August 8, 2024 • 42 mins
Today on the show, Gerry welcomes Mike Messner, the Director of the Student Academic Success Center. Mike's a lifelong Laker holding two degrees from Grand Valley, a master's degree in higher education, and a bachelor's degree in biology. In today's episode, Mike throws a lifeline for the most troubling student concerns --mental health concerns, tutoring with Grand Valley's hardest classes, along with professional and academic success services. Mike demonstrates his excellence in student affairs with over 18 years of experience at Grand Valley.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Welcome to the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.
This is your captainspeaking on this show.
We navigate the voyage of lifethrough the lens of Lakers,
some who have just come aboard,and others who are well underway.
We will speak with experts who will showus the ropes, help us plot a course,
and recount exhilaratingtales of uncharted territory,
all while promoting lifelong learning,agility, and a culture of mentorship.
(00:30):
Welcome to the Seidman MentorshipPodcast. I'm Dylan Jones-Wrisley,
the editor for Season Four. Today onthe show, Gerry welcomes Mike Messner,
the Director of the StudentAcademic Success Center.
Mike's a lifelong Laker holdingtwo degrees from Grand Valley,
a master's degree in higher education,and a bachelor's degree in biology.
(00:52):
In today's episode,
Mike throws a lifeline for the mosttroubling student concerns --mental health
concerns, tutoring with GrandValley's hardest classes,
along with professional andacademic success services.
Mike demonstrates his excellence instudent affairs with over 18 years of
experience at Grand Valley.
(01:20):
Well, you know, it seems likeas I go on with the podcast, I,
I keep bringing thesepeople back from my past.
And I think this is because there'sone of two ways to look at it.
Either you guys never move, or ,
Grand Valley does a great job of creatingenvironment where people wanna come
back, and today's guest isin that category. And this goes back to, more of my,
(01:40):
my mentors. And this isn't a reviewof, of Gerry's mentors over the years.
This is more about, I think,
the systems that exist at GrandValley that people forget about, until
they really need them. And so today we'regoing to try to preempt some of that,
by bringing on today'sguest, Mike Messner, Mike,
(02:00):
Director of the StudentAcademic Success Center.
The Mez back in the day. Um, greatto see you. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no, it was great to see you too.
So, I asked our researchdepartment to do research on you.
Oh, geez.
We're going to see how good that they did.
So Mike started his educational journeyat Grand Valley with a Bachelor in
(02:21):
Science in Biology. Yep.
After graduating continued education atGVSU and got an MED that's a master's in
education.
Yep.
In college Student AffairsLeadership. After completing these,
he pursued a PhD in AdultLifelong Education at MSU.
Yep.
Did you complete that?
I did not complete it. Icompleted all the coursework, um,
(02:42):
but I didn't finish the whole program.
Is it true that the PhD sucks all thejoy out of whatever topic?
It's, you know, it's a, it's aninter um, I really love the courses.
I just got really busy. I, I still,
I think I will go back andfinish one of these days.
All right.
But we'll see. Yep.
The terminal degree, they call it.
Because it either is the end of youreducation or the end of you is the...
(03:04):
I, that's, I like that. Yes.
It's the joke.
Yep.
Then you spent two yearsat Kansas State University,
as a Residence Life Coordinator,
also spent a year at CentralMichigan as Residence Hall Director.
You were the Director of StudentLife at Davenport for six years.
Yep.
And then, started at GV in2006. And this is where my,
(03:28):
I, you and I both know you didn't startat Grand Valley in 2006 because we met
when, when you had kind of startedprofessional employment at Grand Valley.
And that was, I won't mentionthe year. It was a long time ago.
Yeah. It was in the mid, mid-ninetiessomewhere. It was. So yes.
It was, it was 1994. Since you broughtup the decade., I'll, I'll,
I'll nail it down. And I say thatbecause for, for our listeners,
(03:51):
in one of those cosmic things thatif I was writing a fictional novel,
you wouldn't dare writeit this way. Right.
So this is one of those coincidencesthat it's just such a coincidence.
You wouldn't dare write it,because they're like, oh, that's a,
it's obviously a plot twist.
But you were my resident advisor.
You were my hall director inCopeland. Yes. My freshman year.
(04:12):
So I appear at GrandValley, and you were there,
and we mentioned this duringthe, the warmup, but I was not,
I was not a problem for you. In fact, Iwas such a wallflower that I remember.
I'm surprised you,
you even remember me because other thanwhen you had to pull us together for a,
you guys were knucklehead meetings whenwe played football in the, you know...
(04:32):
Yeah. Little bowling alley setup in the hall, things like.
Yep. We had something goingon and you had to call us in.
And the thing I love about this,and, and that I remember about you,
because you know, the, the,
the brother and sisterhood that belongsto the "S shaped dorms" at Grand Valley.
Right. So your Copeland,your Kissler, your Robinson,
everybody knows everybodybecause we all live in this,
this little end of campus. And Iknew some of the other directors,
(04:55):
and I'm thinking of, I'm thinkingof Joe from Kissler.
And I'm thinking of, unlike the greatpolice movies that I love, where the,
the police chief's always thatguy who screams all the time.
You were not that kind of leader. Youwere very quiet. You'd pull us in.
You're like, you guys, you didthis. That, we can't have that.
And this is the way out of that. We'renot doing that again. Okay. Good.
(05:15):
You know, go back to your rooms, andJoe was the, the screaming police chief.
Joe's a teacher now, he teachesmath at Cass Tech, I believe.
All right. Well, um, good forJoe. But I, I remember you guys,
and this,
this comes around to thispiece of mentorship because I think people always do
better when they're supported. Andthat mentor, whether that's, you know,
(05:36):
your RA is, is is there for partof that. The friends that you meet,
these first connections you make atGrand Valley are super important.
Super important. Alright. So thatwas your first actual gig, so, um,
this probably hidden suppressedon your, on your resume.
A little bit. I mean, I was aresident assistant then. Um,
while I was doing my master'sdegree, I was a graduate student,
(05:58):
in housing res life. And then partwaythrough, I was, I was hired as the,
like adjunct living centerdirector back in Copeland Hall,
which was kind of cool for me becauseI was an RA there then I was the living
center director there. But I, Iloved working in housing res life,
but I love what I'm doing now, too.
And now you're the director of StudentAcademic Success Center-- SASC.
Is what we call it. Andthat's a, that's a fun name.
(06:22):
Current role 14 years.
Yeah.
Married with two children.
Yes. That's all true as well. Yep. Geez,you guys, this is like deep research.
I'm a little nervous whatelse is on that list.
But, yeah. Well, I'll tell you when, when,
it's funny because when we have guests, I,
my student workers don't like most ofthe work that we make them do. Mm-Hmm.
because it's work. Butthere are fun things we get to do.
(06:42):
And research is one of those thingsnowadays, with our digital footprint.
But our Gen X generation,
it is hard to find stuff onus because it didn't exist.
And then by the time it did,we all figured out like, oh,
this is a bad idea 'cause it's forever.
And then we were very grateful thatall the things that we had that were on
Polaroid have since either beendestroyed or locked in a safe.
(07:03):
Only to be open upon my passing. So...
I don't think I had email until mysenior year of college. So, I mean,
that's.
. If you recall when emailbecame a thing, I'm using air quotes.
At Grand Valley we had the terminalup in Copeland, right? Mm-Hmm.
. And then you had like,like two terminals. When I say terminal,
for, for you later gens listening. Yep.
(07:27):
That means a computer screen with akeyboard that was somewhere that was
accessible to the public.And there was one,
I think there was obviously one in thecomputer labs. Mm-Hmm..
There was one, I think in Mackinac andone in like Ausable or something. Mm-Hmm.
. And we checked theemail like, once a week. Mm-Hmm.
.
And the only people on email were othergeeks like me at other universities.
(07:49):
Um, who were emailing. You get an emailfrom somebody at Michigan Tech. Yeah.
I'm like, wow, cool.And it was this novelty.
It was definitely not somethingthat we do now, constantly. Alright.
By the way, um, my room was retired.I don't know if you knew that or not.
The number three...
I think they told me that, yeah.
313 Copeland no longer exists. That,that tells you about my legacy.
(08:12):
Yeah. What is it now?
They changed the numbers.
Oh, okay.
So one summer they were paintingand I was with another, alumni, um,
Marty, who lived across the hall fromme. Owned that great motorcycle. And,
we happened to be on campus.I said, let's go to Copeland.
And they were painting. So we gotinto the building, we went upstairs,
we looked at our old rooms, and theyjust changed the numbering. Okay.
(08:33):
So the room is there,but the number is gone.
Okay.
But I think it's better formy mystique if I just say...
It's gone.
The room was retired. They blocked itin. And, you know, it's a secret now. So,
um, I, I said this before,
when students first come. And you've seenthis now in so many iterations, right?
(08:55):
You saw it as a residentadvisor. You're now seeing it,
as director of SASC.
What's the most important thing thatstudents do when they first come to campus
to set themselves up for success?
I think, you know, I think there's amix of things that are hugely important.
I think, you know, coming to collegeis one of those big life transitions.
(09:17):
I mean, leaving home, going from highschool for most of us into college. Um,
so it's figuring out the new place,the new people, the new system.
Um, I think some of the things that,that we see that, again, most folks,
most new students aren't great at,is figuring out the time management,
(09:37):
the organization. Like howto get a system. You know,
your system that worked in highschool might not work the same.
So you gotta adjust, adapt, figure outhow that's going to work. I think it's,
I think sometimes we come outof, out of high school thinking,
"I don't need help." "I can do this.You know, nobody gets help. But I mean,
that just, that's nothow it is. So, I mean,
(09:58):
one of the big ones too is reaching out,you know, connecting with your advisor,
a success coach, your mentor,or going to the tutoring center,
talking to your professors inoffice hours. So, you know,
kind of making this place your home,finding your people here, finding friends.
Um, and just really, not justletting it happen to you,
but also being active and reallythinking about, hey, what's,
(10:22):
this is the time where I'mgoing to, I can reinvent myself.
I can do anything I want.It's a whole new environment.
So being kind ofintentional and smart about,
about that while you're making theshift from, from high school or, um,
you know, a gap year or whateverit is, into, into college.
That reset that you're talking about,
I think escaped me untilalmost grad school.
(10:45):
So it took me an awful longtime. But I'm a slow learner.
is, you get achance to reset yourself.
So who you were in high school.The person that you developed,
the clique that you hung with, the,the, your group, whatever it was,
how you saw yourself, you geta complete chance to redo.
That's also true semesterto semester only because
(11:09):
how many times do you really stay incontact with that person from biology
class? And maybe you don't.
So the next semester you'rein a whole new set of classes.
Nobody knows who you are, right? Orthere's always a new friend group.
And I think that choosing a friendgroup for that first-year student, or,
exploring who you'reconnecting to is so important.
(11:31):
And needs to be thought about with agency,
because sometimes we fall into groups of,
of friends that maybearen't the best for us.
Where do we find these,these groups of friends?
The positive ones that take care of us?
You know, I, I think it's a,um, I think it kind of depends.
(11:51):
And I also think, you know,
you can have different friend groupsthat you do different things with. Um,
but I do think it's super smart to find
a group that is academicallymindset or, you know,
kind of act focused on their academics,
maybe in your same majoror a similar major. Um,
(12:11):
and so again, that can be throughclasses that could be joining like clubs,
organizations with similarinterests to you. Um,
it could just be folks you meet inclass. I was a, we talked about,
I was a biology major, so, youknow, we had big lecture halls,
but we had small labswhere you had, you know,
these were two or three hour labs.
You do have time to really get tomeet people, talk with people, um,
(12:33):
kind of feel those things out. Um, butI, I think some of it too is just going,
you know, being open, open to newfriendships, open to new people,
different people. Um, but again,
finding folks that also are there forthe same goals that you are earning
your degree, moving forward.Um, and are going to, you know,
support you versus pull you down and,and pull you into other things sometimes.
(12:58):
So we establish ourselves.We go to campus life night,
we look at, um, different opportunities.
And campus life night is not just forfreshmen. I wanna put that out there.
You get this chance every semester toreinvent yourself because you can choose
new people, right? AndI always tell people,
find something you absolutely wouldn'thave done, and give it a shot..
(13:22):
You're not pledging yourself todo whatever the group is doing.
Go to a couple meetings,see what's going on.
But there's over 400 registeredstudent organizations at Grand Valley.
Go find some people and learn,
the diversification ability to networkwith people you wouldn't normally.
That's a huge skill, especially forour business majors who are listening.
Because you will do business with peoplewho are not like you. I guarantee it.
(13:45):
In fact, I'll go out on a limb andsay, if you're a Grand Valley student,
you're going to do that anywayno matter what your major is.
And you're going to learn that.
So let's talk specifically more aboutSASC. And I have some questions here from,
from the, from the departmentof research, who are students.
What are the first steps when youstart falling behind in a class?
(14:07):
I, I think it is torealize what's going on.
And also seek out help. Um, you know,if you're falling behind in class, I,
you know, I say your professors,
your academic advisor,or your success coach,
if you have one, are always greatstarting points, because again, if they...
(14:29):
These folks care about you, they'vebeen at the institution a long time.
This is what we're here todo is help you be successful.
And if I can't answer all your questionsor your professor can't, they've,
they know where to connectyou, the resources. Um,
so it's coming in and again,
maybe working with a success coachin my office or a different office to
(14:50):
rethink how you're spending your time,rethink your study strategies, um,
reassess, you know, your approach thatyou're doing test taking. So kind of,
kind of whatever that is. I think the,
the one thing that's really important issometimes I kind of see a couple groups
of folks, you know, um,
people that know they'renot doing as well.
(15:11):
Something's going on and they seekhelp and they try to right the ship.
Other people just kind of stay in that.
And maybe they're going toget lucky and pull out of it,
but sometimes they don't. Or sometimesthere's a group that starts to shut down,
like, they're not doing great. Andnow they start avoiding things.
And that's a really, that group, you know,
that's scary because we lose someof those folks, you know. Um,
(15:32):
so I'd say first thing isif you feel something's off,
just seek help. I mean, anda lot of times it's not,
you might not need to meet witha success coach every week,
but you may have two or three meetingswhere you get some really good skills and
then are able to kind of take itfrom there and move from there.
I call it coasting and ghosting.Yeah. I like that. And, and the,
(15:54):
the rails end at coasting and ghosting,
usually with you separatedfrom the thing permanently. Um,
whether that's people, organizations,classes, majors, or your college career,
you start coasting and ghosting. Ican tell you how it's going to end.
So you need somebody and
they're there for you. Um, and itcan start with that friend group,
(16:17):
but engaging that professor usually.
The next question's in here is --I'mstruggling with a professor's teaching
style or tough grading, howdo I handle it? And, okay,
let's do the obvious thing. Engagethat professor and say, "hey, you know,
what do I gotta do?" I am ahuge advocate of office hours.
That's how I met my mentors.Yeah. Go to office hours,
because literally professors aresitting there with nothing to do,
(16:39):
wishing that somebody would come and talkto them. Sans talking to my professor,
what kind of ideas or strategies doyou have if you're struggling with a
particular, ,
professor with their teachingstyle or their tough grading?
Yeah, I think there's a few placesto kind of start. Again, I mean,
academic advisor, success coach is agood one. Um, but other things are,
(17:02):
you know,
finding ways to connect with maybeupper class students who have had this
professor in the past. So, whetheryou're in a formal mentoring program,
I'm a big proponent of, youknow, especially your first year,
join some student orgs for fun,
but join one or two that are either lineup with your professional goals or your
academic goals because one of the thingsyou have there is if I'm a first year
(17:25):
student in that club organization,
there's a lot of juniors andseniors who have had my professors,
had the classes I've taken. Um, and canbe, you know, just good resources on,
"hey, here's what worked forme. Here's, um, you know,
this professor isn't as scary as youthink. When I went and met with him.
You know, things turned around."So, it's just good resources there.
The other one is, you know, tutoring,whether you're doing scheduled tutoring,
(17:48):
we have a lot of drop-in tutoringoptions. Um, but I, you know,
I kind of think if you're nervousabout going to a professor, an advisor,
a success coach can help you getthere, but also take advantage of,
you know, other studentsat the university that,
that have had that professormaybe, or, you know,
are further along in the program.
That's great advice. We've used the termseveral times. What is a success coach?
(18:11):
So, a success coach. Um,
most of us have been through some levelof coaching, training actually. And,
you know, kind of the way I woulddescribe a success coach. You know, if I,
if I put it in context,like what's a success coach?
What is an academic advisor? What's,um, a counselor or a therapist?
(18:32):
We're sort of in the same area sometimes,but take different approaches like,
you know,
a counselor or a therapist is goingto work with you on things that have
happened in the past,making meaning of those.
And how does that propel you forward?
An academic advisor is really going tofocus on the academics. So like, um,
the courses, you know,
moving towards graduation orgraduate or professional school,
(18:57):
a coach, our job is reallyto take you where you're at,
see and see where you wannago with things. So, um,
we ask a lot of questions. We kind ofhelp you figure out where you need to go.
And, and a lot of what we work on is,you know, time management, organization,
study strategies, goalsetting. Um, but it's, it's,
(19:19):
it's not super focused on past behaviors.
It's more on, let's takeyou where you're at.
Let's focus on your strengths and let'sget you where you can go and not worry
as much about the past. So kind ofa, a forward thinking, you know,
I kind of say growth mindset, um,
(19:39):
strengths-based approach to helpingstudents be successful is what,
what we really focus on.
It's that learning agilityis determine. I keep hearing,
and I love what you're talkingabout, being where you're at,
because if we're ruminating on thefuture or we're living in the past,
neither of those things really changeanything in the present besides us
machinating on, on what we'retalking about, what we're thinking,
(20:01):
what we're feeling. Itusually isn't positive. Um...
I love that.
And I think it could becomplimentary. I mean,
probably two thirds of the studentsI'm working with also are working with
somebody in Disability SupportResources or a therapist. Um,
a lot of 'em also meet regularlywith their advisors. So it's not,
it's not like a one or the other.
(20:21):
It's let's compliment each other in ourapproach to helping you be successful.
Thanks for bringing up, DisabilitySupport Resources. DSR. Because
when I, when I, I don't knowif it existed in my time,
I do know since then that I learndifferently than other people. Um,
and there are certain situationsthat I would struggle with.
(20:42):
So recently I was working on a, anew certification rating in aviation.
And, it's basically,here's the online program.
Call us when you're ready to takethe test. That is doomed for me.
That is absolutely theworst way for me to learn.
Give me an in-class interactivestyle is way better for me.
(21:03):
Can you talk a little bitabout DSR and demystify?
Because I think a lot of people think,
unless I am physically unable to get toa class, unless I have this, you know,
very obvious thing where you couldjust have a different learning style
and DSR can be helpful. So canyou un-mystify that for us?
No, I think DSR, um, it's agood connection for anybody.
(21:24):
Whether you're talking abouta, a physical disability,
some type of processing issue, you know,
we've just seen in the country. I mean,
a huge spike in folks coming toschool with anxiety, depression,
ADHD numbers are going way up.
More folks are coming in on theautism spectrum. And again, that,
(21:47):
that's probably half of our students,whether they're registered or not. So,
most folks are succeeding. It justis figuring out, um, you know,
if I learn a little different, ifI need to restructure how I am,
my study time looks a littledifferent based on the way I learned,
DSR can help folks get moving on that.
We also work super closely withDSR and do all, you know, the,
(22:10):
the coaching we do, um,
I think also helps students' kind ofneurodivergent students coming in as well.
Um, the other thing I'd say aboutDSR is, you know, if you go in,
you meet with somebody, you have adisability or register with them,
you're going to have options as far asaccommodations. Not everybody takes that.
(22:32):
Like sometimes I'll have a studentwho they have extended test taking
time,
or they can take an exam in thetesting center and maybe for one or
two other classes that's helpful.But for other classes, that's just,
they don't need to do that. And so, again,
you can also choose how much youwant to share with your professors,
how you want to talk things out. But,
but then you do have your accommodationset up ahead of time if you need 'em,
(22:56):
then you can tap into 'em and,and you're ready to go with it.
And I love the fact of what you said,
and I think that that helps because Ithink some people feel that if I register
a DSR,
then suddenly this is public thing thatI am either neurodivergent or I learn
differently or there'ssomething wrong with me.
And that's not the way it is atall. And as an instructor myself,
sometimes when they're crazy enough tolet me go off the rails and go teach,
(23:20):
we, I'll tell you how itworks. The first day of class,
the student comes up to me, they handme a letter. That letter is from,
DSR that says, "hey,
this student gets this accommodation ifthey choose to use it." So one student,
one semester got to recordlectures. Because that helped them.
It wasn't a major,
thing or gets more time testingor an alternative testing
(23:43):
style.
So maybe there's an oral examinationinstead of to take away test anxiety of a
written test or, um, online versus,or paper, whatever it is, to,
to help students out. So yes.Leaning into DSR, I think, um,
thank you for demystifying that for us,
because I think that's a underutilizedresource. And I know very,
very successful people. A friendof mine who loves it so much,
(24:07):
he's getting his second PhD.
Oh, geez.
Okay. Um,
has registered DSR and was the firstperson who told me about it when I went
back for my master's that said,"hey, I'm a psychotherapist and,
and have you thought about this?"Mm-Hmm. And, um, I think it's an over,
it's overlooked and,
and there shouldn't be any stigmaassociated with your DSR. Yep.
(24:28):
So next question, a studenthas a major life tragedy.
Who should they speak with first aboutacademics and the academic plan? Yeah.
I, you know, I think, um,
talking with your professorsis, is hugely important. Um,
you know,
if there's a life tragedy where I'm goingto miss a significant amount of class,
(24:51):
or I might have to withdraw thatsemester, um, advisors a good start.
Our office works with a lot of that, too.
We'll send notices out to your professorsthat you might be out because of an
injury, a family emergency. Um,
the Dean of Students Office is also areally good resource where they can work
with you on, you know, layingout some options about, you know,
do I need to withdraw thisterm? Can I make it through,
(25:16):
what support systems can we putin place to help you, you know,
manage whatever's going on? Um, soI'd say, you know, your professors,
advisors, our office, dean of students,are all good kind of starting places.
If, if you have a, a, you know,
a life circumstance thatis going to significantly
(25:36):
impact your ability to do wellin the semester you're in.
And what I'm hearing is, is all of thesethings are not coasting and ghosting.
All these things are engaging withsomebody. And so, I mean, you've,
you've given an open invitation. So forthe freshman student who's listening,
or the student who hasn'tused any of these resources,
(25:58):
I think the key to this is to establisha relationship before you need one.
Now there's introverts listeningto this podcast who said, yep,
I'm going to go see Mez as soonas, as there's a need to do that.
I suggest it might be worth connecting.And whatever those resources.
And we all work togetherbehind the scenes.
I'm attached to advising hereat Seidman. So, we see all,
(26:20):
we work together on this, right?
So the professors working together withadvising, working together with SASC,
working together with the Dean of StudentsOffice. So no matter where you go,
you're going to get options and ideas.
Two things I want to make clear.You're still driving the bus, right?
So all these things are laid out.
Nobody's going to tell you you haveto withdraw or you have to do this,
you have to do that. They're goingto say, these are the options.
(26:41):
And then you get to choose.
But it's really hard to choose if youdon't have that connection. Right.
And that's where the mentoring comes in.
So whether that's your student peermentor, your Junior/Senior mentor,
if you're Seidman student inthe program, or, um, our office,
the Mentorship office,whether you call Mez,
where any of these folks to dothat and going to your professor.
I always tell students,as wacky as it may seem,
(27:03):
especially if you're a businessstudent, that first day of class,
you have your business cards that youmade and you bought on Etsy or whatever.
Vista Print for 25 bucks.That say, you know,
I'm Gerry Cook and I'm a managementmajor at Seidmen College of Business,
expected graduation date,XYZ. First day of class,
I go up to the professor and I say, "hey,Professor Messner, nice to meet you.
(27:24):
I'm Gerry. I'm lookingforward to taking your class.
I'm a little concerned about this,that, and the other thing in,
in the curricula, here's mybusiness card." Now, when you go,
you're not an unknown quantityand you've psyched yourself up.
This is not a stranger anymore.
And it makes it easier for thosethings that come down the line.
And they're not always negative, right?So here I get to sit across from you,
(27:47):
you know, 33 years later. And, and,
and have this conversationbe like, "hey, um, I made it.
I'm okay. Yeah. I'm doing good. In fact,
I've come back." And the studentsdon't know how rewarding that is for us
too. Right? To see some of these, folks,especially the ones that struggled.
(28:07):
That make it, um, that'spretty cool. It's rewarding.
Yeah. The, the research out there, andthey use this term strong support person,
but it kind of says like,
students that find a strongsupport person on campus are much
more successful than students who don't.And that strong support, you know,
it doesn't say who that is. Like, strongsupport person means if I needed help,
(28:30):
I feel like I could go to this personand they would support me, listen to me,
believe in me, and get me where Ineed to go. Give me the help I need.
And so that's somethingjust to think about.
And that doesn't have to be the sameperson your whole four years at the
institution too. But, you know, thinkabout that. You know, like each semester,
like if I got stuck with something,is there a professor or an advisor,
(28:51):
a living center director? You know,my Business 101 professor. I mean,
whoever that, if I feelcomfortable going to that person,
it could be LGBT Center,Multicultural Affairs. And, you know,
if I went and talked to Gerryor whoever, he'd help me.
And so it's just important to, tonot be afraid to go when you need it,
(29:11):
but also to, to think about that,
identify somebody you feel comfortablegoing to if you need help with something.
And there's so many, the,
the great thing about Grand Valleyis I keep calling it the big small
university, right? So, um,we, we don't make the top,
you know, five universitiesin the country.
And I don't think that wasthe goal of Bill Seidman.
(29:32):
And the folks when this universitywas invented. Um, but boy,
I have never,
never met a staff or facultyperson who doesn't care. In fact,
um, I know some very talented facultyand staff who probably could go to one of
those big schools and do the big thingfor the big money or the big recognition,
(29:54):
and they stay at Grand Valley. And Idon't know why this is you, you tell me,
you've been around longer than me. What,
what is it about the culture of GrandValley that makes us caring and different?
Yeah. I don't know if I can answer thatforever. I mean, some of the things, um,
that I've, and I, you know, I'veworked at some large, you know,
(30:17):
a large research institution,um, another competitive,
small private school for a littlewhile. And I think they're all good.
It, it also goes backto what your mission is.
And I think one of the things wehave at Grand Valley is our mission,
the core of our mission really is to,to educate undergraduate students.
(30:37):
Like we're not, you know, our faculty,they do research, they do great things,
but that's not the focus.
The focus isn't getting the giant grantand doing the giant research project.
That's, you know, the, there'sresearch institutions that do that,
and there's faculty thatdo great work there,
but that's the faculty and staffhere that, that they haven't chosen,
that they've chosen to behere, work with undergrads, um,
(31:00):
really help folks move forward.And I think it's a, um,
you know, I just think we have acommunity of care, if nothing else.
Like people care about each otherand our students especially being
successful here.
What is one thing you wish studentstoday would do that they don't
(31:22):
do?
Seek out help when youneed it. I mean, there,
there is no weakness ingetting help, and you're not,
sometimes somebody thinks they're theonly one having this issue. You're not,
you know,
and you coming forward maybe helped yourfriend or other folks to get help that
they need. Whether that's academichelp, meeting with a counselor,
(31:44):
talking with somebody about maybe changingmajors if I'm not in there, you know,
whatever that is. Um, I wish studentswould do that. The other thing is, um,
a lot of what we do too is helpingfolks figure out a balance.
So thinking, you know, big picture,like, you know, most folks,
they've got a job. They're taking classes,
(32:07):
they're trying to have some kindof social life. They're, you know,
thinking towards the future,whether that's graduate school, job,
whatever, professionalschool. And it's, it's
It's easy to get out ofbalance and, you know, sleep.
People stop sleeping or really cut sleep.
And so I think it isthinking holistically,
(32:30):
like your academics are hugely important.
They're going to take a bigchunk of your time here,
but how do you fit that in withthe rest of your life and not, um,
you know, not start to cut thingsout that are also important.
So really thinking of balance,
thinking of having a balanced approachas well as seeking out help. Um,
and other folks that'll help supportyou through, because it's hard. I mean,
(32:52):
college is hard for everybody andeverybody's going to run into some bumps.
So knowing that's going to happen,
and then kind of having some strategiesto move through it when it does.
Having those support people to help talkthrough that, what your priorities are.
Couldn't agree morewith what you're saying.
(33:13):
Let's go back to the good olddays for a minute. Let, um,
I see a smile when we talk about that.College sure is different now, isn't it?
Than our time. Yeah. Withoutairing our dirty laundry, which I,
this has been suppressed. So thoseof you go back and look, good luck.
Trying to find our records, becausemost of them aren't there. No. And, um,
(33:35):
the digitization of the Lanthorn um,
makes that tougher to go back and seeanything. Although I don't think you,
nor I appeared in the Lanthornmore than once or twice.
Not a whole lot of times.
During, during our times there. So, um,
give us a flavor of,
of what it was like you've seen GrandValley through the ages and I think some
(33:56):
of this, this historygets a little bit lost,
but the differences betweennow and then, things you,
things you miss or things you don'tmiss. Whatever you want to share.
Yeah. I mean, we've changed a lot,but a lot of things are the same, too.
I mean, still a lot of the samecore values focus. I think, um,
you know, the, so I was afirst-year student in 1990.
(34:21):
We're about twice the size that we wereback then. So we've seen, you know,
a whole lot of, of growth inpeople. Um, I think, you...
You know, we didn't, again, wedidn't have, there's no cell phones,
no social media, none of thatstuff back then. So it, it,
(34:43):
you know, it forced you to spend timewith people, develop relationships,
all those kinds of things,which I think was good.
I think there's still theability to do that now,
but it's also easierfor some folks to, um,
kind of pull back to themselves too.So it's, again, it's figuring out,
still putting yourself outthere, doing some of that. Um,
(35:04):
one of the things that I think wedidn't have as much of back then,
or at least maybe I didn't know about 'em,
was the amount of supportservices we have. I mean, our,
our career center is, you know,has grown when the student body,
we've got some greatpeople in there. I mean,
we didn't have professional advisorsback then. There's professional advisors.
We didn't have successcoaches. Tutoring was like us,
(35:29):
a small little area inthe basement of, um,
I don't know if we stillcall it the Commons, the..
Yeah.
In the commons. And now it's, you know,
we've got drop-in centersall over the place. I mean,
we didn't even have adowntown campus. So I mean,
it was all concentrated inAllendale. So, I mean, I think, um,
(35:50):
you know, nostalgia wise, there'salways some good things. But I mean,
if I look at state of the art resources,
services, um,
access to really great internships,
professional career opportunities. I mean,
I think where we are now is, is great.
(36:11):
I also think, um, the studentbody isn't that different.
I mean, there's been, you know,we're, we're a little more diverse.
But if you look at academic profile,kind of where people came from, it, it's,
the place isn't that different than itwas 30 years ago of, of who's coming in.
Um,
and what folks' goals were coming into earn their degree and kind of make a
(36:34):
better life for themselves. Whateverthat looks like down the road.
I think the cars, thestudents driver are nicer now.
The cars are nicer. Yes.That's for sure. Yeah.
I, you know, I, I, I thinkback for my nostalgia,
I don't think I had one group of, Idon't, I don't think I had any friends,
freshman year who had one carthat didn't have a problem.
(36:54):
Like there always was a door thatdidn't open or don't open that window,
because it's a one way, and we had topile in to go to Jenison Meijer, right?
Because when I go to Allendalenow, it's mind blowing, right?
There were no services inAllendale. Um, back in,
in our time you had to goto Jenison to buy groceries,
you know, whatever, to go to BurgerKing, um, if you wanted off campus food,
(37:18):
all that stuff. So it was mind blowing.So another Copeland guy came to town,
um, who, you know, living on theeast side of the state, and I said,
when's the last time you were at GrandValley? And we had to go somewhere.
I said, let's, let's go to camp. Let,lemme show you what's going on. I mean,
it's just mind blowing. Um,
the amount of change in growthis our little university.
And I love that my degree looksbetter and better all the time. Yep.
(37:40):
As Grand Valley continues to grow.
That I agree.
Yeah. But the, I callit the random encounter.
Everybody listens to the podcastor knows me know that I'm a,
I'm a gamer from way back.Right? Talking tabletop D&D,
not the silliness that in allthis easy way to do it. Right.
I'm talking about the oldhard, the hard way. Right. Um,
we had that random encounter, right?
You're always meeting people kind ofbecause you had to or it wasn't weird
(38:03):
to sit in the Commons, um,
sit at any dining facility next to peopleyou didn't know. It was crowded. Um,
you know, everybody wanted to complainabout the food. That's a popular thing.
Yeah. To, to do at anyuniversity, any, any organization.
That's a popular thing to do,
but you're having these randomencounters with people. Also,
we didn't have the communicationabilities we have now.
(38:24):
So going to the bulletinboard to find a part-time job,
or to find a club, or to start a club.
or whatever it was, therewas an adventure to it.
Akin to when I first traveled abroad.And now with all the technology,
I can still be in my world and actlike I know what I'm doing. Right?
So I can get navigation, I can gettranslation, I can get information.
(38:48):
Back in the old days, you just hadto do it. And it was scary, but man,
did I feel like I leveledup when I did that, right?
Because if I could navigate, you know,Kyoto, Japan, without this stuff,
I certainly can come back.
And then when I had a business tripin the Midwest and you're like, oh,
you gotta go to Minneapolis forthis thing, you're like, whatever.
It's not Japan. I can, I can do this.Right? Everybody speaks the same language.
(39:12):
Um, and I see that asa, a missing component.
And I'm not saying that the students saythey don't know how to do it. I said,
I think they're hungry for it. Yeah.
They're hungry for a little bitof adventure with a safety net.
You still got your phone in yourpocket, but I encourage people to go,
go somewhere that you haven'tbeen before. What's your favorite?
If you just have a halfan hour or an hour to,
(39:35):
to spend on Allendale campus,what's a, what's an unknown?
I don't want you to give away yourgood ones, so people bother you.
But where's your, where's your go-towhere's your hangout spot that's,
that people miss?
I, you know, I, I think we mentioned,you know, in my undergrad's biology,
I'm working in a different field. Um,
I love to walk the ravinesor the arboretum or, um,
(39:59):
just check out the pond. I mean, I, I,that's, that's kind of how I reenergize.
I'm a little bit of anintrovert. I like to take a,
a walk at lunch and Ieither walk, you know,
the edge of the golf course or the ravinesand just kind of get out in nature.
We have, um, we have act. I mean,
not every school has that, you know,and it's just cool to get out and,
(40:22):
and do that. That's whatI really like doing.
I've said it before, um, and Iknow you're a fall person too.
Allendale campus in the fallis almost impossible to beat.
And there's some biguniversities out there.
But even if you go to Ivy League school,it's in a big city. And it feels,
smells like a big city. Allendale.And then if you get, you know,
outside of Allendale, go to RavinesPark, for example. Right there.
(40:46):
It's fantastic. There on the GrandRiver, watch the bald Eagles, whatever.
Um, I've given it away several times.My favorite one is the Seidman House.
Still is a great hangout. Ohyeah. Sunken. Yeah. Quiet, sunken,
seventies living room. Supercool. Um, watch the squirrels.
Check out squirrels of Grand Valley onInstagram. Um, it's a lot of fun. So,
(41:07):
Mike cosmic to see you, thanks forputting up with me, and helping me,
through that transition. Iam definitely one of those,
students who came from a very,very sheltered background. Um,
got plunged in, but I was the last offive, so my parents were exhausted,
so there was no going withme for orientation or move in. I, I did it all solo.
(41:28):
Um, thanks to, I don't know if itwas called transitions then. And,
and thanks for you for shepherdingus, around taking us to convocation.
It strikes me every year I go toconvocation and I try to be the last staff
faculty member in my,
in my wizard robes in and try towhoop up the crowd a little bit,
because I think it's a, it's aculmination start Yeah. Graduation.
That's the time for the solemnoccasion, but, um, convocation is a,
(41:52):
you know, voices together.Let's, let's do this thing,
and I think it's exciting andI, and I see the groups there, ,
sitting with the resident advisors.And it takes me back to when we did it,
you know, All those years ago.
Yeah. Few years ago. Yeah.
Those years ago. So appreciate youand, and thanks, for what you gave,
have given to Grand Valley and forthe students that, that you work with.
(42:13):
And you touched and appreciate you. Yeah.
Well, thanks for invitingme. I, this was a ton of fun.
Yeah. It's good to see you, Mike.Take care. Yep. Yep, you too.
Thank you for sailing along on thisepisode of the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.
For more information On the SeidmanCollege of Business Mentorship Program at
Grand Valley State University, lookus up on your favorite search engine.
(42:34):
If you have a story to tell,know someone we should interview,
have questions or comments,
please email us at smp@gvsu.edu.
Until next time, keep a weather eye onthe horizon and we wish you fair winds,
so long.
Welcome to the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.
This is your captainspeaking on this show.
We navigate the voyage of lifethrough the lens of Lakers,
some who have just come aboard,and others who are well underway.
We will speak with experts who will showus the ropes, help us plot a course,
and recount exhilaratingtales of uncharted territory,
all while promoting lifelong learning,agility, and a culture of mentorship.
(00:30):
Welcome to the Seidman MentorshipPodcast. I'm Dylan Jones-Wrisley,
the editor for Season Four. Today onthe show, Gerry welcomes Mike Messner,
the Director of the StudentAcademic Success Center.
Mike's a lifelong Laker holdingtwo degrees from Grand Valley,
a master's degree in higher education,and a bachelor's degree in biology.
(00:52):
In today's episode,
Mike throws a lifeline for the mosttroubling student concerns --mental health
concerns, tutoring with GrandValley's hardest classes,
along with professional andacademic success services.
Mike demonstrates his excellence instudent affairs with over 18 years of
experience at Grand Valley.
(01:20):
Well, you know, it seems likeas I go on with the podcast, I,
I keep bringing thesepeople back from my past.
And I think this is because there'sone of two ways to look at it.
Either you guys never move, or ,
Grand Valley does a great job of creatingenvironment where people wanna come
back, and today's guest isin that category. And this goes back to, more of my,
(01:40):
my mentors. And this isn't a reviewof, of Gerry's mentors over the years.
This is more about, I think,
the systems that exist at GrandValley that people forget about, until
they really need them. And so today we'regoing to try to preempt some of that,
by bringing on today'sguest, Mike Messner, Mike,
(02:00):
Director of the StudentAcademic Success Center.
The Mez back in the day. Um, greatto see you. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no, it was great to see you too.
So, I asked our researchdepartment to do research on you.
Oh, geez.
We're going to see how good that they did.
So Mike started his educational journeyat Grand Valley with a Bachelor in
(02:21):
Science in Biology. Yep.
After graduating continued education atGVSU and got an MED that's a master's in
education.
Yep.
In college Student AffairsLeadership. After completing these,
he pursued a PhD in AdultLifelong Education at MSU.
Yep.
Did you complete that?
I did not complete it. Icompleted all the coursework, um,
(02:42):
but I didn't finish the whole program.
Is it true that the PhD sucks all thejoy out of whatever
It's, you know, it's a, it's aninter um, I really love the courses.
I just got really busy. I, I still,
I think I will go back andfinish one of these days.
All right.
But we'll see. Yep.
The terminal degree, they call it.
Because it either is the end of youreducation or the end of you is the...
(03:04):
I, that's, I like that. Yes.
It's the joke.
Yep.
Then you spent two yearsat Kansas State University,
as a Residence Life Coordinator,
also spent a year at CentralMichigan as Residence Hall Director.
You were the Director of StudentLife at Davenport for six years.
Yep.
And then, started at GV in2006. And this is where my,
(03:28):
I, you and I both know you didn't startat Grand Valley in 2006 because we met
when, when you had kind of startedprofessional employment at Grand Valley.
And that was, I won't mentionthe year. It was a long time ago.
Yeah. It was in the mid, mid-ninetiessomewhere. It was. So yes.
It was, it was 1994. Since you broughtup the decade.
I'll nail it down. And I say thatbecause for, for our listeners,
(03:51):
in one of those cosmic things thatif I was writing a fictional novel,
you wouldn't dare writeit this way. Right.
So this is one of those coincidencesthat it's just such a coincidence.
You wouldn't dare write it,because they're like, oh, that's a,
it's obviously a plot twist.
But you were my resident advisor.
You were my hall director inCopeland. Yes. My freshman year.
(04:12):
So I appear at GrandValley, and you were there,
and we mentioned this duringthe, the warmup, but I was not,
I was not a problem for you. In fact, Iwas such a wallflower that I remember.
I'm surprised you,
you even remember me because other thanwhen you had to pull us together for a,
you guys were knucklehead meetings whenwe played football in the, you know...
(04:32):
Yeah. Little bowling alley setup in the hall, things like.
Yep. We had something goingon and you had to call us in.
And the thing I love about this,and, and that I remember about you,
because you know, the, the,
the brother and sisterhood that belongsto the "S shaped dorms" at Grand Valley.
Right. So your Copeland,your Kissler, your Robinson,
everybody knows everybodybecause we all live in this,
this little end of campus. And Iknew some of the other directors,
(04:55):
and I'm thinking of, I'm thinkingof Joe from Kissler
And I'm thinking of, unlike the greatpolice movies that I love, where the,
the police chief's always thatguy who screams all the time.
You were not that kind of leader. Youwere very quiet. You'd pull us in.
You're like, you guys, you didthis. That, we can't have that.
And this is the way out of that. We'renot doing that again. Okay. Good.
(05:15):
You know, go back to your rooms, andJoe was the, the screaming police chief.
Joe's a teacher now, he teachesmath at Cass Tech, I believe.
All right. Well, um, good forJoe. But I, I remember you guys,
and this,
this comes around to thispiece of mentorship because I think people always do
better when they're supported. Andthat mentor, whether that's, you know,
(05:36):
your RA is, is is there for partof that. The friends that you meet,
these first connections you make atGrand Valley are super important.
Super important. Alright. So thatwas your first actual gig, so, um,
this probably hidden suppressedon your, on your resume.
A little bit. I mean, I was aresident assistant then. Um,
while I was doing my master'sdegree, I was a graduate student,
(05:58):
in housing res life. And then partwaythrough, I was, I was hired as the,
like adjunct living centerdirector back in Copeland Hall,
which was kind of cool for me becauseI was an RA there then I was the living
center director there. But I, Iloved working in housing res life,
but I love what I'm doing now, too.
And now you're the director of StudentAcademic Success Center-- SASC.
Is what we call it. Andthat's a, that's a fun name.
(06:22):
Current role 14 years.
Yeah.
Married with two children.
Yes. That's all true as well. Yep. Geez,you guys, this is like deep research.
I'm a little nervous whatelse is on that list.
But, yeah. Well, I'll tell you when, when,
it's funny because when we have guests, I,
my student workers don't like most ofthe work that we make them do. Mm-Hmm.
(06:42):
And research is one of those thingsnowadays, with our digital footprint.
But our Gen X generation,
it is hard to find stuff onus because it didn't exist.
And then by the time it did,we all figured out like, oh,
this is a bad idea 'cause it's forever.
And then we were very grateful thatall the things that we had that were on
Polaroid have since either beendestroyed or locked in a safe.
(07:03):
Only to be open upon my passing. So...
I don't think I had email until mysenior year of college. So, I mean,
that's
At Grand Valley we had the terminalup in Copeland, right? Mm-Hmm.
for, for you later gens listening. Yep.
(07:27):
That means a computer screen with akeyboard that was somewhere that was
accessible to the public.And there was one,
I think there was obviously one in thecomputer labs. Mm-Hmm.
There was one, I think in Mackinac andone in like Ausable or something. Mm-Hmm.
And the only people on email were othergeeks like me at other universities.
(07:49):
Um, who were emailing. You get an emailfrom somebody at Michigan Tech. Yeah.
I'm like, wow, cool.And it was this novelty.
It was definitely not somethingthat we do now, constantly. Alright.
By the way, um, my room was retired.I don't know if you knew that or not.
The number three...
I think they told me that, yeah.
313 Copeland no longer exists. That,that tells you about my legacy.
(08:12):
Yeah. What is it now?
They changed the numbers.
Oh, okay.
So one summer they were paintingand I was with another, alumni, um,
Marty, who lived across the hall fromme. Owned that great motorcycle. And,
we happened to be on campus.I said, let's go to Copeland.
And they were painting. So we gotinto the building, we went upstairs,
we looked at our old rooms, and theyjust changed the numbering. Okay.
(08:33):
So the room is there,but the number is gone.
Okay.
But I think it's better formy mystique if I just say...
It's gone.
The room was retired. They blocked itin. And, you know, it's a secret now. So,
um, I, I said this before,
when students first come. And you've seenthis now in so many iterations, right?
(08:55):
You saw it as a residentadvisor. You're now seeing it,
as director of SASC.
What's the most important thing thatstudents do when they first come to campus
to set themselves up for success?
I think, you know, I think there's amix of things that are hugely important.
I think, you know, coming to collegeis one of those big life transitions.
(09:17):
I mean, leaving home, going from highschool for most of us into college. Um,
so it's figuring out the new place,the new people, the new system.
Um, I think some of the things that,that we see that, again, most folks,
most new students aren't great at,is figuring out the time management,
(09:37):
the organization. Like howto get a system. You know,
your system that worked in highschool might not work the same.
So you gotta adjust, adapt, figure outhow that's going to work. I think it's,
I think sometimes we come outof, out of high school thinking,
"I don't need help." "I can do this.You know, nobody gets help. But I mean,
that just, that's nothow it is. So, I mean,
(09:58):
one of the big ones too is reaching out,you know, connecting with your advisor,
a success coach, your mentor,or going to the tutoring center,
talking to your professors inoffice hours. So, you know,
kind of making this place your home,finding your people here, finding friends.
Um, and just really, not justletting it happen to you,
but also being active and reallythinking about, hey, what's,
(10:22):
this is the time where I'mgoing to, I can reinvent myself.
I can do anything I want.It's a whole new environment.
So being kind ofintentional and smart about,
about that while you're making theshift from, from high school or, um,
you know, a gap year or whateverit is, into, into college.
That reset that you're talking about,
I think escaped me untilalmost grad school.
(10:45):
So it took me an awful longtime. But I'm a slow learner.
So who you were in high school.The person that you developed,
the clique that you hung with, the,the, your group, whatever it was,
how you saw yourself, you geta complete chance to redo.
That's also true semesterto semester only because
(11:09):
how many times do you really stay incontact with that person from biology
class? And maybe you don't.
So the next semester you'rein a whole new set of classes.
Nobody knows who you are, right? Orthere's always a new friend group.
And I think that choosing a friendgroup for that first-year student, or,
exploring who you'reconnecting to is so important.
(11:31):
And needs to be thought about with agency,
because sometimes we fall into groups of,
of friends that maybearen't the best for us.
Where do we find these,these groups of friends?
The positive ones that take care of us?
You know, I, I think it's a,um, I think it kind of depends.
(11:51):
And I also think, you know,
you can have different friend groupsthat you do different things with. Um,
but I do think it's super smart to find
a group that is academicallymindset or, you know,
kind of act focused on their academics,
maybe in your same majoror a similar major. Um,
(12:11):
and so again, that can be throughclasses that could be joining like clubs,
organizations with similarinterests to you. Um,
it could just be folks you meet inclass. I was a, we talked about,
I was a biology major, so, youknow, we had big lecture halls,
but we had small labswhere you had, you know,
these were two or three hour labs.
You do have time to really get tomeet people, talk with people, um,
(12:33):
kind of feel those things out. Um, butI, I think some of it too is just going,
you know, being open, open to newfriendships, open to new people,
different people. Um, but again,
finding folks that also are there forthe same goals that you are earning
your degree, moving forward.Um, and are going to, you know,
support you versus pull you down and,and pull you into other things sometimes.
(12:58):
So we establish ourselves.We go to campus life night,
we look at, um, different opportunities.
And campus life night is not just forfreshmen. I wanna put that out there.
You get this chance every semester toreinvent yourself because you can choose
new people, right? AndI always tell people,
find something you absolutely wouldn'thave done, and give it a shot..
(13:22):
You're not pledging yourself todo whatever the group is doing.
Go to a couple meetings,see what's going on.
But there's over 400 registeredstudent organizations at Grand Valley.
Go find some people and learn,
the diversification ability to networkwith people you wouldn't normally.
That's a huge skill, especially forour business majors who are listening.
Because you will do business with peoplewho are not like you. I guarantee it.
(13:45):
In fact, I'll go out on a limb andsay, if you're a Grand Valley student,
you're going to do that anywayno matter what your major is.
And you're going to learn that.
So let's talk specifically more aboutSASC. And I have some questions here from,
from the, from the departmentof research, who are students.
What are the first steps when youstart falling behind in a class?
(14:07):
I, I think it is torealize what's going on.
And also seek out help. Um, you know,if you're falling behind in class, I,
you know, I say your professors,
your academic advisor,or your success coach,
if you have one, are always greatstarting points, because again, if they...
(14:29):
These folks care about you, they'vebeen at the institution a long time.
This is what we're here todo is help you be successful.
And if I can't answer all your questionsor your professor can't, they've,
they know where to connectyou, the resources. Um,
so it's coming in and again,
maybe working with a success coachin my office or a different office to
(14:50):
rethink how you're spending your time,rethink your study strategies, um,
reassess, you know, your approach thatyou're doing test taking. So kind of,
kind of whatever that is. I think the,
the one thing that's really important issometimes I kind of see a couple groups
of folks, you know, um,
people that know they'renot doing as well.
(15:11):
Something's going on and they seekhelp and they try to right the ship.
Other people just kind of stay in that.
And maybe they're going toget lucky and pull out of it,
but sometimes they don't. Or sometimesthere's a group that starts to shut down,
like, they're not doing great. Andnow they start avoiding things.
And that's a really, that group, you know,
that's scary because we lose someof those folks, you know. Um,
(15:32):
so I'd say first thing isif you feel something's off,
just seek help. I mean, anda lot of times it's not,
you might not need to meet witha success coach every week,
but you may have two or three meetingswhere you get some really good skills and
then are able to kind of take itfrom there and move from there.
I call it coasting and ghosting.Yeah. I like that. And, and the,
(15:54):
the rails end at coasting and ghosting,
usually with you separatedfrom the thing permanently. Um,
whether that's people, organizations,classes, majors, or your college career,
you start coasting and ghosting. Ican tell you how it's going to end.
So you need somebody and
they're there for you. Um, and itcan start with that friend group,
(16:17):
but engaging that professor usually.
The next question's in here is --I'mstruggling with a professor's teaching
style or tough grading, howdo I handle it? And, okay,
let's do the obvious thing. Engagethat professor and say, "hey, you know,
what do I gotta do?" I am ahuge advocate of office hours.
That's how I met my mentors.Yeah. Go to office hours,
because literally professors aresitting there with nothing to do,
(16:39):
wishing that somebody would come and talkto them. Sans talking to my professor,
what kind of ideas or strategies doyou have if you're struggling with a
particular, ,
professor with their teachingstyle or their tough grading?
Yeah, I think there's a few placesto kind of start. Again, I mean,
academic advisor, success coach is agood one. Um, but other things are,
(17:02):
you know,
finding ways to connect with maybeupper class students who have had this
professor in the past. So, whetheryou're in a formal mentoring program,
I'm a big proponent of, youknow, especially your first year,
join some student orgs for fun,
but join one or two that are either lineup with your professional goals or your
academic goals because one of the thingsyou have there is if I'm a first year
(17:25):
student in that club organization,
there's a lot of juniors andseniors who have had my professors,
had the classes I've taken. Um, and canbe, you know, just good resources on,
"hey, here's what worked forme. Here's, um, you know,
this professor isn't as scary as youthink. When I went and met with him.
You know, things turned around."So, it's just good resources there.
The other one is, you know, tutoring,whether you're doing scheduled tutoring,
(17:48):
we have a lot of drop-in tutoringoptions. Um, but I, you know,
I kind of think if you're nervousabout going to a professor, an advisor,
a success coach can help you getthere, but also take advantage of,
you know, other studentsat the university that,
that have had that professormaybe, or, you know,
are further along in the program.
That's great advice. We've used the termseveral times. What is a success coach?
(18:11):
So, a success coach. Um,
most of us have been through some levelof coaching, training actually. And,
you know, kind of the way I woulddescribe a success coach. You know, if I,
if I put it in context,like what's a success coach?
What is an academic advisor? What's,um, a counselor or a therapist?
(18:32):
We're sort of in the same area sometimes,but take different approaches like,
you know,
a counselor or a therapist is goingto work with you on things that have
happened in the past,making meaning of those.
And how does that propel you forward?
An academic advisor is really going tofocus on the academics. So like, um,
the courses, you know,
moving towards graduation orgraduate or professional school,
(18:57):
a coach, our job is reallyto take you where you're at,
see and see where you wannago with things. So, um,
we ask a lot of questions. We kind ofhelp you figure out where you need to go.
And, and a lot of what we work on is,you know, time management, organization,
study strategies, goalsetting. Um, but it's, it's,
(19:19):
it's not super focused on past behaviors.
It's more on, let's takeyou where you're at.
Let's focus on your strengths and let'sget you where you can go and not worry
as much about the past. So kind ofa, a forward thinking, you know,
I kind of say growth mindset, um,
(19:39):
strengths-based approach to helpingstudents be successful is what,
what we really focus on.
It's that learning agilityis determine. I keep hearing,
and I love what you're talkingabout, being where you're at,
because if we're ruminating on thefuture or we're living in the past,
neither of those things really changeanything in the present besides us
machinating on, on what we'retalking about, what we're thinking,
(20:01):
what we're feeling. Itusually isn't positive. Um...
I love that.
And I think it could becomplimentary. I mean,
probably two thirds of the studentsI'm working with also are working with
somebody in Disability SupportResources or a therapist. Um,
a lot of 'em also meet regularlywith their advisors. So it's not,
it's not like a one or the other.
(20:21):
It's let's compliment each other in ourapproach to helping you be successful.
Thanks for bringing up, DisabilitySupport Resources. DSR. Because
when I, when I, I don't knowif it existed in my time,
I do know since then that I learndifferently than other people. Um,
and there are certain situationsthat I would struggle with.
(20:42):
So recently I was working on a, anew certification rating in aviation.
And, it's basically,here's the online program.
Call us when you're ready to takethe test. That is doomed for me.
That is absolutely theworst way for me to learn.
Give me an in-class interactivestyle is way better for me.
(21:03):
Can you talk a little bitabout DSR and demystify?
Because I think a lot of people think,
unless I am physically unable to get toa class, unless I have this, you know,
very obvious thing where you couldjust have a different learning style
and DSR can be helpful. So canyou un-mystify that for us?
No, I think DSR, um, it's agood connection for anybody.
(21:24):
Whether you're talking abouta, a physical disability,
some type of processing issue, you know,
we've just seen in the country. I mean,
a huge spike in folks coming toschool with anxiety, depression,
ADHD numbers are going way up.
More folks are coming in on theautism spectrum. And again, that,
(21:47):
that's probably half of our students,whether they're registered or not. So,
most folks are succeeding. It justis figuring out, um, you know,
if I learn a little different, ifI need to restructure how I am,
my study time looks a littledifferent based on the way I learned,
DSR can help folks get moving on that.
We also work super closely withDSR and do all, you know, the,
(22:10):
the coaching we do, um,
I think also helps students' kind ofneurodivergent students coming in as well.
Um, the other thing I'd say aboutDSR is, you know, if you go in,
you meet with somebody, you have adisability or register with them,
you're going to have options as far asaccommodations. Not everybody takes that.
(22:32):
Like sometimes I'll have a studentwho they have extended test taking
time,
or they can take an exam in thetesting center and maybe for one or
two other classes that's helpful.But for other classes, that's just,
they don't need to do that. And so, again,
you can also choose how much youwant to share with your professors,
how you want to talk things out. But,
but then you do have your accommodationset up ahead of time if you need 'em,
(22:56):
then you can tap into 'em and,and you're ready to go with it.
And I love the fact of what you said,
and I think that that helps because Ithink some people feel that if I register
a DSR,
then suddenly this is public thing thatI am either neurodivergent or I learn
differently or there'ssomething wrong with me.
And that's not the way it is atall. And as an instructor myself,
sometimes when they're crazy enough tolet me go off the rails and go teach,
(23:20):
we, I'll tell you how itworks. The first day of class,
the student comes up to me, they handme a letter. That letter is from,
DSR that says, "hey,
this student gets this accommodation ifthey choose to use it." So one student,
one semester got to recordlectures. Because that helped them.
It wasn't a major,
thing or gets more time testingor an alternative testing
(23:43):
style.
So maybe there's an oral examinationinstead of to take away test anxiety of a
written test or, um, online versus,or paper, whatever it is, to,
to help students out. So yes.Leaning into DSR, I think, um,
thank you for demystifying that for us,
because I think that's a underutilizedresource. And I know very,
very successful people. A friendof mine who loves it so much,
(24:07):
he's getting his second PhD.
Oh, geez.
Okay. Um,
has registered DSR and was the firstperson who told me about it when I went
back for my master's that said,"hey, I'm a psychotherapist and,
and have you thought about this?"Mm-Hmm. And, um, I think it's an over,
it's overlooked and,
and there shouldn't be any stigmaassociated with your DSR. Yep.
(24:28):
So next question, a studenthas a major life tragedy.
Who should they speak with first aboutacademics and the academic plan? Yeah.
I, you know, I think, um,
talking with your professorsis, is hugely important. Um,
you know,
if there's a life tragedy where I'm goingto miss a significant amount of class,
(24:51):
or I might have to withdraw thatsemester, um, advisors a good start.
Our office works with a lot of that, too.
We'll send notices out to your professorsthat you might be out because of an
injury, a family emergency. Um,
the Dean of Students Office is also areally good resource where they can work
with you on, you know, layingout some options about, you know,
do I need to withdraw thisterm? Can I make it through,
(25:16):
what support systems can we putin place to help you, you know,
manage whatever's going on? Um, soI'd say, you know, your professors,
advisors, our office, dean of students,are all good kind of starting places.
If, if you have a, a, you know,
a life circumstance thatis going to significantly
(25:36):
impact your ability to do wellin the semester you're in.
And what I'm hearing is, is all of thesethings are not coasting and ghosting.
All these things are engaging withsomebody. And so, I mean, you've,
you've given an open invitation. So forthe freshman student who's listening,
or the student who hasn'tused any of these resources,
(25:58):
I think the key to this is to establisha relationship before you need one.
Now there's introverts listeningto this podcast who said, yep,
I'm going to go see Mez as soonas, as there's a need to do that.
I suggest it might be worth connecting.And whatever those resources.
And we all work togetherbehind the scenes.
I'm attached to advising hereat Seidman. So, we see all,
(26:20):
we work together on this, right?
So the professors working together withadvising, working together with SASC,
working together with the Dean of StudentsOffice. So no matter where you go,
you're going to get options and ideas.
Two things I want to make clear.You're still driving the bus, right?
So all these things are laid out.
Nobody's going to tell you you haveto withdraw or you have to do this,
you have to do that. They're goingto say, these are the options.
(26:41):
And then you get to choose.
But it's really hard to choose if youdon't have that connection. Right.
And that's where the mentoring comes in.
So whether that's your student peermentor, your Junior/Senior mentor,
if you're Seidman student inthe program, or, um, our office,
the Mentorship office,whether you call Mez,
where any of these folks to dothat and going to your professor.
I always tell students,as wacky as it may seem,
(27:03):
especially if you're a businessstudent, that first day of class,
you have your business cards that youmade and you bought on Etsy or whatever.
Vista Print for 25 bucks.That say, you know,
I'm Gerry Cook and I'm a managementmajor at Seidmen College of Business,
expected graduation date,XYZ. First day of class,
I go up to the professor and I say, "hey,Professor Messner, nice to meet you.
(27:24):
I'm Gerry. I'm lookingforward to taking your class.
I'm a little concerned about this,that, and the other thing in,
in the curricula, here's mybusiness card." Now, when you go,
you're not an unknown quantityand you've psyched yourself up.
This is not a stranger anymore.
And it makes it easier for thosethings that come down the line.
And they're not always negative, right?So here I get to sit across from you,
(27:47):
you know, 33 years later. And, and,
and have this conversationbe like, "hey, um, I made it.
I'm okay. Yeah. I'm doing good. In fact,
I've come back." And the studentsdon't know how rewarding that is for us
too. Right? To see some of these, folks,especially the ones that struggled.
(28:07):
That make it, um, that'spretty cool. It's rewarding.
Yeah. The, the research out there, andthey use this term strong support person,
but it kind of says like,
students that find a strongsupport person on campus are much
more successful than students who don't.And that strong support, you know,
it doesn't say who that is. Like, strongsupport person means if I needed help,
(28:30):
I feel like I could go to this personand they would support me, listen to me,
believe in me, and get me where Ineed to go. Give me the help I need.
And so that's somethingjust to think about.
And that doesn't have to be the sameperson your whole four years at the
institution too. But, you know, thinkabout that. You know, like each semester,
like if I got stuck with something,is there a professor or an advisor,
(28:51):
a living center director? You know,my Business 101 professor. I mean,
whoever that, if I feelcomfortable going to that person,
it could be LGBT Center,Multicultural Affairs. And, you know,
if I went and talked to Gerryor whoever, he'd help me.
And so it's just important to, tonot be afraid to go when you need it,
(29:11):
but also to, to think about that,
identify somebody you feel comfortablegoing to if you need help with something.
And there's so many, the,
the great thing about Grand Valleyis I keep calling it the big small
university, right? So, um,we, we don't make the top,
you know, five universitiesin the country.
And I don't think that wasthe goal of Bill Seidman.
(29:32):
And the folks when this universitywas invented. Um, but boy,
I have never,
never met a staff or facultyperson who doesn't care. In fact,
um, I know some very talented facultyand staff who probably could go to one of
those big schools and do the big thingfor the big money or the big recognition,
(29:54):
and they stay at Grand Valley. And Idon't know why this is you, you tell me,
you've been around longer than me. What,
what is it about the culture of GrandValley that makes us caring and different?
Yeah. I don't know if I can answer thatforever. I mean, some of the things, um,
that I've, and I, you know, I'veworked at some large, you know,
(30:17):
a large research institution,um, another competitive,
small private school for a littlewhile. And I think they're all good.
It, it also goes backto what your mission is.
And I think one of the things wehave at Grand Valley is our mission,
the core of our mission really is to,to educate undergraduate students.
(30:37):
Like we're not, you know, our faculty,they do research, they do great things,
but that's not the focus.
The focus isn't getting the giant grantand doing the giant research project.
That's, you know, the, there'sresearch institutions that do that,
and there's faculty thatdo great work there,
but that's the faculty and staffhere that, that they haven't chosen,
that they've chosen to behere, work with undergrads, um,
(31:00):
really help folks move forward.And I think it's a, um,
you know, I just think we have acommunity of care, if nothing else.
Like people care about each otherand our students especially being
successful here.
What is one thing you wish studentstoday would do that they don't
(31:22):
do?
Seek out help when youneed it. I mean, there,
there is no weakness ingetting help, and you're not,
sometimes somebody thinks they're theonly one having this issue. You're not,
you know,
and you coming forward maybe helped yourfriend or other folks to get help that
they need. Whether that's academichelp, meeting with a counselor,
(31:44):
talking with somebody about maybe changingmajors if I'm not in there, you know,
whatever that is. Um, I wish studentswould do that. The other thing is, um,
a lot of what we do too is helpingfolks figure out a balance.
So thinking, you know, big picture,like, you know, most folks,
they've got a job. They're taking classes,
(32:07):
they're trying to have some kindof social life. They're, you know,
thinking towards the future,whether that's graduate school, job,
whatever, professionalschool. And it's, it's
It's easy to get out ofbalance and, you know, sleep.
People stop sleeping or really cut sleep.
And so I think it isthinking holistically,
(32:30):
like your academics are hugely important.
They're going to take a bigchunk of your time here,
but how do you fit that in withthe rest of your life and not, um,
you know, not start to cut thingsout that are also important.
So really thinking of balance,
thinking of having a balanced approachas well as seeking out help. Um,
and other folks that'll help supportyou through, because it's hard. I mean,
(32:52):
college is hard for everybody andeverybody's going to run into some bumps.
So knowing that's going to happen,
and then kind of having some strategiesto move through it when it does.
Having those support people to help talkthrough that, what your priorities are.
Couldn't agree morewith what you're saying.
(33:13):
Let's go back to the good olddays for a minute. Let, um,
I see a smile when we talk about that.College sure is different now, isn't it?
Than our time. Yeah. Withoutairing our dirty laundry, which I,
this has been suppressed. So thoseof you go back and look, good luck.
Trying to find our records, becausemost of them aren't there. No. And, um,
(33:35):
the digitization of the Lanthorn um,
makes that tougher to go back and seeanything. Although I don't think you,
nor I appeared in the Lanthornmore than once or twice.
Not a whole lot of times.
During, during our times there. So, um,
give us a flavor of,
of what it was like you've seen GrandValley through the ages and I think some
(33:56):
of this, this historygets a little bit lost,
but the differences betweennow and then, things you,
things you miss or things you don'tmiss. Whatever you want to share.
Yeah. I mean, we've changed a lot,but a lot of things are the same, too.
I mean, still a lot of the samecore values focus. I think, um,
you know, the, so I was afirst-year student in 1990.
(34:21):
We're about twice the size that we wereback then. So we've seen, you know,
a whole lot of, of growth inpeople. Um, I think, you...
You know, we didn't, again, wedidn't have, there's no cell phones,
no social media, none of thatstuff back then. So it, it,
(34:43):
you know, it forced you to spend timewith people, develop relationships,
all those kinds of things,which I think was good.
I think there's still theability to do that now,
but it's also easierfor some folks to, um,
kind of pull back to themselves too.So it's, again, it's figuring out,
still putting yourself outthere, doing some of that. Um,
(35:04):
one of the things that I think wedidn't have as much of back then,
or at least maybe I didn't know about 'em,
was the amount of supportservices we have. I mean, our,
our career center is, you know,has grown when the student body,
we've got some greatpeople in there. I mean,
we didn't have professional advisorsback then. There's professional advisors.
We didn't have successcoaches. Tutoring was like us,
(35:29):
a small little area inthe basement of, um,
I don't know if we stillcall it the Commons, the..
Yeah.
In the commons. And now it's, you know,
we've got drop-in centersall over the place. I mean,
we didn't even have adowntown campus. So I mean,
it was all concentrated inAllendale. So, I mean, I think, um,
(35:50):
you know, nostalgia wise, there'salways some good things. But I mean,
if I look at state of the art resources,
services, um,
access to really great internships,
professional career opportunities. I mean,
I think where we are now is, is great.
(36:11):
I also think, um, the studentbody isn't that different.
I mean, there's been, you know,we're, we're a little more diverse.
But if you look at academic profile,kind of where people came from, it, it's,
the place isn't that different than itwas 30 years ago of, of who's coming in.
Um,
and what folks' goals were coming into earn their degree and kind of make a
(36:34):
better life for themselves. Whateverthat looks like down the road.
I think the cars, thestudents driver are nicer now.
The cars are nicer. Yes.That's for sure. Yeah.
I, you know, I, I, I thinkback for my nostalgia,
I don't think I had one group of, Idon't, I don't think I had any friends,
freshman year who had one carthat didn't have a problem.
(36:54):
Like there always was a door thatdidn't open or don't open that window,
because it's a one way, and we had topile in to go to Jenison Meijer, right?
Because when I go to Allendalenow, it's mind blowing, right?
There were no services inAllendale. Um, back in,
in our time you had to goto Jenison to buy groceries,
you know, whatever, to go to BurgerKing, um, if you wanted off campus food,
(37:18):
all that stuff. So it was mind blowing.So another Copeland guy came to town,
um, who, you know, living on theeast side of the state, and I said,
when's the last time you were at GrandValley? And we had to go somewhere.
I said, let's, let's go to camp. Let,lemme show you what's going on. I mean,
it's just mind blowing. Um,
the amount of change in growthis our little university.
And I love that my degree looksbetter and better all the time. Yep.
(37:40):
As Grand Valley continues to grow.
That I agree.
Yeah. But the, I callit the random encounter.
Everybody listens to the podcastor knows me know that I'm a,
I'm a gamer from way back.Right? Talking tabletop D&D,
not the silliness that in allthis easy way to do it. Right.
I'm talking about the oldhard, the hard way. Right. Um,
we had that random encounter, right?
You're always meeting people kind ofbecause you had to or it wasn't weird
(38:03):
to sit in the Commons, um,
sit at any dining facility next to peopleyou didn't know. It was crowded. Um,
you know, everybody wanted to complainabout the food. That's a popular thing.
Yeah. To, to do at anyuniversity, any, any organization.
That's a popular thing to do,
but you're having these randomencounters with people. Also,
we didn't have the communicationabilities we have now.
(38:24):
So going to the bulletinboard to find a part-time job,
or to find a club, or to start a club.
or whatever it was, therewas an adventure to it.
Akin to when I first traveled abroad.And now with all the technology,
I can still be in my world and actlike I know what I'm doing. Right?
So I can get navigation, I can gettranslation, I can get information.
(38:48):
Back in the old days, you just hadto do it. And it was scary, but man,
did I feel like I leveledup when I did that, right?
Because if I could navigate, you know,Kyoto, Japan, without this stuff,
I certainly can come back.
And then when I had a business tripin the Midwest and you're like, oh,
you gotta go to Minneapolis forthis thing, you're like, whatever.
It's not Japan. I can, I can do this.Right? Everybody speaks the same language.
(39:12):
Um, and I see that asa, a missing component.
And I'm not saying that the students saythey don't know how to do it. I said,
I think they're hungry for it. Yeah.
They're hungry for a little bitof adventure with a safety net.
You still got your phone in yourpocket, but I encourage people to go,
go somewhere that you haven'tbeen before. What's your favorite?
If you just have a halfan hour or an hour to,
(39:35):
to spend on Allendale campus,what's a, what's an unknown?
I don't want you to give away yourgood ones, so people bother you.
But where's your, where's your go-towhere's your hangout spot that's,
that people miss?
I, you know, I, I think we mentioned,you know, in my undergrad's biology,
I'm working in a different field. Um,
I love to walk the ravinesor the arboretum or, um,
(39:59):
just check out the pond. I mean, I, I,that's, that's kind of how I reenergize.
I'm a little bit of anintrovert. I like to take a,
a walk at lunch and Ieither walk, you know,
the edge of the golf course or the ravinesand just kind of get out in nature.
We have, um, we have act. I mean,
not every school has that, you know,and it's just cool to get out and,
(40:22):
and do that. That's whatI really like doing.
I've said it before, um, and Iknow you're a fall person too.
Allendale campus in the fallis almost impossible to beat.
And there's some biguniversities out there.
But even if you go to Ivy League school,it's in a big city. And it feels,
smells like a big city. Allendale.And then if you get, you know,
outside of Allendale, go to RavinesPark, for example. Right there.
(40:46):
It's fantastic. There on the GrandRiver, watch the bald Eagles, whatever.
Um, I've given it away several times.My favorite one is the Seidman House.
Still is a great hangout. Ohyeah. Sunken. Yeah. Quiet, sunken,
seventies living room. Supercool. Um, watch the squirrels.
Check out squirrels of Grand Valley onInstagram. Um, it's a lot of fun. So,
(41:07):
Mike cosmic to see you, thanks forputting up with me, and helping me,
through that transition. Iam definitely one of those,
students who came from a very,very sheltered background. Um,
got plunged in, but I was the last offive, so my parents were exhausted,
so there was no going withme for orientation or move in. I, I did it all solo.
(41:28):
Um, thanks to, I don't know if itwas called transitions then. And,
and thanks for you for shepherdingus, around taking us to convocation.
It strikes me every year I go toconvocation and I try to be the last staff
faculty member in my,
in my wizard robes in and try towhoop up the crowd a little bit,
because I think it's a, it's aculmination start Yeah. Graduation.
That's the time for the solemnoccasion, but, um, convocation is a,
(41:52):
you know, voices together.Let's, let's do this thing,
and I think it's exciting andI, and I see the groups there, ,
sitting with the resident advisors.And it takes me back to when we did it,
you know, All those years ago.
Yeah. Few years ago. Yeah.
Those years ago. So appreciate youand, and thanks, for what you gave,
have given to Grand Valley and forthe students that, that you work with.
(42:13):
And you touched and appreciate you. Yeah.
Well, thanks for invitingme. I, this was a ton of fun.
Yeah. It's good to see you, Mike.Take care. Yep. Yep, you too.
Thank you for sailing along on thisepisode of the Seidman Mentorship Podcast.
For more information On the SeidmanCollege of Business Mentorship Program at
Grand Valley State University, lookus up on your favorite search engine.
(42:34):
If you have a story to tell,know someone we should interview,
have questions or comments,
please email us at smp@gvsu.edu.
Until next time, keep a weather eye onthe horizon and we wish you fair winds,
so long.
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