November 6, 2025 • 56 mins
Welcome back to Kinfolklore, where Andrea and Paul dive deep into the fantasy and sci-fi worlds we love. Few shows capture that blend of nostalgia, terror, and friendship quite like Stranger Things.
This episode, we’re rewinding all the way back to Hawkins, Indiana, Fall 1984. Where the tunnels run deep, Demo-dogs are on the move, and being a kid still means dealing with monsters — both human and otherwise. In preparation for the final season dropping this November, Andrea and Paul are rewatching every episode from the very beginning, continuing their coverage here with Season 2, Chapters 6-9
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to Kin Folklore.We're back in Hawkins in the fall
of 1984, where the tunnels rundeep. Demo dogs are on the move.
I'm Andrea.
I'm Paul.
And these final four chaptersof season two turn up the stakes.
Will's visions get a littlebit darker.
(00:22):
Elle's journey takes her farfrom home and unlikely friendships.
From the middle of all chaos.
Secrets break open, choicesare made, and all the fate of Hawkins
rests on.
The shoulders of 11.
Poor 11. In today's episode,we are covering chapter six through
nine. We'll talk aboutcreeping possession, heroic sacrifices.
(00:47):
Just a reminder, we're justfocusing on these episodes. However,
we will pull in context fromall four seasons of Stranger Things.
So spoiler warning, thispodcast is not spoiler free. We'll
be discussing all four seasonsof Stranger Things. One small caveat
is we will not be talkingabout Stranger Things. The first
(01:09):
shadow, which we'll do aseparate mini episode on because
not everyone has access to the play.
I don't retreat.
Ken Folklore will have adultcontent. March over to Jonathan's
room, and there will be amakeout session. That's gonna happen.
She's gonna do it. So turn upat Billie Hol Holiday, let the vodka
(01:31):
flow, and lie to your friendthat you're doing espionage with
about all that sexual tension.That's nothing like a little cloak
and dagger to get the juicesflowing. Let's go. We're back at
Hawkins. So the first episodewe're gonna talk about is episode
(01:54):
six and seven, the Spirit Spy.And also the Lost Sister. Two of
my favorites in this season,by the way. These are two of my.
The Lost Sister is really oneof your favorites. Nobody likes that
episode.
I, I don't know why.
I, I, I like it a lot more onrewatch. On rewatch, I appreciated
it. I remember the first timeI saw that. I was like, what? What
are we doing?
They don't like it because of what.
(02:15):
They thought they werepromised, which I'm sure we'll get
into.
But yeah, I, I mean, what theythink was gonna happen. But I, I
kind of dig it. I kind of diglike, I kind of dig like, I dig the
whole thing.
It's pretty cool.
So Hopper's pulled out of thetunnels. Thank God. That was the
close call. But it's clear thesituation is spiraling. Will's possession
(02:40):
is deepening and deepens evenfurther until the monster is using
him now as a spy on his ownfamily. Looking at his friends, figuring
out where they're moving.Nancy and Jonathan Hand Their evidence
over to Murray, who helps themspin it into a story. Maybe like
kind of give them somethingthat piecemealing it so the public
will believe it. Cause youknow, if you give them the real deal,
(03:03):
they'll start thinking oh.
That'S not true and hand wave it.
Meanwhile, Dustin and Steveattempt to wrangle dart. What? You
know, let's just. We're gonnatalk about this more. But what an
unlike. What a great pairing.Dustin and Steve.
This is like the best duo inthis entire show.
It's great.
I love it.
And that's saying a lotbecause I love Hopper and Joyce,
(03:24):
but they are by far the best.
Dude, they're great.
I love it.
So outside Hawkins, Ellefollows her own path to Chicago.
She's on the road where she meets.
Cali, another child from thelab. Cie urges her to embrace her
rage and her violence.
Embrace her chaos. Where haveyou heard this before? This.
Yennefer.
(03:44):
Yennefer, embrace your chaos.And Elle rejects a violent path,
not.
Wanting to do some of thethings that Callie was very ready
to do.
And she returns home with aclearer sense of self and the power
she.
Wants to claim on her own terms.
(04:05):
The demodogs storm Hawkinslab. Who could have seen that?
You don't say.
They're starving the lab,forcing a desperate escape. Bob becomes
an unexpected hero, guidingthe others out. But it costs him
his own life. Bob. So it's sosad how he goes too. With Will fully
(04:29):
compromised, Joyce andJonathan turn up the heat to burn
the monster out of him. WhileSteve takes charge of the kids. His.
His first moment is thebabysitter. Everything converges
in the finale when Hopperclears a path for Elle so that she
can confront the gate herself.Fueled by everything that she's learned.
(04:52):
The love, the pain, and thechoice, she seals the rift, cutting
the upside down hold onHawkins. And the season closes with
my favorite Stranger Thingsmoments of all time. The snowball.
Trying to reclaim a bit oftheir normal childhood. But the looming
(05:12):
presence of the shadow monsterOver Hawkins is still there. Their
story is far, far, far from over.
Like the under the sea dance.I love it. I love the snowball. It
makes me think of like back tothe future.
There's a really iconic momentalso from the Last of us, the second
game. That's a similar likeChristmas ball scene, like Christmas
(05:37):
party scene. That's alsoiconic. So re watching this, having
seen that, I was just like,oh, this is like. I don't know that
everything about the snowballreally is. It's great. Like the way
that the way that Nancy comesin and dances with Dustin because
she sees he's by himself. And,like, we know that Dustin always
(06:00):
had, like, a little tiny thingfor Nancy from season one, and she
gives him, like, a little bitmore confidence. The way that Steve
drives Dustin to the snowballis, like, one of my favorite things
that. Like, that. Thatfriendship wasn't just a crisis moment.
It's, like, a real friendship,100%. The way that Lucas and Max
(06:20):
finally admit they like eachother. And the same with Ellen. Mike.
I just.
No, it's a great.
It's a great moment.
It's one of the icon.
It's an iconic moment in theseries, for sure. And it's. You know,
we get those. Those momentsthat are really, like, wholesome.
And heartfelt and, like, nice.
In the midst of, like, all thechaos and the crazy and the terror,
(06:40):
it's always nice to get thoselittle, like, reprieves.
And one place we didn't getreprieve was losing a true legend.
A true legend. Bob Newby.
Let's.
Let's pour one out for thebest Radio Shack manager in Hawkins
and potentially one of thebest stepdads that a kid could ask
(07:01):
for. Bob Newby.
This goes out to all ourfallen homies.
Yo, Liquor.
Don't let the king get likethat, y'. All.
And more unnamed labemployees. I. No idea who those guys
(07:22):
are. They were just.
Again, Dr. Owen's entire teamjust gets gone. Like, the entire
team. He's the only survivor.
Yeah, it's. It's. It's crazy.
It's so crazy.
So, I mean, there's somenoteworthy things that.
That happen in this episode.
What do you want to start?
What do you want to talk about first?
(07:43):
I mean, I kind of like. I kindof like to unpack the. In. In going
in, like, what's the mostimportant to. What.
Yeah.
Is less important. I. I thinkthat takes us a little bit out of
order. But I do want to unpackthe episode, Chapter seven, the episode
with Kali and what happensthere with Elle. Because on rewatch,
(08:07):
I found that to be actually areally important episode that I.
I'm a little confused about.I've heard people say that they skip
it.
Yeah.
When they do their rewatch,and I'm like, you could do that.
But you miss the part of Ellebecoming, like, the L we know now.
Yeah.
Like, you miss the part ofElle becoming season three and season
(08:30):
four. L. The L that we meetbefore that episode, which I think
is chapter seven, is stillBrennan's tool.
Yeah.
She's still not sure how touse her powers. She kind of uses
them just in a way that otherpeople want her to use them. And
(08:53):
we see that in season one andseason two. Like, she either can't
control them in season twowhen she's fighting with Hopper,
or in season one, what we seeis she uses her powers in the lab
at Brennan's direction, andthen she uses them again to help
the group find Will. Butthat's kind of at Joyce and Hopper's
direction, right? She's stillbeing used almost as a tool. This
(09:15):
L that comes out of Chapter 7has new agency that I don't think
we've seen before and knowshow to channel her powers, so they're
not so uncontrollable anymore.And that's why I really like this
episode. I was kind of like,oh, this is kind of like Elle's superhero
origin story. It's the momentthat she realized that she can use
her powers for something for.For her, for what she wants to do.
(09:38):
Right. It would have been easyfor her to do exactly what Kali wanted
her to do, which is to getrevenge. But she decides in that
moment that's not who I am.You know? Like, she's not necessarily
judging Kali. I don't think inher, in her friends. I think that
she understands the vengeancethat they feel is, is like true misfits
(10:01):
and true outcast. Right? Butshe decides that that's not who she
wants to be. That, thatinstead of using her powers for her
own vengeance, what she'sgonna do is she's gonna use them
to save her friends in Hawkins.
Yeah, I, I, that's one of the.
Things I really like about it.I also think that we get a another
(10:26):
dimension, in my opinion, toshe has this crossroads around found
family and actual family,family of origin. Because, like it
or not, Kali is maybe notbiological, but like her sister,
like, and as a child, they aresisters, so. So she has, like, this.
(10:47):
This thing where she has theoption to go down this road that
you're talking about. And itmakes me think about, you know, one
of my favorite fantasy storiesof all time. And I think a lot of
people who listen to us knowthis, like, you know, Game of Thrones
where the Hound says, youknow, a man has to have a code, right?
And I think, like, why I saythat is because, like, we get to
(11:09):
start seeing Elle's code,that, like, she won't use her powers.
Like, we've seen her be, like,what they say. She's a killing machine.
She's in a net. And she won'tuse her powers to harm children.
She won't use her powers tojust go on a crime. Crime spree.
And just. That's pointlesswith no end because she's, like,
resentful and angry andbitter. And as you said, it shapes.
(11:30):
It gives us more context intowho. Who she is.
But I also think it. Andbesides showing what she won't do,
I guess I was struck by. I wasstruck by how far she.
Had come from the season where she.
Was saves, saves Mike andstill is.
(11:51):
Saying, I'm the monster. I'mthe monster. And now she's deciding
inside of herself. Even withthe memory of Papa, like, manipulation
of that of her mind from hersister, with Papa saying some of
the things to her, I justfound it really powerful that emotionally,
(12:12):
in the depth of her, she'sable to make a choice that shows,
at least for now, that she isnot the monster. Honestly, like,
that she. That many peoplewould believe her to be and that
she's even believed herself tobe for so long that she's actually
can make a choice that showsthat I. I'm. I have good inside of
me, you know?
Yeah. And I think Kali is kindof showing us who Elle could have
(12:34):
been if she didn't meet Mike.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I think if Elle'sstory. Let's just say Elle's story
is different. She gets out ofthe lab, she heads to. To Chicago.
She meets the same band ofpeople. She reconnects with Kali.
I think we have a totallydifferent person, a person who is
full of rage. And not to sayI'm not judging Kali, I actually
(12:56):
really empathize with her, andI understand her. But I think we've.
We meet Elle at a pivotalmoment when she meets people who
show her real love and careand compassion for others and. And,
yeah, they simulate family ina way that the kids in the lab never
would have been allowed to.She sees how much they'll fight for
(13:20):
each other, and it's notconditional, you know, they're not
fighting for each otherbecause they know that, like, if
I do this thing, then thisother person will do something for
me. They're fighting for eachother out of. Out of the pure love
and friendship that they havefor each other and out of the sense
of community that they'vebuilt in this town. Hawkins. And
(13:42):
so I. I really love thisepisode on second Watch. Now, we
have to acknowledge that atthe time, this episode felt really
jarring, and we all knew itwas. Was a backdoor Pilot. Like,
I think we all knew that theduffers were playing with what if
(14:03):
we could expand the world ofStranger Things. And. And even, like,
the music, it was veryjarring. It didn't feel like typical
Stranger Things. It did verymuch feel like a backdoor pilot.
I mean, what's the song playWhen Elle gets a makeover? It's a
Joan Jet song.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah. What is the. The name of that?
(14:25):
There is another song in therethat I do want to talk about, and
it's not as well a known song,but, like, what Joan jets song was
it?
I'm trying to remember. I'mlooking it up, because I don't remember,
but it's. It's one that Ireally like, so I don't know why
I'm blanking on it. What songdid you want to talk about? And I'll.
(14:47):
In the meantime, I'll. I'lltry to remember what this was.
Yeah.
She starts off with Bon JoviRunaway. That's where she. Like,
that's the. That's the. That'sthe. The song that she ends up with.
But the song I believe whenshe's Leaving is called. Is a song
I didn't really know. So Ilooked up the song called Birds Fly
(15:09):
and it's by. And the lyricsreally took me because the song kind
of talks about what it is thatshe's going through. And I was like,
wow. Because I heard some ofthe lyrics as she was right on the
bus leaving Chicago. And justsome of the things I wanted to talk
about was like, we are, weare, we are but your children Finding
(15:29):
our way around indecision weare, we are rather helpless Take
us forever A whisper to ascream Birds fly in the eye of the
faithless daughter Broken atbitter end Wasted sacrifice for a
new nirvana Nighttime sends uson our way and I was listening.
To, like, the emotion of the scene.
(15:51):
That was a moment of realdecision from indecision.
And it's also referencing thatpainful loss that I don't think,
because we don't.
Have all the context of the relationship.
That it felt like to, like, begoing towards family and going to
save her friends and goingtowards her new dad. I don't think
that she thinks it's.
Going to be a good outcome just.
(16:11):
From the musical choice thatit will.
Be a good outcome or a goodend for that group of people that
she just left behind based onwhere they were going, what they
were heading. And I thinkthere's a lot. There's a heaviness
to that.
And I just, I just thought itwas an interesting choice of music.
I think the Duffers havesignaled to us many times that the
music matters. And I think,like, this signaling of, like, a
faithless daughter broken atthe bitter end, you know, these ideas
(16:36):
of, like, where she was andwhere she's coming back from. Like,
she was, you know, her and.
Hopper still are going to have to.
Have that conversation thatthey eventually have about how he's
been treating her, how sheleft and ran away. And I think, like,
some of this is just like aprecursor and foreshadowing for that.
I love all. I mean, I 100%agree. I also noted I didn't actually
(16:59):
write it down, but I did alsonotice, note the lyrics of the song.
As she was leaving Chicago.The song that I was thinking of was,
is actually Dead End justice,which is by the Runaways. So not,
Not Joan Jett on her own, butyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dead End Justice.
She was in the Runaways. Ilove that song. Like, and you don't
hear it a lot anymore in popculture, but I totally agree with
(17:22):
you. As she's leaving Chicago,there's a real shift in mood of the
episode, but also I think areal shift in Elle. And I think the
music is the Duffers are onceagain using music to show, to give
us one of their themes. And athing that this show sometimes gets
(17:43):
criticism for is it does a lotof showing, not tell, telling, not
showing. And so they often useDustin or Mr. Clark or Murray to
explain something. Right. Thatis is otherwise not really explained.
(18:03):
But I think the way they usemusic is really important and was
there the whole time. We justmaybe weren't as clocked into it
until running up that hill.Yeah. And so I, I, I thought, first
of all, I think this is one ofthe best musical episodes in the
whole series. There's somereally great bangers from the 70s
and 80s in it that kind ofcapture the feeling of teenage rebellion.
(18:26):
Yeah.
And songs that, like I said, Ihadn't heard in ages. I went through
my, like, 80s music phase inthe early aughts. So it's been a
really long time. It's been areally long time. I haven't listened
to some of these songs in 20years, but I had walked away with
such different feelings thiswatch of Stranger Things. Maybe I
(18:49):
need to see season four toappreciate this episode. That said,
it is jarring because the wayit's sandwiched between six and eight,
it breaks up the momentum thatepisode six sets up. It plops you
into A whole other timeline, awhole other story with a whole other
(19:12):
set of characters that's alsorunning on an alternative timeline.
You know, I think that l. Ithink that Elle is with those kids
a little bit longer than this,longer than the space between the
action in episode six andepisode eight. So it kind of plays
(19:32):
of time a little bit, but itis jarring. It didn't quite fit into
the season, but I like itoverall as an episode. Like, sometimes
I wonder, had. Had they justlet six go into eight and then drop
this as, like a supplementalepisode or something, maybe it would
(19:52):
have worked better.
Do you think.
Do you think that we never seeeight again? Do you think that, do
you think that we ever. Do youthink that, that actually she comes
back into season five?
I don't think we see heragain. Yeah, like, if I'm being honest,
I think you're right. Andlooking from it, from a meta point
of view, I don't think we eversee it again. See her again. I don't
(20:13):
think we ever will referencethose other kids in the lab again.
If I'm looking at it through awriting point of view, very easily,
she could come back.
Yeah, I agree with that.
But, but, you know, when youI. Some of these episodes in season
five are supposed to be superlong, so there's not too much I can
(20:34):
say about having to thinkabout what, economizing your time
when you're writing a storylike this. I've heard that some of
these episodes are two hourslong or an hour and a half long,
so it's clear the Duffersweren't working with just like, oh,
we have eight episodes, and wecan't go beyond that. But they still
(20:55):
have a lot of story to tell.And so I think going back to season
two in this particular regardisn't helpful. I think in a lot of
ways, Kali played the role shewas supposed to play for Elle in
this main story, and weprobably won't see her again.
And an alternative.
I, I agree with you.
I tend to agree with you thatwe probably won't. But an alternative
telling where maybe it didhappen. Her ability could be one
(21:18):
of the abilities that theyneed to actually defeat Vecna and
the ability to be able topsychically change perception, make
people see what you want, tocontrol their mind, get into their
head, understand what's goingon, especially since a lot of this
has dealt with, which wetalked about our previous episode,
memory, and this idea of howall of this is connected to memories.
(21:42):
And I, I, I tend to believe.
That if they do introduce away to actually beat the Big Bad,
it won't be through the Forceand the powers that L has alone,
but that there'll be someother kind of magical power. And
that's where they could bringthis back, where it wouldn't just
be a random one off episode.So that. That's kind of from a writing
(22:02):
perspective, I think, like,that's where my brain would go, is
that she finds her way backthere after, like, fail, failing
at this mission that she'sbeen on to bring everybody to justice
and. And realizing that thetrue justice is coming there. And
maybe she sacrifices herself,maybe she comes and helps them. I
have no idea. But that's theonly place I could see it actually
playing out. She comes back toplay some part in the fight.
(22:24):
Yeah, I agree. But I think wewere probably done with exploring,
like, El's backstory withVecna and the lab. And so from a
writing point of view, thetime to introduce her back into the
story would have been when El.In season four, when El is reunited
with Brennan, maybe they couldhave written her into that. Maybe
(22:47):
Brennan found both Kali and Elbecause he needs both of them. Vecna.
But I think season five is,from the promos, is about Will, and
Will's relationship to theUpside down and Vecna. So it's not
impossible. But I think whatwe're gonna see is El is gonna be
(23:09):
back to superhero mode,fighting with all her might in season
five. I don't think we haveany more backstory for El to tell.
Yeah. And I mean, and there'sa real.
Argument, if we're justtalking about, from a story standpoint,
to really talk about this Kaliepisode, there's a real argument
that it's like. It's part ofthe hero's journey, you know, like.
(23:33):
Like, in the sense that ifwe're doing L's whole story arc that,
you know, as, you know, andthe hero's journey is. Is for those
who don't know, most peopledo. You know, you find it in Star
wars and most fantasy stories,but it's. It's literally like, you
know, you. The call to action,you set out on an adventure, you
have supernatural aid. Allthese different things. Right. That
(23:56):
Joseph Campbell kind ofidentified. That happens in a lot
of mythological stories in abook called the Hero With a Thousand
Faces. But what I thought wasinteresting is, like, supernatural
aid is exactly what Kali isbecause she empowers her and she
grows.
But the thing that is also part.
Of that hero's journey is thereturn home and returning with the
elixir.
(24:17):
So part of the hero's journey is.
To come home with, like, youreturn home from your journey with,
like, the solve for a problem.So maybe you could say that closing
the gate in the portal is thesolve for the problem, but is there
other things that may be fromthis journey out from Hawkins, to
see her mom, to meet Kali, todo all this? Since we're closing
down, as you said, we'reprobably moving away from her backstory
(24:38):
and the fact that she gainedduring this time period that will
play out in being the ultimatesave for the team. Do you think there's
anything that she gained fromthis from that standpoint?
Hard to say, because she'snot. We haven't seen the full story
yet. Right. I got to take itback to Game of Thrones, because
it's kind of like discoveringthat Valyrian steel or dragonglass
(25:00):
can kill the others. Thatultimately is an important find,
but it's not the main find.Right. It's not the thing. It's not
the thing that is going tosave everybody. And so I think I'm
up to believe that Will and Elare both going to be important in
(25:20):
the end game, and everybodywill play a role. Right. Because
that's what we've seen inseason three especially. I know we're
talking about season two, butin season three especially, we see
how important everybody's roleis and how they all come together.
And I think we'll see more ofthat in season five, but I think
(25:42):
our heavyweights are obviouslygoing to be Ellen, Will, and. I don't
know, you know? Yeah, we don'tknow how that's gonna. Right. And
we. And I wonder if Elle is ared herring for the big bad. Right?
Like, maybe Elle uses all ofthe power she has in her body, channels
(26:06):
all the emotions like Calitaught her, and it's still not good
enough, right, to. To destroyVecna, and then Will has to come
in with a save. So thisactually could be Will's hero's journey,
and Elle could be a more minorcharacter in that. We just don't
know yet.
I agree.
But, yeah, I think. I thinkthis episode was more important than
(26:28):
we gave it credit for at the time.
Normally it is.
And, yeah, I do think that welearned so much about how El's powers
work until they stop working.But we learned that, like, Elle can't
just make things happen.Right. She needs to channel her emotions,
(26:51):
especially the ones that kindof, like, burn heavy in her, like,
anger, frustration, Love, youknow, wanting to protect people.
She has to do all of that. Andwe see her do that when she closes
the gate. We see her do itagain in season three to her own
detriment. So I think it'spossible that this is all that she
(27:15):
gets from this episode. Butit's. It's also possible that there's
more to. There's more to see,for sure. And what if. What if a
way of bringing back Kali isactually not bringing back Kali at
all?
Yeah.
But having Kali's teachingsinfluence Will.
Yeah.
No, that's fair. I like that.
I could see that easily as well.
(27:37):
So, speaking of Will, he hasquite the season.
This is the back half of thisis tough on him and Joyce.
So, I mean, you know, let's.Let's be honest.
Joyce has become prettyprotective of him throughout the
beginning parts of the season.She's his fiercest protector, and
she wants to. She wants totake care of him.
But she's also, like. She'salso, like.
(27:59):
She hits a point where she's like.
Okay, I'm going to get this thing.
Out of my child.
And she's pretty relentless inhow she pursues it. I mean, to be
like, hey, let's turn the heatup. Jonathan can't even take it.
Jonathan is like. Like, he'sfighting her to, like, stop from
doing it, but it's.
It's.
He's torturing him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(28:20):
But I think she starts toseparate torturing Will from torturing
the Mind Flayer and. Or theShadow Monster, and in a way that
I don't think that a lot ofother people could. Like, she was
like, she. She's. She's ableto, like, look the pain.
In the eye and still gothrough with it. What do you think?
What do you think she findsthat resilience?
I think Joyce finds most ofher resilience. Well, first of all,
(28:43):
I think Joyce is a person whodoesn't give up. Yeah, she's not.
She just doesn't give up. ButI think she finds most of that resilience
in having fought for Willbefore in the past and won.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's gonna. She's gonna keepdoing it until she fails. And we
see that Joyce doesn't reallygive up on people.
(29:04):
I agree.
No, I totally agree. And Ithink that she realizes. I think
the. She realizes that theshort term kind of, like, risk of
his pain is worth thepossibility of, like, him being lost
forever. It's like, that's theone shot she's got. She's Got one
shot right at it. And that.That being it, she's going to go
for it.
(29:25):
And the timing has to beright. It's got to be. They gotta
drive out this monster. Andit's gotta be with enough time where
the gate is still closed. Soit hasn't like she. It's gotta. It's
gotta be now. And I think thatshe. Joyce, impressed me more with
(29:49):
every watch of the showbecause she. She doesn't give up.
She's a fighter to the veryend. And I don't think she would
give up on either of her kids.Yes, I do think she neglects Jonathan.
I just think that's a fact of.But I don't think I think of Jonathan.
I think Jonathan's a kid who'salways been okay. And so she's focused
on Will because I think sheunderstands that Will struggles more.
(30:13):
And I don't think it's justbecause Will struggles because of
his experience in the UpsideDown. I think she's aware that her
son is queer and it's the1980s, and that is not safe for him.
And so I think she is veryprotective of Will because she's
worried about him more so thanJonathan. But that said, I think
(30:34):
if Jonathan was in peril likethis, she would absolutely fight
for him too.
Yeah, I agree. I totallyagree. And I.
And I think, like, with this.
This is a deep. I don't know,I found, you know, people sometimes,
especially in movies, when weshow love, it's all of the, like,
you know, squishy stuff, thehappiness, the. It's like fight for
(30:55):
the love, fight for. This isnormally romantic love. Sometimes
it's bonds of greatfriendship. But I think the thing
that this captures, that wedon't often see when you're talking
about the love that a parenthas for their child or that the love
that a person has for somebodyis. That love sometimes is doing
the hard thing, and it's doingthe thing that sometimes you don't
want to say to somebody.Something. You say, hey, this. I
(31:18):
could easily, like, let thatjust go and not say it. You don't
have to say it brutally. Like,you don't have to burn somebody.
Out of a room like Joyce did,but you could easily go and be.
Like, hey, I'm just not gonnasay that or do that.
But it's like, you know, what people.
Sometimes characterize astough love.
But it really isn't aboutbeing tough more than it's about
her saying, you know what?This is me being honest. And it's
(31:38):
the Honesty in what she.
Does and authenticity ofreaching for this one chance she
has that I'm really moved byin this. This back half of the season.
So another kind of love,though, is this.
Two crazy kids, Nancy andJonathan, they don't even know they're
in love.
They have, like, a iconic runin these episodes because they paired
(32:03):
up in season one. Right. Buthere we are not just pairing up,
realizing there's something alittle bit more going on here. And
I love this for them. I don'tlove them as a couple. I don't like
Nancy, particularly withJonathan or with Steve, to be honest.
But I love their friendship,the friendship that underpins their
(32:27):
romantic relationship. Lovethat. Love that for them. They. They
show so much care for eachother and so much belief in each
other that I really enjoy it.So when Murray was like, come on.
Kids, what are you talkingabout here? What's going on? Yo.
Very. Murray was like, sure, Ihave a couch. Murray was. Murray
(32:48):
was, like, the best in this.This was great. It's a great.
So good. Especially because hedid the same thing to Joyce and Hopper.
And Joyce and Hopper had thesame. Like, what are you talking
about?
He's the just have sex.
We're not together.
He is definitely so good. He'sdefinitely the just have sex already
guy. He's definitely that guy.But he doesn't do it. Come on, let's
(33:09):
go. Let's do this.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we doing this? Like,but that, you know.
Well, maybe we're doing itbecause Nancy's technically still
with Steve.
Is she, though?
She's not. I mean, she is.
Yeah.
I think as far as, like,officially breaking up, I think her
and Steve's breakup is a veryteenage breakup. And it's.
(33:31):
You.
It's clear that Steve did nottake it as seriously.
No.
You know, he made a big fussabout it, and then he. He kind of
retreated. And I really. Can Ijust say, I really. I don't think
we talked about this in last.I really hate Steve's reaction to
all the stuff Nancy's goingthrough. Steve. Steve is, like, consistently
(33:53):
emotionally immature and then,like, reflects and realizes that
he messed up. But I love Nancyand Jonathan's run in these episodes.
These. They're just like.
Yeah.
They're really out herethinking that they're like Nancy
Drew and the Hardy Boys. Like,they're gonna get to the bottom of
this.
Oh, man.
That Nancy Drew. Nancy Drew.That's gonna be tough. That's gonna
(34:14):
be a tough look at.
Season three that I Said whatI said Nancy. Nancy really is out
here acting like she's onScooby Doo. Like, you can't solve
every. And they never askedfor help. Like, they never tell the
adults. No, they never tellthe adults and they never tell the
kids. So y' all just out hereby yourself doing dangerous stuff.
(34:39):
And then of course, it's gonnaall come to a head because everyone
else is affected byeverything. These two. But I love.
I love this.
This is the critique of the whole.
Show, what you just said. This.
This sums up, like, ourcritique. When we are offline talking
about this show, we oftenbring this up.
Where.
Where are all the adults tothese picnic? Like, this is crazy.
(35:01):
Like, they're around. They.They kind of caught that. They put
it in here and there, but Ijust feel like a lot of them are
asleep at the wheel. EvenHopper. Like, I'm gonna go down into
this tunnel and just leave mychild locked inside the house. This
is days that he's, like,leaving messages and never going
back. Like, what the hell is happening?
Crazy how he treats Elle likea grown woman. He's like, don't go
(35:22):
outside. It's dangerous. Butalso be alone for several days on
your own.
Craziness. Crazy.
Crazy.
I know that l. I know that. Lwas in the woods for a while by her
own, so I. I know that heknows that she's a survivor. But
it doesn't matter. Like, she'sstill a kid. She still needs. She
needs companionship. She needssomebody to be there. You should
(35:44):
still be tucking her in atnight like she's a kid.
Yeah. I just. I don't know.But you know what I really love?
I think the next thing I kindof, like, really love is as we talked
a little bit about it, theDustin and Steve relationship and
(36:05):
be still my heart. I just.
I really love that. Like,okay, so Steve is obviously having
a rough run.
He's like, you said, he's notbeing very responsive to. To Nancy
and what she's going through.He's kind of like, you know, doing
the Steve things, getting inhis own way.
(36:25):
And Dustin shows up and Dustinshows up to, like, kind of rescue
him a little bit. I think herescued. Even though Dustin needs
help when he shows up becausenobody else is responding to him,
he still is kind of like, hesees something in Steve. And I think
Dustin's belief in Steveactually. Actually is good for Steve
because Steve doesn't believein Steve the way Dustin believes
(36:48):
in Steve.
The way that Dustin and Stevelink up is so funny. Yeah. So Dustin
has just read Mr. Wheeler for film.
Yeah, yeah.
For no reason. No reason. Mr.Wheeler must be like, what the hell
is wrong with these kids?Like, Ted Wheeler is just minding
his own business, and Dustinis like, you're useless. You have
(37:11):
no information. Then Steve islike, I'm gonna come in with these
flowers and win back my girl.And Nancy is obviously not there
because she's off withJonathan. And Dustin is like, you're
good enough. Like, I. I needsome help. I need help. You're good
enough. And then they startthis iconic duo that is so good.
(37:32):
And, like, one of the things Ireally like about their relationship
is even though Dustin issignificantly younger than Steve,
Steve doesn't care that he'sstill, like, his older brother. That
is his. That's his friend. Hedoesn't care, like, that He. He doesn't
(37:53):
mind that he's a much youngerkid. He saw an opportunity to mentor
someone, and he took it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And he also does not let thesekids do stupid stuff on their own,
which they desperately needed.Like, they needed an adult in the
room to be like, stop.
Yeah. What are you guys doing?Like, yeah, crazy.
I, I. And I. And I mean, andwhen he. When he. When they go on
(38:14):
this mission to, like, lureout the Demogorgons, what a crazy,
crazy. What the hell were theythinking? Like, thank God. Thank
God. Things, like, went wherethey had to go back to the lab because,
like, man, Steve was toast. Itwas about to be a rap.
For all of them.
I mean, Steve. Steve beingwilling to help them with the Demodogs
(38:37):
and Dart A plus. But the waythat plan went sideways so quickly.
That plan went real sidewaysreal fast. Steve. Yeah. Like you
said, was almost a goner. Ilove. I love Max, though.
Oh, my gosh.
It's like a really solid runof action in this season. Even though
(39:01):
I don't always think thisseason has, like, the most intricate
plot, you know, I thinkthere's a lot of, like, still relationship
building and dynamic buildingin this season. The action in the
last few episodes is just sophenomenal. Like, you, like, I couldn't
stop watching it.
Yeah. I mean, it's fascinatingbecause, like, when.
I watched this season, thefirst two times I watched this season,
(39:26):
like, the first time the Voidstuff with Elle, like, moved me to,
like, tears. Like, I was like,I don't know.
I don't know what it was.
It was like.
And then the second time, Istill get choked up with the back
half of the season.
You know, I've watched itthree times.
Now, but it's still. It's justsomething about.
I think it is the relationship building.
(39:46):
It's like.
It's almost like a good.
Like that.
And I was.
I was assessing this. I waslike, why. Why am I so moved by this
season? Even though I don'tthink it's the.
Best season of the show, Like,I don't. I think it's a good season,
but not the best season of the show.
And I think that's what itcomes down to.
It's that you find out aboutwhat matters to people. You find
out about. There's like, real,like genuine bonds being formed.
(40:10):
And with the season previous,there was like the nostalgia piece.
This had more than justnostalgia. It started. It started
towards not only characterdevelopment, but character development
in reference to the othercharacters and who we're going to
be on this journey with andthe complications of that for the
(40:31):
duration. I mean, I'm surethere's new characters come in and
out, but these core charactersthat we care about, I think that's,
for me, it's a realfoundational season, even though
it wasn't the best.
Oh, I totally agree. I thinkthis season is also really important
to pair off Mike and Willbecause that's one of our iconic
(40:57):
duos. Right. They're notalways placed together in every action
sequence. But the way thatMike never leaves Will's side in
this season is insane. It'sjust incredibly beautiful. He just.
He won't leave him in thehospital. He. He unders. He fully
(41:18):
understands the danger of hisfriend being possessed. And he. He's
like, I'm. I'm gonna stay herewith you. So I think that that's
a really important duo aswell. We get a lot of good duos here.
We get Nancy and Jonathan kindof solid duo, where those two just
(41:42):
like, stay together for therest of the series. Like, I would
be shocked to see in seasonfive, I know things are not good
with them at the end of seasonfour, but I would shock to see in
season five if it's remixedtoo much. What I think we'll probably
see in season five is Robinand Steve, Joy and Nancy and Jonathan.
And all four of the older kidswill work together with more coordination
(42:06):
because now we've seen Nancyand Robin link up, and so I think
that we will.
A lot of brain power.
Probably see Nancy and Robin.
Oh, yeah, That's a lot likethey, they, they. They're solving
things. They're both very goodat, like taking and putting together
a puzzle or riddle.
I mean, Robin's decoding next season.
(42:27):
She's decoding. FreakingRussian. Right.
Like, so it's like, I'm like,wow, those two together. Yeah.
I'm looking forward to wherethat goes.
Yeah. No, there I think we seethe four older kids really work together,
which makes me a little tinysad that we maybe not won't get as
much Dustin and Steve. Butwe'll see.
Yeah, we'll see.
I mean, we'll see.
(42:48):
Dustin and Steve areabsolutely iconic in season three
together.
Yeah.
Season four is a little bitmore of a mixed bag because we have
Eddie Munson joins.
Yeah.
The fray again. Another. Imean, I can't wait to talk about
season three with you because,I mean, season four with you because
I. Eddie is like.
He's great.
(43:08):
One of my favorite StrangerThings character of all time. And
I think that's, like, I'm notalone in that. I think that's. I
think that's a pretty commontake. But I. I just think that this.
There's not that much, like,new magic introduced in this part
of this, the season. Welearned a lot of the things that
(43:30):
we needed to know in episodefive. Right. So there's not that
much new magic, but there's somuch depth to the relationships that
gets built here. And we alsolose one of the most iconic characters,
which is Bob Newby.
Yeah.
In this stretch. And it'sreally, really tough.
(43:53):
Tragic. Tragic hero. One of myfavorite scenes is when Hopper's
out here trying to be the heroagain. Eddie, just like, he's, like,
talking to him about basic andwriting something in basic. And Hopper's
like, so tell me, teach me.
And he's like, yeah, sure, Letme teach you a whole fucking computer
language. Like, right now,it's out of a closet. Okay, awesome.
(44:13):
How about.
He's like, is that. Is thathard? Bob is. Bob has, like, IT guy
crash out. It's so good. Ilove it.
Oh, it's so good. Oh, my God.So I. Yeah, I think Bob, you know,
sucks. It sucks to lose himbecause it looked as if he was going
to get away for like a splitsecond. And then, like, you lose
(44:33):
him right there. And the waythat it happens for.
Joyce, it sucks, you know, and trying.
To rescue, like, her son, she loses.
Her love, you know, she loses her.
Her partner. So that is.
That's a. You know, that's a.
It's a really rough thing. Andalso it draws a lot of parallels
from his own childhoodnightmare. About the clown, like,
(44:56):
right, like this.
Like, kind of like standingup, you know, being brave.
He's doing that in that moment.
You know what I mean?
And while. While he should.While it's. It is brave. It may not
have been the right.
He. It was misplaced a littlebit because he doesn't know the full
breadth of the danger. Like,he knows it's dangerous, but, like.
(45:18):
He'S not up to speed like the.
Rest of them are.
You know, he almost made it.He. If he hadn't paused, they probably
would have made it.
Agree. Why did they pause?
Because Sean Astin only agreedto do one season. I really. Honest
here. Here's the thing aboutBob and I. I've thought about this
(45:39):
a lot. Do. If Sean Aston sayshe can do 10 seasons of this show,
do they. Do they make him intoBob Newby, Joyce's boyfriend? I don't
think so, because I think theHopper and Joyce relationship is
what we're. We've beencareening towards this whole time.
I think if Sean Astin says,I'm. I can't wait to join the cast
(46:02):
of Stranger Things, theDuffers say, okay, now you're the
new principal of Hawkins orsomething like that. Like, they make
up a totally different rollfor him. The reason he stopped was
because Sean Astin was like,I'm only gonna do this one season.
All right, let me. Let me getmeta for a little while.
Let me just get meta for a second.
Do you think that they did this.
(46:22):
Because Samwise Ganji survives?
I don't think so. I think itwas more of a.
We have one season, 100%. Imean, like, it's such a good callback,
though. Think about it. Imean, this guy's in Goonies, you
know what I mean? Like, he'sin all of. He's in. He's in Goonies,
which is, like, one of thethings that I think that they kind
of reference a few times.
(46:43):
In this show, just in the friendships.
And how they go on thesemissions. So it's like. It's such
a.
And the Duffers said theywere, like, huge fans. Huge, huge
fans. Like, they were soexcited to have him on the show.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's great.
It's freaking great. I just.
I just. I had to.
I had to ask.
It was just for me, I'm like,did they.
Did they.
No. You probably read.
(47:03):
It's probably contracts.
So, I mean, the themes of thisis pretty. Pretty clear. It's tested
friendships, huge sacrifices.I think, you know, sacrifice is a.
Big, big theme of. Of thisseason, of this run, of the back
half of this season, you.
(47:24):
Know, you got to think about, like.
The different types ofsacrifice. So you have, like, Bob,
who gives his life Joyce, whoreally risked her.
Sanity and Will's life bytorturing Will. You know, Elle risked
her existence and sacrificesto some level, Elle could have hid
(47:49):
by going with this group of.
People in that episode thatwe've been talking about with Kali
and her friend.
She could have hid and nobodywould have found her Again, Hopper
wouldn't have found her.
She would have just been onthe run, and she would have been
like, oh, the girl withsuperpowers that disappeared, right?
And she would have had that.She would have had that person that
she's with who understandswhat she went through.
(48:10):
Right?
She sacrifices that for beingable to come back, but she also sacrifices
her life to her existence some way.
But she doesn't know whetherclosing the gate is gonna actually.
What that's gonna mean as faras what it is.
And, you know, Hop, he riskedexposure and sacrifices, exposure
with Elle. And obviously.
(48:34):
Nancy and Jonathan risk itall. They risk it all.
They risk it all for love. Youknow what I mean? They risk it all
for love and for thepossibility of getting Barb's story
out there. So I. I don't know.I think there's a lot of sacrifice.
I think.
I think it's a big, big one. Ithink my takeaway on that is.
(48:57):
That survival does requiresacrifice, that in order to persevere,
sometimes you must sacrificethings that you hold dear. It also
brings. It brings growth.
And I think the loss of Bob.
Like, you can see that itstrengthened Joyce's resolve to,
(49:20):
like, beat this thing. Like,she was not. He was. She was not
going to let him make thissacrifice in vain.
And so I think it's very clearin Elle also who redefines her whole.
Identity through thesacrifices, as we've spoken about
throughout the episode.
So it's both a wound and a.
Way to forge resilience and aforge in general. So I think. I think,
(49:45):
like, that's the power ofsacrifice in the story and in this
season, and. And that's a big,big theme and a takeaway for me.
How about you?
Yeah, I. I totally agree. Ithink. I sometimes wonder if. If
the gang knows that, how muchElle has really given up, because
(50:08):
I don't think Elle is alwaysopen about her experiences, but she.
She sacrifices a lot. I mean,she's almost died multiple times
in this struggle. And so Iwonder how much they are aware of
how she experiences all ofthis. I don't see a lot of people
(50:30):
spending a Lot of timechecking on Elle's emotional state.
So I. Sacrifice is definitelysomething that happened a lot in
the season, will continue tohappen. I mean, next up, Billy. Right.
There's gonna be anothersacrifice for me. This was a season
about, like, the test offriendships and how they form and
(50:53):
reform and how they.Especially as you're growing up,
friendships don't stay static.You. You've got new people joining
the party. Right. You gotfirst L and then Max. This. This
group of friends had beentogether since they were little kids.
Like, really think about that.Since they were about Erica's age
(51:16):
in season one, this has beenthe friend group. They went through
all of elementary schooltogether. And now here comes L in
season one, and then herecomes Max in season two, and things
get rough. Right. Dustin andLucas and Mike all are kind of struggling
with this new dynamic in thegroup. You have Nancy and Steve and
(51:41):
their constant coming togetherand falling apart. Coming together
and falling apart. Maybe.Maybe cre. Maybe understanding each
other differently. Right. Ithink Steve still loves Nancy. I
don't think that goesanywhere. Right. But I think Nancy
needed to learn how to respectSteve differently. And I think for
the second time, Steve isproving to Nancy that he's a real
(52:03):
one. And so I. I think Ialready mentioned Jonathan and Nancy
and how I love the foundationof their relationship, which is friendship.
And what I think is probablypretty unconditional love. Like,
those two will probably breakup, but I think they will still care
about each other and stillwant each other's best interests.
(52:24):
So I think so much of this isthis season was about friendships
falling apart and coming backtogether again with new understanding
and sometimes with new people.One of the things that I always think
about in growing up is thatwhen you. When you have, like, little
(52:45):
tiffs with your friends,especially in middle school, like,
you have a little tiff, andyou don't talk for, like, a week.
Sometimes that other friendwill sit at a new table at lunch,
or we'll go hang out withsomeone else, and then they will
bring a new person into thegroup. So a lot of my friends in
middle school and high schoolwere people that I never spoke to
on my own, that my otherfriends, like, maybe they needed
(53:07):
a break from us. Right. Theywere like, the click is annoying
me. And then they would bringthis new person into the group of
them. And that's what we'reseeing here. This constant, like,
bringing new people. So nowRobin is in the group in season three.
Right. Murray becomes part ofthe group, really, in season two,
even though He's. We learnabout him in season one. We, we have
(53:28):
Max. Elle comes weaves in andout. We talked about that last week.
Sort of how El and Will arethese two people who are never quite
settled in, in the group, butthey are part of the larger community.
And so friendships beingtested, but then reforming and getting
richer and more dynamic.That's one of the things that I took
(53:50):
away from season two.
I love it.
I feel the same way. Andspeaking of Murray, he's a, he's.
A sharp guy, cynical voice.He's. He's. I like him. He, I, I,
you know, like, please wraphim in bubble wrap. I don't know
if he makes it through seasonfive, but I would be.
Absolutely devastated ifsomething happened to Murray.
(54:12):
Me too.
I like him. I like him. He is.He is. He may frequent the QAnon
boards, but he's still.
Oh, that reminds me. I didn'tmake my tinfoil hat.
We gotta make a tinfoil hat.We need a tinfoil hat. Yeah, so.
Well, I think I might make atinfoil bonnet now that I've seen
one. I don't know if you guyshave seen this, but there's a guy
(54:33):
who is on basically all thesocial medias. I've seen him on Tick
Tock, Instagram and threads.Every week he's been releasing a
new set of tinfoil. And Ithink week two was bonnets and do
rags. So I was like, oh, Inever thought about it.
Took me out. I was like, yes,let's go. I have the tinfoil. Bought
(54:55):
it. It's great. But yeah, no,I, I love it. I love, I love Murray
for his tip.
We didn't have many, like, wedidn't have too much conspiracy theory
and speculation in this, thisseason. I will be back with more
of that season three. Seasonthree. There's a lot of kids.
Yes, there will be a lot. Ofcourse, of course we're getting the
Russians. We're gettingeverything going on.
(55:16):
So I'm into it.
I love it. Oh, man. So, yeah,as we close out season two of Stranger
Things, stick with us. We're.We're going all the way through the
series leading up to seasonfive much in anticipated finale season.
We just appreciate youlistening so much.
(55:38):
Please get in touch withus@kinfolkloregmail.com kinfolklore
pod on our socials, onInstagram and TikTok and yeah, we
will see you next time.
Bye, everyone. Sam.
Welcome back to Kin Folklore.We're back in Hawkins in the fall
of 1984, where the tunnels rundeep. Demo dogs are on the move.
I'm Andrea.
I'm Paul.
And these final four chaptersof season two turn up the stakes.
Will's visions get a littlebit darker.
(00:22):
Elle's journey takes her farfrom home and unlikely friendships.
From the middle of all chaos.
Secrets break open, choicesare made, and all the fate of Hawkins
rests on.
The shoulders of 11.
Poor 11. In today's episode,we are covering chapter six through
nine. We'll talk aboutcreeping possession, heroic sacrifices.
(00:47):
Just a reminder, we're justfocusing on these episodes. However,
we will pull in context fromall four seasons of Stranger Things.
So spoiler warning, thispodcast is not spoiler free. We'll
be discussing all four seasonsof Stranger Things. One small caveat
is we will not be talkingabout Stranger Things. The first
(01:09):
shadow, which we'll do aseparate mini episode on because
not everyone has access to the play.
I don't retreat.
Ken Folklore will have adultcontent. March over to Jonathan's
room, and there will be amakeout session. That's gonna happen.
She's gonna do it. So turn upat Billie Hol Holiday, let the vodka
(01:31):
flow, and lie to your friendthat you're doing espionage with
about all that sexual tension.That's nothing like a little cloak
and dagger to get the juicesflowing. Let's go. We're back at
Hawkins. So the first episodewe're gonna talk about is episode
(01:54):
six and seven, the Spirit Spy.And also the Lost Sister. Two of
my favorites in this season,by the way. These are two of my.
The Lost Sister is really oneof your favorites. Nobody likes that
episode.
I, I don't know why.
I, I, I like it a lot more onrewatch. On rewatch, I appreciated
it. I remember the first timeI saw that. I was like, what? What
are we doing?
They don't like it because of what.
(02:15):
They thought they werepromised, which I'm sure we'll get
into.
But yeah, I, I mean, what theythink was gonna happen. But I, I
kind of dig it. I kind of diglike, I kind of dig like, I dig the
whole thing.
It's pretty cool.
So Hopper's pulled out of thetunnels. Thank God. That was the
close call. But it's clear thesituation is spiraling. Will's possession
(02:40):
is deepening and deepens evenfurther until the monster is using
him now as a spy on his ownfamily. Looking at his friends, figuring
out where they're moving.Nancy and Jonathan Hand Their evidence
over to Murray, who helps themspin it into a story. Maybe like
kind of give them somethingthat piecemealing it so the public
will believe it. Cause youknow, if you give them the real deal,
(03:03):
they'll start thinking oh.
That'S not true and hand wave it.
Meanwhile, Dustin and Steveattempt to wrangle dart. What? You
know, let's just. We're gonnatalk about this more. But what an
unlike. What a great pairing.Dustin and Steve.
This is like the best duo inthis entire show.
It's great.
I love it.
And that's saying a lotbecause I love Hopper and Joyce,
(03:24):
but they are by far the best.
Dude, they're great.
I love it.
So outside Hawkins, Ellefollows her own path to Chicago.
She's on the road where she meets.
Cali, another child from thelab. Cie urges her to embrace her
rage and her violence.
Embrace her chaos. Where haveyou heard this before? This.
Yennefer.
(03:44):
Yennefer, embrace your chaos.And Elle rejects a violent path,
not.
Wanting to do some of thethings that Callie was very ready
to do.
And she returns home with aclearer sense of self and the power
she.
Wants to claim on her own terms.
(04:05):
The demodogs storm Hawkinslab. Who could have seen that?
You don't say.
They're starving the lab,forcing a desperate escape. Bob becomes
an unexpected hero, guidingthe others out. But it costs him
his own life. Bob. So it's sosad how he goes too. With Will fully
(04:29):
compromised, Joyce andJonathan turn up the heat to burn
the monster out of him. WhileSteve takes charge of the kids. His.
His first moment is thebabysitter. Everything converges
in the finale when Hopperclears a path for Elle so that she
can confront the gate herself.Fueled by everything that she's learned.
(04:52):
The love, the pain, and thechoice, she seals the rift, cutting
the upside down hold onHawkins. And the season closes with
my favorite Stranger Thingsmoments of all time. The snowball.
Trying to reclaim a bit oftheir normal childhood. But the looming
(05:12):
presence of the shadow monsterOver Hawkins is still there. Their
story is far, far, far from over.
Like the under the sea dance.I love it. I love the snowball. It
makes me think of like back tothe future.
There's a really iconic momentalso from the Last of us, the second
game. That's a similar likeChristmas ball scene, like Christmas
(05:37):
party scene. That's alsoiconic. So re watching this, having
seen that, I was just like,oh, this is like. I don't know that
everything about the snowballreally is. It's great. Like the way
that the way that Nancy comesin and dances with Dustin because
she sees he's by himself. And,like, we know that Dustin always
(06:00):
had, like, a little tiny thingfor Nancy from season one, and she
gives him, like, a little bitmore confidence. The way that Steve
drives Dustin to the snowballis, like, one of my favorite things
that. Like, that. Thatfriendship wasn't just a crisis moment.
It's, like, a real friendship,100%. The way that Lucas and Max
(06:20):
finally admit they like eachother. And the same with Ellen. Mike.
I just.
No, it's a great.
It's a great moment.
It's one of the icon.
It's an iconic moment in theseries, for sure. And it's. You know,
we get those. Those momentsthat are really, like, wholesome.
And heartfelt and, like, nice.
In the midst of, like, all thechaos and the crazy and the terror,
(06:40):
it's always nice to get thoselittle, like, reprieves.
And one place we didn't getreprieve was losing a true legend.
A true legend. Bob Newby.
Let's.
Let's pour one out for thebest Radio Shack manager in Hawkins
and potentially one of thebest stepdads that a kid could ask
(07:01):
for. Bob Newby.
This goes out to all ourfallen homies.
Yo, Liquor.
Don't let the king get likethat, y'. All.
And more unnamed labemployees. I. No idea who those guys
(07:22):
are. They were just.
Again, Dr. Owen's entire teamjust gets gone. Like, the entire
team. He's the only survivor.
Yeah, it's. It's. It's crazy.
It's so crazy.
So, I mean, there's somenoteworthy things that.
That happen in this episode.
What do you want to start?
What do you want to talk about first?
(07:43):
I mean, I kind of like. I kindof like to unpack the. In. In going
in, like, what's the mostimportant to. What.
Yeah.
Is less important. I. I thinkthat takes us a little bit out of
order. But I do want to unpackthe episode, Chapter seven, the episode
with Kali and what happensthere with Elle. Because on rewatch,
(08:07):
I found that to be actually areally important episode that I.
I'm a little confused about.I've heard people say that they skip
it.
Yeah.
When they do their rewatch,and I'm like, you could do that.
But you miss the part of Ellebecoming, like, the L we know now.
Yeah.
Like, you miss the part ofElle becoming season three and season
(08:30):
four. L. The L that we meetbefore that episode, which I think
is chapter seven, is stillBrennan's tool.
Yeah.
She's still not sure how touse her powers. She kind of uses
them just in a way that otherpeople want her to use them. And
(08:53):
we see that in season one andseason two. Like, she either can't
control them in season twowhen she's fighting with Hopper,
or in season one, what we seeis she uses her powers in the lab
at Brennan's direction, andthen she uses them again to help
the group find Will. Butthat's kind of at Joyce and Hopper's
direction, right? She's stillbeing used almost as a tool. This
(09:15):
L that comes out of Chapter 7has new agency that I don't think
we've seen before and knowshow to channel her powers, so they're
not so uncontrollable anymore.And that's why I really like this
episode. I was kind of like,oh, this is kind of like Elle's superhero
origin story. It's the momentthat she realized that she can use
her powers for something for.For her, for what she wants to do.
(09:38):
Right. It would have been easyfor her to do exactly what Kali wanted
her to do, which is to getrevenge. But she decides in that
moment that's not who I am.You know? Like, she's not necessarily
judging Kali. I don't think inher, in her friends. I think that
she understands the vengeancethat they feel is, is like true misfits
(10:01):
and true outcast. Right? Butshe decides that that's not who she
wants to be. That, thatinstead of using her powers for her
own vengeance, what she'sgonna do is she's gonna use them
to save her friends in Hawkins.
Yeah, I, I, that's one of the.
Things I really like about it.I also think that we get a another
(10:26):
dimension, in my opinion, toshe has this crossroads around found
family and actual family,family of origin. Because, like it
or not, Kali is maybe notbiological, but like her sister,
like, and as a child, they aresisters, so. So she has, like, this.
(10:47):
This thing where she has theoption to go down this road that
you're talking about. And itmakes me think about, you know, one
of my favorite fantasy storiesof all time. And I think a lot of
people who listen to us knowthis, like, you know, Game of Thrones
where the Hound says, youknow, a man has to have a code, right?
And I think, like, why I saythat is because, like, we get to
(11:09):
start seeing Elle's code,that, like, she won't use her powers.
Like, we've seen her be, like,what they say. She's a killing machine.
She's in a net. And she won'tuse her powers to harm children.
She won't use her powers tojust go on a crime. Crime spree.
And just. That's pointlesswith no end because she's, like,
resentful and angry andbitter. And as you said, it shapes.
(11:30):
It gives us more context intowho. Who she is.
But I also think it. Andbesides showing what she won't do,
I guess I was struck by. I wasstruck by how far she.
Had come from the season where she.
Was saves, saves Mike andstill is.
(11:51):
Saying, I'm the monster. I'mthe monster. And now she's deciding
inside of herself. Even withthe memory of Papa, like, manipulation
of that of her mind from hersister, with Papa saying some of
the things to her, I justfound it really powerful that emotionally,
(12:12):
in the depth of her, she'sable to make a choice that shows,
at least for now, that she isnot the monster. Honestly, like,
that she. That many peoplewould believe her to be and that
she's even believed herself tobe for so long that she's actually
can make a choice that showsthat I. I'm. I have good inside of
me, you know?
Yeah. And I think Kali is kindof showing us who Elle could have
(12:34):
been if she didn't meet Mike.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I think if Elle'sstory. Let's just say Elle's story
is different. She gets out ofthe lab, she heads to. To Chicago.
She meets the same band ofpeople. She reconnects with Kali.
I think we have a totallydifferent person, a person who is
full of rage. And not to sayI'm not judging Kali, I actually
(12:56):
really empathize with her, andI understand her. But I think we've.
We meet Elle at a pivotalmoment when she meets people who
show her real love and careand compassion for others and. And,
yeah, they simulate family ina way that the kids in the lab never
would have been allowed to.She sees how much they'll fight for
(13:20):
each other, and it's notconditional, you know, they're not
fighting for each otherbecause they know that, like, if
I do this thing, then thisother person will do something for
me. They're fighting for eachother out of. Out of the pure love
and friendship that they havefor each other and out of the sense
of community that they'vebuilt in this town. Hawkins. And
(13:42):
so I. I really love thisepisode on second Watch. Now, we
have to acknowledge that atthe time, this episode felt really
jarring, and we all knew itwas. Was a backdoor Pilot. Like,
I think we all knew that theduffers were playing with what if
(14:03):
we could expand the world ofStranger Things. And. And even, like,
the music, it was veryjarring. It didn't feel like typical
Stranger Things. It did verymuch feel like a backdoor pilot.
I mean, what's the song playWhen Elle gets a makeover? It's a
Joan Jet song.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah. What is the. The name of that?
(14:25):
There is another song in therethat I do want to talk about, and
it's not as well a known song,but, like, what Joan jets song was
it?
I'm trying to remember. I'mlooking it up, because I don't remember,
but it's. It's one that Ireally like, so I don't know why
I'm blanking on it. What songdid you want to talk about? And I'll.
(14:47):
In the meantime, I'll. I'lltry to remember what this was.
Yeah.
She starts off with Bon JoviRunaway. That's where she. Like,
that's the. That's the. That'sthe. The song that she ends up with.
But the song I believe whenshe's Leaving is called. Is a song
I didn't really know. So Ilooked up the song called Birds Fly
(15:09):
and it's by. And the lyricsreally took me because the song kind
of talks about what it is thatshe's going through. And I was like,
wow. Because I heard some ofthe lyrics as she was right on the
bus leaving Chicago. And justsome of the things I wanted to talk
about was like, we are, weare, we are but your children Finding
(15:29):
our way around indecision weare, we are rather helpless Take
us forever A whisper to ascream Birds fly in the eye of the
faithless daughter Broken atbitter end Wasted sacrifice for a
new nirvana Nighttime sends uson our way and I was listening.
To, like, the emotion of the scene.
(15:51):
That was a moment of realdecision from indecision.
And it's also referencing thatpainful loss that I don't think,
because we don't.
Have all the context of the relationship.
That it felt like to, like, begoing towards family and going to
save her friends and goingtowards her new dad. I don't think
that she thinks it's.
Going to be a good outcome just.
(16:11):
From the musical choice thatit will.
Be a good outcome or a goodend for that group of people that
she just left behind based onwhere they were going, what they
were heading. And I thinkthere's a lot. There's a heaviness
to that.
And I just, I just thought itwas an interesting choice of music.
I think the Duffers havesignaled to us many times that the
music matters. And I think,like, this signaling of, like, a
faithless daughter broken atthe bitter end, you know, these ideas
(16:36):
of, like, where she was andwhere she's coming back from. Like,
she was, you know, her and.
Hopper still are going to have to.
Have that conversation thatthey eventually have about how he's
been treating her, how sheleft and ran away. And I think, like,
some of this is just like aprecursor and foreshadowing for that.
I love all. I mean, I 100%agree. I also noted I didn't actually
(16:59):
write it down, but I did alsonotice, note the lyrics of the song.
As she was leaving Chicago.The song that I was thinking of was,
is actually Dead End justice,which is by the Runaways. So not,
Not Joan Jett on her own, butyeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dead End Justice.
She was in the Runaways. Ilove that song. Like, and you don't
hear it a lot anymore in popculture, but I totally agree with
(17:22):
you. As she's leaving Chicago,there's a real shift in mood of the
episode, but also I think areal shift in Elle. And I think the
music is the Duffers are onceagain using music to show, to give
us one of their themes. And athing that this show sometimes gets
(17:43):
criticism for is it does a lotof showing, not tell, telling, not
showing. And so they often useDustin or Mr. Clark or Murray to
explain something. Right. Thatis is otherwise not really explained.
(18:03):
But I think the way they usemusic is really important and was
there the whole time. We justmaybe weren't as clocked into it
until running up that hill.Yeah. And so I, I, I thought, first
of all, I think this is one ofthe best musical episodes in the
whole series. There's somereally great bangers from the 70s
and 80s in it that kind ofcapture the feeling of teenage rebellion.
(18:26):
Yeah.
And songs that, like I said, Ihadn't heard in ages. I went through
my, like, 80s music phase inthe early aughts. So it's been a
really long time. It's been areally long time. I haven't listened
to some of these songs in 20years, but I had walked away with
such different feelings thiswatch of Stranger Things. Maybe I
(18:49):
need to see season four toappreciate this episode. That said,
it is jarring because the wayit's sandwiched between six and eight,
it breaks up the momentum thatepisode six sets up. It plops you
into A whole other timeline, awhole other story with a whole other
(19:12):
set of characters that's alsorunning on an alternative timeline.
You know, I think that l. Ithink that Elle is with those kids
a little bit longer than this,longer than the space between the
action in episode six andepisode eight. So it kind of plays
(19:32):
of time a little bit, but itis jarring. It didn't quite fit into
the season, but I like itoverall as an episode. Like, sometimes
I wonder, had. Had they justlet six go into eight and then drop
this as, like a supplementalepisode or something, maybe it would
(19:52):
have worked better.
Do you think.
Do you think that we never seeeight again? Do you think that, do
you think that we ever. Do youthink that, that actually she comes
back into season five?
I don't think we see heragain. Yeah, like, if I'm being honest,
I think you're right. Andlooking from it, from a meta point
of view, I don't think we eversee it again. See her again. I don't
(20:13):
think we ever will referencethose other kids in the lab again.
If I'm looking at it through awriting point of view, very easily,
she could come back.
Yeah, I agree with that.
But, but, you know, when youI. Some of these episodes in season
five are supposed to be superlong, so there's not too much I can
(20:34):
say about having to thinkabout what, economizing your time
when you're writing a storylike this. I've heard that some of
these episodes are two hourslong or an hour and a half long,
so it's clear the Duffersweren't working with just like, oh,
we have eight episodes, and wecan't go beyond that. But they still
(20:55):
have a lot of story to tell.And so I think going back to season
two in this particular regardisn't helpful. I think in a lot of
ways, Kali played the role shewas supposed to play for Elle in
this main story, and weprobably won't see her again.
And an alternative.
I, I agree with you.
I tend to agree with you thatwe probably won't. But an alternative
telling where maybe it didhappen. Her ability could be one
(21:18):
of the abilities that theyneed to actually defeat Vecna and
the ability to be able topsychically change perception, make
people see what you want, tocontrol their mind, get into their
head, understand what's goingon, especially since a lot of this
has dealt with, which wetalked about our previous episode,
memory, and this idea of howall of this is connected to memories.
(21:42):
And I, I, I tend to believe.
That if they do introduce away to actually beat the Big Bad,
it won't be through the Forceand the powers that L has alone,
but that there'll be someother kind of magical power. And
that's where they could bringthis back, where it wouldn't just
be a random one off episode.So that. That's kind of from a writing
(22:02):
perspective, I think, like,that's where my brain would go, is
that she finds her way backthere after, like, fail, failing
at this mission that she'sbeen on to bring everybody to justice
and. And realizing that thetrue justice is coming there. And
maybe she sacrifices herself,maybe she comes and helps them. I
have no idea. But that's theonly place I could see it actually
playing out. She comes back toplay some part in the fight.
(22:24):
Yeah, I agree. But I think wewere probably done with exploring,
like, El's backstory withVecna and the lab. And so from a
writing point of view, thetime to introduce her back into the
story would have been when El.In season four, when El is reunited
with Brennan, maybe they couldhave written her into that. Maybe
(22:47):
Brennan found both Kali and Elbecause he needs both of them. Vecna.
But I think season five is,from the promos, is about Will, and
Will's relationship to theUpside down and Vecna. So it's not
impossible. But I think whatwe're gonna see is El is gonna be
(23:09):
back to superhero mode,fighting with all her might in season
five. I don't think we haveany more backstory for El to tell.
Yeah. And I mean, and there'sa real.
Argument, if we're justtalking about, from a story standpoint,
to really talk about this Kaliepisode, there's a real argument
that it's like. It's part ofthe hero's journey, you know, like.
(23:33):
Like, in the sense that ifwe're doing L's whole story arc that,
you know, as, you know, andthe hero's journey is. Is for those
who don't know, most peopledo. You know, you find it in Star
wars and most fantasy stories,but it's. It's literally like, you
know, you. The call to action,you set out on an adventure, you
have supernatural aid. Allthese different things. Right. That
(23:56):
Joseph Campbell kind ofidentified. That happens in a lot
of mythological stories in abook called the Hero With a Thousand
Faces. But what I thought wasinteresting is, like, supernatural
aid is exactly what Kali isbecause she empowers her and she
grows.
But the thing that is also part.
Of that hero's journey is thereturn home and returning with the
elixir.
(24:17):
So part of the hero's journey is.
To come home with, like, youreturn home from your journey with,
like, the solve for a problem.So maybe you could say that closing
the gate in the portal is thesolve for the problem, but is there
other things that may be fromthis journey out from Hawkins, to
see her mom, to meet Kali, todo all this? Since we're closing
down, as you said, we'reprobably moving away from her backstory
(24:38):
and the fact that she gainedduring this time period that will
play out in being the ultimatesave for the team. Do you think there's
anything that she gained fromthis from that standpoint?
Hard to say, because she'snot. We haven't seen the full story
yet. Right. I got to take itback to Game of Thrones, because
it's kind of like discoveringthat Valyrian steel or dragonglass
(25:00):
can kill the others. Thatultimately is an important find,
but it's not the main find.Right. It's not the thing. It's not
the thing that is going tosave everybody. And so I think I'm
up to believe that Will and Elare both going to be important in
(25:20):
the end game, and everybodywill play a role. Right. Because
that's what we've seen inseason three especially. I know we're
talking about season two, butin season three especially, we see
how important everybody's roleis and how they all come together.
And I think we'll see more ofthat in season five, but I think
(25:42):
our heavyweights are obviouslygoing to be Ellen, Will, and. I don't
know, you know? Yeah, we don'tknow how that's gonna. Right. And
we. And I wonder if Elle is ared herring for the big bad. Right?
Like, maybe Elle uses all ofthe power she has in her body, channels
(26:06):
all the emotions like Calitaught her, and it's still not good
enough, right, to. To destroyVecna, and then Will has to come
in with a save. So thisactually could be Will's hero's journey,
and Elle could be a more minorcharacter in that. We just don't
know yet.
I agree.
But, yeah, I think. I thinkthis episode was more important than
(26:28):
we gave it credit for at the time.
Normally it is.
And, yeah, I do think that welearned so much about how El's powers
work until they stop working.But we learned that, like, Elle can't
just make things happen.Right. She needs to channel her emotions,
(26:51):
especially the ones that kindof, like, burn heavy in her, like,
anger, frustration, Love, youknow, wanting to protect people.
She has to do all of that. Andwe see her do that when she closes
the gate. We see her do itagain in season three to her own
detriment. So I think it'spossible that this is all that she
(27:15):
gets from this episode. Butit's. It's also possible that there's
more to. There's more to see,for sure. And what if. What if a
way of bringing back Kali isactually not bringing back Kali at
all?
Yeah.
But having Kali's teachingsinfluence Will.
Yeah.
No, that's fair. I like that.
I could see that easily as well.
(27:37):
So, speaking of Will, he hasquite the season.
This is the back half of thisis tough on him and Joyce.
So, I mean, you know, let's.Let's be honest.
Joyce has become prettyprotective of him throughout the
beginning parts of the season.She's his fiercest protector, and
she wants to. She wants totake care of him.
But she's also, like. She'salso, like.
(27:59):
She hits a point where she's like.
Okay, I'm going to get this thing.
Out of my child.
And she's pretty relentless inhow she pursues it. I mean, to be
like, hey, let's turn the heatup. Jonathan can't even take it.
Jonathan is like. Like, he'sfighting her to, like, stop from
doing it, but it's.
It's.
He's torturing him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(28:20):
But I think she starts toseparate torturing Will from torturing
the Mind Flayer and. Or theShadow Monster, and in a way that
I don't think that a lot ofother people could. Like, she was
like, she. She's. She's ableto, like, look the pain.
In the eye and still gothrough with it. What do you think?
What do you think she findsthat resilience?
I think Joyce finds most ofher resilience. Well, first of all,
(28:43):
I think Joyce is a person whodoesn't give up. Yeah, she's not.
She just doesn't give up. ButI think she finds most of that resilience
in having fought for Willbefore in the past and won.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's gonna. She's gonna keepdoing it until she fails. And we
see that Joyce doesn't reallygive up on people.
(29:04):
I agree.
No, I totally agree. And Ithink that she realizes. I think
the. She realizes that theshort term kind of, like, risk of
his pain is worth thepossibility of, like, him being lost
forever. It's like, that's theone shot she's got. She's Got one
shot right at it. And that.That being it, she's going to go
for it.
(29:25):
And the timing has to beright. It's got to be. They gotta
drive out this monster. Andit's gotta be with enough time where
the gate is still closed. Soit hasn't like she. It's gotta. It's
gotta be now. And I think thatshe. Joyce, impressed me more with
(29:49):
every watch of the showbecause she. She doesn't give up.
She's a fighter to the veryend. And I don't think she would
give up on either of her kids.Yes, I do think she neglects Jonathan.
I just think that's a fact of.But I don't think I think of Jonathan.
I think Jonathan's a kid who'salways been okay. And so she's focused
on Will because I think sheunderstands that Will struggles more.
(30:13):
And I don't think it's justbecause Will struggles because of
his experience in the UpsideDown. I think she's aware that her
son is queer and it's the1980s, and that is not safe for him.
And so I think she is veryprotective of Will because she's
worried about him more so thanJonathan. But that said, I think
(30:34):
if Jonathan was in peril likethis, she would absolutely fight
for him too.
Yeah, I agree. I totallyagree. And I.
And I think, like, with this.
This is a deep. I don't know,I found, you know, people sometimes,
especially in movies, when weshow love, it's all of the, like,
you know, squishy stuff, thehappiness, the. It's like fight for
(30:55):
the love, fight for. This isnormally romantic love. Sometimes
it's bonds of greatfriendship. But I think the thing
that this captures, that wedon't often see when you're talking
about the love that a parenthas for their child or that the love
that a person has for somebodyis. That love sometimes is doing
the hard thing, and it's doingthe thing that sometimes you don't
want to say to somebody.Something. You say, hey, this. I
(31:18):
could easily, like, let thatjust go and not say it. You don't
have to say it brutally. Like,you don't have to burn somebody.
Out of a room like Joyce did,but you could easily go and be.
Like, hey, I'm just not gonnasay that or do that.
But it's like, you know, what people.
Sometimes characterize astough love.
But it really isn't aboutbeing tough more than it's about
her saying, you know what?This is me being honest. And it's
(31:38):
the Honesty in what she.
Does and authenticity ofreaching for this one chance she
has that I'm really moved byin this. This back half of the season.
So another kind of love,though, is this.
Two crazy kids, Nancy andJonathan, they don't even know they're
in love.
They have, like, a iconic runin these episodes because they paired
(32:03):
up in season one. Right. Buthere we are not just pairing up,
realizing there's something alittle bit more going on here. And
I love this for them. I don'tlove them as a couple. I don't like
Nancy, particularly withJonathan or with Steve, to be honest.
But I love their friendship,the friendship that underpins their
(32:27):
romantic relationship. Lovethat. Love that for them. They. They
show so much care for eachother and so much belief in each
other that I really enjoy it.So when Murray was like, come on.
Kids, what are you talkingabout here? What's going on? Yo.
Very. Murray was like, sure, Ihave a couch. Murray was. Murray
(32:48):
was, like, the best in this.This was great. It's a great.
So good. Especially because hedid the same thing to Joyce and Hopper.
And Joyce and Hopper had thesame. Like, what are you talking
about?
He's the just have sex.
We're not together.
He is definitely so good. He'sdefinitely the just have sex already
guy. He's definitely that guy.But he doesn't do it. Come on, let's
(33:09):
go. Let's do this.
Why are we doing this?
Why are we doing this? Like,but that, you know.
Well, maybe we're doing itbecause Nancy's technically still
with Steve.
Is she, though?
She's not. I mean, she is.
Yeah.
I think as far as, like,officially breaking up, I think her
and Steve's breakup is a veryteenage breakup. And it's.
(33:31):
You.
It's clear that Steve did nottake it as seriously.
No.
You know, he made a big fussabout it, and then he. He kind of
retreated. And I really. Can Ijust say, I really. I don't think
we talked about this in last.I really hate Steve's reaction to
all the stuff Nancy's goingthrough. Steve. Steve is, like, consistently
(33:53):
emotionally immature and then,like, reflects and realizes that
he messed up. But I love Nancyand Jonathan's run in these episodes.
These. They're just like.
Yeah.
They're really out herethinking that they're like Nancy
Drew and the Hardy Boys. Like,they're gonna get to the bottom of
this.
Oh, man.
That Nancy Drew. Nancy Drew.That's gonna be tough. That's gonna
(34:14):
be a tough look at.
Season three that I Said whatI said Nancy. Nancy really is out
here acting like she's onScooby Doo. Like, you can't solve
every. And they never askedfor help. Like, they never tell the
adults. No, they never tellthe adults and they never tell the
kids. So y' all just out hereby yourself doing dangerous stuff.
(34:39):
And then of course, it's gonnaall come to a head because everyone
else is affected byeverything. These two. But I love.
I love this.
This is the critique of the whole.
Show, what you just said. This.
This sums up, like, ourcritique. When we are offline talking
about this show, we oftenbring this up.
Where.
Where are all the adults tothese picnic? Like, this is crazy.
(35:01):
Like, they're around. They.They kind of caught that. They put
it in here and there, but Ijust feel like a lot of them are
asleep at the wheel. EvenHopper. Like, I'm gonna go down into
this tunnel and just leave mychild locked inside the house. This
is days that he's, like,leaving messages and never going
back. Like, what the hell is happening?
Crazy how he treats Elle likea grown woman. He's like, don't go
(35:22):
outside. It's dangerous. Butalso be alone for several days on
your own.
Craziness. Crazy.
Crazy.
I know that l. I know that. Lwas in the woods for a while by her
own, so I. I know that heknows that she's a survivor. But
it doesn't matter. Like, she'sstill a kid. She still needs. She
needs companionship. She needssomebody to be there. You should
(35:44):
still be tucking her in atnight like she's a kid.
Yeah. I just. I don't know.But you know what I really love?
I think the next thing I kindof, like, really love is as we talked
a little bit about it, theDustin and Steve relationship and
(36:05):
be still my heart. I just.
I really love that. Like,okay, so Steve is obviously having
a rough run.
He's like, you said, he's notbeing very responsive to. To Nancy
and what she's going through.He's kind of like, you know, doing
the Steve things, getting inhis own way.
(36:25):
And Dustin shows up and Dustinshows up to, like, kind of rescue
him a little bit. I think herescued. Even though Dustin needs
help when he shows up becausenobody else is responding to him,
he still is kind of like, hesees something in Steve. And I think
Dustin's belief in Steveactually. Actually is good for Steve
because Steve doesn't believein Steve the way Dustin believes
(36:48):
in Steve.
The way that Dustin and Stevelink up is so funny. Yeah. So Dustin
has just read Mr. Wheeler for film.
Yeah, yeah.
For no reason. No reason. Mr.Wheeler must be like, what the hell
is wrong with these kids?Like, Ted Wheeler is just minding
his own business, and Dustinis like, you're useless. You have
(37:11):
no information. Then Steve islike, I'm gonna come in with these
flowers and win back my girl.And Nancy is obviously not there
because she's off withJonathan. And Dustin is like, you're
good enough. Like, I. I needsome help. I need help. You're good
enough. And then they startthis iconic duo that is so good.
(37:32):
And, like, one of the things Ireally like about their relationship
is even though Dustin issignificantly younger than Steve,
Steve doesn't care that he'sstill, like, his older brother. That
is his. That's his friend. Hedoesn't care, like, that He. He doesn't
(37:53):
mind that he's a much youngerkid. He saw an opportunity to mentor
someone, and he took it.
Yeah. Yeah.
And he also does not let thesekids do stupid stuff on their own,
which they desperately needed.Like, they needed an adult in the
room to be like, stop.
Yeah. What are you guys doing?Like, yeah, crazy.
I, I. And I. And I mean, andwhen he. When he. When they go on
(38:14):
this mission to, like, lureout the Demogorgons, what a crazy,
crazy. What the hell were theythinking? Like, thank God. Thank
God. Things, like, went wherethey had to go back to the lab because,
like, man, Steve was toast. Itwas about to be a rap.
For all of them.
I mean, Steve. Steve beingwilling to help them with the Demodogs
(38:37):
and Dart A plus. But the waythat plan went sideways so quickly.
That plan went real sidewaysreal fast. Steve. Yeah. Like you
said, was almost a goner. Ilove. I love Max, though.
Oh, my gosh.
It's like a really solid runof action in this season. Even though
(39:01):
I don't always think thisseason has, like, the most intricate
plot, you know, I thinkthere's a lot of, like, still relationship
building and dynamic buildingin this season. The action in the
last few episodes is just sophenomenal. Like, you, like, I couldn't
stop watching it.
Yeah. I mean, it's fascinatingbecause, like, when.
I watched this season, thefirst two times I watched this season,
(39:26):
like, the first time the Voidstuff with Elle, like, moved me to,
like, tears. Like, I was like,I don't know.
I don't know what it was.
It was like.
And then the second time, Istill get choked up with the back
half of the season.
You know, I've watched itthree times.
Now, but it's still. It's justsomething about.
I think it is the relationship building.
(39:46):
It's like.
It's almost like a good.
Like that.
And I was.
I was assessing this. I waslike, why. Why am I so moved by this
season? Even though I don'tthink it's the.
Best season of the show, Like,I don't. I think it's a good season,
but not the best season of the show.
And I think that's what itcomes down to.
It's that you find out aboutwhat matters to people. You find
out about. There's like, real,like genuine bonds being formed.
(40:10):
And with the season previous,there was like the nostalgia piece.
This had more than justnostalgia. It started. It started
towards not only characterdevelopment, but character development
in reference to the othercharacters and who we're going to
be on this journey with andthe complications of that for the
(40:31):
duration. I mean, I'm surethere's new characters come in and
out, but these core charactersthat we care about, I think that's,
for me, it's a realfoundational season, even though
it wasn't the best.
Oh, I totally agree. I thinkthis season is also really important
to pair off Mike and Willbecause that's one of our iconic
(40:57):
duos. Right. They're notalways placed together in every action
sequence. But the way thatMike never leaves Will's side in
this season is insane. It'sjust incredibly beautiful. He just.
He won't leave him in thehospital. He. He unders. He fully
(41:18):
understands the danger of hisfriend being possessed. And he. He's
like, I'm. I'm gonna stay herewith you. So I think that that's
a really important duo aswell. We get a lot of good duos here.
We get Nancy and Jonathan kindof solid duo, where those two just
(41:42):
like, stay together for therest of the series. Like, I would
be shocked to see in seasonfive, I know things are not good
with them at the end of seasonfour, but I would shock to see in
season five if it's remixedtoo much. What I think we'll probably
see in season five is Robinand Steve, Joy and Nancy and Jonathan.
And all four of the older kidswill work together with more coordination
(42:06):
because now we've seen Nancyand Robin link up, and so I think
that we will.
A lot of brain power.
Probably see Nancy and Robin.
Oh, yeah, That's a lot likethey, they, they. They're solving
things. They're both very goodat, like taking and putting together
a puzzle or riddle.
I mean, Robin's decoding next season.
(42:27):
She's decoding. FreakingRussian. Right.
Like, so it's like, I'm like,wow, those two together. Yeah.
I'm looking forward to wherethat goes.
Yeah. No, there I think we seethe four older kids really work together,
which makes me a little tinysad that we maybe not won't get as
much Dustin and Steve. Butwe'll see.
Yeah, we'll see.
I mean, we'll see.
(42:48):
Dustin and Steve areabsolutely iconic in season three
together.
Yeah.
Season four is a little bitmore of a mixed bag because we have
Eddie Munson joins.
Yeah.
The fray again. Another. Imean, I can't wait to talk about
season three with you because,I mean, season four with you because
I. Eddie is like.
He's great.
(43:08):
One of my favorite StrangerThings character of all time. And
I think that's, like, I'm notalone in that. I think that's. I
think that's a pretty commontake. But I. I just think that this.
There's not that much, like,new magic introduced in this part
of this, the season. Welearned a lot of the things that
(43:30):
we needed to know in episodefive. Right. So there's not that
much new magic, but there's somuch depth to the relationships that
gets built here. And we alsolose one of the most iconic characters,
which is Bob Newby.
Yeah.
In this stretch. And it'sreally, really tough.
(43:53):
Tragic. Tragic hero. One of myfavorite scenes is when Hopper's
out here trying to be the heroagain. Eddie, just like, he's, like,
talking to him about basic andwriting something in basic. And Hopper's
like, so tell me, teach me.
And he's like, yeah, sure, Letme teach you a whole fucking computer
language. Like, right now,it's out of a closet. Okay, awesome.
(44:13):
How about.
He's like, is that. Is thathard? Bob is. Bob has, like, IT guy
crash out. It's so good. Ilove it.
Oh, it's so good. Oh, my God.So I. Yeah, I think Bob, you know,
sucks. It sucks to lose himbecause it looked as if he was going
to get away for like a splitsecond. And then, like, you lose
(44:33):
him right there. And the waythat it happens for.
Joyce, it sucks, you know, and trying.
To rescue, like, her son, she loses.
Her love, you know, she loses her.
Her partner. So that is.
That's a. You know, that's a.
It's a really rough thing. Andalso it draws a lot of parallels
from his own childhoodnightmare. About the clown, like,
(44:56):
right, like this.
Like, kind of like standingup, you know, being brave.
He's doing that in that moment.
You know what I mean?
And while. While he should.While it's. It is brave. It may not
have been the right.
He. It was misplaced a littlebit because he doesn't know the full
breadth of the danger. Like,he knows it's dangerous, but, like.
(45:18):
He'S not up to speed like the.
Rest of them are.
You know, he almost made it.He. If he hadn't paused, they probably
would have made it.
Agree. Why did they pause?
Because Sean Astin only agreedto do one season. I really. Honest
here. Here's the thing aboutBob and I. I've thought about this
(45:39):
a lot. Do. If Sean Aston sayshe can do 10 seasons of this show,
do they. Do they make him intoBob Newby, Joyce's boyfriend? I don't
think so, because I think theHopper and Joyce relationship is
what we're. We've beencareening towards this whole time.
I think if Sean Astin says,I'm. I can't wait to join the cast
(46:02):
of Stranger Things, theDuffers say, okay, now you're the
new principal of Hawkins orsomething like that. Like, they make
up a totally different rollfor him. The reason he stopped was
because Sean Astin was like,I'm only gonna do this one season.
All right, let me. Let me getmeta for a little while.
Let me just get meta for a second.
Do you think that they did this.
(46:22):
Because Samwise Ganji survives?
I don't think so. I think itwas more of a.
We have one season, 100%. Imean, like, it's such a good callback,
though. Think about it. Imean, this guy's in Goonies, you
know what I mean? Like, he'sin all of. He's in. He's in Goonies,
which is, like, one of thethings that I think that they kind
of reference a few times.
(46:43):
In this show, just in the friendships.
And how they go on thesemissions. So it's like. It's such
a.
And the Duffers said theywere, like, huge fans. Huge, huge
fans. Like, they were soexcited to have him on the show.
Yeah.
So, I mean, it's great.
It's freaking great. I just.
I just. I had to.
I had to ask.
It was just for me, I'm like,did they.
Did they.
No. You probably read.
(47:03):
It's probably contracts.
So, I mean, the themes of thisis pretty. Pretty clear. It's tested
friendships, huge sacrifices.I think, you know, sacrifice is a.
Big, big theme of. Of thisseason, of this run, of the back
half of this season, you.
(47:24):
Know, you got to think about, like.
The different types ofsacrifice. So you have, like, Bob,
who gives his life Joyce, whoreally risked her.
Sanity and Will's life bytorturing Will. You know, Elle risked
her existence and sacrificesto some level, Elle could have hid
(47:49):
by going with this group of.
People in that episode thatwe've been talking about with Kali
and her friend.
She could have hid and nobodywould have found her Again, Hopper
wouldn't have found her.
She would have just been onthe run, and she would have been
like, oh, the girl withsuperpowers that disappeared, right?
And she would have had that.She would have had that person that
she's with who understandswhat she went through.
(48:10):
Right?
She sacrifices that for beingable to come back, but she also sacrifices
her life to her existence some way.
But she doesn't know whetherclosing the gate is gonna actually.
What that's gonna mean as faras what it is.
And, you know, Hop, he riskedexposure and sacrifices, exposure
with Elle. And obviously.
(48:34):
Nancy and Jonathan risk itall. They risk it all.
They risk it all for love. Youknow what I mean? They risk it all
for love and for thepossibility of getting Barb's story
out there. So I. I don't know.I think there's a lot of sacrifice.
I think.
I think it's a big, big one. Ithink my takeaway on that is.
(48:57):
That survival does requiresacrifice, that in order to persevere,
sometimes you must sacrificethings that you hold dear. It also
brings. It brings growth.
And I think the loss of Bob.
Like, you can see that itstrengthened Joyce's resolve to,
(49:20):
like, beat this thing. Like,she was not. He was. She was not
going to let him make thissacrifice in vain.
And so I think it's very clearin Elle also who redefines her whole.
Identity through thesacrifices, as we've spoken about
throughout the episode.
So it's both a wound and a.
Way to forge resilience and aforge in general. So I think. I think,
(49:45):
like, that's the power ofsacrifice in the story and in this
season, and. And that's a big,big theme and a takeaway for me.
How about you?
Yeah, I. I totally agree. Ithink. I sometimes wonder if. If
the gang knows that, how muchElle has really given up, because
(50:08):
I don't think Elle is alwaysopen about her experiences, but she.
She sacrifices a lot. I mean,she's almost died multiple times
in this struggle. And so Iwonder how much they are aware of
how she experiences all ofthis. I don't see a lot of people
(50:30):
spending a Lot of timechecking on Elle's emotional state.
So I. Sacrifice is definitelysomething that happened a lot in
the season, will continue tohappen. I mean, next up, Billy. Right.
There's gonna be anothersacrifice for me. This was a season
about, like, the test offriendships and how they form and
(50:53):
reform and how they.Especially as you're growing up,
friendships don't stay static.You. You've got new people joining
the party. Right. You gotfirst L and then Max. This. This
group of friends had beentogether since they were little kids.
Like, really think about that.Since they were about Erica's age
(51:16):
in season one, this has beenthe friend group. They went through
all of elementary schooltogether. And now here comes L in
season one, and then herecomes Max in season two, and things
get rough. Right. Dustin andLucas and Mike all are kind of struggling
with this new dynamic in thegroup. You have Nancy and Steve and
(51:41):
their constant coming togetherand falling apart. Coming together
and falling apart. Maybe.Maybe cre. Maybe understanding each
other differently. Right. Ithink Steve still loves Nancy. I
don't think that goesanywhere. Right. But I think Nancy
needed to learn how to respectSteve differently. And I think for
the second time, Steve isproving to Nancy that he's a real
(52:03):
one. And so I. I think Ialready mentioned Jonathan and Nancy
and how I love the foundationof their relationship, which is friendship.
And what I think is probablypretty unconditional love. Like,
those two will probably breakup, but I think they will still care
about each other and stillwant each other's best interests.
(52:24):
So I think so much of this isthis season was about friendships
falling apart and coming backtogether again with new understanding
and sometimes with new people.One of the things that I always think
about in growing up is thatwhen you. When you have, like, little
(52:45):
tiffs with your friends,especially in middle school, like,
you have a little tiff, andyou don't talk for, like, a week.
Sometimes that other friendwill sit at a new table at lunch,
or we'll go hang out withsomeone else, and then they will
bring a new person into thegroup. So a lot of my friends in
middle school and high schoolwere people that I never spoke to
on my own, that my otherfriends, like, maybe they needed
(53:07):
a break from us. Right. Theywere like, the click is annoying
me. And then they would bringthis new person into the group of
them. And that's what we'reseeing here. This constant, like,
bringing new people. So nowRobin is in the group in season three.
Right. Murray becomes part ofthe group, really, in season two,
even though He's. We learnabout him in season one. We, we have
(53:28):
Max. Elle comes weaves in andout. We talked about that last week.
Sort of how El and Will arethese two people who are never quite
settled in, in the group, butthey are part of the larger community.
And so friendships beingtested, but then reforming and getting
richer and more dynamic.That's one of the things that I took
(53:50):
away from season two.
I love it.
I feel the same way. Andspeaking of Murray, he's a, he's.
A sharp guy, cynical voice.He's. He's. I like him. He, I, I,
you know, like, please wraphim in bubble wrap. I don't know
if he makes it through seasonfive, but I would be.
Absolutely devastated ifsomething happened to Murray.
(54:12):
Me too.
I like him. I like him. He is.He is. He may frequent the QAnon
boards, but he's still.
Oh, that reminds me. I didn'tmake my tinfoil hat.
We gotta make a tinfoil hat.We need a tinfoil hat. Yeah, so.
Well, I think I might make atinfoil bonnet now that I've seen
one. I don't know if you guyshave seen this, but there's a guy
(54:33):
who is on basically all thesocial medias. I've seen him on Tick
Tock, Instagram and threads.Every week he's been releasing a
new set of tinfoil. And Ithink week two was bonnets and do
rags. So I was like, oh, Inever thought about it.
Took me out. I was like, yes,let's go. I have the tinfoil. Bought
(54:55):
it. It's great. But yeah, no,I, I love it. I love, I love Murray
for his tip.
We didn't have many, like, wedidn't have too much conspiracy theory
and speculation in this, thisseason. I will be back with more
of that season three. Seasonthree. There's a lot of kids.
Yes, there will be a lot. Ofcourse, of course we're getting the
Russians. We're gettingeverything going on.
(55:16):
So I'm into it.
I love it. Oh, man. So, yeah,as we close out season two of Stranger
Things, stick with us. We're.We're going all the way through the
series leading up to seasonfive much in anticipated finale season.
We just appreciate youlistening so much.
(55:38):
Please get in touch withus@kinfolkloregmail.com kinfolklore
pod on our socials, onInstagram and TikTok and yeah, we
will see you next time.
Bye, everyone. Sam.
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