April 10, 2025 • 53 mins
What happens when creativity meets sharp market insight?
In this episode, Raffic Aslam (ex-Creative Director at Zoho) breaks down the 3 campaigns that defined Zoho’s global marketing playbook:
1️⃣UAE VAT Campaign – A masterclass in cultural targeting that unlocked a new market via a single character: Kutty, the Malayali accountant.
2️⃣ Made in India for the World – A bold declaration of Indian innovation for a global SaaS audience.
3️⃣Super Bowl Ads – Frugal but fierce, this campaign helped Zoho stand out in a sea of enterprise giants.
⏱ Timestamps
00:00 – Introduction
02:15 – The birth of the Zoho logo
06:30 – Why simplicity & color made the logo unforgettable
08:37 – Branding vs. Performance Marketing
14:25 – Campaign 1: UAE VAT Campaign – Meet “Kutty”
20:45 – Lessons from targeting expat accountants
23:02 – Campaign 2: Made in India, Made for the World
27:00 – Building pride in Indian-built software
30:55 – Campaign 3: Zoho’s Super Bowl Ad Strategy
35:10 – How Zoho kept it frugal but memorable
38:00 – Branding advice for SaaS founders
41:20 – Final takeaways for startup marketers
💡 Top Takeaways for Founders & Marketers:
✔️ Go deep, not broad: Hyperlocal targeting can unlock massive markets
✔️ Your logo is a strategy: Visual identity drives brand recall & lowers CAC
✔️ Brand building ≠ media spend: Authentic storytelling beats big budgets
🔔 Subscribe to Prime Podcasts for more insights
🎙 Hosted by Jerome Manuel, Head of Community at PrimeVP
📌 Follow us:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/primevp
Twitter: https://twitter.com/primevp_in
Website: https://primevp.in
#Zoho #SaaSMarketing #StartupBranding #IndianStartups #MarketingStrategy #B2BMarketing #MadeInIndia #SuperBowlAds #FrugalMarketing #GrowthMindset #PrimeVenturePartnersPodcast
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Zoho was actually an idea of one of our engineers.
You can miss anything, but notZoho logo.
He said this is the logo I'mproposing for Zoho.
He said go ahead.
It took maybe 15 seconds forhim to decide a logo for a
global brand.
That's how Zoho logo was born.
Zoho was nobody in that region.
This is the backstory.
Out of that, 60% 50% areIndians and in that 50% 40% are
(00:25):
Malayalis.
It was recorded in the ARMMstudio in Los Angeles.
How did this Super Bowl thinghappen?
We never pressed any of thealgorithms.
An outdoor spot outside theairport costs you 5 lakhs.
A spot inside the airport willcost you 25 lakhs, but this
inside out costs you just 1 lakh.
Competition wearing a suit?
(00:45):
Okay, and you'll find you knowone booth where people will be
signing black kurtas.
Like who are they?
We took pride in you know,celebrating our you know culture
and roots.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi, welcome to the Prime Venture Partners podcast.
This is your host, JeromeManuel.
Today, we have with us RafiqAslam, an exemplar leader from
Zoho.
Hi, welcome to the PrimeVenture Partners podcast.
This is your host, JeromeManuel.
Today, we have with us RafiqAslam, an exemplar leader from
Zoho.
So Rafiq has been part ofZoho's magnanimous journey,
helping it grow from a smallengineering company to a global
tech brand serving 100 millionusers in over 180 countries.
(01:21):
So he was responsible forglobal branding.
He managed 50 plus Zohowebsites and worked with a
global team executing digitalcampaigns that have possibly
appealed and transformed thebrand and also a lot of Indians
across the country.
Start with this question abouthelp us visualize what Zoho
looked like in 2004 and maybesome key milestones across these
(01:44):
21 years of journey with Zoho.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Sure, zoho was not Zoho when we started.
It was called as Advanet.
So the company was Advanet andwe had a small what I call as a
good on structure tucked into aninterior part of Chennai.
It's called Velachery and wewere into networking management
(02:07):
systems.
We were building networkmanagement applications and we
were doing pretty good.
We had only ManageEngine brandthen.
We never had Zoho.
Zoho was actually an idea of oneof our engineers who, actually
out of curiosity andexperimentation, he went on and
built a word processorapplication which is Zoho Rater,
(02:28):
which we still have now.
Another engineer did an onlineplanner tool which is called
Zoho Planner.
That was happening in paralleland I was part of Zoho Creator,
which was called as App Creator,which is a low-code platform
and back then there was noterminology or jargon of no-code
platform.
It was an online databaseplatform where people can drag
(02:52):
and drop fields and build theirown custom applications.
So the core USP was how can wemake a business user to build
custom applications on their own?
So I was leading the UX teamfor Zoho Creator and, out of
curiosity, I started creatinglogo for App Creator.
Even App Creator was not partof Zoho then.
(03:14):
It was all happening inside thecompany.
There are a lot of ideasgerming inside the company, a
lot of ideas evolving.
In one corner, we were buildingApp Creator.
In another corner, people werebuilding Zoho Writer and Planet
For AppCreator.
I had this idea of buildingblocks.
It's a process of buildingsomething With blocks.
(03:36):
You can create a home Withblocks.
You can create a ladder Withblocks.
You can create anything.
It also has a playful characterto it, right so, which actually
resonates with Zoho creator,which is actually letting people
to build custom applicationseasily.
Zoho had a four letter.
Okay, naturally, I had to bringin another fourth cube, rgby,
(03:59):
which was primary colors.
Okay, that's how Zoho logo wasborn.
And I had to show it to Sridhar, and Sridhar was in Pantry and
my manager and we both went toSridhar in Pantry.
I just showed him okay, sridhar, this is a logo I'm proposing
for Zoho.
He said go ahead.
(04:20):
That was.
That was the decision.
Like.
It took maybe, you know, maybe15 seconds for him to decide.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, a logo for a global brand, that's all got
it, so I think I'd like todouble click on the logo part of
it, okay so essentially thelogo we're all seeing of
multicolored ZOHO, somethingwhich you created and got an
approval in the pantry like in acouple of minutes, absolutely
right.
So maybe we'll kind of ask youto kind of explain what were you
(04:45):
thinking when you were creatingthis logo.
I think there is red in thefirst.
Maybe we'll hear it from yourgby, it's rgby.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No, this was not initially created for zoho.
It was created for app creator.
Okay, which is so great.
Now, okay, so zoho is a no, uh,application building platform,
right, low code platform.
So it was actually built,designed for that thing, okay,
so when we had this idea, wejust now played it without
thinking too much okay, so thattime, what was it called?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
like?
How did it translate to zoho?
That's what I'm saying.
Like.
When did the name zoho come?
How did this logo?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
go.
All this was happening inparallel, like no writer was no
happening in parallel.
Planner was happening.
A planner and crm was actuallyhappening in parallel.
Creator was happening inparallel.
We also had a no parallel.
We also had Zoho Mail, which isZoho virtual office.
So all these experiments werehappening in parallel.
And then, I don't know how itcame to me, I started to design
(05:36):
logo and it was applied throughall the products.
You can miss anything but notZoho logo, even if it is pasted
along all our competitions, evenif it's just no 20 pixel by 20
pixel, you can.
That logo stood out.
It has no four primary class.
Nobody could know miss thatlogo.
Okay, and that also actuallyhelped us in a way to know bring
(05:57):
down our no marketing, no cost,okay.
So when, when someone actuallyspending for more frequencies,
buying more frequencies, Ibought bought less frequencies
on media and even the ad recalllogo actually helped us create a
good ad recall and anotherimportant strategy this was a
serious idea not to confuse witha product, because we are
(06:20):
building a product like crazy.
Every month we had a new product.
He said let's keep all theproduct name simple.
I mean people should actuallyknow identify uh product usage
or product you know by by itsname.
Okay, if it is a crm, just nameit as those here.
Okay, if it is you know mail,just may name it as over mail.
(06:40):
If it is no email marketing,just name it as over campaigns.
Okay.
So everything was a suffix ofZoho, zoho Mail, zoho CRM, zoho,
whatever.
We had 20 products back then.
So when we started doingbranding activities, even for
one product for example, zohoBooks first thing people saw was
(07:02):
Zoho.
And if you had a Zoho CRMcampaign running in parallel the
product marketing campaignrunning in parallel people would
have already seen Zoho in amassive airport billboards.
I have seen this logo.
I've heard you go somewhere.
That's a kind of familiarity.
That logo actually helped usbuild in the market.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Got it Because you're also a UI UX designer.
So you're saying the reason forpossible attraction or even
this familiarity with the logois the usage of the primary
colors?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And also the shapes.
What is one thing that isactually stopping someone using
a software or digitizing theirsoftware?
It's not lack of knowledge,it's just the complexity of the
product.
The aversion towards a softwareis the complexity.
(07:57):
The moment you see somethingplayful see logo, branding, ad
is the first interaction anycustomer or consumer will have
with your product.
The moment you see a logo whichis simple, which is playful
right, it actually opens thefirst door.
Okay, for example, when we didZoho Books campaign in 2017 for
GSD, okay, I mean, we had Tally,who is a veteran in this market
(08:22):
, right, but we stood out.
We stood out.
And an interesting point isthat when we were actually
running a Zoho Books campaign,our sign-ups increased for Zoho
CRM.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How does it happen?
That will help.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, there's a spillover effect, right.
So whenever people saw ZohoBooks I mean Zoho Books on any
of the you know medium okay,they would visit zohocom and
there they will see you knowzoho crm and all other products.
That's one way of introducingall of all our products, okay,
and if someone has seen zohobooks ad, ad in outdoor and if
they encounter any of zoho crmno performance, you know
(09:01):
marketing, you know display,also youtube, or if they attend
any event they could relate oh,I saw you there, I saw you there
, right.
So logo is the first impression, right, got it?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Got it Nice.
I think that is lesson numberone for all startup founders
Make it very simple and playful.
I think that is my takeaway,because most of our target
audience are startup foundersand, specifically, I think this
episode will be very useful forB2B SaaS founders, right?
In that case, what are thebuilding blocks for founders who
(09:33):
are building brand andmarketing?
Right?
I think that will be reallyeffective to hear are most
misunderstood or indispensableaspect of a business by branding
.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It doesn't mean that you have to do an ad campaign,
you have to take a full page adNew York Times or Times of India
or do an airport ad.
It's not that.
Branding is that to tell to themarket who you are, how unique
you are among your competition,and if you have a point of view
on your market, on your audience, how are you communicating that
(10:15):
to the conviction?
That's that is branding.
For me, okay, it doesn't have.
It is not about no advertising,it's not about no buying media.
That's the second part, thesimplification strategy.
Okay, branding is identifyingwho you are and why did you know
, start this business and whatis the, what is the value that
you have, what is the commitmentthat you're giving to customers
?
Are you sticking those,sticking to those you know
(10:37):
convictions?
Right, that is branding got it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So, first is, who are you say, let's say, the
founders of Identified?
Who are they?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Then what happens after?
Okay, now the thing is that,see, generally no, you start
with the story.
Every startup company has aabout us.
No story, right, why theystarted, okay, but down the line
, if you take two years, I mean,the journey, the origin and the
pathway they are taking istotally different.
But that shouldn't be the case.
(11:07):
I'm saying, if you want to saythat, if you're entering into a
market where people are using asoftware which is bloated, or if
you're entering into a marketwhere the software is complex or
it's highly priced and you havea point of view saying that,
okay, I can offer this sameproduct, same stuff at a very,
(11:28):
very nominal price and I'm goingto make it super easy to use,
if that is your conviction, youshould stick to it for five
years, 10 years, and yourcommunication should reflect
that.
It's not that suddenly you takea turn and talk about no
performance and no powerfulfeatures in AI.
That can happen.
But your core differentiatingfactor is how simplified your
(11:51):
software is.
Among the other competitionsSimplification or whatever it
could be it is that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Got it.
So, one, first identify whothey are.
Two, and also sticking to whattheir core differentiation is
Exactly.
Now they have both these piecesgoing on.
So how do they take and whatare the various other blocks?
Say, for example, they're a B2BSaaS startup.
What else should they bethinking about?
For example, if they think thisis my online presence, this is
(12:18):
how I want to reach customers?
What?
How should they go aboutthinking it?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So that's what I'm trying to understand, or rather,
how did Joe go about thinking?
Maybe we can take lessons fromthat?
The thing is that now we nevergot into branding until 2014.
That's already 15 years Past 15years.
We focus only on productmarketing, okay, we never even
thought about investing inbranding.
Okay.
But after a point like all this,in the 15 years we focusing on
(12:45):
paid marketing, which isprimarily adverts, then we
started realizing that this isnot a sustainable marketing
channel for us, because everykeyword cost is going high.
Every day, you see a newcompetition entering into the
market and they are bidding foryour brand keyword.
You have to outbid them to,even for users to land for you
(13:05):
know for, for users to land onyour website for your own
keyword.
Now, how you know?
Crazy, that is right, okay.
So we thought now maybe weshould build, you know, parallel
, you know, sustainable channelwhich can actually help us to
know uh, you know, amplify ourknow awareness.
Okay, and still still bringdown the costing.
(13:26):
I would say that post-brandingcampaigns, our marketing
spenders significantly drop.
The assumption is that once youstart doing branding campaigns,
your costs will shoot up.
That's not the case.
Once you have effectivebranding campaigns run and
considering the market we areinto in sas, you don't have to
(13:48):
launch a branding campaign everyquarter or every month like
fmcg, right, okay, because everymonth, addition has not,
additions are not made forbuying a software.
Nobody thinks of no software.
Nobody wakes up, no think of no, I'm going to buy your software
, right, you should firstunderstand that, okay.
Then you find a seasonalitywhen, which season, which month?
(14:08):
Now people, people are actuallypurchasing your software.
Okay, just three months beforethat can create a buzz.
Can you create awareness?
Okay, and then post that.
Can you continue yourperformance marketing, right?
Another mistake I found in themarket, say from the young
startups as that, okay, notbeing startups who found in the
market.
Say from the young startups asthat, okay, not young startups
who are in the growth stage,okay, either they have
(14:29):
performance campaigns on or theydo branding campaign.
They pause their performancecampaign and they launch a
branding campaign, which is thebiggest mistake, because
branding campaigns cannot giveyou instant results.
It takes time and most of thebranding campaigns will have,
will not have a strong call toaction, shouldn't have a strong
(14:49):
call to action.
Okay, the moment you spendmillions of dollars on a
branding campaigns and if youexpect to know some the branding
campaign to give you results,it's not give.
Okay.
You should have yourperformance marketing campaign
run in parallel at thebackground so that when the same
person encounters your brandingcampaign in some channel maybe
on youtube, maybe on tv oroutdoor airport, okay and when
(15:13):
he's actually looking for yourindustry article, reading the
industry article when yourperformance marketing ad
campaign displays, that's whenyou can convert them Right.
So these are some of the thingsthat probably I would suggest
startups to use.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Got it, I think, very valuable insights.
I think one core piece whichcame out is keep your
performance marketing on evenwhile you're running brand
campaigns, because it has tokind of coincide.
Only when it coincides ityields very high.
So I think that is a very nicesegment to understand.
Because you spoke aboutcampaigns, let's do specific two
case studies from Zoho'shistory.
(15:52):
Let's use these campaigns tounderstand what all went behind.
What are some very good bestpractices that possibly founders
can take from it?
So I think the first one we'llstart with.
Do you have a choice?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I have a choice, made in India, made for the world
and the Super Bowl piece, youcan start with whichever you
prefer.
Okay, no, I have another choice.
Okay, okay.
Do you want me to know?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, which one is?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
it.
So this is about now.
Vat campaign Now.
Vat campaign Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Kutty.
Where's Kutty?
Hello Kutty.
What happened to the cash flowstatement I had asked for, sir?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
you haven't received it yet.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
One minute, sir.
Yes, boss.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Patti, aren't we supposed?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
to file for the VAT returns today.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Just submitted the water returns for the VAT
returns today.
Just submitted the VAT returns.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Sorry.
Vat returns.
Stay on top of your accounts,no matter where you are
Introducing Zoho Books, theVAT-ready accounting software
for all your financial needs.
Start your free trial today.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So this was just a year after Zoho Books GST
campaign was launched.
Zoho Books GST campaign was atremendous success for us in
India and with that excitement,this came and we all pumped up
let's do the same thing in Dubaialso.
Whatever we have done in India,let's do that in Dubai.
(17:46):
Even Shridhar was all pumped up.
I think we should create a bigawareness and a big impact in
this market.
Whatever we have done in India,let's do that in Dubai.
Even Sridhar was all pumped up.
I think we should create a bigawareness and big impact in this
market.
Go all over.
This was his brief.
I went to Dubai and then, in2017, we never had an office in
Dubai.
Zoho was nobody in that region.
This is the back story.
(18:06):
I went there, I did a marketstudy.
I met a lot of media you knowpublications just to gather
information.
What happens one?
Okay, I came back.
Okay, me and you know my youknow a teammate, harish, who is
a media planner.
Okay, we were just discussing,like, how to go about, you know,
in this region, because dubaiis just one-tenth of you know,
(18:26):
uh, chennai, not even india,just chennai.
Okay, and you know, the mediaexpense are, you know three
times you know than new york.
Okay, so you cannot spend, youknow, as as much as you are
spending in new york, and withthe lesser you know size of
chennai.
Okay, the audience is small butstill you have to create an
(18:47):
impact, because Dubai is astrategically hub for all the
Middle East and also hub forEurope in some region.
And VAT was being launched inDubai first, and soon Bahrain
and other countries weresupposed to follow.
So we want to utilize thisopportunity and create an impact
, that's for sure.
But then I somehow never feltthat we should go all out and
(19:07):
spend millions of dollars,that's for sure.
But then we I, I some of neverfelt that we should go all out
and spend millions of dollars.
That doesn't make sense becauseat the end of the day, you have
to know get your returns backright.
So we were just notbrainstorming and we got to one
point saying that, okay, let'sfind the.
We just did a pie chart thiswas a brainstorming session and
(19:27):
we found out that 60% of Dubaipopulation are expats and out of
that 60%, 50% are Indians andin that 50%, 40% are Malayalees.
This is one side.
On the other side, we juststarted digging the accountant
community.
Who are the accountants in thatregion?
(19:50):
In that, more than 60% areMalayalis and the rest 20% are
Gujaratis.
So if you target Indians, Ithink the job is done.
But initially Sridhar wanted tocreate awareness among the
sheikhs, emiratis.
Everything or all the arabs,okay, they're super expensive.
(20:11):
So instead of targeting theentire audience, we just
targeted indian okay, indianaccountants okay, which actually
created a very good impact.
And it's been almost sevenyears now.
Even the local team says thatokay, they are finding it
difficult to know.
Erase the image that Zoho isnot just accounting software.
(20:31):
Zoho is more than accountingsoftware.
We just did one campaign.
So this is how you can viewyour insights or create a
campaign based on your audienceinsights.
Another interesting thing isthat if you see the creative,
the main character is Kutty, whois a Malayali.
(20:52):
So the moment someone sees that, they resonate with the
character and they find outZohar is an Indian company and
the decision maker is anaccountant and, of course, his
boss is an Emirati and no CEOwill get into no decision making
of accounting software.
Accounting is the least thingany CEO would get into, so
(21:14):
whatever accountant issuggesting, he'll just go ahead.
So we got a tremendous successfor this campaign.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think this is phenomenal, because you
identified who the user is, whothe decision maker is, and just
took them and put them in thecampaign.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Simple, that's all the campaign.
Simple, that's all.
It is Simple, simple.
And another thing I want to sayis I mean, can you expect this
level of you know what to saydeep research from an external
team, external agencies, right,unless until you're part of you
know the product team team,unless you're part of, now the
(21:49):
whole, you know company'sculture of no frugal spending.
Okay, do you think even you cancome up with this?
Imagine this brief was given,you know, to an agency from said
to go all out and do no big indubai.
Imagine what kind of no billthey would have no charge for.
No, see that, okay, simple gotit.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think this is a classic case study.
Uh, very, very interesting,right, and so, basically, this
became viral amongst Malayaliaccountants.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And that's what spread the word.
And maybe just to kind of closethe story, what is Zoho's
presence in Dubai, the MiddleEast today?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Now I think the Middle East is the fastest
growing region for Zoho.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, and most of it is attributed to this campaign,
would you say?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
that I wouldn't say I think.
No, we have, we are doing.
You know much, you know a lotof.
You know activities in theMiddle East, okay, but the
starting point was that campaign.
So in fact, give us media,because we never even had a
phone, we never had a phonenumber.
Like I said, who are you like?
No, how can I trust you if youmake a payment?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I had to make advance payment to buy a spot in TVs
got it and so you're saying thisad kind of moved the needle and
changed yeah yeah, yeah,absolutely, absolutely any quick
story on that, like how thatchanged any?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
inside, in fact, like now, we never had a partner,
also for Zoho books, okay, andnow this campaign actually
helped us build a partnerecosystem First, even before
setting up an office.
Their partner ecosystem forbooks and a lot of no
integration, no partners,implementation partners and
stuff.
I would say no, this isstarting point for setting up an
office.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That's a great example of how one campaign
opened up an entire market.
Yeah, yeah, and also like withsignificant background research.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, I am also see, I am also talking to a lot of
founders are actuallyapproaching me saying that, okay
, we are good in this region andwe want to, you know, launch in
that region.
Can you help us out?
I mean, this could be one ofyou know, one of you know, just
know your audience, like know,know whom you're talking to and
just know, just hit that knowwhere, where they can resonate.
(23:53):
Right, be precise, don't gobroad.
Be precise.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Perfect.
I think that leads us to thenext case.
Which one would you like to?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
go.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Made in India, made in India, yeah, yeah perfect
look around you different things, born out of truth and beauty,
of simple ideals.
(24:22):
Ideals of honesty, ideals ofpassion.
Ideals of honesty, ideals ofpassion timeless crossmanship of
inspiration in action.
It is the product of the hands,but even more a creation of the
(24:45):
mind Software, the ultimateproduct of the mind.
It's our craft, our identity,inspired by simplicity, designed
to make things work for you.
Zoho, made in India.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Made for the world.
Until 2013, we never focused onbranding at all.
We were just focusing onperformance marketing.
And one fine day, sridharcalled me and said Rafiq, we
want to set up a branding team.
(25:30):
You head this branding team.
That's another story.
And then I called, I insistedSridhar to write the about us
page, because I believe thatabout us page should come from a
man who has built theorganization.
You can get a content writer towrite about a space, but I want
(25:54):
that about a space should soundauthentic.
Every line, every word shouldhave this authenticity, and that
can come only from the founder.
He said he took a few months,but finally he gave me a content
In that he had a line sayingthat software is a craft.
That hit me, because I've neverread such a line, because
(26:17):
software is something moretangible.
You give input, you take output.
There's no emotion there, right, but craft is so emotional,
right, it can move you, it cando whatever, you know wonders,
magic to you, right?
But here is a man like who hasactually compared to you know
polar opposites, okay, that thatthat stayed back in me, in my
(26:39):
mind, and then, in 2013 end, Iguess okay, I, I'm in the us,
okay, and I and I had writtentwo to three scripts for the US
region.
Us was the primary market forus.
Then I was about to narratethose stories he said abruptly,
stopped me and said okay, excuseme, rafiq, let's do something
(27:01):
in India.
I asked what let's do, ourfirst TV campaign in India.
I said are you serious, rida?
Because India was now our 10thmarket, not even in under 5.
If we are to do a launch TVcampaign, it should be from
India.
And then we had Raju Begesnaalso, who heads a US office.
So he was actually planning afirst flagship Zoholics event in
(27:24):
Bangalore in 2014.
And in that he had apresentation theme Made in India
, made for the World.
Okay.
So he says, why can't we dosomething in this theme Made in
India, made for the World?
And then this line out ofnowhere stuck me Okay, software
is a crack Made in India, madefor the World.
Let's do something around this.
She said, yeah, this is a goodidea, just go ahead.
(27:48):
I said if this is the themethat you want to go, I want to
make it as authentic as possible.
I will not cast any models.
I'll bring in all the craftsmenfrom all around India.
I'm going to feature it.
He said do whatever you want.
That's it.
The point that we wanted tocommunicate through this
(28:09):
campaign is that, just like howGoldsmith is actually putting
his heart and soul into hiscraft, just how Cobbler is
actually putting his heart andsoul into his craft, it's the
same emotion that we are puttinginto our software.
Nothing big, nothing less.
If you actually go back and seethe ad now, we have actually
used a visual language, whichwas the idea of a
(28:31):
cinematographer, deepak Bhagwan.
I still owe him a big thanks.
So we were actually in thebriefing session.
I was actually showing Swades.
So this is my favourite movie.
There is one particular scenewhich is still my favourite
scene, when Shah Rukh Khan isactually going to visit
(28:54):
Kaveramma.
In a train scene there's achild who actually sells a tea
for 25 paisa.
That's a simple scene.
The camera will be at a normalcamera and by the moment Shah
Rukh Khan sips in, he has a tear.
All this emotion.
That's okay, but if he goesback to NASA when he recalls the
(29:16):
same scene, the camera will belike this the kid will be
looking up saying that I needhelp.
You are there, come save me.
Shah Rukh Khan is bigger thanthe child.
Okay, I said, like, can you dosomething with this scene,
deepak?
Like no.
So then he just tested it.
Okay, see, then let's have aneye-level framing, like, be it
(29:39):
goldsmith, be it cobbler.
Everybody will be framed at theeye-level saying that, okay, we
are just like them.
We are just like them, we arejust like no, goldsmith, we are
just like, no, a cobbler.
Okay, we are not neither big,neither no, neither no, we are
looking you down.
Okay, so, as software engineeror designer, or a marketer, a
sales you know sales guy from itguy is just like no, any other
craftsman, no, that is.
(30:00):
That is putting his heart andsoul and we actually, you know,
built in a beautiful carnatic,you know music, into the ad.
And now the decision was aboutwho to bring in for the
voiceover.
Again, I had a strongconviction it has to be
authentic.
I mean, I don't want to haveany voiceover artist, I don't
(30:21):
want any fake expression.
It has to sound authentic, thenwho it should be.
It has to sound authentic, thenwho it should be.
And there are a lot of names,and out of, suddenly, shekhar
Kapoor was sparked and he wasthe only director who had made
it really big in Hollywood.
(30:41):
He was also made name for theworld product.
Then I found this contact andhad a conversation.
He was very excited.
He already was following thething he was actually, you know,
a fan of.
You know see this philosophy,yeah, great.
And we got him, you know, onboard.
It was recorded here.
I'm in studio in Los Angeles.
So there are nostalgia aboutthis campaign.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
This is such a lovely story.
I think it's very beautiful,like connecting the craftsman
word from the founder to actualcrafts people and their craft
and how software is a craft, andlike, specifically from Made in
India Made for the World, andhow Shekhar Kapoor kind of falls
into all this.
I think it's a lovely story.
Thank you for sharing.
It's beautiful.
(31:25):
So I think that brings us tothe next campaign.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
With over 40 fully integrated applications, you
won't be able to contain yourexcitement either.
From just a dollar a day peremployee, run your entire
business with Zoho One, theoperating system for business.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So now we've looked at the UAE, now we've looked at
Made in India, made for theWorld.
And how did this Super Bowlthing happen?
Because it's possibly the mostsought-after thing in the world
for advertising and marketing,right?
How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Would love to know.
Yeah, sure, now, when, uh, sheasked me to know, head the
branding or creative team, okay,I asked him, like, what is your
vision or what is the goal thatyou're setting it for me?
He just randomly said, okay, Iwant to know, run zoho ad in
superbowl someday.
And I didn't know what superbowl was.
Then, okay, I had to know,google it to find out a super
bowl.
Okay, again, this stayed backin my mind.
Okay, I made up okay, one day,one day, I'm going to run zoho
(32:44):
ad in super bowl, okay, and thensee it's.
See, uh, super bowl ad is superexpensive.
No, uh, 10 second cost you afew million dollars.
Okay, I don't think, you know,even if she did this, I would be
, you know, running an ad atthat cost.
Okay, but somehow I wanted tobreak into that and you know,
just make sure that you knowZoho is there in that.
(33:06):
You know, in that whole SuperBowls and stuff, okay,
considering our audience set,considering our edition makers
okay, people are already movedfrom plugged into an OTT
platform.
Okay, most of the audience areactually consuming content on
OTT platform.
(33:27):
Okay, and if this costs a fewmillions, this costs only
thousands and I bought 25 spots25 spots for few thousand
dollars and I ran 25 spots on asingle day, on a final Super
Bowl day, and there were a lotof Indians who actually watched
(33:50):
that campaign.
They even tweeted saying thatthey feel really proud to see an
Indian brand doing a Super Bowlad.
Okay, and I didn't tell it toShweta.
I showed the tweet to him.
I said when did you do this?
He said I did this.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So Got it so just to kind of understand, right,
because A there are OTT and D2Hplatforms, so you pushed the ad
onto the OTT platforms.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And this 25 slots are available only Only Okay and
like, how did you find this out?
Like, maybe it's interestingjust like no.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I'm a firm believer that no marketing shouldn't be
outsourced.
Marketing is a very core partof organized success, just like
your engineering, just like yoursecurity and compliance, or
sales.
Marketing should be a core partas soon as I started this is
again a realization of ourMedian Made World campaign.
(34:51):
When we launched this campaignin 2014,.
Okay, everybody you know lovedthe campaign, but who was saw?
But in the event Zoalex event,which was, you know, a few weeks
after launch of the campaignnobody saw the campaign.
I went and asked the people,like you know, did you see the
ad?
No, when was it?
Did you play it in ADTV?
(35:11):
Yes, I played in RaniTown ADTV.
Did you do RaniTown TimeSong?
Yes, I did it, but they neversaw the ad.
That's when I realized that,okay, there should be some
strategy to actually distributeyour creative, and that is what
media planning is all about.
Media planning is all aboutpicking a time slot which is
(35:32):
relevant for your audience,picking a program that's
actually relevant for youraudience, picking a program
that's actually relevant foryour audience and just playing
your ad.
That's when I got intodifferent people and hired a
media planner and similarly, wehired another media planner in
the US.
So this was actually this know,this Super Bowl, you know,
(35:56):
media was actually broughtthrough our own employee, us
employee.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Okay, so I think this is like possibly an unknown
piece to a lot of founders andentrepreneurs, right?
So can you tell us a littlemore about media planning?
What does a media planner do?
And maybe a little more insight, because you've worked in this
space?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Because the first time you did didn't see enough
eyeballs and then you figuredthe distribution is through this
media planning.
How does one go about mediaplanning and what does a media
planner?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
do so?
Media planners basically is toput out a chart.
How can you distribute yourcreative?
Or even to step further, whatis the goal of this campaign?
Whom are we targeting?
That is the first step, andmedia planners actually come
back with the plan saying thatthese are the touch points that
(36:46):
probably we can actually use tocommunicate this message for
this particular audience.
It's not necessary that everyad campaign should have a TV.
Every campaign should have anoutdoor.
Every campaign should have anairport.
That's not necessary.
Okay, a campaign, acommunication, can have a TV
plus digital.
A campaign can have an outdoorplus digital.
(37:08):
A campaign can have an airportplus digital or TV.
Whatever this combination, itall depends on what is that you
want to communicate.
That is primary.
Media planners' job is to firstchart out a plan.
What are the channels that weare picking up for this campaign
to get across the message forthe particular audience?
Step two is that negotiatingwith the media houses, buying
(37:31):
media directly.
This is another important thingthat we did, which actually
helped us know bring down thecost significantly.
Generally, how this happens isthis is generally outsourced.
Okay, an agency would actuallycharge, you know, anywhere from
seven to eight, ten percent onthe media spend.
Suppose you are now spending amillion dollars.
You can, you can calculate 10or 7 percent right up front.
(37:51):
So we are saving 10 percent upupfront, okay, and we are
actually paying now our talentbased on, based on our savings,
okay, it's not extra, okay, orwe can put back that money and
buy more inventories, okay.
So so thing is that when we,when we start negotiating with
the media houses directly, webuild a relationship with them,
(38:14):
we build a long listenrelationship with them, and and
media houses are that know theyopen up no prime, you know,
premium inventories on only tothe key clients, okay, and and
we also do a bulk buying.
Now, we also do a yearly longbulk buying based on
relationship.
Okay, these are some of thetactics that we know apply in
various regions, okay, and andbeing a global brand, okay, we
(38:39):
can, we can talk, and we have nodata or insights of various
regions.
Suppose, if someone is actuallycoming from dubai and saying
that, okay, it costs you thismuch, my next question is that
new york has this footfall.
Okay, why are charging this forfoot this much footfall?
I say no, no, this will notwork in Dubai.
And my next question will belike okay, tell me one thing.
(39:00):
My target audience wakes up at7 pm.
Okay, gender is.
Most of the decision makers aremale.
Okay, 60 to 70%.
Till now, of course, the femaledecision makers.
That segment is growing, buttill now, male audience are
predominantly edition makers.
(39:28):
If it is a male, he gets up atwhatever time.
He brush up, maybe hits the gymand reads a newspaper, or maybe
scrims through his iPad toconsume, and maybe either he
takes public transport or a cabto an office.
He does his work and takes hislunch and gets back home again
he chills by consuming some TVcontent and goes to bed.
Now, tell me, is this behaviordifferent from Dubai or is the
company doing somethingdifferently?
No, pretty much.
(39:50):
If you are doing B2B, the mediaconsumption behavior or the
audience behavior is same, okay,the only thing is that maybe,
maybe he might be reading he'llbe reading times of india here.
He might be reading, you know,gulf news there, right, or he
might be taking you know, uh, hemight.
He might have a no driver here.
He might be driving his own carthere.
So those subtle differencesthat that we would make.
(40:14):
Another important thing is whenyou are doing a global brand and
buying a media inventory from acentral team, buying and out
doing creative from centralthing, you will have full
control over the entire media,entire communication, okay.
So when you have full controlon what goes out, what should be
(40:35):
the communication and whoshould be seeing your
communication and whichplacements, that's when you get
full control over what goes outand you can also bring in
efficiency down.
Let me give you one very goodexample.
Pretty much no I I see that no,most of the companies know who
(40:55):
are doing.
You know digital marketing.
Okay, they do auto placements.
Or whenever I know someone isdoing YouTube or no campaign,
they do auto placements.
Auto placements that you feedin your audience and of a
profile in the system algorithmwill run out speed or run your
ad to Homer.
It takes it is good in some way.
(41:17):
But context matters.
In which context your targetaudience is seeing your ad is
very, very important.
He might be your targetaudience, but what if a B2B ad
is surfaced when he's actuallywatching a song?
What if it is actually consumedwhen he's actually playing a
game?
He might be a target audience,but the context is missed, right
(41:38):
, so the the probability of forhim to take an action is is
missed, okay, so you may not beable to convert that user, you
may not be able to bring thatuser to know to your website.
So instead, what we do is wenever trust any of the
algorithms.
We have prepared a manualdatabase where we pick no
(42:00):
audiences, audience profiles.
We also handpick no placements,like with YouTube channels, on
genre ways.
If it is news, we have no newsno channels.
If it is no tech publication,we have tech publications.
If it is no general, nochannels.
If it is no tech publication,we have tech publications.
If it is no general, no sports,like that entertainment.
We have no full plan.
(42:21):
It's manually done.
It's very cumbersome, it's along process, but if you get
this done, you will have fullcontrol and then, when the same
audience is actually browsingyour internet, when he sees your
ad, the chance of him gettingconversion is higher.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
This is like extremely nuanced but very
valuable insight, for even likean independent creator, for
example.
Yeah, yeah yeah, andspecifically for founders, early
stage who don't have enoughbudgets.
I think that's very valuable,like a little more understanding
for me.
I had bunch of questions.
My response was so deep rightyeah, because I had like several
questions across, uh, but Ithink one thing, yes, one thing
(43:02):
I'd like to double click is soyou specifically said
negotiating at media houses.
Right, like, uh, I mean, maybefor the audience, how much does
it cost for an ad, maybe acrossthe day?
Maybe morning is a particularprice in the afternoon and
evening, like, just give us alittle insight on that it
depends on the medium.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Which medium do you want to know?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
like maybe, like what are the various mediums right?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
like maybe whatever mediums hall was packed.
Okay, I picked a no spot orderlike no.
I negotiated, saying that, okay, I want my ad to be run just
before the moving movie getstarted or after interval, just
before the movie gets started.
I paid a premium price there,but that premium price is
one-tenth of what I would payfor Starplus and still you get
(43:45):
that confined attention withthat sound, with that experience
.
So these are some of the veryunorthodox what we have done.
An outdoor spot outside theairport costs you 5 lakhs.
A spot inside the airport willcost you 25 lakhs, but this in
(44:06):
fact had cost you just 1 lakh.
Same audience traveling to thesame road, traveling to the same
airport and sitting inside theairplane.
Now, if you see, he might missyour outdoor, he might miss your
airport ad because he'schecking his boarding passes or
time and all, but he cannot missan ad which is pasted on the
(44:27):
right in front of his scene.
And you'll be traveling twohours or four hours and you
don't have anything to do.
But just look at the ad.
Do you think an agency willrecommend this kind of
properties?
No, and our sas ecosystem orfounders think that, okay, uh,
ad advertising is expensive.
It is, but there are alsocreative ways of no no, placing
(44:52):
your ads right god.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I think this is a wonderful example Just the
airport piece right.
So as preparation for thispodcast, I was because I
personally really like Zoho andthe value prop it has, like
India first building from Indiafor the world.
I was randomly talking topeople I know and asking them
what are some words that come toyour mind when, like when, I
say Zoho?
So, very interestingly, whatpopped up is enterprise software
(45:18):
, but from India.
Some folks said person fromChennai, the person who's
wearing like a vesti right.
And I think they said like fromtattoo in village in a cycle.
That was something which cameup and that's something which
stuck with me also and maybelike you've played some part in
it or like a critical piece init, like.
So any any insight on that andlet the relevance kind of
(45:39):
there's a backstory to it.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Okay, back in 2014, when we uh launched made in a
made for the world campaign, andthat's when we also had our
flagship as all.
It's a event plan, okay, andSridhar was, you know, was was
doing keynote.
Okay, then I had to, you know,design a costume.
Okay, design, you know what heshould be or the entire team
(46:01):
should be wearing, okay.
So somehow I had this feelingthat, okay, when you are seeing
me in a mate for the world, okay, when you are, when you, you
know, showing or celebratingcraftsmen and we are showing,
you know, you're talking aboutheart and soul and passion,
passionate and all.
Okay, you cannot spoil thatwith actually wearing a T-shirt,
(46:24):
a Nike T-shirt or Levi's jeans.
Okay, you cannot talk aboutMade in India and wear something
else.
Right, I thought it has to bevery Indian.
Then I said let's do somethingvery Indianish.
And that's when we designed akurta, black kurta, linen kurta.
(46:44):
I gave it to Sridhar and hesaid what is it?
I said, if you are making anauthentic story, if you are
making a presentation, I thinkyou should be wearing this.
Okay, and again, as with anyother campaigns, we had
resistance internally Sayingthat, okay, we are looking like
that.
We are looking like politicians.
We are looking at who is who isactually wearing.
You know, it company orsoftware company, all this stuff
(47:06):
like okay, so no, if you knowmaking authentic points with
them, I am made for the world.
I'm really proud of you know,my indianness, my origin, my, my
roots.
I think this is the this thingwe should do.
Okay, out of resistance, youknow, somehow, like everybody,
(47:26):
you know, uh, you know, use that, okay.
And then again audience wasshocked to see, like you imagine
, a company who is actuallycompeting against Google and
Microsoft and whatnot.
And they come to see a man whois wearing a kurta and dhoti and
talking about technology andperformance and scalability and
(47:48):
whatnot, and he fought up withRajiv Vigasana, who was actually
talking about what's next andstuff like that.
Okay, there's some mismatchbetween what they are saying and
how they are looking.
And that become a hit.
Right, see, these guys looklike any of us, but they are
talking something else, right,okay, so that actually resonate
(48:12):
with the audience so well, okay.
And then it become a hit.
Now.
It became a hit internally alsoand past that event.
Wherever we went, oursalespeople and everybody
started wearing this for theevents.
If you walk into any of theevents and you'll have all the
(48:33):
competition wearing suit and youwill find one booth where
people will be standing blackkurthas.
Who are they?
And then they start discoveringthey are from India, they are
from Chennai, they have anoffice in Tengasi, so it all
(48:53):
started connecting.
So most people wouldn't havediscovered they have an office
in Tengasi, so it all startedconnecting.
Okay, so most people wouldn'thave discovered Zoho through
Made in a Mate for the World,but they might have discovered
Zoho through Kurta.
Okay, and even the goodies thatwe gave at our events were
handmade.
We had a team of artists in ourteam Okay, in my team, very
talented artists.
(49:14):
Okay, we have a team of artistsartists in our team okay, in my
team, very talented artists.
Okay, I got them to do, youknow, handmade artwork like
Kalamkari art and traditionalart all oil paintings, acrylic
and stuff like that.
We printed that on notebook,which was handmade paper.
We also had neem pencil okay,in that.
And every book carried a noartist name okay, we took pride
(49:37):
in no celebrating our no cultureand roots okay, and we gave
that to no people.
Okay, people were actuallysmelling the neem pencil at the
event.
So what I'm trying to say isthat, okay, this whole thing of
no authenticity was actuallyviewed around all our no
communications In ad, in ourpresence, in our communications,
(49:57):
in our presentations, in ourgoodies, everything and this
also started bringing in changeinternally.
I think I would suggest everyentrepreneur to be as authentic
as possible and, if possible, ifyou have any story of your
roots, like if you are fromJharkhand, or if you are from
nasik, or if you are from noarsikere, which is no, uh, okay,
(50:20):
just try to know, actuallybring out that essence in in
somehow.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Okay, and be proud of your no or your origin or your
roots, that's all that's abeautiful message, and and that
leads me to the founder of Zohoitself, right, because you've
closely worked with him, like Ifind him to be an icon.
I kind of look at his writingand then his videos and
interviews, because you'veworked so closely with him.
(50:46):
He's a national icon, so we'dlove to know any specific things
you picked up from hisleadership, something that stays
with you, which might beinspiring for our founders and
entrepreneurs, who are kind ofwatching.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Absolutely.
There are a lot of things youknow very inspiring or very what
to say inspiring about SridharVembu.
One thing is that you know he'sneutral to success and failure.
He doesn't, you know, overreactto any success.
He doesn't overreact tofailures also, he's just neutral
.
That's something I would liketo know him from him.
(51:23):
Another thing is the trust heplaces on people.
See, I was just a designer inthe company.
I don't know how he picked upand how he trusted me to give
this kind of role.
Of course there was aprogressive way, but somehow he
identifies talent and,irrespective of whether he has
an experience or not, or whetherhe's a man or a girl or whoever
it is, he just goes ahead,that's all.
(51:45):
And he's very approachable.
If you have an idea, you canjust pick up on a call and you
can speak to him.
He conducts open house everyweek, every Friday, and the kind
of questions he answers.
I mean I still remember do aCEO of such a big company should
(52:06):
answer this?
He still answers that.
So he's one of those kind ofperson, got it?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
So I think it was such a great learning experience
for me personally to know theinsights behind what led to Zoho
becoming such a global brandLike I think some core pieces
were authenticity, make itsimple, make it playful and
serve the customer in all formsand fashion and be very
efficient in cost, and it wassuch a delight talking to you.
(52:36):
Thank you so much, rafiq, andwe're really having.
It was a big pleasure havingyou.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
My pleasure too, Tehran.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
Dear listeners, thank you for listening to this
episode of the podcast.
Subscribe now on your favoritepodcast app for free and you'll
be the first one to know whennew episodes are available.
Just search for Prime VenturePartners Podcast in Apple
Podcast, spotify, castbox orhowever.
You get your podcasts, then hitsubscribe and if you have
(53:09):
enjoyed the show, we would bereally grateful if you leave us
a review on Apple Podcast.
To read the full transcript,find the link in the show.
We would be really grateful ifyou leave us a review on Apple
podcast.
To read the full transcript,find the link in the show notes.
Zoho was actually an idea of one of our engineers.
You can miss anything, but notZoho logo.
He said this is the logo I'mproposing for Zoho.
He said go ahead.
It took maybe 15 seconds forhim to decide a logo for a
global brand.
That's how Zoho logo was born.
Zoho was nobody in that region.
This is the backstory.
Out of that, 60% 50% areIndians and in that 50% 40% are
(00:25):
Malayalis.
It was recorded in the ARMMstudio in Los Angeles.
How did this Super Bowl thinghappen?
We never pressed any of thealgorithms.
An outdoor spot outside theairport costs you 5 lakhs.
A spot inside the airport willcost you 25 lakhs, but this
inside out costs you just 1 lakh.
Competition wearing a suit?
(00:45):
Okay, and you'll find you knowone booth where people will be
signing black kurtas.
Like who are they?
We took pride in you know,celebrating our you know culture
and roots.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Hi, welcome to the Prime Venture Partners podcast.
This is your host, JeromeManuel.
Today, we have with us RafiqAslam, an exemplar leader from
Zoho.
Hi, welcome to the PrimeVenture Partners podcast.
This is your host, JeromeManuel.
Today, we have with us RafiqAslam, an exemplar leader from
Zoho.
So Rafiq has been part ofZoho's magnanimous journey,
helping it grow from a smallengineering company to a global
tech brand serving 100 millionusers in over 180 countries.
(01:21):
So he was responsible forglobal branding.
He managed 50 plus Zohowebsites and worked with a
global team executing digitalcampaigns that have possibly
appealed and transformed thebrand and also a lot of Indians
across the country.
Start with this question abouthelp us visualize what Zoho
looked like in 2004 and maybesome key milestones across these
(01:44):
21 years of journey with Zoho.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Sure, zoho was not Zoho when we started.
It was called as Advanet.
So the company was Advanet andwe had a small what I call as a
good on structure tucked into aninterior part of Chennai.
It's called Velachery and wewere into networking management
(02:07):
systems.
We were building networkmanagement applications and we
were doing pretty good.
We had only ManageEngine brandthen.
We never had Zoho.
Zoho was actually an idea of oneof our engineers who, actually
out of curiosity andexperimentation, he went on and
built a word processorapplication which is Zoho Rater,
(02:28):
which we still have now.
Another engineer did an onlineplanner tool which is called
Zoho Planner.
That was happening in paralleland I was part of Zoho Creator,
which was called as App Creator,which is a low-code platform
and back then there was noterminology or jargon of no-code
platform.
It was an online databaseplatform where people can drag
(02:52):
and drop fields and build theirown custom applications.
So the core USP was how can wemake a business user to build
custom applications on their own?
So I was leading the UX teamfor Zoho Creator and, out of
curiosity, I started creatinglogo for App Creator.
Even App Creator was not partof Zoho then.
(03:14):
It was all happening inside thecompany.
There are a lot of ideasgerming inside the company, a
lot of ideas evolving.
In one corner, we were buildingApp Creator.
In another corner, people werebuilding Zoho Writer and Planet
For AppCreator.
I had this idea of buildingblocks.
It's a process of buildingsomething With blocks.
(03:36):
You can create a home Withblocks.
You can create a ladder Withblocks.
You can create anything.
It also has a playful characterto it, right so, which actually
resonates with Zoho creator,which is actually letting people
to build custom applicationseasily.
Zoho had a four letter.
Okay, naturally, I had to bringin another fourth cube, rgby,
(03:59):
which was primary colors.
Okay, that's how Zoho logo wasborn.
And I had to show it to Sridhar, and Sridhar was in Pantry and
my manager and we both went toSridhar in Pantry.
I just showed him okay, sridhar, this is a logo I'm proposing
for Zoho.
He said go ahead.
(04:20):
That was.
That was the decision.
Like.
It took maybe, you know, maybe15 seconds for him to decide.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
You know, a logo for a global brand, that's all got
it, so I think I'd like todouble click on the logo part of
it, okay so essentially thelogo we're all seeing of
multicolored ZOHO, somethingwhich you created and got an
approval in the pantry like in acouple of minutes, absolutely
right.
So maybe we'll kind of ask youto kind of explain what were you
(04:45):
thinking when you were creatingthis logo.
I think there is red in thefirst.
Maybe we'll hear it from yourgby, it's rgby.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
No, this was not initially created for zoho.
It was created for app creator.
Okay, which is so great.
Now, okay, so zoho is a no, uh,application building platform,
right, low code platform.
So it was actually built,designed for that thing, okay,
so when we had this idea, wejust now played it without
thinking too much okay, so thattime, what was it called?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
like?
How did it translate to zoho?
That's what I'm saying.
Like.
When did the name zoho come?
How did this logo?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
go.
All this was happening inparallel, like no writer was no
happening in parallel.
Planner was happening.
A planner and crm was actuallyhappening in parallel.
Creator was happening inparallel.
We also had a no parallel.
We also had Zoho Mail, which isZoho virtual office.
So all these experiments werehappening in parallel.
And then, I don't know how itcame to me, I started to design
(05:36):
logo and it was applied throughall the products.
You can miss anything but notZoho logo, even if it is pasted
along all our competitions, evenif it's just no 20 pixel by 20
pixel, you can.
That logo stood out.
It has no four primary class.
Nobody could know miss thatlogo.
Okay, and that also actuallyhelped us in a way to know bring
(05:57):
down our no marketing, no cost,okay.
So when, when someone actuallyspending for more frequencies,
buying more frequencies, Ibought bought less frequencies
on media and even the ad recalllogo actually helped us create a
good ad recall and anotherimportant strategy this was a
serious idea not to confuse witha product, because we are
(06:20):
building a product like crazy.
Every month we had a new product.
He said let's keep all theproduct name simple.
I mean people should actuallyknow identify uh product usage
or product you know by by itsname.
Okay, if it is a crm, just nameit as those here.
Okay, if it is you know mail,just may name it as over mail.
(06:40):
If it is no email marketing,just name it as over campaigns.
Okay.
So everything was a suffix ofZoho, zoho Mail, zoho CRM, zoho,
whatever.
We had 20 products back then.
So when we started doingbranding activities, even for
one product for example, zohoBooks first thing people saw was
(07:02):
Zoho.
And if you had a Zoho CRMcampaign running in parallel the
product marketing campaignrunning in parallel people would
have already seen Zoho in amassive airport billboards.
I have seen this logo.
I've heard you go somewhere.
That's a kind of familiarity.
That logo actually helped usbuild in the market.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Got it Because you're also a UI UX designer.
So you're saying the reason forpossible attraction or even
this familiarity with the logois the usage of the primary
colors?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And also the shapes.
What is one thing that isactually stopping someone using
a software or digitizing theirsoftware?
It's not lack of knowledge,it's just the complexity of the
product.
The aversion towards a softwareis the complexity.
(07:57):
The moment you see somethingplayful see logo, branding, ad
is the first interaction anycustomer or consumer will have
with your product.
The moment you see a logo whichis simple, which is playful
right, it actually opens thefirst door.
Okay, for example, when we didZoho Books campaign in 2017 for
GSD, okay, I mean, we had Tally,who is a veteran in this market
(08:22):
, right, but we stood out.
We stood out.
And an interesting point isthat when we were actually
running a Zoho Books campaign,our sign-ups increased for Zoho
CRM.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
How does it happen?
That will help.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, there's a spillover effect, right.
So whenever people saw ZohoBooks I mean Zoho Books on any
of the you know medium okay,they would visit zohocom and
there they will see you knowzoho crm and all other products.
That's one way of introducingall of all our products, okay,
and if someone has seen zohobooks ad, ad in outdoor and if
they encounter any of zoho crmno performance, you know
(09:01):
marketing, you know display,also youtube, or if they attend
any event they could relate oh,I saw you there, I saw you there
, right.
So logo is the first impression, right, got it?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Got it Nice.
I think that is lesson numberone for all startup founders
Make it very simple and playful.
I think that is my takeaway,because most of our target
audience are startup foundersand, specifically, I think this
episode will be very useful forB2B SaaS founders, right?
In that case, what are thebuilding blocks for founders who
(09:33):
are building brand andmarketing?
Right?
I think that will be reallyeffective to hear are most
misunderstood or indispensableaspect of a business by branding
.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
It doesn't mean that you have to do an ad campaign,
you have to take a full page adNew York Times or Times of India
or do an airport ad.
It's not that.
Branding is that to tell to themarket who you are, how unique
you are among your competition,and if you have a point of view
on your market, on your audience, how are you communicating that
(10:15):
to the conviction?
That's that is branding.
For me, okay, it doesn't have.
It is not about no advertising,it's not about no buying media.
That's the second part, thesimplification strategy.
Okay, branding is identifyingwho you are and why did you know
, start this business and whatis the, what is the value that
you have, what is the commitmentthat you're giving to customers
?
Are you sticking those,sticking to those you know
(10:37):
convictions?
Right, that is branding got it.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So, first is, who are you say, let's say, the
founders of Identified?
Who are they?
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Then what happens after?
Okay, now the thing is that,see, generally no, you start
with the story.
Every startup company has aabout us.
No story, right, why theystarted, okay, but down the line
, if you take two years, I mean,the journey, the origin and the
pathway they are taking istotally different.
But that shouldn't be the case.
(11:07):
I'm saying, if you want to saythat, if you're entering into a
market where people are using asoftware which is bloated, or if
you're entering into a marketwhere the software is complex or
it's highly priced and you havea point of view saying that,
okay, I can offer this sameproduct, same stuff at a very,
(11:28):
very nominal price and I'm goingto make it super easy to use,
if that is your conviction, youshould stick to it for five
years, 10 years, and yourcommunication should reflect
that.
It's not that suddenly you takea turn and talk about no
performance and no powerfulfeatures in AI.
That can happen.
But your core differentiatingfactor is how simplified your
(11:51):
software is.
Among the other competitionsSimplification or whatever it
could be it is that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Got it.
So, one, first identify whothey are.
Two, and also sticking to whattheir core differentiation is
Exactly.
Now they have both these piecesgoing on.
So how do they take and whatare the various other blocks?
Say, for example, they're a B2BSaaS startup.
What else should they bethinking about?
For example, if they think thisis my online presence, this is
(12:18):
how I want to reach customers?
What?
How should they go aboutthinking it?
Speaker 1 (12:25):
So that's what I'm trying to understand, or rather,
how did Joe go about thinking?
Maybe we can take lessons fromthat?
The thing is that now we nevergot into branding until 2014.
That's already 15 years Past 15years.
We focus only on productmarketing, okay, we never even
thought about investing inbranding.
Okay.
But after a point like all this,in the 15 years we focusing on
(12:45):
paid marketing, which isprimarily adverts, then we
started realizing that this isnot a sustainable marketing
channel for us, because everykeyword cost is going high.
Every day, you see a newcompetition entering into the
market and they are bidding foryour brand keyword.
You have to outbid them to,even for users to land for you
(13:05):
know for, for users to land onyour website for your own
keyword.
Now, how you know?
Crazy, that is right, okay.
So we thought now maybe weshould build, you know, parallel
, you know, sustainable channelwhich can actually help us to
know uh, you know, amplify ourknow awareness.
Okay, and still still bringdown the costing.
(13:26):
I would say that post-brandingcampaigns, our marketing
spenders significantly drop.
The assumption is that once youstart doing branding campaigns,
your costs will shoot up.
That's not the case.
Once you have effectivebranding campaigns run and
considering the market we areinto in sas, you don't have to
(13:48):
launch a branding campaign everyquarter or every month like
fmcg, right, okay, because everymonth, addition has not,
additions are not made forbuying a software.
Nobody thinks of no software.
Nobody wakes up, no think of no, I'm going to buy your software
, right, you should firstunderstand that, okay.
Then you find a seasonalitywhen, which season, which month?
(14:08):
Now people, people are actuallypurchasing your software.
Okay, just three months beforethat can create a buzz.
Can you create awareness?
Okay, and then post that.
Can you continue yourperformance marketing, right?
Another mistake I found in themarket, say from the young
startups as that, okay, notbeing startups who found in the
market.
Say from the young startups asthat, okay, not young startups
who are in the growth stage,okay, either they have
(14:29):
performance campaigns on or theydo branding campaign.
They pause their performancecampaign and they launch a
branding campaign, which is thebiggest mistake, because
branding campaigns cannot giveyou instant results.
It takes time and most of thebranding campaigns will have,
will not have a strong call toaction, shouldn't have a strong
(14:49):
call to action.
Okay, the moment you spendmillions of dollars on a
branding campaigns and if youexpect to know some the branding
campaign to give you results,it's not give.
Okay.
You should have yourperformance marketing campaign
run in parallel at thebackground so that when the same
person encounters your brandingcampaign in some channel maybe
on youtube, maybe on tv oroutdoor airport, okay and when
(15:13):
he's actually looking for yourindustry article, reading the
industry article when yourperformance marketing ad
campaign displays, that's whenyou can convert them Right.
So these are some of the thingsthat probably I would suggest
startups to use.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Got it, I think, very valuable insights.
I think one core piece whichcame out is keep your
performance marketing on evenwhile you're running brand
campaigns, because it has tokind of coincide.
Only when it coincides ityields very high.
So I think that is a very nicesegment to understand.
Because you spoke aboutcampaigns, let's do specific two
case studies from Zoho'shistory.
(15:52):
Let's use these campaigns tounderstand what all went behind.
What are some very good bestpractices that possibly founders
can take from it?
So I think the first one we'llstart with.
Do you have a choice?
Speaker 1 (16:06):
I have a choice, made in India, made for the world
and the Super Bowl piece, youcan start with whichever you
prefer.
Okay, no, I have another choice.
Okay, okay.
Do you want me to know?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, which one is?
Speaker 1 (16:14):
it.
So this is about now.
Vat campaign Now.
Vat campaign Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Kutty.
Where's Kutty?
Hello Kutty.
What happened to the cash flowstatement I had asked for, sir?
Speaker 3 (16:41):
you haven't received it yet.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
One minute, sir.
Yes, boss.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Patti, aren't we supposed?
Speaker 2 (17:05):
to file for the VAT returns today.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Just submitted the water returns for the VAT
returns today.
Just submitted the VAT returns.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Sorry.
Vat returns.
Stay on top of your accounts,no matter where you are
Introducing Zoho Books, theVAT-ready accounting software
for all your financial needs.
Start your free trial today.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
So this was just a year after Zoho Books GST
campaign was launched.
Zoho Books GST campaign was atremendous success for us in
India and with that excitement,this came and we all pumped up
let's do the same thing in Dubaialso.
Whatever we have done in India,let's do that in Dubai.
(17:46):
Even Shridhar was all pumped up.
I think we should create a bigawareness and a big impact in
this market.
Whatever we have done in India,let's do that in Dubai.
Even Sridhar was all pumped up.
I think we should create a bigawareness and big impact in this
market.
Go all over.
This was his brief.
I went to Dubai and then, in2017, we never had an office in
Dubai.
Zoho was nobody in that region.
This is the back story.
(18:06):
I went there, I did a marketstudy.
I met a lot of media you knowpublications just to gather
information.
What happens one?
Okay, I came back.
Okay, me and you know my youknow a teammate, harish, who is
a media planner.
Okay, we were just discussing,like, how to go about, you know,
in this region, because dubaiis just one-tenth of you know,
(18:26):
uh, chennai, not even india,just chennai.
Okay, and you know, the mediaexpense are, you know three
times you know than new york.
Okay, so you cannot spend, youknow, as as much as you are
spending in new york, and withthe lesser you know size of
chennai.
Okay, the audience is small butstill you have to create an
(18:47):
impact, because Dubai is astrategically hub for all the
Middle East and also hub forEurope in some region.
And VAT was being launched inDubai first, and soon Bahrain
and other countries weresupposed to follow.
So we want to utilize thisopportunity and create an impact
, that's for sure.
But then I somehow never feltthat we should go all out and
(19:07):
spend millions of dollars,that's for sure.
But then we I, I some of neverfelt that we should go all out
and spend millions of dollars.
That doesn't make sense becauseat the end of the day, you have
to know get your returns backright.
So we were just notbrainstorming and we got to one
point saying that, okay, let'sfind the.
We just did a pie chart thiswas a brainstorming session and
(19:27):
we found out that 60% of Dubaipopulation are expats and out of
that 60%, 50% are Indians andin that 50%, 40% are Malayalees.
This is one side.
On the other side, we juststarted digging the accountant
community.
Who are the accountants in thatregion?
(19:50):
In that, more than 60% areMalayalis and the rest 20% are
Gujaratis.
So if you target Indians, Ithink the job is done.
But initially Sridhar wanted tocreate awareness among the
sheikhs, emiratis.
Everything or all the arabs,okay, they're super expensive.
(20:11):
So instead of targeting theentire audience, we just
targeted indian okay, indianaccountants okay, which actually
created a very good impact.
And it's been almost sevenyears now.
Even the local team says thatokay, they are finding it
difficult to know.
Erase the image that Zoho isnot just accounting software.
(20:31):
Zoho is more than accountingsoftware.
We just did one campaign.
So this is how you can viewyour insights or create a
campaign based on your audienceinsights.
Another interesting thing isthat if you see the creative,
the main character is Kutty, whois a Malayali.
(20:52):
So the moment someone sees that, they resonate with the
character and they find outZohar is an Indian company and
the decision maker is anaccountant and, of course, his
boss is an Emirati and no CEOwill get into no decision making
of accounting software.
Accounting is the least thingany CEO would get into, so
(21:14):
whatever accountant issuggesting, he'll just go ahead.
So we got a tremendous successfor this campaign.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think this is phenomenal, because you
identified who the user is, whothe decision maker is, and just
took them and put them in thecampaign.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Simple, that's all the campaign.
Simple, that's all.
It is Simple, simple.
And another thing I want to sayis I mean, can you expect this
level of you know what to saydeep research from an external
team, external agencies, right,unless until you're part of you
know the product team team,unless you're part of, now the
(21:49):
whole, you know company'sculture of no frugal spending.
Okay, do you think even you cancome up with this?
Imagine this brief was given,you know, to an agency from said
to go all out and do no big indubai.
Imagine what kind of no billthey would have no charge for.
No, see that, okay, simple gotit.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
I think this is a classic case study.
Uh, very, very interesting,right, and so, basically, this
became viral amongst Malayaliaccountants.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
And that's what spread the word.
And maybe just to kind of closethe story, what is Zoho's
presence in Dubai, the MiddleEast today?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Now I think the Middle East is the fastest
growing region for Zoho.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Okay, and most of it is attributed to this campaign,
would you say?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
that I wouldn't say I think.
No, we have, we are doing.
You know much, you know a lotof.
You know activities in theMiddle East, okay, but the
starting point was that campaign.
So in fact, give us media,because we never even had a
phone, we never had a phonenumber.
Like I said, who are you like?
No, how can I trust you if youmake a payment?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I had to make advance payment to buy a spot in TVs
got it and so you're saying thisad kind of moved the needle and
changed yeah yeah, yeah,absolutely, absolutely any quick
story on that, like how thatchanged any?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
inside, in fact, like now, we never had a partner,
also for Zoho books, okay, andnow this campaign actually
helped us build a partnerecosystem First, even before
setting up an office.
Their partner ecosystem forbooks and a lot of no
integration, no partners,implementation partners and
stuff.
I would say no, this isstarting point for setting up an
office.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That's a great example of how one campaign
opened up an entire market.
Yeah, yeah, and also like withsignificant background research.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, I am also see, I am also talking to a lot of
founders are actuallyapproaching me saying that, okay
, we are good in this region andwe want to, you know, launch in
that region.
Can you help us out?
I mean, this could be one ofyou know, one of you know, just
know your audience, like know,know whom you're talking to and
just know, just hit that knowwhere, where they can resonate.
(23:53):
Right, be precise, don't gobroad.
Be precise.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Perfect.
I think that leads us to thenext case.
Which one would you like to?
Speaker 1 (24:01):
go.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Made in India, made in India, yeah, yeah perfect
look around you different things, born out of truth and beauty,
of simple ideals.
(24:22):
Ideals of honesty, ideals ofpassion.
Ideals of honesty, ideals ofpassion timeless crossmanship of
inspiration in action.
It is the product of the hands,but even more a creation of the
(24:45):
mind Software, the ultimateproduct of the mind.
It's our craft, our identity,inspired by simplicity, designed
to make things work for you.
Zoho, made in India.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Made for the world.
Until 2013, we never focused onbranding at all.
We were just focusing onperformance marketing.
And one fine day, sridharcalled me and said Rafiq, we
want to set up a branding team.
(25:30):
You head this branding team.
That's another story.
And then I called, I insistedSridhar to write the about us
page, because I believe thatabout us page should come from a
man who has built theorganization.
You can get a content writer towrite about a space, but I want
(25:54):
that about a space should soundauthentic.
Every line, every word shouldhave this authenticity, and that
can come only from the founder.
He said he took a few months,but finally he gave me a content
In that he had a line sayingthat software is a craft.
That hit me, because I've neverread such a line, because
(26:17):
software is something moretangible.
You give input, you take output.
There's no emotion there, right, but craft is so emotional,
right, it can move you, it cando whatever, you know wonders,
magic to you, right?
But here is a man like who hasactually compared to you know
polar opposites, okay, that thatthat stayed back in me, in my
(26:39):
mind, and then, in 2013 end, Iguess okay, I, I'm in the us,
okay, and I and I had writtentwo to three scripts for the US
region.
Us was the primary market forus.
Then I was about to narratethose stories he said abruptly,
stopped me and said okay, excuseme, rafiq, let's do something
(27:01):
in India.
I asked what let's do, ourfirst TV campaign in India.
I said are you serious, rida?
Because India was now our 10thmarket, not even in under 5.
If we are to do a launch TVcampaign, it should be from
India.
And then we had Raju Begesnaalso, who heads a US office.
So he was actually planning afirst flagship Zoholics event in
(27:24):
Bangalore in 2014.
And in that he had apresentation theme Made in India
, made for the World.
Okay.
So he says, why can't we dosomething in this theme Made in
India, made for the World?
And then this line out ofnowhere stuck me Okay, software
is a crack Made in India, madefor the World.
Let's do something around this.
She said, yeah, this is a goodidea, just go ahead.
(27:48):
I said if this is the themethat you want to go, I want to
make it as authentic as possible.
I will not cast any models.
I'll bring in all the craftsmenfrom all around India.
I'm going to feature it.
He said do whatever you want.
That's it.
The point that we wanted tocommunicate through this
(28:09):
campaign is that, just like howGoldsmith is actually putting
his heart and soul into hiscraft, just how Cobbler is
actually putting his heart andsoul into his craft, it's the
same emotion that we are puttinginto our software.
Nothing big, nothing less.
If you actually go back and seethe ad now, we have actually
used a visual language, whichwas the idea of a
(28:31):
cinematographer, deepak Bhagwan.
I still owe him a big thanks.
So we were actually in thebriefing session.
I was actually showing Swades.
So this is my favourite movie.
There is one particular scenewhich is still my favourite
scene, when Shah Rukh Khan isactually going to visit
(28:54):
Kaveramma.
In a train scene there's achild who actually sells a tea
for 25 paisa.
That's a simple scene.
The camera will be at a normalcamera and by the moment Shah
Rukh Khan sips in, he has a tear.
All this emotion.
That's okay, but if he goesback to NASA when he recalls the
(29:16):
same scene, the camera will belike this the kid will be
looking up saying that I needhelp.
You are there, come save me.
Shah Rukh Khan is bigger thanthe child.
Okay, I said, like, can you dosomething with this scene,
deepak?
Like no.
So then he just tested it.
Okay, see, then let's have aneye-level framing, like, be it
(29:39):
goldsmith, be it cobbler.
Everybody will be framed at theeye-level saying that, okay, we
are just like them.
We are just like them, we arejust like no, goldsmith, we are
just like, no, a cobbler.
Okay, we are not neither big,neither no, neither no, we are
looking you down.
Okay, so, as software engineeror designer, or a marketer, a
sales you know sales guy from itguy is just like no, any other
craftsman, no, that is.
(30:00):
That is putting his heart andsoul and we actually, you know,
built in a beautiful carnatic,you know music, into the ad.
And now the decision was aboutwho to bring in for the
voiceover.
Again, I had a strongconviction it has to be
authentic.
I mean, I don't want to haveany voiceover artist, I don't
(30:21):
want any fake expression.
It has to sound authentic, thenwho it should be.
It has to sound authentic, thenwho it should be.
And there are a lot of names,and out of, suddenly, shekhar
Kapoor was sparked and he wasthe only director who had made
it really big in Hollywood.
(30:41):
He was also made name for theworld product.
Then I found this contact andhad a conversation.
He was very excited.
He already was following thething he was actually, you know,
a fan of.
You know see this philosophy,yeah, great.
And we got him, you know, onboard.
It was recorded here.
I'm in studio in Los Angeles.
So there are nostalgia aboutthis campaign.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
This is such a lovely story.
I think it's very beautiful,like connecting the craftsman
word from the founder to actualcrafts people and their craft
and how software is a craft, andlike, specifically from Made in
India Made for the World, andhow Shekhar Kapoor kind of falls
into all this.
I think it's a lovely story.
Thank you for sharing.
It's beautiful.
(31:25):
So I think that brings us tothe next campaign.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
With over 40 fully integrated applications, you
won't be able to contain yourexcitement either.
From just a dollar a day peremployee, run your entire
business with Zoho One, theoperating system for business.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
So now we've looked at the UAE, now we've looked at
Made in India, made for theWorld.
And how did this Super Bowlthing happen?
Because it's possibly the mostsought-after thing in the world
for advertising and marketing,right?
How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Would love to know.
Yeah, sure, now, when, uh, sheasked me to know, head the
branding or creative team, okay,I asked him, like, what is your
vision or what is the goal thatyou're setting it for me?
He just randomly said, okay, Iwant to know, run zoho ad in
superbowl someday.
And I didn't know what superbowl was.
Then, okay, I had to know,google it to find out a super
bowl.
Okay, again, this stayed backin my mind.
Okay, I made up okay, one day,one day, I'm going to run zoho
(32:44):
ad in super bowl, okay, and thensee it's.
See, uh, super bowl ad is superexpensive.
No, uh, 10 second cost you afew million dollars.
Okay, I don't think, you know,even if she did this, I would be
, you know, running an ad atthat cost.
Okay, but somehow I wanted tobreak into that and you know,
just make sure that you knowZoho is there in that.
(33:06):
You know, in that whole SuperBowls and stuff, okay,
considering our audience set,considering our edition makers
okay, people are already movedfrom plugged into an OTT
platform.
Okay, most of the audience areactually consuming content on
OTT platform.
(33:27):
Okay, and if this costs a fewmillions, this costs only
thousands and I bought 25 spots25 spots for few thousand
dollars and I ran 25 spots on asingle day, on a final Super
Bowl day, and there were a lotof Indians who actually watched
(33:50):
that campaign.
They even tweeted saying thatthey feel really proud to see an
Indian brand doing a Super Bowlad.
Okay, and I didn't tell it toShweta.
I showed the tweet to him.
I said when did you do this?
He said I did this.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So Got it so just to kind of understand, right,
because A there are OTT and D2Hplatforms, so you pushed the ad
onto the OTT platforms.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And this 25 slots are available only Only Okay and
like, how did you find this out?
Like, maybe it's interestingjust like no.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I'm a firm believer that no marketing shouldn't be
outsourced.
Marketing is a very core partof organized success, just like
your engineering, just like yoursecurity and compliance, or
sales.
Marketing should be a core partas soon as I started this is
again a realization of ourMedian Made World campaign.
(34:51):
When we launched this campaignin 2014,.
Okay, everybody you know lovedthe campaign, but who was saw?
But in the event Zoalex event,which was, you know, a few weeks
after launch of the campaignnobody saw the campaign.
I went and asked the people,like you know, did you see the
ad?
No, when was it?
Did you play it in ADTV?
(35:11):
Yes, I played in RaniTown ADTV.
Did you do RaniTown TimeSong?
Yes, I did it, but they neversaw the ad.
That's when I realized that,okay, there should be some
strategy to actually distributeyour creative, and that is what
media planning is all about.
Media planning is all aboutpicking a time slot which is
(35:32):
relevant for your audience,picking a program that's
actually relevant for youraudience, picking a program
that's actually relevant foryour audience and just playing
your ad.
That's when I got intodifferent people and hired a
media planner and similarly, wehired another media planner in
the US.
So this was actually this know,this Super Bowl, you know,
(35:56):
media was actually broughtthrough our own employee, us
employee.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Okay, so I think this is like possibly an unknown
piece to a lot of founders andentrepreneurs, right?
So can you tell us a littlemore about media planning?
What does a media planner do?
And maybe a little more insight, because you've worked in this
space?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Because the first time you did didn't see enough
eyeballs and then you figuredthe distribution is through this
media planning.
How does one go about mediaplanning and what does a media
planner?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
do so?
Media planners basically is toput out a chart.
How can you distribute yourcreative?
Or even to step further, whatis the goal of this campaign?
Whom are we targeting?
That is the first step, andmedia planners actually come
back with the plan saying thatthese are the touch points that
(36:46):
probably we can actually use tocommunicate this message for
this particular audience.
It's not necessary that everyad campaign should have a TV.
Every campaign should have anoutdoor.
Every campaign should have anairport.
That's not necessary.
Okay, a campaign, acommunication, can have a TV
plus digital.
A campaign can have an outdoorplus digital.
(37:08):
A campaign can have an airportplus digital or TV.
Whatever this combination, itall depends on what is that you
want to communicate.
That is primary.
Media planners' job is to firstchart out a plan.
What are the channels that weare picking up for this campaign
to get across the message forthe particular audience?
Step two is that negotiatingwith the media houses, buying
(37:31):
media directly.
This is another important thingthat we did, which actually
helped us know bring down thecost significantly.
Generally, how this happens isthis is generally outsourced.
Okay, an agency would actuallycharge, you know, anywhere from
seven to eight, ten percent onthe media spend.
Suppose you are now spending amillion dollars.
You can, you can calculate 10or 7 percent right up front.
(37:51):
So we are saving 10 percent upupfront, okay, and we are
actually paying now our talentbased on, based on our savings,
okay, it's not extra, okay, orwe can put back that money and
buy more inventories, okay.
So so thing is that when we,when we start negotiating with
the media houses directly, webuild a relationship with them,
(38:14):
we build a long listenrelationship with them, and and
media houses are that know theyopen up no prime, you know,
premium inventories on only tothe key clients, okay, and and
we also do a bulk buying.
Now, we also do a yearly longbulk buying based on
relationship.
Okay, these are some of thetactics that we know apply in
various regions, okay, and andbeing a global brand, okay, we
(38:39):
can, we can talk, and we have nodata or insights of various
regions.
Suppose, if someone is actuallycoming from dubai and saying
that, okay, it costs you thismuch, my next question is that
new york has this footfall.
Okay, why are charging this forfoot this much footfall?
I say no, no, this will notwork in Dubai.
And my next question will belike okay, tell me one thing.
(39:00):
My target audience wakes up at7 pm.
Okay, gender is.
Most of the decision makers aremale.
Okay, 60 to 70%.
Till now, of course, the femaledecision makers.
That segment is growing, buttill now, male audience are
predominantly edition makers.
(39:28):
If it is a male, he gets up atwhatever time.
He brush up, maybe hits the gymand reads a newspaper, or maybe
scrims through his iPad toconsume, and maybe either he
takes public transport or a cabto an office.
He does his work and takes hislunch and gets back home again
he chills by consuming some TVcontent and goes to bed.
Now, tell me, is this behaviordifferent from Dubai or is the
company doing somethingdifferently?
No, pretty much.
(39:50):
If you are doing B2B, the mediaconsumption behavior or the
audience behavior is same, okay,the only thing is that maybe,
maybe he might be reading he'llbe reading times of india here.
He might be reading, you know,gulf news there, right, or he
might be taking you know, uh, hemight.
He might have a no driver here.
He might be driving his own carthere.
So those subtle differencesthat that we would make.
(40:14):
Another important thing is whenyou are doing a global brand and
buying a media inventory from acentral team, buying and out
doing creative from centralthing, you will have full
control over the entire media,entire communication, okay.
So when you have full controlon what goes out, what should be
(40:35):
the communication and whoshould be seeing your
communication and whichplacements, that's when you get
full control over what goes outand you can also bring in
efficiency down.
Let me give you one very goodexample.
Pretty much no I I see that no,most of the companies know who
(40:55):
are doing.
You know digital marketing.
Okay, they do auto placements.
Or whenever I know someone isdoing YouTube or no campaign,
they do auto placements.
Auto placements that you feedin your audience and of a
profile in the system algorithmwill run out speed or run your
ad to Homer.
It takes it is good in some way.
(41:17):
But context matters.
In which context your targetaudience is seeing your ad is
very, very important.
He might be your targetaudience, but what if a B2B ad
is surfaced when he's actuallywatching a song?
What if it is actually consumedwhen he's actually playing a
game?
He might be a target audience,but the context is missed, right
(41:38):
, so the the probability of forhim to take an action is is
missed, okay, so you may not beable to convert that user, you
may not be able to bring thatuser to know to your website.
So instead, what we do is wenever trust any of the
algorithms.
We have prepared a manualdatabase where we pick no
(42:00):
audiences, audience profiles.
We also handpick no placements,like with YouTube channels, on
genre ways.
If it is news, we have no newsno channels.
If it is no tech publication,we have tech publications.
If it is no general, nochannels.
If it is no tech publication,we have tech publications.
If it is no general, no sports,like that entertainment.
We have no full plan.
(42:21):
It's manually done.
It's very cumbersome, it's along process, but if you get
this done, you will have fullcontrol and then, when the same
audience is actually browsingyour internet, when he sees your
ad, the chance of him gettingconversion is higher.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
This is like extremely nuanced but very
valuable insight, for even likean independent creator, for
example.
Yeah, yeah yeah, andspecifically for founders, early
stage who don't have enoughbudgets.
I think that's very valuable,like a little more understanding
for me.
I had bunch of questions.
My response was so deep rightyeah, because I had like several
questions across, uh, but Ithink one thing, yes, one thing
(43:02):
I'd like to double click is soyou specifically said
negotiating at media houses.
Right, like, uh, I mean, maybefor the audience, how much does
it cost for an ad, maybe acrossthe day?
Maybe morning is a particularprice in the afternoon and
evening, like, just give us alittle insight on that it
depends on the medium.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Which medium do you want to know?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
like maybe, like what are the various mediums right?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
like maybe whatever mediums hall was packed.
Okay, I picked a no spot orderlike no.
I negotiated, saying that, okay, I want my ad to be run just
before the moving movie getstarted or after interval, just
before the movie gets started.
I paid a premium price there,but that premium price is
one-tenth of what I would payfor Starplus and still you get
(43:45):
that confined attention withthat sound, with that experience
.
So these are some of the veryunorthodox what we have done.
An outdoor spot outside theairport costs you 5 lakhs.
A spot inside the airport willcost you 25 lakhs, but this in
(44:06):
fact had cost you just 1 lakh.
Same audience traveling to thesame road, traveling to the same
airport and sitting inside theairplane.
Now, if you see, he might missyour outdoor, he might miss your
airport ad because he'schecking his boarding passes or
time and all, but he cannot missan ad which is pasted on the
(44:27):
right in front of his scene.
And you'll be traveling twohours or four hours and you
don't have anything to do.
But just look at the ad.
Do you think an agency willrecommend this kind of
properties?
No, and our sas ecosystem orfounders think that, okay, uh,
ad advertising is expensive.
It is, but there are alsocreative ways of no no, placing
(44:52):
your ads right god.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
I think this is a wonderful example Just the
airport piece right.
So as preparation for thispodcast, I was because I
personally really like Zoho andthe value prop it has, like
India first building from Indiafor the world.
I was randomly talking topeople I know and asking them
what are some words that come toyour mind when, like when, I
say Zoho?
So, very interestingly, whatpopped up is enterprise software
(45:18):
, but from India.
Some folks said person fromChennai, the person who's
wearing like a vesti right.
And I think they said like fromtattoo in village in a cycle.
That was something which cameup and that's something which
stuck with me also and maybelike you've played some part in
it or like a critical piece init, like.
So any any insight on that andlet the relevance kind of
(45:39):
there's a backstory to it.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Okay, back in 2014, when we uh launched made in a
made for the world campaign, andthat's when we also had our
flagship as all.
It's a event plan, okay, andSridhar was, you know, was was
doing keynote.
Okay, then I had to, you know,design a costume.
Okay, design, you know what heshould be or the entire team
(46:01):
should be wearing, okay.
So somehow I had this feelingthat, okay, when you are seeing
me in a mate for the world, okay, when you are, when you, you
know, showing or celebratingcraftsmen and we are showing,
you know, you're talking aboutheart and soul and passion,
passionate and all.
Okay, you cannot spoil thatwith actually wearing a T-shirt,
(46:24):
a Nike T-shirt or Levi's jeans.
Okay, you cannot talk aboutMade in India and wear something
else.
Right, I thought it has to bevery Indian.
Then I said let's do somethingvery Indianish.
And that's when we designed akurta, black kurta, linen kurta.
(46:44):
I gave it to Sridhar and hesaid what is it?
I said, if you are making anauthentic story, if you are
making a presentation, I thinkyou should be wearing this.
Okay, and again, as with anyother campaigns, we had
resistance internally Sayingthat, okay, we are looking like
that.
We are looking like politicians.
We are looking at who is who isactually wearing.
You know, it company orsoftware company, all this stuff
(47:06):
like okay, so no, if you knowmaking authentic points with
them, I am made for the world.
I'm really proud of you know,my indianness, my origin, my, my
roots.
I think this is the this thingwe should do.
Okay, out of resistance, youknow, somehow, like everybody,
(47:26):
you know, uh, you know, use that, okay.
And then again audience wasshocked to see, like you imagine
, a company who is actuallycompeting against Google and
Microsoft and whatnot.
And they come to see a man whois wearing a kurta and dhoti and
talking about technology andperformance and scalability and
(47:48):
whatnot, and he fought up withRajiv Vigasana, who was actually
talking about what's next andstuff like that.
Okay, there's some mismatchbetween what they are saying and
how they are looking.
And that become a hit.
Right, see, these guys looklike any of us, but they are
talking something else, right,okay, so that actually resonate
(48:12):
with the audience so well, okay.
And then it become a hit.
Now.
It became a hit internally alsoand past that event.
Wherever we went, oursalespeople and everybody
started wearing this for theevents.
If you walk into any of theevents and you'll have all the
(48:33):
competition wearing suit and youwill find one booth where
people will be standing blackkurthas.
Who are they?
And then they start discoveringthey are from India, they are
from Chennai, they have anoffice in Tengasi, so it all
(48:53):
started connecting.
So most people wouldn't havediscovered they have an office
in Tengasi, so it all startedconnecting.
Okay, so most people wouldn'thave discovered Zoho through
Made in a Mate for the World,but they might have discovered
Zoho through Kurta.
Okay, and even the goodies thatwe gave at our events were
handmade.
We had a team of artists in ourteam Okay, in my team, very
talented artists.
(49:14):
Okay, we have a team of artistsartists in our team okay, in my
team, very talented artists.
Okay, I got them to do, youknow, handmade artwork like
Kalamkari art and traditionalart all oil paintings, acrylic
and stuff like that.
We printed that on notebook,which was handmade paper.
We also had neem pencil okay,in that.
And every book carried a noartist name okay, we took pride
(49:37):
in no celebrating our no cultureand roots okay, and we gave
that to no people.
Okay, people were actuallysmelling the neem pencil at the
event.
So what I'm trying to say isthat, okay, this whole thing of
no authenticity was actuallyviewed around all our no
communications In ad, in ourpresence, in our communications,
(49:57):
in our presentations, in ourgoodies, everything and this
also started bringing in changeinternally.
I think I would suggest everyentrepreneur to be as authentic
as possible and, if possible, ifyou have any story of your
roots, like if you are fromJharkhand, or if you are from
nasik, or if you are from noarsikere, which is no, uh, okay,
(50:20):
just try to know, actuallybring out that essence in in
somehow.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Okay, and be proud of your no or your origin or your
roots, that's all that's abeautiful message, and and that
leads me to the founder of Zohoitself, right, because you've
closely worked with him, like Ifind him to be an icon.
I kind of look at his writingand then his videos and
interviews, because you'veworked so closely with him.
(50:46):
He's a national icon, so we'dlove to know any specific things
you picked up from hisleadership, something that stays
with you, which might beinspiring for our founders and
entrepreneurs, who are kind ofwatching.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Absolutely.
There are a lot of things youknow very inspiring or very what
to say inspiring about SridharVembu.
One thing is that you know he'sneutral to success and failure.
He doesn't, you know, overreactto any success.
He doesn't overreact tofailures also, he's just neutral
.
That's something I would liketo know him from him.
(51:23):
Another thing is the trust heplaces on people.
See, I was just a designer inthe company.
I don't know how he picked upand how he trusted me to give
this kind of role.
Of course there was aprogressive way, but somehow he
identifies talent and,irrespective of whether he has
an experience or not, or whetherhe's a man or a girl or whoever
it is, he just goes ahead,that's all.
(51:45):
And he's very approachable.
If you have an idea, you canjust pick up on a call and you
can speak to him.
He conducts open house everyweek, every Friday, and the kind
of questions he answers.
I mean I still remember do aCEO of such a big company should
(52:06):
answer this?
He still answers that.
So he's one of those kind ofperson, got it?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
So I think it was such a great learning experience
for me personally to know theinsights behind what led to Zoho
becoming such a global brandLike I think some core pieces
were authenticity, make itsimple, make it playful and
serve the customer in all formsand fashion and be very
efficient in cost, and it wassuch a delight talking to you.
(52:36):
Thank you so much, rafiq, andwe're really having.
It was a big pleasure havingyou.
Speaker 1 (52:41):
My pleasure too, Tehran.
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4 (52:48):
Dear listeners, thank you for listening to this
episode of the podcast.
Subscribe now on your favoritepodcast app for free and you'll
be the first one to know whennew episodes are available.
Just search for Prime VenturePartners Podcast in Apple
Podcast, spotify, castbox orhowever.
You get your podcasts, then hitsubscribe and if you have
(53:09):
enjoyed the show, we would bereally grateful if you leave us
a review on Apple Podcast.
To read the full transcript,find the link in the show.
We would be really grateful ifyou leave us a review on Apple
podcast.
To read the full transcript,find the link in the show notes.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.