April 2, 2025 • 36 mins
In this episode of Cruise Pioneers, host Birgit Liodden is joined by Anshul Tuteja, VP of Energy Strategy and Decarbonisation at Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings. With over 20 years of maritime experience—including leading global fleet optimisation and decarbonisation at Royal Caribbean Group—Anshul is at the forefront of the cruise industry’s green transition.
Together, they explore the path to a net-zero cruise industry by 2050, diving into company and industry-wide sustainability strategies. From energy efficiency and vessel optimisation to future fuels and hybrid technologies, Anshul shares insights on how the cruise sector is evolving toward a cleaner, waste-free, and nature-friendly future.
The conversation also highlights the power of collaboration with startups and innovators, unlocking mutually beneficial solutions to accelerate the journey to net zero. Anshul offers valuable advice for startups looking to enter the cruise industry and play a role in shaping its sustainable future.
Tune in for a forward-thinking discussion on the technologies, strategies, and partnerships driving the next era of sustainable cruising.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Birgit Liodden (00:01):
Welcome to the Cruise Pioneers podcast by
tool hosted on Seatrade Cruise Talks
Podcasts.
Hello, I'm Birgit Leodon, Sustainability Ambassador
of Seatrade Trade and founder of the Ocean Opportunity Lab.
In this new series we will dive into the pioneering
initiatives of cruise lines and entrepreneurs who
(00:22):
move and change the cruise industry. We focus on
real life frontrunner initiatives and power
couples enabling crews to move
from pollution to solution. Get on board our
shared expedition as we get behind the scenes
and explore how owners, founders and
top executives move from vision to
deployment. With me today from Miami is
(00:44):
Anshul, Vice President, Energy
Strategy and Decarbonization at Norwegian
Cruise Line Holdings. Anshul is a maritime
executive with more than 20 years of experience in
strategic leadership and technical roles,
scaling sustainable business solutions and
creating a multidimensional framework to accelerate
innovation and change. Anshul is
(01:07):
celebrated for new ways of thinking, challenging old
ideas and building mutually benefiting
partnerships. And before ncl, he
spirited the Global Fleet Optimization and
Decarbonization strategy as an
Associate Vice President with Royal Cribbing
Group where he led their energy asset and programme
management for all of the five cruise brands under
(01:29):
the group's umbrella. Anshul, it's so nice to
have you in the studio with us today.
>> Anshul (01:34):
Thank you very much Birket and I must commend this brilliant
initiative that you've started within the maritime industry.
So kudos to that and thank you very much. I feel privileged to be
part of.
>> Birgit Liodden (01:44):
This podcast series and we are so
excited to get to dive into
your very dedicated background
and also some quite cool and open
ideas. Moving through this episode, I
wanted to make this a little bit personal while also
checking in on the NCL targets and
starting by introducing the
(02:07):
company and the pioneer commitment. Can
you share a bit with us about NCL's
key targets but also let
us in on your own personal commitment
as a cruise pioneer with high level targets
towards a clean, waste free,
nature friendly cruise industry building the
(02:27):
competitive edge for a future proof industry
onwards.
>> Anshul (02:31):
Absolutely. So NCLH
Norwegian Cruise line Holding has three main brands,
Norwegian Cruise Lines, Oceania and Region 7 Seatrade
Cruises. And we have this programme, the
environmental programme called Sail and Sustain.
And basically the fundamental of Sail and Sustain programme
is to ensure that we deliver the
vacations to all our guests, but in a responsible
(02:53):
way. obviously as you can imagine, the sale and sustain
programme encompasses a lot of aspects of
sustainability, but from a decarbonization
perspective, which we all are
constantly and relentlessly moving towards,
is to have a net zero as many of the companies
around the world by 2050. And
we have intermediate milestones which are very well
(03:15):
synchronised with the IMO targets. aiming
for a 10% reduction in intensity by
2026, then aiming for 25%
intensity reduction by 2030 and then eventually
going to net zero by 2050. So that's from the
NCL edge side. and the programme that we have,
the sale and sustain programme from my side. I think
(03:36):
I've now been in this industry for now more than 20
years as you pleasantly introduced me.
And obviously I've ah, been on both the shipboard side
as well as on the shore side. And my
personal aim is that how can we challenge the
status quo within the industry and have some
bold visionary ideas to make this
industry really kind of
(03:58):
achieve all the goals and targets
that we have in terms of decarbonization and broader
sustainability aspects. So I think over the last 10
years that I've been, or actually 10 plus years that I've been here on the
shore side, I've been pushing the
boundaries and targets that how do we
enhance the energy efficiency on our fleet and how do
we cut the energy waste? Because I believe
(04:21):
enhancing the energy efficiency is the first
fuel towards the transitions of the bigger goals and
targets that we have. And obviously now with all the
regulatory environment that is changing, we
obviously need to think big, we need to obviously
achieve those incremental improvements but also aim for
those radical improvements that the industry is
very much in need of if you compare ourselves
(04:43):
to the aviation and the automobile industry.
So again, challenging the status quo, thinking
big, thinking bold, leveraging data
and machine learning and AI into the
shipping industry and achieving ultimately the
decarbonization and net zero goals by 2050.
>> Birgit Liodden (05:00):
A great starting point for the next question
that I prepared for you Anshul. I mean to
achieve this kind of change
from the inside, but also looking towards other
industries, I would like to dive in with
you a little bit more about the potentials,
the untapped potentials of power coupling,
(05:20):
large corporate players like yourself and
the world of startups and smaller innovators.
And I want to hear a bit about your
perspectives, you know, the optimal dynamics
of how we can work with this power coupling.
Because obviously you as a group have
amazing resources, great opportunities
(05:41):
to make change and then there are also some
capabilities that typically are stronger
with small and nimble startups
and brand new companies. So can you
share with me what you consider yourself as
kind of those optimal cases of power coupling
and what can you bring to the table. And
what is it that you need from small
(06:03):
stakeholders?
>> Anshul (06:04):
Well that's a very interesting terminology called
power coupling. And I think in any couple
format you need to identify the mutual win,
the mutually benefiting relationship between the two partners
or multiple partners, as you engage in that
process. I think no single entity, no
single company, no single country, can
(06:25):
achieve the kind of challenges
on its own. I think especially when it comes to decarbonization
of the industry, especially for a very hard to wage sector
like shipping, it's going to be very difficult for any
single company to find all the solutions by itself.
So certainly we need to partner. Collaboration is the
key, communication is the key. But obviously
(06:45):
the industry is also very limited. Right. It's a very
small industry compared to the other
sectors which are, you know, outside our kind of
domain of maritime, what we call as maritime.
I certainly believe that, you know, obviously we are
making all these incremental improvements with our partners but
I certainly believe there is a lot of potential
outside the industry. There are a lot of ideas
(07:07):
that we can cross pollinate and bring some of those
ideas within our industry. Now you
asked me about the power coupling and what is the most
optimal dynamic. I think, you know, we must
realise as a, as an industry that you
know, we have to also go out and communicate
with these, you know, small startups where we have to make
them understand that what are the challenges as
(07:30):
an industry we are facing. They may have a brilliant idea
and they may even have a solution which is probably working on
land based solutions but they may not have an idea that
how to kind of have an application on board a vessel
and sometimes I refer to as the modernization
of the great idea that is already being levied
on the land based solution. similarly
(07:50):
on the startup side, obviously they need to also
show an intent. They also need to be ready
to be bold and be part of this challenge
to associate themselves with the maritime industry. So
I think in a sense both the parties need to
come together. We need to obviously share all our challenges and
opportunities. They need to learn from us and they need to
(08:10):
be ready, ready enough to be
agile and move quickly enough to
achieve some of these successes together.
>> Birgit Liodden (08:18):
And how easy is it for a startup to get in
touch with you guys? I mean you're among
the four largest groups in this
field.
>> Anshul (08:27):
Yeah, that's a good question. And oftentimes it's not that
easy because obviously there are many players that you
have to deal with at the same point in time.
But I think There are a lot of incubators, like I believe you
have an incubator that you're running on your side, a lot of incubators that
are coming up and they have obviously their connections
into the big maritime companies. So I would suggest
(08:48):
like any startup who's out there obviously, you know, try
to reach out directly, indirectly. There are many platforms,
many forums now which are available and
eventually I think that somehow that
ice has to be broken, in order to connect all the
parties. But you're right, I think Birkhead, in a
broader sense it's sometimes easier said than done.
But I certainly believe if you really believe in
(09:11):
your technology and mind you, I'm like most of the maritime
companies are now even actively seeking to
be partners of such incubators because they know that's where
most of the talent is actually coming to. So
obviously it's sometimes very difficult to identify a needle in a
haystack and neither we're not going to be going
out and going to every single startup. But I
(09:31):
think there are many, numerous platforms and incubators
which are available as of today where some of these
startups or many of these startups can associate
themselves and somehow if the technology
has a value proposition, will certainly bubble
up to the maritime company
or an entity for sure.
>> Birgit Liodden (09:50):
M Of course for these
startups it's so important to know
where are the pain points, where are the issues that
the big corporates needs their help of
solving. I wanted to also tune
in and hear from you if you can share a bit
about NCL's work so far, where
(10:10):
you are now on your path towards
reaching these high level ambitions. Where is
it that you are, you know, on track or ahead of the group's
target? Or are there any specific
areas where you have experienced some, challenging
bottlenecks or barriers that you really
would see as great opportunities
(10:31):
for startups to come in
with new alternative solutions?
>> Anshul (10:36):
Yeah, so obviously as I mentioned early on
that sustainability is a very broad topic for
a cruise vessel in particular because you're dealing
with all the way from air kind of how do you
handle your air emissions, how do you handle your waste
emissions, your wastewater emissions, your grey water
emissions, your wet and dry waste, et
cetera, et cetera. So it's a very broad category. Now
(10:58):
obviously what I'm focusing
on is on the decarbonization side. Right. And,
and as I mentioned early on that energy
efficiency is our first fuel towards our
transition because all these big goals that we have to
achieve are only possible through future low
carbon alternatives. Obviously you can keep
enhancing the energy efficiency of our fleet, but you're not going
(11:21):
to hit those targets till the time you
basically incorporate all these new future
fuels and future technologies. So I think the
industry, or the sector, cruising sector in particular
is slowly but surely ushering into an
era of hybridization. We're going to see multi fuels,
across different sectors, we're going to see different technologies and so on and
so forth. I think in short term, in short to medium
(11:43):
term, our focus now is on
technologies that enhance our
energy efficiency and cut our energy base. So there's a lot of
potential, a lot of solutions out there which
are working very well on a land based solutions or land
based applications which can be, you
know, somewhat brought into the
maritime application. There are already many, but there are many
(12:06):
more new innovative ideas that are coming and that
could, and that's not just purely from a hardware perspective, it could also
be from a software, from a data and digitalization
perspective, machine learning, AI and all those
different elements. Right. If you ask me about the bottlenecks,
I think the bottlenecks are again the
fuels, right now all the regulations,
(12:26):
the technology, the supply, they're not
synchronised. The regulations are somewhat 10 steps
ahead of what is available right now.
I think now with all these increasing
regulations in the taxonomy, there's a lot of money that is
being collected within Europe and elsewhere around the world
and we hope to see some of that coming also
through the imo, very soon. The
(12:49):
key challenge here now is that how do we effectively
use that, all that money, all that revenue
that we're going to be collecting through the allocation or
auctioning of those revenues that
how do these startups and organisations
effectively leverage all that money into
building that infrastructure for the future, especially in
(13:10):
terms of fuel. So the last mile connectivity
and building those fuels and getting it on board the vessel,
I think that's where our biggest bottleneck is right now. We may
be ready by 2028, 2029, but
the big challenge is where are we going to find all that
biofuel and the green fuels and the E fuels.
And you can very well imagine we are not the only ones competing for
(13:30):
those fuels. There are many other sectors like aviation, the
data centres and so on and so forth, who are going to be also
competing for those green electrons and green molecules.
so we are looking for some innovative supply chain ideas, innovative,
innovative solutions for producing these fuel at
scale and the availability at which we need
across the globe and also the price parity. I'm like as you
(13:50):
can imagine, these fuels right now they're trading at
somewhere between two to three times, two to actually eight times the
premium of the conventional fossil fuels.
So I think that's where the bigger bottleneck is.
How do you create the scale, the availability and the
pricing parity between the conventional fuels?
And how can these startups, or how can different
(14:10):
companies come together and come up with these
innovative ideas and solutions by which we
can somehow remove these bottlenecks
and have the industry embrace all
these future solutions to effectively
decarbonize over the longer run?
>> Birgit Liodden (14:26):
Couldn't, agree more. So that's one
hotspot for the innovators. It's basically the energy
supply chain. Then I wonder what ah, about
your existing vessels? Because of course we can't
new build our way through this.
We also have to do a lot of exciting and
challenging stuff on retrofits,
implementing new solutions
(14:49):
as part of this new toolbox
really. So which areas is it that
you are looking into where there could be great
opportunities for entrepreneurs? Would you look at energy
and circular solutions etc. on board
your existing vessels?
>> Anshul (15:05):
As you can imagine, we are still building ships and
again the average life of these vessels is somewhere between
30 to 35 years, which is roughly 10 to
15 years higher than a conventional
regular bulk carrier or container
ships, et cetera. So any ship that we are building today will
be very much in the water by 2050,
as you can imagine, unless the regulations kind of
(15:27):
snatch away the licence to operate in some point in time.
But I don't expect that to be happening because obviously there
will be some solutions which will be available for us to
retrofit, etc. Etc. So I think
in the short run, as I mentioned, that energy efficiency
also, or operations optimization
is one of our biggest focus areas. And when
(15:47):
we talk about operations optimization, we're looking at
for example route optimization, ensuring that. How
are we planning our itineraries in the most
effective way? How are we kind of ensuring that we're
having the most optimal port stay, Are we
departing on time, are we arriving on time and so
on and so forth. Looking at vessel operations
optimization, again, cruise vessels are
(16:10):
technologically very advanced vessels. There are so many
systems, so many solutions on board, from galleys
to laundries to H vac to energy
that is consumed on the electrical side. So again, there's
a lot of sensors, there's a lot of data that is collected on
board, billions of raw data tags that we collect.
and now obviously with the available bandwidth how we can
(16:30):
leverage that data, apply the analytics and derive
business intelligence out of it so that we can
effectively help our shipboard personnel
to pinpoint where exactly they need to act
upon. we also obviously look at the hull coating
strategy that how, what kind of technology do we put on
our ships? Because it's not just only about the paint that goes on
underwater, it's actually a technology. And obviously you
(16:52):
mentioned about circularity. We are obviously working with our paint
partners that how can we minimise the
impact of any particulates that
we put in these paints to obviously ensure
that we are having minimum coefficient of
friction, but also making sure that we're not leaving any
bad footprint into our oceans.
>> Birgit Liodden (17:12):
Right.
>> Anshul (17:12):
Because ultimately that enters into our food chain and you know,
all the kind of repercussions post that. So we're working on
circularity that every time a ship goes into a dry dock,
when we, when we kind of, you know, blast all that pain,
can we reuse that, you know, inorganic compound
into and make it a more of a circular economy when
it comes to the paint? obviously on
(17:33):
the energy retrofit sides, I mean like there's
a lot of potential over there from H vac to electricals
to hydrodynamics and we are constantly looking for new ideas
and believe me, it's just never ending. And we are
seeing so many solutions that are emerging now and we
expect to see them growing and growing. Obviously then there are
other aspects about shore power and
(17:53):
other aspects which obviously we do our level best to
make sure that our fleet is capable and ready
to be able to plug in. But I think right now the challenge is
more on the shore side that how many ports are
ready, with the shore power connection and more importantly
they're ready with the shore power connection. What's the energy mix
that they are delivering to our ships?
>> Birgit Liodden (18:13):
It's quite a complex, topic.
And it's also interesting because you
spent some time as an executive in residence
with Oceans Exchange, which is I think my
opinion, you know, probably the leading
innovation, competition and challenge in
our industry. And so you have also been diving
in little bit deeper with startups
(18:35):
than a lot of the other executives. And are
there any specific directions,
niches, type of solutions? If you look at
onboard carbon capture and storage,
wind, solar, et cetera, are there any kind
of favourite nerding areas that
you discovered, that you are following
especially that you think is really well fit for,
(18:57):
for the large cruise vessels?
>> Anshul (18:59):
Yeah, I think my time in Ocean Exchange has
been incredible. Because I think the kind of
knowledge and the, the brilliance that I've
come across has just been mind blowing. Like you know,
there's so much of talent out there. It's
unfortunate. As you rightly said in the very beginning of this
conversation, like how do we make, how do we power
(19:19):
couple you know, the industries which are
actively seeking for these solutions and all that
great talent that exists outside the industry or within
the industry to bring some of these ideas, to
nurture some of these ideas and to kind of grow them at
scale. So I think whatever time I've spent in Ocean Exchange
and I've dealt with all these companies, there are so much of
innovation, there's so much of talent that is just
(19:42):
incredible. I mean like the insights that they bring and obviously,
you know, we as large corporations
being part of such incubators also is helpful because
we obviously then take our challenges, our
opportunities to the table and that's where the two
parties meet and we share those ideas.
And to be very honest, I've come across many great
technologies and interestingly enough what I
(20:04):
found is that how some of these
startups have been able to break down the
complexity of a certain equipment, of
a certain technology and be
able to still deliver or at least envisioning to
deliver exact same output but
very minimal resources or in a smarter
way which hasn't been thought through in the industry. Again
(20:26):
there are many examples again from carbon
capture to production of future fuels, to
battery energy storage systems to fuel cells,
to many new smart ideas of
leveraging AI and machine learning. So again
the talent pool is massive, the ideas
are immense and it's now
(20:46):
obviously responsibilities of both parties to come together
and march together to find
and keep moving this dial forward of finding some exciting
solutions to the big challenge that we have.
>> Birgit Liodden (20:58):
And based on this experience that you've had with actually
being getting that period of time where
you're able to allocate
more time basically to really get
to know the innovators ecosystem. One of
the major challenges for a lot of the innovators coming
from out, from the outside or not holding the corporate background
(21:18):
right, it is kind of getting
those doors open and getting access
to senior executives,
advisors from the
stakeholders that represent their own
future customers. Do you have some good advice both
through to other cruise executives out
there? How can they contribute, how should they,
(21:39):
you know, contribute towards bringing that
industrial experience into to the startup world?
And also for the startups, how could they
approach industrial stakeholders?
Whether they don't get the sales in straight
away, how could they approach others like
you to kind of to vet their
(21:59):
thesis and to vet their theories and
make sure that they develop solutions that the
industry can actually work, with and
use?
>> Anshul (22:08):
Yeah, so certainly I think it's a two way traffic.
you know, obviously the executives or
corporations have to play their part and obviously the innovators
have to play their part of innovating
and you know, discovering those, or inventing those
brilliant ideas. So obviously with my experience, what I
can share, I think communication is the key.
you can obviously roll up your sleeves and sit in the garage
(22:31):
and invent the most brilliant idea, but till
the time you're not going to take it outside the garage and
socialise about that idea, that idea is just going to sit
in your garage and just keep piling dust. Right?
So I think once, and sometimes
the idea could be just a moonshot, it could be over the
horizon idea, but sometimes you don't know
(22:51):
how to proceed with that idea, how to
materialise that idea. Now you may have a brilliant idea,
but you need some guidance early
on to be channelizing all your
energy. And obviously all these startups have limited kind
of resources when it comes to energy, in terms of
capital, in terms of manpower, etc. So they
need to be very particular that, okay, if we have a great
(23:13):
idea, how do we channelize this in the right
direction so that we are effectively leveraging
all the resources that we have. So again, it could be
a, over the horizon idea. And there are many
multiple resources out there which you can
use to bounce off these ideas through these incubators.
Obviously the incubators can, obviously they're working
(23:33):
sometimes closely with some of these big
entities and you don't need to go and literally bounce off this idea
with 10 different companies. I think if one or
two representatives are there and helpful
enough to give you some feedback, feedback back, then at least
you're heading in the right direction. Contrary,
on the executive side, on the company sides,
(23:54):
again, as I said, everybody is actively seeking for
these innovative solutions. Right. As I said early
on, we can't just solve all these big problems by
ourselves and we are looking for these solutions. I
think as an industry executive you need to be out there.
You can't just sit there and expect that all these
companies that are going to just magically appear on your table and they're going
(24:14):
to, you know, give you the solutions you have to get
out. You also have to go and explain your
challenges and opportunities. How are these ships
operating? Most of the times what I've learned In my kind
of interactions over the years is that,
you know, we think that the world understands
us, the world understands cruising or the world understands
maritime. And unfortunately, when you meet with some of these
(24:36):
innovators, they may have brilliant solutions, but they don't understand
shipping, even though nine out of 10 goods in
your home come from the ships. But many of these innovators
don't understand that. What are the challenges, why the
shipping industry is such a hard to abate sector. So
that's why the onus is also upon the shipping industry.
One to communicate effectively, what are
(24:56):
the challenges and how can they be converted into
opportunities then obviously to invest. I'm
like to co invest to an investment doesn't mean only
from a capital point of view. Investment means from a time perspective
like, hey, are we ready to invest some of our time, some of
our data? Because data is also key for some of these
innovators to learn and bring the idea to
a fruition because they may have brilliant
(25:19):
technology, but till the time you feed in the data
for it to then bring an output for you, it's also
not kind of very useful. So I think
investment in terms of time and capital and then obviously
nurturing them. Because once you've identified a
moonshot, or even if not, if it's not a moonshot
of something which can be applied in a year or two, then you
(25:40):
need to nurture the technology, you need to modernise the technology,
you need to make sure that it's effectively being
integrated into and you can obviously run test
pilots. We have multiple ships which can be
used. Obviously you can't make them as guinea pigs, but
certainly if a technology has a good enough value
proposition, they can be brought on board and they can be
validated. And again, we have equal
(26:02):
skin in the game from both the company as well as from
the innovator and you can move that forward, which then
lays down the pathway for future innovation to happen.
Or the replication of the technology onto the rest of the
fleet.
>> Birgit Liodden (26:14):
Absolutely. And that kind of, picking up on
that point, you have there, you know, bringing them on
board. I mean you have been an executive in
residence. I often like to compare
ships with like being, you know, the
optimal floating canvas for
innovation. And what would you think, about like a
concept of, of thinking of this as, you know,
(26:36):
entrepreneur in residence, so that you could actually
get the entrepreneurs and the innovators out there,
with stakeholders in, in the cruise sector to actually,
you know, familiarise them more with
how our real life world,
functions out on The Seven Seas.
>> Anshul (26:53):
I think you just hit the nail in the head by using the
terminology when you say like, you know, the floating
canvas. And I think that's very
well put. Like, you know, we literally have a floating canvas
and there is, there's an opportunity in every
aspect of cruising. I mean like, you know, to
enhance, to innovate, to make the cruising, make the
vacationing more responsible. Going to the
(27:15):
future. so I think the, the industry's
existence very much depends on innovation and
sustainability because we can't just keep operating like
this. Certainly will have to change the course, alter
the course, be bold, be radical.
And again, certainly we will be more
than willing and helpful to have
entrepreneurs on board who can sail with us. and
(27:37):
we'll be more than happy to open the doors. And I think most of the
companies should be happy to open the doors because have those
entrepreneurs come on board, sail with you, spend some time
with you, I think because once they are on board they will
understand the problem or the
challenge in actual reality. And then
it's easy to connect those dots once you get back onto
(27:57):
the drawing board, onto the canvas that how do we now
connect those dots in a way
which can be mutually benefiting in many aspects
of sustainability. So I like that idea. The
entrepreneurs in residence.
>> Birgit Liodden (28:11):
Great. So I think I will
definitely push this forward to ctrade.
Imagine if, like for ctrade 2026,
that we could actually bring back to the
Expo a portfolio of companies
and entrepreneurs that have been through such an
initiative. And then I, then I wondered because
we I mean we talked about the, the decarb side of
(28:33):
it, which is your, you know, core area.
But, but you also mentioned in our initial
conversation, solutions handling
your waste streams and the issues
and impact of your
operations, when it comes to local communities and
more the social sustainability aspect. Are there
any areas there specifically where you would
(28:55):
direct our attention when it comes to, you know, where,
where there is really great opportunities for, for
partnering up, with innovators?
>> Anshul (29:03):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the whole fundamentals of
sail and sustain that. You have to keep sailing, but you have to sail
in a very sustainable and responsible way. And
again, you know, and operations of this size and
this complexity involves many different waste
streams. Obviously. One area that you mentioned that I'm very
closely working on is obviously the decarbonization, which
(29:23):
is the air emission sites. Obviously, you know, looking at
greenhouse gases, you're looking, looking at local
emissions and as well as the local pollutions, local
pollutants, but how do we manage the wet
and the dry waste on board? And there are many ideas out there
that are there any ways that we can effectively
manage this? one is obviously the recycling and the
circularity part of it that how do you effectively
(29:45):
store them on board and then you land them ashore and
after you land them ashore, are they reaching the right points of
recycling and recirculation and being, putting, put back into
the economy, but also on board, how can
we, because again, you know, it takes a lot of space on
board to store them as well, before you actually,
actually can land them. But can they be effectively be
(30:05):
used on board? Meaning can we
generate energy from waste, and how
can we effectively convert some of the waste into
energy, into, into fuels, into et
cetera? So I think there's a lot of effort, there's a lot of good
things that have happened where a lot of that waste energy or
those waste streams have been converted. Obviously none
(30:25):
of the wastewater is actually ever emitted into the oceans
without getting properly treated in an effective
way. But again, you know, there are many, many more
opportunities of converting these waste streams into
some meaningful, ways of converting them
either through energy or putting them, you know, in a
recircular way back into the economy or back to the ship's
operations or ships use. Plus also I think one thing
(30:48):
I would just quickly add is the, on the social side of the things as
well because you know, we obviously visit some of these
small islands across the world. I'm like, you know, ocean is
our bread and butter and and we have to
obviously make sure that we are conserving our oceans
from sound perspective,
not polluting our oceans and also not leaving any trace
(31:09):
to all these islands that we go and how we
can contribute to the sustainability of the
island, coastal resilience and making
sure that also these communities, these small communities
which actually are our extended family when
we visit these different ports, that how can we
also leverage our, you know, our
connections, our resources to somehow also
(31:31):
uplift these communities in these small, you
know, developing island nations, over a longer period
of time.
>> Birgit Liodden (31:38):
Excellent. Thank you so much. And then
I just have one last question that we ask, for
all our cruise pioneers and cruise innovators and that
is linked to tomorrow's talents today
because of course in this
extremely complex transition phase that we
are in, we really need great people on
board with us building the future of cruise.
(32:01):
And I would like to hear your five cents, your
personal hacks or advice to
talents and current and future industry
colleagues. If you have some specific
skill sets or mindset that you consider
key. For those talents who are eager
to join the cruise pioneer movement,
I would.
>> Anshul (32:20):
Start by saying like, it's not unfortunate,
but it's not like many. Often that it happens
when people pass out from their
Ivy League schools or some other
exciting educational institutions and they say like, yeah,
we're ready for the maritime industry because again the
knowledge about shipping or maritime is very limited.
(32:40):
but again that also tells us there's
ample opportunity out here. I mean like these
vessels are going multiple
locations all over the globe. So the
potential or the scale at which you can
define the future of cruising, of
maritime is immense. Right. So
(33:01):
I think important is the
communication, and having that ability, ability to
challenge the status quo. I think there's a lot of opportunities
on board. I know the shipping has
had that kind of very conservative approach. So I think
for the future pioneers, I think what's important is that you
should be willing, you should be daring enough to have
those bold ideas and be willing to challenge the status
(33:23):
quo. And the opportunities are limitless.
And the scale at which you can have an impact
both on cruising, both on shipping and also the
overall economy in general, it's
immense. So it's a great time, It's a great
time to be in this industry. And the industry is
evolving and the industry is ready to evolve. The
(33:44):
industries is kind of kicking itself and saying like, hey,
we can't just keep operating like this. So we
need some innovators, we need some great minds to
come join this movement, to take the cruising
or shipping in general towards the pathway of decarbonization.
It's a very hard to abate sector. Everybody understands that. But
that can also tell you that what are
the opportunities? It's limitless. So I
(34:07):
think it's a great time and I encourage everybody who's
listening out there to be part of this movement
and join and you're going to leave a big impact, a
big legacy for the years to come for both shipping and
maritime.
>> Birgit Liodden (34:19):
Absolutely. And what a better time to be
a change maker than in a time where there is a lot of
big, big challenges to resolve. And also
within an industry where you as one
person, one human being can actually be
part of really making an
international footprint.
>> Anshul (34:39):
Absolutely.
>> Birgit Liodden (34:40):
That leaves us on ah, a good
note and we are soon going to team
up together at Seatrade Trade in Miami for their
40th anniversary. And Anshul, you will
be part of our decarbonization
panel on the, Safety and Sustainability
Theatre. I'm really excited for that
and I think that all innovators out there should really make
(35:03):
sure, to get in touch with you and your
peers in Miami. And I want to thank
you so much for joining us today and
sharing your wisdom and experience
and, advice with us.
>> Anshul (35:16):
Well, thank you very much, Brigitte. Honours was mine and
again, best wishes and we look forward to
collaborate and keep moving this journey forward
until we reach the destination Net zero.
>> Birgit Liodden (35:28):
Excellent. Thank you.
Welcome to the Cruise Pioneers podcast by
tool hosted on Seatrade Cruise Talks
Podcasts.
Hello, I'm Birgit Leodon, Sustainability Ambassador
of Seatrade Trade and founder of the Ocean Opportunity Lab.
In this new series we will dive into the pioneering
initiatives of cruise lines and entrepreneurs who
(00:22):
move and change the cruise industry. We focus on
real life frontrunner initiatives and power
couples enabling crews to move
from pollution to solution. Get on board our
shared expedition as we get behind the scenes
and explore how owners, founders and
top executives move from vision to
deployment. With me today from Miami is
(00:44):
Anshul, Vice President, Energy
Strategy and Decarbonization at Norwegian
Cruise Line Holdings. Anshul is a maritime
executive with more than 20 years of experience in
strategic leadership and technical roles,
scaling sustainable business solutions and
creating a multidimensional framework to accelerate
innovation and change. Anshul is
(01:07):
celebrated for new ways of thinking, challenging old
ideas and building mutually benefiting
partnerships. And before ncl, he
spirited the Global Fleet Optimization and
Decarbonization strategy as an
Associate Vice President with Royal Cribbing
Group where he led their energy asset and programme
management for all of the five cruise brands under
(01:29):
the group's umbrella. Anshul, it's so nice to
have you in the studio with us today.
>> Anshul (01:34):
Thank you very much Birket and I must commend this brilliant
initiative that you've started within the maritime industry.
So kudos to that and thank you very much. I feel privileged to be
part of.
>> Birgit Liodden (01:44):
This podcast series and we are so
excited to get to dive into
your very dedicated background
and also some quite cool and open
ideas. Moving through this episode, I
wanted to make this a little bit personal while also
checking in on the NCL targets and
starting by introducing the
(02:07):
company and the pioneer commitment. Can
you share a bit with us about NCL's
key targets but also let
us in on your own personal commitment
as a cruise pioneer with high level targets
towards a clean, waste free,
nature friendly cruise industry building the
(02:27):
competitive edge for a future proof industry
onwards.
>> Anshul (02:31):
Absolutely. So NCLH
Norwegian Cruise line Holding has three main brands,
Norwegian Cruise Lines, Oceania and Region 7 Seatrade
Cruises. And we have this programme, the
environmental programme called Sail and Sustain.
And basically the fundamental of Sail and Sustain programme
is to ensure that we deliver the
vacations to all our guests, but in a responsible
(02:53):
way. obviously as you can imagine, the sale and sustain
programme encompasses a lot of aspects of
sustainability, but from a decarbonization
perspective, which we all are
constantly and relentlessly moving towards,
is to have a net zero as many of the companies
around the world by 2050. And
we have intermediate milestones which are very well
(03:15):
synchronised with the IMO targets. aiming
for a 10% reduction in intensity by
2026, then aiming for 25%
intensity reduction by 2030 and then eventually
going to net zero by 2050. So that's from the
NCL edge side. and the programme that we have,
the sale and sustain programme from my side. I think
(03:36):
I've now been in this industry for now more than 20
years as you pleasantly introduced me.
And obviously I've ah, been on both the shipboard side
as well as on the shore side. And my
personal aim is that how can we challenge the
status quo within the industry and have some
bold visionary ideas to make this
industry really kind of
(03:58):
achieve all the goals and targets
that we have in terms of decarbonization and broader
sustainability aspects. So I think over the last 10
years that I've been, or actually 10 plus years that I've been here on the
shore side, I've been pushing the
boundaries and targets that how do we
enhance the energy efficiency on our fleet and how do
we cut the energy waste? Because I believe
(04:21):
enhancing the energy efficiency is the first
fuel towards the transitions of the bigger goals and
targets that we have. And obviously now with all the
regulatory environment that is changing, we
obviously need to think big, we need to obviously
achieve those incremental improvements but also aim for
those radical improvements that the industry is
very much in need of if you compare ourselves
(04:43):
to the aviation and the automobile industry.
So again, challenging the status quo, thinking
big, thinking bold, leveraging data
and machine learning and AI into the
shipping industry and achieving ultimately the
decarbonization and net zero goals by 2050.
>> Birgit Liodden (05:00):
A great starting point for the next question
that I prepared for you Anshul. I mean to
achieve this kind of change
from the inside, but also looking towards other
industries, I would like to dive in with
you a little bit more about the potentials,
the untapped potentials of power coupling,
(05:20):
large corporate players like yourself and
the world of startups and smaller innovators.
And I want to hear a bit about your
perspectives, you know, the optimal dynamics
of how we can work with this power coupling.
Because obviously you as a group have
amazing resources, great opportunities
(05:41):
to make change and then there are also some
capabilities that typically are stronger
with small and nimble startups
and brand new companies. So can you
share with me what you consider yourself as
kind of those optimal cases of power coupling
and what can you bring to the table. And
what is it that you need from small
(06:03):
stakeholders?
>> Anshul (06:04):
Well that's a very interesting terminology called
power coupling. And I think in any couple
format you need to identify the mutual win,
the mutually benefiting relationship between the two partners
or multiple partners, as you engage in that
process. I think no single entity, no
single company, no single country, can
(06:25):
achieve the kind of challenges
on its own. I think especially when it comes to decarbonization
of the industry, especially for a very hard to wage sector
like shipping, it's going to be very difficult for any
single company to find all the solutions by itself.
So certainly we need to partner. Collaboration is the
key, communication is the key. But obviously
(06:45):
the industry is also very limited. Right. It's a very
small industry compared to the other
sectors which are, you know, outside our kind of
domain of maritime, what we call as maritime.
I certainly believe that, you know, obviously we are
making all these incremental improvements with our partners but
I certainly believe there is a lot of potential
outside the industry. There are a lot of ideas
(07:07):
that we can cross pollinate and bring some of those
ideas within our industry. Now you
asked me about the power coupling and what is the most
optimal dynamic. I think, you know, we must
realise as a, as an industry that you
know, we have to also go out and communicate
with these, you know, small startups where we have to make
them understand that what are the challenges as
(07:30):
an industry we are facing. They may have a brilliant idea
and they may even have a solution which is probably working on
land based solutions but they may not have an idea that
how to kind of have an application on board a vessel
and sometimes I refer to as the modernization
of the great idea that is already being levied
on the land based solution. similarly
(07:50):
on the startup side, obviously they need to also
show an intent. They also need to be ready
to be bold and be part of this challenge
to associate themselves with the maritime industry. So
I think in a sense both the parties need to
come together. We need to obviously share all our challenges and
opportunities. They need to learn from us and they need to
(08:10):
be ready, ready enough to be
agile and move quickly enough to
achieve some of these successes together.
>> Birgit Liodden (08:18):
And how easy is it for a startup to get in
touch with you guys? I mean you're among
the four largest groups in this
field.
>> Anshul (08:27):
Yeah, that's a good question. And oftentimes it's not that
easy because obviously there are many players that you
have to deal with at the same point in time.
But I think There are a lot of incubators, like I believe you
have an incubator that you're running on your side, a lot of incubators that
are coming up and they have obviously their connections
into the big maritime companies. So I would suggest
(08:48):
like any startup who's out there obviously, you know, try
to reach out directly, indirectly. There are many platforms,
many forums now which are available and
eventually I think that somehow that
ice has to be broken, in order to connect all the
parties. But you're right, I think Birkhead, in a
broader sense it's sometimes easier said than done.
But I certainly believe if you really believe in
(09:11):
your technology and mind you, I'm like most of the maritime
companies are now even actively seeking to
be partners of such incubators because they know that's where
most of the talent is actually coming to. So
obviously it's sometimes very difficult to identify a needle in a
haystack and neither we're not going to be going
out and going to every single startup. But I
(09:31):
think there are many, numerous platforms and incubators
which are available as of today where some of these
startups or many of these startups can associate
themselves and somehow if the technology
has a value proposition, will certainly bubble
up to the maritime company
or an entity for sure.
>> Birgit Liodden (09:50):
M Of course for these
startups it's so important to know
where are the pain points, where are the issues that
the big corporates needs their help of
solving. I wanted to also tune
in and hear from you if you can share a bit
about NCL's work so far, where
(10:10):
you are now on your path towards
reaching these high level ambitions. Where is
it that you are, you know, on track or ahead of the group's
target? Or are there any specific
areas where you have experienced some, challenging
bottlenecks or barriers that you really
would see as great opportunities
(10:31):
for startups to come in
with new alternative solutions?
>> Anshul (10:36):
Yeah, so obviously as I mentioned early on
that sustainability is a very broad topic for
a cruise vessel in particular because you're dealing
with all the way from air kind of how do you
handle your air emissions, how do you handle your waste
emissions, your wastewater emissions, your grey water
emissions, your wet and dry waste, et
cetera, et cetera. So it's a very broad category. Now
(10:58):
obviously what I'm focusing
on is on the decarbonization side. Right. And,
and as I mentioned early on that energy
efficiency is our first fuel towards our
transition because all these big goals that we have to
achieve are only possible through future low
carbon alternatives. Obviously you can keep
enhancing the energy efficiency of our fleet, but you're not going
(11:21):
to hit those targets till the time you
basically incorporate all these new future
fuels and future technologies. So I think the
industry, or the sector, cruising sector in particular
is slowly but surely ushering into an
era of hybridization. We're going to see multi fuels,
across different sectors, we're going to see different technologies and so on and
so forth. I think in short term, in short to medium
(11:43):
term, our focus now is on
technologies that enhance our
energy efficiency and cut our energy base. So there's a lot of
potential, a lot of solutions out there which
are working very well on a land based solutions or land
based applications which can be, you
know, somewhat brought into the
maritime application. There are already many, but there are many
(12:06):
more new innovative ideas that are coming and that
could, and that's not just purely from a hardware perspective, it could also
be from a software, from a data and digitalization
perspective, machine learning, AI and all those
different elements. Right. If you ask me about the bottlenecks,
I think the bottlenecks are again the
fuels, right now all the regulations,
(12:26):
the technology, the supply, they're not
synchronised. The regulations are somewhat 10 steps
ahead of what is available right now.
I think now with all these increasing
regulations in the taxonomy, there's a lot of money that is
being collected within Europe and elsewhere around the world
and we hope to see some of that coming also
through the imo, very soon. The
(12:49):
key challenge here now is that how do we effectively
use that, all that money, all that revenue
that we're going to be collecting through the allocation or
auctioning of those revenues that
how do these startups and organisations
effectively leverage all that money into
building that infrastructure for the future, especially in
(13:10):
terms of fuel. So the last mile connectivity
and building those fuels and getting it on board the vessel,
I think that's where our biggest bottleneck is right now. We may
be ready by 2028, 2029, but
the big challenge is where are we going to find all that
biofuel and the green fuels and the E fuels.
And you can very well imagine we are not the only ones competing for
(13:30):
those fuels. There are many other sectors like aviation, the
data centres and so on and so forth, who are going to be also
competing for those green electrons and green molecules.
so we are looking for some innovative supply chain ideas, innovative,
innovative solutions for producing these fuel at
scale and the availability at which we need
across the globe and also the price parity. I'm like as you
(13:50):
can imagine, these fuels right now they're trading at
somewhere between two to three times, two to actually eight times the
premium of the conventional fossil fuels.
So I think that's where the bigger bottleneck is.
How do you create the scale, the availability and the
pricing parity between the conventional fuels?
And how can these startups, or how can different
(14:10):
companies come together and come up with these
innovative ideas and solutions by which we
can somehow remove these bottlenecks
and have the industry embrace all
these future solutions to effectively
decarbonize over the longer run?
>> Birgit Liodden (14:26):
Couldn't, agree more. So that's one
hotspot for the innovators. It's basically the energy
supply chain. Then I wonder what ah, about
your existing vessels? Because of course we can't
new build our way through this.
We also have to do a lot of exciting and
challenging stuff on retrofits,
implementing new solutions
(14:49):
as part of this new toolbox
really. So which areas is it that
you are looking into where there could be great
opportunities for entrepreneurs? Would you look at energy
and circular solutions etc. on board
your existing vessels?
>> Anshul (15:05):
As you can imagine, we are still building ships and
again the average life of these vessels is somewhere between
30 to 35 years, which is roughly 10 to
15 years higher than a conventional
regular bulk carrier or container
ships, et cetera. So any ship that we are building today will
be very much in the water by 2050,
as you can imagine, unless the regulations kind of
(15:27):
snatch away the licence to operate in some point in time.
But I don't expect that to be happening because obviously there
will be some solutions which will be available for us to
retrofit, etc. Etc. So I think
in the short run, as I mentioned, that energy efficiency
also, or operations optimization
is one of our biggest focus areas. And when
(15:47):
we talk about operations optimization, we're looking at
for example route optimization, ensuring that. How
are we planning our itineraries in the most
effective way? How are we kind of ensuring that we're
having the most optimal port stay, Are we
departing on time, are we arriving on time and so
on and so forth. Looking at vessel operations
optimization, again, cruise vessels are
(16:10):
technologically very advanced vessels. There are so many
systems, so many solutions on board, from galleys
to laundries to H vac to energy
that is consumed on the electrical side. So again, there's
a lot of sensors, there's a lot of data that is collected on
board, billions of raw data tags that we collect.
and now obviously with the available bandwidth how we can
(16:30):
leverage that data, apply the analytics and derive
business intelligence out of it so that we can
effectively help our shipboard personnel
to pinpoint where exactly they need to act
upon. we also obviously look at the hull coating
strategy that how, what kind of technology do we put on
our ships? Because it's not just only about the paint that goes on
underwater, it's actually a technology. And obviously you
(16:52):
mentioned about circularity. We are obviously working with our paint
partners that how can we minimise the
impact of any particulates that
we put in these paints to obviously ensure
that we are having minimum coefficient of
friction, but also making sure that we're not leaving any
bad footprint into our oceans.
>> Birgit Liodden (17:12):
Right.
>> Anshul (17:12):
Because ultimately that enters into our food chain and you know,
all the kind of repercussions post that. So we're working on
circularity that every time a ship goes into a dry dock,
when we, when we kind of, you know, blast all that pain,
can we reuse that, you know, inorganic compound
into and make it a more of a circular economy when
it comes to the paint? obviously on
(17:33):
the energy retrofit sides, I mean like there's
a lot of potential over there from H vac to electricals
to hydrodynamics and we are constantly looking for new ideas
and believe me, it's just never ending. And we are
seeing so many solutions that are emerging now and we
expect to see them growing and growing. Obviously then there are
other aspects about shore power and
(17:53):
other aspects which obviously we do our level best to
make sure that our fleet is capable and ready
to be able to plug in. But I think right now the challenge is
more on the shore side that how many ports are
ready, with the shore power connection and more importantly
they're ready with the shore power connection. What's the energy mix
that they are delivering to our ships?
>> Birgit Liodden (18:13):
It's quite a complex, topic.
And it's also interesting because you
spent some time as an executive in residence
with Oceans Exchange, which is I think my
opinion, you know, probably the leading
innovation, competition and challenge in
our industry. And so you have also been diving
in little bit deeper with startups
(18:35):
than a lot of the other executives. And are
there any specific directions,
niches, type of solutions? If you look at
onboard carbon capture and storage,
wind, solar, et cetera, are there any kind
of favourite nerding areas that
you discovered, that you are following
especially that you think is really well fit for,
(18:57):
for the large cruise vessels?
>> Anshul (18:59):
Yeah, I think my time in Ocean Exchange has
been incredible. Because I think the kind of
knowledge and the, the brilliance that I've
come across has just been mind blowing. Like you know,
there's so much of talent out there. It's
unfortunate. As you rightly said in the very beginning of this
conversation, like how do we make, how do we power
(19:19):
couple you know, the industries which are
actively seeking for these solutions and all that
great talent that exists outside the industry or within
the industry to bring some of these ideas, to
nurture some of these ideas and to kind of grow them at
scale. So I think whatever time I've spent in Ocean Exchange
and I've dealt with all these companies, there are so much of
innovation, there's so much of talent that is just
(19:42):
incredible. I mean like the insights that they bring and obviously,
you know, we as large corporations
being part of such incubators also is helpful because
we obviously then take our challenges, our
opportunities to the table and that's where the two
parties meet and we share those ideas.
And to be very honest, I've come across many great
technologies and interestingly enough what I
(20:04):
found is that how some of these
startups have been able to break down the
complexity of a certain equipment, of
a certain technology and be
able to still deliver or at least envisioning to
deliver exact same output but
very minimal resources or in a smarter
way which hasn't been thought through in the industry. Again
(20:26):
there are many examples again from carbon
capture to production of future fuels, to
battery energy storage systems to fuel cells,
to many new smart ideas of
leveraging AI and machine learning. So again
the talent pool is massive, the ideas
are immense and it's now
(20:46):
obviously responsibilities of both parties to come together
and march together to find
and keep moving this dial forward of finding some exciting
solutions to the big challenge that we have.
>> Birgit Liodden (20:58):
And based on this experience that you've had with actually
being getting that period of time where
you're able to allocate
more time basically to really get
to know the innovators ecosystem. One of
the major challenges for a lot of the innovators coming
from out, from the outside or not holding the corporate background
(21:18):
right, it is kind of getting
those doors open and getting access
to senior executives,
advisors from the
stakeholders that represent their own
future customers. Do you have some good advice both
through to other cruise executives out
there? How can they contribute, how should they,
(21:39):
you know, contribute towards bringing that
industrial experience into to the startup world?
And also for the startups, how could they
approach industrial stakeholders?
Whether they don't get the sales in straight
away, how could they approach others like
you to kind of to vet their
(21:59):
thesis and to vet their theories and
make sure that they develop solutions that the
industry can actually work, with and
use?
>> Anshul (22:08):
Yeah, so certainly I think it's a two way traffic.
you know, obviously the executives or
corporations have to play their part and obviously the innovators
have to play their part of innovating
and you know, discovering those, or inventing those
brilliant ideas. So obviously with my experience, what I
can share, I think communication is the key.
you can obviously roll up your sleeves and sit in the garage
(22:31):
and invent the most brilliant idea, but till
the time you're not going to take it outside the garage and
socialise about that idea, that idea is just going to sit
in your garage and just keep piling dust. Right?
So I think once, and sometimes
the idea could be just a moonshot, it could be over the
horizon idea, but sometimes you don't know
(22:51):
how to proceed with that idea, how to
materialise that idea. Now you may have a brilliant idea,
but you need some guidance early
on to be channelizing all your
energy. And obviously all these startups have limited kind
of resources when it comes to energy, in terms of
capital, in terms of manpower, etc. So they
need to be very particular that, okay, if we have a great
(23:13):
idea, how do we channelize this in the right
direction so that we are effectively leveraging
all the resources that we have. So again, it could be
a, over the horizon idea. And there are many
multiple resources out there which you can
use to bounce off these ideas through these incubators.
Obviously the incubators can, obviously they're working
(23:33):
sometimes closely with some of these big
entities and you don't need to go and literally bounce off this idea
with 10 different companies. I think if one or
two representatives are there and helpful
enough to give you some feedback, feedback back, then at least
you're heading in the right direction. Contrary,
on the executive side, on the company sides,
(23:54):
again, as I said, everybody is actively seeking for
these innovative solutions. Right. As I said early
on, we can't just solve all these big problems by
ourselves and we are looking for these solutions. I
think as an industry executive you need to be out there.
You can't just sit there and expect that all these
companies that are going to just magically appear on your table and they're going
(24:14):
to, you know, give you the solutions you have to get
out. You also have to go and explain your
challenges and opportunities. How are these ships
operating? Most of the times what I've learned In my kind
of interactions over the years is that,
you know, we think that the world understands
us, the world understands cruising or the world understands
maritime. And unfortunately, when you meet with some of these
(24:36):
innovators, they may have brilliant solutions, but they don't understand
shipping, even though nine out of 10 goods in
your home come from the ships. But many of these innovators
don't understand that. What are the challenges, why the
shipping industry is such a hard to abate sector. So
that's why the onus is also upon the shipping industry.
One to communicate effectively, what are
(24:56):
the challenges and how can they be converted into
opportunities then obviously to invest. I'm
like to co invest to an investment doesn't mean only
from a capital point of view. Investment means from a time perspective
like, hey, are we ready to invest some of our time, some of
our data? Because data is also key for some of these
innovators to learn and bring the idea to
a fruition because they may have brilliant
(25:19):
technology, but till the time you feed in the data
for it to then bring an output for you, it's also
not kind of very useful. So I think
investment in terms of time and capital and then obviously
nurturing them. Because once you've identified a
moonshot, or even if not, if it's not a moonshot
of something which can be applied in a year or two, then you
(25:40):
need to nurture the technology, you need to modernise the technology,
you need to make sure that it's effectively being
integrated into and you can obviously run test
pilots. We have multiple ships which can be
used. Obviously you can't make them as guinea pigs, but
certainly if a technology has a good enough value
proposition, they can be brought on board and they can be
validated. And again, we have equal
(26:02):
skin in the game from both the company as well as from
the innovator and you can move that forward, which then
lays down the pathway for future innovation to happen.
Or the replication of the technology onto the rest of the
fleet.
>> Birgit Liodden (26:14):
Absolutely. And that kind of, picking up on
that point, you have there, you know, bringing them on
board. I mean you have been an executive in
residence. I often like to compare
ships with like being, you know, the
optimal floating canvas for
innovation. And what would you think, about like a
concept of, of thinking of this as, you know,
(26:36):
entrepreneur in residence, so that you could actually
get the entrepreneurs and the innovators out there,
with stakeholders in, in the cruise sector to actually,
you know, familiarise them more with
how our real life world,
functions out on The Seven Seas.
>> Anshul (26:53):
I think you just hit the nail in the head by using the
terminology when you say like, you know, the floating
canvas. And I think that's very
well put. Like, you know, we literally have a floating canvas
and there is, there's an opportunity in every
aspect of cruising. I mean like, you know, to
enhance, to innovate, to make the cruising, make the
vacationing more responsible. Going to the
(27:15):
future. so I think the, the industry's
existence very much depends on innovation and
sustainability because we can't just keep operating like
this. Certainly will have to change the course, alter
the course, be bold, be radical.
And again, certainly we will be more
than willing and helpful to have
entrepreneurs on board who can sail with us. and
(27:37):
we'll be more than happy to open the doors. And I think most of the
companies should be happy to open the doors because have those
entrepreneurs come on board, sail with you, spend some time
with you, I think because once they are on board they will
understand the problem or the
challenge in actual reality. And then
it's easy to connect those dots once you get back onto
(27:57):
the drawing board, onto the canvas that how do we now
connect those dots in a way
which can be mutually benefiting in many aspects
of sustainability. So I like that idea. The
entrepreneurs in residence.
>> Birgit Liodden (28:11):
Great. So I think I will
definitely push this forward to ctrade.
Imagine if, like for ctrade 2026,
that we could actually bring back to the
Expo a portfolio of companies
and entrepreneurs that have been through such an
initiative. And then I, then I wondered because
we I mean we talked about the, the decarb side of
(28:33):
it, which is your, you know, core area.
But, but you also mentioned in our initial
conversation, solutions handling
your waste streams and the issues
and impact of your
operations, when it comes to local communities and
more the social sustainability aspect. Are there
any areas there specifically where you would
(28:55):
direct our attention when it comes to, you know, where,
where there is really great opportunities for, for
partnering up, with innovators?
>> Anshul (29:03):
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the whole fundamentals of
sail and sustain that. You have to keep sailing, but you have to sail
in a very sustainable and responsible way. And
again, you know, and operations of this size and
this complexity involves many different waste
streams. Obviously. One area that you mentioned that I'm very
closely working on is obviously the decarbonization, which
(29:23):
is the air emission sites. Obviously, you know, looking at
greenhouse gases, you're looking, looking at local
emissions and as well as the local pollutions, local
pollutants, but how do we manage the wet
and the dry waste on board? And there are many ideas out there
that are there any ways that we can effectively
manage this? one is obviously the recycling and the
circularity part of it that how do you effectively
(29:45):
store them on board and then you land them ashore and
after you land them ashore, are they reaching the right points of
recycling and recirculation and being, putting, put back into
the economy, but also on board, how can
we, because again, you know, it takes a lot of space on
board to store them as well, before you actually,
actually can land them. But can they be effectively be
(30:05):
used on board? Meaning can we
generate energy from waste, and how
can we effectively convert some of the waste into
energy, into, into fuels, into et
cetera? So I think there's a lot of effort, there's a lot of good
things that have happened where a lot of that waste energy or
those waste streams have been converted. Obviously none
(30:25):
of the wastewater is actually ever emitted into the oceans
without getting properly treated in an effective
way. But again, you know, there are many, many more
opportunities of converting these waste streams into
some meaningful, ways of converting them
either through energy or putting them, you know, in a
recircular way back into the economy or back to the ship's
operations or ships use. Plus also I think one thing
(30:48):
I would just quickly add is the, on the social side of the things as
well because you know, we obviously visit some of these
small islands across the world. I'm like, you know, ocean is
our bread and butter and and we have to
obviously make sure that we are conserving our oceans
from sound perspective,
not polluting our oceans and also not leaving any trace
(31:09):
to all these islands that we go and how we
can contribute to the sustainability of the
island, coastal resilience and making
sure that also these communities, these small communities
which actually are our extended family when
we visit these different ports, that how can we
also leverage our, you know, our
connections, our resources to somehow also
(31:31):
uplift these communities in these small, you
know, developing island nations, over a longer period
of time.
>> Birgit Liodden (31:38):
Excellent. Thank you so much. And then
I just have one last question that we ask, for
all our cruise pioneers and cruise innovators and that
is linked to tomorrow's talents today
because of course in this
extremely complex transition phase that we
are in, we really need great people on
board with us building the future of cruise.
(32:01):
And I would like to hear your five cents, your
personal hacks or advice to
talents and current and future industry
colleagues. If you have some specific
skill sets or mindset that you consider
key. For those talents who are eager
to join the cruise pioneer movement,
I would.
>> Anshul (32:20):
Start by saying like, it's not unfortunate,
but it's not like many. Often that it happens
when people pass out from their
Ivy League schools or some other
exciting educational institutions and they say like, yeah,
we're ready for the maritime industry because again the
knowledge about shipping or maritime is very limited.
(32:40):
but again that also tells us there's
ample opportunity out here. I mean like these
vessels are going multiple
locations all over the globe. So the
potential or the scale at which you can
define the future of cruising, of
maritime is immense. Right. So
(33:01):
I think important is the
communication, and having that ability, ability to
challenge the status quo. I think there's a lot of opportunities
on board. I know the shipping has
had that kind of very conservative approach. So I think
for the future pioneers, I think what's important is that you
should be willing, you should be daring enough to have
those bold ideas and be willing to challenge the status
(33:23):
quo. And the opportunities are limitless.
And the scale at which you can have an impact
both on cruising, both on shipping and also the
overall economy in general, it's
immense. So it's a great time, It's a great
time to be in this industry. And the industry is
evolving and the industry is ready to evolve. The
(33:44):
industries is kind of kicking itself and saying like, hey,
we can't just keep operating like this. So we
need some innovators, we need some great minds to
come join this movement, to take the cruising
or shipping in general towards the pathway of decarbonization.
It's a very hard to abate sector. Everybody understands that. But
that can also tell you that what are
the opportunities? It's limitless. So I
(34:07):
think it's a great time and I encourage everybody who's
listening out there to be part of this movement
and join and you're going to leave a big impact, a
big legacy for the years to come for both shipping and
maritime.
>> Birgit Liodden (34:19):
Absolutely. And what a better time to be
a change maker than in a time where there is a lot of
big, big challenges to resolve. And also
within an industry where you as one
person, one human being can actually be
part of really making an
international footprint.
>> Anshul (34:39):
Absolutely.
>> Birgit Liodden (34:40):
That leaves us on ah, a good
note and we are soon going to team
up together at Seatrade Trade in Miami for their
40th anniversary. And Anshul, you will
be part of our decarbonization
panel on the, Safety and Sustainability
Theatre. I'm really excited for that
and I think that all innovators out there should really make
(35:03):
sure, to get in touch with you and your
peers in Miami. And I want to thank
you so much for joining us today and
sharing your wisdom and experience
and, advice with us.
>> Anshul (35:16):
Well, thank you very much, Brigitte. Honours was mine and
again, best wishes and we look forward to
collaborate and keep moving this journey forward
until we reach the destination Net zero.
>> Birgit Liodden (35:28):
Excellent. Thank you.
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