Interview with The Date - Owen / Never Kill a Boy - RE-VAMPED with Juliet Landau

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:00):
Tonight on Buffy In a world of evil.
What's he doing here?
Who can the chosen one trustBUFFY?

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Critics call it the surprise hit of the season.
Buffy tonight on the WB.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello, hello, I'm Juliet Psst.
We're going to slay.
Want to come?
Well, we are so excited thatyou are here today.

(00:43):
I am just so thrilled.
We want to talk to you aboutyour career, your life and, of
course, Owen on Buffy theVampire Slayer.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Fantastic.
Yeah, I'm really excited.
It was actually, I think, mysecond guest star.
I think I'd done a couplelittle co-stars, and then I got
a show called Dark Skies withEric Close who's still a friend
and and then I got buffy rightafter that, and at the time
buffy was not on the air yet, no, and so it was this sort of
this little unknown thing and itwas like when you knew the

(01:15):
movie and it was kind of like atthe time it was sort of a
little show that could, andeverybody was like what is it?
Is it, is it really gonna go?
Everybody the cast was stillgetting to know each other.
It was funny because DavidBoreanaz he was actually kind of
upset because I got the firstkiss so I didn't even get a kiss
from him.
Yet yeah, david was like oh,come on, man, you need to kiss

(01:37):
Sarah before I do.
What's going on here?

Speaker 2 (01:40):
So I can't wait to get more in depth into Buffy.
Let's go back first and justcan you talk a little bit about
growing up in Washington andwhat your childhood and your
life was like there?

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Reservation.
It used to be completely knownfor apples.
Now it's actually now.
It's quite a lot of good wineis coming from the Yakima Valley
.
Pears a ton of orchards,nothing to complain about.
By the time I was born, myfather was an attorney in a firm
in Yakima and my mother taughtat the college.
She was a PhD in English,actually being Danish and
English was actually her fourthlanguage and she had a PhD in it

(02:27):
.
And then my sister was nineyears older than me, so she was
gone most of my growing up, butshe went to Columbia, undergrad,
harvard Law, and then becamethis sort of this big to-do
attorney on Fox News for a while.
Yeah, so it was a goodchildhood.
I was in a lot of sports andgot good enough grades to get
into the University ofWashington barely and discovered

(02:49):
theater, kind of by accident.
I was driving in the summer ineastern Washington to go over
the lake with my friend and wegot pulled over.
We thought we got pulled overby a policeman and this was in
the middle of nowhere Waterford,like Waterville, washington and
a policeman says no, no,actually we're not pulling you
over.
You know, you probably werespeeding.
There's a movie being shot upthere and we were like no way,

(03:11):
why is it?
When you're on set, peoplesometimes ask you well, why are
you shooting here?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Because we need this location.
This looks like something, sowe finally can we go up and see
it.
And so, literally, we drive upand there's this one farmhouse,
it's it, fields and fields andfields of wheat, huge lights.
There's this big, there's thisbig crane, a guy up the top kind
of screaming at people doingthis, and that there's probably

(03:39):
200 people all around and andI'm watching this, I'm just my
jaw drops.
And then out of this littleshack, they, they say cut.
And this guy, tall, handsomeguy, brad johnson, comes out, uh
, and with holly hunter, and itwas the movie always and they're
, and oh wow, the spielberg filmyeah up on the thing and I go

(04:02):
to my buddy.
he said that's what I want to do.
Of course I went to theUniversity of Washington.
I was a drama major there, Didplays like Henry V and Owl and
the Pussycat.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yes, and so the Owl and the Pussycat is a two-hander
.
I know because I have worked onit and stuff you also did.
You do Lone Star, is thatcorrect?
That's right.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
I did Lone Star.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
God, yeah, that's right, I did Lone Star.
God, yeah, that's right, I didLone Star and I love the theater
.
And my instructor, Robin Hunt,was like no, no, no, you're TV.
I think I think you're TV.
And I was like, all right, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
I'm TV and I moved to .
Well, I graduated, and then ABCDaytime was doing a yes, can
you say how?
Because you did this whole,like you won this major search
right.
Yeah, it was a national search.
I came to Seattle, I'dliterally just graduated from
college and I was like, well, doI really do this?
Do I go to law school Again?
Because my father was a lawyer,my sister was a lawyer, my
grandfather was a judge, and soI was like well, I auditioned
for Mary Lynn Henry, who was shewas the president of ABC
daytime casting at the time,1993.

(05:03):
And she came out and Iauditioned and she said, all
right, I've got texas and oneother place, but you're, you're
the choice for seattle.
And you know, she kind ofwinked and nod.
She said I, you know, I, youknow, the year before or two
years before she took brendanfraser and then she also took
james caviezel, who was myfraternity brother.
So we were super guys at theuniversity of washington.

(05:24):
So she had a pretty good trackrecord.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, good taste.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Brendan went three years before me, I think, and
Jim went maybe two years beforeme.
She flew me to New York and Imet with all the soaps and I was
designated all my children, or,as they say in the day, all my
kids, because that was the tallsoap.
But I had to wait.
I had to wait.
They didn't have a part for meyet.
Now you're you're young andit's just like you're already

(05:49):
here.
It's just like that's insane.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Like yeah, well, that was, yeah I literally didn't.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
So obviously I got agents from that.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
So I was 20, 22,.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Poor broke, so they didn't have a part for me.
So I had two jobs.
I was a personal trainer in themorning and then I would go on
auditions, and I was a GAPsecurity guard at night.
I just applied to the GAPbecause that's what you did in
1993.
There's GAPs everywhere, but Icouldn't fold clothing.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I was a horrible horrible, horrible was you were
not suited well for the gap job.
No, no.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
And they were like wow, this guy.
And I asked my wife, I stillcan't fold clothes.
But they said they looked at meand I was like wait a minute,
you're like 6'3", right, almost200 pounds.
And yeah, I'm 6'3", yeah, 195,something like that.
How about would you want tobecome a security guard and we
would pay you $3 more an hourand you don't have to fully
close, you stand by the doorwith a walkie talkie yeah great,

(06:45):
yeah, so I did that and and uh,they stole the store.
I was a terrible security guard.
I'd like count sunglasses atthe end and I was like we lost
three more.
I'm like I I don't know what totell you.
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
You know you had other things on your mind.
There was other places you weregoing to go.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
It was a lousy yeah, as you can tell, I've got a lot
of energy and a lot of focuseverywhere, so that didn't last
too long.
And then I moved to Los Angelesbecause I said, well, I'll wait
in Los Angeles instead of NewYork.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Oh, I was going to ask you something.
So you mentioned that your dadwas an attorney.
Was he also with the FBI?
Is that correct you?

Speaker 1 (07:25):
mentioned that your dad was an attorney.
Was he also with the FBI?
Is that correct?
He was in the FBI.
Yes, my dad was in the FBI.
They were in Utah with my mom.
I think my sister was bornright around there and then they
moved to Dallas-Fort Worth whenKennedy was shot and he was the
, in fact, until he died.
He was talking about Lee HarveyOswald's wife, but he was the
point guy for her.

(07:45):
What?

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, so he got to know her.
He was also one of the guysthat went out tested the shot
and he was a company man.
He said to this day there wasno conspiracy, there was no
Oswald act alone.
Now, maybe he was manipulatedsome other way, but the FBI
never had that.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
And did he also?
Was he involved in theMississippi riots and
investigating that as well?

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yes, he was, yes, he was.
He had to move motels everyother night because they were
trying to blow him up.
So, yeah, crazy From a personalstandpoint.
He had a toothache and he drovefrom Dallas to Oxford,
mississippi, and he was also inNatchez, but mainly Oxford.
All he's talking about is like,yeah, these guys are trying to
blow me up, but I had the worsttoothache, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
And I couldn't find a good dentist in Mississippi to
get my tooth fixed.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
The FBI back then too , you either had to be, you had
to have a law degree to get inor you had to be an accountant.
So you had to have not onlyobviously undergraduate, you had
postgraduate degrees to getinto the FBI at that point.
And Hoover was pretty tough onall those guys.
So you know, when we asked himquestions, my son would ask him
questions too and and hey, youknow, would you, did you ever,

(08:52):
did you ever kill anybody?
And my dad would always kind ofsay, well, I definitely had
some scrapes.
But then if you ask him, didyou ever fire your gun?
He would say yes, I fired mygun.
And what he'd always say is isFBI agents, when you fired your
gun, you weren't shooting towound or to stop, you were
shooting to kill.
You shot to kill.
If you didn't kill your targetin one bullet, hoover had you

(09:16):
writing, reason by reason, byreason by reason, why you had to
discharge more than one bullet.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh, two suspects.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Per suspect One.
No, use Two suspects Persuspect One bullet per suspect.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Wow, that's intense.
How was it for you, I mean, didyou think this was like
everyone had this kind ofupbringing?
Did you know that it was sortof unusual?
What was that like for yougrowing up with that?

Speaker 1 (09:39):
So to me, I guess I just kind of grew up with that
kind of normal.
I mean, they were tough parents.
My parents were very strict.
I had to make grades, I had tobe in.
You know, obviously I lovedsports, but it was certainly
there was always a bar.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
It wasn't just sort of you know, there was an
expected sort of excellence andthe bar was there and I would
always go right to the bar.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Right, right, have some balance in your life, but
was it a pressure because ofthat?
Because you're all obviouslyexceedingly high achievers, so
was that a pressure always tofeel like you had to go up to
that bar?

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Absolutely, absolutely, and it strengthened
me.
I mean I, you know, I mean Ithink that I think sometimes and
my dad knew this that I was atough kid and so he knew he
could press certain buttons toget what he thought I needed out
of me and I did and I still,then still had managed to have
fun and have a, you know, have agood life.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
But yeah, there was definitely definite pressures,
stuff that you know took time towork through as an adult, but
you know, especially with myfather, how did all of that
inform how you went aboutraising your son, like, how did
you decide, okay, what wasvaluable to take and what you
wanted to do differently?

Speaker 1 (10:52):
I think I took two definite things.
One I took the somewhatsternness with my son, because
my son has so much capacity andis this you know, he's gosh,
he's 15.
He's a beautiful kid, he'salready six.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Two and and um, you make a family of specimens.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
He's this great kid and he's so sweet and and, but
he needs to be pushed.
You know I'm not one of theseparents that that want to be his
friend.
You know, and I have two stepkids too that are amazing and
they all know that I'm not theirbuddy, I'm their dad and maybe
someday we can be buddies.
But until their brains haveformed and they're responsible,

(11:32):
great human beings, that my jobis not to be buddies, my job is
to be a parent at the same time.
My parents never which is sortof the time that it was to they
never really hugged me.
They never really said thatthey loved me.
I mean they did and I knew theydid.
It's not like I was gosh mom.
You never told me that you loveme.
I mean my wife, my wife, she,my dad, would tell Sharon all

(11:58):
the time I love you, I love it.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
I'm like oh, what about me?
I know like all right, whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
No, both my mom and my dad.
The I love you's for my wifewas like all over the place.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
What am I chopped liver?
What's going on here, Right?

Speaker 1 (12:14):
So I tell my son every phone call when I'm with
him, I tell him all the time Ilove him, I hug him.
So I've kind of taken both goodand bad from what my parents
taught me.
You know, we all make mistakes,yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
So when you book the series regular on Bull, what was
that like?
And tell us a little bit aboutthat job.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Oh, it was a great job.
First of all, I'd done two bigpilots the two years before that
weren't picked up.
One was a pilot called BronxCounty.
That was brilliant.
It was a huge show with SidneyPollack producing Thomas Carter
directing.
John Sacred Young was producer Imean big producers and
unfortunately it didn't go, butit was big enough to get me a

(12:57):
deal at CBS.
So then I did a deal.
I did the next pilot withAmanda Peete called Partners,
with Mark Helgenberger and abunch of people, and that was a
really good show, john check,and really good show.
And and again, it was notpicked up at the deadline.
So, as you know, it was rightat the end.
That's when pilot season we'retalking about what 99, 98 I mean
the pilot season was pilotseason.

(13:17):
Back then it was, yes, it wasall out from, you know,
basically mid-january, until youbooked, usually right, that's.
If you didn't, then you wereexhausted at the end of April or
whatever, right.
But I read the script to Bullin, say May, I read the
character Carson Boyd, wetbehind the ears, broker, with
strong values and sort of thisbig St Bernard, and I read it.

(13:41):
It was the writing from MichaelChernichin who had executive
produced Law and Order ForeverBrilliant, brilliant writer.
And it's one of those showswhere the dialogue you just you
say it, you read it once and youknow it.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
It goes in because it's so well-written.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
It's so well-written.
It's thought after thought,after thought, right and and and
that that paid off because atone point the show was short,
they'd cut a monologue that Ihadn't even seen.
They gave him the monologue thenight before.
They were Chris, we got toshoot this tomorrow.
You want it last or first up?
And I was like I'll take firstup because I'm fresh in the
morning.
And then they made it a one-erwith a baby.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Oh, my gosh, then do they want you on your head also,
and juggling it all at the sametime?
My gosh, just keep those likekey.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Keith was like he samples right.
He was like I'm going to goaround, I'm going to do it.
So he came with the one and hegot the baby and I'm like, yeah,
yeah, and it was a greatmonologue about Roger Maris and
the Baseball Hall of Fame andhow I was going to take my son.
It was a baby who cooed at onepoint and I'm like, oh my God,
we got it in two right.
We moved on Right exactly Right,exactly, it's like.

(14:42):
So we got, I was on thisrocking chair, I picked the baby
up, I sat with the baby andthen we did the bidding.
And I mean that was on my reel,god, for I mean way too long,
because I was like, all right,I'm really not however old I was
then 28.
Now I got to take it off thereel, but it was great Liz.
Rowe.
Liz Rowe was on the show.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh my gosh, yeah, because we worked together on
Angel.
Yeah, yeah, she was working onAngel.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
She was finishing up on Angel when she shot the pilot
, and then that's right, that'sright, it was Liz and Alicia
Coppola and George Newberg.
And then the guest cast too, Imean Stanley Tucci did the first
six episodes.
Donald Moffat, larry MillerFabulous, yes, larry Miller,
larry.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Miller.
I love Larry Miller he was sofunny.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
He's best friends with Michael Trinich and the
showrunner and in the pilotthere's a scene where I get in
trouble.
Something happens and I'mpulled up with Donald Moffat
who's the grandfather.
He's the patriarch of thestockbroker firm and Larry's
kind of his henchman.
And Larry was he would leer atme in these things and I was
like, finally, I was like Larry,you're so funny, like literally
he is.
He just sits there and he'sfunny.
Right, one of the funniest.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
I mean, he's somebody who's funny.
I'm like Larry, you can't, youcan't.
Please let me get through this.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
We're never going to get this.
You have to tone me down.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
We're never going.
And Donald was like Donald.
You got to call me a junkyarddog, dude.
You got to use the clear andpresent danger quotes, donald,
because he played the presidentof the United States.
It was a wonderful show.
It was my first series to go tonetwork.
It was TNT's first originalseries Poured a ton of money
into it.
Unfortunately, we shot 22,.
But I think when episode fouror five or six hit, the stock

(16:30):
market crashed.
Oh yeah, so we were so oh mygosh.
I mean Michael was pitching theshow for 10 years.
He finally pitched it at WarnerBrothers and we shot 22.
I only think maybe 14 aired,which was a real bummer Such a
bummer.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
It's so crazy how just you know timing is
everything right timing iseverything.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I mean it's if I had a nickel almost for my series
where you know, the next one wasfirst monday, which with james
garner and charlie durning, joemontagna and and myself, I mean,
I mean literally, and then toobad.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
It's not a strong cast or anything right.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I know, and that's just some of the Supreme Court
justices.
Well, it was Donald Belisariowho did everything.
It was Don's show and Dondirected the pilot.
But I'll never forget the nightwe premiered.
David Letterman did a joke onhis monologue saying did anybody
see First Monday?
That premiered on a Tuesday?
That's actually going to air ona Friday.

(17:26):
Yeah, goodbye, See you later.
Huge expensive show Mid-seasonreplacement and we were off and
they aired all 12.
It was a mid-season replacement, but they didn't pick it up.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Oh my gosh, and what was you said earlier?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
you had a story and we said wait, wait, wait till
we're on camera with James.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Garner and Charles Durning.
So please share with us, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
So I was the young guy again on first Monday and I
had a lot of wonderful scenes, alot of wonderful work with,
obviously with James Garner whoplayed the Chief Justice, and
Charlie Durning, second WorldWar.
But I mean, you know storiesand, joe, I remember one day I
drove up.
I would usually in location'dusually drive a Bronco, but this

(18:10):
time I drove up and at least aPorsche.
I just thought that my successwas just never going to end.
I mean, it was just going tokeep going.
I was just going to work for 40years and there wouldn't be any
bumps in the road.
You know, it's reallyclairvoyant.
So I drive up and James iswalking, walking in, and he
looks at me and looks at my car,said son, come sit down.

(18:30):
Are you saving your money?
I don't know.
Yeah, kind of.
I didn't buy it, it's a lease.
You will have bad years.
Charlie Durning pipes in hell.
I've had bad decades.
Wow'm like, wow, all right,guys be a killjoy.
But no, I took that, yeah, andfortunately I was all right.
I invested in property and Idid things.

(18:52):
I didn't.
You know, that was my one bigsort of three years.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Extravagance.
Extravagance and it was fun, youknow I turned was such great
advice Hearing from people likethat.
You know we actually Guillermodel Toro mentored us on my
directorial feature debut andone of the things he was saying

(19:15):
is that he has spent more of histime not working in his life
and pitching and things notcoming together and he's like,
if I put it all together, mydirecting time of my life is
like a decade, it's like 10years, but all this stuff in
between and it's people don'trealize that when you look at a
successful career, that evenpeople that are working to that

(19:37):
level still are not working tothe degree that people think
they are, that they want to be.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
I remember when I was in New York and it was a
commercial audition, I thought,and there was an older gentleman
in there and he was obviouslyauditioning for something else
and I was, I think I gosh, if Icould just get this commercial,
I could just get paid for this.
If I go do this commercial, Icould work on this commercial, I
get paid.
I could, you know, I could paybills.
And he said son, the work youdo for free, it's the waiting

(20:07):
you get paid for.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
Wow, that's great, and I was like wow that's geez.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, I should really be getting paid a lot then.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I should be a multi-millionaire.
Well, guillermo told us thatthe day after he had swept the
Oscars with the Shape of Water,he went in for a pitch at Fox
and was kind of had a swagger inhis step and he did this, went
through this whole pigeon and hegot turned down right on the
spot in the room and he was likewhat?

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Like seriously what is it?
It's always.
It's not for the faint of heart.
I always I talk at theuniversity of Washington
whenever I go back to the dramakids and and I always say the
for my first question to all ofthem they say listen you think
you could do anything else.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Anything else, yeah, you should.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yes, you should if you feel like you can, if you
think you could do anything elseand be somewhat happy, go, do
it.
Go now, even now.
There used to be a very, verysmall working class actor that
was maybe 3,000 or 4,000 of us,maybe 5,000 at a time 6,000.
Now I don't know that there isthat anymore.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
No, it's sort of like what's happened in our country,
where there is no middle.
It's either high or low.
There isn't the working actorthat makes a constant living as
an actor.
That has really gone by thewayside, I think.
So, yeah, because again, thecommercials.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
There's no, there's no, there's not many union
commercials anymore.
I mean, I made them my firstcouple of years.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
I did a ton of commercials.
Yeah, Did you get my SAG cardwas a commercial.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yeah, I was the Lee Jean guy.
I was.
Yeah, I was such a newbie.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
I didn't even know like I went to the audition.
It was actually a really funaudition.
That was all improvisation andI kind of went I want to do
movies.
And then I booked it and thenwhen I went for the wardrobe
fitting they said you must beexcited, this is a national
commercial.
I didn't even know what that.
I was like what does that mean?
And they said oh, it's,especially at that time it was a

(22:04):
lot of money.
And I was like what does thatmean?

Speaker 1 (22:06):
And they said oh, it's, especially at that time it
was a lot of money and I waslike, okay, this is a good thing
, I'm getting very excited now,right, yeah, no, lee Jeans, I
had a Ford truck campaign.
I bought my first road bikewith a Ford truck campaign money
in it.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Not a Porsche.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean can't enable you.
Campbell Soup with WayneGretzky, pamela Anderson and
Pizza Hut International.
Pizza Hut with Pamela Anderson.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I want to ask you because I think also the Buffy
audience would like.
I'd love to ask you a littlebit, because you've guest
starred on so many shows.
What was it like guest starringon Charmed for you?

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Charmed was great.
I'll always remember Charmedbecause I worked later with
Shannon again.
Shannon was amazing.
Shannon was I'm sure is whatyou call.
Shannon was sort of a dame, butshe was, she was, she was great
.
I call it the show that lastsfor centuries, because we
started shooting it in 99 and wefinished it in 2000 and
somebody got sick, or one of thegirls maybe.
Um, it just took literally likecenturies to shoot the show and

(23:01):
I remember because I was doinger at the same time and so so
there was a couple rubbing insome conflicts and and shannon
was great, holly was great,alicia was, they were really
nice and and we had fun becauseI was playing a bad villain,
which I love doing.
Uh, I was, I was, I think I wasa snake that would turn into a
human and there was a coupleother guys, a couple other

(23:22):
really good other actors thatplayed that and we just kind of
chased the girls around, I thinkfor an hour.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
I like how you say that so casually too, because
obviously it's a supernaturalshow, but I think I was a snake
that turned it on, and you justsay it in passing.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
I got to ask because I'm staring at the poster this
whole time.
Playmakers.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
You are obviously an athlete in real life as well,
and you've played a number ofathletes, so yeah, I would love
to hear about Playmakers as well.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Again.
Here's an interesting thing.
I never would have seen theaudition, but I used to get the
breakdowns.
Oh yeah, I did that too.
I would call the breakdowns,and I love Gersh.
I was with Gersh at the timebut my quote was here and
playmakers was only paying.
Oh, so they hadn't submittedyou, they didn't submit me, so I

(24:09):
I called my manager.
I said I want it on this show,no matter what happens, I want
it on the show.
It was less than half my quoteand it was favored nations, it
was orly allison, was keneisenrath, you um who he was
coming off, and I don't know acouple other things, but again,
brilliantly written.
What I didn't know is theywrote a monologue for the
quarterback mcconnell and theygave it to me.
I went in and it was probably,if not my bull.

(24:30):
Audition was really great frompeter roth and president warren
brothers, but the playmakeraudition was so good it just
clicked.
Yeah, I just clicked and it was.
It was a quarterback and it wasfront of all my team and it was
a rallying thing and they werejust sort of like sitting there
going, okay, can you waitoutside.
And they came, came back andthey said we have one note.
Can you play it maybe a littlebit more, a little lower, a

(24:52):
little.
I did that and they're likegreat.
I went home, they called, theysaid they want you to come back
because they really want you toplay the lead, they really want
you to play the linebacker andand credit casting meg, meg
lieberman.
And meg was like chris, you'rethe quarterback, stick with your
story, go back in meet withthem again.
And so I went back in and Isaid that.

(25:12):
I said, yeah, you know what,the pilot and maybe some of the
first season will not be asheavy on the quarterback, but if
I do my job right, the secondseason, the third season, will
be all about the quarterback.
And they were like, okay, theymade some changes to, they had
some plans for the quarterback,they completely rewrote it.
We had a wonderful time intoronto.
The crazy thing was we were intoronto for six months.

(25:34):
The show premiered there,didn't premiere in canada, so we
didn't really have any idea.
We saw pictures of us, you know, on buildings, on skyscrapers,
on buses.
I mean I mean the ad campaign.
Espn just went all out, disneywent all out, and so by the time
we did finally come back, thefirst night in New York, I took
a train down.
It was something I never, Inever, I, never, like never, I

(25:56):
had people mobbing me.
It was a crazy and thinking,and it was not just men, it was
women.
Women loved the show.
The great thing was it was somuch fun and we loved it.
And so, then again, timingratings are through the roof.
Critical acclaim right.
So we're gold.
As one of the president of Foxsaid, this is a Tiffany show.
You will get awards.
You will listen to that AFIDrama of the Year somewhere

(26:17):
Nicole Kidman gave me the thingand then, two weeks after I got
the AFI Drama of the Year, theycanceled us.
And they canceled us becausethe NFL, the owners of the NFL,
told Disney, who werenegotiating Monday night and
Sunday night football.
They said if you want ABC andESPN, if you want Sunday night,

(26:37):
monday night football, the veryfirst thing you do is cancel
playmakers, and not only cancelplaymakers, bury it so nobody
else could buy it.
So we go from, I go from.
I'm going to be on the show.
Yeah, the second season was allgoing to be.
It was a lot like a Brett Favrewho lost his dad, but it was
going to be a Brett Favre storywhere I would lose my dad.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Just, it was going to be a brett farb story where I
would lose my dad, and just likethat.
That's so insane.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
That's so heartbreaking, that experience.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
It was such a perfect role for you too, and I wanted
to explain to um the listenerswho don't know, when chris was
talking about favored nations.
That means in a contract whereall of the actors are being paid
the same amount of money, andthat's what favored nations
means.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
But yeah, they were all played, so we were all the
actors are being paid the sameamount of money, and that's what
favored nations means.
But yeah, they were all played,so we were all.
All the lead cast was paid, butthey all actually threw me a
party because what was not inthere, it was favored nations,
but all shows weren't guaranteed.
I think they were guaranteeing10 out of the 13 or whatever,
and my my agent was like I'm not, I'm not only taking half of my
salary cut, we're guaranteeingall the episodes, all the

(27:38):
episodes.
So I got that for the wholecast.
Wow.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
So were you told fairly quickly then from that
moment of the high to it beingcanceled.
That was kind of it sounds likeit happened pretty fast it did.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
It happened, and unfortunately this time it
happened sort of right as pilotseason was going.
So you go from this hit showGreat part, brilliant part it
seems inexplicable that thatwould happen.
I'm sure there's anotherexample of you have a hit show,
you're critically acclaimed andit's canceled.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
I don't know what it is, but no, there's the
political stuff that goes intoeverything.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Right right, exactly so.
I'm sure it's happened and so.
But then you have to thenreboot and go all right.
Well, I'm a professional actor,I've got to go.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Look for your next job.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Look for my next job.
I go from, I think, nine, 10years.
You know, I couldn't haveplayed a guest quarterback in my
day.
Maybe I could.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
But you know we can do these things.
People are 35 playing highschool, exactly Tom Brady look
at Tom Brady.
So I go from that to going inon some stuff and having a real
difficult time rebooting.
I got another athlete, which isfunny this is another funny
thing about Playmakers realquick.
So when I first got to LosAngeles, big tall, got athletic,
people would see me forathletic parts and I got a bunch
of athletic parts, guest stars.
But when Bronx County to play alawyer, they fought my manager
like no, no, he's an athlete, hecan't play a lawyer, he can't

(29:03):
play a Wall Street lawyer, hecan't do that.
So then I book Bronx Countywhere I played a lawyer, and
then I play another lawyer, andthen the next pilot and I play a
stockbroker and the next oneand after that I play a lawyer
again.
So when playmakers up the firstthing, they said no, no, no, he
wears too many suits, he's likea lawyer, he can't play an
athlete.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Oh my gosh, I know the imagination right.
My manager's like he is anathlete.
He is an athlete.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
And you change your outfit.
How did he do that?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
So will you talk to us a little bit about your film,
the Devil's Doll, which youstarred in, you wrote and you
produced, which is on IFC.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
It's more of a thriller horror, and it was
originally called Worry DollsOver the Guatemalan dolls that
are in a box.
You put your worries in them atnight.
Then in the morning yourworries are supposed to
disappear, right?
What happens if these dolls getinto the hands of a serial
killer that's being executed atmidnight?
He's whispering in all his sinsand all his worries into these
dolls, so the dolls really don'tget to exorcise the demons.

(30:03):
And then the next day thedetective takes the dolls'
evidence in his car and hisdaughter finds them, makes them
into jewelry and then the dollsare dispersed and mayhem hits.
And that's the film I was doingin Mississippi with Devil's
Dolls.
There's nothing to do withDevil, but that's.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
No, yeah, the original title sounds like it
really fit.
Evil Dead had no dead people.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, I think I have that poster.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
I have the original poster there with worry dolls on
it and IFC and the distributordoes what they and you're like.
But that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, ifc and Studio Canal picked it up too.
So we were like, all right,whatever you guys want to do,
and and there was times wedidn't have all the money.
I'm at walmart because that'sall there is.
There's one walmart and I'mwalking around calling my
investors going listen, if wedon't get this other 150k, we
don't get this 200k none of it'sgoing forward right.
Yeah, we shut down.
Our crew will walk.

(30:52):
Our crew is from california, ourcrews from new orleans our
crews from they, if they don'tget their paycheck on friday,
yeah, they will walk.
And I'm talking to my investorsthat are like saying all right,
oh yeah, yeah, well, you guyscan't, you can't do that.
We're getting on the leer hereon friday and going to new
orleans and we're gonna go cometo set.
I go, well, there's not gonnabe a set if you guys don't kick
in this amount of money or thisand they're sweating in stress.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I got goosebumps from that because I could the stress
I'd be, yeah, the constant,like oh, have you ever seen the
art limson movie?
I think it's called, what justhappened?
I think it's called and de nirois in it and he plays a
producer and he's sort of on thephone for a lot of the movie
and he's trying to put thisproject together and it's

(31:38):
basically like he's in thecorridor, like it keeps almost
happening, and then all thesethings it's actually you watch
it's not Wag the Dog, wag theDog is it's a little like that
yeah, wag the Dog.
Yes, it's.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Barry Levinson.
Yeah, one of his quotes is thisis nothing this is nothing.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
This is nothing.
I say that all the time.
Yeah, this is perfect.
Well, there was one time.
There's those movies, thatwhere they're really funny but
they also make you have heartpalpitations because you're like
, wait, this is too close tohome we're gonna bring it in.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
It's just, you know, and I and I and I always told my
big partner money guy, I said,listen, I always bring them in,
I always bring them in, I bringmy movies in, bring them in on
budget, but I gotta, I gottahave the, I gotta have certain
things, I gotta have this tobring them in.
You know, and and yeah, it's,yeah, it's gosh, it is, it's
making me getting hot, oh godyou ever see, oh, living in

(32:34):
oblivion oh, yeah, that'ssimilar, right?

Speaker 2 (32:36):
no, but yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
That's similar, right ?
No, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And Lost in La Mancha .
It's actually about the TerryGilliam movie with Johnny Depp
and everything that couldpossibly go wrong with the movie
, including one of the actors,that's right.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
With Marlon Brando.
Is that the one?
No?
You're thinking of Lost Souls.
The.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Richard Franklin movie.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
The Island of Dr Moreau.
The Island of Dr Moreau, which.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I read for actually, oh really.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Did you dodge a bullet?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
I was there when it was his movie to begin with and
actually, yeah, it went back andback and back and then it
changed from Richard Stanley tothat was a whole different movie
.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
And he was crazy.
Like they wouldn't, brandowouldn't leave his trailer and
then somebody else.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Oh, it was val kilner .
The famous quote with johnfrankenheimer, who took over
from richard stanley, was if Iwas making the val kilner biopic
, I would not hire val kilner,because it was that difficult.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Oh, my god we touched a little bit at at the
beginning and you were sharingsome of your experience.
How were you cast as Owen?

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Again walking into those little stages and it was
kind of a weird, you know, goingupstairs and it was again.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
It was kind of like a , where I think it was like a
fruit warehouse.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
It was something else .
Before I converted, theyconverted.
Did Buffy convert?
Convert it?
I wasn't sure if they did or orif it was somebody else, but I
think they did, but I'm not sureeither.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
But yeah, so you went up to the, the production at
the back they were looking for.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
You know, again, nobody really knew about the
show.
I didn't know.
You know buffy the vamp, so Iknew kind of the had you read a
script or just pages I?
I'm sure just pages.
Yeah, because I didn't haveagain it was.
I only had one guest star to myname, dark skies, maybe.
I did two guest stars, twosorry, two co-stars was a big

(34:39):
guest star and it was a big andso they worked with me a bunch
and and they I think what theythey liked is is sort of, again,
I'm six, two, six, three, so Iphysically I'm, but I had this
sort of this quality of naivete,wide-eyed again.
I think that's what they reallylike and I was.
I was again, I'd only been intown for probably maybe a year.
I'd only done, you know, like Isaid, I'd done several
commercials.
Jag was my, I did.

(35:01):
I had two lines on JAG wherethe plane blew up and I didn't
tell them that the thing thatburned my arm and so I was, so I
was so green, I was just like,oh marks, I gotta hit these
marks.
And so that was a real educationand to work with, obviously
with Sarah, who was, you know, Imean, she was a pro, you know,
she'd already been in thebusiness for you know 15 years

(35:22):
or whatever, and they were allNick, nicky.
Nick was just awesome, and Nickwas still wide eyed, he was
waiting tables two months before, you know, and and and Allison
was great, and obviouslyCharisma.
You know, charisma and I thenworked together.
We worked together on that.
We did a movie in South Africatogether and then we did we just

(35:43):
did this series that I've beendoing the last couple of years,
and so it was.
You know, we were with Charismaforever.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Wow, and how was Owen described to you?
What was the adjectives andsort of the tenor?

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Obviously you're saying sort of your
wide-eyedness was part of that.
Yeah, sort of wide-eyed, sortof naive, smart and intellect,
you know.
And so you know, when I sawthat I was like, oh boy, I'm
going to really have to do someacting.
But they wanted him to be sweet, but not overly sensitive,
because Sarah was so tough, likeyou couldn't be like weak or

(36:18):
anything, but it was.
It was a great characterbecause it was sensitive.
He was sensitive, he's, he'scaring, he's thoughtful, he's,
he is wide-eyed but he's smart.
And he wasn't afraid to besmart.
And then again, at the end, Imean, the turn is you know, this
is amazing.
I, I want to keep doing this.
This is incredible.
Like when can we do it again?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
What do you think for you was the essence and the key
for your way into the character?

Speaker 1 (36:45):
The essence of him being so sweet but also knowing
poetry and like my mother whowas a PhD in English and taught
Shakespeare, so that for me wassort of natural getting into
that.
I know I know a lot ofliterature, mom.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, that's perfect.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Right, but you had all that background Emily
Dickinson and so that for me wasthat was a real help, and to
know how, just like literature,just like music, really good
literature, really good music ithopefully transforms you to a
different place.
It can even change bodychemistry, right, and and that's

(37:22):
what I always look for in music, the same way I like songs,
that that move me, that remindme of things that take me
somewhere, and and and same withliterature.
And I think that's how I kindof grew into owen and then also
sort of his again, his sort ofnaivete I come from a small town
and so moving to new y Owen,and then also sort of his again
his sort of naivete I come froma small town and so moving to
New York and then moving to LosAngeles.
It's very similar, you know.

(37:44):
I mean, I think as a young kidtoo, I didn't have sarcasm as
much in small towns Sarcasm isnot really more people, and now
I'm a really sarcastic guy.
So I go home and people are likeis he serious?
My mother-in-law all the timeis like is he?

Speaker 2 (38:00):
kidding right now.
Is he joking, or is that?

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Nicholas was so fresh too and so funny.
David was great I mean DavidMidwest guy so we got along
great and everybody didn't.
They didn't again, we weren'ton the air, they weren't on the
air, so it wasn't.
Nobody knew on the air.
Yeah, they weren't on the airso so it wasn't, nobody knew.
And that's kind of that's.
If you can get those sort ofspecial, julia, I'm sure you
know too, you get.
You get kind of in before forme we were all young kids really

(38:26):
having fun did you know thereference to soylent green like,
were you familiar with the?
I was not, and then they told mewow, yeah, and my coach, james
reese, always mentions soylentgreen too, which is funny.
But so I, so, yeah, I, I Iwasn't at the time, and again he
, again he's this deep thinker.
You know he's very literate,obviously knows his films.

(38:46):
That was really fun to kind of,because again in high school a
lot of those times you knowthose kids are ostracized or put
out to be sort of this, thischaracter.
That's rewarded.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Desirable yeah, that's rewarded for, and
desirable, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
He's kind of an introvert.
He's just like kind of ashut-in introvert.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
He was?

Speaker 1 (39:05):
He was Exactly, he was an introvert.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
He's going to the library when he meets Buffy to
get a book he wants to go andread.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
He's got a taste of adventure,though Taste of adventure is all
over after that.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
I also love how there's that scene where you
have the antique watch and thenXander has his like goofy Tweety
Bird watch and there'sdefinitely like a lot of
jealousy runs through thisepisode in terms of the themes
of the episode and sounds likeeven offstage when David was
like hey, how come you get thefirst onscreen?

Speaker 1 (39:37):
kiss like even offstage, when David was like
hey how come you get the firstonscreen kiss.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
So do you remember with the scene that you were
doing in the hallway with Xanderand the watches and all that
stuff?
Is there anything that youremember particularly about that
scene, because it played sowell?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I just remember and I got goosebumps thinking about
it I just remember how greatNicky was because he would do
one take and then he would trysomething different.
How great Nicky was because hewould do one take and then he
would try something different.
He was so in the moment andknew that character like the
back of his hand.
It was sort of like Nick, youknow, and sort of insecure and
all over the place.
But Heart of Gold Nick playedthat so well and I remember us

(40:14):
laughing and having fun with itbecause it was you know it was.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
How much of your stuff did you shoot on location
and how much were you at theStewart street sound stages?

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Most of it was at Stewart street.
I do remember going to Buffy'shouse, I do remember the high
school, but I think after that,I think most of it.
If it was, you know, I think Iprobably shot all eight days.
You know, seven out of theeight we were maybe four or five
.
Five of them was it was on thestages and I think a lot of that
was obviously intent to becauseit was a new show and it didn't

(40:47):
go long.
The hours were already long.
So too many company moves, yes,I think that would have really,
you know, killed them and wedid.
We had some 20 hour days onthat, on that episode.
And I remember the band, I, youknow the band was a big, turned
into a big band because I, I, Ihave a song in my head, the
dancing and the band was thereand they turned into a pretty

(41:08):
big, which has happened to meseveral times on different shows
yeah this band.
And then the band blows up and,and it's a cool band and I and I
can still.
I can still hear the like thefour chords that, and and it's a
cool band and I and I can still.
I can still hear the like thefour chords that kept going.
And then we stopped and keepgoing, we dance.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Have it over, and over and over.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah, over and over.
Oh, my God, I'm so sick of thissong.
But then the song was a big.
It was a big song, I mean theyreally did it right.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
You also were mentioning something earlier.
You've made me think of so manydifferent things and one of the
things when you were bringingup the fact that the show wasn't
on the air yet.
It's such a different thingwhen you go into audition for
either a guest star, a recurring, even a series regular,
although with a series regularpart you generally have a script
depending on where you are inyour career.
But it's still different thanwhen a show's on the air and

(41:54):
you've seen it.
So you know the tone, you knowthe world, you know what you're,
the universe that you'restepping into and and it's very
different going in blindly andtrying to guess to a certain
degree and then obviously getfeedback in terms of that.
So you had that in spades on onBuffy.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Absolutely I had, because obviously David great
director too and was still atthe time he was young, you know,
and and I was only on for oneepisode, but I was a tool to
kind of exactly for jealousy andfor this and that and to
introduce absolutely you seteverything in motion in terms of
her relationship with angel.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Like you are the pivotal point of all of that.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, exactly right and to show even the jealousy,
with charisma and, and you know,and oh well, who's this guy now
?
And and there was so thedynamic, and again with with
nick too, and to show his kindof he was, owen was used as a
very nice tool to enhance which,again, that's what you hope to
do, right, you hope to come inand triage, have a carve, a

(42:52):
performance that you think.
Again I I had no idea if myperformance was going to be any
good or not.
Again, I was so naive.
It was like well, I think it'sgood, they're saying it's good,
so it's gonna be good, you knowand I remember asking sarah's.
I said she goes yeah, you'regreat, and allison too.
Who's a pro?
And I mean everybody was sonice and welcoming and also
knowing, and I was admittinglike I don't really know what

(43:15):
i'm'm doing.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Don't you think that when you work with a creator,
showrunner or director that hasa really clear vision, it makes
your job so much easier becauseyou know the parameters?
Because when you're guessingsort of and they're guessing and
they're not clear, you're allmore floundering.
Do you find that Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (43:34):
I love especially younger.
In my career I prided myself onbeing sort of a very directable
actor.
I was coming on and I wantedfeedback.
I wanted, okay, did this, didthis look good, or do you think
this or that?
And then, and then you get alittle older and then you get on
your own shows and don valsario, who's big, big, you know,

(43:55):
cigar smoking man, and Iremember asking Don, I was, you
know, I was shooting the pilotand I get this great scene with
Joe Montani and I'm ripping offall these things and I think you
know I'm the cock of the walk,I know I crushed the scene.
We break for lunch and I goover there to Don.
I go, don, is that pretty good?
Or you know, do you want to seeanything else?
And he kind of saw it like smugkid.

(44:16):
He's like listen, if I don'tlike something, I'll tell you so
do you have a favorite momentfrom the show yourself?
probably what we talked aboutthat hall scene with with nikki
and sarah, and it was so muchfun.
You know we're acting, we'redoing this tv show and he was so

(44:38):
funny and the way that Ireacted, the way sarah it was
just, it was probably that andthen some of the stunt stuff
which was fun fighting, and thestuff that I got.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, I got to do some of that.
I was gonna ask how did you dothat, how did you do some of
this?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
yeah, it was mainly sarah, obviously sarah stunt,
who's wonderful, and she wouldjust tell me how to go here, it
was Sophia, sophia Crawford,she's brilliant, brilliant, and
so she would teach me, shetaught me, and then I think they
, you know they did.
There was a few things thatwere they couldn't use me, but
but for most of it, you know,and I cause, I've tried again,
something I try to take pride in.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
How did you navigate?
You know what you were talkingabout before with Owen that he
starts out as a much moreintroverted, deep thinking,
bookish, deep character and then, when he has this experience,
it makes him feel so alive andhe taps into this thrill seeker,
adrenaline junkie part ofhimself.
How did you navigate?

Speaker 1 (45:40):
that arc, to find that so that you could get to
that place by the end.
It's piqued his interest.
Well, again, it was sowell-written.
I think as actors, especiallywhen you're younger and you're
auditioning, that sort ofadrenaline rush is every time.
You walk in the room, right,and you're like, oh my God, I
had been pumped so full ofadrenaline.
You know, especially in some ofmy early editions, that you know
I was really close to JerryMaguire playing Cush and meeting

(46:02):
Cameron Crowe, and I just kindof like came in and vomited all
over the room for the first like15 minutes and then we finally
got down to playing, you know,cush and Cush Lash and for Jerry
Maguire and I'm like, oh, I'mgoing to meet Tom Cruise.
I think I kind of used a lot ofthat all right well, using sort
of that in my real life andmimicking that, right, I mean,

(46:22):
it's it.
Yeah, that was pretty easy.
And then the way it was, thewriting was so good that and
that's why I I've never been agambler, because I was telling
my wife because I go to lasvegas and I sit down at
blackjack or I sit down at pokerand I'm like, oh my god, this
feels like an audition.
I down at poker and I'm like,oh my God, this feels like an
audition.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
I'm like nervous and I'm like my life is a gamble,
right?
No, you do, it is.
We live a certain sort of gypsylife.
Obviously, we're probably notcut out for a nine to five.
You know some of the anxietyand pressure and whatever.
We obviously like to someextent, or we wouldn't go go

(46:59):
onto a set with 300 people anddo a crazy emotional scene or
whatever but I, I'm with you inmy real life.
I'm like no, I like to do thatprofessionally.
I like to really go to certainplaces that I don't need to do
in my own, my own tranquil life.
Let's hope.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, exactly, and I was younger into my late
thirties before I had my son.
I didn't have much balance.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
We were just talking about that with Julie Benz, one
of the other actors on the show.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I did a pilot with Julie and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Oh, julie's amazing.
Yeah, so we were talking aboutthat how we sort of had only
career on the brain for such along period and now having more
balance in your life for me myhusband's like the best thing
that ever happened in my lifeand so.
But I didn't have that.
It was all like such kind ofthat was only my life really.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Right, yeah, no, the same thing.
And yeah, no, my wife is.
The sun sets with my wife.
I mean, I love her and she'severything for me.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
If you had to guess where Owen is now, if Owen was
really out there living, wherewould you see Owen now?

Speaker 1 (47:58):
See, I see Owen as I think that he did get that
adrenaline kick, but I thinkthat his love of literature I
see him as a college professorsomewhere.
I think he may have had acouple crazy fraternity nights
maybe in college, but then Ithink Owen was just a serious
enough kid that and smart enoughthat he's a professor at Yale
or married Somewhere inConnecticut, I feel Connecticut.

(48:20):
Connecticut yeah right, yeah,upstate Connecticut, and he's
doing just fine, and he's maybecoaching the baseball team too,
or something like that, and hisdaughter maybe.
He's in theater and he'swell-to-do for himself.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
That's awesome.
Why do you think Buffy has suchlegs with the audience?

Speaker 1 (48:40):
So it's a great show to binge the characters you know
, they expand and they're goingthrough all these different
things.
And I think, also teenagers.
My stepdaughter watched it acouple years ago.
She's 15.
She watched it at 13.
Loved it.
They relate Again.
You have sort of all the highschool personalities and kids

(49:00):
are, so they need that and Ithink it's it's also it's fast,
still fast.
So with kids these days youneed it to be pretty quick
moving and so I think for allthose reasons it's got legs.
Parents you know there werekids that watched it.
Now their kids are watching ityes what's your stepdaughter say
?
when she got to your episode,she like well, she no, I don't

(49:22):
think she knew.
And she was like oh my gosh,chris, you're on, chris, she
kind of forgets sometimes what Ido.
Right, because?

Speaker 2 (49:33):
she has such a different relationship to you so
it sounds like 2008 was a verychallenging time.
You say that your firstmarriage was rocky.
You weren't working at thatjuncture, and then you were
diagnosed with a brain tumor,and so can you talk about your
book Trying to Walk Like a man,the Chris Wheel playbook.

(49:53):
The synopsis says that you hadbrain fluid leak from your nose,
that you had brain surgery,that you nearly died and that
you had to learn how to walkagain.
Can you fill us in about thebook and where people can get it
, and also what you reallylearned from all the adversity
that you went through it?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
was a hard time in my life.
My son was just born uh, he wasborn on november 29th and and
and I had a ringing in my ears.
I thought it was a ringing inmy ears.
It was.
When it turns out to ringing inyour ears, usually 10 hearing
loss.
It was, or it's, hearing loss.
When you hear a ring.
You go to a loud concert, right.
You come home you hear thathigh ringing.

(50:32):
Well, that's hearing loss,right.
So so in the summer of 07, Ihad that.
I went in my doctor said that'sprobably loss, right.
So in the summer of 2007, I hadthat I went in my doctor said
that's probably nothing.
You're listening to yourWalkman, it's too loud, just
come back.
So I did.
I waited for another three orfour months.
I went back and they were likeyou know what, let's give you a
hearing test.
Weird, you have 10% hearingloss in one ear.
Yeah let's get an MRI CAT scan.

(50:54):
Probably nothing.
So I was like all right, so Igot the MRI and CAT scan.
Right before Christmas I calledbecause I said hey, did you get
my MRI, my CAT scan back?
And they were like, oh yeah,it's right here, we'll call you
right back, or something likethat, and then I was like, okay,
great, and an hour goes by andthey call me right back and my
wife is overhearing at the time,and at the time and they were
like, oh, you know what, weactually kind of lost that.

(51:17):
But could you come in afterChristmas?

Speaker 2 (51:19):
And I was like oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
Wait, they lost it.
Well, they said they misplacedit, they weren't sure, but well,
they didn't lose it.
Okay they just didn't want tosay it over the phone.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Okay, oh my God.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
It was literally like December 23rd right.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
And so, like december 23rd, right right and and so
I'm like, well, all right, yeah,shoot, okay.
Yeah, I'll come in afterchristmas.
I get off the phone.
My wife's like you, idiot,that's bad, it's bad.
I'm like it's bad.
Why is it bad?
wow so going on.
The 26th doctor says you havethis sort of this.
It wasn't really well known atthe time.
It's called an acoustic neuroma.
It's a benign brain tumor.

(51:57):
It sets in the brain and thebrain nerves of the facial nerve
which if you hit that you're astroke victim.
Um, if you nick that, it's onthe audio nerve, the facial
nerve and the balance nerve ohmy gosh, both sides.
Yeah, important stuff rightright back in here and right the
surface of the brain it's.
It was, you know, benign, buteventually it will kill you.

(52:19):
If I take in brain surgery, myson was just born.
He's a month old.
My wife and I my wife hadpostpartum and it was.
It was just not not a great,not a great deal, and so I, uh,
uh, I took it all in and spentthe next seven, eight months
researching radiation.
You can either do gamma knife,cyber knife there's various

(52:41):
radiations.
The problem with that is thatif they miss it can come back
cancerous, malignant and killyou in a year or so.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Oh my God, a lot of that there's no evasive surgery.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
It's a ray right, it's a laser.
I chose a full right sidecraniotomy where basically I
have a scar from here it goes upshave that.
So they basically take off sideof your head and they go in.
They gave me a 50% chance ofkeeping my hearing, which I had
90% hearing, so I had very goodhearing.

(53:11):
They gave me a 50-50 chance ofthat.
Unfortunately, it spasmed.
The nerve cell spasmed on theway out.
They had to get to it bycutting my nerve, cutting my
balance nerve.
So cut the balance nerve.
They removed it was basicallythe size of a pea.
It was very small at the time.
So that's why my rehab wascatastrophic.
Really, because I was so highfunctioning.

(53:34):
A lot of people wait and waitand wait until it gets bigger.
Then your brain actually brainactually assimilates better,
right, and you lose more hearing.
Well, I went from 90 to zero.
Not only 90 to zero.
I had, uh, I have a horrible umtinnitus, tinnitus, oh yeah,
awesome, constant, forever.
It's always, always been theresince post post-op.
So I'm stone deaf.
They sever the balance nerve.

(53:55):
I'm in icu for four days wherethey nothing, it's just quiet.
They wear these black thingsand because your brain is
basically rebooting and so whenyou wake up, my eyeballs are all
over the place.
I think I described it in thebook as, uh, basically being on
a roller coaster in space.
So you're kind of it's, it'soff the place for several days
and you're you're just trying.
Your brain equilibrium is justall over the place for several

(54:16):
days and you're just trying yourbrain.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
The equilibrium is just all over the place Because
eventually, eventually, Did itmake you nauseous too, because
of all the Complete nausea?
Yeah, I would think so, yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
I got out and I was trying to make some jokes, I'm
throwing up and it was not greatand I remember just telling my
dad I need everybody out andthen they put down.
After that, on day five, I getdown to the recovery.
You know you want to go home,I've been.
You know you want you're inhospitals.
They had a great neuro wing,but then I'm in recovery.

(54:45):
They're the house Institute,which is a hearing Institute, to
be released.
You need to be able to go tothe bathroom, right, and that's
kind of like.
And so I had to try to get toand I would try crawling, you
know, the first few days.
So I'd been there seven, eightdays and then my wife was like
my nose was dripping a littlebit.
I was like, oh, it's just, it'sjust maybe a little cold or it

(55:06):
was clear liquid.
So another thing that canhappen is is they, once they put
you back together, they patchfrom fat from my stomach and
they put it here.
Well, that patch didn't seal sobrain from my stomach and they
put it here.
Well, that patch didn't seal sobrain was licking out of my
nose, um, so then they were likeall right, well, my
neurosurgeon was gone.
He was in new orleans onsomething, and so I got another

(55:27):
guy and they were like well, wehave to to stop this.
We have to tap your spine anddrain the fluid down to a
certain level.
So you're, so it can heal, itcan dry.
Right, that fluid is coming upand it'll kill you if it needs
to yeah so that.
So then they put me down in theicu in st vincent's, which is in
koreatown, downtown los angeles.
So then I'm in an icu in stvincent's for another cloudy

(55:50):
seven, eight days.
And I remember, I just rememberthe first time I went down
there and my parents had gonehome for the night and the
nurses were wonderful.
Obviously, you know, nurses runhospitals, but one was a
Spanish speaking nurse, theother was a Korean speaking
nurse and they were shiftshifting and they didn't know
what was going on.
They had a level literally onmy.
They were trying it's kind of anew exploratory thing they were

(56:10):
doing for me and they'retalking, and I know that they're
not.
And I said I need a, a red.
They gave me, brought me aphone on a thing, a red phone,
and I called my mom.
I said I need somebody downhere, I think.
And I looked at right.
When I looked at the, there wasa cross on the wall, saint
vincent's, and I looked at thecross, my son was one month old.
I said I gotta get out of here.
I can't die, I can't, I can't,I can't die here.

(56:30):
I've got a, I've got a onemonth old son.
So, um, so yeah, my mom camedown and then my dad came and I
had an advocate for the rest ofthe days.
Several days I was there, gotout and again that's when they
severed the balance and so I didhave a palsy because they
irritated the nerve.
So for three or four monthsthis side of my face didn't work

(56:52):
.
Um, you know, actually who has,who had the exact same thing as
mark ruffalo mark yes, yes, Iactually knew that.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I didn't realize it was the same thing that you've
had, but I didn't know.
He had brain surgery, yeah, andI knew that he had, yeah yeah,
and he was fortunate.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
You know he took a year off and they told me.
They said you need to take atleast a year off, but I have a
kid and I money I can't so Itook six and I remember started.
I started, I started walking.
From the first day I got frommy bed to the bathroom.
The next day I got from my bedto this door outside my bathroom
.
The next day I got to the frontdoor.
The next day I got to thedriveway.
The day after that I got to the.

(57:27):
So finally, after two or threemonths I was actually sort of
running, but I was running intoposts, I was running into things
, I was hitting things and stillto this day, when sound comes,
it's very difficult for me toknow where the sound is coming
from.
And I always go here, I alwaysgo to the right, because that's
where I'm deaf.
So my right side, so if I can'thear things, she's a christian,

(57:48):
she'll tap me or this or thatand she's wonderful.
But yeah, so I actually read.
For I remember I shouldn't havebeen auditioning.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I wasn't no.
I was gonna say not no, goshyou know, and then I did.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
Actually I did six months of the day.
I did another christmas moviebecause it was an offer and I
did it with christine taylor,who was wonderful and was uh,
with a morgan shepherd who was awonderful guy I played and
christine was amazing and I toldchristine, I told the director,
I said, listen, guys, so Iwould shoot a scene, I would go
back and lie down, shoot anotherscene, go back and lie down.

(58:30):
And so we got through it.
Christine was still a greatfriend and and then I just
started slowly piecing stuffback together.
But, as you know, it's so hardand then to be out really a year
, year and a half two years whenyou're here, and then to try to
build back up.
And I don't regret any of that,I don't.
I mean, obviously they got thetumor and it made me such a
better person.
I'd never really been sickbefore.

(58:51):
You know, I'm looking at you,you're a specimen.
I'm only seeing you from thechest up and I said, oh, this
guy's a specimen.
So like, have that strippedaway from you.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, got to be devastating.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah, it really did a number on me.
You know, my marriage obviouslydidn't survive for many reasons
I don't know that.
That was certainly one of thembecause I certainly was career
first a lot of the time.
You know, at that age and and,and, fortunately, that's why,
obviously the second time aroundI've learned that that's not
the way to go.
But we get along great and wehave again, we, we pair it well

(59:25):
together with my son and, and heand he knows, I mean, you know
again, it's, it's, it's thatadversity, you know, and of
course the title is aSpringsteen song I love.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
I was going to ask you about that, that's what the
title.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
I was driving my car one day and I was listening to
trying to walk like a man and Iwas like that's because again?
And my mother always said,christopher, you do walk like a
man, you don't have to try.
And I said, well, but sometimeswhen things happen, you have to
try to right.
So how cathartic was it to putthat down on paper.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
But also to inspire other people in terms of like,
how much of a warrior and whatyou went through and what we
take for granted, you know, andto put that into a book so that
other people can learn from that.
That's really powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
And what do they say Get knocked down six, get up
seven.
It is sort of a mantra.
And I also say you know, neverput your, because they don't
know if they've attributed thatto this, but acoustic neuromas
have gone way up because of, Ithink, people put their cell
phone to their ears.
I haven't put my cell phone.
Oh, I only have one now.
So I've, since the surgery,I've never put my cell phone to
my ear.
Oh, wow, I didn't know thatthis is gives off radio waves,

(01:00:25):
and waves that you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Oh, that you're putting directly into your yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
I'll still use an earbud to listen to music or
something like that, but I'llnever put my phone in my ear
again.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
So phone in my ear again.
So thank you for sharing allthat.
And where can people get yourbook?
I?

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
think it's still on Amazon it is on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's definitely there , yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Oh great, yeah.
So I think that's where it isand, yeah, go buy it.
I don't know if I get a dime ora nickel or whatever, but books
are still good Read books.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
So we already shared stories about these things and
we wanted to hear about yours.
The central metaphor of Buffyis high school as hell.
Do you have any high school ashell stories or any school?
It doesn't have to be highschool, but any period of school
being hell for you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Well, I think I think high school gosh, I think high
school for for almost for almosteveryone, right?
I mean, there's some peoplethat you know, the, the, the
real popular kids.
I think that high school wastheir best three or four years
of their life and, depending.
I was in a junior high, so Ionly had three years of high
school, but I certainly was notone of those.
I was sort of kind of in thatgray middle of.

(01:01:27):
I wasn't unliked, I wasn'treally liked, but I certainly
was trying to fit in with peopleand you know I had my crew.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
So you mentioned, mentioned that period of time.
Have there been other times inyour life that you felt like an
outsider trying to fit in?

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Wow, well, I think, yeah, I think, obviously.
I think when you with this inthe entertainment business,
right, you're always especiallywhen I started, and then I think
also after my brain surgery, Iwas at best 90% and I knew it,
and I know I'm deaf, am I righthere?
And balance is not great andI'm trying to kind of do this
thing that I used to be so goodat and I was kind of here.
You feel on the outside all thetime and I think even now I

(01:02:08):
think I feel like a little bitof an outsider now.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
So what is the best date you've ever had and the
worst date you've ever had Sinceyou're?
You're going on a first dateyour wide spectrum best, all
right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Well, the best date I've ever had, obviously and
it's the truth was the firstdate with my wife same same for
us, with our perspectives.
Yeah and we met on a dating app.
We met on tinder and oh my gosh, that's amazing, wow, and I was
.
I was shooting something at thetime and I and she she turned me
, turned me down.
She didn't turn me down, butshe rescheduled a couple of
times and she thought she waskind of like she.

(01:02:41):
She found out who I was and ofcourse I didn't cause she at the
time was working at Apple, youknow.
So she knew what she was like.
I'm not going to.
I'm not going to go like David.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Did she data mine you ?

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
She, she, she just listen.
Keep the Manhattans going Allright, because my last dates
have been brutal, so I just keepthem on a conveyor belt and she
walks in and she sits down andliterally from the first moment

(01:03:10):
I was like this woman is amazing.
I stopped the conveyor belt ofManhattans.
I think I kissed her in thefirst three or four minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
I just kind of reached over.
She goes yeah, it was a sloppykiss, it wasn't very great, but
we got along and she thought Iwas going to be a complete idiot
.
But she, because my Tinderprofile was misspelled and it
was just a mess because I hadprobably having a few Manhattans
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
So she was surprised like oh wait, you're actually
smart.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
I'm going to tell him .
He's going to know that I'm amom, I've got two kids and I was
like oh, I'm a dad, my son'sfour.
She was like oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Here's the story, yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
I went to college at the University of Arizona.
I said, oh, I went to college.
I went to college, wow, what alie.
Oh my gosh, yeah, you got thisidiot guy and so we just kept
talking.
And she's this beautiful,strong woman and that I've
literally I fall in love withmore every day, and it's been 10
years, I think.

(01:04:09):
Yeah not nine yeah yeah, sothat's that's gotta be like.
Obviously that's my my bestfirst date.
Anyone can kind of go.
I actually went on a date withthis gal.
It was just terrible.
But then I thought I wastalking to her Say her name was
Julie and I thought I wastalking to another Julie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
And it was her again.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
So I set up another date with this other girl.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Oh no, I really didn't like her right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
It was at a restaurant in Beverly Hills, but
it's where you can kind of walkin one way and you can go
around and you can walk out theother way.
And I walked in and I saw thegirl that I had a horrible first
date and I couldn't believe.
I didn't even believe that shewould want to see me again.
I mean it was terrible.
I don't remember why it was sobad, but it's really bad.

(01:05:02):
So this is the longest itwasn't doesn't sound great, but
she was sitting and I kind oflike walked by her and walked
into the bathroom and thenwalked out the other side and
left so that's got to be theworst.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I mean, oh my gosh oh my god, I think that takes the
prize.
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
You got to cut your losses at that point Cut your
losses.
I was like there's no way I'msitting here again.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah, and I screwed up.
There's no nice way out of that, right?
Could you let her know on theapp, could you let her know Like
, or are you just?

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
I think I did.
I think, yeah, I got.
It was not.
Yeah, no, you did the rightthing.
You know what I mean.
This was not?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
yeah Well, this has been absolutely amazing.
Is there anything that wehaven't asked you, that you
wanted to talk about and that weshould ask you before we all go
back to our respective lives?

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
There's the show that I finished called Going Home.
It's on a great American, pureflicks.
It's a small streamer.
It's two seasons.
Charisma's in the first season.
It's not a laugh fest.
It's all about actually a woman, cynthia gary, who runs a
hospice home.
Um, but I didn't really knowanything about hospice until,
unfortunately, until this lastyear where my dad was in hospice

(01:06:13):
.
Then my mom was in hospice.
My mom was in a similar hospicehome for the last four days of
her life, and so it's it's areally touching little show.
It's it's and it's got a reallynice cast and shoots up in
eastern Washington, which I know.
The producers, dan Merchant,rich Cowan, dan's the showrunner
and heck of a guy and heck of awriter.
And for people that are losingpeople, if you have sick parents

(01:06:35):
, if you have sick relativesthat are in hospice, it's kind
of.
It's a loving show in that way.
And in the first seasoncharisma's dying and I'm her
husband and I've got kids andshe dies at the end.
And then the second season isall about sort of brief share
and and and coming out of thatwith kids and family and it
sounds beautiful.
That's great yeah, it's a really, it's a really nice show and it

(01:06:56):
was on.
Yeah, so great american trueflicks.
Oh, it sounds beautiful.
We've been talking for hoursand it feels like 10 minutes and
thank you so much for sharingyour time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
I know that you have a lot that you're dealing with
right now, and so we reallyappreciate it, and it's just
been a blast getting to hang outwith you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
It's been great.
Thank you both.
Yeah, it's been a nice, as Iwas telling my wife when I went
in and got some more iced tea.
It's been a nice diversion fromlife for a little bit.
Wonderful questions, a bit ofmemory lane, you know, which is
always fun.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
See you next week, when we'll do it again.
Do it again and, mostimportantly, until next time, go
out and slay it.

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Interview with The Date - Owen / Never Kill a Boy

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Interview with The Date - Owen / Never Kill a Boy