2054 ' Beast of Bray Rd, the Son of Sam killings and Ryan from Rumor Flies

Tracy and Jerry discuss Wisconsin' Beast of Bray Rd, the Son of Sam killings and Ryan from Rumor Flies comes on to tell us about haunted bars in New Orleans and an Axe Man of New Orleans twist that you definitely want to hear!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast is part of the Bomb Pardon Media Network.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's about to be your pune ride, follow a law
watch as we slide heavy, normal, just hit the lights,
goose bumps off through the night, mixing just a little
bit of Twain that girl show. Can't do a thing together. Here,
Billy's gonna win Thane. That's so hard that it hurt
your brain? How can't you won't ever change? He's still here,
he got the recipe, sat on back and listen in
just some of undarks Mystery Day, Welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
To her Billy Horse Stories and now here's your host.
There you Tracy Pauline and their dog Mension.

Speaker 4 (01:05):
Hey, this is Tony Merkle, host of The Confessionals, a
bomb Pop Media network podcast that brings you weekly interviews
with eyewitness accounts of strange and unexplained events, from paranormal
activity to UFO encounters to bigfoot sightings. Step into the
Confessionals as we explore mysterious and real life stories. Check
us out on your favorite podcast app or The Confessionals
podcast dot com. And many thanks to Hillbilly Horror Stories

(01:26):
for having me on the show. I'll see you all
on The Confessionals.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Hll right guys, and welcome to episode sixty of Hibbily
Horror Stories. This is Jerry and I'm joined by my
lovely wife Tracy.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
Hey, guys, how are you well.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
We've got a surprise for you. We're actually on vacation
this week, and we're actually, as we speak, we were
at Scarefest, and well not as we speak, because actually
this is in advance, but when you're hearing this, we're
actually going to be just getting back to Scarefest, and
we didn't really have an opportunity to do a full
show like we normally would. So I went to our

(02:28):
fantastic Patreon listeners and I said, hey, we're going to
be out of town and we're got scare Fest, but
we don't want to not have a show out that week.
We've went almost roughly sixty weeks obviously without missing a show,
and we don't want to miss this week. And as
you know, our Patreon subscribers who actually pay anywhere from

(02:51):
a dollar to ten dollars a month, they get bonus episodes.
And I asked those guys, I said, look, I know
you pay for this, but would you guys be okay
if we took one of these bonus episodes that has
done just like a regular show and put it up
that week that we're out. That way, it fixes two problems.
First of all, you get a show instead of us,

(03:12):
and we get a break, So not that we need
a break, but we do need a break, so but
it gives us a much needed week off. But at
the same time, we don't miss a show. So you're
going to get to hear what the Patreon listeners get
to listen to. And it's also going to be good
for you guys to see that because a lot of
shows when they do Patreon, they'll release a couple of
bonus episodes to everybody so you can see what you're

(03:33):
going to get, and we didn't do that. So you guys,
if you're not a Patreon you really don't even know
what these bonus shows are like. So this is going
to give you a taste of what the bonus show is.
What we're going to be talking about tonight. It's a
two parter. It's going to be on the Son of
Sam and most people will tell you this may be
our best show that we did on Patreon, and it's

(03:54):
one of the best shows that we've ever done. So
I think you're gonna enjoy it. But we do Son
of Sam and then we go into the Beast of
Bray Road, so you get a little bit of paranormal,
a little bit of true crime. These episodes are always
an hour or so, but I also wanted to make
sure that our Patreon listeners didn't get shafted this week,
and the only episodes up one they've already heard. So

(04:16):
what we're going to do is we have at the
very beginning of the show, I did a really cool
interview with Ryan from Rumorflies. They're actually part of the
Dark Men's Collective, the group that we're in, and he
came on and did about forty minutes of talking about
haunted bars in New Orleans, because that's where they're from.
And he did forty minutes talking about haunted bars, and

(04:37):
he's got a cool ass story that ties in with
the axe murder deals that we did with the Axe Man,
because they were right in that area with the Axe
Men of New Orleans, and there is actually a woman
that at one point in time with a cult that
they are trying to pin a lot of these on
and it's a fascinating story. And he's going to come

(04:59):
on and tell you about that. So that's how we're
gonna start off. We're gonna do forty minutes with them.
I think you're really going to enjoy them. He's a
great storyteller. And then we're going to go into the
bonus episode. And so when it's all said and done,
you're going to end up with about a two hour
show tonight. So not too bad for us having a
week off.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Yeah, we appreciate you guys understanding and being patient. And
it's not that we need a vacation from this part
of our lives as we need a vacation from the
working part of our life.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, we like this party, but when you combine the
two together, it's daunting. I mean, when you think about it,
I mean, I'm not looking for any kind of sympathy,
but the reality of it is, we started this right
before I had my heart surgery, and over the last year,
I took four weeks off for heart surgery that was
supposed to be six to eight weeks and jumped right
into work in six days a week, seventy hours a week,

(05:48):
plus twenty hours a week on the podcast, not including
the extra episodes we do for basically over a little
over a year now and I am worn out. I'm
not gonna lie, so it'd be nice to actually get
all this done in advance and have some fun. But
we appreciate all you guys, and we love you, and uh,
that's why we didn't want to have a week where

(06:09):
you didn't have an episode. We know some of you
really depend on these to get you through your horrible mondays,
so we appreciated and this is what we did for you.
And like I said, we went the extra mile to
get some extra bonus episode uh in there for the
people who have already heard this one. So we love
you guys, and enjoy and we will see you next week.
I'm joined on the phone now with Ryan from Rumor

(06:32):
Flies and Ryan, you guys are are part of our
The Dark Myth collective, so you're a brother so to speak.
And you got a really cool show. And I first
found out about your show when you did a crossover
episode with a Mad Scientist podcast, which we've had Chris
on our show before, and I thought it was a

(06:53):
fascinating and that's that's really the show that got me
looking listening to your backlog. So tell me a little
bit about out your show. What draws the listeners in
what do you guys? What is the main premise of
your show every week? And who's a part of it?

Speaker 6 (07:09):
So I think one of our guys, Greg has a
better tagline than me for it, and I'm going to
steal it from He says that Rumor Flies looks into
the myths, misconceptions, and general urban legends throughout everyday culture,
and we try to get to the bottom of it
through anything from just BookSmart it's easy google searches. Nothing

(07:30):
that is like heavy testing or research, not like MythBusters
to say, where you just go out and test stuff
in a labs, which I love we have.

Speaker 7 (07:36):
One, but we don't.

Speaker 6 (07:39):
But in general, we just try to get to the
original source of all these myths and misconceptions anywhere between
history to food, to mass media to sports, just for
anything you could think of. The only thing we don't
really touch is religion or politics, but everything else is
pretty much on the table, and we do everything we

(08:00):
can to find the original source of where this rumor started,
or even if it's true. Usually it's hard to get
both at the same time, but sometimes we do, and
occasionally we try to keep it a little bit lighthearted
if possible.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
Yeah, you guys do a good job of interacting with
each other, so it is a really lighthearted show. It's
really fun. Give a couple of examples of some show
topics you guys have had over the course of your podcast.

Speaker 6 (08:27):
Oh boy, some stuff that's as simple as you know.
Was the cocaine and Coca Cola. The album was always
a pretty big favorite. The whole thing of was Walt
Disney Frozen, one of my favorite ones. That happens to
be a history one, even though I'm not a history major.
Paul Revere, the guy that did the ride, and you know,
the British are coming. The British are coming, simple one

(08:47):
for that one. Number one, there were several people. Number two,
he got caught halfway and didn't make it. Other people did.
He got turned away and they just took his horse
and he needed to walk back. Number three, everybody was
British back then. That was not exactly a good thing
to say. They actually said the regulars are coming. So
it's stuff like that you don't even think of, really
like the British or coming type of deal that I love.

(09:09):
It's one if those were there's a little bit of logical.
Once it hits you, you're just like, wow, okay, now
that doesn't make any sense at all. So it's that
type of stuff. Another another off the top example is
and we just like looked up the whole myth about
you know, the head can survive when it's decapitated for
some odd amount of seconds after you know it's chopped off.

(09:31):
I know that's one of the garier ones. But the
tell Billy horror stores a figure I can talk about it.
It's true from all accounts that they've seen. They haven't
done it recently because there's something called ethics and science now.

Speaker 7 (09:42):
But now, But apparently back.

Speaker 6 (09:45):
Then they did tests and they had a few volunteer executions.
Well I guess execution ees. I guess that's what you
call them. Just say, all right, you're gonna blink a
few times after you get your head chopped off, and
we're gonna keep trying to wake you up as it's going.
And it turns out that there was some it's seems
like conscious response. So stuff like that is fascinating to me.
And then there's just stuff like you know, how to
see her the perfect steak. You know, it's just those

(10:08):
two go hand in they cover everything. Yeah, oh yeah,
what's better an execution than a barbecue afterwards?

Speaker 3 (10:14):
That's right either way it goes, it's getting frat up.

Speaker 6 (10:17):
Oh yeah, so I'm gonna get the cheek has the
most fatinet, you know. Okay, I'll stop with cannibalism.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
So let me ask you this, Uh what made you
guys start the show? And who else is on the show?
I know Greg's on the show? Is it just you two?
Or occasionally there's somebody else? Correct?

Speaker 6 (10:34):
So the two main hosts Josh and myself and Greg
likes to consider himself a well we consider him it too,
a producer and fact checker. He doesn't like to take
the mic as much for this show because generally Josh
and I have known each other since Jesus sixth grade
I think now. But to start with, Greg had a

(10:56):
podcast previously called Projecting and it was kind of just
an interview podcast where.

Speaker 7 (11:02):
He talked to anybody.

Speaker 6 (11:04):
And I had known Greg from high school. Then we
caught back up after not talking for some add amount
of years, just you know, we went to different colleges
and everything went on. There. Talked a little bit about
my recent like when I used to work in a
lab about I went on to show it pretty much
clear from stuff about a the whole steering stake thing,
you're not supposed to do it. And then I talked

(11:24):
to clear up some you know, misconceptions about GMOs because
it's one of the things I'm also very passionate about. Afterwards,
he was like, that was really great, Like you ever
thought about starting a podcast? And I was like, yeah, well, yeah,
actually I have. And it was kind of me pitching
the idea of rumor Flies to him. He thought it
was really cool. And at the same time I had
talked to Josh, who I, you know, hang out with

(11:46):
regularly and he's the one I have the best rapport
with when it comes just back and forth. And you know,
he's a smart guy too. So we decided to, you know,
all three start up and get this thing going and
it's just history from there.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
And and my apology to joshuse that's what I actually
meant to say when I said Greg, because I know
Greg gives a little more in the background. But for
some reason, I guess because I talked to Greg earlier,
he was in the forefront of my mind.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
Yeah, we have the problem with the stick when he's
on air.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
So the one of the reasons that you're on the
show tonight is you had said that, you know, you
kind of like the paranormal, the kind of spooky, the
kind of eerie, creepy kind of stories, true crime, that
and such, that you guys don't deal with a whole
lot on your show, and oh yeah, and I said, Hey,
it'd be cool if you want to come on and
talk about some of that stuff on this show. So

(12:35):
I think you actually worked up some stories to talk about.

Speaker 7 (12:39):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 6 (12:40):
One of them is longer than the rest of them.
The main one I want to talk about is somebody
named Clementine Bonnabey as they would say in Cajun country.
But essentially I want to talk a little bit about her,
who is a very uncovered, undercovered or miscovered or I
don't know. I haven't seen a lot about her on

(13:01):
many other podcasts or many mass media. There's only a
few articles about them, and it's kind of I had
to kind of throw them all together to get some
of the facts straight. And then also you had mentioned
that you were kind of interested in some of the
haunted New Orleans bars and rumor Flies is based out
of New Orleans, and some of these bars that I
can actually talk about are actually my favorites.

Speaker 7 (13:23):
That I are in the area.

Speaker 6 (13:25):
Awesome, So, so which one you want first?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
The bars are Clementine, let's go ahead and do uh,
let's go ahead? Which one is the longer story that
you say?

Speaker 6 (13:35):
Clementine is the longer one.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Let's let's go ahead and knock the bars out and
we'll finish up with Clementine.

Speaker 6 (13:40):
Sure, all right, so the bars is pretty short. There's
actually a lot, a lot, a lot of supposedly haunted
bars in New Orleans. However, I think a lot of
them are actually not to demystify anybody in the show.
I think a lot of them are really just for
tourist attractions. You know, they'll say anything is haunted just

(14:01):
to get a few people in. And New Orleans has
a very rich history. It's one of the oldest cities
in the Southern United States. It's older than the United
States itself. And some of the bars I'm about to
mention are as well. And of course there's gonna come
some war. You know, we had the Great Fire of
New Orleans. You guys have covered several paranormal things in

(14:22):
New Orleans, such as the Axe Man of New Orleans
supposedly if that's paranormal or You also covered Clementine, not Clementine,
Delphine l Lari who I actually very much liked that episode.
It was a good explanation. But there are tons of
there's tons of history. The ones were built up upon
itself several times. As you may have known, the House

(14:45):
of the Rising Sun. There's like six different locations that
they think might be the House of the Rising Sun, and.

Speaker 7 (14:50):
They dig up a new one like every five.

Speaker 6 (14:53):
Years or so. It's really a mysterious city for the
most part. I love it and hate it at the
same time, but mostly love anyway. So we'll get started
with the first one that is probably the most famous.
You mentioned Lafitte's Blacksmith's Shop particularly to me, and this
one is actually my favorite bar in the city. It
is originally built in seventeen seventy two and is regarded

(15:17):
as being the oldest building used as a bar. And
I say building uses a bar because there's some place
in Rhode Island that is supposedly the longest running bar
in the United States. Now it's called Defeats Blacksmith's shop
because it supposedly during the time of the Battle of
New Orleans and during the Spanish occupation. During the French occupation,

(15:38):
Jean Lafitte apparently went there a whole lot to make
plans for whatever plunder he was doing, or whatever battle
plans he was planning, or whatever treasures he was planning
to bury. Apparently he frequented that place constantly. And this
building actually does look starkly different from everything else around it.
It's one of the only buildings still left in the

(16:00):
French Corps that has like the original French architecture from
that time that has been minimally rebuilt from it. Actually
did catch on fire one or two times, I believe,
but it's survived and it's still there. It's awesome inside.
When you walk in, there's only candle lighting in there.
They have great drinks. It's always pretty crowded, but it's
because it's so famous. There's a piano in the back

(16:22):
where there's always a piano player that I'll just do
any request want. The atmosphere is amazing. Now that being said,
it also is a place to get trash if you
really want to, because you know, the drinks are actually
pretty cheap compared to most of the French quarter. Now
for the hauntings, some of the law around it is
that there's a fireplace in the middle of the bar,

(16:44):
right by the actual bar where you get your drinks at,
and in this fireplace they believe that Jean Lafitte actually
had buried some of his treasure. And that sounds like
kind of a strange place to do that, because it's
kind of the most hidden in plain sight type of places,
and it doesn't seem.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
Like you need a lot to you know, dig it up.
But I like the myth.

Speaker 6 (17:06):
I very in a different state of mind. Nearly climbed
into that fireplace one time, but that's for.

Speaker 7 (17:12):
Another day now.

Speaker 6 (17:15):
After that, they also believe that Jean Lafitte himself has
haunted Lafitte's Blackmouths Shop ever since he died. And everybody
says the whole normal issue of they see a man
in the back darkened corner of Lafitte's, which you have
to believe that because it is extremely dark back there,
especially if some of the candles goes out. They believe
they see a man in a you know, what's the

(17:38):
word for it. Not a typical anachronous clothing then right
now where it looks like he's from the Revolutionary War
times and he's like twirling his mustache and has his
black gloves. At the same time, you see much crazier
shit in Bourbon Street, So it could be just a
regular person. I've seen many Jean Lafitte impersonators down there too. Also, well,

(18:01):
I'm just gonna say, I know I'm covering the haunted bars,
but I think the last person I want to trust
about a haunting that is freshly drunk while telling the story,
you know, So, I mean, who knows it might be
Jean Lafitte, but this guy actually he does the rounds
because the next place I want to talk to is
another place that's very confused. Also, to continue before you

(18:25):
get off of Lafat's blacksmith's shop, apparently Marie Leveaux and
Delphine Lalarie herself have been seen at or around Lafitte's
blacksmiths shop. Well, so there's a famous cast of characters
hanging around that bar.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, I mean, why wouldn't they be. I mean that's
you know, yeah, it's like set. He's like the old
the pictures you always see of like James Dean and
Marilyn Monroe and Elvis on the same picture.

Speaker 6 (18:47):
Actually, yeah, right next door, they have a twenty seven
club with Kurt Cobain and you know what's her name,
Janice Joplin hanging out with Jimi Hendrix too. They have
an old timey New Orleans We died near these bars
club too.

Speaker 3 (18:59):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (19:00):
So continuing on, and also, that's a strange cast character.
If you think you have a guy that's a pirate
or privateer depending on who you're speaking to, a voodoo queen,
and then the exact opposite of voodoo queen, Delphine Lalari
is a miserably bad person, or at least was. Maybe
she still is in the afterlife now, but I don't

(19:21):
see them having much in common. But continuing on, We're
gonna go to another place called Lafitte's an Exile. Now
a lot of people confuse this place with Lafittes Blatsmouth's Shop,
but they are in the same area and they both
hold a certain title. Lafittes Blatsmouth Shop is one of
the oldest buildings of the United States to be used

(19:41):
as a bar, and Lafitte's an Exile is the oldest
gay bar in the country, so they both have their
own claim to fame. Now, supposedly, Lafitte's an exile has
frequented by Tennessee Williams himself, the person who wrote Street
Car Named Desire. You know Stanley and what's her name? Stella? Yeah, Stella,
And I'm trying to think of the mistress's name, Blanche

(20:04):
the bla. So Tennessee Williams, the writer of the play
Street Care Named Desire.

Speaker 7 (20:09):
He is well known in this area.

Speaker 6 (20:12):
And also he apparently has frequented this bar and is
now still frequenting it in the afterlife. But guess who
else is.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Who?

Speaker 6 (20:24):
Jean Lafitte and Marie Levo.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Of course they are, of course they are. Well, they're
probably coming for the drag shows.

Speaker 6 (20:31):
Oh yeah, definitely, most certainly.

Speaker 7 (20:33):
I mean, who wouldn't. They're fun.

Speaker 6 (20:35):
But anyway, apparently they really like frequent in that place
as well, and apparently alcoholism exists in the afterlife, so
they are once again doing their rounds. So going on
from the Lafites and exile, not much has been said
about any history or gruesome history behind it. Lafitt's blocksmiths shop.
They said they had the fire and then the association

(20:57):
with Gean Lafitte. But it gets a little bit bloodier
as it goes down here with the list continuing on,
though Lafitte didn't really have any issue any events that
I saw that would have led to any sort of
paranormal occurrences. And I parsed this list from a giant
bunch of bars. But a bunch of them were just
that stuff like, oh, we believe we heard things behind us,

(21:18):
or some of the employees saw something moving at night.
But these are the ones that would give a little
bit of I guess what creeds I can do.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
I would think that I would think being the otis
gay bar. They probably see a lot of Lafittes behind
the ears.

Speaker 6 (21:32):
Yes, exactly, Jesus. So moving on the old absentthe house now,
it actually is a pretty damn old absent house because
it existed before absinthe was actually outlawed in the United States.
As most people know now, Absinthe is a which also
we covered on rumor Flies. It is not a hallucinogenic

(21:57):
It's not a hallucinagenic type of alcohol as some people
say it is. It's just not. It was kind of
a smear campaign against it, and most likely people were
getting lead poisoning or they were getting methanol poisoning from it,
which is a completely different type of deal from a trip.
So New Orleans is known for its accident. A lot
of our cocktails, like the Sasarak which originated here, or

(22:19):
the Old Fashion which also originated here, did something. They
had an absinthe wash where you just kind of like
put a little bit of absent from the glass and
then rinse it around and dump it out, and then
you pour the rest of your glass so you have
like the aroma of it around the rim. Now it
is back in business. It has lots of different absence.
All of them are very good, depending on if you're
into like the licorice flavor or the bitter flavor or not.

(22:41):
But this place is one of the older bars in
the city too. And there was once again a fire
near this place, and there have been a few depths
not exactly there. They believe that there was kind of
a bootlegging run. There's old Lord that is not really
backed up. That there is a tunnel between the old
absent house and Lafitte's blacksmith shop. That's interesting, but at

(23:03):
the same time, we can't dig more than four feet
down without making a puddle, because we are just so
below sea level here, so there's not a lot of
credence to that. But there could have been some bootlegger
or mafia activity around the old Assent House at the
time which would lead to this place to possibly be
haunted by Jean Lafitte and Marie Leveaux. Well, of course,

(23:25):
do you see the underlying theme that's going on here.
I am not bullshitting you on this. I looked at
a bunch of different places, and even the websites themselves
has said, we've seen these people, and really, you know,
Tennessee Williams. You can take what's his name. It's Marcelo,
one of the big mob bosses. They just got to
parse out these famous New Orleans figures, but they can't

(23:47):
all take Jean Lafitte, Marie Levau, and nobody wants Delphi
and Lalarie because she's just creepy and you know, just
she was a general bitch. I'm sorry, that's just what
she was. But nobody wants her. So we're gonna I'm
done with the Lafitte.

Speaker 7 (24:03):
And Leveaux haunts, though I got.

Speaker 6 (24:06):
Two more that I particularly want to talk about one
of them is called padd O'Brien's. Have you heard of
padd O'Brian's and all Jerry no.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
Is, he's the the sportscaster, right, that is.

Speaker 7 (24:18):
A padd O'Brien.

Speaker 6 (24:19):
I don't know if it's the same paddo'brien though this
place I think has been around much longer. This place
is the originator of a drink I'm not sure how
well known it is country Whye, but it's called the
Hurricane and it's just generally a rum based drink with
fruit juices and a major hangover to follow. It's delicious,
but you pay for it. So this place actually has

(24:41):
quite a few hauntings, and one of them is supposedly
a lady's bathroom, which I didn't know about until today.
I've been to this place tons of times and I haven't
heard anything about this, But apparently the ladies bathroom on
the second floor of pad O'Brien's is supposedly inhabited by
a very very digilant servant that decided to not take

(25:06):
off of her shift after she died. Supposedly there's been
a servant woman that would I guess be one of
the bathroom attendants, I guess you'd call them.

Speaker 7 (25:16):
That would be in an.

Speaker 6 (25:17):
Ethereal form as ladies went in and out of the
bathroom once go wash their hands and such. Now, this
is the worst type of haunting for me, because if
you go to some places in New Orleans, there are
bars where they just have some guy that just hangs
out by the door and dispenses soap or grabs a
paper towel for you and expects you to tip him afterwards.
I'm not a stingy person. I want to tip you
for something that I generally will not be able to

(25:38):
do easily by myself. Now having a ghost do that,
and they will just follow you and haunt you if
you don't tip them. That's a problem. Supposedly, this lady
is benevolent though, and has not really caused any harm
to anybody. Now continuing on the piano bar, which is
I guess I want to say, towards the back of
this place. It's a big L shaped courtyard and there's

(25:59):
several inner places with a restaurant and the bar area.
The piano bar supposedly has your normal like almost not
poltergeist activity, but just your physical hauntings where glasses are
moved across the table. Things, shatter, chairs are just thrown across,
like late at night as people are closing up. And

(26:20):
that one is the cool one because I think they
actually there's like a video floating around the internet somewhere
of that happening at padd O'Brien's. I think that was
the right place, but there's several locations of Pat O'Brien
so I'm not sure if it was this particular one,
but they're actually I think one of the ghost shows
went there recently. But anyway, and to top that off, apparently

(26:43):
there's a recent haunt there. Supposedly padd O'Brien's is also
haunted by Ray Walston of my favorite Martian I'm not
shooting you. That's what they say. You can say any
on the internet, but that's on a few different haunted
ghost or websites that apparently man that looks very much
like Ray Walston is haunting Pat O'Brien's and just kind

(27:05):
of scaring the crap out of people there. I don't
know how threatening Ray Walston would look, but this guy
died in two thousand and one. I don't care why
he picked padd O'Brien's afterwards. I don't know. I guess
he had some sort of he was from New Orleans,
but he had some sort of connection to here. If
you have any idea of why a celebrity such as
him would be there, please let me know.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
That makes no sense to me.

Speaker 6 (27:29):
Yeah. So lastly, the other place that I want to
talk about that I've been to several times and is
just an awesome, awesome place to go. If you guys
ever come down here, I would love to show it
to you. It's a open to anybody. There's a restaurant
right by the Saint Louis Cathedral in the heart of
the French Quarter called Murials, and they have a certain
place called the Seance Room. And when you walk in there,

(27:51):
there's no agi boys or anything like that. There's no
seance table. It's just this awesome, dimly lit like red
lounge that just looks opulent and looks like it hasn't
been touched by the modern age since the times of
I would say, like the twenties or thirties. There's even
like a full sized sarcophagus in there. It's just plain awesome.
I wish you could send you pictures of it.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
But anybody who.

Speaker 6 (28:11):
Googles the seance room at Murials, you'll be in for
a treat because you can actually get a drink and
then just go enjoy it there. And for some reason
it's not usually ever that crowded, so that place is awesome.
But it apparently has a very famous haunt because in
the stairwell of Murials, if you go up to the
second floor to eat, there's a sign there's a table
right under the stairs because they're not exactly a spiral,

(28:34):
but they're angled, and right in that little nook there's
a table for a certain gambler that was there at
the time at I think in the thirties who was
down in his luck, lost everything and just decided it
was over and he killed himself at Murials, and supposedly
he still haunts the place, and every now and then

(28:55):
the white staff will actually bring if not a full meal,
then at least a glass of wine to the table
leave it there as kind of I guess, you know,
born went out for their dead gambler homie. But that's
a pretty cool tradition.

Speaker 7 (29:09):
For the Murials, like I love it.

Speaker 6 (29:11):
It adds even if it's not true at all. The
guy actually has a name, it's just hard to pronounce.
But if the if it is even true at all,
or if it isn't, it's still a really cool story
and it kind of made me want to go back
just because of seeing like the ritual to it. I
thought it was really cool. But that that's kind of

(29:33):
like a little tasting of some of the haunted bars
that you can go to. Lafite is still my number
one to go to, but Muriel Seance Room is also wonderful.

Speaker 7 (29:41):
But you're gonna need like a probably.

Speaker 6 (29:43):
At least a college shirt to go in there.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Okay, well we're gonna we're gonna be down there in
August for the Potter and Love Festival obviously, so we'll
have to make sure you guys show us around a
little bit.

Speaker 6 (29:56):
Oh, I don't know if you're a man of vice.
Is Bible drag you around the corner if you want
me to. But anyway, so can we get to the
bloodiness of Clementine Bonabey?

Speaker 3 (30:08):
Yes, because I'm very interested in this story. You've piqued
my curiosity.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
Yes, so I think I kind of had an extra
hook to it that I guess made you let me
do this I guess, but this story is just another
one if your general It seems like true crime at first,
but then it has another layer of it that makes
it almost true detective, which is an awesome show. So anyway,

(30:33):
it starts in a place called Crowley, Louisiana, in January
of nineteen eleven, when a family was found dead in
their house with wounds so grievous that their skulls were
split open. Not only was it hit with the fun
end of the axe, but the assailant had also taken
the blunt end of the axe and hit the back
of their head and crushed them too. And the killer
supposedly have to police investigation, they say he or she

(30:58):
entered through a window, killed the family all at once,
then left the axe at the head of the bed
in a bucket full of the victim's.

Speaker 7 (31:04):
Blood in the corner of the room.

Speaker 6 (31:06):
Creepy enough as it is. And also, I just listened
to your recent episode that you had about the axe
murders or your grand unifying axe murder theory. These you
mentioned a few of these axe murders very briefly in
passing towards the end of the episode, And we're actually
gonna give a little bit of more exposition to them.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Cool.

Speaker 6 (31:27):
Now, after that January nineteen eleven incident, there was another
incident in depending on which source you're looking at, January
or February of nineteen eleven, also in Crowley, Louisiana. The
buyer's family, consisting of a husband, wife, and son, were
found hacked to death, and the police described them to
have been so mutilated that they were quote brained with

(31:50):
an axe, which is just a weird, weird term that
I'm not sure if I'm glad it is no longer
in circulation or I really wish that there.

Speaker 7 (31:59):
Was a seal movie, you know, Sea.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
List horror movie called brained with an axe, But that's
the way it was described. And I assume if they
say brained with an ax, that means there were probably
some brains spilling out afterwards. So these are gruesome murders
and nobody was spared, you know, husband, wife, ant son,
and somebody apparently was very good with an axe too,
because the same thing happened. Axe is left by the
bed now February twenty eight, twenty fifth and Lafayette, Louisiana,

(32:26):
which is about twenty four miles from Crowley, some people
say Crawley. I think it's British, but I'm from Louisiana
and we say everything wrong, so I'm gonna say Crowley,
and that's how they say it. So doing it. The
Andrews family, who also consisted of a husband, wife and
two children, one of them three years old, I believe,
and the other one was eleven months old. They were

(32:48):
murdered and the bodies were arranged on the bed together
and the parents and the kids, and it was almost
like this intentional, like ritualistic type of thing. It seems
like the killers getting a hang of this or is
getting more comfortable with, you know, adding a little bit
more to the scene, because Mimi Andris was propped up

(33:09):
over her husband Alexander's body as if in prayer, and
the children were laid out neatly at the front of
the bed at the feet of the parents. So it's
getting a little bit worse. And you know, I would
say that this is a twenty four miles isn't long.
Even in nineteen eleven, there's trains that go that way
and back and forth. Something that I really try to

(33:29):
do for this investigation or looking at these investigations, was
really try to get the distances figured out, because you
really got to take that to consideration for a case
that seems to be so muddled in either rumors or
just bad reporting or just hearsay, and it's just a

(33:50):
lot of people want to tie things together, but really
locations is important, just to see how feasible it would
be for somebody to be able to do this. Now,
the investigation led first to a man called Raymond Barnabay,
and he was a known penny felon in the area
and was a general jackass from everything I read.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Now.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
After a fight between Raymond and his mistress, remember I
said general jackass, his mistress suggested to a friend that
Raymond may have been involved with the murders. So this
may have just been like her being spiteful and not
really realizing that what she says has consequences. Because something
that I haven't mentioned yet but I think we'll actually
play into it later on and now is just about

(34:30):
everybody in the.

Speaker 7 (34:31):
Story is black.

Speaker 6 (34:32):
Everything from the murderers and all the victims, all of
them were from poor black version areas of town. So
that also is a reason why the investigation may have
been kind of poor at the time. But it does
have some interesting like left and right turns. So now
that I was saying that Raymond was, the police were

(34:53):
generally looking for any reason to find somebody to arrest,
and like I said, she may have not the consequences
of just being in that situation and then say that
this man.

Speaker 7 (35:01):
Who is known to be a thief and also is.

Speaker 6 (35:03):
Probably in one of the low runs society at the time,
may have been the person that murdered everybody. That's an
easy way for the police to pick up somebody, get
them to confess one way or another, and then just
be done with it. And even if the murders were
solved or not, the public is not worried about it
anymore because they have their supposed man. You get the
following of that, I guess the reasoning for it. So

(35:26):
that's kind of what led to Clementine Barnabay to enter
the scene. Now, whether it was true or not, what
the mistress said, Clementine Barnabay and her brother Zephyn did
not help.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Now.

Speaker 6 (35:40):
Raymond's October nineteen eleven trial resulted in his children, Zephyrn
and Clementine, testifying against him on the stand, saying that
he had come home bloody on occasion and bragged about
killing the Andrews family from earlier, along with also threatening
the children's lives himself. So Raymond was actually imprisoned after this.
So it gets a little bit confusing. From here, you

(36:03):
would think they have their man because they're pretty much
arresting somebody that whether he was guilty or not, nobody's
gonna miss him being gone. So continuing on, in November
nineteen eleven, after Rain was in prison, another family was
killed in the same horrific manner. The Randall family from Lafayette,

(36:23):
like you said, only twenty four miles from Crowley, consisted
of a husband, wife, and three children once again and
were found. Let's see, the wife and the children were
murdered with an axe, the children were just membered this time,
and the husband was actually shot in the head. So
this is the only time that this entire series of
murders that a gun will come into play. But everything

(36:46):
else was still very much along the same em of
the husband of you know, the axe murders. So it's
starting to seem like Raymond may have not been the
one that did it, considering he was in prison when
this happened. Or at least jail. So nearly immediately afterwards,
Sheriff Lewis Lacoste arrested both Clementine and zephyr Varnabay on

(37:08):
suspicion of a character profile from the trial since they
got to talk about their dad. Their neighbors also had
talked about them, because even though Raymond was a suspect,
everyone around him was too, essentially, and some of the
neighbors of Clementine said that they call come times Zephyrn filthy, shifty,
and degenerate, you know, the trifecta. So on top of that,

(37:31):
blood was also found on Clementine's close when they had
investigated Raymond for the Andres murders. And not only that,
people supposedly had seen Clementine sneaking around some of those
parts of town after those murders, like very shiftily in
the dark. Whether that's here say or not, we don't know.
It's just what was said in court. Now. Additionally, after that,

(37:53):
when Clementine was arrested, the investigators found address belonging to
one of the murder victims spattered with blood and brain matter. Now,
Zephyrn got off with an alibi, but Clementine, they had
the smoking gun on her and she was taken to jail.
So needless to say whether all of these were her,
it seems like at least one was Would you agree

(38:14):
with that, Jerry, I mean it started to seem like
there might be a little bit of teamwork going on.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Yeah, I mean, I can definitely see how that connection
could be made.

Speaker 7 (38:23):
Yes.

Speaker 6 (38:24):
Now here's where it started getting a little bit crazy.
Shortly after Clementine was taken to jail. In January nineteen twelve,
in Lake Charles, Louisiana, which is fifty miles from Crowley,
the Brussard family was found richariustically murdered with an axe.
Once again poor a black part of town, and it
was a relatively sizable family. So all five of the

(38:49):
family were killed with an axe and their blood was
collected in a bucket. Again, so this is coming back.
But here's the crazy part about it. So all of
the children in the house, their fingers were splayed with
little rolled pieces of paper. So say, like you have
like a I guess, like a candy wrapper or something,
just roll it up into like a tube, and their
fingers were either splayed with that or like little pieces

(39:11):
of what are toothpicks. They were splayed in between each
other to the point where they're making like a very
wide five with their hands, all of them, every hand.
And then afterwards there was a signature on the door
that said the human five, and depending on which source
you're looking at, it said it was either written in

(39:32):
pencil or blood. Now I don't know how those two
are confused, but once again, this story has a lot
of different sources and none of them can seem to
agree on everything. So the human five was listed under there,
but over the human five signature was a Bible passage,
once again written in blood or pencil, depending on who
you talk to, from Psalm nine, and it said when

(39:54):
he maketh inquisition for blood, he forgeteth not the cry
of the humble. So that is straight up creepy. Afterwards,
you know, it's one thing to murder people, but then
to leave cryptic messages afterwards, that's when I would go
into pull panic modif I was a sheriff. It's just
not something I would ever want on my hands. So
the other murders, and there were other murders in Texas

(40:17):
in a similar fashion shortly after this, and a lot
of people like to attribute this to Clementine or around
the time that they like to do that, But eventually
they were traced to a different man named Jim Fields,
So she's off the hook for those. But the reason
why people thought that was because there was a train
line going between what's it called Crowley Lafayette and certain

(40:38):
parts of Texas like San Antonio and Austin, which if
it's a straight line back to Cajun country, so somebody
could get away or get to those areas in a
relatively short amount of time. Now, this is when the
police start cracking down on Clementine, and this is when
she confessed to up to seventeen murders as an accomplice

(40:59):
with not only her father, but three others in the
supposed Human Five, this group that she was talking about,
and she said in her first account that they were
trying out a voodoo ritual after acquiring a voodoo charm
from a very powerful witch doctor. And she along with
the seventeen murders because the ones that I said didn't

(41:19):
quite add up to seventeen. She also could invested some
murders that happened in nineteen oh nine that consequently were
done with an acts as well, and we're also.

Speaker 7 (41:28):
In the near area to Crowley.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
Now, this witch doctor, after police interview, claimed to be
nothing more than a herbologist. Whether that's true or not,
who knows. But it still keeps getting a little bit
crazier because the names of the other three accomplices that Clementine
had included, even though she included her dad with her,
So that's.

Speaker 7 (41:47):
One little credibility right there.

Speaker 6 (41:49):
The other three names led nowhere, So either she gave
them fake names or these people are really good at hiding.
So other accounts of her confession, and actually, this is
what she said on the stand in a This is
a much nicer way than I'm putting it. The way
she said it on the stand, and the way the
reporter said she said it on the stand not the best.

(42:13):
So what she said in general was that the confessions
have her link to a supposed Church of Sacrifice, which
was a cult led by a reverend King Harris. This
sounds extremely like True Detective to me, by the way,
Season one, it's great. Also, I'm in it.

Speaker 7 (42:29):
Look for me in it one day, but just.

Speaker 6 (42:33):
A cameo, she said that his congregation regularly had these
electrifying sermons that had built up a bloodlust among them,
and the murders themselves were a result of certain congregants
not following God's word, and their punishment was to be
carried out by the human five, that being Clementine Barnabay,
her father, Raymond, and then the three other unknown people.

(42:56):
And she would change his story once again, however, to
excluded her father because she heard that he was going
to get executed if he was guilty. So that's where
things get so so crazy and cryptic, and I almost
wanted to be real if it wasn't for the fact that,
you know, seventeen plus people died. Now, her story has

(43:21):
a few holes in it, because Reverend Harris was a
real person.

Speaker 7 (43:25):
But he adamantly claimed that neither he.

Speaker 6 (43:27):
Nor his associated Sanctified church was involved with or had
even been even heard of, this supposed church of Sacrifice.
Now that sounds pretty commnian for somebody that's possibly in
a church of sacrifice. But we'll give him the pass
for right now, considering that, you know, there was no
evidence linking him directly aside from what Clementine said. There

(43:51):
was no you know, smoking gun like video in the
basement type of deal. But Clementine retold her stories several
times in jail, and her death count, according to her,
eventually got up to thirty five. So she was involved
at least thirty five different murders. Now, if you are
a little bit up on your true crime, that beats
number one. Who is John Gasey, John Wayne Gacy with

(44:12):
I think thirty three is his number. It's thirty three
or thirty seven. Either way, that is like running with
the best of the best right there, or the worst
of the worst.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Rather, she's just trying to get some street crid. Was
that she was trying to get some street crid.

Speaker 6 (44:26):
Yeah, exactly, you know, even before she's doing this before
serial killer was even a term that didn't come around
until like the fifties and sixties. Now, supposedly Clementine was
a model prisoner in jail and underwent a quote unquote
procedure that allowed her to be released on good behavior
after only ten years. Now she was put in This

(44:46):
is amazing in the first place, because remember what I
said about the whole judicial system. She was from a
poor black part of town and a predominantly white police force,
and it was a time when sunset cities were still around.
You know, there were times where people weren't even allowed
to be around at nightfall. There were people that were
in very big danger, especially if they were linked to

(45:07):
a crime. I was so surprised. Maybe it was that
she was younger and that she was a female that
she may have been let off a bit easier, But
she was only sentenced to life under the insanity case
that she was under perversion. It wasn't even for the murders,
it was just perversion. So she was put in jail,
went through this procedure and supposedly was released after ten years.

(45:29):
So life in jail to ten years. That's amazing. I
don't think anybody gets that right now unless they're exonerated
on DNA. I don't know what she did, how model
of a prisoner she was unless she started being like
unless she started I don't know, chaperoning all the other prisoners.
And this is an Angola too, which is famously a
prison you do not want to go to in Louisiana.

(45:49):
Still around, but amazing. That part is the craziest part
to me. And even now, there's supposed saying that in
the forties there was a woman that was told about
Clementine barna Bay by her one hundred something year old grandmother,
and that's how the story kind of got some traction again.

(46:09):
But when this woman's grandmother died, she was going through
a box of her stuff and found an old picture
of her grandmother and the picture matched the exact image
of Clementine Barnabay from the newspapers. So I think that's
an awesome bit of law. It's not anxiety substantiated, but
I'm choosing to believe that version since the trail kind

(46:32):
of goes nowhere after Clementine is released. She may have
just died peacefully, just doing her own thing. She may
have gone to have get a higher death count. Who knows,
But I like that story the most.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I think now it definitely that shoots holes in my theory.

Speaker 6 (46:49):
Yeah, well that that theory you have a pretty grand one.
You just got some more time to just you know,
hammer it together because you got a little traveler right there,
Veliska Henter Kaifek and then Louisiana. That's that's some Uh,
that's some traveling. But it's still a fun one. I
really enjoyed the episode.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
But it did fit the time frame though. If you
follow the time frame it was, there was time to
actually do all of that in.

Speaker 6 (47:12):
This Well, yeah, when you mentioned the ax being left
at the head of the bed, I was like, yeah,
the axe Man did do that. And people actually have
like winked this human five thing to the axe man
as well, since I think the X Men only happens
about six years after these murders ended. So maybe he
you know, shuffled down to New Orleans and decided to

(47:32):
just you know, start going acts happy unless he got
some jazz. Uh But uh so, if you want to
talk a little bit of the evidence for and against
Clement times, since that wraps up the story. There is
no record of a church of Sacrifice after this or
somebody that tried to revive it. But who's to say,
because there were tons of old religions back in the

(47:53):
day that just died off when their congregation dies off
or anything else. Some people are really going to keep
in secrets, and maybe she was just really bad at
keeping secrets, the one person in the congregation. But the
evident sport is that, like I said earlier, there's train
lines between Lafayette, Crowley, Lake Charles and Texas, and this
is like something that she could reasonably do is get

(48:14):
in a train, go somewhere, do the murders, get right
back on a train and go back, and then nobody
would be any of the wiser. And then also there
was the clothes. She did have the dress of I
believe Mini Andris in her room with brain matter on it.
Like there's no disputing that it was that. So that

(48:34):
says she at least killed somebody, I would confidently say,
or was in the room when somebody was killed, or
helped to do the cleanup, if you want to call
it that. Maybe she was like the bucket holder. I
don't know, but that's not as far as it goes
for her actual evidence. Now there's something that you could
put into a evidence for or against category. Now she

(48:57):
mentioned the human five in the Church of Sacrifice, right,
she would have had seen the crime scene to have
known about that, or this could be evidence against. We
don't know how the I guess interrogation process went for them.
She could have easily heard about the murders while she
was in jail, just you know, a little hearsay, and

(49:17):
then heard about some of the details of it and
chose it and ran with it. And that's what just
how this whole thing started snowballing. So that is that
is one possibility. Now I can't say one way or another,
but I feel like also there was a chance that
the police before, you know, interrogation techniques aren't to their
standard today. The police were just like, are you sure

(49:40):
you didn't write anything strange on a wall? Like does
this Bible passage mean anything to you? And then says it,
And then that's when she starts to kind of just
make this story out of these few leading threads, which
is sometimes what a lot of people do for attention.
There are tons of false confessions every year because people
want attention and they might want to you know, get

(50:02):
their rep you know, I'm already going to prison, I
may as well admit to more things just so I,
you know, look like a badass going down. The particular
person I'm thinking of is Henry Lucas supposedly killed hundreds
of people, the Florida Drifter. He really was only you know,
convicted for maybe three or four, but his story is
supposedly hundreds. So some people just go for it for

(50:22):
the attention. This may have been a situation with her
also the evidence against it that could have built this
whole Church of sacrifice thing is the fact that papers
tend to sensationalize coming from this part of town. Voodoo
was a real thing, and it is still a very
well practiced religion, and it was a past religion back then. However,

(50:43):
a lot of people, especially the white community of this area,
and you know, in consequently most of Louisiana, where Voodoo
is mostly practiced, saw this as a bastardization of Roman Catholicism,
because there is elements of Roman Catholicism and Haitian Voodoo
just thrown into this creole voodoo that exists in this area,

(51:04):
and it could have just been this big scare thing
because I mean, yes, snakes are involved. Yes there are
some strange rituals with either you know, chickens or just
just things that aren't normal for what most people would see.
It doesn't mean it's evil, though, but it's easy to
make it look like it's evil. I think that even
right now, a lot of people see voodoo is a

(51:25):
dark thing when generally voodoo is not supposed to be
a violent religion. Have you guys covered voodoo yet at
all in any of your episodes?

Speaker 3 (51:33):
Yeah, we actually covered when we did Marie Leveau and
Marie Brown, and we actually had a young lady come
on to actually talk about the different choices between who
do voodoo and in the New Orleans style as opposed
to the Haitian style voodoo. Right.

Speaker 6 (51:48):
Oh yeah, Mallie Brown was great. She invented the first
Hurricane party. Yeah, but continuing off of that, I was
my kind of gas dumbing down to voodoo kind of
sat agreeing with what they said in the previous episodes.
Oh yeah, okay, just make sure. Yeah, whodoo I think
is the one that you don't want to mess with.

(52:09):
That's the that's the black art one. I don't want
to be offending anybody, but I think that's what I heard.
If not, I'm sorry, But anyway, continue on with that.
The paper tennis sensationalize and not only that. You know,
the game of telephone, it's what our show is about.
Just you know, one person says something, the next person
says something, and then it ends up that just this woman,

(52:31):
this tiny, little nineteen year old girl, happened to have
taken out entire families at once. You know, So there
is that, but the factor means that there still was
this whole crime scene of not only this almost religiously
posed family of murdered people, but also the writing on
the wall, the actual you know, human five signature on

(52:55):
the door, and then the fact that all the children's
hands were splayed like that. Somebody did that, and somebody
was doing it intentionally, not just as a gag. I
mean maybe, but that seems a little bit too intricate
to be like so just to mislead somebody, Because if
you murder somebody in the house, if I was to

(53:16):
do it, which you know, I don't, I guess I
don't have the mind of the murderer because I have not,
you know, done it, but I would want to ge
out there as fast as possible so I wouldn't get caught.
It takes a lot of effort to actually set up
the room as you see fit after you've done the killings,
you know, and every second increases your chances of getting caught,
especially if somebody hears something in an their room or

(53:36):
another house, or just you know, maybe somebody screamed before
they got murdered. Just I feel like that would be
a situation where this really meant something to the person
that did this, and uh, it's just I don't know
if I really don't know what to land on for
this case. But if it happens to be some sort
of strange ritualistic cult mass, then that's one of the

(53:59):
very first to ever actually be confirmed, you.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Know, absolutely, And you know it's funny you mentioned like
the fact of anybody making a noise. It amazes me
how many of these families were big families, four, five,
six people, and somehow another during the act of killing one,
it didn't wake up the rest of the family, and
in most of these cases that was what it was said.

Speaker 6 (54:25):
That's the most amazing part to me is because I
feel like there's at least some sound associated with an
axe hitting uskull, blunt end or not, and that would
wake up somebody or at least a moan of pain
or something like that. And not to mention, like I said,
one of them was shot in the head, and I
guess that was the smart thing is they thought the
husband would be the stronger one, that would be more
wellthing to defend themselves. Maybe they popped him off first

(54:47):
and then just took care of the rest of the family.
As gruesome as that is, but it's just amazing that
entire swaths of families. It seems like there wasn't much
resistance to any of these either. From what I've read,
there wasn't anything like uh, what's it called defense mark
defensive wounds, like when somebody is actually trying to block

(55:07):
themselves from being hit with an object or a weapon.
There was none of that, So these people might have
been like cold asleep. Now that brings to the fact
that maybe there was a coordinated group of people in fact,
and they all swung together, and that makes a chance
of that. But they also left only one axe, so
that also unless maybe the acts was just kind of

(55:30):
like a calling card and they didn't need to leave
every you know, murder implement So yeah, that's it's That's
just one something I wanted to cover because you know,
we get all the Delphine Laari's down here. Everybody knows
about that, everybody knows about Myrtle's plantation, everybody knows.

Speaker 7 (55:45):
About you know, the voodoo.

Speaker 6 (55:47):
And some people know about the Rugarou, which is just
a fun little Sasquatch story. But in terms of Clementine
Barnabay and her you know, wonderful human five, I have
not seen this done anywhere else and follow you if
somebody else has done it, I want to listen to
your podcast talking about it because it's probably going to
be a better attempt at it than me.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
Right, it was fun having you on. We greatly appreciate
you coming on and sharing a little bit of your
local lower knowledge.

Speaker 6 (56:12):
And uh oh, thank you for having me on.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
You guys are great.

Speaker 6 (56:15):
I'm glad to have you guys on Dark Myths. We're
all glad to have you on Dark Myths. It's it's
been awesome seeing the place, the place grow, especially with
people such as yourselves blowing up too. It's just it's
fun seeing everybody really coordinate and collaborating and cooperating.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
That's a lot of c's.

Speaker 6 (56:31):
Yeah, I like alliteration, you know, But thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Tell everybody how they can find your show.

Speaker 6 (56:37):
You can find us at rumorfliespodcast dot com. Obviously you
can reach us at well. Also you can find us
on any podcast platform, iTunes, Stitch, your podcast, attic, all
of them. We're there. We greg made a point to
get us on all of them. And then also if
you want to contact us, Rumorplies at gmail dot com.
We have a Patreon if you want to check out

(56:58):
some of our bonus stuff too, which you know, if
you like our show, check that out later on.

Speaker 7 (57:02):
Don't worry about that right now.

Speaker 6 (57:03):
But also we have an Instagram which is also rumor Flies,
and we have a Twitter which we are pretty frequently on,
which is also just at rumor Flies. So it's pretty
much if you just type rumor Flies and Google, almost
every result will be us.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Awesome. Well, guys, I appreciate it, and I hope you
have a lot of luck in the future. Like I said,
you guys have a really good show, and there's no
doubt that it's just going to continue to grow and
take exponential growth in the near future. I can just
see it happening.

Speaker 6 (57:35):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and I wish all
the best of your podcast too. And tell everybody else
that said.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Hey, thank you so much. I will and we'll see
you soon.

Speaker 8 (57:43):
All right, take it easy.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
No auditioning.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Tony Hilpon and Hornet Stories Patreon Bonus episode. Please welcome
your host, Jerry and Tracy Party.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
All right, welcome to the August edition of our Patreon
bonus episode. We've got two long stories for you tonight.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
LONGA bon Eye.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Okay. Actually, like we've got one really long story and
one regular story, Liah, but we're not going to waste
a lot of time on chit chat. You guys get
to hear enough chit chat during the Regular Show. We
do have some some awesome stories, so I figured we
just jump right into it. Are you okay with that?

Speaker 5 (58:56):
I'm good. Let's go.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
But before we do, I do want to say thank
you to all of you guys, because we're starting to
get more and more patron supporters, and I think this
show will will prove to you guys that we're actually
trying to give you the best at the best. I
would be willing to bet that this Son of Sam
story that we're going to do tonight will be as good,
if not better than any story we've done ever on

(59:20):
the Regular Show.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Well that's a lot of pressure.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
It is. But I've told you guys before in the
Regular Show, I judge a story about how many notes,
pages of notes it takes, and this particular story on
Santa Sam, I have seventeen pages of notes, and that's
right there with the Gary deemon House episode in the
Lizzie boardon episode, I think one of them was eighteen
of them was seventeen, so.

Speaker 5 (59:44):
That's whack get it. Whack get it.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
But I think you guys are going to really be
fascinated with that, so much so that I'm going to
save up one for the second story and we're going
to do the Beast of Bray Road first. Oh all right,
Usually we do the normal stories last oh gotcha, but
we're not going to this week. Okay, So let's jump
right into the Beast of Bray Road.

Speaker 5 (01:00:09):
I'll never be your Beast of Bray Road. Hey, I
just made it up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
See as soon as you got to sing that happy
Birthday thing, now you're trying to sing everywhere.

Speaker 5 (01:00:21):
At least I said it right. I always thought it
said I'll never be your pizza burning. Now, how stupid
is that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
And how did you think that you said it right
when you said you're the Beast of Brairoad, Because because
that's not how the song goes. I've never heard Mick
Jagger utter those words.

Speaker 5 (01:00:36):
Well, you don't know, maybe it's a new hit I'll
get with his manager.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
They could they could use a new hit. I'm sure
out of your singing they will get no satisfaction. Ah slamma, Okay,
let's jump into the story before we run everybody off
and get them to just pull their Patroon pledges. The
funny thing about the Beast of Bray Road is most

(01:01:01):
of these sightings are in the Wisconsin area. And the
thing about that is all these are primarily were wolf
type settings sightings.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Oh well, maybe they like cheese.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Maybe so or cheap beer Old Milwaukee. Obviously, I don't
know this. This is just taking a turn for the
ugly right off the bat. I'm sorry, let's start over.
So it seems that Wisconsin is the mecca of werewolf
sidings in the US.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
I had no idea. Okay, that's why, as you didn't
say ideal, I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Anyway, the most famous of which is the Beast of
Bray Road, and that's what we're going to focus on today.
These sightings are primarily took place in the nineteen eighties
and the nineties and right in the Elkhorn, Wisconsin area,
But locals will tell you there was plenty of sightings
before then. So what does this Beast of Bray Road

(01:01:59):
look like? It's going to depend on the person that
you know. The descriptions kind of varied a little bit,
mostly brown or gray fur came out in the face
and sometimes on all four sometimes it was staying on
two legs. People would say that it was about two
to three foot foot when it was on all four

(01:02:20):
That sounds funny, two three foot feet when it's on
four feet, But when it stood up it was around
seven feet.

Speaker 7 (01:02:28):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Now, people would say would range between four hundred seven
hundred pounds, and the size was different depending on the sight.
So it's kind of all over the map. But at
the same time, everybody's kind of he kind of generalized them.
So let's talk about when this thing started. Nineteen thirty six,
Mike Shackelman was driving on Highway eighteen in Jefferson, Wisconsin.

(01:02:50):
He saw half man, half dog digging at the ground
on at like an Indian burial ground. I keep in mind,
this was nineteen thirty six, not a whole lot of
talk of stuff like that going on in nineteen thirty six.
He said that the creature was about six foot tall,
had the muzzle of a dog mixed with an ape.
The hell, he said, it had long arms with three fingers,

(01:03:15):
and the stench was like decayninge flesh.

Speaker 5 (01:03:20):
They were close enough to smell yes, yes, he left Hemsten,
he must have been drawn.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
He left. He came back the next day and he
said the creature was still there, but this time it
looked at him and it said one word and left.
Shut up, goony Google.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
Making that up.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
That's well what he said that the name he said that,
it said, Gadara, Gadara, mate, God weird. Being entirely too
too stilly for this.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
I don't know, but that's just weird. How can you
how can you have all those different features on one day?

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
Well, I mean, he was saying that it had a
kind of a dog face, like a dog in an
eight face mixed. I don't know. At the Gabe, we're
gonna run everybody off anyway, So let's get back to
he said. We are punch drunk. We have done we

(01:04:25):
have done nothing but work for four straight weeks. And
now this is like the seventh show we've put out.
One of them was two and a half hours long.
We've done a ton of interviews. We are giddy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:36):
I'm sorry, y'all, I don't mean to be goofy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
And now we're at the deadline where this needs to
come out. We're actually recording this at seven forty five,
and it's got to be out tonight. So it's it's
taken us as long to get everything together.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
But I promise it's gonna get better. I promise you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
So he said, Gadara, Gadara. When you look it up,
it's a place in Israel. It's also it was mentioned
in the Bible several times, mostly with demonic type stories.
So I don't know why this creature would look at
him and say Goodhara, but apparently it did. Weird and
then it just disappeared. Nineteen sixty four, I didn't say.

(01:05:14):
By nineteen sixty four, Harvard, Illinois, Dennis Feelus was driving
in he said, this thing just jumped in front of
him and he ran through a cornfield. So the creature
jumped in front of the car and then ran through
a cornfield. Obviously there was no proof of this other

(01:05:36):
than just some broken corn stocks, but don't really prove anything.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
Nineteen seventy two, there was a woman in Wisconsin that
called the Department of Natural Resources to report that a large,
hairy creature tried to break into her house. She called
back to say that it returned to harm one of
her animals, leaving a deep cut from shoulder to shoulder,
and I don't know what kind of animal it is.

(01:06:03):
Now here's the difference on this one. They actually found
a footprint that was right around twelve inches long on site.
Dag come on, so literally the footprint was a footprint.
September nineteen eighty nine, Scott Bray on a dairy farm

(01:06:23):
saw a large dog, larger than a German shepherd. Said
it had twenty ears, black and gray fur. He said
he followed it all the way to a rock pile
and then he kind of lost him, but once again
there were large footprints left. That same night, Russell Guest
saw the same creature coming from behind some bushes on
two legs. Said it was wabbling back and forth like

(01:06:45):
he was uncomfortable to be on two legs. I had
a wolf head, very wide shoulders, and he assumed it
was a wolf dog hybrid. This same night.

Speaker 5 (01:06:53):
Is it footprints or paul prints?

Speaker 3 (01:06:56):
I don't know, oh, he expends, because the where wolf
was part human.

Speaker 5 (01:07:01):
Well, okay, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Nineteen eighty nine, in the Fall LORI and DZ she
saw something on the side of the road eating something
with its paws up. So it's kind of like it
was holding. I don't know if it's doing a hokey
pokey or.

Speaker 5 (01:07:22):
You mean, it wasn't like he was eating something that
was dead and he was on his back and his
paws were up right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
No, I mean he was sitting up and he had
something laying across his paws. Yeah, like we would eat something. Yeah,
for the most part. So he described it as being
I'm sorry. She described it as being very muscular, gray
and brown fur, a long snout twenty ears and the

(01:07:52):
body was more like more like a human type body
than an animal. And she said it had yet eyes
that even looked yellow even when the light wasn't on,
so when there was no light shining night, you could
still see the eyes were yellow. Wow. Now, nineteen ninety,
Mike Edton was driving on Bray Road. He saw something

(01:08:13):
very similar to what Laurie and Drizzy saw it. But
first he thought it was just a bear, but after
hearing all the other reports, he said he had to
rethink that it probably wasn't a bear. He probably saw
the same thing, but it was eating sitting on the
side of the road with palls up eating something. The
most famous case, obviously is a lot of people have

(01:08:33):
heard of is nineteen ninety nine, Halloween of all Things,
eighteen year old Doorstein Gibson. She said she was driving
along Bray Road and her car kind of jumped in
the air as if she ran over something. She got
out immediately because she wanted to see if she ran
over something. She saw this hairy creature coming right towards her. Terrified, obviously,

(01:08:54):
she jumps in the car. She took off, but then
the beast jumped onto the trunk of her car. It
had been ranged in so luckily it just slid right off,
but it did kind of scratch the back of the
car up. And she said she came back later that
night with a friend of hers after some trick or treating,
and the animal was still on the side of the road.
She ordered the person she was with the lock the door.

(01:09:15):
And she told her neighbor the next day that you know,
what she saw, and he looked at the scratches and
stuff on the car. That's kind of, you know, the
most famous story of this thing. So it's the only
time where anybody actually claimed that it tried to attack.
And there's you know, been a bunch of other sightings
of a similar thing. And then even if you kind
of cross a little bit over into Michigan. There's another

(01:09:38):
cryptid over there that they called the Michigan dog Man,
which is very similar, almost the exact same description. People
seen the same thing. So that little area, that region
up there of Wisconsin and Michigan, people are kind of
thinking it could be the same creature basically, But.

Speaker 5 (01:09:54):
He didn't seem like he was harmful to anybody except
that one time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
Yeah. Well, everybody seems to think that it's got like
the bottom of a bear, but like the head of
a wolf, if that makes any sense. That's kind of
the most common description. So what is it? I mean,
is it a werewolf? Is it a bear dog?

Speaker 5 (01:10:08):
It's a misfit?

Speaker 3 (01:10:09):
Is it a wind to go? A bigfoot? Some people
do think that it's bigfoot God and they're just seeing
that as something else. But they think that that could
just be a bigfoot. The Native Americans in that area,
they would consider that to be.

Speaker 5 (01:10:22):
A wind to go, a wind to go.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Yep. It's like when you got to go to the bathroom,
you got no wind to go.

Speaker 5 (01:10:28):
Good one.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
So anyway, that's our quick little paranormal story tonight. So
now we can focus on what I think is one
of the better stories that we've done on this show.
Son of some this is a jacked up story.

Speaker 5 (01:10:43):
So and he's jacked up looking.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Yeah, he is a little unique. So let's jump right
into this. I'm kind of excited about this one, so
I'll be honest with you. Almost almost pulled this one
to use on the regular show, but I thought, you
know what, these guys are giving us their hard earned cash.
They deserve the best of the best, So you guys
are always going to get our best stories.

Speaker 5 (01:11:08):
So except for that one we just did and we
left too much and we're sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
We are sorry, and now we will be less hopefully sorry.
Oh whatever, Okay, let's jump into this. All this really
starts at early childhood, but the crime spree of it
started December twenty fourth, nineteen seventy five, Christmas Eve. It

(01:11:34):
is a thirteen month killing spree by Son of Sam,
which most people know by now is the gentleman known
as David Berkowitz. He terrorized the streets in New York
City looking for victims, basically terrorized sixteen million people all
by itself.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
Wow, why can I do that on Christmas Eve? I
know we didn't do it all on Christmas Eve. That's
a happy time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:58):
And it's kind of an odd I don't know what
the reasoning was for that, But let's go back to
the very beginning. Who was David Burkowitz. Well, he was
put up for adoption in the summer of nineteen fifty three.
Pearl and Nathan Burkowitz actually adopted him. He was only
three days old. They lived in the Bronx and they

(01:12:18):
couldn't have children of their own. One of David's earliest
memories was being told that he was adopted. He was
told that his mother died a childbirth. That was kind
of a common thing, you know, back then. I guess
people just told their kids they were adopted when they
were young, as they're trying to hide it. I don't know,
but every time they would pass by the courthouse, his

(01:12:39):
parents would point to it and say, that's where the
courts awarded you to us, because we love you more
than anyone in the world, which is sweet. Nathan worked
six days a week run in a hardware store, so
he was always at work. I know that feeling. Pearl
was a stay at home mom and she loved to
show off David, so she would always take any opportunity
to brag on him, take him to places, and you know,

(01:13:01):
like she was a proud parent. It was the basics
of it. Nathan would take him to a Yankee stadium
on occasion and they would spend time with it. So
it sounds like he really had a pretty decent childhood
From that level, he was loved. David said he was
giving all the love in the world that he could
ever want, but he was self destructive and pushed it away.

(01:13:23):
He would often get into fights at school because the
kids would say that he wasn't a real kid because
he was adopted.

Speaker 5 (01:13:31):
I mean, okay, that is just the dumbest thing ever.

Speaker 3 (01:13:34):
I don't know how all the kids find out he's
adopted unless he.

Speaker 5 (01:13:36):
Just told yeah, and he is a real kid, you
big dummies.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
He felt ashamed and guilty that his mom Doubed died
while she was giving birth.

Speaker 5 (01:13:45):
Did she really die or is that what they just said?

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
Can we get to it?

Speaker 5 (01:13:48):
Oh damn, we can get to.

Speaker 3 (01:13:51):
It, thank you. He lived in fear that his dad
was gonna come and kill him for killing his biological mother.
His imagination was fueled by horror movies that he watched
all the time. So you got a warped mind. You
already feel guilty about something, and you're watching all these
horror movies. What good's gonna come buy of that. He
was so tormented by these nightmares that he would spend

(01:14:13):
hours in the closet hiding, covered up with clothes, hoping
nobody would find it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:17):
Oh my, what a terrible light.

Speaker 3 (01:14:19):
He hated school. He would run home to his mom
every day because he had or her and that was
the only person he felt comfortable with, so much so
that he poisoned their parakeet because he saw it as
a basically a rival for her affection. There's the first
sign of a serial killer starting to kill animals, that's
always the case, or affecting animals or hurting animals. Anyways,

(01:14:43):
she never suspected anything because that was her sweet angel.
I mean, this kid hung the moon and I never
used that phrase, but I thought it'd be fitting. Yeah.
Even though he loved his mom, he was also very
aggressive towards her. Sometimes he would kind of yell at
her and throw things at her, which is odd for
somebody that he adored, but that was just a case.
When he was ten, she took him to a child psychologist,

(01:15:05):
so she already knew something was up and didn't help
because David was a secret of kids, so he didn't
want to bother saying anything about it. Right, when he
was eleven to twelve, he would sneak out of his
window at nighttime, keeping out of New York City, he
would sneak out of his window and run the streets.

Speaker 5 (01:15:23):
Wow, that's insane.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
When he turned thirteen, he had his bar mitzvah, and
in the Jewish religion, obviously that's only kind of added
to his guilt and shame he said. At one point,
he said, I'm not a proud Jew. Jews are supposed
to be honest, law abiding, and respectful of parents. I
am none of these things. I am a disgrace.

Speaker 5 (01:15:43):
Well, that poor kid, So.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
That's the way he felt so terrible. Now, granted he
wasn't a kid when he made.

Speaker 5 (01:15:49):
Those well I know, but still, I mean, you have
all that love and all that stuff and you still
feel like you're worthless. That's just terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
Right. So one night, shortly after his bar mitzvah, during
a temper tantrum, he said something that he would have
to live with the rest of his life. One of
the most horrible things. And this is why you gotta
if there's any children out there listening with I don't
think any children are patronsoul almost say it anyway, you
gotta be careful what you say, because you never know

(01:16:18):
when you're gonna get an opportunity to correct some of
these bad things. In this little fit of rage, he
said to his mom. She was getting ready to go
out to dinner, and he said, I hate you, I
hate you. I hope you die. Oh oh, Unfortunately nobody
knew that she was actually in the advanced stages of
breast cancer.

Speaker 5 (01:16:38):
She wasn't.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
She collapsed at dinner that night. Oh she didn't die,
but they sent her to a cancer ward to where
she pretty much just wasted away and died without ever
really being conscious again to be able to talk. The
one person that he was the absolute closest to was
now gone. He cried for days, and he had lost

(01:16:59):
everything when she died, as far as he was concerned,
she was it. He was very lonely, very shy. He's
one of these type of kids that would blush really easily.
Now he's a teenager. I mean he's just getting into
you know, thirteen fourteen years old. He was extremely shy
around the girls. Sometimes he would drive his bike for

(01:17:20):
hours around town. Mostly he'd go to the cemetery to
visit his mom's grave, and he would just stay there
for hours, fascinated by the headstones. He would always look
at the ones and say, you know, the ones that
died young, and always be fascinating. He would even wonder
to himself about the girls, if they were pretty or
not pretty. Oh, you know, signed right there, things started

(01:17:41):
to turn.

Speaker 5 (01:17:43):
He's not sick.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
His dad would plead to him and just say, look, hey,
come talk to me, you know, But David wouldn't have
talked he so he just, you know, he said. He
now bottled up, kept it all bottled up, And in
nineteen seventy one he graduated high school barely because he
missed so much school that you know, truancy almost kept
him from graduating. He then he immediately enlisted into the army.

(01:18:07):
The funny thing was when he went to the army,
he used to fantasize about being a hero. That was
one of his things. He wanted to go to Vietnam
and actually die in Vietnam a hero, that was his goal. Instead,
he was sent to Korea, where he qualified as a
sharpshooter with an sixteen. He tried to find a girlfriend

(01:18:29):
over there, but like in the right, around the Korean
camps and stuff where he was, there were all kinds
around the base, all kinds of hookers and stuff like that.
So he tried to actually find a girlfriend through those means,
and in the end, though he said it was, he
found it degrading. So he wrote a letter to his
father apologizing pretty much for being a huge disgrace and

(01:18:54):
amounting to nothing in life. He said that he didn't
amount to anything of society, and he's sorry that he
turned out the way that he did. Stupid, hateful, ugly
and destructive. God, he begged his father to forget that
he even existed.

Speaker 5 (01:19:08):
Oh my gosh, well he needed a major hug.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
Yeah. Nineteen seventy three, the army transferred him to Fort Knox, Kentucky. Nah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:16):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:19:18):
He started attending a Baptist church there and soon became baptized.
He felt like he had found a family that he
actually belonged there. He liked the idea that he would
see these families going to church and that was like
Sunday was church. Day and the whole family got together
and then the whole family went to eat dinner, and
that he really liked that concept of it. Then all

(01:19:40):
the preaching though that he would go through kind of
reminded him that he was going to go to hell,
in his opinion, and it was just a constant reminder
of what the end result was going to be and
how negative was going to be and how bad it
was going to be in hell. So he decided that
the religion thing didn't really need to last long, and
he kind of went away from the church. Nineteen seventy four,

(01:20:03):
he was discharged from the army after several for him
and decided to return back to New York. He started
classes at the Bronx Community College. Now, Nathan and his dad,
since all this had taken place with him being in
the military and everything, he remarried a woman. So now

(01:20:24):
he's remarried to what now is David's stepmom. Then he
moves to Florida. David resented his new stepmom and her
daughter for basically invading his home and taking his dad away.
That's the way he looked at it. David, now twenty one,
felt like that he had not like a curse on him.

(01:20:45):
But he just had like a some kind of force
around him that basically repelled people from him. And he
calls itself a dysmooch, which is Yiddish for dirty one.
Definitely didn't have a very high high self esteem, No,
not at all. So he goes out, He gets his
own apartment, gets a job as a night watchman. He

(01:21:07):
started thinking more and more about his real mom. At
this point, he started aggressively trying to find out anything
he could about her. He went to a freedom of
adoption meeting and told his story. Basically, you know, it's
kind of like a freedom of adoption meeting was for
kids that had been adopted, people who had been adopting,
kind of like an AA meeting or something like. It's
a sport group. And he goes to this thing and

(01:21:32):
he starts telling people his story. He's saying, oh, my
mom died, you know, when I was born. And people
start laughing, and he's like, I mean, what the hell's
wrong with all you people? I'm telling you this sad story.
My mom died during childbirth. And and they're like, the
people there like that's what they tell all of us
he had And he's like, what do you mean that

(01:21:54):
all of us are told that their mom died during birth?
So he calls his dad, Nathan up in Florida and
he's he just basically demands the truth, and Nathan told
him that she was alive, and the adoption agency suggested
that they were told that. He said, that was just
it was. That's what basically all the adoption agencies back

(01:22:14):
then would tell anybody adopting a baby, telling them that
their real mother died so they would not ever, you know,
wonder about their parents or its supposed to have been,
would have been the easy way out. So David was stunned,
to say the least. I mean, all of this guilt
that he'd suffered his whole life. He's twenty one. Yeah,

(01:22:37):
he spent his entire life guilty because he thought his
mom died during child blaming himself. And now all of
a sudden he finds out she's not dead.

Speaker 5 (01:22:44):
See that's the show you way to do those kids.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
He goes and he finds out doing some research, he
finds his original birth certificate through the adoption agency. His
name was Richard David Falco. His parents were Betty and
Tony Falco. He searched for basically almost a year. He
didn't find them. No luck. I mean it's a lot
harder back in the seven yeahs today with.

Speaker 5 (01:23:08):
Google is kind of an unusual name.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
So yeah, probably not some unusual in New York. Oh,
it's kind of a you know, I would I would
assume that's probably an Italian name, and there's a lot
of Italians in New York. Not stereotyping, but I'm just
saying that there's a lot of I understand. Frustrated David. Obviously,
he tried this whole religion thing during his army days.

(01:23:31):
Now decide to try something a little different. He joined
a Satanic cult.

Speaker 5 (01:23:35):
Well that's way the other way.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
He liked the fact that they had late night meetings
in the woods and all the chants. He liked all
the drugs and the opportunity to meet girls, because you know,
that's where I find the best opportunity to meet girls,
Satanic Cultsah. So, anyways, he basically connected easily to the
dark forces that he worshiped in the Satanic cult, a

(01:24:00):
lot more easily than he did the lighter forces when
he was in the Baptist or a Jewish religion. He
even made a blood packed to serve the devil.

Speaker 5 (01:24:13):
That just really pisses me off, because no, seriously, if
they just not told them kids this, his life would
have totally probably been totally different, and he wouldn't be
famous for what he did.

Speaker 3 (01:24:24):
Oh, you're probably right.

Speaker 5 (01:24:25):
I mean that's just awful.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
I mean, when you think about it, and this guy
he was trying. All he really wanted I mean I
say that, I can't say all he really wanted was
to be loved, because he had love and at the
same time he still had issues.

Speaker 5 (01:24:40):
Well yeah, I don't know. I just don't understand that whole.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
But you think about this, he's twenty twenty one, twenty
two years old. He's already been a Jew, a Baptist
in a Satan worship. First, yeah, it's somebody he's searching
for something.

Speaker 5 (01:24:54):
Well yeah, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:24:55):
So after basically a year now, he actually found his
birth parents. His thoughts in his head were, oh, my god,
this is going to be the perfect family. It's my mom,
my real mom, my real dad. And I wonder if
they got brothers, sisters, and he can't wait. He's all
excited about it. That didn't really last long because when

(01:25:22):
he met Betty. Betty basically, I guess, was kind of average.
He expected this like June Cleaver type mom, I guess,
and it was this little meek lady that and she
had this annoying voice, according to him, and she's like

(01:25:45):
this Jewish voice she or whatever, but this she had
this voice so she could She kept kept saying something
like I'm sorry, Richie, I'm sorry. And he said just
the sound of it just made him want to put
his hand over his years and he said it took
everything he had to just not strangle her on the spot.

(01:26:07):
And so he's like, well, you know what he said,
I'm just going to tell her I forgive her and
I love her, and I'm going to move on.

Speaker 5 (01:26:17):
What about that?

Speaker 3 (01:26:17):
And that's what he did. That's a good point, because
what let's talk about dad. So he finds out through
talking with her, he's like, you know, I'm sure she
had a good reason for giving me up. No, turns
out Tony wasn't his real dad. He was a guy
named Joseph Kleinman. Joseph Kleinman was a very well off

(01:26:41):
Jewish industrialist back in He was pretty much a well
to do businessman and he had a reputation, and we're
talking about the you know, the fifties, and she was
pregnant with his baby while she was having an affair.
So the truth of the matter is he was giving
up because he was an inconvenience. It was a shame

(01:27:06):
because this wealthy businessman's like, I'm not going to have
my name drug through the mud, but having an illegitimate kid,
and then the mom she don't really want to have
this kid around. It's really not her husband's, so they
gave him up for adoption. So you could imagine then
this kid has been searching for love his entire life.
He meets finally meets his parents and thinks, and he

(01:27:30):
finds out that he basically work. His way of putting
it was I didn't ask to be born to begin with, Yeah,
and now I find out that I didn't even have
to be born. I was in inconvenience because people playing
around basically and not being careful. And now I've lived
this life that I don't want to live because of
that man. He did, though, find out that he had

(01:27:55):
a half sister and she had two daughters, and he
loved him. He was going over to their house. It
was almost like that his little half sister was going
overboard to try to make up for the mistakes. Mom
came out. He had the two little kids over there,
and they would they would run and jump in his
arms when he came over for dinner and call him
Uncle Ritchie. And he liked that. But he said, as

(01:28:18):
time went on, I guess the just the hatred for
what happened to his real mom and dad and all
that what really went on, They started to get to
the point where he felt like he wanted to kill
his entire family. But he liked his half sister, he
loved those little kids, and he just felt it was

(01:28:38):
better that he just disappear quick coming around. Yeah, and
it was kind of odd that he told his half sister.
Of course, it all made since later he said that
he would never hurt her or her daughter's which is
just an odd thing to say to somebody before you
just disappear, But that's what he did. Now we're up
to Christmas Eve nineteen seventy five. For some reason, he

(01:29:02):
tried to stab a fourteen year old girl through her
thick winter coat. Well, the knife wouldn't go through the coat,
and what he ended up doing was just basically struggling
with her. She got away, and during that whole process
he cut hisself and he was like, I'm not gonna
do this anymore. So he decided that the next time

(01:29:24):
that he was going to do something like this, he
was gonna be a little more impersonal and he was
going to use a gun. Basically. Yeah, he just said
for somebody who's who was withdrawn as he was, he
didn't need to be that close to people. So he
was just gonna do Yep, he decided he was just
going to get a gun. So in the spring of

(01:29:45):
nineteen seventy six, he couldn't sleep at his place because
he said the dogs that were barking next door, just
barking NonStop. It just got on the sturves. That's going
to come into play a little later too, as you're
going to see a theme. He moved to an apartment
building by the Hudson River only defined guess what more dogs?

Speaker 5 (01:30:06):
Oh man, don't he check it crap out before he
moves in?

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
Who checks out it? Who's got dogs at park? Are
you going to camp out for a couple of nights
and scope the situation?

Speaker 5 (01:30:14):
I mean, are you talking about dogs in the park?
Or dogs in the apartment.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
No, these are dogs, I guess next to I don't
know there were dogs next door. Well, all the dogs
were next door. Turn Okay. Nineteen seventy six to nineteen
seventy seven, he drove a taxi, He worked at the
post office. He did a little bit of everything. He'd
sometimes drive to the beach and just sleep in his

(01:30:40):
car just to get some peace. Yeah, he would take
long walks on the beach the whole time, just to
try to clear his head think about stuff. I mean,
as he got older, this thing started churning within anym
And that's obviously we're getting ready to start getting to
the bad stuff. Now, at twenty three years old, he
decided that he needs to slay a woman. He needs

(01:31:00):
to kill a woman just to kind of get revenge
for how he's been treated.

Speaker 5 (01:31:05):
I mean, yeah, okay, that makes no sense, but I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
That's in his thoughts. That's what would fix stuff. So
he went to Florida to see his dad. His dad
caught him staring into a mirror and pounding hisself in
the head. He tried then tried to get David to
go get help, but David wouldn't go get help. Not
only would he not go get help, he told his

(01:31:30):
dad it was too late. He drove to Houston to
visit a friend that he had from the army, and
he talked his friend into buying him a forty five
caliber bulldog or a forty five bulldog. I'm sorry, and
he said that he needed it for protection on the

(01:31:51):
way back to New York. So his friend, you know,
went ahead and did that. Now these barking dogs become unbearable.
You got this sexual fresh dration building up in him.
July twenty ninth, nineteen seventy six, Jody Valente was dropping
off her friend Donna Lauria in the Bronx David's song.

(01:32:13):
They were laughing, they were parked, just having a good
time in front of the apartment building. He circles around
a little bit, sees him. Then he decides he's going
to drive about two blocks down. He parks his car,
He walks back, circles around the car well. Jody turns
around and sees him, and she says, who's there. He

(01:32:37):
pulls the gun out of a brown paper bag and
just started shooting. And then he just kind of stood
there frozen, like he can't believe what he did, Donna,
I'm sorry, Jackie TACKI. Jody kind of leaned forward and
just started hitting the horn. Well, Donna's dad was in

(01:33:01):
the apartment building upstairs. He sees what's going on. He
rushes out David. By the time her dad gets there,
he's already took off running.

Speaker 5 (01:33:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:09):
Dad comes down there. He grabs Donna up into his arms,
but by that time it was too late. She was dead.
Jody was shot in the thigh, but she was able
to give a full description of him, Yeah, because he
stood there staring at her, so she got a really
good look. He fled in a nineteen seventy yellow Ford Galaxy. Now,

(01:33:34):
he said that he felt a certain level of peace. Ninja,
we're talking about a guy who don't like barking dogs.
And now you're going to jump in here. Do you
want a son of sand to come busit you.

Speaker 5 (01:33:49):
I'll protect you, Ninja, you will not, all right.

Speaker 3 (01:33:52):
So, anyway, he said he felt a level of peace
after shooting them. And then he said that if it
was like a sexual or it was like having an orgasm,
but it wasn't a sexual orgasm. It was more like
a mental one. He said it was after the shooting,
he felt like he was walking on air.

Speaker 5 (01:34:10):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Now keep in mind, at this point he didn't know
if he'd killed anybody or not. He just knew that
he'd shot into the car. He didn't know until the
next day when he was reading the New York Post
and saw that somebody was actually killed. After that, he
started cruising the streets almost every single night looking for victims.

(01:34:35):
He would cruise through neighborhoods that bordered the highway, so
that was kind of his Inmo. And then you're gonna
find that most of his victims were all within like
a two, three or four block radius or where this was.
Almost everything was right there. The fall of seventy six,
he wounded two girls and a guy that he probably
mistook for a woman. One was paralyzed, one was shot

(01:34:58):
in the neck, and the male had to have a
mental plate put in his head. Oh gosh, he knew
at this point in time. This is, according to his
own words, that he was crossing a moral threshold where
a human actually has the ability to play god. He
get he could decide who lived and who died.

Speaker 5 (01:35:18):
Sicico.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
Now this is where you start realizing how really screwed
up this guy. Is he also at the same time
fantasized about being a hero. He would drive around looking
for victims, but at the same time he was also
looking for people to save. What do you mean, just

(01:35:39):
in general, if he's looking for people in distress, he
always had the emergency equipment in the back of his
car in case he ran across like a burning building
or I mean he literally had thoughts of saving somebody
from a burning building and being a hero at the
same time he's looking for somebody to.

Speaker 5 (01:35:54):
Get kil That is really twisted and messed up.

Speaker 3 (01:35:58):
In February of nineteen seventy seven, he with his gun
in his pocket. Mind you, he helped teenagers push a
car out of a snowbank. I mean, that's the kind
of stuff he was doing. Yet later on that night,
he killed a secretary by the name of Christian Frowned.

(01:36:19):
Now keep in mind police didn't have any idea that
all these murders were connected.

Speaker 5 (01:36:25):
So is he he's just basically killing women.

Speaker 3 (01:36:27):
Though, Yes, and we'll get into a little more details
about that. There was a ballistics expert that kept seeing
the same bullet. Now there's three different murders at this point,
and he thought, well, this is kind of a unique gun.
And now he's starting to see this bullet in some cases,

(01:36:49):
and he's like, hey, we've got a wacko out there,
because at this point, nobody had put two and two together.
Five weeks later, on March eighth, the fifth attack happened.
Virginia vastre I'm gonna try this.

Speaker 5 (01:37:06):
I would just say Virginia because that's a long button name.

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Virginia Freshter Reacher. He came up upon her. She's seen him.
She held up her school books. She come home from school.
She held them up to her. Yeah, she held him
up to her face. He shot through the through the
school books and shot her in the head and killed her.

(01:37:30):
By now everybody's starting to put two and two together.
With the police, he was known as the forty four
caliber killer. That's what the newspapers were starting to call him.
That's what the police were calling him. At this point,
he was mainly killing and going after wounding women with
short I'm sorry, women with long brunette hair. That's what

(01:37:52):
they were looking. So what started happening was he was
terrorizing the town so much that women started cutting their
hair short. They started wearing the hair up and they
started dying it. If they had dark hair, they would
diet blonde or red or whatever because they thought he
was only looking.

Speaker 5 (01:38:09):
For Yeah, you know, I would have done the same thing, right.

Speaker 3 (01:38:13):
But so that's kind of that kind of was the
thought process. Now, in April of nineteen seventy seven, his
neighbor's Sam Carr, with the barking dogs. He wrote a
letter to him, to Sam, and he's basically said, if
you don't control your dogs, I'm going to take legal action.

(01:38:34):
This is a guy that's like killing people, wounding people,
but he's going to write a letter to his next
door neighbors saying he's going to file legal action. He
showed in this letter that he wrote him how much
he really wanted a relationship. This is according to experts
after the fact reading this stuff. Because keep in mind,

(01:38:56):
up to this point, as far as I know, he's
never been with a woman.

Speaker 5 (01:39:00):
I don't get where he wrote a letter. Okay, I'll
let you finish. It's got to be something in there.

Speaker 3 (01:39:05):
Right Well, the letter that he wrote to Sam Carr,
it talked about a wife that he had, which he
really didn't have. He basically said, look, you know my
wife and I are wanting to spend some time alone.
We've taken some time off work to be together, to
be able to read, to make love, to just sleep

(01:39:26):
in if we want to, and we're not getting any
piece at all because of your barking dogs. Well, I mean,
why he didn't just write and say, hey, your dog's
are barking. I can't get any sleep or it's getting
He put all this into so that tells people, That
tells the FBI profilers that he really would want it
to be in a relationship. He's at this point, he

(01:39:51):
gets no response at all from Sam Carr, his neighbor.
So now he's wrote this letter if nothing comes back.
April seventeenth, at three, he's heading home and he walks
up to a patrol car and he drops a note.
Now you've got to keep in mind the cops now
are kind of on to some of what's going on.

(01:40:14):
And this is gonna sound extremely stupid, but after they
figured out the bullets, they started talking about this guy
has an MO and his MO is very similar to
Starsky and Hutch some episodes of Starskin Hutch. They literally

(01:40:37):
watched every episode of Starsky and Hutch hoping it would
give them a lead.

Speaker 5 (01:40:41):
Oh my goodness, So he drops this.

Speaker 3 (01:40:43):
Now that he knows that the cops are looking for
him and it's starting to come out in the paper,
he starts getting kind of cocky.

Speaker 5 (01:40:49):
So, you mean he dropped a note in the police
car with a police in it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
I don't think the cop was there, but there was
a patrol car. He literally had this sealed up letter
that had a detective's name on it on the outside
of the letter the envelope. He drops it by the
patrol car. Then he walks straight up to a car
and starts firing into the car. Valentina Siriana and Alexander

(01:41:15):
Esau were both killed instantly. The note was the first
solid lead that they actually had on him. I mean,
everybody kind of was starting to put two and two together.
They had they had, you know, eyewitness, a counsel, what
the guy looked like, but they didn't have anything to
tie him.

Speaker 5 (01:41:33):
Gloves to drop the Oh I don't know, yeah, because
they have got fingerprints.

Speaker 3 (01:41:37):
I'm sure they probably could have. We're still talking in
the seventies. I don't know how good all their fingerprint
technology was back in the seventies. So here's what some
of The letter says, I am hurt by how you're
calling me a woman hater. I'm not, but I am
a monster. I am the son of Sam. I love

(01:42:00):
to hunt proud the streets. I don't want to kill anymore, period,
but I must honor thy father. Let me haunt you
with these words. I'll be back, kind of like Arnold Towlzenegger.

(01:42:21):
But I didn't kill people like that.

Speaker 5 (01:42:23):
It was well he did, But what is so crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:42:28):
This started the biggest man hunt ever in New York City.
It's like I said, they did all the star skin
hunt stuff. A week later, he wrote Sam Carr another letter.
He said, it's obvious I'm not going to have any
peace in my life until I end to your life.

Speaker 5 (01:42:49):
Oh gosh, well that's pretty straightforward.

Speaker 3 (01:42:52):
Then he shot and wounded his dog.

Speaker 5 (01:42:54):
All right, dog spark. That's what they do.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
The papers. We're starting to really come out and try
to even put stuff. And the papers came out and
they said, hey, son of Sam, you need to give up.
This is actually headlines in the paper.

Speaker 5 (01:43:11):
Oh wow.

Speaker 3 (01:43:13):
He responded with a very eerie poem, and I'll read
you some of it. He says, Hello from the gutters
of New York City, which are filled with dog manure, vomit,
still wine, urine and blood. I'm still here. I'm like
a spirit roaming the night, thirsty, hungry, seldom stopping to rest,

(01:43:35):
anxious to please Sam. I love my work. Now the
void has been fulfilled.

Speaker 5 (01:43:42):
And none of that rhymed, by.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
The way, well you know, not all poems rhyme.

Speaker 5 (01:43:47):
One damn thing rhymed. That's a turn off.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
June twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven, he stalked out a
disco in Queens. He shot and wounded two more girls.
But see this was a little different because he hadn't
went to Queens in any of them everything I told
you before. Remember it was in like a couple of

(01:44:14):
two three four block radius. Not only that, you know
he it was a disco, so they probably deserved it. Okay,
I'm just kidding, but it was. It was disco. He
should have just shot all the albums.

Speaker 5 (01:44:29):
Well, he shouldn't shoot at all.

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
But if you're gonna shoot something, disco albums would have been.

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
Well.

Speaker 5 (01:44:34):
I love disco, so whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:44:36):
July thirty first, it's another name I have trouble for pronouncing.
Stacy Moscowitz and Robert, Why does everybody in the city
have to have our name. We're talking about New York City,
and you think I was talking about Russia or something.
So Stacy Moscovich and Robert via leieda sorry, Robert, if

(01:45:00):
you're still alive. They were making out in a car
like hot and heavy making out. He shot both of
them while they were making out.

Speaker 5 (01:45:11):
That's just rude.

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
Stacey lived for thirty nine hours before she passed. Robert
lost one eye and was partially blinded in another eye.

Speaker 5 (01:45:23):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:45:25):
Now, because of the fact that this thing, you know,
he was starting to become famous for all this. Her
murder was basically all over the world's news at this point.
It made headline news everywhere. Why well, part of the
fact was now the police were starting to have the
letters and all this stuff, and this is really the

(01:45:47):
first one after the letters. So now the fact that
they had leads and stuff and they had the biggest
man hunt going on, it just was something that everybody
now was keeping up with only feels important. I mean,
because he's all over the place, he's the son of Sam,
and he's all over the papers. I Mean, here's the

(01:46:08):
thing though about Stacy he also we told you he
went outside the area of the Queen's Yeah, which gives
a whole different level of scaredness because people and queen
wouldn't worry about him because they wasn't going out there.
Stacey was short hair and blonde. He was the exact
opposite of what he had been doing. So now he

(01:46:33):
basically just hasn't He can scare everybody now because now
it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter
what park Now he can be anywhere. Here's the funny thing.
The night that he killed Stacy, he watched cops actually
put a parking ticket on his car. Damn. He paid

(01:46:54):
the parking ticket. A week later, cops tracked the car
down to David Berklewitz. They discovered that he had been
sending harassing letters to several people, including a man named
Sam Carr that said he shot his dog.

Speaker 5 (01:47:14):
See so she give for paying your damn parking ticket.

Speaker 3 (01:47:17):
Dumb, dumb So August tenth, nineteen seventy seven, they had
a large team of agents sat outside of his apartment building.
He came walking out with a paper bag, got into
the car. Then a cop came over to pointed a

(01:47:40):
gun on ton him the freeze, which he did. He
looked up at the cop and said, well, you finally
got me, and the cop says, who do I have?
He said, the son of Sam. No fights.

Speaker 5 (01:47:54):
I can't believe you gave up better easy.

Speaker 3 (01:47:56):
Yep, no fights, no struggle, just flat up.

Speaker 5 (01:48:01):
The cop was like yo.

Speaker 3 (01:48:05):
He confessed to everything. He revealed details that only the
killer would have known.

Speaker 5 (01:48:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:48:10):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:48:12):
Not only that, he enjoyed talking about it.

Speaker 5 (01:48:14):
Well, I can see that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
He smiled NonStop. If you look at any videos of
him being taken in by police walking through the court,
there's video footage of him in the back of the
police cruiser. He is grinning ear to ear. Kind of
scary when you think about it. Police said that he
was very nice and polite. They asked him why he

(01:48:41):
paid the parking ticket and he said because I'm a
law abiding citizen.

Speaker 5 (01:48:49):
Apparently he doesn't know what that means all the way.
Oh my gosh, well, thank god he paid that parking ticket.

Speaker 3 (01:48:57):
He came out and said that he was ordered to
kill by demons and his name, his neighbor, Sam Carr,
was the devil and Sam Carr was the one putting
all this into his head. Mainly and sending his demons
to and that's why he was hearing the barking dogs
and all that. It was just a way of tormenting him. Basically,

(01:49:24):
he spent eight months being evaluated to see if he
was fit to stand trial. Now, the people where he
was staying at it was it was still like a jail,
but it was more like a mental institution of last jail.
They said that for the first several months he was there,
that he ate like a horse and slept very well.

(01:49:46):
I mean, that doesn't sound like somebody that's got any
concerns whatsoever. He said that he didn't have anything against
any of his victims, that they never did anything to him,
but Sam wanted them all dead. Therefore, he's got to
do what pleased his master, which was Sam. Now you've

(01:50:09):
moved forward just a little bit longer, and those feelings
kind of went away to where and now he's feeling suicidal.
They found out that he was fit to stand trial,
and he decided, against his attorney's wishes, to plead guilty.
He called his dad to tell his dad that he

(01:50:32):
was going to plead guilty and to forgive him for that,
which I imagine his dad probably won't have shit to
do with him.

Speaker 5 (01:50:38):
Why would say not?

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
And when his dad found out that he was the killer,
there was a press conference with his dad and his
dad just said that he just sat and cried, you know,
because he said he knew he had issues and just
to know that his son that they brought up was
responsible for killing six people and woundings of others in

(01:51:01):
a year's time and causing so much other havoc and
terror on a city that it just was too much
to handle. So I don't know why he would even
call his dad to say, hey, I'm sorry, we're pleading guilty. Well,
what you did it? I mean, pleading guilty party an't
what you need to be apologizing for.

Speaker 5 (01:51:17):
Maybe just imagine how hard that is on his dad
to have to live with that.

Speaker 3 (01:51:20):
And his dad by this time was like in his
late sixties, like sixty seven, sixty eight years old, so
he was starting to be an older guy. So anyway,
so in May nineteen seventy eight, he pleaded guilty. Two
weeks later on the day of the sentencing. This is
weird in its own self. He threw this tantrum, right,

(01:51:42):
he broke the restraints that they had him on. Oh
my gosh, he went into the courtroom. They get, you know,
finally crawling, get him into the courtroom. He sees Stacey
moscow Wich's mom and he starts saying Stacey was a whore.
Stacey was a whore to the mind, and then he screamed,

(01:52:08):
that's right, I killed him and I'd kill them all again. Well,
they pull him out of the courtroom. June thirteenth, which
is about two weeks later, they bring him back in
and this time he's like a completely different person. He's
completely calm and all that and the