing. But to do

(04:14):
excuse me to doing, I don't know how. Uh, I'm
already failing. He's a professor. But the movie is out
and this is the perfect time to talk about it now.
A bunch of people are gonna be our technical assistance
for this podcast. The people that have suggested Black Panther
are fans just like you are, Lee Chavos, Sam Martinez,
Philip pgt At, Sharbros, The Phantasm on YouTube, Kimmy Tolliver

(04:40):
and don Zach Denton, thank you so much for suggesting
Black Panther. I'm so glad that we are finally delivering
Black Panther to you. And you're gonna want to stick
around to the end of the podcast because we have
brought on a very special guest to this podcast. What yes, now,
Ash and I have not seen the movie Black Panther

(05:01):
at the time of this recording, but our special guest,
Jay Washington has, so we're gonna pick his brain in
a non spoiler way. Don't worry, there won't be any
spoilers at all. All right, let's move into the first
section of our podcast, the ten cent Origin.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
And the Tencent Origin is where presser Jason is going
to go over all the basic constructs, creators and first appearances.
In case you go to a six six six Wakanda
themed cocktail party, pas invite us. That'd be an awesome party.
Invite us and they ask you who this Black Panther
person is?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
All right, Black Panther, of course, is a Marvel Comics character.
His first appearance was in Fantastic four number fifty two Ooh,
Little DC out there in July of nineteen sixty six.
He was created by stan Lee and Jack Kirby. His
real name is touch all Up and his team affiliations

(05:51):
are the Fantastic Four, the Avengers, the Defenders, the Fantastic Force,
the Illuminati, and the Ultimates. His partnership slow marriage have
been with Storm, we'll talk about that later. And his abilities,
of course, are a genius level intellect. He's a skilled
hunter and tracker. He's an expert martial artist and hand
to hand combatant. He utilizes high tech equipment and weapons,

(06:14):
including a vibranium uniform. And because he is the Black
Panther of his country, he has enhanced senses, strength, speed, agility, stamina, durability, healing,
and reflexes. And he also has all chemical precognition and
protection baby because he can stop mystical attacks. Damn To'challa's powerful.

(06:35):
T'Challa is that is one of the things that a
lot of people in something you're gonna learn about this lesson,
T'Challa is one of the most underestimated people in the
Marvel universe. When he's actually one of the most powerful.
All right, let's go to the meat cute Ashley, Yeah,
met cute.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Well, the meat cute is a term that we stole
from romantic comedy writing, where we tell you the first
time we met this character and how cute it was. Jason,
I'm really interested in where you first met Black Panther.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Okay, in the nineties, the Fantastic Four, The Avengers, iron
Man and I forgot iron Man, The Avengers, Fantastic Four,
I can't and Captain America. I can't remember the fourth one.
We're not high selling titles.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
But Jason, but Jason in this post at cu World,
I can't wrap my head around that.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
In nineteen ninety four and nineteen ninety five, those titles
were actually selling really badly because the X Men were
king at Marvel. Yes now, Marvel sold said titles to
Jim Lee, who was running in homage comics at the time,
and Rob Lifield to take over the titles, and they

(07:42):
did a run of twelve issues called Heroes Reborn, which
we know of. You're a fan of the podcast, jameson Love.
I love because it was my introduction into the Fantastic
Four and these characters, because before then I always thought
they were super lame, and it rebooted all these titles
and actually made a lot of people think it did
it worked. Yeah, these titles became big sellers after this run. Now,

(08:05):
in the Fantastic four run, drawn and written by Jim Lee,
in issue four of the Fantastic Four, they go to
a country called wakanda Hey, and they meet a really
cool version of t'chala, and Tatala goes with him for
like a good chunk of the rest of the series
and he helps them fight uh doctor Doom. And the

(08:26):
way Jim draws his costume is really cool because he
does give him sort of the old Jack Kirby costume
with the striped gloves and swer and sort of the
weird pouch and his cape which I love. Black Panther
with his weird like cape. Yes, he's a pro I'm
a pro cape person. So heroes were born. Fantastic four
by Jim Lee is where I first met to Chala Ashley, Yes,

(08:47):
where did you meet him?

Speaker 2 (08:48):
So the first time I ever remember hearing about him
was during the marriage to Storm. Because I'm going to
admit that the Fantastic Four pocket of the Marvel Universe
escaped a lot of my reading until I became an adult,
I was very much an ex person and that was
a lot of my focus growing up. I know, shock

(09:09):
reading Marvel Faint, don't clutch your pearls too hard, dear.
But the first time I ever actually read a Black
Panther series was when The Tan of Hesy Coats stuff
launched because I was recently, very recently, because I was
a fan of his from his writing on the Atlantic
and Between the World and Me and I. It's an
essay about being an African American person in America, and

(09:30):
then I felt like it was an important thing to read.
And it's really really good and it's very short. If
you're maybe a socially minded person, you should pick it up.
Or if you like his Black Panther, you're you're you're
new to I am new to Challa. That's I'm sorry,
that's very hard to say. Also, Chadwick Boseman just makes
him so compelling. Like agreed, his his debut in Civil
War is I think one of the best introductions of

(09:51):
the MCU.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Characters of any MCU career. I agree, I really agree.
All right, let's move into the history one on one.
The main meat of the lesson where Professor j is
going to throw down everything we need to know about
Black Panther. Okay, so you're in okay, because this is
going to be a longer than normal episode because there
is a lot of Black Panther history, and to be

(10:13):
honest with you, there was a lot of parts where
I didn't want to cut stuff because I felt it
was very important and I knew people have been waiting
for this episode for a long time. So this is
going to be a longer than normal episode. Let's talk
about some publication history first. Cool, cool, Now, Black Panther
actually predates the official founding of the Black Panther Party,

(10:35):
which happened in October of nineteen sixty six. That's fascinating, yes,
though not the Black Panther logo of the Black Panther
Party's predecessor, which is actually called the I don't know
how I say this, the Lowndes County Freedom Organization. Nor
does Black Panther T'Challa beat the World War two Black

(10:56):
Panthers tank battalion. So there, the idea of a black
Panther is sort of out there.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
And black Panther being an image for African or African
American people.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
But there is one thing that t'ch'all is the first
ad He is the first black superhero in American mainstream
comic books, and virtually no other black heroes were created
before him. There are some other ones, but he's generally
considered the first. Now. Eventually, in the seventies, in Fantastic

(11:26):
four one one nine, the Black Panther was briefly renamed
to the Black Leopard to okay, well, to avoid comparisons
to the Black Panther Party, who were seen in Upswing
at the time. Yeah yeah now. Co creator Stan Lee
recounted that the name was inspired by a pulp adventure
hero who had a black panther as a helper, and

(11:49):
claims that the Black Panther name had no connection to
any of these parties.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It just sounds like he really liked the Jungle Book
and was like, cool, so I'm gonna have bighera too.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Now.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
Jack Kirby's original concept art for the Black Panther actually
called the character Cole Tiger ooh not. I think Black
Panthers a better name, and he has a very weird
striped yellow costume. Go google it. It's it is worth
the Google right now google Jack Kirby's original Black Panther costume.
It is quite ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I'm going to do it, and then I'm going to
be sure to share this on our social media sure
when goes out.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, because it's like it's like yellow with a white
cape and stuff like that. And please show your reaction
when you when you find it on your magic Google phone. Ashley, Well,
all right, let's move into the fictional character history of
Black Panther. And first before I can get to T'Challa,
because he's the black panther that we are going to
talk about. Even though there are other black panthers, just
like green lanterns, there's lots of them. Ashley is grimacing

(12:43):
and I don't know whether it's very hard to find. No,
I found it. Show it to me real quick. It's
not great, that is it? Ashley's looking at he has
he has white stripes and black pants and and a
red cape.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
And yeah, it's interesting because to me it is very
proto Fourth World. Sure and New Gods. I'm so glad
that they read designed him and we have the sleeker mostly.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
So much better it is. It is all right now,
before I get this to Challa, I need to explain
to you what black panthers are cool. Now, the black
Panther is a ceremonial title given to the chief of
the Panther tribe of the Advanced African nation of Wakanda. Now,
in addition to ruling the country, the black panther is

(13:23):
also the chief of various tribes that also live in Wakanda.
There's more than just the panther tribe, Okay. Now, the
panther habit is a symbol of office the head of
state and it is often used during diplomatic missions. The
panther is an hereditary title, but one must earn it

(13:43):
and one can be challenged once a year to lose it.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I love that. That's how I think all monarchy should
be run.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
You will see, like there is a character in We're
not gonna talk about him, but there is a black
panther character called man Ape. There is the Ape tribe
in Wakan and man Ap challenges to Chala at certain
points to be the king of Kanda. And I believe
the character of man Ape is not is in the movie,
but they don't call him man Ape, thank god. Yeah. Now,

(14:14):
in the distant past of Akanda. A meteorite made of
the vibration absorbing mineral vibranium crashed in Wakanda and was unearthed,
and reasoning that outsiders would exploit Wakanda for this valuable resource,
the ruler King T'Chaka, like his father and other panthers
before him, concealed his country from the outside world. Now,

(14:37):
vibranium is a term that is used all over the
Marven universe and their movies. Ashley, do you know what
vibranium is? I do.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Vibranium is the metal that most famously made Captain America's shield.
I feel like it came out of the same zeitgeis
that Adamantium came out of and nobody talked to each
other about it, and it is I don't know the
metric on it, but it's like stronger than steel.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I don't have any of that information.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
I don't know either, but I know they've said it
in a number of different moves. It's the strongest metal.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's argo about that because we have seen Wolverine's adamantium
clause class right with the vibranium shield, and neither one
of them were able to cut each other it's basically
known in its name look vibranium. It absorbs kinetic vibrational energy. Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Also props the King ta Chaka for knowing that people
would come and steal his valuable resource, because that's what happens.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
It has energy manipulating qualities as well, and it had
long been thought to be alien in origin and wasn't
confirmed until Captain Marvel proved that theory to be true
in a combok storyline later.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
I think that the manipulation part of vibranium is really
fascinating and not played up against.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
And they teased us.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
With it in Civil war and then we never saw
any warbit I hope we had morbid black.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Some other well known uses of vibranium are, of course,
as you said, Captain America's shield is made of a
vibranium iron alloy. It's not one hundred perc vibranium that
was created by doctor Myron McClain. That vibranium was gifted
to him by a jury who is actually to Choka's
father during World War two. So he's to chas grandfather,

(16:12):
yes he yes, he's to child's grandfather. Fun fact, Steve
Rodgers is one of the few outsiders to be granted
entry into Wakanda. That's cool. I like that, and as well.
We'll learn later. I'm gonna I'm gonna tease it right now.
Captain America basically went to Wakanda and said, hey, we
need your help with the war. I hear you have
this medal, and his conversations with a jury convinced a

(16:37):
Shuri to give him a small piece of vibranium and
promise that Steve Rodgers would keep his country secret. And
Steve Rogers did. Steve Rogers never revealed where he got
that medal. Good stee'z a good man.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Some other vibranium is hawkeyees trick arrows. They use Wakandan
and Antarctic varieties. There is, of course, the panther habit
is a microwave mesh Wakandan vibranium, and his claws and
his gloves are also vibranium. A misty Knight's bionic arm
is also made a vibranium, but it's made of the
Antarctic variety of vibraanium, not the Wakandan variety. Now let's

(17:10):
go back to T'Challa. Okay, T'Challa is actually the first
biological son of T'Chaka, king of the African nation of Wakanda.
His mother, Nami, died while giving birth, and his older
adopted brother Hunter blamed him for her death. Now, this
has sort of been retcon into Black Panther's history, but
Nami was actually trying to build Wakanda's space program. Oh

(17:33):
I love that, which is really cool. Now that has
only appeared in Black Panther stories very recently. Okay. Now,
T'Challa's second mother is named Ramonda, and she left the
family when T'Challa was only eight, and Tachaka believed that
Ramonda had run away with another man, and so discreete
decreed that no one would speak of her in his
presence again. Only decades later did T'Challa learn Ramonda had

(17:56):
been kidnapped and brought back to her native South Africa.
To Chaka was eventually murdered by the adventurer Ulysses Claw
in an attempt to seize the vibranium mound of Wakanda.
With his people still in danger, a young T'Challa use
Claw's sound weapon on Claw and his men, shattering Claw's
right hand and forcing him to flee. This incident also

(18:19):
exposed Wakanda to the outside world for the very first time. Now.
Some of this can be seen in the newly released
series called Rise of the Black Panther, which is basically
Black Panther Year one, Yeah, which only has one issue
out so far.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
But it's got a great cover.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
No. Actually, hidden cities are kind of a common thing
in comic books. We have Guerrilla City, Atlantis, you know, Wakanda.
I would say they were a classic sci fi sure, yeah,
do you like this recurring theme in comic books and
sci fi? There are all these hidden city that are
so amazing we've never heard about them before.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
I think when this trope first came into being, probably
around the Victorian era, where we were opening up the
world and exploring places for the first time, I think
it was probably more exciting than the world is very
open now, even if we've never been to all of
these places. So I think now it's tough. It's tough

(19:13):
to get into, and it's tough to imagine, especially in
the Marvel in the DC universes, that there's five or
six secret cities or sometimes secret schools, or Wakanda is
a secret country. It is a lot of geography, like
if it show up on Google Maps. But I will
say that it's maybe not my favorite trope, but I
think for Wakanda, I think Wakanda and Atlantis are two

(19:33):
of the examples where it works the best.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Now, T'Challa was next in line to be the king
of Wakanda and Black Panther. But until he was ready
to become the leader of the nation because he's pretty young,
his uncle Seon, t'chaka's younger brother, successfully passed the trials
and became the Black Panther. Now T'Challa, as a teen,
was set out of Wakanda and a rite of passage

(19:56):
in which he was supposed to roam the land, and
he was soon re by a young orphan girl named
Ororo Monroe, who used her mutant powers to control the
weather to take out his would be kidnappers. Now, this
pair shared a romance and spent a lot of time together. However,
T'Challa's duties as a prince prevented them from further exploring

(20:16):
their mutual attraction. Now, just in case someone doesn't know,
Ashley who is a Monroel.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
She is Storm of the X Men fame.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Now do you like that these two characters have a romance,
even though it is a little problematic that they're, you know,
a couple of the only truly African mark because Auroro
is from Egypt.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yes, and she is also a queen. She's also a royalty.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
You know, well sort of. She's not official royal, no,
but she's like a royalty of the people she is. Yeah,
people call her goddess.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, they call her goddess the color queen. You know.
I think it's tough because their romance came from a
time when Marvel was not very diverse. And look, it's
not like to actual African people would never have a Roman.
I don't mean to imply that, but I do think
it's a little problematic in like, oh, let's take our
our only two meaningful African characters and make them hook up.

(21:09):
I also, and I've said this on a number of
podcasts before, I don't like it when the X Men
interact outside of their world. So I don't hate it,
but it's not my favorite couple ever.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Now. During this time, the Challa also traveled to America
and Europe for school, and Btumba, his childhood friend, was
sent by Batumba's father in the Basa to study alongside T'Challa,
and while in the United States, T'Challa used the alias
Luke Charles to remain incognito. T'Challa gained a PhD eventually

(21:41):
in physics from Oxford University. There's it's also been retcon
that he has a degree from MIT as well, So
the do best schools in the world now eventually being
bested in every sport in every endeaver, but Tumba grew
jealous of T'Challa and eventually termed two AIM, plotting revenge
onto Chaka's son. Now Aim, of course, is a you know,

(22:04):
evil organization. In the Marvel universe, Prince T'Challa would later
become king after defeating his uncle, King Seon in the
once a year ritual that I talked about before that
allows anyone of a Condon royalty to become king or
queen by defeating the current ruler in hand to hand combat. Now,
given the fact that the ruling black panther possesses enhanced

(22:25):
superhuman abilities because they digest the Wakandan heart shaped herb,
the chance of a non black panther defeating a black
panther is very, very slim in order to do and
T'chala did it after he successfully defeated his uncle. That's
when he was sent to get the sacred heart shaped herb,

(22:47):
and while he was looking for it, he was captured
by Aim and guess who was there, but Tom.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know, they're really lucky that nobody's just wandering up
there and eating these heart shaped herbs, willing Billy and
getting superpowers.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
The Wakans are a very well, there's part of a
process of it. They're not just out there for anybody. Yeah,
actually now, but Tamba was ordered to execute his friend,
but he couldn't do it, and he freed to Challa
and joined T'Challa in battling the Am soldiers. And during
the combat, but Tamba was fatally wounded and after Am left,

(23:19):
he apologized to but his new king, his new Black Panther,
before dying. So t'chala he went to take the heart
shaped herb, which of course links him to bast the
Panther god.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Now this herb enhances him as almost a superhuman, and
T'Challa becomes the new Black Panther, the leader of the
Panther clan and the king of Wakanda, and one of
his first acts as king, T'Challa excommunicated his adopted brother
Hunter Oh. Now, Hunter, who had now been known as
the White Wolf, he had assumed leadership of the Hatat

(24:03):
the Dogs of War. They are basically the Wakandan's secret police,
but Hunter had sort of turned them into zealous patriots
who basically performed access, edition, assassination, counterintelligence. Have we not
learned that secret police never work out? They always turn evil? Now?
T'chala was a king who would not tolerate such actions

(24:24):
good and he officially demanded disbanded excuse me these, although
in reality Hunter just took that group and kind of
made the mercenes and operated them outside of a conduct.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
God damn it. Hunter.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
So yeah, uh, this will not be the last time
we see of Hunter oh Hunter yep. Now, to test
his powers, his fighting skill, and basically just to be
like I'm the king, King, T'Challa invited the American superhero
team the Fantastic Four to wakonduct. He just wanted to

(24:59):
hit breed in the now, Ashley, who are the Fantastic Four?

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Ah?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
The Fantastic for are read Richard Sustorm, Johnny Storm, and
Ben Grimm. They are a bunch of people who happened
to be friends with Reed. He shot them into space
and got them all horribly mutilated, but cool superpowers their
cosmic adventurers. There you go. Jason says it nicer than
you too.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Now, the FF were amazed at Wakanda's man made techno jungle,
and they comment on how real and amazing Wakanda seemed,
although read Richards was able to figure out how all
the technology worked for us. The Black Panther then attacked, neutralized,
and defeated the Fantastic Four individually by using a combination
of technology built into his panther costume and his superhuman abilities,

(25:42):
which he explained came from eating the rare herb. Now,
when the Black Panther was attacking the Fantastic Four, the
Fantastic Four had gotten the invite to Wakanda from the King. Yeah,
they didn't know what the Black Panther was. Sure, this
guy in a black costume just starts attacking them. So
can you imagine this? Like you're there, You're in a
diplomatic mission, right and you're just sitting there and then

(26:03):
this guy that my cost Like, you're like, no.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Be kidnapping ransom didn't have no money, And then.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
What would you think when he takes off his masks, like, oh,
I'm the king. I think he would be like.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
What the hell?

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Well, I don't know how you wouldn't just be like,
I'm getting back on the private plane. I'm getting back
on you know, air Force one or whatever baxtermobile they
took to get over here, and I'm going the hell
back home.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Now to Jawa. He did apologize and well, that's all
it takes, really, and he explained that the reason why
he attacked them was because he wanted to test themselves
against some of the best superheroes in the world, because
he wanted to see if they would be effective allies
in his quest against Claw and his mercenaries. He probably

(26:43):
could have just asked Johnny and Johnny would have fist
fought him. He probably He probably just could have asked
the Fantasy for to join and they probably would have. Yeah,
So Ulysses Claw eventually soon returned to Wakanda and began
attempting to invade the country. He wanted vibranium and he
wanted to use it to turn sound into a weapon.
With the help of the Fantastic Four and the Wakandan military.

(27:05):
T'Challa was able to defeat Claw and all his soldiers.
T'Challa realized the more Wakanda continued to excel as being
a technological powerhouse, the more outside threats would come at
his kingdom, and he then pledged his fortune, his powers,
and life to the service of all mankind in an
attempt to sort of stop these attacks. It doesn't work

(27:28):
spoiler alert about a superhero universe. After this adventure, T'Challa
teams up with Captain America and Sharon Carter in order
to defeat an impostor posing as the deceased Baron Zimo,
and this resulted in the forging of a strong friendship
between Captain America and Black Panther. This also connected T'Challa
to the legacy of his own heritage, as I said before,

(27:48):
because Steve Rogers knew his grandfather and kept the secret
of Wakanda. Now, this secret that Cap kept forever, of course,
is of value because Cap held the value of Wakanda
and my friends, if you find value in geek history lesson,
we asked that you return that value back to us

(28:09):
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(28:30):
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, let's go
back to Black Panther. Okay, So Tachala had now been

(29:13):
exposed to the Bigger World, and his time was now
really divided between being a king and a crime fighter.
He eventually became curious of the Avengers and unsure if
they were a threat to humanity or not. T'chala decided
to investigate the group of superhumans by infiltrating their ranks. Then,
this is a storyline that the Avengers Mightiest Heroes cartoon

(29:34):
really explored in some amazing episodes. That's a great show
if anyone has never watched it. When the Black Panther
traveled to the Avengers mansion, he snuck into the facility
only to find that the Avengers were dead dead. That
never happens now. Jarvis had walked in moments later, and
by the looks of it, Tatala had killed Goliath, Wasp,

(29:55):
and Hawkeye. It was later revealed that the Grim Reaper
had put the Avenger trio and a death like stasis,
framing the Black Panther, and the Black Panther managed to
defeat him and rescue the Avengers trio. He was then
offered membership to the Avengers, which he happily accepted as
o'challa would go on many adventures with the Avengers, eventually
becoming a veteran member, all while ruling his kingdom. Ooh,

(30:18):
ken to Challa do it all. Yes he cares again
he's super super smart now fun fact to'challa helped develop
the falcons first high tech fight suit. That's amazing. Yep,
it was from It's from t'all love it, Love it.
Some other adventors included WAP. Patrolling New York, Black Panther
was stopped by the police and DA District Attorney at
the time, Foggy Nelson, mistook the Black Panther for his

(30:42):
silhouette of Daredevil. They then asked the hero for his
assistance and administrating an antidote the Daredevil, who was then
close to death due to a medical treatment, reacting badly
with the realitroactive particles in his blood. Because remember Daredevil's
blood's all about radiation. Yeah, he's a turtle. Yep, I
need the hero. Black Panther managed to administer it and

(31:02):
then also learn Daredevil's secret identity. They fast became friends.
They worked together, and the two heroes teamed up to
ta take down Samuel Sackson, the man who had poisoned Daredevil,
and thus began a long friendship and career of team up.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I kind of like the idea that, like, oh, you
have vaguely the same silhouettes, these two characters should be friends.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
They do, Yeah, but soon Victor von Doom would into
a Black Panthers world. Now Ashley who is doctor Doom.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Doctor Doom is another super smart scientist who lives in
lat Veria as the King and he hates the Fantastic
Four mm hm, and Jason loves him. Yes, And when
you think about Black Panther and he's like, I'm the king. Yeah,
Black Panthers.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Like I am. There's the difference.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
So they're both kings, so it makes sense against each exactly.
And they're both Fantastic Four characters. I was just about
to ask you they are both Fantastic four characters, and
I was going to talk about this, do you Doom
and Black Panther will have a long going comic book relationship.
They're both kings of their own countries. They're both Fantastic
four cares. Do you like the idea that we're teeming

(32:11):
up these two that's you look at this, you can
sort of see a Black Panther storylines are about finding
you know, the sameness with other character parallels yeahah, paralle
excuse me, or was the other African superhero doctor Doom's
the other monarch monarch? What do you think about this?
I think that's interesting. I do also know that doctor
Doom and T'chala have made a couple really famous memes

(32:35):
from their Golden Silver age artwork they have. Yeah, there's
a lot of famous ones where like to o'chala's like
upper cutting Doom and it's sort of held up as like, hah,
we're taking the white person down. And I enjoy that
about it. I also think that for me, it kind
of gets lost that t'chala is a Fantastic four character,
even though particularly and you mentioned this at the top

(32:56):
of the episode, particularly given his intellect, it should be
the most obviously because all the smartest characters are Fantastic
four character.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
But many people think he's an Avengers character.

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yes, and part of that is the MCU branding as
well in the age that we live in. And I
like the idea that he does get his swipe at Doom.
I guess I think several several swipes. He also, speaking
of monarchs, has a long standing rivalry with nay More
another case.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Well, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Yes, another person, another fantastic four long standing character. I
don't know what I was trying to say. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
Now.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
When doctor Doom, the ruler of Latveria, which is basically
a small European country, learn yes, they have cows and castles.
When he learned of the existence of vibranium, he searched
for the small African nation with a mechanical eagle. Just
like his doombots.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
He is a Doom.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
And he uses He uses a tunneling device to travel
from Europe to Wakanda and causes seismic disturbances that rattled
the nation. You would have to under the ocean. Listen,
Doctor Doom. That's wild, Doctor Doom. He does. He doesn't
f around. He does he goes straight for it with
the tunneling machine underneath the Mediterranean.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Now the people called for Tachala, who returned home to
help because he, of course with the Avengers in America
New York, and he found Doom trying to repair a
malfunction in his device. He attacked doctor Doom and grabbed
his weapons and threatened to kill him. Doctor Doom called
his bluff, knowing the panther would not shoot an unarmed man.

(34:36):
Unfortunately for the Panther, Doom actually is armed because he's
a walking Iron Man suit. He's also a jerk, and
he Black Panther with with with energy blasts from his gaulllet.
I've seen this panel now. The two men would fight
while the with a Black Panther while he continued to
repair his telling device. Eventually, Doom wins, He shackles Black

(34:56):
Panther captures him. But eventually Doctor Doom's men became worried
with the leader's obsession with power. Now t'chall eventually escaped,
got in front of the Great Mound of Vibranium and
threatened to destroy all of a Conda's volatile substance of
vibranium because it's very explosive. I don't even know if you.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Know what a way. Yeah, so we should make it
into a shaild.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Obviously, any Doom back down from this stalemate and returned
to Lavaria.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
God damn right, you did, Victor.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Now many more adventures happened, and we're going to skip
ahead in time and we're gonna go to what I
think is the greatest Black Panther run of all time.
This is the run written by Christorher Priest in nineteen
ninety eight. Now, the reason why we're going to do
this is because Black Panthers and one of these characters that,
for a good chunk of his adventures was literally just

(35:49):
a supporting character. He would just show up an adventure, leave,
show up an adventure, and leave. And I really want
to talk about his solo adventures, his his ongoing titles. Cool.
So in nineteen ninety eight, Christorher Priest began writing the
Black Panthers Marvel Knights series, and Priest modernized the character
by building and expanding upon the Black Panther mythos that

(36:09):
was mapped out by Lee and Kirby in Priests retcon
Excuse Me of Wakanda. He established that bast the Egyptian god,
was the panther God, and that the Wakandans built their
religious cult of the Black Panther around this. Now, prior
to this, the panther God did not have a name
and did not have an origin. Christ Priest is also

(36:31):
responsible for the character of Everett Ross, who is played
by Martin Freeman in the movies. Now, he introduced Everett
Ross as basically a point of view character for the
audience to learn about Black Panther. He also expanded the
lore and cemented Black Panther as one of the most
cunning and manipulative minds in the Marvel universe. Now, let's

(36:52):
talk about his run. Cool While I'm a Conda did,
Challa received word that a member of his American based
children's charity had been murdered in cold blood in in
an attempt to console the young child's family, he traveled
to New York to investigate the situation. Meanwhile, Michael Achebe,
a citizen of a neighboring Wakandan country called Gudaza, initiated

(37:14):
a coupdata becoming Wakanda's usurper. Now, Goudaza was in the
midst of a civil war, and to Chala protected some
of his citizens by allowing them to live in Wakandan
refugee camps. Now at Chebe lived in one of those camps,
which gave him access to Wakanda, and with the help
of the demon Mephisto, he was able to overthrow T'chala

(37:37):
and all the technologically advanced soldiers of Wakanda. Well, having
the devil on your side helps a bit, I would
I reagine now Mefisto's gift to Achebe allowed him to
manipulate the Wakandan people into accepting him as the ruler
alongside to Chala's stepmother, remember her, Ramonde, I do remember her.

(37:58):
In return, Mefisto would get to devour a noble soul.
After uncovering Mefisto's involvement to Chala, attacked him, ripping out
the demon's heart. He was then transported to Hell, where
he was offered his own soul in exchange for Wakanda
and Achebe's freedom, under the impression that Mefisto was actually
possessing a Chebe jeez now. Mefisto accepted the offer and

(38:23):
revealed that a Chebe willingly sold his soul to him,
and Mefisto proceeded to try to devour to Challa's soul,
but was unsuccessful because of the panther God's spiritual connection
to t Chala. Oh I like that, that's kind of cool.
Hundreds of previous Wakandan kings and black panthers appeared in

(38:43):
front of to Chaala in the form of panthers, and
the panthers attacked and sent Mefisto back to Hell, allowing
T'chaala to escape. Now T'Challa attempted to make contact with
Wakanda via satellite, and a Chebe threatened to destroy all
of Conda if t'chala was ever to return home, and

(39:04):
as a result, T'Challa was exiled from a Conda and
the Wakandan citizens accepted Achebe excuse me as a surper
due to the conditions with Wakandan law wow. Now T'Challa
remains stateside in New York, attempting to uncover Achebe's other
allies because he knew that a Chebe couldn't be working alone.

(39:25):
It was later revealed that a Chebe was working with
the United States intelligence community, Russia, and a Latin American
terrorist state called dou Mooyan and an attempt to exploit
Wakandan's vibranium. However, King T'Challa had predicted that this would
happen years earlier and was understand well. He predicted that
three countries would do this. He was just uncertain about

(39:46):
which of the three countries attack first, and so he
had already had a countermover that was set up. T'Challa
presented the coup of tah to the UN Security Council
and acknowledged it as an act of war against Wakanda,
verbally declaring war or against the United States he was
living at the time, where he's actually living. Afterwards, he

(40:09):
and the Dora Malaje. Let's talk about the door of Malaje. Actually,
do you know what the dorm Lage are not really
They are his group of women warriors who are his protectors.
They are his personal guards. They are also sort of
set up. They're made of the different tribes of Akanda,
and they're sort of set up to be the wives

(40:30):
of the Black Panther. I like that partless, but because
it's the idea that you have to be really awesome
to be to the Dora Malaje, and then when the
king trusts you, he will take one of you as
his wife. Oh oh, so he takes one of them.
I know were no no, no, no, no, no, he takes
he did one of those ones.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
I'm instantly more interested in them. But Tala doesn't really
do that, So.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
So it's got a married storm.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
So T'chala with the Doramlage were approached by remember his
adopted brother Hunter that who wanted to help Chachala take
back Wakanda.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Oh that nice guy.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
So elsewhere. After hearing that t'chala had verbally announced war
with the United States, at Chebe began destroying Wakanda with
its own technology. Uh, and he tried to make it
look like t'chala was in control of the country, so
he tried to sell it as like the people were
being destroyed by their own king. Yeah, but Hunter, to

(41:31):
'challa's adopted brother, who lived in New York, offers to
help Tachalla, and o'all accepts Hunter's offer of assistance, and
Hunter vowed absolute loyalty to him. However, t'chala's acceptance was
all a ruse. He did not trust his adopted brother,
exciting citing his excessively violent history as the reason why,
and T'Challa later knocks him unconscious once he gets what

(41:53):
he wants from him. Good good for him, and he
flies to Macanda by himself to face at Chebe. They're
not good at being brought. No. When he finally confronted
at Chebe at the Wakandan Palace, to Chaa allowed himself
to be captured because he's watched all these modern movies
where the villain gets captured. It's part of their plan.
He's like, you know, he's got a good plan, lo
lo key. He knew that a Chebe would flee the

(42:15):
country in fear, basically exiling himself, making to Challa the
ruler again. And when T'Challa accepted at Chebe's death trap,
he was confronted by Hunter. So the final battle is
actually between Hunter and Ta'chala, which ends with T'chala using
a never before seeing Black Panther technique cool defeating him.
They then flee to the palace, going their separate ways

(42:37):
as at Chebe's explosive device is detonate, destroying the Wakandan Palace. Now,
this was basically the end of chrispher Priests run because
the Black Panther title was canceled. But for me, this
is the best run because it introduces a lot of
stuff that's new, and at the same time it doesn't
retcon everything else out of to Charles's history. It's sort

(42:57):
of is like a Grant Morrison Batman history, where it's
trying to take everything that's out there and make it
one history.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I also feel like it does maybe the best job
at updating the Black panther lore for a more modern
sensibility agreed now.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Later on, after teaming up with the X Men a
few times, T'chala and a rod mondro Storm begin dating
and to Chala helps her reunite with her surviving family
members in Africa, and after this he proposes to her.
Oh that's nice. She agrees, and the two were married
in a grand Wakandan ceremony, and for their honeymoon to

(43:33):
the two embarked on a diplomatic world tour. They visited Laveria.
Hey that place, Britain, Atlantis, Adeline. What's Adeline?

Speaker 2 (43:44):
That's where the inhumans live.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
It moves around before ending their honeymoon in the United States,
so they mostly go to fake places. Yeah, they go
to Marvel Place, other places with kings. Really. Once they
got to the US, though, their honeymoon is interrupted when
they find that this country was in the mist of
a civil war. Oh hey, I remember that. And while
visiting the White House, the authorities attempt to force Auroro

(44:08):
to sign the superhuman Registration that right because she's an
American citizen. This results and the Royal couple choosing the
side with Captain America and the Secret Avengers in the war. Now, Ashley,
let's back up a bit. What is the Superhero Civil
War in Marvel continuity?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
So in the Marvel Comics continuity, horrible things happen in
the US government says, if you are a superpowered being,
you should register with US, and Iron Man says no,
and Captain America Ironman says, Ironmn says yes, I'm sorry,
and Captain America says no. They're actually on the wrong sides,
which is why I get it confused. They should be
on opposite sides. A bunch of people fight each other,

(44:43):
and then Captain America dies.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
That's right. Now. After this Superhero Civil War, Black Panther
and Storm joined the Fantastic Four for a while because
Red and Sue actually were on opposite side. Sue was
actually with Captain America and Reid was with Tony, and
so re and Sue leave the team to go work
on their marriage, and Dwayne McDuffie, Great Great Milestone Rider

(45:07):
takes over the Fantasic Four with Black Panther and Storm
in charge. Now, after Secret Invasion, which is basically where
these scrolls attack Earth and we bring a bunch of
character spect to life, nay More makes the offer to
Black Panther to join his dark Cabal with Norman Osborne
because at this time Norman Osborne was basically in control
of Shield. Yes, but T'Challa stated that the Normal Illuminati

(45:29):
was enough for him. Now, Ashley, what is the Normal Illuminati.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
I'm gonna be honest, I know very little about the
Normal Illuminati. I believe it's a secret team operating in
the Marvel universe in the way that people think the
Illuminati operates in our world.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yes, it's basically you find out it's a retcon. You
find out that iron Man name more black Ball, Professor X,
doctor Strange, iron Man, you know, all the powerful wife guys,
and eventually Black Panther bluck Unders brought in later have
sort of teamed up to be this secret team to
sort of affect events.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Yes, and they've been pulling this. It revealed that they've
been pulling the strings behind a lot of.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
Events up to this, like they're the ones that sent
the Hulk into space and create a planet Hule. So,
although he was a little annoyed at the refusal, nay
More allowed T'Challa to peacefully leave, although as he prepared
to depart, Atlantis T'Challa was confronted by doctor Doom. That guy,
this guy again. He was not surprised that T'Challa refused

(46:30):
to join their cabal. Yeah, but Doom proceeded to attack him,
pitting T'Challa and his door at Malaje against Doom's doom Bots.
After the epic battle, this result that in Tachala becoming
gravely injured and the Door Malaje and T'Challa fled Atlantis.
They managed to crash Land and Wakanda, but this crash

(46:52):
sent Doom ex excuse me not, Doom sent to Chala
into a coma no, yes now. Tachawa after a couple
months later, awoke to find that Wakanda was being had
been attacked while he was asleep, and while he was
in a coma Shuri his sister became regent of Wakanda

(47:15):
and the new black Panther that's cool now. Tachala reached
out to powerful Wakandan alchemist Zawa vari excuse me led
the witch doctor, who has empowered him with acolytes and
enhanced his strength, senses, and provided him with a way
to resist Doom's magical based attacks. He then approached the

(47:37):
Door milage sense Aneka about blending science and sorcery into
his Wakandan battle techniques. Now, this would all been done
in preparation because T'Challa kind of was predicting that Doom
was going to attack. It's like I know this guy.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Now, in order to defeat doctor Doom, and these events
happened in this storylines called Doom War to Chala was
forced to destroy Wakandan's vibranium reserves by making the substance inert,
basically making all vibranium in the world useless. He then
relinquished his authority of Wakanda to current Black Panther his

(48:16):
sister Shiry, and he left Wakanda to deal with his shame.
He traveled back to his favorite city in the world,
New York, where he reached an agreement with Matt Murdoch
to become the new protector of Hell's Kitchen.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Oh I didn't know that that's cool.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, because Matt decided to leave New York to deal
with his morality issues during what happened during Shadowland That's
basically where Matt Murdoch becomes in control of the Hand
and gets possessed by a demon. It's best forgotten.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
Oh, I'm calling it right now. At Daredevil season three,
Black Panther Crossing, Oh.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I wish thanks to some help from Foggy Nelson, to'challa
establish an undercover identity as mister o'conquo nailed it. The manager,
I'm sorry for betraying all these names. I've never heard
them said a lot.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
They're also fake Marvel names from not a real language,
So I think you're forgiving.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Mister Okunquol, the manager of the restaurant called the Devil's Kitchen. Now,
to'challa finished his duty in Hell's Kitchen and returned home
to Wakanda, And sometime after that, attacks from a city
below Wakanda called Necropolis began constantly happening by undead soldiers.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
My underground city has always got to be called a
secret city underneath a secret city. Imagine now, T'Challa called
Read Richards to help him think through the situation, as
he was the only person that T'Challa believed could keep
up with him intellectually.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
That's actually fall Doctor Doom could have kipped up with him. Yes, well,
doctor James as smart as read. Yeah, is moon Girl
alive at this time? I know she's like ten. I
mean sure, you know. Richards into Challa stepped into the
dark underground city of Necropolis, the city of the Dead,
where all the Black Panthers were laid to rest, and

(49:57):
they eventually met Bastett, the panther god, and t'chala told
her that he desired to be Black Panther again, but
doesn't want to steal the title away from Shuri. Meanwhile, Shuri, Susan,
Richards and Storm took a herb to make them see
the gods, and immediately took the undead battle to Anubis,
the god of the Dead, who was the source of

(50:18):
the undead soldiers. They encountered and engaged with the Nubis
and its army, and Basque showed T'Challa a vision of
Wakanda being flooded and told him that the catastrophic destruction
of Wakanda is but a prelude to something worse, and
for the salvation of his nation, he must become her
king and not Wakanda's. So she deemed him King of

(50:41):
the Dead, allowing Tachala to gain the power and knowledge
at all times of all past Black panthers, becoming a
king of kings. Oh so he's the avatar now, Yes,
he is. He is Bass Champion. He is Bass Black Panther,
and he is now the ruler of nacro Bliss while
Shurrey keeps power in Wakanda. That's cool now. Future events

(51:05):
during Avengers versus X Men would lead to storm into
Challeng's marriage being annulled, and eventually Namer would attack and
destroy Waconda, the capital city. Naywayer, You're the worst, which
is the thing that bast was talking about. Yeah, cataclasm.
And eventually Black Panther and his Illuminati learn about incursions
that is basically planets of the multiverse destroying each other

(51:27):
because they're crashing each other.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
And during an incursion between Earth six one six, which
is the Marvel Universe, and Earth four two nine zero
zero zero one, the Black Panther and the Illuminati were
forced to consider either destroying the incursive world or kill
its many innocent people and allow it to just collide
with their world. To save Face, Panther tries to work
up the nerve to press the detonator that would destroy

(51:51):
the other Earth, and the ghost of his father to
Chaka appears to him and demands that he acts saying
that it is the job of Black Pants to protect
the Kingdom of Wakanda. In the end, to Challa doesn't
go through with it, and enraged, to Chaka strips his
son of his kingdom, his people, and his post of

(52:12):
the King of the Dead. And as far as to
Chok a ghost Choka is concerned, he has no suck. Oh,
that's extreme, mister. Eventually, only nay More is the only
member of the Illuminati who is able to press the
button and blow up Earth four two nine zero zero
zero one. Of course, anymore can do it. More is
a dick. Yeah. During the Final Incursion, Black Panther was

(52:36):
one of the heroes that tried to stop Earth one
six one zero from destroying his Earth. Earth one zero
is the ultimate universe Earth. You've got miles on it, huh,
and Mister Fantastic and Black Panther were forced to put
their lifeboat into action. As the lifeboat was deployed basically
is saving a bunch of people, Manifold teleported numerous heroes
into it, including Spider Man, star Lord, Captain, Marvel, Cyclops,

(52:59):
and Thor, which allowed them to survive the end of
the multiverse. Black Panther and the other heroes in the
life Rife raft Excuse me, would later be awakened by
Doctor Strange eight years after the end of the Multiverse
and the creation of battle World, which is a planet
cobbled together from the fragments of destroyed realities ruled by

(53:21):
Doctor Doom. Now this was the great cataclysm that the
Panther god was also telling him about. Yes, now, this
is the event called Secret Wars. And eventually, I don't
want to dive too deep into it read Richards eventually
puts the multiverse back together, and as the inhabitants of
brattle World excuse me, we're trying to run from their
ultimate demise, Black Panther during the story, steals the reality

(53:42):
Jem and grips tightly onto it. And as he is
gripping tightly to it, and as battle World vanishes from existence,
to 'challa wishes for a reborn and vital Waconda and
guess what he gets. He gets his wish to Jaala,
that was a good wish. Yeah you done, good yep,

(54:04):
And that brings us up currently to the tanah See
Coats current run, which is basically a superhero game of Thrones.
Black Panther back in control of his kingdom. I don't
really want to talk about it because it's currently being published.
And Chadwick Boseman, of course plays the actor in the
Black Panther movie and in you know, Captain America Civil War,
and that is the lesson on Black Panther.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
That was good.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I thought that was fascinating. Well, speaking of fascinating, let's
move into recommended reading, yes.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Where Professor Jason is going to recommend a bunch of
stuff that you can read if you want more Black Panther.
You can find all of these suggestions at Geekhistory lesson
dot com slash recommended Reading. There's a bunch of cool
little Amazon widgets. You click the one you like the best,
you buy it, a little bit comes back to support
us and let us keep recommending reading for you, and
you can find a whole bunch of them over there. Now.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
I just want to point out because we get a
lot of questions on Twitter where people are always like, hey,
what should I read if I like this person? Hey?
What should I read if I like this? And I
just want to just, you know, reaffirm this recommended reading
list that we have over at Gey Cansher Lesson dot
com is the best place because we've done one hundred
and ninety eight episodes Gey Caitel Lesson, and I guarantee

(55:11):
you the character you're probably asking about, we've probably recommended
some reading for it.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
And one of the reasons that we have it there
is a resource for people.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yes, so it's always there, it's all you know, and
it's always up.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Go hit command F and search for what you're looking for.
That's right, all right.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Number one is Black Panther by Christopher Priest, the Complete Collection,
Volume one. It collects about the first like twelve to
fifteen issues of the Christopher Priest run. I believe there's
like three to four volumes of this. It is the
best Black Panther run. The art's a little dated, but
I like the Marvel Knights Black Panther costume the best.
It's really cool and has an amazing cover. So Christmer

(55:46):
Priests adds, think about what Jeff Jones did to Green Lantern,
that's what chrystpher Priest did for Black Panther. Absolutely, it's
an amazing, amazing story. Mike suggest second suggestion is Black
Panther Doom more mm hm, because I love Doom facing
off against Black Panther, Doctor Doom. Yes, so it's that's

(56:10):
the story where, of course Black Panther gets exile from
his own country because he does the ultimate thing, which
I think is a nice callback to that original stan
Lee Jack Kirby story where Black Panther threatens to do
that and Doom's like, all right, I'll leave.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
And then the third choice is Black Panther A Nation
under Our Feet Book one that is the ton of
Heasy Coats run it is. It looks like the movie
kind of tied it into the movie, and again, like I'm
not joking, it is basically superhero Game of Thrones and
it's quite enjoyable, So there you go. I would put
an honorable mention is because it's not finish yet and
there is no trade. Is Rise of the Black Panther,

(56:46):
which is, as I said, is Black Panther Year one.
Only one issue has been released at the time of
this recording, and I think it's quite it's a quite
a enjoyable book.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
I would also put an honorable mention to an article
that you can find called the Man who made Black
Panther Cool and it will tell you why. Christophre this
is amazing and I read it recently and I thought
it was fast.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
I think it's on Vulture, I believe, so. All right,
for our discussion, we wanted to talk to a man
who had seen Black Panther but also had a need
to see a movie like Black Panther for years. And
that man is Jay Washington. You've seen him on Collider,
Movie Talk and the Shmowdown Movie Trivia Challenge, and he's

(57:24):
also the host of the Trusty Sidekick podcast. So please
welcome mister J Washington to the show for a non
spoiler talk about Black Panther. Welcome to gig History Lesson,
mister J. Washington man.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Now, you are at a bit of an advantage because
at the time of this recording, you have seen the
movie Black Panther and I have not.

Speaker 3 (57:46):
Yes, I feel like I beat you.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
I went up to you finally at something, but yeah,
I had the honor of going to see it for
screening and I am still in awe over what I saw.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Now, real quick, I want to ask you, I want
to get a a little bit of your bonus fetes
and here now, how much of Black Panther and the
comic books.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Have you experienced? I grew up on it, Okay, I tell.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
I wrote an article on my website for my podcast,
and I talked about how imagine being a kid, an
eight year old kid that really can't go outside because
not because you're sick or anything, but because it's too violent,
and so you're stuck with video games when you do
that and trying to occupy yourself and the world. And

(58:30):
then you get taken to a local grocery store or whatnot,
and you see the news section and you see comic
books and you start reading them and reading them. Then
all of a sudden, one day you're reading one and
you see a character that you don't know, and you're like,
who's this black panther? You're like, Oh, this mutst to
be just like everybody else. And then you further read
and find out it's a black dude, and it's not

(58:53):
just any black dude. It's a king in a land
in Africa. And it's like, as a kid, we're learning
about this in history and stuff. So that allowed me
to get more ingrained in it because I was interested.
I needed to know more about this character. I need
to know what is this land? How does this person,
because how do you make a character like this after
everything I've seen hasn't been like that. The closest thing

(59:14):
to being different is anything I seen in the X Men,
you know, or you know, things like that with mutants.
But when I saw this, so I'd always been a
fan of it, you know, I follow.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
You remember what some of those issues or do you
remember like something like what happened in those issues or
anything like that? I do you still have those issues? No?

Speaker 4 (59:30):
I wish you know, between moving and my house originally
caught fire. My grandmother just has a called fire. One time,
a lot of stuff we had burned. So I don't
have you.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Lost a good chunk of your comic boo collection in
the fire.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
I had, man, I have so many. But yeah, I
wish I could remember exactly what it was. But I
know how I knew, and I started, you know, every
time I get a chance to hear about it and
catch up my brains, like, let's we visit this often.
And so it wasn't just oh, because of the movie,
it was just let's keep revisit this. And I kept
doing that, so I always stayed to breast on it.
And then it got to the point where BT was
going to do a Black Panther animated series, and I

(01:00:04):
was like, what didn't they end up doing on? Yes,
they did, yeah, with Reginald Reginald. They took the Hudland run.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
And then it was the John Remita junior art and
they animated it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Just animated and Jamanhansu voiced T'Challa. That's a good choice,
and it was cool. But it was like, yo, this
comes on at two in the morning. Oh really, Yeah,
it came on way late. So I saw it on
a DVD like years later, right, but nobody knew because
nobody could find it because it was so late, and so,
you know, fast forward. Then you're like, all right, well
we're going back to the regular heroes again. The slate

(01:00:33):
gets announced Black Panther has a movie.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
I believe it when I see it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
That's yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
You know, Marvel Slate was always.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
If it's on our slate, it's happening, but that one
was I'll believe it when I see it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Now, let me ask you this as an African American man,
Let's let's back up before Civil War. Okay, okay, because
Civil War is the first time that we see this
Black Panther on screen. Now, were you reticent walking into
that movie being like, oh, man, I hope they pull
off as a character.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Yes, absolutely, because I was talking. I talked to friends
about seeing the set photos. Of course, set photos don't
always give you the glory and the lust, not really exactly,
but because it looks so like, oh my god, what
are they doing? But of course a lot of the
CGI rendering hadn't been done. I still was like, I'm
just hoping. I'm just hoping. And then I was a
little bit hesitant until I saw the trailer. When I
saw the trailer, I was like, whoa, I gotta go

(01:01:25):
see this. And so when I went to the Civil War,
I was like, I don't know how much screen time
they're gonna give them because we didn't know. We just knew
it was a civil war aspect exactly. We didn't know
what was gonna go down and see. In a sense,
to Chala is the focus of everything, why things are happening. Yeah,
because of the murder of Bucky. Because of the murder
excuse me of ta Chaka and they're chasing Bucky. Everything

(01:01:46):
revolves around that. But baron Zimo, so it all encompasses
one another, you know. And so when I saw that,
I was like, oh, they did this justice. And then
you go to the after credits where Bucky's in a
Wakandan lab and you see it's this technology so significant
in advance. And then Captain America says, what if people
try to come and get him? And he says, let

(01:02:07):
them try. And then you see the panther and it
was like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
God, we know he's w Conda. Yes, I will say
as a comp event, I freaked out of that moment
because I never imagined Wakanda or them being able to
pull off Wakanda in live action. Yes, that, and it
took me a second to figure out that they were
in Wakanda. Yeah, which, but but then when we see
all the texts like yellow, You're like, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
Here, we are here, we are all right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Now you have seen this Black Panther movie. I'm not
What were your thoughts before you saw the movie? Were
you nervous, were you excited?

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
How did you feel about.

Speaker 4 (01:02:44):
Like standing on this precipice both Well, I was both
nervous and excited. I was super excited because again I
never thought I would see this. I've never thought I
would see this hero in live action is in his
own film. Yeah, I mean you could see him in ensembles,
but his own film. I was nervous because this had
to be good. And I say that because of the
way women felt with Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman had to

(01:03:05):
be good because if not, you won't give it a
second chance. It'd be ten fifteen years before we hear.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
And you felt the same way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
But I felt the exact same way about Black Panther.
So it was nervous. It's like, this just hot.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
I mean, the trailers have been phenomenal, but trailer is
a one thing. Trail is a one thing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
And so I went in.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
I was like, look, I'm nervous, this is happening. I'm
ready for it, but this has got to be good.
And all of my worries and expectations were lifted from
the first.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
Ten minutes because it just that quick.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
You it was because I know a lot of people
will say, well, you're you're already gonna like it, no
matter if it was good or bad. No, I was good.
If it was bad, I would have just been I
saw it, Yeah I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
It, but you would have given it the reaction that
that most people give meteor Man or blank Man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
So and I know why the story of media Man
is so.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
But I was like, I watched it, I was like, Oh,
they're doing so much justice with this. They are paying
so much homage and giving so much reverence to the character,
the back stories, not just story stories. And I was like,
we're in for this. And it was just started watching
it and everything was happening. The colors, even the colors
we see in the trailers don't even do it justice

(01:04:17):
to what you see in the film.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
You see in some of.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
The trailers, the reverence to African garb and different ritualistic practices.
It's well, it's over ten, from one to ten, over
ten what you see in the film, and just the
beauty and the one thing everyone kept seeing in the
trailer the door Malaje, his personal guard, guard, his personal guard,

(01:04:42):
all strong, badass women and to see them on the
screen and be put on a pedestal.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
Where they deserve, like there is no belittering them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
They're like the equals of the Amazon.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
Yes, they are the equals of the Amazon's.

Speaker 4 (01:04:56):
Like everyone respects them and knows, yo, you gotta come
hard with them or don't at all and to see
what they have them do.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
It was beautiful because again, I have.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
A daughter, and when my daughter gets older to see
this and can understand it fully, you know, even she's
four now, but still I want to be able to
sit down and watch it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, have a four year old?

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Will you let her see it? Four?

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Not yet?

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
Too violent?

Speaker 4 (01:05:16):
Too not even too violent. It's just that I don't
know if she would process everything. I want her to
be able to process and understand it, and the.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
Four years old, I don't think she could. But seeing it,
it was just so much.

Speaker 4 (01:05:26):
The soundtrack, forget the soundtrack, the score were a lot
of people were worried about the score because you heard
Kidrick La Worm's.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
On the soundtrack.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
You're like, okay, but does that mean all these songs
will be embedded throughout the movie And they're embedded where
they deserve to be, they need to be. They play
perfectly when they're they're needed. There are so much the
cultural here, the drums, the chance, the music is Africa
in it. And it was like this, the sounds, the sights,

(01:05:55):
It encapsulates your senses.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
Now, let me ask you this. A lot of people
gave Black Panther a lot of shade because the very
first trailer for Black Panther released had Andy Serkis and
Martin Freeman to very white gentlemen leading the trailer for
Black Panther. Now Martin Freeman is playing Everett Ross, who
is a Black Panther supporting character in the comic books.

(01:06:17):
He's like Cha'challa's adoptive brother, best friend. Yeah, and they've
completely gone away from that. And then also Andy Serkis
plays the man who killed his father in the comic books.
They've obviously changed that as well. How do you feel
those two How do you feel about those two characters
in this movie? Are they superfluous or do they serve

(01:06:38):
a purpose?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
They serve a purpose?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Okay, they do serve a purse.

Speaker 4 (01:06:40):
They serve a purpose, and they aren't the focus of
the films.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Good because let's just say they're not the focus of
the films.

Speaker 4 (01:06:47):
You know, when people we saw the trailer that in
June during the Game four of the NBA Finals, everyone
was mad because the people who were mad because of
that didn't pay attention to what the trailer was us
because all it was was them talking. What do you
know about Wakanda? This is an introduction for people who've
never heard of this. They remember, when we talk about

(01:07:09):
these superhero films, a lot of people don't know the
backstory exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
And at this point you'd only seen Black Panther as
sort of an avenger.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
Right, it's sort of an avenger. You hear of the
nation of Wakanda. You don't know what this is. What
do you know of Wakanda textiles? You know, males, blah
blah blah. She's like, here's something more.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Does the majority of this movie take place in Wakanda?

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Good, Yes, very good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
Over ninety percent takes place is great, Yes, and it's
just well. And the way they brought Wakanda to life
is Ryan Coogler, his visual team's art team, and those
guys and those men and women behind computers.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
And you were telling us, you were telling me that
the cinematographer of this movie is the same cinematographer as
mud Bawl. Yes, Rachel Morrison and mud Bound was a
beautiful movie.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
And it's beautiful. Mud Bownd is a beautiful film as
his Black Panther. She has so many shots that are
nothing like any other Marvel film. There are things that
she took an artistic chance with and pulled off amazingly.
You know there are times where CGI goes into practical
with the full shot and it's just you couldn't tell

(01:08:13):
the difference.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Yeah, that's great, and it just just sometimes the weakness
of Marvel film.

Speaker 4 (01:08:17):
Yes, but the way she they pulled this off, there
is no there's no weakness to it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
That's great. It's funny. I saw a tweet ways back
by Patton Oswald talking about Ryan Coogler and talking about
Black Panther and basically saying that he's like, this filmmaker's thirty.
Isn't it amazing that we have years and decades of
more films from this amazing Villein director.

Speaker 4 (01:08:37):
And I think people have to realize that, like, Ryan
Coogler's a young dude who's not on social media. Creed
was awesome, Creed pro for Rail Station hits you in
all the hard strings. He is three for three. Is
not that often that every director comes out and they
are on the money with all of their films. Sometimes
people are split. Sometimes people are like, I just don't

(01:08:59):
like what they did. He is three for three.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Let me ask you this just so we get an idea.
Let's let's hear your let's hear your Marvel bias. Where
does Black Panther rank in the Marvel movies? Does it
make it in the top five?

Speaker 3 (01:09:15):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
Okay, this is this is this is I put you
on air. Can you will you tell me?

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Top five?

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
Uh? Now, after seeing this, Black Panther goes one. Wow,
Captain America's Winter Soldier goes two, Guardians of the Galaxy
goes three, Thaw, Ragnar Rock four, and five would be.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Iron Man three, iron Man three. Oh you're you're a
Shane blackfan.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
It's shame Black. The way you did this was it
was it was. It was darker.

Speaker 4 (01:09:46):
It was darker, and you know, especially because two should
have been darker. When we were teasing the Demon in
the bottle, we.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Should have they should have been Demon in the bottle.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
We were teasing it like you're gonna go demon in
the bottle and you didn't. And so the dark one
we thought we're gonna two. We got it in three.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:00):
And you know, granted, I like all the other films.
I'm sorry, five is not three. I'm sorry five a
Civil War? Sorry?

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
Why do I forget that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Three is six?

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
And now let me ask you this without any spoilers
of Black Panther. Do you want to see a trilogy
A solo Black Panther? Do you want Black Panther two,
Black Panther three now based off this first movie?

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
Yes, because there's so many doors they open up in
this film.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Because some of the Marvel heroes they can't carry that, like.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
No, they can't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
Like Thor proved he did. Thor should have only gotten
two movies Joe and maybe iron Man as well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
Well, that's because as a whole growing up, most people
didn't care about iron Man. And if you cared about Thor.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
I was the one.

Speaker 1 (01:10:44):
I was the one when they announced this movie and
everybody was like iron Man, I was like, yeah, iron Man,
he was a d LUs character.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Okay, yes, Sore if you were a fan of Adventures
and Babysit and.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Yes, do this Vincent and Afrio man, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:58):
And so it's the way the film is set up,
the characters that are in this film, the cast that
they put together, where you know, even if the Angela Bassett,
who plays the child's mother, dies off, you still have
the supporting cast behind it where there's still more stories
available within Wakanda because some of the run from the

(01:11:21):
Tanahasee coats with it being a political struggle within Wakanda,
you know, and that can always happen because there's never
gonna be contentment with one king, like there's never contentment
with the president. That's why we have elections, you know,
there's never contentment with a governor. You know, things like that.
So there's possibilities for different storylines.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
And you don't have to feed in the other Avengers.

Speaker 4 (01:11:44):
You know, you can feed in outside supplemental characters, but
you don't have to feed in these big name characters.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
Now, let me ask you this, is there a chance
do you think that based off the strength of this movie,
is there a chance we could get a or a
Malage movie or even a Black Panther movie starring Surry
his sister.

Speaker 3 (01:12:07):
Now I'm hoping that because you know, one of.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
My favorite runs of Black Panther is Panther.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Yeah. They set it up where she can be kind
of like a Bucky Winner soldier.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
Yeah, they said it where she can be because she
makes everything, so why wouldn't she make herself a suit and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
She's a great the actress they cast her, Yeah, Black Mirror,
she's also on Doctor Who Dude, great.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
This has been her year, this is her year, and
the Door of Malache movie. I would love to see it.
I think they'll do The Lady Liberators first.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
Oh interesting, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:12:43):
Because I know Tessa Thompson and a few other of
the women in Marvel have been pushing for that angle.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
So I think we may some rumors that might be
the Black Widow movie.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
That might be, which I'm not. I have no go forward.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
So if you get the Lady Liberator, I think we
would get that one first. A film around the Dormalaje.
I don't know if it would sell as well because
they work. Granted, they're all bad, they're strong and they're
good and then I say bad, I mean good. They
work being the personal guard to the king and serving

(01:13:17):
the Crown of Wakanda. So it would have to be
in the realm of a Black Panther film, if that
makes sense. You know you can't, I mean you can't
just have the Dormaalogie just going out and you don't
hear anything about the Black Panther.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
So let me ask you this final question. Somebody's out there.
They saw a civil war. They weren't a big fan
of Black Panther. They don't know if they're going to
go see Black Panther. What would you say to them
to go? How would you convince them to go see
Black Panther? What would you say?

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
First of all, open your mind, Open your mind, just Niah, Yeah,
quato and original total ricon. Open your mind to something
in which you've never experienced you have. You'll learn the
backstory of this character quickly and you'll understand it. It
won't be like a flash in the pan. You'll understand
the set up, the origins, and where everything goes. If

(01:14:05):
you've never seen this character, be prepared to have a
cultural embrace.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
Go see it for If you say you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Want to explore other cultures and know about different lifestyles.

Speaker 3 (01:14:16):
This film does that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
It brings cultures that you hear about and that sometimes
with Africa we only see of the poverty stricken areas
wa Kanda's a fictional nation, and they took real elements
of real parts of major cities in different countries within Africa.

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
I would say go see it for the.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
Culture experience, for the heartstrings that get pulled, for the
performances by all of the cast members, not just Chadwick, Bowser,
not just Michael Bjordan, not just Lapida Neango. Dinan Guerrero says,
this movie has a fantastic cast. This cast is real,
Sterling K. Brown, Winston, Duke, Forrest Witteker, Angela Bassett. If

(01:14:55):
those names, if you liked products with all projects, with
all these actors, you now have them brought together the
n one, and I would say, go for that experience.
More so, be open and open your mind to a
lot of people will shut it off because why do
I want to see something called the Black Panther, especially
in this.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Day and age.

Speaker 4 (01:15:11):
Go see it and just allow yourself to be open.
Don't go into this movie comparing it to any other film.
First and foremost, Yeah, go in and see this film.
Don't say, oh, this has got to be like Iron Man,
this is got to be like Guardians.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Go to this film to see this film.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
Nice, I think you convinced. Well, I was gonna go
see it no matter. Hopefully very soon, Jay, tell our
lovely listeners where they can find you online, and tell
us about your podcast as well.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
Absolutely, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at
mister J. Washington. That's m R J. A y Wa
s h I n G T O N.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
You can check out the Trusty Sidekick podcast on iTunes,
Google Play where you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:48):
Get your podcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:15:49):
It is myself and Bobby Hill, and what we do
is every week we recap and get you caught up
on all the news and going on in the Marvel
and DC Live Action cinematic universes.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
So that means every.

Speaker 4 (01:16:00):
Single television to watch, every single show, every television show
all right, every movie that comes out at the top,
all the news surrounding everything.

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
Every week we get people caught up on it. Nice.

Speaker 4 (01:16:10):
So we do this for the fans, you know, because
we love all the properties and we and you're super nerds.
We're super nerd. And the thing is we real quick.
We always talk like barbershop talk. We're nerds where we like, Yo,
let's just talk like we're just normally having a conversation
and we just happen.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
To record it. That's all it is.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Those are the best podcasts. Yeah, unlike this podcast. At
least teach you stuff like stuffy teachers. Jay, thank you
so much for talking, Thank you having us man, Thank
you man, and I thought that was a great discussion.
Thank you so much, Jay for joining us on the show.
Go follo him, go listen to Trusty sidekick do all
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
Also watch him on our YouTube channel where he helps
us talk about black lightning.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
He does talk about black Lightning with us YouTube dot
com slash job. All right, let's move into the DJing tweet.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
We're in one hundred and forty unless you're during two
hundred and eighty characters sticking more or less. Professor Jason
is going to summarize everything you just taught you about
Black Panther, and you can always find these every Tuesday
at GHL podcast Black Panther.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
He's as smart as Reid Richard's, has a cooler costume,
and can definitely kick CAF's ass. Why did it take
so long to get him his own movie? He's a king.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
We talked about one Black Panther, and you loved it
so much that we're back to talk about another one
because your Geek History Lesson On Shurrey is now in session.
Hello and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
I'm Jason Black Panther in men, Welcome to your mind University,
the place of learning and knowledge that we call this
podcast Geek History lesson, because we are the podcast that
teaches you about one character, team or construct and a
little bit about it about a little bit less than
an hour and today, because yeah, so many of you

(01:17:55):
loved our Black Panther episode and the world is loving
the Black Panther movie, that we decided to talk about
the next character that everybody would suspect that we would
talk about on the episode, that, of course is ulysses Klaw.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Right, Yeah, you nailed it, that's what we're talking about. Yeah, absolutely,
we're gonna go talk about a white guy now. No,
like we said on the intro, we're actually talking about Shury.
And I just want tough yes, uh and Ramonda, I
want to call a little bit of shade on our listener. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 3 (01:18:25):
We just started the pod.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
I know everyone's actually screaming out their iPhone, just flicking
it off right now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
Actually, we wouldn't have gotten to two hundred and one
episodes of this podcast without our with our fans, so
please tread lightly.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
I just want to say that not a single one
of y'all requested a Shury episode, but I have three
requests for the Dora Milage.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
You guys gotta do better.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
All right, I'm gonna give you all right, I will
join you with that. I'll give him a little bit. Sury,
especially in the movie, she was great. And so we're
gonna that's why you're all gonna happen. We're in charge,
so we're talking about you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
You're all gonna have to stay after class and write
two essay about why Surry's great and also write Wakanda
forever on the blackboard over and over and over again.
I wish you don't in schools don't have blackboards anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
They have dry erase boards. Now we're old, We are old.

Speaker 1 (01:19:13):
Okay, cool. Yeah, we're gonna talk about Shurry, who is
played by what is the actresses name, Leticia Wright. She
was excellent in the movie, so we're going to find
out where their character is excellent in the comics. Are
you ready to move into the first section of the podcast?
I think we are in, Jason, what is that?

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
It is the ten cent Origins Sunday Sundays Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Hey, we've gon to two hundred and one episodes. Things change, Baby.
The tencent Origin is the section of the podcast, the
first section of our podcast where we're going to give
you the basic cliff notes versions of everything you need
to know about Shurry of Black Panther fame in case
you go to a Wakanda Forever Embassy party. Oh, that'd
be so dope, and we need to tell some Everett

(01:19:50):
Ross's and some CIA people about Shurry. This is how
you're gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:54):
Yes, listen. Shurry is of course a Marvel Comics character.
She is a Black Panther and famous for appearing in
that title as well as being the Princess of Wakanda.
She's the younger half sister to T'Challa. You may know
from the Black Pants. I don't know if everyone knows that,
and her first appearance was in Black Panther Number two
from May of two thousand and five, when she was

(01:20:16):
originally created by Reginald Hudland and John Bramata Junior. Her
abilities include anamorphism, genius level, intellect, expert, martial artist, necromancy,
oh yeah, super speed, stone skin, and when she has
ingested the heart shaped herb that gives the Black Panther
their powers, she has enhanced agility, durability, endurance, reflexes, senses, speed, stamina,

(01:20:39):
and strength. Nice and like Jason referred to earlier. It
was famously famously portrayed by Letitia Wright in the Black
Panther movie in twenty eighteen. Yeah, and so there's your
there's your ten cent origin of your sure eio.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Our next section of our podcast is the meat cute.
That's so weird when you do you don't like? You
don't like these? No, we paid seven thousand dollars for
those sound cues. Do you that's not me? I think
if you think that's that's an insult to it's actually
Ricky Gervais. We paid Ricky Gervais seven thousand dollars to

(01:21:15):
do those. It's probably cheap for Ricky chops those sound cues.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
If Rickard Gervas would like to come on Geek History lesson,
I'd like to offer him the opportunity to teach a
lesson on his cat Ollie, Who's Twitter account I follow?

Speaker 1 (01:21:26):
Oh nice? Yeah, all right, let's move shut out. All right,
so we're gonna move into the cute. Yeah, what's that, Jason?
Where we stole a term romantic comedies. It's the term
of how two characters first met each other. And this
is where we talk about where we first met Surrey.
Mm hmmm, uh, Ashley, Yeah, where'd you first encounter Shurrey?
I'm very curious about this because I know you have

(01:21:47):
not read a lot of Black Panther comic books.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
I literally knew nothing about Shurry until I saw the
Black Panther movie. So I saw, I saw pictures of
Empire Magazine, the Black Panther trailers.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
Is your I was like, gosh, she's cute. What's up
was that?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Yeah? Like you said, I didn't read I think, like
a lot of people, I didn't read a lot of
Black Panther until the hype for the movie came up.
I read the ton of He's Coats Run a little
bit before, but she's not a huge part of that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
No, she's not.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Yeah, and that's something that we'll get into in our
history one on one Jason, where did you first meet Surey?

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
Was it in Wizard Magazine?

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
No, it's not because she's more recent characters. She's a
very recent characters. Fine, she's almost a red con to
be honest, she is technically speaking a retcon.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
Yes, because I, as you know, am a big fan
of everything Kirby. So I have read a lot of
Black Panther, Black Panther is one of my favorite characters
in the Marvel universe because he's a Fantastic Quest He's
a Fantastic Four character, are Fantastic Four episodes. I'm at Jason.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
Todd, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
I so I have read the Reginald Hudland run with
geohen Remeda Junior. And I read it because at the
time I was a big fan of gehen Remeda Junior.
I'm not a big fan of that run, but the
first time I actually I've read that run after I
read Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic four run, and that's the run
is a big yard of and that's the run where

(01:23:09):
t'chala becomes the King of Necropolis, the King of the Dead,
and Sury is in that run, and that was the
first time that I sort of I sort of knew
who Sury was, and I had heard that she had
become the new Black Panther, but I didn't read any
of her stuff until the Fantastic Four run and the
Reginal Headline run. I've never read her solo series. Well,

(01:23:30):
so you're not missing much. So that's right. Last, That's
where I've met Shurry Cool cool. All right, let's move
into history.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
All right, So before we dive right into the history
one on one, as we were.

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
The main section of our podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
Yes, if you could figure that out. Yeah, reheed your
vas he said it, we heard him, as we're famous for.
I'm going to start with a caveat.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Oh I'd love to do that though.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
And yeah, and this isn't a caveat about the publication history,
although we're going to talk a little bit about that.
This is a caveat about my opinion on this care
because I don't okay, okay, this is interesting. In at
two hundred and one episodes, I don't think you've ever
done this right. And I mean, I'm gonna be honest.
I haven't loved every single character that I've ever taught
a lesson on. I don't think you of either. That's
just what you do. Look and you find interesting things

(01:24:15):
in that character. I was very, very excited to teach
this lesson. I was very share you requested it. I
was very excited to read more about Shurry because I
didn't know anything about her outside the movie. I have
a lot of respect for Reginald Hudland as a writer.
He did a lot of amazing things in Milestone. The
treatment of this character in the writing and in particularly

(01:24:37):
in the art as a female I found borderline insulting.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Are you going to point this out when.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
You get to am She's not treated as very capable,
she's not treated as very likable. And it's a lot
of TNA shots, which I think is completely unnecessary. I
don't think a character, despite what they're wearing, needs to
have their nipple showing just because they're female. And that's
a lot of what the Shuri. So those series we
explained because there's children's listening. So if you don't know

(01:25:04):
what TNA is, you're probably too young and you can
google it right there and an and unnecessarily so now
sometimes you're going to be popping a squat and I
can get well, you know, if you're squatting, like if
a character is squatting down or something like, I get
it going with, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:22):
But there's a there's just a lot here.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
And sure he is a character who is treated more
as a hot girl in a cat suit than an
actual capable character like we see in the movie. That's
the question what we're in for in this She's very objectified. Yes, okay,
and she's insulted by her mother, by her brother, and
by the panther god my best yes, who at this

(01:25:48):
point is just referred to as the panther God because
just actually the panther God was secondment Bass is just
the cat god. So in the more modern Black Panther runs,
it's simply the panther God. But Bast being called Bast Bass.

Speaker 1 (01:26:04):
Is an invention of the Christopher priest Ray, which happened
in nineteen ninety eight, which is way before this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Yeah, but that's what I mean. So in the more
modern suf because this is O five, which is more
modern in the nineties, it's there. The god is just
the panther God. It's not technically Bast anymore. Yeah, just
to get real, I'm actually about it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
Even in the movie they call it Bass. That's interesting, Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:26:23):
I disagree with that on the rub revolves away. So
so now that we know your biases, that's that's my bias.
I'm shuri, okay, So we should keep that in mind,
I think so, And I'm going to try to do
my best to illustrate as I talk about these different
plot points why I feel this way, Because I do
think that she's a very worthwhile, fascinating and potentially integral character.

(01:26:43):
I just don't think the comics have pulled it off
the way the movie pulled it off.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Interesting, okay, So, which is what happens with adaptation.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
It happened, and that's one of the strengths of adaptation
is you get to take a gem of a character
like this and really make her shine. So interestingly enough,
in the publication history World, Surrey wasn't even the first
princess of a Conda that was ever introduced. So in
the Marvel manga verse, which was being published around the
same time, because Shuri was introduced in two thousand and five,
the manga verse only existed from two thousand and five

(01:27:10):
to two thousand and six. It was this movement to
bring younger readers in who liked manga and who liked animes.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
I don't like manga is awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Yes, readers were introduced to T'Challa's younger sister to Shauna
because why not same name, right. Sure, she's not as
cool as Shuri though, and eventually turns her back on
Wakanda to become the successor to doctor Doom.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
So screw her. She's evil.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
She does have a strong career trajectory.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
I think there you go to be very I didn't
read this, did I just read about it. Sure it
sounds terrible, but if someone who's read it, I'd love
to I'd love for you to pop into our Facebook
or on Twitter and let us.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Know what you felt. I'm intrigued by this. I'm intrigued
by this Doctor Doom apprentice. But Tashauna has never appeared
anywhere else. She's not been brought over to any other media.
It's all Shuri all the time, kind of once she
goes away. Shuri is to Chaka's youngest child and his
only daughter. From her youth, she always wanted to be
black Panther and was trained accordingly. In all comic incarnations,

(01:28:14):
Shuri receives the same training as her older half brother
to Chala, and I think that's really important because that
is something that the movie doesn't do. She's in no
way being prepared to potentially be a black Panther. Sure,
but in the comics like she could be because she's
of royal blood. The siblings don't have the exact same powers, however,
because remember in the Tencent Origin when I mentioned something

(01:28:36):
called stone skin and your rain was like, what is
that like the gray skin in Game of Throwac. That's
exactly what I thought.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
So just to jump ahead a little bit later on,
Shuri gets trained in da Jalia.

Speaker 1 (01:28:46):
Do you know what that is?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Okay? D Jalia is a transcendent plane that represents all
of Wakanda's collective memories. That's where you go before you die.
You either go to heaven or health from there, Suri,
while she was there, trained with a grayat spirit, which
is like a spirit that had taken the form of
her mother Ramanda while she was in limbo waiting to die,
and through training there, she was imbued with unique superhuman
powers that included transforming her body into a flexible stone skin,

(01:29:11):
which cannot be breached by normal gunfire or direct energy weapons.
She also gained anamorphism during this time, which allows her
to transform herself and anyone she's in physical contact with
into either a single blackbird or a flock of blackbirds.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
Why not a black panther because she wasn't black.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Panther at this time? To Challa was back to being black.
It's a weird. It is weird, but I did want
to point out that even though she is a princess
of Acanda and she has the same training as to Challa,
they do go out of their way to diverge their powers,
sometimes through weird ways. But she is different than to Challa,
So just to think of her as like to Challa
light female is not wholly correct incorrect, but it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
It's kind of a similar thing that they did with
Miles Morales in Peter Parker. Yeah, and she Hulk and Hulk.

Speaker 2 (01:29:57):
So she wants to be Black Panther so bad, right
that as a teenage girl, she challenges her uncle Cyam
for the mantle because he was Black Panther at the time. Yeah,
because he took over after t Chaka's death, which she
might remember from Jason's Black Panther Lesson. However, she's like,
I'm gonna challenge you, uncle, and he's like surprised that
Challa already defeated me and claimed the mantle for himself.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
So she's like, oh fuck, so she missed it like
by five minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
Yeah, find like a week or something like that. So
while the movie does state that Shury is sixteen years old,
the comics never give her an approximate age, except younger
than to Challa, she seems way older than that, right, although,
as I can say, having just read her first solo
series and do more in prep for this lesson, she's
a lot older, like she's like thirty or like late

(01:30:41):
twenties at the youngest.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Well, we've we've talked about this before off the podcast.
I in my head to Challa's like forty, Well, Chadwick
Boseman's forty one commic time at the recording of his
podcast comic book Black Panther is like forty, yeah, And
if he's and I always got the impression that he
is significantly older, then sure, yes, like ten, there's a decade.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Yeah, yeah, And since they don't share the same mother
per the comics continuity, I think that makes sense that
there would be a significant h gap.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
But to me, I have always seen Black Panther as
a contemporary of Read and seems introduced.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
And my perfect read also in a Storm who's always
been a sort of one of the older X men.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
Yeah, and my perfect read is somewhere late forties, early fifties.
I would park read at fifty one, so old Jason,
So I don't know, I've always seen reads like he's
the oldest scientist? Is it because of the hair a
little bit? But also because he's the first Yeah, that's fair.
He's the first hero of the Marvel universe. Cool, it's
read Richard's cool. Well, I'm not here to argue with you.

(01:31:44):
Read Richard's scale. Well, sorry, Bike Panther is is connected
to Fantasy fo Us. Jason's mind is just going to
go to Vantas. Anywhere we can turn that ship, I'm
going to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
So not that long after she first challenged her uncle,
what Conda comes under attack by you guessed it, Klaw,
who we now all know from the Black Panther movie.
He's like evil Andy Serks Claw. Yes, but the Claw
in the comic is quite different. He is quite different.
But this is an important moment for Shury because just
back to Claw for a second. Basically, for the sake

(01:32:14):
of this lesson, Claw is an evil guy who wants
to seal vibranium that's really really with.

Speaker 1 (01:32:17):
A sonic weapon gun.

Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
Yes, und that's all you need to know for the
Sacred Lesson. So this happens, and this is the first
time Shuri uses the Ebony Blade. Now the Ebony Blade
is a famous sword in the Marvel Conics Comics universe
that was originally ascribed to the Black Knight. If you
never heard of Black Knight, don't worry. He went away
after the Silver Rage. No he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:32:36):
He's still around, but his.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
Main title did, and he's been like a very minor
character ever since then.

Speaker 1 (01:32:41):
I mean, I like the Black Man a lot. He's
kind of a D last D List Avengers.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
Yes, but it has since become a signature weapon of Shurry,
which is cool. I think they probably only picked it
for her because it's called the Ebony Blade, but swords
are great, so I don't care using the Ebony Blade.
During this battle, Shury killed the radio Active Man. Jason,
do you know who the Radioactive Man is? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:33:04):
This is problematic because I think I know who the
Radioactive Man is in d C comment, this is also
a retcon. This is a new radioactivity. I all think
I know the Marvel Comics Radioactive Man.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
No, he's really not that interesting. His name is Igor
Stanchek and he's a Russian mutant and mercenary.

Speaker 1 (01:33:22):
I do know him.

Speaker 2 (01:33:24):
I know him, No idea who this guy was.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
He's not that interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
Spoilers sure, he kills him, and she's really broken up
about killing someone for the first time and feeling like
she didn't have adequate skills to defend herself without killing
despite the fact that she'd undergone all this training leading
up to this point. So T'Challa, because he's a really
good big brother, then promises to train her in more
hand to hand combat, with the promise to equip her

(01:33:49):
with the skills she will need in case she ever
has to replace him as a leader of Wakanda. It's
a good thing that he had this in mind in
case you hadn't figured that out. So for those who
are maybe a little more familiar with the Black Panther
timeline from your own reading or from our previous lesson,
this is around the same time that to'chala and Storm
got married and Aurora Monroe became the first foreign queen

(01:34:11):
of Wakanda and Shurry's sister in law.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
Yeah, this is in terms of Marvel Comics timeline. It's
post Civil war, but pre Avengers versus sex men.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
Oh, yes, we're gonna get We're not going to talk
about Civil war, but we are going to talk about
Avengers versus sex men. But not for quite a while.
I just wanted to bring that up because is it.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
Pre Civil War? I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Civil war is.

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
Actually not in my timeline. Okay, it's it's it's like two.

Speaker 2 (01:34:35):
Thousand and five, two thousand, so I don't know if
it would have started. Civil is like two thousand and seven. Yeah,
but just so you know, because Aurora's gonna show up
a lot, so like strap in.

Speaker 1 (01:34:46):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
So they get married and then what do they do?
Well to Chala and Aurro run away with the Fantastic
Four to go do some adventures. This is okay, So
this is post Civil War? Okay, great, there you go.
I don't know, I don't reafandostay.

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
Here we go.

Speaker 1 (01:34:58):
I'm going to steer the ship. Dwayne McDuffie, oh blessed,
great milestone creator, amazing writer. If you haven't read his
runs on Static Shock Icon, please go do it. He
was the writer of Fantastic Four and posts Civil War.
Read and Sue because they picked different sides. Read picked
Kenny Yes Yes pro Registration and Sue picked cap Anti Registration.

(01:35:22):
Read and Sue took a leave of absence from the
Fantastic Four and to replace them Black Panther to Chala
and his bride Aroro joined the Fantastic Four, and fun fact,
they made the Baxter Building the Fantastic Four's headquarters the
Wakandan Embassy for the United States. Oh that's cool, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
So then all new, all different, all diverse Fantastic Four
are off living their best lives. And Eric Killmonger you
remember him, he's the problematic cute guy from the movie,
leads a battalion of American battleships on Waconda. So this
put Shurrey into a leadership position that she's completely not
ready for. And so she takes all of her closest

(01:36:01):
advisors and they decide they're going to sneak onto all
these ships in the middle of the night with the
goal of incapacitating them and sort of taking them off
before any bloody conflict ensues.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
Got it, however?

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
Would Shuri's captured and incarcerated on one of Killmonger's ships
by Killmonger uh no, by a bunch of his thugs.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:36:20):
Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Instead of begging for her life, though, she challenges kill
Monger to a fight, so she totally goes trial by
combat game of thrones, Like, let's just do this between
you and me, and no one else has to get hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:36:30):
But from everything you've told me about Shury so far,
that makes sense for her character, that she's so headstrong
and she feels she has to prove herself that she
would do this.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
I actually think it's kind of bad ass, and I
really appreciate it that she's like willing to take it
on herself so that no one else has to get hurt.
Kill Monger's like, you're a tiny little girl. I don't
want to waste my time on you. So he sends
a whole group of his men to do his dirty
work for him and kill her. But because she's awesome,
Shurry kicks all of their butts, which allows Zuri, you know,
that old guy, except he's not old, he's young and

(01:37:00):
in the comics, the opportunity to free her from her incarceration.
Zrei's the character who's played by Forcewitter in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
That's why I wanted to make sure you explained that
for her.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
It's really funny too. There's a lot of characters who
are elder in the movies who are like young and
buff in the.

Speaker 1 (01:37:15):
Comy Marvel Studio, don't just take the name yes, and
and sort of the intention of the character and mold
exactly because Martin Freeman is not exactly evert Ross. Oh no,
And we're going to talk about that because Ross is
a goof in the comicy and he's ugly, whereas in
the movies Martin Freeman's Everitt Ross is more like kind
of like kind of like a Felix Lighter from the

(01:37:36):
James Bond very very classic. That's a good call. Well,
they're both.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
That's a great analogy there, Jason. So then a secret
invasion happens, you know that thing, Jason. For the listeners
playing along at home, what a secret invasion?

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
There are scrolls everywhere, even in the Avengers. Wow, thank you, Ricky.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
Yeah, that was great, Thank you, Miss Serves. I'll address
the rest of my questions to himse do he's actually here? Okay? Yes?
Two thousand and eight Written by Brian Michael Bendis, art
by Lenfrancioux. The story involves a subversive, long term invasion
of Earth by the scrolls, a group of Alion shapeshifters Bubble,
it is great. A bunch of people who you thought

(01:38:18):
were dead were secretly scrolled so that we could bring
them back. Because we missed. Hawkeye, t'chala, and Aroro come
back from their escavades with a fantastic four just in
time for Scrolls to invade Wakanda during Secret Invasion. Because
it's a big deal that Wakanda was never colonized and
never successfully invaded.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
This is the first, the.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
First invasion of Wakanda, and so, as you might have guessed,
a lot of foes of these characters are trying to
evade with coland sure and usually disteal their vibranium as
part of their efforts to call the insurgency. Shurrey teams
up with her uncle Cyane remember him yes, to lead
the Wacandan army against the invading Aliens. Secret Invasion ends,
and this leads directly into what is often referred to

(01:38:58):
as Shuri's Black Panther solo series, even though she's treated
as pretty incapable as far as being a superhero goes,
and she doesn't even get to be Black Panther for
the first four out of twelve issues. But if you
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Speaker 2 (01:40:19):
Yes, so the Shury Black Panther series ironically opens with
T'chala and he is taking a meeting with Naymore, who
is a super dick. As you will remember from a
number of our episodes and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:31):
If you remember specifically from our giek hisstory lesson on Ta'chala.
Nay More and T'chala have a rivalry. We're going to
talk about that, and they don't like each other.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
So Naymore is continuing his super dick legacy and he
wants to recruit to 'chala into the Cabal. Yes, the
Cabal is Doctor Doom's team of super villains that he
formed right after Dark Rain. T'chala doesn't want to be
associated with Norman Osborne, who's also kind of floating around
the Cabal at this time. He's running it there you go,
so he rejects the offer, even though Naymor is like, hey,

(01:41:04):
you really should take this offer, like for your physical safety,
you should join the Cabal, and a child's like, I
got it. So he winds up brutally beaten and put
into a coma by several members of the Kobal who
don't take too kindly to being rejected, specifically doctor Dum
specifically doctor Doom, who literally shoots him in the face
because he wasn't popular in high school. After he crashed,

(01:41:25):
lands back in Wakanda with two dead dorm lage, which
I think is a horrible loss. The royal family immediately
decides that a new Black Panther needs to be appointed
and anointed by the Panther God lest the country be
left unprotected. So the members of the Ruling Council, which
is mostly made up of Wakabi and Zuri. Just to
cycle back, that's Daniel Coluia's character and Force Whittaker's character,

(01:41:49):
but young, buff and with more hair than in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:41:53):
These comics kids because it is in its way before them.

Speaker 2 (01:41:56):
So the members of the Ruling Council, they want Aurro
to be the Black Panther since she's already familiar with
being a superhero the Queen. She is the Queen, but
Ororo turns down the mantle because she herself is not Wakandan.
She thinks it's really important that a Wakandan be the
Black Panther, so she nominates Shuri instead, which.

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
Is really great.

Speaker 2 (01:42:13):
Can we talk about that for justice? Sc absolutely, I.

Speaker 1 (01:42:16):
Actually think you now, I did not know this all.
I forgot that. So, by the way, I think that's
a bold move by Ororo, and.

Speaker 2 (01:42:25):
I think I'm honestly shocked that the Marvel editors were
just like make a Storm.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Yeah, well, they obviously wanted to make the new Black
Panther Surrey. Yeah, that was a production breathing, But Aroro
turning that down character wise, writing wise is such an
interesting move for her because it does really shine her
in a perfect light that she really has taken the
lessons of Charles Xavier to heart, yes, and that she

(01:42:50):
understands that she would never want a human to lead
the X Men, so why would she a non Wakandan
lead Waconda.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
She's also the first royal, a member of the royal
family of Wakana to not be from Wakanda, so like
she should understand just from that experience, forget about being
a mun It's actually one of Storms I think best moments.
It's really it's one of the best moments of this
solo series and it doesn't even involve dreaming like Panther.
So since Shuri had the same training as to Challa

(01:43:19):
growing up, she's the most obvious candidate and Auroro is
like the only person who recognizes this. In fact, Ramonda
is like, I don't know, I really think it should
be Stormed. Ramona is a terrible mother to Shuri.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Yeah, she.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
This is the first there's this whole scene where they're
talking in this council room. This is the first of
like four scenes where she's like, you're just not good enough.
Let me ask you this.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
Is there any impression that the reason that there may
be leaning towards Storm is because she's a very powerful mutant.

Speaker 2 (01:43:47):
Storm is a very powerful They want it to be
Storm because they say that she's already been a superhero
and she's been a team leader. So and they do
say that she's led the X Men, so she kind
of already understands what some of the demands of this
position would be. I'm just there's another reality where they
did it, and I'm so glad that I don't live
in that reality.

Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
I will say that there is, Yeah, there is a
reality worse Storm with Black Panther, But there is also
another reality that leading the X Men is not like
leading a country, and you shouldn't equate the things together.
You know, that's just you know, not in reference to anything.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
Right, Right, So you know to prove herself. Surey is
forced to undergo several physical trials to prove that she's worthy,
including climbing a mountain. This is where my feelings about
this book started to fall.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Apart when she climbs a mountain.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
She's climbing a mountain wearing a skin tight purple suit,
and it's all shots basically up her butt, of her
climbing and climbing and climbing and being I'm so good,
I'm so tough. I've climbed a mountain before. Oh those
really what the caption say? Pretty much?

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:44:48):
And then she kind of like misses her grip and
falls and she's like, I shouldn't be so sassy, but
I've climbed mountains before. Then she comes upon a clearing
with a bunch of actual sleeping black panthers and has
to sneak through them, and she's kind of hunched over
and her massive boobs that are disproportionately large to her
body swings so low and her nipples are so clear

(01:45:10):
as she fights these black panthers that, of course, wake up.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Do you remember who the artist of this series is?

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
I've literally deleted it from my brain and I don't
know if I necessarily want to speak ill of them
in their work. I don't know what the editorial mandates
were on this, but to me, the art in this
as well is so cheesecaky that I'm like, have you
ever actually seen a naked woman? Like? I have a
big I have a problem with how people draw women sometimes,
especially male artists, because like, you just don't physically work

(01:45:36):
like that. So she sneaks past all these sleeping a school.
I don't know if you right now, Well we done it.
She sinks past all these black panthers. They wake up.
She hits a couple of them in the face, her
boobs swing around the animals, not otherwise they're actual sleeping
black panther animals just clear and she gets up to
the heart shaped herb bush and picks one for herself.

(01:45:57):
After that, she consumes the heart shape herb and faces
the panther God kind of like we saw in the movie.
She gets to talk to the panther god, and the
panther God has to decide whether or not she's worthy
of being black panther Suri and tells him that she
has all this training she's been preparing her entire life.
She's so excited to do this, She's thrilled, this is
her destiny. What does the panther God say? However, what

(01:46:21):
does the panther God say? That Panther God rejects shery
based on her arrogance that he says she displays to him,
which really, when I was reading it came across more
as like enthusiasm and confidence, and blamed her lifelong jealousy
of her brother for the reason why she doesn't deserve
to believe Black Panther and that she is not worthy
of living up to anyone else who has ever taken

(01:46:43):
up the panther mantle, and he sends her away from
the spiritual plane. The artist of this series, by the way,
was Ken Lashley. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, we say that,
and I'm like, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:46:52):
Why I don't recognize this name.

Speaker 2 (01:46:54):
I don't either, but I think this scene is horrible.
I think to take a mantle that is so traditionally male,
we'll give it to a female, have them have to
go through physical trials, which she does. She does quite capably.
She does speedily, It's like a three page montage, and
then have them face with a god that since is
referred to as a god and not goddess. You have
to assume as male or we're projecting as male. And

(01:47:17):
to have her come to them having done everything she's
supposed to with all this training, and to be excited
about it, and then for them to slap her down,
what is I think horrible?

Speaker 1 (01:47:26):
Actually?

Speaker 4 (01:47:27):
Can I? Can?

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
I propose the Devil's advocation?

Speaker 2 (01:47:29):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (01:47:30):
Now, I don't know where the rest of the series goes.
You have seen the Matrix? Yes, do you remember the
moment in the Matrix where Neo meets the Oracle? Okay, yeah,
let me let me finish this so the listeners understand
what I'm referring to as well. Neo meets the Oracle
for the very first time, and he's supposed to be
the Chosen One, right, and the Oracle says, you're not

(01:47:51):
the chosen one. And she tells him that so that
he can actually become the chosen it's his kick in
the butt. Now, is this Shuri's kicking the butt? Because
I know she does actually become Black.

Speaker 2 (01:48:03):
Pains literarily like in the terms of like this is
the structure of a hero's journey?

Speaker 1 (01:48:08):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
My problem with it is the fact that the entire
the previous scene of this, the entire ruling council of
Wakanda didn't think she was good enough. It took an
outsider who really doesn't know her to say that maybe
it should be her, to which her mother's like, you're
really not good So.

Speaker 1 (01:48:23):
Your objection is because it's she's conm.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
Then after this, there's another scene where she like admits
to everyone that this happened to her and she doesn't
think she can do it, and Ramonda's like, yeah, you're right, Okay,
so three like kicking the guts in a row that
I just don't think this character deserves. Like she's she's
only existed for like fifteen issues at this point. What
has she done that is so wrong?

Speaker 1 (01:48:45):
Yeah? So yeah, you're your idea is that And I
totally understand your objection is that every other encounter person
she finds says no, yes, and and it would probably
be better served if everybody was like yes, yes, yes, And
then she stumbled and then only the panther guards says yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
But to me, like that's like the ultimate just like
then why did you make her? Why did you create
this storyline if everyone's just gonna take a dump on it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:09):
So then let's keep going because I know she becomes
black panther. She does so.

Speaker 2 (01:49:13):
All the while, the villain Morland has been raised from
the dead by a group of weird shamans that and
then literally walks across Africa towards Wakanda with the intention
of consuming to Chala. Now, in case you don't know
if you're playing along at home, Moreland eats Slash destroys
totems and he can see that o'challa's weak and if
he wants to eat his panther totem.

Speaker 1 (01:49:32):
He's a Spider Man villain. He's terrible clothes and doesn't
say anything. He's a vampire. He's basically just a vampire.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
But a less interesting vampire. Like he's an energy man.
He's great in Spider Verse. He's terrible of this. He
doesn't say anything. He just walks across Africa to eat
to Challa.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
And why do they make it Morland, that's so dupe?

Speaker 2 (01:49:49):
I think, I don't know because he's an evil, glowing
white guy like I don't know. Meanwhile, to Challa still comatose,
so Surrey by default becomes the Wakandan head of state,
although she's still just a princess. They don't crown or
the queen, which she should, like she should circumvent Aurro
as royal blood technically, and Aura should become Queen regent.
But they just leave for a princess because they know

(01:50:11):
they're going to bring to Chala back in about twenty issues.
So she goes on a tour of nations, right like
you do when you become a new head of state.
She literally has a meeting with at the time, President
Barack Obama, even though he's never named. And that's the
thing in comics, you can use anyone's likeness. It's not
technically them unless you say their name, and they just
call him the president.

Speaker 1 (01:50:28):
Well, we saw him get inaugurated in The Amazing Spider Man.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
It's it's true, it's true, but they just call him
mister president. They never call him, but it's it's Barack Obama,
which is kind.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
Of a Lots of comics did that.

Speaker 2 (01:50:38):
It's kind of amazing, And I really actually love this
scene a lot. And they're like holding the hands on.
He's like, it's so nice to meet you, and like
it's really cute.

Speaker 1 (01:50:44):
I can't sure, ye, I just want to say, I
really like what you're doing in man Conna, and then
they take like a shaking again picture.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
It's lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:50:53):
It's all good.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
Also, excuse me, that was very good. While she's in
the United States, she meets agent Everett Ross, just like
she meets him in the movie. But this version is
like a lot less inherently likable than Martin Freeman. Like
he's kind of doe and has a bad haircut and
bad glasses and just gets her way for a couple
of pages.

Speaker 1 (01:51:10):
I know I didn't explain this in the T'Challa lesson,
but did I ever? Do you know the reason why
Christopher Priest, the guy who wrote the Marvel Knights Black
Panther series, introduced the character of Everett Ross. No, he
introduced the character of Everitt Ross, and he said in
many interviews that he saw Everett Ross as a sort

(01:51:33):
of Chandler bing slash fair culture Ferris Bueler type, and
he's goofy, he's got white guy, and he used Everett
Ross as the lens that we saw all the kind
of goofy Wacandon stuff through. Because Christopher Price has completely
admitted this, he thought a lot of Black Panther lore

(01:51:54):
was stupid, and so he felt that if he had
Everett Ross explain it or say it, it would sort
of make it more palatable. I actually don't think he's wrong.
I kind of agree with him too, but that's the
reason why. Ever, Ross is kind of this goofy idiot. Yeah,
but he really only shows up for a few pages.
Surreys spending so much time away from what Coanda brings
her criticism. So again she's getting nagged on a national scale,

(01:52:17):
and almost every issue cuts to a couple pages of
the same two political pundits who basically just talks smack
about her without inviting her or anybody else on their
It's like pages and pages of this talk. She's like
a talking TV heads kind of Frank Miller as he returns.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
But like not as well executed, and they basically tell
the reader how bad the Wakandan economy has become and
how it gets worse every issue.

Speaker 1 (01:52:38):
They're exhausting and they talk so much. Despite what the.

Speaker 2 (01:52:42):
Panther God told Shry about being unworthy, she basically just
suits up anyway, and it becomes the self appointed black
Panther without really any of the powers.

Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
She hasn't taken. The heart shaped herth she has.

Speaker 2 (01:52:54):
But she hasn't been blessed by the panther god, so
she has no like I guess it's like latently in
her blood, sure, But so she's just like working on
her own training and it's basically the only thing that
she can think of doing to protect her family in
her country. So like that's kind of that's kind of
good for her, good for sure. Eventually, the panther god
sees her heroism as a humbling act and an act

(01:53:16):
of self sacrifice, and so she is eventually, in like
the eighth of twelve issues, granted the classic black panther
powers that she always coveted.

Speaker 1 (01:53:26):
Come on, bass, what's up with this?

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Why you such a dits? Because they made you a
because they made you a guy because Bess is a
lady in Nacient Egypt. In mythology, things become a little
more tricky when T'Challa is resurrected by Aurora, because they
basically trick the god of death, only to find himself
powerless and incapable of recovering as quickly as he wants to.
So basically they only give Sury powers to take them
away from t Challa and make him.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
It was pretty certain he was just in a coma.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
He's in a coma, but he's in limbo death for
a couple issues.

Speaker 1 (01:53:56):
I didn't want to talk too much about it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:57):
T'Challa in this lesson, but Death is trying to trick
him into going to hell, and so Aurora shows up
for like two issues and does this voodoo stuff and
like brings it back. But so they basically give Shuri
powers just in time to take them away from to
Challa while he's trying to learn how to walk so
we can like fall and sweat a lot. Following false
intel about who was behind the attack onto Chala at
the beginning of the series, Shuri tracks down and fights

(01:54:19):
Naymore with robotic armor this like armor updated black panther
suit that actually looks a lot like Batwing but before
Batwing was a thing. Shuri is able to hold her
own for quite a while, and even uses some cool
tech called desert Wind that SAPs all the water out
of Anymore's body and renders his powers temporarily gone, which
is like really cool. But then he jumps back into
the sea and kicks her butt. They wind up making

(01:54:40):
peace and working together with t Challa to discover that
Doctor Doom, that guy had infected a number of wakanins
with nanites, and that these people who were calling themselves
the Dystary were planning a revolution and a political coup
to claim Wakanda for themselves. This leads, like the last
three issues of her solo series, lead directly into Jason

(01:55:01):
what is.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
Doomore Doom Moore as well Doom. Doctor Doom decides that
he wants the vibranium of Wakanda. Yes, that's he's wanted
since very early and the issues of Fantastic four years
Great series by San Lee and Jack Kirby. And he's
come back and he started a war. Yeah, and it's

(01:55:22):
called Doom because he's named Doom.

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:55:24):
Twenty ten written by Jonathan Maberry. I actually like her.

Speaker 2 (01:55:28):
I like Doomore, who took over from Reginald Hudland writing
the Black Panther series. Art by Scott Eaton. Doctor Doom
becomes the first person to ever overthrow or colonize Wakanda,
forcing Schury into Challa, who now has his powers backs.
They both have powers to work together as the only
two Wakandans who are not under Doom's control. Fun fact,
they're able to avoid infection because of their heightened senses

(01:55:49):
of immune systems, so like, that's kind of cool. In
order to rest back control of Wakanda, they team up
with Colossus, Nightcrawler and Wolverine. Thanks Storm for the X
Men connection. Well they are successful. Doom does make a
clean getaway with a huge chunk of vibranium, so I
think you can tell what sure he's going to run
around the world doing next. In response, she returns to

(01:56:10):
her globe trotting ways, but this time she's hunting down
Doom and the still in vibranium. However, Doom can control
latent magical properties that are inherent in vibranium and is
then able to take control of all the vibranium on
the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:56:23):
Because why not, Well, because as one knows if you've
read the Venus four is doctor Doom has been the
runner up several times to the title of sorcerer, so supreme. Yes,
he is a magician and there is he's a very
powerful sorcerer. So it's some things that modern writers sometimes

(01:56:47):
for It's been something that's been introduced more and more
and more. So I totally give this to him because
I like that Doom is an evil sorcerer.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
I just think it's crazy that they're like they were
in the Jonathan Maber was in the room pitching the
and he's like, and then Doom takes over all the world,
and you're like.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
What without without the torpedo in your lesson? Like what
I think T'chala does at the end of the storyline,
I think is even more sillier. Yeah, but Doom started it.

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
sureI and T'chala of course defeat him, but in the
process they render all processed vibranium in the world useless.
And then this, combined with the recent upheaval in leadership,
basically the what Kandan economy falls into ruins and the
country kind of implodes. This leads directly into a Black
Panther storyline called Clause of the Panther, but it's claws

(01:57:35):
with Okay, because I got you, Lyssies guy we've been
talking about in this story. Sure, he travels to the
Savage Land with the intention of meeting Kazar or Kazar
however you want to say it, I don't care, and
extract a natural stock of vibranium from the Savage Land.
Surprised what Kanda isn't actually the only place with vibranium.

Speaker 1 (01:57:56):
I don't know. There's there's some in South America. There's
someone Indiana. Yeah, it's not just Wakan.

Speaker 2 (01:58:01):
No, but Wakanda has the cosmic vibranium, which is the
most and Wakanda has the most. Yes, it does. It
has like up Mountain vibranium. This storyline gets wreck coondaway
pretty quickly. I think it's ridiculous that it was ever done. Also,
I hate the Savage Land, so I can't. I hate
the Savage Land. It's stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:58:18):
I love Kazar. If there are Kazar fans out there,
please request the Kazaar. You kiss your lesson, it will
ever gonna do it. It'll be seven minutes long.

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
It will mostly be us playing with that Kazar statue
that we inexplicably have, and.

Speaker 1 (01:58:32):
I'll be doing this tiger's name Toothy. No, it's it's
a baku be. I don't know, but Boosto it'll be.
It'll be the shortest kisser lesson we cats, but it'll
be the best seven minutes of your life, seven minutes
in heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:58:51):
Just do it as animal calls like wild cat. There's
lots of growling, so as the title suggests, well, in
the Savage Land, sure, he's attacked by Claw.

Speaker 1 (01:59:01):
I want to figure out that name of that cat,
who again, whose whole deal is to revolve around trying
to steal vibranium from himself. Claw doesn't really hold his
own and Surrey kicks his butt.

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
But then, sadly, the vibranium in the Savage Land is
rendered inert because the volcano erupts and the sound wave
ruins it. Just go with it. The whole storyline didn't matter.
Sury then travels to both Madrapoor and New York. Jason,
do you know what Madrapour is?

Speaker 1 (01:59:27):
It's just an Asian nation that usually has a lot
to do with X Men story.

Speaker 2 (01:59:31):
It's a fake marble island off the coast of South.

Speaker 1 (01:59:34):
It's it's kind of like fake Japan.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
Yeah, very much. She arrives in both locations to hunt
down vibranium stockpiles, only to discover that Claw had employed
aim to excavate the sites by the time that she arrived.

Speaker 1 (01:59:46):
Boo zab, we were wrong. Whatever this is close U.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
Claw has also been building a robot named Music, but
it's m dot U dot S dot I dot Marvel
stop it with the acronyms. So he's built music from
vibranium that he's stockpiling with the intention of enslaving the
world teat with it.

Speaker 4 (02:00:11):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (02:00:11):
He then calls in some of her super friends Wolverine,
spider Man, and Black Widow, and together they are able
to take down Claw and Music.

Speaker 1 (02:00:18):
Then that asshole name or shows up again.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
He attacks Wakanda during a Venders versus x men which
Jason mentioned before. Jason, what is AVX AVX? Oh, I'm sorry,
mister Gervais.

Speaker 1 (02:00:32):
What is as AVX is basically where Captain America becomes
a big dick and decides to attack Sydeclops for no reason. Yes,
so we can have a twelve part.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
Series because of the scenex force. Yeah, twenty twelve written
and drawn by a whole bunch of people, which is
why it's a mess YEP.

Speaker 1 (02:00:48):
It is not even written by whole bunch of people.

Speaker 2 (02:00:50):
Too, written and drawn by by a whole bunch of people,
because it's part of like eighteen titles, which is why
it's stare well was.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
It crossed everything? It's across every title. It's twelve parts long.

Speaker 2 (02:00:59):
There's started working in a comic book store. When this
was coming out, it was such a colossal.

Speaker 1 (02:01:03):
Well, it was also quite delayed as well, if you
remember it. Yeah, seriously delayed. I have fears, bad thoughts
about it. There are good moments.

Speaker 2 (02:01:11):
Sure, as there are in I talk smack about this
the Shuri Soliciers.

Speaker 1 (02:01:17):
There's always good moments, even in a mess like the
moment you're going to talk about. It's a good moment
in that series.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
So as the sovereign leader of Wakanda, Shuri declares war
on Atlantis, good for her in spite of d'achalla's misgivings.
Because you mentioned that d'shalla and Naymore have a rivalry,
they do, but they also are kind of bros and
they have an understanding. I wouldn't quite call it a friendship,
but there are two characters that kind of revolve around

(02:01:45):
each other and they talk to each other a lot
as like, you're a king of a weird nation that
no one has ever heard of. I respect you, but
I'm going to fight you now. Hey, you're a king
of a nation that no one's ever heard of.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Join my team. No, well, I'm not going to kill you,
but someone else To compare their relationship to the relationship
that American presidents have had with presidents of Russia, because
if you remember the nineties, Bill Clinton was good pals
I'm not American with Boris Yeltsen, who was the former
Russian president. They were pretty good and Russia was a

(02:02:17):
good ally. But George Bush was not a good pal
with Vladimir Putin, and so now we sort of have
an antagonist relationship with Russia. I would say that nay
More and Black Panther, Wakanda and Atlantis are kind of
the same thing. Some periods they're friends, some periods they
want to throw missiles at each other.

Speaker 2 (02:02:35):
That's true. If you're a listener from Russia, let us
know about what Wakanda.

Speaker 1 (02:02:40):
No, just let us know. I wonder if we have
anyone who listens in Russia. If Boris Yelton is out there,
please please podcast. We'll do the gegest your lesson on Russia.
I'd love to meet him.

Speaker 2 (02:02:48):
Great so because to Challa kind of very publicly underminds her.
Sure he banishes him from the Golden City and is like,
go away. The Wakandans then raised, I wrote, Wakanda, but
actually Atlantis they raise lands to the ocean floor. And
in Revenge, Naymore tells Thanos that his son, Thanos's son
is hiding out in Wakanda and that they should be
appropriately attacked for harboring.

Speaker 1 (02:03:09):
Him, and that comes up actually in Infinity.

Speaker 2 (02:03:12):
Right, But okay, we'll get to Infinity, all right, Jason,
what's Infinity?

Speaker 1 (02:03:19):
In Infinity is Jonathan Hickman's giant cosmic Key cosmic Key
Avengers event that eventually leads into Secret Wars where Thanos
comes to Earth to cause a ruckus. Yeah yeah, basic, yep.
But basically he's looking for his son Thane.

Speaker 2 (02:03:34):
Yeah. So T'Challa eventually gets reinstated as the King of
Waconda and the sovereign Monarch because Marvel Comics was told
by Marvel Studios that they were developing a movie with
this character and they couldn't stand to have this kind
of disparation between brands. I don't wholly condone this move
in the comics because sure, he often gets relegated to
a background character in this continuity unless she's the Black

(02:03:55):
Panther or the Queen, she doesn't get a lot of definition.
I'm outside of it. But during Slash by the end
of Infinity, sure he is seen to be the head
of the Condon School for Alternative Studies, which is kind
of cool and I'm convinced is the single solitary reason
for her tech genius persona in the movie. I'm convinced
that someone saw that and was like, that's cool, let's

(02:04:16):
make her this now because this is comics. Sure he
dies during time runs out. I knew this was going
to happen leading up to Secret Wars, like Jason just
talked about, when the Cabal attacks Waconda once again, so
she kind of like came in with the Cabal and
goes out with the Cabal. She sacrifices herself so that
de'challa can escape attack. Fun fact, sure he can be

(02:04:37):
seen kind of the next time she pops up when
we go to the Spirit plane and she's resting among
her fellow Black Panthers, which I actually really love. I
think it's so great that she is celebrated in this way,
even though as like the reject black.

Speaker 1 (02:04:50):
Pant That is part of the ability that when T'Challa
wasn't Black Panther and sure he was in charge, he
was the King of the Dead. Jonathan Kickman made him
the King of the Dead. The King of Nicropola, and
this allowed him the ability to be able to talk
to any Wakandan that died. And so now that he's
Black Panther and the King of acro the King of Aganda,

(02:05:11):
they let him keep both his powers, like he can
go and talk to Shuri.

Speaker 2 (02:05:17):
So while she's dead, some members of the Dora Malaje
went rogue and refused to do their duty protecting a
king of Waconda and Tu Wakandans named Tetu and Zenzi
also lead an attempted rebellion against T'Challa in the royal family.
So basically, sure he dies and things went to even
more crap. We get her back during All New, all
Different Marvel now in twenty fifteen, T'Challa collects her goes

(02:05:39):
to collect her body and bring it back, and this
was the time when her soul was revealed to have
descended to Djalia like we talked about at the top
of the lesson, where she trained with that ghost and
got these cool new abilities. It was only through partnering
with Manifold that T'Challa was able to bend reality and boom,
Shuri returns from the dead. That snap was crap. Sorry, guys,

(02:06:00):
you've never heard of Manifold. He's a mutant who can
warp reality, and that's pretty much everything you need to
know about travel dimensions. He's pretty cool. I like him,
But he's kind of a minor mutant because he's a
plot to.

Speaker 1 (02:06:11):
But Jonth Hickman like made him an Avenger, so cool.
I like him. He's cool.

Speaker 2 (02:06:16):
I'm not a fan of creating a mutant to do
something convenient and then like making them an avenger for
the sake of your storyline, which happens a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:06:23):
But here's the thing. Manifold actually been around the nineties,
has he? Yes? Well, I never heard of it. Yeah,
he's not a recent character. Oh I thought he was
a Hickman creation. No, I'm pretty certain he's been around
for quite a while. Well, there you go. I'd never
heard of him. This was when Surrey got a collection.

Speaker 2 (02:06:36):
Of new powers that really set her apart from any
of the previous Black Panthers. Like we discussed, and having
returned to life, Surrey set out to round up the
aforementioned rogue dorm Lage and bring them back to T'shalla's
side so that they could protect the Golden City from
the rebellion that we talked about. She was awesomely successful
and reunited all the Dorma Lage the way they were
always intended to be, which I think is a great
like first move. Having just been brought back to life

(02:06:59):
for the introg part that she played in Quilling Tattoo
and Zenzi's Rebellion, Surrey was appointed to Wakandest Council and
worked under and advice to Shala. And this kind of
brings us all the way up to the most recent
I wrote season, but the most recent set of comics.
And so this is where we're going to stop the
lesson on sure, ecause we never want to tread too
much into contemporary spoiler territories, shall we roll into.

Speaker 1 (02:07:24):
Recommended reading recommended reading?

Speaker 2 (02:07:27):
So I'm going to recommend it under stuff that I
Recommended reading is though, well then Jason, let's recommended reading.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
That's your job. Well I didn't have Ricky record that.
I'm sorry. Recommended reading is our section of the podcast
where Ashley, based on the lesson, will suggest three books
that you should read if you're interested in Shury Black Panther.
You can find all of our choices and recommendations at
Geekhistory lesson dot Com. Slash recommendations recommended reading excuse me,

(02:07:53):
I'm sorry, and we have a little widgets there you
can click on it. You can go buy the book
on Amazon, and a little piece of that comes back
to support the mind Universe today.

Speaker 2 (02:08:00):
So I recommended the three books that Shiry has the
biggest role to play in. The first one that I
picked is Black Panther by ORIGINALD. Hudland at the Complete Collection,
Volume one, because this is where she's first introduced. She's
kind of a supporting player here. But if you want
to see her origins and you want to see how
she interacts with her family and her terrible, terrible mother,
this is where you got to pick it up. Then

(02:08:21):
there is Black Panther, Deadliest of the species. This is
the trade that collects all of her time trying to
be Black Panther and everybody kicking her in the back?

Speaker 1 (02:08:32):
Is it her entire series?

Speaker 2 (02:08:33):
It is?

Speaker 1 (02:08:33):
It's only twelve issues. Yeah. Cool.

Speaker 2 (02:08:34):
And then it leads directly into my third recommendations, is
Black Panther do Moore I Love Doing? I think do
More is Her is the best story that she is
a major part of, and she's still kind of the.

Speaker 1 (02:08:45):
Support it is so but it's a good story.

Speaker 3 (02:08:49):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
So you got a double debt. That's that's my favorite one.

Speaker 2 (02:08:51):
So now why don't we roll right into the discussion.

Speaker 1 (02:08:55):
Please, let's have lots of discussions.

Speaker 2 (02:08:58):
So, Jason, I want to ask you, yes, I kind
of stated my opinion on how on the quality of
Shury solo series up to this point in our history,
because there's not one going on right now. What do
you think what should a Shury comic book series look like?
What should it be about? If we're not going to
make her Black Panther.

Speaker 1 (02:09:18):
I'm so glad you asked allry because I have been
thinking this entire podcast that their needs to be a
Shury Black Panther book. Now, of course you're going to
have Tachala in the Black Panther book. It's written by
how do you was the gentleman's name on easy Coats?
Thank you the writer for I know he writes real people.

Speaker 2 (02:09:39):
He writes for the Landaic and he wrote a really
great book called Between the World.

Speaker 1 (02:09:41):
Yes, he is a writer, way better than will ever be.
So he got awards exactly, I wanted to give him
the due respect that he deserves and his due so
Shurrey totally deserves a book. Tachala needs to be in
the Black Panther book. It's like Batman, You're.

Speaker 2 (02:09:57):
Not going to agree.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
Like Tachala is the black Panther in The Black Panther,
there's a Black Panther book. Boh Surrey. Though, with the
success of the movie and the amazing performance by the
actress in the team, Letitia Wright, I think that there
needs to be a Shury book. And I think the
Schury book should be one of two things. It should
either be where she is sort of running the Wakanda

(02:10:24):
Institute for Gifted youngsters, like the like the Wakanda she
she was.

Speaker 2 (02:10:29):
The she was working at the Wakandan Institute for Alternative Science.

Speaker 1 (02:10:33):
It doesn't have to be that. Yeah, you can make
it a brand new school. I'm just saying, for example,
I don't care future school. Okay, you know, I don't
care what it's called. But she's leading that and it's
sort of like her and the younger kids. Or it
is her traveling around the world leading a team of
dorama lage with her super inventions. Give her a black

(02:10:56):
Panther suit, but a black panther suit. That's a mix
between Black Panther an iron Man because she's technological, and
have her be the secret agent of Tachala, howe her
go out there, give her the role that Lapita and
Nyanga had in the movie. Ye make the spy, make
her the international spy. And I have the perfect title

(02:11:18):
for this book. What would you call it?

Speaker 2 (02:11:20):
You call her Shurry the Dark Panther. Oh that's cool.
I like that, yeah, because this is like more covert.
Well it's more covert, and it's also dark as a
synonym for black. And I don't know, there's no other really,
there's no other really related cat to Panther, because you know.

Speaker 1 (02:11:38):
You can't call her black cats spider Man bill Well,
and you also you also you don't want to call
her black Bengal.

Speaker 2 (02:11:44):
Yeah, you know, it doesn't really work.

Speaker 1 (02:11:46):
So like if you just make it dark Panther, yeah,
it kind of fits both things. But like I think
you want to put Shurry Yeah, so that way, girls
like little girls that see the Black Panther movie will
be like, oh, I like Shurry, surey that but that's
what that's what you make it. You make her secret
agent Black Panther, Sury the Dark Panther. That's the title.
I think that title needs to exist. That's the whole

(02:12:07):
reason why I made the pitch right now, because I
don't care if it goes out in the world, because
I want that book to exist totally. Totally.

Speaker 2 (02:12:12):
Yeah, I would either want to do like if it's
gonna be a comic, I think it should be like
Shury in the dorm Lage.

Speaker 1 (02:12:17):
You'd even just call it that for all that I care.

Speaker 2 (02:12:20):
I also think Dark Panther's pretty good because it is great,
but because they cast her younger and they made a
big point of how she's like a teenage genius in
the movie. I think this is a great opportunity for
Marvel to just do like a ya prose book like
Shury Princess of Wakanda.

Speaker 1 (02:12:34):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (02:12:34):
I like that, and I would love.

Speaker 3 (02:12:35):
To see it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:36):
And you see great titles.

Speaker 2 (02:12:36):
Well, you could even run it sort of parallel to
the narrative that they were trying to do that like
she's been raised her whole life looking up to ch'challa,
who's significantly older than her, and all she wants to
do is be Black Panther and no one's gonna let her.
And then she takes she takes this opportunity to like
build the robopanther suit, Like that's what I would do,
Coffy reragg he gets her lesson. But I think that

(02:12:57):
since that's something like the YA space is a place
that comics are kind of pushing into, I think Marvel
has a real opportunity with this character.

Speaker 1 (02:13:04):
You know, it also would be an amazing storyline for
Shury to bring back the future foundation of the Fantastic
Core and the future foundation and you give you make
her a student teacher there. Yes, yeah, I was like
a TA or something. Oh, yes, she's a t A.

Speaker 2 (02:13:20):
Or you do this, Oh my god, in Franklin's in
love with her, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:13:23):
Or you do this she's Franklin and vilarious babysitter slash tutor. Yes,
oh that's cool. Yes, I love that. And also she
so she's their babysitter slash tutor at the same time
that she's mister Fantastics apprenticed the same.

Speaker 2 (02:13:39):
Yes, like maybe she goes like if you did it
as a miniseries, like she goes there for the summer
internship or something like.

Speaker 1 (02:13:45):
That to take her back to work to Challa first appear, Marvel.
I know you're listening. Please so that's that's yeah, Surrey
has a lot of potential and Sury it's interesting. Suri
is one of these spin off characters that you could
really spin off and it won't be derivative, and I
think it will add a lot to the Marvel universe,

(02:14:06):
like that title will be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (02:14:07):
Mm hmm. This elite female secret service protects the kings
and queens of Wakanda, and they also threaten to unpail
people on desks. Your Geek History Lesson on the Dora
Milage is now in session. Hello, and welcome to Geek
History Lesson. I'm Ashy Victoria Robinson, and I'm Jason Vibranium Inman.

Speaker 1 (02:14:28):
Welcome to Geek History Lesson, or the Mine University as
we'd like to call it, because we like to tell
you about one character, one construct, one group of amazing
female warriors, and a little bit less than an hour,
sometimes more than an hour, sometimes less. Sometimes the amount
is just right. And today is a powerful bunch of

(02:14:48):
women that I know, for one hundred percent certainty could
kick my ass the doorage.

Speaker 2 (02:14:56):
Yeah they could have I feel no doubt feel safe
saying they could take down us and.

Speaker 1 (02:15:02):
Everyone listening I don't. I don't need to somewhere.

Speaker 2 (02:15:04):
One of our nice service members is listening, is like,
what I think could give them a fair fight. Look, look,
if your Delta Force maybe ranger. Remember well, Delta Force
is better than a Ranger. I'm not American. Le realized.

Speaker 1 (02:15:18):
If you're a member of Delta Force or maybe your
Navy Seal, perhaps you might stand up as the Dormology.
I think everybody else your bone. You're boned. I don't
care how much crossmit you've done.

Speaker 2 (02:15:30):
Nineties just came out so hard you moon.

Speaker 1 (02:15:34):
Anyways, the Dormology, we're talking about them because of Black
Panther Wakanda Forever is hit in theaters soon. We are
excited to return to the world of Wakanda. We are
excited to hear more about wherever the Black Panther franchise
is going to go. And we should just note really
quickly on top of this. At the time it is recording,
we have not seen Black Panther Waconda Forever, so there

(02:15:55):
will be absolutely no spoilers for that movie, so you're safe.
This is the per podcast. Listen to get a little
bit of dor malage goodness inside your soul and recharge
your vibranium of Some people might say, and you know,
walking into that movie theater. Yeah, did any may suggest
this lesson?

Speaker 2 (02:16:12):
Two people?

Speaker 4 (02:16:13):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (02:16:14):
Really?

Speaker 4 (02:16:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:16:14):
Yeah, yeah. And I didn't even sometimes I go fishing
for a request. I didn't even have to go fishing
for roquests for this.

Speaker 1 (02:16:19):
Everybody, you can request future lessons or future Geekischer lessons
at GHL podcast on Twitter or Facebook dot com slash
geekish lesson. Who are our technical assistants this week?

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
Our two teaching assistants I'm calling them technical assistants are
Trever Garner and at Lil Yanka. I don't know if
it's your real name or if that's like a wrap
or performance name, but I like it. I think it's cute.
So thank you both for requesting the door milage nice.

Speaker 1 (02:16:45):
Are we ready to run screaming away from the door
of Malaje into the ten cent or waiting tear?

Speaker 2 (02:16:50):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (02:16:51):
Yes, All right, everybody, We're going to open up the
podcast with the ten cent origin. This is the section
of the podcast where Ashley is going to give you
the cliff notes, the very quick ten origin of the
door Malaje. In case you're invited to the capital city
of Wakanda, and you're at a nice, lovely diplomatic function
and somebody walks up to you and says, hey, can

(02:17:11):
you tell me a little bit about this door of Malaje.
You'll be well prepared.

Speaker 2 (02:17:14):
I would like to say before we get into this,
there are a lot of names that we're going to
use throughout this that are African or African inspired. I
don't speak any native African languages, so I am doing
my best in the pronunciation.

Speaker 1 (02:17:24):
Awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:17:25):
So the Dora Malaje aka the Adored Ones aka the
Mighty and Adored are Marvel Comics characters. They are bodyguards
to the current Black Panther, so that is not just
to Shala, who we typically think of as being Black Panther.
Whoever currently holds the Black Panther title. They were created
by Christopher Priest and Mark tech Sarah. It might be

(02:17:45):
t Haara, I'm not familiar with I've I've heard it's.

Speaker 1 (02:17:48):
Tech Sarah, but I'm not certain. I've never met the man.

Speaker 2 (02:17:50):
No disrespect. Their work is amazing. They were created in
what is still considered to this day to be the
best Black Panther run. Their first appearance is in Black
Panther volume three, number one in September of nineteen ninety eight.
They are younger than I thought. I didn't realize the
dorm Lage were a priest invention.

Speaker 1 (02:18:06):
They're a creation of Marvel Knights. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:18:09):
They are based in Upoga, Beern Inzana, Waconda, which is
a It's the it's a city, and Wakanda. Their members
include Dalia, Lulu, Nayla, Nerima, on yaika Asira, Fulami, Bali, Mira, Nakia,
Okoye Zola, and a secret strike force known as the

(02:18:31):
Midnight Angels I'll tell you a little bit about later,
made up of Anika, Ao and Tila. Their abilities include
Kamoio beads. Now, the Kamoio beads are the bracelets that
you see all the Wacondas wearing in the Black Panther movie.
That specific power set kind of seems to change depending
on how people want to use.

Speaker 1 (02:18:50):
Same with vibranium. Whatever we want vibranium to do, we use.

Speaker 2 (02:18:53):
The same thing with Ironman's armor. It's the same thing
with scarlet, which is.

Speaker 1 (02:18:56):
Powers same as dilithium crystals and star Trek. Whatever we
want them to do, they can do.

Speaker 2 (02:19:00):
Oil beets typically allow for searching the Internet, communication between
wearers and tracking devices. The Midnight Angels have a specific
type of armor. All of the Dormalage have vibranium armor
and various vibranium weapons, jet packs, and access to quing jets.
So they don't actually have superpowers. They are like Batman,
like Ironman. They are tech based superheroes and their team

(02:19:22):
amiliations include the Fantastic Four, the Hot toot Zarase, Manifold Storm, Thunderball,
the Wakandan Army War Machine, White Tiger, and the X Men.
And they are portrayed in live action by Lupida Niango,
who plays Nakia. Even though in the Black Panther movie
continuity she does not appear as a member of the Dormalage,

(02:19:43):
she is canonically pro the comics member of the dorma
Lage Dane Guerrera who plays a Koya, Michaila Cole who's
going to be playing Anika in Wakanda Forever, and Florence
Kasumba who plays Ao. So those are as your meet
cute on our sorry, you're tencent origin on all of
the dorm Lage.

Speaker 1 (02:19:58):
Now we're going to go into the meet yes, where
we are going to reveal where we first meeted and
qut it as a term that we stole from romantic comedies,
where we first meeted and cuted the Dora Malaje. Ashley,
I have a feeling our answer is going to be
exactly the same.

Speaker 2 (02:20:13):
Yeah, I had no idea who they were before I
saw Black Panther. It's the twenty eighteen movie. I'm sorry
to say. Yeah, No, it's funny.

Speaker 1 (02:20:20):
I read this late nineties early two thousand's Black Panther
Run by Christopher Priese, and I had completely forgotten the
dor Malaje.

Speaker 2 (02:20:28):
So like I honestly really only two prominent characters in.

Speaker 1 (02:20:30):
That run, I honestly have to say that it is
the Black Panther movie.

Speaker 2 (02:20:34):
I will say there has been a lot more on
the Dora Malaje and on their specific members and making
them individual characters versus like in the Christopher Priests run.
They are more of this indefeatable fighting force. They're just
used narratively very different, but they have become more relatable
and more deep in their characterization's post twenty eighteen. So

(02:20:57):
kind of like we were talking with Rey Williams movie,
the Doramlage are way more to the movie upping their
profile and delving into the depths of their character than
anything else. And that's not a knock on anyone who
wrote them before. That's just an observation about how their
stories have broken down. And that's the value I think
of adaptation, taking a really cool concept like this and

(02:21:18):
breaking it down and deconstructing it in this kind of way.

Speaker 1 (02:21:20):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (02:21:21):
If you want to hear more about the movie specifically,
because of course this History one oh one is going
to be about the comics continuity, if you head on
over to our Patreon, Patreon dot com slash Jawin. Not
only do we have a companion podcast, Geek History Lesson Extra,
but in Marvel Club right now we are in Black
Panther Territory. We are talking about Black Panther, Wakanda Forever,

(02:21:42):
all kinds of fun stuffhere. You can actually see our
beautiful faces as we do this as well. A Geek
History Lesson Extra. This week we're talking about Elite Female
Fighting Forces and we have that we have on the
DC side of things, Jason and Jeremy John.

Speaker 1 (02:21:54):
About Justice League two episodes a month. You are almost
done season two, getting close to the end of season two,
Justice leagu Yeah, we're about to hit unlimited territory.

Speaker 2 (02:22:02):
Ooh, that's when it gets really good and every character
of the Sun shows up. So we're just really proud
of everything we do over there. We would love for
you to come check it out Patreon dot com Sashtrawa.
You should know how to spell it jwii s.

Speaker 1 (02:22:12):
Yeah, but we want to make sure you never know.
This could be somebody's first episode.

Speaker 2 (02:22:15):
No, I'm gonna shame if you don't know how to
spell it. How dare you after I just asked for
a lot of grace and forgiveness. No, if you're new, honestly,
we'd love to come see you. We'd love to So
where have you been? Yeah? Where have you been for
four hundred and thirty something?

Speaker 4 (02:22:28):
Else?

Speaker 1 (02:22:29):
Have you been under a rock?

Speaker 2 (02:22:30):
I actually love it when we'll get to the section.
I love it when people are like I just found
it and I've been listening for four months straight.

Speaker 1 (02:22:37):
There's a lot of episodes to do that. All right,
let's get to a history one one. Let's learn about
the Door of Melijah.

Speaker 2 (02:22:40):
Yes, let's just to reiterate one more time in case
you're having a busy morning or something where you're listening.
We have not seen Wakanda forever at the time of
this recording. We will not be spoiling it. Yeah, they'll
only be fake spoilers, only for ten spoilers. I'll be
making up fake things right now. In fact, I know
for a fact it's confirmed in Black Panther Will con
Forever that Sue Storm shows up to sell Girl Scouts

(02:23:05):
at Girl Scout Cookies. Just sell Girl Scouts, sell human
Girl Scouts and Girl Scout Cookies at Wakanda a firm.
All I have to say is that dormalag wedding was
quite something.

Speaker 1 (02:23:14):
Was my personal friend Kevin fi You told me that.
All right, Ashley, let's let's hear about this amazing female
fighting for us. Yes.

Speaker 2 (02:23:22):
So, the Dormalaje are the personal bodyguards of the Black
Panther and they are recruited from every tribe in Wakanda.
This is intentionally designed to promote unity among all regions
in Wakanda. They are also noted as being quote a
pool of superior Wakandan women. Now, if you listened to

(02:23:44):
last week's history, that's when we talked about Rheary Williams. Yes,
Jason made a joke about maybe there are men that
are dormalage, there are.

Speaker 1 (02:23:53):
Not for this specific reason.

Speaker 2 (02:23:59):
So per marm the dormer large are quote an ancient
tribal tradition, the dorma lage were assembled as potential queens
for an unmarried king. So we're being heteronormative. They have
to be child bearing queens, okay, maintaining the piece of
Wakanda by ensuring that every tribe had the opportunity to
put forward one of their daughters for the crown end quotes.

(02:24:19):
So that's another reason why it's really important that they
come from all regions of Wakanda, every tribe that Wakanda encompasses.

Speaker 1 (02:24:25):
So for the black panther that can't get married, that's
what the dorm ma LAG's original function was.

Speaker 2 (02:24:29):
Yeah, exactly, back when we practiced a lot more arranged marriage. Yes, yes,
I've ever read a Black Panther comic and why they
referred to Black Panther as beloved all the time. This
is why because they could all be named his queen
at any time, which was something that I thought was
super strange when I first read the tiny He see

(02:24:50):
coats Black Panther, And this makes a lot more sense
that it's like this hollowed tradition, it's more ceremonial, that
it's not that they're all in love with him.

Speaker 3 (02:24:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:24:57):
I never realized that either. Again, I just thought it
was like a strange I guess thing in the patriarchy
that they call him below. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:25:03):
Yeah, I mean he is a king. So you we're
going to talk a lot about the idea, the concept
of a king and how like forward thinking Wakanda is
a little bit later.

Speaker 1 (02:25:12):
Okay, great, then we'll just leave it there.

Speaker 2 (02:25:13):
Yes, yeah, yeah, Although in contemporary continuity they tend to
be like a little more like the DC Amazons. They
have interpersonal relationships with each other. For example, a Nico
and Ao have been in a romantic relationship for a
long time. I would love to see them get married
in the movies, think about so great, they're not necessarily
all actively vying for a black panther's hand, got it.

(02:25:34):
You may remember from the tents in Origin that those
two characters, by the way, are going to be in
ocon forever, so you know, maybe they will be married.
I would love that. Typically the Dormal speak, I believe
it's pronounced the Hausa dialect ha Usa and They typically
don't speak to anyone except the king, the royal family,
or each other, so they're stoic. They're removed from a

(02:25:56):
lot of the other Wakanda, so they're kind of like
the British guard that the guards of Money in Palace,
the don't speak, or even like the handmaidens from Star Wars.
Fair for Padme. I did some research and the Housa
is an actual dialect. It is a language from the
northern Nigerian and adjacent regions. So I know Wakanda is fictional,
but that might help you in your mind space decide

(02:26:18):
where geographically in Africa it lies. Also fun fact in
the original In a Black Panther twenty eighteen, I know
that Winston Duke is doing a Nigerian dialect for his
performances in Baku, so I thought that was kind of cool.
So DLDR they keep the piece of Wakanda. The Black
Panther picked the Dorma lage from rible tribes to service
personal guard and ceremonial wives in training. Here are some

(02:26:40):
of those prominent members of the Dorama lage. These are
the ones that are either heavily featured in the comics
or in the movies often both, so I'm going to
break them down for you. The first is Anika. She
is a former leader of the Dorma Lage who was
arrested and stripped of her ranked after killing a chieftain
who had been victimizing women in her village. After a

(02:27:00):
she became half of the vigilante duo known as the
Midnight Angels. We've talked a lot about them. More to
talk about them coming up. There's a character named Asira,
who is a princess of the Jabbari tribe. The Jabari
tribe is Umbaku's white gorilla tribe. Ao is Anika's lover
and another former Dorma Lage. After Anika was arrested and
sentenced to death, Ao broke her out of prison and

(02:27:22):
they used some prototype armor to become the Midnight Angels.
Mira is a member of the Dorma Lage who lost
her right arm. She's reassigned to protect Shuri after this,
So if you ever see a Dormalalage with basically like
a Misty Night Iron Man kind of arm, that's Mira.
Nerima is a Dorma Lage member who helped Storm fight
the X Fight the V series of doombat. She's the

(02:27:44):
most prominent dorma lage when Storm is the queen of Wakanda.
Nakia is a Wakandan mutage, so she's a mutant with
superhuman strength, speed, and agility. She's a former dorma lage
of Tochala. I didn't know until doing research for this
that Nakia is technically a mutant. I didn't know either,
And I think that would be so cool if we
saw it. I don't think they'll do it in the movies,

(02:28:05):
but I think that is such a unique thing to her.
Okoye is a former dorm lage. Okoye is of the
Jaquale tribe and acted as a traditional proper concomitant. She
means like wife and training to the king, speaking only
to him and only in Hausa, an African language widely spoken,
affording the king and his wives a measure of privacy.

(02:28:27):
There's Queen Divine Justice, who's a street smart queen of
the Javari tribe of Wi Conda who was raised in Chicago.
She was a former dorm lage of Tachala. She originally
went by the name Schante Giovanni Brown.

Speaker 1 (02:28:39):
Okay, so she is sort of naturalized to Wakanda exactly yes.

Speaker 2 (02:28:43):
And then lastly there's Zola, who's the headmistress of the
dorm alage who trained most of.

Speaker 1 (02:28:47):
These girls and has no relation to No No, she
does not.

Speaker 2 (02:28:54):
So, Jason, I would like to ask you, now that
we've broken down, we know a little bit of the
history of the dorm Lage. I would love to know,
is there one of these characters who stands out as
your favorite or one that you think is the most interesting?
And I would love your answer right after this, okay,
Jason that people want to know who's your favorite dormalage A.

Speaker 1 (02:29:12):
I mean, I think it might be Sola. Now, I mean,
who is the one with one arm?

Speaker 2 (02:29:19):
Oh, Mira?

Speaker 1 (02:29:20):
I think it's Mira. I kind of I you know,
I'm I should do some googling. Is Mirah going to
be in the new movie?

Speaker 2 (02:29:25):
It's em and she's not? Or she if she is,
she is not. She has not curt announce m apostrophe
y r A. My favorite is probably a Koya. I
think that's the really basic answer. So cool, and she
has obviously her prominence and her portrayal has done a
lot to like up that character's proof.

Speaker 1 (02:29:46):
I mean, Mira, I will say this. I could be wrong,
but like a picture comes up, well maybe it's right.
I don't know, Like there are some pictures.

Speaker 2 (02:29:53):
Who knows, so people have so somebody on Reddit iss
theory people think she's in that movie interesting or in backman.
I would I would love it. And you could, honestly like,
that is a character that would be so easy to
just be like that Sure's childhood best friend, right, Like
you could do you could explain that character in a
really interesting way. Yeah, okay, So now that we've talked
broad strokes, I'm gonna talk to you about some stories

(02:30:17):
how the dormalage actually interacted with these characters. So there
hadn't been a dorma lage program in Wakonda for quite
some time until t'chala became Black Panther. He actually which
which is used to explain why in the original Yeah exactly,
So I'm like, honestly fine, they're in ancient order. He

(02:30:39):
reinstated the dorma lage program to calm tribal unrest in
the kingdom after his proposed marriage to a character named
Monica Lynn. If you haven't heard of Monica, don't worry.
T'Challa doesn't wind up married to her. She just kind
of causes some trouble in these early days. Nakia and
Akoye became the first dorma lage to serve to Chala
when they were only teenage. So if you read a

(02:31:01):
lot of the priest stories, you'll often see too Dora Malaje.
They're kind of the only two who.

Speaker 1 (02:31:06):
Yeah, they're always they're side by side of it, they
have you.

Speaker 2 (02:31:09):
Bald ladies who are always behind him. That's Nakia and
a Koye. As a result of their age, because they
were underage, T'Challa made it very clear that he viewed
them as daughters and not as potential wives. Because t'chala
is a good guy and this is a story written
and created by people in North America who are used
to monogamous relationships. A Koye understood this, but Nakia loved

(02:31:33):
to Chala and thought that he loved her. After T'Challa
was taken over by Jason's favorite Mephisto, Yeah, I mean
the Marvel Universe's favor right now, Mephisto. Yes, and he
and he kissed her. So, Jason, did you think Mafista
would be rearing his head in this Black Man no,
but I'll be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (02:31:50):
I'm I'm quite tired of Mephisto. He's not an interesting character.
I mean he's he's Satan. He's like, here's Satan. Yeah,
I mean, he's not an interesting villain. It's literally the devil.

Speaker 2 (02:32:02):
Nokia was so jealous of to Chala's fiance Monica Lynn
and her relationship with to Chala that she threw Monica
from a fighter blame during a war.

Speaker 1 (02:32:12):
Okay, and this dejector just threw her literally throw Foster. Yes,
that's that means you hate that person.

Speaker 2 (02:32:20):
Yes, well, she's like a sixteen year old Sorry to
all sixteen year old girls listening, but I was one once.
This doesn't seem like a wild accusation.

Speaker 1 (02:32:28):
It's true. We know it's true.

Speaker 2 (02:32:29):
This caused her to be removed from the Order of
the Door Milage. It may shock you to learn. Honestly,
if Neango throw somebody out a window in an upcoming
Black Panther movie, I would be I'd be interested in
watching that. Following this rejection, Nakia is recruited by Eric
Killmonger Jason for anyone playing along at home who doesn't
know who's Killmonger.

Speaker 1 (02:32:49):
Uh oh, boy, what's his super villain name? I can't killer. Yeah, yeah,
he's He's the villain of Black Panther one. If you've
seen the MCU movie, he's played by the wonderful Michael B. Jordan,
the wonderful Johnny Storm, Yes, and the wonderful upcoming Superman. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (02:33:07):
Oh boy, I forgot about that Ruber that movie ever
comes off.

Speaker 1 (02:33:09):
It's off the ground. Well listen, listen. By the time
the years in the future. I can't wait for these comments.
People be like, Toji's gonna be Superman, Like, we don't know.
We can't predict the future. I don't have a crystal ball.

Speaker 2 (02:33:20):
So well do I. While she was working for Eric Kilmonger,
she became an obsessive stalker up to Challa and went
under the name Malice.

Speaker 1 (02:33:32):
Malice Yeah. I think it's the name of a Sue
Storm identity as well.

Speaker 2 (02:33:38):
Malice.

Speaker 1 (02:33:38):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (02:33:39):
I mean, I gotta be honest, it's not the most
original evil lady name.

Speaker 1 (02:33:45):
Yeah. Sue Storm like got dressed up in a BDSM
outfit with spikes and chains, and.

Speaker 3 (02:33:50):
She was like, I am not Wow.

Speaker 1 (02:33:53):
Maybe she borrowed it from Nokia.

Speaker 2 (02:33:55):
Who's to say?

Speaker 1 (02:33:56):
I think Nokia borrowed it from Sue Storm.

Speaker 2 (02:33:59):
Maybe I mean dorm as the mom of be A,
still a teenager at this time. After Nakia was removed
from the Dorma Laje, a Koye was joined by a
new member because she needed another You need another character
to talk to. And this is the American. This is
Shante Giovanni Brown who came over from Chicago. She's only

(02:34:23):
kind of American.

Speaker 4 (02:34:25):
She was the.

Speaker 2 (02:34:26):
Princess of the outlawed Jabbari tribe, who are the worshipers
of the White Gorilla, the trio. Said Bymbaku in the movie,
she had been born in Wakanda, were in the Jabari
tribe's ancestral land, and was exiled to the United States
during a tribal war that killed her parents. She learned
of her Wakandan heritage when she grew to be an
adult when T'Challa inducted her into the Dorma Lage. So'sala

(02:34:49):
just kind of shows up and is like, Hey, I know,
Chicago's great, but what if you came to Wakanda and
you protected my honor? And she said sounds good.

Speaker 1 (02:34:57):
He's like, let's go for it.

Speaker 2 (02:34:59):
Let's go a free plane ticket, I'm all about it.
T'chala did not tell her the whole truth, and it
was a long time. Well, he didn't tell Shante exactly
how her parents died. He didn't tell her that they
died during the Civil War. He kind of left her
to her own devices to learn about her backstory.

Speaker 1 (02:35:19):
And meaning it's almost like if he had just told
her the truth, none of this drama would have happened.

Speaker 2 (02:35:24):
Almo almost this did eventually sow a lack of trust
between them for a while, which isn't the best trait
to have going on between a black panther and one
of the leaders of the Dormalage, if I can offer notes, Shalla.
Over time, the Dorma Laje expanded with a lot more
active members from various tribes. When Ta'challa married Aroo monro

(02:35:50):
aka Story of the x Men, they were no longer
in line as potential wives because he had a wife.
So even though T'Challa stated from the beginning that he
was not going to marry the Dormalage, now like those
doors were closed, it was absolutely not happening. So once
he got married, the Dorma Lage were offered the chance
to leave the Black panthers service. Because you can understand

(02:36:12):
how if you're a young woman with aspirations, you and
you couldn't be the princess anymore. Maybe maybe Kate Middleton
would have wanted to stick around as a Dormal lag
is all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:36:23):
That's right, and you're like, I'm not going to take
a bullet for this guy anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:36:26):
That's right. But because again, because the Challa said, you'd guy,
every member of the dormalage stayed in service of the
Black Panther, and they also absorbed the responsibility of protecting
his wife's health.

Speaker 1 (02:36:37):
And safety as well be aod boss. I honestly, let's
talk about that. That's great. Let's go.

Speaker 2 (02:36:45):
I think if you were looking at all of the
the we'll say the Avengers from the scope of the
MC or certainly some of the more popular characters. I mean,
Challa has to be near the top in terms of
quality of employers.

Speaker 1 (02:36:58):
I would think so.

Speaker 2 (02:36:59):
Because he's a good he's a good human being. He
follows a lot of the heroic journey kind of traditional
senses of what nobility is. He seems very fair, he's kind,
he flies people around the world.

Speaker 1 (02:37:12):
Yeah, I think he's I think he's one hundred percent
of great boss. I mean, he's definitely better boss than
Richard or Tony Starr or Tony Star. I mean, Steve's
probably near the top as well. Steve doesn't take employees.
He doesn't understand.

Speaker 2 (02:37:24):
I'm just saying if he did, he's no Norman Osborne
is all I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:37:29):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (02:37:30):
So now we're going to jump ahead quite a bit,
and we're going to jump all the way to Civil War.
Jason was civil War first one, okay, the only one,
not the American Civil the only one, not the Spanish
Civil War. No, the Marvel's the superhero civil War.

Speaker 1 (02:37:46):
Okay, Stanford, Connecticut goes boom boom boom, and that makes
the government real mad about superheroes. So they want all
superheroes to sign up and register and become basically government employees.
Ironman says, great idea. Captain America says, terrible idea. And
they punch each other a lot.

Speaker 2 (02:38:02):
Do you remember whose side to Chala took during the
Civil War? Pretty certain he was on Captain America's side.
Do you want to take another stabbat? They answer, pretty
certain he was on Ironmns. That's right, Jason mainly because see,
I know these things. Actually yeah, I mean you're the expert.
That's why. Yeah, of course, mainly because he was focused
on killing the Winter Soldier at the time, and Ironman

(02:38:24):
was like, you can, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (02:38:25):
He had such a revenge quest against Bucky that he
was just like, look, I don't care if this guy
is right, I am not attending meetings with this guy
dressed like the American flag.

Speaker 2 (02:38:36):
Also, if you think about it from this standpoint, he's
not an American national who it's a Chala.

Speaker 1 (02:38:42):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (02:38:42):
So him citing with the American government as a foreign
delegate is probably the murder choice. And they were like
register and he was like, I'm going to kill this
maybe Russian guy, of course, So that's why. So during
the Civil War, the dorm Law assisting Storm and they're
assisting to Chala when they go on a visit to

(02:39:04):
the White House as ambassadors of both wa kinda of course,
but also the Tony Stark pro Registration group of superheroes.
There is an incident there which leads the Dorma Lage
into battle against war Machine and his sentinels because they
were like, you can't go inside the White House and

(02:39:25):
the Dormalage were like, they're gonna go inside the White House,
and they were subsequently put under surveillance by the US
government because they didn't like that a foreign national had
such a powerful strike force, even though t'chala and Aurora
were operating on the side of like pro Registration Act

(02:39:45):
and also both have superpowers. Yes, yeah, I will say
that I have no problem imagining the US government extensively
researching a group of powerful African women.

Speaker 1 (02:39:54):
That strikes me as absolutely accurate.

Speaker 2 (02:39:58):
Yeahs yeah, yeah, like absolutely they would put these women
who are doing nothing but their job in that they
are protecting their boss, under intense surveillance and research. When
later T'Challa was followed by Black Widow on his way
to treat with Captain America, two of the Dorama Lage
confronted her and were like, back off, We're here to

(02:40:18):
protect our boss. They get in a lot of trouble
for doing their jobs, and she doesn't like that they fight.
Immediately after this confrontation, Iron Man and the Cape Killers
went to the Condon Embassy because they are going to
arrest the Dorama Lage for fighting Black Widow, but they
are denied entrance by Storm. So they're not a huge,
huge heart of civil War. But this is the beginning

(02:40:42):
of what will become a break in the ranks of
the Dorama Lage, okay, and which ones are going to
stay focused on themselves and which ones are going to
stay focused on the mission of protecting the Black Panther,
which is ostensibly what they're there for. The dorm Alage
make their next major appearance during one of the events
that is closest of all to Jason's heart, Dark Rain. Jason,

(02:41:04):
what's dark Rain?

Speaker 1 (02:41:06):
Uh? I'm not certain what you mean where Norman Osborne is. Yeah, well,
there's I think there's been a couple of dark Rain.
There's been a couple of things called dark Rain. So
that's why I was very a little bit thrown off here.
So you're talking about when this is when Norman Osborne
is in control of Shield or as he remained at Hammer. Yes, okay, okay, I.

Speaker 2 (02:41:24):
Just know that this is an era anytime you're just
not fond of it.

Speaker 3 (02:41:29):
So I actually like this.

Speaker 1 (02:41:30):
I like that. I don't know where you're coming up
with this. Actually, maybe I'm just gonna saying with one
every writing history like the Door of Malage what's going on.

Speaker 2 (02:41:37):
I'm in charge of the lasson that's right during the
events of Dark Ray, which I wrote is Dark Right, Doom,
Dark right, Dark Right. Doctor two kills two Dark not
mister Doom, Doctor Doom. He earned that medical degree from
Hollywood Upstairs medical leader. I think he did because he
went to college, like for physics. So when did he
get the medical degree? Well, I guess you could have

(02:41:58):
a doctorate in physics, you can, all right, never mind,
so we have fine arts degrees. Doom killed two of
the dorm Lage, and it might shock you to learn
that this caused to Chalt to strike out against him
and eventually handicap doctor Doom.

Speaker 1 (02:42:15):
Why didn't Doom just make them an offer they couldn't refuse,
Like Doom is always looking for brides. They want to
get married. I don't know if they want to get
The only people that he has the talk around that
giant castle are robots that sound like him, very boring conversations.

Speaker 2 (02:42:30):
Yeah, yeah, get some dormalaje in there. Yeah, that's funny.
So this incident prompts to Chala and the Dormalage to
create a specialized fighting style so they were better able
to outperform robots.

Speaker 1 (02:42:45):
And or magic robots like Doom.

Speaker 2 (02:42:49):
They also use this time to recruit new members and
expand their ranks. This is a detail. You'd have to
change it very heavily, but I would love to see
in the movie. I love the idea that the Door
have a unique and specialized fighting style, particularly they are
like this elite strike force and they don't have superpowers.
I would love to see something like this expanded more.

(02:43:11):
I think they could take down doombots like yeah, like
actually with like, let's be honest, what a lot of
people would call like quote unquote primitive weapons, Like we
don't think of a spear as being as specialized as
a rifle. I would I would love to see that
taken up and expanded on. So they are recruiting a
bunch of people, So they bring in all these new

(02:43:32):
young Wakandan women. They teach them this fighting style and
they're like, okay, so are you familiar with Battle Royale.
If you survive this fight, you get to be a
dormal lage.

Speaker 1 (02:43:42):
Oh okay. And it's not like it's your games almost.

Speaker 2 (02:43:45):
Yes, it's not a fight until one person is left standing,
it is. It is basically a fight to see how
much they've perfected this fighting style and how long these
people can last? People do die? How many dormal Lage
candidates there's thirty? How many do you think die?

Speaker 3 (02:44:02):
Wait?

Speaker 1 (02:44:02):
Wait, there's thirty total candidates? Yeah, all brawling and how
many can How many slots are there?

Speaker 5 (02:44:09):
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (02:44:10):
Uh, it's just they're going to take as many as pass.
I'm going to say twenty seven. No, no, no to
just to So it's actually not what I mean. Wow,
I know you're either going to get too high.

Speaker 1 (02:44:25):
They were. You said it was pretty brutal, so I
went with it.

Speaker 2 (02:44:30):
I think it's brutal by superhero ethics. Right, we're in
the black and white reality of like you are good
or you are bad. Like the fact that Black Panther
and a Koya and a like set these up and
then two women die. I was shocked when I learned this.
I will also say this, I'm in no way saying

(02:44:51):
that Doom is part of Wakanda forever. I don't know,
but I am saying I would love to see the
Dormalage beat him up screen. That would be so satisfying
for me. For so many reason, Jason was so enamored
with the idea of the dormlage kicking the snot at
a doctor too, but I kick him all the way

(02:45:13):
back to Latvaria.

Speaker 1 (02:45:14):
That's on my wish list for We're going to forever.
I hope, I hope there's a little doom thing in there,
a little doom Bot, little just one doomba, one little
he's maybe the size of a micromachine. He's maybe the
size He's a mini Doomy. He's a mini doom Would.

Speaker 2 (02:45:28):
You rather maybe it's a mini doo Would you rather
see a doom Bot or a Herbie?

Speaker 1 (02:45:34):
Actually this is a Sophie choice. I'd rather see a Herbie. Yeah,
the Herbie, the fantastic for the beautiful little Herby Hermy,
I really see Herbie. But I'll take what i can get. Look,
I'm getting anymore. We talked about this last week. I'm
glad that we're getting the little wingies on the side
of the Naymar's legs and his little green, perfect little
boy shorts, you know. But I'll take a Herbie. Yeah,

(02:45:57):
I'll take that. Yeah, yeah. But the problem is that
like Herbie, you know, Herbie has a little smiley face.
He's a robot. He'll fly into Wakanda the dorm logic
will murder Herbie within seconds.

Speaker 2 (02:46:07):
You know, they're very aggressive, but are the they are
which is appropriate to their jobs. It's it's interesting because
sometimes Herbie is like a fully fledged character and sometimes
the Herbies are a little bit, a little bit disposed.

Speaker 1 (02:46:21):
My Herbie is a fully fledged person, is he? Yeah,
he's they He's a fully I is.

Speaker 2 (02:46:28):
Herbie a boy? Does Herbie? Have Herbie have gender?

Speaker 1 (02:46:31):
Well, I mean Herbie's pronoun it's it's it's he. Herbie
is pretty is done? Because Herbie is designed as a
companion to Franklin.

Speaker 2 (02:46:40):
Oh sure, so a little boy? Yeah, okay, okay, whoa
that makes sense? Almost had a tragic I almost spilled
my glass of water and Ashley went, whoa. Not to
the fact that Herbie is.

Speaker 1 (02:46:51):
The companion foul of Franklin Richard's I love Herbie.

Speaker 2 (02:46:54):
We have more than one can An actions Herbie's calling
action figures Spotlight. Yeah, we have two Herbie action figures.

Speaker 1 (02:47:06):
Well technically, okay, technically we have three. We're not really Actually,
I have the pop Funko of Herbie. It's the only
fantastic four pop Funko I bought because cute as hell.
I have the little Herbie Action figure that came in
this fan is like four box at the you bought,
which I'm so happy you did because it's the only
Franklin Action figure they've ever made, and it's one of
the few Herbies they've made. And then there's like the

(02:47:29):
many Funkos and I have that Herbie as well.

Speaker 2 (02:47:33):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:47:33):
So yeah. Also, by the way, a fun fact, by
the time it's recording might already be here. But I
I mean getting getting another Herbie. No, I wish if
anybody wants to send us herbies email like geeks lesson
a Gmail dot give you the new I will take
all the Herbies you want. You know, Hasbro made that
giant four foot tall gloves Oh Jesus, there's rumblings that

(02:47:56):
it is there. They're finally shipping it. Wow yep. Yeah,
So I will keep the listeners updated if they go
out to show do a geekish lesson on Instagram photo
shoot of the glacts boxing video. Well, no, I don't
know about an unboxing Maybe we'll do that. Would it
be worth doing an unboxing video on the geekush lesson
Instagram On the tiki talk. I don't want to do TikTok.

Speaker 2 (02:48:18):
Do you think Dooms on TikTok?

Speaker 1 (02:48:20):
Is he doing the dormologies on TikTok?

Speaker 2 (02:48:22):
They're not, They're too busy. No, the dormologic. Shuri's on TikTok.

Speaker 1 (02:48:26):
For sure, she's teaching on TikTok.

Speaker 2 (02:48:29):
I think Surrey invented TikTok, so it would be Wiktok.

Speaker 1 (02:48:33):
No, I think she just invented it. I think she.

Speaker 2 (02:48:35):
I don't know, I know what everything in the Marvel
universe has like an off brand name. Oh, okay, so
like Wakanda talk walk talk walk talk, walktalk.

Speaker 1 (02:48:42):
Yeah, that's what that would be. I think Surry is
on TikTok. Three reason on TikTok too, Reason TikTok. Christoph,
Doom's adopted son is on TikTok and she's walking by
him and be like dad be on TikTok's or his
is just like my dad says, or it's like Doom
will prevail. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:49:04):
Kamala Khan is also on TikTok making her fan theory videos.

Speaker 1 (02:49:07):
Yeah. Probably, Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:49:08):
I gotta ask you one more thing about Doom. Do
you have to as we're getting back to the Dormal Luge. Okay,
do more? Are you familiar with it?

Speaker 1 (02:49:15):
I believe is that the storyline where Doctor Doom says
he basically tries to colonize Wakanda exactly. So uh, he's
like Wakanda's mine, baby.

Speaker 2 (02:49:26):
For like I wrote for the five hundred and fifty
fifth time he tried, which is like, this is a
really typical Doctor Doom thing to do. Yes, he is
always trying to show up and be a real colonizer
for the vibrant that.

Speaker 1 (02:49:40):
Was in New York City about five or seven times
he shows up. It's like New York City's time.

Speaker 2 (02:49:44):
Yeah, but it feels a little more pointed when it's
a European monarch doing it to a sovereign African nation,
a fascist monarch. But yeah, so do more happens?

Speaker 1 (02:49:56):
And what happens?

Speaker 2 (02:49:57):
Five hundred Dormal Law take a stand against eighty thousand
soldiers from the Wakandan Army. They are obviously under the
control of Doom at the time, the Wakandan Army, not
the Dormalage and the Navy, and they are later used
as Shuri's army to destroys Doom, to destroy Doom's global network.

(02:50:21):
So they take down eighty thousand Wakandan military forces, and
then Shuri takes these five hundred dorm Lage and uses
them specifically to destroy Doom's global network, which means like
taking down doombox and crashing satellites and beating up anyone
who gets in her way.

Speaker 1 (02:50:37):
Basically, got it.

Speaker 2 (02:50:39):
And then a smaller group of Dormalage is also used
by Tachala along with Deadpool.

Speaker 1 (02:50:45):
To kill doctor Doom.

Speaker 2 (02:50:47):
Okay, and this specialized group of Dormalage would go on
to be known as the Midnight Angels. Now, Jason, would
you be interested in seeing the Midnight Angels the specialized
task force in the MCU. I want your answer in
just a second. Okay, So I've just introduced this idea

(02:51:08):
of a specialized task force, the Midnight Angels. Jason, do
you think this would be an interesting concept to explore
the MCU?

Speaker 1 (02:51:14):
No? Why because I think it would dilute the brand.
I think it would be too confusing for a movie.
I think we need to learn that the dolor to
milt I don't like secret things inside secret things?

Speaker 2 (02:51:24):
Do they don't want to to your secret?

Speaker 1 (02:51:26):
Well, they're sort of the secret Service. Yeah, I guess
so they're not like a CIA. They're not an espionage
but they are an espionage branch. But they but I
don't public figures. But you know, it's like I don't,
I don't need especially. Look, I understand that those things
happened in the Row world. We were just talking about
Delta Force inside the US Army. Yes, Navy seals are
inside the Navy.

Speaker 2 (02:51:45):
Yeah, I'm sure theres stuff inside all military forces that
we can't even concede.

Speaker 1 (02:51:49):
I understand. But I think for the simplicity of a
story and a movie, I think just introduce those characters
and maybe say that's their nickname of that squad. Great,
we call ourselves the Midnight Angels. Yes, Okay, I wouldn't
make a secret thing inside of a secret thing. I
think that's fair for screenwriting terms, that is a hat

(02:52:11):
on a hat.

Speaker 2 (02:52:11):
I agree with you. I think I think it would
be cool to say the name, and I think it
would be a really fun wink to the comic readers.
But I think you're right. I think having a whole
subplot or a whole series around that might be as
you say, hats on, hats on, hats on, that's on.
So it's not always good between the Dormalage and T'Challa
during well his wives, of course not they're not his wives.

(02:52:36):
During a recent war with Thanos known as Infinity, Box
has always wars with the Dormalagie actually rejected to Challa's
leadership in favor of Shurry's leadership. Surrey had also by
this point been a black panther, so this is not
a totally out of line thing to do, because they
believe that she would stand against Naymore, who was under

(02:52:56):
the influence of the Phoenix Force at the time, and
they did not believe that to Challawood, so they broke
their spears symbolically and came under the orders of Queen Shurry,
so went and staid behind her. I don't really love
this event. I will not be recommending Infinity in our
recommended reading, but I wanted to bring this up because

(02:53:17):
the action of the Dorma Lage centering around Shurry and
nay More is obviously going to be a conflict and
drive a lot of the drama in the upcoming Wakanda Forever.
So if you are looking for a comic book nod
that they might make or precedence in canon, it is here.
It is in this story in Infinity. After that, the
Dorma Laje underwent a bit of a revolution led by

(02:53:39):
Ao and Anika. Those are the two characters who are
appearing in mcconaugh Forever, who are girlfriends. They kiss after
they appeared to steal two prototypes of Midnight Angel armor
and defected from Black Panther's service and the service of
the Wakandan royal family.

Speaker 1 (02:53:56):
So they steal these two sets.

Speaker 2 (02:53:58):
Of armor armors that were being designed for this task
force and they run away. Interesting. They don't want to
work for the Wakandan royals. They don't believe in the monarchy. Interesting.

Speaker 1 (02:54:09):
So I'm not gonna, you know, get too far into
speculation on a movie that we haven't seen yet, but
I just I just want to point out that I
have seen action figures for a certain characters can appear
in Wakanda Forever that has like an experimental armor. Uh huh.
That's pretty big, uh huh. And me thinks, and Me's
wonders if there might be seeds pulled for there there

(02:54:30):
might be some connections in this storyline.

Speaker 2 (02:54:33):
So Ao and Anika believed that Wakanda deserved a better
leader than to Chala, and they began to literate. They
began to liberate oppressed what condins they believed had been
neglected for too long, specifically groups of women who were
either ostracized or oppressed and asked for aid and nobody
else had looked after. Very similar to if you remember

(02:54:55):
in the twenty eighteen Black Panther movie, we see Nakia
when we meet her, is working for the this kind
of disenfranchised group of people as well.

Speaker 1 (02:55:02):
Yes, and she accuses.

Speaker 2 (02:55:03):
Atralla of basically being a city boy and not having
his eyes on all of his people. Okay, this village
of women that they initially free were attacked by the
Jabari white gorilla. That's right, and the women who stood
up and protected themselves took on the name of Dorama
Lage during the conflict and after, even though they weren't

(02:55:23):
following in the tradition of working for the royal family
or protecting Black Panther. The Midnight Angels and these new
Dorma Lage, along with some Jabbari tribesmen who came over
to their side, killed the white gorilla whose name is
Lord Mandla. He's a bad guy, don't worry about him
too much. Basically, they were not being led by Imbaku.
They're being led by a bad guy at the time. Yeah,

(02:55:44):
he's a classic Black Panther exactly. I don't I just
don't worry about it. They took that control of the
Jabari land, created a sovereign nation and named themselves its
leader hooray Rey. Going against Anika and Ao's best instincts,
the new Dorma Lage also supported a rebel group known
as the People, and they established an alliance with them. Okay,

(02:56:07):
the People helps the Dorma Lage. I stand up against
an attacked from Black Panthers hadtoot Zarase, which are the
secret police of Wakanda. Okay, I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing. Yeah.
So we're like two we're like two strike forces deeper.

Speaker 1 (02:56:24):
I'm also going to point out that it is just
also a little confusing as a as a Marvel fan
like myself, that there's also the Midnight Suns.

Speaker 2 (02:56:31):
Yes, and these are the Midnight Angels. Yeah, and the
Midnight Suns are like the Vampire group of.

Speaker 1 (02:56:39):
They're just like yeah, yeah yeah. So it's a little
every time you say Midnight Angels, I always think like
I'm like ghost.

Speaker 2 (02:56:45):
Writer, Yeah yeah, yeah, uh to Shala and his secret
police attack the Jabbari lands repeatedly until the had Zarase
were then taken as prisoners by the Midnight Angel. So
the ladies win. The Midnight Angels and people the other
group that they were working with, planned to carry out
a coordinated attack against the Golden City, the capital city

(02:57:07):
of Wakanda, until the Midnight Angels confronted the people for
their violent tendencies of the soldiers towards the women they
were supposed to be liberating. Interesting, so there's a crack there.
Not long after the Midnight Angels liberated the hitto Zarase,
they had taken prisoners in order to show that they
would not give in to violent methods. So yes, they

(02:57:27):
had taken these prisoners. They had won the battle, but
they let them go because they weren't going to kill them.
They were just bargaining chips. Anika announced publicly that they
would not be acting violently, and along with the confirmation
of her rejection of t'chala and the monarchy, she ran
away into the woods, screaming that she had no country anymore.

(02:57:47):
When Shuri confronted her and subsequently her girlfriend Ao, she
asked them to assist the black panther from an assault
carried out by the people, their current and former allies.
So she's like, hey, I know you ran away and
I know things were bad for you, but like, I
trust you, I need you. Can you come back and
protect us. Even though both of the Dorma Lage leaders
oppose the idea of helping the king, Shuri told them

(02:58:10):
that T'Challa was a man of honor onlike the leader
of the people. Because it's comics, Suuri convinced them they did.
The people were overthrown and following a big fight to
Chala held hearings for the Dorma Lage at beaman Aszariya,
which is like a big courthouse in Wakanda, Okay. The

(02:58:30):
Midnight Angels demanded for their lands to be made independent
the jamarilands that they had taken over. But because patriarchy
and because comics have to fall back into the same
patterns over and over, you gotta put the toys back
in the toy box.

Speaker 1 (02:58:41):
They got to go back exactly the way. It's always
a perpetual second act.

Speaker 2 (02:58:44):
Exactly while on trial, Anika realized the value of their
king and made peace with him. All right, These events
inspired to Chala to form a council to write down
a constitution so Wakanda could have a democratic government, but
he would remain king and the sole representative of his
people and their ruler. So he couldn't just call himself

(02:59:10):
an ambassador and not be the king anymore, because then
he couldn't live in the palace, and then he couldn't
have all the pomp and circumstance.

Speaker 1 (02:59:16):
So he became like the No, he's still he became
like the queen in England.

Speaker 2 (02:59:20):
Oh, yes, exactly that. Okay, except also if you've read
any comics from that point forward, like he's still just
acxsis the king of the entire nation. I think this
is a really neat and interesting idea of having this
incredibly powerful, intellectual African nation and then trying to move
it forward from a monarchy, which is such an oppressive

(02:59:43):
structure into a democracy that to me, this story, and
I have read it, smacks of editorial getting their hands
on this and being like no, no, no, no, no no, no.
Deaula is king of Waconda. He will always be king
of Waconda. Make him king of ok you can talk
about the constitution. He is king of Wakanda, And this
is where we're going to leave our lesson, because there

(03:00:04):
is currently Protectors of Waconda is being published right now
which is starring the Dormology characters and flushing them out,
and we are not going to spoil current continuity comics.
So that is your dorm Lage a GI history lesson.

Speaker 1 (03:00:17):
Awesome, thank you. What's next next is the recommended reading? Ashley,
is you going to tell you three or four books
that if you're interested in more Dorama Lage or Midnight
Angels the weird Charlie's Angel spinoff that didn't happen, you
can read them at geekcsher lesson dot com slash recommended reading.
There's little widgets there you can click on it. I'll
take you right to the book and you can have

(03:00:37):
lots of books to read during this upcoming holiday season.

Speaker 2 (03:00:40):
Yes, the first thing that I am going to recommend
for you is Black Panther Volume one by Christopher Priest.
This is the volume that introduces the dorma Lage, their concepts.
If you want to see them in their original forms,
this is where they come from. Also, we've recommended this,
i think on every single Block Panther episode we've ever told.
If you have just never read Black Panther by Christmas
Priest and you have any passing interest in it, like

(03:01:02):
this is art, read this book. I'm also going to
recommend Wakanda Forever by Nedde Okoa, for she is not
only an incredible African futurist pros right, like I can't
recommend her pros enough, but she wrote Wakanda Forever, which
is the first book that is solely focused on the
Dorma Lage that is not just them as supporting characters

(03:01:23):
in a larger Black Panther or Surrey story. So we're
gonna remember Wakanda Forever, and then I am also going
to recommend the book that's coming out right now, Protectors
of Wakanda, a History and Training Manual of the Dorma Lage.
I only started in September of this year, so the
trade is coming out next year. This is a pre
order if you pick it up at the time of
the recording by Karama Horne. She is one of my
favorite voices on Twitter at all. I was so psyched

(03:01:46):
when she got this book. And this is really picking
up where Wakanda Forever left off, building out the history
and the mythology of the dorma lage that we have
been establishing for so long. And also is it is
it accessible for somebody who is not like that well
versed than Black Panthers. Yes, I have read the first
two issues. If you just kind of know that they

(03:02:08):
are this fighting.

Speaker 1 (03:02:10):
You're fine.

Speaker 2 (03:02:10):
Yeah. Honestly, it's really really good. So I would recommend
picking up all three of those if you are looking
for the best Dora Milage Black Panther reading experience. Hello,
and welcome to Geek History Lesson. I'm Ashley Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 1 (03:02:27):
And I'm Jason wanna be iron Man Junior in Men.
Welcome to Geek History Lesson, the place we like to
call your mine University, where we invite you into our
fake school that is actually a podcast, then teach you
everything you need to know about a character and a
little bit less than an hour, sometimes more if we
really like the character, sometimes less. If we really like
the character, the time is a construct. Just come along

(03:02:47):
for the ride and welcome. Hello, Welcome everybody, Hi Ashley.

Speaker 2 (03:02:51):
Hi, thank you all for doing us today.

Speaker 1 (03:02:53):
Today we are talking about Ironheart slash re Re Williams
going to be a bona fide Star and the upcoming
Marvel Studios Wakanda Forever bat Black Panther almost said Bat Panther.
What a cross over that would be Black Panther will
Conda Forever coming out soon?

Speaker 2 (03:03:10):
Yes, okay, do you want to ask me if they
were any tas well?

Speaker 1 (03:03:13):
Where I'm still I'm enjoying just being here. Welcome everybody, Welcome,
every Hello. The room's getting kind of crowded. Now you
might want to back off. Turn Cat Brago. Our own
personal Golden Panther is in the studio, we should say,
and I just want to point that out, Ashley. Yeah.
Do we have anybody that has suggested and requested Reary
William Slash Ironheart the new upcoming star of Bat Panther,

(03:03:33):
the amazing crosserver, It's going to be Black Panther three.

Speaker 2 (03:03:36):
We only have one. We have one TA that is
Stephen Gibson. So shout out to you, Steven Gibson or
maybe it's Stefan, I don't know your life. Thank you
for requesting this episode. And also I want to give
a special shout out before we get too deep into it,
to diego our very own diego nunyez. Yes, a very
own black Crow or very own Diego Nunez, our research
assistant who did a lot of heavy lifting helping me

(03:03:58):
about this episode together this week. So thank you, Diego
demand the myth, the legend himself.

Speaker 1 (03:04:05):
He's the only male member of the dorm lage. That's
that's proven, that's.

Speaker 2 (03:04:09):
Not absolutely not When we do that episode, there's a
very specific reason. Why are we ready to move into
the ten cent origins?

Speaker 1 (03:04:20):
Yes? I think we are, all right, everybody, We're going
to cop into the ten cent origin That is where
Ashley is going to give you the cliff notes version
of everything you need to know before. Rerey Williams In
case you're going to a Wacandon themed cocktail party at
the wood Condon Embassy and someone says, who is this
re re Well, now you'll know.

Speaker 2 (03:04:37):
Yes, so re Ree Williams. That is her real name
on her birth certificate, as been by Brian Michael Bendis.
Re Ree Williams aka Ironheart aka iron Man aka Lady
Ironheart aka the Queen of Latveria is a Marvel Comics superhero.
She was created by Brian Michael Bendis, Eve d Sorry
Eve Ewing, Mike Diadado, and Kevin lebrun Uh, and her

(03:05:01):
first appearance is in in Well, this is one of
those silly comic book things where her first cameo appearance
is an Invincible Ironman volume three number seven in May
of twenty sixteen, and her first full appearance as an
Invincible Ironman volume three number nine in July of twenty sixteen.
But that's only is Ruby Williams, and it's later that
it's Ironheart, which is.

Speaker 1 (03:05:19):
Why she has four created by credits.

Speaker 2 (03:05:23):
Ultimately, the first comic she ever appears in is Invisible
iron Man volume three number seven, May of twenty sixteen.
If you're looking to buy that's the slappable comic, that's
the one that matters. And her abilities include being a
skilled inventor and engineer and a super genius level intellect. Yes,
she is a super genius, which is barely different than
just being a regular genius. Who knew her team affiliations

(03:05:46):
include the Young Avengers, the Champions in Stark Industries. I
didn't know working for a giant Mega corporation counted as
a super team. And she is about to be portrayed
in live action by Dominique Thorne in the upcoming At
the time of this recording Honda Forever movie, which I
should say before we get any deeper Jason and I
haven't seen. There will be no Waconda Forever spoilers, none,

(03:06:08):
Any associations or predictions will simply be from the power
of our brains because we are also super genius here.

Speaker 1 (03:06:12):
And they'll probably be completely wrong.

Speaker 2 (03:06:15):
I don't know. We predict stuff sometimes sometimes, So that's
your tencent origin.

Speaker 1 (03:06:19):
Awesome. Let's move into the Meet Cute. That is where
Ashley and I are going to first tell where we
first meeted and cuted, said character, Ashley, where did you
first meet Reary William.

Speaker 2 (03:06:30):
I'm actually gonna tell you Diego our research assistants meet
cute first.

Speaker 1 (03:06:34):
Oh that's always lovely.

Speaker 2 (03:06:35):
And he wrote. I remember her being part of a
wave of characters that were coming out in twenty sixteen
to replace the original heroes. I will say after researching her,
she is so much more than that, and I fell
in love with her, So.

Speaker 1 (03:06:46):
I think that's very very s I look forward to
the wedding bells.

Speaker 2 (03:06:48):
Yes, indeed. Also, I think she's still a child. Mine
is very similar to Diego in twenty sixteen. I remember
when she was introduced kind of in the same wave
of characters that Kamala Khan kicked off. We got a
new Wasp, we got a new squirrel girl back in play.
I didn't read a ton of Ironheart before this episode,

(03:07:11):
but I remember loving her look, and I remember a
lot of the original covers and variant Reevey's always had
an incredible, incredible look. So that is my meat cute.
So Jason, what is your meat cute?

Speaker 1 (03:07:23):
My meet cute is look. It's hard with these newer
characters to say anything different, but I read this run.
I read the Invincive Iron Man run by Brian Michael Bendison.
That's where I first met miss Williams, which.

Speaker 2 (03:07:33):
Led right into Infamous Iron Man.

Speaker 1 (03:07:35):
She's only what was the year she was created? Twenty sixteen? Yeah,
she's not that old.

Speaker 2 (03:07:38):
She's only six years old.

Speaker 1 (03:07:39):
Even fictionally she's only six years old. Yeah, yeah, she's
just barely older than intern Studio cat Brego.

Speaker 2 (03:07:46):
That is you know, that is very true. I will
say that for anyone listening, if you kind of met
Rebel like the rest of us, through Iron Man lore,
we are going to get a little more into the
Iron Man implications of it all over on Gee Kiss
with us an extra which you can find if you
go to Patreon dot com slash jaw and that's our
extra discussion. We're going to talk about what it takes
to make a great iron Man analog. Jason's a huge

(03:08:08):
iron Man fan.

Speaker 1 (03:08:09):
I am a machine is one of my favorite favorite
Marvel characters, so that's going to be an interesting discussion.

Speaker 2 (03:08:14):
Yeah, I'm like a passing iron Man fan, so I'm
excited for what we get into from a storytelling perspective,
but also if you're here for the Black Panther and
the Waconda tize of it all. We're doing Marvel Club
right now, and we are going back and doing a
retro review of Black Panther, and then we're going to
do Black Panther Waconda Forever there.

Speaker 1 (03:08:31):
I think by the time of this episode hitting, I
think Black Panther will be up on the Patreon and
Black Panther will condif Forever will be like right upum
on its Hey, it'll be greening into the Patreon over
at Patreon dot com slash jaw and jaw ii N
And if you you know, and if you're not a
Marvel fan, we also do Jason and Jeremy John about
Justice League, where me and my friend review Justice League

(03:08:54):
the animated series. We're halfway through season two. We're buckling
towards Starcross. If you're a big you know exactly what
that means. So come on over and we just want
to say thank you to all the super friends that
help support us over there. We really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (03:09:08):
Yeah, that's how we find cool people, like our research
assistant Diigo.

Speaker 1 (03:09:11):
I mean that is true.

Speaker 2 (03:09:12):
We should say that Diego was a patriot. He's an
og Og based and you know, we talked to him more.
He was super awesome. Now he works on podcasts there.

Speaker 1 (03:09:24):
You go, Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash jaa and jwim
could be a future employment there you go, and lots
of bonus podcasts. We check that out here. All right,
it's time to get to the history. One on one.
It is time to talk about Rey Williams. It is
time to discuss her six year history.

Speaker 2 (03:09:42):
That's a lot in just six years. Yes, okay, so
re Re Williams again. That is the name on her
birth certificate. They go out of the way to state
that multiple times when we meet her. Is a fifteen
year old engineering student. To my knowledge to date, she
is still only fifteen. She is not twenty one. Time
doesn't pass the same way inside comics. Her father, Demetrius

(03:10:06):
re Re Williams, was caught in the crossfire of a
gas station robbery and was shot before she was born.
Oh so his nickname was re Re. He died when
she was born. She was named re Rea. Okay, if
you were wondering why she grew up in the South
Shore neighborhood of Chicago, Illinois, I have two thoughts about this.

Speaker 1 (03:10:30):
Yeah, okay, one careful. We have a lot of listener
in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (03:10:33):
Can you believe that she's from Chicago and not from
New York? Oh?

Speaker 1 (03:10:38):
You mean, because the Marvel University generally puts all of it's.

Speaker 2 (03:10:41):
Chara the center of the Marvel Universes New York City.
I'm glad she's not from New York. To be honest
with you, I will also say I really like Reri
as a character. I think she's a great addition to
the Marvel Cinematic universe. But there are some things about
her character that I feel like are a little reflective
of what we might see stereotype young black female Americans

(03:11:04):
to be and I don't know if setting it in
Chicago is the most inventive choice we could have made
for her, but I do ultimately like the choice because
it makes her different than Iron Man and Spider Man
and a lot of the other characters, even though once
she steps up and joins teams, she does spend a
lot of time in New York. She lives and is
raised by her mother, Ronnie Williams, and her aunt Sharon,

(03:11:25):
and her stepfather Gary.

Speaker 1 (03:11:27):
We like Gary. Gary is a good guy. We like Gary.
Got it. Gary's are good.

Speaker 2 (03:11:33):
Gary's are good in this universe.

Speaker 1 (03:11:35):
Got it.

Speaker 2 (03:11:35):
When Rear was five years old, she has taken to
a psychologist because she demonstrated behavioral problems, and it turns
out that these problems were displays of Rerea being bored
because she was smarter than everyone around her, including her parents.
Thing that is a real thing. That's also a common
reason why children act out in school. And according to

(03:11:56):
this psychologist, she was a super genius. You know, if
that's a real thing, I think that's a comic book thing.
I think it's a shorthand to be like, she's at
least as smart as Tony Stark, if not smarter than
Tony Stark, which like Barslow.

Speaker 1 (03:12:08):
Well, remember we've had this discussion several times in several
different characters that there's always the idea of like who
is the rank of the smartest people? Because what's the
awesome whole guy's name Amede is Chow and he's supposed
to be like the third smartest person in.

Speaker 2 (03:12:22):
The Ela Lafayette moon Girl, as you remember from our
Moongirl and Devil Dinasharps is the smartest character in the
Marvel Comics universe, and then Read is supposed to be
number two, and it's like who is making these less yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:12:31):
Yeah, and then Grey is up there as well.

Speaker 2 (03:12:35):
Yeah, and then the DC side of that is like,
mister Terrific is the third smartest man in the universe.

Speaker 1 (03:12:41):
Comic fans are obsessed with the ranking. I don't think
it matters. She's super, she's whip crack smart in a
wild choice in my opinion. The psychologist in the scene
is also like you can know parents Gary and Ronnie
Gary Good, stepdad Gary Good Gary Good Gary. You have
to be really concerned because of her intelligence she might
not have for other people, so she might turn into

(03:13:01):
a psychopo o, which okay, I just I don't think
because you're smarter than everyone you are not able to
have empathy. But I think they were trying to introduce
the idea because Tony Stark has a very dark side
right mirror. Tony Stark has also gone evil a.

Speaker 2 (03:13:16):
Couple of times, I mean your most obviously with his alcoholism.
As I like to joke, he's the best villain of
the MCU. I think they were trying to give us
this with re read. I don't really think it ever
pays off. They just kind of use this to make
her an introvert who doesn't have a ton of friends,
which is fine. I think it's a little convenience.

Speaker 1 (03:13:32):
This feels a little bit and maybe this is very common.
They we're avel universe where people are trying to maybe
they are worried about that if a kid becomes super smart,
they think, well, we have doctor Doom in this universe.

Speaker 2 (03:13:42):
Could this be the next doctor and Doctor Doomas we're
going to get into is he's kind of all over
re restoring.

Speaker 1 (03:13:48):
Well in the actual story, it kind of feels like
this might be just a red herring to be to
give the story some steaks of and to give Tony
Stark some steaks of is this girl gonna be an ally? Yes?

Speaker 2 (03:13:59):
Or a villain?

Speaker 1 (03:14:01):
Yeah? Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:14:02):
So one day she's working in her garage, which is
kind of Reread's little workshop. She's building a compact communication
device for superheroes to use.

Speaker 1 (03:14:11):
Ah like a star Trek dos communication. No literally, exactly
like that, ye fact. And a neighborhood girl named Natalie
Washington caes her in there working. She talks to her,
she's nice to her, she shows some faith, basic human empathy,
and they become best friends because Natalie took a genuine
interest in what Rie was doing.

Speaker 2 (03:14:28):
They're about ten years old. Okay, i'd now good Gary
and nice Natalie. Oh that is so funny. We'll touch
on that in a second.

Speaker 1 (03:14:38):
Oh no, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:14:40):
If you know comics, you know what's to both of
these characters. At the age of eleven, Rerie is given
a full scholarship to attend the Massachusetts Institute of Technology
aka m I t So Jason. Yes, Lunella Lafayette when
girl we talked about her, she's ten years old. She's
the smartest character in the Marvel Comics universe. At eleven

(03:15:02):
years old, Ruby Williams is given a full ride to MIT.
So two of the smartest characters in Marvel Comics continuities
are young black women. How cool is that?

Speaker 1 (03:15:13):
That's cool? I just thought that was really cool. I mean,
I'm curious to see how they progress in Professor will
Hunting's math class. You know, it's a reference. I barely understand.
Do they bring him an apple? We'll find it. Yeah,
A very small section of the audience hopefully left.

Speaker 2 (03:15:33):
Yeah, there you go. So when she was thirteen, so
two years after being accepted into MIT, they are having
a picnic, a church picnic in the park with all
of her friends and all of her family, and they
are caught in the line of fire in a drive
by shooting.

Speaker 1 (03:15:50):
So she's now going to suffer two drive by shootings.

Speaker 2 (03:15:53):
No, no, no, this is just so. Her dad was
shot outside a gas station before she was born. Ah,
okay it she was just in uterus. It doesn't even count,
you're not. So. Then she's thirteen, there's a drive by
and good Gary and nice Natalie are both shot in
the heart boy and die. Oh, this is this is

(03:16:14):
Marvel comics. This is Marvel Comics.

Speaker 1 (03:16:16):
Got some City, Where's Batman?

Speaker 2 (03:16:18):
And again? I just want to bring up. This might
be me being overly sensitive. I thought, having two really
important members of a black family gun down in a
drive by in the South side of Chicago, I thought
that was a little convenient. I thought we could have
done a better choice in how we gave her tragedy personally.

(03:16:41):
So she gets real sad. And when smart people in
the Marvel universe get real sad, what do they do?
They build a that's right, they become engineers. So re
restarts building her own prototype version of the Iron Man
armor because from the age of nine, she started watching
multiple international news ondcast at the same time, and she

(03:17:03):
really liked Iron Man because he was an engineer, so
she decides that she should be Iron Man as well. Okay,
she based her suit off of the Model forty one.
If you don't know what that is, just google it
and you will understand the design of her original suit.
It's basically like, this is the shorthand that we gave
the artists to draw the reference for her original suit.

Speaker 1 (03:17:21):
It's based on Model forty one.

Speaker 2 (03:17:24):
Right now, and she builds it mostly using stolen materials
from MIT, where she was still a student. She's allowed
access to labs and engineering equipment at the time. The
suit initially was supposed to be a way to challenge
herself and to draw focus from the grief in her life,
but it quickly became a passion project and something that
she would use to debut herself and her abilities to

(03:17:45):
the rest of the world. So she tests her prototype
out by flying around the country. Mostly there's this refrain
of rereabing like I want to fly, I want to fly,
I want to fly. She doesn't necessarily set out to
punch bad guys, which she really wants to fly.

Speaker 1 (03:17:58):
She want to fly like an eagle.

Speaker 2 (03:18:00):
I'm gonna say yes, based on that iTunes review a
couple of weeks ago. She even tries her first act
as a superhero to stop to convict two escaped convicts,
but again she's mostly like I want to fly. Look,
I can fly. She tests the integrity of the suit
by standing in front of an armored truck and manages
to th way to test that than that but okay,

(03:18:20):
she's thirteen, that's true, and she manages to stop them,
but the suit barely holds together. If I shock you learn,
Tony Stark is impressed by her accomplishment, being an actual
child who managed to build this Iron Man esque suit.

Speaker 1 (03:18:32):
And he visits her after to see her work.

Speaker 2 (03:18:35):
He says that he likes her passion, he thinks she'd
make a great superhero, and then, in typical Tony fashion,
he poaches her to suit up and fight alongside him
in Civil War two. Electric Boogloo. That's Diego's joke, and
I like that joke.

Speaker 1 (03:18:48):
I actually figured he's fight against catsin Marble. I kind
of figured he might show up with an injunction and
be like, copy right, baby No.

Speaker 2 (03:18:54):
But later on MIT is like, if you don't continue
telling people that you go to MIT, you made this
on our campus and we demand copyright, which is very American.

Speaker 1 (03:19:05):
Is very It's very similar to a trend. There's a
lot of Read Richard stories where when he patents something
in a different location, sometimes that company will come after
him for the patent.

Speaker 2 (03:19:14):
Yes, yeah, yeah. There is a lot of discussion about patents,
I will say, not a lot of lawsuits, a lot
of patent talk and respects, a lot of patent talking.
An Invincible Iron Man. If you are unfamiliar with the
events of Civil War two, Iron Man fights Captain Marvel
and winds up in a coma during the events of
Civil War two.

Speaker 1 (03:19:35):
Yeah, it's it's about inhuman who can predict the future,
and Carol wants to arrest everybody that the inhuman says
is going to commit a crime in the few. It's
minority reports superhero, Yes, exactly what it is.

Speaker 2 (03:19:45):
Yeah, but all you really need to know Tony's in
a coma, which means he can't iron Man. So rereuticize
that she should continues Tony's legacy as a hero as
a child and as a hero, so she works on
improving her armor. She creates an AI for the suit,
and she uses Stark technology as a basis for everything
she does. And she names herself iron Heart. She names

(03:20:06):
herself iron Heart because she doesn't want to call herself
iron man. Okay, she doesn't want to call herself iron woman.
She doesn't want to call herself iron girl. Okay, and
her stepdad and her best friend both died being shot
in the heart, so she calls herself iron Heart.

Speaker 1 (03:20:23):
That's the origin of the name.

Speaker 2 (03:20:24):
Yeah, I actually don't think iron Heart is a horrible name.

Speaker 1 (03:20:27):
I don't either.

Speaker 2 (03:20:28):
I think the ethos for the heavy handed way in
which we explain the choice of the word heart, Like
you could literally just say iron heart. I like the
sound of that. That would have worked for me. But
there is this kind of heavy handed incontinuity explanation of
why it happens.

Speaker 1 (03:20:45):
Well, I understand it because you know, when you say
iron hearted, that actually means cruel m hm. So you're
taking this, you're taking this word and you're sort of
trying to make it a little bit better evocative. I mean, yeah,
I don't. I don't think iron heart is a bad name.

Speaker 2 (03:21:05):
I'm glad it's not iron girl or iron maiden or
iron woman.

Speaker 1 (03:21:10):
Iron maiden is a good.

Speaker 2 (03:21:13):
Also, not for the implication of like maiden and virginity
and things like that. You know, also like maiden damsel
in uh is that a bluss?

Speaker 1 (03:21:24):
It should be.

Speaker 2 (03:21:26):
Also as part of her creation process and using the
stark tech, she gets a Tony stark Ai who kind
of serves as a pseudo mentor because the real Tony
isn't a comma. She needs someone to talk to, and
he brings up this interesting discussion about the word female.
Do you know what the like table of elements abbreviation

(03:21:49):
for iron is. It's f E So female is literally
like iron man.

Speaker 1 (03:21:54):
Oh, but based on that logic, wouldn't she say iron male?

Speaker 2 (03:21:59):
But so she does like that, but he keeps trying
to be like the Iron Girl and she's like, no,
thank you. So she names herself Ironheart. After she names
herself Ironhart and decides to be a superhero. In her
first outing, she accidentally teams up with Pepper Pots, which
she's really really excited about, who is rescue at the.

Speaker 1 (03:22:15):
Time, also in a suit of armor a very bluish
and Noah and rich reddish in the comic books, but yes,
I actually think.

Speaker 2 (03:22:21):
The red armor's cooler. They meet and they are ambushed
by a techno based Japanese crime Curtel and their leader
is called the Techno Golem. She isn't inhuman who has
technopathy basically for all intents and purposes. Rerey escapes with Pepper.
As Pepper fights them off, she is able to use

(03:22:41):
the tony AI and a cheap laptok to hack into
the technoglem and take them all down. So she basically
proves to the world of this very public display and
to everybody who works inside of Stark Industries how capable
she is with no real tech and no real money
at her back. This action also catches the attention of Shield.

(03:23:03):
It might shock you to learn Shield always kind of
hanging around led by Sharon Carter at the time, they
you know, diego here uses the word offer her. I'm
gonna say they threaten her with the opportunity to become
a Shield trainee, and Reread's not really having it. She
doesn't like traditional power structures and authority and presents it

(03:23:26):
in a way that I think is really well reasoned,
Like she's like, I don't think you're bad, but I
don't like your methods. So why would I work with
you Just because you work with just because you worked
with Tony Stark, just because you work with a lot
of Avengers doesn't mean that I have to team up
with you. And to give Sharon Carter a line where
she's like, I hate it when smart people hate us,
and I thought that was really funny. I'd actually love
to see that linelift right in the MCU. So she

(03:23:47):
gets this opportunity from Shield, come join us, Come be
a baby Shield Agent trainee, Come be a bona fide
Shield approved superhero. Amanda, I was quick, Yeah, it's like
she's still a teenager. For issue was into when she
takes over the Invincible Iron Man story. It's in the
first pall Y, you're an unproven teenage superhero. Here's a badge.

(03:24:07):
I mean, in all fairness, you and I love the Robins,
which is not all that much different than this type
of ascent into status within the Marvel Comics universe.

Speaker 1 (03:24:21):
I guess the difference to me is that the Robins
are unlicensed vigilantes, whereas this scene.

Speaker 2 (03:24:27):
Shield is a governmentation. Is Shield literally giving her a license? Yeah? Shield?
At this time, you know, she's still a minor. It
is specifically stated, is like tied into the UN. So
they're kind of like a global a police force.

Speaker 1 (03:24:39):
They're sometimes tight in the un sometimes not so, Yeah,
are sometimes not so.

Speaker 2 (03:24:44):
She gets this dope offer from Shield, and then Pepper
Potts comes back around with Amanda Armstrong ASTERIX If you're
not familiar with Amanda Armstrong. They decided in twenty sixteen
that Tony Stark's parents weren't actually Tony Stark's parents, Oh,
he was adopted. So Amanda Armstrong is Tony Stark's biological mother,
who's like a Melissa Ethridge style country singer who, after

(03:25:06):
Tony dies, takes over his company. So Pepper and Tony's mom, Amanda,
then come with another offer for re Rea and they say, hey,
why don't you come work in Stark's old lab as
a base and you can use this cool room that
has all the Iron Man suits in it, kind of
like the back Cave. So she's got two offers right now,
Shield and Stark Tech.

Speaker 1 (03:25:25):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:25:26):
Then MIT comes back because following some of these deaths in.

Speaker 1 (03:25:31):
Her life, Professor will Hunting, I still.

Speaker 2 (03:25:34):
Don't know who that is.

Speaker 1 (03:25:36):
I've never seen that movie. Everyone should go see that movie.
I'm just sad them thrown out there. We're gonna have
a little sidebar here for good Willie Hunting corner. Go
see that film.

Speaker 2 (03:25:44):
Re retook a leave of absence from her studies at MIT.

Speaker 1 (03:25:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (03:25:47):
So then MIT comes back around and they're like, hey,
remember you built iron Heart using or the original iron
Heart on our campus, using our stuff. Yeah, we're gonna
sue you for the patent if you don't come back
to school right now and continue your work and publish
it under the MIT boundaries or auspices. So she's three.

(03:26:10):
She didn't offer from Shield, Stark Industries, and MIT. Then
oh boy, the Champions come around because they see her
in Wyoming fighting us to take it down as super
of the Champions. I'm going to tell you, okay, thank
you for asking. The Champions are a pretty contemporary group
of teenage superheroes, consisting at this time of Miss Marvel,

(03:26:32):
Kamala Khan, Braun amadash Show, who later goes on to
be the totally awesome Hulk, viv Vivian Vision, Spider Man,
Miles Morales, Nova Sam Alexander, and Wasp Nadia van Dine,
and then also Snowguard Omka Aliac and the time displaced Cyclops.
So the young Cyclops, the one that Brian Michael Benda's

(03:26:54):
to the contemporary timeline. So in total, she's been Ironheart
for like a month and gets the offer to join Shield,
join Stark Tech, return to MIT, or join the Champions.
This is a lot of choices for a teenager, even
a super genius teenager, to make. I'm going to tell
you who she chooses right after this. So, Jason, who

(03:27:20):
would you choose if you were reby Williams? I would
choose to go to Disneyland, not even disney World. Disneyland, Well,
I'm you know, it's too big it's so much size.
I want, you know, I just want two parks. I
don't want five for six, seven, eight, I don't know
how many parks.

Speaker 1 (03:27:35):
Are in there.

Speaker 2 (03:27:36):
I don't know what I'll go you there.

Speaker 1 (03:27:38):
So if anybody out in the podcast land would like to,
you know, find me a Disney World. Hey, here you go,
make that happen. I think she's going to choose the
Champions because she's young and cantankerous and a kid. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:27:49):
You probably also think she joined the Champs because you've
seen some of the covers have come out since twenty sixteen.

Speaker 1 (03:27:53):
I've read some of that book.

Speaker 2 (03:27:54):
She does join the Champion. She also takes up with
Stark Industries and does use a lot of what Stark
Tech can make available to her. She does work with
Shield on occasion, and she does return to m I T.
So ultimately she accepts all of the offers laid out
before her.

Speaker 1 (03:28:15):
Too many things, really, there's only so much, so many
hours in the day, because why not?

Speaker 2 (03:28:19):
Yeah, but jeezus, she's a super genius.

Speaker 1 (03:28:20):
Oh that's fair.

Speaker 2 (03:28:21):
She can do everything all at once, everything everywhere, all
at once. Then there's an attack on the Smithsonian. Why
is there an attack on the Smithsonians. I'm so glad
you asked.

Speaker 1 (03:28:31):
Oh hey, why was there an attack on the Smithsonian.

Speaker 2 (03:28:33):
There's an actually an attack on the Smithsonian because Commander
Sharon Carter of Shield is in there and they try
to blow her up. Okay, And so Ironheart comes and
she's like, hey, can I help And they're like, no,
who are you? I'm Nick Fiery. I haven't spoken to
you yet.

Speaker 1 (03:28:52):
Wait what yeah? So wait Nick Fury was attacking Sharon Carter.

Speaker 2 (03:28:55):
No, so Sharon Carter gets supposedly blown up at this
gall at the Smithsonian. Okay, So Ironheart rushes over there
because she knows who Sharon Carter is to try and
help her. Nick Fury's like who are you? We haven't met.
And then Lady Octopus shows up, who actually is a
spider Man villain. She's the second Doctor. Yes, she's literally
called Lady Octopus, not my book, and my book she's

(03:29:17):
called doctor.

Speaker 1 (03:29:17):
Octopus's called Lady Octopus.

Speaker 2 (03:29:19):
She says so multiple times, No re retakes her down,
which of course as a display in front of Nick
Fury and the shild agents.

Speaker 1 (03:29:25):
They're like, oh, yeah, we actually were trying to recruit you.

Speaker 2 (03:29:27):
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (03:29:27):
Yeah, Yeah, you're cool.

Speaker 2 (03:29:28):
You're cool, cool, cool.

Speaker 1 (03:29:29):
Hey, what if you went to lat Veria.

Speaker 2 (03:29:32):
And overthrew it for us?

Speaker 1 (03:29:34):
Sounds like a nick Fury thing to do.

Speaker 2 (03:29:35):
And because Doom wasn't there at the time, a female
character named Lucia von Bardis had taken over and declared
herself Queen of Latveria. And they were like, well, she's
a lady, and you're a lady, so what if you
fought her? And Ai Tony Stark is like, re redn't
do this. They're going to use if you screw up,
they're going to use you as a scapegoat and say

(03:29:56):
that you were a child and you're not an author
Ray Shioald agent. And she goes, you know what, I'm fifteen.
I'm going anyway. So she flies the lot Ria, fights
a bunch of doombots, beats back, Lucia v bardies and
declares herself the new Queen of Latveria. Okay, Jason, I
want to ask, uh, is there any chance of this

(03:30:16):
happening in the MCU.

Speaker 1 (03:30:18):
I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (03:30:20):
I think it would be very very funny.

Speaker 1 (03:30:23):
I mean, look, I understand the story reasons why this
had to happen, but I don't see any I don't
see in any world where Ironheart just flies in and
somehow beats doctor Doom.

Speaker 2 (03:30:33):
It's not Doctor Doom. Doctor Doom is dead. She beats
a bunch of doombots.

Speaker 1 (03:30:37):
No Doctor Duom I think is good at this time.

Speaker 2 (03:30:39):
Yes, he's good, but anyway, he's not there, and Latveria
is like in shambles. So I say she declares herself
Queen of Latvaria, because there is a scene where she
beats back Lucia and she's like, hey, I'm the Queen
of Latveria. But she didn't like mean it like that.
It's a joke, okay, But of course everyone takes it
very seriously, and it takes shield a minute to fly

(03:31:01):
across the world because they're not as fast as she
is in her iron Heart armor and their truskellions and
quin jets and whatever. So she actually takes on the
responsibility of leading a country and talks to military leaders
and brings in brings in un AID, and establishes the
first free elections in latvi Aia. Okay, in the span

(03:31:24):
of I'm gonna say two days based.

Speaker 1 (03:31:25):
On the comic book, Yeah, all right, yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (03:31:29):
Which is I think supposed to illustrate her kind of
big picture thinking. They don't want to work with these
military leaders because they think they're terrorists, and Reb's like,
well you the whole world abandoned them. They were just
trying to do what they need, Like they use rereal
lot to kind of point out where international diplomacy can
fall short during this time. Not long after this, Tony

(03:31:51):
Stark wakes up out of his coma and is like, hey,
I'm iron Man again, and Reebi's like, oh, okay, I
guess I'll join the Champions Champions full full time.

Speaker 1 (03:32:05):
Oh, full time.

Speaker 2 (03:32:06):
So she was kind of involved with the Champions, but
because she was the lead of the Invincible iron Man book,
she spent a lot more time doing sort of general
Ironman things, working with Pepper, working with MJ who was
a part of Stark Industries at the time, which really
threw me off because I wasn't reading iron Man she was.
And then when Tony's like JK. Friday woke me up,

(03:32:28):
she kind of becomes a Champion in a more full
time capacity, and as often happened during this time, Mobile
Comics immediately sent her to space to fight Thanos.

Speaker 1 (03:32:38):
Oh what yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:32:41):
So because Sam the Young Nova was a member of
the Champions, they kind of go off to help the
novacre okay, and they accidentally run into Thanos, and because
iron Heart had had some success kind of charging it
villains and beating them with the help of AI, Tony

(03:33:02):
stark and her own intelligence, she just charges at Banos
and tries to beat her up beat.

Speaker 1 (03:33:10):
Her us is the Tony stark Ai gone now that
Tony's alive, she.

Speaker 2 (03:33:13):
Still has it. But the Tony Sarki is also like
question Mark Evil because they have this whole subplot about
like Friday's concerned because it's not It wasn't programmed as
an AI. He's a human being with ulterior motives, and
she doesn't have ulterior motives because she's just working in
service of her programming. So the Tony Sarkai is there,

(03:33:34):
but she's not working with him as much as she
was before. She has this whole team of Champions now.
Thenos promptly a disintegrates her armor and she doesn't have
very much to do from that point forward. I think
they did this because they wanted to keep read around
in a book, because they were probably already eyeing putting
her in the MCU at this time. Of course, it's

(03:33:55):
just a great character with a great look, a great
young female character. The problem with the Champions is they
already have a robotic type character because they have Viv
from the Vision Family exactly so, and also because re
Re had defeated like the Queen of lat Very, like
some legitimate, you know, top tier level superheroes. Because she
had to basically be Ironman for three volumes. Compared to

(03:34:18):
some of these other characters, She's very powerful with this armor,
so I think the intention was to kind of nerve
her and do a more personal storyline to grow her
as a person, because Viv has almost the same power set,
and I think it's kind of a bummer because she
doesn't get a ton to do for the rest of

(03:34:39):
their space adventure. Eventually, they do come back to Earth
because it's comics and you gotta and so they had
to Tanzania in Africa because they're gonna do some good work.
They're gonna install some water filters, all right, great and
things like Champions, I need your help to install these
water filters for these nice Tanzanians. And they're like, cool
man thing, we're here and then Nova and Wasp fall

(03:34:59):
through portal into an alternate reality called Weird World.

Speaker 1 (03:35:04):
I've heard of weird World before world. I'm not familiar
Weird World, which.

Speaker 2 (03:35:09):
Is difficult to say if you are unfamiliar. It's basically
like what if you fell into fantasy Dungeons and Dragons. Okay,
so they all fall through, they all get new names,
and they all get D and D classifications. Okay, so
re Re falls through and becomes Lady Ironheart, who is
a paladin. If paladin is basically as close as you

(03:35:29):
can get to being an engineer in the fantasy world.
If you watch Strange New Worlds Star Trek, you've seen
a very similar archetypical story.

Speaker 1 (03:35:38):
Did in an episode very similar to that in season one.

Speaker 2 (03:35:40):
And everyone on the Champions eventually falls through and they
all immediately forget who they are and they fall into
these roles and they're like, we've lived in weird Weird
World forever.

Speaker 1 (03:35:51):
This is where we were born, this is where we
will die.

Speaker 2 (03:35:53):
Re Rely is the only one who remembers who they are,
where they came from, and that they have to leave.
So she is the one.

Speaker 1 (03:36:02):
She's the guy in the chair, She's.

Speaker 2 (03:36:04):
The one on the inside, working really hard to try
and get everybody else out because she's the only one
who knows the truth of it. She fights a big
villain called is Shoe E s hu Aka, the Master
of the World. And I want to say, Diego provided
this great note ocause I know he's a big fan
of this run. Because I didn't know who this character was,
so I want to read it for you. For a note,

(03:36:27):
I did not know who this character was. In case
you don't, don't feel bad. He's basically a forty thousand
year old caveman who was abducted by aliens and mutates
into an immortal obsessed with conquering the world. He's in
charge of Weird World. Yeah kind of h but his
name is Ishoe I guess so, thank you so much.
So she discovers that he's the one keeping them captive.

(03:36:50):
He's the one they have to defeat. He's the big boss.
So in the final battle, Lady Ironheart is able to
explain to sam Aka the New Nova what's going on.
He is consumed by all of his power granted to
him by his shoe because he'd been working for him.
Viv the Little Vision Girl assimilates herself into Lady Ironheart's armor,

(03:37:13):
and they all work together to explode into a huge
display of power.

Speaker 1 (03:37:20):
And get everybody back to the six one six.

Speaker 2 (03:37:22):
It's a really complicated story that I think only exists
because somebody at the time said, wouldn't it be cool
if they went into a D and D world? Like
I don't know, maybe Karen Gillan was around somewhere, but
I think when you take science fiction characters and put
them in fantasy worlds, it's really fun and if you've
never seen any of the art from this world, it's
definitely worth exploring. The big thing that comes out of

(03:37:45):
this is because Viv and re Re have to work
so close, with Viv putting her consciousness into the Ironheart
Army armor. Once they get back to the six one six,
Viv realizes that she has feelings for re Rea. She
has a crush on her, and when they were merged,
it made Viv realize that she had wanted to kiss
re Rea, so she does just that. They have a

(03:38:07):
smoochie spoof.

Speaker 1 (03:38:08):
I want to please, yep please. Re's quite taken aback.

Speaker 2 (03:38:14):
She tells Vic is a washing machine washing she's a
synthesoid thank you very.

Speaker 1 (03:38:20):
Much, talking washing machine. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:38:22):
Is she more or less real than Billy and Tommy?
That's an interesting discussion. Re retells Viv she only wants
to be friends, and going forward, this kind of starts
to affect re Rea's time on the Champions. She this
is super typical in my opinion of teenagers, especially teenage girls.
I don't think this makes really bad in any way,

(03:38:44):
shape or form. But she's kind of like, I am
uncomfortable in this circumstance with this person, and she's upset
that she was kissed without warning or consent. She tries
to explain this to Viv, but becomes increasingly frustrated when
vivasically doesn't take her seriously, and she keeps accusing her
of using quote robot logic end quote like Viv's like, well,

(03:39:07):
I like, do you so I kiss you? And Rherei's
like right, but can you you can't understand why that
upset me? And Viv's like, but I liked you, so
I kissed you. Like it's very one to one. She
has a hard time empathizing in a real ironic move
in my opinion, because way way way back in Reeree's origin,
we were afraid that she was the one who had
no empathy all. During this time, it's revealed that the
reason that Rheve's having an increasingly dramatic reaction to being

(03:39:31):
kissed is because the son of Mephisto, a character named
black Heart, had influence and control over Rere, so he
encourages her to confront Viv. They have a big fight,
and I mean, like an actual superhero level fight. Re
Re goes to Viv's house and attacks her.

Speaker 1 (03:39:50):
Whoa get over your feelings kids.

Speaker 2 (03:39:53):
Because black Heart is trying to draw out the rest
of the champions so he can take them down and
impress his dad MEPhI Still, because even though he's an
immortal being, he's basically a teenager to fight this team
of teenagers. Okay, of course, Viv is able to break
black hearts hold on re Re by apologizing to her,
and she recognizes that she was selfish and impulsive and

(03:40:15):
wrapped up in her own feelings and she wasn't able
to consider re reas feelings and this apology gives read
the agency to break free. I think again, it's like
a lot of things with real I think it's a
really heavy handed metaphor, But I actually think the message
around consent and how acting towards someone without consent can
affect them, Actually think it's really strong here. This is
one of my favorite arcs of the Champions have actually,

(03:40:35):
even though it's really kind of not being up to
her best standards, got it. Afterwards, re Rey and Viv
discussed their feelings, and Viv says that she wishes to
not push Rerear away because of her feelings, so they
agree that despite the fact that there won't be an
ongoing relationship with them, they are going to be friends.
I think it's very mature and I applaud the storytellers
for doing this. Really goes back to Mit. She says,

(03:41:00):
a physical shop there. She had her shop had been
at Stark Industries before this, so she's like, I'm in
my lab back to MI I t and run my
own lab with their facilities and their money, So like,
good for her for taking their money, and through her
newfound resources, she works on a new project, developing her
own AI for her armor so she doesn't have to
use a version of Tony Stark or no armor or

(03:41:23):
no AI at all.

Speaker 1 (03:41:24):
What's a like, well, we're gonna get there. Well, I
know that's why I'm asking.

Speaker 2 (03:41:31):
Okay, then please will I skip so that we'll get there.

Speaker 1 (03:41:37):
Okay, we're gonna get there. I'm just excited for the Ironer.

Speaker 2 (03:41:40):
Spends a long time perfecting the A. There's like a
whole plot before the A gets a name of personality.

Speaker 1 (03:41:47):
Yeah, she debates, should it look like Ben a Flack
or not? Professor will Hunting says.

Speaker 2 (03:41:50):
No, it should look like Matt Damon.

Speaker 1 (03:41:53):
It's a whole conversation. No, that's what Professor will Hunting is.
He's Matt Damon.

Speaker 2 (03:41:56):
Oh is he Wait, he's not Robin Williams.

Speaker 1 (03:41:59):
Rob Williams is like a psychologist therapist in that movie.
Don't worry about it, just move on, Oscar winning movie,
Goodwill Hunting.

Speaker 2 (03:42:09):
Okay, So she's at she's working her lab. She's trying
to make her own a I. She's trying to make
her own her girl Friday. And who should keep bothering her? Jason?
Who should keep coming by her lab to ask her
about her wacky inventions? And who should Mit keep trotting
through her lab to be like, look at how smart
she does, Look at how smart we are? Look at this?

Speaker 1 (03:42:27):
I should tell you it's obvious this entire podcast professor
will hunting.

Speaker 2 (03:42:32):
But a bunch of world leaders, a bunch of bunch
of presidents, world.

Speaker 1 (03:42:37):
Leaders coming to.

Speaker 2 (03:42:39):
Because comment. Okay, because we value intelligence in the Marvel
Comics universe.

Speaker 1 (03:42:44):
I don't agree with that, but okay.

Speaker 2 (03:42:45):
They do this basically to illustrate that unlike Tony Stark,
who knew how to really court people with a lot
of money, he was good at playing the game, she's
not interested in that. She basically tells them leave me
alone and uses her or upgraded arm cannons to scare
them away.

Speaker 1 (03:43:02):
Either hand me a rent, your get out.

Speaker 2 (03:43:05):
So, Jesson, I want to ask you as a writer, Okay,
I've pointed out over the course of this lesson a
couple of different things where the writers behind Reeby Williams
really got out of their way to make her different
from Tony Stark. I think as a writer, this is
a smart.

Speaker 1 (03:43:19):
Choice to do to make her different from Tony Stark,
of course.

Speaker 2 (03:43:22):
Because the lazy choice is to just make her a
character who looks like a young black woman but is
basically Tony Stark. She's not sarcastic like Tony Starks, She's
not as charismatic to a group as Tony Starks. She's
not as interested in working in the public sector as
Tony Stark. She has emotions on like Tony Stark. Do
you think those are all smart choices? For real?

Speaker 1 (03:43:41):
I mean, yeah, you have to make a character different
from the four Bearer that they're based on, or else
there's no point to the creation of that character.

Speaker 2 (03:43:48):
Mm hmm, so yes, yay. While she is working at MIT,
a villain called Class shows up. He wants her to
join a group of villains called the Ten Rings, which
if you're a Marvel Comics reader you're probably familiar with.
During this time, well, she's fighting against them. She makes
friends with a kid in her neighborhood named Xavier King.

(03:44:09):
I just want to bring him up because he's just
a nice nerd that re recalls on the phone sometimes,
and uh, he's he wears these sunglasses and she's like, oh,
they look like Jordi la Forge and he's like, yeah,
they are based on Jordi la Forge. I love Star Trek.
And then they talk about how great Deep Space nine
is and I just think that's really cute and I

(03:44:31):
really liked it, and I was really sweet, so I
don't really need Xavier King to be like a character
who shows up in the in the movies or anything.
But I would really love it if we saw that
Reread was like a Star Trek fan. That's I just
wanted to say that. So they spend a bunch of
time talking about her AI, and he helps her kind
of solidify the idea of what she wants her AI

(03:44:55):
to be. So, because she was used to working with
a Tony Stark AI that was based on a human
brainwave pattern, she begins developing, scanning and compositing her own
brain waves and her memories to kind of finish off
who this AI is going to be. And it takes
the form of an aged up Natalie, who was her
best friend who was shot in her origin story. So

(03:45:19):
the AI's name is Na t A l I E. Jason,
I want you to put on your writer hoad and
think about this. What does the Natalie acronym stand for?
Because they always stand for something, But I want you
to tell me right when we get back. Okay, Jason,
what does Natalie stand for?

Speaker 1 (03:45:40):
Okay, can you spell Natalie for? I'm going to write
this down. I'm going to Okay, spell Natalie for me, please,
n okay.

Speaker 2 (03:45:46):
A T A L I E.

Speaker 1 (03:45:52):
This is an acronym.

Speaker 2 (03:45:53):
It's an acronym for an AI. Oh boy, we don't
know her.

Speaker 1 (03:46:01):
New analytical, tactical, tactical and accessory living intelligent engine.

Speaker 2 (03:46:13):
You got one, right? Okay?

Speaker 1 (03:46:16):
Which one?

Speaker 5 (03:46:16):
Did? I get?

Speaker 1 (03:46:17):
Intelligence?

Speaker 3 (03:46:17):
All right?

Speaker 2 (03:46:19):
Honestly better than I thought you would have died.

Speaker 1 (03:46:21):
I'll take it AHI.

Speaker 2 (03:46:23):
It stands for Neuroautonomous, Technological Assistant and Laboratory Intelligence Entity.

Speaker 1 (03:46:29):
He stuck an hand in there. I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (03:46:30):
Well, it's an ambersance, so I understand it. I'm gonna
say nonsense, absolute nonsense. So re re and the Natalie AI.
So when I when I refer to Natalie from now on,
it's this AI.

Speaker 1 (03:46:44):
Pro gotten.

Speaker 2 (03:46:45):
They returned to Chicago after learning about the disappearance of
Dasia Hamilton, a girl from their neighborhood, their childhood neighborhood,
and we can hardly find any details. Nobody's really investigating it.
So she builds a little investigation team with her mom
and Xavi or the cute boy who she was talking
about Star Trek with, and learns that Daja was interning
for a local politician, Thomas Birch. Who was actually upon

(03:47:09):
used by the Ten Rings. Yes, the same crime syndicate
who was trying to recruit Read earlier in this very storyline,
they wind up saving her, It's all okay. Re retakes
an opportunity to drop out of MIT and to use
her money to purchase studio in Chicago to establish a
new base of operations, so she basically starts Williams Industries,

(03:47:30):
kind of like an answer to Stark Industries. Everything is
cool for a while until one day Chicago becomes overrun
by zombies. That happens a lot, and re Re learns
that they are all coming from the Midway Airport.

Speaker 1 (03:47:47):
The Midway Airport and Jason, who do.

Speaker 2 (03:47:49):
You think might be behind this creation of the zombies?
My fist though it's actually the Ten Rings, the same
crime syndicate who's been.

Speaker 5 (03:47:57):
Bugging re Re over and over and over seems over
seems like in My Booboo, No, we did the Memphis
the storyline with a champions likely is able to reverse
the zombie plague.

Speaker 1 (03:48:08):
She travels to New York.

Speaker 2 (03:48:10):
Because if you've just experienced zombies and you're in New York,
which Marvel superhero do you think we have to go
talk to about this.

Speaker 1 (03:48:18):
I'm gonna say it's either Blade or it's doctor Strange.

Speaker 2 (03:48:24):
You know, I think we should maybe call the second
option and ask him about this time about Okay, impromptu interview.
You didn't know doctor She's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (03:48:32):
A guest on this episode running Here we go, Here
we go.

Speaker 2 (03:48:38):
Boy, I hope he picks up.

Speaker 1 (03:48:39):
We don't usually call him.

Speaker 2 (03:48:42):
Yeah, I'm not back up. Well, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (03:48:47):
Hello. Actually I already do your colleagen. It's because I
use the doc magic Doctor Steven Stranger, Hello.

Speaker 2 (03:48:57):
It has been.

Speaker 1 (03:48:59):
I want to ask of that song. Do you remember
it's been a while? I remember that line? You don't
remember ever last?

Speaker 3 (03:49:07):
Or what if it is?

Speaker 1 (03:49:08):
It's been a while? It's sure in excess?

Speaker 2 (03:49:11):
Who knows?

Speaker 1 (03:49:11):
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (03:49:12):
No, Stained, I fully don't know who they are a
big Stained fan. So I want to ask you what
do you need about your time with re Read? Because
you did a couple of really really important things with
him her.

Speaker 1 (03:49:25):
Sorry, are you sure you know?

Speaker 2 (03:49:27):
Gender wrong?

Speaker 1 (03:49:29):
And I think you have a mind slug of the
inside your brain?

Speaker 2 (03:49:33):
Probably do me?

Speaker 1 (03:49:36):
Who are recalling my special powers?

Speaker 2 (03:49:40):
You're calling your special powers?

Speaker 1 (03:49:41):
No, my special powers are a little wonky right now
because of my adventure with Hold on a second, the
mind slug is called thank you know who?

Speaker 2 (03:49:50):
What? Who? What?

Speaker 1 (03:49:52):
Woman? Are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (03:49:54):
William? So you used two really cool tools when you
were working with three re Okay to help investigate the
zombie place. Yes, remind me, Yes, the Iaga Moatto, of course.
And you also used the Stone of Halla.

Speaker 1 (03:50:11):
Oh, yes, I remember the Stone of Holla. That's the
old hall Cree Halla Cree.

Speaker 2 (03:50:17):
Yes, because, as I'm sure you remember, the Stone of
Halla was stolen from the sanctum. It can open a
portal of unfathomable power.

Speaker 1 (03:50:28):
Doubting my memory here, doctor stre Yes, Stephen, if I may,
only my wife can call me that. I think she
goes do Stevie, you have had so many incredible adventures.
I don't I don't want you to forget. Yes, too many,
some might say, exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:50:47):
So you're you're searching for the stone, you use the
ia Agamato and you discover that it was in the
well spring of power, which is of course located in
Wakanda place.

Speaker 1 (03:50:58):
Yes, that oldest notte And.

Speaker 2 (03:51:01):
I think it's so interesting that you are the reason
that re revisits Wakanda for the first time.

Speaker 3 (03:51:07):
Well, you know you have to.

Speaker 1 (03:51:10):
Every young person, I think you should visit to Wakanda
once or another. Have you been to the bazaar? I'm
gonna say yes. The finest silk in the world is
in the bazaar, and they have amazing cloaks. I mean,
do not tell the Cloak of levitation this but I
got the second cloak there and it was immaculate, beautiful.

(03:51:32):
Also great Mozzaillistics. Kind of weird place to buy Mazzillistics,
but the bizarre Wakanda, great Mazzarella stics.

Speaker 2 (03:51:39):
Okay, so I'm gonna let you go, but.

Speaker 1 (03:51:40):
I have I have to ask just one more question. No,
I'm not leaving now. I'm staying.

Speaker 2 (03:51:43):
Great because you are a movie star after all. Of course,
any chance that you're the reason that rere goes to
Wakanda and Wakanda forever?

Speaker 1 (03:51:52):
Oh, I will say, is that in the second scene of.

Speaker 2 (03:51:58):
The click, Oh I actually we lost a cone.

Speaker 1 (03:52:02):
All second, I'm checking the caller ID here it says, yeah,
says my FISTO hung up the call.

Speaker 2 (03:52:11):
I'm sorry we lost we lost act strange as a bomber.
Yea man, he was gonna tell something really cool about
black panthermcondaf forever it was. I really just wanted to
bring that up because I do think there's a chance
we make a little baby doctor Strange cameo.

Speaker 1 (03:52:23):
You think I would? Honestly, I would love for that
to be the case. I don't think it's I'm a
big fan of Doctor Strange. The more movies you want
to put him in, put him in there.

Speaker 2 (03:52:31):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you about when we
were went to Conda. Okay, so she shows up on
a conducts doctrine. Cents are there, Tony Star gets her passport?

Speaker 5 (03:52:39):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (03:52:40):
Who was there to greet her? sureI isn't that nice?

Speaker 1 (03:52:44):
Surrey, the sister of T'Challa.

Speaker 2 (03:52:46):
Yes, the princess of Wakanda. One may even say, but's like,
I don't have time for courtesys, princess. I gotta get
down to business. And and sure he doesn't like that
very much. So they do not get along when they
first meet. You mean, Rea doesn't like that, re rein
sure you don't like each other very much. They are,
of course, forced to work together when an invasion of

(03:53:07):
shadow creatures escapes from this well spring that Doctor Strange
sent her to investigate in the first time UH, and
they are attempting to drain the life force from the
people of Wakanda.

Speaker 4 (03:53:19):
UH.

Speaker 2 (03:53:19):
They fight a villainess called Silhouette, and in order to
take her down, they recruit Okoye, who you remember, she's
a really prominent member of the Dora milage.

Speaker 1 (03:53:28):
She is played by Dinnick Rerr.

Speaker 2 (03:53:31):
In the movie. I don't know if Silhouette's gonna be
in Wakanda forever, but I could definitely see an O, Koye,
shury re Re team up moment. I like that the
three of them get a chance to work together, because
you have two brains and a brown Not that Okay
is not a brilliant strategist, but she's not a genius
the same way that Shuri and really are. They all
are able to shut down the well spring, but only

(03:53:56):
when they meet the leader of these shadow creatures, and
his name is Dune, and he bears a startling resemblance
to somebody from Rerea's past.

Speaker 1 (03:54:07):
Her father done done, dunk Okay, So and restate that
for just THO, just to make sure we're all on
the same page here real quick.

Speaker 2 (03:54:16):
So re Re sureI and Okoye they go to the
well spring where Doctor Strange sent them. A bunch of
shadow creatures are coming out of it. They fight the
shadow creatures. They go back, they're going to close the
well spring. They meet the leader of the shadow creatures
versus be keeping this wallstring open, and it's her biological father. Okay,
but the reason never met before.

Speaker 1 (03:54:33):
I don't think this is a shadow creature. Well, let
me tell you it's not. Okay, So read never met
with magic. I didn't know Who's a trick?

Speaker 2 (03:54:44):
He died before she was born?

Speaker 3 (03:54:45):
Got it?

Speaker 2 (03:54:46):
Jkjkjkjkg here's a redcon. Oh no, really, he faked his
death to join the Ten Ring. Is this crime organization
a hell of before one day?

Speaker 1 (03:54:59):
Then? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:55:00):
So while he was in their ranks, he harnessed the
ability to basically become an earth bender, and that's what
he uses to open and close the well spring. They fight,
re Re reveals that she's his daughter. He's like, I
don't have a daughter. What are you talking about?

Speaker 5 (03:55:19):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (03:55:20):
They are taken down basically by Dune and all of
his following, and as RhE Rey's lying, they're all sad
and stuff. Natalie the Ai reminds RhE Rey like Hey,
this here's a convenient plot point. You were given pim
particles as a thank you gift by Nadia the little
baby new wasp, So why don't you use that? Okay,

(03:55:42):
so she does and she closes.

Speaker 1 (03:55:44):
The well spring. Hooraya.

Speaker 2 (03:55:48):
The wellspring is also magic, So while rie Rey is
closing it, she sees the truth of what actually happened.

Speaker 1 (03:55:55):
What is the truth.

Speaker 2 (03:55:56):
The truth of what actually happened is before ru was born,
her father was used as a test subject to make
money to support his wife an unborn child. Really, this
is how he basically got these earthbender abilities, and the
test subjects of this experiment were kind of proving to
not have the ability that the Ten Rings wanted them
to have. Her father was going to be killed, but

(03:56:16):
he uses his ability to escape and goes into hiding,
and then he becomes a crime lord. She then is
able to revisit another memory with her stepfather, Gary the
Good where he's telling her about Harriet Tubman and she
states that Harriet Tubman was never afraid and he tells her, oh,
I bet she was, baby girl, I'm sure she was.

(03:56:38):
So when she comes back through the well spring with
a she has a new found power, and it's an
ability to anticipate action, so she basically gets staredouble powers okay,
and she's able to use it to take down Doune,
her father and the Ten Rings and close the well
spring and everything's okay and will Com is saved. So

(03:57:01):
now she has an actual superpower. She's not just an
iron Man analog, which I appreciate. The choice to give
very different power feels a little late in the day
to have this happen. Her heroics in closing the wallspring
and saving the Wakandans from these shadow people are celebrated,
and she has given the Circlet of Bastat. It's basically
a little crown. It is apparently the highest honor of Wakanda,

(03:57:25):
and Shuri asserts that there is always a place for
Rere in Wakanda if she wants it. So that's a
great open door, especially when we if you're creating this,
you probably know again the movie's coming, Okay, I'm gonna
pick it up off after the next ring.

Speaker 1 (03:57:45):
Hello, Hello Ashlely, Hi, Yeah, we got disconnected somehow. I
don't know, somebody named Kevin. Give in there something, you know.
I just want to I just realized I never told
sir that her dad was still alive? Surey or re
read excuse me giving him too confused? They both have

(03:58:07):
dead dads. It's okay, they both have I mean Sherry
can talk to her dead dad and the panther dimension
any type. She's fine, that's true. Actually, maybe her dad
is actually out and about in the crime lord and
I did not know. I knew. What would you think
would be a good gift for a young woman of
her ilk.

Speaker 2 (03:58:27):
To say sorry, I didn't tell you your dead dad
was that.

Speaker 1 (03:58:30):
It would be appropriate gift. I was thinking a gift
card to Arby's.

Speaker 2 (03:58:33):
Oh, I mean an edible arrangement.

Speaker 1 (03:58:35):
Probably you think like an edible rose, a little orange thing,
lord yellow thing over here exactly.

Speaker 2 (03:58:42):
Yeah, but make sure you get one of the more expensive,
like spend least one hundred dollars on it.

Speaker 1 (03:58:46):
I was thinking more like twenty.

Speaker 2 (03:58:48):
I don't even think you can get an edible arrange
for twad dollars.

Speaker 1 (03:58:51):
Well, I mean, Glia keeps me on a tight perse
and a budget now that we're saving for possible children spoilers.
So I just want to say that, yeah, I candfull
of that. You sure give car doobs won't work.

Speaker 2 (03:59:05):
I mean us, He's probably fine.

Speaker 1 (03:59:07):
Okay, that's true. If it goes bad, I will tell
her that this was your ideas fifteen.

Speaker 2 (03:59:12):
She's probably hungry.

Speaker 1 (03:59:13):
Goodbye.

Speaker 3 (03:59:14):
Click.

Speaker 1 (03:59:16):
So, by the way, I just want to say to
the listeners, we need to click sound effect click.

Speaker 2 (03:59:20):
We really do send us. You're saying click, No.

Speaker 1 (03:59:24):
Don't do that. I don't want to go thro those emails. Okay,
all right? What happened to rerenixt next.

Speaker 2 (03:59:34):
High school? Oh boy near where she lived in Chicago,
Cole's Academichigh School.

Speaker 1 (03:59:39):
We's gotten up to a lot of stuff in this
in this six years of existence, is attacked by a dragon. Oh,
of course that happens.

Speaker 2 (03:59:46):
Bad things happen, people die. The government of these United
States and act the Underage Superhero Welfare Act, also known
as the Kamala Law because of Kamala Kon, which basically
lost teenage vigilantism. Re Re is initially going to continue
being a superhero a lot of the teen superheroes do,

(04:00:06):
but she's worried that her mother will be held accountable,
so she forces herself into retirement as Ironheart.

Speaker 1 (04:00:13):
End of lesson. Great job, just kidding.

Speaker 2 (04:00:18):
Some ais and smart cars start to go haywire. Natalie
yells at re reintil she puts the suit back on.
She eventually helps. She vows this is the last time
she'll be Ironheart. She is able to provide security through
the Champions by adding the Natalie AI to all of
their tech, exactly kind of like the Jarvis AI does

(04:00:39):
for the Avengers. They eventually all do work together. They
collab with the X Men. They reveal an evil AI
called Cradle. Kamala's law is no longer enforced because the
teenage superheroes save the day and Rere and the Champions
are once again free to carry on with their super heroics.

(04:00:59):
This is actually a storyline I could see some version
of coming across the MCU once we establish either the
Young Avengers, the New Avengers, whatever this young new team
is going to be, which is the only reason why
I bring it up. It's one of the more recent
Champions stories. Even though re Rey is not super zeer active,
I am not a since Spiderman no more put to
bed the idea that we're going to pretend fake that
a superhero quits being a superhero, because in the world

(04:01:21):
of Marvel, why would you fake being a superhero. It's
like the coolest thing you can do and you're basically unkillable.
So there, that is the end if you're a lesson
on Rerey Williams aka Ironheart, cause we're not going to
go into anything that's currently being published.

Speaker 1 (04:01:35):
Yeah, of course not. Yeah, and we haven't seen the movie.

Speaker 2 (04:01:38):
And we haven't seen the movie.

Speaker 3 (04:01:39):
Great.

Speaker 1 (04:01:39):
Now it's time to move into the recommended reading, where
if you go over to geek history lesson dot com
slash recommended Reading, you can find a full list every
single Gee Hitch lesson we've ever done, and you can
find perfect suggestions here suggested by Professor Ashley about what
you should read if you want to catch up on
Reary Williams. So Ashley, what should they read?

Speaker 2 (04:01:58):
The first thing I'm going to recommend is Invincible iron
Man Volume two colon iron Heart. This is her first
standalone series where she is more than just two pages
an issue as a backup to a Tony Starks story.
This is Brian Michael bendis his initial story bringing her
out in the world. This is when she declares self
Queen of Latviia. This is her building the Natalie Ai

(04:02:22):
as well. I am also going to recommend Infamous Iron
Man Volume one. This is where doctor Doom is in
the Iron Man armor and re Re stands against him.
This is where she also begins dipping her toe and
what it means to play on an international scale in
terms of diplomatics.

Speaker 1 (04:02:39):
And whether or not Infinite iron Man's really good.

Speaker 2 (04:02:42):
Whether or not villains are really villains. This is a
pretty Ben Grimm heavy volume. I will say so if
you are a Fantastic four A fan, this is a
great volume if that is a good intro for you,
And then I am also gonna lastly recommend Ironheart volume one.
This is the eviewing series. This is my favorite version
of Ruby Williams. I think she really comes in her

(04:03:02):
own and develops her own voice. I think they may
take plot from some of the other stories and some
of the Champion stuff, but I think this is where
the character we are going to see on the screen
comes from. And then I'll probably throw a Champions Volume
one in there as well, because folks love them Champions.

Speaker 1 (04:03:18):
Sure, why not?

Speaker 2 (04:03:18):
That's your recommended reading.

Speaker 1 (04:03:20):
Cool. Now it's time to move into the honor roll.
Everybody with you, Lovely, go over to Apple Podcasts and
leave us a five star review. We'll read whatever you
write live on the air. Ashley, who is joining the
Honor Roll this week?

Speaker 2 (04:03:35):
That's a great question. So we have two people joining today.
The first is Who Nuts?

Speaker 1 (04:03:39):
Twenty? Who Nuts?

Speaker 2 (04:03:41):
Who says class is in session? What a great concept
and execution. Just recently found this podcast and I've already
listened to so many episodes, only one problem. Where is
my Roger Moore Bond episode? He's my favorite? Jason, where's
the Rosmore Bond episode?

Speaker 1 (04:03:56):
Yeah, you know, I'm gonna be honest with you. Who's Nuts?

Speaker 2 (04:04:02):
It could be Honts, I don't now, but Who Nuts
is funnier.

Speaker 1 (04:04:05):
I'm not a huge fan of that era, and we
didn't We didn't know if we were gonna have enough
time to do it or not. Then they announced the movie.
We didn't have enough time to do it. So maybe
when the next one comes out.

Speaker 2 (04:04:17):
Yeah, I do know who we would invite as a guess,
I will say.

Speaker 1 (04:04:19):
Okay, all right, but thank you for the five star
for you?

Speaker 2 (04:04:25):
And Who Nuts is also joined by Jay Rivera, who
says this in all caps. I'm going to lean back
and yell it my favorite podcast. Thank you so much
information in such a short time. But if you listen,
well you will gain so much knowledge about a character
you just heard about in the episode. Lol the doctor
strange impression too, crying emoji faces.

Speaker 1 (04:04:45):
Well, thank you, thank you so Jay Rivera and.

Speaker 2 (04:04:49):
Who Nuts twenty, thank you so much for your five
star reviews. Welcome into the teacher's Lounge, Jason. What's going
on in each day?

Speaker 1 (04:04:55):
Well, luckily we are joined by the amazing Professor Will
hunting Rate from M I T. And he is going
to teach us how to grow apples.

Speaker 2 (04:05:04):
Not poetry.

Speaker 1 (04:05:05):
No poetry, that's poetry.

Speaker 2 (04:05:08):
I don't know. I want to know.

Speaker 1 (04:05:09):
That's dead post society is. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:05:11):
I haven't seen that either.

Speaker 1 (04:05:12):
Apples.

Speaker 2 (04:05:13):
Does he grow apples? Is that a thing?

Speaker 1 (04:05:15):
No? But there's a whole scene in that movie about apples.

Speaker 2 (04:05:17):
I've never seen it.

Speaker 1 (04:05:19):
Applesaw GE's wrote the joke from day said of Bob
you know strip back. Yeah there you go. All right,
Thank you so much for subscribing and downloading this podcast.
You know, if you liked this episode, please suggest that
to your friends is the easiest way for our podcast
to grow. Ashley where and they suggest future lessons on

(04:05:40):
our social media.

Speaker 2 (04:05:41):
You can do that at geek History Lesson dot com,
Facebook dot com, slash geek History Lesson on Twitter at
GHL podcast that's actually the best place, or on Instagram
at geek History Lesson.

Speaker 1 (04:05:52):
You can follow Ashley on Instagram and Twitter at Ashley V. Robinson.
And is that also your TikTok?

Speaker 2 (04:05:58):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (04:05:59):
Yeah, also on TikTok you can follow me on Instagram
and Twitter at Jah and j W I I N
And I'm also squatting on TikTok at geek history so
at John wasn't available, so I took it. Hmmm, so
mad about that. And come on over to patreon dot
com slash jah and for some more podcasts. Now where to.

Speaker 3 (04:06:19):
Stick around?

Speaker 1 (04:06:20):
Hashtag stick around?

Speaker 3 (04:06:21):
Baby?

Speaker 1 (04:06:23):
What were we talking about?

Speaker 5 (04:06:24):
Ashley?

Speaker 2 (04:06:25):
So I want to ask you what would you like
to see Reirey Williams Dube host Wakonda Forever? Because uh
Reachar's assistant Diego pointed this out since the MCU already
did the dynamic team up of Tony Stark and Spider Man,
who do you think they're gonna team re rewit as
a character?

Speaker 1 (04:06:44):
Oh interesting?

Speaker 2 (04:06:45):
I thought that was a really interesting question.

Speaker 1 (04:06:47):
Interesting, And you know my gut would have said doctor Strange,
but he's already got America Chavez. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:06:52):
Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (04:06:54):
You know, I never noticed that until our researches in
Diego brought this up, that there is sort of a
young mentor we have hot with the two Hawkeyes going
on in the MCU.

Speaker 2 (04:07:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:07:03):
Man, that's a good question. Who is she going to
team up with?

Speaker 2 (04:07:07):
I mean, the lazy answer is going to be Shrry.

Speaker 1 (04:07:10):
Yeah, that is the lazy answer, you know, I mean,
war Machine seems like a pretty obvious.

Speaker 2 (04:07:18):
Choice because Dominique Thorne, who is playing her, is is
quite a bit younger.

Speaker 1 (04:07:23):
Another interesting choice would be that maybe Rear is an
excellent stand in for spot for Mary Jane and he
she teams up with Spider Man.

Speaker 2 (04:07:30):
Oh that's interesting because obviously mj doesn't seem like she's
going to be much in the picture. Or they'll find
a way to bring her back. Yeah, yeah, one more dang,
who do you think?

Speaker 1 (04:07:41):
What do you what do you think they're gonna drop her?
I mean they're obviously gonna drop her Young Adventures.

Speaker 2 (04:07:45):
Yeah, I think that's pretty obvious. I would like to
see her mentored by I would say Sam or Bucky
because we're used to the Captain America iron man kind
of right would be a good choice. I think Sam
is more that character, But I don't know if Marvel
is gonna think, oh, having a black man mentor a
young black woman is two on the nose. So maybe

(04:08:06):
they would give it to and maybe they'll have Sam
mentor Yolena or something like. I don't know, but because
Yolena and Bucky are on the Thunderbolts together, I could
see re Rea and Sam kind of coming together in
a mentor mentee relationship. And I would really like to
see that because it would be pretty obvious for it
to be Roadie. And I'm just not sure what I

(04:08:28):
think they're doing with Armor Wars anymore.

Speaker 1 (04:08:31):
I don't think they know what they're doing with arms. Oh,
this episode's going to age very well. Yeah, so we'll
see awesome. Great, Well, everybody out there, thank you so
much for listening. This has been a great geek history lesson.
Professor actually did an excellent job. Thank you so much
for listening. I am Jason uh does not teach it
mit in them.

Speaker 2 (04:08:50):
I am actually Victoria Robinson.

Speaker 1 (04:08:52):
Professor Ashley, will you please close out this podcast?

Speaker 2 (04:08:54):
Class is now dismissed

Speaker 1 (04:09:01):
In

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