October 28, 2025 • 56 mins
Welcome back to Kinfolklore, where Andrea and Paul dive deep into the fantasy and sci-fi worlds we love. Few shows capture that blend of nostalgia, terror, and friendship quite like Stranger Things.
This episode, we’re rewinding all the way back to Hawkins, Indiana, Fall 1983. The era of Eggos, Dungeons & Dragons, and the Demogorgon lurking just beyond the lights. In preparation for the final season dropping this November, Andrea and Paul are rewatching every episode from the very beginning, starting here with Season 1, Chapters 1–4: “The Vanishing of Will Byers,” “The Weirdo on Maple Street,” “Holly, Jolly,” and “The Body.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Welcome back to Kin Folklore.This season we're traveling all the
way back to the fall of 1983in Hawkins, Indiana. The food. Echoes.
Yum.
The hangout. Mike's Basement.
Musty.
That's right. We're startingat the very beginning of Stranger
(00:32):
Things, where a missing boyand a mysterious girl and a town
full of secrets set off anunforgettable story. I'm Andrea.
And I'm Paul. And for those ofyou who are new here, we're cousins
who dive into fantasy and scifi worlds we love. And few shows
capture our hearts and thecollective anxiety. Quite like Stranger
(00:57):
Things. These early episodesintroduce us to the party, the town
of Hawkins, and of course, theDemogorgons lurking in the shadows.
In order to prepare for thefinal season coming out this November,
we're rewatching the entireseries from the very beginning. Today,
we'll be covering season one,chapters one through four. So if
(01:19):
you haven't seen up to chapterfour, hit pause, binge, then come
right back. And spoilerwarning. This podcast is not spoiler
free. We'll be discussing allfour seasons of Stranger Things.
One small caveat is we willnot be talking about Stranger Things
the first shadow, which we'lldo a separate mini episode on, because
(01:44):
not everyone has access to theplay. Everyone has net. Well, if
you're listening to this, youhave Netflix, so you can watch all
the seasons, but the play isonly available in New York, so we
won't spoil that.
I really want to see the play.I'm excited about it.
It's really good.
Says the person who's seen ittwice. I love it. I love it.
No, I only saw it once. I onlysaw once.
Okay, all right, all right.
I have tickets to see itagain. Plan on seeing it twice. I've
(02:09):
only seen it once.
I may have to crash thatparty. But you know what? Kinfolklore
will also have adult content,thanks to Steve Harrington's party
of five and his binge drinkinghijinks, Nancy's peer pressuring
to do bodily harm to herself,and of course, Jonathan Byers being
an unpaid paparazzi of one,there will be.
(02:32):
Why?
Why are these children havingsex anyway? There will be adult content.
Let's go.
Terrible, terrible, terrible.So in each episode, we're going to
summarize the chapters thatwe're covering. So I'm going to talk
about the first two chapters.The Vanishing of Will Byers and the
(02:54):
Weirdo on Maple Street. Weopen in Hawkins Lab, where something
escapes into the night in athe flickering light of Mike Wheeler's
basement. Four boys huddlearound the table, dice in hand. Suspended
in a world far away fromHawkins, Mike, the dungeon master,
(03:16):
spins a tale of danger. Theparty is in a deep, shadowy cave,
stopped by a monster beyondthe imagining. The Demogorgon. And
we'll talk more about that Dand D game, which I think may have
had a little foreshadowing init for sure. By morning, one of that
party, Will Byers, hasvanished after a really scary encounter.
(03:40):
On his way home from Mike'shouse, his mother, Joyce, Frank,
Dick, the police chief Hopper.Well, let's just say he's not on
top of things.
No, not in the least bit.
Not on top of things at all.And Will's friends decide to search
for themselves, only todiscover a young girl, 11. The hero
(04:05):
of our story. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe. Meanwhile, Joycerefuses to give up. In despair, she
strings up some Christmaslights. Because that's totally normal,
totally rational. All over herhouse. It's Christmas. You know,
it's only a month early. Youknow, this is just November. It's
(04:27):
Okay.
Listen. Never too early to befestive. Some people are putting
out, you know, she was aheadof the curve when it came. She works
in a store, so she's alreadythinking about decoration.
I know, she. Exactly. She'strying to get everyone in the mood
for the holiday season, Right?It's nothing strange about it.
Nothing strange.
At the same time, Nancy,Mike's sister, she's going through
(04:52):
some teenage things. Goingthrough some teenage things. She
has a boyfriend, maybe, right?A situationship.
I don't know, what.
With the hottest guy inschool, Steve Harrington.
The best. Here.
He invites her over to a partyat his house. She lies to everybody.
Like she tells her mom she'sgoing to study.
(05:16):
It's a party. Sans party.There is no party. There's four other
people. There's no party.
That's. That's true. Therereally is. There really aren't. There's
only four of them. @ the endof that party, Nancy's friend Barb,
who she bullied to be there.
Yeah.
Disappears.
Oh, Barb.
Which draws Nancy deeper intothe mystery.
(05:40):
So let's talk about chaptersthree and chapters four. Holly, Jolly
and the body. Joyce has turnedher entire house into a glowing web
of Christmas lights. She'sunraveling before our very eyes,
creating some sort of code totalk with Will. She can hear him,
you know. She's heard hisvoice through the phone. She's communicating
(06:03):
somehow, intuitively knowsthat Christmas.
He's busted up. Two. Twophones have been Busted up two phones.
She's like. She's takingadvances out at her job. She is.
It's hilarious. So she'sunraveling when the wall itself bulges
out. She knows that he'salive, but trapped somewhere dark
(06:24):
and dangerous. So there's amonster break trying to break through.
And Joyce's insistence thatthe supernatural stops sounding like
grief and starts sounding likethe truth at the same time. Elle,
our, you know, friend that wefound, Elle, is giving me ET Vibes
during this season. I'm justgonna be honest. Like, they found
(06:44):
her and they're, like, tryingto, like. It feels very ET But Elle
grows closer to the boys,proving her powers by tapping into
a school radio and findingWill's voice singing from the other
side.
Do I say or do I go?
I love it. We'll talk moreabout that song, too. Lucas doesn't
trust her. Lucas is not. He'snot trusting l. At all. But Mike
(07:08):
is smitten. He's all in.
He's. Oh, he's all.
He's all in. He's all about.
That's his girl.
All about.
He just decided. He took onelook at Elle, actually. I think it
was really when she closed thedoor for power.
Yeah.
Then he was like, oh, I like apowerful woman.
Like, superpowers. Let's go.I'm in. So Hopper, suspicious, and
(07:29):
his suspicions are starting togrow too. He's starting to think
something weird is going on,especially after they pull a body
that's supposed to be Will'sfrom a quarry. So he's like, wait.
He says, let me just look alittle deeper, see what's happening.
Only to discover that thecorpse that was made of Will, for
(07:51):
some reason, he just knows,cut this body open, and it has cotton.
I was, like, the mosthorrified. I was like, what are we
doing? Yeah, why are we.Hopper, why are we cutting. Why are
we cutting the bodies of smallchildren open?
Because he's unhinged.
It worked out for him, right?It worked out.
But he's unhinged. He'sunhinged. Unbelievable. You know,
like. And this time, he findsout that maybe. Maybe Joyce is right.
(08:16):
Because the body's full ofcotton, and there's a cover up, and
it's real. And Hawkins lab isat the center of this cover up.
Yeah. So at the end of this.This block of episodes, we. We lost
quite a few people. That's.That's standard for this show.
We lost a few people. Butlet's start off with the guy who
(08:36):
we lose right away. Unnamedlab Tech. Right away. He's hitting
the button. He's clicking on it.
I mean, technically.Technically, we don't see him die
in this episode. I'm. He couldstill be out there. He could still
be out there. I don't think heis, but he could technically still
(08:56):
be out there.
And then I'm gonna say one ofthe shortest lived characters. But
honestly, a kind soul. He'shad a heart of gold. Benny Hammond.
Friend of the show, Friend ofHopper. Yeah. He was the proprietor
of Benny's Burgers, and sorest in peace, Benny. And. And last
(09:18):
but not least, she's missingright now. We don't know whether
she's truly gone.
I said this was not a spoilerfree podcast. Let's just call it
Barb is Dead.
She's dead.
Golly, Barb is gone. Okay, Iknow we don't technically confirm
(09:39):
that Barb is gone. So.
As is a kin folkloretraditional. Take a minute. Pour
one out for the unnamed labtech, Betty Hammond and Barbara Holland.
This goes out to all ourfallen homies. Yo, Liquor.
(10:04):
Don't let the kid get likethat, y'. All. We're not right. He
may have had a name in the script.
I just.
I'm not looking it up.
Running from a Demogorgonnever works out. It just never seems
to work out. Oh, my God. Solet's. Let's talk about some noteworthy
things. Let's start withchapter one. So what do you think
about this DND game? You saidyou want to talk about the D and
(10:25):
D game. Let's talk.
All right. All right. Here'swhere I put on my tinfoil hat. I
may actually make a tinfoilhat for the podcast.
At the end of this, we bothmay need one.
So. All right. We have this.This DND campaign that they're doing
for 10 hours, which I'm justlike, I don't know, is that cool
that they were there for 10? Iguess kids today probably spend 10
(10:48):
hours scrolling through, youknow, tick Tock or, like, playing
video games. So it's probablyfine. It's probably fine. So they
have this game, and Will hasto. It's all up to Will's actions.
He has to roll a 13 or higher.And what I think is most interesting
(11:09):
about this game, if you listento the dialogue, we have them telling
him what to do. CastProtection or Fireball the Demogorgon.
Right. I think it's Lucas whowants him to cast protection, and
Dustin who wants him to useFireball. He chooses Fireball, but
(11:34):
he rolls a seven. But Mikenever Sees that and they decide that
Mike runs upstairs to see hismom because she's being a mom. Like,
she's like, y' all been downthere so long.
Time to do something. What thehell is going on?
Like, what are we doing here?Why are we. Why are we doing this?
So he actually thinks that,you know, like they have a discussion
(11:56):
about whether or not it countsbecause he wasn't there to see that
it was a seven. But Willloses, right? And he. He comes clean
to Mike and he says, theDemogorgon got me foreshadowing for
sure. I mean, so that piece isforeshadowing. But I just want to
put a pin in the fireball orcast protection too. Because a lot
(12:21):
of the lead up to season threein the fan community is. Does Will
have latent powers? Is what'sgoing on with Will. Will has been
connected to the magic in thisstory from the very first episode.
So I'm wondering what wastelegraphed in this D and D campaign
that might happen. Can. Canwill protect. And it might be metaphorical,
(12:45):
can will protect or can willdestroy Vecna, who I guess is their
big bad now. So just want toput that out there.
It's a good. It's a good catch.
I mean.
Yeah, it's a good catch. I'm.What I'm wondering too. I'm wondering
too, because he starts. Westart inching towards something happening
(13:08):
with Will near. I mean,something's always happening with
Will, but like, powers wise,it's feeling like. Like there could
be something happening in the.In the last season that we've seen
so far. Maybe, maybe in thisupcoming season we get Will's powers.
If we haven't seen hints of it already.
Will already has some powers,right? We know from season two and
(13:31):
three that he can. And four,frankly, he can kind of detect. Yeah,
when fair the Mind Flayerslash Vecna sl. Like, I think all
of that still seems to be.Need to be sorted out. But he. He
does. You know the thing wherehe rubs the back of his neck. He
can feel. He can sense thatthe veil between the worlds is coming
(13:54):
down. So that is a power. Butis that it? Is there more to it?
I have questions and we'll.We'll talk more about some of my
questions from the first.These first four episodes.
Well, he does have one powerthat nobody's ever quite explained.
And maybe it's because like inthe Upside down, just like when you
go away, like you get onephone call. You know what I mean?
(14:17):
Like, how. How does how doeshe call Joyce? Like, is there a payphone
in the Upside Down? Do you getone phone call before you get sentenced
to Demogorgon purgatory? Like,what is happening? We never really
established what's happening.How does Joyce get the phone call?
So do we want to.
I want to. Yes.
So I keep. Should I keep my.My tinfoil hat?
(14:39):
Well, very present. Let's go.
Okay. I got questions then.All right. So how is he making phone
calls from the Upside Down?
No clue. But.
But my first question comesbefore that. When Will runs into
his house to get away,something unlocks the door from.
From the inside. Like thelittle chain lock slides, Right.
(15:04):
As far as we know, Demogorgonscan't move things with their minds.
So who did that?
L does else.
I think we have to beg thequestion. Was L present at the buyer's
residence when Will wentmissing? I think we have to ask that
question. It is anuncomfortable question for me because
(15:25):
I have questions about whatthat might mean for L. But was L
there? Because the only personwe're aware of who can move things
with their mind. I mean, Vecnacan. Right? So maybe Vecna was there.
Maybe. The story they willtell us is that Vecna was always
there, always present, alwaysfacilitating this. But other than
(15:47):
Vecna, Ella is the onlycandidate. And the reason, I think
it's especially interesting,and I'd love. I'd love to hear the
story of what happened thatnight. And I think we will, because
I've seen some. Some stillshots from. From season five, and
it's clear that they areflashing back. And there's also that
(16:07):
line from the teaser whereJoyce says to Will, I think about
that night. So I think we'llget some of these answers. But who
unlocked the door? Who openedthe portal?
Yeah, I think it because.Because how does Will get into the
Upside down unless El openedthe portal, and maybe it was to fight
the demog. Maybe it was to dosomething else.
(16:30):
Maybe she was tracking it.
But, like, it doesn't makesense. The. The opening of the door,
Will getting to the Upsidedown, like, on his own, and then
her identifying him, like inthe picture, without us ever seeing
her cross paths with him. Soshe obviously saw Will before they
met her. You know what I mean?Like, so.
(16:52):
Right. Because I don't think Ihave a theory. And this. We can talk
more about this when we. Wecover the back end of the season,
but we never quite get anexplanation for how Elle got out
of the lab fully either. AndI've always wondered, did l leave
the lab through the Upsidedown and then end up at Will's house
(17:15):
somehow? So I think there'ssome unanswered questions. I mean,
some of this is going to beflatly false. You know, we're just
speculating. But some of it, Ithink these are questions that I
think we still have to answer.And I think it's crazy that we're
almost 10 years into the showand we don't have answers.
Mortgages, they've gottenmarried, they're doing rock albums.
They, like, got everythinggoing on. It's kind of crazy.
(17:38):
She just, yeah, she just had ababy. So I, I, it's crazy how long
this show has been on. I stilllove it. But this is, you know, these
are questions we've had for,like, you know what?
We don't question that Ellehas, in this show, met her one true
love. She is, she is. She is.Echoes all about those, those Eggos.
If she had to choose betweenMike and an Eggo, what do you think
(18:02):
she would do?
I think it's Eggos hands down.
I mean, if I have to choosebetween Mike.
Yeah. And an Eggo, Eggos havebeen the source of comfort. I'm just
saying she, listen, she has,she's hurt some people on behalf
of Mike, but she has, likegone on whole crime sprees over Eggos.
(18:23):
She has taken stores down.She's gone to like, she's gone on
missions with like her longlost sister and stole Eggos. She
is about the Eggos. She isdefinitely. She doesn't even steal
money. She cares less aboutmoney than she cares about Eggos.
Eggos have more value.
Yeah. 100 think if it'sbetween Mike and Eggos. Eggos. When
(18:47):
if someone came to Ellen waslike, you can never have another
Eggo again.
If.
Or you can never see Mikeagain. I think that's an easy trade
for her. That said, I knowpeople are going to get into my DMs
talking about Mike. I don'tcare. Okay. Right. I don't like Mike.
(19:08):
After season four, I don'tcare for Mike.
Break that down, please.
I stand on business aboutMike. I like the Wheeler family.
Overall. I, I will ride for,for Mrs. Wheeler and for Nancy. Mike
gets on my nerves.
He gets on everybody.
We all get to dislike at leastone kid, right?
(19:30):
Mike is, Mike could beannoying. No question about it. He's
definitely annoyed.
He's, I will say this in myrewatch. So I left the end of season
four really being angry atMike. I just felt like in season
four, he was so harsh oneverybody on L. A little bit on Will.
(19:51):
Like, he just. He just reallyannoyed me on my re. Watch. Mike
is a ride or die. So eventhough he gets on my nerves, I'm
pretty sure he's gonna redeemhimself because he's just a. The
kid is just. He. He learnedWill was missing. Right. So in the
back to the. If we circle thisback to the first episode, he learns
Will is missing, and herefuses to just sit there. Right?
(20:15):
Yeah. 100 he refuse.
He has to take action. Then hefinds this girl who can. He believes
can help him find Will. Andit's like love at first sight. Ride
or die. Mike is. Mike andNancy both are like. They're. They're
your day ones. Those. You wantthem in your corner, which is more
(20:37):
than we can say for Lucas.
Oh, damn. Look. They have allof the stick to itiveness, resilience,
and major focus that their dadlacks. And their mom. Their mom longs
for.
I knew Ted was going to catchastray. I knew that Ted Wheeler was
(20:58):
going to catch astray.
Yo. Ted Wheeler is lacking onmany, many levels, as we will get
into throughout the show. Butlet's see, maybe he redee herself
later too. So let's talk aboutElle in Nancy's room. As she's in
the room, she's. You can seethat there's something that's not
familiar about it. Right. Butthere's a part of her that longs
(21:20):
for normal girlhood. Like, shenormally. She wants to be like, you
know, she wants to feel whatthat feels like. And it's the beginning.
It's like the entry level.It's like the entry point to El's
search for her identity.
Yeah. So the. Like this first.The first two episodes really do
(21:41):
such a good job ofestablishing our characters and telling
us sort of what their arc willbe. And I was really struck in the
rewatch that that Findingidentity piece that's El is still
doing that in season four. Shestill. The lab took so much away
(22:04):
from her. She never. She nevergot to know her. Her mother. We don't
know who else dad is to thisday and maybe never will.
Papa. I'm sorry. I couldn'thelp it.
I cannot stand that man.
Oh, I hate him. I so hate him.
I cannot stand him. I see himand my back is up immediately.
(22:26):
Oh, it's terrible.
I want to fight him. I'm. I'mvery protective over Elle, even though
I'm. I'm not always sure thatElle is Not a villain, but I'm very
protective over my girl. But Ijust want to back to Elle's identity.
Like it's. It's one of this isa thing her that tie her and Will
together. Right. They bothhave this in between worlds. Not
(22:50):
really sure where they fit in.Seeking self arc. Right. And I think
that they're both still goingthrough it. Like in I. I found season
four really frustratingbecause Will is going through it
in a lot of ways that botheredme. But I think they're intentionally
(23:11):
setting up an arc there. Andwhen we get to that season, we'll
talk more about it. But it. Iwas just struck because I, you know,
I'm watching the whole thingtogether. Right. I was just struck
and by how consistent thesethemes and these character themes
and characterizations of themstuck with them. This is who Ellen
(23:31):
Will are. They're both alwaysgrasping for something. And we will
talk about the. The songShould I Stay or Should I Go a little
bit later? But like that. Thatseems to apply to both of them constantly.
Like, do they belong inHawkins? Do they belong with this
(23:54):
group of friends? Like, youknow, and for different reasons,
but for both of them, it's notby choice. They don't choose to be
in. In an in between space.They don't choose to be outsiders.
They both really want to benormal, to fit in, to find community.
And like, I think that'swhat's so interesting is like Will
(24:14):
has an established communityin this event, pulls him out of that
community and puts her in acommunity for the first time. And
then they both kind ofstruggle to figure out where they
fit. Do they fit? So it's likea beautiful story in that way.
I know we have some otherthings we want to cover first, but
I really like talking aboutthat. And since we're here, we should
(24:36):
talk about the song. So thesong is by the Clash. This version
of it is by the Clash. And Ithink, you know, music on my rewatch,
you and I were talking aboutit, you know, offline is I think
like, music really plays a keyrole in this series in general. I
think we noticed it withrunning up that. Running up the hill.
(24:58):
But going back and watchingyou start realizing that this is.
This is like an important partof. Of the whole entire thread of
what's going on. Yeah. I thinka hint that music kind of tethers
us to memory in the connectionis. And also love. There's some love
(25:20):
there. It helps the charactersstay anchored in their world. Like
every time it's likesomething's happening. We see that
or something that's importantin the narrative, even up to moments
in season four, you see wheremusic comes into play. What do you
think they're trying to showus with this? Or how do you think
that this is gonna play outlong term?
(25:40):
First of all, I love it. Ilove that, like. I mean, Lucas, I
think, is the one who comes upwith this idea when it comes to Max
later, but he kind of spellsit out for us, which is that, like,
music reaches parts of ourbrain that, like, are different from
(26:01):
our vision, from, you know,other arts, like visual arts. And
so I think that. I think thatit's really beautiful that we get
to see the origin of wherethis stor. This song bonds Will to
Jonathan, a character who wehaven't really talked much about
(26:24):
so far, but is one of the mostimportant characters in the series.
Right.
Truly.
But like, that brotherly bondthey have. The. The music was used
to cover up a trauma thatJonathan knew that Will was experiencing.
He played it for him whentheir parents were fighting, which
(26:47):
doesn't actually seem thatlong. Right. I was struck by. I had
the sense that Joyce andLonnie had been separated for ages,
but actually, when. When yousee that flashback, Jonathan and
Will don't look that muchyounger than they are when the show
starts.
Right.
So they haven't been separatedthat long. And so I think. And this
(27:08):
song came out in a yearbefore. Right. So it's not. Obviously
it's. It's pretty close. Ijust think that that connective using
music is sort of the. It's thething that binds you and keeps you
tethered to your world. And Ithink in this story, your world is
not just the dimension you'rein. Right. This is a story where
there are multiple dimensions.I think there four dimensions total.
(27:33):
But we, at least in seasonone, know about two. Right. I. I
think that it's not just aboutbeing tethered to your dimension.
It's about being in. In thatcommunity that we were talking about
earlier. Like, Will doesn'tjust have Mike and Lucas and Dustin.
(27:53):
He also has his mother, whois. Is like one of the bravest characters
in the series and never givesup on him and his brother, who would
do anything for him. I worryabout Jonathan more than any other
character because I do thinkthat if it comes down to it, Jonathan
would literally give up hislife for his brother. And so that
(28:14):
music kind of ties it alltogether, and it's what keeps Will
alive in the Upside Down. Willis in the Upside Down. For a week.
Yeah. I mean, his mom. It'sproof to his mom that he's still
alive when she hears itthrough the walls. When. Like, when.
Like when that's happening,when. When Joyce hears that song
bleeding through the walls,she knows, okay, my son's still here.
(28:36):
Something. It's like a symbolof hope, the song. And then it's
also. It's also like Will'sphysically singing in the Upside
down, right, as Eleven'slooking for him, which lets you know,
it's like a lifeline, and it'sa symbol of, like, his own resilience,
and it's his tie to it. It'skind of one of those things, though,
(28:59):
that when I keep seeing musiclike this and I keep seeing how,
you know, music is a part of,like, even in this first season,
it made me start questioning,okay, how much of what's happening
Upside down and what we'veestablished earlier, that maybe Elle
was in the house and maybe sheopened the portal while Will was
(29:20):
there. How much of that istied to, like, the Upside down and
this connection to music, theUpside down itself tied to Will's
consciousness. Like, how muchis it, like, tied to who he is? Because
some of these songs keepcoming up based on songs that he
has a memory to. And I thinkthat's an interesting thing that
we'll dissect, I think, overtime of covering this show. But it
(29:41):
just struck me in. In thisfirst season very strongly that this
could be. That there could besome tie there.
Yeah. I mean, going back toour earlier question, how did Will
end up in the Upside down tobegin with? We have to ask that question
because it happens. Ithappens, like, almost instantly.
That's how it's played oncamera. Right. There's a surge. Will
(30:02):
is in the shed. He's scared.There's a surge of. Of energy because
the light bulb gets very, verybright. And when the light bulb gets
back to its normal voltage orwhatever, then Will is gone. So I
think we. I think we have toexplore those ideas, that the Upside
down is. Is somehow tied toWill's consciousness. But I'll say
(30:25):
this. The. The music goesbeyond the Upside down because I
actually don't think that Maxis in the Upside down when she's
running away from Vecna. Ithink. I think we're supposed to
understand that she's in someversion of Vecna's mind and the music
is able to reach her thenthere. So I like what they've done
(30:52):
with. With this theme, and Ilike that it Came back. Right. Like,
I. When I went back andwatched season one, I was shocked.
I had forgotten about this,this song. Totally forgotten about
it. And I think for a lot ofus, in part because the show has
taken so long, the story'staken so long to tell, but also in
part because we weren'texperiencing the show as this, like,
(31:14):
kind of layered thing. Andbecause when they wrote season one,
it wasn't supposed to be amulti season show. It was supposed
to be an anthology season. Soit would have been like, we're introduced,
you know, like American HorrorStory. We're introduced to some elements
of magic that would haveappeared probably elsewhere outside
of Hawkins. But I like thatthey, they tied it all back together
(31:36):
because it's beautiful. Ithink, I absolutely think that, like,
music is a thing that triggersour memories and keeps us connected.
And I, I think we all havethese experiences where a song that
we haven't heard in yearscomes on. We remember every single
word, but we also remember themoments that our brain has tied to
that song. So it could be yourfirst dance. It could be, you know,
(32:01):
an experience that you hadwith your parents. It could be a
lot of different things, butit brings that connection. So I really
liked it.
Yeah, I often say that aboutmusic. Like, you know, no secret,
we made, like parody songs.Everything else that I make music,
and.
If you're new to the pod, youshould go back in the feed and listen
to the parody songs.
(32:22):
It's one of my favorite thingsto do on the pod.
Right. Especially even if youhaven't seen House of the Dragon,
there's a very good parodysong in one of those episodes. Just,
just spoil the episode. Spoilthe show for yourself.
Just do it. Just go, just go,go, go check it out. But I, I bring
it up, the making of music isbecause I often say this when I'm
(32:43):
talking to other artists, isthat that music is about experience
and music is about, like,people ever say, oh, I want people
to stream it, or I'm gonnashare it on social media. The better
way for people. I mean, socialmedia has become a real mechanism
for this, obviously. But it'slike more interesting to me when,
like the songs playing in acoffee shop or the songs playing
(33:06):
at a mall or the songs playingat a barbecue, or the songs playing.
And it just keeps showing upin different places. You start thinking
to yourself, oh, I've heardthis song a bunch of times. I'm gonna
go check out who that artistis. And that's why apps like Shazam
and all these things exist.And I think the reason I bring up
in that context is that aswe're digging into the nostalgia
(33:27):
of Stranger Things, you cannotignore how pop music, rock music,
all these different genres areembedded in even, like, the punk
rock season. Like, we'll getto, like, vibe in season two, how
all of that is kind of like acallback to a time that of discovery
(33:48):
for each of us that have grownup in those eras. Like, we're thinking
about how we discovered thosethings for the first time. Maybe
it's new for people who aredisability, but I think that happens
every generation. That musichelps you discover more about yourself,
more about your world, moreabout your friends. And you hold
on. Like you said, you hold onto those memories forever. So I think,
(34:09):
like, yeah, more to come onthat. But I think this is going to
be a running theme throughoutthe show.
Yeah.
What do you think of Hollywalking towards the light? What.
What is. What is that? Let's.Let's cover that a little bit. It
feels important.
You're just gonna. We don'tknow why the tinfoil hat the whole
episode? Because this isanother one of Andrea's crackpot
theories.
(34:30):
I like it. I like it, though.Let's go. Let's. Listen. You say
you're gonna tie, like, getone and just fit.
Yeah, I think I have to makeone now before we record the next
episode. Okay. So I'm gonna becompletely transparent. There's been
a lot of chatter on theStranger Things interwebs about Holly
(34:50):
Wheeler. I'm not gonna saywhy, because the creators of the
show have gone out of theirway to redact some of the stuff that.
Some of it was fan theory.Some of it was maybe leaked. And
we. We're not gonna shareleaked stuff here. If it's in the
trailer, if it's in thispromotional stills, it's all fair
game. But if it's not, we'renot going to share that kind of stuff
(35:13):
here. We don't want those kindof spoilers. But I've been thinking
more about Holly's characterin part because we do know from some
of the stills that we've seenthat Holly plays a role in this season,
and she's been very minor inthe rest of the show. And so I've
been paying close attention toher because I'm like, what possibly
could they have Holly doing inseason five? Right. Like, she's only
(35:38):
had a few moments. Well, I wasstruck in episode three, or chapter
three, rather, that Hollynotices something about the lights
right away. The lights arecalling To Holly when her mother
and Joyce are in the otherroom. And I have questions about
this. There's another Hollymoment that I have questions about
(36:00):
that is in a later season, andwe'll talk about when we get there.
But it feels important thatshe was walking towards the lights,
that maybe Will was trying tocommunicate with her. That could
be a Will thing. Like, Will.Will figured. You know, I know Holly.
I've known her since she wasborn. Probably him and Mike have
(36:21):
always been friends, but itcould mean something else. Like,
maybe Holly is special, maybebecause she's younger, and younger
children do tend to have moreopen minds, and so maybe she's able
to interact with magic alittle bit because she still. She
doesn't have the skepticismthat an adult would.
(36:43):
Look, this is a time where wejust pause and say, people, we are
Jamaican. And in the Jamaicanculture, you truly believe when a
baby cross over into this partof life, that they can still see
duppy. All right? And Duppyare ghosts, all right? They can still
see the Duppy, the dumpingthem floating around their head.
This is what's happening. Wow.
Okay.
That's what Andrew is saying.
(37:03):
I almost. Please don't do thatwhile I'm drinking my tea. That spit
out tea on the podcast. Thatwould have been very inappropriate.
But, yeah, like, in a lot ofcultures, children are considered
to be more sensitive to thesupernatural. I mean, the 80s tells
us that with so many movies.So many movies in the 80s are about
(37:26):
kids who saw strange things orchildren haunting places.
Is like. Like the girl fromPoltergeist. You know what I mean?
Honestly, she kind of alsoreads like the little girl from Poltergeist,
which was a movie I watched alot when I was probably too young
to watch it, which is a themethat's come. No, that wasn't you.
That was my mother.
(37:46):
No. Was it?
So just for.
For everyone, I was Nightmareon Elm.
Street for everyone'sknowledge. Paul made me watch Nightmare
of Elm street when I was like,I don't know, four.
I'm sorry. I've heard aboutthis many times. I. I apologize.
But since we're Talking aboutthe 80s, we should talk about it
all. Yes. Night. Red Elsterwas one of them. It was big.
(38:08):
This is about their trauma,not mine. But. But, yeah, I. Holly
does kind of read like thelittle girl from the Poltergeist.
And I wonder. I do wonder ifthey were trying to make a point
about children being sensitiveto the magical elements of the show,
even though the writers of theshow don't. They don't consider this
to be a fantasy. They considerthis to be sci fi. But I'm gonna
(38:31):
go ahead and say that this ismagic stuff. Erica's right there.
And Erica doesn't really.She's more on the logical, skeptical
end of things. So I think ifthey were trying to make that point,
they could have made it withErica, who, as we know, takes on
a bigger role in season three,but also is quite present in season
(38:53):
two as well. So, I don't know,just something to keep in mind. We
should keep an eye on Holly.I. I think some of this stuff is
like, they were inspired bytheir own work. Like, maybe Holly's
gonna play a bigger rolebecause they're going back to the
beginning in order to tell theend of the story. And they. That
scene where Holly sees thelight stuck out to them too.
(39:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I think there'ssome things that I. In the season
that, like, we're drawing thething around Holly and Poltergeist.
I think they wanted us tobelieve. To look at certain things.
I thought that when they'rebeing chased through the street and
everything around elle feltvery E.T. it felt like you should
remember and think about E.T.and also the connection between Elle
(39:37):
and Eggos or we're makingjokes about. It felt very much like
ET And Reese's Pieces. Like,let's take a very big, like, food,
like, iconic thing that peopleadvertise and let's like, tie it
to the main character. So Ithink, like, there's like, some real
key things that were devicesin early Spielberg work and early,
(39:58):
like these things that I'msure that they grew up loving. You
know what I mean? Like, likewe all love. And so, like, it's.
It's pretty cool to see themdo those kind of things.
Totally. Yeah. There's so manyEaster eggs and, you know, they're
pulling from the whole body ofhorror and sci fi and fantasy from
the 80s. I mean, clearly they.They watch the fantasy movies that
(40:22):
were popular then because wewill get a never ending story. We'll
enter the chat in a couple seasons.
100%.
Yeah. I think they'redefinitely trying to make those connections
with what's on screen, for sure.
So let's. Let's talk aboutwhat we learned. Let's talk about
what we learned this in thesefour episodes. So, I mean, the upside
(40:44):
down. Does it equal the veilof shadows?
Yeah. So, like. Well, weshould say what this section is.
So this what we learnedsection is where we're gonna pull
some of the, like, rules thatthey tell us because often Dustin
or Mr. Clark or, I don't know,somebody else, Hopper, Joyce, whoever,
(41:06):
will stumble upon a rule. Andso we're gonna kind of collect those
here just to keep in mindbecause we might need them for season
five.
Shout to Mr. Clark. Alwaysmakes time.
Joyce shows up in his crib too.
Like, hey, it's wild. Yeah, hemakes time. He's here. As my boy
Tony Baker would say, he's inthe community, all right. He's in
(41:29):
the community, all right. Sois the Upside down the Veil of Shadows?
Is it the same?
I think. I don't know that itis the same exactly. But the Veil
of Shadows in D and D lore isa parallel dimension which is full
(41:51):
of decay and darkness. It kindof is a stand in for the Upside Down.
It helps them understand sortof what's going on. And I like that
the show uses dungeon dragonsso that the kids have vocabulary
to talk about the magic. Theydon't have to make up words. Right.
(42:12):
You know, eventually theyfigure out the Upside down because
Elle turns over the. The boardand. But it's similar to the Veil
of Shadows, which is a DNDterm for this place that is, you
know, essentially a dimensionthat runs parallel to the main dimension,
(42:34):
but is a place of just like,you know, decay. Everything's falling
apart. Darkness and monsterslurk there. So, yeah, I just, like,
really like that the showintroduces that. Not because I think
they thought that, like, theshow, the show was going to be a
hit with just D and D fans,but because it's. It helps give the
(42:56):
kids, who are quite young.Right. I think they're 10 in the
first season, a framework forall the crazy shit they're about
to see.
Yeah, no, no question. And Ithink, like, yeah, we talked about
Holly still being open, butthey're not quite closed yet because
of this connection to theirbelief in, like, these magical things
(43:17):
in this magical world. It'slike their idea of, like, we're too
old for that hasn't kicked inquite yet.
No. You know, I think. And Ithink we're supposed to understand
that, like, Nanc and Jonathanhave reached that stage of like,
there's a lot of skepticismfor them. Hopper is like, you know,
middle aged skeptic, notbuying any of it. But the kids are
(43:42):
a little bit easier to pullalong because they're already kind
of half in that fantasy world.They have these big imaginations.
They're already. They'realready thinking about this.
No, 100%. We also learned thatthe Demogorgons are drawn to blood
and that they can crossbetween worlds. I still don't. Well,
(44:04):
I guess we'll find out laterin. In another season how they cross
between worlds. You know, wewould think, but the Demogorgons
like being drawn to blood.Early on, we learned that when blood
is spilled, it's like a beaconfor a Demogorgon. Like, they just
come to that blood and it'spulling it. Like, it pulls it across
dimensions. And it doesn'tjust lurk in the Upside down. Which
(44:27):
is fascinating because youwould think that, like you said,
there's like, beast inside theveil of shadows. It can push into
Hawkins when the conditionsare right. And that hunger makes
it a threat. So it feelsimmediate when also. And it feels
like it looks like it looksfor injury and. Or blood and. Or
(44:50):
vulnerability and that thensummons the monster. It feels like.
So I think that that's one.And the last thing I think that we
learned is that, man, it's atough one. Is that. Because I think
we're going to see a lot ofgrief throughout the show. But where
(45:11):
we find Hopper in thebeginning is crippled by grief. He's
crippled by the grief oflosing his daughter Sarah. And we
see Hopper's transformationslowly from, like, checked out cop.
Like, you know, he has, youknow, one of my favorite lines about
coffee ever, like, in thefirst season to a believer who we
(45:38):
root for, we root for himthrough the tragedy of the loss of
his daughter. There's thatscene where they're out in the woods
and they're looking for Will.And, you know, he just makes up a
lie to somebody so he doesn'teven have to talk about it, about
what, you know, what happenedto his daughter. And his grief initially
is like, he's trying to numbout. It makes him numb. He's numbing
(46:00):
out. And he's even numbing toJoyce's panic. He doesn't really
want to, like, accept whatJoyce is talking about because he
doesn't want to see. I thinkhe just doesn't want to see Joyce
go through what he's goingthrough. I think that's what drives
him. I think that's what wakeshim up, is like, oh, my God, I'm
seeing someone that I knowexperience that same level of loss,
even if it's under differentcircumstances. But once the conspiracy
(46:22):
starts to unravel, man.
And I also think the reason, Ithink that this is a thing we need
to remember about Hopper firstand foremost is that in a way, this
horrible thing that happens tothe Byers family Will going missing
almost forges a new familybecause Hopper is more of a father
(46:46):
to Will and Lonnie than. Imean, Will and Jonathan, than Lonnie
ever could be. And you see itvery early on when he talks to Jonathan
and he's like, I got this.Like, you can be a kid. I have got
this. I will find yourbrother. I promise you. And that
loss of Sarah, I think,follows Hopper through the entire
(47:07):
series. El eventually becomeshis daughter, and then El becomes
Will and Jonathan's sister.And it's like they have this initial
loss that drove him so much,ended up being part of the reason
that a whole new familyformed. Now him and Joyce haven't
made it official. And I swear,I swear to God, if I do not get an
(47:36):
official Joyce and Hopper, welove each other moment in this season,
I'm going to find the Duffersand I'm going to have mean words
for them. Okay, look, thesetwo need to get together. They're
already essentially a familyunit. He treats her kids like they're
his kids. He. The way that hewill fight for Will, and I'm assuming
(47:58):
Jonathan as well, and the waythat she just automatically takes
an L and adopts her whenHopper is. This is his family. And
that loss of Sarah, as tragicas it was, it couldn't be stopped.
But it kind of drives him tocreate a found family. And I think
that's truly beautiful.
And to. And to be fair, Ithink, like, it also does it for
(48:19):
Joyce, drives her to find,like, this whole situation. You saw
it when she first. Howcompassionate she was towards Elle
and how grateful she was forher risking herself to go find Will
in season one, in this season.And we'll talk more about it later
on. But I really love. I agreewith you. I love this family group.
(48:40):
So let's close out withtalking about what themes we liked.
What themes did we like anddid we see in. In this episode? In
this run of episodes, yeah.
So chapters one through four,if I have to pull out some themes,
there were two that kind ofstood out to me. One was the relationships
between mothers and children.Winona Ryder was obviously the top,
(49:05):
and I think still is the topbilled actress on the show. I think
her name appears. I think it'slike her and then David Harbour and
so on and so forth. Joyce wassuch a pivotal character to pull
us into the story right awaywith her urgency, her determination,
the fact that she believedherself in that very first scene
(49:28):
when her and Jonathan arerealizing that something has gone
terribly wrong. She says toJonathan, I know he's still here.
I can feel it. And the waythat everyone else is like, this
woman is nuts. And includingJonathan, who is like, okay, mom,
all right.
Yeah, he's.
You.
He's like, you got to stopthis, Mom. Like, this is not healthy.
(49:52):
Like, everyone thinks thiswoman is nuts, but it. It sets the
tone for the whole showbecause she believes right away,
she. She's a she. There's someissues with Joyce in the first season,
especially in her parentingfor Jonathan, who routinely disappears
for long stretches of time,and she has no idea where. But I'm
(50:14):
one. I think that's just,like, the nature of the 80s. But
in contrast to Mrs. Wheeler,who seems to keep a tight leash on
Nancy, you know, it's not thebest, but in. In a. Yeah, yeah.
So when you guys. You guys areout here asking, like, what happened
to, like, older millennialsand Gen X, that's what happened.
We were feral. We looked like.We did what we wanted to. We drank
from fire hoses. They did it.They had commercials at 10pm to see
(50:38):
if they knew to remind ourparents that we. A lot. We were alive
and existed, literally. Lookit up. There's a commercial that
asked them, it's 10pm do youknow where your children are? It's
a real thing.
That's so crazy that they hadto remind people to check on their
kids.
I know it's nuts, but.
But, you know, I think thatJoyce, Karen Wheeler, there's trying
(51:01):
really hard to be goodparents. Good mothers especially.
I don't think the dads havesuch a great showing in this first.
First few episodes. Lonnie isgarbage. Ted is completely aloof.
Hopper is spiraling like. ButJoyce and. And Karen really try to
(51:22):
connect to their children andhold on to them tightly. And I. I
think that's worth noting. It.It really.
Fathers at all fantasy shows,huh? Like, really bad. Really bad.
I mean, also, we didn't evenmention Brenner, who. You know, papa's
not the best dad either.
We got Asriel. I mean, who'swho? All right, you gotta choose
(51:44):
Adriel or Brenner. Who yougoing with? Boy, that's rough.
I think I'm wrong with Azrael because.
That'S saying a lot about.
Asriel would never. I don'tthink he would have ever made light.
We're talking about his darkmaterials, by the way, in case you
have no idea. He would havenever made Lyra, I think, do the
(52:06):
types of things that Brennermade El do.
Yeah, I'm with you.
I don't think he would anyway.Maybe. But I don't think so. Maybe
actually, they were both menof science.
I don't know if he had tobring down the Magisterium or he
had to, like, go against, youknow, Mega Metatron. He might. He
(52:28):
just might.
Yeah. I'm not. I. I don'tknow. I hope not.
Now, Mrs. Coulter, that'sdifferent story. All right, listen,
Mrs. Culture of a story. Talkabout mothers and children. Mrs.
Coulter, ride or die.
Yeah. Karen and Joyce are. Are10 times better than Mrs. Coulter
is. Moms just put that there.
Yes. 100. Way better. Like,are you kidding me? 10 times better.
(52:52):
Yeah.
So, yeah. I just want to notethat there's such a strong. A show
like this could have, like,de. Centered the adults immediately.
Like, immediately. And theydidn't. They. I mean, Joyce is still
a main character. KarenWheeler is not a main character,
but she's a character that weknow that has her own storyline that
(53:15):
we've gotten to know betterover the years. Like, and then, you
know, later we will meetTerry, who is Elle's mom, and that's
a different story of adifferent type of tragic motherhood.
So I just thought that thatcame out really strong in these first
few episodes as mothers tryingto protect their children, trying
to connect with them.
(53:37):
Yeah. And I think that, youknow, you mentioned two themes. I
think the other one would beisolation and communication. You
know, Will's super isolated inthe Upside Down. He's. He's trying
hard to send signals throughlights, through music. Elle is super
isolated by her trauma. Ithink she's isolated by the trauma.
(53:58):
I think she's isolated by herlimited speech. I think as she's.
As she's slowly learning newwords, new phrases, new ideas from
the. You know, from the party.
Friends don't lie.
Friends don't lie. Friends.
I love season one El so much.
(54:19):
Yeah, it's good. It's reallygood. And I think even Nancy, to
me, she feels isolated. Shedoesn't quite know how to fit in
the way she wants to. She'strying to make this move into, like,
you know, this relationship,maybe, but maybe it doesn't fit.
(54:39):
Maybe that's not the rightvibe for her. And when no one else
takes Barb's disappearanceseriously, I think she really feels
isolated because she caresabout her friend, and she knows that
it's important. So these earlychapters, I think, are setting up
some recurring themes thatwe're going to revisit, and I think
(55:00):
one of them is aboutcommunication and the need to reach
across barriers. I thinkthat's a big one.
Yeah. I mean, Will spends allof these episodes trying to reach
across dimensions.
Yeah.
Just to. Just to speak to hismom, you know, just to have his mom
come and talk to him, to beable to hear her voice. So that isolation
(55:25):
that he must have felt and theneeding to reach across, reaching
over those, through thosebarriers, to connect. Super important
in these first four chapters.I think it's one of the main themes
of this first season.
Yeah, totally agree. So thatwill do it for us on this first episode
(55:52):
covering Stranger Things. Youknow the drill. Check us out. Kinfolklore.com
Kinfolk Folklore pod onInstagram. Kinfolklore pod on TikTok.
Yeah, Twitter.
Yeah, we're not calling itthat other name. It's still Twitter
to us.
It's still Twitter. We'restill. We're still calling it Twitter.
(56:12):
And yeah, hit us up at our. Atour email kidfolklore gmail dot com.
We are so happy to be backhanging out with y' all inside the
Upside Down. Yeah, it's been aminute and so we're. We're happy
to be doing. Happy to be doingthis with you, cuz.
I'm delighted. I'm so happy tobe back.
So we'll see you next time.
(56:32):
Bye, everyone.
Welcome back to Kin Folklore.This season we're traveling all the
way back to the fall of 1983in Hawkins, Indiana. The food. Echoes.
Yum.
The hangout. Mike's Basement.
Musty.
That's right. We're startingat the very beginning of Stranger
(00:32):
Things, where a missing boyand a mysterious girl and a town
full of secrets set off anunforgettable story. I'm Andrea.
And I'm Paul. And for those ofyou who are new here, we're cousins
who dive into fantasy and scifi worlds we love. And few shows
capture our hearts and thecollective anxiety. Quite like Stranger
(00:57):
Things. These early episodesintroduce us to the party, the town
of Hawkins, and of course, theDemogorgons lurking in the shadows.
In order to prepare for thefinal season coming out this November,
we're rewatching the entireseries from the very beginning. Today,
we'll be covering season one,chapters one through four. So if
(01:19):
you haven't seen up to chapterfour, hit pause, binge, then come
right back. And spoilerwarning. This podcast is not spoiler
free. We'll be discussing allfour seasons of Stranger Things.
One small caveat is we willnot be talking about Stranger Things
the first shadow, which we'lldo a separate mini episode on, because
(01:44):
not everyone has access to theplay. Everyone has net. Well, if
you're listening to this, youhave Netflix, so you can watch all
the seasons, but the play isonly available in New York, so we
won't spoil that.
I really want to see the play.I'm excited about it.
It's really good.
Says the person who's seen ittwice. I love it. I love it.
No, I only saw it once. I onlysaw once.
Okay, all right, all right.
I have tickets to see itagain. Plan on seeing it twice. I've
(02:09):
only seen it once.
I may have to crash thatparty. But you know what? Kinfolklore
will also have adult content,thanks to Steve Harrington's party
of five and his binge drinkinghijinks, Nancy's peer pressuring
to do bodily harm to herself,and of course, Jonathan Byers being
an unpaid paparazzi of one,there will be.
(02:32):
Why?
Why are these children havingsex anyway? There will be adult content.
Let's go.
Terrible, terrible, terrible.So in each episode, we're going to
summarize the chapters thatwe're covering. So I'm going to talk
about the first two chapters.The Vanishing of Will Byers and the
(02:54):
Weirdo on Maple Street. Weopen in Hawkins Lab, where something
escapes into the night in athe flickering light of Mike Wheeler's
basement. Four boys huddlearound the table, dice in hand. Suspended
in a world far away fromHawkins, Mike, the dungeon master,
(03:16):
spins a tale of danger. Theparty is in a deep, shadowy cave,
stopped by a monster beyondthe imagining. The Demogorgon. And
we'll talk more about that Dand D game, which I think may have
had a little foreshadowing init for sure. By morning, one of that
party, Will Byers, hasvanished after a really scary encounter.
(03:40):
On his way home from Mike'shouse, his mother, Joyce, Frank,
Dick, the police chief Hopper.Well, let's just say he's not on
top of things.
No, not in the least bit.
Not on top of things at all.And Will's friends decide to search
for themselves, only todiscover a young girl, 11. The hero
(04:05):
of our story. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe.
Maybe. Maybe. Meanwhile, Joycerefuses to give up. In despair, she
strings up some Christmaslights. Because that's totally normal,
totally rational. All over herhouse. It's Christmas. You know,
it's only a month early. Youknow, this is just November. It's
(04:27):
Okay.
Listen. Never too early to befestive. Some people are putting
out, you know, she was aheadof the curve when it came. She works
in a store, so she's alreadythinking about decoration.
I know, she. Exactly. She'strying to get everyone in the mood
for the holiday season, Right?It's nothing strange about it.
Nothing strange.
At the same time, Nancy,Mike's sister, she's going through
(04:52):
some teenage things. Goingthrough some teenage things. She
has a boyfriend, maybe, right?A situationship.
I don't know, what.
With the hottest guy inschool, Steve Harrington.
The best. Here.
He invites her over to a partyat his house. She lies to everybody.
Like she tells her mom she'sgoing to study.
(05:16):
It's a party. Sans party.There is no party. There's four other
people. There's no party.
That's. That's true. Therereally is. There really aren't. There's
only four of them. @ the endof that party, Nancy's friend Barb,
who she bullied to be there.
Yeah.
Disappears.
Oh, Barb.
Which draws Nancy deeper intothe mystery.
(05:40):
So let's talk about chaptersthree and chapters four. Holly, Jolly
and the body. Joyce has turnedher entire house into a glowing web
of Christmas lights. She'sunraveling before our very eyes,
creating some sort of code totalk with Will. She can hear him,
you know. She's heard hisvoice through the phone. She's communicating
(06:03):
somehow, intuitively knowsthat Christmas.
He's busted up. Two. Twophones have been Busted up two phones.
She's like. She's takingadvances out at her job. She is.
It's hilarious. So she'sunraveling when the wall itself bulges
out. She knows that he'salive, but trapped somewhere dark
(06:24):
and dangerous. So there's amonster break trying to break through.
And Joyce's insistence thatthe supernatural stops sounding like
grief and starts sounding likethe truth at the same time. Elle,
our, you know, friend that wefound, Elle, is giving me ET Vibes
during this season. I'm justgonna be honest. Like, they found
(06:44):
her and they're, like, tryingto, like. It feels very ET But Elle
grows closer to the boys,proving her powers by tapping into
a school radio and findingWill's voice singing from the other
side.
Do I say or do I go?
I love it. We'll talk moreabout that song, too. Lucas doesn't
trust her. Lucas is not. He'snot trusting l. At all. But Mike
(07:08):
is smitten. He's all in.
He's. Oh, he's all.
He's all in. He's all about.
That's his girl.
All about.
He just decided. He took onelook at Elle, actually. I think it
was really when she closed thedoor for power.
Yeah.
Then he was like, oh, I like apowerful woman.
Like, superpowers. Let's go.I'm in. So Hopper, suspicious, and
(07:29):
his suspicions are starting togrow too. He's starting to think
something weird is going on,especially after they pull a body
that's supposed to be Will'sfrom a quarry. So he's like, wait.
He says, let me just look alittle deeper, see what's happening.
Only to discover that thecorpse that was made of Will, for
(07:51):
some reason, he just knows,cut this body open, and it has cotton.
I was, like, the mosthorrified. I was like, what are we
doing? Yeah, why are we.Hopper, why are we cutting. Why are
we cutting the bodies of smallchildren open?
Because he's unhinged.
It worked out for him, right?It worked out.
But he's unhinged. He'sunhinged. Unbelievable. You know,
like. And this time, he findsout that maybe. Maybe Joyce is right.
(08:16):
Because the body's full ofcotton, and there's a cover up, and
it's real. And Hawkins lab isat the center of this cover up.
Yeah. So at the end of this.This block of episodes, we. We lost
quite a few people. That's.That's standard for this show.
We lost a few people. Butlet's start off with the guy who
(08:36):
we lose right away. Unnamedlab Tech. Right away. He's hitting
the button. He's clicking on it.
I mean, technically.Technically, we don't see him die
in this episode. I'm. He couldstill be out there. He could still
be out there. I don't think heis, but he could technically still
(08:56):
be out there.
And then I'm gonna say one ofthe shortest lived characters. But
honestly, a kind soul. He'shad a heart of gold. Benny Hammond.
Friend of the show, Friend ofHopper. Yeah. He was the proprietor
of Benny's Burgers, and sorest in peace, Benny. And. And last
(09:18):
but not least, she's missingright now. We don't know whether
she's truly gone.
I said this was not a spoilerfree podcast. Let's just call it
Barb is Dead.
She's dead.
Golly, Barb is gone. Okay, Iknow we don't technically confirm
(09:39):
that Barb is gone. So.
As is a kin folkloretraditional. Take a minute. Pour
one out for the unnamed labtech, Betty Hammond and Barbara Holland.
This goes out to all ourfallen homies. Yo, Liquor.
(10:04):
Don't let the kid get likethat, y'. All. We're not right. He
may have had a name in the script.
I just.
I'm not looking it up.
Running from a Demogorgonnever works out. It just never seems
to work out. Oh, my God. Solet's. Let's talk about some noteworthy
things. Let's start withchapter one. So what do you think
about this DND game? You saidyou want to talk about the D and
(10:25):
D game. Let's talk.
All right. All right. Here'swhere I put on my tinfoil hat. I
may actually make a tinfoilhat for the podcast.
At the end of this, we bothmay need one.
So. All right. We have this.This DND campaign that they're doing
for 10 hours, which I'm justlike, I don't know, is that cool
that they were there for 10? Iguess kids today probably spend 10
(10:48):
hours scrolling through, youknow, tick Tock or, like, playing
video games. So it's probablyfine. It's probably fine. So they
have this game, and Will hasto. It's all up to Will's actions.
He has to roll a 13 or higher.And what I think is most interesting
(11:09):
about this game, if you listento the dialogue, we have them telling
him what to do. CastProtection or Fireball the Demogorgon.
Right. I think it's Lucas whowants him to cast protection, and
Dustin who wants him to useFireball. He chooses Fireball, but
(11:34):
he rolls a seven. But Mikenever Sees that and they decide that
Mike runs upstairs to see hismom because she's being a mom. Like,
she's like, y' all been downthere so long.
Time to do something. What thehell is going on?
Like, what are we doing here?Why are we. Why are we doing this?
So he actually thinks that,you know, like they have a discussion
(11:56):
about whether or not it countsbecause he wasn't there to see that
it was a seven. But Willloses, right? And he. He comes clean
to Mike and he says, theDemogorgon got me foreshadowing for
sure. I mean, so that piece isforeshadowing. But I just want to
put a pin in the fireball orcast protection too. Because a lot
(12:21):
of the lead up to season threein the fan community is. Does Will
have latent powers? Is what'sgoing on with Will. Will has been
connected to the magic in thisstory from the very first episode.
So I'm wondering what wastelegraphed in this D and D campaign
that might happen. Can. Canwill protect. And it might be metaphorical,
(12:45):
can will protect or can willdestroy Vecna, who I guess is their
big bad now. So just want toput that out there.
It's a good. It's a good catch.
I mean.
Yeah, it's a good catch. I'm.What I'm wondering too. I'm wondering
too, because he starts. Westart inching towards something happening
(13:08):
with Will near. I mean,something's always happening with
Will, but like, powers wise,it's feeling like. Like there could
be something happening in the.In the last season that we've seen
so far. Maybe, maybe in thisupcoming season we get Will's powers.
If we haven't seen hints of it already.
Will already has some powers,right? We know from season two and
(13:31):
three that he can. And four,frankly, he can kind of detect. Yeah,
when fair the Mind Flayerslash Vecna sl. Like, I think all
of that still seems to be.Need to be sorted out. But he. He
does. You know the thing wherehe rubs the back of his neck. He
can feel. He can sense thatthe veil between the worlds is coming
(13:54):
down. So that is a power. Butis that it? Is there more to it?
I have questions and we'll.We'll talk more about some of my
questions from the first.These first four episodes.
Well, he does have one powerthat nobody's ever quite explained.
And maybe it's because like inthe Upside down, just like when you
go away, like you get onephone call. You know what I mean?
(14:17):
Like, how. How does how doeshe call Joyce? Like, is there a payphone
in the Upside Down? Do you getone phone call before you get sentenced
to Demogorgon purgatory? Like,what is happening? We never really
established what's happening.How does Joyce get the phone call?
So do we want to.
I want to. Yes.
So I keep. Should I keep my.My tinfoil hat?
(14:39):
Well, very present. Let's go.
Okay. I got questions then.All right. So how is he making phone
calls from the Upside Down?
No clue. But.
But my first question comesbefore that. When Will runs into
his house to get away,something unlocks the door from.
From the inside. Like thelittle chain lock slides, Right.
(15:04):
As far as we know, Demogorgonscan't move things with their minds.
So who did that?
L does else.
I think we have to beg thequestion. Was L present at the buyer's
residence when Will wentmissing? I think we have to ask that
question. It is anuncomfortable question for me because
(15:25):
I have questions about whatthat might mean for L. But was L
there? Because the only personwe're aware of who can move things
with their mind. I mean, Vecnacan. Right? So maybe Vecna was there.
Maybe. The story they willtell us is that Vecna was always
there, always present, alwaysfacilitating this. But other than
(15:47):
Vecna, Ella is the onlycandidate. And the reason, I think
it's especially interesting,and I'd love. I'd love to hear the
story of what happened thatnight. And I think we will, because
I've seen some. Some stillshots from. From season five, and
it's clear that they areflashing back. And there's also that
(16:07):
line from the teaser whereJoyce says to Will, I think about
that night. So I think we'llget some of these answers. But who
unlocked the door? Who openedthe portal?
Yeah, I think it because.Because how does Will get into the
Upside down unless El openedthe portal, and maybe it was to fight
the demog. Maybe it was to dosomething else.
(16:30):
Maybe she was tracking it.
But, like, it doesn't makesense. The. The opening of the door,
Will getting to the Upsidedown, like, on his own, and then
her identifying him, like inthe picture, without us ever seeing
her cross paths with him. Soshe obviously saw Will before they
met her. You know what I mean?Like, so.
(16:52):
Right. Because I don't think Ihave a theory. And this. We can talk
more about this when we. Wecover the back end of the season,
but we never quite get anexplanation for how Elle got out
of the lab fully either. AndI've always wondered, did l leave
the lab through the Upsidedown and then end up at Will's house
(17:15):
somehow? So I think there'ssome unanswered questions. I mean,
some of this is going to beflatly false. You know, we're just
speculating. But some of it, Ithink these are questions that I
think we still have to answer.And I think it's crazy that we're
almost 10 years into the showand we don't have answers.
Mortgages, they've gottenmarried, they're doing rock albums.
They, like, got everythinggoing on. It's kind of crazy.
(17:38):
She just, yeah, she just had ababy. So I, I, it's crazy how long
this show has been on. I stilllove it. But this is, you know, these
are questions we've had for,like, you know what?
We don't question that Ellehas, in this show, met her one true
love. She is, she is. She is.Echoes all about those, those Eggos.
If she had to choose betweenMike and an Eggo, what do you think
(18:02):
she would do?
I think it's Eggos hands down.
I mean, if I have to choosebetween Mike.
Yeah. And an Eggo, Eggos havebeen the source of comfort. I'm just
saying she, listen, she has,she's hurt some people on behalf
of Mike, but she has, likegone on whole crime sprees over Eggos.
(18:23):
She has taken stores down.She's gone to like, she's gone on
missions with like her longlost sister and stole Eggos. She
is about the Eggos. She isdefinitely. She doesn't even steal
money. She cares less aboutmoney than she cares about Eggos.
Eggos have more value.
Yeah. 100 think if it'sbetween Mike and Eggos. Eggos. When
(18:47):
if someone came to Ellen waslike, you can never have another
Eggo again.
If.
Or you can never see Mikeagain. I think that's an easy trade
for her. That said, I knowpeople are going to get into my DMs
talking about Mike. I don'tcare. Okay. Right. I don't like Mike.
(19:08):
After season four, I don'tcare for Mike.
Break that down, please.
I stand on business aboutMike. I like the Wheeler family.
Overall. I, I will ride for,for Mrs. Wheeler and for Nancy. Mike
gets on my nerves.
He gets on everybody.
We all get to dislike at leastone kid, right?
(19:30):
Mike is, Mike could beannoying. No question about it. He's
definitely annoyed.
He's, I will say this in myrewatch. So I left the end of season
four really being angry atMike. I just felt like in season
four, he was so harsh oneverybody on L. A little bit on Will.
(19:51):
Like, he just. He just reallyannoyed me on my re. Watch. Mike
is a ride or die. So eventhough he gets on my nerves, I'm
pretty sure he's gonna redeemhimself because he's just a. The
kid is just. He. He learnedWill was missing. Right. So in the
back to the. If we circle thisback to the first episode, he learns
Will is missing, and herefuses to just sit there. Right?
(20:15):
Yeah. 100 he refuse.
He has to take action. Then hefinds this girl who can. He believes
can help him find Will. Andit's like love at first sight. Ride
or die. Mike is. Mike andNancy both are like. They're. They're
your day ones. Those. You wantthem in your corner, which is more
(20:37):
than we can say for Lucas.
Oh, damn. Look. They have allof the stick to itiveness, resilience,
and major focus that their dadlacks. And their mom. Their mom longs
for.
I knew Ted was going to catchastray. I knew that Ted Wheeler was
(20:58):
going to catch astray.
Yo. Ted Wheeler is lacking onmany, many levels, as we will get
into throughout the show. Butlet's see, maybe he redee herself
later too. So let's talk aboutElle in Nancy's room. As she's in
the room, she's. You can seethat there's something that's not
familiar about it. Right. Butthere's a part of her that longs
(21:20):
for normal girlhood. Like, shenormally. She wants to be like, you
know, she wants to feel whatthat feels like. And it's the beginning.
It's like the entry level.It's like the entry point to El's
search for her identity.
Yeah. So the. Like this first.The first two episodes really do
(21:41):
such a good job ofestablishing our characters and telling
us sort of what their arc willbe. And I was really struck in the
rewatch that that Findingidentity piece that's El is still
doing that in season four. Shestill. The lab took so much away
(22:04):
from her. She never. She nevergot to know her. Her mother. We don't
know who else dad is to thisday and maybe never will.
Papa. I'm sorry. I couldn'thelp it.
I cannot stand that man.
Oh, I hate him. I so hate him.
I cannot stand him. I see himand my back is up immediately.
(22:26):
Oh, it's terrible.
I want to fight him. I'm. I'mvery protective over Elle, even though
I'm. I'm not always sure thatElle is Not a villain, but I'm very
protective over my girl. But Ijust want to back to Elle's identity.
Like it's. It's one of this isa thing her that tie her and Will
together. Right. They bothhave this in between worlds. Not
(22:50):
really sure where they fit in.Seeking self arc. Right. And I think
that they're both still goingthrough it. Like in I. I found season
four really frustratingbecause Will is going through it
in a lot of ways that botheredme. But I think they're intentionally
(23:11):
setting up an arc there. Andwhen we get to that season, we'll
talk more about it. But it. Iwas just struck because I, you know,
I'm watching the whole thingtogether. Right. I was just struck
and by how consistent thesethemes and these character themes
and characterizations of themstuck with them. This is who Ellen
(23:31):
Will are. They're both alwaysgrasping for something. And we will
talk about the. The songShould I Stay or Should I Go a little
bit later? But like that. Thatseems to apply to both of them constantly.
Like, do they belong inHawkins? Do they belong with this
(23:54):
group of friends? Like, youknow, and for different reasons,
but for both of them, it's notby choice. They don't choose to be
in. In an in between space.They don't choose to be outsiders.
They both really want to benormal, to fit in, to find community.
And like, I think that'swhat's so interesting is like Will
(24:14):
has an established communityin this event, pulls him out of that
community and puts her in acommunity for the first time. And
then they both kind ofstruggle to figure out where they
fit. Do they fit? So it's likea beautiful story in that way.
I know we have some otherthings we want to cover first, but
I really like talking aboutthat. And since we're here, we should
(24:36):
talk about the song. So thesong is by the Clash. This version
of it is by the Clash. And Ithink, you know, music on my rewatch,
you and I were talking aboutit, you know, offline is I think
like, music really plays a keyrole in this series in general. I
think we noticed it withrunning up that. Running up the hill.
(24:58):
But going back and watchingyou start realizing that this is.
This is like an important partof. Of the whole entire thread of
what's going on. Yeah. I thinka hint that music kind of tethers
us to memory in the connectionis. And also love. There's some love
(25:20):
there. It helps the charactersstay anchored in their world. Like
every time it's likesomething's happening. We see that
or something that's importantin the narrative, even up to moments
in season four, you see wheremusic comes into play. What do you
think they're trying to showus with this? Or how do you think
that this is gonna play outlong term?
(25:40):
First of all, I love it. Ilove that, like. I mean, Lucas, I
think, is the one who comes upwith this idea when it comes to Max
later, but he kind of spellsit out for us, which is that, like,
music reaches parts of ourbrain that, like, are different from
(26:01):
our vision, from, you know,other arts, like visual arts. And
so I think that. I think thatit's really beautiful that we get
to see the origin of wherethis stor. This song bonds Will to
Jonathan, a character who wehaven't really talked much about
(26:24):
so far, but is one of the mostimportant characters in the series.
Right.
Truly.
But like, that brotherly bondthey have. The. The music was used
to cover up a trauma thatJonathan knew that Will was experiencing.
He played it for him whentheir parents were fighting, which
(26:47):
doesn't actually seem thatlong. Right. I was struck by. I had
the sense that Joyce andLonnie had been separated for ages,
but actually, when. When yousee that flashback, Jonathan and
Will don't look that muchyounger than they are when the show
starts.
Right.
So they haven't been separatedthat long. And so I think. And this
(27:08):
song came out in a yearbefore. Right. So it's not. Obviously
it's. It's pretty close. Ijust think that that connective using
music is sort of the. It's thething that binds you and keeps you
tethered to your world. And Ithink in this story, your world is
not just the dimension you'rein. Right. This is a story where
there are multiple dimensions.I think there four dimensions total.
(27:33):
But we, at least in seasonone, know about two. Right. I. I
think that it's not just aboutbeing tethered to your dimension.
It's about being in. In thatcommunity that we were talking about
earlier. Like, Will doesn'tjust have Mike and Lucas and Dustin.
(27:53):
He also has his mother, whois. Is like one of the bravest characters
in the series and never givesup on him and his brother, who would
do anything for him. I worryabout Jonathan more than any other
character because I do thinkthat if it comes down to it, Jonathan
would literally give up hislife for his brother. And so that
(28:14):
music kind of ties it alltogether, and it's what keeps Will
alive in the Upside Down. Willis in the Upside Down. For a week.
Yeah. I mean, his mom. It'sproof to his mom that he's still
alive when she hears itthrough the walls. When. Like, when.
Like when that's happening,when. When Joyce hears that song
bleeding through the walls,she knows, okay, my son's still here.
(28:36):
Something. It's like a symbolof hope, the song. And then it's
also. It's also like Will'sphysically singing in the Upside
down, right, as Eleven'slooking for him, which lets you know,
it's like a lifeline, and it'sa symbol of, like, his own resilience,
and it's his tie to it. It'skind of one of those things, though,
(28:59):
that when I keep seeing musiclike this and I keep seeing how,
you know, music is a part of,like, even in this first season,
it made me start questioning,okay, how much of what's happening
Upside down and what we'veestablished earlier, that maybe Elle
was in the house and maybe sheopened the portal while Will was
(29:20):
there. How much of that istied to, like, the Upside down and
this connection to music, theUpside down itself tied to Will's
consciousness. Like, how muchis it, like, tied to who he is? Because
some of these songs keepcoming up based on songs that he
has a memory to. And I thinkthat's an interesting thing that
we'll dissect, I think, overtime of covering this show. But it
(29:41):
just struck me in. In thisfirst season very strongly that this
could be. That there could besome tie there.
Yeah. I mean, going back toour earlier question, how did Will
end up in the Upside down tobegin with? We have to ask that question
because it happens. Ithappens, like, almost instantly.
That's how it's played oncamera. Right. There's a surge. Will
(30:02):
is in the shed. He's scared.There's a surge of. Of energy because
the light bulb gets very, verybright. And when the light bulb gets
back to its normal voltage orwhatever, then Will is gone. So I
think we. I think we have toexplore those ideas, that the Upside
down is. Is somehow tied toWill's consciousness. But I'll say
(30:25):
this. The. The music goesbeyond the Upside down because I
actually don't think that Maxis in the Upside down when she's
running away from Vecna. Ithink. I think we're supposed to
understand that she's in someversion of Vecna's mind and the music
is able to reach her thenthere. So I like what they've done
(30:52):
with. With this theme, and Ilike that it Came back. Right. Like,
I. When I went back andwatched season one, I was shocked.
I had forgotten about this,this song. Totally forgotten about
it. And I think for a lot ofus, in part because the show has
taken so long, the story'staken so long to tell, but also in
part because we weren'texperiencing the show as this, like,
(31:14):
kind of layered thing. Andbecause when they wrote season one,
it wasn't supposed to be amulti season show. It was supposed
to be an anthology season. Soit would have been like, we're introduced,
you know, like American HorrorStory. We're introduced to some elements
of magic that would haveappeared probably elsewhere outside
of Hawkins. But I like thatthey, they tied it all back together
(31:36):
because it's beautiful. Ithink, I absolutely think that, like,
music is a thing that triggersour memories and keeps us connected.
And I, I think we all havethese experiences where a song that
we haven't heard in yearscomes on. We remember every single
word, but we also remember themoments that our brain has tied to
that song. So it could be yourfirst dance. It could be, you know,
(32:01):
an experience that you hadwith your parents. It could be a
lot of different things, butit brings that connection. So I really
liked it.
Yeah, I often say that aboutmusic. Like, you know, no secret,
we made, like parody songs.Everything else that I make music,
and.
If you're new to the pod, youshould go back in the feed and listen
to the parody songs.
(32:22):
It's one of my favorite thingsto do on the pod.
Right. Especially even if youhaven't seen House of the Dragon,
there's a very good parodysong in one of those episodes. Just,
just spoil the episode. Spoilthe show for yourself.
Just do it. Just go, just go,go, go check it out. But I, I bring
it up, the making of music isbecause I often say this when I'm
(32:43):
talking to other artists, isthat that music is about experience
and music is about, like,people ever say, oh, I want people
to stream it, or I'm gonnashare it on social media. The better
way for people. I mean, socialmedia has become a real mechanism
for this, obviously. But it'slike more interesting to me when,
like the songs playing in acoffee shop or the songs playing
(33:06):
at a mall or the songs playingat a barbecue, or the songs playing.
And it just keeps showing upin different places. You start thinking
to yourself, oh, I've heardthis song a bunch of times. I'm gonna
go check out who that artistis. And that's why apps like Shazam
and all these things exist.And I think the reason I bring up
in that context is that aswe're digging into the nostalgia
(33:27):
of Stranger Things, you cannotignore how pop music, rock music,
all these different genres areembedded in even, like, the punk
rock season. Like, we'll getto, like, vibe in season two, how
all of that is kind of like acallback to a time that of discovery
(33:48):
for each of us that have grownup in those eras. Like, we're thinking
about how we discovered thosethings for the first time. Maybe
it's new for people who aredisability, but I think that happens
every generation. That musichelps you discover more about yourself,
more about your world, moreabout your friends. And you hold
on. Like you said, you hold onto those memories forever. So I think,
(34:09):
like, yeah, more to come onthat. But I think this is going to
be a running theme throughoutthe show.
Yeah.
What do you think of Hollywalking towards the light? What.
What is. What is that? Let's.Let's cover that a little bit. It
feels important.
You're just gonna. We don'tknow why the tinfoil hat the whole
episode? Because this isanother one of Andrea's crackpot
theories.
(34:30):
I like it. I like it, though.Let's go. Let's. Listen. You say
you're gonna tie, like, getone and just fit.
Yeah, I think I have to makeone now before we record the next
episode. Okay. So I'm gonna becompletely transparent. There's been
a lot of chatter on theStranger Things interwebs about Holly
(34:50):
Wheeler. I'm not gonna saywhy, because the creators of the
show have gone out of theirway to redact some of the stuff that.
Some of it was fan theory.Some of it was maybe leaked. And
we. We're not gonna shareleaked stuff here. If it's in the
trailer, if it's in thispromotional stills, it's all fair
game. But if it's not, we'renot going to share that kind of stuff
(35:13):
here. We don't want those kindof spoilers. But I've been thinking
more about Holly's characterin part because we do know from some
of the stills that we've seenthat Holly plays a role in this season,
and she's been very minor inthe rest of the show. And so I've
been paying close attention toher because I'm like, what possibly
could they have Holly doing inseason five? Right. Like, she's only
(35:38):
had a few moments. Well, I wasstruck in episode three, or chapter
three, rather, that Hollynotices something about the lights
right away. The lights arecalling To Holly when her mother
and Joyce are in the otherroom. And I have questions about
this. There's another Hollymoment that I have questions about
(36:00):
that is in a later season, andwe'll talk about when we get there.
But it feels important thatshe was walking towards the lights,
that maybe Will was trying tocommunicate with her. That could
be a Will thing. Like, Will.Will figured. You know, I know Holly.
I've known her since she wasborn. Probably him and Mike have
(36:21):
always been friends, but itcould mean something else. Like,
maybe Holly is special, maybebecause she's younger, and younger
children do tend to have moreopen minds, and so maybe she's able
to interact with magic alittle bit because she still. She
doesn't have the skepticismthat an adult would.
(36:43):
Look, this is a time where wejust pause and say, people, we are
Jamaican. And in the Jamaicanculture, you truly believe when a
baby cross over into this partof life, that they can still see
duppy. All right? And Duppyare ghosts, all right? They can still
see the Duppy, the dumpingthem floating around their head.
This is what's happening. Wow.
Okay.
That's what Andrew is saying.
(37:03):
I almost. Please don't do thatwhile I'm drinking my tea. That spit
out tea on the podcast. Thatwould have been very inappropriate.
But, yeah, like, in a lot ofcultures, children are considered
to be more sensitive to thesupernatural. I mean, the 80s tells
us that with so many movies.So many movies in the 80s are about
(37:26):
kids who saw strange things orchildren haunting places.
Is like. Like the girl fromPoltergeist. You know what I mean?
Honestly, she kind of alsoreads like the little girl from Poltergeist,
which was a movie I watched alot when I was probably too young
to watch it, which is a themethat's come. No, that wasn't you.
That was my mother.
(37:46):
No. Was it?
So just for.
For everyone, I was Nightmareon Elm.
Street for everyone'sknowledge. Paul made me watch Nightmare
of Elm street when I was like,I don't know, four.
I'm sorry. I've heard aboutthis many times. I. I apologize.
But since we're Talking aboutthe 80s, we should talk about it
all. Yes. Night. Red Elsterwas one of them. It was big.
(38:08):
This is about their trauma,not mine. But. But, yeah, I. Holly
does kind of read like thelittle girl from the Poltergeist.
And I wonder. I do wonder ifthey were trying to make a point
about children being sensitiveto the magical elements of the show,
even though the writers of theshow don't. They don't consider this
to be a fantasy. They considerthis to be sci fi. But I'm gonna
(38:31):
go ahead and say that this ismagic stuff. Erica's right there.
And Erica doesn't really.She's more on the logical, skeptical
end of things. So I think ifthey were trying to make that point,
they could have made it withErica, who, as we know, takes on
a bigger role in season three,but also is quite present in season
(38:53):
two as well. So, I don't know,just something to keep in mind. We
should keep an eye on Holly.I. I think some of this stuff is
like, they were inspired bytheir own work. Like, maybe Holly's
gonna play a bigger rolebecause they're going back to the
beginning in order to tell theend of the story. And they. That
scene where Holly sees thelight stuck out to them too.
(39:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I think there'ssome things that I. In the season
that, like, we're drawing thething around Holly and Poltergeist.
I think they wanted us tobelieve. To look at certain things.
I thought that when they'rebeing chased through the street and
everything around elle feltvery E.T. it felt like you should
remember and think about E.T.and also the connection between Elle
(39:37):
and Eggos or we're makingjokes about. It felt very much like
ET And Reese's Pieces. Like,let's take a very big, like, food,
like, iconic thing that peopleadvertise and let's like, tie it
to the main character. So Ithink, like, there's like, some real
key things that were devicesin early Spielberg work and early,
(39:58):
like these things that I'msure that they grew up loving. You
know what I mean? Like, likewe all love. And so, like, it's.
It's pretty cool to see themdo those kind of things.
Totally. Yeah. There's so manyEaster eggs and, you know, they're
pulling from the whole body ofhorror and sci fi and fantasy from
the 80s. I mean, clearly they.They watch the fantasy movies that
(40:22):
were popular then because wewill get a never ending story. We'll
enter the chat in a couple seasons.
100%.
Yeah. I think they'redefinitely trying to make those connections
with what's on screen, for sure.
So let's. Let's talk aboutwhat we learned. Let's talk about
what we learned this in thesefour episodes. So, I mean, the upside
(40:44):
down. Does it equal the veilof shadows?
Yeah. So, like. Well, weshould say what this section is.
So this what we learnedsection is where we're gonna pull
some of the, like, rules thatthey tell us because often Dustin
or Mr. Clark or, I don't know,somebody else, Hopper, Joyce, whoever,
(41:06):
will stumble upon a rule. Andso we're gonna kind of collect those
here just to keep in mindbecause we might need them for season
five.
Shout to Mr. Clark. Alwaysmakes time.
Joyce shows up in his crib too.
Like, hey, it's wild. Yeah, hemakes time. He's here. As my boy
Tony Baker would say, he's inthe community, all right. He's in
(41:29):
the community, all right. Sois the Upside down the Veil of Shadows?
Is it the same?
I think. I don't know that itis the same exactly. But the Veil
of Shadows in D and D lore isa parallel dimension which is full
(41:51):
of decay and darkness. It kindof is a stand in for the Upside Down.
It helps them understand sortof what's going on. And I like that
the show uses dungeon dragonsso that the kids have vocabulary
to talk about the magic. Theydon't have to make up words. Right.
(42:12):
You know, eventually theyfigure out the Upside down because
Elle turns over the. The boardand. But it's similar to the Veil
of Shadows, which is a DNDterm for this place that is, you
know, essentially a dimensionthat runs parallel to the main dimension,
(42:34):
but is a place of just like,you know, decay. Everything's falling
apart. Darkness and monsterslurk there. So, yeah, I just, like,
really like that the showintroduces that. Not because I think
they thought that, like, theshow, the show was going to be a
hit with just D and D fans,but because it's. It helps give the
(42:56):
kids, who are quite young.Right. I think they're 10 in the
first season, a framework forall the crazy shit they're about
to see.
Yeah, no, no question. And Ithink, like, yeah, we talked about
Holly still being open, butthey're not quite closed yet because
of this connection to theirbelief in, like, these magical things
(43:17):
in this magical world. It'slike their idea of, like, we're too
old for that hasn't kicked inquite yet.
No. You know, I think. And Ithink we're supposed to understand
that, like, Nanc and Jonathanhave reached that stage of like,
there's a lot of skepticismfor them. Hopper is like, you know,
middle aged skeptic, notbuying any of it. But the kids are
(43:42):
a little bit easier to pullalong because they're already kind
of half in that fantasy world.They have these big imaginations.
They're already. They'realready thinking about this.
No, 100%. We also learned thatthe Demogorgons are drawn to blood
and that they can crossbetween worlds. I still don't. Well,
(44:04):
I guess we'll find out laterin. In another season how they cross
between worlds. You know, wewould think, but the Demogorgons
like being drawn to blood.Early on, we learned that when blood
is spilled, it's like a beaconfor a Demogorgon. Like, they just
come to that blood and it'spulling it. Like, it pulls it across
dimensions. And it doesn'tjust lurk in the Upside down. Which
(44:27):
is fascinating because youwould think that, like you said,
there's like, beast inside theveil of shadows. It can push into
Hawkins when the conditionsare right. And that hunger makes
it a threat. So it feelsimmediate when also. And it feels
like it looks like it looksfor injury and. Or blood and. Or
(44:50):
vulnerability and that thensummons the monster. It feels like.
So I think that that's one.And the last thing I think that we
learned is that, man, it's atough one. Is that. Because I think
we're going to see a lot ofgrief throughout the show. But where
(45:11):
we find Hopper in thebeginning is crippled by grief. He's
crippled by the grief oflosing his daughter Sarah. And we
see Hopper's transformationslowly from, like, checked out cop.
Like, you know, he has, youknow, one of my favorite lines about
coffee ever, like, in thefirst season to a believer who we
(45:38):
root for, we root for himthrough the tragedy of the loss of
his daughter. There's thatscene where they're out in the woods
and they're looking for Will.And, you know, he just makes up a
lie to somebody so he doesn'teven have to talk about it, about
what, you know, what happenedto his daughter. And his grief initially
is like, he's trying to numbout. It makes him numb. He's numbing
(46:00):
out. And he's even numbing toJoyce's panic. He doesn't really
want to, like, accept whatJoyce is talking about because he
doesn't want to see. I thinkhe just doesn't want to see Joyce
go through what he's goingthrough. I think that's what drives
him. I think that's what wakeshim up, is like, oh, my God, I'm
seeing someone that I knowexperience that same level of loss,
even if it's under differentcircumstances. But once the conspiracy
(46:22):
starts to unravel, man.
And I also think the reason, Ithink that this is a thing we need
to remember about Hopper firstand foremost is that in a way, this
horrible thing that happens tothe Byers family Will going missing
almost forges a new familybecause Hopper is more of a father
(46:46):
to Will and Lonnie than. Imean, Will and Jonathan, than Lonnie
ever could be. And you see itvery early on when he talks to Jonathan
and he's like, I got this.Like, you can be a kid. I have got
this. I will find yourbrother. I promise you. And that
loss of Sarah, I think,follows Hopper through the entire
(47:07):
series. El eventually becomeshis daughter, and then El becomes
Will and Jonathan's sister.And it's like they have this initial
loss that drove him so much,ended up being part of the reason
that a whole new familyformed. Now him and Joyce haven't
made it official. And I swear,I swear to God, if I do not get an
(47:36):
official Joyce and Hopper, welove each other moment in this season,
I'm going to find the Duffersand I'm going to have mean words
for them. Okay, look, thesetwo need to get together. They're
already essentially a familyunit. He treats her kids like they're
his kids. He. The way that hewill fight for Will, and I'm assuming
(47:58):
Jonathan as well, and the waythat she just automatically takes
an L and adopts her whenHopper is. This is his family. And
that loss of Sarah, as tragicas it was, it couldn't be stopped.
But it kind of drives him tocreate a found family. And I think
that's truly beautiful.
And to. And to be fair, Ithink, like, it also does it for
(48:19):
Joyce, drives her to find,like, this whole situation. You saw
it when she first. Howcompassionate she was towards Elle
and how grateful she was forher risking herself to go find Will
in season one, in this season.And we'll talk more about it later
on. But I really love. I agreewith you. I love this family group.
(48:40):
So let's close out withtalking about what themes we liked.
What themes did we like anddid we see in. In this episode? In
this run of episodes, yeah.
So chapters one through four,if I have to pull out some themes,
there were two that kind ofstood out to me. One was the relationships
between mothers and children.Winona Ryder was obviously the top,
(49:05):
and I think still is the topbilled actress on the show. I think
her name appears. I think it'slike her and then David Harbour and
so on and so forth. Joyce wassuch a pivotal character to pull
us into the story right awaywith her urgency, her determination,
the fact that she believedherself in that very first scene
(49:28):
when her and Jonathan arerealizing that something has gone
terribly wrong. She says toJonathan, I know he's still here.
I can feel it. And the waythat everyone else is like, this
woman is nuts. And includingJonathan, who is like, okay, mom,
all right.
Yeah, he's.
You.
He's like, you got to stopthis, Mom. Like, this is not healthy.
(49:52):
Like, everyone thinks thiswoman is nuts, but it. It sets the
tone for the whole showbecause she believes right away,
she. She's a she. There's someissues with Joyce in the first season,
especially in her parentingfor Jonathan, who routinely disappears
for long stretches of time,and she has no idea where. But I'm
(50:14):
one. I think that's just,like, the nature of the 80s. But
in contrast to Mrs. Wheeler,who seems to keep a tight leash on
Nancy, you know, it's not thebest, but in. In a. Yeah, yeah.
So when you guys. You guys areout here asking, like, what happened
to, like, older millennialsand Gen X, that's what happened.
We were feral. We looked like.We did what we wanted to. We drank
from fire hoses. They did it.They had commercials at 10pm to see
(50:38):
if they knew to remind ourparents that we. A lot. We were alive
and existed, literally. Lookit up. There's a commercial that
asked them, it's 10pm do youknow where your children are? It's
a real thing.
That's so crazy that they hadto remind people to check on their
kids.
I know it's nuts, but.
But, you know, I think thatJoyce, Karen Wheeler, there's trying
(51:01):
really hard to be goodparents. Good mothers especially.
I don't think the dads havesuch a great showing in this first.
First few episodes. Lonnie isgarbage. Ted is completely aloof.
Hopper is spiraling like. ButJoyce and. And Karen really try to
(51:22):
connect to their children andhold on to them tightly. And I. I
think that's worth noting. It.It really.
Fathers at all fantasy shows,huh? Like, really bad. Really bad.
I mean, also, we didn't evenmention Brenner, who. You know, papa's
not the best dad either.
We got Asriel. I mean, who'swho? All right, you gotta choose
(51:44):
Adriel or Brenner. Who yougoing with? Boy, that's rough.
I think I'm wrong with Azrael because.
That'S saying a lot about.
Asriel would never. I don'tthink he would have ever made light.
We're talking about his darkmaterials, by the way, in case you
have no idea. He would havenever made Lyra, I think, do the
(52:06):
types of things that Brennermade El do.
Yeah, I'm with you.
I don't think he would anyway.Maybe. But I don't think so. Maybe
actually, they were both menof science.
I don't know if he had tobring down the Magisterium or he
had to, like, go against, youknow, Mega Metatron. He might. He
(52:28):
just might.
Yeah. I'm not. I. I don'tknow. I hope not.
Now, Mrs. Coulter, that'sdifferent story. All right, listen,
Mrs. Culture of a story. Talkabout mothers and children. Mrs.
Coulter, ride or die.
Yeah. Karen and Joyce are. Are10 times better than Mrs. Coulter
is. Moms just put that there.
Yes. 100. Way better. Like,are you kidding me? 10 times better.
(52:52):
Yeah.
So, yeah. I just want to notethat there's such a strong. A show
like this could have, like,de. Centered the adults immediately.
Like, immediately. And theydidn't. They. I mean, Joyce is still
a main character. KarenWheeler is not a main character,
but she's a character that weknow that has her own storyline that
(53:15):
we've gotten to know betterover the years. Like, and then, you
know, later we will meetTerry, who is Elle's mom, and that's
a different story of adifferent type of tragic motherhood.
So I just thought that thatcame out really strong in these first
few episodes as mothers tryingto protect their children, trying
to connect with them.
(53:37):
Yeah. And I think that, youknow, you mentioned two themes. I
think the other one would beisolation and communication. You
know, Will's super isolated inthe Upside Down. He's. He's trying
hard to send signals throughlights, through music. Elle is super
isolated by her trauma. Ithink she's isolated by the trauma.
(53:58):
I think she's isolated by herlimited speech. I think as she's.
As she's slowly learning newwords, new phrases, new ideas from
the. You know, from the party.
Friends don't lie.
Friends don't lie. Friends.
I love season one El so much.
(54:19):
Yeah, it's good. It's reallygood. And I think even Nancy, to
me, she feels isolated. Shedoesn't quite know how to fit in
the way she wants to. She'strying to make this move into, like,
you know, this relationship,maybe, but maybe it doesn't fit.
(54:39):
Maybe that's not the rightvibe for her. And when no one else
takes Barb's disappearanceseriously, I think she really feels
isolated because she caresabout her friend, and she knows that
it's important. So these earlychapters, I think, are setting up
some recurring themes thatwe're going to revisit, and I think
(55:00):
one of them is aboutcommunication and the need to reach
across barriers. I thinkthat's a big one.
Yeah. I mean, Will spends allof these episodes trying to reach
across dimensions.
Yeah.
Just to. Just to speak to hismom, you know, just to have his mom
come and talk to him, to beable to hear her voice. So that isolation
(55:25):
that he must have felt and theneeding to reach across, reaching
over those, through thosebarriers, to connect. Super important
in these first four chapters.I think it's one of the main themes
of this first season.
Yeah, totally agree. So thatwill do it for us on this first episode
(55:52):
covering Stranger Things. Youknow the drill. Check us out. Kinfolklore.com
Kinfolk Folklore pod onInstagram. Kinfolklore pod on TikTok.
Yeah, Twitter.
Yeah, we're not calling itthat other name. It's still Twitter
to us.
It's still Twitter. We'restill. We're still calling it Twitter.
(56:12):
And yeah, hit us up at our. Atour email kidfolklore gmail dot com.
We are so happy to be backhanging out with y' all inside the
Upside Down. Yeah, it's been aminute and so we're. We're happy
to be doing. Happy to be doingthis with you, cuz.
I'm delighted. I'm so happy tobe back.
So we'll see you next time.
(56:32):
Bye, everyone.
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