2034 Demon House of Gary, IN / Steve Asher Interview

Jerry and Tracy discuss the infamous demon house of Gary, Indiana and talk to author Steve e Asher who wrote the book Hauntings of the Kentucky State Penitentiary.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, He'llbilly Nation. I hope everyone here in the States
have had a great fortu July. Hope you had a great,
safe time celebrating our great nations two hundred and forty
ninth year of independence. Now the question is does everybody

(00:22):
still have their fingers? No fires? What about barbecue disasters?
If not, good, we survived. I was not able to
celebrate with my family this year because I am currently
out of state from my job taking care of business,
but I did find some time to make sure I

(00:44):
got an episode out this week. So it's just me
and my laptop in the hotel room, and I hope
sound quality is good. If not, I do apologize. Just
a quick update on our hill Billy Queen, Miss Tracy.
She has recently undergone eye surgery. The surgery was of
success and she is currently recovering but doing very well.

(01:09):
So Tracy, if you're listening, quit recoveries. We're praying for you,
and the imitation is always open for you to come on.
The mite is always on for you. So I want
to try something different. How about some personal ghost stories.
As some of you know, my wife and I had
are currently doing some full renovation on a home that

(01:31):
came up to property we bought, I mean full renovation.
We tore the inside of the house down all the
way to the stoods. I mean it is gone, all
of it. Everything was ripped out, and now we are
rebuilding it. And as we all know what happens when
you renovate the old house, our house appears to be

(01:53):
no difference. We have woken something up now. I don't
know fully what happened in this house before we got it.
I know there was an older couple in the house.
Everyone tells us how beautiful that property used to be.
It was very well taken care of. Well, they did

(02:14):
die in their passway, but not in the house. We
know that for a fact. And when they died, the
house went to the children. This seems to be where
everything fell apart. The house was definitely not taken care of,
and it soon became a shell of itself. There was
heavy drug use and alcohol abuse, and we found heavy

(02:37):
evidence of both in and outside the house. When we
started cleaning up and clearing out the bedrooms, two of
the five bedrooms were clearly kids rooms. We started moving
out furniture and trash, and when we started stripping the
beds down, in both rooms. Those children, those poor children,

(03:01):
had knives hiding under their pillows. How bad does it
have to be for children to hide weapons to protect
themselves in their own home. So this was not a
happy home, not even close. I may never truly know
what happened within that house, but we do know it

(03:23):
left a mart shortly after starting demo. The house just
had a heavy feeling, a feeling of dread and unhappiness,
and that's all it was at first. Then we started
a demo in the master bedroom. The air was so
incredibly heavy. You just felt so uneasy in there. I

(03:49):
honestly thought it was just from the condition of the room,
with so much trash and bugged and darkness. I just
figured my brain was taken what I saw and transformed
it into what I felt. Well, as time went along
and the demo was complete, the atmosphere got better, lighter. Now,
during this whole time, we're living out of the r

(04:11):
V because we had no power or lights in the house,
so we were never there after dark. Well, we finally
got the mash to bedroom completely finished and power ray
into it. This room, y'all, it's just massive. We were
able to put our bedroom stuff in half our living room.
Stuff in this master bedroom and that's where we lived,

(04:36):
so now we're there at night. That's when we started
hearing footsteps. It was always in the back of the
house where the kids rooms are. Trust me, we are
no strangers that go us in our house. Our other
home is heavily haunted. But that's a whole another story

(04:56):
for another episode. So we ignored the footsteps and just
simply said, Okay, someone is just curious and just wanted
to check things out. And that's all that was for
a few months, just footsteps. Then my wife started hearing
two ladies talking in the same area over by the
kids rooms. She couldn't make out what they were saying,
but she could hear them. Then she came back to

(05:17):
me again a few weeks later saying she heard them again. Now,
my wife, she's not a believer in the paranormal. How
she can say that after aaron think we've experienced in
two homes, I have no idea. But when she comes
to me freaked out, I do tend to listen. I
set some cameras up back there, but I was not

(05:39):
able to catch anything. Oh and by the way, this
is our recent stuff. This is not years ago. This
is within the last six months, you know, with the
footsteps and the last two months with the talking, So
this is all pretty recent stuff. About the same time
the voice had started, my tools will start missing.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's kind of like in the movies. You know, you
put a tool down, turn around and do something else,
turn around to grab that tool, and it's gone. Same
thing would happen to me. Let's say I'm hammering something.
I'll put my hammer down, retove to grab another nail,
go to grab my hammer, and the hammer's gone. I
will look everywhere for that stupid hammer, and I would

(06:26):
always find it, like in the next room over, or
in the studio or in the bathroom. It was never
in the same room where it was missing from. I
would just laugh and say, look, that was a good Joe,
but I'm trying to make this house beautiful again, and
if you keep slowing me down, we're never going to

(06:48):
get this done. And normally what I would say that
it would stop for about two days and then it
would start all up again. They're just three weeks ago,
about the middle of jewe I was in our first
living room watching TV. We had just finished up one
of the living rooms just good enough for we can
move out of the bedroom. Rebecca was outside smoking. She

(07:11):
came running in the house, slamming the door behind her.
She walked very quickly to my side. Her eyes were
the side of saucers, and she's sitting there, rubbing her arms,
trying to rub the goosebumps away. Something serious had freaked
her out so bad that every hair on her arms

(07:31):
were standing straight up. I mean you could see every
individual hair, and the bump up underneath of the were
trying to stand up so tall. She this one was.
This woman was freaked out. She told me she was
on the front deck and smoking when she saw a

(07:53):
lady in a white nightie walk out from behind the house,
across the pathway that leads to the driveway, and up
the hill towards the woods. She said, when the lady
got halfway up the hill, she just.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Faded.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
This had really freaked her out. So I did what
every husband would do. I grabbed my gun. I grabbed
my dog, and to make sure everything was clear, I
didn't see anything unnatural, but Lucy, our dog, she was
dead focused on those woods. After some time, I managed

(08:33):
to get her to focus off the woods. And get
her back into the house. She stood guard in front
of that door the entire night. I don't know what
she saw or if she saw something or was feeding
out of Rebecca's emotions, but she would not come to bed.

(08:53):
Her job that night was to guard that door, and
two that sun came up, she did not leave. That
dog meant business. She was on guard. N Fast forward
about a week. We were in bed sleeping. It was

(09:15):
probably around three three point thirty in the morning, and
I was walking up with pounding ita within the house.
We're on the house like someone wants just slapping the walls. Now,
I thought I'd dreamed it, but when I leaned up
and looked at our dog Lucy, she had heard it too,
and she was looking at the bedroom door. Rebecca never

(09:37):
heard it, but that girl could sleep during a hurricane
with an earthquake ending the world. So again I grabbed
my pistol and my dog. The first thing, idea was
checked all the outside cameras and hey, nothing. So I
walked through the house looking for anything out of place,
but everything was as it should have been. So I

(10:01):
started walking back to the bedroom and that's when I
know is the light was on in my recording studio,
which I never turn on even when I'm working in there.
I don't turn the light on because there's so much
natural sunlight that comes through. Now, I have several three
D printers in that studio, and I have rows and

(10:24):
rows of fridging filament that is material used for the printers.
I walk in and I find the entire bottom shelf
of filament on the flour. The shelves were intact and
nothing was broken. What makes it even harder for all
of them to fall off is I have the shelves

(10:46):
and sections. I can fit five rolls of filament, and
then there's a separation, and then another five rolls. This
goes on for about four sections, and I do that
for this very reason, so the whole row doesn't spill,
just a few. So I'm sitting there looking at a

(11:09):
whole row on the floor. I don't know what to think.
I have had two situations where I have heard my
name call by a female while sleeping. Again, my wife
is next to me and still asleep. About two days
before the office incident, we were just laying down for bed.

(11:32):
Our master bathroom is like ten feet from the side
of my bed, so We're just laying down and I
clearly hear a man clear his throat from inside the bathroom.
So again I grab my pistol and I start searching
the bathroom. Once a bathroom's clear, I check the walk
and calls it. That ends the bathroom nothing nobody. Keep

(11:58):
in mind, most of this within the last two months,
and the footsteps just a simple six months ago. So
I'm curious, what would you do if this was you
and your house? I would love to hear and read
your responses. If you're in the Facebook page, post it

(12:19):
in there, let me know what you think. What would
you do, how would you feel? Would you be scared?
Would you love it? We'll just talk to your own
TV show because of it. I will give more updates
as things tend to happen, and perhaps on another episode
I will talk about our other home that we still own.

(12:41):
This house is notorious and known for being haunted. People
have had their sheets ripped off of them, why they slept,
People have been slept, people have been choked, people have
had their thighs rubbed, soul many stories on this house.

(13:02):
We lived in it for nearly shrew I think twenty years,
so we have a lot of stories, but we'll save
that for another episode. And speaking of episodes, on this episode,
Jerry and Tracy discussed the infamous Demon House of Gary,
Indiana in a talk to the author and a good

(13:23):
friend of mine, Steve Asher, who wrote the book Haunchings
of the Kentucky State Benedicary. Now go enjoy the show
and have yourself a fantastic week. Enjoy.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
Hi, this is Jeff from the Great State of Pennsylvania,
and you've tuned into hillbilly horror stories with Jerry and Tracy.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
And take it from this Yankee. After just one episode
of this show, you'll be talking with.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
A twang in your voice and some Southern hospitality deep
in your soul. So sit back, turn off the lights,
and enjoy the.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Story taken away.

Speaker 5 (14:01):
Guys, you domb fell right down the ramp and wholesome
reality is questionaball try, but you just can't let it.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Goldie's do right here.

Speaker 6 (14:18):
Put it on the show with pam normal over low,
with Southern hospitality.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Haunt and murder may have hit one.

Speaker 6 (14:25):
Agustin inmmortality, locations with a dark past, hits to read
that comes to light, pure village with a nack pull
every thing.

Speaker 7 (14:32):
He goes on big night, hope, but than.

Speaker 6 (14:34):
You to be my delty do what have you turned off?

Speaker 2 (14:36):
The light?

Speaker 6 (14:37):
Mixing in a little comedy to make sure that Affens
is just right.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
Hey, we'll go to a new billy horror story.

Speaker 6 (14:45):
Now here's your home, Shermy his Breath, Paul Tender's domns,
and sometimes the tech Preddy, but.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
Never the ferrets Tracy's usual. We want to thank all
of our military and civil servants all over the world,
no matter which country you represent, as long as you're
one of the good guys, we just want to say
thank you for what you do for us every single day.
To the men and women and service animals out there.

Speaker 7 (15:14):
Continue prayers for you guys. Thank you for keeping us safe.
Always always always praying for you all. Thank you for
all you guys do for us.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Tracy, it's been another one of those weeks where we've
talked to a lot of people that are struggling going
through some things. We just we want to make sure
everybody realizes that the group is a safe place. I've
seen a couple of people post because they felt like
there was no other place that they could post with

(15:44):
whatever situation they had going on and I'm glad that
people feel that way. I just want to make sure
that everybody realizes that it is a safe place. Obviously,
you can contact myself with Tracy or you can you know,
if you need a professional service or a professional services
out there obviously places like Betterhelp who's been sponsors on
the show in the past, and Tracy what else could

(16:06):
they do?

Speaker 7 (16:07):
You can call nine eighty eight the crisis hotline. You
can also text is seven four one seven four to one.
We love you guys, and just reach out to us, please.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
All right, Welcome to episode thirty nine of Hillbilly Horror Stories.
It's hard to remember which number. I can't believe we're
almost a forty.

Speaker 7 (16:25):
I know, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
I got something special plan for episode forty. Not really,
not really, it's not gonna be any special, but thirty nine.
Let's talk about episode thirty nine, because I think this
is probably the most fascinating, interesting story that I've ever
read up on. And I'm not just talking about for
the show, I mean in general, out of every story
I've ever seen on the paranormal this one I found

(16:47):
the most fascinating, awesome. Can wait to hear it and obviously.
My name is Jerry and I'm joined by my lovely
wife Tracy.

Speaker 7 (16:54):
Thank you for saying lovely.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
I have to it says it in the promo out place.

Speaker 7 (17:00):
Well, hi everybody. We just finished having our big week
of Kentucky Derby here, so the race is over. We
didn't win, but it's always a good time in Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, it's definitely a two weeks of lead up for
a two minute race here. It's always it's amazing to
me how much gets put into a two minute race.

Speaker 7 (17:19):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Though.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
We want to have a couple of shoutouts. We sometimes
we do them at the end, sometimes we do them
at the beginning, but we actually have a bunch of them.
We're going to breeze through them, but we want to
start off by give them a big shout outs for
all of our military and civil service people across the world.
Thank you guys for protecting us.

Speaker 7 (17:37):
Yes, thank you so much. I feel like you don't
get praised enough as it is, but we really, we
really do appreciate you all putting your lives on the
line for us and protecting us, and we always have
a special prayer for you every night.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Absolutely, And we'll actually tie some of that in a
little bit later and I'll tell you when we get
to that point. But some of the other shoutouts I
want to start off with, I got one special one.
This one comes with a little bit of requests. Chelsea
and Daniel Anaya out in California. They're going through a
really tough emotional time right now, and if everybody could
send their special thoughts and their heartfelt prayers and positive

(18:14):
vibes out their way, I'm sure they would greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 7 (18:17):
We got you, girl.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
I want to say hi to Caitlin in Australia, but
not to Dana league Leeson. I'm not saying how to Dana.
I'm only saying hi to Caitlyn. Why she'll understand, Oh you,
Dana's greedy. Dana wants to be mentioned every show. So
she got mentioned. It just probably wouldn't the way she needed.

(18:38):
And Ninja farted. What can you not smell that?

Speaker 7 (18:42):
No, don't say that does have my mouth open world
wide laughing. That's discussing.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
God.

Speaker 7 (18:47):
I still love you, Ninja.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I think that dog's been eating skunk and burnt hair
or something.

Speaker 7 (18:53):
That's gross.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
A couple of other shout outs. Let's go through real quick.
Matthew Henley, he's from Hattiesburg, Mississippi for home of Brett Farv. No,
that's at least where he played college. I don't know
where he's from. Here's a little tidbit for you, Matthew.
Besides you guys coming into Commonwealth and beating my cats
last year, that was actually like four days after my surgery.

(19:16):
I had to endure that, So thank you guys for that.
But I actually saw Brett Faarr play when he played
with Southern Mississippi. I saw him beat the University of
Louisville on a hill mary last second past night. That
bounced off a U of L player's helmet into the
Southern miss player's.

Speaker 7 (19:33):
Hand, perfect, and he ran in for a touchdown perfect.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
So how awesome is that?

Speaker 7 (19:38):
So that made up for you beating us.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
It did not make up for that, but anyway, it's
least a fond memory. We got David Crabtree. He's up
in Monroe, Michigan. Tyler Acox from Texas. Tyler actually sent
us a really nice email talking about he's a security
guard and he listens to us to help the night
go by. He's a nighttime security.

Speaker 7 (19:59):
Guard kend of Boring. Well, thank you for listening, Tyler, and.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
I'm probably gonna butcher this name. But Samantha Jica, she's
our Tokyo listener, not the only Tokyo listener, but she's
the only one that's written us. Kelly Junk from the Netherlands. Sam.
I think it's Macusa from New Jersey. Matt Jordan. He's
also from Australia. This is funny because Matt's the second

(20:26):
person from Australia to write us that drives one of
these big convoy trains. It's like it's like a train,
but it's tractor trailers. They're all putting, they're all connected together,
so it's yeah, it's like it's like trucks made like
a train would be, so instead of being on tracks,
they just drive them, but they're all connected to each other.

Speaker 7 (20:46):
Oh my gosh, I forget when I see a piggyback.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
Just one, like I said, So he's like the second
person from Australia that does that. The other young lady,
her name is escaped, but she wrote us a while back.
I'm sorry I forgot your name because I'm hoping you're
still listening. Then we've got Kaylee Ward from Armarello, Texas,
and you want to.

Speaker 7 (21:08):
Sing some Armailla by morning. There you go up from
sant Tone and then you took.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
Your real name off your Twitter, so I can't remember
what it is. I feel bad, But Arkansas Gray, you
know who you are out there. You got all the
UFL jokes, but he also is a twenty four year
combat veteran. Oh, thank you sir, So you get a
special thing. And just because you've got so much military
experience and you fought for us, you can actually insult

(21:36):
me anyway you want, and I'll just take it and
still have the utmost respect for you.

Speaker 7 (21:39):
Absolutely, thank you for your service.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
We've had a bunch of people actually order T shirts
and make donations to the show, and I decided I
want to give a shout out to them. So you
won't know who bought a T shirt and who made
a donation, but all these people support the show, So
I want to give a big shout out to Shane Hoffman,
Crystal Harris, Mike Solzer, Brett Swinson, Lisa Goleman, Zach Hawkins,

(22:03):
Molly Frius, and Daniel Sewell.

Speaker 7 (22:05):
Thank you for jumping out guys rock.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
You heard Jeffrey fishback what did the actual intro of
the show up in Pennsylvania. Thank you for that, Jeff
We greatly appreciated. And he actually sent us a tweet
saying he's checking out the guys from Don't Break the
Olth podcast because you've heard him on the show. I'm
gonna give a special shout out to Kevin Cummings. Kevin

(22:29):
actually works at the Kentucky State Penitentiary and he actually
hooked us up with Stevie Asher and Steve actually wrote
a book called Hauntings of the Kentucky State Penitentiary. You
guys can get that on Amazon or anywhere else do
you buy books. He sent us an autograph copy of it.
Really cool. Also send us like a little metal that

(22:49):
you can, you know, wear around your neck or something
almost like a dog tag, but it says death Row
on it, which is really cool.

Speaker 7 (22:55):
But that's cool though.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
I'm gonna wear it because you are. I've been on
death rows for the last ten years.

Speaker 7 (23:01):
What see how he trace me? Y'all terrible, But.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
We're actually going to interview Steve on the second half
of the show, so that's going to be really cool.
So I thought it'd be cool, and that ties into
the civil service, because once again Kevin is actually a
corrections officer, fits right into the civil service. And Steve
used to be and now he's an author, but he
put over twenty years in so we'll get to hear
from Steve about his book. And I know we posted
something on Facebook about the Kentucky Penitentiary, probably three or

(23:33):
four weeks ago.

Speaker 7 (23:34):
I don't know, but I think he stretched that word out,
is that penitentiary. It was like Jim Carrey, I the
fussaliity like that. That's cool though, but the reality of
it is, this is an awesome show. We wanted to
get that out of the way because I want to
focus on on the Gary Demon House. Now, you guys, Tracy,

(23:57):
I'm sure you're unfamiliar with it, as you are most
of the stories we do. But this is the house
that Zach Beggin's actually purchased and then had torn down,
and he's doing a documentary on it that's supposed to
be in post production and it should be out later
this year. Well, I like how you threw me under

(24:20):
the bus, but I.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Think everybody here is aware that you know nothing about
the topics before we start. Oh, well, can you tell
me honestly that we don't sit down at these microphones
and most times you don't say, what's this week's show about?
Did you not just do that?

Speaker 7 (24:36):
Okay, I did, I did it. I ad met it.
So he must have a lot of money just to
buy a house and then to burn it down or
turn it down.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
It didn't look like much of a house. I don't
think it cost a whole.

Speaker 7 (24:47):
Lot of money. It's probably worth it.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
And it's in Gary, Indiana and Gary, Indiana. I went
to Gary probably fifteen years ago, and there was a
sign when you came into Gary that said, welcome to Gary, Indiana,
murder capital the United States, because at the time they
actually were per capita, they had more murders than anybody
even over Detroit. And some people chipped in that were

(25:11):
disgusted by that. They chipped in and bought the sign,
being sarcastic, just to try to coax the leaders there
to say, look, do something about that.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
This is the.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
City didn't actually put it. But everything in Gary. You
see pictures of Detroit right now with everything being boarded up,
and but that's kind of the way it was it's
like the businesses were boarded up because they were closed,
and if they were opened, they had bars on every
window and every door. And we played Michael Jackson. I'll
tell you about this one. We're at the beginning. We

(25:43):
played Michael Jackson at the beginning of the show. That's
a song called Ben from the early seventies.

Speaker 7 (25:50):
Is John Mellencamp from there?

Speaker 3 (25:51):
No, John Mellencamp is from uh Seymour, Indiana. Oh okay,
so with with Michael Jackson. The reason I chose that
song is because one Michael Jackson is from Gary, Indiana. Yes,
so he is their most famous resident. But also that song,
unless you're a real horror movie buff, you probably won't
know that was. There was a movie came out called

(26:13):
Willard about a boy in a rat and it was
a horror movie in like seventy one. Well, this movie
was a sequel to Willard called Ben, and they had
Michael Jackson to the soundtrack, or at least he did.
He did the theme song. He didn't do the whole
sound track.

Speaker 7 (26:26):
He was probably like, was he like a little kid, Yeah,
he was.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Young and he's probably eleven and twelve something.

Speaker 7 (26:30):
They still sounded like a girl.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, like he did when he died. He still sounded
like a girl.

Speaker 7 (26:36):
Then, oh well, yeah, I guess.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
But so we chose that song because I thought it
was cool, because not only was it Michael Jackson, but
he actually did do a song to a horror movie
that I thought would tian. So that's why we chose
that song rather than beat it or what about thriller
Billy Jeane or thriller? Yeah, that thriller probably would have
worked too, But see he didn't contribute to the show,
or we probably would have went that way. I would
have probably chose thriller.

Speaker 7 (26:57):
Well, I mean, why would you not? You chose a
song I'm even heard of?

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Well, and no what else has heard of it either?
So I thought it was the true Michael Jackson. Fans
have heard that song, oh trust me. It was a
number one hit.

Speaker 7 (27:08):
Oh okay, and it was on his he did.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Fine, I can't win. Let's just shut this whole damn
thing down. We'll talk to you next week, all right,
Come on with it now, just over a chewing on
electrical cord. It's going to be like that cat from
Oh my Gosh, Christmas Vacation.

Speaker 7 (27:25):
N Joe, what are you chewing on.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Get over here, and you know how we are that
none that's going to get edited out, so just deal
with it. Okay, let's jump into this story because this
is awesome. The Gary Demon House. So we started. All
this started in November of twenty eleven. LaToya Amons, her mother,
Rosa Campbell, and three children ages twelve, nine and seven

(27:48):
at the time, moved into a rental house on Carolina Street.
Obviously that's in Gary, Indiana now. According to the Indianapolis
Star that did a huge story on this back when
all this was going on, the first thing that the
amins noticed is that there was an odd I guess

(28:08):
kind of amityville. Like there were like several these huge
horse flies you know, black flies, Oh yeah, that were
gathering on the inside. They had like a big screened
in porch and they were gathering on the inside and
swarming in there, and it was like December and it
was cold outside.

Speaker 7 (28:23):
Oh gosh.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
Just keep in mind if you don't know where Gary,
Indiana is. Gary is I'm not going to say a
suburb of Chicago because it's a little further away to
be a suburb, But you can get to Chicago from
Gary in like twenty minutes. Yeah, it's really close. So
it's the upper part of Indiana. It's probably about I
guess it's Indianapolis and Chicago. It's not really right in

(28:46):
the middle. It's closed Chicago, but it it kind of
gives you an idea. It's past Indianapolis, not quite Chicago.
And so in December typically it's going to be code
as hell. And to have all these flies swarming on
an inside screen poor. And when I say screened, it
wasn't glass screened, it was actual screen. So it was
just as cold on the porch as it was outside.

(29:06):
So that's the first thing that you notice. And Rosa Campbell,
which was the miss Amans's mom, she said, we kept
killing them and just kept killing them, and they just
kept coming back. And then Rosa and LaToya Amens said
that after midnight they would start to hear footsteps coming
up from the basement stairs and they could hear the

(29:27):
door open, the basement door. They had a basement door
in the kitchen that led so the kitchen had the
door that led down to the basement, and they could
hear the door not only the footsteps, but they could
hear the door opening and closing. Opening and closing, and
they even decided that they locked the door and they
could still hear it opening and close, and even though
the door was locked.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
So Rosa claimed that one night she saw a shadowy figure.
She got out of bed and she found wet, really
big wet bootprints, just like on the floor because they
had hardwood floors. Uh huh, So you could see every
time there was a type of footprint or anything like that.
And this was something that was ongoing. So we'll hear

(30:10):
more about that as we go. But in March twenty twelve,
at approximately two am, things took a scary turn for
the worse. Most of the family was away because there
was a death in the family. So a lot of
people had gathered over at the house and you know,
just sit around reminiscent and stuff like you would do.
And LaToya yelled out, Mama, Mama was keeping find Rose
of Campbell was her mom. They ran into the twelve

(30:34):
year old daughter's room. She was levitating over the bed.

Speaker 7 (30:38):
Holy crap, and that's how she said, was mama, Mama?

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Well the yeah, I mean, what else are you gonna say?

Speaker 7 (30:43):
I'd be like, holy shit balls, That's what I would say.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
And they may have said that, they just didn't print
that in the paper I read. So the girl is
just standing over top of it. Now, according to Amins
and several other people that had gathered our daughter, you know,
they just kind of start praying around her, and the
girl just kind of slowly lowered her way back to
the bed. Now this is something like keep in mind,
several people saw this. So after she gets laid down

(31:10):
to the bed again, she wakes up, but she don't
remember anything, and then you know, big shock here. The
people who were at the house refused to come.

Speaker 7 (31:19):
Back to the house yaoui.

Speaker 3 (31:22):
And they didn't know that it was anything supernatural until
all that happened. You know, they'd heard some stuff, but
they just wouldn't sure. So they called some local churches
and most of them refused to listen. You know, that's
some good old church people for you. You know, well,
we don't really care what you got to say. But

(31:43):
you know, like when you know that something's going on
in your house it's supernatural, and then you can't even
get the church to listen to what you're going to say. Eventually,
they found a church that would listen to them, and
after visiting the house and talking they had spirits was
off obvious. That's what according to church people, that they
had some spirits in the house. And they suggested, you know,

(32:05):
cleaning with bleach and ammonia or beach. You could clean
with the beach.

Speaker 7 (32:08):
I guess, yeah, nowhere, I think that was going on
in my house. I'd be trying anything.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
But they said, you know, clean with bleach and ammonia
and then use oil to draw on all the windows.
And they wanted to use olive oil to draw on
the windows and the doors, to draw crosses and stuff
on them, and supposedly that.

Speaker 7 (32:30):
Would that would help keep the demons away.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
According to these people, they would also pour it on
the hands and feet of her kids and then make
crosses on their foreheads. Because she wanted to make sure
that her kids were safe. Yeah, Now, she reached out
to two clairvoyants and they came to the house. They
went down to the basement, and they pretty much after
a short period of time, came running out of the

(32:52):
basement and they said that there was at least two
hundred spirits. Now, I don't know, I don't know how
to hell you get a number. I mean to do
it like a roll call like at school. Okabl's a bob. Okay,
put your hand down, you know what I mean, what
are you supposed to do?

Speaker 7 (33:08):
But not go in the basement for one thing, I wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
So they came up and then they told them that
they should move. But moving wasn't an option because like
most people, they were broke, they couldn't afford to move.

Speaker 7 (33:20):
Well, I mean, and then sometimes the spirits of catch
I mean, latch onto you anyway, right, And.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
So their other suggestion was, well, if you can't move,
maybe you can do some kind of temporary altar down
in the basement. So that's what she did. She got
an end table, she put a white sheet over it,
she put a white candle, a statue of Jesus, Mary
and Joseph and I put it, had an open Bible
and she opened it to Psalm ninety one. So that's

(33:48):
what she kind of did to try to draw stuff out. Now,
her and a friend they wore white T shirts, put
white scarves on their head, and they decided they were
going to go through the house burning sulfur. She was
doing like the signs of the Cross with the smoke
and all that stuff, and then she was reading Psalm
ninety one, as they just kind of went through the

(34:10):
house just trying to do like a cleansing themselves. They
said it worked for about three days. Oh wow, yep,
and then after that all help lose broke loose.

Speaker 7 (34:23):
So they were really mad, the spiritual really extra mad.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
So the family said that LaToya, Omen and the three
children were all possessed by demons. Their eyes would bulge out,
the evil would just kind of speak through, and the
voices would get real deep. And so Rosa said that
the demons didn't affect her any because she was born
with protection. I don't really know what that means, but
apparently she can't be possessed, so she never had any

(34:49):
kind of signs of any kind of possession or anything
where all the other ones did. So she said that
when she he was born that she had like a
guardian angel that was attached to her and that's that's why.
But I don't know how you would know, Yeah, how
would you know?

Speaker 2 (35:09):
That?

Speaker 7 (35:09):
She probably was like bitch, be won by what she's in.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
So LaToya could tell when she was possessed, because she
said she would get really light headed and she would
get weak.

Speaker 7 (35:19):
Oh, so she could feel it coming on.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
Yeah, I guess like a like a migraine. Yeah, yeah,
can you imagine? Could you imagine? Oh, I ain't gonna
be able to go out night. I feel a possession
coming on.

Speaker 7 (35:32):
My goodness.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
So the seven year old would sit in the closet
and talk to a boy that nobody else could see.
You know, he's invisible, but he would. He said that
the little boy would tell him what it was like
to be killed.

Speaker 7 (35:49):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (35:51):
So then, obviously that's going to freak you out. Rosa
said that the seven year old one time was thrown
out of the bathroom, like literally, like he was stand
in the bathroom and something invisible threw him out of
the bathroom, hitting his sister so hard she had to
go and have stitches.

Speaker 7 (36:09):
Oh my god, Well so it killed him, though.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
No, who's anything about somebody being killed?

Speaker 7 (36:16):
Oh, I thought you said that guy, that kid was
telling what it felt like to be.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
The invisible kid. Oh well, is everybody else at home
following along?

Speaker 7 (36:24):
I think I knew you said that, but I'm confused now.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
So then the twelve year old, which which is the
only girl of the family. Of the kids, she said
that the seven year old would choke her, hold her down,
and then he would have this weird voice come out
of him, almost demonic, and say that she wouldn't live
for another twenty minutes and she would never see her
family again.

Speaker 7 (36:48):
A little shithead.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
He obviously needed us banking, he needed Yeah, some knights
were so bad that they went to stay at a hotel.
Now April nineteenth of twenty twelve, they went back to
their family doctor. I almost screw this name up, but
I think it's Jeffrey on a ykup. She told them
what had happened and asked if there was some way

(37:11):
he could help. Now, the doctor said, in twenty years,
he had never heard anything like this, and he was
kind of scared when he walked into the room. So
he walked in. He got all the details, and then
in his notes he wrote that she was delusional, that
she had delusions of ghost in the home, hallucinating history

(37:35):
of ghost at the house, and delusional again. He obviously
didn't think much of what she was telling him. Apparently
not glad this was her family doctor. Now, what happened
next is basically the weirdest part. This is where everything
takes a twist. Okay, now, this was all detailed in

(37:56):
a DCS reporter and those of you who don't know
DCS's Department of Children Services, So I'm not sure what
everything is around the world, but basically it's the services
that are meant to make sure the kids aren't abused.
And what you say, everybody's got them. Some places it's
called crimes against children. Some people it's called child protective services. Yeah,
so everything's got different now. But what happened all this

(38:17):
that I'm getting ready to tell you is all detailed
in a DCS report that a family case manager's interview
where they had with medical examiners. Okay, so Rosa Campbell,
keep in mind that's the grandma the kids and miss
Amon's mom said that the two boys cursed out the
doctor in demonic voices and they were like raging at him. Okay,

(38:41):
so they were all into it and hateful and screaming.
Medical staff said that the youngest boy was lifted up
and thrown into a wall with nobody touching him. According
to the DCS report, so this is actually documented by
the worker. The boys both passed out and they wouldn't

(39:02):
come to so they called nine to one one seven
or eight police officers and multiple ambulances showed up. The
police and the emergency personnel took the boys to Methodist
Hospital in Gary, Indiana. Amons asked if she could anoint
her sons with olive oil, and she said some of
the personnel actually laughed at her, which obviously they don't
have a clue why she's wanting to do that. Now

(39:24):
that both of the boys eventually woke up, the oldest
boy was acting normal, but the youngest boy flopped around
kind of gyrated and it took five grown men to
hold him down. Now, somebody at the hospital called DCS
and asked them if they could investigate Amons because they
said that she thought she had a mental illness and

(39:44):
they thought that the kids basically were neglected and being abused,
So they came in. DCS family care manager Valerie Washington
was asked to handle the case. She came in started
to investigate, and this is exactly what she told police,
and this was listed in the police report. She said.
Hospital personnel examined the children and found her to be

(40:08):
found them to be healthy, free of marks and bruises.
Miss Amons was examined by a psychiatrist and found to
be of sound mind. So there was nothing wrong what
any of them according this. Now, Washington interviewed the family
at the hospital. Okay, so she hadn't been to the
house all. This was taking place at the hospital, she said.

(40:30):
While she talked to the youngest boy, he started growling,
with his teeth showing and his eyes rolled back in
his head. He locked his hands around his older brother's
throat and refused to let go until an adult could
pry his hands off of him.

Speaker 7 (40:47):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Later that night, Washington and they registered nurse by the
name of Willie Lee Walker. They brought the two boys
into a little exam room separately, and they wanted to
interview and the Rosa Campbell grandma came along to it.
The youngest started staring into his brother's eyes and started
that growl. Shit again. He says it's time to die.

(41:12):
I will kill you in a demon voice.

Speaker 7 (41:15):
That's really nice.

Speaker 3 (41:16):
Well, I said a demon voice, but what they actually
said it was an unnatural, very deep, unnatural voice. So
at this time, the older brother just started head button
rose A Campbell in the stomach. Now Campbell grabbed the
hands of the other older boy that was head buttoner,
and she started praying with him. Now, what happened next,

(41:38):
and just really screwed everybody up that was there to see.
Because I'm getting to it. Hold on, baby bird, I'll
feed you. But this is according to Washington's official report,
and it was corroborated by the nurse. I think it
says corroborated. I started throwing an Italian restaurant in there.

(42:01):
But according to the nurse, the nine year old got
a weird grin on his face. He then walked backwards
up a wall to the ceiling. He then flipped over Campbell,
landing on his feet and never let go of her
hand the whole time this happened.

Speaker 7 (42:20):
Is that how Michael Jackson learned how.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
To do the moon? I was going to say, being
from Gary, Indiana, it probably wouldn't surprise me. They were
probably just moonwalking.

Speaker 7 (42:28):
Well, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
So the nurse said that he walked up the wall,
flipped and then just stood there. And he said, there's
no way that he could have done that. Now police
ask the obvious question, did he run up the wall
like an acrobat or an acrobatic trick? Yeah, and they
said no, he glided backwards like yeah, So he glided

(42:53):
all the way back to the wall, glided up the wall,
glided to the ceiling, and then flipped over. They said
it was like a very slow pace.

Speaker 7 (43:00):
Oh man, I'd like to see that.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Though, I fee a lot of people would. So Washington
and Walker they both ran out of the room that
was the nurse, and they told a doctor what happened.
And of course he wanted to see the boy do
it again, like I probably would have wanted to see.

Speaker 7 (43:15):
Him do it too, Oh definitely.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
So he wanted to see him do it again. And
the boy didn't remember anything at all and said that
he couldn't do it again. So you know, now the
police report and.

Speaker 7 (43:27):
We had had cell phones back in the day.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Well this was two years ago, babe, Oh three years
this was twenty eleven. I think they had sell phones.

Speaker 7 (43:38):
Why didn't they take that stuff?

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, I'd love you, bless your little heart. So, according
to the police report, they quoted Washington saying that she
believed in an evil influence could be affecting the family.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You think.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
So, Amons spent the night with the youngest son because
he stayed in the hospital, and the daughter and the
older son went to spend the night with some relatives. Now,
the next day was the youngest son, who was seven.
It was his birthday, he was turning eight.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Now.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
They asked for the other two kids to come back up,
so they just assumed that they wanted to talk to
him more about what happened. The day before they come
back up, they celebrated his birthday and then Miss Amens
was shocked to find out that the children were not
going to be going home. That Yeah, the DCS took
emergency step taking custody without doing a court order. So

(44:29):
they took custody of the three kids.

Speaker 7 (44:31):
Well, they're probably glad now.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
All of the children were experiencing the spiritual and emotional
dis distress and that was according to the DCS form,
and that's why they applied for the custody for the
well being of the children.

Speaker 7 (44:45):
I just can't imagine as a kid having to experience that.
I mean, you're a kid. You can't even rationalize what
the heck? You know?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
It could be worse, could be growing up in a
rock or something.

Speaker 7 (44:56):
Yeah, yeah, probably, Oh lord, yes.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
So April, he has twenty twelve, way before cell phones. Father, Michael,
I think it's Magino. He got a call from the
hospital chaplain, which he said was the weirdest call that
he'd ever gotten, because he had been a priest at
Saint Stephen Martyr Parish in Meryllville, which is also right

(45:21):
outside of Gary. Meryllville, Hammond and Gary are all kind
of little neighboring cities right there. But he got a
call saying that, hey, we've got a kid up here
that I think needs an exorcism. Can you come do this? Well,
obviously they just can't come do exorcisms. I mean, there's
procedures and steps that need to be taken. But in

(45:41):
ten years of being at that church, he said he
had never heard anything like that. So he agreed to
meet with the family after Sunday Mass, which was a
couple of days later. Now, the first step was to
rule out any kind of natural causes, obviously, so he
visited the miss Amon and Campbell. Course, of course they
don't have the kids. Now. He had visited both of
them April twenty second of twenty twelve, and about two

(46:04):
hours into their detailing him of everything that's going on,
Rosa Campbell pointed out that there was a flickering light
in the bathroom. Now he would walk towards the bathroom.
As he'd walk in the light would quit flickering, he'd
walk out, it would start flickering again, he'd come back in,
and he even kind of made a joke that it
must be scared of me. And so they go back

(46:26):
to their talking about what's going on. Campbell then pointed
out that the Venetian blinds they had were swinging, like
these were the long ones, you know, like a patio door,
And yeah, they're the long ones like on a patio door. Yeah,
And they started swinging. But there was no wind or
anything in the house. So she pointed that.

Speaker 7 (46:47):
Out to him, and maybe there was a heat vent.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Well that's something that actually he went to see what
there was no furnace on or Yeah, he checked to
see whether if there was a furnace or an air
conditioner or something there. Yep, So that was one of
the things he checked. And what he notices when he
went over there that there was wet footprints throughout the
living room. But they weren't like coming from a door

(47:12):
or anything. And I mean it's just like in the
middle of the room with a wet footprint, like where
the hell does come from. So he saw the wet
footprints itself. He also noticed that on the blinds. There
was like an oil on him, which didn't really seem
so out of whack because they were putting oil on
the windows and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 (47:31):
Olive oil.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
I don't know, and I believe that's oil not oil.
We want most of our listeners.

Speaker 7 (47:37):
To understand what oil olive oil.

Speaker 3 (47:41):
I mean, I don't know. I mean, when you think,
I mean, I guess, I mean, I don't know if
it's got to be extra virgin or top.

Speaker 7 (47:49):
I just don't think I've ever heard him use olive
oil oil.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
So at this point in time, Amon said that she
had a headache. She said that she then she said
she was freezing. She went and got a blanket out
of the bedroom to cover up. Then all of a sudden,
she was burning up and threw the blanket off. So
he went and placed a crucifix on her head and
she started convulsing. Now, just to play nice, he put

(48:18):
a crucifix on her mom's head and nothing happened. But
remember she's protected. Oh, she's got a guardian angel.

Speaker 7 (48:23):
She must speak the truth.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Now there are four hours into this whole conversation, and
he said he was convinced that the family was tormented
by Demons. He also thought there was some ghosts in
the house, so he did like a blessing of the
house and then he left. He told Aimons that it
really wasn't safe to be there, she should probably move out,
so she moved in with her brother, Missus Campbell's other son,

(48:48):
and less than a week later she had to come
back to the house because Miss Washington from the Department
of Children's Services wanted to inspec the house, so Washington
came in. She had a Lake County police officer with
her so they could check stuff out. Now, two other
police officers, one from Gary and one from Hammond, which

(49:10):
was another neighboring city, asked to join just out of
professional curiosity, so they really didn't have any jurisdiction, but
they'd kind of heard what was going on and they
were curious. So Amons refused to go into the house,
but Rose of Campbell her mom said she'd go in
with the group. And the main floor had three bedrooms,
a living room. It had a small open kitchen, hardwood floors,

(49:32):
and of course the door in the kitchen that led
to the basement, and the basement had concrete floors directly
underneath the stairs. Was a dirt floor and the concrete
was all jagged around it, like somebody had busted it up.
The altar that the miss Amans created was still down there.
It was all intact, and there was a ring of
salt that she had poured all the way around the
walls because salt is supposed to keep out demons. Campbell

(49:56):
told the officers that the demon's activities seemed to come
from the basement beneath the stairs. Oddly enough, that's where
they've got that, you know, the broken concrete at now
that Captain Austin from the Gary Police Department. And Captain
Austin keep in mind, he had been police captain for like,
I think it was like thirty five years. So he

(50:16):
was in there and he said he believed in ghost
and the supernatural, but he didn't believe in demons. But
he said that changed after his visits.

Speaker 7 (50:23):
Oh yeah, so he experienced it, Hime.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Oh absolutely. So during the interview, one of the audio
recorders that they were using started to malfunction and the
batteries went completely dead, even though they had just put
brand new batteries in it. Man, but another one of
the officers there they were recording it and he said
during the playback later on, you could hear a voice
whisper hey. And this is according to police records. This

(50:47):
is actually all not just somebody doing an interview. This
is actually on police records. Now, the same officer took
a bunch of pictures and in a photo of the
basement stairs, there was a cloudy white image in the
right hand top right hand owner. When you enlarged it,
it resembled somebody's face. Also, when they enlarged it, they
noticed that there was a second image that was green,

(51:09):
but it looked a lot like a female.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Huh.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
I don't know how many green females why. I mean,
Captain kirkscrewed that green bitch at time on though.

Speaker 7 (51:22):
You men don't do anything, I know.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Captain Austin said that the picks he took with his
iPhone had straightened silhouettes in them. And the radio this
is kind of cool. The radio in his police car
malfunctioned all the way back to the police station.

Speaker 7 (51:36):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
He then.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
I think got into his personal car and he got
home and the garage door wouldn't open, even though there
was power to everything. His garage door now wouldn't open
where he never had any problems with it, and in
his personal car, which was an Infinity, he said the seat,
the power seat, would go forward and go back and
forward and back on its own. So all this happened
right after visiting the house on it now April first,

(52:03):
So in April twenty twelve, DCS petitioned the Lake Juvenile
Court for temporary wardship of the three kids, and they've
granted to them.

Speaker 7 (52:13):
Well, you know what, I'm sorry, but if i'm them kids,
I'd be glad to be the hell up out there.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
DCS found that Amons neglected her children's education by not
having them in school on a regular basis, and that
also happened in two thousand and nine, so this wasn't
the only time. So twenty eleven is when all this started.
In two thousand and nine she didn't have in school either. Now,
Amans obviously she blamed the spirits. She said that they
would make her kids sick sometimes so they couldn't go

(52:38):
to school, and then sometimes it would keep them up
all night, therefore they.

Speaker 7 (52:41):
Couldn't go to school, but she just didn't want to
be there by herself.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Well, that doesn't explain what happened in two thousand and nine,
so anywhere DCS placed the daughter and the oldest son
in Saint Joseph's home, and then the youngest son they
put in Christian Haven for some psychiatric evaluation to be done.
So clinical psychologist Stacy Wright said that this about the

(53:08):
youngest son, She said that the only time he ever
acted possessed was when he was challenged, redirected, or asked
questions that he didn't want to answer. He seemed logical
unless he was talking about demons, and it was only
then that it was bizarre or illogical or fragmented. So basically,
she said she didn't believe that he suffered from any

(53:30):
kind of psychosis, and her exact words were, this appears
to be an unfortunate and sad case of a child
who has been undued into a delusional situation, perpetrated by
his mother and potentially reiterated by other relatives.

Speaker 7 (53:54):
That's sad.

Speaker 3 (53:56):
Now, Joel Schwartz, he basically came to the same conclusion
about the other two kids. It says there always appears
to be a need to assess the extent to where
Amon's daughter may have been unduly influenced by her mother,
to where she felt like that she was exposed to

(54:16):
paranormal activities. And the daughter said that she saw shadow
figures and that she would see stuff move. She said
that she would hear doors slam, and the same thing
with the sun. So they both all kind of said
the same things. Yeah, but they felt like these psychiatrists
and psychologists felt like that it was because the mom
had mentioned it, that it was kind of planet in

(54:38):
their head. Now, LaToya was actually examined several times and
they said she wasn't experiencing any symptoms of psychosis or
thought disorder. So none of these psychologists are coming up
with anything to show that these people have any kind
of mental problems whatsoever.

Speaker 7 (54:56):
And well, I mean that's I mean, even them saying
that and to the kids, I mean, that's probably messing
with their minds anyway. Well, and these they're probably like,
what the heck is wrong with me?

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Then?

Speaker 3 (55:07):
And if you think that's the case, it's even gonna
get worse because the DCS didn't set goals for the
family in order for LaToya to get her kids back,
and some of those goals were not discussing demons or
being possessed. They weren't allowed to talk about it as
a family. Then they had they had to take responsibility
for their own actions, and then they had half therapy

(55:31):
for the past problems that they had. So basically they're
coming in and saying, this whole demon stuff is bullshit
and you're just making all the shit up and I
don't want you to talk about it anymore.

Speaker 7 (55:41):
They have to have therapy then.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
So that's right. So well, the therapy was so if
there were issues that wouldn't really going on, but they
had planted them in their own minds, it was, I
guess to get rid of the problems. But I mean,
I just think it's absolutely crazy that they're basically going
to tell these people we're and you're wrong.

Speaker 7 (56:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
So then the agency said that in order for her
to be able to get the kids back, that she
needed to find an alternative way to discipline the kids
that wasn't related to religion or demon possession. That's kind
of odd. So I don't know, I never really saw
anything that really led this to It's almost like they

(56:24):
were saying that she was punishing them by some kind
of religious means or with using the demonic possession as
a punishment. I don't know what they meant by that.
I don't know if they meant that she was making
the kids do some kind of prayers or scriptures out
of the Bible or something when they misbehaved, or if
she was, you know, telling them, you know, the devil's

(56:46):
gonna get you if you do this. And I'm not
sure what they meant by that, but apparently something came
out to where that's what they told her she had
to do. They said that, you know, she could work
on she was gonna have what do you call supervised
visits patients, but that she could work on getting the
kids back and work on this during the supervised visitations.
In order to get the kids back, she also had

(57:08):
to find a job and appropriate housing due to paranormal activity.
Now that's what it actually said in the listing find
new housing due to paranormal activity. So in one sense,
they're saying, you got to find a new place because
there's panormal activity in this house. But at the same
time they're saying, we're going to say none of this
stuff ever happened, and.

Speaker 7 (57:27):
You're looking for ridiculous because like, again, how messed up
is that for the kids?

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Well, I mean it's very hypocritical.

Speaker 7 (57:34):
Well, it is very hypocritical. They need to butt out.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
So well, Amon's worked on this. This is what I
find peculiar about this. Why she's working on all this?
Police and DCS continued to investigate the strange happenings at
the house. So I mean, you basically already made your
conclusion that they're full of shit, But now you're still
going out and investigating the house and they're not even
living there right now, what is the point? So in

(57:58):
May tenth of twenty twelve, Amons Campbell, Captain Austin from
the Gary Police Department, and two other police officers from
the original visit came after work hours. Now they were
joined by father Magino Magino, I'm sorry, and two Lake

(58:19):
County officers with a police dog and a DCS family caseworker.
And I do not know how to pronounce his name.
I'm just gonna gonna lie. Her name was Samantha, but
it's I I I c.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
K.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
And I find out hor to believe that's what it is,
but that's what it looks like. So well, from this
point on, she will be known as Samantha. Yes, seriously, Now,
Samantha was there because Washington, who had started this investigation
for DCS. She did not want to go back to
the house again. I don't say she obviously had some
ill feelings towards the house. I was free. So the officer,

(58:56):
the one officer with the police dog, he took it
all the way around the outside the house while everybody
else went to the basement. And Samantha touched this strange liquid.
She said it felt slippery, but it was sticky between
her fingers, which wouldn't be olive oil or oil. Magino

(59:17):
told the police that he went to check under the
stairs because he didn't know about this when he was
there before, because remember he was there just a couple
of days before the police came out and found that.
He wanted to check under the stairs to see if
there was like a pentagram or some personal objects that
might be cursed, or somebody might have buried there, or
a person might be buried there, because if it had
been a death in the house and somebody buried, that

(59:38):
might have been the problem. Attle bit So police dug
a four foot by three foot hole. They found a
pink press on nail. It has been a good opportunity
for Lease Press on Nails to get an endorsement.

Speaker 7 (59:51):
Deal, no doubt, but it's weird.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
They found a press on nail, a white pair of panties,
a political shirt pin, a for a small cooking pan,
socks with the bottoms cut off at the right below
the ankles, candy wrappers, and a weight that you would
use for like a drapery cord or something that would
to pull the draves back and stuff. That's what was

(01:00:15):
down there.

Speaker 7 (01:00:16):
That's all that they found, like random crap.

Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
I know, it sounds like a party to me.

Speaker 7 (01:00:20):
It sounds something weird.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
But Samantha said that when she was down there, she
didn't feel good. She went upstairs and later, while she
was standing in the living room, her pinky finger started
tingling and it started like whitening. Yeah, so it was
almost like the circulation was being cut off, and then
she said it felt like it was broken. But less
than ten minutes later, she couldn't breathe and started having

(01:00:44):
a panic in attack or a panic attack, and then
she walked outside. When father questioned the aimings inside the house,
she started complaining of a headache and shoulder pain and
then she went outside. Then in Austin left it dark
because after over thirty years on the forest, being shot at,

(01:01:05):
being involved in rape cases, murder cases and all that.
He said, flat up, I'm not going to be in
that house after dark.

Speaker 7 (01:01:13):
He ain't trying to be possessed in his retirement.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
That's right. So the other police went ahead and walked
through the house on the main floor. They started noticing
that the oil was dripping from the blinds, but they
couldn't tell where it was coming from. So they wanted
to make sure obviously that Amons or Campbell hadn't put
oil on there while they were downstairs or something. So
they cleaned it all off. They blocked off the room,

(01:01:39):
and they didn't let anybody in for twenty five minutes.
So they were at the doors. Michonoway came in. They
went right back in there, and the oil had reappeared
on every one of the things. So Mangino then told
the police that the oil was a manifestation of paranormal
or demonic presence. I wonder if he did that, like,
if you tasted it. No, that's not all that's that's

(01:02:01):
demon you like people do transmission for this suff Oh yeah.
So he wrote in a detailed report and he asked
Bishop deal, I think it's my Check's permission for an
exorcism on the amens. Now, my Check had never authorized
an exorcism in twenty four years as being the bishop

(01:02:22):
of the Diocese of Gary, and he initially denied this request.
Held he told him to contact some other priests that
had been doing some h what he called minor exorcisms.
They don't need church approval to do that, so you
can do a minor excism about church approval. This is
what I think is funny. It sold twenty first century.
He wanted him to contact these other priests so he

(01:02:44):
could actually get the ritual from them. And when he
contacted the priest, they told him just get it off
the internet. That's what they said. Stop basically google it.
I might do that when we get off here. So
he did what you what you call an intense blood
on the home to expel bad spirits. That the same
day he did do a minor exorcism of amens. It

(01:03:06):
was a ritual that just basically consists of the prayers,
statements and appeals to cast demons out. Now, two police
officers and Samantha were at that ritual. Now, Samantha said
she left believing that something was going on. She wouldn't
go as far as to say it was demons, but
she said she got chills for the whole two hours
that the ritual went on. It just felt like somebody
was in the room breathing down your neck. Samantha also

(01:03:29):
said that she had an amazing string of bad medical
problems after visiting the house. In a thirty day period.
She got third degree burns from a motorcycle. She broke
her ankle running in flip flops. I might add, I
tell you not to do that. He's proof. Well, I've
never seen you run in.

Speaker 7 (01:03:48):
Where you getting that from?

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
She broke three ribs in a jet ski accident, and
she broke her hand hitting the table on thirty days,
it sounds to me like the bitches is clumsy.

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
No, yeah, I mean it sounds to me like that's true.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
So, I mean, how you go try to blame something
on a house when one of them happened to ride
a jet ski, one was on a motorcycle. You hit
a table with your hand, you're running in flip flops,
you're asking for trumble. Well, yeah, first of all, you
should never wear flip flops to begin with.

Speaker 7 (01:04:14):
Yeah, those things are dangerous.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
I love them. Though, so then after the minor ritual,
he asked Amens to look up the names of the
demons more googling, look up the names of the demons
that are tormenting her, because every demon has a name,
and they also have personalities, and by looking up the personality,
she could see basically whatever was happening to her. She

(01:04:38):
can see what demon's personalities fit the problem, and then
he could use that during a real exorcism. So Amins
and a friend she tried to look up the demons
online more googling based on the problems that they were having.
But she said she would feel sick, she would feel
light headed, and then the computer kept shutting down. That's

(01:04:59):
probably just Gates, he thinks, what it is, Yeah, I
know anytime I deal with windows. She said. She found
some of the names that fit actually, though, one of
which was Bil's a Bob. He's lord of the flies.

Speaker 7 (01:05:15):
Beels a bob, lord of the flies where the flies
come in?

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
I guess I mean because she was having a problem
with the flies in the very beginning. Yeah, so that
would be that would make sense. And then she said
there was they found some demons that actually torture children,
torture and her children, so she wrote all these names down. Now,
after the miner, the bishop actually gave Father Mangino permission
to do a full blown exorcism, and he said, it's

(01:05:42):
the funny thing is you know what the full blown
extorcism is. It's the exact same thing as the minor exorcism,
but it's got the backing of the Catholic Church, so
they're forth more powerful. She would come to do the
exact same thing.

Speaker 7 (01:05:54):
It was more powerful, No, no, I buy that or not.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
So he performed three major exercises on amens, two of
them in English, one of them in Latin, and one
in pig Latin. Just to be sure, I made that up.

Speaker 7 (01:06:09):
I was like between Latin and pig Latin.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
So the last one he did it was in June
twenty twelve, and it was in his church, and you know,
the Meryville Church. It's funny because during each each one
of these things, each one of these exorcisms, he would
praise God and then command demons to leave. So that's

(01:06:36):
basically was the whole exorcism. He pressed a cruciffix on
her head as he spoke, and this is what he said.
So if you know anybody possessed it. You just want
to try this out. I'm giving you the tools right here.
Oh okay, you might want to get some holy water something.
And if you don't do a really good job and
they're possessed and then you don't pay it, you could
get repossessed.

Speaker 7 (01:06:58):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
So anyway, he pressed the cruise and fixed her head,
and he spoke, I cast you out, unclean spirit, along
with every satanic power of the enemy, every specter from Hell,
and all of your companions, in the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ. It seems awful small to be because

(01:07:20):
they seemed like an exorcist. They read a whole lot
more shit than that. I mean, I didn't hear any
of the power of Christ compels you or none of that,
So I don't know how true it is.

Speaker 7 (01:07:28):
A version. You couldn't get away with that. These days.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
He kept getting louder and more forceful until the demon weakened. Now,
he said, you can tell the demon is weakening or
how strong it is about how much convulsing that the
person does. Now, she prayed along with him until she
said it became too painful, and she said, this is funny.

(01:07:53):
You know at the time. Just so you know, there
was two police officers that were standing out front, and
they were the two to the ones that were helping
with the other stuff, but they just wanted to be
there in case she needed to be restrained. But Amons
said that it felt like something was inside of her
trying to hold on and inflict pain. She said it
was different than natural pain, but it was just as
painful as childbirth. Now, eventually she fell asleep. That was

(01:08:20):
the demon's way of lessening the ritual. So I guess
he figured she's asleep. It just kind of tone it
down a little bit. Okay. Now, the third in the
final exorcism took place at the end of June twenty twelve,
and he did this one actually in Latin. Now by
now miss Amans was living in Indianapolis, but she had
to drive in for the exorcisms and for the court

(01:08:40):
dates because she still had her kids in the DCS,
so she still had to come back for court dates
for that. Now, father said that the whole time he
was doing this, she convulsed while he was condemning the
spirit to leave, but not during the prayers. She then
fell asleep and then he said the words of Thanksgiving,
which I don't know what the words of things that cornucopia, turkey,

(01:09:04):
pumpkin pie maybe could be, but those are the only
words I know of Thanksgiving. So that's the first time
I'd ever heard words of Thanksgiving. Now, I didn't know
if that was the last time that they would see
each other. Father, father, man, Jean or whatever his name is.
I'm sure.

Speaker 7 (01:09:22):
Now that you're just making some of it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
Father father, but it's the last time that the miss
Amans and the five would see each other. But she
said now that she can live without fear. And in
November twenty twelve, and I know everybody's curious, six months
after they took her kids, she got her kids back. Good,
let's talk about the you know. And I know it
sounds like an abrupt way to end this, but there
really isn't anything else to cover. I mean, at that

(01:09:45):
point she got the kids back, the kids were happy,
They couldn't they were so excited to see her.

Speaker 7 (01:09:50):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
There's no talks of demons, there's no talks of anything.
They don't have any problems at all in their life
right now that involved anything to do with that. But
let's talk about the how for a few minutes. Now,
originally you know the landlord, the guy anybody the name
of Charles Reed who owned the house and was the landlord.
He said that basically she was full of shit. He said,
there had never been any problems in that house with

(01:10:13):
anybody who lived before it, and he's got tenants in
there afterwards, and there were no problems with them, and
matter of fact, he had to call the the Gary
Police Department to ask them to quit drive and buy
because they were scaring the current tenants that lived there.

Speaker 7 (01:10:28):
So well, maybe that the demons don't like the current tenants. Well,
well maybe not, who knows, Maybe it's not his cup
of tea.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
And of course we touched on this a little bit
earlier as Zach Beggin's from Ghost Adventurers. He actually bought
the house and he said that there was so much
evil in that house that he had it torn down
because he felt like that there should never be another

(01:10:57):
family lived there.

Speaker 7 (01:10:58):
Well, good for him.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
Now there's nobody really knows exactly what his reasoning for
tearing the house down. He's got a documentary coming out
supposedly the end of this year. They're supposed to have
all the answers of everything he experienced at that house.
So I guess what's gonna have to wait and see?
Now called Zach Uh yesterday because I wanted to find
out a little more about the documentary, and he was

(01:11:21):
really adamant about I never call his phone again. So
I basically got nothing for you on that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Did you really know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Long get Zach's phone number?

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (01:11:36):
I don't know how you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
Operate, but anyway, that's that's the story we got on
the Gary Demon House. I mean, can you imagine a situation.
I mean, think about this story. You've got a woman
talking about she's possessed. Three kids are seeing we got
kids being thrown against the walls by and and all

(01:11:57):
kinds of witnesses from Child Protective Service.

Speaker 7 (01:12:00):
They're wasting olive.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Old police officers are all seeing this. Kids being thrown
around walls with nobody there to touch them. They're seeing
kids walk up walls backwards, They're hearing demonic voices. You've
got police officers scared to go in this house. You've
got Child Protective Service people that won't come back to

(01:12:21):
the house, and then the ones who did come they're scared.
I mean, I know, not everybody believes and the kind
of stuff we're talking about, and I'm not saying everything
we talk about is one hundred percent believable. I've said
that before, But how can you not believe something happened
at this house with that kind of documentation.

Speaker 7 (01:12:42):
I think they're a bunch of wienies, is what I think.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
Yeah, i'd like to see you walking in You don't.
You don't walk downstairs in our own house when it's
dark without flipping lights on?

Speaker 7 (01:12:49):
Oh I do?

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
So whatever. Anyways, what about when we go to one
hundred houses and are fake and we go to them Halloween?

Speaker 7 (01:12:59):
Yeah, that's scary. You've got ripped my arm off, only
because there's just sick people out in the world and
they may take that crap literally what they're doing, so
that scares you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:07):
But a demon in the house wouldn't scare you. Well,
what a liar? Anyways, I wanted to basically say that
I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of torn on
this one because I can see all the things that

(01:13:29):
happened that all the people saw. That makes you think
there's got to be something. But then at the same time,
you know they did an exorcism on her, but he
didn't do an exorcism on the kids, So why are
they okay?

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Now?

Speaker 3 (01:13:44):
And at them? If the clairvoyants said there were so
many demons in that house, they put a number, Like
I said, I don't know how you can count, but
you know, why were they?

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
And I understand these things can attach themselves to you,
but it's just it's just something doesn't seem right at
the fact that the kids basically had no problems and
they didn't have an exorcism done to them. I don't
understand how having it on the mom would fix all
the problems.

Speaker 7 (01:14:10):
Now, why can't you just let it be happy ending
and quit running it?

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
Well? Because there needs to be answers.

Speaker 7 (01:14:15):
Damn it, there is answers. Mom was the mean one
and she took all the demons away from her kids
and they didn't need an exorcism because that's what moms do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
Now you're just babling.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Now.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
I will say this part of the studies that I did,
and I would advise anybody to go listen to this.
There is an episode of Mysterious Radio with Katon my
girl over there that we always talk about. She actually
did an interview. It's about an hour long. Interview with
the Priest Mangino, and like I said, I'm sure I'm

(01:14:52):
pronouncing it wrong. I should have went listened to her
show again. But she actually he actually does a long
interview where he talks in detail of a lot of
these different you know, on this subject, and like I said,
he was there for all this. I would highly advise
anybody to go back and listen to that if you're
interested in more than the story, because I thought that
he did a heck of a job on explaining some
of the stuff that I didn't even get to in

(01:15:13):
a story.

Speaker 7 (01:15:14):
So go back his name.

Speaker 3 (01:15:16):
I'm sure he probably does. But go listen to her
the episode on there, you'll find it really easy. It
says Exorcism of the Demon House on there, so you'll
be able to find it. And also, just as a coincidence,
that is the same episode that Tracy and I were on,
and she allowed us to come on and do a
little intro for the show and she gave us a

(01:15:37):
little praise, so you get a little doubleheader. We actually
started off that show. Yeah, so that's what we got
for the Demon House of Gary, Indiana. I hope you
enjoyed that one, because I know we certainly did. And
we're going to talk about a couple of quick things
and then we're going to bring on Steve Asher and
talk about his book, The Hauntings of the Kentucky State Penitentiary.

(01:15:58):
But we were talking about doing a Patreon page, which,
excuse me, I burket a little bit. I can get
throw up a little bit in my mouth, but I'm
a gamer, so I'm going to go and work through it.
Stop it. So we're talking about doing a Patreon page.

(01:16:23):
And for those of you who don't know what a
Patreon page is, it's basically it's a page where you
can show your support by pledging a monthly donation. It
takes it out every single month, but we're gonna have
something to set up for like a dollar. Stop laughing.
This isn't funny. This is serious. I'm trying to be
serious with vomit my mouth. But what we're gonna do

(01:16:44):
is is typically how these things work is people agree
to give a monthly donation. It comes out by PayPal
or credit card, and then what we agree to do
is give you something extra for the money. And we'll
probably have three tiers is what I'm thinking. Besides this,
but we're gonna have three tiers. It's probably gonna be
a dollar a month, and you'll get something basic like

(01:17:04):
a shout out, and then your name may get entered
every month for a T shirt. We're gonna give away
a T shirt every month, so if you're if you
donate a dollar a month, your name at least gets
put in for a T shirt drawing. If you do
the three dollars tier, we're actually gonna do an episode
every month of listener stories. So it's just gonna be
we're gonna get in contact with some listeners and they'll

(01:17:25):
tell their story live and we'll read a couple and
then we'll probably just tell some fun stories that happened,
you know, maybe some paranormal stories or something out there.
But it's gonna be basically a listener show, your chance
to tell your stories, and if you donate three dollars
a month, you'll get in for the T shirt drawing
and you get that episode free every month. And if

(01:17:45):
you do the five dollar tier, we're gonna do a
separate show, which is gonna be a lot like our
regular show, except it's gonna be more on the true
crime type situation like we did the Lizzie Bordon show,
which I consider true crime hh Holme. And then what
was the other one we did that was like that
ALEISTERA Crowley kind of but say something. He's not really

(01:18:09):
as much of a true crime he still fits more
of the paranormal. The did Slow Pass about the Hikers
that kind of fits in there. But what we're going
to do is we're probably gonna stop doing those type
of shows and just do strictly paranormal shows like you
heard tonight, and then we'll do an extra show every
month that's going to be on stuff like Jack the Ripper.
I'd like to do one on some of the colts

(01:18:30):
out there, like the Jim Jones your older people remember
that the guy in a Deal. I'd like to be
able to do one on that, and then maybe maybe
The Right that's where that came from, and maybe the
Heaven's Gate or something like that. But do one show
those a month. That'd probably be a forty five minute show.
And if you donate the five dollars a month, you'll
get that show, plus you'll get the listener show, and

(01:18:52):
you'll also get the entered for the donation of our
enter for the T shirt drying every month, so.

Speaker 7 (01:18:58):
If you're lucky, you'll get another episode. Jerry pukin in
his mouth.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Well, let's don't make promises we can't keep.

Speaker 7 (01:19:05):
Well, that was pretty impressive. The look went with it,
though you kind of got to see it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
But I didn't even stop because I'm that's the way
I am. I care about these people, even though I
could have just pressed the record button and edit it out.
But that's what we got planned for you guys. And
then we'll let you know it gets closer. It's probably
gonna be two, three, four weeks away. And then for
any of you guys that have already donated, we're not
going to leave you out. We'll throw you in for

(01:19:32):
the first episode to be on us just for what
you've already done, and way ter you off for a
T shirt for raying too. Yeah, so you're not going
to miss out if you've already donated.

Speaker 7 (01:19:41):
I want some ice cream. O, my god, you're.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
Just so random.

Speaker 7 (01:19:45):
I know, I just feel like I want some ice cream.

Speaker 3 (01:19:47):
I'll take you out for ice cream in a minute.
We'll go to Covert because I like their ice cream.
I've been craving it. Anyways, hold on real tight and
I'm going to bring on Steve Asher, and this is
going to be fun because this this is not too
far from where we live, and the book is fascinating.
And we've already had Jillie Gilder who actually has donated

(01:20:07):
to the show. Thank you for that, Julie. She actually
has already went on Amazon and purchased this book just
because I put out the little flyer with it on there.
So awesome. So we will see you guys shortly, and
we're going to talk to Steve Asher. All right, everybody,
welcome back to Hilly Horror Stories. And I've got a
special guest on the phone. I've got joining me, Steve E. Asher.

(01:20:31):
And Steve has got a book out called Hauntings of
the Kentucky State Penitentiary sent me a complimentary copy. It
is a very quick read. It's one of those that
want you pick it up. You're not gonna be able
to put it down. Awesome stories, and it's Steve. Thank
you for coming on the show. I greatly appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Hey, I appreciate it as well, and I look forward
to getting in depth a little bit about some of
this writing and some of the questions you got.

Speaker 3 (01:20:56):
Awesome you know, it's funny how we came to talk
talk to each other. You've got a we've got a
mutual friend, a listener to the show, Kevin Cummings that said, hey,
have you ever heard of this book? And at the
time I hadn't, and he put me in contact with you.
One thing led to another, but I'm glad he did,
because Kevin's a great listener and not only does he

(01:21:18):
do us a lot of justice by listening to the show,
but now he's actually turned us on to somebody that
thinks going to be a great addition to our show,
that that our listeners are really going to enjoy. So
thanks to Kevin out there for putting us together.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Oh for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
He looks to My wife, Cheyenne, actually knew him years
before me and her met. She used to be an
EMT years ago and he had trained her and he
was actually in our wedding party.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
So oh, really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Yeah, we've known old Kevin for quite a while.

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
So let's talk a little bit about how this thing
gets started. So originally you were a guard out at
the Kentucky State Penitentiary.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Am I correct on that, Yes, sir, Yeah, I likes
to between there and another place of the Western Kentucky
Correctional Complex, which is like a minimum to medium security facility.
I had a little bit over ten years, so I uh,
once I went to the penitentiary, it was sort of
a really eye opening experience because you know, for the

(01:22:16):
most part we were dealing with bad chack guys and
low level drug charges and stuff like that at the
at the minimum place. And but you know, once you
once you go through, well you see about seven series
of gates and triple rows of bob wire and gun
tires that were everywhere, and it was like sheesh, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
Yeah, it's a little little wards tense.

Speaker 2 (01:22:36):
This is a real prison, okay, you know, and and yeah,
my my education started quickly.

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
It was it was still in.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
During the time where it's kind of like, hey, here's
your radio, you know, here's some yard keys, walk the yard,
look out for stuff. I mean, it was very like
old beat Coppish, you know, it's just just like here
it is, I mean, at the original the first place,
at the minimum, I was actually trained by a guynamed
Teddy Davenport. He was an inmate. He was in there
for like a vehicular like vehicular manslaughter or stuffing. I

(01:23:05):
think he was drinking and he accidentally hurt some killed
some people. But and he was a local guy. And
I went into my captain and said, hey, sir, you
know you know green is a sapling, right, you know, Hey,
good to meet you, sir, and blah blah blah, and
I'm planning to do a good job and whatever. And
he said okay. I said, well, who's my superior officer?
And he said, oh no, let me get him. And
he said, Teddy. So here's comes this guy with a mop.

(01:23:26):
And I'm looking behind him, like, where's the guy? I said, Teddy,
take him around, show him all those keys, show him
what they do. You know, he knew every one of them.
I mean he you know, he'd been there for probably
probably fifteen years or so.

Speaker 4 (01:23:37):
And uh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
I was like, well, okay, well my first boss is
an inmate. Okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
That's got to be some kind of trust level with
an inmate to just say, hey, here you go train
the guard.

Speaker 2 (01:23:47):
Well, you know, it's it's just you know, it's it's
how do I say it? And then I say it
with all the respect I can. People say, oh, you're
from Kentucky, And the first thing they think is Frankfurt
ertle Xinent or something like that, And I said, no,
I'll see. It's like there's three different sections. There's you know, East, Central,
and Western, and they're just totally different animals, you know.

(01:24:08):
And here it's much more of a Midwestern kind of feel.
A lot of lakes in this area and stuff, and
it's just very it's got that old kind of old
school feel to it, and a lot of times the
ways the prisons will run reflect that. So it's a
lot more like a lot of prisons might have been
ran in the eighties or nineties. You know, we're always

(01:24:28):
a good ten or fifteen years behind on most stuff
like that, which again can isn't always a bad thing,
but that's just the nature of the nature of the
beast with it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
I can't help but to listen to that story, and
in my head I'm picturing like Andy Griffith with the
oldest letting itself in and out of the cell. And
I know it's not nowhere near that level, but in
my head that's kind of what was popping in.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Well, yeah, I mean, now, I mean, once you went
to the penitentiary, it was different because what you had
was it went from so much having a trusted, a
little bit more solid guy to having what they call
the rat system. I've heard years ago when I hired in,
the rat system is as long dead a KSP. And

(01:25:10):
then you come back to training and says, you know,
all that stuff they told you, you forget all that. Okay,
here's where, here's where you really start learning the job. Yes,
the rat system is still very much in place, you know. Yeah,
we watched it to find out what's going with the inmates,
so used to find out what's going with the guards.
Sometimes they're gonna use you know. They didn't say this,
but I know that they would test officers by having
somebody walk up and make sort of off handed Yeah,

(01:25:30):
you know, guys can make a lot of money in here,
you know, just the type of thing like that to
test fellas. And so yeah, I mean that it was
a little bit a little bit more darker. And that's
just the way I had been forever a KSP. That's
what we call Kentucky State Penitentiary. And uh and it's
still that way, and it probably that way till they
shut it down.

Speaker 3 (01:25:49):
Let me let me ask you this from the difference
between the two correctional facilities that you were in. Obviously
one was a lot less pressure than the other. How
what's difference between the two as far as how it
beats down on you as a person. I mean, I
just listened to one of those specials about the whole
Stanford experiment, and right, I can't help but to just

(01:26:12):
think that being in a more maximum security situation, it's
probably got to dwell on you as a person harder
than being any other situation. Am I writing that?

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
Yeah? No, I mean, you know I always took it
into the mind frame of going Look. I looked at
it like, okay, I am I am the sentry at
the gate. Okay. Instead of keeping it, you know, bad
stuff out, I'm keeping bad stuff in. You know, I'm
the guard of the citadels. It was, you know, and
trying to keep these fellows in here because I know,

(01:26:44):
just outside here at homes with children and women and
you know, and my sound sexist, but it's okay, I'm
an old Southerner's how it is. But you know, there's
there's families to protect. And I kind of took it
on as that maybe it's a little high minded, but
that's that's that's how I kind of was able to
cope with it at KSP. Yeah, there was definitely, it

(01:27:05):
definitely waited on you. And then the thing was it
was about and there definitely was the element of conformity
for inmates and for officers. You know, it's it was
all about following the military line of protocol. And that's
the thing. I mean, if I could take a guy
who did twenty years inside and then take a guy

(01:27:26):
who was an officer who did twenty it used to
be like to say, twenty five or thirty years before
it went to hazardous duty, pay, take them out of
the uniform, set them down in front of a you know,
a lake with some fish and poles. And the way
they're talking back and forth in their mannerisms, you would
think that they were either both regards or both were inmates.
You couldn't tell the difference because that becomes so ingrained

(01:27:46):
in you. And you know, even the years of being
out of that type of work, which I was never
a military guy, my brother and my father were. But
you know, I'll still catch myself somebody's saying something to me,
especially if I'm like hurried trying to get through something
on negative negative you need to do this, and I'm

(01:28:07):
like negative when I'm telling them negative, And it's just
one of those quirky things that sticks with you, you know,
and it takes a long time to wash it out
of you. It's like, I don't know, if you ever
caught crawdads or whatever and you want to you know,
before you could try to eat them or anything, you
have to put them in water and that let them
work that mud vein out of them. Yep, there's there's
a lot of there's a lot of mud in that place,

(01:28:29):
you know when it and there's a lot of ways
you have to cure yourself. You definitely have a job
face and a and a home face, you know, and
exactly some guys were never able to differentiate that. And
a lot of times those are the fellas that fell
off into drug use or whatever, and you know, families
break up and and all that stuff, and you find

(01:28:50):
yourself unable to cope with regular people cities or whatever.
All you want to do is talk with other guards
and watch cops and go shooting on the weekends and
then and start running the bar with this and that one.
It's just if you're not very uh, and I don't
count myself necessarily as someone who I necessarily say is
extremely not that I don't want to say I'm not moral.

(01:29:11):
I guess I have a certain certain morals, you know,
But I don't consider myself holier than now. But it's
one of those things if you don't watch yourself, that
rip tid it gets you and you'll really, you'll really
end them some dark spots.

Speaker 3 (01:29:22):
You mentioned yourself as being kind of a gatekeeper in
the mentality of your job is to keep the bad in.
But let's tie that into a little bit about the paranormal. Now,
obviously there's there are some people that have never left,
which causes some of the activity in the place, and

(01:29:43):
which led to you writing a book on it. Tell
me a little bit about some of what you saw
or some of what you've heard during the time there
that led to you actually writing a book on it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:54):
Well, when I hired in there, I think it was
right around the problem mid of October ninety seven, and
my father who's now gone. Both my parents had gone
at this point, but he was still alive, and so
we were talking about this and that, and you know,
he said, son, I really wish you wouldn't take this job.

(01:30:15):
You know, I'm thinking, well, well, what I don't want
to see you get hurt or you know, my dad
was kind of like a cross between like John Wayne
and like like the guy from True Grit, kind of
a rough, tough, old type of guy. And he never
really got personal with me like that. And then I said, well,
you know, I mean I think I knew the job. Said, well,
it's not that he said. I think he I don't

(01:30:37):
think he got the heart for it. At the time.
I was still pretty young in it kind of a
sort of a backhanded compliment, and I didn't quite understand,
you know, when I did the job and did it
pretty well, I think, and and he's like, well, you know,
I'm I was kind of surprised, you know, it seems
like you're all right for it. And but I think
what he was trying to say was it will change you.
And it did change me. You know. It took me

(01:31:00):
years to be able to go to a restaurant and
sit with my back to a window. You know, I'm
used to sitting in a corner boots so i can
watch the activity in the room. You know, That's that's
how I ate for years, you know, you don't want
to have a room full of unwatched inmates rolling behind
your back, you know. But as of the paranormal stuff,
it yeah, I mean, it happened pretty quickly. And what
you got to remember is that when I spoke to

(01:31:22):
one of the old timers, which I was lucky enough
to have the twenty five thirty year old type of
of officers in there training me, when I come in
and they said, look, you know, we're talking about going
through with metal detectors. I said, yah, we can, and
we found quite a bit of stuff. He said, you know,
there's probably not ten feet that there's not either a
weapon or there's been a murder on this yard, you know,

(01:31:44):
And it's just he said, if there's not, if there's
not something here, I'm you know, I'm either hallucinating. And
half the people I know are hallucinating because you know,
it's just it's just happens, you know. I mean, and
I heard mutterings of stories and most time people kind
of joke at all, Well it was probably just a wind,
or it's probably this and that. Nobody wants to be
that guy. Nobody wants to be the quirky ghost guy.

(01:32:06):
Well I was the one has asked questions about it
and said, well, man, you know, I've I've seen some
stuff up in here. I've seen shadows going through the showers,
and I've you know, heard stuff climbing walking down the
middle corrugated steps, you know, and there's no one in there,
and the wall stands and and uh. It became a
thing of oh okay, and then they kind of knew

(01:32:27):
I was not gonna make a joke about it. And
then then it got to the point where younger officers
would come to me and go, hey, here, you know
stuff about ghosts, And I said, well, I mean I've
researched it since I was a kid and studied it
best I can, and you know, pretty much self taught.
I mean, there's that's one thing that kills me. You'll
see folks that go, well, this guy is a expert

(01:32:48):
or a certified this How you can't really certify something
that's unqualifiable, you know. Uh, it's one of those things.
We can we have good guesses, educated guesses, but it's
it's a thing you're not. It's it's just something we
won't know until we're over there. But yeah, but it
got to the point wherein they were coming to me
and talking to me about stuff. And that's when it

(01:33:10):
was like, Okay, well, maybe it's not an imaginary thing.
Maybe it's not me hearing the stores. These kids are
coming off right off the off the bus as it was,
and then they're seeing this and that, and it was
strange when they started seeking me out. So but yeah,
you got to remember this place was built in mid
eight eighteen hundreds, you know, on inmate labor. I mean,

(01:33:31):
every every stone, every brick was put there by through
inmate labor. And you know, even people died doing that.
I mean there was death from the onset of all this.
And you know there's been count you know, multiple executions,
you know, shooting or not not shooting. They don't I
don't think they ever did fire and squad but hangings,

(01:33:53):
executions now the lethal injection, and that's not counting all
the stabbings, you know, the rapes, the you know, bluod
uring and bludgerings and stuff that's happened just inmates, inmate
inmate of officers. It's just, uh, it's just a kill floor.
I mean, that's that's really the best way I can
describe it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Man. That's a. I mean, you could there's a prison
in itself even without any of those things. It's there's
just so much you know, frame of mind there just
everybody just seems so desolate and no future and no hope.
So you could just imagine that alone would be bad enough,
but then you throw in all the the you know,
the murders, and then the uh, the bad actions of

(01:34:33):
of uh either maybe some bad guards down the road
or the bad prisoners acting out against the guards, and
then all the lethal injections and electrocutions. I mean, you
could just imagine this is just a prime setup for
paranormal activity.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
The thing that I've discovered is and the buildings, especially
the original buildings, were all made of limestone. There's a
lot of courts involved there, uh where you have sort
of a what's something called a car system which is
through this area and I'm not sure if it's up
in your area as well. It's a lot of waterways,
a lot of caves, and most of us cut through limestone.

(01:35:11):
You know, limestone has a frequency running water, as I understand,
produces a certain amount of current in a frequency. And
all these things coupled with all the violence, and like
you said, the desolation, the being isolated, being hunted, being fearful,
and then on the other side, being the hunter, always hungry,

(01:35:31):
needed to kill, needed to rave, need of this and that.
Then you have the officers involved, and you've got to
remember there was a time when the officers on average
were not much better than inmates, and so there was
always that game. It was us against them, And there's
still a little bit of that in that. I always
try to kind of avoid those type of folks because

(01:35:51):
it's not where my heart was at. But yeah, I mean,
it's it's pretty much just like layering emotions on psychic energy,
on history, on more violence, you know, and it's just
it's just a heavily condensed negativity in that area. And
and it's you know, I've been to a lot of places.

(01:36:13):
I've investigated a lot of places across the world. You know,
I've checked out places in Thailand and you know in
Asian Asian countries. No check stuff out in Canada in
that area. But I'm trying, I stammer because I'm trying
to word this just right, because it's trying to like
describe a color to somebody, you know, that feeling like

(01:36:35):
you're in school and you have a bully on your back.
I mean, I'm a main, a big bully, and it's
like there's no one, no one's helping you. There's no help,
just like it's not quite panic, but you're hyper aware
that it could pop at any time. It's almost like
sitting there with your face over over a pressure cooker
and you just know any minute it can and it
has popped before, and you're just waiting for it. And

(01:36:58):
that's seems what fuels a lot of that, the fear
and all that. But you know, because like I said,
there have been a lot of riots there and a
lot officers have been heard, a lot of animates have
been murdered, and you know, I've dealt with guys sawing
off I mean they're they're I don't know, they're dicks.
I guess I'm sorry, uh, sawing those off and cutting

(01:37:19):
off other parts of their body and trying to sew
their lips up so their eyes up. Just crazy crazy stuff.
And so yeah, I mean, I know I'm kind of rambling,
but it is just all that goes into the darkness
of it, beyond the being confined for whatever crime you committed.
You know, that's what I'm saying it's.

Speaker 3 (01:37:39):
All so.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
So uh, it's desolate, it's dire, It's really really a dire,
dire area. And and then you know, like you said,
at the end of the day, it got to the
big one of my big reasons for leaving. It's twofold.
It I felt like I was trying to build saying
assles and by the end of the day, that's the

(01:38:03):
water not to them all back down. No matter how
much how high I build it. It just felt like
I was not making really any difference, which is why
you know, I work with special needs adults now you
know which you know, me and my wife are very
involved with advocacy with Epilepsy Foundation and special needs and
things like that, and and that's where our heart was
always has been. But this was this was my This

(01:38:25):
was my day job. But now luckily I can do
that during the day and help folks out when I'm
not riding. But in this second reason, I had a
good friend who was I have a team called the
Calbo County Paranormals, and we do investigations and stuff. I
don't call it a ghost hunting the thing, because first
of all, I don't know if it's a ghost. I
can't tell you what those things are. I would be

(01:38:45):
I could speculate, but i'd be I'd be a liar
if I if I told you, I know, defenditly what
what those are. So, but I had a friend that
was on our team, a good, pretty religious guy, a
Catholic kid, and uh trained him, you know. I remember
when he come in. I trained him and he was
sort of like a little brother to me. And stuff

(01:39:06):
got to the point where he was being oppressed by
so much stuff in the prison. He went well, he
went home one day and put a shotgun in his
mouth and blew his brains to clean out. And that
was probably that was about six months before I left,
because that was a really good Uh I'm gonna say good,
but that was a real sharp shock to my system

(01:39:29):
to go get out, get out. Now you've you've been
wanting to get out, and uh yeah, now it's time
to go.

Speaker 3 (01:39:38):
Let's switch gears a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Uh sure.

Speaker 3 (01:39:40):
So at what point in time did you decide, Hey,
I think I've got enough information here to where I
can write a book that I think people would be
interested in. And when you do get to that point,
what's the next steps to actually turning that into a reality.

Speaker 2 (01:39:57):
Well above and beyond all the stuff with this. I
mean you guys to kind of remember my background. I
was a kid that always grew up and I saw
different things as a kid, and it was exposed to
a different type of paran alem and stuff as a kid,
and I had an interest in it, and so I
studied that in the libraries, you know. So I was
always had an interest in that. And so by the

(01:40:18):
time guys like all Right, Bell come along and all that,
I would be listening to these radio shows and we're fans,
you know, and sometimes i'd call into a show kind
of like, you know, kind of like Kevin did, and
be like, hey, I really like what you guys are doing.
Or I really dug that last guy you had on
you know, his take on his and that is like whatever. Well,
I spoke to a fella and he had written a
book and that I thought was pretty neat anyway, and

(01:40:40):
just touching base with him, and just in conversation, he said, hey,
I see you used to be a guard I said yeah,
and I said, have you ever see anything weird? And
I touched on a few things and said here considered
writing these down. I was like, well, I mean, maybe
just a little short paragraphs from my own remembrances. As
I get older, you know, and all the details get fuzzy.
And he said, uh, do you got maybe a page

(01:41:02):
or two of that? And I said, yeah, you gonna
take a look at it. And he looked at it
and he's like, do you matter if I show listen
to somebody. I'm like, like coo. He says, well, there's
an editor for for a company. It was Permitted Press.
He says, I kind of worked with them, and I
was curious to show it to him. I said, does
he need a good laugh? I said, I'm not a writer,
and he says, well, just humor me. I said, I
mean that's fine. So anyway, uh, A week or two

(01:41:24):
went by and he got back in touch with me
and he said, hey, uh he got any more? He
got any more of those stories? And well, you know,
by then, I've what, say old saying, I've slept since then.
I'm like, what are you talking about? He says, remember
those pages you sent me. I said, oh, yeah, those
little short stories. He said, yeah, what about him? He says,
what do you have more of him? I said, yeah,
I mean, I'm sure I do. I mean, they're just paragraphs.

(01:41:46):
He said. Listen, he said, do you think you'd get me.
You could get me sixty five thousand words? And I said,
for what, you know, and he says, well, for the
book you're going to write. I said, buddy, I've told
you before, I'm not a writer. He says, well, maybe
not yet, you know. And it was that it was
that strange. It was they said, they want to release
your book. And I'm like, oh, you mean the book
I haven't wrote yet. And they said yeah. And so

(01:42:08):
I said, well, let me see what I can do,
you know, and the guy kind of just kind of
grandfathered me through it and sort of showed me, you know,
this is how you do this and that, because, like
I said, I mean, I'm a western Kentucky kid. You know,
I actually left school, you know, in high school and
my man went back and got my GD and stuff.
But you know, and I like to read, but I'm
certainly not an English professor or anything that by that stretch.

(01:42:29):
And uh, but you know, he kind of showed me
some of the stuff that you know, I missed in
some of the classes I didn't go to. But and
it just sort of came like that. And then eventually
the book actually went to print and e books and
stuff like that, and so I was kind of surprised,
but you know, it went on to the point where people,
you know, I was thinking, no one's going to be

(01:42:50):
interested in this book. You know, there might be a
few guards or something, old guards, it was curious about
old stories and stuff. But I was really surprised if folks,
especially in that the initial area, seemed really interested in it.
And which it was surprised me when I was hearing
that people like out of country were buying it or
whatever like that, and it just it struck me weird

(01:43:11):
because I've always tried to stay you know, and have
no reason not to be a humble guy. And it
just kind of was like, okay, what's okay, So that's
going to become a thing. And I thought, well, okay,
this month's interesting, and you know, people to him whatever.
And it's been almost a year and people still seem
interested in it. So during the time, during the time

(01:43:32):
I was putting this book together, our our oldest son
who who we adopted past he had a really hard
seizure and he passed away, and writing the book is
one of the things that kind of helped keep me
focus to kind of cope with cope with that, and
so I just kept writing, you know, I kept writing,
you know about other places I've had interest in. There's

(01:43:54):
a place called the Western Kentucky or the Western Western
State Hospital in Hopkinsville. Obviously Kentucky was usually called the
Western Lunatic Asylum. And so I started working on that,
you know, just to write it down. I did nothing
to want to release it, and which is funny, since
I spoke to you a while back, they had to

(01:44:14):
actually when hid and sit me a contract for that.
So that's hopefully we'll be released in twenty eighteen, probably
spring or summer. But so I guess maybe it's going
to be a thing. I don't see me, you know,
being a jet set or nothing. But I mean, as
long as I'm able to write, and I like writing,
and people seem to seem to enjoy these old stories
and stuff. But you know, the thing was, what's I

(01:44:36):
think struck people as the fact that these are true stories,
These aren't just me dreaming this up. These are people
coming and telling me that. And like with the first book,
I've probably interviewed and got stories from good three to
four hundred people. And what's so weird was like you said,
it's like I've got again. I'm trying to remember who
said these things. Like you have a crowd of people,

(01:44:59):
one person starts up clapping, and maybe one or two
more people everybody else will start clapping. It was like, yeah,
it seemed like once people said, oh, well, okay, it
was okay to talk about these stories because you know
how it is in the South, Well, we just don't
talk about certain subjects, you know, And that's just one
of those subjects they didn't talk about there. And but
once it was kind of opened the floodgate for it,

(01:45:20):
then everybody was coming up to me and signing and going, hey,
well you didn't talk about Receiver's basement, or why didn't
you talk about Kelly Malls. You know, there was a
famous Hounting there and I said, well, I didn't have
enough stories, I didn't have enough details, and he said, well,
let me tell you what I know. And so I'm
actually in the processes while this second book is going
through the final editing and all that I'm actually working on.

(01:45:42):
I follow up for KSP along with another book, which
is about an orphanage slash kind of like a Catholic
church in Morganfield, Kentucky that's had a lot of really
really weird activity going on. So I mean, I'm keeping
pretty busy between dealing with the kids and these two
muchs that are run around my feet, and in my

(01:46:04):
teaching life skills, especially as adults. So I'm staying having.

Speaker 3 (01:46:08):
First of all, I want to do some of my
condolences on the loss of your son.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
Well, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:12):
And then you know, I like the fact that it
seems like most of what you're doing you're concentrating on
the state of Kentucky. So that's kind of a cool thing.
When we started our show, The Whole Hillbilly Horror Stories,
it was originally just going to be based on nothing
but Southern stories because there's the South is rich with

(01:46:33):
those kind of stories. But as we started getting more
and more listeners from all over the country and outside
of the country, we decided to expand that and it
just kind of grew from one thing to another. And
you know, it may be different in the book businesses
may be the same, but you know, we get constant
feedback and it's immediate feedback. We do a show and

(01:46:54):
within a couple of hours we can have people writing
us given their opinion, and that kind of immediate gratification
works well on us be able to make adjustments to
make it a better fit for everybody rather than, you know,
just a certain group of people. So that's how we've
been able to grow the show. Uh. I think maybe
with the writing it may be a little different to

(01:47:16):
where the people who read. I don't think they necessarily
care as much where the locations of the stories are,
as long as it's a good story. But I could
be completely wrong on that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Well, you know, honestly, it depends. That's the thing where
you know, I've had officers since the time I've left.
Uh maybe because once I left, I'll be honest, I
pulled back from a lot of my contacts because I
just wanted to, like you said, clean that mudd thing out.
I want to get all that poisoned out of my
head from the prison. I want to be way away
from it, but slowly in time. The ones that were

(01:47:48):
good fellas, not like good fellas like Joe Pashy, but
good folks that I kept in contact with. You know,
once you're in You're never out that type of thing.
And you know, there's folks that I care about this
to work there, and then we keep in contact. But
as time went on the books come out, I would
have somebody write me like, oh my god, you know,
I've been dealing with whatever for about two weeks. I

(01:48:11):
picked up your book, and it's the exact same situation,
you know. And you know, sometimes it's exactly the same
sort of setup. Sometimes it's increased, sometimes it's decreased. So it's,
you know, even though I'm no longer in the system,
I you know, I say, I was saying, I have
eyes everywhere. I have eyes in there just watching and
giving me feedback about everything. So it's it's really interesting

(01:48:32):
now to do that. And and the thing is you
have some folks, like you said, that just want a
good scare. Then there's also some people that want a
little bit of the history about the place, which I
try to include. I wouldn't necessarily say that I write
in a Southern Gothic style, but there's probably definite elements
of that. I mean, my sort of literary spirit animal

(01:48:55):
was guys like Stephen King, you know. I mean, the
first sign I ever did I had an edge shirt
on and which and then that led me to guys
like Lovecraft and Poe and and a bunch of older, older,
obscure horror writers and sci fi writers. But it's really
strange because when you bump into some people at a signing,

(01:49:16):
maybe you know them, maybe they work at your Walmart,
or maybe they whatever, and or they'll have a story like, well,
you my granddaddy or my late husband or my whatever
work down there, and my my son's going there now.
I'm buying the book for him to kind of keep
an eye for some of this stuff. So it's almost
like a it went from just an entertaining read, hopefully
to somebody's memories and somebody's and they're almost like preparing

(01:49:39):
these kids, like now, look, if you see this, don't
freak out. You know, mister Asher saw this, and this
is how he dealt with it. So it's almost like
a preparatory type thing, you know, for some of these kids,
and which is humbling, and it's sort of really extremely
weird at the same time because here here, I don't
know if you guys have like options and Optimist clubs

(01:49:59):
and things like that, Well we had, which is basically
like they helped like the youth of the local area
and they raise money to get you know, kids that
needs shoes, shoes for school. And anyway, they were having
an auction and they said, hey, do you have anything
you want to put an auction? And I'm still sitting
here like I don't know, I might have like some
uh some ocarosene heaters or something. And they said, well, well,

(01:50:20):
we were thinking more like your book. And I'm like yeah,
and back of when I don't know we wouln't want
to buy my book, but it was like, well, I
mean I guess I could. And I started making Uh
are you familiar with what a chid is? Uh? Is?

Speaker 3 (01:50:34):
Is that the the little around metal pieces that you yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (01:50:39):
Kind of like like they're using the uh the coal mines.
I got a friend of mine, uh he's up from
New Mexico and and uh, I says, he says, you
know what a chid is? He said, I've had many.
I said, no, no, it's not not not that type
of a ship a piece of metal, which they they
did have the phrase whenever you would come in there
because you have to have that to get certain tools,
so they know who who has what what stuff. It says,

(01:51:02):
you know, look, you don't got shit, you ain't getting shit,
so which I don't know. I always thought that was
kind of funny. But but now you know, I started
marketing a little bit of stuff I'm making, you know,
like bookmarkers, book marker chits, you know, with the reven
you can put them in your book and find your page,
and key chains. And it's weird to the point now
where because a lot of times people will request like

(01:51:23):
eight x ten like a promotional thing, and which is
super awkward because I'm just big, kind of like, I
don't know, it's like if Uncle Fester was a prison guard,
that's kind of what I looked like, so or something like, yeah,
somebody says, no, I mean, you look more like Butter
being the wrastler. I said, thanks, buddy, I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (01:51:43):
Jck. That's so much more of a compliment.

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
Yeah, I think I'll stick with Fester if you're okay
with you. But but yeah, I mean, and that was
really nice. And so it's so strange to see that.
But the thing is, like you said, even after these years,
I'll still wake up thinking I'm in the middle of
account and the count keeps changing, or that I'll go

(01:52:08):
down the halls and I'll come back up and it's
I'm in a different cell house. And then there's stuff
going on in the cell house that I can't stop,
like ghostly stuff and wake up, you know, like nightmares
and stuff. So I mean that stays with you. I mean,
I don't know if you'd call that PTSD or something,
but it definitely just your mind revisits stuff, and I

(01:52:28):
catch my stuff, especially more I write about stuff, it
does that. And but what I've tried to do was
I try to keep when I write about stuff. I
write about stuff it's kind of fantastical, but I try
to make it where it's common, to where everybody can
relate to it. And there's just different stuff, you know,
I find interesting. You know, everybody knows the haunted house

(01:52:50):
in town. Everybody knows, you know, some old legend about
old country road, just that type of kind of If
you guess you want to call it homespun, that's fine,
but that's okay, you know, I'll roll with that. But
but yeah, that's that's the that's the thing I've I've
if I I guess, if I've got a niche it's that,
you know, I do try to write a lot about
Kentucky in the South just because there's so much you get,

(01:53:14):
so much negative type stuff and so much stereotypical stuff.
It's just one of those things, like you said, it's
it's good to see that there's other facets two people
in the South and other than you know, wearing overalls
with a jug with the ex's on it and all
that mess.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
Well, do me a favor. Let's look back to the uh,
the book Hauntings of the Kentucky State Penitentiary and and
give me a story out of that. That was one
of your favorites to write about.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
Oh my goodness. Well, I mean, I'll tell you I've
I've had a couple different little situations with myself. There's
a place called four Cell House and there the way
it's set up, it's like, uh, how did I describe this? Okay,
It's like if you have two halves of like you
cut a watermelon and a half. You know how you
got seeds up one side, then it on flipped it

(01:54:04):
over on the other side, and it's got seeds going
off the other side with a little little slight divider
between the seeds and down the middle. Well. The way
the salehouse was set up. It was tiered, probably seven
tiers high. There's a left side it's divided by gates,
and then on the other sides it's divided by gates.
On the right, which is called riverside because it faces

(01:54:24):
the Cumberland River which runs through there now, and the
other side is the prison side, which is face is
a prison. Anyway, I was working the control centers and
kept seeing weird movement in the back of twenty river,
which is at the very bottom. It's a walk by itself.
It's connected with the showers. Well. I kept seeing this
and that, and long story short, saw like orbs and

(01:54:47):
just weird stuff. But it's not just like a dust orb,
but like it glue. It's almost like you put like
a glow stick in a in a neon or like
a white balloon, and just like a really bright neon stick.
And it it would come up and down the hall
do kind of loopy loops and ended up shooting past
the camera run out of my sight, which I was
inside the control center so I couldn't get out. And

(01:55:09):
I kept kind of seeing this, and the officer come
by and was asked me about it, and well it
happened again, you know, and finally it was almost the
end of the ship. He's like, ashuy, what are you seeing?
I know something's going on with you. You'd look white
as a sheet. And I said that you'll think I'm nuts.
You know, it's you know, I'm only been here about
four months. He says, I almost guarantee I won't. You know.
It was an older guy, real laid back. I said, well,

(01:55:32):
I kept seeing this weird kind of shadow. It kind
of like an orb or something, almost like a crew
out of it, almost like a bubble coming out of water.
And he kind of noticed and yeah, sounds about right.
I said, what what what the heck is that? Have
you seen it? He says, Man about everybody is that
this works, and that control center seeing it and they said, uh,
that used to be the old death row and a
lot of a lot of the guys that were on

(01:55:53):
that wall for the guys that were going to be executed,
said also, there's been a whole lot of stabbings right
right in that area of that fence, so you know,
And that was something I personally saw. Probably my favorite
was a story of Old Red. There was a fella
who I trained again. And I knew this boy since
he was fifteen or sixteen years old. Here in the South,

(01:56:15):
there was not a whole lot to do but hit
country roads and you know, have a beer, listen to music.
You know, that's how a lot of teenagers did that
back then. And so anyway, this boy used to come
into the store I worked and kind of kept him
out of trouble. But anyway, as he got older, he
come to work there, and he was working down in
the infirmary and kept noticing this weird, weird sounds, weird ratlings, tapping, scraping,

(01:56:42):
and he thought maybe there's a guy in the hospital
being treated, and he thought maybe he was trying to
break out. So he kept checking it out. The guy
wasn't doing anything, and he noticed, you know, the locks,
there's padlocks. There's like feed trays on the bottom of
these doors. And he would see the locks raise up
like just look, somebody's suspecting it and slams down. And

(01:57:03):
the next one on down the walk lift up like
he's looking at it, slamming down all the way up
and down the road, all throughout that walk. And he
started having that sort of having the lights flickering in
this anyway, it culminated with he was about ready to go.
He was about ready to leave. I mean, he was like,
I'm not about to do this. And he said, you know, look,
I only got like an hour or so left. I'm

(01:57:24):
gonna get me a cup of coffee, calm on nerves,
and I'm very seriously thinking about dropping a dropping a
letter up that I'm done in the captain's box in
the morning and I'm gone. Well, he was in the kitchen,
a little kitchen itt and h he's trying to make
some coffee, and you know that feeling like you feel
somebody walking behind you. He got that feeling. And I'm

(01:57:44):
sure I don't know if you've ever you know, granddad, uncle. Heck,
maybe you've done it yourself. Sitting therefter, maybe eating steak
or something, get like a little piece of meat in
your teeth, you get little tooth pick and kind of
like that. Yeah, well he had that right by's ear.
He dropped that coffee. I telled it, I mean dropped
in on the floor, just left it, run up to

(01:58:05):
the front desk and he called me and he was
the only other head. You're the only person I could
think of the only person that might not think I'm crazy. Iss, Well,
what's going on? And he said, man, there's this stuff
down here, spooks or something. And I said, okay, let
me let me guess. So I started talking about the locks,

(01:58:25):
talking about the lights, and he said, yeah, man, how
did you know? I said, okay? He said, were the footsteps?
He said, yeah, there was footsteps as I was leaving
the kitchen. I said, okay, but it ain't a regular step,
is it? And he said no, it wasn't really like rubber.
It's it is almost like a clop like a wooden hill,
ain't it. He said, how did you know that? He says,

(01:58:46):
I've dealt with the same thing down there. And the
story was there was a trustee and mad trustee when
there was an old another old infirmary in there, and
apparently there's a young guy that got man handled by
some older guys and they were afraid they were he
was gonna red on them and get them more time.
So supposedly they set fire to the old infirmary and

(01:59:07):
to kill this kid. So anyway, Red which is guy's
name was Red. He was kind of like a kind
of a red bone guy, you know, a mixed guy.
So anyway, he's running trying to get these guys out. Well,
he supposedly got all all the staff out and found
the boy who I think. I think the kid that
they attacked was a little special needs, and I think

(01:59:28):
that's another reason it stays with me. But anyway, he
was hold up on the bed scared. He carried them out,
and you know, by the time he finally got everybody out,
he'd got a lot of burns, a lot of smoke
in relation, and supposedly he passed on from from the injuries. Well,
some of the equipment that was in the old church
went down there, including some of his old you know,
like mops and things and stuff like that. So I

(01:59:50):
think things that considered his livelihood went into the to
the new hospital. And I said, look, he's just making rounds.
I said, that's what they used to do. Stas would
check locks, trustees would do this and that. I said,
just tell them to say, hey man, I got this,
go lay down, we thank you, I've got this. Well

(02:00:11):
he went out there and did that, and within that
next hour things stop and he was able to stay there.
He worked there for another six or seven years before
he went into like a probation parole. So it's it's
that kind of weird, quirky connection I think I'll always
have with the place. And and that's the sort of
things you deal with. I mean, you deal with stuff

(02:00:32):
scratching at people. You have you know, things moving around
in cell houses. You have you know, doors grabbling like
somebody's kicking the crap out of them. You know, people
let them downstairs, People throwing things, people touching and getting touched,
having a hair pool, having their having their equipment moved
around like somebody's just clowning them. It's just it's just

(02:00:53):
it covers the it covers the gamut and that it
goes beyond just inside there, because there was a lot
of stuff going on outside of the walls too, because
there's trustees out there and there's people you know that
had got hurt. But you gotta remember, I mean, this
place has a still has the dungeon under the prison
where they would lash guys and hang them up on

(02:01:15):
the walls and just let them sit there. You know,
they hearrib so Walven come in there, throw throw water
in their face and just to remind them, hey, you
know you messed up. This is what happens when you
mess up. And to this day we had had a flood.
I don't know if it was two thousand and nine,
two thousand and eight, and I was they had the
floors lifted up in the main main part of the

(02:01:36):
admin building because and I was hearing Someone was like,
what is that noise? I said, is there pipes busted loose?
And said no, that's the water from the flooding out
of this pipe up in the yard. I said, well,
why am I hearing clanging? And then said here, come here,
and he flashed the light down there, and you could
still see those old chains rattling against the walls. I mean,
I mean it's still there. I mean it's been saying
and anything connected with that type of tortuous ordeals, you know,

(02:02:01):
I don't see how it couldn't carry something with.

Speaker 3 (02:02:03):
It, especially with all that limestone. You know, you'd touched
on it earlier. But I mean, it's it's it's pretty
common belief out there that there's anything that's heavily limestone.
That stuff just kind of holds all that energy in, right.

Speaker 2 (02:02:16):
And that's the thing too, Is that again about the South,
we we we cling to our to some of our ways,
good bad, and that memory is like it seems like
a lot of times in bigger cities, which you know,
I like bigger cities, but I can't I couldn't live
in one. But it's a thing where everything's so fast.

(02:02:38):
There's a building here two years ago it's getting knocked
down for a new building. So the landscape is totally
constantly changing. In the South, you know, we see like
houses are like old Annabellum style homes or whatever. It is, like, wow,
what a treasure. We need to keep it like that.
You know, it's there's just a different mindset. And I
think for the fact, almost in a way, I guess
you could say, uh we respect ghosts in that point

(02:03:03):
of the old times, and uh so maybe we kind
of facilitate that a little bit. In fact, I don't
know if you I don't know if you can hear this.
I'm we're about two streets down from the Methodist Church
and their bells are going off. So if you're hearing
a playing, I think it was like how sweet the
art or something it sounds like. But anyway, again, that's

(02:03:23):
just another facet of this area. And I like that.
It's it's sort of a sort of a bittersweet thing.
That's what that's what I love about writing about this
area because there is so much history here and uh
but you know, and that's and even in the prison systems,
you know, there's there's elements there. They'll still when it's
time for lock up. They don't have buzzers. They go

(02:03:45):
out there and clang a bell, ding ding ding, and
they know it's lock up.

Speaker 7 (02:03:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:03:51):
And could they update it? Sure? But why I fix
it if it ain't broken?

Speaker 3 (02:03:58):
Well, Steve, it's been an absolute play as you're having
you on the show. It's been a fun, fun talk to.
But I believe or not, we've been talking for almost
forty five minutes and it just seems like it's been
about ten minutes. But the book is Hauntings of the
Kentucky Penitentiary, Kentucky State Penitential right, Kentucky State Penitentiary. And
why don't you tell everybody the easiest way to get

(02:04:18):
a copy of that book and be able to stay
in contact with you on social media?

Speaker 2 (02:04:22):
Well, I'm on you know, let me see, let me
let me go through the list. I'm on Facebook, I'm
on Twitter, I'm on Google, I'm on a whole lot
of different sites. But I do have a website which
is all lovercasing together. It's Steve with an E. There's
no diet or a capitalized nothing. It's like Steve with

(02:04:43):
an extra E. And then ashure dot com, which will
take you to like all the different social media sites
and all that. But also you can find my book
on It should be ordered through most book companies, bookstores,
but also Amazon. If most people go to Amazon Books
a million places like that, and I urge the reader

(02:05:06):
if they do seem to like it. If they don't mind,
maybe go on Amazon or good Reads and you know,
give me a little uh, give me a little ratings there.
It always helps to kind of get it out into
bigger markets and which, you know, if someone wants to
contact me directly, and like I said, it's you know,
if it's about the book or whatever, that's fine. I
don't want anything about you know, penis and largement pills
or anything crazy like that. I don't want any spam.

(02:05:27):
But my personal email is and I'll explain what it's
called this because you're looking at me funny. It's all
lower case together. I L A S H E R
S at yahoo dot com. Now I know that says Eyelashers,
and I'll explain why.

Speaker 6 (02:05:48):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:05:48):
At the time when my wife helped me set up
that email, we were living in southern Illinois and which
is basically western Kentucky but with a little bit of
higher a little bit of higher what do you call
it a credit score? But when she set it up,
she was going to put a space or a dash
or something, but for whatever reason, she didn't. So I
got to tell people that my email is Eyelashers at

(02:06:11):
yeahoo dot com. It gives me some looks, but that's okay.

Speaker 3 (02:06:15):
Well, and just for the record, those penis and largement
pills don't work, so I'm dang just so don't waste
your money on them. Should that come around, like I've
done seven or eight different.

Speaker 2 (02:06:24):
Times, I'll just get my wife some like stronger glasses.

Speaker 3 (02:06:27):
That's that's that's what it's all about. Well it is, Steve.
Hopefully we can get you back on when when some
of these other books are released and we can talk
about them as well.

Speaker 2 (02:06:36):
Man. That sounds great, man, I appreciate it. And again,
like I said, anybody wants to look into some of
the you know, keeping up with some of my stuff
on the other books. You can go to two permuted
press dot com. That's my my publisher, and feel free
to leave comments and suggestions and all that good stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:06:54):
Well, thank you, Steve. It's been a pleasure and we'll
talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (02:06:57):
All right, brother, I appreciate you having me on. Take
care and blessed.

Speaker 3 (02:07:00):
Thanks. I want to say a big thank you to
Steve Asher. Now that was a fun interview.

Speaker 7 (02:07:05):
Yeah it was, Steve. It was very entertaining. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:07:07):
And I'm gonna go ahead and post on the Facebook page.
It's a good time. Tell everybody go to our Facebook page,
Healy Horror Stories. Find us on Twitter. But I'm going
to actually post a link to Amazon where you can
actually buy the book from there.

Speaker 7 (02:07:19):
Yes, please do. Very interesting.

Speaker 3 (02:07:21):
And next week's show is on the Mall dire I
don't expect anybody to know what that is.

Speaker 7 (02:07:26):
I don't even know what that is.

Speaker 3 (02:07:28):
Well, and you don't know what it will be when
we sit down to the mics either. But it's gonna
be a really cool show. I think you'll know this.
I hope you've enjoyed the show. This show was almost
two hours long, so for those of you who've been
wanting a longer show, you got it, so we'll see
you guys next week.

Speaker 7 (02:07:43):
Peace Out,