July 30, 2024 • 48 mins
Welcome back to the Lecker Book Club. Every month I’ll pick a newly released food related book and talk to the author about the process of writing it. I’ll also be writing about it on Substack and Patreon. Join me there as well!
This month: London Feeds Itself, edited by Jonathan Nunn. This episode features Kurdish chef and writer, Melek Erdal, one of the contributors to the book, reflecting on the essay she wrote, The Warehouse, and on London and Kurdish food in general.
You can find a transcript for this episode at leckerpodcast.com.
The second edition of London Feeds Itself is out now, published by Open City and Fitzcarraldo. Find all of the Lecker Book Club reads on my Bookshop.org list.
Support Lecker by becoming a paid subscriber on Patreon, Apple Podcasts and now on Substack.
Music is by Blue Dot Sessions.
This month: London Feeds Itself, edited by Jonathan Nunn. This episode features Kurdish chef and writer, Melek Erdal, one of the contributors to the book, reflecting on the essay she wrote, The Warehouse, and on London and Kurdish food in general.
You can find a transcript for this episode at leckerpodcast.com.
The second edition of London Feeds Itself is out now, published by Open City and Fitzcarraldo. Find all of the Lecker Book Club reads on my Bookshop.org list.
Support Lecker by becoming a paid subscriber on Patreon, Apple Podcasts and now on Substack.
Music is by Blue Dot Sessions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lucy (00:02):
This is Lecker.
I'm Lucy Dearlove.
This is July's installmentof the Lecker book club.
Each month an episode highlightsa recent food related publication
through an interview with theperson responsible for writing it.
This one is a little bit different though.
Firstly, because this book isn'ttechnically fully recently published.
(00:25):
London Feeds Itself was firstpublished back in September 22, a
collaboration between Vittles founderand co editor Jonathan Nunn and the
architectural charity Open City.
Through 25 essays by differentwriters, including Jeremy Corbyn on
his allotment and Claudia Roden onHampstead Garden suburb, threaded
together by notes on restaurants,areas and communities by Jonathan.
(00:48):
He explores eating and cooking andbeing fed and feeding within the city.
The first edition, with its strikingpurple cover, library book esque
perspex dust cover, and pull outposter of a huge, beautiful collage
map of London by Anna Hodgson and HarryDerby, sold out almost immediately.
But anyone who missed out would havebeen happy to hear the news of version 2.
(01:11):
0, published in collaboration withFitzcarraldo in March this year,
with a new cover and two new essays.
The idea of centering the architectureof London's spaces for eating and
cooking is unusual in food writing,restaurant writing in particular,
where food and stories from thetable can exist nakedly on the plate.
Divorced of any physicalor emotional context.
(01:34):
Instead, London Feeds Itself embedseating as part of the city's physical
culture, and so expresses withoutambiguity how the politics, geography
and economics of life affect what we eatand those who produce and cook it for us.
As the back cover of the first edition putit, this book shows that the true centres
of London food culture can be found inever more creative uses of space, eked
(01:58):
out by the people who make up the city.
This is particularly evident inMelek Erdal's essay, The Warehouse.
Hidden people, hidden spaces, it begins.
In it, Melek, a Kurdish chef, writerand storyteller, Born in Istanbul and
who moved with her parents to Londonas a child, describes the physical
(02:20):
shock of the experience she hadaccidentally going back to one of the
northeast London warehouses where herparents worked in textile factories.
Melek (02:27):
It felt so surreal sitting there and I think I felt
even more resentful about it.
having a flapjack when I knew theincredible meals that happened in that
space, in that secret space, you know?
Lucy (02:42):
Honestly, I've wanted to interview Melek for ages, having
loved her writing for a long time.
Her poetic, meandering recipecolumn in Vittles is something I
drop everything to read every time.
And so I jumped at the chance tohave breakfast at her house and
talk about her London Feeds Itselfessay, and also more broadly about
London and about Kurdish food.
Melek (03:02):
There's absolutely no way you're coming to, like, to my home
and not being fed, that's like,absolutely ridiculous and rude.
You're coming to my home for thefirst time, and you've schlepped
all the way from, like, not evenLewisham, like, further away from
that, actually, when we think about it.
Lucy (03:20):
Yeah, I mean, technically, but, you know, I'm glad to be here.
Melek (03:24):
Of course I'm going to feed you, of course.
Right,
regular tea?
Lucy (03:32):
Yes, please.
Like, Fiji tea?
You're welcome.
Pidgey tips.
What was that?
Pidgey tips?
Yeah, great.
Perfect.
Melek (03:36):
Great.
So, I went to Green Lanes, youknow, my favourite, uh, street.
I love going there for like,me time on the weekend.
So I have like these favouritegrocers for different things.
So like, every grocer, uh,has something that I love.
So there's Doslar Supermarket.
They get like their spring onionsfrom allotments and their cucumbers.
(03:59):
So I go there for that.
Lucy (04:01):
Cucumbers as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Cucumbers are your thing.
They're my thing.
Melek (04:04):
Yeah.
Like what I call regular size cucumbers,but what you like in the UK might not, you
in the UK, I'm from the UK, but here inthe UK you might consider mini cucumbers.
For me, It's regular.
They're normal cucumbers.
Because it's so weird toget one giant cucumber.
It's so weird.
(04:25):
You don't get one massive.
You get loads of like regular sizedcucumber, which tastes more amazing.
I was gonna say,
Lucy (04:31):
they have more flavor, don't they, those little
Melek (04:33):
ones?
They do.
They have more flavor.
You can just eat it without peeling it,like, you know, just, just grab it and go.
It's a very, very Kurdish thing.
Iranians love it too.
Often, it's those sizedcucumbers are called.
Iranian cucumbers for
Music (04:47):
some reason.
Melek (04:48):
But yeah, so I got, uh, cucumbers and spring onions from there, and
then I got rocket from Hello Haringey.
Nice.
And then I went to Yashan Halim,which is like the old, like the
longest running grocer in Greenlands.
They're a Turkish Cypriot place, and I gotsome tomatoes and some black olives from
(05:09):
there, and I got this special bread calledSaman bread, which I'm gonna show you.
So basically I wanted to do atraditional breakfast that's just loads
of little fresh bits that you pick andyou make your own like, sandwiches.
I'm so excited!
Yeah.
Lucy (05:27):
So what's this?
Melek (05:29):
Oh, so this is sivribiber or külbiber.
So It's green pepper that is really longand thin and kulbubar means hair pepper.
So it's like, like strands of hair,yeah, like thin like strands of hair.
And
Lucy (05:41):
they're so beautiful, aren't
Melek (05:43):
they?
And I find that they've got a lot moreflavor in them and you don't have to de
seed or anything because you can't anyway.
So much like, I would say they'remuch like a padron pepper in flavor,
where they're not too fleshy.
But they just pack so much flavor, andthey're sweet, they're not, um, too long.
And these are great friedas well, or in food.
(06:03):
But I'm literally going to washthis fresh rocket, these savoury
pepper cucumbers, and I'm just goingto slice, drizzle with olive oil,
salt, Have good bread, feta cheese,olives, and good tea, and that's it.
Oh, oh, I forgot about the gözleme.
I got gözleme from the best placeto have gözleme, which is Hala.
(06:26):
Yes!
Yeah, yeah,
Lucy (06:27):
I've been to the restaurant, but not to Yeah, yeah, Hala,
Melek (06:30):
the aunties, well, Hala means auntie, and the aunties at Hala make
the best, because they're not greasy.
I find that a lot ofplaces over grease, um, Mm.
These are great.
So yeah, I'm just gonna washthese and we can, yeah, get going.
Brilliant.
Come smell the rocket.
Like, the minute the waterhits you can smell it.
(06:53):
Can you smell it?
Right?
This is like my, this is proper rocket.
Lucy (06:59):
So, how long have you been going to Green Lanes to shop?
Melek (07:03):
Since I've, since I've been in this, um, country since I was four.
Well, when I say since I was four,like when I asked my mum about
what was available, like, from ourregions back then, it was very, very,
Yashar HaLim was the only place.
Oh, wow.
So, Yashar HaLim.
the Turkish Cypriot place becausethere was a migration of Turkish
(07:25):
Cypriots way before like mainlandTurkey or Kurds or, um, political
exile, like, you know, happened.
So Turkish Cypriots I think came,there was a wave that came in the
50s and 60s, so as far as back then,some even have earlier heritage.
So the kebab shops, the first kebabshops, like in London, I think were
(07:49):
Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot.
And then yeah, and Yashar Hailem wasthe first grocer that we could go to
and find things we recognized, you know.
And
Lucy (07:59):
that's, that's so important, isn't it?
When you arrive somewhereand everything's unfamiliar.
Melek (08:04):
It's, I mean, it becomes an event, like the whole community will very quickly
find out where something is, you know.
It's like, they've got salto, whichis sun dried tomato and pepper paste,
which is basically the base of allfoods, you know, from our Eden.
It's like, so integral toall of our soups and stews.
(08:26):
So I remember those firsts, there wereso many firsts in those times, like,
and communication was really important.
So one person discovering something,And letting everyone know, so everyone,
but even if it's a bad thing, like,oh, don't do this, it's against the
rules in this country to do that.
(08:47):
A weird
Lucy (08:47):
unspoken
Melek (08:48):
thing that, yeah.
Yeah, you'll end up in prison, likeUncle Suleiman ended up in prison
for that, don't do that, you know.
It was like this pre mobile phones,but people were so interconnected,
we did everything together.
And food was at the heartof that, you ate communally.
So.
And then once we started opening upour own businesses, they were food
(09:09):
businesses, and it was because, youknow, there wasn't space to do other
jobs when you first moved here.
It didn't matter if you were an engineerin Turkey, you couldn't be that here.
So food businesses became the thingthat, you know, was our entry into this
country before we had a grasp of thelanguage, before we had a grasp of the
(09:31):
rules, and also it was a Perfect businessbecause also it meant we got to the food.
Yeah, we were familiar with you know,yeah Yeah, so I'm cutting up some
a packet of that backpack or black
Lucy (09:50):
olives lovely Yeah,
Melek (09:51):
so these are traditional to have for breakfast.
Lucy (09:54):
Okay, and
Melek (09:55):
they're not in A jar or in brine, so they're not, uh, sour.
So that's the
Lucy (10:01):
difference.
That's
Melek (10:02):
the difference.
They're just in, they're oily there, butthey're not actually soaked in olive oil.
They're just backpacked, soit's their own oil around them.
If you have nothing for a traditionalbreakfast, you have tea, you have
strong black tea, you have olives andfeta cheese and bread and that's it.
And that would be your, that'sour croissant in the morning.
I love what a breakfast says about.
(10:26):
a country or a people, becauseeverywhere in the world, I'm so,
I'm always so curious, what isthe breakfast culture in a place?
Lucy (10:33):
Me too, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Isn't
Melek (10:35):
that amazing?
Like, it's so, so interesting.
Yeah.
But then like, yeah, cause whenyou actually, when you go to a
place like Spain where they eatreally late, like they'll, right,
their evening meal is what?
10, 11?
10,
Lucy (10:47):
yeah, at least.
It's like,
Melek (10:48):
what?
My, my temperament could not,constitution could not handle.
Lucy (10:53):
Yeah.
Melek (10:54):
I don't know if that's, The Britishness in me now.
Like, because I don't knowhow it is, like, at home.
I don't think they eat lateeither, because rurally it
wouldn't make sense, because you
Lucy (11:06):
Yeah.
In
Melek (11:06):
rural regions you You've got
Lucy (11:07):
to get up early, so Yeah, you've
Melek (11:09):
got to get up early, and also it's not practical with, like, you
know, sun, sunset and everything.
Lucy (11:14):
Yeah.
That's so interesting though, andthat must be, like, a tricky thing to
navigate, like, being part of two places.
And being like, whichis, what, from where?
Melek (11:26):
It's the challenge of my entire existence, Lucy,
like that's Like, I don't know.
It's like, I'm, it's, it's goingto be the thing, uh, that I
battle with, like, my entire life.
Like, it's a constant,like, where does this sit?
Where do I sit in this?
And my understanding, my sense ofself, it's, it's, it's, you know,
(11:47):
you come into terms of your identity.
And it, I think that's a questionfor everyone constantly, right?
But I think it just becomes morenuanced and complicated when you're
not from one, one place, or maybeyou're not even from any place.
That's what, like, I think, that's whatI kind of had to come to realize, that
(12:11):
I'm not, It's like, being from somewhereis quite an abstract thing for me because
whilst I was born in Turkey, Istanbulwas not, like, I was born in Istanbul,
that's not where my family were from.
They were uprooted from their rurallives, moved to Istanbul, and, and
also, you know, we, we, we were kind ofsecondary as citizens from, because of our
(12:36):
Kurdishness and also our Alevi culture.
So you had that as well,where your language.
You already don't have the language, yourmother tongue, and then you move here
and then you, you're like another stepaway from that mother tongue, because now
Music (12:52):
you
Melek (12:54):
have to figure out English when you, like parents were
figuring out Turkish, so noone speaks anything in English.
particularly well.
So actually, language isn't the superior,most superior form of communication.
That's why food is, becauseit's kind of, it can't be
misinterpreted as easily, right?
Lucy (13:14):
Yeah, that's such, like, that's kind of like a heart
stopping way to put it, like that.
Actually, I think we, I think maybein this country there is a kind of
like understanding of Language andspecifically like often written language
as being like the highest form ofthat's the official communication.
Nothing else really matters unless it'sExpressed in words in that way, but
that's such a beautiful way of puttingit And like the idea of yeah lived
(13:37):
experience and the things that you makefor each other to eat being more important
Melek (13:42):
Yeah, I mean written language is never being a superior
form of communication, I think,in our culture and our people.
And I write about that in my,like, Vittles columns a lot.
Like, I think the whole premise ofthe Vittles column came about because,
you know, of this conversation of,for us, food being a superior form of
language and then it actually beingthe vessel with which I Grasp, like
(14:08):
I could hold on to parts of Kurdishlanguage, a language I don't know.
Yeah.
By having the idea of food being aconduit to trace back to your roots and
being able to do that with a word too.
So I pick a word that I reallylike because I get to like words
because I don't know Kurdish I getto look at it from the outside and
(14:31):
go, Oh, I really like that word andreally explore it like it's new.
And so I pick a word.
I write about the etymology of theword and the roots and what it means.
And I love that there's no direct littletranslation for a word because it's
so much from the earth it comes from.
much like food is, right?
(14:53):
Produce is.
So I love like aligning the two andkind of weaving them into each other
and then just coming up with a recipe.
And it's been my way of, again,like coming to terms with
what my identity means to me.
And, and now I'm in a place where Ithink it's exciting that I'm this,
(15:14):
like, would vagrant be the right word?
I
Lucy (15:17):
think it's a nice, yeah, I feel like maybe it has a derogatory connotation.
Doesn't it?
Does
Melek (15:21):
it?
But
Lucy (15:22):
I think that's probably a reflection on us.
Right.
The people that have decided thatit's negative to move around.
Yeah.
And have no fixed sense of home.
Yeah,
Melek (15:33):
so it's like, although I have a very fixed sense of, I'm from London.
Yeah.
I don't have a fixed senseof, like, what that means.
Yeah.
And.
It just means that you,you're just resourceful.
I feel like it's just, it meansI'm resourceful and just throw
whatever at me, I'll, I'll make it,like, I'll root it in something.
Lucy (15:53):
Yeah.
I love how you approach your columnsso much because I think so much.
A food writing is about authority andbeing like an expert on something and I
think there's absolutely room for that.
I think there are some, I think thereare some writers that do it badly,
but I think there are some writersthat do it really beautifully.
But I also think there's so muchspace to like sit between things
(16:14):
and be like, you know, I don'tknow, but this is how I feel.
Melek (16:18):
Right?
And I get to, yeah, like, I love that,because how can anyone be the, I find
it all so absurd, like, assuming you're,you have authority on anything in life.
Yeah, I agree, yeah, I totally agree.
And so, like, anything in life, so,I How could you have the audacity?
Yeah, I love that word, actually, becauseI think immigrant energy, as I call it,
(16:39):
is, like, Like having the audacity toexist, having the audacity to, to try to
speak English and like, do it confidentlyand just be creative and resourceful.
And when it comes to authority, thatis just like authority over anything.
I think it's, we learned, you know,we've had to learn quickly that
(17:00):
it's absurd and it's corrupt often.
And so just to be able to.
Move around and be flexible with it.
I think of the first interviewactually before I had the column
like Jonathan the editor of it toolsReached out wanted to do an interview
and we actually did the interviewon Green Lanes In the Albuquerque
(17:23):
restaurant, and he said he asked meat the end I think towards the end of
the interview, what is Kurdish food?
He asked me, and I said,it's anything I make.
Right.
It's anything I make, because I'mKurdish, so it's Kurdish food.
And I had, I guess I had the audacityto say, I had to have the audacity to
(17:45):
say that, because who else would give methat right or that authority otherwise?
No one.
If I gave my authority and my autonomyto someone else, They would say I have
no right over anything because I don'thave a, an official place I'm from.
So I have to grab that authority andthat autonomy and that audacity to
say, well, it's whatever I cook, mate.
Lucy (18:11):
So you talked about when you started going to Green Lanes and you
said that there were loads of firsts.
Melek (18:16):
Yes.
Lucy (18:17):
And I wondered if there were any other like notable firsts
that you wanted to talk about?
Melek (18:22):
Absolutely.
My, my first first in London,like my, my first My earliest
very distinctive food memory, Iwould say, is, I think I was five.
So, we came here when I was four.
I think I was five and myparents, um, were visiting a
friend who had a calf in Archway.
(18:45):
I just remember being a kid being takenaround places all the time, right?
The things adults needed to do.
So, it was like not a childhood oflike, What children wanted necessarily,
it's just like, yeah, they werefiguring out work and where to live
and all this, like trying to figure,so it's all by, like, word of mouth.
You hear someone's got a job somewhereand you go, and I remember, like,
(19:08):
all my early memories of London whenwe first arrived was, like, grey.
Harshness, everything felt harsh,like people felt harsh and every,
because it was so unfamiliar andour massive family wasn't around us.
So it felt cold and harsh in loads of waysand grey, like the colour feeling grey.
(19:30):
And then so we went to this caf and so wewere sitting at the table and mum and dad
were talking to this guy who ran the caf.
And on the table I sawthis bright yellow jar.
And Of, like, English mustard.
And I was so curious, becauseit was so bright and so yellow
(19:52):
in this, like, grey place.
You know, like, what felt,it was the brightest thing.
I, like, it was so, I was like, and it'son the table, and it's on all the tables.
And I just remember the adults speakingand thinking, Okay, no, you can't, you
can't touch it, you can't touch it.
They'll notice, they'll see you.
(20:13):
And I'm thinking, No,but I'm so cu what is it?
What is it?
And then as they were talking Igrabbed it and I opened it and it
just was like a punch in the face.
It was so abusive.
It was so violent and Iwas like, this is England.
(20:36):
Now I absolutely love it.
Like I mix it with yogurt and lemon andolive oil and make it into And so it's
like It's actually a story of how Ihave become more British and the UK has
become more Kurdish for me, like yogurt,the most significant, the most Kurdish
thing possible, meeting mustard and itworking and it being delicious together.
(21:01):
But that was my first meeting ofmustard and it wasn't friendly.
It is
Lucy (21:06):
really abusive.
It is, too, because
Melek (21:08):
It's not like horseradish does, right?
It's got that same quality.
And now I'm like, pleaseput mustard in my burger.
Please put it, you know, in my bagel.
I love the intensity of it.
I love it so much.
I love the color.
I like, Mustard yellow.
Lucy (21:26):
Yeah.
Melek (21:27):
Tablecloth.
Oh my
Lucy (21:27):
God.
Oh
Melek (21:28):
my gosh.
Wow.
Wow.
This is dramatic.
This is England.
This is England.
Yeah.
I upset the English clouds.
Literally a rural breakfast isyou're just tearing things, right?
Just placing them on a plate and youleaving it to you to just construct
(21:52):
however you want to eat it, right?
So it's literally, youdon't do much to it at all.
So I'm cutting off the roots from therocket and the spring onion and I'm just
going to place it on the plate like that.
(22:12):
People might be shocked by like havingwhole spring onion for breakfast.
Lucy (22:17):
No I love it.
Melek (22:19):
for the support.
So with these I'm just gonna,with the peppers because they're
quite, you just slice them.
Down the middle.
And you wouldn't use a chopping board.
So, you don't, that's, you don'tintervene any more than what you
(22:46):
can do with a knife in your hands.
So, nothing that requiresa chopping board.
Lucy (22:53):
I love that, you don't intervene with the produce.
No.
You just let it be.
Melek (22:57):
Let it be, if it's good.
You can let it be.
And look how gorgeous this tomato is.
Lucy (23:02):
That's beautiful.
Melek (23:03):
Dad, my dad would just tear this tomato.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't cut it.
He'd be like, what are you doing?
I'm trying to be a little more civilized.
Right.
Lucy (23:17):
That is the most beautiful plate.
Melek (23:20):
I'm going to sprinkle some olive oil, some lemon juice
and salt on it in a minute.
I'm just going to plate up someolives and feta cheese for us as well.
I'm going to cut this bread upand just cut some gozleme up.
So let's take these to the table.
Oh, let me drizzle itin olive oil actually.
(23:42):
Yeah, a bit of olive oil on this and thenI'm gonna actually put some black pepper
and can you pass me the Aleppo chili?
Absolutely.
It's um, that one, yeah, that one.
So there's two different types.
That one is a chunkier flake,and this, this one is, um,
finer, um, and slightly spicier.
(24:09):
But I feel like you can handleit, I just sense that you can.
I'm honoured.
A bit of sumac on the cucumber as well.
Lucy (24:16):
Ooh, yes!
Melek (24:17):
Ooh, I needed to boil some eggs, what's wrong with me?
Lucy (24:20):
What's wrong with you?
Shall I put these on the table?
Yes,
Melek (24:24):
please.
So when we first arrived, we stayedfor six months in my with my uncle
who was in Edmonton, Enfield area.
And then we got given a house,temporary housing in Muswell
Music (24:45):
Hill.
Melek (24:45):
So that was very north as well.
And then, yeah, we got moved to StamfordHill in, in Hackney, which is like kind
of northeast, like the, the kind of edgeof Hackney near Tottenham where I am now.
So I've always grown up here, youknow, Stoke Newton, Dawson, all the
Kurdish and Turkish community areas.
Yeah.
It's.
been where I always am.
(25:08):
Yeah.
Lucy (25:09):
And it's an area that's changed a lot, right?
Melek (25:12):
It has.
It has changed a lot, but I feel likeit stayed the same in a lot of ways
as well because of the resilience.
of the Kurdish and Turkishcommunity that I know
Music (25:23):
where
Melek (25:23):
they're always adapting.
So they've not, we've not disappeared.
We've not drifted anywhere.
We've just changed with the changingtides because there is such an
entrepreneurial spirit in our community.
So it's like, Oh, uh,you want a barista now?
Okay.
We'll be the bestbarista you've ever seen.
(25:43):
We know how to grow a beard, avery perfectly cropped beard,
and wear a trendy t shirt.
We know how to, like, we'll,okay, we'll turn everything into
organic wood, like, in our spaces.
We're on it.
We'll, we'll, we'll startorganic, uh, grocers, if you want.
You don't need to go to WholeFoods, we've got Harvest.
(26:05):
Right?
And like, there's thatingenuity, there's that tenacity.
We've got that survival instinct, andI think so, in a lot of ways, community
has stayed the same, as well, as itmanaged to survive and stay the same.
Lucy (26:21):
I feel like some of that ingenuity that you're talking about, I feel like
some of that is, at least some of itis, sort of goes uncredited, right?
And I feel like this is something youwrote about in the London Feeds Itself
essay, sort of, in that you talkedabout how the kind of community that
you and your parents, existed in whenyou first came to England and how
(26:42):
people in those communities went onto start, like, incredibly successful,
often food related businesses.
But it's almost like people kind ofgo to those restaurants and talk about
them and like, name drop them, butthey don't necessarily understand the
origin or the context, like, I feellike that was maybe something you were
(27:03):
getting at in, like, people who go to,like, Mangle 1, Mangle 2, or whatever.
Yeah.
There's maybe like a bitof the story missing.
Do you feel like that's
Melek (27:12):
true?
Yeah, yeah, I do feel like the story's,uh, story's missing, and actually the
essay came about because of that firstinterview with Jonathan, where he knew
I was feeling like The Kurdish communityspecifically was invisible in talking
about these restaurants that are great,but them being referred to as Turkish
(27:33):
restaurants when they're Kurdish owned.
The owners are referring to themselvesas Turkish restaurants because it's
more palatable and it's easier.
I felt like the journey and thatstruggle is lost in simplifying.
It's not as simple as it'sjust a Turkish restaurant.
Yeah, they are Turkish restaurantsbecause predominantly these are people
(27:56):
from Turkey, but we're Kurdish, andactually the kind of specific food you're
eating are from Kurdish regions often.
As well, because actually Turkish cuisineis so vast and so broad, there's, you
know, Mediterranean influence, Circassianinfluence, like, the Aegean, all these
different regions, because it's suchlike, the position, the, the geography of
(28:18):
Turkey, like, you know, being exposed toEurope and Asia and all, like, you know.
being part of the, like, silk route,as it's called, the trade, it does
feel important to be more specific.
And so the essay, the London FeedsItself essay, was an opportunity to
To be nuanced, and to kind of, a nod,an ode to that era, like, my parents
(28:46):
era of migration here, that had tobe private, and be in private spaces.
In hidden spaces as I say in theessay for so long and it took a lot of
struggle, a lot of beautiful struggle.
It was a very special time.
It was a close knit community then becauseof that mutual struggle but it took a lot
(29:07):
of hard work to come out into those publicspaces and be those public spaces people
know and love and have a right to love.
But I just thought it's a way,here are the places you love
and here's why you love them somuch and here's an opportunity.
To actually love them even more,
Music (29:25):
you
Melek (29:25):
know.
in the 80s and 90s when a lot of, youknow, Turkish political exiles and
Kurdish immigrants moved here, there wasvery limited option of what the work was
(29:48):
and it was a lot of textile factoriesand illegal textile factories often.
So when I say illegal, They werelegal, but there was a lot of people
working who didn't have work permits,who couldn't get work permits, right?
So these warehouses were mainly inHackney, some in Tottenham, Haringey,
(30:09):
some in Edmonton, but mainly inHackney warehouses, where you now know
as Hackney, Wick, and Dawson areas.
So the specific one I writeabout, well there's two that
I write about in the essay.
One is where Beyond Retrois now, that building.
So
Lucy (30:28):
the one that's kind of like up from Dawson Junction?
Yeah.
That one.
Melek (30:33):
So the Simpsons house, I think.
Um, um, and that used to be thetop, the floors were factories.
That's where my uncle was.
And then where Yeah.
Palm II Grocers is that building wherenow the the floor above the warehouse
That's where like people hire out thatvenue for supper clubs and do yoga that
(30:58):
used to be where my parents were andI talk about Those secret spaces now
being, you know, these trendy placesand even me having the experience of
going back in such an unplanned like wayand the visceral like reaction I had.
I start the essay talking about how myfriend Lee fancied this, this girl who
(31:25):
was like running supper clubs, veganones and He was like, so I needed to
be wing woman and go to one of theseChristmas pop ups that she was having.
So this vegan Christmas meal that we wentto, which was like, It was like 7 65 quid.
(31:45):
Was it like something like,look, I didn't pay for it.
I would not have, I thinkit was something like that.
Oh God, maybe I'm being outrageous.
Maybe it was 45, but still, still still45 for a flapjack with cold gravy.
No.
Was outrageous.
That's what we got.
We were told it was a nut roast.
(32:07):
That's a crime against nut roast.
I've had good nut roasts, I have.
That was a flapjack on the plate,and it was cold, I don't know, it
was just nothingness, and I hadto sit there, and then obviously
we went for a kebab afterwards.
But um, so he was like, Mel, we'regoing to this place, come meet me there
and I hadn't, I didn't know, like Ididn't think about where exactly it was.
(32:31):
So I rushed, I was running late and thenI rushed into this building and then I
went up the stairs and it suddenly feltso familiar and it took me back to when
I was like six and my dad taking meup these stairs when like after school
suddenly through these like double doorsand we walked The supper club venue,
(32:54):
but for me it was the factory where myparents worked, and I just reconstructed
that space, I knew where the sewingmachines were, I knew where the makeshift
kitchen was on the left, and where thesteam irons were right at the back, and
yeah, it was just so emotive, and yeah.
It felt so surreal sitting there andI think I felt even more resentful
(33:18):
about having a flapjack when I knew theincredible meals that happened in that
space, in that secret space, you know?
There was a cutting table in the middleof the factory, so where all the pattern
cutters would work and then give theircuts to the like people on the sewing
machines and that at lunchtime would turninto the massive sharing dining table
(33:41):
so they'd clear all the material off,dust it off and then put a massive cloth
which was made from all the materialsthere and then everyone would share what
they bought so like everyone had tinsand containers of different dishes from
dinner from the night before and it wouldbe warmed up in the makeshift kitchen and
(34:02):
then brought and then you'd create thismassive beautiful spread and someone had
put the tea on which is like two pots.
Turkish tea is pot of water andthe bottom pot and then tea leaves
like soaking in the concentrate,concentrated water brewing for you
know an hour before you serve it.
So you have the tea on before lunch isready and then just everyone gathering
(34:26):
around and it was just the most magical.
table of food that thesepeople who were living the most
desperate times in their life were
making
Lucy (34:46):
magic.
Yeah, against all the odds.
Melek (34:50):
Yeah, the most resourceful people.
And that's, those are the people whomade, you know, manga one and two and,
you know, zero one, I don't know, and allthese places, like, of course they did.
Of course they did.
If, if they could be in these secret,dusty warehouses where they had to
(35:16):
like, cover the windows with newspapersso no one knew they were there,
and they could create these feasts.
Of course they could make theserestaurants that everyone loved.
Yeah.
And it was just my way of going,Oh, you think this is amazing?
This is how amazing they are.
This is how amazing these people are.
Lucy (35:36):
I think it's, like, you know, hearing you talk about it now, and
reading the essay as well, it mademe think a lot about, like, I don't
know, maybe, like, the intentionspeople have behind opening restaurants.
Because, like, that Yeah.
That, just, kind of, The restaurantsthat the people that you're talking about
open, that came from a place of justwanting to feed and wanting to bring
(35:56):
people together and kind of, obviouslythey were doing it to make a living, but
there was, I feel like that's differentfrom a lot of other restaurants.
Maybe, I don't know.
I don't quite know how to articulateit, but there's something that feels
like it's just, it's a rich part ofan incredible culture and it's wanting
to, um, keep producing that, I guess.
Melek (36:21):
Uh, yeah, but I think that's like, that's true of a lot of communities, a lot
of, and, and I, I think it's so you, um,You know, when I think of the Bangladeshi
community in Bricklay, so what's knownas Indian food is predominantly was
the, you know, Bangladeshi community.
(36:41):
Yeah, that's a reallyinteresting parallel.
Yeah, of course.
Lucy (36:44):
Yeah, it's that erasure again of the, like, specificness of the thing,
because people can't be bothered to
Melek (36:53):
No, it's not that people can't be bothered, like, I think it's You know,
to be fair, it's just that, that timeand what, um, what a community were up
against and how they felt probably like.
They had to kind of present themselves.
What was easier, you know, I see in theI mean when you go to a lot of these like
(37:14):
what I say, Kurdish restaurants, but it'shard like it is if they're presenting
themselves as a Turkish restaurant.
Who am I to go and go?
Actually, sir, you're Kurdish, youknow it, you speak Kurdish, you know,
and when I ask you where you're from,you know, you're Kurdish, but you
still say you're, you're Turkish.
And who am I to?
suddenly challenge how theyidentify themselves, right?
(37:38):
Um, right.
But you know, it is really interestingwhen I make, when I write these
stories or like I do stories andvideos with aunties and communities.
Um, like I, I did this, um, video,uh, during the pandemic of these
women who would get together intheir garden to make bread together.
(37:58):
Um, such bread.
And you, you, you get together causeit's easier to make massive batches of
this bread and, you know, for each other.
That's like five women.
And amongst themselves, they're, they'respeaking Kurdish, you know, and I'll
ask them what they're saying becausethey're like Roaring with laughter,
(38:20):
you know, and you're watching themand you want to be in on it and you
go Oh, what are you talking about?
What's what's so funny?
You know, it's not funny in turkish andthey'll say it's not funny in turkish Like
they'll refer to themselves as turkish.
They'll go as turkish people andi'm like You, like, are you not
aware of this, like, Contradiction.
Contradiction, this dichotomy, andit's like, but who am I to raise that?
(38:45):
Because there's so muchcomplexity in that.
Lucy (38:48):
And you've talked about feeling that as well, right?
Yeah, and I
Melek (38:50):
do, and this is what I mean about this, This constant
battle that I, we always have withour identity, and that's okay.
Why do we have to sitcomfortably with who we are?
You know, it's not a given.
It's not an inanimate object.
Your sense of self is always changingand actually to be on your tippy
(39:13):
toes when it comes to self awareness,I think isn't a bad thing, right?
Right.
Rather than it being toosettled and it's like.
Lucy (39:23):
I think that's really interesting, particularly in the world that we live
in where like, that we sort of livein an era of like a personal brand.
And that feels like it's somethingthat has to be quite fixed,
otherwise people don't like it.
Yeah.
And that's really difficult, right?
Like, for the reasons that you'resaying, like, how do you navigate?
Like presenting yourself as aparticular thing when that's not fixed.
Melek (39:46):
No, it isn't it isn't but it's so liberating It's so liberating
to have no fixed sense of self
Lucy (39:55):
Yeah, yeah
Melek (39:57):
It took a long time for me to see it as a positive thing.
Lucy (40:01):
I bet yeah Yeah,
Melek (40:03):
but it is it is and also it just makes you feel So open, I think, and
really loving and accepting of anyoneelse and whatever they want to be.
And that's why I can't tellthose aunties, Auntie, um, aren't
you, I think you're Can ish?
No, like, that's not my place.
(40:25):
Auntie can be whatever she wants to be.
You know?
Another, like, really strongfood memory is like, my mum's
chickpea and lamb neck stew.
(40:49):
Well Or cannellini bean and lamb neck.
So it's a really, it's one of the, like,when in those basically old warehouses
and community centres, one of the firstdishes that was made and sold, like in
the community centres, was cannellinibean with lamb neck on rice, right?
(41:09):
On chickpea rice often.
And that was such a staple, andthe Halkiv, the Kurdish community
centre, was known for that.
Was known for that.
And It's just such a source of comfortand it's so, yeah, because I just
think of what, so basically BeyondRetro was the Kurdish community centre.
(41:32):
And it was that space where, uh,you'd go to, for people who helped you
with your bureaucracy, like fillingout forms, uh, you'd go if you had
a housing issue and someone wouldsay, oh, there's a, there's a flat.
You know, that you could go tothere or, and then you'd have
like wedding celebrations there.
You'd have like folk dancing classes andthen you had the kitchen, the canteen that
(41:57):
had The cannellini beans and lamb neck.
And then mum would make it at home.
And the secret was, with mum's one, wasthat she'd make it in a pressure cooker.
Lucy (42:08):
Mmm.
Melek (42:09):
So that made it extra special.
And there's a thing That ourcommunity have with pressure cookers.
It's a big deal having everyhome should have a pressure
cooker And it's an investment.
They're not cheap and you get a goodone and it's you have it for life
And it's the first thing you youget if your child's getting married.
(42:33):
It's the wedding gift It'sthe ultimate wedding gift.
So like Sometimes someone claimslike an auntie will go i'm going
to get this pressure cooker.
They'll claim it and it's likedamn it You What am I going to get?
So anyway, when I, back whenI was married, no one got me a
pressure cooker straight away.
It was so crazy.
(42:54):
I think mum really wanted to takeher time to select the right one.
Anyway, and my ex loved my mum'scannellini britter beans and lamb, but
she took a long time to tell, like,so she didn't, she wouldn't tell him.
The secret of, like, she makesit in a pressure cooker, right?
(43:15):
But she loved him dearly andobviously this was my childhood,
like, Sweetheart, we'd grown uptogether, that he was like a son.
And then we married and she was gettingready, she was like, It's time to tell
him, like, and, Because I've got to getthis pressure cooker and I've Tell him.
That's when I'll tell him.
And then, but four years into the marriageand she still hadn't like, told him.
(43:38):
And then this one day, um, wewent over and she had made it.
And he was like, you know,Auntie, I love this so much.
And he ate it and then he,like, he fell asleep on her lap.
She felt so like, oh,this is, you know, my son.
And then we, like, so shebought a pressure cooker.
(44:01):
Uh uh.
To give for our wedding anniversary.
And Four days before our weddinganniversary, we broke up, him and I.
And it was like, I was just pluckingup the courage to tell mum and dad,
like, that it's just over, right?
And I'm like, trying to pullmyself together to go tell them.
(44:26):
I, like, went away for two weeksand they were like, what's up?
Like, I've got this, youknow, like, what's going on?
Everyone's disappeared.
So I pulled myself together.
And was like, finally had the strengthto go to mum and dad and go, you
know, like, when it's, it's done.
I'll never forget that.
I, I sat down and dad, like, when Itold, and the minute dad heard, he was
(44:49):
the, the dramatic, he took, one who gotup and started pacing up and down the
house going, I can't believe it, what?
And then he, like, he disappeared downthe corridor and then come back, go,
and another thing, you know, yeah.
And just, he was just had.
An utter breakdown.
And so, Mum and I were likesilent, watching him like, just
(45:11):
have all these different thoughtsand these different emotions.
One minute angry, oneminute like, devastated.
And the next minute going,we're gonna get through this.
And then, and then wejust let him calm down.
And Mum was just likesilent the whole time.
The whole time.
And then like kind of, half anhour in when Dad had calmed down,
(45:32):
just there was this silence.
And then Mum said, I'm so glad Ididn't give him that pressure cooker.
And so she's just like, she's happy.
She's like, you didn't get the cafe,you didn't get that, but you got
the pressure cooker, you got thesecret to the stew, you're winning.
(45:55):
Wow.
Yeah.
That's an important stew.
It's a special stew and I never forget it.
But, and I never forget like, Allthe, like, all that it represents,
you know, in our community centreand how precious that stew is and how
precious a pressure cooker is, youknow, and what it means and I love that.
(46:22):
Okay, okay, we're ready,we're actually ready.
Wow,
Lucy (46:26):
sorry that took
Melek (46:27):
so long.
Lucy (46:28):
Oh my god, no, not at all.
This looks incredible.
We can Look at this beautiful table.
Lecker
(46:48):
is hosted and producedby me, Lucy Dearlove.
Thanks to Melek Adal for beingpart of this episode and for making
me such an incredible breakfast.
If you want to see photos ofit, they'll be on the Lecker
Instagram, at Lecker Podcast.
The second edition of London FeedsItself featuring, um, Mel's essay, along
(47:09):
with so much other fantastic writingabout food in London, is out now.
You can find it online orat a bookshop near you.
Music in this episodeis by Blue Dot Sessions.
And before I go, a reminder thatyou can sign up as a paid subscriber
to support Lecker on ApplePodcasts, Patreon, and Substack.
(47:29):
Links are in the show notes.
And to any paid subscribers whoare listening here, thank you so
much for your continued support.
It means a lot.
And if you're a Lecker listener that'slistened to one or more episodes
this year and you haven't left me areview on Apple Podcasts, even just a
rating, then please take a couple ofminutes out of your day to do that.
(47:52):
It makes a huge difference in howpeople find the show and it really
helps independent podcasters likemyself find and expand a new audience.
Thanks so much for listening.
I'll be back soon.
This is Lecker.
I'm Lucy Dearlove.
This is July's installmentof the Lecker book club.
Each month an episode highlightsa recent food related publication
through an interview with theperson responsible for writing it.
This one is a little bit different though.
Firstly, because this book isn'ttechnically fully recently published.
(00:25):
London Feeds Itself was firstpublished back in September 22, a
collaboration between Vittles founderand co editor Jonathan Nunn and the
architectural charity Open City.
Through 25 essays by differentwriters, including Jeremy Corbyn on
his allotment and Claudia Roden onHampstead Garden suburb, threaded
together by notes on restaurants,areas and communities by Jonathan.
(00:48):
He explores eating and cooking andbeing fed and feeding within the city.
The first edition, with its strikingpurple cover, library book esque
perspex dust cover, and pull outposter of a huge, beautiful collage
map of London by Anna Hodgson and HarryDerby, sold out almost immediately.
But anyone who missed out would havebeen happy to hear the news of version 2.
(01:11):
0, published in collaboration withFitzcarraldo in March this year,
with a new cover and two new essays.
The idea of centering the architectureof London's spaces for eating and
cooking is unusual in food writing,restaurant writing in particular,
where food and stories from thetable can exist nakedly on the plate.
Divorced of any physicalor emotional context.
(01:34):
Instead, London Feeds Itself embedseating as part of the city's physical
culture, and so expresses withoutambiguity how the politics, geography
and economics of life affect what we eatand those who produce and cook it for us.
As the back cover of the first edition putit, this book shows that the true centres
of London food culture can be found inever more creative uses of space, eked
(01:58):
out by the people who make up the city.
This is particularly evident inMelek Erdal's essay, The Warehouse.
Hidden people, hidden spaces, it begins.
In it, Melek, a Kurdish chef, writerand storyteller, Born in Istanbul and
who moved with her parents to Londonas a child, describes the physical
(02:20):
shock of the experience she hadaccidentally going back to one of the
northeast London warehouses where herparents worked in textile factories.
Melek (02:27):
It felt so surreal sitting there and I think I felt
even more resentful about it.
having a flapjack when I knew theincredible meals that happened in that
space, in that secret space, you know?
Lucy (02:42):
Honestly, I've wanted to interview Melek for ages, having
loved her writing for a long time.
Her poetic, meandering recipecolumn in Vittles is something I
drop everything to read every time.
And so I jumped at the chance tohave breakfast at her house and
talk about her London Feeds Itselfessay, and also more broadly about
London and about Kurdish food.
Melek (03:02):
There's absolutely no way you're coming to, like, to my home
and not being fed, that's like,absolutely ridiculous and rude.
You're coming to my home for thefirst time, and you've schlepped
all the way from, like, not evenLewisham, like, further away from
that, actually, when we think about it.
Lucy (03:20):
Yeah, I mean, technically, but, you know, I'm glad to be here.
Melek (03:24):
Of course I'm going to feed you, of course.
Right,
regular tea?
Lucy (03:32):
Yes, please.
Like, Fiji tea?
You're welcome.
Pidgey tips.
What was that?
Pidgey tips?
Yeah, great.
Perfect.
Melek (03:36):
Great.
So, I went to Green Lanes, youknow, my favourite, uh, street.
I love going there for like,me time on the weekend.
So I have like these favouritegrocers for different things.
So like, every grocer, uh,has something that I love.
So there's Doslar Supermarket.
They get like their spring onionsfrom allotments and their cucumbers.
(03:59):
So I go there for that.
Lucy (04:01):
Cucumbers as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Cucumbers are your thing.
They're my thing.
Melek (04:04):
Yeah.
Like what I call regular size cucumbers,but what you like in the UK might not, you
in the UK, I'm from the UK, but here inthe UK you might consider mini cucumbers.
For me, It's regular.
They're normal cucumbers.
Because it's so weird toget one giant cucumber.
It's so weird.
(04:25):
You don't get one massive.
You get loads of like regular sizedcucumber, which tastes more amazing.
I was gonna say,
Lucy (04:31):
they have more flavor, don't they, those little
Melek (04:33):
ones?
They do.
They have more flavor.
You can just eat it without peeling it,like, you know, just, just grab it and go.
It's a very, very Kurdish thing.
Iranians love it too.
Often, it's those sizedcucumbers are called.
Iranian cucumbers for
Music (04:47):
some reason.
Melek (04:48):
But yeah, so I got, uh, cucumbers and spring onions from there, and
then I got rocket from Hello Haringey.
Nice.
And then I went to Yashan Halim,which is like the old, like the
longest running grocer in Greenlands.
They're a Turkish Cypriot place, and I gotsome tomatoes and some black olives from
(05:09):
there, and I got this special bread calledSaman bread, which I'm gonna show you.
So basically I wanted to do atraditional breakfast that's just loads
of little fresh bits that you pick andyou make your own like, sandwiches.
I'm so excited!
Yeah.
Lucy (05:27):
So what's this?
Melek (05:29):
Oh, so this is sivribiber or külbiber.
So It's green pepper that is really longand thin and kulbubar means hair pepper.
So it's like, like strands of hair,yeah, like thin like strands of hair.
And
Lucy (05:41):
they're so beautiful, aren't
Melek (05:43):
they?
And I find that they've got a lot moreflavor in them and you don't have to de
seed or anything because you can't anyway.
So much like, I would say they'remuch like a padron pepper in flavor,
where they're not too fleshy.
But they just pack so much flavor, andthey're sweet, they're not, um, too long.
And these are great friedas well, or in food.
(06:03):
But I'm literally going to washthis fresh rocket, these savoury
pepper cucumbers, and I'm just goingto slice, drizzle with olive oil,
salt, Have good bread, feta cheese,olives, and good tea, and that's it.
Oh, oh, I forgot about the gözleme.
I got gözleme from the best placeto have gözleme, which is Hala.
(06:26):
Yes!
Yeah, yeah,
Lucy (06:27):
I've been to the restaurant, but not to Yeah, yeah, Hala,
Melek (06:30):
the aunties, well, Hala means auntie, and the aunties at Hala make
the best, because they're not greasy.
I find that a lot ofplaces over grease, um, Mm.
These are great.
So yeah, I'm just gonna washthese and we can, yeah, get going.
Brilliant.
Come smell the rocket.
Like, the minute the waterhits you can smell it.
(06:53):
Can you smell it?
Right?
This is like my, this is proper rocket.
Lucy (06:59):
So, how long have you been going to Green Lanes to shop?
Melek (07:03):
Since I've, since I've been in this, um, country since I was four.
Well, when I say since I was four,like when I asked my mum about
what was available, like, from ourregions back then, it was very, very,
Yashar HaLim was the only place.
Oh, wow.
So, Yashar HaLim.
the Turkish Cypriot place becausethere was a migration of Turkish
(07:25):
Cypriots way before like mainlandTurkey or Kurds or, um, political
exile, like, you know, happened.
So Turkish Cypriots I think came,there was a wave that came in the
50s and 60s, so as far as back then,some even have earlier heritage.
So the kebab shops, the first kebabshops, like in London, I think were
(07:49):
Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot.
And then yeah, and Yashar Hailem wasthe first grocer that we could go to
and find things we recognized, you know.
And
Lucy (07:59):
that's, that's so important, isn't it?
When you arrive somewhereand everything's unfamiliar.
Melek (08:04):
It's, I mean, it becomes an event, like the whole community will very quickly
find out where something is, you know.
It's like, they've got salto, whichis sun dried tomato and pepper paste,
which is basically the base of allfoods, you know, from our Eden.
It's like, so integral toall of our soups and stews.
(08:26):
So I remember those firsts, there wereso many firsts in those times, like,
and communication was really important.
So one person discovering something,And letting everyone know, so everyone,
but even if it's a bad thing, like,oh, don't do this, it's against the
rules in this country to do that.
(08:47):
A weird
Lucy (08:47):
unspoken
Melek (08:48):
thing that, yeah.
Yeah, you'll end up in prison, likeUncle Suleiman ended up in prison
for that, don't do that, you know.
It was like this pre mobile phones,but people were so interconnected,
we did everything together.
And food was at the heartof that, you ate communally.
So.
And then once we started opening upour own businesses, they were food
(09:09):
businesses, and it was because, youknow, there wasn't space to do other
jobs when you first moved here.
It didn't matter if you were an engineerin Turkey, you couldn't be that here.
So food businesses became the thingthat, you know, was our entry into this
country before we had a grasp of thelanguage, before we had a grasp of the
(09:31):
rules, and also it was a Perfect businessbecause also it meant we got to the food.
Yeah, we were familiar with you know,yeah Yeah, so I'm cutting up some
a packet of that backpack or black
Lucy (09:50):
olives lovely Yeah,
Melek (09:51):
so these are traditional to have for breakfast.
Lucy (09:54):
Okay, and
Melek (09:55):
they're not in A jar or in brine, so they're not, uh, sour.
So that's the
Lucy (10:01):
difference.
That's
Melek (10:02):
the difference.
They're just in, they're oily there, butthey're not actually soaked in olive oil.
They're just backpacked, soit's their own oil around them.
If you have nothing for a traditionalbreakfast, you have tea, you have
strong black tea, you have olives andfeta cheese and bread and that's it.
And that would be your, that'sour croissant in the morning.
I love what a breakfast says about.
(10:26):
a country or a people, becauseeverywhere in the world, I'm so,
I'm always so curious, what isthe breakfast culture in a place?
Lucy (10:33):
Me too, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Isn't
Melek (10:35):
that amazing?
Like, it's so, so interesting.
Yeah.
But then like, yeah, cause whenyou actually, when you go to a
place like Spain where they eatreally late, like they'll, right,
their evening meal is what?
10, 11?
10,
Lucy (10:47):
yeah, at least.
It's like,
Melek (10:48):
what?
My, my temperament could not,constitution could not handle.
Lucy (10:53):
Yeah.
Melek (10:54):
I don't know if that's, The Britishness in me now.
Like, because I don't knowhow it is, like, at home.
I don't think they eat lateeither, because rurally it
wouldn't make sense, because you
Lucy (11:06):
Yeah.
In
Melek (11:06):
rural regions you You've got
Lucy (11:07):
to get up early, so Yeah, you've
Melek (11:09):
got to get up early, and also it's not practical with, like, you
know, sun, sunset and everything.
Lucy (11:14):
Yeah.
That's so interesting though, andthat must be, like, a tricky thing to
navigate, like, being part of two places.
And being like, whichis, what, from where?
Melek (11:26):
It's the challenge of my entire existence, Lucy,
like that's Like, I don't know.
It's like, I'm, it's, it's goingto be the thing, uh, that I
battle with, like, my entire life.
Like, it's a constant,like, where does this sit?
Where do I sit in this?
And my understanding, my sense ofself, it's, it's, it's, you know,
(11:47):
you come into terms of your identity.
And it, I think that's a questionfor everyone constantly, right?
But I think it just becomes morenuanced and complicated when you're
not from one, one place, or maybeyou're not even from any place.
That's what, like, I think, that's whatI kind of had to come to realize, that
(12:11):
I'm not, It's like, being from somewhereis quite an abstract thing for me because
whilst I was born in Turkey, Istanbulwas not, like, I was born in Istanbul,
that's not where my family were from.
They were uprooted from their rurallives, moved to Istanbul, and, and
also, you know, we, we, we were kind ofsecondary as citizens from, because of our
(12:36):
Kurdishness and also our Alevi culture.
So you had that as well,where your language.
You already don't have the language, yourmother tongue, and then you move here
and then you, you're like another stepaway from that mother tongue, because now
Music (12:52):
you
Melek (12:54):
have to figure out English when you, like parents were
figuring out Turkish, so noone speaks anything in English.
particularly well.
So actually, language isn't the superior,most superior form of communication.
That's why food is, becauseit's kind of, it can't be
misinterpreted as easily, right?
Lucy (13:14):
Yeah, that's such, like, that's kind of like a heart
stopping way to put it, like that.
Actually, I think we, I think maybein this country there is a kind of
like understanding of Language andspecifically like often written language
as being like the highest form ofthat's the official communication.
Nothing else really matters unless it'sExpressed in words in that way, but
that's such a beautiful way of puttingit And like the idea of yeah lived
(13:37):
experience and the things that you makefor each other to eat being more important
Melek (13:42):
Yeah, I mean written language is never being a superior
form of communication, I think,in our culture and our people.
And I write about that in my,like, Vittles columns a lot.
Like, I think the whole premise ofthe Vittles column came about because,
you know, of this conversation of,for us, food being a superior form of
language and then it actually beingthe vessel with which I Grasp, like
(14:08):
I could hold on to parts of Kurdishlanguage, a language I don't know.
Yeah.
By having the idea of food being aconduit to trace back to your roots and
being able to do that with a word too.
So I pick a word that I reallylike because I get to like words
because I don't know Kurdish I getto look at it from the outside and
(14:31):
go, Oh, I really like that word andreally explore it like it's new.
And so I pick a word.
I write about the etymology of theword and the roots and what it means.
And I love that there's no direct littletranslation for a word because it's
so much from the earth it comes from.
much like food is, right?
(14:53):
Produce is.
So I love like aligning the two andkind of weaving them into each other
and then just coming up with a recipe.
And it's been my way of, again,like coming to terms with
what my identity means to me.
And, and now I'm in a place where Ithink it's exciting that I'm this,
(15:14):
like, would vagrant be the right word?
I
Lucy (15:17):
think it's a nice, yeah, I feel like maybe it has a derogatory connotation.
Doesn't it?
Does
Melek (15:21):
it?
But
Lucy (15:22):
I think that's probably a reflection on us.
Right.
The people that have decided thatit's negative to move around.
Yeah.
And have no fixed sense of home.
Yeah,
Melek (15:33):
so it's like, although I have a very fixed sense of, I'm from London.
Yeah.
I don't have a fixed senseof, like, what that means.
Yeah.
And.
It just means that you,you're just resourceful.
I feel like it's just, it meansI'm resourceful and just throw
whatever at me, I'll, I'll make it,like, I'll root it in something.
Lucy (15:53):
Yeah.
I love how you approach your columnsso much because I think so much.
A food writing is about authority andbeing like an expert on something and I
think there's absolutely room for that.
I think there are some, I think thereare some writers that do it badly,
but I think there are some writersthat do it really beautifully.
But I also think there's so muchspace to like sit between things
(16:14):
and be like, you know, I don'tknow, but this is how I feel.
Melek (16:18):
Right?
And I get to, yeah, like, I love that,because how can anyone be the, I find
it all so absurd, like, assuming you're,you have authority on anything in life.
Yeah, I agree, yeah, I totally agree.
And so, like, anything in life, so,I How could you have the audacity?
Yeah, I love that word, actually, becauseI think immigrant energy, as I call it,
(16:39):
is, like, Like having the audacity toexist, having the audacity to, to try to
speak English and like, do it confidentlyand just be creative and resourceful.
And when it comes to authority, thatis just like authority over anything.
I think it's, we learned, you know,we've had to learn quickly that
(17:00):
it's absurd and it's corrupt often.
And so just to be able to.
Move around and be flexible with it.
I think of the first interviewactually before I had the column
like Jonathan the editor of it toolsReached out wanted to do an interview
and we actually did the interviewon Green Lanes In the Albuquerque
(17:23):
restaurant, and he said he asked meat the end I think towards the end of
the interview, what is Kurdish food?
He asked me, and I said,it's anything I make.
Right.
It's anything I make, because I'mKurdish, so it's Kurdish food.
And I had, I guess I had the audacityto say, I had to have the audacity to
(17:45):
say that, because who else would give methat right or that authority otherwise?
No one.
If I gave my authority and my autonomyto someone else, They would say I have
no right over anything because I don'thave a, an official place I'm from.
So I have to grab that authority andthat autonomy and that audacity to
say, well, it's whatever I cook, mate.
Lucy (18:11):
So you talked about when you started going to Green Lanes and you
said that there were loads of firsts.
Melek (18:16):
Yes.
Lucy (18:17):
And I wondered if there were any other like notable firsts
that you wanted to talk about?
Melek (18:22):
Absolutely.
My, my first first in London,like my, my first My earliest
very distinctive food memory, Iwould say, is, I think I was five.
So, we came here when I was four.
I think I was five and myparents, um, were visiting a
friend who had a calf in Archway.
(18:45):
I just remember being a kid being takenaround places all the time, right?
The things adults needed to do.
So, it was like not a childhood oflike, What children wanted necessarily,
it's just like, yeah, they werefiguring out work and where to live
and all this, like trying to figure,so it's all by, like, word of mouth.
You hear someone's got a job somewhereand you go, and I remember, like,
(19:08):
all my early memories of London whenwe first arrived was, like, grey.
Harshness, everything felt harsh,like people felt harsh and every,
because it was so unfamiliar andour massive family wasn't around us.
So it felt cold and harsh in loads of waysand grey, like the colour feeling grey.
(19:30):
And then so we went to this caf and so wewere sitting at the table and mum and dad
were talking to this guy who ran the caf.
And on the table I sawthis bright yellow jar.
And Of, like, English mustard.
And I was so curious, becauseit was so bright and so yellow
(19:52):
in this, like, grey place.
You know, like, what felt,it was the brightest thing.
I, like, it was so, I was like, and it'son the table, and it's on all the tables.
And I just remember the adults speakingand thinking, Okay, no, you can't, you
can't touch it, you can't touch it.
They'll notice, they'll see you.
(20:13):
And I'm thinking, No,but I'm so cu what is it?
What is it?
And then as they were talking Igrabbed it and I opened it and it
just was like a punch in the face.
It was so abusive.
It was so violent and Iwas like, this is England.
(20:36):
Now I absolutely love it.
Like I mix it with yogurt and lemon andolive oil and make it into And so it's
like It's actually a story of how Ihave become more British and the UK has
become more Kurdish for me, like yogurt,the most significant, the most Kurdish
thing possible, meeting mustard and itworking and it being delicious together.
(21:01):
But that was my first meeting ofmustard and it wasn't friendly.
It is
Lucy (21:06):
really abusive.
It is, too, because
Melek (21:08):
It's not like horseradish does, right?
It's got that same quality.
And now I'm like, pleaseput mustard in my burger.
Please put it, you know, in my bagel.
I love the intensity of it.
I love it so much.
I love the color.
I like, Mustard yellow.
Lucy (21:26):
Yeah.
Melek (21:27):
Tablecloth.
Oh my
Lucy (21:27):
God.
Oh
Melek (21:28):
my gosh.
Wow.
Wow.
This is dramatic.
This is England.
This is England.
Yeah.
I upset the English clouds.
Literally a rural breakfast isyou're just tearing things, right?
Just placing them on a plate and youleaving it to you to just construct
(21:52):
however you want to eat it, right?
So it's literally, youdon't do much to it at all.
So I'm cutting off the roots from therocket and the spring onion and I'm just
going to place it on the plate like that.
(22:12):
People might be shocked by like havingwhole spring onion for breakfast.
Lucy (22:17):
No I love it.
Melek (22:19):
for the support.
So with these I'm just gonna,with the peppers because they're
quite, you just slice them.
Down the middle.
And you wouldn't use a chopping board.
So, you don't, that's, you don'tintervene any more than what you
(22:46):
can do with a knife in your hands.
So, nothing that requiresa chopping board.
Lucy (22:53):
I love that, you don't intervene with the produce.
No.
You just let it be.
Melek (22:57):
Let it be, if it's good.
You can let it be.
And look how gorgeous this tomato is.
Lucy (23:02):
That's beautiful.
Melek (23:03):
Dad, my dad would just tear this tomato.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't cut it.
He'd be like, what are you doing?
I'm trying to be a little more civilized.
Right.
Lucy (23:17):
That is the most beautiful plate.
Melek (23:20):
I'm going to sprinkle some olive oil, some lemon juice
and salt on it in a minute.
I'm just going to plate up someolives and feta cheese for us as well.
I'm going to cut this bread upand just cut some gozleme up.
So let's take these to the table.
Oh, let me drizzle itin olive oil actually.
(23:42):
Yeah, a bit of olive oil on this and thenI'm gonna actually put some black pepper
and can you pass me the Aleppo chili?
Absolutely.
It's um, that one, yeah, that one.
So there's two different types.
That one is a chunkier flake,and this, this one is, um,
finer, um, and slightly spicier.
(24:09):
But I feel like you can handleit, I just sense that you can.
I'm honoured.
A bit of sumac on the cucumber as well.
Lucy (24:16):
Ooh, yes!
Melek (24:17):
Ooh, I needed to boil some eggs, what's wrong with me?
Lucy (24:20):
What's wrong with you?
Shall I put these on the table?
Yes,
Melek (24:24):
please.
So when we first arrived, we stayedfor six months in my with my uncle
who was in Edmonton, Enfield area.
And then we got given a house,temporary housing in Muswell
Music (24:45):
Hill.
Melek (24:45):
So that was very north as well.
And then, yeah, we got moved to StamfordHill in, in Hackney, which is like kind
of northeast, like the, the kind of edgeof Hackney near Tottenham where I am now.
So I've always grown up here, youknow, Stoke Newton, Dawson, all the
Kurdish and Turkish community areas.
Yeah.
It's.
been where I always am.
(25:08):
Yeah.
Lucy (25:09):
And it's an area that's changed a lot, right?
Melek (25:12):
It has.
It has changed a lot, but I feel likeit stayed the same in a lot of ways
as well because of the resilience.
of the Kurdish and Turkishcommunity that I know
Music (25:23):
where
Melek (25:23):
they're always adapting.
So they've not, we've not disappeared.
We've not drifted anywhere.
We've just changed with the changingtides because there is such an
entrepreneurial spirit in our community.
So it's like, Oh, uh,you want a barista now?
Okay.
We'll be the bestbarista you've ever seen.
(25:43):
We know how to grow a beard, avery perfectly cropped beard,
and wear a trendy t shirt.
We know how to, like, we'll,okay, we'll turn everything into
organic wood, like, in our spaces.
We're on it.
We'll, we'll, we'll startorganic, uh, grocers, if you want.
You don't need to go to WholeFoods, we've got Harvest.
(26:05):
Right?
And like, there's thatingenuity, there's that tenacity.
We've got that survival instinct, andI think so, in a lot of ways, community
has stayed the same, as well, as itmanaged to survive and stay the same.
Lucy (26:21):
I feel like some of that ingenuity that you're talking about, I feel like
some of that is, at least some of itis, sort of goes uncredited, right?
And I feel like this is something youwrote about in the London Feeds Itself
essay, sort of, in that you talkedabout how the kind of community that
you and your parents, existed in whenyou first came to England and how
(26:42):
people in those communities went onto start, like, incredibly successful,
often food related businesses.
But it's almost like people kind ofgo to those restaurants and talk about
them and like, name drop them, butthey don't necessarily understand the
origin or the context, like, I feellike that was maybe something you were
(27:03):
getting at in, like, people who go to,like, Mangle 1, Mangle 2, or whatever.
Yeah.
There's maybe like a bitof the story missing.
Do you feel like that's
Melek (27:12):
true?
Yeah, yeah, I do feel like the story's,uh, story's missing, and actually the
essay came about because of that firstinterview with Jonathan, where he knew
I was feeling like The Kurdish communityspecifically was invisible in talking
about these restaurants that are great,but them being referred to as Turkish
(27:33):
restaurants when they're Kurdish owned.
The owners are referring to themselvesas Turkish restaurants because it's
more palatable and it's easier.
I felt like the journey and thatstruggle is lost in simplifying.
It's not as simple as it'sjust a Turkish restaurant.
Yeah, they are Turkish restaurantsbecause predominantly these are people
(27:56):
from Turkey, but we're Kurdish, andactually the kind of specific food you're
eating are from Kurdish regions often.
As well, because actually Turkish cuisineis so vast and so broad, there's, you
know, Mediterranean influence, Circassianinfluence, like, the Aegean, all these
different regions, because it's suchlike, the position, the, the geography of
(28:18):
Turkey, like, you know, being exposed toEurope and Asia and all, like, you know.
being part of the, like, silk route,as it's called, the trade, it does
feel important to be more specific.
And so the essay, the London FeedsItself essay, was an opportunity to
To be nuanced, and to kind of, a nod,an ode to that era, like, my parents
(28:46):
era of migration here, that had tobe private, and be in private spaces.
In hidden spaces as I say in theessay for so long and it took a lot of
struggle, a lot of beautiful struggle.
It was a very special time.
It was a close knit community then becauseof that mutual struggle but it took a lot
(29:07):
of hard work to come out into those publicspaces and be those public spaces people
know and love and have a right to love.
But I just thought it's a way,here are the places you love
and here's why you love them somuch and here's an opportunity.
To actually love them even more,
Music (29:25):
you
Melek (29:25):
know.
in the 80s and 90s when a lot of, youknow, Turkish political exiles and
Kurdish immigrants moved here, there wasvery limited option of what the work was
(29:48):
and it was a lot of textile factoriesand illegal textile factories often.
So when I say illegal, They werelegal, but there was a lot of people
working who didn't have work permits,who couldn't get work permits, right?
So these warehouses were mainly inHackney, some in Tottenham, Haringey,
(30:09):
some in Edmonton, but mainly inHackney warehouses, where you now know
as Hackney, Wick, and Dawson areas.
So the specific one I writeabout, well there's two that
I write about in the essay.
One is where Beyond Retrois now, that building.
So
Lucy (30:28):
the one that's kind of like up from Dawson Junction?
Yeah.
That one.
Melek (30:33):
So the Simpsons house, I think.
Um, um, and that used to be thetop, the floors were factories.
That's where my uncle was.
And then where Yeah.
Palm II Grocers is that building wherenow the the floor above the warehouse
That's where like people hire out thatvenue for supper clubs and do yoga that
(30:58):
used to be where my parents were andI talk about Those secret spaces now
being, you know, these trendy placesand even me having the experience of
going back in such an unplanned like wayand the visceral like reaction I had.
I start the essay talking about how myfriend Lee fancied this, this girl who
(31:25):
was like running supper clubs, veganones and He was like, so I needed to
be wing woman and go to one of theseChristmas pop ups that she was having.
So this vegan Christmas meal that we wentto, which was like, It was like 7 65 quid.
(31:45):
Was it like something like,look, I didn't pay for it.
I would not have, I thinkit was something like that.
Oh God, maybe I'm being outrageous.
Maybe it was 45, but still, still still45 for a flapjack with cold gravy.
No.
Was outrageous.
That's what we got.
We were told it was a nut roast.
(32:07):
That's a crime against nut roast.
I've had good nut roasts, I have.
That was a flapjack on the plate,and it was cold, I don't know, it
was just nothingness, and I hadto sit there, and then obviously
we went for a kebab afterwards.
But um, so he was like, Mel, we'regoing to this place, come meet me there
and I hadn't, I didn't know, like Ididn't think about where exactly it was.
(32:31):
So I rushed, I was running late and thenI rushed into this building and then I
went up the stairs and it suddenly feltso familiar and it took me back to when
I was like six and my dad taking meup these stairs when like after school
suddenly through these like double doorsand we walked The supper club venue,
(32:54):
but for me it was the factory where myparents worked, and I just reconstructed
that space, I knew where the sewingmachines were, I knew where the makeshift
kitchen was on the left, and where thesteam irons were right at the back, and
yeah, it was just so emotive, and yeah.
It felt so surreal sitting there andI think I felt even more resentful
(33:18):
about having a flapjack when I knew theincredible meals that happened in that
space, in that secret space, you know?
There was a cutting table in the middleof the factory, so where all the pattern
cutters would work and then give theircuts to the like people on the sewing
machines and that at lunchtime would turninto the massive sharing dining table
(33:41):
so they'd clear all the material off,dust it off and then put a massive cloth
which was made from all the materialsthere and then everyone would share what
they bought so like everyone had tinsand containers of different dishes from
dinner from the night before and it wouldbe warmed up in the makeshift kitchen and
(34:02):
then brought and then you'd create thismassive beautiful spread and someone had
put the tea on which is like two pots.
Turkish tea is pot of water andthe bottom pot and then tea leaves
like soaking in the concentrate,concentrated water brewing for you
know an hour before you serve it.
So you have the tea on before lunch isready and then just everyone gathering
(34:26):
around and it was just the most magical.
table of food that thesepeople who were living the most
desperate times in their life were
making
Lucy (34:46):
magic.
Yeah, against all the odds.
Melek (34:50):
Yeah, the most resourceful people.
And that's, those are the people whomade, you know, manga one and two and,
you know, zero one, I don't know, and allthese places, like, of course they did.
Of course they did.
If, if they could be in these secret,dusty warehouses where they had to
(35:16):
like, cover the windows with newspapersso no one knew they were there,
and they could create these feasts.
Of course they could make theserestaurants that everyone loved.
Yeah.
And it was just my way of going,Oh, you think this is amazing?
This is how amazing they are.
This is how amazing these people are.
Lucy (35:36):
I think it's, like, you know, hearing you talk about it now, and
reading the essay as well, it mademe think a lot about, like, I don't
know, maybe, like, the intentionspeople have behind opening restaurants.
Because, like, that Yeah.
That, just, kind of, The restaurantsthat the people that you're talking about
open, that came from a place of justwanting to feed and wanting to bring
(35:56):
people together and kind of, obviouslythey were doing it to make a living, but
there was, I feel like that's differentfrom a lot of other restaurants.
Maybe, I don't know.
I don't quite know how to articulateit, but there's something that feels
like it's just, it's a rich part ofan incredible culture and it's wanting
to, um, keep producing that, I guess.
Melek (36:21):
Uh, yeah, but I think that's like, that's true of a lot of communities, a lot
of, and, and I, I think it's so you, um,You know, when I think of the Bangladeshi
community in Bricklay, so what's knownas Indian food is predominantly was
the, you know, Bangladeshi community.
(36:41):
Yeah, that's a reallyinteresting parallel.
Yeah, of course.
Lucy (36:44):
Yeah, it's that erasure again of the, like, specificness of the thing,
because people can't be bothered to
Melek (36:53):
No, it's not that people can't be bothered, like, I think it's You know,
to be fair, it's just that, that timeand what, um, what a community were up
against and how they felt probably like.
They had to kind of present themselves.
What was easier, you know, I see in theI mean when you go to a lot of these like
(37:14):
what I say, Kurdish restaurants, but it'shard like it is if they're presenting
themselves as a Turkish restaurant.
Who am I to go and go?
Actually, sir, you're Kurdish, youknow it, you speak Kurdish, you know,
and when I ask you where you're from,you know, you're Kurdish, but you
still say you're, you're Turkish.
And who am I to?
suddenly challenge how theyidentify themselves, right?
(37:38):
Um, right.
But you know, it is really interestingwhen I make, when I write these
stories or like I do stories andvideos with aunties and communities.
Um, like I, I did this, um, video,uh, during the pandemic of these
women who would get together intheir garden to make bread together.
(37:58):
Um, such bread.
And you, you, you get together causeit's easier to make massive batches of
this bread and, you know, for each other.
That's like five women.
And amongst themselves, they're, they'respeaking Kurdish, you know, and I'll
ask them what they're saying becausethey're like Roaring with laughter,
(38:20):
you know, and you're watching themand you want to be in on it and you
go Oh, what are you talking about?
What's what's so funny?
You know, it's not funny in turkish andthey'll say it's not funny in turkish Like
they'll refer to themselves as turkish.
They'll go as turkish people andi'm like You, like, are you not
aware of this, like, Contradiction.
Contradiction, this dichotomy, andit's like, but who am I to raise that?
(38:45):
Because there's so muchcomplexity in that.
Lucy (38:48):
And you've talked about feeling that as well, right?
Yeah, and I
Melek (38:50):
do, and this is what I mean about this, This constant
battle that I, we always have withour identity, and that's okay.
Why do we have to sitcomfortably with who we are?
You know, it's not a given.
It's not an inanimate object.
Your sense of self is always changingand actually to be on your tippy
(39:13):
toes when it comes to self awareness,I think isn't a bad thing, right?
Right.
Rather than it being toosettled and it's like.
Lucy (39:23):
I think that's really interesting, particularly in the world that we live
in where like, that we sort of livein an era of like a personal brand.
And that feels like it's somethingthat has to be quite fixed,
otherwise people don't like it.
Yeah.
And that's really difficult, right?
Like, for the reasons that you'resaying, like, how do you navigate?
Like presenting yourself as aparticular thing when that's not fixed.
Melek (39:46):
No, it isn't it isn't but it's so liberating It's so liberating
to have no fixed sense of self
Lucy (39:55):
Yeah, yeah
Melek (39:57):
It took a long time for me to see it as a positive thing.
Lucy (40:01):
I bet yeah Yeah,
Melek (40:03):
but it is it is and also it just makes you feel So open, I think, and
really loving and accepting of anyoneelse and whatever they want to be.
And that's why I can't tellthose aunties, Auntie, um, aren't
you, I think you're Can ish?
No, like, that's not my place.
(40:25):
Auntie can be whatever she wants to be.
You know?
Another, like, really strongfood memory is like, my mum's
chickpea and lamb neck stew.
(40:49):
Well Or cannellini bean and lamb neck.
So it's a really, it's one of the, like,when in those basically old warehouses
and community centres, one of the firstdishes that was made and sold, like in
the community centres, was cannellinibean with lamb neck on rice, right?
(41:09):
On chickpea rice often.
And that was such a staple, andthe Halkiv, the Kurdish community
centre, was known for that.
Was known for that.
And It's just such a source of comfortand it's so, yeah, because I just
think of what, so basically BeyondRetro was the Kurdish community centre.
(41:32):
And it was that space where, uh,you'd go to, for people who helped you
with your bureaucracy, like fillingout forms, uh, you'd go if you had
a housing issue and someone wouldsay, oh, there's a, there's a flat.
You know, that you could go tothere or, and then you'd have
like wedding celebrations there.
You'd have like folk dancing classes andthen you had the kitchen, the canteen that
(41:57):
had The cannellini beans and lamb neck.
And then mum would make it at home.
And the secret was, with mum's one, wasthat she'd make it in a pressure cooker.
Lucy (42:08):
Mmm.
Melek (42:09):
So that made it extra special.
And there's a thing That ourcommunity have with pressure cookers.
It's a big deal having everyhome should have a pressure
cooker And it's an investment.
They're not cheap and you get a goodone and it's you have it for life
And it's the first thing you youget if your child's getting married.
(42:33):
It's the wedding gift It'sthe ultimate wedding gift.
So like Sometimes someone claimslike an auntie will go i'm going
to get this pressure cooker.
They'll claim it and it's likedamn it You What am I going to get?
So anyway, when I, back whenI was married, no one got me a
pressure cooker straight away.
It was so crazy.
(42:54):
I think mum really wanted to takeher time to select the right one.
Anyway, and my ex loved my mum'scannellini britter beans and lamb, but
she took a long time to tell, like,so she didn't, she wouldn't tell him.
The secret of, like, she makesit in a pressure cooker, right?
(43:15):
But she loved him dearly andobviously this was my childhood,
like, Sweetheart, we'd grown uptogether, that he was like a son.
And then we married and she was gettingready, she was like, It's time to tell
him, like, and, Because I've got to getthis pressure cooker and I've Tell him.
That's when I'll tell him.
And then, but four years into the marriageand she still hadn't like, told him.
(43:38):
And then this one day, um, wewent over and she had made it.
And he was like, you know,Auntie, I love this so much.
And he ate it and then he,like, he fell asleep on her lap.
She felt so like, oh,this is, you know, my son.
And then we, like, so shebought a pressure cooker.
(44:01):
Uh uh.
To give for our wedding anniversary.
And Four days before our weddinganniversary, we broke up, him and I.
And it was like, I was just pluckingup the courage to tell mum and dad,
like, that it's just over, right?
And I'm like, trying to pullmyself together to go tell them.
(44:26):
I, like, went away for two weeksand they were like, what's up?
Like, I've got this, youknow, like, what's going on?
Everyone's disappeared.
So I pulled myself together.
And was like, finally had the strengthto go to mum and dad and go, you
know, like, when it's, it's done.
I'll never forget that.
I, I sat down and dad, like, when Itold, and the minute dad heard, he was
(44:49):
the, the dramatic, he took, one who gotup and started pacing up and down the
house going, I can't believe it, what?
And then he, like, he disappeared downthe corridor and then come back, go,
and another thing, you know, yeah.
And just, he was just had.
An utter breakdown.
And so, Mum and I were likesilent, watching him like, just
(45:11):
have all these different thoughtsand these different emotions.
One minute angry, oneminute like, devastated.
And the next minute going,we're gonna get through this.
And then, and then wejust let him calm down.
And Mum was just likesilent the whole time.
The whole time.
And then like kind of, half anhour in when Dad had calmed down,
(45:32):
just there was this silence.
And then Mum said, I'm so glad Ididn't give him that pressure cooker.
And so she's just like, she's happy.
She's like, you didn't get the cafe,you didn't get that, but you got
the pressure cooker, you got thesecret to the stew, you're winning.
(45:55):
Wow.
Yeah.
That's an important stew.
It's a special stew and I never forget it.
But, and I never forget like, Allthe, like, all that it represents,
you know, in our community centreand how precious that stew is and how
precious a pressure cooker is, youknow, and what it means and I love that.
(46:22):
Okay, okay, we're ready,we're actually ready.
Wow,
Lucy (46:26):
sorry that took
Melek (46:27):
so long.
Lucy (46:28):
Oh my god, no, not at all.
This looks incredible.
We can Look at this beautiful table.
Lecker
(46:48):
is hosted and producedby me, Lucy Dearlove.
Thanks to Melek Adal for beingpart of this episode and for making
me such an incredible breakfast.
If you want to see photos ofit, they'll be on the Lecker
Instagram, at Lecker Podcast.
The second edition of London FeedsItself featuring, um, Mel's essay, along
(47:09):
with so much other fantastic writingabout food in London, is out now.
You can find it online orat a bookshop near you.
Music in this episodeis by Blue Dot Sessions.
And before I go, a reminder thatyou can sign up as a paid subscriber
to support Lecker on ApplePodcasts, Patreon, and Substack.
(47:29):
Links are in the show notes.
And to any paid subscribers whoare listening here, thank you so
much for your continued support.
It means a lot.
And if you're a Lecker listener that'slistened to one or more episodes
this year and you haven't left me areview on Apple Podcasts, even just a
rating, then please take a couple ofminutes out of your day to do that.
(47:52):
It makes a huge difference in howpeople find the show and it really
helps independent podcasters likemyself find and expand a new audience.
Thanks so much for listening.
I'll be back soon.
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