NEW: Shocking Crimes Across Virginia

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,
and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my
experience as the brother of a murder victim to help
other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book
on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders, and I'm the co
administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the
social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway
Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas.
Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
And I'm Bill Thomas.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
We are here today once again with a brand new
episode of Mind over Murder. And because it's been a
hot minute since we've done any sort of introduction other
than immediately jumping in, we figured we'd give you guys
a little update on things that are happening with us.
And of course the biggest news is that we are
about to travel to Crime Con in about two weeks.

(01:12):
I'm excited. Are you excited, mister Thomas.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
My head just snapped when you said two weeks. I
can't believe it's that close.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
I know, it's freaking me out a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
We have a lot of work to do between now
and then, so we are headed to Denver or crime Con,
which is September five, six seven. I'm looking forward to it.
I think it's going to be a very interesting crime con,
and as usual, there's a lot of people we want
to see and connect.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
With, absolutely, And one of the things that I do
like about crime Con is often it's in places that
I have not either had a chance to visit before,
like Vegas, or it's in places that I've been to,
but I'm happy to go there again, like New Orleans.
I've never been to Denver before, and I'm looking forward
to being able to spend a little bit of time

(01:59):
out and about seeing what Denver's all about and seeing
mountains that are not the Blue Ridge. Have you been
to Denver before?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
I have been only briefly. I was there years ago
when I worked for ASCATH and we were out there
for meetings, but I was only there for a couple
of days. I really liked it. It's very beautiful and
of course the mountains are in the background almost all
the time. Typically you'll have about five to six thousand
people and then several hundred subject matter experts. It's always

(02:27):
a really interesting mix of people. Of course, we'll be
on what they call Creator's Row. We'll have a Mindover
Murder booth there, So if you're in town, please stop buy.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, we have some new stickers that I designed, and
we just got the order of those stickers in the
other day, Like I just got them and I'm staring
at the box of them. They're very good looking, if
I do say so myself. We'll have our postcards. And
I do have some merch that I'm looking to debut.
I've been making some mind Over or bracelets with beads

(03:01):
and semi precious stones and all sorts of things. I'm
going to debut those. We'll see how it goes. If
they prove to be popular, we'll figure out away maybe
an Etsy shop or something like that where people can
order them. That's something I'm looking forward to. So, yeah,
if you plan on being at crime Con, please stop by.
S Yes, we are booth. Wait, I have that booth number.
We are Booth seventy seven on Creator's Row, so please

(03:24):
do stop buying and see us. We're looking forward to
seeing all of you.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
And if there's anything I'm all about, it's the semi
precious stones. I'm going to be wearing a glitzy mind
Over Murder bracelet.

Speaker 3 (03:36):
They are very nice and I went wild at the
bead store looking for wonderful, beautiful, one of a kind
type of beads and gems, so it'll be fun. I
will make you an extra pretty one.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Oh, I am so excited about it because I'm really
all about jewelry.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
You can you're very much a jewelry person. It's been
a heck of this summer and we are looking forward
to moving to Fall a little bit more. We did, however,
have some sad news here just at the end of
the summer, and I'm going to let Bill talk about that.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, my older brother, Richard Thomas, passed away a couple
of days ago, and this was not unexpected. Richard was
seventy two years old and a retired Navy doctor. Unfortunately,
coming up on about three years ago, he was diagnosed
with lung cancer, and of course, when you hear lung cancer.
Usually think a smoker, but Richard's none of those things.

(04:32):
He didn't smoke, didn't drink, took fantastic care of himself.
He was an athlete of his entire life. He was
a runner, a biker, a swimmer. He took great care
of himself and was careful about what he ate. As
a Navy doctor, he had graduated from the Naval Academy
in nineteen seventy five, from Georgetown Med School in nineteen

(04:54):
seventy nine, and then he went on to get a
master's degree at Johns Hopkins. Came an epidemiologist, which is
someone who practices medicine and their goal is to try
to prevent disease outbreaks exposure to hazardous chemicals and other materials.
We think, actually that Richard's lung cancer, which was diagnosed

(05:16):
as stage four, is related to his naval service in
that he was a ship's doctor in the early part
of his career aboard the USS Guam, which was a
helicopter landing craft. On these old Navy ships, they were
riddled with asbestos. His job was to always protect his
Navy a Marine Corps personnel from exposure to things like asbestos.

(05:40):
I remember him telling us when he was a young
naval officer. How every time they did work on the Guam,
they'd be moving bulkheads, which is Navy talk for walls,
and cutting pipe and that sort of thing. I remember
him telling us the ship would be filled with visible
asbestos flying everywhere. He was always trying to limit their

(06:02):
exposure to it. But remember he was being exposed at
the same time. So a couple of years ago he
was diagnosed with terrible back pain and when they went
in and took a look, they realized that he had
lesions on his spine which were related to the spread
of his lung cancer. He survived for another nearly three years.

(06:23):
That would have been in the fall, almost three years ago.
It was a very tough fight, and he had chemo
and radiation, much like I did in my cancer treatment
about eleven years ago. But ultimately we knew that this
was not going to have a happy outcome, and he
passed away last weekend. He and his wife Anne have
three kids who are all grown now, and the older

(06:45):
two boys, Ross and James, are both Navy helicopter pilots.
Then our niece on a rouchen is just wrapping up
not one but two master's degrees, Wow, from Notre Dame,
and she's now working for Bank of America. And they're
all amazing young people, and it's too bad they're such slackers.
I can't seem to get anything done. I'm totally teasing.

(07:08):
They're amazing people. I know this is going to be
a difficult time for my sister in law Anne and
for James. Ross and Ona will be getting together in
October for a memorial service for him. Sad news. As
I said, not unexpected, but still difficult.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
It is so sad because I remember when you told
me that Richard was diagnosed, how much I was hoping
that there were going to be answers in this case
before he died. And so when we got that big
break in the case back a year ago, more than
a year ago, now, I remember just hoping, Oh my gosh,
I really hope that we have some final answers here

(07:46):
for Richard, so that he has an understanding of what
happened to his younger sister. And so I my heart
breaks for you and your family because I know this
is not the end that you wanted for Richard or
for anybody. But our thoughts in prayer are with you.
Everybody's are. I know our listeners think the world of you.
We're with you, We're very We're sorry about Richard.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Thank you. The navy thing is very important. Both Richard
and Kathy are Naval Academy grads six years apart, he's
class of seventy five, she graduated in nineteen eighty one.
It would have been very important to Richard to get
those answers prior to his death, and I'm sorry to
say that won't be the outcome that we were looking for.

(08:30):
He went through a very difficult time when Kathy died.
I'm not sure if I ever talked about this, but
when Kathy was murdered in the Colonial Parkway murders, it
came to Richard to identify her body. He still talked
about how difficult it was, and it always broke my
heart when he talked about going in and seeing Kathy,
whose body was in terrible condition. They covered her up

(08:52):
all the way to her chin, and they had cleaned
her face, but it still haunted him all those years later.
It was really a terribly difficult situation. Bob Dowski actually
talked about having to do the same thing with his
sister Becky Kathy's girlfriend right around the same time. Of course,
it's part of the regret of this case is that,

(09:13):
as you've mentioned before, Kristen, with these passing years, we
lose more and more parents in the Colonial Parkray murders,
and now we're losing siblings, and that makes it even
more difficult to watch your family pass on without the
answers that they're seeking.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
We hope if the FBI's analysts are still listening, please
take that to heart and help us. We need answers
now more than ever.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Yeah, conversation for another day.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
We wanted to follow up on three of the crime
stories across the Commonwealth that have captured our attention over
the last couple of weeks, but that may not have
received the kind of national media attention that would have
allowed all of our listeners to hear about them. These
really are some very interesting, but very chilling and strange
case is that have been on my mind for the

(10:02):
last couple of weeks and months as they've unfolded across
the state of Virginia, the Commonwealth of Virginia. I should say,
I want to start with this just very chilling case
that was brought to our attention from earlier this month
by one of our friends of the podcast, and that
is Thomas Holsinger. We actually featured Thomas way back in

(10:24):
I think season one, right Bill. I think he was
one of our early guests. Thomas had posted this on
his Facebook page, and I was interested enough in hearing
about this story that I messaged him and said, tell
me a little bit more about what you know. The
reporting on this is compiled from WDBJ seven, which is

(10:45):
one of the major affiliates out of Rennett, and WHSV three.
This particular crime took place on Sunday, August third, twenty
twenty five, in Rockingham County, which is outside of Harrisonburg,
r Jinny. I think the actual name was Timberville. So
on Sunday, August third, the Rockingham County Sheriff's Office responded

(11:07):
to a call for help from the thirteen thousand block
of North Valley Pike. The call was from sixty five
year old Michael Hatcher, who was the homeowner. He was
found in the driveway of his home, visibly injured. Also
in the driveway was the body of Kevin Moses Walker,
age forty one, of Pikesville, Maryland. Mister Walker had entered

(11:32):
the Hatcher's home in a home invasion and stabbed sixty
two year old Holly Hatcher to death before attacking her husband, Michael.
The altercation moved outside into the driveway, at which point
Michael Hatcher shot the offender to death with a handgun

(11:52):
that he kept in his vehicle. Hearing that all by
itself was enough to make me go.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Wow, Ye, it's very strange. Even the basic circumstances of
the murder and mister Hatcher shooting Walker to death in
the driveway of the home, the whole thing just seems
like a completely out of control situation.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
In an attempt to clear up what was rapidly becoming
gossip and speculation, and just to keep the community informed
as to what happened, four days after the incident, Thursday,
August seventh, the Hatcher family and the Rockingham County Sheriff's
Office issued a joint statement to well the beginning gossip

(12:37):
that was happening in the community. This was a televised
press conference. I was able to watch it. Press conference
began with this statement from Spencer Hatcher. He is the
son of Michael and Holly Hatcher. The interesting spin that
the national media put on it once it caught. The
story almost a week and a half later, is that

(12:57):
Spencer Hatcher is an up and coming country singer. His
agent compared him to George Strait. I do not listen
to country, but I assume that's a good reference.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
It is George Straits, considered one of the greatest country
singers who's ever stood before a microphone.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
I figured you would know it music guy, But I
don't listen to country. Unfortunately. I think that's probably a
black mark against me as a Southerner, but it's not
something I spent a lot of time with. But yes,
Spencer Hatcher is an up and coming country singer. So
this was actually rather a big deal, not just for
this area of Virginia, but also for this rising in
popularity singer. So Spencer Hatcher made the first statement of

(13:37):
the press conference. He thanked the community for their support.
He discussed why he felt there was a need for
a joint statement from his family and the Rockingham County
Sheriff's office. He said he felt it was important to
make clear the events surrounding his mother's tragic murder because
he wanted to make sure that everyone was clear on
the sequence of events and that there was no further

(13:58):
gossip in speculator inside the community. After that, he did
turn the floor over to his father, Michael. Michael Hatcher
did have bandages on his forearms. They looked consistent with
defensive injuries. The extent of his injuries was not listed
in any of the news articles that I've read. I
would assume if someone is attacking me with the knife,

(14:20):
probably you're going to hold your forearms up in a
defensive gesture, and I'm guessing that's why the bandages were
on his forearms. He started with a very simple statement.
He said, there is no way for you to know
the trauma, the pain, and the unanswered questions that I've
had about this terrible tragedy. Each of you have made
it much more bearable due to your outpouring of love, carrying, kindness,

(14:43):
and support, and for that I thank you very much.
He also extended his thanks to the Rocking and County
Sheriff's Office and Sheriff Brian Hutchinson for their work on
the case. He made sure to thank the staff of
the Sheriff's office. He said they not only took very
good care of his family emotionally, but he said that
during the three days that the crime scene was closed

(15:04):
off to the family, the Sheriff's office staff took care
of the family's pets. They brought clothing and other necessities
to the family and just made sure that they were
as well taken care of as they could be in
the wake of such a terrible tragedy, which I'm very
glad to hear of. That's the kind of community policing
that you want.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, I thought this was very, very kind and thoughtful
of the sheriff's staff to take care of the pets,
and during those couple of days when the crime scene,
which is what the house became, was closed off, I
thought it was really above and beyond what you'd expect
from a law enforcement agency.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Rockingham County's Sheriff, Brian Hutchinson spoke next. He opened with
a statement about his own close relationship with the Hatcher family.
His kids, for example, had all had Holly Hatcher as
a teacher in elementary school. Yeah, with small communities like that,
the tragedy, just as we've always said, the tragedy ripples outwork.

(16:02):
It isn't just the immediate family, it's everybody else in
the community. Sheriff Hutchinson took the time to clarify the
timeline surrounding the events of that attack, and he actually
started with the time that the offender, Kevin Walker Moses,
came onto the law enforcements radar, and that was on Friday,

(16:24):
the first of August, two days before the attack itself.
So I thought this was very interesting that he wanted
to break it down this far. And again, I can
only assume based on some of the discussion that he relayed,
that there had been maybe some speculation, some of it
not based in truth, or some of it unwarranted about

(16:44):
when the Sheriff's office became aware of this offender.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
And so much about this case is still unexplained. I
think one of the things the sheriff is trying to
do is tell the public what we do know about
this incident and the very range behaviors that led up
to it. Even looking at the articles, it's still not
clear why this attack happened.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Sheriff Hutchinson said that based on the work that they're
investigators and the Virginia State Police investigators did, they determine
the following pieces of information with regard to this case.
They noted that on Friday, August first, the offender rented
a campsite at Endless Caverns. Endless Caverns. For anybody who

(17:29):
is outside of the state of Virginia and is not aware,
it is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. It's
a big set of beautiful caverns that you can take
tours of. The most famous ones here in Virginia are
probably Loray Caverns Endless Caverns. I've actually never been to them,
but I'm told they're absolutely stunning, and they're one of
the many attractions here in Virginia for people who are

(17:50):
big into caves, caving, all the really interesting sort of
underground sort of things. So he rented a campsite at
Endless Caverns, and he also paid for a two tour
of the caverns on that Friday. Later that afternoon, according
to the Sheriff's office, he purchased a sleeping bag, which
makes sense if you've run at a campsite, but he also

(18:11):
purchased a knife at the Timberville Walmart. CCTV footage did
share the offender leaving with those items, so that's the
first time they really marked him on their radar. The
next day, Saturday, the second, Virginia State Police received a
call for a disabled and damaged vehicle on the road
to Endless Caverns. Ultimately, the vehicle belonged to Walker. VSP

(18:34):
officers went to Endless Caverns and they found that the
Caverns store had been rammed by a vehicle and broken into.
The damage on the store like matched the damage on
the vehicle. It was determined that the offender used a car,
rammed the store and then he broke into and entered

(18:54):
the caverns itself, because to get to the caverns you
have to go through it a doorway through the visitors center.
VSP begins searching for him. Where is he? Is he
in the caverns, outside of the caverns? Where is he?
We don't know. The offender ultimately was not found. That
is when VSP decided, Okay, maybe we need a warrant

(19:15):
for this guy and we need to figure out where
he is. That was the last time that there was
any evidence of the offender in the area until that
emergency call from Michael Hatcher at eleven fifty eight pm
on Sunday, August third, So his whereabouts are unaccounted for
between the time he entered Endless Caverns until after he

(19:35):
arrived at the Hatcher home and murdered Holicatcher. There had
been some question in the local community about whether or
not the offender had been seen in any area outside
of Endless Caverns, and he said no. He said Virginia
State Police did not receive any calls about the offender.
Rockingham County Sheriff's office did not receive calls about the offender.

(19:58):
The only time it got a call eleven fifty eight
on Sunday, augustern At the end of it all, the
sheriff said, in his thirty one years in law enforcement,
he had never seen anything like this. He said, it
is a random attack. He noted that it is extraordinarily unusual,
especially because the offender did not have a history of violence.
That anyone has been able to find what prompted this.

(20:21):
We have no idea, and I'm very interested to know
if that is something anyone will be able to ascertain.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
This almost sounds like some sort of mental breakdown because
we're not even aware of any relationship between Walker and
his victims.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Now he's from Maryland. Have found no link between them
at all. This is the part that made me go,
what in the world is happening here?

Speaker 2 (20:46):
What else is on too, is that Moses hayes for
and apparently goes on a tour of endless caverns, but
then the next day he's crashing his car or truck
into a fence or gate and mashing into the door
of the Endless Cavern's store. Whole thing just seemed so bizarre.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
It was very odd. The follow up article that I saw,
and there hasn't really been much of one because I
don't think they know anything else. But the one follow
up article that I saw said that he was, by
all accounts, very polite, yes ma'am and no Sarah. To
everybody that he encountered on the tour. He was quiet,
he kept to himself, did not arouse any suspicion in

(21:31):
any way. I'm with you, Bill, I feel like this
might be some sort of mental break. I can't think
of any other way to account for that.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Unless you can show us a connection between Moses and
the Hatcher family. I don't know why he would kill
Holly Hatcher and attack her husband. This doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Very unusual, very strange, especially an unpremeditated, random stranger attack.
For someone with no history of violence. Absolutely bizarre, and
that's really what kind of brought this to my attention.
So thank you to Thomas for putting that on our radar.
And if we hear anything else about this investigation, we'll
keep you all informed.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
You're listening to Mind over Murder, we'll be right back.
After this word from our sponsors, we're back here at
mindover Murder.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
An even more confounding attack and one that is terrifying
in a very different way, took place in Danville, Virginia
on July thirtieth, So this was just a couple of
days before the home invasion at the Hatchet family.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
For us non Virginians, help us out with where is Danville?

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Danville is near the North Carolina state line, and this
is another one of those stories. When it broke on
my phone and started blowing up on my social media feed,
the only thing that I could think at first was
is this actually real? Absolutely confounding. I remember I called
you and I said have you heard about this? And

(23:01):
you hadn't, And I told you about it and you
were gobsmacked for a minute, which is it's hard to
find Bill without words, guys. I managed to find him
without any in response to this.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Like the first case, this one is very bizarre as well.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
So Danville City Councilman Lee Vogeler, aged thirty eight, was
attacked by twenty nine year old Shatzi Michael Buckhayes that's
a hyphenated last name in his office at Showcase Magazine,
where he serves as the director of Marketing. Buck Hayes
broke into the office board a five gallon bucket of

(23:39):
gasoline on Vogeler. When Vogeler ran outside after yelling for
his magazine colleagues to dial nine to one one, buck
Hayes set Vogeler on fire and fled the scene. That
idea of setting someone on fire, A, that's terrifying, and B.
I cannot imagine what sort of twisted mind you must

(24:01):
have for that to be the first thing that occurs
to you to do to somebody, Oh, I'll set them
on fire. I can't even conceive of that. Based on
what we know so far, and I've been checking on
this story quite often, there is still nothing here about motivation.
The attack was not politically motivated. It stemmed from quote,

(24:23):
a personal matter not related to the victim's position on
Danville City Council, and that's according to Danville Peaty. Now
there has been a little bit of I would say
inferencing going on by people who are familiar with the story,
because we do know that prior to this attack, Shatzi
Michael buck Hayes was being served with divorce papers by

(24:47):
his wife, and people have inferred maybe the personal matter
has something to do with this serving of divorce papers.
I don't have any way of knowing that. I think
the only people who you know that are probably the
two people who are most intimately involved in this. So far,
no motive other than personal matter not related to the

(25:08):
victim's position on Danville City Council has been announced.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Where Lee Vogler works is a magazine that's designed to
highlight all the great things that are going on in
that part of Virginia. Of course, then he serves on
the city Council. So here's this magazine which obviously puts
a positive spin to what's going on in that part
of southern Virginia, and mister Vogler, in his work on

(25:32):
the city council would obviously be trying to put the
best public face forward for Danville. And then there's this
bizarre attack on him at his place of work.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Mister buck Hayes was picked up after leaving the Showcase
offices after setting mister Vogler on fire. When police interviewed him,
he did admit that it was his intention to kill Vogler.
Either he didn't say why or the police are withholding
the why the personal matter. Mister Buckey's is being held
without bail. He has been charged with attempted first degree

(26:05):
murder and aggravated malicious wounding and his preliminary hearing is
set for September thirtieth. And this is another thing that
I really am interested in keeping my eye on because
this is such an interesting case. Lee Vogler's wife, Blair,
has been keeping everyone in the community up to date
on his condition. At last check, he had suffered burns

(26:28):
over sixty five percent of his body, mostly his torso
he will remain hospitalized for the next six months and
will need a series of surgical procedures. Showcase Magazine set
up a go fund me for the Vogler family. They
initially set the price they were looking to raise at
one hundred thousand dollars. It rose since to two hundred

(26:48):
and fifty thousand that takes into account medical care for Lee,
travel expenses, and then lost wages from both his job
and his wife's job. Currently, the go f me has
raised one hundred and forty three thousand dollars. The last
I heard on August nineteenth, the latest update on his

(27:09):
condition was that he was able to stand for the
first time with the help of a physical therapist. He
was taken off of a ventilator after receiving a tracheostomy,
and he can now speak, but only a couple of words.
He is scheduled for more surgery next week. His injuries,
according to the Famili's go fundme page, will permanently impact

(27:30):
his and his family's lives, and the sheer amount of
financial resources required for long term care is difficult to estimate.
He faces multiple surgeries and extended hospitals day and months,
if not years of rehab.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Burns over sixty five percent of your body are really serious.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
I cannot even imagine the amount of pain and trauma
that poor man is going through.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
It's just horrible. This case. It did make national news.
Oh yeah, a very strange and sad case. I was
initially baffled by this guy's name Shatzi, Michael buck hayes
it sounds like a made up character from a comic
book or something. We're still not clear on what the

(28:16):
motivation is here. I think the fact that he was
going through a divorce just weeks prior probably has something
to do with this.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, I would imagine. So there's of course been a
ton of gossip and speculation online. Anytime you looked at
the comments section for any of these stories, it was
just rife with people assuming they know what happened, or
they had to make a guess as to what happened. Obviously,
we cannot really know the circumstances here unless someone says it,

(28:46):
so I think in cases such as this it's better
not to speculate. I just can't imagine what makes a
person wake up one day and decide not only today
I choose violence, but today I choose to maim somebody,
and one of the most horrific ways I can possibly imagine.
The idea of being set on fire is terrible and terrifying.
That's nightmare material for me.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
From everything I've read and heard, being burned in this
manner is among the worst possible ways to be attacked.
I'm truly amazed that mister Brogler survived, and it looks
like this is going to be a long, slow, painful recovery.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
The final case we wanted to talk about is one
that is just another and a long list of suspicious
deaths at military bases in the United States. We know
this is a problem. We've reported on several of them before.
Probably the most notable, I think was Vanessa Gien. This

(29:44):
case here is local and it is very upsetting. That
is the heartbreaking case of Angelina Rescindas, a sailor at
Naval Station Norfolk. On June ninth, Angelina Petrorissindez, twenty one,
was found to ceased in a wooded area near Broad
Creek in Norfolk, which is ten miles from the naval base.

(30:06):
The timeline is really murky here in relation to her disappearance.
It took me quite an effort of piecing together information
to try to get an accurate timeline, and finally I
just had to go to someone else's reporting on the
case because so much had been written in our local media.

(30:28):
There were too many stories. I was having trouble aggregating
all of my sources. Here, I'm going to read out
from People magazines reporting on the case, and hopefully we
can shed a little bit more light on what happened
to this twenty one year old sailor. The last reporting
that was done was in July. Even local media here

(30:48):
has not done a great deal with this case, and
I am really curious about why, because there's multiple facets
to this that I think deserve discussion. This is from
People magazines reporting this. Previously said that Angelina Petro Rissindez
was last seen at her barracks in Miller Hall at
Naval Station Norfolk on May twenty ninth. She was later

(31:09):
found dead in an off base wooded area days later.
A Department of the Navy memo obtained and published by
both CBS affiliate WTKR and NBC affiliate WAVY sheds more
light on the timeline of events tied to Riscindez's death.
In the memo sent to Texas Representative Henry Queller, the

(31:31):
Navy confirmed that Riscindez, who was assigned to the USS
James E. Williams prior to her death, was last seen
at the barracks of an unnamed sailor around ten am
local time on May twenty ninth, During a wellness check
on another sailor for the memo. Risindez was on authorized
liberty on May twenty nine, meaning she had no assigned

(31:54):
duties on the ship that day and was not required
to muster with her chain of command and bi from
a Navy family, so I assume that a lot of
this is familiar to you.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
It sounds like the USS James E. Williams might be
import or perhaps in dry dock. She clearly has no
assigned duties that day and so she wasn't required to
be on board this ship during that timeframe.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
So the reporting continues. The Naval Station Norfolk Base Police
first conducted a wellness check at five point forty five
am that day when an officer reported he could not
locate c SSN Risindez after she contacted him requesting to
be picked up at the barracks.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
But those two last bits of reporting contradict each other.
If they're saying Riscendez was on an authorized liberty and
was not required to muster with her chain of command,
which is how the day starts early in the morning
when the crew checks in, I don't understand then why
they're reporting he couldn't locate sailor Verscendez, because if she

(33:04):
wasn't due to be on board the ship that day,
why are they looking for her? And then what's this
wellness check situation? It sounds like somebody's jammed up in
some way or another and they're checking on their whereabouts
to make sure that person is okay. So there's some
stuff that's going on here in the background that's not
really being made very clear. It almost sounds like someone

(33:27):
was not well or in a hazardous kind of situation.
Why you send someone out on a wellness check.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
It says. Police eventually entered her room and she was
later located in the room assigned to another sailor hours later,
so wellness check at five forty five, they found her later,
and then she was expected to muster or check in
for duty at seven thirty am the following day, May thirtieth,
but did not report.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
But then keep going It gets even more curious.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Nine am on May thirtieth, another wellness check was conducted
on both her room and the room of the other
sailor whom she was last seen with. Neither sailor was located,
according to the timeline of events provided by the Navy.
The other sailor's name has not yet been released.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
There's something not right about this. There's something off about this.
So we're talking about two wellness checks two days in
a row. Are we talking about someone that's struggling with
a mental illness issue? Drugs? Alcohol? Why is Norfolk based
police checking up repeatedly on at least two individuals?

Speaker 3 (34:43):
That is why I was having so much trouble compiling
all of this. There are so many conflicting stories here.
People's reporting continues here. The new details come weeks after
Marshall Griffin, an attorney who represents Riscindez his mother, told
WAVY that the the Navy confirmed a man named Jeremiah
Copeland was detained or confined on suspicion in the case

(35:07):
following an initial review officers hearing at the Navy Consolidated
Brig in Chesapeake. The interesting part about having a name here,
Jeremiah Copeland, is that there's not been a lot put
out about this guy. In fact, very little has been
put out here in the local media about this case
other than the facts in question here, some of which

(35:31):
seem to contradict each other. The Navy has not released
cause or death. They have not released any formal charges
stated whether formal charges will be filed. They have not
stated whether her death will be classified as a homicide.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, there's something not right here, and this case begins
to remind me of the Vanessa Guienne case, where military
law enforcement doesn't seem to be dealing with this in
a straightforward manner of all this, Jeremiah Copeland, who apparently
is another sailor, was detained or confined on suspicion. This

(36:07):
is weeks and weeks ago months now, has he or
has he not been charged with being involved in her death?
And is her death a homicide? I know as you continue,
her family, who've interestingly already hired a lawyer, are clearly
not satisfied with the answers they're getting from the United

(36:28):
States Navy, and I don't blame them.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
Rassindez' mother, as Marelda Castle, has many questions for the
Navy related to how her daughter's disappearance was handled. Understandably,
so she did retain a lawyer, Marshall Griffin. He is
a former JAG officer who now serves as a military
defense lawyer in the private sector, and he has been
helping the family through this. So after her daughter disappeared,

(36:53):
and after her body was found, she appeared on local
media and said that she had a lot of questions
for the Navy related to the disappearance, and after her
daughter's body was returned home, she again appeared on media
with questions about the way that her daughter's body was
returned to her. And this part makes my blood boil,
and I'm sure that it makes sure is too, considering

(37:15):
the history that I know your family has with the military,
they should have treated this poor woman a whole lot
better than this. As Maurelda Castle stated that when her
daughter's body came home to Texas with full military honors,
she was quote sent home the way she was found,
she continued, her body was covered, she was infested with maggots,

(37:37):
with bugs and decayne. They didn't preserve her body.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
This is very bizarre. Now, if she disappeared Honor about
the twenty ninth and was found Honor about June ninth,
that means her body was probably out in this wooded
area for ten days. You would think that they would
have cleaned up her body after an autopsy. And again
there's no mention of an autopsy or cause of death here, right,

(38:04):
So this woman dies under at minimum, I would call
it mysterious circumstances. By the way, there's something here about
the Naval Criminal Investigative Service and CIS did confirm to
people that a Navy sailor had been placed in quote
pre trial confinement in connection with the case. So that

(38:25):
sounds like someone's going to be charged with murder or
manslaughter or something along those lines. I am baffled as
to why they haven't put out more information about what
happened to Siemen Rissendez and why her body was returned
in such horrible shape. Why wouldn't they have conducted an
autopsy and then prepared her body to be shipped home

(38:49):
in proper shape, not infested with maggots, bugs and decay
as her mother said.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Yeah, their lawyer, mister Griffin, reached out to the Navy
to determine what the is for preserving a sailor's remains
under suspicious circumstances. He said, quote the professionalism of the
interaction so far has been less than what I would
have expected under circumstances like this. My inquiries thus far
have not yielded any real answers. That's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, and once again, just like the Vanessa Guienne case.
There seems to be a pattern of shabby treatment of
military families who are looking for answers. They're dealing with
shocking news, and then somebody's got to explain to Msressenda's mother,
as morel the Castle, what the heck happened to their daughter.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
I want to give real props here to our Senators
Mark Warner and Tim Kaine, who immediately expressed their dismay
at all of this and drafted a letter to the
US Navy, which they released jointly on social media, in
which they asked for a full report from the Navy
on all aspects of Angelina Riscindez his case. They both

(40:00):
said the Navy needs to be held accountable. Senator Kane
said Miss Castle has a right to be deeply concerned
about this, and I did commit to her as a
member of the Armed Services Committee that I'm going to
be reaching out. We do have that letter here, and
I do want to go ahead and read that because hey,
it's very nicely phrased, but also it really gets to
the heart of the issues here. So this is the

(40:23):
joint letter from Senators Tim Kaine and Mark Warner. This
is addressed to the Honorable John Phalan, Secretary of the Navy.
Dear Secretary Phalan, we write to inquire about the Navy's
handling of the tragic death of Semen Angelina p. Ruscindez.
While we acknowledge the Navy's engagement with congressional offices to date,

(40:43):
ongoing questions and concerns related to the period of her disappearance,
the circumstances leading to her death, and the Navy's policies
and procedures throughout demand answers, we urged the swift and
thorough completion of the criminal investigation and an associated administrative
investigation as the Service examines the circumstances of Semen rescind

(41:03):
As his death. In response to our engagement, along with
that of broader congressional colleagues, the Navy has provided some
initial information related to this tragic case. As the Navy
continues its investigation, it is critical that you provide Congress
with significantly greater detail about the circumstances of Semen rescind As,
his disappearance and death, including a more fulsome accounting of

(41:25):
the Navy's engagement with Seamen rescind As, his loved ones
and fellow sailors who had raised concerns about her well being.
The information is vital in helping to fully understand the
response from the Navy as well as state and local
law enforcement. Additionally, we urge you to provide clarity around
the actions taken by the Navy upon first learning of
Semen rescind as his absence and Navy leader's adherence to

(41:46):
a range of protocols and procedures, including those outlined in
Milpersman sixteen hundred four O, which governs absent, enlisted and
officer personnel. Furthermore, we ask for detail on what investigative
steps were taken and when by the Navy and its
Naval and Criminal Investigative Service and CIS, as well as
the interactions with local and Virginia State police. Finally, we

(42:09):
reiterate our concern over the public accounts from the family
about the grief and anger caused by the condition of
Semen Riscindez's remains upon arrival in Texas. We have serious
questions as to what policies and procedures governed dignified transfer
of remains after an investigation and whether they were followed
in this instance. As you must surely understand your timely

(42:30):
response on these matters is especially important to community advocates,
Seamen Orscendez's loved ones, the broader Navy family, and members
of Congress. As such, we request a briefing from relevant
maybe and installation leadership by August fourteenth, twenty twenty five,
in order to further address a range of questions and
concerns about the case, from the initial reports of Seamen
Rescindez's missing status up to and including the return of

(42:52):
her remains to Texas. Sincerely, Tim Kane, US Senator, Mark R. Warner,
US Senator, And it is currently August twenty five first
as we are recording this, and to the best of
my knowledge, no additional information about this inquiry has come forward,
at least not in the news media that I've seen today.
At some point or another, I assume that they will

(43:12):
be announcing charges any other information. We will keep you updated.
That is going to do it for this episode of
Mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening, and
if you're headed to Crime con we hope to see
you there. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Mindover Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and another
Dog productions.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Our theme music is by Kevin McCloud.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Mindover Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
Murders on Facebook.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
Bill Thomas five six.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.

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