Kinfolklore: Stranger Things Bonus Episode (Trailer, First Shadow Play, First 5 mins)

This episode delves into the trailer for Season Five of "Stranger Things," which dropped on October 30th, and the initial five minutes of the forthcoming season. Andrea and Paul offer a thorough exploration of the trailer's content, dissecting its implications and potential foreshadowing of the series' climax. Additionally, we discuss the stage play "The First Shadow," a prequel to the series, and speculate on how it will be integrated into the final season's plot arc.

Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Welcome to kinfolklore.
We've got a Stranger Thingsbonus episode for you today.
I'm Andrea.
That's right.
I'm Paul.
And the season five trailerdropped on October 30th, and we also
could not wait to talk about it.
We waited a little bit becausethere was also the five minutes of

(00:31):
first five minutes.
Minutes of Stranger Things 5.
So we're gonna talk about all that.
So in the first part of thepod, we're gonna talk about the trailer.
And then the first fiveminutes, which Netflix released on
Stranger Things day.
What stood out, what it mightmean, how it sets up the final season.
And then in the second half,we'll be talking about the first

(00:53):
shadow, the stage play, andthe acts that acts as a prequel to
Stranger Things.
And this episode of the POD isacting as a preque to the drop of
season five.
So everything after thetrailer we discussed.
The trailer will includepotential Season 5 spoilers.

(01:15):
Obviously, the first fiveminutes is definitely a spoiler,
and the information from theplay, which is a prequel, but we
think will be integrated intoseason five will also be.
So if you don't want any ofthose spoilers, you should stop listening
after we talk about the trailer.
And, Andrea, we are going tosuch beautiful things together as

(01:38):
we cover this show.
And it will have some adult content.
Let's go.
Let's start with ourobservations of the trailer.
So beginning looks a lot likethe library in the Upside Down.
It's a recall.
The library was where Will wasfound in season one by Joyce and

(02:03):
Hopper.
So, yeah, and we got our boy,Henry Creel, Vecna, saying, at last
we can begin one.
What are we beginning?
Okay, that sounds very ominous.
Vecna, I'm gonna need you to relax.
Bring it down a notch.
And what have we been doingfor four seasons?

(02:24):
You mean you haven't begun yet?
Well, I actually think this isa flashback.
I think that this is actuallyfrom season one.
Well, the time period coveringseason one, I think that this is
taking place in 1983.
The library looks verysimilarly to how it looked in 1983.

(02:44):
We know that the Upside downdoesn't look exactly how it looked
then.
And I have some other reasonsthat I think.
I think Will is in thebackground of the shot.
It's hard to see.
It's a little tough, but I think.
I think you can see his sneaker.
And I think the Demogorgonthat captured him is who Vecna is

(03:06):
speaking to.
Yeah.
And that's a good.
I think that's a good call outbecause I think, like, you know,
we've gotten in interviewswith the Duffers, them stating that
we're going to understand whathappened to Will and his connection
to the Upside down and whatthe Upside down is.
So I think.
I think.
Yeah, let's.
Let's.
I. I like that theory thatthis is like a flashback to what

(03:28):
happened on that night behindthe scenes.
Yeah.
And then the next scene isDustin busting into Hawkins High.
Changed.
His mannerisms changed.
He.
He's really different than hewas before Eddie's death.
Yeah.
There's definitely a heavyheaviness to him.

(03:49):
How he looks.
It kind of feels.
Eddie ish.
Honestly.
It feels like he's taken on.
He's taken to heart what Eddiesaid to him, which is that they were
the future of the Hell.
The Hellfire Club and to goout there and recruit and there's
a defiance.
Right.
The Hellfire Club at the endof season four is under immense scrutiny.

(04:14):
And he's wearing his HellfireClub T shirt.
Yeah.
No.
100%.
So, yeah.
Seems like he's changed.
He also looks like he's lateron gotten some bruises and beat up
and kind of.
And that's concerning as well.
Like.
So I have a few theories about that.

(04:36):
I think those are from.
So I think the majority ofthis trailer is from the first four
episodes.
That's really typical fortrailers in general, but especially
for Stranger Things.
I always put out a trailerthat's like the first few episodes.
I do have a.
Some.
Some speculation about whetheror not some other scenes are from

(04:58):
later episodes and we can talkabout which ones those are.
The Duffers did say that thereis a frame from every single episode
in this trailer, but the waythey're weaved together, I think
I'm thinking about the.

(05:19):
How do I want to put this?
I'm thinking about the firstfour episodes, Volume one, as Dustin
getting beat up as kind of thebefore he gets beat up in the after.
And so I think that somethingis gonna happen to Dustin in that

(05:40):
first episode.
My guess is it's gonna be afight with another kid.
I think this is gonna be likeone of the human monster moments.
Not.
Not that he's beat up in a battle.
I think this is going to belike a high school thing.
I agree.
I think so, too.
I think it's going to be ahigh school thing too.
And he's.
Yeah, for sure.

(06:00):
So let's talk about, like,what's the state of Hawkins?
It sounds like it looks likein this.
From what we're seeing fromthe Trailer.
You know, you see Mike andElle sitting on the roof of the squawk.
And.
And it looks like Hawkinslooks to be under quarantine.
And the radio station does notappear to be in downtown Hawkins.

(06:22):
So I think that's why it makesa good base for them, because it's
not in the middle of the action.
Okay.
But the tunnels from season two.
I think those are the tunnelsfrom season two.
I don't know what othertunnels would exist.
They look too clean.
But the tunnels from seasontwo are of use to them.
They can travel underneathHawkins and maybe even into the Upside

(06:46):
down using those tunnels.
So I think it seems like theremight be one in the radio station,
huh?
Yeah.
Because they open up a door there.
Right.
I couldn't tell if that wasthe actual.
If that was the library of theradio station, but I think, yes,
they have easy access to thetunnels, and I think it's maybe quite

(07:07):
likely that that's mostlywhere Hopper and Elle live.
In the tunnel.
Yes.
Yeah, makes sense.
I like that.
I like that take, too.
So we see that, you know,present there.
Mike is kind of leading again.
You have.
You have Joyce, Will, Lucas,Nancy, Robin.

(07:30):
Jonathan looks accounted for.
Steve, obviously, we talkedabout Dustin, but there's no l in
those shots where all of themare together.
And there's no Hopper andthere's no Murray, who is oddly missing
from the whole trailer.
He's in one.
He's in one scene.
Is he?

(07:51):
Yeah.
Murray and Robin are in ascene in the trailer where it looks
like portals are like.
It looks like not portals, butlike the upside down is bleeding
and into the right side up.
But that's the only sceneMurray is in, which makes me concerned
for our guy.
Murray.

(08:13):
Man.
We're not going to.
We're going to.
We're going to hope that noliquor has to be spilled there.
We're going to pray.
We're going to pray for that one.
So it seems like there's goingto be some sort of confrontation
with the Demodogs and Vecna,as we can see in the trailer.
Like, they.
They come and they storm thesite of where they're quarantining.
And there's also.

(08:33):
Vecna shows up.
There's a scene also withJoyce and Mike where there's, like,
a lot of worry looming and worried.
Will's on the couch behindJoyce, and he's passed out.
So I think that scene takesplace after the scene where Vecna
does his.

(08:56):
Will, you can be of help to meonce more.
You think so?
You think that's after?
I think it's after.
So I think.
I think that the scene whereMike is plotting out.
First of all, there's twoscenes where the party is plotting.
One is outside.
It's the one where Will turnsaround and walks away from the picnic

(09:20):
table.
And then the other is thislarger planning session where Joyce
is there along with the older teens.
Okay.
So I think that that plan withthe older teens is what we're seeing
with Nancy with the.
The.
The gun, with Steve drivingthrough Hawkins.

(09:45):
All of that, I think is a partof the plan.
Very traditional, strangerthings like caper plan.
And it goes very wrong becauseVecna pops up outside of the library
and takes Will.
I don't think he takes Will's body.
I think he takes Will's like,consciousness and leaves the body

(10:07):
behind.
And that's what is behind couch.
Behind couch.
Behind Joyce on the couch isWill passed out.
And then I think that's why Eland Hopper heading into the Upside
down to try to retrieve.
Well, well, got it.
And save.

(10:28):
Save.
Well, I don't.
Obviously, this is notperfect, Right?
We're just speculating.
I don't know a lot.
We got to fill in a bunch ofstuff here.
But, you know, there are thethree scenes.
Two scenes I'm pretty sure arenot from the first volume are the.

(10:48):
Well, the tower that we seeRobin looking up at.
We.
That's confirmed, I think, byMatt Duffer.
That's not gonna.
That's in volume two.
Okay.
And then whoever is fallingbetween worlds in that really amazing
looking scene, but we can'tsee who it is.
The.
The main speculation is it'sWill, Max, or Holly.

(11:19):
Some people on Twitter haveblown up the picture.
It does look like it could beMax or Holly.
It doesn't look like it's.
Well, but I. I think it couldgo either way.
It's very.
It's very far away.
I think that that's fromchapter six, which is in volume two,
the episode titled Escape fromCamazots, which is also written by

(11:41):
Kate Treffery.
So who wrote the spy fromseason two, which is the most important
episode according to the Duffers?
So is this a place where youkind of want to talk about your spy
theory before we go anyfurther into the trailer or you want
to leave that?

(12:02):
I mean, we can talk about it here.
Because I like it.
I like it.
I've sat with it for all daysince you've told me.
I like it a lot.
I think.
I think it works.
Yeah.
I mean, there's not that muchmore to say about the trailer that
hasn't been well covered.
But.
So when the.
After the trailer came out,there was a big interview done with

(12:25):
ew, right?
It was ew.
It was.
Yep.
And in that interview, somethings were confirmed, some things
were a little, you know, theyleft us a little bread.
But one thing that was stated,I think, by Ross Duffer was that
season two, episode six is themost important episode to answer.

(12:45):
You know, connect it with theconnective tissue to this season
and the questions about Willand why Will was chosen and all of
that.
That episode is called the Spy.
And just so for everyone'smemory, that is the episode where
Will.
It becomes evident that Willis possessed by the Mind Flayer.

(13:09):
I watched that episode todayand one.
It's a really good episode anda bunch of other stuff happens.
It's also the episode whereJonathan and Nancy get together and
there's like a bunch of thingsthat happen in that episode.
But the most important thingthat I drew from that is about when

(13:30):
Will.
It becomes evident that Willis possessed when he's talking to
Dr. Owens.
So what happens is Will wakesup from his.
He had passed out from theevents of the night before, which
is getting Hopper out of thetunnels and they burned up the vines.
And that hurt Will.
He's in the hospital and hewakes up and he says, mom.

(13:53):
But he doesn't recognize Boband he doesn't recognize Mike.
So then eventually Dr. Owensis questioning him and he asks him
who's, you know, he asked him,does he know who Mike is?
And it takes him a minute, buthe says, my friend Mike.
Then when it's Hopper jumps innext and says, do you remember who
I am?

(14:13):
And Will has no idea whoHopper is.
And then he says, do youremember what happened last night
when you saved me?
And Will says, no.
And so Owen starts to it.
So for me, at this point, Willis not in the room with us.
This is not really.
Well, this is some otherentity who has some fragments of

(14:36):
Will's memory.
Like he remembers who Mike iswith with great effort, but he's
not really.
Doesn't know who Bob is,doesn't know who Hopper is, doesn't
know who he.
He.
All he can say about Dr.Owens, a man he's been meeting with
weekly for a year, is thatyou're a doctor.
So this is not well.
So when Owens continues toquestion him, Will says, they hurt

(15:02):
me, meaning the soldiers thatwere burning the vines, they hurt
me.
Using first person pronounsthat upset him, using A pronoun that
is not first person.
Right.
So now we're talking about twoseparate entities.

(15:26):
Owen shows him a picture, thepicture he drew of the Mind Flayer,
and he says, is this him?
And Will says, yes.
So here's my thought.
In that room is Vecna.
The Mind Flayer is the big bad him.

(15:47):
That's the him that.
That he's scared of, that iscontrolling everyone.
And if you stick around forthe spoiler section where we're going
to talk about the play, youwill understand why I believe this,
because the play sort ofinforms us on Henry Creel and his
journey into having powers as well.

(16:11):
So here's what I love aboutthis, because, you know, when you
said it to me, I questioned,what could it be?
A flip flop.
You said, no, because this.
And you explained it to me.
And then I sat with it for therest of the day until we started
potting.
And as I thought it through,this tracks so well with my idea

(16:35):
around Will's consciousnessand how it's impacted a lot of the
different things that we'veseen and experience, the ideas that
we've shared around how musicpenetrates certain portion of the
brain, how people can allthose things track so well with that.
If the Mind Flayer is theperson pulling the strings, he could

(16:57):
have impacted Henry Krill, whois now Vecna, and he could be impacting
Will, who is now part ofEndgame and the plan, because that
is the entity that's pullingthe strings, not Vecna.
Vecna is just one.
Vecna was also affected.
And both of them sharing thatsensitivity thread, it may be a precursor

(17:18):
as to why the Mind Flayer isusing them.
And, you know, when you justthink about, I guess, reluctantly
shouts to House Bolton, whenyou think about flaying people and
you think about flaying amind, it peels back things that.

(17:41):
From, you know, peeling backthe skin, but peeling back the top
layers so that the essence is exposed.
And I think, like that idea ofthem being sensitive enough for that
peeling to take place andmultiple people.
The way that it makes a lot ofsense because a lot of this has been.
A lot of the experimentationhas been with thought process, controlling

(18:03):
things with your mind.
How do you.
It just makes a lot of sensethat the Mind flare is pulling the
strings on everybody in a waythat, that, that we've kind of.
And they've moved us away fromthe Mind Flayer so much thematically
in the story that it wouldmake sense that that's the main.
The main Big Bad.
I. Yeah, it.

(18:23):
I mean, I could go either way.
Right.
Because another thing we havelearned is that in that same episode,
Will lies.
He lies.
He lies to Mike.
Right?
That's when he's the spy.
He.
He sets up the scenario tokill a whole bunch of people when

(18:46):
he's spying for the MindFlayer, Vecna.
Whoever.
I just thought it wasinteresting the way that the pronouns
changed.
Right.
Yeah.
So I did want to just.
Just talk this last pieceabout the trailer and then we can
talk about the play.
Yeah.
So I.
There's been a lot ofspeculation about Holly and Karen.

(19:09):
This is the scene with them inthe bathtub has.
I've seen this picture amillion times.
The footage of them in thetrailer is after the bathtub attack
because they're both soaking wet.
It appears that Karen is hurt.
Holly seems like she's okay.
No Ted to be found.

(19:29):
I think Ted got.
I think Ted got.
I think.
I mean, that shouldn't be funny.
I'm sorry.
But if he goes out to save the fam.
Rip, I just think it's like.
It was just funny.
You're like, he got.
Got.
I mean, like, we don't want tosee anything bad happen to Ted.
And I wonder if whateverhappened, I think that's going to
happen literally in episode one.

(19:52):
And whatever happened to Ted,or at the Wheeler House in general,
not just to Ted, is what isgoing to lead to the plan, Mike's
plan, which is going to leadto the confrontation in which Will
gets taken.
So that's kind of how I'mthinking about it.
And then the last thing I wantto say about the trailer is, you

(20:15):
know, what a thing that, like,I don't think we can ignore anymore,
which is that there's justsome kind of nods to the Harry Potter
films, at least, like the.
The.
William, you were gonna helpme one last time.
It's given the Battle of Hogwarts.
It just is.
Even Noah Schnobs, like, putthat on his Instagram.

(20:40):
Like, I just think that thatcomparison is there to be made.
I hate talking about HarryPotter on this podcast, but I just
don't think we can avoid it.
And then the last thing isthat force field that.
The blue force field that Hopper.
I think it's.
Hopper looks up at.
I think that that's probablysome kind of protection spell, but

(21:02):
it also reminds me of theBattle of Hogwarts and the protection
spell that McGonagall castbefore the Death Eaters come.
So isn't That L. That doesthat too, doesn't L do something?
I don't think that's L. Ithink it's edited to be to look like
it's L. I think that'ssomething or someone else.

(21:22):
Okay.
Okay.
So those were.
Those were my observationsfrom the trailer.
Was there anything else thatyou noticed?
I mean, the obvious.
El's skills have leveled up.
I mean, she's.
They didn't make it where shecan fly from what they.
The way they described it, butdamn near close.

(21:44):
Like she's able to propelherself through the air in ways that
we haven't seen her do before.
So the training has been.
Has been working, working out,turns out, training on her own.
She's getting stronger thanwhen she's training with Papa.
Trained.
But she's training with heractual dad.
Right?
Exactly.
She's training in anenvironment where she's not under

(22:05):
duress.
I mean, she's under duress because.
Because the world is falling apart.
But she's not under the duressof the.
The person who's training her.
She's training with someonewho cares about her, who will make
sure she doesn't get hurt.
Who.
Yeah, you know, if she makesmistakes, isn't going to be mad at
her.
So I think that thatdefinitely helps.
But when.

(22:26):
Remember when the teaser cameout and we were like, is Elle flying?
Is that.
I'm like, freeze framing it.
I'm like, what's going on?
So the fact that they just letus see that, I was like, all right.
Which means there's going tobe more shit going on.
Yeah, I'm hyped.
I'm ready now.
Yeah, let's.
Let's go.
I can't wait until November 26th.
Let's go.

(22:46):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
So.
Yeah, no, I think that's it.
I think.
I mean, I think.
Yeah, I think that's it.
That's all I want to talk about.
Because other things wouldlead us down roads that I don't want
to go into, which is potential.
I would say this.
I was gonna say potential.
Spoilers.
If you want more insight intowhat the Duffers are thinking, I

(23:10):
would highly recommend readingthat EW article.
I think it was a really goodarticle to kind of see where their
head is at.
We've referenced a couple ofthings in other episodes.
In the season four episodes,you will hear references around the
whole things they say aboutDarth Vader, but there's some really

(23:33):
good stuff in there.
So with that, if you areuninterested in hearing about the
play or spoilers from the play.
Now is the time that we willjust say thank you for listening
to our takes on the trailer.
We're looking forward totalking about more once the season

(23:53):
drops around season five.
Anyway, please check out allthe coverage that we're doing on
season three, season four, andwhat we've done so far on seasons
one and two.
So we're going to let you goto head out of here.
All right, so let's get into it.
Let's get into the first.
Let's talk about the firstfive minutes.

(24:15):
I would love to unpack.
4 minutes and 38 seconds.
Is that how long it was?
They owe us 42 seconds.
42 seconds.
They owe us 18 seconds.
They owe us 18 seconds.
We will get those 18.
18 seconds tomorrow.
But I. I would.
I would have liked it whenthey promised five minutes.
Yeah, the.
The fans being like, where are18 seconds?

(24:36):
Was possibly the funniestthing about Stranger Things Day.
Stranger Things day was ablast, I gotta say.
Like, it was so fun to seeeverybody walking down the red carpet
telling the stories, you know,interacting with the fans.
The chat was on fire whenpeople showed up.
It was great.
I think the biggest chatresponse had to be to Winona.

(24:59):
So that was freaking great.
But, you know, everybody wasjust waiting.
We were all counting theminutes till we got to see the first
4 minutes and 48 seconds of content.
42 seconds.
And so, I mean, we talkedabout it when we covered season one,
how Will says he's supposed tocast a fireball, and he says the

(25:22):
Demogorgon got me.
And that whole exchange withhim and Mike in front of the Wheeler
house before he goes missing.
So we see Will in the Upsidedown when this opens, and he's using
a gun to try to fight the Demogorgon.
What did you think of that?
Wow.
He's casting fireball right on point.
It's like on the nose.

(25:43):
It's like, there it is.
He cast a fireball spell toget away.
But it was.
I also just think that, like,I think we all thought that Will
was, like, passively hidingthis that whole time.
I'm like, oh, shoot.
Will.
Will use the gun.
Justice for Will Byers.
Justice.
Will.
He channeling Nancy, right?

(26:05):
And pulled out that gun, shotthat Demogorgon right in the face.
Right in the face.
Jonathan skipped sharpshootingclass in the Byers family because
he sucked at it.
And then Nancy and Will arekilling it.
But, I mean, justice for Will.
Everybody was like, oh, he'snot brave.
He doesn't do this.
All he does is use his censor stuff.
Will was out here jumping over.

(26:27):
Jumping from one tree to thenext, outrunning Demogorgons, being
failed by his fucking JanSport.
Like, I mean, come on.
Okay, the JanSport is notsupposed to hold your entire body
on a branch.
Listen, this is slanderagainst JanSport.
This is a very, very New York thing.
I don't know how many of y'all did this, but listen, you had

(26:50):
to have a JanSport book baggoing to school, and it had to have
the ties.
Like, you had to have multiplelittle ties like that you put on
the zippers.
Let me tell you something.
If that kid Will Byers wasgoing to school in Queens, Brooklyn,
Staten Island.
Well, maybe not Staten Island,Manhattan, one of those fucking ties

(27:11):
on the zippers would havecaught him.
It's true.
He would have.
It would have been.
It would have been thoroughlyfortified for his body weight.
Is true.
Oh, man.
Anyway, but so he takes off, like.
And, you know, he's kind ofgetting away.
I mean, we find out that aDemogorgon can.
We kind of knew Demogorgonscould climb, but in season one, we

(27:34):
didn't know Demogorgons could climb.
So he finds out for the time.
First.
First time as the character.
So I have.
After seeing this scene.
Okay, I guess we should justfinish what.
What happened?
So then the Demogorgon doescatch him and takes him to the library,
which is important becausethis is where he is found when Joyce
and Hopper find him at the endof season one.

(27:58):
And that is where heencounters Vecna, who then hooks
him up to the vines, which weknow represent the hive mind.
There's some kind of thingmoving through these vines.
I'm assuming it's slugs.
I'm assuming that Dart was.
Dart is one of the ones thatwas in there.

(28:18):
Yeah.
And he says, at long last, wecan begin.
We're going to do beautifulthings together.
Very creepy scene.
But also, when this was over,I think we were both like, wait,
we have more questions nowthan we did before.
Because it's clear that Vecnaspecifically wanted Will.

(28:42):
It wasn't just like any kid.
It wasn't like Barb could havealso been, you know, whatever Vecna
wanted from her.
Right.
Like, it was clearly that hespecifically wants Will.
So I think this is confirmingfor me that something is special
about Will Byers.
I agree.

(29:02):
I agree.
Also still have questionsabout how Will ended up in the Upside
down in the first place.
Who bought him into the Upside Down?
Was it Vecna Was it the Demogorgon?
The Demogorgon obviously, isfollowing Vecna's instructions.
It literally bows to him.
Also, I hope, very much hope,this is the same Demogorgon that's

(29:25):
gonna get murked later in thisnight by Jonathan, Nancy, and Steve.
Yeah, that is gonna be great.
But, yeah, this is alltranspiring mere hours before Joyce
and Hopper get Will out of theUpside Down.
Because the moment that wecome into seeing Will is right after

(29:50):
is.
Is right after Elle sees himfrom the.
The deprivation tank that theymade in the gym.
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying.
I would have.
I would have liked to, I guess.
And we'll find out more aboutthis, but, like, when we talked earlier,
we talked about.
We think he went to probablyDimension X could potentially.
And then that's still on thetable that he created the Upside

(30:12):
Down.
It would have been interestingthat that first scene that we see,
I started thinking, well,maybe this isn't the Upside Down.
But the thing that debunksthat for me is that he ends up in
the library.
So it has to be the Upsidedown, right?
Like, it literally has to be.
Because I was like, well,maybe this isn't the Upside down
that he's in.
And then when the vine getsconnected to him, he starts to create
the Upside down from his thoughts.

(30:33):
But it looks like it's a.
It's.
It's something else that'shappening here.
So.
But.
But, but, but, but.
But this is six days in.
Huh?
Will got snatched on November 6th.
He got rescued on November12th, according to the math of the
fan community.

(30:54):
Yeah.
So this is six days in.
So who knows what this worldlooked like when he initially landed.
There is a question that.
That this creates for me is.
Is Dimension X the Upside Down?
Are these two different places?
Yeah, I'm with you.

(31:14):
I would love to.
I would love an answer to that.
So let's.
I want to talk about somethingI know has been a point of contention,
because this is, like, at themeat of it, people have been saying,
oh, well, Will knew the wholetime that Vecna.
About Vecna.
But then he doesn't sayanything to the rest of the group.

(31:36):
So we've watched this trailera few times.
I mean, this first fiveminutes a few times.
Obviously, Will's eyes arerolling back into the back of his
head.
So you could interpret that.
Oh, his eyes are open.
But I don't know.
If your eyes are rolling theback of your head, you're probably
not seeing who's in front of you.
So you have to almost assumethat he didn't see Vecna, he didn't

(31:57):
see him, even though peopleare interpreting it that way because
his eyes aren't literallyclosed and he's not unconscious only,
but he is unconsciouscompletely until whatever is going
in through the vine startsgoing into his body.
And then that's when you startseeing his eyes roll back into the
back of his head.
So what do you think aboutthis moment?
Is he conscious of what'sgoing on?

(32:19):
Is he not conscious?
Like, what is your thought?
I think that I have twoexplanations for Will not.
Well, three, actually.
Okay.
One explanation is, like, sortof the simplest one, that he's not
contrast.
So he doesn't.
He has no idea what's going on.
And remember he's going to diein a few hours and be brought back

(32:40):
to life by Hopper.
The second one is that he experiences.
This is a trauma that, like,with Elle forgetting about Henry,
he forgets all of this.
He doesn't have any memory of this.
And there's.
There could be a lot ofreasons for that.

(33:03):
And then my third one is,yeah, Will's known this whole time
and hasn't shared with theteam, which would make sense for
what Vecna says to him in thetrailer, which is, you know, you're
gonna help me one last time.
So if he's been helping himthis whole time, I mean, could it

(33:25):
be that Will has beensubconsciously being a villain?
I think we.
We have to look at.
I think we have to look atWill's actions in season four through
that lens.
Like letting Elle get bullied.
Who knows?

(33:46):
But.
But I don't think that'swhat's happening here.
I think, like, most likely isthat Will didn't have access to any
of these memories.
And I guess I would have to goback and look at season two to see
what Will says about his timein Upside down to Owens, whether

(34:07):
or not he.
He notes that he doesn'tremember a lot.
I don't remember.
I actually don't remember.
Season two is probably myleast watched season.
Yeah, I think a lot of peoplefeel that go that way.
And I think the Duffers kindof drew us back to about what they
said about season two and kindof like trying to find what's going.

(34:27):
I think this goes back to someof the theories that we've talked
about throughout our coverageof the previous seasons.
I think two of them that popout right away are the way that you've
positioned Vecna with the mindFlayer and Will, when he's talking
to Owens and he's explainingin that scene about after they've

(34:48):
burned the vines and went inwith what he was saying about him
versus me versus us, like, andthese way he positioned that so it
sounds like he's talking aboutthe mind flare.
And I think the other theorythat kind of popped up watching his
first five minutes is, I thinkthe way we read it when we were talking
about, when I mentioned that everyone.
I always read it, that theywent in and saved Will.

(35:12):
But there's anotherinterpretation that could be hanging
out there for us, that he wasintentionally allowed to leave because
it doesn't make sense that hewas alive still and stayed alive
when Barb was dead andeverybody else was dead.
There's a reason why hesurvived and that this could be part
of them, like part of plantinga kind of bug in the ecosystem of
the.

(35:32):
Of the party.
And I.
And I kind of.
I mean, I kind of think, like,that's being proven out somewhat
in this first five minutes.
This could all have been aplot to get to El as well.
You know, Vecna is clearlykeeping tabs on folks, as we know
from what he says to Nancy andabout her trip to see Victor Creel.

(35:55):
He can.
He can keep tabs on this worldeven if he's not in it.
And so I wonder if he realizedthat El had been linked up with Will's
people and thought that Willwould be a better spy.
And then because L disappearsfor a year, he needs to kind of like

(36:19):
accelerate that plan when hehas the mind, like, the mind Flayer
fully possesses Will, becausenow he can't find El because she's
being hidden by Hopper.
So the plan has to be accelerated.
But, you know, they kind oftalk about a little bit in four,
right?
Like when he's saying we built.
Like in three and four, theytalk about, we built all of this

(36:42):
for you, and all of this wasbeing built for her.
Like you said, L goes missing.
But perhaps he also mentionshe couldn't create portals without
killing some of the peoplethat he killed in season four.
And the only person who couldhelp him do that was L. So all this
time, he maybe was trying tospy on where El was, who she was.

(37:03):
So you're right.
I think keeping him aliveallows him to do that more than anything.
I mean, killing Barb doesexactly what he wants to do, too,
because it actually keepsNancy investigating what's going
on with this and keeps herengaged in a way that he.
He can keep tabs on her fromundoing anything because obviously
I'm going be keep it real ofthe whole, of the whole party right

(37:24):
now.
Two of the biggest threats tohim are the two people who he, I
mean, is, are Nancy and l.Like, they're, they're, they're two
of the biggest ones, you know, So.
I don't.
But I actually think that the,the biggest threats to him and to
his power over Will, at least,are Joyce and Jonathan.

(37:46):
Yeah, for sure.
But I don't think he sees thatbecause I don't think he ever thinks
about love as a weapon.
Yeah, I agree.
And we've talked about that.
I agree with you on that.
I totally agree with you on that.
So I, I, this first fiveminutes, just like I, I was grateful
for it.
I'm grateful for any content.
Yeah.

(38:06):
I was like, oh, now I havemore questions.
I mean, one of the questions I have.
And I love the makeup on this show.
I love the stuff.
I love everything.
I know there's times where wekind of like bagging or whatever,
but I gotta say, every now andthen there's a shot of Vecna where
the first thing that pops intomy mind is, you're a mean one, Mr.

(38:26):
Grinch.
I saw someone, someone onThreads said, doesn't.
Doesn't the vecna look likethe Grinch?
And once they said it, I like, couldn't.
I. I can't see it.
I can't unsee it.
It's like, holy, he looks likethe Grinch who stole Will.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's it.
Totally true.

(38:47):
But I will say this for the,the, the hair and makeup and the
other effects.
I mean, we talked about thetrailer already.
But I, I just want to sayLucas's hair in the trailer is concerning.
It's very concerning.
And I do not understand whyNetflix cannot get the same wig people

(39:09):
as Bridgerton to do this show.
I just don't get it.
Karen's wig is a mess.
Linda Hamilton's wig in thetrailer is a mess.
And Lucas's wig is also a mess.
So back to the first five minutes.
This Will CGI thing is notworking for me.
Yeah, I do think I looked at aside by side.

(39:32):
It does look like Will fromseason one.
It just looks so uncanny thatit takes you out of the moment.
I think they did a much betterjob with de aging Elle in season
four.
Yeah.
And.
But she didn't look likeherself either.
If I remember when I first sawit, I was like, it, it feels weird,
you know, I don't know.
I don't.
I'm with you, though.

(39:52):
I'm with you.
That, that, that one looksbetter than Will.
But it's a hard process.
It takes a lot.
It takes a lot of work to do.
I think, like, the fact thatyou can even get close is commendable.
I think this is one of thosetechnologies that will get better
with time.
I totally agree.
Yeah.
I mean, it's gotten so muchbetter over years.

(40:12):
Over the years, but it's.
It's a little bit tough,especially since this show is opening
on it.
Yeah, it's opening on.
On this, like, weirdlyrendered young, like, younger version
of Will.
But I get it.
Vecna was never a part oftheir original plan.

(40:32):
Yeah, they had an idea for anentity that was Vecna like, but they
hadn't fully conceptualizedwhat Vecna would be.
And so even if they had filmedthis wet in season one, they would
have still had.
Some of.
It would have still lookedweird because they would have had
to add Vecna.
Yeah.
So I get it.
I think between this and theaging up of Holly, we should just

(40:53):
let it go.
We're going to have to declarefan bankruptcy on those topics because
there is no.
I mean, there's some thingsthat the Duffers do, which I respect.
They just commit to it, andthey just like, hey, if you guys
don't want to.
This is what it is.
This is.
This is what it is.
We're going to have a kid thatkind of looks like Will.
His mannerisms will be the same.
We're going to have Holly ageup so that she's in high school already

(41:14):
or middle school school.
This is just.
This is how it's going to go.
So just deal with it.
And I would.
I'm fine.
I'm fine with it.
The Holly thing actuallybothers me more than the Will thing.
But, like, I.
It is what it is.
I just think that there's.
I think there's.
I, I hate to say it.
We've danced around it.
I don't know.
I, I, I'm just want toregister it.

(41:35):
We're a day before this thingdrops, there's going to be times.
I feel like there's going tobe time stuff.
I feel like there's gonna betime stuff.
And when.
I mean time stuff.
I mean, time jumps.
Things in the past.
We already know that thingsare stuck in a certain moment.
They've already introducedthat there's something going on with
time, not only with the clock,but with the fact that it's stuck
on the exact day inside theUpside down that Will went missing,

(41:58):
that Nancy's able to see,like, things don't exist that have
moved on and kept going.
There's some reason that Vecnaknew to pull Will, and I think it's
gonna have to do with time stuff.
And he says something to him.
We're gonna do some beautifulthings together.
Same way that in the trailer,he says, this will be the last time
you help me.
That in season four also makesmention of the fact that you and

(42:22):
your friends.
To Elliot, you and yourfriends think you've won.
This is only just thebeginning, indicating that he knows
something else has.
That this was going to happen.
Like, he had an idea that allthis had to play out that way.
So I feel like there's gonnabe time stuff.
I agree.
I think there.
There might be time stuff.
I don't want it, but I don'twant it either.

(42:43):
I think.
I think that's a fair.
I. I think that, like, we knowthat Elle can see the past.
If she goes into someone'smind, she can see their memory.
She can see.
Can Vecna go beyond that?
Maybe.
And he's.
He's been gathering a lot ofenergy over this time.

(43:06):
Brenner says it like he.
This dude's been out ofcommission for.
What is that, like, close to a decade?
Like eight years?
Yeah.
Since you.
Since he's talking to Al andhe says since you sent him back,
like, sent him to somewhere else.
So, like, we don't know whathe's been doing in that time.

(43:28):
He could.
He could have been acquiringnew powers.
We just don't know.
And I do think that it's fairto call it out because we have the
back to the future stuff.
We have Elle's monologue fromseason four where she talks where
she's quoting Joyce about time.
I think the time stuff isextremely possible.

(43:50):
I just don't want it.
And we have a reference to awrinkle in time in the.
In.
In the.
The list of episodes.
Right.
So there.
So that I think Escape from Camazot.
So, yeah.
So I think.
I think it's very possiblewe're going to be traveling through
time.

(44:11):
All right, well, that's thegood stuff with the trailer.
With the trailer with thefirst five minutes.
And we will go into the play.
We don't know how much of thisplay will be integrated into the
Season 5 plot.
There's some elements will bein there.
They have been very clear that they.
They.
The important things will be revealed.
Okay, so just some informationabout the play.

(44:35):
It premiered in London in 2023.
I found it particularly interesting.
So it's written by KateTreffery, who has written a number
of really important episodes.
But what I thought was mostinteresting about its origin is that
it's based on a story by theDuffer brothers and Jack Thorne,

(44:55):
who we are big fans of.
Yes, Jack Thorne co wrote theCursed Child, Whatever.
And he also was behind hisDark Materials, which we big fans.
One of the first show that weever covered for sure.
And Enola Holmes, which I'm abig fan of.
Have you seen those movies?
I haven't seen A NOLA Home.

(45:17):
Oh, they're good.
They're very enjoyable.
But they bring togethertogether two actors that we enjoy
watching, which is Millie,Bobby Brown, and then Henry Cavill
plays Sherlock Holmes on those.
And so I went as soon as I sawthat Jack Thorne was behind the story
with.
With the Duffers, I was like,okay, so they really did want this
to be canon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(45:38):
Because he's the guy.
He's the.
He's the adapting guy.
So I thought that was impressive.
Yeah.
And I think, you know KaytreeFry, she has been in the.
The writers room of StrangerThings in season two.
Like we talked about in theearlier part of this episode that
wasn't spoiler driven aroundthe play she wrote the Spy, with

(46:01):
which Ross Duffer has said isthe most important episode.
She also wrote the Sauna Test,also a very interesting episode.
And the Nina Project, whichwe're going to cover extensively
in the season four, episodesone through five episode.

(46:23):
And then she is the writer ofin season five, Escape from Camazotz.
So good stuff.
She's contributed a lot tothis universe.
So the play opens in the 1940swith the USS Eldridge in an experiment
that goes terribly wrong.
The ship.
Well, the experiment was thatthe US government wanted to use radiation

(46:45):
to make a ship invisible tothe Germans.
The ship disappears.
It doesn't become invisible.
It goes to another dimension.
It goes to Dimension X wherethe crew is completely overrun by
Demogorgons.
That's the cold open of this play.

(47:06):
After the cold open, we getinto Hawkins in 1959, where Henry
Creel, his father Victor, whowe've met on Stranger Things, mother
Virginia and sister Alice moveinto a house that we're very familiar
with in Hawkins after therewere strange events that happened

(47:27):
after Henry went missing intheir previous town in Nevada for
12 hours when he was 8 years old.
When he came back from.
From wherever he went forthose 12 hours.
He was changed and somethingweird happened with him where he.
A neighbor kid got hurt.
Well, actually, we don't knowif it was a kid.

(47:48):
I think.
I think it was just a neighbor.
It says, they say a neighborwas hurt.
And after that his parentswere like, we got to get out of here.
So they moved to Hawkins.
Meanwhile, at Hawkins High,Joyce Maldonado, soon to be buyers
because she's already.
Already dating Lonnie, unfortunately.

(48:11):
So Byers is her married name.
Why did she drop it?
She should have just dropped it.
It went right back to Maldonado.
Like, you know, she probablywon't have the same name as Jonathan
and.
Yeah, for sure.
But she's directing a play andshe cast Henry and Patty Newby, who
is Bob's adopted sister inthat play.

(48:34):
I'm not going to go too muchinto the play plot line, so I'm going
to leave some things.
So if you do see the play,there will be some surprises for
you.
I'm just doing like the hotsort of like the.
The most important things.
We also meet, obviously, ayoung Bob Newbie, but we also meet
a young hopper who is exactlythe same.

(48:56):
Hasn't changed at all.
Exactly the same.
They're not one.
Not one change.
Except he has moreresponsibility now.
Oh, my gosh.
So Henry and Patti really connect.
But the Mind Flayer ishaunting Henry and that because it's
haunting Henry, some reallystrange things start to happen in

(49:17):
Hawkins, including pets dying.
And this all leads to an eventwhere Patty convinces Henry to use
his powers for good and try tofind her mom.
So he just, like El, goes intothe Void when.
When somebody needs to be found.

(49:37):
Henry's going into his Voidlooking for Patty's mom because she.
She.
The first part of the play iscalled the Girl from Nowhere.
So she's got some identityissues, right?
Oh, wow.
A bunch of events cometogether and her dad rushes into
the creel house.
This is all happening in their attic.

(50:00):
To remove his daughterinterrupts whatever is going on with
Henry in the Void and isattacked by something.
And to Patty, it looks likeHenry is using his powers against
her father.
She later goes to visit him inthe hospital and he tells her, actually,

(50:26):
no, protect that boy.
Protect the boy.
Something else was attackingme and he was fighting back.
So that's when Patty realizesthat the powers are.
They're not coming from Henry,but from this other entity, which
we know to be the Mind Flayer.
And the reason we know it'sthe Mind Flayer is because the play
uses the imagery of the Mind Flayer.

(50:48):
Huh?
Like, it's the same.
The Mind Flayer looks the samein the show as.
As it does in the play.
Holy moly.
Wow.
Okay, Any questions so far?
I mean, tons, like, but keepgoing, keep going.
I'll save them.
I'll save them.
That's crazy.

(51:08):
Wow.
Okay, so after this happens,this attack where the.
Patty's father is theprincipal of the school.
And so it's like a.
Kind of a big deal in thesmall town, like Hawkins, when the
principal is blinded atsomeone's house.
And so when this happens,Virginia Creel completely freaks

(51:30):
out and she sends for Dr.Brenner and gives over her son to
Brenner.
Brenner is obsessed withDimension X and knows has been tracking
Henry ever since he wentmissing in Nevada back when he was
8.
And the reason that Brenner isobsessed with Dimension X is because

(51:53):
Brenner's father was on theUSS Eldridge, and he was the only
person to survive that whole debacle.
And when he returned, he had adifferent blood type, and he came
back as a totally different person.
When Henry came back, he had aunique blood type.

(52:15):
And I want.
I'm saying unique and not justdifferent, because that's how the
play put it.
I don't know if Brenner'sfather had a unique blood type or
if it was just different fromthe one he had.
Henry comes back with atotally different blood type.
Totally unique.
No other human has this blood type.
They've never seen it before.
Wow.
And it's very clear thatBrenner wants to use Henry to make

(52:41):
contact with Dimension X again.
And so it's Brenner whoencourages Henry, who's been fighting
the Mind Flayer this wholetime, to let the Mind Flayer in.
And after he does that, that'swhen Henry heads home and murders
his family.

(53:01):
And then he goes back to.
He goes to find Patty.
It's.
It's a little bit morecomplicated than that, but he goes
to find Patty at the school.
There's a. Brenner and Pattyboth kind of fight for the soul of
Henry Creel.
Patty is hurt in the process,and right before he finds Patti,

(53:23):
he has this exchange of Joycethat I think is really important
to point out, where he tellsJoyce that because of the terrible
things that are going tohappen, that she needs to fight for
the people she loves.
Huh.
So that explains why she'ssuch a fighter and why she knows

(53:44):
something.
Wow.
And so the play essentiallyends with them showing us that Henry
then essentially became aprisoner of Brenner and a literal,
literal prisoner.
He was like restraint in achair for a long time and not allowed
to be free until they used hisblood in some way to create 11 other

(54:12):
children.
Wow.
And so he meets 11.
He's.
He's freed and allowed to workwith the children, and that's when
he meets 11.
In that process, as that'shappening in the show closes, a bunch
of newspaper headlines flashon the screen.

(54:35):
One of them is that theHawkins lab has opened.
It's 1960 now.
Another is that they'rerecruiting pregnant women to be part
of some kind of trial.
And then one that I did notcatch, the whole one.
And I don't know why.
It's been driving me insanewhy they included it.
Yeah, it's about the quarry,and I don't know why they're talking

(54:58):
about the quarry.
Like, I don't get it.
Why that was one of the headlines.
There were probably others,too, that I missed.
You're not allowed to haveyour phone out during the play, which
is just common courtesy inevery play I've ever seen, but they
were very strict about it.
In this play in particular,anytime somebody even took out their
phone to look at the time, theushers came and told them to put

(55:20):
it away.
So I obviously didn't want torisk it.
But these notes were mostlytaken while I was sitting in the
hallway after the play.
So on my phone, oh, my gosh.
She was, like, photographingmemory, remembering, and writing
them down.
The things that we do for youall to get this content.
It's hilarious.

(55:40):
Oh, it's great.
That's amazing.
What a synopsis.
I have so many questions.
I have a bunch.
So hopefully, with me askingmy questions, some of you will get
your questions answered.
If not, please feel free tohit us up.
I am planning to see the play.
Even with all of this detail,I am going to see the play.
It's still worth that.
And I left a. I left the mostcharming parts.

(56:03):
The play is extremely charming.
You really spend a lot of timewith Joyce and Hopper, and that's
awesome.
And then there's plenty to see.
It is the production quality.
I mean, the production thatthey put up is incredible.
It's worth every penny.
I can't wait.
If you can get to New YorkCity or if you're going to be here
for a trip, definitely try tofit it in.

(56:26):
That's.
That's.
That's amazing.
So.
So first, let's start with theship disappears In Dimension X.
What is Dimension X?
And how can we think aboutthat different than the Upside Down?
Or is it even something different?
Like, is it a different place?
So I think Dimension X isdifferent from the Upside down, just

(56:49):
based on the visual cues thatwe've received in the show.
Dimension X has a more, like,yellowish hue to it.
It is where Elle initiallybanishes Henry.
She does not banish him to theUpside Down.
That's Dimension X.
And it seems like Demogorgonsare native to Dimension X.

(57:10):
Okay, okay, okay, that makes sense.
So that.
And that would be.
And that kind of plays with that.
Maybe there are they.
Is Vecna in Dimension X.
And that's a flashback when hesays that to the Demogorgon that
we're talking about in that trailer.
Wow.
Well, this.
This is a question of whatUpside down is.
Did Will create the Upside Down?

(57:32):
Is the Upside Down a separatedimension that already existed?
Where Vecna was hanging out?
Where did l touch theDemogorgon was that?
God?
Well, what day?
I know it's stuck on a date,but I can't remember.
November 6, 1983.

(57:53):
So it stuck the day that Will.
Missing, but that's also theday that Elle touched the Demogorgordon.
So both Will and Elle could have.
If.
If we believe that this Upsidedown was created by one of the characters,
it could have been either of them.
Maybe touching the Demogorgonis what created the Upside Down.

(58:15):
Maybe it was already there.
Maybe Will created it.
We don't really know.
You know my theory.
I'm gonna hold that one for asecond because I've been thinking
about it a lot.
I want to figure out how,like, verbalize it, but I think I,
I.
What I have said on the podnumerous times is I do think that
Upside down is.
Is some way connected to Will.

(58:36):
Will Byers consciousness.
I have some theories, too,that could back that up, but it's
nothing.
It's nothing from Netflix.
It's not canon.
It's.
It's Internet chatter,essentially, and in potential leaks
and, you know, the stuff thatwas coming about.

(58:57):
Out about season five monthsago, it's hard to figure out what
was official and what was leaks.
So I don't want to share it.
But at some point, I do thinkthat you.
I. I'm never gonna share thisstuff because I don't.
I think it's mostly leaks.
But I do think that yourtheory based on some of that.

(59:19):
Yeah.
Is very possible.
I can't.
I cannot rule it out.
I cannot rule out that Willcreated The upside down.
Good stuff, man.
So.
So let's think about this.
So if we're thinking aboutBrenner, he, obviously, now we know,
plays some part of a role inthe murder of the Creel family by

(59:45):
just encouraging him to letthe mind flayer.
Like, in.
What.
What do you think Brenner knewor actually understood?
Like, did he know that he wascreating that, that.
That.
That Vecna was going to becreated from.
From Henry?
Do you think that that's whathe knew?
I think he knew he wascreating a weapon.

(01:00:08):
And I, I.
This piece, I. I left out, but it.
Every time Henry kills, hegets stronger.
And Brenner tells him thatwith each kill, you get stronger,
you absorb their energy.

(01:00:30):
So I absolutely think Brennerknew what he was doing.
I think he didn't care becauseI think he thought it was in the
service of something more important.
Yeah.
Mainly like finding out whathappened to his dad.
And Henry does not have a goodrelationship with his parents at
all.
His dad loves him, but isdealing with his own demons, and

(01:00:51):
his mom is scared of him.
And once again, Brenner stepsinto that parenting role.
It's not quite the same aswith 11, but he very much has a fatherly
type relationship with Henry.
I mean, do they make Henryfeel sympathetic, like.
Or is he, like, clearly, like,okay, he's gonna become.

(01:01:13):
Oh, so they do.
They make.
He's our main character.
And you love him.
I love him.
I think, you know, like, theHenry that existed before the mind.
So this is the Henry thatexisted even after he goes into Dimension
x when he's 8 years old.
This is, like, 16 year old Henry.
Wow.
Actually, he might be a littleyounger than that.

(01:01:35):
I get the impression thatJoyce and Hopper are supposed to
be, like, maybe seniors inhigh school, but maybe Henry and
Patty are freshmen or sophomores.
But let's.
Let's say he's 15, 16 years old.
He is a sweetheart.
And he wants to.
He really wants to use hispowers for good.
He really does.
He knows he has them, but hecan't control them.

(01:01:58):
So I guess my.
The other question I have thenis if these folks were around, if
Hopper and Joyce were aroundwhen all this was happening, and
Patty, why are they.
They don't seem like there's.
They feel very surprised byeverything that's happening with
Will.
They have to have heardsomething about all the things that

(01:02:20):
happened to Victor and HenryKrill and all.
Why are they so surprised inthe beginning when Will goes missing
and everything's going on?
They have Completely nonsupernatural reasons for thinking
everything that happens happened.
They think Victor did it all.
Victor killed the animals.

(01:02:41):
Victor attacked the principal,Victor, because they.
Threw Victor because of whatwe understand inside season four,
where Victor ends up, it's allpinned on Victor the way, the way
that it is that he was like asick person.
Okay, got it.
Huh.
So.
So they, it's the way thatthey set up the play is that the

(01:03:10):
Joyce, Bob and Hopper kind ofact like Steve, Nancy and Jonathan
or Steve, Robin, Nancy.
Like, they kind of, they kindof take on the role of the older
team.
So they're on like a Mr. Like,they're on Scooby Doo.
And this is a Scooby Doo.
Okay, Scooby Doo mission.
Yes.
So they're trying to figureout what's going on in Hawkins with

(01:03:32):
the animals and trying tofigure out how they can help, you
know, like, like Hopper wantsthe reward so he can get out of town
because he's miserable.
Joyce, I think, just wants tofigure out what's going on.
But even then they really careabout the, the town and like, making

(01:03:53):
sure people are safe.
But they think that this islike a regular Scooby Doo, like there's
going to be a human.
They're not thinking aboutsupernatural elements.
Yeah, they're not thinking.
Okay, got you, got you.
So.
So, so you mentionedsupernatural elements, and I'm thinking
about scientific elements thatactually have super that cause the

(01:04:17):
supernatural.
Like, what is it about theblood and the powers?
Like, how did, how doesHenry's DNA somehow create these
other kids?
Do they explain at all, like,why his blood is super, is so powerful?
I've struggled with this one a lot.
It makes sense in one regardthat the kids were, you know, transfused

(01:04:42):
with his blood or whatever,because some, because they all have
elements of his powers, butnot all his powers.
So, like.
L can't make people seethings, but Kali can.
Huh.
So that kind of makes sense tome that, that if, if he genetically
is almost like a parent, you,you might get some traits of your

(01:05:03):
parent, but you're not goingto get them all.
Everything.
Yeah, exactly.
The thing that bugs me that Ihaven't been able to square.
They don't explain in the playhow the blood is used.
The thing that bugs me that Ihaven't been able to square is that
Terry has powers.
Hmm.
So my thought is that they,these kids were normal embryos and

(01:05:29):
they recruited pregnant womenand they use.
And so maybe Terry absorbedsome of the DNA too.
They're saying, yeah, butwhat, but how Would as a fully grown
adult, like just having.
Like that they.
So, yeah, it doesn't mean I don't.

(01:05:50):
I don't love it.
But Terry clearly has somelatent powers because she's able
to manipulate me.
And so, like, I don't.
I can't explain that piece.
I guess.
Well, maybe we'll.
Oh, maybe we'll find out moreabout Terry.
I don't know.
That's.
I doubt we'll find out moreabout Terry, but we might find out

(01:06:13):
how they use the blood,because I think that will be important.
All we see is them takingblood from Henry, but we don't see
what happens.
All we know is that that shipgoes to Dimension X and that the
Demogorgons are in Dimension X.
So I think the most logicalthing is that that's their natural

(01:06:34):
habitat.
Because even in the show, whenl banishes him to Dimension X, it
looks just like Dimension X,the same coloring.
There's Demogorgons walking around.
So I think we have to assumethe Mind Flayer and the Demogorgons
are from Dimension X and thatHenry is the one who pulled everything
into the Upside down or other theories.

(01:06:59):
Al created the Upside Down.
Will created the Upside Down.
Who knows?
But it's a.
It's a new dimension.
And I guess, you know, I'mthinking about, as you were talking
about it, why I said, huh.
I'm just like sitting here is.
I'm like, we've gone with thiswhole thing about the Upside Down.

(01:07:20):
They've called it the Upside Down.
They, like Elle explains tothem by flipping the board over in
the first season that it's aparallel dimension.
I wonder where she gets thatknowledge of the parallel dimension.
Right?
How does she know that there'sa parallel dimension that's right
underneath it?
That's exactly the same.

(01:07:41):
Good question.
How does she know who Will is?
How does she know who Will is?
All.
All these things better be answered.
I need answers.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because some.
A lot of this is like, oh, Ithink they didn't.
Some of this is like, I don'tthink that they had anticipated where
this.
Exactly where the story wasgoing to go.

(01:08:02):
So there's like a few thingsthat they may not be prepared to
answer, but this is not one ofthem that I feel like you can really
leave hanging.
Like Elle has.
Is suspiciously well informedabout the Upside Down.
So maybe what we'll find outis that the Upside down was there
for ages and they knew it andshe had explored it looking for the

(01:08:26):
Demo.
Like we might get moreinformation like that.
I just don't.
The.
Is there.
The play has no upside down in it.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Is there any chance, based onthe play, based on what we're talking

(01:08:46):
about here, is there anychance that Will was also a product
of the blood, like, from HenryKrill, but not in the lab.
Is there any chance Joyceknowing Henry.
No.
Is there any chance like that.
That's a possibility that.

(01:09:06):
Okay, all right.
Not based on the informationwe have in the play, because they
show us all the kids, and noneof them are.
And none of them, like Henryand her aren't hooking up.
There's no.
Okay, cool.
No.
And Joyce and Henry are notfriends, okay?
They're.
You know, Joyce is thedirector of the play.
She's not mean to him, butthey're not.
I wouldn't call them friendslike her.

(01:09:27):
Her friend group is Hopper andBob and then Lonnie.
But.
But the cool thing with playis all the parents are in the play.
Bob is her friend in high school.
I thought they didn't.
He.
She didn't even know her.
His name.
Bob is also in love with her already.
It's like, Right.
So that's weird.
It's a whole thing.

(01:09:47):
How is that.
That's strange because he waslike, you wouldn't even know my name
in high school.
And now look at me.
I'm just.
Okay, all right.
All right.
Anyway, that's definitely a retcon.
But, yeah, her and Bob are friendly.
He's definitely in love with Joyce.
So.
So is Hopper, but she's withLonnie, and the Wheelers are in the

(01:10:11):
play.
Ted is a jock.
Attract.
The Henderson.
Well, Dustin's mom is in the play.
I. I think her.
His dad is too.
The.
At least one of the Sinclairsis there, and then there's a Monson
as well.

(01:10:31):
So the.
The parents are well represented.
Everyone's represented fromevery single.
Every single faction, everysingle tribe.
Well done.
Well, that's.
I don't remember hearingHarrington, but.
But it's possible there's aHarrington, and I just missed it.
There's a lot of.
There's a lot of teenagersthat they introduced to us.
Well, thank you.
Thank you for answering someof these questions.

(01:10:54):
It's piquing my interest evenmore, and it's given me a little
bit more, you know, filled in.
If you haven't seen the play,as Andrew said, it is playing on.
In Manhattan on Broadway.
So I would go check it out,and I'm going to.
And that will, you know, justwant to do a little episode, just
kind of give you some insights.

(01:11:14):
You know, Andrea was tellingme about different things about the
play.
And this is some of this Iheard for the first time as we're
podcasting this, most of this,like, so I'm, like, pretty excited
that to hear about it.
And yeah, that is our episodefor today, the trailer episode.
Stay tuned for all of ourcoverage of things that everyone

(01:11:35):
has seen, which is, well, ifyou haven't seen them, you won't
be listening to the episodes,but seasons one through four as we
get ready for season five.
And we we will see you next time.
Bye, everyone.